protection

[daring marlin]

BoM/HoD/HMC/Gemhide

[left hatch]

lol those arn't dps trinkets

those are some of the best trinkets in the game for you

[lusty grotto]

im still using rezan 445 with socket

[north arrow]

o/

[robust galleon]

lol ok welp then im sorry

[north arrow]

435 with the right azerite or 465 with mediocre azerite?

[left hatch]

ilvl

and yah grumpus you'll wanna run some combo of Rezan, Vita, Dragonscale, Butchers Block for almost every key

[north arrow]

Had triple BoM

[left hatch]

when you get into the 20 range psychic shell becomes useful but

doesn't matter, BoM isn't worth 15 ilvls, much less 30

[north arrow]

ty!

[daring marlin]

shrug tankbuster man off like he's nothing

[urban briar]

is advoidance good for warrior?

avoidance

or worth the corruption

[left hatch]

if you're not using corruption budget or dropping ilvl for it sure

lol no

[urban briar]

cheerz for the purge!

[dark marlin]

what do we think?

[warm plinth]

Garbage, cleanse it, but if it's your highest ilevel shield, you'll still use it

[left hatch]

worst corruption in the game, worst shield in the game

but yah even being the worst yo'ull use it cleansed for the ilvl

[dark marlin]

thanks gents

[maiden ravine]

Happy td4 day all

Who's ready for the dps increase while staying under 40 corruption

[deft vortex]

That’s the world shield in the game? Lol I’d love to see the best

[warm plinth]

Yeah the equip effect is garbage and mastery is relatively the worst secondary.

The best would be either 475 ML shield or 475 boe from the raid

[daring marlin]

Hey my pally has that shield

With EV

🤮

[warm plinth]

Lul

My mage got a 430 EV piece from a vision yesterday

Tier 3 even

[sharp night]

by staying under 40 corruption i hope you mean going from 40 to 57 😄

[lusty grotto]

hey guess what

i got the same fucking corruption in pants

on a 5 mask

tier shit EV

at least the pants have better stats

[warm plinth]

I cleansed my mage’s item XD

[sharp lotus]

Of the three azerite armor slots, is there one that is more likely to give you a good piece when rolling with a token purchased with titan residium?

[outer dew]

@warm plinth I'll give you a cleansing

[lusty grotto]

shut up tofu

no cleansings allowed

[nimble mauve]

is racing pulse a good corruption for us? i have a TD2/Exp T2/Surging Vit T3 equipped at the moment. my 475 weapon has T2 Racing Pulse. im using a 465 socketed sword atm instead of my 475 weapon because of corruption budget.

this stuff gives me a headache good lord

[mortal brook]

simmable

[nimble mauve]

for dps purposes, the sim says to purify the sword for a pretty marginal dps increase

i didnt know if there was some merit to racing pulse for defensive purposes

i just dont wanna cleanse something and have everyone go holy shit ur an idiot dude

i feel like surging vit and expedient are much more reliable/useful because expedient is always there and surging vit isnt a 4s proc lol

[left hatch]

its really not worth considering corruption for defensive purposes until you're getting into the 20's

before that its not necessary to live (and even ppl stacking verse meme builds its dubious if they really NEED it on current highest keys being pushed) and you do more for your group by using corruption budget for dps

and 4s proc doesn't matter

its uptime that matters

and it procs way more frequently than surging to make up for it

[neat rapids]

I would assume that depends on the players skill

less experienced players would be better off playing safe on lower keys imo

[nimble mauve]

i dont feel like racing pulse has the greatest uptime. it isnt like honed mind at 50%

[left hatch]

thats the thing, if its lower keys damage isn't scary enough to warrent it

[neat rapids]

prot on a high level demands a lot of experience and skill

[left hatch]

6% verse isn't going to save you from a huge misplay

and procs by their very nature are unreliable so are sketchy for defence

[neat rapids]

well everlasting touch can save you from a huge misplay

[regal star]

what should i use my echoes on? so far i have r3 VoP and C&S

[left hatch]

touch of the everlasting is not something you should ever take

[nimble mauve]

that is true, so i thought the duration of individual procs would be something to take into consideration

[left hatch]

at any level of play

[nimble mauve]

surging vit sits at 20s

[neat rapids]

its still better than to just die

[left hatch]

racing pulse irrc has about a 35% uptime

yo'ure giving up something that actively contributes to your survivability and output

[nimble mauve]

yeah that is what i gathered as well

[left hatch]

on the offchance you might die

thats silly

[final mist]

Taking Everlasting tells that you’re planning on fucking up at some point

[nimble mauve]

vers gives dam too though

[final mist]

It’s useless

[nimble mauve]

so i mean

[final mist]

Just take VoP

[neat rapids]

well dying is sillier

lol

[final mist]

Or you could just

You know

[left hatch]

not die

[final mist]

Not fuck up

👀

[neat rapids]

thats demand a lot

[left hatch]

running it actively puts you into more circumstances you might die

[neat rapids]

[left hatch]

so please please do'nt recommend it to new players lol

[final mist]

Don’t recommend it at all

Ever

[left hatch]

because it advocates a shitty mindset

[final mist]

At any point

In any situation

[left hatch]

and auzara, for rn just sim what setup is best for you

[nimble mauve]

so tldr, just rock racing pulse

[neat rapids]

a shitty mindset like prot paladin having a baseline cheat death?

[left hatch]

the best defensive is making everything else dead

[nimble mauve]

i just didnt wanna purify my 475 wep man

[left hatch]

no a shitty mindset of giving up tools/useful resources because "i guess ill die"

[neat rapids]

I feel like prot pally was made for derping people

like me

[left hatch]

like even DK's don't use their cheat death

(but thats also because its bugged and can kill you after it pops hohumm)

[neat rapids]

mine triggered a lot during lfr

[final mist]

Prot Paladin's baseline cheat death has damage reduction as part of it

[neat rapids]

[final mist]

You don't use it only if you know you're going to ie

If you take Everlasting, you are actively choosing to forgo beneficial majors on the "off chance you might fuck up"

You're literally putting yourself on a stick and hanging yourself over the fire

[left hatch]

not to mention that VoP is arguably the strongest major in the game in the hands of prot compared to anything on any other tank class

[neat rapids]

I don't know whats worse

or people having me tank

people having no tank

[left hatch]

more you tank better you get

(:

[neat rapids]

I always played classes that couldn't tank

ranges

[left hatch]

and its kinda nice to control the flow of the dungeon

[neat rapids]

because everyone was crying for range dps back in the days

yeah Im stuck because I cant decide between paladin and warrior

[left hatch]

tbh unless you're planning on pushing 25+'s it doesn't matter

pick what you have more fun with

[neat rapids]

thats the thing

I enjoy both

[left hatch]

for me thats war cause i hate having a significant amount of my survivability being locked into conscecrate

and wheelchair

[neat rapids]

well I'd either play ret/prot or arms/prot

like both options

[left hatch]

but thats 100% subjective feelers

careful on arms

[neat rapids]

Im the kind of person who can't decide on anything lol

[left hatch]

unless you have a certain threshold of haste (which i think you need all heroic gear or haste corruptions to reach) and a 3 stack of test of might

its dogshit

[neat rapids]

well at least I have lucid dreams unlocked lol

my plan was to get some tank gear

play some tank

[left hatch]

need a ghetti too in either case

[neat rapids]

and get arms gear through tanking mythic+

[left hatch]

lowkey its not that awful pugging as a dps

did it when i swapped to havoc

ppl arn't nearly as toxic either

[main vault]

definately not as toxic for a dps

As long as you dont pull extra

[left hatch]

only really bad experience was a tank rage quit after first pull in motherload

because i forgot meta stunned and stunned the jockey

so he all caps raged that THIS DEMON HUNTER RUINED THE ROUTE SORRY GUYS I CANT DO IT

and left

on the first pull

xD

[warm plinth]

LUL

[main vault]

completely ruined

[warm plinth]

How dare you sir

[neat rapids]

lemme guess, it was a pala tank lol

[left hatch]

warrior actually

[main vault]

Sounds like a warrior reroll fotm

[left hatch]

running str of the warden major

[main vault]

tbh

[left hatch]

lmfao

but yah pug tanking you need thick skin

cause you deal with the absolute worst and dummest of humanity

[final mist]

I treat WoW pugs like I treat LoL ranked

[left hatch]

all directing their stupid at you

[final mist]

I just jump in and mute everyone for my own sanity

[main vault]

I got yelled at for pulling the outside of of TD, when we had a rogue

[left hatch]

and you were tanking...

wat

like you pull the entire outside anyway this season

[regal star]

what would be better to use echoes on lucid, dynamo, aegis, sphere or a corrupt one?

[main vault]

yeah

Definately had the whole group yell at me

[left hatch]

are you more focused on M+ or raid

[main vault]

Cause you can skip to boss

[regal star]

will probably be able to get 2 today

m+

[main vault]

Shared route and everything

tbh, the casual guild Im in atm, one of their tanks is a War

[neat rapids]

I think I'm skilled enough that running arms instead of fury wouldnt hurt me too much

[main vault]

He argued with me that his ranks are out of all tanks, and not just Wars

[left hatch]

VoP>CnS>Lucid>Aegis>Sphere>SoW>Null

in order of how important they are for M+ for anything into the 15-19 range

VoP you can farm easily enough w/o it though

[main vault]

Argument then was "ive been playing ten years I would know"

But he isnt even in here

[left hatch]

rankings as in parses?

wat

[main vault]

yeah

[neat rapids]

I spent a fuck ton of gold on getting myself a warrior/paladin transmog set before actually deciding on the class

[left hatch]

not bad

[main vault]

Was bragging about his 90% on hc hivemind, trying to tell people it was all tanks, I told him no

[neat rapids]

it fits both classes

[regal star]

I have VoP and C&S r3 already toons only about a week old but hoping to be pushing 15s in a few days

[left hatch]

if you need corruption resistance prio getting lucid and Str of Warden

if you don't Lucid and Sphere

VoP major with CnS Lucid and either Sphere or Str is a pretty solid loadout for like 90% of keys

[maiden lake]

hi.. how do i add my spell reflect to details dps meters? is it an addon or a weakaura or plugin?

[main vault]

recode the addon

[warm plinth]

https://wago.io/IwPukH70B/4

[left hatch]

Aegis comes into play on teeming weeks, or if you play around it (like dragging mobs into bosses) because you need to be in combat with 6 targets constantly for it to be worth

[warm plinth]

@maiden lake ^

[regal star]

i have r1 touch of everlasting atm so gives me some resist atm

[left hatch]

Null is good on workshop, but outside of that it doesn't shine until you get close to 20 keys

nope

toss that shit away

its worthless

100% get str of the warden

cause thats a dead slot for you

[regal star]

workshop is the only place i struggled but was with a pretty dodgy healer tbh haha and ok sweet so warden now then get lucid for other slot later?

[left hatch]

yeh

workshop is weird

you treat it like raid

cause its a st boss rush

so ppl will even run CoF major there instead of VoP

[regal star]

yea it really is lol and i was actually thinking about that earlier would be pretty useful

[left hatch]

CoF major with Null, CnS and Str of the warden there is pretty tight

ideally VoP in place of STr but if you need corruption res you do what you gotta

[regal star]

sweet will have to give that a try once i get null and i only have 35 corrupt atm but hoping to pick more up and smash some cloak levels out today

[regal star]

racing pulse is really good aswell isnt it?

also when do i ignore sockets for higher ilvl? 10ilvls?

[left hatch]

depends on the piece

pants are like 5ish

ring is 15

bracers/belt are 10ish

for the most part i just sim and go with whatever gives me more damage

[regal star]

o yea sweet so just kinda treat it like i would for dps

[left hatch]

yah, min maxing a statline for def isn't never going to have a drastic impact on your survival

the vast majority of your survival is gonna come from proper play

and the rest comes from trinkets, traits, and essences

ilvl vs socket defensively is super super negligable

[regal star]

yea i didnt think it really would since its alot about negating the damage and killing it fast lol and yea its basically use shield block when you cant rotate through other cds and keep IP up isnt it?

[hoary root]

mind flays worth for prots?

[left hatch]

twisted appendage is pretty good

not hte best but not awful

uhh no

shield block should have as close to 100% uptime as you can when you're tanking melee hits

IP is just a rage dump its way way way less important than SB

LS isn't so much a cd as it is an extra shieldblock

so you use it to fill in gaps while SB recharges

that mighta been why the workshop was such a struggle for you

trying to keep up IP all the time and only using SB occasionally really fucks your survivability

[regal star]

yea thats what i meant sorry probably worded it bad i meant keep shield block up but if im waiting for a charge use other cds, but yea i use IP so i dont cap on rage

[left hatch]

yeh thats right then

[regal star]

like i basically keep IP up all the time except for if i wont have enough rage to use shield block when it falls off

[left hatch]

the higher you go the less uptime it will ahve

low content it rarely gets chewed through but... higher up not so much

[spice garnet]

anyone 5 mask yet? just unlocked mine. i have two peices of twilight dev so was thinking of runnning anime to make it stronger. or vision major still?

[left hatch]

vision major

is stil the play

the increase of anima to TD is pretty negligable

and at best TD is what 30% of your damage

vs increased uptime on a ~70% damage increase to all your damage

[spice garnet]

yeh true ty

is it worth running a def trinket? been using heroic vita and mythic dragonscale, i sit at 60%+ haste constantly. thought of dropping one for my mythic urchin

just curious what kind of damage increase from 4-5 is

[left hatch]

vita and scale are def trinkets lol

[hoary root]

what is the BIS shoulders from azerite vendor?

[left hatch]

they're some of your bis trinkets for survivability

[regal star]

yea i noticed that lol the only time i really use it for prevention is magic damage, also do i just use rallying when i need a little more hp?

[left hatch]

rally is a raid cd

so things like tantrum in UR

or any heavy partywide damage

tbh for a vision id drop Vita for Cyclotronic

the damage in 5's is very very negligable as long as you're pulling smart

and even running full defensives won't save you from dumb pulls because its the "YOU NEED TO INTERRUPT THIS" crap thatll kill you either way

[regal star]

ahh yep sweet so dont try to use it as a personal aswell lol

[spice garnet]

don't think i ever even got cyclotronic lol

[left hatch]

you buy it from the vendor in Mechagon

its like 1k

[regal star]

do you still need to grind rep for it?

[delicate ruin]

Is Jes Howler any good? I got it from weekly chest

Wanna find some excuse to not scrap it

[main vault]

Can’t give you one sorry

[spice garnet]

whelp i 1 shot the 5 mask with 2 orbs left lol

guess i was worried about nothing

[regal star]

as prot?

[regal star]

force multi is the wep enchant to use isnt it?

[warm plinth]

Yes

[sick sentinel]

So I am wondering if I am doing something wrong. I have been having trouble holding aggro against a pally tank. He has a ton of front loaded dmg, so he can pull aggro off from me. Is this normal?

[warm plinth]

Do you have logs?

[sick sentinel]

Good question. I will do so next time.

[ivory barn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2GHFyRBV7h9qxae5aRf1t9 this sim seems hella low dps 😢

telling me to purify a R2 EV and a R1 Expedient

[inland mesa]

is 475 vita better than 465 rezan?

[mortal brook]

def. like 450 avg haste vs mainstat and like 170ish haste

PLUS group share

[sharp night]

460 vita is better than 465 rezan

[ivory barn]

i feel like Mind Flay's is a bad idea for a fight like Hivemind

[left hatch]

hivemind also isn't a ST fight

so you would'nt go by that sim anyway

[regal star]

would i be worth getting nullification now that i have VoP, C&S, lucid and strength for keys?

[ionic fern]

Jeap.

It's a solid one and good to have .

[regal star]

then ill get sphere and aegis after just so i can do all keys a bit easier then

[hallow phoenix]

yay finally a socketed vita trinket

its similar uptime to rezans right?

[sweet summit]

Yea

[oblique garnet]

@ionic fern I got another td 🙂

[ionic fern]

From chest? 😦

How many TD's you got now?

[oblique garnet]

how many i could run now?

Idk like td 12-13?

[ionic fern]

👀

Meanwhile all i got is TD4

[maiden ravine]

ooo

that's spicy

470 gloves with IS2

TD4 though, woohoo

469 equipped too

Still need to do 2 more 4 mask runs this week

maybe one of them will be TD gloves at a higher ilvl

I might be a couple upgrades away from 1 million hp

[sharp night]

wut

[maiden ravine]

with PW:S

[sharp night]

with full buffs?

i don't even have a mil on a 470 vdh with fort

[maiden ravine]

I'll admit, I'm cheating by using Indomitable cause I haven't had much issues "living"

but yeah, 947k hp right now with just fort

I do use Strength for the corruption resist so that's another 3%

[sharp night]

my dh is at like 980 i think

and vdh has the highest stam pool lol

[blazing cargo]

is this any good on prot warrior?

[maiden ravine]

41.8k stamina with Fort on

[sharp night]

i'm at 43.4k without fort

[maiden ravine]

yeah, I'm just cheating with Indomitable and SotW

do you think with TD we'd use a stamina trinket if there was one in the raid

[sharp night]

no

not unless it provided way more stam than mainstat

same reason nobody uses stam pot/flask

[ionic fern]

@maiden ravine what on earth is that logic? "Using Indom cause i don't have issues living".

[undone sun]

👀

wat

[maiden ravine]

it's a sizable dps boost if you're only doing up to 15s

[undone sun]

in what world

[hallow phoenix]

wouldnt the reduced CDR on last stand lead to more dps

from TD?

if we're going that route

[maiden ravine]

if you get more than 1 TD proc in that 15s window I suppose

[hallow phoenix]

Just proc TD

its simple

[undone sun]

there's a simple solution to see what will win

and i'm fairly confident in what the answer will be

[hallow phoenix]

Never Surrender?

[undone sun]

sim it

ffs

how dare you mention never surrender

[hallow phoenix]

😦

pls no hit

boy this sim sure is taking a while

[maiden ravine]

I'm trying 5 boss patchwerk, 6 minutes, no buffs

probably should've done 7 to get 3 uses and 2 full uses, oops

[hallow phoenix]

but like

your block uptime

[ionic fern]

Or you know, be realistic as in you will not fight enemies in m+ for 6 minutes in a row.

[hallow phoenix]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jAQW3Sek5R56GvK3fDZKuv

omegalul

[undone sun]

[ionic fern]

What a surprise.

[undone sun]

adjust sims to how you'd normally pull

[hallow phoenix]

oh fuck

[undone sun]

🤦‍♂️

[hallow phoenix]

i had it on hectic add

[ionic fern]

Never surrender

Why do you have that even in there.

[undone sun]

curse you

[hallow phoenix]

to spite thyme

[amber siren]

this seems accurate

[undone sun]

i was born in spite

wait

that sounded different in my head

[hallow phoenix]

question is why did it beat indom :^)

[ionic fern]

Question is do i have Last Stand in APL.

[hallow phoenix]

oh shoot

@ionic fern

[maiden ravine]

ah, less than a % difference, basically a rounding error between the two, pity, I like having more hp but yeah block uptime

[hallow phoenix]

Do you have last stand in APL

Wait you'd have to right?

[maiden ravine]

you must or else Indom would be more dps just by having more hp.

[hallow phoenix]

otherwise that talent tree would sim roughly the same, but bolster beat the other two by a fair margin

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qHipbxnLGKz8SK8UDc92oj

Same outcome effectively

[maiden ravine]

same dps in the end, but you give up block uptime, 😦 oh well, back to 864k hp

[hallow phoenix]

Unless the sim is using the saved rage to dump into revenge?

[maiden ravine]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ez1icomJP4AmcqpAuX2isV

[ionic fern]

Unless simc is not increasing your max HP by 10% via Indom since it has not been needed before.

[hallow phoenix]

pls fix

[maiden ravine]

Honestly, I don't know how sims work beyond smarter people than me make them and I follow what they say

[sharp night]

all talents and stuff should be implemented in simc core

[hallow phoenix]

Next you'll tell me Menace isn't in the sim

[undone sun]

Next you'll tell me charge isn't in the sim

[hallow phoenix]

Well intercept is

[maiden ravine]

But before this patch HP never affected dps in a major way

do I do this 14 workshop I have tonight, or just go to sleep and do it tomorrow

[hallow phoenix]

do it tonight with the most meme build possible

[sharp night]

doesn't matter if it affects dps, it still gets implemented same as armor etc

[ionic fern]

In a perfect world sure.

[hallow phoenix]

Punish, dragon roar, indom, menace, vengeance, ravager

or coward

[maiden ravine]

ugh, no, I can't bring myself to ever use ravager or punish

[undone sun]

can we ban tusks

thanks

😄

[barren wagon]

curious question, anyone tried carry 1 guy with protection spec 5 mask on horrific vision? is it easier than dps spec?

[hallow phoenix]

you know thatd be an interesting key thyme

I dont think i would have much issue carrying someone through 5 mask as prot

[sharp night]

i imagine it'd be harder than doing it as dps not easier

because hp scales differently

[maiden ravine]

At least org it should be easy enough to carry

[barren wagon]

tried to carry guildmates with fury last night 5 mask, everything have so much health but still manage to finish it

[sharp night]

put it this way

if you are fury, everything has double the hp when you add 1 carry

if you are prot, everything has 2.5x the hp

[hallow phoenix]

what if the carry is also tank spec

then is it just double

[sharp night]

then it'll be 2x yeah

[maiden ravine]

Like I did my 5 mask tonight and had a full orb and my death left over.

[sharp night]

and if they are a healer

[maiden ravine]

Carry a healer. 😄

[sharp night]

it's like 1.5x

er 1.75x for tank doing carry i guess

1.5x for dps

[maiden ravine]

"you sit in resto spec while daddy gets you 470 gear"

[sharp night]

but if they don't have a heal/tank spec

it's harder to carry as a healer/tank than dps

[hallow phoenix]

you can still do a 5 mask without using any sanity restore orbs

[maiden ravine]

I need to try a vision as a dps spec haha

[hallow phoenix]

just use all 3 to account for the extra difficulty

[maiden ravine]

You can, but I like being safe.

So I orbed before Rexxar and Thrall just to be safer at the start of a pull

[barren wagon]

so better to do carry as i go in with tank spec with my carry being a healer eh?

[sharp night]

dps with healer is easiest

[maiden ravine]

honestly depends on how confident you are in your dps specs

[barren wagon]

ohh okay

[sharp night]

but tank with healer should be good too

[barren wagon]

im confident in doing fury tho its jst the health

lmao

so much mobs health

[sharp night]

yeah if they have a heal spec

ask them to do that

also i'm pretty sure mobs hit harder if there's tank spec in the group

not sure about healers

[maiden ravine]

I got humbled REAL fast doing Stormwind on my holy paladin.

"Oh shoot, things actually do damage"

[solemn kelp]

does Clap hit untargetted exlposives?

[maiden ravine]

no AoE hits explosives

[sharp night]

nothing hits untargeted explosives

[solemn kelp]

*explosives

[sharp night]

you have to target it AND use a single target or "bouncing" ability

[solemn kelp]

alright ty

[sharp night]

for warriors that means only SS/dev/VR

[maiden ravine]

Explosives is worse than teeming in my opinion

[hallow phoenix]

storm bolt

[maiden ravine]

so much wasted dps

[sharp night]

storm bolting an explosive 🤔

[hallow phoenix]

ive had to do it

[sharp night]

it doesn't even kill the explo

lol

[hallow phoenix]

nah some dps left it like 10% hp

better than letting it go off

heroic throw /s

[sick sentinel]

Hallo, is the jes howler trinket any good?

[hallow phoenix]

depends on your other trinkets 🙂

[sharp night]

it better have been all the way across the map and you had no intercept charges left to have storm bolted lol

pretty sure intercept -> deva does more

[hallow phoenix]

yes vince i had no leap/charge

otherwise i wouldnt waste sb on damage..

[sick sentinel]

Only one on 470

😫

[hallow phoenix]

jes isnt a bad trinket per say

but its got a long ass cd

there are many many many 460 trinkets i'd use over it

[maiden ravine]

I need to pug heroic wrathion to coin him haha

[hallow phoenix]

for trinket?

[maiden ravine]

yeah

I got a 475 butcher's block, my other trinket is a 445 Ancient Tuskarr Sea Charm. 😄

so... I might just end up levelling a mechagnome monk just for heritage and I don't have an alliance monk at level cap yet

[tough turret]

https://gyazo.com/8106ad4c43d63e375f5cf7855bb2a51a is this even worth using?

[fallow narwhal]

how good is mindflay on prot warr?

[sweet summit]

Sub-optimal traits but 30 ilvl upgrade

[tough turret]

yup

[sweet summit]

Mindflay is good, doesnt scale into aoe tho

[fallow narwhal]

so its a good St then? 🙂

i dont have alot to change on that shield so

[tough turret]

if it procs

[sweet summit]

Can be, sometimes it just doesnt wanna proc xdd

[fallow narwhal]

ahh okay 😛

ill test it VS the other shield then

[amber siren]

'good' is between 'procs a shit ton and is your top damage' and 'do i have this equipped i havent seen it all fight'?

[maiden ravine]

for prot it's always ilvl except for rings and even then it is likely ilvl I bet

oh, and trinkets of course

[fallow narwhal]

then its an upgrade

475 shield vs a 465

[sweet summit]

Esp ilvl on shield
Das yuge

[tough turret]

@maiden ravine even if u lose bastion?

[maiden ravine]

yep

[distant crystal]

you can drop 30 ilvl for your first deafening crash

[amber siren]

30 ilvls is way too big of a gap for any trait

[distant crystal]

supposedly

otherwise ilvl

[maiden ravine]

30 ilvls on azerite, you use WHATEVER traits are on that sucker

[barren wagon]

do people stack def crash and bastion on m+?

[sweet summit]

Dont stack crash

[distant crystal]

bastion yes

[amber siren]

bastion yes, not stacking crash

[distant crystal]

dc 1 hit wonder

[sweet summit]

Stack bom if possible

[barren wagon]

ahh okay

[ionic fern]

Oh, @maiden ravine just pop Last Stand when you see TD proc and you'll get the extra HP benefit still.

[barren wagon]

what other 2 trait good?

[maiden ravine]

I'm using a chest with Iron Fortress and Brace for Impact cause it's my only 475 chest

[distant crystal]

meticulous, heart of darkness, clockwork heart

[sweet summit]

HoD, CwH, MS, BfI

[distant crystal]

etc

[barren wagon]

ahh okay

[distant crystal]

is the 30 ilvl for first dc even accurate anymore

i feel like that started when there was no limit to the extension

it's still really good but idk about 30 ilvls good :p

[amber siren]

that was at the start when dc could extend forever

not anymore

[sweet summit]

15 ilvls i think?

[amber siren]

yeah 15 sounds right, definitely not 30

[sweet summit]

6 extra seconds of 20% dr is large

[distant crystal]

i think the stam scaling on azerite also got bumped up

since then

[merry cave]

Anyone know if echoing void is worth using over other corruption at all (even if you stack a ton of it)

[left hatch]

depends what other corruption options you have

stacking a ton doesn't change its dps per corruption

[dawn venture]

Dear community,

I am seeking for advices regarding the corruption equipement that I should wear, based on to what I currently have on my protection warrior.

Set 1 - Overall stats: Crit 28%; Haste 28%; Mastery 29%, Versa 5%
Shield-Improvised Riot Shield with Racing Pulse(rank 3)
Ring-Logic Loop of Recursion (465)
Ring-Protecting Bit Band (465)
Legs-Ballast Sinkers(Crit/Haste) with Echoing Void (rank 3)

Set 2 - Overall stats:Crit 21%;Haste 23%; Mastery 30%; Versa 14%; Leech 3%

Shield-Improvised Riot Shield with Racing Pulse(rank 3)
Ring-Seal of the Regal Loa (465+socket)
Ring-Overseer Lost Ring (475) with with Echoing Void (rank 2)
Legs-Ballast Sinkers(Crit/Haste) with Echoing Void (rank 3

If I'll choose Set 2, I will have to remove corruption from the shield (proc of 1275 haste/4 sec).
If I'll go with Set 1, I will lose Echoing Void rank 2 and 10% versatility. Although, the crit will scale to 28%.

Trinkets available:
[Vita-Charged Titanshard] 460
[Rezan's Gleaming Eye] 460
[Gore-Crusted Butcher's Block] 465
[Bloodthirsty Urchin] 445
[Jes' Howler] 455

I am playing mainly M+ dungeons.

Based on your experience and knowledge, what would you recommend?
I aprreciate your feedback.

[keen quarry]

If im looking to use one of the corruption resist essences, which one is better between the two?

as a minor

[dawn venture]

@keen quarry [Strength of the Warden] works better in M+

[keen quarry]

Sweet thanks

Thats what im currently using just wanna be sure lol

[ionic fern]

@dawn venture easiest (and probably not what you want to hear) solution is to sim yourself. That will give you the best setup from DPS PoV.

[misty shoal]

Hello all! Kind of new to prot warrior and I'm just curious how some warriors are doing insane self healing. Like Floorpov in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mlvq7he80M&t=561s this video.

[ionic fern]

Lucid Dreams major.

Also, hello.

[misty shoal]

Based on raider.io during that run he was actually using concentrated flame.

[ionic fern]

Raider.io shows what you logged out with.

Even for runs you've done before.

[misty shoal]

When looking specifically at that run though?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

Anyways, if you need more confirmation - look at the CD of DS on the left side of his party frame.

[misty shoal]

Hmm alright. I've got a bit to figure out myself still. Would love to be good at prot warrior but I feel very squishy compared to my guardian.

[ionic fern]

Look how fast that goes down.

Lucid = more Rage = more IP = insane CD reduction on DS/Avatar etc.

[misty shoal]

Is that the go to essence then for prot warrior now? Or is vision still really good?

[ionic fern]

It's solid for some higher keys (20+)

You can check the 2nd pin in this channel for more in-depth info.

VoP is still really good. 🙂

[final dawn]

how much would a rank 3td on 430 gloves go for?

[ionic fern]

Wdym?

Like gold?

[final dawn]

yeah

[ionic fern]

🤷

Check the AH.

Maybe @oblique garnet knows.

He's busy-busy rich man

[misty shoal]

Are there people in this discord willing to look at character sheets? I'm very interested in seeing what I need to improve with my gear the most and how my stat weights look.

[oblique garnet]

hm?

430 td gloves

[final dawn]

ye

[oblique garnet]

probably like 1m

Prices are coming down with visions giving guaranteed corruptions

[ionic fern]

@misty shoal as long as you'll take the highest ilvl items you'll be fine (some corruptions like TD etc are worth dropping ilvl for from DPS PoV but you can sim yourself). Don't worry too much about stat weights.

[dawn venture]

@dawn venture easiest (and probably not what you want to hear) solution is to sim yourself. That will give you the best setup from DPS PoV.
@ionic fern , thank you.

[final dawn]

thanks late

[misty shoal]

would that be similar for azerite as well? I have a 475 in bags but it doesn't have bastion. I would lose bastion/clockwork for either brace/deafening and blood rite/bloodsport

[ionic fern]

Do you already have 1 DC?

[stark ruin]

Blood rite is the haste proc, right?

[ionic fern]

Yep.

[misty shoal]

I do have 1 dc

[left hatch]

for the most part yes, unless you're losing something bis (which you are) for something completely terrible like Callous/Bloodsport

[stark ruin]

That's actually not a bad trait

[left hatch]

but for you Blood rite and BFI are good choices

so its worth it for ilvl

[stark ruin]

Brace+blood rite is not a bad combo

If the other 2 rinhs are decent, I would probably drop a bastion for ilvl

[misty shoal]

if I already have 1 DC on my helm would you still take that over brace? Or is brace not that good

[stark ruin]

Braci is good

[left hatch]

brace is very good

[stark ruin]

Brace..

[left hatch]

and stacking more DC is a mostly dead meme

[young oasis]

IS rank 3 vs TD rank 3?

[stark ruin]

Fight dependent, but mostly TD

[ionic fern]

TD

[left hatch]

IS only works well on a handful of raid fights and workshop

every other situation TD is much. much better

[sick sentinel]

https://prnt.sc/rmdsfo

new highest was 86%

right before I hit ss it went down to 83%

rip

[ionic fern]

👍

[sick sentinel]

one more % vers corruption then semi perm 40-50% vers dr

🤧

[brittle ledge]

is this even worth anything for us?

[left hatch]

nope

[brittle ledge]

what a letdown 😦

with a socket even

[sick sentinel]

Just cleanse it

🤔

[brittle ledge]

aye, guess i ll cleanse it and use it in m+

thank you

[ionic fern]

@sick sentinel how much vers corruption you got?

[sick sentinel]

2 vers %s

2 vers procs

vers gear

and jes howlers

[ionic fern]

Nice.

[sick sentinel]

I have average of 40% vers

and highend of 80-86%

When I'm stunned like if I get fucked on freehold because I'm retarded

It goes to about equal to 160% vers

so 80% dr

if I"m using cns major

Vers gear is bless in JY

[ionic fern]

Wish i had any vers corruption.

[sick sentinel]

Not really ness unless you're doing like 23s/24s and need defensive stuff

[ionic fern]

It's more for playing around with.

[sick sentinel]

What's balls is

Literally impossible for force multiplier to choose vers

even with this much vers

even during the 7k vers

I didn't get a vers proc

Just mastery and haste

[ionic fern]

Jep, can't get Vers.

[strong forum]

Just run vers nav

Tbh lad

But no point for me to do that as of yet cuz shit don't hurt in 21s

[sick sentinel]

Oh ye

Vers navi

probably the play

[strong forum]

I have full crit haste gear...

Like 300 vers

[ionic fern]

I think i got..10% vers base from current gear. 🤔

[strong forum]

4% chad here ama

8% with cns :kekw:

[sick sentinel]

I have 14% base

nvm 17%

126 extra vers from vers navi

🤧

[exotic rapids]

DOes an

ups

[sick sentinel]

I need one more vers %

then I can run pure vers build at max capacity

it'll be exactly 37 corruption

[exotic rapids]

Does anybody know if you can loot more pages from Visions then are needed for the quest you are on ? I ask because of twinks

[sick sentinel]

yes depending on the quest

well you can't actually loot loot them

but it does show up

[ionic fern]

^

[exotic rapids]

But they get lost basically?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[exotic rapids]

thanks

[sick sentinel]

got up to 90% vers

I need one more vers % :(

[ionic fern]

Do them 5 mask runs and hope for the best.

Or just snipe AH.

[sick sentinel]

Can't do ah

the ones I have already

are from rings, hands

[ionic fern]

Ah.

[exotic rapids]

Sim tells me to drop my trousers mit rank 3 versa % for rank 3 masterful %

hmmm

that drops me from 14% to like 7 :x

[sick sentinel]

HAHAHAA

99%

that's the max I can go

Lucid proc, cns major, jes howler, vers navi full proc, corruption vers proc, aegis 10 stack, vers %s

goes to 99%

So close

[ionic fern]

😂

[sick sentinel]

Oh ye

I didn't eat vers food

so ye I would of had 50% dr

and 100% more damage

[brittle owl]

99% is vers cap doe

been tested in legion

[sick sentinel]

oh really

[brittle owl]

wait no mb

99% dr is the cap

[sick sentinel]

I was like

w0t

[strong forum]

See still plenty way to go

[brittle owl]

so like 198% vers

[sick sentinel]

Ye that's impossible

[strong forum]

Just get it 4head

15k vers

[brittle owl]

that's uneeded*

[sick sentinel]

I'm probably the highest vers % in the game

xd

and it's highly unneeded anyway

[brittle owl]

stacking vers is already giga enough

the great tank equalizer

[strong forum]

Meanwhile claps in slow motion

[brittle owl]

just run around with perma externals

[sick sentinel]

I still have 1.7k haste

?

and 1.2k crit

[brittle owl]

what, who cares about clapping slow

[strong forum]

How does that make sense

[brittle owl]

when mobs actually heal you

[sick sentinel]

ye leech %

100% more leech gain

[strong forum]

I'm literally full haste crit gear in every slot. 1.4k crit and 2.5k haste and 6 sockets

[brittle owl]

i mean

i'd try to stockpile any vers item id get

[sick sentinel]

1.7k haste is still a decent maount

amount*

[strong forum]

Ye but how do you have 1.7k haste and 1.2k crit if you're full vers gear

[sick sentinel]

1.7k haste, 1.2k crit

and 1.5k vers

[brittle owl]

haste vers+crit vers stuff

[sick sentinel]

they are all haste crit

haste vers

and crit vers

besides 1 piecce

which is haste mastery

[brittle owl]

🤮

[sick sentinel]

but that haste mastery has my 12% vers gain

[maiden ravine]

I actually like sub rogue, what is wrong with me haha

[strong forum]

It's only semi viable in pvp

[sick sentinel]

when I got to 100% vers

I had 8.2k vers

das a lot of vers

The max I can go is another 9% vers gain

so that's 8.2k x 1.09 more

[brittle owl]

this is on live yeah?

[sick sentinel]

that's 8,939 vers

[brittle owl]

not tourney realm

[sick sentinel]

yes this is live

[brittle owl]

noice

also fuck you

[sick sentinel]

If I get one more 9% vers which is my max to stay under 40 corruption

[brittle owl]

😢

[sick sentinel]

9k vers rounded up

[brittle owl]

i mean

do you really care about tfb ?

[sick sentinel]

Well if it's a full defensive build

yes

xd

[brittle owl]

with perma bark that can proc into a shieldwall?

do you reaaaaaally care

[ionic fern]

[sick sentinel]

so ye that 9% vers

increase

is just another 9% more vers average

just calculated it

so higher uptime on bigger vers

but still would be poppin

[strong forum]

I wonder if it's worth running different healers

[exotic rapids]

perma bark that can proc into a shield wall?

[sick sentinel]

You'd want hpal

perm

[strong forum]

With max vers

[sick sentinel]

because your damage without td

[strong forum]

Mh

[sick sentinel]

would be rip

hpals wouldn't need to heal

formless major

pure dps

make up for your loss

[strong forum]

I mean you still pump 60k+ without TD

[sick sentinel]

just put glimmer on you

wings

gg

I know

but like

[strong forum]

And with those vers you'll still prolly hit 80k+

[sick sentinel]

TD still does like 23/32% average more damage

[maiden ravine]

I'm gonna stay sub rogue even if sub par cause he's a void elf and I wanna be a shadowblade haha

[strong forum]

I wish my TD did more than 15%

But it never does

[brittle owl]

am curious

[sick sentinel]

mine is 23-32%

but never ever close to TC

[brittle owl]

what would a full group with giga vers

be able to achieve

like every single one

[strong forum]

The biggest TD dungeon I had was 12k dps

No idea about % cuz that shits irrelevant

[brittle owl]

dps loss would be quite big but youd be able to do super dangerous pulls relatively easily

[sick sentinel]

I mean

those pulls still usually damage your group

just because you're tanking doesn't mean they ar

e

[brittle owl]

yes, that's why i said full group with vers corruption

[sick sentinel]

weird sim margins but ye. 5 minutes 6 targets is 142k in pure vers gear

let me try td uild

build

rank 4td, under 40 corruption

same as vers build

sims 189k overall

[vestal palm]

which essences should i use for a 5 masks solr run in og?

[sick sentinel]

now the question is would that extra vers gain from running cns major be worth from vision or lucid major

🤔

[maiden ravine]

I just use my m+ essences

[sick sentinel]

literally not what we are talking about

[maiden ravine]

I'm responding to the person asking what to use in visions

[sick sentinel]

oh tag him next time

[maiden ravine]

I don't know if CoF is enough to give up VoP major

[ionic fern]

CoF + Cyclo + TD.

🤷

[sick sentinel]

CoF is def teh best

Cyclo and Fang if you have

Stack td stuff

[maiden ravine]

I'll have to try CoF though you can totally 5 mask without it haha

[sick sentinel]

5mask is all about killing bosses the fastest

visions isn't going to help you burst something down

[ionic fern]

AoE DPS isn't a issue anyways so no point taking VoP.

[sick sentinel]

and survivability doesn't matter

[vestal palm]

what is cyclo?

[maiden ravine]

Mechagon punch card with cyclotronic blast socketed

A trinket

[vestal palm]

ah, makes sense

[maiden ravine]

Takes revered I think with rustbolt

[vestal palm]

so CoS major and what minor essences?

[amber siren]

CoS?

[sweet summit]

CoF

[strong forum]

Cooof

I'm cooofing

[sweet summit]

Dont cooof on my you sick fuck 👀

[marble cipher]

Is Meticulous Scheming better than Clockwork Heart?
For M+
Can buy a chestpiece and wondering if I should buy Ashvane Warden's Cuirass or the mechagon one, Mechanized Plate Chasse

[strong forum]

Clockheart will provide better stats for m+ blasting

And it's not rng

It's literally every 1min as soon as you are in combat

[marble cipher]

so mecha chest is slightly better then, rest of the traits are the same

[strong forum]

I would very much say so yes

[stone lodge]

should i a) stack a second trait on overwhelming power or b) stack a second trait on unstable power or c) get strength in numbers ?

[marble cipher]

thanks

[strong forum]

Never pick strength in numbers

[brittle owl]

it's a SiN

[strong forum]

Aaand whatever you prefer with OP and UF

They are both bis

[sweet summit]

Good one maelkenar

[brittle owl]

😎 👉👉

[neon torrent]

what essence setup is optimal for m+ in the range from 10-15

[brittle owl]

VoP major CnS minor Null minor Aegis minor Sphere minor

sotw minor if you need the resist and don't have a CoF in your group

formless minor if you do have CoF in your group

CnS is the only real locked in choice in terms of minors, rest you can mix and match to your preference/needs

[sweet summit]

You think null is worth in m+?

[neat rapids]

isnt that the one that absorbs magic damage?

prot warriors have basically no other defensive against magic, so I'd say yes

[brittle owl]

no

that is looking at it wrong

[sweet summit]

Demo shout, ignore pain, spell reflect, shield wall, interrupts, stuns

Etc

[brittle owl]

only r3 is worth

because of the damage

you can proc null in 99% of packs

[neat rapids]

spell reflect doesnt do shit against group wide boss abilities

[sweet summit]

Nulls damage is fixed tho, doesnt gain anything in aoe

[brittle owl]

it's a comfy passive dmg increase

[stark ruin]

it still reduces your magic damage taken

[brittle owl]

yeah agree 100%

[sweet summit]

So wouldnt you gain more damage from say sphere?

[brittle owl]

the dmg reduction is irelevant

[stark ruin]

spell reflect, that is

[brittle owl]

from null i mean

the absorb is largely whatever

it only comes in play in higher keys as a safety pad against things that would otherwise one shot you if you fail to stop them

[stark ruin]

yes, I responded to @neat rapids , that for group-wide boss abilities, SR is still a damage reduction

[brittle owl]

and yeah, SR is a p decent and available cooldown vs magic damage

[stark ruin]

even if there's nothing to actually reflect

[brittle owl]

people overstate horribly how weak prot warr is vs magic damage

then again, people overstate magic damage in general

[stark ruin]

well, fortified Zul is an extreme case, but with veng DH I laugh at it while with warrior it's the most intense time in the dungeon

[brittle owl]

honestly for KR

on high keys the strat would def be run out, havoc swaps to veng, prot swaps to arms or fury

the time you lose running and swapping is made up for in consistency and uptime on zul for not having to kite him

[neat rapids]

so from what I've heard so for in mythic+ you want to find the sweet spot between damage and survivability, and that applies to all tanks

is that correct?

[brittle owl]

well yeah

but your survivability is dictated

[sweet summit]

Survivability comes from good play

[stone lodge]

bulwark of masses any good ?

[brittle owl]

90% by play

[sweet summit]

Its ait, bugged af tho

[neat rapids]

pally for example sacrifices survivability for the seraphim talent, warrior takes vision of perfection

[brittle owl]

whereas damage is more skewed by gear

pally sacrifices very little with seraphim though

warrior takes vision of perfection for damage

[neat rapids]

Im pretty sure they take seraphim for extra damage. was looking for the highest rated pala tank eu and he uses seraphim

on itemlevel 476

[brittle owl]

well yes

but the loss in survivability isn't as big as you'd think

and lucid major makes up for the lost SotR

also, be wary of looking at raider.io

it is very deceptive

[neat rapids]

I was looking at wowprogress lol

[brittle owl]

since it shows you what gear/setup you logged off in, not what you ran in the key

i actually dk how reliable wowprog is as well

logs are the safest bet

imo

[neat rapids]

the pala has 36% haste lmao

[dark lark]

Is it felinator?

[neat rapids]

Eksree

[brittle owl]

yeah he has giga haste

though, tbh, for all tanks, the go to would be vers cheesing anyway

it's just very rare to get it

[sick sentinel]

Zul is honestly fine

[brittle owl]

well

[sick sentinel]

Even with my td build, no td

Err no vers

[brittle owl]

you're also one of the rare vers cheesers 😂

[sick sentinel]

No

[dark lark]

Andybrew is spamming vers amps

[sick sentinel]

Even with my td build with low vers

[dark lark]

It's actually insane how lucky his corruptions are

[sick sentinel]

Its fime

Fine

[neat rapids]

they play literally all day lol

lvl 85 heart

[brittle owl]

lvl 85 heart isn't that big of a deal

[sick sentinel]

You literally do nothing for 25 seconds so the hpal can spend his wings without overlapping

He'll sac u right agter

After

Thats when you pop most of your stuff

I usually just run lucid

[tepid niche]

would you use 475 Jes' Howler or 460 Sigil/Vita?

[sick sentinel]

And ill leech myself for 40 seconds

And the healer does before i do usually lmao

Fies

Dies

It goes hpal wings , with spell reflect and demo on pull

then it goes sac after wings goes away

25 seconds

so you should have your second spell reflect then

use that with demo again, -> avatar lucid and then just survive

literally so easy

[dark lark]

What's your highest fortified KR?

[sick sentinel]

22

[dark lark]

Just out of curiosity

[ionic fern]

Anything is easy if you have adequate people around you.

[sick sentinel]

I didn't time it but zul wasn't the issue

at all

My healer died from grevious before I even dropped below 80%

that was last week

[ionic fern]

It's iffy still for most people.

I did it on a +19 in a pug and it was a nightmare of CD rotations.

[sick sentinel]

If it's an hpal, you should probably never die as long as you know hpals literally have to wings at pull

[ionic fern]

If it's an hpal that knows what he's doing and can expect the damage intake*

There's so many dumb people out there.

• most pug healers are Resto druids.

[sick sentinel]

I don't know, it should still be fine even without him getting full value out of wings

restro druids are a different story

[ionic fern]

Honestly, i want a rshaman to heal me.

Since i've only had one or two ever heal me.

But they were like +15 keys so wouldn't matter anyways.

[tiny drift]

how much haste do you go before prioritizing another stat? I'm at 31.5 % haste atm (without itf). Talking about raid progress

[sick sentinel]

full haste

[tiny drift]

No cap for haste?

[sick sentinel]

never

[tiny drift]

How about m+, i've seen ppl talking about 22% haste cap and then focus crit?

[sick sentinel]

no

ilvl is best

and you just stack both crit and haste

[hallow phoenix]

Where the heck does 22% come from

[brittle owl]

there's no cap

for any secondary

that is achievable

👏

either soft or hard

👏

[hallow phoenix]

I'll be mastery capped by end of xpac

You watch

[brittle owl]

x doubt

[hallow phoenix]

250% here I come

Rotating avatar with last stand so I never have to press shield block

[ionic fern]

The 22% comes from some of the streamers afaik.

[hallow phoenix]

Do they not have haste procs

Seems moot to go for some haste value when most people have mongo haste procs from corruption and azerite

Trinkets

[strong forum]

22% comes from streamers indeed

Like rads and naowh

[hallow phoenix]

I'm guessing 22% is when you can 3x shield block with 5 stack ItF?

[strong forum]

Without*

[hallow phoenix]

Then what's the point lol

[strong forum]

With 22% you're guaranteed to chain 3x SB

At all times

That's the only thing about it

[hallow phoenix]

Why don't we have a shield block emote

[strong forum]

Cuz we aren't important enough compared the loud dumbasses at the dps department

:hihi:

[ionic fern]

Prot is polite af.
I'm proud of you guys.

[strong forum]

Facts

[hallow phoenix]

I enjoy the arms channel too

So is it just the fury boys?

[brittle owl]