on the stairs
#protection
nimble brook
got it
grizzled glen
Is there more than one safe spot? Or is it just that grid on the left just right above the stairs?
nimble brook
I just know of those two
left hatch
Theres 3 or 4 excluding the stairs
From the stairs looking in theres one right of the left close grid, one a bit in front of the stairs, one to the left of the right close grid, and one to the far right of the room against the wall
Plus stairs
drifting lotus
what is the uptime on vita? how much better is that then rezan?
mortal brook
they are both 1ppm, the uptime should be comparable. vita has much more budget than rezan however
stoic forge
is vulpera racial worth switching ? undead atm
mortal brook
it has its benefits, same any any other race. its not fantastically better
stoic forge
i saw some m+ logs
about 10% of total healing
mortal brook
depends on content. on weeks like explosive, itll be more.
I wouldnt judge any warr by their hps meter tbh. not how the spec works
slim pier
guys
mortal brook
box
slim pier
do you get the full value from 3x BoM from vision proc?
terse oasis
HMT is best race, you get moose horns.
stoic forge
too ugly
terse oasis
moose horns.
slim pier
Do you?
terse oasis
your argument is invalid
mortal brook
DID is the best cuz the booty
terse oasis
box > you do not get full value iirc
slim pier
hmm
terse oasis
i could be mistaken but i recall regular avatar giving me about 50% more mastery, and VoP procs giving 35% or os
slim pier
how come BM hutners get the full value from 3x PI?
from vision proc
balance reasons?
terse oasis
dunno
mortal brook
tankadins get full mastery from AM iirc
lost quest
I just tested base avatar gave me 80% VoP it's self gave be 53%
so no we don't get it in full
strong forum
well yes Rk thats been public knowledge
from a vision proc you only get part of bom value
if vop extends avatar however you get full value
ancient ore
is naga hide enchant good for defencive or no
wheat talon
is it worth trying to set up some sort of macro to say "spell reflecting, don't interrupt" for pugs?
sweet summit
Sometimes they listen
strong forum
its good even for premade groups
cuz 9/10 theyre too retarded to understand its value
tame garden
sweet summit
I always say like: "700k spell reflect, feels good" to make my guys understand how ungodly broken sr is
strong forum
my group is toxic as shit
i scream i reflect like 17 times
they still interrupt
cuz its "funny"
sweet summit
"If you kick when i say sr i kick u from the group"
sweet summit
strong forum
yup
tame garden
@sweet summit
I do that lmao
If they kick my reflect I kick from group
Then reinvite before they get booted out of instance
sweet summit
Lmao
sweet summit
terse oasis
i need to remember to setup a 'spell reflect' yell macro
terse oasis
yasssss. spam it 😛
strong forum
NI- IM SPELLREFLECTING
terse oasis
is there a weak aura already, or do i need to make one? i'm lazy.
strong forum
theres prolly like 300 out there
sweet summit
There are on wago
terse oasis
to much work, macro it is. much yelling spam
sweet summit
terse oasis
just wondering if there was an 'approved one' or just grab one at rando
prisma crane
my problem is that
some casts you want to reflect are long ones
and i wont hit SR until near the end
which means someone just interrupts real quick
or rather
they always interrupt fast, i think im safe
then when SR is up, they put in a fast interrupt
so annoying
sweet summit
Playing with pugs i always use SR towards the end of a cast, and pray
I also sometimes write "sr" quickly between casts
Some understand it
Some dont care
austere storm
Do you have a link to the details mod that tracks sr damage?
And perhaps a list of which casts are particularly juicy to reflect? I just picked up warrior last week
wheat talon
it's a weakaura
terse oasis
best reflects i know of, are the cyclone strike in temple, the 3rd boss in shrine's bolts, and the wasting strike in wcm
wheat talon
austere storm
You can reflect the cyclone strike?! Holy shit!
sweet summit
Ye as long as its not targeting you
sweet summit
Be careful for jolt casts
wheat talon
don't forget the consuming slime from the toxic monstrosities in junkyard
sweet summit
Hidden gem
terse oasis
also the spider boss
wheat talon
make sure you cast it early because consuming slime has the same cooldown as spell reflect
wheat talon
in AD?
austere storm
So hit sr and then just stand in consuming slime?
terse oasis
nah, the pilar ones
sweet summit
Yds locky
terse oasis
voidweaver what ever
sweet summit
Yes*
wheat talon
yeah, hit SR before the consuming slime ticks the first time, and you're safe
you have to run out on the second cast if you don't do it early
austere storm
How does sr work for thing from beyond damage? Does it reflect the damage to the thing, instantly killing it or can I somehow reflect that damage to my current target?
tame garden
Lol
terse oasis
sr doesn't work on thing from beyond iirc
tame garden
It just kills the image
terse oasis
it does? oh
wheat talon
SR totally works on thing from beyond
terse oasis
i could have sworn i tried it once and got hit, but maybe someone else ate the sr
terse oasis
fair enough, i was wrong
tame garden
wheat talon
also I've only tried the consuming slime on m0 solo to test it, but even at m0 it did ~250k per cast
sweet summit
Dont greenbear him speg 
tame garden
I am bear
strong forum
i dont understand why its called greenbear
terse oasis
i also play bear
tame garden
Me neither nome
and why is this dark technology
tame garden
@ionic fern
terse oasis
am slowly getting all the tanks up to 2k io.. but it's a lot of extra time to farm all the essence/cape/ect
sweet summit
I rly wanna get 3k this season but i suck @tame garden help
ionic fern
Yes?
wheat talon
I would really like to take this long break between expansions to experiment with all the tanks and see if there's one that I haven't played that I enjoy playing more, but getting essences 4 more times sounds awful
sweet summit
:mwahi:
left hatch
also experienting now to see what you like is kinda a waste
cause xpansions often completely change teh playstyle of a tank
new abilities, talents, losing essences and traits, even just rebalancing can completely alter how a class is played
left hatch
so your best bet is to dick around when its closer to shadowlands
or better yet pray for a beta key and try them out yourself
sweet summit
Thank you, i will remember this advice
tame garden
Oh and most importantly
terse oasis
yeah, we just have so much time before SL
it makes sense for me at least, to start getting the other tanks 'ready'
so what ever i pick is decently geared going into leveling, and i'm not in a rush
left hatch
oh i was commenting on Katasi figuring out which one he 'likes'
terse oasis
oh yeah
left hatch
cause everything is bound to change the second prepatch hits
for instance i fucking loved Bear in legion
but losing LnC, Double thrash and RotS ruined the spec for me
terse oasis
for sure, enhancement shaman tank is gonna be meta shadowlands
wheat talon
I mean, I'm assuming we'd have enough information about what's happening for me to take that into account
left hatch
uhhhh we know nothing
wheat talon
future tense
terse oasis
okay john snow
sweet summit
@tame garden dont do me like this
Dont leave me hanging
left hatch
like literally nothing about what SL is changing
wheat talon
I will rephrase: "I'm assuming that we will have enough information to take into account what the changes will be long before shadowlands hits"
left hatch
imo best bet is to just level during the break
thats bold
things often change last minute
Beta for Azeroth after all
wheat talon
as I typed that out it felt dumber
left hatch
not dumb just optimistic
wheat talon
yeah fair
left hatch
imo level during the break
have fun with it
so you have 1 of each at 120 (or 60) for when changes do happen
so you have options and arn't left wondering
left hatch
^ ty
terse oasis
i recently got my last class up to 120.. but i hate playing hunter so it will likely never be a main
wheat talon
yeah, fair, I don't need to take all my alts into mythics
terse oasis
all the tanks but DH are fun, DH feels.. off, to much like dpsing imo
strong forum
thats what i love about DH
left hatch
i recently traitored to horde so i have 4 classes to level from scratch
strong forum
a DPS thats tanky af
wheat talon
DH was my first tank, I loved it until spirit bomb stopped being the go-to
strong forum
i mean it still is
fringe marten
Is there a way to save an overall log for a M+ from details? so you can post it at any given time?
strong forum
Glut is only for high m+
left hatch
tbh the meta build with FTD and glut is kinda zzz
terse oasis
glut is a lot 'safer' to play imo
terse oasis
but boring
wheat talon
I stopped playing because I couldn't push any higher without switching to glut
terse oasis
and you need some TD to really pump
prisma oracle
strong forum
yikes
prisma oracle
which one would you run
strong forum
the haste one
terse oasis
verse ring
strong forum
the avoidance shit is absolutely pepega
fringe marten
Yeah versa of course; do you know what Avoidance actually is?
left hatch
theres nothing good about that first ring haha
strong forum
Avoidance is AoE dmg
wheat talon
surging vitality is really good
terse oasis
yeah
prisma oracle
oh rip, thanks 🙂
wheat talon
yeah avoidance is aoe only
ionic fern
I honestly don't know about the greenbear. @tame garden
warm plinth
It’s reduced damage on anything that can hit multiple targets.
terse oasis
so it works on like.. the knockup in TD
warm plinth
Right
terse oasis
but 90% of the time, it's not doing much, if anything
warm plinth
Even if it only hits you, it would still reduce it
terse oasis
verse always works, and lets you clap harder
strong forum
and its a haste ring
strong forum
with, ykno haste
terse oasis
that too
fringe marten
It's not 'crap' but it's a stat you realistically will never be able to get enough of to MAKE it good. If you could get like ...? 50/60% avoidance you could literally stand in almost all the raid AoE's and have 100% uptime; but it won't happen.
left hatch
avoidance has a cap
strong forum
50/60% avoidance is not possible, it caps at 20
warm plinth
Yeah. Avoidance was pretty big in Legion because there were tons of really hard hitting things that it reduced. There aren’t many in BFA.
fringe marten
Well then~ even worse.
terse oasis
i mean, as a balance druid with switch hitter, i can get avoid up to like 30% or so i think
but it's not worth the effort
warm plinth
You can’t
fringe marten
Avoidance was great on the? final boss of legion...it reduced his big tank buster hit.
left hatch
in raid the only even slightly yikes things itll reduce is... ilgy beam and wrathion/vex breath? but even that is easily managable with smart CD usage
and in M+ it has less use
fringe marten
Well then: if avoidance caps at 20 it's a trash stat to actively get; if you happen to get FREE avoidance as a tertiary on some gear..nice.
left hatch
exactly like another tertiary that shall not be named 😄
terse oasis
oh your right, i guess i just go over cap
warm plinth
Right it’s similar to leech. Nothing you shoot for but it’s a perk if you happen to roll it on gear you’d use anyway
fringe marten
Yeah; not all abilities that hit an area..are classified as AoE's it reduces..so as everyone has been saying; jank stat~
FK you morrison...I ❤️ Speed~
left hatch
hey be nice to speed
fringe marten
I'm serious..I LOVE speed.
terse oasis
speed set best set
fringe marten
...remember../cry..remember hot swapping gear in legion dungeons..and equipping your triple leap shoulders and 25% run speed boots...
terse oasis
(as a dk anyways, it's why i play goblin, for the rocket jump)
fringe marten
ZEA ^^^^
left hatch
i really wish they brought back gear swapping in dungeons
prisma oracle
What haste you guys running at, in % with no stacks
left hatch
as much as possible %
fringe marten
FK the gear swaps just give me my speed boots and triple jump shoulders back!!!
prisma oracle
I know man, just wondering where you guys laying 🙂
warm plinth
@left hatch I actually use a mastery proc corruption on my DH lol. 915 mastery for 10 seconds. Basically a 23% increase except for Blade dance and autos for 10 sec.
fringe marten
Forget the stupid healing bracers and the gloves/etc... the triple jump and speed boots made stuff FUN.
warm plinth
Only because it’s what fits into my budget though
warm plinth
Not because I went for it or anything
hoary root
How do you guys manage ra-den dots
fringe marten
..or how about when we had the talent to make taunt make mobs move faster to us? I remember using that on one raid boss and I don't remember who or why?
warm plinth
RIP budget provoke
fringe marten
After you? berserked? if you taunted while berserk was up it would make mob run 20% faster?
inland silo
youd use it on avatar to make him get out of the lava faster
warm plinth
Yeah I think it was part of warlords challenge
fringe marten
I used it on a couple fights...it fealt like my choies mattered DAMNIT
left hatch
@prisma oracle without into the fray or anything else im at 22.5%
warm plinth
It was a nice talent
fringe marten
oh yeah and monks still have that..for free ya' know..'cause WHY?
hoary root
So let it strike us from 100% hp and then we cast defensive. Roger.
prisma oracle
@prisma oracle without into the fray or anything else im at 22.5%
@left hatch Oh, im at 31% unbuffed
fringe marten
Miss clash...how about SKULL BANNER? Mocking banner!!! How about ..Gladiator tanking!!!
left hatch
jealous, have a lot of non haste pieces
edgy bone
Hey guys
warm plinth
We get challenging shout back in SL
edgy bone
I was watching this Rads guy do +24s on his warrior
warm plinth
That’s something. Banners would be cool though
edgy bone
and he's healing like 31k HPS, how is that possible?
strong forum
ohno
prisma oracle
I just got 9% haste rating increased boots, gave me 4%
sweet summit
Dont blindly copy rads
strong forum
he takes alot of dmg
left hatch
check pins
fringe marten
Yeah ghash I saw that; but honestly unless some stuff REQUIRES it, Tclap just does that already..just DAMAGE does that now.
strong forum
thus IP gets eaten through faster
warm plinth
It’s 9% more rating from all sources @prisma oracle not 9% more haste
strong forum
thus it comes to higher "hps"
left hatch
everything you need to know is answered BY RADS in that google doc
fringe marten
TIcon he's likely using that major..the..one that looks like a whirldwind?
prisma oracle
I wrote 9% more haste rating, which it does give 😐
fringe marten
Memory lucid~
strong forum
i hit 25k hps
fringe marten
A lot of warriors run memory lucid in very high keys.
strong forum
without any leech stuff or defensive trinkets
prisma oracle
It’s 9% more rating from all sources @prisma oracle not 9% more haste
@warm plinth read again :p
strong forum
its literally just IP getting eaten fast
left hatch
full value on absorbs as well
fringe marten
I tried that healing build in some..teens like 16/17 all you do is lose dps for no reason; they NEED it because those keys truck you. And eventually they will just hit a wall that only a monk can go beyond anyway~
left hatch
so RP / null in dungeons he runs it etc
strong forum
i hate how people focus on HPS
left hatch
will have full value in very high keys
yah its a bad fucking metric. ltierally turn off HPS meters
strong forum
HPS is a dead metric
fringe marten
Nom yeah, if you're tanking packs and just playing warrior right you're going to be dumping a ton of rage into IP and gets dinked insta, so you just have lots of free 'healing'
^^^
left hatch
were not BDK. hps matters zero for us
left hatch
and looking at it advocates really bad play
strong forum
literally a dead metric
left hatch
like running bloodsport... or spamming extra IP's cause "MAH HPS THO"
fringe marten
I've been in heroic pugs with healers trying to 'parse' so they're begging people to let them solo heal and want tanks to get low and people to stand in fire. WHY? who CARES about HPS parsing? Healing is like tanking..it's not about just 'maximum throughput' you have to do the right stuff at the right times. (sometimes it's max throughput LOL)
wheat talon
maybe trying to apply to some shitty guild?
fringe marten
DPS honestly same thing; how to maximize burst windows and uptime, doing the right stuff at the RIGHT time, of course pushing the buttons fast is what we all gotta' do~
Legit as a serious raid lead would I even LOOK at HPS parses if a healer app'd? You'd see if they have good experience, and then let 'em try and see if they can do mechanics.
strong forum
no
fringe marten
Then what do ya' do?
strong forum
looking at HPS doesnt reflect any skill
terse oasis
like if you're an hpal pushing 30k hps max
left hatch
hps can matter with context for healing
sweet summit
A good "RL" looks at progress logs and sees if said person dies a lot and shit. Uses CDs hppots Healthstones etc
left hatch
like if someone is outputting 1/2 of what your other healers are you can use it to see a problem
and tell them to get gud
terse oasis
but if you're pushing decent healing, and people aren't dying, it's fine
fringe marten
Rosjen..that's what I mean by "see if they have good experience" IE what they've cleared, how they do...etc. as in..deaths/mechanics. Not just HPS
terse oasis
i mean, we have a monk that is doing 40k hps in mythic raids, and every other healer is doing 100k+
that's a problem
fringe marten
The HPS only matters if you just aren't doing it; if you just don't ? HEAL right. If you heal right, your HPS is going to naturally be what you need it to be.
terse oasis
yeah, but that's the only time i look at hps
when i see someone doing bad
like obviously bad
fringe marten
Zea to my point then; he's just not healing..now; does he KNOW healing is covered, and is just trying to push damage to help? and CAN he heal if needed?
(lol morrison what I was just saying)
left hatch
i can't wrap my head around healers that just afk when theres no healing to do
sounds super boring
fringe marten
Or is 40k in that group loadout just meaning he's not even trying to help heals at all?
terse oasis
oh no, like lowest damage o fthe healers too
they are just doing things wrong constantly
fringe marten
..well then... That's a solved equation.
terse oasis
yeah
but the HPS numbers were the first sign of 'what is this guy doing'
before i dug into it more
cause honestly, if we can drop a healer for a dps cause we don't need their healing, that's one thing
and way better than telling a healer to dps more
fringe marten
Fair enough I guess; if you want to use it as a flag to investigate deeper. I just don't see a 'value' in heal parsing; if you're healing enough already then just Roundhouse a mob in the knees so it dies faster~
It is better to be able to simply use less healers; but you want to have good healers when encounters require them.
terse oasis
oh no heal parsing (and even dps parsing) is really not useful
cause right now dps parsing is mostly just 'do i have good corruptions'
fringe marten
Yes I agree; in the current game competitive dps parsing is "How You Lottery?"
terse oasis
nope
prisma crane
same goes for the bleed from the KR guys
terse oasis
hits everyone the same, and you should have more verse
the bleed bypasses armor, hits everyone the same
fringe marten
"Did You Lottery good? Did your Lottery winning item ALSO Lottery good with procs?..You WEENS!"
terse oasis
so let a dps take a bleed stack, or better yet a pet
prisma crane
feels like it hits tanks harder
but maybe they just take no dmg outside of it so it's easier to handle
terse oasis
it doesn't, you're just taking other damage as well
prisma crane
idk, jsut feels weird
fringe marten
Just look at the group frames when he's tantruming; everyones HP is chunking down in similar amounts; just wards/versatility/etc altering it a little.
...you aren't getting ticks in your grill are you?
terse oasis
^ making sure the ticks die is pretty make or break on tyran
since the tantrum is going to require CD's anyways
(on higher keys at least)
fringe marten
If I wasn't a Dark Iron dwarf (dwarf in general) the ticks would be terrifying.
prisma crane
na, not from ticks
my group does fine running over them all
just looks like it hits harder, idk, i'll have to look closer then
fringe marten
If you're a prot warrior..like you supposed to be in here~ (..half of you aren't..) You have Rallying Cry for, usually the 2nd tantrum. The first will be covered by healer cd's themselves.
terse oasis
then you may need to make sure you're using defensives (IP/SW/LS if needed)
terse oasis
yeah, it hits everyone the same
likely the healer is focusing the dps more than you for heals, or they are using personals
fringe marten
I think what you mean is...it actually hurts. And very little else in that dungeon does~ Which would be fairly accurate.
prisma crane
it's just odd, and maybe as simple as the heals prio everyone else during it more
sweet summit
It deals x damage to all players, not more to tanks
terse oasis
and with verse/avoid (hey a place where avoid is useful) you should be taking less than the dps
sweet summit
Tantrum is physical so reduced by armor, tanks should be hit for less
fringe marten
You ever been in a pug with people who just panic their kneecaps off, blow every interrupt on the first cast of the burrowing wurms? /sigh
sweet summit
Bleed ignores armor so thats whatever
fringe marten
Rosjen I think it's classified as a bleed so it hits you for full damage as well; but we have more HP than others.
terse oasis
yes, i've also been in groups where they wont press a kick no matter what
sweet summit
Tantrum is not a bleed
edgy bone
is Uchin from EP good for M+
fringe marten
One bleed in ? Legion actually took armor into account and was negligable.
sweet summit
Yes but not needed @edgy bone
fringe marten
Ticon most warriors tanking cutting edge keys use it because their survivability is an issue, so they're going max defense/self sustain.
edgy bone
@sweet summit So if im running mythic EP should i roll on urchin or coral
sweet summit
Coral for st damage, urchin for m+
fringe marten
That is true
sweet summit
Coral bad in m+
fringe marten
Coral is a fantastic single target DPS trinket; that is what you're getting it for.
terse oasis
if you have them
sweet summit
Even in 20s u dont nees tank trinkets
fringe marten
You're getting it to flex on raid targets you don't need survivability for.
edgy bone
Here is my gear right now:
I feel like if I got Urchin with the Nzoth trinket id never die
terse oasis
i'd focus on running more 14/15s to get 465's everywhere
fringe marten
And in the real world your dps isn't ever needed in a raid situation; we just do it because we wanna see cool numbers like everyone else. The place your DPS is important is M+.
terse oasis
the ilvl bump is a lot more than just a trinket
edgy bone
ok thank you
sweet summit
@edgy bone better play would help more than tank trinkets
edgy bone
The highest i ever tanked was a 13 but i wanna do higher
yeah and i suck at the play aspect
my play is really bad lol
sweet summit
Youll get there ♥️
terse oasis
15's really aren't that hard, just focus on keeping SB up
sweet summit
We all start somewhere
terse oasis
and spending your rage to keep anger management working for youi
fringe marten
Ticon this week really is a great push week too; as long as your group doesn't mongo you with quaking; prot warrior has no issue tanking swarms of stuff deep into the teens even on foritfied. You have to he conscious of keys with angry caster mobs; use pylons to avoid as much as possible (and avoid minibosses with a zillion HP) and then smart use of spell reflect, kicks..shockwave. A lot of beginner warriors forget about using Intim shout as an interrupt as well.
fringe marten
Warriors kit for M+ is quite strong; always has been. Early BFA when we were supposed to be 'bad' I was still doing great. We're just even stronger now.
But I won't lie...High magic damage makes my peepee wither. ...I'm looking at you shadow of Zul...
Rest of the time..Long n' Strong.
sweet summit
Die zul die
terse oasis
i had a 440 warrior tank an 11 ML and he was triple pulling packs with no issue
sweet summit
I miss skipping zul
terse oasis
so yeah, prot war is doing really good this week
fringe marten
Did a 17 shrine of storm on a fort week I think? almost 2 chested it..fealt easy. But I definitely ran Null void AND Edict for that.
because..F dem casters~
terse oasis
just reflect more 😛
sweet summit
This tbh lmao
fringe marten
...believe me I'm pushing R (my reflect bind) as hard as my finger can possibly~
terse oasis
stack more haste, press it more
fringe marten
....
sweet summit
fringe marten
?
terse oasis
❤️
fringe marten
Does this mans know how SR cooldown be?
terse oasis
so a lot of the dangerous magic damage is avoidable/kickable
(the press SR was mostly a joke)
fringe marten
Yes of course; I didn't say we can't manage it..I said, it concerns me.
The actual highest base damage nuke from trash mobs is actually in TD. That salt blast is legit NO JOKE
terse oasis
oh yeah, i just get a lot of mongo dps that wont kick cause they are bad
oh, salt blast tears you up
fringe marten
Salt blast is #2 scary behind Shadow of Zul.
terse oasis
and they cast that and the shield so often even with a full melee group some are going to go off
fringe marten
Remember the time I did a strong king's rest with Enraging...without someone to soothe? Zul 1 tapped me because I forgot he could enrage..
fringe marten
The moment the little shaman mask popped over his head and he grew big and I went "OH Yeah he can enra....BOOM"
terse oasis
you got reverse clapped 😦
fringe marten
Yeah he john wicked my shit...but he was dead a few seconds after
prisma crane
wtb warbringer back
terse oasis
with a peeeeencciiil
fringe marten
...don't remind me..
terse oasis
gladiator stance
prisma crane
warbringer was better
fringe marten
meh glad dps...but Warbringer was so nice.
prisma crane
for M+ at least
short stun that was off the normal DR
sooo
basically an aoe interrupt with the CD of your intercept
fringe marten
yeah I would just change my macro every key; whomever was my melee dps, usually a rogue, they'd be the target of my intervene macro.
fringe marten
and then tell them "stay in the middle of the pack please..always..just focus skull"
prisma crane
hunter pets were the best for it
fringe marten
"why?" "don't ask questions.."
You guys ever try and get dps to stand still for the spiders in UR, and promise them you'll intervene them..and they still straight bolt in terror.
I love safeguard; when I first saw that talent I thought about all the awesome stuff I would do in raids with it. And then reality happened..
prisma crane
never used it much in raids
but did in M+
trying to remember what it competed with
fringe marten
Yeah it's great in Underrot. In raids it SHOULD be an awesome thing, but you end up getting melee stacks from it..all kinda' jank trash.
prisma crane
i just wish you could SR a cast on a friendly when you intercept them
would actually be interesting
fringe marten
Yeah I hate losing extended Tclap range, but worth in UR
IF you can get the dps to listen to you~
nimble brook
true
I've been enjoying crackling thunder and being unkillable on the last boss from victory rush procs
safeguard bloodswarmer is time saver though. will have to try it
fringe marten
Also learned a new trick yesterday; been doing keys all through bfa and someone suggested using the little? ledge thing...the cubby hole in Waycrest for those jumping little guys after the basement boss with lady waycrest. to semi snap them
nimble brook
ah yeah we do that in my group
prisma crane
just have the healer stand in there and everyone else in melee range and they dont jump
fringe marten
They still do their magic cleave crap right? which is actually the thing that makes them bootyhole~
fringe marten
Yeah they stuck though on fortified and Raging.
sweet summit
U need a vortex or you die
warm plinth
Pretty sure even in Legion it was Safeguard/Crackling Thunder/Bounding Stride
fringe marten
It has been; that tier hasn't moved in a long time.
But Safeguard sounds SO amazing; but the reality is there's really very few places to put it to good use.
prisma crane
ah, yea i never really cared about CT in most instances
and BS with bouncy shoulders was great
fringe marten
BTW am I wrong on this; or was this an effect of the relic weapon? Safeguard made you also 'take' all the hits..PLUS 30% damage transfer. Was that just on the relic weapon?
warm plinth
For Warbringer it was Shockwave/Storm Bolt/Warbringer
fringe marten
Crackling Thunder is the go to most dungeons. You just don't need to leap that much unless it's Necrotic. So bigger Clap is a big deal.
undone sun
warbringer 😭
prisma crane
well the real trick with it was to use it and then get at least like 15 yds iirc away so that the 30% reduction stayed but you didnt take the hits
sweet summit
What is warbringer
warm plinth
It was a talent in Legion
prisma crane
was*
undone sun
on intercept you stunned enemies around your target with no DR
fringe marten
A legion talent that was amazeballs.
prisma crane
went under the radar for a long time too
warm plinth
Yep, 1.5 second AoE stun. It was ridiculous.
undone sun
it was
prisma crane
what made it good was that it was off the DR, otherwise most of us prob wouldnt have used it tbh
warm plinth
Yeah you wouldn't have used it I don't think if it was on DR.
undone sun
2 charges as well, tied to charge/intercept
fringe marten
it was a 1? or 2? second stun, but it was not effected by diminishing returns; and it was based on our intervene recharge. So warriors suddenly gained a TON of aoe stun in dungeons through it. The trick was that intercept has a minimum range; intervene does not..so you would intervene a melee in the middle of the pack on cooldown.
Plus some damage!
Sorry..Charge has a minimum range; intercept doesn't. I'm using very old terms when intervene was a word~
When was that? Like you couldn't charge in combat but you could Intervene in combat; that was it's value..it could be used in combat. Is that like? BC?
bright drift
best stat for warrior tank guys? for m+
prisma crane
haste / crit
fringe marten
Haste/Crit/Versa.
bright drift
ty 🙂
prisma crane
but mostly ilvl
warm plinth
It was called intervene still in Legion Dadugan
fringe marten
I personally like versa more than crit; but stastically crit has more value.
was it ghash? ok thanks
warm plinth
Charge for the offensive one, intervene for defensive
Guess they finally got tired of calling them different things in BFA XD
fringe marten
Ah that was it...and in BC you couldn't charge in battle; but you could intervene..it's how you had to deal with mages.
craggy harness
on the earlier note about healers
What’s the best healer class to try and dps on the side
nimble brook
hpally does insane dmg
craggy harness
Ugh okay lol
fringe marten
The second, I believe would be Resto Druid
craggy harness
Tnx
fringe marten
Could be disc priest? not sure honestly
nimble brook
kitty weave
warm plinth
Resto can do decent damage without sacrificing anything though which is their appeal
fringe marten
But holy pally is king peepee in M+ ATM for pushing keys.
craggy harness
Pally is less appealing because already have a pally tank in guild
warm plinth
Sunfire on its own does a fuckload of damage for a single global
little hatch
I am running like 43% haste unbuffed. Should I give some of that up for crit?
fringe marten
Why does it matter if you have a pally tank and a pally healer?!
craggy harness
I don’t want to pally tank
sick sentinel
gross a paladin tank
fringe marten
Johnny I wouldn't.
craggy harness
And outshine him
left hatch
noone does
craggy harness
already doing it as prot wAr
left hatch
pally tank is gross
little hatch
Ok. Ty
left hatch
'will i block this!? lets roll the dice and see 😄 '
fringe marten
? well you're asking about what is stastically good..then saying "but..my feelings.."
You can have 2 pink bois in a group it's fine.
left hatch
that and having your survivability locked down to standing in coscecrate
is negative fun imo
prisma crane
i like good rshaman because they not only bring an interrupt but the shortest interrupt
left hatch
that and totem
fringe marten
Well paladins are great tanks and healers; but their tanking isn't as easy/forgiving as warrior.
left hatch
for the fear
craggy harness
Probably save my pally to level as belf
left hatch
has value in every dugneon now
craggy harness
For the story
left hatch
what... warrior is one of the least forgiving tanks
being proactive
its just more reliable than pink prot
pally you end up getting to a point where if you die or not is rng
sick sentinel
yeah that is completely false to say that being a paladin is easier or less forgiving
left hatch
and you have no agency over it
fringe marten
Paladin also is~ They have good recovery tools and a literal safety bubble. But they still have to be played well to do well; just like warrior.
left hatch
they have inherent flaws to their kit that don't really matter till well above 20
but they are there
fringe marten
But "looking good" as a prot warrior is way easier, you literally put up shield block and Tclap and you look like you doin' it big~
sick sentinel
hpal is b u s t e d
left hatch
hpal is also lots of fun
craggy harness
“Not in guild” is why I went prot after all
left hatch
smack shit with your 2-h and pretend you're ret
fringe marten
Risen there's a pally healer named Zmok; he might be able to join you and he will look pretty ok as a paladin healer~~
left hatch
for 1/2 of every boss
craggy harness
casual heroic guild lol
fringe marten
So just see if he can join you for some keys~
sick sentinel
I have gotten to a point where i dont like running keys without hpal
fringe marten
Must be nice!
I'm still at the "I hope these guys don't suck" stage
"please know how to interrupt dps..just..once please.."
sick sentinel
the more you pug the better you get at vetting your dps
fringe marten
On Comms "DH get next stun and stop the maggots cast.."
"? I don't have an aoe stun man"
.../cry
warm plinth
@prisma crane I was wrong; in Legion it was Impending Victory/Inspiring Presence/Safeguard. Bounding Stride was with Crackling Thunder and Warlord's Challenge
fringe marten
oh inspiring..the "you can never change that" raid talent.
warm plinth
Yeah, because IP OP
prisma crane
IP would legit be amazing in BFA
warm plinth
Yeah it would haha
fringe marten
The thing is; I swapped off prescence once on a progression fight to help out the other tank. We didn't need the healing at all, no one missed it. We wiped due to DPS not doing mechanics of course.. Then after the wipe I said "yeah that seemed to help; I was intervening the other tank with Safeguard..didn't have prescence on" Again: no one even noticed it was gone and we never needed it. Raid lead blew a GASKET "NEVER change a talent like that unless we discuss it before hand.."
prisma crane
there's just a lot of time this expac where the raid isnt topped off, so it would just add safety
fringe marten
Yeah but, even though it looked like a lot of healing on our parse; it was honestly very TINY amounts of healing per player.
prisma crane
but then that paired with 90% IP and unlimited rage and i could tank while also topping dmg and healing
but when ppl die to a tiny overkill it could make or break it
its never a waste unless it overhealed or caused a healer to overheal
fringe marten
RIght; and of course you ran it full time in raids. But honestly any time you killed a mob; it was never EVER going to be the difference for anything.
but yeah of course you're gonna' run the 'little bit of free healing for everyone' trait. but it was a very very small amount of personal healing for everyone.
..when you drop off your mount to hit a pack of the little slimes for the world quest in uldum; and TD procs on the first hit....hehheh...<3
austere storm
So I leveled a warrior to tank but soloing rares in the world is a pain so I'm going to try and put together a dps set. Which spec is less gear/trait reliant or which spec does not have hard requirements for traits?
strong forum
fury
literally requires nothing
and works
you dont even need to know rotation
just mash what lights up
and youll do fine
austere storm
That sounds perfect haha
obtuse meadow
whats our vers cap?
undone sun
no secondary caps/breakpoints
obtuse meadow
whats the breakpoint/
tame garden
100%
sharp night
198% 🙂
if it were 200% there would be conceivably a build that stacks all vers and vers corruptions to make you immortal lol
tawny maple
Hey to SR Despair do you need to press it before she casts it on you or before the explosion
prisma crane
it's still 200%, but in any event, you'll never get close to it
closest i got was on Argus with his buffs i could hit maybe 80% iirc?
which was still effectively a shieldwall rolling with massive dmg buff
you need what like 20k vers to hit 200%?
undone sun
it's a lot
hallow phoenix
Perfectly achievable
undone sun
85 / 170 per 1%
stiff gate
There’s a screenshot from the brewmaster discord of a guy that hit 113% with all his versa procs and everything up lol
hallow phoenix
Disgusting
prisma crane
no, 34k if you want 200% dmg reduction, which doesnt matter
hallow phoenix
More corruption
undone sun
regardless
it's way out of reach
yeah
i also may be over thinking it with 100damage/200dr
¯_(ツ)_/¯
prisma crane
true... 🤔 offset the 80+ corruption thing
hallow phoenix
It'd be 200 damage / 100 DR no?
quartz mist
66 corruption , I only have haste 6% on gloves
left hatch
totally worth it then
quartz mist
corruption RNG have been hella lame so far
left hatch
it feels awful UNTIL you get a few pieces
then the system becomes pretty cool
dare i say fun even
feels good to have choices to think about
that said the rng lottery system feels like the early days of legion legendaries
quartz mist
I also have a pair of pants on my bag with 12% haste from sources as well
but 445 ilvl
left hatch
they needed to make it more targettable or something
quartz mist
in*
quartz mist
interesting , I have so many trinkets as well to choose from , thinking torment over sigil
quartz mist
Im trying to grind out a rezan but its painful
left hatch
and shell should only be used IF :
*youll need it to survive burst damage.
*you know exactly where yo'ull use it pre-putting in the key
*the places you'll use it are roughly 2m apart so its not going to sit on cd
a lotta ppl use it as an o shit button
which.... is not how prot works at all
and if you want it for overall smoothing than the haste trinkets will do that better
its just a 'hidden' value because haste -> more uptime of SB / higher ava uptime isn't shown in meters
quartz mist
are many warriors actually running humming black dragonscale ?
left hatch
yes
quartz mist
assuming its BiS
left hatch
Some combo of Vita, Scale, Rezan and Block are your bis for general purpose
once you start getting clost to and into 20s then its time to consider psychic shell
quartz mist
I got the crit vita last week sadly , feelsbadman
quartz mist
shield up , gone , bye bye crit
left hatch
yup
quartz mist
imma farm up some rezan or block for the mean time , ty for the help
sharp night
@prisma crane @undone sun the vers hard cap is at 99% DR which is 17k vers, not 200% DR (you can't go over 100% DR that makes no sense)
it was tested in legion with concordance
undone sun
👍 it was just me being brain dead
sharp night
they capped it at 99% because you'd literally be immortal with 100% lol
just take no damage ever
craggy harness
oh nevermind, my freebie was used while i was disconnected
grr
and worse, i didn't get the stuff from before i dced
NOICEE!
maybe it was mailed
prisma crane
that shield crit trinket would literally be saved if the crit buff just had a duration and wasnt tied to the shield being up
but blizzard doesnt think stuff like that through, hell even as a dps in most difficult content the shield isnt up for more than a global
hallow phoenix
should just be like that old BC shield i think it was?
chance on block to do chain lightning damage
prisma crane
would be legit if it didnt have an ICD too
muted pecan
noob question.. what does crit do for survivability?
prisma crane
parry
muted pecan
why can't survivability be simmed? (obviously with a ton of assumptions, not accurate)
prisma crane
it would have to be fight specific
so if you want to write out an entire sim for each encounter then you could theoretically sim it
it's just not worth the time
and, on top of that, would be group/raid specific as well
sharp night
also survivability is kind of a binary function
you either live or you die
and most of it comes from hitting buttons correctly
prisma crane
that too, but you'd sim for dtps, which is often overkill
if healers can easily give you X hps, then reducing dtps below X is just as bad as overhealing
left hatch
in the past there has been passable sims for survivability
in legion some big brain put toegehter one for prot pal
but yah even just damage profiles introduce way too many things to account for
and because every group approaches M+ differently you could never do it for there
and its too much work for raid which becomes trivial after the first couple weeks anyway
prisma crane
perhaps on some bosses, but forget about trash sims
in M+
and again, would be comp specific even more in M+
prisma crane
yup
left hatch
healer runs CoF instead of a healing essence, rip your sims
just way too many variables to ever possibly account for
tender perch
hey can any experienced prot warriors help me with something?
left hatch
whats your question
tender perch
i got 2 diff weapons for my tank spec. feralos the sword from wrathion and the one handed gift of the void axe with a socket, should i use the axe with a verse gem socketed so i get the verse and hase from the feralos and the crit from the axe?
they are both 460
left hatch
short answer is sim yourself
the secondary difference is negligable for survivability
if you have corruption budget than wrathion sword will likely be better than a socket
if you don't socket will probably pull ahead
but id still double check
prisma crane
the axe will be better no matter what if you dont keep the corruption on the wrathion sword
and tbh that corrupted effect is meh at best
the only thing i like about it over EV or TD is that it's predictable, but that's it
requiring 30 globals to proc that thing is ridiculous
wheat plume
Am i just gona have low hps as a warrior until i get rank 3 warden/lucid?
i only get between 10-20k hps with with rank 2 lucid/warden
mortal brook
dont base your success as a warrior on your hps meter
warm plinth
Warriors don't self-sustain
mortal brook
you're not a bdk, thats not how you're tanking
wheat plume
then i get healers complaining im too hard to heal and point towards my hps saying it should be like 25-40
mortal brook
do you have any logs?
wheat plume
havent done any nope but i will
mortal brook
post in this channel when you do. most likely its some other issue, either from gameplay or the group or something like that, because warrs primary mitigation is the prevention of damage, not healing.
warm plinth
Your HPS is not why you're too hard to heal; you're very likely not pressing buttons that you should be pressing.
The most common mistake by warriors complaining about survivability issues is that they are prioritizing Ignore Pain and not pressing Shield Block
mortal brook
and like, heck. even if i doubled my outgoing hps, that's still paltry to what healers are outputing in a raid setting.
warm plinth
Yeah honestly if you wanna be a self healing tank, play a VDH. They do some serious HPS
sick sentinel
If you get a healer complaining about a prot warriors hps tell them to shut up
And then complain about their hps
wheat plume
im doing around 15-16 keys right now and i see on youtube warriors pushing 20 keys doing 35-40khps
is that just cause they are using the lucid dream active or whats giving them all that?
warm plinth
Could be. But it's not something to aspire to, and they aren't using Lucid because it gives them more HPS; they're using it for bigger chunks of uptime on Avatar.
left hatch
higher keys inflates hps because every IP gets instantly consumed
thats why their hps is higher
inland silo
for the key level you're at, you want to be using vision of perfection major
left hatch
do not. use it as a metric for survivability
it promotes bad play and has basically no impact on your tankiness
if you keep trying to 'buff' your Hps because dumb healers are complaining you'll fall into a loop of running bad traits like bloodsport, prioritize mashing IP over keeping SB up, or even running that awful IP size talent over Bolster cause itll infalte you hps meter
metrics you CAN be looking at is % of hits blocked, and if you're overcapping rage
because things like that meaningfully impact your survivability
queen bough
isn't leech / mass pulls are the big factor of hps
I just do normal pulls, and I've never reached 40k mark
maiden ravine
I truly believe m+ is easier this season
left hatch
it is
beguilingmade some pulls either impossible to do w/o seperating it, or take abnormally long
artificially inflated the timer way more
see also : Infested
and skips means missing a rogue is no longer such a massive handicap
maiden ravine
that plus we do a lot more damage this expansion
I think dps outscaled the increase in difficulty by a ton
this patch*
left hatch
and yah leech from lucid + the big pulls is a big source of HPS
but as ghash said earlier leech isn't why they use lucid
the high hps is just a side effect of it
and isn't where the strength of the essence lies
undone sun
A bonus
left hatch
^
queen bough
when do you use lucid ? only for mass pulls?
sick sentinel
if ya gotta ask, never :^)
maiden ravine
hmm, they buffed the rank 12 cloak proc by 10%
mortal brook
they just set all ranks to as if it was 15
modest thistle
If you do 20s use lucid
There’s a nifty write up someone pinned as well that talks about all the essences
prisma crane
i do think that lucid has another niche use in lower keys being that it can compensate for a shit healer since it's usually enough self sustain to go without said healer for a reasonable amount of time
granted that's playing around bad players so ymmv
modest thistle
And you can only play around said potato every 2 minutes
lofty chasm
Which trinkets from these should I use: Humming Black Dragonscale(460), Vita-Charged Titanshard(460), Lingering Sporepods(470 + leech)
warm plinth
The first two
oblique garnet
Leech
amber siren
never sporepod
fathom timber
Sporepod on paper sounds like a great trinket. Unfortunatley its pretty bad
hallow phoenix
anyone know if wowanalyzer is functional with bdk?
warm plinth
@sullen valve BDK can haz wowA? ^
warm plinth
I honestly just wanted to ping Abelito
grand spruce
is 1936 haste base without the into the fray buff good?
warm plinth
Yes
grand spruce
is that enough or can you keep going though?
left hatch
no amount of obtainable haste is enough
grand spruce
i see. but its still ilvl above all?
left hatch
exception being rings and trinkets yeh
grand spruce
okay. Thank you
lilac quail
Why is Brace preferred over Iron?
tame garden
More dam
left hatch
and more block in situations you're constantly SSing
sick sentinel
The only way to get the higher level punch cards is base OM, right?
Got a r3 twilight dev piece finally.
Insta 50k overall
mortal brook
gratz!
pallid berry
mythic maut down, my dps finally stopped killing themselves on his skin
mortal brook
bless
pallid berry
i got the arms maut weapon and still no god damn wraithon
weapon, we've cleared it three times, all bonus rolls
stark scroll
@sick sentinel I don't think you can anymore, the M0 drops 430(?) And doesn't titanforge, the crafted one is the same
main shoal
Hey should i worry if i have low haste even if i equip higher item lvl?
sweet summit
No, nothing to worry about
sweet summit
Is that all you have?
sweet summit
Vision major
Lucid and aegis minors
Do you need the corruption resistance?
Do you have sphere?
sweet summit
Pog
main shoal
Gonna check if i can buy it
main shoal
Lol i remembered i spent my marks of honor on wrathful transmog
lmao ima farm them
also in which dungeons or fights do i use dynamo?
main shoal
Ugh i have to farm that rank 3
main shoal
Also why vision over touch major?
stark scroll
There's a recent pin explaining major essences
sweet summit
Honestly, i dont even know what touch major does. But VoP is the go-to for the majority and will probably give you better resaults
main shoal
Well its mostly a passive which prevents your from dying and resets shield wall
Going to check that pin tho
brisk night
does anyone have any tips for the caster adds in the 2nd half of KR, i seem to get wrecked constantly by them adds. even with good interupts
brisk night
hmm. ok. i gues i will keep trying. just seems like they cast so fast even after being interupted that we run out of them, and i run out of reflects, then i am geting starved for rage trying to keep igrnore pain up for them.
sweet summit
Dont be afraid to kite/LoS if you have to
carmine nymph
I’ve noticed it’s all about your group. Good heals and good tank can’t always get through to carry a group. Was just in a 10 win to end the night and my group wouldn’t int anything and kept accidentally pulling extra more then I can handle.
sick spindle
In KR+10 you should only be having 2 at the start after 2nd boss with the Berserker. Those can be a little bit nasty. After that, you should probably be taking one obelisk to halfway the bridge, then go back out where you got in. Take the other obelisk to 3rd boss room. That way you can take the portal in the boss room back to halfway through the bridge.
You only ever have to deal with 1 caster mob that way, avoiding the big nasty packs on the bridge. And the 1 caster mob can be handled with 3 melee interrupts and reflect easily.
(forgot about teeming btw, that might fuck up KR, haven't been in there this week yet)
sharp night
with teeming KR you need to clear almost everything in the dungeon except the last 2 packs before 3rd boss
sick spindle
This probably still works then
(sorry for scuffed wago route, at work can't share a proper one ^^)
sharp night
i just clear halfway on bridge and then use the obelisk to skip to 3rd boss, have everyone stay in obelisk realm after 3rd boss and activate the slime boss solo
while everyone else runs across bridge to zul room and i run over after activating
then all tentacles teleport to us in a group and we can aoe all
jolly locust
is echoing void good or semi decent for prot warrior?
sharp night
decent
carmine nymph
I think twilight dev is best for m+
sick spindle
@sharp night Yeah that sounds good on teeming weeks
onyx vessel
Use both 
sweet summit
I wish
vapid loom
Good morning fellow warriors
Question .. are we viable for taking ravager in hivemind mythic?
amber siren
no
upbeat orbit
Warriors aren’t very optimal on raid content rn
I mean you can do it
But it’s not as good as other things
sweet summit
Make one of the dks take the ravager and you sit afk on one boss
vapid loom
Lul
amber siren
sweet summit
@vapid loom 2 tanking or 3 tanking?
upbeat orbit
Ravager talent 
hallow phoenix
Warrior can handle it just fine
upbeat orbit
Pretty sure warrior can just block everything the ravager does
hallow phoenix
Not the bleed
upbeat orbit
Oh
hallow phoenix
But bleeds fuck everyone up
upbeat orbit
Unless your a dwarf
upbeat orbit
Did we get a luffa this expansion
hallow phoenix
Anyway
sweet summit
Engi helm and self caut 
hallow phoenix
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
upbeat orbit
RNG will fix everything in time