that's with swirling sands
#protection
sick sentinel
strong forum
I sleep
strong forum
Rav memes
tame garden
I've been saying this since the start
Stack ineffable truth
Talent ravager
Win game
exotic spoke
Lol
undone sun
🤦♂️
tame garden
sick sentinel
that's big
infinite ravagers
infinite 80% parry
just save shield blocks for non-ravager windows
tame garden
Who needs anger management when ineffable truth does the same thing
sick sentinel
= win
cinder fjord
Hey guys - Is BV still generally the go-to choice this tier or are y'all having better damage output with devastator now? Survivability isn't really an issue for me
sick sentinel
BV is better 2 targets and higher
no matter what
there aren't really any pure st fights
just go BV
cinder fjord
Kk that's what I figured
stoic pilot
Can run deva on shadhar but that’s prob about it
cinder fjord
hahahahaha
tame garden
@ionic fern pls add infinite ravager build to guides ty
sick sentinel
get swirling sand proc
use with swirling sand
drop necrotic instantly
profit
swirling sands proc with no other proc with ravager is 77% parry
swirling sands is like 1ppm
ravager is 1cd
1mcd*
profit
craggy harness
sure thing death machine celine
hallow phoenix
ayyy just got gore block
bout time
@cinder fjord I'm finding devastator and BV to be very very similar in DPS this tier
brittle owl
there's alot of stuff to pad on with BV
only boss where that isnt the case is shadhar
hallow phoenix
skitra i would use devastator as well
craggy harness
Maut?
cinder fjord
The reason I asked is because most of the top logs I'm seeing are running devastator, but I know there's a ton of variance there. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my damage
hallow phoenix
Devastator unless youre tanking the adds in tclap range of the boss (which you should)
hallow phoenix
You should be on adds imo
brittle owl
^
brittle owl
lit every other tank has a better kit that warrior for the boss
and warrior is just straight up bis on adds
hallow phoenix
I run devastator on wrathion too but i could see a good argument for BV
Sadly our fire mage yells at me if i dont drag the assassins around to spread his ignite
brittle owl
entirely depends on how fast you kill him
tame garden
Wrathion weird boss
ionic fern
@tame garden what's that?
tame garden
It's the future mwahi
hallow phoenix
yes
tame garden
The future of prot
hallow phoenix
How many ineffable truths do you need to get infinite ravager
ionic fern
....
brittle owl
hallow phoenix
:^)
brittle owl
actually dusting off my warrior atm
hallow phoenix
its not my build!
brittle owl
boomer mwahi
undone sun
you sure can
tame garden
Um
hallow phoenix
tyrant
brittle owl
spent too much time with lincoln
ionic fern
😂
brittle owl
the communism rubbed off
undone sun
🗞️
brittle owl
ionic fern
Make ravager baseline and make AM reduce its CD then we can talk about it.
tame garden
Unfortunately I cleaned my only ineffable truth piece
brittle owl
"theorycrafter"
tame garden
But in 6 months when I have 3 or 4
brittle owl
more like
brittle owl
"own narrative crafter"
tame garden
And you'll all see
ionic fern
😂
We'll all be sorry we doubted you.
And i'll be demoted for not advertising Ravager.
tame garden
and speg will rise
hallow phoenix
furry-lite
tame garden
Yeah its gnar
craggy harness
issues, with tissues
dusk minnow
Is there a dungeon gear guide?
hallow phoenix
as in which dungeons have the best gear?
mortal brook
yes, m+ droptimizer on raidbots
brittle owl
^
fringe ferry
ya the inner ring before ilvl upgrade is interesting but wasnt sure
fringe ferry
cool
wooden radish
@ionic fern look at this dog abusing this cat. 😦
hollow agate
does spell reflect for prot not work the same was as fury and arms?
is it like just hte first spec
spell*
warm plinth
Yes it’s just the first spell.
Unless the spell isn’t reflectable, then the damage reduction lasts until the 5 seconds expires or a spell is reflected.
hallow phoenix
nein
brisk rain
:/
warm plinth
It's not that avoidance in itself is bad. It's that we don't have nearly as many spells that it applies to as we did in Legion. Hence why it's very meh now.
daring bay
on Maut does tanking the adds in the black circles deplete their mana? :O
tame garden
Yes
daring bay
nice to know
and on mythic, if we are 2 tanking it
when should i ram the add into the boss?
wooden radish
you want to run them into the boss right before you transition to the burn phase
tame garden
Can feed him the 2nd add when hes close to full mana
1st add p much just dies to mana drain
daring bay
dont you get 3 adds?
exotic spoke
Not if done properly imo
stoic pilot
Usually our 3rd add is the one that gets brought in
daring bay
do you also get 2 stone phases?
mortal brook
been runnin both in when 3rd is like 8s from spawning
stoic pilot
Generally ya. But depends on your raids dps
exotic spoke
After third stone phase you wipe
mortal brook
2 phases still. gettin close tho
stoic pilot
We only get 1 now
hallow phoenix
I drag the first two adds in about 5 seconds before third dark manifestation
The third add spawn will cancel if you phase the boss before the add actually pops up
exotic spoke
That’s what I do tusks
stoic pilot
Makes sense
hallow phoenix
My guild still has two stone phases
but we're very close to just one
We also drop a pool very early on right next to the boss so our boss tank can hop in there without moving boss, and so I can tank the adds in it while getting boss cleave
Plus I assume some classes like having extra stuff to dot right next to boss
daring bay
dosnt the add get absorbed to the boss?
tame garden
Ye theres a couple ways to tank maut
hallow phoenix
They dont get absorbed if theyre not close enough
mortal brook
yes, but a full mana add getting absorbed by a 95% mana maut only puts him at 100%
theres no overheal on the mana eat
rapid tide
Nothing big for most but I hit the 50k sim on my prot. I am happy now.
Also improved my logs on reclear this week.
I really start to love tanking right now 😄
tame garden
mortal brook
rapid tide
Also re: Maut: We literally just immediately pull adds in.
hallow phoenix
BossTank
Adds Boss
Me
rapid tide
Outside of p3.
hallow phoenix
boss tank didnt format right but he's right in front of boss
rapid tide
Which is normally over at 2nd spawn.
brittle owl
on hc you just ignore adds alltogether
hallow phoenix
aesri what is p3
rapid tide
I meant mythic.
Oh.
After 2nd mana phase I meant.
We always get 2 mana phases due to our smol brain strategy I guess 😄
But it works and is super easy to execute.
brittle owl
it's just a dps check
hallow phoenix
But then how do you pad
rapid tide
Ye, you definitely can.
But since we immediately pull adds in we always get it at ~60% boss health.
No matter the dps in all honesty.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mA189gFCBbGjaPVX/#fight=17&type=damage-done
This is basically how it looks for us.
daring bay
What happens if you have 2 adds
and ram them into the boss at 95% mana?
do both get absorbed?
elder berry
@daring bay yes they would both get absorbed but anything that is absorbed after he goes to mid would restore his mana so you would want them to be soak by boss simultaniously
daring bay
ah, then why arent everyone doing that?
just nuke til 3 adds are up then soak ehm all at 95%?
brittle owl
it's finnicky and annoying if you end up absorbing 1/2 instead of all 3
that's the main reason
also it's the third boss
and it's really easy, so most people don't know all the interactions
because you don't need to
elder berry
I have done a strat where the add is instantly fed to the boss when it pops up but not keeping them around
tame garden
Lots of ways to do it
And 3rd boss so it rly doesnt matter
Do what works for your guild
tame garden
sick sentinel
I was using my socketed vita/dragonscale (mainly for haste proc and speed) but I have a N’zoth shell trinket too
Oh that’s the whole workshop dungeon
hallow phoenix
I mean your block% seems fine
looking through a few other workshop logs
Did you feel like you were taking too much damage?
sick sentinel
Idk, I felt a bit squishy and I’m trying to figure out why. I did have to just eat a necrotic more than I’d like to since spacing was an issue
And the Druid kept being basically in melee so couldn’t intercept to reset
left hatch
since s4 iv just been running the heroic leap talent instead of Tclap radius
can be real useful here
hallow phoenix
i think i'd die without my tclap radius 😦
left hatch
and is really strong any weak for some of the nzoth adds
hallow phoenix
so used to it now
potent anvil
In workshop? The only scary point where necrotic gets too much is the trash right before third boss. Third boss can be kinda spooky if you're just unlucky with parries. In which case you have someone taunt across the room after fire beams.
sick sentinel
Yeah, I felt very squishy on the pack before the “flower” spawning (3rd) boss and the bridge before last boss since you only pull first pack
potent anvil
Shield generators help a ton, so just stand in those.
sick sentinel
Yeah I believe I leaped a few times but I’m just so used to intercepting to a ranged player if we have one
Every time I did it was like 5ft so I was like... fuck
Yeah I did when needed I believe. Idk just felt like I should’ve been tankier I guess. I wanna start pushing higher keys but I need to build my IO. Sadly the only way to do is is playing prot despite fury being my main spec
I’m like a pretty good fury but feel like a mediocre prot lol
warm plinth
Yeah, the trash there seems to be pretty much designed to use the shields. The pack before the boss especially has that nasty DoT going out (especially if one lands on you while they're enraged), not to mention the stacking bleeds and gigawallops if people aren't kicking
left hatch
and squirrels
even with shield you can get fucked by a squirrel exploding under the shield at a bad time
sick sentinel
Oh yeah I have the kick weak aura so I just throw a fear shout at them if a kicker isn’t ready
mortal brook
cant trust the shields tho. squirrels going off and BAM SHIELDS ARE GONE
potent anvil
I don't think there's much to be tankier in there. I ran CoF major for boss dps. Metallic jaws hit for a lot during enraged so either kite the dogs or soothe if you have them.
warm plinth
I always just stun the squirrels so I don't really think about those
sick sentinel
Do you guys think for keys I’m better off using my 460 socketed vita/475 scale as opposed to using 470 N’zoth trinket?
potent anvil
On a 19, jaws did 200k+ thru block when enraged 😬
warm plinth
Spicy
mortal brook
heck
sick sentinel
Oooof
left hatch
i woudln't use the nzoth trinket at the key level im running (15range)
because theres nothing i need it for
sick sentinel
I’ll just hope to critical block. I have a fairly mastery heavy build atm
mortal brook
do you need to be running the nzoth trinket? the other trinkets are giving you strong capability as well
left hatch
^ unless you know you NEED it to live and know exactly where you'll use it on cd
sick sentinel
I don’t think so. I really like the move speed on the scale trinket tbh
left hatch
the haste trinks will do more for you
sick sentinel
And having high uptime on the haste
left hatch
both for dps and survival
left hatch
plus you share the love with it
i really like all the 'gives stat to group member' effects
sick sentinel
Yeah. Kinda weird vita is such a strong trinket and basically the rest suck
Oh I have a 460 Xanesh trinket too but that’s just dps
left hatch
i just got that on my DH
hallow phoenix
Use it on a low level character
sick sentinel
Mr munchkins?
hallow phoenix
I gave a 21 warrior 300% haste
left hatch
my guild fell apart so i pulled a Pinky and am now Havoc
mortal brook
'just dps' kills the enemy faster, which drastically reduces incoming damage, which is nice for tanking
warm plinth
left hatch
best defensive in the game is being out of combat
mortal brook
at that point only fall dmg can get ya
left hatch
and bursting
tame garden
Never go full pinky
left hatch
its too late ):
warm plinth
WOW
tame garden
📉
left hatch
the really sad thing is i have less than 30 hours played at max level... and have a higher neck ilvl than 1/2 my old guild
big yikes
exotic spoke
Do I transfer gold to a dead backwater server for a shield....
sick sentinel
True, but at some point you doing more dps is less benefit than the group doing more dps
left hatch
thats only really applicable if you're chain pulling
which in a lot of cases the limiting factor isn't tank survivability
sick sentinel
Main goal as a tank is to stay alive and directing all damage you can towards yourself and mitigating it, damage is second to that
left hatch
its unavoidable group aoe
or not having enough kicks for scary shit
and no
tanks job is the same as dps
sick sentinel
Well I’m talking like pugs
left hatch
just with more responsibility
sick sentinel
Because I’ll have to pug to get my IO to a decent enough spot to find a team I can run with
hallow phoenix
tanking is dps with extra steps
sick sentinel
What sucks is all the daily chores BS I have to do before/after raid to keep up so I can stay relevant
Then find a group for keys.
left hatch
in M+ especially every rolls job is to give as much output as possible without sacrificing a comfortable level of safety/survivability
tbh you don't 'need' to do the dailies
sockets are big value but
get your cloak upgrade, and do the rajani dailies to get towards that augment rune
and call it a day
don't burn yourself out
mortal brook
even then, what's a 60 stat augment rune when you have 10k mainstat
and TD
whatever
warm plinth
Well yeah, if 60 stat didn't matter then we wouldn't use gems :p
mortal brook
3 vessel weekly effort is tiny amounts of time, keeps you relevant just fine. dont have to go full sweaty degen 7 vessels a week
we dont use gems
we use 11 gems
warm plinth
If you have 11 sockets, sure
mortal brook
soon
left hatch
you will (:
warm plinth
-_-
mortal brook
and that's secondary man. rune is just mainstat
warm plinth
Just put it in your offhand and you'll use it the rest of the expansion
left hatch
damn really
warm plinth
I was actually going to make a joke earlier about how you're going to get TD R3 on your DH when I only have R1
And it fucking happened lol
left hatch
too soon
sick sentinel
Nah I need to. Neck level scales to infinity, I need more coalescing to 5 mask clear since I failed like twice already this week but know why and how to fix it next time.
left hatch
the neck lvl gets more satisfying to grind if you put yourself into a mindset that tank dps still matters
mortal brook
secondary gem >>>>>>> rune
sick sentinel
Also need to keep up so I’m not entirely replaced
left hatch
survivability wise the neck is zzzzz
sick sentinel
I’m fury main
left hatch
but all those essences scaling and bonus stats have big value to dps
sick sentinel
So i do that anyway
exotic spoke
“Neck level scales to infinity” do you know how little you actually gain per level? It’s actually really minor
tame garden
Infinity
sick sentinel
Minor or not I HAVE to continue grinding or I get replaced.
tame garden
Yikes
warm plinth
No one is gonna replace you if you have 6 less ilevel on your necklace lol
Unless they're a moron
sick sentinel
Our arms warrior has been in for first prog for us each week
sick sentinel
I can play arms but I don’t enjoy the spec and am not as great as fury but still somehow beating our arms warrior in boss damage on the fights I’ve done
exotic spoke
It has DR if I remember correctly
sick sentinel
I haven’t seen a first kill with the guild since the first 3 now because unholy seems to be amazing and our dps have been greedy on first kills using a ton of corruption etc
exotic spoke
But you play to have fun. I personally don’t find grinding neck levels fun
Don’t get me wrong - I went hardcore no life week one and got 75. But it dropped off hard
I don’t even have time to do all the assault dailies every day.
left hatch
and its still enough of a change that ill keep doing my weekly islands, emmisaries and do some WQ shit when im bored
exotic spoke
If you’re not having fun / if you’re not in a guild pushing hall of fame it honestly doesn’t matter
sick sentinel
Yeah I try to balance that around also raiding
We’re not but we’re pushing for top 100 US
Maybe that’ll be HOF. Maybe not
left hatch
probs worth to at least do emmisaries and weekly islands then
sick sentinel
Idk if we have enough ranged to do ilignoth the way people have.
left hatch
esp since AK is still rolling in
sick sentinel
Yep
exotic spoke
I mean yeah Morrison. I just meant full AP clears
left hatch
oh yah forget that haha
sick sentinel
Also idk if we even have enough immunities for N’zoth
Guild killed RA-den last night
So we only have dest, ilg, and N’zoth
mortal brook
immunities were important with a lower ilvl. youll be fine when you get there without mass immunes
exotic spoke
Something people often forget
Not everyone on the raid team can be in on progression
On average 4ish people will be sat
left hatch
^ method/limit strats are for pushing/cheesing fights when they're undergeared for the content
by the time 99% of the playerbase hits the content theres better strats
sick sentinel
We have like a 30 person roster lmao
mortal brook
hjigher ilvl, more procs, more resist, bigger essences
sick sentinel
So more like 10
mortal brook
30 is a heck
sick sentinel
And yeah I get that but I still feel pretty shitty being replaced by a trial
Who just became a raider but still
exotic spoke
If a player is consistently sat - and it’s not because of strat / comp- then it’s either because of poor dps or poor mechanics
And 30 is huge for a mythic team. When I was an officer my goal was about 26
sick sentinel
Like I do good damage still. Also swapped to warrior because we had more DH apps and had no warrior in EP. I had a warrior and knew how to play so I swapped so we’d have battleshout
exotic spoke
24-26. Any lower than 24 and I didn’t feel comfortable
exotic spoke
Any more than 26 and you have issues like the above
mortal brook
24 is pretty good for swappin in an out a healer, and accounting for ppl being absent. 30 is a big heck
sick sentinel
That’s me. I don’t do bad damage
Well we’ve had a lot of absents in the past. We also continue raiding usually into the next tier or with a few weeks break tops
Like one guy a warlock we have travels a lot for work and occasionally has to miss a week or two
exotic spoke
It’s not all about damage cbegs. It may be mechanical
sick sentinel
Yeah I’m better at mechanics usually
final mist
There was a guy in one of my last guilds who pumped damage, but he couldn’t do mechanics to save his life
He was a farm raider
sick sentinel
Tho I did die on the first pull on Maut a whole once by being winter off lmao
exotic spoke
I looked up two of your logs. In one fight you were the first death and in another you took the third most damage (1st after the tanks)
sick sentinel
But I also blame our strat
final mist
Oof
exotic spoke
Maybe they were the exceptions. Butttttttt the first two fights I checked - a vexiona and a hive mind kill - had those issues
sick sentinel
Maut? Yeah idk why TF we rank on the edge. It’s kinda dumb but they called me to clear debuff when wings were about to happen
exotic spoke
And if I saw that on a cursory look maybe a RL going through more in depth may see other issues
sick sentinel
Our last hivemind yeah was bad.
I did better on other pulls but by the end of the night I was out of it and playing sloppy
exotic spoke
I have no horse in the race - just devil’s advocate here
Because it’s not all dps related 🙂
warm plinth
tfw you get to a WQ mob as it's dying and don't get tag 😦
sick sentinel
Yeah just explaining. Everyone was playing shitty our past hivemind kill
And yeah vexiona I died on, didn’t see the aoe circle dude when we shifted into phase two. It was the only time I got hit by one of them lol
But my dps was poor because 2 UHDK/fire mage and I barely even got to see the adds. So I said fuck it and went ST build. Did good boss damage tho
exotic spoke
You took 7k more DTPS than the other warrior though - on a healing intensive fight.
You took 5k more dtps than the next dps. Maybe it’s an outlier - but that’s a nasty ducking outlier
warm plinth
You're a nasty outlier
sick sentinel
Vex?
Most of my damage taken was RNG it looks like
Where do you see the corruption # on the character page of WCL when looking at a log?
sick sentinel
OH
pastel vector
bracers from mechagon worth to use over bracers with stats?
sick sentinel
Yeh I fucked up that. Rolly adds
exotic spoke
On vexiona you took 19.1k dtps. The other warrior took 12.2k dtps
You also died 2 minutes before the end of the fight
sick sentinel
That was end of night and honestly we should’ve called it before that
exotic spoke
So your damage taken would have been even higher if you were alive
warm plinth
bracers from mechagon worth to use over bracers with stats?
@pastel vector No
sick sentinel
Everyone was playing like shit. I had better pulls before that but others died meaning we wiped
pastel vector
thx
exotic spoke
You took a lot of excess damage to corruption - which is controllable
sick sentinel
Yeah look at the damage taken. All rng
exotic spoke
That is not RNG. That is controllable
sick sentinel
That pull I took substantially less damage on
mortal brook
idk if they'd be looking that specifically. could just be comp or loot based really
but yeah that's improvable things
irregardless
sick sentinel
Yeah but I’m talking about the damage taken from eye. When it pops up is not controllabel
And whether I can move from it is not controllable.
sweet summit
Spell reflect?
warm plinth
He's fury, not prot
sweet summit
mortal brook
use your cloak active?
sick sentinel
I think I did. But idk maybe I didn’t
exotic spoke
Like I’m not trying to be a dick
But claiming corruption is RNG only is wrong. Sorry to say - you can control that. Cloak, timing, gear, positioning (at certain stages). All ways to correct it
You had significantly more hits than anyone else
To quote a strike in Gallywix “if your corrupt is going to kill you then don’t wear it”
sick sentinel
Either way I needed to have greater than 39 but less than 60 corruption to do competitive dps on vex since 39 corruption wasn’t cutting it
exotic spoke
Dying isn’t competitive dps either though /shrug
sick sentinel
Yeah, well it wouldn’t have killed me.
If you see other pulls I did fine or better than most.
exotic spoke
Though only 7 people on vex got hit by grand delusions
sick sentinel
The reason I died was combo of this
mortal brook
the main thing i look for in my melee choices when i make a raid comp is...do i notice that melee? if i notice him, he's probably doing things he could be avoiding 😄
exotic spoke
As a former RL / officer all I’m hearing is “I have problems being consistent”
Again - just saying why they may have decided things
sick sentinel
mortal brook
the quiet professionals not eating mechanics when they dont have to is huge
sick sentinel
I didn’t see the smash because it occurred at a very shitty time iirc, transition from P1-P2
Or during another mechanic where it should’ve been dead. Idk just didn’t see the circle and was surprisingly the first time I was hit by smash.
Yeah I get what you’re saying I guess I just feel as if I’m expected to play perfectly every time when we have others who aren’t held to the same standard
mortal brook
thats a matter of being noticed which could be personality even. I'll take the guy that goes 'yeah missed kick sorry' quietly than the 'i missed kick but i hit it right 4 times before this!' very loudly.
sick sentinel
Yup. Encroaching shadows is the P2 mechanic correct?
final mist
You are expected to play perfectly every time
mortal brook
yes
sick sentinel
Then yeah I made 1 mistake.
mortal brook
more you get noticed, the more they notice you, ya know
sick sentinel
Out of all the pulls we did.
exotic spoke
It’s not that you’re expected to play perfectly every time - though as you move up in guilds it is more of a requirement to get closer to no errors
I’m just saying if I saw these errors on some of your kills very quickly then maybe there’s more if you go deeper into it. Maybe there’s not. Idk
You don’t need to explain to us - I’m just explaining a RL / Officer point of view. And at a glance it didn’t look good mechanically
Anyway, o have to get back to work so good luck
warm plinth
Yeah do some work for a change Riki
mortal brook
wtf sir get work done
exotic spoke
I don’t wanna. I’ll be back in 15 minutes or so when I’m waiting for a stupidly huge spreadsheet to calculate
sick sentinel
Yeah but you don’t look at only kills do you when evaluating logs?
final mist
Making mistakes is fine, but (speaking as a former RL) I’ve seen you mostly chalking mistakes up to bad RNG.
That’s a bit of a red flag for me.
sick sentinel
No I said the damage I took (eye) is rng
The smash was my fault but I didn’t see it
final mist
But if you hadn’t gotten hit by other shit that’s avoidable, that RNG wouldn’t have mattered.
mortal brook
always room for targeted improvement!
sick sentinel
It happened as we transitioned when it should’ve been dead aka we pushed at a bad time
exotic spoke
And no you don’t. But when the very first two kills (or pulls in general) I look at have issues then that’s another red flag
final mist
Let me put it this way
Out of the ~420 pulls I did on M Argus, I was the cause of maybe 2-3 wipes
I still should not have caused either of those wipes
sick sentinel
Weren’t you a warlock sal?
brisk rain
guuuuys, how much corruption are you using in m+
final mist
Yeah, I get tired and bored because of dipshit melee, but my mistakes are still my mistakes
sick sentinel
And didn’t you raid with me in Antorus
final mist
I can’t blame anyone else for my mistakes
sick sentinel
Cbegsdh my old main
brisk rain
with td rank 3 im sitting on 23, cant get below 39 if i equip any other item
mortal brook
i lost a top 50 tank spot for dying to a mechanic twice. cuz tanks shouldnt do that 😄
final mist
Jimmy the Ret Pally might be causing more mistakes and wipes, but his performance doesn’t reflect on me, my mistakes reflect on me
exotic spoke
That’s all I’d use then artji
sick sentinel
You raided with me on your alt I believe
mortal brook
i wouldnt go beyond 59 @brisk rain . 39~59 is a convo on comfort level between you and your healer
brisk rain
mhm
final mist
No, and I never played a Druid in antorus
I’ve been a warrior main for pretty much all my time in WoW, aside from a few very small points
sick sentinel
Oh weird. Must’ve been a different sal.
untold tulip
Struggling to find a good single target rotation for prot
sick sentinel
They had a photo of some kid with makeup smeared on their face back then iirc
untold tulip
can't even consistently do 25k
sweet summit
@untold tulip got logs?
left hatch
the rotation is SS>TC>revenge>Deva
not much more to it
the biggest dps losses are not using Ava/DS on cd
or hitting deva when more important things are up
or having empty gcds
urban briar
what better engi helm at 480 or zecond zight helm at 460?
left hatch
engi helm
mortal brook
20ilvl is lots
left hatch
the only helm below 475 thats really comparable to engi is heroic nzoth one
urban briar
that the zecond zight iznt it
terse oasis
so for m+ it's Haste/Crit yeah?
left hatch
but its not 460, itd be 470
mortal brook
yez it iz
left hatch
yeh
if its 460 im assuming you have the normal version, which isn't worth taking over engi helm
terse oasis
so why is the mastery azerite trait rated so high?
just the best of all the other options?
left hatch
because its high uptime on a metric fuckload of mastery
exotic spoke
^^
left hatch
and its exactly why mastery is rated lower than any other trait for us
left hatch
if you have 2k+ from that you don't really need it from other sources
terse oasis
i haven't really played prot warrior since the start of s2, and even then super casual
left hatch
prots basically exactly the same
sullen valve
@warm plinth Hey buddy. Remember wowA is pretty great for prot warrior
mortal brook
mastery also rated low cuz the ap scaling is poor, and things like TD are amped by haste/crit/vers but not mastery
left hatch
except now Tclap doesn't have prio in ST
terse oasis
but i feel like i'm starting to hit a wall at about 22-2400 on the guardian druid
left hatch
we just now shoot lasers, and live in avatar
terse oasis
(also i got a rank 3 TD boots on my first chest.. so i can clap pretty good :P)
mortal brook
thatll get you to 3k yeah
sick sentinel
TC takes prio when uhhh your dps CD procs or you activate it tho I thought
Can’t remember the name, VOP proc cd
mortal brook
avatar early and often
left hatch
before the nerf to the tclap talent it did more single target than SS
sick sentinel
With avatar up*
sick sentinel
Word
left hatch
it was real fucking hard to break that habit though after s2 lol
hallow phoenix
I still mess up sometimes
sick sentinel
Uhhh yeah I have to rework some things when I get home lmao
wooden radish
@sullen valve hi
hallow phoenix
I thought Lincoln was just Abe with a new name?
wooden radish
I’m @ionic fern’s cat.
wooden radish
Hi
sullen valve
prot pally
Emallson has made me believe its not a tank spec
randomly going from 40% to 0 in 1 gcd
simple quest
wrathion weap corruption bad for m+?
tame garden
😂
urban briar
whatz the bezt trait in the zecond ring of engi helm?
mortal brook
Wrathion weapon is middle of the pack
twilit bramble
How good is the proc on the anodized deflectors? Just got a 470 crit haste avoidance bracers from vision, currently using 475 deflectors with T1 avoidant. I'm a bit at a lost which ones are better.
warm plinth
It's not a proc. It's an on-use. They're probably somewhat even. I'd probably use the 470s, but I guess you could just macro the 475s to something
twilit bramble
yeh on-use my bad, I have it macroed to my demo shout right now.
warm plinth
I'd probably put it on like, TC or something
You want to use it on CD or there's no real point in having it
wooden radish
@ionic fern will leech heal me from my corruption procs?
e.g. infinite star procs do i get healed from the dmg it deals?
lapis pond
Happy friday brothers and sisters in war!
wooden radish
@ionic fern blame the people in how for giving me this fodder 🙂
wooden radish
its a dumb question
mortal brook
you'd think it would tho
wooden radish
its such a fucking edge case
mortal brook
TD leech would be like, a full heal in a lot of scenarios
esp as it takes over as highest dmg dealt
was worth lookin at at least
wooden radish
that doesn't really cover "a lot of scenarios"
you're saying that TD scales
and leech from TD scales
big whoop
but imagine using leech
tame garden
Leech is bis
mortal brook
yeah, 100% not worth going out of the way for
left hatch
idk about full heal
wooden radish
yea, even that is suspect
left hatch
~200k per hit with 10 targets would be 2m in damage
mortal brook
noteworthy, but not notable, right
left hatch
at a GENEROUS 5% leech thats 100k heal
wooden radish
^
mortal brook
but during like, memory active
full heal
but it doesnt seem to leech so its a non-issue either way
exotic spoke
Memory active is a minor case to be fair. And you’re already clapping hard then
warm plinth
Hi @wooden radish
exotic spoke
Either way - why isn’t this day over
wooden radish
the leech for lucid dream is on the major
left hatch
yeh considering lucid major makes it even more of an isolated outlier case
warm plinth
Riki did you guys 5 mask yet?!
exotic spoke
I duo’Ed it. We haven’t as a group. Lack of time this week
warm plinth
Time to solo!
exotic spoke
Scuffed run but had plenty of time left
nimble brook
what class did you run with?
I've been doing prot + boomy but I wonder if prot + resto is easy with the health scaling
plush prism
Do you guys find Strength of the Warden useful at all as a minor?
My minors are a little limited because I mainswitched and don't have a lot of the rep grinds
ionic fern
It's usable if you need the corruption resistance in m+ scenarios.
exotic spoke
I just did hunter prot. It was scuffed cause we were testing something else that failed and then just did it anyway
plush prism
I don't need the corruption resistance. Also doing 12/12 H (and hopefully some Mythic soon) Ny'a
mortal brook
if you dont need the resist then theres better options
if you do need the resist, formless is in most cases still the better option
tame garden
Lazy
mortal brook
got all xpack to remedy that!
plush prism
I only mainswitched like a month ago 😦
mortal brook
5 weeks gets every r3 😄
plush prism
well I also really only came back to the game in general a couple of months ago. all of this stuff is pretty new to me lol
plush prism
Yeah
modern brook
Vibe with that
plush prism
I've started doing these grotesque naz dailies to get Lucid
modern brook
No flying?
plush prism
And Null Dynamo will be rank 3 at some point too
I have flying
Got it on my other char before mainswitching
elder berry
those were the days
modern brook
Naz dailies arent that bad then
modern brook
I'm at the point where I have to raid to get corrupted gear
Cause I got 3 trinkets and 2 rings so far from my chests
And I hate my life because of it
plush prism
lol that sucks man
I got a 470 belt with R3 infinite stars last week after getting shitty boots 3 weeks in a row
so maybe your luck will finally snap too
elder berry
man i wish i could get a R3... hell even a R2. My luck has been TRASH with corruption
modern brook
Blizzard is making it very clear they dont want me to play
bitter venture
So how do you know when you should use shield block over ignore pain
exotic spoke
Are you taking physical blockable damage (hint - this is almost a yes) then you should block
plush prism
Ignore is for things like breaths
exotic spoke
And then with extra rage you use IP
plush prism
Big spells etc
modern brook
If ur asking like "what do I block" the answer is in raid auto attacks and certain tank busters
And in m+ basically everything unless ur in mother load, where it's only most things
Note I havent tanked the new dungeons so fuck if I know how the damage spread looks in there
bitter venture
Alright then I’ve been mainly doing ignore pain in my keys today.
warm plinth
That's bad.
exotic spoke
^^
warm plinth
And honestly it's the #1 mistake that new prot warriors make
exotic spoke
In keys most of the damage is blockable and you need to use block
modern brook
Yeah that's why ur dying
And if ur not dying that's why ur healer has to drink every pull
plush prism
Yeah, shield block is huge. If you're new to tanking, a good rule of thumb is always have 1 charge of SB + the rage to use it available, but also try to keep its uptime generally high with the second charge. This basically means don't waste rage on IP if you don't need to
hallow phoenix
But my parse
modern brook
Hes got a strong point there
hallow phoenix
And in m+ I don't believe king mechagon does any melees. It's just that plasma pulse thing
mortal brook
p1 is magic
exotic spoke
Block for more Shield slam damage
mortal brook
wasnt me, was eyir. this whole situation sucks tbh
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @mortal brook
mortal brook
WHOA
hallow phoenix
I think wowanalyzer supports using block for damage if you cast SS 2+ times in one block
And doesn't count it against you
mortal brook
prob only if you have BFI right
hallow phoenix
I don't think so
mortal brook
no wait that wouldnt matter
hallow phoenix
Free damage is free damage
warm plinth
IIRC there's a little like...info circle or something on that particular section that tells you what is considered a "good" block and a "bad" block.
tame garden
Toxic eyir
undone sun
$report
warm plinth
$nobully
mortal brook
wooden radish
@warm plinth what’s up Pinky
exotic spoke
Yeah steve! Why’d you say Eyir sucks?
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @exotic spoke
warm plinth
Just wrecking visions and watching Altered Carbon 🙂
exotic spoke
Heard great things about it
warm plinth
I'm on episode 4; it's really good so far
modern brook
Altered Carbon sucks
modern brook
More like Faltered Carbomb (of a show)
exotic spoke
Wow
modern brook
💃
mortal brook
Can we trust their judgement tho based on that pfp
modern brook
👀
mortal brook
I think so
modern brook
♥️
undone sun
I think no
stark scroll
undone sun
That's me
exotic spoke
Yeah that seems legit
mortal brook
Ed edd eddy is anime?
undone sun
Yes
exotic spoke
Yes
stark scroll
Calling the quality that is Ed Edd and Eddy anime smh
tame garden
Doesnt anime just mean Japanese cartoon
undone sun
There are arguments, but the technicality is yes
stark scroll
Weebs tend to get really annoyed if you call anime cartoons though
mortal brook
Or call their waifus creeper pillows but i mean thats language for ya
wooden radish
@ionic fern the US stock market has lost 12% of its value this week because of the corona virus. can you provide investing advice for this market volatility that is currently based on investor fears? thanks in advance!
chilly brook
Just buy stock and wait ez clap
(I have 0 IQ on investing follow my advice at your own risk)
mild ore
chilly brook
Although it's irrelevant tbh
wooden radish
chilly brook
You knowing the k value in game won't change anything in terms of how you play
undone sun
Only relevant if you're doing calculations
chilly brook
But even then it has basically no relevance to you gameplay wise
exotic spoke
Sigh
modern brook
@chilly brook 
hallow phoenix
isn't breath higher DPS
hallow phoenix
And wouldn't void just be ready to use again
sharp night
so you're literally losing 75% of value
warm plinth
It's the CD + 30% but it's the base CD, not the reduced one.
lusty wedge
I have a 435 blood urchin and a 430 edicts am I still using that with keys?
hallow phoenix
What are your other trinkets
hallow phoenix
Ok but if those are your only two trinkets then ofc you're going to use them
Dragon scale, rezan, gore, vita are all good though and I would drop your EP trinkets the moment you get a 460+ of those
lusty wedge
kk ty
broken stratus
hey guys, i tried ineffable truth, does this not affect shield block recharge or last stand?
warm plinth
Should affect anything but it's not a very good corruption.
broken stratus
it only seems to reduce cd on shield slam and clap
when it proc, my sheild block recharge still is like 10s
same with last stand
warm plinth
We're talking about the one that does like 30/50% cooldown reduction for 10 seconds right?
warm plinth
So all that means is that over 10 seconds, you're just getting 13 seconds or 15 seconds off of your CDs
Instead of 10
So it's not like a sudden proc that instantly reduces CD
inland silo
It also works with am so you get a decent extra chunk off your big cds
warm plinth
It doesn't really work with AM. It affects the cooldown of the spell, and AM reduces whatever the current CD is. It doesn't synergize or anything.
broken stratus
dont really feel its worth it for the corruption
warm plinth
It's a pretty lackluster corruption.
It's like 1 proc per minute, so you're getting 3-5 seconds off of your CDs once per minute over 10 seconds
broken stratus
even glimpse of clarity feel better even though its still not that good
warm plinth
Yeah glimpse is the instant proc, but still not a great corruption for us. Especially compared to IS in raids or TD in M+
inland silo
It does. It’s been tested with arms and outlaw rogue. Ineffable also affects things that lower your cds
I assume it’s simming correctly with prot now since that was discovered so it’s still bad
But that’s how it works
warm plinth
So, for example
if you have a proc active
then every 10 rage you spend you get 1.3/1.5 seconds off instead of 1?
inland silo
Yea
warm plinth
Ah
left hatch
thats still really bad thought
warm plinth
Yeah I guess that's better, but still pretty meh. Other stuff is just too good.
left hatch
before that its still reducing your cds by less than 1 IP
and even with that added its about the same
warm plinth
Yeah, nothing really significant
left hatch
im too lazy to math it
but id stake my reputation as a new DH that t1 haste proc reduces cds more
than IF
broken stratus
glimpse sounds good on paper, but it doesnt work that well when i try it last night
left hatch
at best you'll get a free TC of SS once a minute
broken stratus
when it proc and i use shield slam, but my next cast refreshed shield slam
inland silo
That’s how it is for arms yea. Expedient and ineffable basically do the same thing just expedient does it better
warm plinth
Surprisingly this belt has outsimmed a lot of shit for havoc lol
Mostly because of FG
exotic spoke
I was more excited to try out ineffable truth than glimpse of clarity. Hard to try either if you don’t get them
warm plinth
Imagine getting corrupted gear
exotic spoke
^
left hatch
speaking of FG its absolutely mind blowing to me that an AZ piece thats 40 ilvls higher. is only a 1% dps increase in st, cleave and aoe because the new one is lacking FG
:l
warm plinth
😂
I'm just terrified for my 3rd random because if I don't get FG then it probably won't be worth equipping
warm plinth
🤢
broken stratus
what is fg?
grand spruce
tanked a few bosses in nya hc today. happy to say no one died due to my tanking 😄
warm plinth
Woo!
grand spruce
would sphere be good this week with necrotic for kiting?
left hatch
sphere minor is always good
grand spruce
right now im using aegis, null and formless
so was thinking to swap one of those out
left hatch
null
is not worth it outside of very high keys
and unless you're in the habit of pulling stuff into boss fights lucid and/or cns > aegis
basically if you arn't in combat with 6+ targets for the majority of the dungeon its not worth using
grand spruce
so formless, lucid and sphere are better options?
left hatch
yes
grand spruce
i never thought of that combo. thank you 🙂
left hatch
np
brazen lion
Any tips on how to do more damage in dungeons? I'm only getting around 30k overall.
Is the answer just pull bigger?
red dock
Do you guys struggle with the guy that shields himself in visions of org?
warm plinth
Even if you don't break the shield, it really doesn't do much sanity damage
Like 45 or some shit
red dock
CoF?
warm plinth
Worry about LoSing the void torrent behind the stump; that's really the only actual worrisome part of the fight
left hatch
Crucible of Flame
red dock
oh duh
warm plinth
And even then only if you're using daredevil
Before I started 4 masking I just ate it to the face because it was faster 😂
left hatch
and 30k sounds low even with just single group pulls @brazen lion
are you running VoP major? are you popping DS and VoP on cd, are you defaulting hitting devastate when better abilities are on cd, are you running right talents etc
missing any of those things can tank your dps
cause like... you can easily do 30k+ in ST
without corruptions
brazen lion
I think I only do like 25k on bosses 😐
I think I cast devastate a bit too much maybe then
left hatch
this def isn't a major issue, but no wep ench
brazen lion
ah I just got that last night before I logged off
left hatch
also str in numbers on helm is pretty poo
heed my call isn't massive but its better
your talents and stuff look good though, and with your corruptions you def can be doing 50k easily
so its probably either sitting on VoP/DS
or hitting deva when other stuff is on cd
last i looked at # of casts in a run deva was a fraction of the other major things
brazen lion
its probably that then my deva casts look about the same as my SS casts across a dungeon
left hatch
yah irrc SS for me was like double the amount of casts
and had 4x more Claps
this was also a month ago that i checked though so... take that with a grain of salt
brazen lion
Should i use Filthy Transfusion on my helm or IF now I've gone from a 445->465 shield
left hatch
if all else fails, you can use Hekili addon
as kinda training wheels to learn a rotation
its not fantastic but it can sorta train that muscle memory to avoid deva at all costs
id still run IF tbh but thats feelycraft
oblique garnet
I mean this week is kinda bad since you spend alot of time kiting
left hatch
fair
50k on a better week or easier keys that you can kill before you have to kite
and excluding Workshop cause thats just a boss rush
hallow phoenix
I just realized workshop in MDI would be the most boring thing ever
hopefully they dont put it in the pool
sick sentinel
50k is pretty low
ornate ferry
i can barely stay at 20k on single target..
grand drum
I want the next mdi to only be all the past seasonal affixes
cinder roost
Just run Devastator instead of BV you won't hit Devastate and you'll gain ST 🙂
sterile mantle
trying to figure best chest piece
warm plinth
Callous is one of our worst two traits so pretty much anything is going to beat it assuming the other traits are the same
warm plinth
Yeah go with the left one.
sterile mantle
i thought so
cinder roost
You have HoD on that piece
onyx vessel
Callous 
reprisal
warm plinth
@sterile mantle do you have 25+ corruption after resistance?
sterile mantle
18
warm plinth
Ah
onyx vessel
F
cinder roost
Put more corru !
warm plinth
Are you using formless or warden?
warm plinth
Yes, there are. But only two that are usable by tanks.
warm plinth
Can't dodge/parry/block during Iris cast/channel though
sick sentinel
^
onyx vessel
Wtb 4second aoe stun
sick sentinel
Hello ghash
sick sentinel
Bad
warm plinth
Why is that sir?
onyx vessel
warm plinth
I hear that lucid essence gives leech
sick sentinel
🤤
undone sun
😡
onyx vessel
.....
sick sentinel
Thyme just lurks to beat me with a broom when i show up
warm plinth
I wasn't saying you should use it for leech Thyme
I was just stating a fact.
And satisfying Hawgz's need for leech talk
sick sentinel
He’s giving me a reason to live ok
warm plinth
I'm a diplomat