I usually pulled 3, but will do 4 from now on
#protection
maiden ravine
yeah, I'll do it to not have to fight 2 more zerkers
hallow phoenix
I skip him
I always bring a pet class or a dh that knows what they're doing to KR. Makes zerker packs easy
Zul felt pretty easy this week too
Compared to how I remember him on fortified
light ledge
still the hardest part of kr tho
hallow phoenix
For sure
Had an hpal and we used lust, last stand, two demo shouts, some spell reflects, sac and wings
But it never felt like the damage was out of control, just an expensive mob
17 KR for reference
Didn't feel like I was going to fall over if my healer didn't get a crit streak
Also the mechagon azerite chest sims way higher for me than any other chest in the game
Is clockwork heart just that good for damage? Bloodmallet does not rank it highly
Oh it does have it ranked high now, weird
sick sentinel
zul scales quadratically in higher keys
did a 20 kr
one shot with demo and avatar up
did half my hp
with all cds and me spamming the hell out of IP
high sierra
Hello guys
Do you know where I can find good routes for 10+ ?
Or maybe a streamer or youtuber to watch, I'm not really sure what to do with all those obelisks
hallow phoenix
r/CompetitiveWoW has a weekly m+ thread with people sharing routes
mild ore
Do damage buffs like demo shout with booming voice increase reflect damage?
hallow phoenix
Some of the routes are good, and I would argue almost all are a good place to start
high sierra
Got kicked from a 10 FH cause I didn't run with the 3rd obelisk boss to the last one, how am I supposed to know 😞
sick sentinel
run the 3rd obelisk?
hallow phoenix
I haven't seen any posted
sick sentinel
You don'te ven run the 3rd obelisk to bsos
it's a huge waste of time
lmao
boss*
@high sierra those guys are ignorant
you kill it where it stands
hallow phoenix
That's ooze man right? By shark boi
sick sentinel
no
high sierra
Yes
sick sentinel
You don't move him
hallow phoenix
You right it is hero breaker
high sierra
Heal kicked me after telling me I was supposed to run him on the bridge all the way to the last obelisk
sick sentinel
you don't even do the last obelisk
lmao
you do it with boss
those guys are actual buns
hallow phoenix
I run third obelisk to harlaan
high sierra
Like we click on the portal and we pop on the pack next to the last obelisk, which looked dangerous to me
sick sentinel
you don't run to harlan
hallow phoenix
I do
hallow phoenix
How do you do it
sick sentinel
You kill it, rotate cds and externals with it
standing still makes it die 10x faster
and than one person goes out
while everyone mounts to boss
then he pulls boss
it'll drag you out of the realm
mages, rogues, hunters and such can all do it
a tank can do it too
are these wrists a meme ?
those are garbage
hallow phoenix
Do you just res them
hallow phoenix
If a tank does it
sick sentinel
oh
yes if a tank does it, you pull ravager pack with boss
so ravagers go off and they brez you
then you start boss
hallow phoenix
I will try this
sick sentinel
hunters, mages, warlocks rogues
all can do it
because they can skip them
without pulling combat
hallow phoenix
Does pulling any boss pull everyone out?
hallow phoenix
Thanks I didn't know that, that's neat
marble cipher
So, the one that goes out runs all the way to the boss, trying to survive all packs at boss if he can't skip them, and then pulls boss and dies/invis/feign while party is waiting on the boss' platform as to not aggro anything?
@sick sentinel
maiden ravine
Rip the paladin, warlock, shaman group haha
hallow phoenix
Invis pot :^)
maiden ravine
People stopped buying those with awakened
light ledge
swiftness pot is the new business
maiden ravine
I'm a fan of doing it things the way it's least likely to get screwed up even if it takes a bit longer
Like not doing the spotter strat for example, that seems like hell on Earth, but I already hate dodging puddles constantly
hallow phoenix
Bolstered spotter 😍
maiden ravine
I'd probably die that week so many times trying it
mild ore
do damage buffs increase spell reflect damage
hallow phoenix
I don't think so
Can't confirm but I have never noticed reflect damage increasing when I'm in, say, avatar
The mob takes damage from their own spell, which is not a warrior spell so it shouldn't benefit from avatar or booming voice
maiden ravine
I want my cloak proc. Can it be Tuesday yet
daring sable
humming black dragon sclae vs rezan eye, thoughts?
maiden ravine
Why not both
hallow phoenix
Ilvls and what are your other options
daring sable
want u use raden hc farming it rn
need to replace one, leaning towards humming cuz socket
hallow phoenix
I'd use the wrathion trinket
It's also quite easy to get a mythic ilvl scale
So you should try for that
daring sable
mh good hint ! ty
grand spruce
Any suggestions which trinkets to use for M+ among this lot?
hushed cobalt
i like torment, does ~6-7% of my damage throughout a m+, and dragonscale. but i just got a vita
grand spruce
Also is ilvl still king in terms of tanking or are using the item with these god awful corruptions?
mortal brook
Im happily wearing a world quest blue thats giving me a huge TD yup
lyric zinc
Is it doable to handle 53 corruption boys?
mortal brook
Depends on content and comfort. Sure you can np, but weigh against the dmg and inconvenience of thing
grand spruce
so TD is the better corruption? or its EV still?
mortal brook
Td pulls far ahead on any non single target, dps per corruption
hushed cobalt
475 shield boe with rank3 VR sounds tempting, til i get a shield in the chest
sick sentinel
td still extremely good on st for tanks
mortal brook
Aye
left hatch
yeh td is about on par with EV in ST
and way better in aoe
so the 'ideal' rn is TD and fill in gaps with gushing wounds
mortal brook
Gw solid af. Too bad its only 1 rank. Makes it so rare
high sierra
10k po to reforge azerite traits? did blizzard take heavy drugs or?
high sierra
yes
high sierra
I have to spend 10k now
high sierra
well, I don't have spare helmets,chest and shoulders like everybody else
can't do visions in prot
sick sentinel
yes you can
high sierra
can't do pvp in prot
high sierra
yeah, you don't play on french servers I guess
they don't take you for low cr games if you don't have 3k2 xp, 465 ilvl and a real spec to do 2v2
sick sentinel
Most of those players don'te ven have those stats
high sierra
yup, but do they care ? nah
same goes for m+
when I get refused for a +8 by a guy with 240 rio
the french wow community is heavily retarded
that's why everybody hates us on this game I suppose
mortal brook
I have hit 1.8k and also done 5 mask full as prot. Either are doable frend
But yeah ots def not in the culture
high sierra
5 mask full as prot ? o_o
mortal brook
Next week is amother tank pvp nerf. Small but even less ideal
Yeah dude. Health scales down for tank specs
high sierra
hmmm
mortal brook
Divinefield cleared his 5 mask full last week. Org will be a joke next weeks cloak
Nerfclap should have a vod of his fullclear this week
mortal brook
Doh. My mistake
high sierra
I guess since he has the whole talent tree, it might be better
mortal brook
No vods from mine
high sierra
that and the fact that his fury gear is insane
high sierra
I'm 2 points away from the last talent
it's gonna be a huge boost
I see him use a loooot of cons but do I need all that for a 1 mask full clear?
short blaze
how much ilvl should you have to full clear the visions without masks? im at 453 atm, and research is at sanity per rare kill
mortal brook
Nah, esp with cloaks so high
Sanity per rare kill should pet you full clear
I got my first socket today :D
short blaze
last time i tried doing it solo it felt so slow and i only did two zones, much smoother when playing in a group
mortal brook
Markup to post link without preview. < And > Around link
high sierra
like that?
at the beginning he just rush into the first packs with some sort of pot
but no aggro 😮
mortal brook
Oh
Look at his appearance. Hes using the diminished radius food
One of the new foods for vision
high sierra
ho damn didn't know what
nocturne marlin
hi guys, is it correct to spam TC in single target fights too?
mortal brook
Idk, the vision food is in its own section of cooking. Ghastly ghoulash maybe? Cant remember
high sierra
Baked Voidfin
gonna stack some of those to try my first 1 mask clear
can't be that hard
mortal brook
Glgl
Sanity reduc mask is the worst of all 5
Use it to get easier masks then run with those
mortal brook
Probably is a toy
mortal brook
unbric is a heck. did you go with that half sanity mask on?
if you did, I'd encourage going straight to shaw, since he gives a mask as well, which you can then use shaw's mask to much more easily full clear than with the half sanity mask
cunning briar
Quick question wow classic related tooth of eranikus or axe of deep wounds for pre raid bis ranking (As an Orc)
mortal brook
Hit is your best friend as an orc warrior, the tooth of eranikus has a bit lower dps but has +1% hit so weigh that against the hit gear you already possess to see how you wanna balance your hit cap
quartz falcon
Is the nzoth trinket any good?
mortal brook
if you have planned use for it, for sure. esp in raid.
quartz falcon
Imma keep this socketted badboi then
mortal brook
then weigh it against what you're giving up as an alternative
nimble cosmos
congratulations
high sierra
give me back orgrimmar please
elder oasis
what is my ebst pick for prot in m+?
nimble cosmos
umbrick would be much less bad if leaden foot didnt exist
nimble cosmos
i hate it with a passion, its the least fun of all the affixes for visions, even worse than the smhuck circle
mortal brook
org is DEF the better one, especially if you're going solo
by a wide margin
which is silly
nimble cosmos
the only "bad" part about org is rexxar can an absolute bitch to deal with if you go with 5mask, since he eats sanity for breakfast
mortal brook
def. hitting the trap is like a 400 hit with mask up
nimble cosmos
the problem is the boars, their KB charge into -80 sanity missles can fuck off
all hail aoe stuns and TD procs
mortal brook
def gotta take those one by one. TD proccing early and causing more to spawn can be a mess lol
nimble cosmos
probably smarter than my usual see big mob hit big mob mentality
foggy fractal
For a tank, who's currently doing fine on 12s and 13s, what's the next step for easily clearing a 15? Do I need Urchin?
high sierra
you don't as everybody told me
if you need urchin to do a +15, there's a problem somewhere else
I look at raider.io and I see some prot warrs doing 17s with 2 haste trinkets, so it's not a necessity for you too I'm sure
high sierra
^
strong forum
👀
high sierra
ouch
foggy fractal
Perhaps it's my essences then. What's the go-to?
sweet summit
vop major cns/lucid/aegis/sphere/void(if u need resistance) minors
sick sentinel
Doing high keys or playing with 40+ corruption, CnS gains a lot of value and CnS is very consistent where vision is based on procs and you sometimes won't have it when you need it
Lucid also fills in that gap if you have planned pulls that you must have an external like that for 40 seconds
Undying gains value from the obelisks, you also can fill in gaps with mitigation drops stacking it with shell trinket
VoP isn't the go to all
shut summit
He didn't say high keys tho, said trying to clear 15s
sick sentinel
Doesn't hurt to practice using essences generally played in high keys, and all those give benefits in ways even in smaller keys
shut summit
Vop can be played in high keys fine too
shut summit
Why do you need undying for obelisks
sick sentinel
I never said you need them
I said it gains value
and helps bridge gaps of mitigation drop
??????????
shut summit
The tankbuster doesn't kill on a 22 so it's useless
sick sentinel
I'm not even talking about tankbuster
shut summit
Then wtf obelisk does it gain value on
sick sentinel
fear, having 8 stacks and just mitigating away if you don't have some sort of bop to same time. Mitigation drops with it and helping save time by just allowing yourself to tank everything
having it for different pulls
large hard hitting pulls
High dr for casts that need to go off
external rotations for stuff like zul also
sweet summit
you most likely do not need that for 15s
shut summit
Yea only thing I can see being worthwhile for is zul fortified and even that I think isn't really necessary
And when someone is asking for 15s that's not really needed
sick sentinel
Like I said, every one of those has its uses
and I don't care
I'm saying
VoP
isn't the go to
I'm not even referring to that
statement
shut summit
guys asks about 15s
guy responds with not wrong info
you talk about shit in high keys
say you don't care
shut summit
Ok so you randomly mention saying vop isn't goto, got it
wind garden
I don’t have enough popcorn.
sick sentinel
What are you talking about
you directed my statement after I said it
even though it wasn't meant for him
so of course I would respond to you about that statement, since you're directing your conversation towards it
?
tender phoenix
Is Rezan's Gleaming Eye or Jes' Howler better to use?? as I do have Humming Black Dragonscale on asking as i was wondering if i should have more haste buffs or stick with vers
foggy fractal
I'm in the same spot! I'm using Rezans + Humming atm, but idk if Jes' is worth using instead of the humming
echo sage
Hey guys can I ask you what is the stat priority for prot war? is the one from the guide on wowhead right?
tender phoenix
@foggy fractal im gonna guess if its harder content take jes other then that rezan
sick sentinel
rezan is still better
hallow phoenix
Ishmael the icyveins and I assume wowhead guides are very good
I usually prefer icy veins tho
mild canopy
a question, in 15+ fortified kings rest stone with a mediocre healer how can we stand against zul?
rotate cds with spell reflection?
stark scroll
Pretty much, get one of your dps to taunt off and take a hit to give you chance to get topped off/get a cd back if needed
obtuse meadow
whats our statweight
mortal brook
there is no blanket statweight. they change every single time you put on a new piece of gear
obsidian mica
how good/bad is lingering sporedpods defensively, if you have no defensive alternative? (i.e. queens, or ashvane)
sweet summit
obsidian mica
okay...
sweet summit
stat proc trinkets are better defensively
west kayak
I just full cleared HV Stormwind. How do y'all handle Umbric with Leaden Foot?
mortal brook
Jump move pause, or stutter step, or los until his cast runs out and he comes to you
Toys placed wyere he ports to can cheese his ports well but i wouldnt recommend.
warm plinth
The last part is suboptimal because it’s a 30 second channel though
I just walk a few steps, stop, walk a few steps, stop. It’s obnoxious but really all you can do.
Heroic leap when it’s available
sterile mantle
Man that proc on wrathion weapon sucks...kinda sad lol
soft prairie
its not superbad, slightly high corruption for what it does, but for me its just under TD rank 1 in dmg in m+
obtuse meadow
Which M+ trink is bis?
warm plinth
Rezan's Gleaming Eye
outer dew
lucid hamlet
I have vita charged trink (haste socket) and dragon scale but I have been using the platinum armor trink fro mech on higher keys bc I feel squishy should I not be using it? I feel my dps is lower sometimes bc of it
warm plinth
It's literally the worst trinket in the game
warm plinth
Even with full stacks, the armor you get is so puny that it really doesn't do anything.
left hatch
and ignoring that were already the highest baseline armor in the game
so the issue of stacks vanishing aside its way less helpful than say... armor on BrM
vita + scale are a better combo defensively by a longshot
mortal brook
vita is big budget
stark scroll
@west kayak Draenic Living Action potion gives you a get out of jail free card for one side/cast
west kayak
@stark scroll Thank you. I did the run/stop/run and got to him better the next few times.
ruby nexus
gutripper or heed my call?
ionic fern
Gutripper.
mortal brook
gutripper should be ahead on ST. and its uptime during execute phase is good value on raid fights
marble cipher
Also gutripper in M+ context? I think I simmed aoe and HMC pulls ahead if you don't care for raids (ST)
potent anvil
The problem with HMC is that it can break CC unexpectedly which could cause a potential wipe. Just something to consider, if you organize CC and you randomly taunt a mob out and HMC procs on it.
lapis pond
As im leveling doing dungeons im trying to be critical of my performance so i can practice and get better. What's the best metric of a good run for a tank?
left hatch
while leveling? did you die
theres such a difference in gameplay and damage profiles between leveling and M+ that its almost impossible to have a good metric of your gameplay before you get to something challenging (and even more so before you have all your abilities)
for now just follow the icy-veins guide for the rotation
since thats the bread and butter of rage gen, and where the majority of your survivability will come from
nova rover
@shut summit Howdy, quick question, I see you running devastator vs booming voice, any reason for it?
carmine wadi
Guys which essences are you using in M+ for 15-17 keys?
I had a look at some warrios and there are some who using C&S as major etc.
sweet summit
@nova rover devastator is better ST damage than BV
@carmine wadi VoP is usually the go to
dreamy fulcrum
TIL: leap resets CD of Taunt
lapis pond
@left hatch tks for reply. I know it's def not the same i guess i was looking for something other than not dying for an idea. I mean i think on the way to 60 i died once and almost always >70% dmg taken. Guess that's good enough for now lol
left hatch
like i said its hard to jduge anything before your kit is complete which doesn't happen till lvl 100 with anger management
just focus on doing your rotation
carmine wadi
yeah Major yes but what minors do you like?
karmic elbow
Does prot really get 40% dmg taken increase in pvp?
warm plinth
50% afaik, it was just increased (though I think it's not in effect until Tuesday)
karmic elbow
its crazy
warm plinth
Been like that for quite a while now
karmic elbow
to prevent tanks from doing arenas?
warm plinth
To prevent tanks from being unkillable in any PvP
karmic elbow
does it affect only arena or guys in world pvp also get 50% dmg boost vs me?
warm plinth
Any PvP combat
karmic elbow
ok thanks. I was wondering why Im dying quickier as prot than other specs
now i know
nocturne marlin
Hi guys, very old nur gold question. Why is blood elf prot warri a very good race for top tanks? :)
*but
warm plinth
It's not. Race makes no meaningful difference.
nocturne marlin
Thats what i think about it ;)
zenith bronze
best stat priority for tanking M+?
sick sentinel
The only race worth swapping to is a panda
limpid pawn
Anyone here have brewmaster exp
craggy harness
cold cosmos
So just for giggles I decided to sim myself without a corruption cap. +19.5% single target damage at a cost of "only" 209 corruption
tame garden
Worth
cold cosmos
Something for me to look forward to as I get more corruption resistance at least >_>
marsh silo
where is the spell reflect details addon? is it on twitch?
warm plinth
It's not an addon; it's a weakaura
where is the spell reflect details addon? is it on twitch?
@marsh silo https://wago.io/IwPukH70B
marsh silo
ty
untold tulip
Do you guys WC on prot or switch to fury/arms?
tame garden
WC?
untold tulip
world quest and other solo content
sterile mantle
is lingering psyhic shell good?
untold tulip
yeah my bad
tame garden
you can do wc fine as prot
ruby nexus
Sometimes prot sometimes fury
tame garden
imo it will be faster as dps spec tho
untold tulip
looking to farm honourbound for maghar, but wondering if its gimping myself to do this stuff on prot
sterile mantle
anyones take on it?
runic cape
What is the beat essence setup to use in m+?
terse dragon
Lucid Major / Undying Major
I'd say Aegis minor only for Junkyard and FH
Null barrier for everything else
Strength of the warden minor is pretty good too
grizzled glen
^ I don’t know about all that
solid owl
west galleon
lmfao
eager rose
I got this at ilvl 465, its description states about 100,000 damage what are your guys thought for single target and aoe? And what are the multipliers on aoe scale damage or how do I find that formula?
Also I'm pretty sure demo shout affects it what about, crits, avatar, etc
Avatar with bastion of might I mean
Basically does increasing attack power dynamically affect the damage of this trinket or it is fixed?
Thanks everyone
left hatch
damage procs like that rarely scale with AP increases (so avatar is a no-go)
they do however scale off crit, verse and demo shout
its still not a very good trinket
warm plinth
@eager rose it won’t be affected by AP and it’s not affected by Demo Shout. Demo and Avatar are both whitelisted which means they are set to only affect warrior abilities. They don’t work on trinkets or any other effect that doesn’t come from your spell book.
daring marlin
red button is a worse merektha's
eager rose
Ok thanks everyone @left hatch @warm plinth
nocturne marlin
Can U tell my we some Tanks dont go for haste? Like this one https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/thrall/yodawarr
He goes dir vasality
*for
nocturne marlin
Ty
undone sun
stat weights can be different from person to person, sim it for damage
left hatch
^ was just a theory verse came ahead for him
when it comes to understanding what top io people are doing context is everything
and armory has 0
elder berry
rolled a random 475 chest and got desert guardians
dark lark
carmine wadi
Guys how do you tank zul in higher keys? I got deleted when we did him without BL yesterday :O
sharp night
rotate cds first and then run when you're out
hallow phoenix
To elaborate more on running, when you reach his max range he'll follow and start casting again. You can keep resetting his casts by moving away, waiting for him to catch up and start casting, and repeat
always hovering just outside his max range
mental scarab
How long is that range @hallow phoenix
sick sentinel
30yards something
hallow phoenix
Yeah about heroic leap range
Might be 40
Leaping back to the bridge and running a bit before stopping is enough
Just make sure your healer knows that you'll probably range them unless they follow
mental scarab
Okok
sharp veldt
Why do all protection guides say that crit is dps stat for prot warrior and even rads said that it's best one in m+ for dps in his youtube guide but I simmed 1,2,3,5,8 target 20 sec, 1min, 5min and in all cases haste simmed way above crit? Are sims not accurate then on crit? I have 1400 of both so they are completely balanced. I also decided to make BiS gear set and sim it in all the different conditions. Crit was still 3rd worst. In both cases(my gear and bis gear) I checked all 4 +secondary corruptions and crit was 3rd for my gear, 4th for bis gear. It was losing to +versa% when gear has 2x more crit on it.... What am I missing?
left hatch
guides are also weighing things with defense primarily in mind
and yah... like any dps sim it varies wildly depending on what you currently have
if you already have a ton of haste then things like crit and verse edge up considerably
sharp veldt
icy veins and wowhead that are pinned here
sharp veldt
Critical Strike is an excellent DPS-increasing stat.
undone sun
secondary stats are pretty close to begin with
sharp veldt
this doesnt sound excellent
undone sun
just because it's not top doesn't mean it's bad
sharp veldt
I am starting to think that yoda might actually be going for optimal build for both survivability and dps in m+
+versa% is performing insanely well dps wise and it's obviously the best stat against magic damage too
left hatch
obviously is a very strong word
haste = more ip = more uptime of a 40% damage reduction for magic damage
vs. 1 verse gem doesn't even give you .5% reduction
sharp veldt
versa also increases IP size
left hatch
and even in the most magic intensive dungeons more than 1/2 of it is still physical damage lul
undone sun
point is, verse is very good yes, but haste is still just as competitive
left hatch
and i think the larger takeaway is unless you're pushing the very highest content thats possible
sockets and enchants are a trivial component of your survivability and output
and corruptions are entirely rng based
if you think you know better than theorycrafters that make the guides thats great but
i promise you they've put a lot more thought into this than a few sims and some napkin math
and are much more talented players than the vast majority of us
sharp veldt
napkin math? I literally asked if there's something wrong with sims which there always might be. What if free revenge procs are not counted there or something. What's wrong with asking for sources and questions? You think that blindly following guides is a way to go? Wowhead brewmaster guide last season was extremely out of date after 2 weeks and it never got fixed. Guide writer himself even didn't follow the advice he gave anymore but he never made changes.
sharp veldt
came here for feedback and help but instead got told to just not think and copy-paste guide
left hatch
no....
you were told why the guide said that
and why your sim had it for less
-_-
strong forum
The guide is updated and maintained by our Theorycrafter and Sim APL writer @ionic fern right here in this discord
Haste will almost always sim higher on multi target than crit
strong forum
ye IV
Crit has the possibility of simming higher on ST, whereas haste gets vastly stronger on AOE, not saying crit doesnt have huge value in it, its just haste gets bigger value
left hatch
to even prove your point that sims are super personal, whatever best in slot mythic thing you constructed said crit was 3rd for you, i did 3 droptimizer pulls and it has it just ahead of haste
as my best behind weapon dps
every little thing from your essences to your trinkets to your corruption (especially corruption) impacts your weights
so to reiterate what i said in the beginning the guide is a general guideline with general survivability in mind
and for output, statweights can and will change for literally any change to your character, even gaining a neck rank
strong forum
people that are gemming / enchanting vers are doing it to reduce dmg taken and have bigger scaling on trinkets and essences for both purposes. As it is still the most consistent defensive gain
left hatch
i think hes talking about yoda's armory having a singular verse corruption proc
which for ppl running that level of content you need more context than just 'thats what he logged out with'
he coulda been using it to counter Rixxa in ML, he coulda just raided
strong forum
i mean i see people gemming and enchanting vers, thats my conclusion on it, ill just stick to spamming haste
left hatch
^
im not hitting the level of content where gemming verse is going to make or break a run
left hatch
truth
strong forum
you'd have to play absolutely perfect and calculate dmg intake down to a decimal to blame it on sockets / enchants
literally a TAS bot run
would be needed to justify it
left hatch
after seeing TAS runs at GDQ now and then.. i wonder how far a TAS run in M+ could go
if they can speedrun mario it can def do wow stuff
strong forum
that'd be a feast for the eyes
however
due to multiple targets
i dont think its possible unless you make an incredibly good AI
with popping defensives and who and what to heal
since dmg intake varies
unless you can put everything to a set value
marble cipher
I use crit enchants cause I share my rings with fury spec 😂
left hatch
yah youd have to have an insane amount of groundwork ahead of time knowing whats the optimal time to stun/interrupt etc
ionic fern
@sharp veldt sims are fine. :)
You have to remember that when you sim you will also be simming with BL etc by default which you won't obviously always have etc.
Crit on top of being a solid DPS stat is also a solid defensive stat in m+ due to parrying. While yes this is RNG it's still considerable amount over the course of the dungeon due to multiple enemies attacking you at all times with mostly melee damage - it does not provide you anything vs magic damage tho so that's where vers is better.
Versatility is by no means a bad stat but as it provides you with passive DR/damage etc but in general it's outshined by what Haste/crit offer in m+ due to the majority of damage being blockable/parryable.
When simming for stat weights you have to remember that they are very "personalized" - some people might have a ton of haste in which case other stats will pull ahead, other people might have a ton of vers in which case crit would pull ahead for example, it all comes down to that your stats currently are.
For example the sims you did would be on my char:
8 targets -20s
8 targets -60s
8 targets -5m
graceful pine
any merit in using Indomitable for more Twilight Devastation damage? :p
left hatch
the damage you gain from it is pretty inconsequential for the survivability loss
also a lower cd on LS gives you more dps from TD anyway
terse hollow
what is the best weapon enchant for prot warrior is quick navi still the way to go or is force multiplier better or naga scale?
left hatch
force multiplier is usually what to go for
exotic spoke
Hi prot qtpies
warm plinth
👋
potent anvil
nocturne marlin
i often forget my ap cry. do u guys know a weakaura for this?
nocturne marlin
how is it calling in english? 🙂
nocturne marlin
thx alot
warm plinth
It will show up if you or anyone in your group is missing it
silver crane
healers say i`m squishy. what can i do to improve that, gear wise
warm plinth
If healers are saying you're squishy, it's probably nothing to do with your gear, frankly.
silver crane
oh ?
warm plinth
If a prot war is seen as squishy, it's a gameplay problem 90% of the time
Either you're not prioritizing the right things, not using CDs like you should, etc.
silver crane
oh, i do the rotation as per wowhead and several tutorials on youtube 🙂
Hmmm ok. so gear wise shouldnt be a problem for warrior
warm plinth
Not really. Like...having Bastion in M+ is pretty big since it basically turns Avatar into another CD, but it's not required for you to not fall over or anything.
another defensive CD*
Which spell do you prioritize between Shield Block and Ignore Pain?
silver crane
ignore pain
warm plinth
There's your problem right there.
Very common mistake, very big for your survival.
Ignore Pain is a supplemental damage smoothing ability. It should be used when possible but not at the expense of Shield Block.
silver crane
understood , i`ll try more to use shield block
warm plinth
Remember that Last Stand provides Shield Block's defensive effect as well. So you can do Shield Block x3, Last Stand, Shield Block x2 if you need long periods of Shield Block (always use all of your Shield Block charges before using Last Stand to give your SB a chance to refresh)
ionic fern
*only with Bolster talented.
warm plinth
Right, which you should have talented or we'll 
warm plinth
Mwahi living the dream over here
quartz axle
#thedream
warm plinth
Is that with all 475s Mwahi?
untold tulip
are traits worth +5 ilvl?
ionic fern
Head unfortunately is still 450
untold tulip
had to get rid of a bastion for ilvl increases
warm plinth
The only trait that's really worth ilevel is your first Deafening Crash
silver crane
Thanks a lot for the tips. i`ll change the playstyle ! thanks a million
warm plinth
Sure thing
leaden grail
has anyone done a 5 mask full clear as prot before? I'm thinking about running devastator for more ST, not entirely sure if it's worth
warm plinth
I'd be surprised to see a prot war already having a 5 mask clear.
leaden grail
cant be that hard, can it? 4 masks was fairly easy
warm plinth
Adding Long Night is huge
leaden grail
i know that the 50% less sanity thing is kinda hard though
tardy basalt
Long night is like double the difficulty
warm plinth
Yep
More than double probably, since you also still get the 25% increased health/damage on the mobs as well
tardy basalt
Long night on its own like like 3 masks
leaden grail
oof. maybe i'll just do 4 masks then :x
warm plinth
I think you'll be able to do it but I think it's gonna take a higher cloak level than it would for a DPS spec
R15 cloak has another 15% sanity loss reduction on it from what we can get now. That'll be huge for tank/heal specs I think
80% sanity loss reduction
leaden grail
ik but I kinda wanna do it before reaching 15. I think I'll try 5 masks next week when we get the mainstat proc
warm plinth
Yeah you should definitely try. Especially since next week I think we're gonna be drowning in vessels anyway so you might as well try
leaden grail
it's the same as the mage tower, I did all tank specs within 2 weeks of its release or something, even though it took me quite a few tries on the classes I was less familiar with
warm plinth
I'm going for 5 mask clear this week as well, but on my DH. Not playing prot this patch really :/
warm plinth
😏 😍
rare bolt
Potion luck is big for 5 masking, sanity potion still gives 100
warm plinth
Eh, I don't think potions are even required for 5-masking. They definitely help but it's more important to have a good route so you're maximizing elite extermination and also planning your gift procs well
warm plinth
Gift has an ICD of 1 minute from the last time it procced
You can proc it on demand after the ICD has passed
I use it to always be immune to the first trade district boss and to be immune to the miniboss before Shaw since they have unavoidable sanity drain
distant crystal
interesting
do you have like a weakaura for the icd
or you just keep a stopwatch running on the other screen
rare bolt
Alternatively, wait for tuesday because stormwind is fucking ass compared to org.
rare bolt
It is, but the fucking mage district
shut summit
@leaden grail ye i did 5mask with deva
just basically went full ST and let twilight dev do the rest
warm plinth
Oh you already did 5 mask Sense?
shut summit
ye
warm plinth
Where's the YT content 😠
shut summit
its on there
leaden grail
@shut summit so you went devastator?
shut summit
ya i did
grand spruce
Any suggestions on how high a key one can try if theyre 457 ilvl? i know theres a ton of variable involved ( gear, azerite, the key, the affixes, the comp etc etc etc)
leaden grail
alright then, I was about to start my 4 mask run, I'll try that and next week it is 5 masks
warm plinth
Should be able to do just about anything at 457 ilevel
Especially if your shield is high ilevel
grand spruce
460 ilgy shield
warm plinth
I hope they drown us in vessels starting next week so I can not be as hesitant on pushing
grand spruce
my concern is that my hp pool looks on the low side. its about 621k
warm plinth
I mean, your HP pool is only immediately relevant if you're getting 1-shot or near 1-shot
distant crystal
and your twilight deva dps >:D
grand spruce
hmm I see. no i dont recall getting one shot by anything. and ive got TD as well so theres that
so its mostly practice with with willing victims 😄
distant crystal
gearwise you should be fine
warm plinth
You shouldn't be getting 1-shot by anything. The spirit breaker lieutenant will hurt but shouldn't 1-shot you if you're using CDs/externals/not face-tanking it when you don't have anything
distant crystal
knowing dungeons and how to manage pulls will go a looong way
grand spruce
as an example, this is my current gear. i do know that dungeonslice may not be the most accurate.
leaden grail
overwhelming power loses stacks quicker when you take damage, so don't use it
leaden grail
? it says so in the tooltip
grand spruce
the only variant is swapping one of the trinkets to a 465 jes with a socket
warm plinth
It has a maximum stack loss of 2 per second. It's still well worth using
leaden grail
oh rly? brb reforging my shit
warm plinth
The only competitor it really has is Unstable Flames (in M+)
grand spruce
yeah i realzied i can swap crystalline carpace to a second unstable flames on the shoulders
analog zinc
CC & Gemhide is kinda crap
on pwar
cuz of high base armour
& the fact that the healing traits scale better
inland mesa
The vex chest has UF and OP on same row right? Which is better :(
inland mesa
And now I have to watch sense's video as I thought it was too early to 5 mask
inland mesa
It's on YouTube, ghash put the pic above but don't think it's a link
I saw an ele and unholy do it this week in guild
grand spruce
okay. and do the trinkets look okay? like i said, i can swap one out for a 465 Jes howler
grand spruce
These are my options:
analog zinc
prob alch + torment in a jar
grand spruce
okay. ill give it shot. Thanks all for the input
south lantern
lucid hamlet
???
strong forum
not a single tank is bad this tier
and every hurting ability can be covered by CDs / proper play
distant crystal
protadin is prob worst in M+ right now and it's still really god
prot warr is prob the worst in raid and it's also still good
strong forum
im assuming he means raid
and prot war is perfectly fine
every tank does the job just fine
there wont be a situation where playing a different tank will make or break a boss kill
distant crystal
eh
there's some situations where not having 1 bdk can be a problem
it'd still be doable but much much easier with access to grips
like hivemind and vex
prob carapace
spice yacht
okay guys
Im trying to get into high keys with my warrior
and I just tried shrine 17 and I get 2 shot by water blasts on start
hits me for like 480k
380*
how do you people survive that shit
strong forum
you just dont get hit
tame garden
almost every water blast should get kicked or cced or spell reflected
ruby nexus
Kick, reflect, stun fear
unkempt seal
u interrupt?
strong forum
interrupt it at all costs
tame garden
if you must tank a couple then shield wall
strong forum
then you should live
tame garden
your group needs to help
unkempt seal
if u have 2 melee u will never get a cast off
spice yacht
we did
strong forum
you need an interrupt rotation
strong forum
well then your group sucks
unkempt seal
if ur group cant interrupt in a 17 they aernt ready for 17s
spice yacht
Im aware of that
they were shit I got invited into it
but still
I see people tanking it somehow
strong forum
well then theres nothing to it
tame garden
they shield wall then
tame garden
youre dead if you take multiple casts with nothing up
strong forum
simple as that
its a group effort in higher keys
nobody tanks water blasts to the face
strong forum
nop
leaden grail
Do I get more damage out of CoF major if I refresh the DoT from the 2nd cast with the 3rd cast or do I just press it when it is ready?
leaden grail
so basically i get the max value by just pressing it every 30s
mortal brook
keeping it on cd, at least 8s apart yes
if you have a burst window, use during that
its amped by secondaries
strong forum
Not by mastery tho, keep that in mind
Nothing scales with mastery but your class abilities
leaden grail
do it get more ticks of the dot with haste?
strong forum
Probably
drifting lotus
Is there a sight that goes super in depth with tanking rotations and cooldowns? I feel like icy viens and wow head are super high level
oblique garnet
@warm plinth Warrior Late might return with some hot keys action
warm plinth
tardy warren
@drifting lotus just practice. Twitch has a few prot warriors that stream m+ regularly.
nocturne marlin
do u have the names of them?
oblique garnet
Naowh is one
sick sentinel
i think naowh is mostly on blood dk?
tardy warren
Naowh, awetosis, brutallstatic
sick sentinel
Radsgf
tardy warren
Trellsky is good but I think he's prot pally
sick sentinel
thx for the info, late^^
warm plinth
I think Trellsky is the one that just recently changed to DPS isn't he?
Or at least was talking about it because he got mad at something
tardy warren
@warm plinth haven't heard. I like watching him for routes etc buy honestly I don't watch twitch as often as I would like.
drifting lotus
He only switched for a bit
warm plinth
Oh okay
I'm not a big stream watcher myself, and can't watch Twitch at work anyway. So I prefer YT videos
tardy warren
Side story: I've had some issues pugging keys and missing timers by a couple seconds so I thought I was the problem so I spent a day pugging as dps and omg I'm not a bad tank after all. Stupid shit happening every pull Haha (not trying to sound arrogant, I'm not)
strong forum
Ye thats usually how it goes
lucid hamlet
Having a guild team + coms help ALOT
tardy warren
@lucid hamlet I'm trying to form one now for daytime and mornings
eager rose
Good morning everyone, is the tanking trinket from Nzoth one our best defensive trinkets?
sweet summit
this tbh
daring marlin
Braindead monkeys can play them
strong forum
Nzoth trinket is the best defensive trinket yes
eager rose
Cool thanks
rough egret
@shut summit you monster 5 masks gratz :D
shut summit
🙃
arctic sedge
Hello bois. Having trouble deciding between Echoing Void and Twilight Devastation. Both items have equal ilvls, and icy-veins is telling me Echoing Void is the best choice (for single target). What do you guys recommend?
warm plinth
Are you doing raids or M+?
arctic sedge
Both
warm plinth
And what ranks of EV/TD?
empty nacelle
@strong forum does that apply to m+? im not sure how the "while in nyalotha" part works on it
warm plinth
In M+, TD should easily win overall. But EV is I think stronger on ST? (you could sim to be sure)
warm plinth
Yeah, TD definitely in M+. I'm not 100% sure in raids though; you'd probably have to sim it.
arctic sedge
Yeah I'll do a quick sim
warm plinth
Both wouldn't be bad, if you can swing the corruption
arctic sedge
I land at around 73 corruption with both items on.
warm plinth
🤔 Do you have a super low cloak or other corrupted items?
arctic sedge
I also have Faralos from Heroic.
warm plinth
Which is how much corruption?
warm plinth
I'd cleanse Faralos probably and use both. Pretty sure EV T2 is better than Faralos anyway
warm plinth
38k what? DPS?
arctic sedge
yes
strong forum
@empty nacelle even outside of nyalotha it's the best defensive trinket
warm plinth
On ST sim?
arctic sedge
just a quick sim from raidbots
strong forum
EV t2 is about 3.5k dps
Faralos is 1.5k-2k dps
empty nacelle
cool thanks, now i can make my tank feel bad for rolling on nzoth sword for offspec over trying to get this trinket
arctic sedge
and how do i know if its tier 2 or what?
mortal brook
by its corruption level
strong forum
Or memorise values
T3 is 1%
T2 is 0.6%
T1 is lower than that, idk the amount
Prolly like 0.4% or smth
Or 0.35%
warm plinth
Yeah it's .4% for T1
strong forum
Ye
eager rose
How is cyclonic blast in mech trinket for us now? Can we upgrade the damage by increasing the ilvl of cards in trinket?
In raid
warm plinth
Depends on what you have (and it would be for raid DPS only). But you can't get higher cards anymore (except maybe by crafting via the blueprint) and even then it'd be capped at 435
eager rose
Ah k so maybe it looks bad these days then since I have a lot more options
warm plinth
Probably, yeah. There's no scaling for it anymore so it's pretty well capped.
eager rose
Ok thanks
severe oak
hey guys whats better dragonscale 475 or jes howler 455 ?
ionic fern
Irion's?
severe oak
= )
inland mesa
Scale
severe oak
ty mate
brisk kettle
is Heart of Darkness any good for M+?
still flame
So I'm not sure how but Wipefest has logs of my raid runs -- idk if Ive been logging them or not but this is awesome! Would anyone mind taking a quick look at some of my better or worst ones to help me improve? I posted in log review a little while ago but figured id also go to my fellow prot warriors 🙂 https://www.wipefest.gg/character/mooberrypie/Bonechewer/US
warm plinth
is Heart of Darkness any good for M+?
@brisk kettle Yes
stark scroll
I think wipefest is more of an entire raid thing, for individual performance wowanalyzer works for prot. Someone else will be logging, all these things use any logs from warcraftlogs.
chilly brook
I'm not familiar enough with the raid to actually provide you with much information
warm plinth
Same.
Here's the direct links to the logs though if anyone wants to take a peek:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/thcqwLdPV7Znfr6Q#fight=1&type=damage-done Wrathion Heroic
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/thcqwLdPV7Znfr6Q#fight=2&type=damage-done Maut Heroic
chilly brook
Like way too many devastate casts
strong forum
you should always use SS and TC on CD poochoo
chilly brook
Literally only devastate if everything is on cooldown.
strong forum
devastate is your FILLER you should use it the least
still flame
thats what i was trying to do i thought
stark scroll
https://www.wowanalyzer.com/report/thcqwLdPV7Znfr6Q/1-Heroic+Wrathion+-+Kill+(5:08)/Mooberrypie/standard
Will tell you what you're not using enough
chilly brook
34 casts of IP seems hella low too
still flame
for what?
strong forum
TC
chilly brook
Thunderclap
still flame
o
chilly brook
That's a lot of rage not gained
still flame
i see
chilly brook
Literally hit everything else that you possibly can (shield slam, thunderclap and revenge with a proc) before touching devastate
still flame
yeah thats what i thought i was doing. huh, guess not even close
chilly brook
Are you using weak auras? Or are you using the default UI?
strong forum
a better UI can help a ton
to see whats ready and whats not
and at the same time allow you to pay more attention to your surroundings
still flame
so I have on default UI with a WeakAuras that tells me what is the next optimal ability to use for maxdps
and then i also have a WeakAura that shows me the uptime remaining on SB/Av/IP
warm plinth
You really really want to get rid of that rotation WA
still flame
and i have a cooldown timer for the abilities on there
warm plinth
Those aren't even good to use for DPS, much less a tank that has other things to worry about.
still flame
ok
stark scroll
I'd switch to a more warrior centric wa like Luxthos or one of the others
warm plinth
Afenar's is pretty good too
still flame
Luxthos, I can look into that
strong forum
stark scroll
Aside from 'press your buttons more' which is generally something everyone can do, you're overlapping last stand with shield block a lot, you should avoid doing that
still flame
@strong forum do i copy the "RAW paste data" or the data thats in the box marked "1."
chilly brook
But regardless of what you choose refinining your UI to actually show you the information you need to see at just a glance is a huge step in the right direction
still flame
yeah, definitely
strong forum
either or works
strong forum
that can help ye
still flame
so it's easier to hit all those in succession
stark scroll
Idk what you're using now but the keys around wasd are good/popular
queen bough
Hi guys, what is the point of using lucid dreams on high keys? also how do you start a pack of mobs? I been told I get chunked at start almost every time.
chilly brook
If you have to ask what the point of using lucid dreams is then you shouldn't be considering it
still flame
ok, i'll look into updating my keybindings that way. i play on a laptop so i know E and Q are strafe but i dont really use those much
strong forum
lucid major only works if your literally make insanely large pulls around it
then you can utilize it to CONSIDER it being WORTH at all
chilly brook
Pop avatar charge in and shield block
queen bough
tbh I see streams and other prot are healing a bunch from its leech, but I don't find it useful myself at all
strong forum
cuz it isnt
chilly brook
You shouldn't get popped
queen bough
is it too late to pop avatar mid charge?
warm plinth
No
queen bough
thats what I've been always doing
chilly brook
Just pop it before
stark scroll
I'd swap a and d to strafe, you should never be using keys to turn, then bind the others. I use 1-5 qerfzxc as they're all easy for me to reach
queen bough
Ok
warm plinth
You can Charge, Avatar and Shield Block all at the same time. But if you're getting hit before Block is up, that would explain getting chunked.
chilly brook
Intercept is off gcd so just pop it before and use shield block mid charge
queen bough
then I gotta be safer and pop avatar first then
chilly brook
Nah just make sure shield block is up before you get hit
warm plinth
Yeah if you can't hit it fast enough, it's safer to pre-Ava
But two of those 3 spells are off the GCD so you can literally hit them all in like half a second
And be good
chilly brook
You don't have to have avatar for pulls but if its up use it
warm plinth
And always make sure if you're not going to have Avatar, you have enough rage to have Shield Block up right away (or at least with the rage from Intercept).
still flame
interesting Snafoo, i never thought about doing it like that
queen bough
is it a must to have IP and SB up at the start of a pack?
chilly brook
@still flame if you hold right click a and d are already strafe
No
It depends on the damage
But if its physical and you have the rage for both use both
queen bough
is SB capable of blocking all physical damage? or just melee attacks?
warm plinth
Most physical damage, unless it's a bleed
chilly brook
Always dump excess rage into IP unless you're in no danger of taking meaningful damage
warm plinth
There are exceptions, like the Spirit Breaker from the one lieutenant
stark scroll
Wasn't it on Kiljaeden we could block the meteors as they were physical? You can block stuff you wouldn't think you could
queen bough
I see prot warrs on streams doing tons of damage, like 40k-50k even without mass pulls. although not sure hot much of that is corruption damage
chilly brook
Most recent example I can think of is jaina
brisk rain
Odin spear in tov too
queen bough
but I do ~25k average normally, is that too low
strong forum
thats fairly low ye
chilly brook
40-50k on aoe is ez without corruption
brisk rain
Low
warm plinth
Depends on your corruptions and such but yeah that's low
queen bough
I been thunderclapping hard, unless I use the rage on revenge I'm not sure how else I could increase that
DH is nightmare , gets OT all the time
strong forum
use Demo and Avatar on CD
warm plinth
What talents are you running, just out of curiosity?
strong forum
use TC and SS on CD
generate and spend as much rage as you can
and start clapping
queen bough
wowhead M+ recoms
chilly brook
Probably wrong talents or bad cd management
queen bough
sorry what is TC and SS ?
queen bough
ah rhight
yeah I find TC to be usable between every spell, so I normally go something like SB->TC->SS->TC->IP->TC->Demo->TC etc
chilly brook
Uhhh
queen bough
try to fit TC between every spell
queen bough
I try to save demo when I rage starve, is that bad
strong forum
on CD
chilly brook
Very
strong forum
use it as soon as you can
warm plinth
Charge>Avatar>Shield Block>Thunder Clap>Demo Shout>Thunder Clap>Shield Slam>Thunder Clap, etc.
strong forum
every time
chilly brook
You're literally wasting rage and uptime of DS by not using it
queen bough
I see, wouldn't you rage capp straight away if you demo+avatar?
warm plinth
No
warm plinth
Demo+Avatar is 60 rage
chilly brook
You should never rage cap
queen bough
ah right
warm plinth
And you'll be using Shield Block and IP in there as well (both off GCD) so that'll use it
queen bough
does anger management reduce Demo cooldown?