well, sorta, they transform
#protection
maiden ravine
warm plinth
Yeah, the reveal darkness thing
We usually do eels at the end mid-boss
But since you're pugging that may not work out too great lol
warm plinth
No they don't
sharp night
eels don't do any affixes
maiden ravine
they don't?
warm plinth
Nope
maiden ravine
They do have a nasty debuff on me though right?
warm plinth
Yes
Or if you're not in range, the next highest threat that is
They put a stacking DoT on you
distant crystal
only if the next highest threat is in front of them
melee can chase behind and not get debuffed when you kite
maiden ravine
the shrine only has 2 small skips, but they're really good skips
warm plinth
Well, yeah. Though with their weird ass pathing you're bound to get a few stacks haha
Usually not much of a concern and you can take a decent number of stacks before you have to kite
Assuming you do them mid-boss anyway, since healer will have the healing buff at that point
maiden ravine
okay, I'm fairly confident I can do a shrine 13
gotta get that rio before it goes to necrotic/raging and I just dps all week
ionic fern
Necrotic/raging is fun tho as long as it's tyrannical.
ionic fern
Tyrannical is fun fdym.
sharp night
neither affix are even allowed to be paired with fort
west galleon
tyrannical is the most garbage thing added to dungeons in a long time imo
sharp night
it's starting to get to that point this season too though
bosses with like 40m hp or smoething
the hp scaling is just out of control imo, 40% bonus hp is too much
sharp night
yeah but you can turn off your brain like 30 seconds into the fight
maiden ravine
It's trusting your dps to live that 30 seconds
cause no one wants to 3 or 4 man that boss
do people use the totems or something eventually?
sharp night
no
worthy mountain
Il'gynoth hurts
hallow phoenix
worthy mountain
yesterday i tanked with 450 ilvl
second eye through IP + reflect + demo does 80% of my health
ebon hound
hey, as long as you don't die to it 👍
left hatch
^ this. its the only part of the fight with meaningful damage
so doesn't matter if you survive the 2nd with 8% health or 80%
worthy mountain
true
brittle owl
if you really struggle just use AuG
but that's...bad
maut trinket is also decent there
you can have maut on the second, and shieldwall on the "6th"
and it lines up p decently
tribal tartan
Maut trinket dropped yesterday 😄
dark lark
To confirm: NZoth shoulders still > Prophet shoulders because ilvl despite weaker traits, right? I have abyssal malevolence for DC, should I go IF on nzoth shoulders?
ionic fern
IF for AoE/Defensive setup.
RF for ST offensive setup.
mental flower
If i'm new to prot and hunting for defensive trinkets from mythic plus not the raid which 2 should i be targeting?
mental scarab
Healers have cds for you 🥳
ionic fern
Both EP trinkets are still solid (Urchin,Edicts)
From Current Tier:
Vita-Charged Titanshard
Lingering Psychic Shell
Sigil of Warding (in some situations)
Black Dragon Scale
sweet summit
"Not the raid"
mental flower
yeah i'm not going to get one from the raid for a while as not a tank for the guild
rapid tide
Try to pug EP tbf.
ionic fern
I stole a 475 Maut 2h weapon for myself
rapid tide
Ashvane is quite simple even on mythic at current gear and the trinket is really good.
ionic fern
😂
mental flower
just want to hunt the 2 best from M+ quickly and target them today. Can put loot spec to tank but we use master loot and not worth the agro.
ionic fern
Then AD/WM
sweet summit
Rezan + block
ionic fern
You can just pug first boss in new raid as well tho..not a hard one and drops the Dragon Scale. 🙂
rapid tide
Also some of your best tank trinkets from the raid are the best dps trinkets, too.
Defensively Vita and Dragon Scale.
Offensively Torment
So you rolling for them would not be weird at all imho.
ionic fern
rapid tide
This time socketed tho.
So yay I guess?
I would love to be able to transfer corruption from one slot to another.
3x EV does still sound juicy.
distant crystal
rapid tide
dang, nice one.
rapid tide
I will keep opening weekly in Fury spec
Until the day I get my 475 geti with td3
or gushing. Fine, too.
rapid tide
Ye, have a 465, too. Indestructible even! :' )
Maybe I should open in Prot.
But then agian... all I will tank on prot is first 5 in the raid and keys.
So idk if it's worth it even.
distant crystal
i want a 475 shield
more than anything
but my warr is and alt alt
won't see mythic for awhile
distant crystal
trash boe :p
distant crystal
just go prot loot spec between bosses :p
rapid tide
We had everyone as a group collectively run to safespot
Which was in the middle of the fire.
Because we all smart af.
distant crystal
someone popped lust a 2nd time and we were like wait wut
rapid tide
When does it enrage?
distant crystal
like 11 minutes or something
rapid tide
Ah okay, fair.
We took 9:02 for the kill but it feels like we were slow af this week.
And looking at logs... yep we were.
Half the raid at blue parses :' )
ionic fern
Parsing is a snooze fest right now tbh.
How to get a good parse:
1)Have decent corruption
2)Have decent RNG on corruption procs
3)Gz, top 10.
rapid tide
Or be like me
1.) Have decentish corruption
2.) Have decentish rng
3.) 60 log
surprisedPikachu
(iow if your rotation is bad it's still a bad parse 😂 )
brittle owl
imagine being bad at autopilot
worthy mountain
on my enhancer i got 2x r1 IS and 2x Mindflay r1 1x r3
still not doing too well
around 85 ish
rapid tide
I don't know even. I feel like I am maybe just missing tons of casts.
Probably just getting old and slow.
errant oriole
As a 453 prot war would i be safe running devastator in nom or heroic?
left hatch
should be, most of the scary mechanics are just good cd management
not based on rage gen
Vex final phase might get a bit yikes but otherwise
rapid tide
mhm. Not even sure what I do all that wrong. E.g. Maut Top Log casts vs mine at similar fight time:
Shield Slam: 65 vs my 71
Thunder Clap: 99 vs my 109
Revenge: 22 vs my 19
Devastate: 90 vs my 89
Now I'm sad 😦
maiden ravine
woah, watching firedup do a 22 shrine
left hatch
corruption
brittle owl
playing the wrong prot on maut
maiden ravine
they don't skip the runecarver
brittle owl
actually think doing runecarver is better
left hatch
only week skipping scarn is a must is bostering
brittle owl
since you need to kill sooooo many fucking things
rapid tide
Runecarver is not really that bad.
ionic fern
@rapid tide check avg damage/crit %/ avg hits (of TC) etc.
brittle owl
and it actually gives decent %
ionic fern
We usually play Runecarver also and just pull other stuff onto it.
rapid tide
Mine is higher Mwahi.
maiden ravine
they skipped the wind guy before that
rapid tide
16k TC, 26k SS, top log: 16.3k TC, 19.7k SS
brittle owl
how many adds do you have up
maiden ravine
interesting, I'm just too used to plebs who don't know how to stand in runes
rapid tide
I think the problem is more: I don't have Infinite Stars, I don't have Null Barrier, I was runnig VoP > Conc Flame
ionic fern
Jep.
rapid tide
I was just playing a dogshit build basically 😛
rapid tide
We... ignore adds until p3 tbf.
And p3 is fast.
:' )
Don't question our strategies, they are... dumb but somehow they work.
brittle owl
is this hc or myth
rapid tide
myth.
ionic fern
@brittle owl you can safely be on boss and still get top logs.
brittle owl
obv @ionic fern
but adds are the obvious parse strategy
btw do you know how dumb pink prot is on that fight ? 😂
brittle owl
kek
i think i can easily do 80k if i just tunnel boss
literally just fucking mau-ing maut
or uno if you're na but thats not a fun pun anymore
rapid tide
...
I looked at the log
And somehow thought the 2 hpals were the tanks.
And was wondering where that insane dps was.
then I saw you at the top of the meter : ' )
That's actually insane.
brittle owl
it's the maut trap card
slim pier
oh
brittle owl
😂
slim pier
lmao
undone sun
Brambles damage loop on maut 🤣
maiden ravine
I like brambles
brittle owl
shit tier holy shield tbh
wheat latch
Looking for some honest answer, i keep getting mixed responses from some. Is there a min/max haste i should be shooting for? i know there isnt exactly a "hard cap" but im not sure if im stacking too much haste and resulting in too little vers. At the moment i have unbuffed 2361 haste or 35% and 1471 vers or 17%
wheat latch
the reason im asking is because i have a 455 ring 216 haste 340 verse with socket and enchant which gives me a bonus 110
strong forum
You can't go wrong with it, there's no max% or any amount of vers that's too little
wheat latch
but i just got a 470 ring with 233 haste 349 verse no socket
wheat latch
then a mech ring that is 460ilvl 452haste 112haste socket and enchant
just not sure if it is worth sacrificing some haste to get that vers from the 470 ring
strong forum
I read that wrong first, take both the socketed rings
rapid tide
More Stats > Specific Stats
So take the socketed rings.
Socket Haste in there
And be happy to have good socketed rings
😛
strong forum
Sockets are incredibly strong on rings
rapid tide
Basically to evaluate a ring:
Add up the secondary stats on it. Add 50 if there is a socket on it.
strong forum
Well same, I have like 6 460+ rings with sockets and corruptions
rapid tide
Take the ones that have the highest value.
wheat latch
super happy with that haha
rapid tide
And if several rings have same amount of stats then prioritize the ones with haste.
I am running a shitty 460+445 mechagon set with the haste proc 😦
Got the 445 from a 15 even but it was week 1 so no 465.
cloud hound
any tips for vision as prot? essences/talents
ruby nexus
CoF major, offensive trinkets
vapid shell
Playing lucid dreams major is overall better then vision/any other?
vapid shell
Can cast 3 times avatar in thr 1st minute of fight with bl
left hatch
fantastic, it still has lower uptime overall than VoP
in M+ the only time you want to run lucid is very high keys (like 20+) where you absolutely NEED 40s of uninterrupted avatar to survive
and are making massive pulls roughly ever 2m to play around that
any other situation VoP will be better both for dps and survivability
and in raid its even less of a contest its VoP for aoe/survival or CoF for st pumping
vapid shell
Tyvm for your help
rapid tide
Hit more buttons in higher frequency.
Optimize your gear
Optimize your pulls
Optimize your cooldown utilization
sick sentinel
ok yeah but what can i actually do
like shoudl i stack haste vers gear or crit hase gear or what
rapid tide
Cast TC on Cooldown in big pulls. Make sure you open big pulls with Avatar. Make sure you are stacking mobs up properly so that you can hit them all.
Your gear has not all too much impact on your dps in all fairness. Keep gearing for stats > all.
sick sentinel
thats not what im asking
rapid tide
Yes but what you are asking is not clear in all fairness.
sick sentinel
numbers
rapid tide
If there was a 1-2-3 step solution to getting big deepz I would gladly tell you about it 😛
sick sentinel
going from 20k thudnerclaps to 30k
rapid tide
But there isn't.
If you want your thunderclaps to hit higher on average you need to either increase your versatility, your weapon dps or your crit chance.
(I am not saying that this will increase your overall damage in a key though).
sick sentinel
ok so stack vers crit
rapid tide
If you want more average damage on your TCs, yes.
But I am just saying: That's not the metric you should optimize.
left hatch
generally crit is a better stat for aoe dps than verse
but you can always just sim your statweights in a patchwerk 5 2m
but min-maxing your statline isn't going to show a huge improvement
corruption-ilvl-and just pulling bigger is whatll have your numbers drastically increase
maiden ravine
I can't wait to see what cloak procs do to dps
brittle owl
very little in the grand scheme of things
compared to corruption
every power gain aside from those is such a small % it aint even funny
sick sentinel
next week is 3500 main stat proc
sweet summit
Thats big ^
marble cipher
oh, is that on rank 12 already? pog!
maybe I should upgrade my third cloak this week then, god damnit, so many visions
flint cliff
480 azerite pieces without BoM or 465 with BoM? ilvl > BoM? My tankgear setup would be no BoM at all but 3x480 azerite with DC in engi helmet... or 480 engi helmet with DC and 2x 465 azerite with BoM...
flint cliff
Thx. Yeah 1x DC in engi helmet
marble cipher
and go cry a bit in a corner due to lacking any BoM traits for a while 😄
However, don't all raid pieces (or almost all) have BoM trait 🤔
Or did you gamble two pieces from residuum and got very unlucky?
left hatch
all raid pieces have bom
flint cliff
I gambled twice and had no luck at all -.-
marble cipher
🇫
(I'm saving TR to buy specifics, don't wanna end up without my bom's)
Wearing two last boss pieces from HC atm, so the ilvl difference with the 475's is minimal
So I'll buy a 475 to fill that last slot, but it'll be the one I want, and not the one I gambled 😄
pine leaf
tier 2 twilight + tier 2 Echo voids or tier 2 twilight + tier 1 twilight what do you guys think?
marble cipher
whatever sims better I'd say
left hatch
sim
marble cipher
echo is a little less rng, but hits for less
(well, echo is still rng, it just builds/procs faster/more)
left hatch
point for point TD is better than EV in dps per corruption in AOEand roughly even in ST
rapid tide
Theme of the patch is go rng or go home so I'd go for more TD and pray to have it proc at the right moment 🙂
left hatch
and using the tier 1 lets you slide in something extra like a gushing wounds or stat%
but id go with the sims
pine leaf
fair enough thx, i like the less rng of voids tbh but i'll sim it
marble cipher
TD rng is fun with bursting when you wanna hold dps cause you're stacking too high 😄
"No, screw you holding back"
- Twilight Devastation
craggy harness
Incorrect.
"No, screw you holding back"
- Prot Warrior
Explains that 4 page drop rumor a few days ago.
marble cipher
yeah, sadly I didn't have it happen on any of my runs 😦
left hatch
^
but got to explore more of SW doing it and found where all the buff and crystal spawns are :d
😄
inland mesa
What do crystals do?
left hatch
you turn them into the ethereal guy in the first area for an extra chest
more crystals = bigger chest
inland mesa
Do you loot something when you click it?
left hatch
yah, its a momento chest that scales bigger than the tier 3 area ones
inland mesa
What about the Crystal's or is it just a hidden key you clicked on x then talk to the guy
left hatch
its just little orange crystals scattered around, and you talk to him before you do final boss to grab the chest
most are hidden inside buildings
inland mesa
Gotcha I've clicked them as I've seen them and didnt know what they did
left hatch
yeh, theres an ethereal in one of the houses leading to dwarven district (house next to haste buff if its up)
ruby nexus
How many crystals there are
left hatch
hard to keep track cause theres no counter, but i think we had 8 our most recent run
inland mesa
I should probably reread a guide since we now stay in visions longer and do more than just cloak objective. I didn't know about buffs or Crystal's:(
left hatch
its not on any guide that ik of rn. Know about buffs cause our healer had handynotes and it works there
and we kinda just stumbled across crystals
rn in SW theres 4 possible buffs with 2 being up each run. 2 houses in Alleria's zone offer either a 10% haste or 10% verse buff
theres a house in Dwarven district that has a ton of mines that a party member can navigate to the end to give everyone 10% damage
and the bank if its open has a baby opulance that when killed gives you... something
didn't check his buff, probably crit or something
last 60m or until you die
in org only found 2 of the buffs, the blacksmith has a damage one and the transmog hut gives crit
and crystals i havn't found any map or anything for it yet ): just kinda have to stumble across it and remember them
and mostly it was our healer checking in buildings so only one i remember for sure is while fighting Shaw, behind the stables theres a crystal spawn
@exotic spoke might have more info on spawn locations or a link to a map of them
marble cipher
HandyNotes Visions of N'zoth puts all that info on your map, including location of the buffs
mind you, not all buffs are up all the time
marble cipher
Ah, could be, never bothered with crystals so far
left hatch
they're big value, was doing a few no mask clears to speedrun claok pre-raid and just 5 crystals with no mask was like 230ish
and we had 8 before we scuffed last run in mage district ):
marble cipher
I'm quite behind on memento stuff on my mage (third char that I do them on), so I might go for crystals there, to get my research a bit more bulky
this week was draining though, 4 runs on three chars 🤢
left hatch
if you can find a map of them none of them seem really out of the way or behind extra trash
buffs probably not worth going for till 3+ masks tho, shit melts too fast to bother
marble cipher
True, but some you will just pass by automatically, without going out of the way, so might as well
(like orgrimar crit buff in the drag for instance)
left hatch
true
all of the SW ones are either annoying af to get (like the mine room is basically a nightmare if you don't have a DH with you for his double jump) or is after add wave spawns
so its a tossup
formal vine
Is it worth pugging mythic Ashvane for a high itemlevel Urchin? I'm 472 and I wonder if the trinket can keep up.
dusty summit
strong forum
So apparently you can socket a ring that already has a socket, with mementos..
:hmm:
gaunt dawn
proof?
wind garden
I feel like that’s gonna catch a hotfix
exotic spoke
Morning Prot chat. I saw a ping - we good or do I need to go and look for it?
exotic spoke
brittle owl
trust me
exotic spoke
You’re making it hard to
sweet summit
exotic spoke
Lol
exotic spoke
@left hatch I don’t have a map handy. I know some of the locations off hand though
Crystals appear to be in consistent locations - at least on a given week
The buffs change run to run.
left hatch
yeh from what i saw buffs have 2 patterns, never saw mines up w/o haste buff or verse up without bank
and mmk, just have to remember them ig, ty!
static burrow
between "Salvaged Mekacycle Shielding" and "Bulwark of Brimming Potential" both 455, any input on which should be used?
left hatch
anything is better than the mechagon shield at equivilant ilvl
exotic spoke
I think there are a couple sets of “this buff or that buff” and it just populated based on that
left hatch
hmm ok, do you know offhand where the buffs are in org? only stumbled across Blacksmith and crit from Xmog hut
ripe shale
I think there's one in the inn
exotic spoke
Blacksmith, gammon (to the right as you zone in) - I believe this is the Inn, in the drag there is a house on the right that if it’s open there’s an Ethereal portal that you click on and a guy will pop out to murder
Not sure of the others off hand - I imagine one of the banks may have something like in SW
left hatch
hmm ok ty
broken mulch
what's the correct usage of ashvane trinket for dps gain? use it every avatar or save for 1 big one?
exotic spoke
I can’t remember the other ones off hand. I know some crystal locations but I dunno 🤷♂️
Every other avatar is t he sim I believe
broken mulch
so on pull then 3rd then 5th if i get you right?
left hatch
i think you plant it on pull and then pull it out for 2nd ava
if you use it on pull it won't have anytime to build up crit stacks so would be a wasted use
but then yah after that its every other
exotic spoke
I believe that’s how the sim is set up. Not sure. I tend to use it just inkpod for some fights due to burst phases and how they line up - like Maut for example
wooden radish
:mwahi:
ionic fern
With Inkpod save Coral for right before Inkpod pops. Without inkpod the sweet spot seems to be roughly 8 stacks. @broken mulch
:lincoln:
wooden radish
exotic spoke
I couldn’t remember >.>
exotic spoke
Also, fuck people who let spreadsheets get to 0.5gb
sick sentinel
Fuck spreadsheets
final mist
Spreadsheets are great, fuck you
exotic spoke
I agree with Sal
0.5 gigabyte spreadsheets as a data dump with no organization though are cancerous
ionic fern
@warm plinth
paper valley
when is alot of haste too much and should lean towards vers? mainly for pushing keys
west kayak
“He who controls the spice haste controls the universe.”
tame garden
It's a south park reference I think
the spice melange
Nvm maybe not 😂
Frank herbert 
cold cosmos
Blizzard is being eerily quiet on Twilight Destruction <_<
west kayak
Its a Dune reference... shameful.
fresh charm
i like my r3 twilight
tame garden
What is dune
cold cosmos
I love my R3 TD too. But it's still obviously overtuned <_<
delicate ruin
Is the wp from wrathion worth it for the corruption?
I'm using TD r3 right now so gonna have to switch things out
modern brook
Also, fuck people who let spreadsheets get to 0.5gb
@exotic spoke LOL WTF
craggy harness
uh, i had a spreadsheet get that big
modern brook
I actually cant aay anything at my job I inherited a data base that logs transactions ina .txt
Upwards of 2 terabytes rn
craggy harness
but that's because it was doing file comparisons of pdf contents vs file location
tame garden
craggy harness
and it was easier just to let excel handle it
west kayak
@delicate ruin TD3 does more damage than Wrathion's weapon.
delicate ruin
tks for the info 😄
carmine wadi
Guys what's the best way to sim for m+?
dense plaza
I do 4 bosses 1 min..
warm plinth
Sim single target patchwerk for 3 min (fairly average boss length for M+). 5 target patchwerk for 1-2 mins with lust disabled. Then use your best judgment to decide.
carmine wadi
Okay because I got IS 3 on bracers and could wear this but nothing other piece because it's 75 corruption. Or I could wear a combination out of EV 2 / haste % and mastery proc
exotic spoke
Had to cleanse Wrathion last night as soon as I got it. Rip for now until I get a second one
uncut fractal
guys im 455 ilvl and im struggling to tank +10s. I feel like tanking on my guardian druid was easier...
exotic spoke
What item lvl is your shield? Do you have a character link?
We need more info to help out
tame garden
Well bear is best tank so that's not surprising
tame garden
lucid pendant
Im at 26% haste on character sheet, should I still prioritize it over all other secondaries?
exotic spoke
Defensively haste is still better - assuming equal Ilvl. Offensively, like Speg said you can Sim.
The defensive benefits are primarily for M+ where you’re constantly actively tanking and need to maximize shield block / last stand up time
lucid pendant
Fair, it also means more r3 TD procs I think
tame garden
Yep
analog zinc
the reason you should be more defensive is so your healer can spend more time dpsing
exotic spoke
And bigger pulls if you’re only doing single pulls / still starting to push up there
analog zinc
if you're playing with unskilled pug healers & you're doing content where you can survive everything just by playing with half a brain then you should spec for as much dmg as possible
uncut fractal
but there's some packs where I find myself struggling even with SB & IP
analog zinc
why do people link armouries :<
uncut fractal
what should i link
uncut fractal
analog zinc
you're just kinda running a lot of subpar options
your azerite is low ilvl
both your trinkets are bad
only 1 bastion of might
get your neck up, get some better gear, get the best essences & you should be fine
exotic spoke
Honestly, gear looks fine. Not ideal but good for 10-12s. Definitely could be better for azerite options
Probably a combination of rotation issues and low Ilvl / not good azerite traits
analog zinc
you're probably making some gameplay mistakes because you look pretty new to the spec
exotic spoke
Fine being subjective for the keys you’re doing
But definitely has a lot of room for improvement
uncut fractal
in king's rest for example, i was getting stomped by the mobs casting shadow bolt
the damage spikes were unreal, i feel like i was paper tanking
same goes for spirit breaker add, 50% of my hp is gone
uncut fractal
that's like half my hp 😄
exotic spoke
Magic damage is an issue with your group not kicking / stopping casts
Specifically the shadow bolts you mentioned.
Demo shout / IP / Reflect will help with it but kicks / ccs are much better
tidal sleet
those shadow bolt volleys aren't supposed to get off at all, and in higher keys 99% of groups won't let them
especially on fort week...
maiden ravine
Warrior does feel squishy compared to others, but I like it still
exotic spoke
How do we feel squishy lol?
maiden ravine
I don't know, I just do
I think for me I hate not having any self heal if I don't get the kb
Druid felt nice having frenzied, but I haven't taken him to 10s yet
exotic spoke
You don’t need a self heal if you’re taking almost 0 damage
maiden ravine
I wish I could say I'm taking that little
exotic spoke
Which, for the majority of key levels. Is basically what we do
maiden ravine
Maybe on most bosses
But trash even on tyrannical weeks feels like it can wreck me
final mist
Gonna sound toxic but, the solution here is to “play better”
Which is the only actual advice we can offer
final mist
Warrior is a proactive tank, you need to be actively planning for and using CDs to lessen incoming damage
maiden ravine
I have terrible luck with trinkets
final mist
We don’t have, “Oh shit!” cooldowns like other tanks
exotic spoke
Trinkets are negligible
maiden ravine
Oh I use shield block and last stand a lot
final mist
You should be cycling through all of them basically on-cooldown
SB and LS aren’t our only CDs
modern brook
trinkets are DPS upgrades yah
final mist
Demo Shout, Shield Wall, Commanding Shout if it isn’t needed for group survival, etc
All of those should be used all the time
maiden ravine
I meant shield wall not shield block
final mist
Are you using them at optimal times?
exotic spoke
3x shield block -> last stand and fill gaps with shield wall etc
strong forum
ill have you know its called rallying cry
maiden ravine
Demo shout is used basically on CD for the damage increase
final mist
I.E. if you know SB isn’t going to be up for a while and you don’t have LS, that’s a shield wall use
maiden ravine
I have the trait that extends the duration too
high sierra
hi guys ! didn't do raids since BoD, is it worth to try to do EP in HM to get those OP tank trinkets?
i'm actually tanking with 2 crit trinkets 😦
final mist
DS isn’t just for the damage increase, it’s also for the survival increase
modern brook
and the mad points
exotic spoke
Screw you Nome. It’s still Commanding shout to me
final mist
^
maiden ravine
I mean if I'm using ds on 5 mobs on CD during a dungeon, usually on pull, what else can I do
sick sentinel
Whenever someone in raid says “hawgz shout” I just yell into my microphone
strong forum
thats the only proper response
maiden ravine
That's when I dip lowest is when I first pull a pack
exotic spoke
@high sierra some say yes some don’t. For the most part people tend to go offensive for raids. Haste / crit trinkets still offer some defensive benefits. A trinket won’t make it a lot of difference for survivability
sick sentinel
If you are feeling squishy when you pull it’s likely cause you’re going in without SB
maiden ravine
Charge, shield slam, try to block
final mist
You should have enough rage that you can SB as you go in
modern brook
already wrong
sick sentinel
I don’t smell avatar in that opener
high sierra
@exotic spoke but I only do M+, that's why I'm trying to get the urchin and the edicts
maiden ravine
Cause even with vop avatar isn't up every pull
modern brook
pull more then 😠
sick sentinel
It should be up for a vast majority of pulls
final mist
You should still have rage from a previous pull tho
Or just pop another CD
Or use an external
maiden ravine
Not when healers are oom this week
exotic spoke
Speaking of going Offensive in raid. The comment by one of the healers, on the trash leading to skittra last night, was like “Riki - one of these days you’re going to get fucked when I don’t cleanse your reflected inkpod stacks and you drop below 30”
And my RL went “wait.... you’re using inkpod?”
modern brook
If ur not able to avatar every 2-3 pulls give or take on the dungeon
tame garden
Avatar every pull
exotic spoke
@high sierra depends on the key levels and item levels of your items. Some tanks are running double haste trinkets from mythic nyalotha
sick sentinel
Literally
maiden ravine
I mean avatar is used on CD basically, which sometimes means it's not up to start a pull
sick sentinel
If you are not having avatar on virtually every pull you need to pull bigger
exotic spoke
I found an issue
high sierra
@exotic spoke I don't raid usually so I don't do Nya too
modern brook
w/VOP and AM isnt it like 45s?
final mist
Less, sometimes
maiden ravine
I am doing 10-15 in pure pugs, you can't pull more than 4-5 mobs
exotic spoke
You’d have to get a good mythic one imo. If you’re not pushing super high keys it honestly doesn’t matter the r
modern brook
u def can
sick sentinel
Untrue. I pug 15+ all the time and pull like a homunculous
final mist
I have a 460 Titanshard and a 475 socketed Rezan’s, didn’t play during EP so I don’t have a coral or Inkpod 
exotic spoke
^^
maiden ravine
It's the fact I can't rely on pugs to interrupt anything
final mist
You can’t rely on pugs to do anything
maiden ravine
And there's so many mobs that have to be kicked or you wipe
exotic spoke
Yeah i started using 475 humming dragons ale and am debating using that and rezans
final mist
That’s why you just do it all yourself
modern brook
^
modern brook
- storm bolt
sick sentinel
Kick
final mist
Just get a few TDs and the mobs die before you do, ez
sick sentinel
Storm bolt
high sierra
@exotic spoke well I'm quite squishy and I've no selfheal so I thought it might be good to have those
modern brook
Like heres the thing kyle
high sierra
since I only do pugs and I only get shitty heals
exotic spoke
@maiden ravine that depends on the dungeon and pulls. In the vast majority of cases you can combine two* packs into one pull
sick sentinel
Self heal is for weak classes like dk
modern brook
If u pull a mob like the shadow volley ones u were talking about in KR
and ur dudes dont kick it
Ur still going to get trucked
maiden ravine
I just know there's no way I pull like more than 3 mobs before second UR boss for example just cause I don't have the cc to keep damage low
final mist
Also we have several of our own interrupts; Pummel, Shockwave, Storm Bolt, Intimidating Shout, etc
modern brook
regardless of pull size
exotic spoke
@high sierra there are other issues then - just like the other conversation going on right now.
Trinkets don’t make that much of a difference. It could be your other gear or improper usage of our tools or your group not knowing how to kick
maiden ravine
I am terrified of fear because it pulls so much excess trash
analog swift
It shouldn’t
modern brook
everything else is irrelevant
final mist
Gear is a lot less impactful than people think
analog swift
Swarmers*
maiden ravine
Bull, I can't. I haven't seen a healer that can handle it
modern brook
"oh no my monkey of a mage is getting jumped on"
analog swift
Lashers seems easy
modern brook
who gives a shit
high sierra
@exotic spoke kicks ? in pugs? kek
final mist
Pug healers suck
exotic spoke
I think I was grabbing and chaining 6-7 mobs at a time last night in UR18
sick sentinel
But have you tried
analog swift
Are*
final mist
News at 11
maiden ravine
Like a third slime makes healers oom
analog swift
Yeah underrot I do in like four pulls
final mist
Get better healers
modern brook
😬
exotic spoke
@high sierra Dont gear for pugs. Gear properly
analog swift
^^
modern brook
thats some overhealing
analog swift
I also always feel like that’s an excuse for playing bad
exotic spoke
Had some fun pulls of skeletons onto works last night 🙂
final mist
Pugs are the type of healers who just spam their hardest hitting heal that costs the most mana because they’re dumb
Or they just chaincast Chain Heal
high sierra
@exotic spoke well I've followed the guide, can't do better
final mist
And then go oom in three spells
exotic spoke
And don’t do damage in m+ because they have to keep healing
analog swift
I pugged to 2K+ multiple seasons and as long as you aren’t jumping with stupid low io players it’s fine
final mist
^
sick sentinel
Get them in discord and play the game for them cause you are the tank
high sierra
just tagged in a +9 with a rdruid, 470 weapon, no enchant no gem, wtf is that
final mist
A pug
maiden ravine
You don't get the better players until you have a higher Rio which I'm working on
final mist
The way you handle pugs is you pretend you’re the tankiest dps in the entire world
final mist
I run two dps trinkets the entire time and dps corruptions
modern brook
unless they're selling
sick sentinel
Set the bar and the group will rise to it
craggy harness
Are you the reason why there's a monk out there that goes "I told you we should not bring that warrior tank"
sick sentinel
Lul
final mist
2 DPS trinkets, 2 TDs, full mongo, keep going
final mist
If you finish a pug and you aren’t top dps, you played wrong tbh
exotic spoke
Anyway - have to get back to work
But bullfango is correct. I’ll never really pug at all. I play with friends and friends of friends - I add the players I like to my friends list / discord. I don’t use LFG Almost at all
Hell I needed a dps for a 19 the other night. A dps with zero experience over a 12 applied.... yeahhh no... I’m not taking you lol
Cya later - back to work
final mist
Playing like a bitch is a bitchmade move
Sorry if that’s toxic but
That’s just how Warrior works
high sierra
maybe I'm not using the good major/minors combo to be more tanky
modern brook
modern brook
@high sierra if ur having trouble being tanky
and ur above 460ilvl
ur playing wrong
period
maiden ravine
I pull based on what my healers show they can handle
analog swift
Vet your group
sick sentinel
Pull based on what you can handle
final mist
If you have logs, I don’t mind looking over them with you to point out mistakes
modern brook
^
final mist
And help you get better
warm plinth
I play like a bitch constantly
maiden ravine
My last 15 ur healer was literally dying to the fixate
inland mesa
do people go BV or devastator for M+? I think raid just makes me lazy that I don't like pressing devastate
modern brook
Again @maiden ravine ur the tank u set the pace
tame garden
Wtf
modern brook
if u pull a 2 pack
warm plinth
BV
modern brook
ur healer is going to hael for a 2 pack
analog swift
Lolololol
modern brook
force them to keep up
tame garden
What's with all these devastator only warriors
modern brook
otherwise ur not timing anyways
maiden ravine
I'd rather not die constantly
warm plinth
Like
final mist
If your healers are bad, call them bad and ask them to play better
high sierra
guess i'm not kiting enough like the pros
sick sentinel
You will improve by pulling with bad healers
warm plinth
You guys know you don't run Deva on every raid fight right 😬
final mist
I don’t kite :kekw:
maiden ravine
If a healer is going oom after 3 mobs I'm not going to pull 6
sick sentinel
What I’m not supposed to run deva on hive mind ghash
modern brook
I only kite after 30 stacks of necrotic 🤷♂️
analog zinc
i run it on first 10
inland mesa
what fight would you not run it, just so you can add cheese more?
sick sentinel
30?
final mist
If a healer is going OOM after three mobs in a 15
sick sentinel
Weak
analog zinc
too lazy to swap for hivemind & shit
modern brook
because my healer says "welp good luck man"
tame garden
Booming voice isnt cheese
ionic fern
👀
modern brook
@final mist ur today god damn :^)
high sierra
my main problem is I'm tanky actually, but my life don't go up after that 😄
final mist
I’m always toxic
inland mesa
when it's farm and they die in 4 seconds cuz everyone went aoe spec it is
final mist
Like for real tho
maiden ravine
Well I'm not as ass like that. I only leave if it's clear we aren't going to kill a boss
inland mesa
those feels when your TD procs and all the drones are already dead 😦
warm plinth
We're just seeing it more because Sal is actually participating in chat regularly 😂
final mist
If a healer is OOM after 3 mobs in a 15:
- Why are they there?
- Why are you still there?
- That key is a waste of time.
modern brook
unless the key was marketed as COMPLETION in which case u knew what u were getting into
final mist
Leave and get better.
maiden ravine
I've done a lot of keys that are slow and 4-5 minutes after Time
inland mesa
I pulled 3 of the big guys in a 16 FH, mistakes were made
final mist
There’s no penalty for leaving in that situation, it’s a waste of time for you to stay there and try, this isn’t some shounen anime where friendship and stubbornness win the day.
oblique garnet
you can time 15s by just pulling pack by pack
final mist
You’re just gonna wipe repeatedly.
oblique garnet
as long as your dps are somewhat decent
final mist
Leave it and find a better group.0
sick sentinel
Not my key not my problem as I always say
final mist
^
sick sentinel
And if it is my key I don’t play with shitters so there you go
maiden ravine
I don't leave because my own moral code says I signed up for this, it's not my key to ruin someone else's night. I signed up to do that dungeon to the end
inland mesa
I love the DPS that have a key for UR then miss their interrupt on first boss and then get mad when we die
ionic fern
Pugged 2 +16 keys yesterday with 2k scored people. They died to every imaginable thing there was
final mist
You are wasting your own time by sitting in a key like that, and it’s not fruitful for your own time or experience to play like that.
ionic fern
👍
modern brook
I feel like theres a disconnect here between "how do i play better" and "how do i time keys" - the former being mostly what's been discussed by us (pulling for our CDs etc) and the latter being mostly the retorts on that
Like
final mist
Yeah but you have EU mongos mwahi
modern brook
If ur dps arent kicking party whiping mechanics
tame garden
Yeah I also never leave pugs unless were chainwiping to a boss
modern brook
ur going to wipe
you cant tank around that
so it doesnt make sense to cater to idiots
maiden ravine
I rather waste my time than be an asshole
inland mesa
up to a certain threshold
analog zinc
@inland mesa at low levels yes
warm plinth
I don't leave PUGs typically. However, I'd offer another perspective: You didn't sign up to carry someone.
analog zinc
na mongos are PRETTYY bad
final mist
^
oblique garnet
EU Mongos are a specimen
tame garden
Na has azralon
modern brook
Azralon 😬
oblique garnet
I cant understand how people are doing the things they do
maiden ravine
Maybe my perspective is skewed by being na alliance
modern brook
and the ragnaros gambit
analog zinc
@warm plinth i remember signing up for like a 9 FH where the semi-geared demo lock was doing 2k dps
final mist
Morals won’t help you get better in a key where the healer can’t heal a pack of three mobs
warm plinth
Oh jesus
analog zinc
it was his key so i just left, that guy doesnt deserve to have a +10
maiden ravine
I can't take anyone from quel thalas cause they always dc first wipe
warm plinth
Like if the key is going fine, I'm not gonna leave. But yeah if you have shit like that happening and you stay, you're just punishing yourself or something.
analog zinc
half of his demonbolts where hardcast
modern brook
hardcast
final mist
Staying in a key like that just means you’re a closeted masochist and just haven’t realized it yet
modern brook
dude was playing one handed city
final mist
Which is totally fine, no kink shaming tbh, just not my gig
warm plinth
lol
modern brook
:sal:
maiden ravine
I'll stay if it's clear someone is trying and learning like when they die to a fixate or other mechanics they haven't seen mhcht
maiden ravine
Much, cause I need that patience myself
final mist
But if you’re doing a 15, why are they learning mechanics
modern brook
there was a guy called naeno who was
final mist
It’s a 15
modern brook
it was an era
oblique garnet
Sal stop being toxic
maiden ravine
You'd be surprised sal
final mist
I’m toxic because I care Late
inland mesa
we've just been yolo timing 15s because a lot of us haven't had time to run keys yet
final mist
Where’s our peepohands emote smdh
oblique garnet
Vel is against peepos 😦
inland mesa
like the only FH I've run this tier is a 16 timed XD
I still haven't even run 4 dungeons
warm plinth
Like honestly I get so frustrated when I join a pug that said something like "+13 pushing" and then everyone they fucking invite is like 1k io
analog zinc
we're not allowed nitro emotes
final mist
analog zinc
:sadbear:
maiden ravine
A lot of mechanics that people ignore on low keys suddenly become dangerous on a 15
warm plinth
Like you're not pushing shit except pushing me to the edge of leaving this group lol
inland mesa
cries in 1258 io 😢
final mist
Tru
modern brook
I dont have time to key like i used to so im still hoping ppl just look at my s2 score instead of my current one lol
modern brook
no its alliance lol
warm plinth
Imagine doing keys with Bull 😬
modern brook
😬
maiden ravine
No, because I work a random retail schedule
inland mesa
yeah I miss having time like the 2500 push season, now I just am too busy at work, gonna try to bulk up sat and monday for some score
modern brook
imagine being bull doing keys 😬
warm plinth
Like doing keys with @lusty grotto but...actually better
final mist
Okay oof
modern brook
yo fuck @lusty grotto
maiden ravine
I rarely play at the same time every day
final mist
I have no advice here because I know the retail life
final mist
You’re fucked m8, sorry
inland mesa
quit so you can do keys, ez
modern brook
^
warm plinth
Hey Nim will just be happy that it was me pinging him and it wasn't a picture.
maiden ravine
I'll sit in them as I learn and get to 1700 rio
modern brook
like this one @warm plinth
final mist
You won’t get to 1700 by sitting in pugs where the healer can’t heal and no one does mechanics tho
maiden ravine
I have one of those shitter ios people don't invite
lusty grotto
HEY WAIT WHATS GOING ON
lusty grotto
ill have you know i didnt have corruption and totally killed a +10
tame garden
👀
maiden ravine
I'm slowly increasing my rio, as I do that I get better players
modern brook
nim died reflecting cyclone
lusty grotto
on my first key since last season, as a boomer classic-er
warm plinth
I'm proud of you
modern brook
everyone laugh at him
lusty grotto
why are you called pinky now
hold up
i asked on disc
"DID THEY FIX REFLECTING CYCLONE"
people cant answer
tame garden
lusty grotto
"fuck it we're doing it live"
inland mesa
it still works doesn't it, and why are you red the color of blood and anger
modern brook
@lusty grotto
maiden ravine
I may be too "nice" but I know I hate when people drop keys so I do my best not to unless it's clear we won't do a boss by wiping badly on an easier one
modern brook
kyle the points that the keys already dead
lusty grotto
should i
maiden ravine
Or if people are being toxic in group chat
modern brook
ur wiping not cause of a mistkae
lusty grotto
uninstall auctionator
modern brook
but because of the inherant incompetance of your team
lusty grotto
im getting mad lua errors
modern brook
at least in sal's exmaple
final mist
Okay lemme put it this way
maiden ravine
A key isn't dead to me unless no one is getting loot
maiden ravine
I have time, it's just that time is different every day week to week
final mist
If you have, say, 9 hours during the week before your days off to play WoW, that means you have less than that to do keys
You have dailies plus other shit
Plus finding groups
warm plinth
it was either I change my name or Mwahi change it for me so
modern brook
(lol @ doing dailies; big feel @ finding groups)
final mist
If you go in and the first pack the healer goes oom
You’re going to waste so much time
It’s not worth to stay in that key
modern brook
@warm plinth who are you?
lusty grotto
yeah i feel the same way
warm plinth
😦
lusty grotto
thats ghash
final mist
The benefit per time spent in that key is simply suboptimal to an irrational degree
modern brook
fuck man i didnt know 😦
maiden ravine
Oh I don't mean doing 2 hour keys, I'm talking keys that will be 5-10 minutes over
warm plinth
This was @ionic fern's plan all along. To make me nobody.
final mist
Okay but you gave me an example earlier where a healer was OOM on the first trash pack
final mist
Why would you stay in that key
maiden ravine
You have people that drop the moment its clear we won't 1 chest
warm plinth
I changed the picture like a month ago. Figured you guys had adapted by now lol
stark scroll
If you're ditching keys in the first few pulls because it's a 'waste of your time' you're an asshole and you should start forming your own groups and using your own key
final mist
Staying in a group that’s 5-10 mins over is fine, I’m not saying leave that key
lusty grotto
i miss ghash @modern brook i wonder if hes playing classic
warm plinth
😠
final mist
If the healer goes oom on the first trash pack like you said
modern brook
😬
maiden ravine
Perhaps I exaggerated, but I've had healers that I can't pull more than one pack or the healer will have to drink every pull
final mist
The healer isn’t wasting just your time, but the DPS’ time as well
maiden ravine
Especially with bursting
ionic fern
@warm plinth that's how you destroy a company. Make them brand change without marketing.
warm coyote
Well depending on the level of the key most people just want those io points and don’t care for the loot. Thus why once they know the key is dead they leave happens all the time
modern brook
@ionic fern what was wrong with his old name?
sick sentinel
Let them drink then. You should be able alto survive while they drink
modern brook
^ also that
sick sentinel
I frequently pull while my healer is drinking
lusty grotto
i judge my healers on their ability to spam drink
modern brook
i cant recall a time I had to stop for drinking without something going to shit
maiden ravine
If your that leet of a player, why are you in a 12 or 13 for rio
modern brook
😬 dont call out ppls io's thats just rude
lusty grotto
ok ok i have questions guys
stark scroll
I wish there was a way to track people who leave keys
tame garden
I wish I was leet
lusty grotto
do i need to uninstall auctionator?
lusty grotto
halp
sick sentinel
God same
modern brook
tho its mostly for venting and making fun of Dazein
modern brook
yeah
tame garden
Thrall represent
warm plinth
I think I use Auctionator
lusty grotto
also my DH and brother told me to do invasions, im guessing those are the ones with the eye thingie?
warm plinth
But I don't actually use it anymore since the revamp
modern brook
nim just uninstall it
ionic fern
A good healer is the one who you barely see below 50 percent mana regardless of how you pull since they take every chance to sit down and drink.
warm plinth
You're the one with the eye thingie
lusty grotto
says mogu right now i should do that right?
modern brook
you've been asking for like 6 days now
stark scroll
I'm not sure I'd entirely trust a list on a discord, too open to abuse
warm plinth
Do the assaults
maiden ravine
Mwahi, I hate healers that say pull at 20% mana
warm plinth
The "eye thingies"
lusty grotto
kk doing that
modern brook
@stark scroll its better than nothing
I keep a personal shit list
Its just myself 6 times
but its there
maiden ravine
If you have 20% Mana I'm not pulling big
stark scroll
Yeah I'm building my own list, it's not very big so far thankfully
warm plinth
That's racist
modern brook
yes
sick sentinel
Our job is not to judge when a healer can handle a pull
lusty grotto
i didnt mind people that left keys, but the ones that were trolls from the start i def put on ignore
like i get it, i dont want to fail keys either
warm plinth
I had a guy ask me once what I was doing (I was tanking) and in a brief, rare moment of toxicity, I said I was doing his mother.
😦
lusty grotto
and then the people i like i add on Bnet, unlike ghash and bull fuck those guys
sick sentinel
That makes me proud ghash : ‘)
modern brook
good job ghash
lusty grotto
liar
warm plinth
What are you talking about
lusty grotto
i have no pinky on bnet
modern brook
:OOF:
stark scroll
I had a tank a couple days ago die twice because he started typing during big pulls or boss fights to complain about the healer
warm plinth
ahem
maiden ravine
I hate feeling prejudiced towards the latam servers
sick sentinel
I am guilt if the SW and type
mortal brook
modern brook
I'm not prejudiced to the latin servers
lusty grotto
i cant handle those odds
modern brook
I'm prejudiced to the shitty servers
maiden ravine
Like I said, quel thalas players will randomly dc all the time
warm plinth
RIP LA
inland mesa
I invite only ragnaros players to challenge myself
modern brook
Rag tank is def M++
lusty grotto
chewtoy why are your balls so big
modern brook
Rag tank Az healer is Heroic Mythic + mode