particularly if you had to dismiss pets or not
#protection
warm plinth
There's an item that does that I think...can't remember
I think it was one of the Nazjatar consumables
left hatch
maybe one of the curses from the cursed coin thingy?
torpid solstice
Hey guys can anyone send a bis list for m+ and raid? i have no clue wich one is good or bad atm *pm me pls ❤️
short kindle
Is there a minimum haste you want for smooth gameplay, avatar and such?
torpid solstice
rage dps and live
left hatch
there isn't really a 'bis' list because of corruptions
torpid solstice
i got 55% haste atm
left hatch
survivability you go with Ilvl>all
raid is ilvl>haste>verse
M+ is ilvl>haste>crit
for dps just sim yourself when you get an upgrade
craggy harness
and a corruption piece may be worth it to drop ilvl
left hatch
^ im losing 25 ilvls on boots to get TD3
short kindle
because i am not to good at knowing stats and such and I dont really know how to balance simming dps and survivability
warm plinth
Nah it wasn't a curse. It like...healed you and did damage or something, but made everything aggro you
I can't remember though
left hatch
if yo'ure comfortable in the content and want more dps sim dps
warm plinth
Time for some research 
left hatch
if you die a lot and its not to mistakes where you know you fucked up/know what you fucked up
go with survivability
often the big differentiating factor between dps/survivability sets is gonna be trinkets
warm plinth
Brightspine Shell from Nazjatar. Deals physical damage to enemies who attack you in combat, but increases the radius that enemies detect you
left hatch
huh interesting
short kindle
Ok so i basically look for higher ilv, and sim for corruptions?
left hatch
for the most part yah
short kindle
except amybe trinkets i suppose
left hatch
trinkets go for Rezan, Wrathion, Vita, Butchers Block
for most content
nice offensive benefit while being close to BiS for def as well
craggy harness
lol, the description of brightspine
Use: Put the bright, spiky shell on your head, which deals Physical damage to enemies that attack you in combat, but increases the radius that enemies detect you.
random vine
is Faralos, Empires dream corruption any good ?
sweet summit
its meh
mortal brook
annoying to play around, middle of the pack for dps to corruption
if its all ya got, use it tho
jagged geyser
How is the fusion hacker for prot?
mortal brook
slightly better ST than equal ilvl statted weapons
no significant loss in survival from that tiny amount of secondary
jagged geyser
I have a 445 saber of dread pirate lockwood on, or put the new 455 fusion hacker on
so ill for with the fusion
left hatch
fusion hacker 100%
mortal brook
ilvl wins here in almost all cases. more ap is bigger everything for ya
left hatch
10 ilvls + a decent damage proc on it
jagged geyser
ty all
random vine
thx
sick sentinel
What is ap
sick sentinel
Is that the thing I passively get all tier until I am inevitably caught up by the time we get to the last boss
warm plinth
It's the thing you have to grind incessantly to keep up even though artifact knowledge exists.
mortal brook
🗞️
sick sentinel
Are you implying that I have done a shred of grinding since I hit 75
tame garden
I'm on track for 80 end of next week
warm plinth
Nope.
tame garden
Hbu hawgz
warm plinth
I haven't done any grinding ever
sick sentinel
77 :^)
tame garden
Nice
mortal brook
nearly 83. havent done any azerite wqs tho, just from the 8.3 rares
warm plinth
I'm just shy of 78 I think
mortal brook
anything to fill the void
warm plinth
We are equally unmotivated 
tame garden
Grinded 75. Passively going for 80. Afk til SL after that
sick sentinel
Yes brother
warm plinth
So Steve
sick sentinel
I agree
warm plinth
Are the minors scaling past 80?
mortal brook
yes
a few things will cap out, like VoP willl stop at 25%, but aside from that everythings still going up
warm plinth
Interesting
sick sentinel
It is if your name is hawgz
tame garden
👍
craggy harness
hawgz on his hog
limpid pawn
i see a couple people using sigil of warding
and psychic shell
what do you all think of that for M+
torn knoll
So question for you folks I hear crit vs verst in M+ can anyone explain why crit is better then verst? I feel like verst would have been the better option sense on top of increasing damage done it does a decrease to damage taken right?
tame garden
All secondaries reduce damage taken
sweet summit
it is haste>crit at equal ilvl
for m+
crit=parry
parry is a great "mitigation" tool when there are a lot of mobs meleeing you
hallow phoenix
Crit is one of your better stats for aoe damage, and with so many mobs hitting you parry becomes noticable
left hatch
also can delete certain boss mechanics with good rng
like the backhand from boss 3 of KR
sweet summit
just parry 4head
left hatch
and parry prevents necro stack for that attack
torn knoll
So pretty much crit can just do more damage and add to parry as well pretty much the bottom line of it
left hatch
crit is just better defensively in M+
tame garden
Ya
left hatch
is the bottom line
torn knoll
Cool glad I asked before I started pooling verst gear although most of my shit is haste mastery anyway suppose I need to start swapping it with hasre crit
Thanks for the info guys
sweet summit
ilvl>>>haste>crit>mast=vers for m+
left hatch
with BoM mast is a bit lower than verse
not cause its bad, just cause you have a high uptime on a buttload of it
torn knoll
See I'm using the H wraithion weapon and I have a 470 but its simming as a DPS loss should i still be using the 470 anyway?
hallow phoenix
You gain a marginal survival gain with higher ilvl weapon
left hatch
i used searing until the EV nerfs, cause i could fit in a EV2 with searing
hallow phoenix
I would use the better DPS option
leaden grail
I just died to cyclone strike even though i spell reflected. i did not get focused by the jolt cast, so why didnt spell reflect work?
torn knoll
Well right now I've got 2 of em and took searing off one of em so I could use the t3 HP beam sense it simmed higher in DPS then searing but I'm still unsure of how much corruption is alright to roll with
hallow phoenix
Only can reflect if it's targeting someone else
leaden grail
oh, it may have been on me, yeah. anything else i need to look out for?
torn knoll
I'm at the circle one although people say 80 is alright for M+
hallow phoenix
People that aren't cowards
torn knoll
All 80 does is the add that chases you right?
left hatch
thats at 40 lol
left hatch
you'll die the first Thing from beyond that gets you
because thats a double eye with huge range
on top of Things damage
hallow phoenix
Just reflect
strong forum
4head
left hatch
i think 80 is when % healing taken reduc and damage taken increased
hallow phoenix
Correct
leaden grail
it doesnt feel good to have thing from beyond on a tank spec, because you spawn so many
left hatch
does reflecting a Thing post 60 prevent the eyeball
left hatch
or extra eyeball* from spawning
hallow phoenix
Because the thing never hits you if you reflect it
left hatch
true
analog zinc
it doesn't
if you spell reflect a TFB at 60 corr it still slows you & spawns the circle
hallow phoenix
Problem with reflecting thing is you can't reflect random eye spawns
left hatch
oof so yo'ull still get the double eye
torn knoll
I feel like holding on to reflect in case one spawns just means you get chunked a bit harder is stuff you would normally be reflecting like in shrine for instance
tame garden
80 is too high for a tank
hallow phoenix
We don't recommend 80
left hatch
thats why 39 is the safety maximum adn 59 is ok with practice and context
like you barely use SR in freehold, so its a lot safer to run it there
analog zinc
40 corruption is absolutely fine for pwar
except for spell reflect bosses
SR normally covers like 90% of TFB, it only sucks with 3 of them spawn at a time
but thats rare
SR bosses are just painful with TFBs
analog zinc
i dont think 4 can spawn at a time
hallow phoenix
Did you died
hallow phoenix
I still can't decide which slot I'm going to roll for azerite Tuesday. I'm betting on getting Skitra shoulders so those are probably out
Chest I'm using desert guardian thingy, and I got nzoth helm
So chest?
hallow phoenix
Takes about 6 weeks to save up opposed to 1.5 for random
analog zinc
maybe i should save
left hatch
yup
analog zinc
i have carapace shoulders which are basically bis -5 ilvls
hallow phoenix
I also desire more than just MS pieces
hallow phoenix
Engi helm trolls me in workshop
left hatch
nzoth heroic is super good
left hatch
tauren or KT?
hallow phoenix
Darkspear
left hatch
huh wouldn't think youd get big enough
analog zinc
you click the pillar, pop avatar & cant go thru door
hallow phoenix
Engi proc too
analog zinc
never had taht issue yet
tame garden
laughs in vulpera
left hatch
the gnome pirate toy can fix that
sweet summit
gnome pirate toy is bis
hallow phoenix
But then I'd look like a gnome
left hatch
its a baindaid fix but
left hatch
Burgy Blackheart's Handsome Hat
analog zinc
sweet summit
some fish in an underwater cata zone drops it
hallow phoenix
That isn't maghar
ruby nexus
yeah that shit happens as space goat too
iron raptor
You guys all tanking the first freehold boss in corner on nest or nah?
ruby nexus
i'm also thinking of saving this season. engi helm isn't too bad right? and i'm betting on getting shoulders from hc carapace one day, which aren't bad either?
iron raptor
Last couple times I ran FH I’ve been chonked hard there. Not sure if there’s some other strat I’m missing
mortal brook
Being near the edge but not in danger of getting knocked, woth a ranged in the center baiting sharkbait poops can be good yeah, esp if youre melee heavy
high sierra
hello guys, i've really shitty prot 450 azerite armor, would it be better to get 3 good 430 azerite instead ?
warm plinth
It's highly unlikely that you have actual shit azerite. Sub-optimal =/= shitty. If you don't have a DC trait and you can get it from a 430, then it's probably worth it, but that's about it.
high sierra
don't have any bastion of might or iron fortress
and since I'm only doing m+ I thought it was more important to get them
warm plinth
Nope. You can have azerite that's fine that doesn't have those. The only trait worth losing ilevel for is your first Deafening Crash
high sierra
okay ty
then I really need to do those corrupted areas for my strength of the warden now
having it r1 is shameful
winged grail
Is Iron Fortress now worth it in M+?
outer lark
Trying to get my alt warrior into tanking, what essences are best for M+? And traits wise we going for BoM/DC?
high sierra
@winged grail that's what icyveins said
but yeah most big tanks I saw had 3 bastion of might, 1 deafening and after that whatever
winged grail
I'll give it a try
steel mauve
ya its been good to really strong in m+ since traits became a thing
high sierra
if you're lucky you can get 3 bastion, 2 iron fortress and 1 deafening crash together
sick sentinel
that's not lucky
you want 3 bastions, 2heart and 1 dc
IF is kinda trivial compared to heart
high sierra
2 heart ? I only do M+ and I only have 15 corrupt atm
sick sentinel
heart of darkness
high sierra
only have r3 TD
yeah I know, which is not that useful for me considering my actual corruption
sick sentinel
do you use formless?
high sierra
no
outer lark
What essences do I want for M+?
high sierra
you mean strengh of the warden ? yeah but it's only r1 atm, came back from a really really long break
sick sentinel
VoP/Lucid major, cns, sphere, lucid/vop minor
hallow phoenix
I enjoy CnS major in TD
high sierra
atm I'm playing vop major and lucid/warden/aegis for minors, I feel invincible lol
really looking forward to getting my ass kicked in big keys
high sierra
as minor?
hallow phoenix
yeah
high sierra
mmmh
high sierra
icyveins got me confused then
for m+ they said use lucid, aegis and cns, if you need corrupt res take warden
so I assumed it would replace cns
warm plinth
I'd replace Aegis with warden. I don't think they intended those to be any specific order for the minors.
high sierra
yeah but my cns is rank 2 tho 😮
warm plinth
Then use Aegis instead of C&S
hallow phoenix
The problem with aegis is it does next to nothing on bosses
high sierra
came back from a break so most of my essences are behind
high sierra
well my warden is r1
so maybe I should try getting those heart traits
and get cns r2 instead of warden
warm plinth
Warden's primary use is the corruption resistance so if you don't need the CR, don't use it
high sierra
well I'm far from 40 so I guess I'm ok atm
but to get high ilvl heart of darkness I presume I need to raid
warm plinth
Yeah I think the highest you can get outside of raid is 445
And to get that you'd have to get it from the assault cache
limpid pawn
shit i missed the responses - psychic shell/sigil of warding
you guys using this for higher keys?
I tried the shell for a few runs, it was pretty decent
warm plinth
Shell is good in high M+
limpid pawn
not sigil?
pure pond
Long CD
hallow phoenix
plus dont you have to stand still
opal python
is 460 shield r3 twilight better or 475 shield r2 twilight?
warm plinth
ilevel > all on shield
Damage-wise the R3 TD would be better but 15 ilevels on a shield is huge for survival
inland mesa
I wish I had that problem
warm plinth
ikr
opal python
lool
inland mesa
I havent gotten a new shield or good corruption yet :(
sick sentinel
Just buy a shield
west kayak
Prolly shouldn't ask this as I know better, but... 470 shield or 460 w/ EV2?
sick sentinel
470 shield
always
always
ilvl on shield
corruption is trivial
if u die to use it
grand spruce
is undying gift the new major?
was watching a video from a tank called Rads recommending it
grand spruce
hmm
near ivy
TfB?
hallow phoenix
maybe the orange soul thingies that explode?
i could also see obelisks coded as creatures
opal python
475 shield with r2 twilight means i shouldn't rly switch it for raiding (pure single target bosses) until i guess i get 475 shield either with or without corruption
cuz having the ilvl rly makes a diff, and i guess i'll just resort to using a low rank infinite stars on another slot
craggy harness
Does the shield boe in nya come with corruption?
hallow phoenix
not guaranteed
west kayak
I just got two of those shields, w/corruption, from the trash in front on Vexiona. So they can get corrupted.
left hatch
can does not mean guaranteed
left hatch
that drops from current content*
real thunder
Quick question, for N'Zoth's Basher Tentacle add...when it does "Void Lash" attack i heard you can take side step most of the follow up rapid attacks...i kept trying to do it but couldn't dodge them
am i being trolled?
opal python
When I'm sinning for m+ what's the better option? Hectice add cleave or dungeon slice?
Swimming*
Simming. Fking phone..
warm plinth
Neither
Single target patchwerk for 3 mins, and then I usually do a 1 1/2-2 min sim for 5 target patchwerk
opal python
hmm
flat jackal
mythic faralos worth the corruption?
left hatch
no more worth it than any other level of searing breath
its not like IS it doesn't scale with ilvl
left hatch
tbh its not awful for 30
but if you already have other options then yah its pretty shit lol
left hatch
id run it with budget
but yah if itll put you much passed 50 range
eh
sounds like a cleanse to me, but gz on mythic wep (:
flat jackal
Thanks 🙂
sterile mantle
is racing worth the ilvl decrease (Raid bots sims it higher)
i pick up 460 boots by doing it
terse arch
Hey guys do you prioritise ilvl or good traits like stacking 3 bastion of mights
sick sentinel
I am 475 shielded boys. Time to afk until shadowlands
limpid pawn
is hivemind considered a hard fight?
rare bolt
it's heavier on execution than the first 3 or liek shadhar
west galleon
it's pretty easy in terms of dps and mechanics
requires somewhat good healing
but like roly polies/targetting darters is like all u do that fight
distant crystal
issa healer fight
sweet summit
@terse arch the only trait you drop ilvl for is the first DC trait, and you only really drop 15 ilvls for it. BoM is nice, but dont drop ilvl for BoM
terse arch
Thanks mate noted
sick sentinel
@limpid pawn that fight has a lot to do with boss movement. There is a lot we can do as tanks to position bosses so that those Rollies don’t smoke raid members but ultimately in boils down to dps nuking adds quickly
Imo probably the hardest boss out of the first 5 you kill but others will disagree
left hatch
xanesh is the hardest imo but thats also cause i got a lot of 4heads in my raid
at least the most frustrating
sick sentinel
Yeah that is the pants on head boss
But in terms of actual difficulty I’d say hivemind is prob more difficult
left hatch
for sure
coarse dust
Hey, we are progressing on hive with 2 bdks and 1 pally and I was wondering if a prot warri could be better to control the mobs than one of the bdk with the major conflict. If you have avatar that time you can root the adds permanently+ you can have more damage than a blood dk. What do you think? Would it make a difference?
ionic fern
If there's a slow stronger than 30% your root becomes useless.
mortal brook
theyre subject to diminishing returns as well yeah?
ionic fern
It should be fairly easy tho - we are doing it with 1 BDK.
Just massgrip into stuns/strong slows and nuke them down.
Check from logs who's not focusing them and /slap them in game.
Ggwp.
limpid pawn
we have like 50+ pulls on it now
im 100% doing positioning perfect at this point
people are getting hit by the rollies
ionic fern
Well, unfortunately there's nothing you can do about that as a tank.
mortal brook
thats a heck
limpid pawn
yeah, ugh that sucks
mortal brook
moving character is hard
coarse dust
Hmm yeah maybe a blood dk is better. Btw why do they spawn in the other part of the room if we are all stacked?
It takes like 10 seconds to grip them to melee because they are too far away
mortal brook
its not based on your location
crimson furnace
ionic fern
@coarse dust before the first spawn just move both of the bosses to middle of the room for a easier grip.
coarse dust
As I know they "fixate" targets and fly to their locations, but when they are so far away they are just flying there and casting
@ionic fern after the first rolling guys?
ionic fern
Yeah.
sick sentinel
We also had a uhdk go out and help manage adds
coarse dust
Because its maybe safer if you stand on the edge of the room and the darters that time will overlapp with the rollers
ionic fern
So at the start
1)Pull both of them to 1 designated spot
2)Wait for first rollerboys
3)Pull both bosses to middle
4)MassGrip
kind prairie
anodized deflectors any good?
warm plinth
Not particularly
kind prairie
I have 455 of those, or some regular bracers with haste/crit at 440
maiden ravine
I don't care if you don't know the route of the dungeon perfectly, but don't effing lie and say you do and then instantly do stuff that proves you don't.
kind prairie
look bro I know to always stack on the boxes for the dog in workshop. that way he runs into it and hurts himself.
rigid sinew
maiden ravine
Grr, just frustrated
ionic fern
👀
maiden ravine
got my 4th freaking Tol Dagor key of the week
brittle owl
imagine doing more than a weekly this week lmao
ionic fern
I still need to do a weekly on my warrior. 😦
maiden ravine
Well this is an alt who started with a 4, my main has had 2 or 3 TDs and she started with an 11, I've done a 14, still trying to get a 15
I'm just tired of getting Tol Dagor. Starting to get some stockholm syndrome going on with the place where I'm thinking "it's not so hard"
brittle owl
getting into a 15 is piss easy doe as a tank
idk why but like
it's easier than other seasons
ionic fern
It's been pretty easy each season tho.
maiden ravine
even this season you better have 2k io to get into 15s right now
brittle owl
the tank draught started to be a thing in s3 imo
lolwut
i did 2 weeks of weekly key with pugging
on main where i literally did like
ionic fern
@maiden ravine i'm getting invited to +11-13 as a gdruid with 400 io.
brittle owl
5 keys before yesterday
ionic fern
👀
maiden ravine
What ilvl?
ionic fern
446
ionic fern
No one cares about ilvl tho.
brittle owl
and if they do
maiden ravine
Then I don't know what the hell is going on for me
brittle owl
you don't want in
maiden ravine
I have 460 showing, 1300 rio, and I can't get anything over a 12 unless it's my own key
as prot
brittle owl
i mean
having a few 15's done in time or not
helps
1.3k io is kinda bushleague this season
2k is the new 1.6k now
maiden ravine
it's the catch-22, can't prove you can do it until you get there, but no one will take that chance
brittle owl
^
the io climb takes roughly a week of doing keys
if you go from scratch
or
could just upgrade your key
maiden ravine
more than that if you can only pug on NA Alliance
ionic fern
I did that climb in Legion when i was pugging a lot.
maiden ravine
I've been trying, I had a 14 ToS, we barely missed it, then I got my 3rd GLORIOUS TD of the week
brittle owl
lower population means the cutoff 'point' where you get insta invited is lower
ionic fern
I'm EU alliance so it's gucci. 😂
maiden ravine
people couldn't do the 13 or the 12, I finished the 11 but wasn't in time, so instead of trying to re-push a 10, I played an alt today
It's explosive week and people don't understand the concept of, "split the dps to cover explosive"
ionic fern
Just pug - find people who are decent - ask them if they wanna do more keys/add them to btag. next time play together.
maiden ravine
And healers who refuse to cast a sun fire
brittle owl
split the dps to cover explosive
what does that even mean
get an outlaw, nullify explosive
inland silo
explosives are mostly on tank and healer
west galleon
lol
brittle owl
you realise an outlaw
maiden ravine
On the last boss when you have 4 hexxers all spawning explosive
ionic fern
@inland silo wat.
ionic fern
I don't think i've touched a explosive in a very long time just because of outlaw/fury/DH
😂
brittle owl
^
maiden ravine
maybe rogues are more common once you get to 15+
brittle owl
you're inting if you're having just the tank and healer do explosives
sharp night
tanks can barely even kill explosive at this point
ionic fern
I mean, i'm not actively avoiding explosives but it's just that they die so god damn fast due to those classes.
brittle owl
dep on tank
inland silo
if we pull like the entire slime room in KR then yea ill hit them
otherwise its insanely easy for hpal or druid to take care of them
brittle owl
or
sharp night
most tanks can kill maybe 1 since all the hard hitting abilities are on a cd
sharp night
unless you proc resets
brittle owl
you know how blade flurry is an outlaw ability right
maiden ravine
I totally had a resto druid say he couldn't cast anything on explosives
Do you know how rare outlaw rogues are? 😄
brittle owl
that duplicates attacks to every mob in range
ionic fern
There's 3 rogues for every other class in m+
brittle owl
key range means nothing
ionic fern
EU NA Alliance sounds like a scuffed place
maiden ravine
NA Alliance
sharp night
all of those specs are fine at killing orbs too
brittle owl
eu alliance is a scuffed place
sharp night
well maybe not sham if ele
ionic fern
We got a TON of rogues in every key range.
sharp night
all 3 mage specs can oneshot without really losing dps
maiden ravine
EU must be special haha
brittle owl
tabbing to an orb means not increasing that ignite
maiden ravine
yeah, of my "current" best runs, only 3 dungeons had any rogues in them
brittle owl
whereas outlaw loses 0 dps, literally, fury loses very little to 0, dh loses absurdly little
i don't think i ever had a dung with a rogue
sharp night
well it's not strictly 0 but it's significantly less than other specs
brittle owl
but that's just cause i faceroll memed all my keys so far
sharp night
all the overkill damage is technically lost
sharp night
rip soul spawning
brittle owl
does VR still work on explo
ionic fern
No.
sharp night
nope
maiden ravine
but yeah, and of the 3 dungeons I've had rogues, I don't even know if they were all outlaw even
sharp night
still hasn't been fixed
sharp night
same problem as dh orbs probably
they changed explo to not count as a "mob giving xp" or whatever
sharp night
yea that's why i said tanks are all kinda bad now lol
ionic fern
Paladins can almost one shot them with Judgment tho, no?
sharp night
you have to waste a lot of resources if you want to kill orbs as tank
or have a cd
yes they can still oneshot
but it has a cd
opal python
was wondering if on wrathion myth its better of using ignore pain over shield block? like what's the fine line between them two? should i make sure to have shield block up whenever possible and dump any other rage into ignore pain or?
left hatch
do you have threat? if so SB should be up
ionic fern
@opal python while there's a lot of magic damage going on in that fight it should all be covered with CD's since you know when it's coming.
While actively tanking you should still have SB up as Morrison said , after having assured that you can dump rage into IP.
opal python
@left hatch @ionic fern thanks!
maiden ravine
2 chested the 10 workshop, woo
course I get another bane of my existence, a 12 motherlode
maiden ravine
I'm gonna do my best to time it cause it'll be 20 additional rio
I don't mind seige
ionic fern
Siege is fine after the obelisk change.
maiden ravine
I need to time this 12 motherlode, and then time an 11 or 12 AD and Underrot to get to 1400
ionic fern
Good luck.
maiden ravine
I'm gonna try, cause I so want 475 loot over 470 haha
deep folio
Vita 460 and barnacle 470 is that a good combo of trinkets guys?
brittle owl
🤔
sweet summit
All those 3 are better than barnacle
Id take block, block slaps
maiden ravine
I have trash trinkets
brittle owl
sim it to be sure
deep folio
aye will do ty guys
tropic oriole
Which ilvl should a trinket have to switch out the mechagon trinket with haste punchard ?
ionic fern
Which trinket?
tropic oriole
Pocket sized computing device
ionic fern
I mean which trinkets do you have available outside of the Mechagon one.
tropic oriole
450 rezan
ionic fern
And what's your other trinket you are using in your other slot?
ionic fern
Mechagon one is assumably low ilvl?
ionic fern
Use Rezans/block.
ionic fern
Probably jeah.
marble cipher
for dps, chances are high that it is yes
marble cipher
(also depending on what corruption level you'd end up on all of a sudden, if it moves you up a tier, I usually don't take the ilvl drop if I don't feel comfortable with it)
mortal brook
you wont miss it
marble cipher
I dropped 55 ilvl on ring for dps, it's fine 😉
raw turtle
for weapons ilvl is always priority right? 460 splitter vs 465 cudgel
mortal brook
60 ilvl on wrists for a TD3 😄 worth
tropic oriole
Ok, great. Good to know 😉
marble cipher
yeah, my ring is TD3 too, dropped 465 -> 410 ring... (so 55 ilvl drop, but meh, ring)
maiden ravine
my mage has td3 ring, I'm jealous of her
I'm torn between using td2 gloves and ev3 boots
ionic fern
TD2 in AoE situations.
mortal brook
do both!
raw turtle
which option should i pick to sim for aoe?
undone sun
Patchwerk 3 or 5 Target
maiden ravine
Finally settled on the 3 chars I wanna focus on, warrior is my main obviously, but I like mage and druid a lot
I think next week I'll manage to 2 mask clear SW with the nerfs haha
sharp night
idk how anyone manages multiple chars this season lol
marble cipher
it's annoying to keep up more than one, I try three, but I don't raid mythic so I got a bit more time than some others
tropic oriole
I just started again since MOP in 8.2. and I would not want to grind rep for essences again any time soon
sharp night
was very strange going from all classes/specs in legion for a few years to playing only one because the grind is too insane
ionic fern
Jeap.
sharp night
essences were bad but at least they had an end
now there's corruption rng to deal with on top of it
and there's no way i'm getting bis corruptions on multiple chars
sharp night
can barely even get corruption to drop in the first place
tropic oriole
Well, I don't raid. Just m+. And i am not playing on a high level. So this corruption rng is not affecting me that much
sharp night
corruption rng is more important in m+ than raid imo
tropic oriole
Not on my level tbh 😄
sharp night
if you don't have td3 you're like automatically huge dps behind for pushing compared to someone who does
ionic fern
Most people don't push tho so it's w/e for them.
tropic oriole
The way it is right now is somehow pay to win, I agree
sharp night
so i can't be bothered to try getting td3 on multiple chars and then farming cloak to be able to use it without getting killed by corruption etc
hoping SL is more like legion where i can gear any class/spec quickly rather than bfa
mortal brook
not the worst dps to corruption. but if you have better options, maybe. I've got a 475 shield i cant wear till next week with more resist 😄
brittle owl
if you can spare it
i wouldn't cleanse
since you don't know 1.5 months from now
what corruptions you;ll have access to
opal python
so is it entirely situational or is conflict major actually a strong option for high keys regardless on most affixes?
ionic fern
Situational.
And that situation being Necrotic (if no other slows over 30% exist in the grp).
Imagine running CnS major in Sanguine weeks.
ionic fern
Why would it be good with bolster?
If you bolster something so much that you have to kite it your grp fucked up somewhere.
ionic fern
Plus in terms of kiting it's safer to Stun->Leap.
opal python
^^ yh been doing that
ionic fern
AuG major is VERY situational.
Memory of lucid dreams major should also be only used in high keys if you can play around it
VoP major should be your default go-to.
opal python
ok, and for minors im using aegis/null/strength but im thinking if i drop strength for formless?
would that be better overall for dmg and mitigation?
ionic fern
I'd advice you to drop Null instead.
The "default" setup for m+ should be something in the lines of
VoP major
And for minors you can choose depending on what you have available:
CnS/Lucid/Strength/Sphere/Aegis
opal python
hmm
i've gotta wait for r3 cns as this is an alt, all others ive got r3
is formless not good for keys then?
ionic fern
You can run r2 cns as well.
It depends on what majors the others are running and how they are actually using them. 🙂
opal python
aight cheers mate ^
rough egret
is it worth to play it as major?
ionic fern
Well, hope you learned something from that key @maiden ravine so you can do better next time.
opal python
@rough egret Mwahi just explained earlier, but i guess maybe super high keys and ones like kr
ionic fern
@rough egret it's very situational in m+.
E.g you can use it on KR fortified keys for Zul/Zerkers as a extra CD.
rough egret
I will scroll it sry didnt notice that
maiden ravine
I did, I finally have the last boss down, but ugh.. dps is so low these days, or Azerokk just has way too much hp
brittle owl
dps is bad
but on a 2
you should be able to comfortably carry every aspect of the key if you're decently geared
maiden ravine
Except I'm not, I'm schlupping around in 450 azerite, haha
ionic fern
That's not horrible tho.
maiden ravine
I'll try to time this 11 underrot tomorrow
ionic fern
Wait, i'm confused.
So you depleted a +2 but will try to time a +11?
maiden ravine
I have no once timed a motherlode this season on my warrior
I just can't get really good dps, and there hasn't been a week yet when you can do big pulls in there
maybe next week
brittle owl
the only horrible thing with sang in ML is dps positioning terribly and making the ragey dudes charge through the pools 🤷
maiden ravine
there's that, and I just don't know. Everything in ML just feels like it takes forever to die and thus the dungeon is never ending
maiden ravine
Last week was too fr me
ionic fern
Any bolstering week in ML is horrible.
brittle owl
^
maiden ravine
I had just as much difficulty last week because it was fort trash
sharp night
you can play around bolstering with some creative routes
brittle owl
last week was fort volcanic or some stuff?
sharp night
but it requires some cc
maiden ravine
last week was sang/quaking
maiden ravine
again, cramped as hell dungeon made spreading quaking hard.
brittle owl
free week
sharp night
last week was lowkey push week
maiden ravine
Nah, it's next week
sharp night
people sleeping on it because it was awful in s3
ionic fern
What's next week?
maiden ravine
Burst/Volc
ionic fern
Eeeeh.
maiden ravine
I mean if a healer like Jak is excited for next week why not be
brittle owl
fam, bursting is the worst week for pugs
maiden ravine
I'm hoping that with it being fort people won't be able to kill stuff too fast
ionic fern
Are you doing keys with a dedicated grp of decent people as Jak?
brittle owl
it's even worse than bolst since you have 0 control outside of doing baby pulls
ionic fern
^
maiden ravine
well then it won't change anything except bosses won't be as bad
jolly thistle
bursting gets easier the higher the key
ionic fern
Bursting gets easier with a more dedicated grp. *
brittle owl
stop spouting stuff you hear from youtube videos without understanding the context or premis
dratnos is saying that because the higher the key the more competent the people and the higher you go the likelier you are to get into a dedicated group
maiden ravine
I don't watch youtube, this was him on stream after he complained about this week and said he was looking forward to next
jolly thistle
Ok
sharp night
well that's not necessarily true
stark ruin
bursting is "easier" the higher the key is also because it's damage doesn't scale with key level - and higher health mobs are eaiser to stagger properly
maiden ravine
at least next week I won't have to wait for a pull to be entirely done before I can move on.
stark ruin
and also the more competent people aspect of it
sharp night
even if you mess up burst at higher keys it usually takes longer to kill a mob so it's less likely to refresh
brittle owl
just 1 refresh on a 5 stack is enough to kill you
and you can do that just as easy on a high key as you would on a low key
sharp night
idk anyone that'd wipe to a 5 stack refresh lol
brittle owl
going 5 stack and refreshing on the last tick?
stark ruin
it will be less frequent on a high key and people will recognise it as a mistake, hence pay attention afterward
maiden ravine
Regardless, I think I'm just ready to try and deal with bursting rather than more bolstering
brittle owl
gl
sharp night
i mean
5 stack is only 70% maxhp, unless your healer is literally
afk
refreshing to 6 won't kill you
ionic fern
Why are you even arguing about this.
Literally comes down to how good the healer is and what other damage is going on meanwhile.
jolly thistle
It’s not only up to the healer
ionic fern
I've wiped to being refreshed from 5 to 6 stacks just because there was AoE damage going around and people were at like 50% HP when the refresh happened.
🤷
maiden ravine
it is actually harder to stagger too some with all the uncontrollable aoe we do, but I'm still willing to try that more
I'm actually kinda disappointed with the fury warrior I had in the ML12 after looking at his gear
maiden ravine
I think it was the essences.... VoP major, and then focusing iris and CLF minors... oooof. No wonder his damage was so poor
hallow phoenix
16 Shrine failed by a min 😦
one day i'll get a timed 15+ shrine
boomie did 39k overall dps D:
ionic fern
👀
hallow phoenix
😭
sweet summit
mortal brook
maiden ravine
shrine is actually manageable now
frail oar
is Lingering Psychic Shell good for raiding ? I heard there was a change, but I don't know if it's a good one
sweet summit
Its good for soaking big nukes like ilgy beams
hollow sentinel
If I use VOP major (as I forget using flames too often) , which minors should I consider for dps? I thought strife, flame and null, but I have seen symbiotic presence too lately
ionic fern
For what? Raids or m+?
hallow phoenix
strife flame null is probably best then
assuming raids
void minor if you need resistance
can just sim tho
maiden ravine
Strife, suppression, and I think lucid are the minors I currently have equipped
glad berry
Does avatar increase dmg from echoing voids?
ionic fern
No. @glad berry
deep folio
is EVs damage increased when using last stand as its based on your hp?
sick sentinel
yes
deep folio
thank you 🙂
any tips for prot on carapace fight dps are complaining boss is not at tentacle when it comes down or not at void when it spawns tho maddening bomb makes moving him an issue
sweet summit
Leap to tentacle. If dps players are standing on you with bomb, they fucked up. Just make sure the dps players are able to hit the eye and can cleave off fury of nzoth
ionic fern
Remember that you can immune/dispell Maddening bomb on yourself with BR.
graceful pine
Got the Wrathion weapon last night, but haven't had chance to try it out! Is the effect any good?
sweet summit
The weapon effect isnt that great compared to other corruption effects
sweet summit
TD 3 is WAY better than the weapon effect
graceful pine
😭 blizzard fails again at itemisation!
sweet summit
Why?
nimble cosmos
for tanking M+, are the raid trinkets any good?
sweet summit
Vita and scale is good
graceful pine
Creating a tank weapon with a unique corruption that is practically unusable in light of another stronger effect
sweet summit
Nzoth one is situational
graceful pine
I really wanted to pretend to be a dragon as well
nimble cosmos
scale?
sweet summit
Trinket from wrathion
Humming black dragon scale i think
The weapon from wrathion is cool yea, you can keep it if you want sure. But td will do a lot more damage overall in a dungeon. For ST youd have to sim it i guess
glass finch
Single target would be similar, sword does 5% of health every 30 abilities and TD can proc for 3x that and more often
nimble cosmos
thanks for the tips
graceful pine
Aye, a real dissapointment. Guess I hope I get a 2nd so don't feel bad for cleansing. 475 with socket is too much of an upgrade to just not use
signal plover
I don't think they're done with tuning yet and TD could get a slight nerf down the line as well
tame garden
Hopefully
strong forum
It should
modern brook
is r.io down for anyone else
Also yeah expect TD nerfs
although tbh i cant imagine a reason anyone would be cleansing corruption rn with the volatility of new gear being a very established precedent across this entire expansion and honestly most of Legion as well
unless ur like me and thought cleansing would give u titan residuum :^(
ebon hound
Why would you think that? 🤔 Not trying to bash you, genuinely curious
modern brook
Cause im a fucking 🐒 who just dreams about not having to raid to get azerite pieces :/
I also didnt read anything about this patch before resubbing so
modern brook
just sorta winging the content
Yeah i was getting a cloudflare thing when i tried to login
as great a site as it is; it definitely gives russian mafia vibes
final mist
They’ve been having server issues for a while
Load just too big for them to reliably handle
On busy nights, it gets real bad
modern brook
i guess thats a good problem to have
but they must have a weird ass contract to not have resolved it already w/ stronger servers
leaden grail
So, following this conversation, the wrathion weapon corruption is pretty bad? Hast anyone compared it to echoing void r3?
forest jetty
Hi everyone , I have wpn and boots with Ineffable truth which reduces cd time by 50% for 10 sec. wowhead said its not worth it compared to others i have a rank 2 void ritual and a 5% leech should i drop one of the truths for void?
warm plinth
It’s way worse than echoing void T3 for both DPS and DPC
That was in response to @leaden grail btw
I’d probably use VR over Ineffable just going off numbers I’ve seen
forest jetty
If you have 2 of same corruption does it lengthen time they work or are they independent of each other? And ty @warm plinth for info
warm plinth
It’s pretty similar to traits as far as I’ve seen. Durations stay the same but the stats or effects themselves stack.
E.g. if you have two T2 EV, you’d get 1.2% max health for each proc.
But proc rate and shit would stay the same
tame garden
Ty @warm plinth
warm plinth
Yw @tame garden
exotic spoke
Morning Prot chat
ionic fern
👋
exotic spoke
How’s it going Mwahi
oblique garnet
@exotic spoke did you have a list as to how many runs are needed for each cloak upgrade?
exotic spoke
Yeah, I updated it too. Let me find it Late
I currently have 4 banked right now and its more than enough to get a cloak upgrade each week. I can probably spend 1 or 2 - but I know I'll miss some later on so am playing it safe
oblique garnet
I was looking for one that tells me what i need to do for each lvl
exotic spoke
Next week is 4 runs with medium zones
warm plinth
https://www.wowhead.com/news=305514/patch-8-3-legendary-cloak-stats-and-overview-no-capes-from-nyalotha-and-weekly-c#upgrading-the-cloak-weekly-gated This is correct except for 10 and 11 (which are 3 and 4 respectively) and 15 (which is 9)
ionic fern
I'm doing fine @exotic spoke and you?:)
exotic spoke
Can't complain. I caught up on a lot of sleep this weekend since I've been pretty busy these past couple weeks.
warm plinth
So to have enough for R15 I'm basically going to have to have unopened caches right?
exotic spoke
Not necessarily but it helps
dense plaza
is there like a go to guide for essences in M+?
warm plinth
Well, I mean to have enough in the week it's available
exotic spoke
Icy veins has a list of defensive essences, which is probably best to use defensive if you’re pushing keys
warm plinth
Since you can't get 9 vessels in one week
native mantle
Wait, aren't the caches 'unique'?
native mantle
Someone on reddit (I think) mentioned that if you put the vessels in the bank you can have an extra 5?
Does this work at all and if it does, does it still work?
warm plinth
🤔 I doubt it. Unique items have never worked that way before.
native mantle
Ye I know
warm plinth
The game knows you have them in the bank
native mantle
Btw, the table posted a bit earlier is current, right?
warm plinth
Yeah
native mantle
It's for WM off right?
exotic spoke
Yes, it’s accurate with the changes. The 4.5 isn’t the max you can get - just the most without major grinding
exotic spoke
Yup. It built in some safety / slack
native mantle
Aha, what does it account for skipping?
exotic spoke
Well, you get between 6-8 dailies a day. So I went with 6
And the warmode could be 10%- 25-%
native mantle
OOOoh, oh my god.
I always thught it was like 4 for the main + mini, and 3 for the lesser vision
warm plinth
Nope, just seems random to me
warm plinth
And the 6-8 if I'm not mistaken isn't counting the mini vision
native mantle
yeah, that's a separate thing
modern brook
wow im stupid af
native mantle
lel
ruby nexus
Wm is 30%
native mantle
on alliance, maybe
warm plinth
Depends on the week and your faction
exotic spoke
1 major, 11000 from 2 minor assaults. 12000 from daily visions, 10500-14000 before warmode
warm plinth
Horde has never had more than 15% I think
And that was one week
Whereas alliance has consistently been 20-30% the entire time
ruby nexus
Has been 30% for eu alliance since patch i think
native mantle
ye, 11000 + 12000 from mini visions + 14000 from dailies (base WM) + 1000 from locked chests
or the mini vision grind over the course of the week
is how I did my math
warm plinth
Yeah, I played alliance until like mid-S2 and it dropped down to 20 at one point
On NA Alliance
native mantle
but i assume I'm wrong now about the dailies
exotic spoke
So 1 vessel + 33,500-37,000 coalescing visions before warmode and before any other things like Bounties / events / farming in the daily visions
native mantle
ye
warm plinth
I am definitely not gonna have R15 the first week lol
I've been using a lot of vessels for mask runs
exotic spoke
So it is very easy to get to 5 with a little grinding / doing it in warmode / whatever. But i did 4.5 just as a safety measure to prove it’s doable at the minimum effort. There are actually a ton of extra runs if you did everything every day
exotic spoke
Ghash, you can get rank 15 week one if you have some right now (or even if you don’t)
warm plinth
Yeah but I'd have to stop using my extras which is kinda :/
exotic spoke
How many do you have right now?
native mantle
technically,
if you do 5 a week (so a bit of effort)
if you start saving from the week after this one you will have the R15 the end of the same week
if yo uwanna get it very early on, ye might have to actually save up from now :D
exotic spoke
Yes, but I like planning a little bit of safety into it. I know, for example, I can’t get all the dailies done on raid nights. I get home from work, log in to raid, do daily visions, do a m+ or two, and log out
So, the sheet was created by me for my group and reflects things like that 🙂
modern brook
Didnt know the alliance were allowed to M+ tbh
brittle owl
kek
modern brook
😎
exotic spoke
Alliance racials > horde racials for M+ silly Bullfango you know better
modern brook
😬 then why cant they time a 12?
sweet summit
strength of the warden actually feels good
50% overhealing does not feel good tho
exotic spoke
NElf, when specifically laying out routes to accommodate for shadowmeld, is really good if everyone has it
But formless void rosjen
sweet summit
yea thats what i usually run, ive just done some runs with strenght of the warden to test it out
exotic spoke
You just get healing when you don’t need it 😦
sweet summit
yea :/
native mantle
@exotic spoke i was only trying to tell that to ghash120etd sicne he was asking
exotic spoke
Yeah 🙂
warm plinth
Yeah I know it's possible, but just don't really care for not doing visions just to wait for cloak ranks
exotic spoke
I’m excited for next week 🙂
Get to start working on sockets since I only need 8500 mementos or so to max out the tech tree
strong forum
'only'
exotic spoke
That’s like 2.5 runs Nome
strong forum
More like 8
exotic spoke
No, more like 2-2.5 for what I’m doing
strong forum
Ye cuz full stack, I guess everybody is hunting like 400 chests per run
I get to open like 1-2 chests
exotic spoke
Yeah, we get about 8-10 chests
exotic spoke
Plus the one for the crystals
exotic spoke
We get the ones we see as we clear along the path
I wonder if firewater will help@you loot those faster
warm plinth
How the shit did you only get 2.5k mementos from 3 runs, 2 of which were a mask clear
That's literally impossible
warm plinth
You get mementos other than the chests btw
strong forum
Ye still
warm plinth
The amount you see on the right while doing the vision is in addition to the objectives
exotic spoke
What is your cloak level and how far down the tech tree are you?
exotic spoke
Which mask did you use?
strong forum
The void zones
warm plinth
Yeah that's just...not possible. Idk how you're getting such a small amount lol
strong forum
Guess im bugged :)
left hatch
yah that seems off.... we were comfortably getting 2k+ per run before masks o.o
strong forum
Cuz I barel get 1k total from full clear + mask
exotic spoke
I don’t understand either unless you’re literally skipping everything possible.
modern brook
I'm already super bored of the visions tbh
exotic spoke
And no chests - even then that seems low
modern brook
in solo its "do you want to waste 10 minutes because u cant omega pull lest u get MEMED into a 12 second stun