the actual contribution to CDR isn't great
#protection
limpid pawn
haste +am?
left hatch
anger management
limpid pawn
yes but what if you have anger management and that corruption effect on top of each other
doesn't it reduce the cd's pretty well
left hatch
thats what im saying is the increased rage gen from haste
gives you comparably as much CDR
as ineffible
warm plinth
Ineffable Truth is what, 1ppm? And with T2 of it, you get basically 5 seconds shaved off your CDs over the 10 seconds it's active.
limpid pawn
and on top of AM< that' is significant no?
warm plinth
So you're shaving 5 seconds off per minute, which you can achieve with a haste corruption via AM
limpid pawn
5 seconds off avatar?
left hatch
no
limpid pawn
oh, what if you don't have haste corruption
warm plinth
5 seconds off everything
If it's your only option for corruption, there's no reason not to use it
left hatch
^
warm plinth
But you shouldn't keep it at the expense of a lot of others
left hatch
but in general damage procs > stat procs > stat % > IF
tbh id probably even take a leech corruption over IF
if i had the budget and no other choices
left hatch
its the same idea as Lucid
if you absolutely need it to live through burst damage
and have an idea how you'll use it roughly on CD
it serves that job very well
limpid pawn
are a lot of warriors using it?
left hatch
if you don't need it to live or are holding it as an oh shit button
then the haste trinkets will serve you better and overall reduce your ehrps
very very high end yes
because they literally need it to live some mechanics
but very very high end is also using Undying gift major
(mostly to always have something up for the tankbuster minoboss so you could rotate gift and psychic shell)
warm plinth
speaking of which, wonder if the 20% nerf is enough that we'll see less of the top dudes using AUG. That's pretty substantial.
left hatch
eh itll make a comback once ppl start pushing further into the 20's
warm plinth
For sure
left hatch
you also shouldn't judge 'what should i wear' based on the majority
a lot of warriors roll with sporepods
despite it being 
because they just don't know better and assume "oh this is a tank trnket at high ilvl it must be ok"
better way to approach it is learning what the trinket does for you with relation to your kit
and what situation that benefit will be strong in
limpid pawn
i have basically all the trinkets now
left hatch
Vita is a good instalock
limpid pawn
and am ultra comfortable with swapping them in/out
i've been using 460 vita + 475 wrathion most of my keys
they seem good for sure
left hatch
yeh thatll do you for like 90% of content
limpid pawn
i just got nzoth trinket though, and I was wondering if it would serve me better
left hatch
Block is very strong as well, particularly on necrotic
limpid pawn
I like to pull huge if possible
left hatch
6s absorb won't save you in a huge pull
its more for burst damage like tank busters
so itll see way more value in progression raiding
like hte ilgy beam on mythic
what you're sticking with is gonna last you up to 17/18 range
limpid pawn
when you say "block is very strong"
limpid pawn
oh i know, i thouht you meant trinket nerfed
limpid pawn
is it not anymore?
left hatch
nah they changed... something
i think they changed the cap DR it can scale up to with corruption res
its still great for its niche in raid
but its not game breaking
oblique garnet
Nzoths trinket?
left hatch
yah
limpid pawn
its 80% damage reduction with a limit of 223812 damage
oblique garnet
Was it changed today?
limpid pawn
no
left hatch
no when they changed the tooltip
limpid pawn
we are discussing if it got nerfed
left hatch
they reworked how it worked
oblique garnet
Then its still very strong trinket for m+
limpid pawn
if i have all the trinkets, which 2 would I be using most of the time late?
strong forum
for high keys psychic shell +... prolly wrathion / gore block
marble cipher
My guild is trying to get people to go BoD mythic for the Jaina mount (now that she drops two).
How awesome is an opulence trinket if it titans to 455? (I know, veeeeeery small chance but still)
strong forum
its the best defensive trinket assuming equal ilvl
a 430 diamond is equal to a 445 urchin in terms of HPS
marble cipher
Atm I'm wearing wrath + titanshard, farming gore block though
strong forum
roughly
marble cipher
K, thanks
Is wrathion or titan the better of the two for M+? In case I get gore block
analog zinc
titan?
marble cipher
Or just sim I guess
strong forum
wrathion has big boi uptime and static str,
vita has low uptime but big proc
analog zinc
oh you mean vita
marble cipher
Titanshard, oh, vita, whatever, the raden haste one
analog zinc
wrathion is small proc with super high uptime
vita is big proc with low uptime
marble cipher
Wrathion gives cool wings though, bonus points there
strong forum
vita doesnt have str, whereas wrathion does
analog zinc
what stat does vita give?
urban briar
good morning i finally got my last level of professions what do i want for pant/belt what should i be rolling for?
analog zinc
@urban briar haste
sweet summit
haste
strong forum
vita is double down on haste
urban briar
haste and what?
random urchin
Vita gives haste and has a haste proc
analog zinc
since strength sucks
strong forum
yes?!
random urchin
Str is good
analog zinc
when main stat sucks for literally every other class
strong forum
only for dps
random urchin
What are you smoking
analog zinc
i only use main stat food when i'm too lazy to click secondary food
let me sim this shit
undone sun
So what you do dictates how it is for everyone else
marble cipher
Should try and find Mythic Wrathion pugs weekly I guess, for an even higher trinket.
Though fairly sure those runs are still aids 😜
random urchin
😑
analog zinc
& how is str better defensively
urban briar
so lol which should i be rolling for pants/belt?
strong forum
armor and scaling
analog zinc
you got any math to back that up?
analog zinc
ilvl is a huge stat increase overall
random urchin
Huge for primaries, not so much for secondaries
marble cipher
@urban briar craft one of each for ilvl first, hope for crit/haste for M+, don't know stats for raiding though
analog zinc
here's defensive stat scaling for prot pally
idk if anything like it exists for war
but i can't imagine it's the exact opposite
rose furnace
Best trinkets for me to run for M+ tanking? I have a 460 butcher block, vita, and dragonscale
455 jes howler
left hatch
jes isn't fantastic
pick your poison with block vita and wrathion
theres no haste cap so double haste trinks arn't bad
naive mauve
Haben wir hier auch deutschsprachige Leute? 😉
analog zinc
oh & wrathion
wooden radish
linking a defensive sim 😒
warm plinth
@wooden radish Hi 👋
wooden radish
@warm plinth what's up D
analog zinc
@wooden radish hi
warm plinth
Selling boosts 😏 Making dat 💸
wooden radish
you in gallywix?
warm plinth
Yessir
wooden radish
oh nice
limpid pawn
Ghash what do you make for your runs
hardy vault
Hey guys how good is the Shield that drops in junkyard? Just got it with a socket in 465
warm plinth
Ghash what do you make for your runs
@limpid pawn What do you mean?
Hey guys how good is the Shield that drops in junkyard? Just got it with a socket in 465
@hardy vault Use it if it's your highest ilevel shield. The effect is pretty trash, but ilevel is king on shields.
eager rose
The gold @warm plinth how much do you make per m+ run
warm plinth
Oh, depends on level/extra shit
limpid pawn
On average
analog zinc
@hardy vault worst shield in the game
so if you have any other shield at same ilvl use that
idk if socket changes anything
eager rose
Ya @warm plinth how much do you make depending on the specifics?
strong forum
for 15s i get like 90k per key
exotic rapids
What do you guys think about the Workshop trinket? Modular Platinum Plating?
exotic rapids
I see
sick sentinel
Can we get an emote for it pls
exotic rapids
Wanna see my 465 trinkets? Spore, Modular, and Jes 😦
And 455 Brinescale
which does a decent amount of dmg
urban briar
for raid do i juzt zim zingle target on zingle target fightz?
strong forum
yez
rose furnace
ZIP ZOP ZOOBITY BOP
strong forum
zip zoopy ima touch your cooty
spice yacht
!trinkets
what trinkets should I aim to get to push high M+ this season
I prefer defensive
at least one defensive
strong forum
Nzoth trinket
remote badger
Gore-Crusted Butcher's Block from Waycrest is solid as an offensive trinket, If you have a 455 socketed Urchin from Ashvane it's still going to be very strong. I think the strongest active is probably Lingering Psychic Shell from N'Zoth
spice yacht
thanks guys
dark lark
pick 2 for both damage and defensive purposes: 470 alch trinket, 460 raden vita, 460 dragonscale
leaning alch and vita
surreal thunder
Can you SR thing from beyond?
warm plinth
Yes
surreal thunder
ty
remote badger
You can also SR the affix from the lost zones in Horrific Visions
warm plinth
lusty grotto
🖕 ghash
warm plinth
❤️ You coming back to retail yet? imy
lusty grotto
i need 5.7k more AV rep on my alt
then ill do my cloak
or maybe ill do it tonight idk
my brother and our dh are bothering me every single day about it
cobalt ore
what essences is everyone wearing this weak?
spice yacht
how good is the stacking crit?
cause it gives me 35 corruption which is too much for me now but its a good shield so Im looking at cleansing it
strong forum
I feel personally attacked
exotic spoke
Minor I'm not sure. Major yeah for some fights absolutely.
I think we may have better minors
wooden radish
hmm
you would use Aegis ?
mainly for M+
i need to work on my essence options kekw
warm plinth
I think the major is definitely better than the minor. The major gives you control over when you have the shards. The minor could easily spawn a shard when you're having to move, so you'd have some useless shards spawn. How many would probably make the determination on whether it's worth it or not.
Crucible minor isn't terrible
I'd use other stuff but if you're limited, it's not a bad option
quartz mist
Just did a +10 junkyard and is anyone having trouble with gunker ?
Or do i have a downs dyslexic group
limpid pawn
The second one
flat jackal
Formless void minor worth using?
opal python
is torment in a jar worth rolling over for m+?
leaden grail
are the mechagon bracers worth using for mythic+?
short kindle
So i got a weakaura pack for prot, and the only thing that stands out to me is that avatar cooldown or duration isnt on there, is that soemthing to worry about or is it jsut whatever?
short kindle
yeah im jsut very bad with weakauras
cinder storm
You should use another pack then or get a wa just for Avatar, you can make one yourself too
strong forum
4 clicks
grand spruce
maiden ravine
using all the rage I could and I was only managing 30% shield block uptime and 50% IP up time, I don't know.
maybe I need to use devastator just to have spare GCDs
sick sentinel
rage shouldn't affect your shield block uptime
maiden ravine
I know I didn't hit it when I was facing caster mobs
sick sentinel
you should still use it
maiden ravine
that may have impacted the number
warm plinth
Yeah should still use it. Casters still melee with like 3 exceptions
maiden ravine
Shade of Zul doesn't melee does he?
warm plinth
He does
sick sentinel
it's just very minor
in that case, you wouldn't use shield block even tho he melees
warm plinth
But not enough that you should really worry about block much tbh. The DoT is wayyyyy more your greatest danger.
sick sentinel
as his casts are what hurt
maiden ravine
yeah, I was asking for tips from my healer, and they just said my 30% uptime was low, maybe it is, but block was on CD most pulls except for like zul and the shaman on the council fight
warm plinth
You can forgo Shield Block on Zul, Rixxa and Mogul. And Mogul you can still use it on Drill Smash if you want.
Yeah uptime isn’t a great metric but 30% is super low regardless.
Because that low of uptime means your % of blocked hits is bad too.
maiden ravine
If it's anything it's that I'm not generating enough rage in general by not being the fastest at spamming devastate and shield bash
warm plinth
Rage generation should not impact Shield Block uptime because you should be saving rage for block if needed.
sick sentinel
dev doesn't gen rage
maiden ravine
if you press block twice in a row it just gives you 12s of the buff right?
maiden ravine
it resets SB which gives more rage
sick sentinel
waste of shield block
warm plinth
As long as you’re pressing Shield Slam and Thunder Clap on CD, and using Avatar and Demo on CD, your rage is fine.
sick sentinel
It's not like how ironfur works
warm plinth
It does not overlap it. It gives you 12 seconds. But it’s still not a good idea because you don’t always need it 12 seconds straight with no gaps.
You can frequently let it drop for a second during a stun or during a cast time
maiden ravine
I'll have to log myself I guess, logging just eats up a lot of memory for me
what's a typical uptime on IP if you're a bit undergeared and thus taking a lot of damage
sick sentinel
You know I do 19/20s and stuff
and all this time
season 3 and this season
I never knew that shield block just added to it
maiden ravine
most short duration buffs like that do unless they specifically state multiple applications "stack" rather than extend
but yeah, they didn't want to make warriors and monks scared of hitting the button
finally over 1300 io
sharp night
it's been said frequently
just because someone pushes buttons good doesn't mean they know how things work 😉
and some people who are good at mechanics don't push buttons so good
sick sentinel
I mean it'sa good thing I was doing it like I was tho
as I can gap shield block with stusn and fears
like he said
that's the main reason why I had no clue it was like that
and I just avoided a bad habit
👍
maiden ravine
alright, underrot is the next dungeon I can most improve my score on
Okay, gonna be ballsy and try a 13 AD
ivory barn
that 650 main stat is soo damn tempting.... 🤔
sick sentinel
yikes
sudden cape
Is it worth keeping a 430 urchin over 460 Jar/vita 475 rezans?
sick sentinel
no
ivory barn
That trinket isnt prolly even worth keeping as a survival boost for me is it
left hatch
maiden ravine
you can use it in pvp
fringe marten
Visions scale like flex raids right? IE if you have 2 people it's X% scaled up...3 people X+ etc?
it's not just...Solo...or group difficulty?
left hatch
yah its dynamic scaling
few diff factors impact it
like solo tank/healer make it even easier than solo
or having anyone in heal spec lowers it a bit even in group
fringe marten
Cool, Right of course...I have 25% weaker mobs, so if I invite someone it's a bigger spike in difficulty than if it were just 2 dps doing it.
oh really?
you know by how much?
left hatch
nah blue post didnt say
and if you invited someone else itd be a comparitively bigger jump in difficulty (or feel like it) if you've been soloing in prot
cause you're a bit lower than hte usual baseline rn
warm plinth
Hypothetically it would reduce it by 50% of whatever one group member adds. So instead of adding a whole person’s worth of HP it’d add half. Probably doesn’t quite work that way but close enough.
For a healer btw. Not a tank
sharp night
well it'd be "more difficult" but also easier since you can just pull big and let your dps blast without them worrying about dying
maiden ravine
"I can't help with explosives on Sethralisss!!!"
while also wanting every chain lighting interrupted, come on healer
not to be overly salty, and it's a tough boss to heal, but on explosive week, dps literally cannot be on explosives and plague doctor at the same time
red dock
Would there ever be a use for formless void 3?
Iris would be cool but losing VoP seems rough
maiden ravine
I really could use a bunch of 460 azerite, but at least I get one piece of 475 on Tuesday
rigid dust
445 Rezans or 465 Briny with 465 Sporepod
maiden ravine
I'm tired of tanking this week
Tyrannical bosses, and dps who don't wanna hit explosive or do mechanics is draining my sanity
shy rapids
may be a dumb question but for ignore pain do you just apply it once? then focus on other abilities and once the ignore pain buff is about to run out you apply it again or do you try to spam it as much as possible if it stacks?
alpine shard
it stacks only to 130% Value. Do not spam it if the value is above 30%.
sharp night
if you are about to ragecap and can't revenge it's better to spend on IP than let it get wasted though
carmine wadi
ToS last boss is the real hell this week. I did 16 with a discipline priest who couldnt heal it and let me die twice. Also dps didn't switch instantly to explosives
But yeah I never met a priest who is good in m+ healing so I prefer healing of my druid or pala m8
mortal brook
gotta assign areas for explosive tbh
silver crane
which shield is good from M+ ? ( i just specced prot)
mortal brook
whichever is highest ilvl. the secondaries arent crazy impactful
maiden ravine
is there a way to deal with bobby howlis this week without getting lucky?
silver crane
but haste vers is optimal /
maiden ravine
Like usually bobby isn't an issue, then some weeks he is
mortal brook
theres no haste vers m+ shield. assign kicks between the howlis bros
two can cover jes, 2 can cover bobby
maiden ravine
okay, so he's not stunnable, is a simple kick enough to break bobby?
mortal brook
yeah you dont even need to break his absorb, just kick it
maiden ravine
no, it's his stun/ravage that was killing us
maiden ravine
then that's not just on me, didn't think it was a spell, but I had 2 shamans and bear in group and none of us were kicking
mortal brook
def assign then. make sure shammies are watchin bobby or something, bear and you can cover jes
maiden ravine
I will next time if I bother with this 11
sharp night
if they mess up
mortal brook
good to have redundancy if the good player gets stunned
mortal brook
lord knows some people just dont bind their kicks >.>
maiden ravine
I just want ANY other key
I'll do shrine
cause without my OWN 15 I ain't getting one done at 1300 io
mortal brook
bolstering week is a heck regardless
maiden ravine
it was good early on this week
I actually chested a +12 TD and a +13 Junkyard
been downhill since
maiden ravine
yeah, just my luck that I've had TD twice this week and my 14 was a ToS
mortal brook
done junkyard like once since patch lol. i need to figure a shockbot route
eventually
sharp night
it's pretty easy
on the 2 weeks where he isn't at gunker, go there first
you get 5 shockbots on the way
mortal brook
hot
sharp night
on this week where he's at junker first, you clear towards the cave near gobbamak
get 3 bots there, then go trixie/naeno for the last 2
and then do trixie/naeno -> gobba -> gunker
maiden ravine
but killing the trash near gobba puts you way over the counter
sharp night
it doesn't
maiden ravine
unless your group is gods at skipping near the last boss
maiden ravine
not once have I seen a group manage to get the last 2 obelisks without having to kill a ton of trash around them still
mortal brook
can just do the spider with last boss right?
maiden ravine
maybe I've just been unlucky on that
sharp night
if you want, yeah
maiden ravine
but I've seen people kill like 10% before the right obelisks haha
So I usually just skip the trash before gobbamak mostly
sharp night
on the "B" rotation week
i do spider separate from last boss
because we can cheese the slime one
we kill spider obelisk first
then everyone runs to last boss
i activate slime guy by myself
leap out -> run to last boss
and all tentacles teleport to us and we nuke em
also there's a couple backup bots near spider if someone dies to something dumb so it's nice to clear it sometimes
maiden ravine
I'm just freaky salty that I've had like 4 tol dagor keys the last 2 weeks
mortal brook
full set right next to it right
sharp night
yeah
maiden ravine
I need off this key
running into my favorite catch 22, "We're not taking you to a 15 unless you can time all 17s already"
mortal brook
thats a heck
sharp night
looking at what i normally kill in junk
on gunker weeks we have 100.9% count
on non-gunker weeks it's 107.53%
but there isn't really anything extra skippable the way we go
maybe like 1 or 2 packs using the spire
flat jackal
Would you guys trade in a 450 head w/ BOM for a 475 piece without BOM?
mortal brook
prob. that's a lot of ilvl
sick sentinel
ilvl is king
graceful pine
hey guys, Heart of Darkness a desirable trait? Comparable with BoM?
brittle owl
compared to BoM, not really
but it's a really good trait
think of heart of darkness as 6 sockets
cuz that's literally what it is
brittle owl
don't worry about it too much
graceful pine
also i'm fairly certain its no good, Strength of the Warden R3 Major isn't worth as its only 6 seconds extra damage every 2 mins?
brittle owl
there's so much shit that's enabled this patch through corruption
that's the aoe taunt one?
graceful pine
ye
graceful pine
ive got the minor atm just for corruption resist
brittle owl
rather use the formless void one
in keys i guess that one is decent, but in raids it's formless void 100%
graceful pine
oh yeah, sorry, this was for M+
brittle owl
since you can literally have 100% uptime if rubning with CoF major
also if you have a class that uses CoF
(like most healers by default)
hushed cobalt
ilvl makes me sad, but its 148k on ah 🤔
graceful pine
the strength of warden gave me almost 10% self healing
brittle owl
formless will still have like 80-90% uptime
it heals you on a non damage event
it's equivalent to 1xIV
so most of the time it just overheals
if you value 1xIV, sure, go ahead and use it
sharp night
are you assuming everyone else is rotating their majors for 100% uptime with cof
graceful pine
🙂
brittle owl
no
just using 1xCoF makes the uptime high enough
in your group
with other majors it's iffy
sharp night
that isn't possible
hushed cobalt
you can have that 1 healer take it for the team and use well of existance
sharp night
cof is a 30s recharge time, the buff is 20s so it's 66% uptime
you get 100% uptime on short fights maybe
since there's 2 charges
but long term it approaches 66%
brittle owl
it's 66% just from that, then you add in other majors randomly used
it's anecdotal evidence, sure
but i've had uptime on it close to 90% in my keys when i ran it, with just me having CoF
graceful pine
@brittle owl you're right, the Endurance proc overhealed me for more than it healed me
10% net, would be cool if it could do the 20% gross 😦
sharp night
stealing bote is awful
you don't have huge damage abilities in the 5s window
beam is way better
brittle owl
^
graceful pine
cool cool
brittle owl
stealing meme beam is theoretically the highest dps option for keys
graceful pine
one final one, what kind of avg dps are you guys hitting at 470 ilvl in keys?
sharp night
i wish i were anywhere NEAR 470
brittle owl
you should be at 40-50k easily depending on corruption
brittle owl
esp with pugs/inexperienced players
packs take waaaay to long just because people suck at explosives
and it compounds with sucking at bolstering
graceful pine
with the minors - Aegis, Null + Strenght of Warden/Formless Void? Or would you switch null for C&S/Lucid?
brittle owl
C&S is a locked in choice imo
warden/formless if you need the corr resistance, otherwise use whatever
aegis is eh this week
graceful pine
aye, need the 10 to not proc thing from beyond 😦
brittle owl
since your pulls are limited
graceful pine
10 resistance*
brittle owl
pedo add isn't that bad
runnin around with 55 atm in 15's
never had an issue with it so far
graceful pine
do you usually save spell reflect for it?
sick sentinel
15s don't really do anything anyway
brittle owl
i just save my cloak dispel for hard packs where it would actually be yikes to get hit
that's why i'm running 55
😉
sick sentinel
it's actually buns having all that
especially when you need spell reflect for like almost every ability in the game
in higher keys
or when you can't move
graceful pine
Awesome, thanks for the info guys, going to try run VOP Major, Lucid/C&S/Warden minor (+3% stam for Twilight devstation damage :D)
sick sentinel
sphere and c&s are probably must haves
lucid is uh
eh
and warden is eh
formless better
graceful pine
Sphere?
sick sentinel
large haste stack perm uptime
brittle owl
sphere of suppression
sick sentinel
it's like 350 if you're rank 80
oh wait 354
if you're 80
permanent
and it makes you move faster
and slows mobs
brittle owl
that's personal preference tbh, i don't value haste that much compared to vers in any content this patch, unless needing to turtle
vers is giga for dps
graceful pine
guess i need to get that then >.>, sitting at 2k haste atm though
sick sentinel
haste is better for dps than vers
brittle owl
in a vacuum yes, but with damage corruptions, not really
sick sentinel
I sit at 2.1k and haste still is VASTLY better than any of my simmed stuff
brittle owl
more so if you're running a damage trinket
sick sentinel
that's with OP, rezans
brittle owl
no EV/TD/appendage?
sharp night
haste should affect corruption just as much as vers though
sick sentinel
I have ev
sharp night
the only secondary that doesn't benefit corruptions is mastery
brittle owl
true enough
sick sentinel
used to have two but just cleansed it
sharp night
if you run TD haste is arguably better than vers since it increases proc rate which makes it somewhat more consistent
brittle owl
oh yeah, never argued that
sick sentinel
more haste is better defensively and offensively
graceful pine
so generally sphere/C&S are lock-ins? Unless you're doing big pulls and can utilise Aeigis
brittle owl
more or less yeah
sick sentinel
generally yes
wintry ermine
welp
hallow phoenix
That's... A strange choice by blizzard
With that reasoning shouldn't pre-nerf EV pieces do pre-nerf damage, and only new drops have reduced damage
autumn pendant
Lol yea
west galleon
they really said "lol oops but we don't feel like fixing it"
neat pebble
hey there,, im searching for a chargemacro on wow 8.3.: when i mouseover on friendly = charge. If i target an enemy = charge enemy. Do someone know that ?
frozen mason
My best shot
/use [@mouseover,help] Intercept; Intercept
inland cove
does anyone know why some prots are taking conflict major in keys?
sick sentinel
i feel like they aren't
unkempt seal
some people like the root to kite
west galleon
ya they definitely are
inland silo
Pretty sure cns major is just a necrotic thing.
sick sentinel
the people who he is talking about aren't using cns
Raider doesn't show their traits properly
just look at the top prots
it shows CnS major on an offspec
because breath of the dying is also in the list too
and that's not possible
people who just look at it and call it good need to look closer at that stuff
rustic spear
How does Prot warrior fair in M+? I know either last season or before it was seen as a really strong pick, is that still the case?
I’m looking into playing a tank, but I seem to struggle with Vengeance, So im thinking about exploring other options, and warrior is one of those
sick sentinel
It's they best tank
winged grail
Arguably the strongest tank right now
Monk make a strong case to being best tank as well but the collective imaginary right now places war first
leaden grail
is there an azerite setup that is stronger than bastion of might + meticulous scheming dps wise?
winged grail
Depends on the content
leaden grail
m+
leaden grail
td = twilight devastation?
winged grail
Sorry DC
sick sentinel
Best setup is DC, BoM and 2 heart of darkness
winged grail
Obsessed about TD atm 😄
Heart of darkness if you can take all the orbs
Some dungeons are good for it, others where you have little space, less so
marble cipher
Heart doesn't need you to take anything 🤔
sick sentinel
^
marble cipher
Just flat stats
sick sentinel
heart is just a large stat stick perm
rustic spear
I’ll probably take a look at warrior then, thanks 🙂 I don’t know why but I seem to struggle with threat as Veng
lusty wedge
Thinking of breaking out the warrior, any suggestions on gearing quickly? He’s 445 from last patch.
alpine shard
m+8 spam -> m+11 spam -> m+14 spam. 470 fast 🙂
lusty wedge
Ty
alpine shard
If you cant do Mythic, Bonusroll Carapace and Nzoth on heroic. alot of awesome drops
storm fulcrum
for prot war in M+, is there a point at which haste starts to loose value in favor of crit? Or should I always stack it? (I'm siting at 2160 haste, with vita-charged + quick navigation)
winged grail
Quick question for the Mythic raiders out there, which is the easiest: Nzoth Heroic or Wrathion Mythic?
sweet summit
for a tank or for the entire raid?
mystic berry
is this shield any good or garbage?
sweet summit
worst shield in the game currently, but ilvl is king and socket is pog
winged grail
For entire raid
hallow phoenix
of guild kills on Warcraft logs seems to back that up
winged grail
Well I guess Mythic Wrathion also requires a 20-man team so harder to setup
hallow phoenix
That's true
winged grail
Just wondering if we should swap to Wrathion M if we struggle on Nzoth HC tonight
I guess I have my answer, thanks 🙂
hallow phoenix
If people struggle with the few mechanics on nzoth I don't know how well they'd do managing their movement on wrath
winged grail
We killed 7/12 HC easy but had trouble on Nzoth NM, hence my question 😄
left hatch
wrathion is a harder fight than Nzoth
first time in awhile early mythic fights eemed scaled to be harder than all of heroic
feels gud
strong forum
Naowh tanking for method next tier, guess sco is finally dropping raiding
sweet summit
sco is beched crabrave
exotic spoke
Roo cheer
lyric zinc
Are the Bracers from Mechagon any good ? The ones with parry and avoidance active.
warm plinth
Not really.
rotund fjord
Hey guys bit of a general question here but why are prot warrs so good in keys?
As in taken to 99% of all high end keys
empty nacelle
damage, good against blockable physical damage, spell reflect
rotund fjord
Im having a hard time, im a dps main but i love unholy and fury, also like blood dk and prot. Cant decide o n which to funnel time into to make it a god. I do like the large hp pools on dk but dunno why. But fury dps is way stronger than dk
even arms
empty nacelle
not necessarily true
sweet summit
play whatever you enjoy the most tbh
warm plinth
Uh...why do you say that? DKs played properly can pump.
sweet summit
its not that far apart
warm plinth
Prot is far stronger than blood but I think the DPS specs are pretty comparable.
lyric zinc
Is there any definite guide for Prot ? As in is the one on IcyVeins updated?
sweet summit
icyveins is good
warm plinth
Yes, the one on icy-veins is updated, but it's survival-based
lyric zinc
Thought so
im at 23% haste so im wondering if it's better to enchant haste on ring
also not sure about wep enchant
left hatch
there isn't a reachable haste cap
warm plinth
Like, there's no number of haste you need/don't need
left hatch
like im sitting around 70-80% most fights outside of hero window
and still havn't hit 'enough' haste
or "too much" haste rather
to justify chanting something else or going outta my way for a diff statline
lyric zinc
So gemming haste and enchanting haste is the way to go i guess
sweet summit
for damage you can sim and see tho
warm plinth
For M+ you can do crit gems/enchants if it sims higher for AoE
left hatch
^
but i also wouldn't invest a lot in changing gems/enchants is you're not 460+ yet
if yo'ure already gemmed for haste i wouldn't worry about it till you start getting BiS
but im also a cheap fuck
lyric zinc
Any trinkets you guys suggest i should hunt for ?
im 470 hehe just respeced from fury
used to play prot alot 2 seasons ago.
lyric zinc
got 465 block already noice
left hatch
but some combo of those 5 is gonna serve you in like 99% of content
graceful granite
What M+ trinkets should I be using my tokens to fish for as primarily M+ playing prot warrior?
left hatch
scroll up like 3 lines
graceful granite
Scrolled up, I see bracers, shield, gloves.
rotund fjord
I mean looking at log rankings warr are right uip there and dks are middle of the pack
In terms of dps
The main thing is the guild lacks a good warr
we got 1 and he kinda sucks lol
left hatch
if you're talking about war in raid, were on the weaker end in terms of survivability
but that matters next to nothing
rotund fjord
Aye well i dps mainly but do keys as prot sometimes.
left hatch
then theres nothign to worry about, its the best M+ tank
rotund fjord
Yeah
would u say warr dps is ahead of dks? I thought unholy is king in keys
after dh/rogue ofc
left hatch
in keys? i mean fury pumps
and has a lot of self-healing which is nice
and i think? frost is ahead of UH now in keys
but regardless pretty comperable
graceful granite
Fury and Prot are both fantastic for keys
But general DPS seeking groups in keys rules apply. Have a high IO or don't bother applying.
rotund fjord
yeah fair point
graceful granite
Get a high IO by installing the addon and being the asshole with your own key for a few days
Now if only i could get a good corruption to drop...
-looks at his single haste proc on his 470 ring- I guess that'll do for now.
round linden
Does anyone have tips for surviving H Shad’har? I’m probably just playing poorly but I was really struggling to stay alive against him yesterday. Died like twice during pulls just to his debuffs
left hatch
are you taking a crush/dissolve back to back?
or are you struggling to survive 2 crushes/2dissolves
without know WHAT debuff/combo is killing you can't really give tailored advice 😛
west kayak
Do y'all use anything different in Visions vs M+? I have heard people switching to CoF Major and the Cyclo trinket.
graceful granite
I use anima of life and death as a major in visions for the AoE nuke. Let's you gather and burst
raw turtle
Can I still spec reckless fury and benefit from the auto damage increase? and if so is it worth doing it instead of clockwork heart.
graceful granite
It's only good for ST damage
round linden
@left hatch sorry, it’s 2 crushes/2 dissolves that’s been killing me, not mixing stacks
graceful granite
If your azerite piece doesn't have anything else in that slot that's worth a damn, it won't hurt you.
left hatch
spell reflect if you get double dissolve
otherwise have w/e tank doesn't get the double stack take the boss back
warm plinth
Do y'all use anything different in Visions vs M+? I have heard people switching to CoF Major and the Cyclo trinket.
@west kayak You probably want to go a little ST focused in visions since the elites are what are going to slow you down as a tank, so CoF and cyclo are probably not a bad idea.
left hatch
if yo'ure really struggling with double dissolve call out for an external, should be more than enough to get you through it
and anima isn't worth it for AOE damage outside of islands really where you gather up the entire island for hte burst
even if yo'ure pulling 1/2 a room at a time VoP is more dps
by a long shot
warm plinth
And you're probably not going to be able to pull 1/2 a room at a time when you get into mask clears
Because some of the mechanics the mobs do start to matter
left hatch
or even certain rooms, drag in particular has those suppress mobs
warm plinth
Yeah
Like I think Dwarven District is the only area I'd pull at once no matter what, because the only thing that does sanity damage or stuns or anything is the forge master guy
And his mechanics are pretty easy
lyric zinc
Any idea whats the weakaura for automarking the highest % target in the pact?
Can't seem to find it
still flame
Any chance we could pin Mwahi's Sim showing the dps for the different corruption powers? I had to dig but found the page here https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6qQLMENZt99gNXQPp5xkqM
still flame
I stand corrected. thanks @left hatch
so w that in mind, I was lucky enough to get Infinite Stars T2 on a pair of boots. I simmed it, and in order to fit them and be under 39, id have to purify 2 other items im wearing (full disclosure cloak is rank 9, and im not using Formless Void as my 4th im using Sphere of Suppression). Have you all been purifying a lot/not at all/according to the sim or mix?
left hatch
most of what i get i do'nt purify unless IK i'll never use it
IS is... pretty niche
its amaazing in ST but outside of a handful of raid bosses and workshop
it loses value
so it really depends what youd be giving up for IS
warm plinth
Cloak rank won't matter anyway because Rank 10 doesn't give you any more corruption resistance.
Don't get more til Rank 11
still flame
loses value compared to what?
left hatch
TD, EV,.... even stat procs
warm plinth
Compared to other corruptions
still flame
fwiw, the sim wants me to purify Void Ritual T3 (stats +33) off my ring, and Strikethrough T2 (increase damage and healing of Crit Strikes by 3%) to be able to use Infinite Stars T2
west galleon
T3 is 66 stats
warm plinth
What type of sim are you doing?
west galleon
and yeah sim is a 5 minute boss of sitting afk attacking it so ofc is will sim well
west galleon
2
left hatch
best accuracy is a Patchwerk 1boss 3m, Patchwerk 3 boss 2m and patchwerk 5 boss 2m
and compare between them
if you're looking into M+
still flame
im sure this isnt the proper calculation either but per bloodmallet DPS for Corruption, the DPS of Void Ritual 2 + Strikethrough 2 is about 2400 vs Infinite Stars T2 which is 7961
left hatch
if you're looking ST yes IS is very good
warm plinth
Yes, that's accurate. But ONLY in pure single target.
left hatch
but like i said the only place IS really performs like that is workshop or a handful of raid bosses
warm plinth
Infinite Stars loses value very rapidly when you add additional targets.
west galleon
I mean it's still good for a few mt raid bosses
left hatch
Xanesh (pre mythic) shadar, uhh... only 2 that comes to mind off hand
west galleon
But yeah in m+ pretty garbo
still flame
why? because bosses arent alive long enough?
left hatch
any add cleave nukes its effecitiveness cause it splits stacks
warm plinth
Yeah, and when you have multiple targets, it can proc on any of them.
So you don't have it stacking up on one target.
west galleon
It's still good on like nzoth and vex
still flame
on bloodmallet I changed the setting from Patchwerk to HecticAddCleave and it's still ahead of the other 2
lyric zinc
Which pots are you using in m+ guys?
west galleon
hac isn't aoe
It's 1 boss that you attack the whole time with intermittent add spawns
warm plinth
HAC is single target with frequent add spawns, which is like...not many situations haha
west galleon
So is can stack
still flame
ah
warm plinth
If you're trying to sim for, say, an M+ trash pack, you should do multi-target Patchwerk. So Patchwerk sim but add targets (I usually do 5 since that's a fairly average trash pack size)
still flame
how do i change that on Bloodmallet to reflect that?
west galleon
you dont
warm plinth
Don't change it on bloodmallet. Change it on raidbots.
left hatch
you don't change on bloodmallet, its just a guideline
warm plinth
Bloodmallet is simming in a vacuum. It's meant as a guideline, not a "you should use this"
left hatch
like a quick reference type thing
warm plinth
It uses a template character, not your character
left hatch
raidbots - scroll to the bottom
theres an option for targets and time
little dropdown boxes
mortal brook
1boss patchwerk, 3 boss patchwerk, 5 boss patchwerk. then make decision \o/
still flame
I think im getting now that the best thing would be to sim all of these to get an understanding, since there's no blanket fight type that ill encounter
thanks @warm plinth @west galleon @left hatch this is definitely helping me understand a bit better
left hatch
yiss Dungeon slice and hectic add cleave are bad
so you have to recreate situations yourself manually
and its up to your discretion which situation is more important in performing best in
if you're lucky all 3 come back with - hey this gear set is better
if not takes a little thinking about what week is it, what dungeon is it etc
Workshop in particular shines for ST builds, even in fortified week
still flame
well this is helping a ton. so for ex, i did 3 bosses, 2 minute fight and it says current gear is best BUT the "purify 2 to fit Infinite Stars T2" boots is only 39 dps worse (and it was 4k better at 1 boss, 5 minutes). trying it at 5 bosses now to see, still 2 minutes
left hatch
yeh sidegrades are also a consideration, i went with a ring thats ~.1% downgrade because it had 20 ilvls on my other ring lol
still flame
right. if you know its not that big a downgrade in spots you wont use it much its not that big a deal i suppose
also....is Booming Voice no longer the main talent used there? Is everyone using Devastator and im messing up?
warm plinth
For M+, you use Booming Voice.
left hatch
devesatator is only for parse whoring in Raid
mortal brook
devastator is strictly ST dps
left hatch
and even then some fights BV is better
oh and workshop ig
cause workshop is just a boss rush
still flame
phew ok
ok now we're getting somewhere: 5boss Patchwerk, 2 minute fights, the "purify 2 to fit Infinite Stars T2" combo is 2k dps worse than what's currently equipped.
which is what you all said when i first asked 🙂
left hatch
if you're interested in a theoretical 'bis' for M+
its stacking as much TD as you can and filling in the gaps with Gushing Wounds
but thats assuming you have great rng
still flame
so it's making more sense: the Corruptions that provide inherent boosts or work off of your own stats a la TD are going to be stronger overall because they're more versatile. Infinite Stars is niche because in single target fights that are longer, it's going to have more stacks and add up over time
left hatch
thats one aspect of it yes, the ilvl scaling component of IS hurts it
but what hurts it more is TD doesn't care about stacking
its not going to lose value because it splits what it procs on in a given pull
still flame
ahh, that's the other aspect to it. the stacking
left hatch
yah IS damage doesn't really do much till its stacked up
which requires procking on the same target each time
~1ppm it takes 5mins to fully rack up its value
still flame
so the corruption effects that are most versatile are stack agnostic and character-based
oh IS only procs about once per minute?
west galleon
it's full rng
It can proc once per minute or technically how ever many times you cast in one minute
just based on luck
left hatch
huh interesting
does TD still have increased chance to proc as well as proc size for additional instances of it?
or did they fix that nonsense
west galleon
shouldn't
still flame
cast what? any ability I use?
left hatch
damaging ability
still flame
gotcha. man now im really confused what to use
left hatch
what's your corruption with everything on and not purifying
neat pebble
Hey there,
Maybe someone can give me a tipp.
I got some „Rage“ probs. I use TC and SS on cooldown and i never use revenge without progg.
The problem is, that i need to use rage perma for IP because i loss the buff in 1-2 sec. So i spam IP and cant use SB or sth else
strong forum
You don't prio IP over SB
left hatch
^
left hatch
IP is damage smoothing, not your active mitigation
strong forum
If you feel like you're rage starved, maybe your haste levels are too low / maybe wrong talents
left hatch
only times this isn't the case is last 2 bosses of Motherload and Zul miniboss in KR
where you do wanna go ham and use IP
warm plinth
I'd be rage starved too if I was spamming the shit out of IP lol
neat pebble
Well but when use only SB i drop instand too and i dont got an selfheal
left hatch
also what content are you doing, cause even in 15's im frequently not dropping the full value of the absorb
warm plinth
@still flame What did the sims tell you?
strong forum
Are you talking low level Reewer?
still flame
@left hatch if i equip the boots without purifying anything my Corruption is 85 (its 35 right now)
left hatch
they told him hes a good boy, and is getting that train set for christmas
strong forum
Cuz... Even in high keys IP doesn't drop instantly
neat pebble
Got 660 ilvl and 15er keys
left hatch
oof ok i was gonna say if its like... 50 range you could just use formless for now
strong forum
In 15s literally nothing hurts, idk what you're doing wrong
left hatch
and next week cloak upgrade would take you outta the 40 range
still flame
@warm plinth with 3 boss and 5 boss at 2 minutes the "purify 2 items to fit Infinite StarsT2" combo gets worse
left hatch
Ig the next question is, WHAT is killing you?
warm plinth
Then use the two corruptions and cleanse IS (if you don't have another item to use in its place)
strong forum
ill link my copy pasta
and maybe you can spot smth
what youre missing
You can chain 3x SB with appropriate amount of haste.
After that you use Last stand to fill the CD downtime of Shield Block which should allow you to get 2 charges of SB again.
So it's "SB->SB->SB->LS->SB->SB"
(For general defensive rotation assuming pure blockable dmg)
You use Avatar and Demo shout on CD.
priority is SS>TC>Revenge>devastate for dmg.
Never cap rage, pump excess rage into IP, not into revenge.(unless you know better)
Don't empty your Rage Bar before needing to use SB.
If you know you will take heavy dmg use SW beforehand.
If you can't keep up SB or LS, fill the gap with shockwave / kiting ( if needed) / shieldwall
Or ask for an external.
%uptime on Shield block is relatively useless to look at, what matters is effective uptime.
neat pebble
Was 15 atal. On rezan i got SB up und when he hit his dot i perma spam IP and he kill me
left hatch
yah you have to have up LS/SW or an external
warm plinth
Well
left hatch
and healer attention
strong forum
cant do anything about it besides SW /LS external
warm plinth
It's a healer and you thing. You have to rotate CDs/externals for that
strong forum
and scream at your healer
left hatch
you spamming IP at the expense of SB there is gonna kill you anyway
because hes still AA you
neat pebble
still flame
@warm plinth so ive got boots on now that are same level. for 1 boss at 2 minutes it wants me to use the "purify 2 to get to T2 stars" combo
left hatch
oof Null major
strong forum
what is wrong with you
you NEED to play Bolster
you absolutely NEED to play Bolster
if youre not playing bolster youre inting
left hatch
so null is very very situationally ok AS A MINOR for M+
its never. worth as a major
ever
neat pebble
Whats bolster?
warm plinth
Yeah but you have to take all of the situations in M+ into consideration @still flame If multi-target situations of varying degrees are saying it's worse, then it's worse overall.
left hatch
lvl 60 talent
warm plinth
You save way more time killing every trash pack faster than killing a 3 min boss fight 10 seconds faster.
strong forum
also ye Null Major is very stupid
strong forum
did you perhaps use that for ML + Null Major
still flame
right, so you're trying to optimize to kill trash packs and though IS helps for single target, since its dependent on other things its not gonna help for packs of ads or fights where ads appear
neat pebble
Y for ml
sick sentinel
T w l i g h t d e v a s t a t i o n
strong forum
but NEVER Null Major
still flame
i'll keep hunting for TD I guess
still flame
a little bummed that IS T2 on those boots isnt the big DPS boost I thought at first but glad i discovered all this info and now get that having to purify 2 things just to fit it would sacrifice more versatile DPS for specific situations
pastel remnant
i just get a rezan trinket 460..how is good for prot? raid and M+
sweet summit
pretty good
warm plinth
@ionic fern Can you tell me where the list of corruption sims is please? 🙂
warm plinth
ily
pastel remnant
i ahve 460 dragonscale , 455 alcjhmist stone and 460 rezan...i should take off alchemist stone for rezan?
warm plinth
Yeah
pastel remnant
thx
ionic fern
I'd pepe heart you @warm plinth but you know.. 😦
warm plinth
😢
still flame
@strong forum @warm plinth @left hatch so fwiw, the way ive been doing this on simbot is doing 2 minute fights while changing the boss count and looking for the "purify 2 to fit T2 IS" combo line.
1 boss: IS T2 approx 7% better
3 bosses: IS T2 basically the same DPS (-25 worse at 67k dps)
5 bosses: IS T2 approx 1.8% worse
do you guys think that covers the majority of situations in M+ and most raid boss fights? I'm trying to make sure I cover my bases. (this also leaves out the intangible thought that "i havent started M+10 and above yet and I havent started heroic Ny'alotha yet so I could get better stuff eventually)
warm plinth
Yeah, that covers it.
still flame
Thanks and thanks so much for helping me through all this
ruby nexus
should i take hod over if/brace?
warm plinth
I'd use IF/Brace if you have a low shield but if your shield is good then yeah, probably HoD
ruby nexus
my shield is 465
warm plinth
You're probably fine to use Heart then I'd say
winter loom
someone got btw a paranoia weakaura similiar like in the method stream?
craggy harness
hmm, how nearby is "nearby enemy" for infinite stars?
steel mauve
40 yards
craggy harness
melee nearby or, oops, that pack over there you haven't yet pulled nearby
nods ty
steel mauve
dont think it pulls randomly though, pretty sure its just enemies in combat
warm plinth
Yeah, I don't believe it pulls anything that you're not in combat with. It can only hit enemies you're fighting.
Otherwise it'd be a nightmare lol
left hatch
there was a trinket S1 from uldir that could do that (:
just attacked w/e the fuck it wanted
craggy harness
[Trinket] Adds Debuff: Irritating Presence-- Chance to aggro any non friendly NPC within 100 yards
left hatch
plez no, don't give Ion any ideas
gonna be a new tertiary for shadowlands gear FeelsBad
left hatch
Wardens was buggy af