Shrine has like 3 pulls where incoming magic damage is scary
#protection
hallow phoenix
exotic spoke
I’m saying play with a group of people you trust. You can find good players in pugs. Add them to real ID and see if they want to run again in the future
hallow phoenix
Really not something to stack vers for
exotic spoke
Get a pool of players to pick from
sharp night
vers stacking would be legit if you could reach 100% DR from vers but it was tested in legion to cap at 99%
torn gulch
let's say you reach the position where you have 164 corruption budget
sick sentinel
Hey, I need some help with essences
torn gulch
what do you wear?
sick sentinel
Like, what should I run
exotic spoke
I went from playing with a specific group (not wanting to pug) before I transferred servers to playing with between 10-12 people based on who’s on on my friends list
torn gulch
and this is why the corruption system was badly executed
exotic spoke
Mmm more haste with MS and OP and force multiplier
hallow phoenix
Yom
torn gulch
because of those kinds of corruption
hallow phoenix
I mean there's always going to be a best corruption
Or at least a few best
Same reason we prefer haste
Cause it's generally better
exotic spoke
We’re talking meme corruption builds
torn gulch
not because they exists because they are badly tunned
an passive effect should never account for 20% of someone's damage
hallow phoenix
They were just nerfed
exotic spoke
There will always be a best build for a given situation
left hatch
yah.. i mean with the EV nerf everything is roughly in line now
left hatch
damage procs just historically perform better than stat gains for us
roughly*
and TD has a nerf in the works according to last weeks blue post
sharp night
that's not how i read the post
haughty forum
Didn't that happen yesterday?
sharp night
i read it as "they are planning to change EV 100% and possibly TD"
torn gulch
they did not nerf td
sharp night
and then the update post was "we decided to nerf EV but not TD"
but both interpretations are valid
exotic spoke
Honestly nerf it a little bit for everyone and apply a tank spec specific nerf too imo
And I agree with Vince. Looking at != nerf inc
I can see dps bitching about tank Aggro with TD in M+ too lol
undone sun
sharp night
the dungeon could use a nerf though
exotic spoke
“He couldn’t hold Aggro”.
“You had a TD proc on opener.....”
sharp night
or just remove it because they apparently can't fix walls/multilevel dungeons
exotic spoke
Fix the walls pls blizz
left hatch
by nerf you mean it could use being deleted from the game (:
exotic spoke
I like the design. I hate the bugs
exotic spoke
Fix the geometry, z-axis, and non existent walls and problem solved
left hatch
even if you couldn't make things fall through the walls, cramped coordors just have bad interactions with a lot of affixes
hallow phoenix
Sanguine cough
exotic spoke
I’ve voiced a lot of issues I have with corruption.
A LOT of issues / concerns
But the bottom line is it’s too early to accurately judge it. RNG means that some people have gotten what they want / need and others haven’t. It means if you haven’t it feels bad. And this is more noticeable because it’s trackable in logs / meters
I’m reserving judgement. I like the concept and the fact that they are exploring other options
torn gulch
On my warr i have tier 3 haste and that's it basically
got trinkets multiple weeks in a row
left hatch
yah, it does feel similar to legion legandaries (or how they were early on) with how a lottery system can have such a drastic impact on performance
torn gulch
Oh yeah and 5% leech that procced at close to double corruption (15-28)
left hatch
but the willingness to experminet with systems outside of just "higher ilvl" is super promising
haughty forum
Yeah, we had problems timing 11s and then Tuesday two of our dps finally got a decent corruption and we easily pushed a key up to 14 the first night. Seeing two dps at 40k and one at 60 really made the two feel bad.
left hatch
and even with the issues the kiss/curse aspect is interesting and dare i say fun
once you DO have options
hallow phoenix
I have two T1 haste procs, T1 TD, and T1 EV
haughty forum
I think you like leech too much.
torn gulch
i was just saying what i had
haughty forum
😉
torn gulch
i like to run leech as a stupid build
exotic spoke
I have a T2 TD in 430 bracers. And T3 IS in a ring. Ineffable truth gloves and crit in shield.
I’ve run close to 70+ mythic dungeons at 14 or higher plus raid heroic and mythic.
I’ve had terrible luck with corruption gear and options.
The rogue I play with has run the similar amount of dungeons and has fewer pieces than I do
torn gulch
to play around with
left hatch
theres def ways they could improve it, maybe by adding an item (similar to the socket creator) that rolls a random corruption onto a non-corrupted piece
left hatch
or hell even goign way of AZ vendor and paying a premium of some valor currency to pick a corruption
to reroll to
exotic spoke
I’ve had a single piece of corrupted gear drop for me in those 70ish m+
I’ve seen. More than that but I’ve only had one for me
chilly brook
I mean like
exotic spoke
I think corrupted mementos for corruption is the best option for a vendor
chilly brook
Making WoW good is pretty simple tbh
get rid of rng special gear systems
give us currencies
exotic spoke
I disagree
chilly brook
wrath badges were dope
exotic spoke
Warforging, when it was first introduced, was great
torn gulch
warforging and sockets would be enough
haughty forum
No way, without RNG I'd lack a desire to do M+ every night after work. It'd just be a soulless grind like getting rep.
exotic spoke
It serves a purpose
torn gulch
in my opinion
hallow phoenix
I never felt unrewarded in wrath, and never felt RNG screwed
torn gulch
or liek now a way to grind the sockets
chilly brook
@haughty forum that's a fault with M+'s design tbh and can be addressed in more ways than one
aka introduce a level up/battle pass system similar to honor
do more keys get more cool stuff
each season
hallow phoenix
Just let us buy more than azerite with residuum and increase the residuum we get
Done
haughty forum
I've looked at your ideas and already cancelled my subscription. 🙂
exotic spoke
Lol
chilly brook
It's ok
dusky mica
👌
chilly brook
80% of the wow population looked at blizz's ideas and cancelled theirs
undone sun
+1
exotic spoke
Some amount of RNG is good in games like this
chilly brook
some amount of rng is not the issue
exotic spoke
I don’t think a super deterministic model is good
chilly brook
rng on top of rng on top of rng is
exotic spoke
Which is what you have
chilly brook
it's not really super deterministic
exotic spoke
Oh I agree, I want a way to mitigate it
chilly brook
it's just a system where there's actually player impact on your progression
left hatch
tbf they are STARTING to do that battlepass thing with M+
in that they're adding achievements (and supposedly titles/pets) to M+ progress
so thats a start
exotic spoke
Go higher than 15 pls
haughty forum
Capping at 14/15 instead of 10 is an improvement.
chilly brook
After corrupted gear goes away your M+ is already going to be what I described but without the battle pass @haughty forum
cuz iirc they confirmed they aren't keeping corrupted
left hatch
yah corruption is just 8.3
haughty forum
They'll have a new system of some sort. That system will have RNG.
exotic spoke
But they didn’t say there won’t be something else to replace it
left hatch
but using it to kina experiment with what they do in shadowlands
chilly brook
And tbf corruption is 10x worse than tf
haughty forum
Behavioral psychology says things are more addicting when the rewards are randomized. RNG will play a big element.
chilly brook
Addicting=/=fun or healthy
hallow phoenix
We'll all have legendary boots that let us walk in the shadowlands and have to upgrade them to walk better and absorb shadowy essence to craft shadow crystals to spend on shadow heart essence to upgrade said boots
exotic spoke
Like I said a bit ago. It’s way to wary to pass judgement imo
haughty forum
And introduces an element of time gating things without artificially nerfing content after X weeks.
chilly brook
Might as well just go to loot boxes for everything
haughty forum
I mean, we sort of do get a lootbox at the end of every M+ we run.
hallow phoenix
But sometimes it has nothing in it
exotic spoke
Back to the original point I was making
Warforging served a purpose when it was originally introduced.
craggy harness
that was the direct replacement to stat reforging wasn' tit?
left hatch
no
craggy harness
little hazy in my timelines
exotic spoke
I liked the idea behind it then - and I still like it now.
dusky mica
I’d rather have a gem based system like Poe in regards to gaining new abilities not core to the class
left hatch
WF came out mid MoP in form of 'stormforging or w/e and reforge went away in WoD
exotic spoke
No, it was originally designed to help groups that we’re struggling with a boss / thing / whatever and needed a little bit of oomph to help get over that wall
Supposed to make a minor difference - give a way to help them
left hatch
to semi-overgear things
chilly brook
Which is stupid
exotic spoke
I mean I disagree. In terms of retaining players I think it was a great idea
It was minor. Like 6 ilvls max or something
left hatch
yah i see no issue with making higher end content more accessable
chilly brook
Then why do we have several difficulties
torn gulch
in an ideal world i'll have warforging with sockets and a way to grind sockets as well
left hatch
because harder is fun?
exotic spoke
But if you bash your head against the wall at your skill level and can’t ge through it you may quit. This gives you a chance / hope and may keep you playing
Because not everyone is or wants to be a mythic raider
chilly brook
It's like arguing for an easy mode for sekiro
exotic spoke
Because people complained about raid content NOT being accessible
exotic spoke
The mythic raiders are the minority of the population
The other players are the majority
left hatch
and sekiro already has something similar in the form of the dragon mask
exotic spoke
It needs to cater to them
sharp night
raid also has a story which people want to see which is why lower diffs exist
exotic spoke
Exactly Itamae
chilly brook
Yes and mythic doesn't need to have everyone doing it
chilly brook
And in fact imo raiding doesn't need to be everyone either in general regardless of difficulty
exotic spoke
Uh wut - that’s why different difficulties exist which you just questioned
left hatch
this is verring into an elitist "get gud" mentality
more people doing that content is better for the overall health of hte game
it shows blizz its a popular activiyt
so they spend more time/resources on making it better
which benefits you directly
chilly brook
It's not really elitist, in general content loses its appeal and staying power when it becomes something easily accessible
exotic spoke
Why does someone elsehaving 3-6 more ilvls on a piece here or there matter?
sharp night
how does it lose appeal
i don't see why what other people do should affect how you enjoy the game
exotic spoke
It made a little difference - not supposed to be a crutch. But give maybe 1% extra / help out
left hatch
i think thats a fairly niche mindset.... just because "lots of ppl can beat this game" doesn't make it a bad game
haughty forum
I'm on Uldaman, our guild when I quit playing our guild was tied for 2nd in mythic progression... at 0/9 because only one guild had killed a mythic boss yet in October. Making it "more accessible" might mean just opening up cross server quicker to help low pop realms.
left hatch
Nioh wasn't a bad soulslike despite it being arguably the easiest
craggy harness
its the believe that something might be better, which drives everything consumable
sports equipment, clothing
chilly brook
The same way the importance of money is lost when its given to someone instead of earned @sharp night
sharp night
i mean i agree unlimited titanforging is bad
left hatch
^
chilly brook
@haughty forum and that's completely different to actually lowering the difficulty of the content, server lock is a stupid system
sharp night
but i don't see how that argument applies to multiple levels of difficulty
left hatch
hes saying 5lvl TFing making thigns more accessable defeats the purpose of difficulty
chilly brook
Multiple levels of difficulty also causes that same server lock problem to be worse tbh
exotic spoke
Itamae and I disagree, often vehemently, about some things. But it doesn’t really apply here
left hatch
you said it gives it to you for free
chilly brook
That's not what I said lmao
left hatch
Griff (Matt)Today at 7:47 PM
The same way the importance of money is lost when its given to someone instead of earned
you used an analogy
but there it is
chilly brook
Yes as an example of the effect.....
Which is still not me saying that tf gives people participating in harder content a free win
exotic spoke
Again, I don’t see how a few (literally I think it was 3 or 6 as the options) can be seen as trivializing the content
chilly brook
It's me saying that the value of the content to the person is reduced
sharp night
i don't think it's a good analogy though because you have the same chance as anyone else (large numbers, obviously this isn't strictly true for individuals) of getting the same forge
exotic spoke
It didn’t trivialize it. It was a little boost
chilly brook
The easier something comes to someone the less it matters to them
exotic spoke
It didn’t come easier to them though
left hatch
its not about makign something hard less hard
exotic spoke
It was a wall that they bashed their head against for a while
left hatch
its about making something impossible to some, managable
sharp night
think of it like floaters/kickboards for swimming maybe
left hatch
does your full clear Cutting edge matter less once you have mythic gear? no its something you still take pride in
sharp night
some people can't swim and you throw them a lifeline
exotic spoke
And then finally got it. Maybe the little extra gear helped. Maybe it was more a placebo
In effect it was a way of automating the %bonus that existed in ICC
left hatch
and good players will be able to get it without farming out full Warforged sets anyway
exotic spoke
Because that’s what kinda led up to it. Extra bonuses over time with a filter
chilly brook
By definition it did come easier to them though if you have to throw a system at people to help them clear stuff then it did come easier
exotic spoke
No
haughty forum
Like how world first guilds got the boss killed after X weeks of looting the other 11 bosses. Other guilds need Y weeks. Other guilds need heroic gear +5ilvls to even kill the first boss. Everyone has their own skill cap and slowly lowering the bar through the expansion is a fine method.
exotic spoke
By definition it did not come easier to them. Lol
chilly brook
Yes it would have
sharp night
i mean in some extreme cases sure i could see that argument, like if an entire guild gets their wf in the first week
left hatch
from the perspective of being in an exceedingly mediocre guild with exceedingly mediocre players
sharp night
but that's extreme luck
left hatch
they dont give a fuck if they have to overgear things
they're just happy to down the boss
sharp night
but in most cases it's still harder
left hatch
you're taking a high end player mindset and assuming it applies to the whole community
chilly brook
No I'm just not for equality of outcome in general
It cheapens the experience of a game over time
left hatch
and thats an huge extrapolation of what we have
WF or even TF doesn't equalize content
full stop
sharp night
so you think mythic bosses should just stay as they are for the full patch?
exotic spoke
You didn’t have to use it if you didn’t want to
sharp night
and never get nerfed?
because over the patch that's how they get more guilds to get CE
they slowly nerf every boss
left hatch
it doesn't allow bad players to get CE
hell it doesn't even allow bad people to get into mythic
exotic spoke
I mean it’s an opinion. So I guess it can’t be wrong. But I’m real close to saying it’s wrong
chilly brook
I'm not even a top end player tbh
haughty forum
Getting AOTC for EP in July vs AOTC in early January last week of 8.2 are not equal rewards though. They're completely different bragging rights.
even if the IG achievement is the same.
left hatch
you can also say that about all things of cheapening of experience over time applies to all games
for example playing a game blind vs using a guide
chilly brook
But in almost all things in life regardless of if its wow or something else, continually making things more "accessible" has almost never made something a better game
hardy mesa
Is heart of darkness a good trait to stack versus other traits in the tier?
warm plinth
It's a good trait but it depends on what else there is
sharp night
i'm not sure what the alternative traits on the carapace/nzoth pieces are
left hatch
from a gameplay perspective its not a better game
but it does cultivate a healthier community
and objectively speaking more ppl doing the content will lead to blizz focusing on that content
which IS good for the game
torn gulch
yep
left hatch
the helm has BoM competing with HoD
torn gulch
on both
chilly brook
I would argue that that's not true Morison as seen in the major decline of playerbase ever since the accessibility push that really came into the game towards the end of Wrath and continued further into Cata
left hatch
the shoulders off... skittra? have it competeing with IF
sharp night
yeah i only cared about the nzoth/carapace ones cause those are ilvl upgrades
torn gulch
those skitra shoulders on myhtic are sick
left hatch
correlation doesn't mean causation
torn gulch
i want them bad
left hatch
theres plenty of other factors including how they've moved away from catering to casuals by focusing on power based systems instead of cosmetics and others
that have helped dwindle the playerbase
so you ca n't just point at accessability as the only culprit
exotic spoke
Stats can say whatever you want them to
chilly brook
You can't really say they've moved away from catering to casuals when they've implemented systems like WF/TF and moved away from things like badges
chilly brook
And the removal of tier sets
exotic spoke
Unrelated
left hatch
to the point a LARGE portion of the casual base is bitching that there "isn't enough content"
because there isn't content THEY care about
haughty forum
My guild used to raid when they had 10 man raids. I feel like many of the mechanics are not balanced around a 10 man group anymore. Is this feeling real or is it because in the X years since Cataclysm everyone in the guild has gotten to different points of their life with family/work/etc. Sometimes our own perceptions of the problems aren't really what causes things.
exotic spoke
Removal of tier sets was because they didn’t want people to feel locked into them / balancing issues of multiple sets
More of a symptom of legion legendaries imo
left hatch
depends on the fight, some fights scale really well with small groups (like ilgynoth) and some scale really awful with small groups (like drestagath)
exotic spoke
Either way. It’s raid time cya later
Enjoy the discussion. QTPies
daring marlin
Was the same when they balanced 10/25. I preferred it, though. Even if Magmaw was super hard on 10 compared to 25.
I miss 10-man heroic(mythic) 😠
haughty forum
But we always end up doing 15 man with a pile of pugs and the atmosphere is different when it's a bunch of friends of 10 years plus some total strangers.
left hatch
i do'nt mind it, tbh i wish mythic was flex to
id take scaling issues on a few fights for the benefit of being able to have a flexible roster
lost way too many raid nights to ppl not coming (:
daring marlin
I'd be fine if it was 10/20 mythic but w/e. Surely balancing those two would be easier than 10/25.
lost way too many raid nights to ppl not coming (:
@left hatch yuuuuuup
chilly brook
Maybe I'm stuck in the past
But I do genuinely believe having one difficulty with the 10/25 man design was better
left hatch
idk, i feel like thats bad for the gameplay loop
while it is addicting and unhealthy
repeatable content is good for the game
look how fast ppl blew through classic raids
and then it died till honor was released
chilly brook
Not like it really matters anyways tbh cuz I've moved on so I'm not what they're making the game for
left hatch
and while it wouldn't be as memey for modern boss design, ppl could still blow through it in a month and leave 7months dead
haughty forum
There is somewhere north of 100 dungeons in WOW. I really wish they'd just turn the Timewalking concept into small 3 week long M+ seasons.
Been playing the same 10 dungeons for like 18 months...
sharp night
the balancing nightmare though
left hatch
but you get currency instead of 'all drops in game drop from dungeon'
haughty forum
Give everyone a couple tokens for "random rare item for your spec" to gear out their "fresh" level 85 character and then turn them loose on the dungeons.
A key system that adds affixes & some seasonal t-mog and collectible loot ala Diablo.
left hatch
they need to lean in more to fun (non power) rewards from small instanced content
instead of leaning into WQ world content
cause THAT is zzz
more stuff like visions less like wq
daring marlin
I wish we could go into Visions more frequently
If Torghast is as limited I'll be upset.
broken stratus
i am sad some dps think SR is not worth it on some boss bolt mechanic....it literally do 1-5% on some boss
haughty forum
It's time gated for the cloak ranks, it's annoying to also only get a few tries. especially if you want to do a run with a less than spectacularly skilled friend.
hallow phoenix
@broken stratus I've just started using the WA that adds SR damage to details
so i can show all the noob dps that spell reflecting puts me waaaay on top of damage done for bosses
broken stratus
does it show on everyone's meter or just my meter?
undone sun
yeah, if they have the WA it shows
limpid pawn
what trinkets you guys using for M+?
terse dragon
Can you reflect Kazir's posion?
grand drum
how is void twisted titanshard in m+?
opal python
You guys know a good prot warr that streams high m+ content?
That's been active recently
sharp tapir
Yodatv is a good lad
opal python
And is there a site like tanknotes but for dungeons?
quartz mist
strength of the warden or the formless void for third essence ?
tardy warren
What's the best way to learn the new awakened affix? I need to know how to use them for best skips etc. I don't want to just wing it and ruin ppls key and I really don't want to spend hours watching YouTube and stream vids just for that.
I think Google answered it for me but for shits and giggles I'm asking here too
left hatch
@grand drum no, its awful in any content
distant crystal
left hatch
and Diesquishy you can just open MDT and make your own route. in a week or so raider.io will start its weekly routes guide again
sick sentinel
for keys would you guys suggest using 475 humming and 445 Edicts or 460 Torment/445edicts
or both humming/torment?
west galleon
tardy warren
@left hatch thx
onyx vessel
warm plinth
You'd have more stats with the 450 socketed than the 455.
ionic fern
@exotic spoke it's pretty meh compared to others. It's like 1 ppm and even if you stack 2 of them i'm fairly certain it won't even get near the current top performers.
ionic fern
That's purely offensively speaking.
marsh silo
blightborn is better than callious reprisal
exotic spoke
Fair and thanks
ionic fern
Defensively it's a bit weird in the sense that it looks decent but in raids we rarely need any more defensive value due to tank swaps being a thing so your CD's will recharge regardless..in m+ it will be "better" defensively due to us being the only tank but we can already have a effective block uptime of like 70-80% meaning the extra few % you'd get from Ineffable truth won't be a significant change - especially when compared to some other more reliable procs like the vers/haste ones for example or from a damage pov - TD/EV/GW.
@exotic spoke
Also, not sure if that's a question or a statement @marsh silo
😂
quaint wind
Anyone have the weapon off of wrathion and can say whether it’s a solid corruption or not???
ionic fern
In m+ dungeons it's like 4-5% of your overall damage.
Compared to other damage oriented corruptions it's pretty "meh".
quaint wind
Doing how much overall. Currently at 471 ilvl and doing 45-55k dps overall but hoping for the weapon because I could balance another 30 corruption.
So echoing void still better? @ionic fern ? Even after nerfs
ionic fern
Yes.
quaint wind
Hmmm ok ty for info.
daring marlin
@left hatch Making routes for awakened is one of my favorite things to do in M+ right now lol
left hatch
yah iv been really enjoying slapping ones together, im sure there more efficient but still been fun
or how they allow you to improv routes 1/2 through
forget its dog week in FH and end up with 20% extra trash? thats fine just portal to sharkpunch and from there skip to harlan
maiden ravine
I just need more gear
I'm this close to getting 460 azerite cause it only slows my 475 acquisition by 2 weeks
And it'd be a massive stamina boost
maiden ravine
I'm scared to tank the raid not knowing the fights
maiden ravine
Also, 455 ilvl, you know to pug heroic you gotta be 470 with aotc
Haha
Torn on trying to tank this +13 junkyard I have
May wuss out and dps
rapid tide
455 should not make you feel squishy.
strong forum
I've done 17s at 455
And I'm still 458 equipped as tank 🙃
But 469 in bags, the game is treating me greatly
ionic fern
Ofc you can do it - just comes down to your dungeon/class knowledge and the group you run with.
raw pier
is surging vitality worth or i should go for ilvl?
hallow phoenix
I don't even know what that one is
left hatch
On damage verse proc
median kraken
What corruptions come with the shield? The weapon ones or regular pieces
ionic fern
Anything can come with the shield besides the weapon specific ones (wrathion,Maut etc).
marble cipher
Socket vs Void Ritual?
I would assume VR beats the socket?
Same ilvl pants btw
hallow phoenix
Sim
sick sentinel
rank 3 go for void other than that prob not worth
hallow phoenix
But yeah I'd guess vr after the buffs
marble cipher
Haven't simmed yet, will do that later when ingame, thanks 😉
raw pier
what are you simming? dps?
waxen nexus
Did Blizzard remove the chance to use victory rush after killing a explosiv in m+?
waxen nexus
when ?
sick sentinel
a long time ago
waxen nexus
didnt realize ^^...any reasons ?
sick sentinel
No word
peak lily
Have anyone tried the "Auto-Self-Cauterizer" on engineer helm? "Taking damage has a chance to unleash your Auto-Self-Cauterizer, healing you for 23255, removing most* bleed effects, and snaring nearby enemies by 30% for 5 sec.
Increases your Kul Tiran or Zandalari Engineering by 30.
*Efficacy may vary."
*heal is 37,217
sweet summit
Yes i have
peak lily
Is it decent or is the shield bot better overall?
sweet summit
Shield bot is better overall
peak lily
Mkay. Im guessing the bleed removal is pretty rng. Does it remove KR berserker bleed?
ionic fern
Yes.
sweet summit
I only swap from shieldbot to self cautarizer in kr. God bless me with good rng ty
strong forum
I mean, just craft 2 ;)
sweet summit
I do have 2
marble cipher
If it procs on necro, does it remove all stacks, or one?
merry cave
jolly thistle
does the self cauterizer work on the ravage dot from the hivemind add?
ionic fern
Dwarf racial does so i'd guess cauterizer works also
@sick sentinel 4-5% overall damage in m+
sharp night
caut removes only 1 stack of bleeds while dwarf removes all
jolly thistle
can it be cleared with BoP?
ionic fern
Yeah.
sharp night
works the same as regular dwarf
hazy marlin
@undone sun thank you, dude
cyan prism
does Twilight devastation stack ? like i have 6% on belt and a pants with 6% will they beam to do 12% ?
sweet summit
Yes
cyan prism
oh sweet, thanks !
willow compass
Hey guys question. how do i increase the stat blocking ?
Since i have a 9k stat on the shield but i dont know how i should get higher than that
And i have a total dmg reduction of 62.5% but they say it is possible to get higher
undone sun
Higher Shields, Brace for impact and iron fortress
willow compass
ok thanks do you know where our cap is right now? 😄
ionic fern
What cap?
ebon hound
Block is capped at a maximum of 85% damage mitigated iirc? Practically unreachable outside of critblocks
willow compass
Ok thanks for the answers
wind garden
Anodized deflectors (ie mechagon workshop bracers) are le poop, yeah?
leaden grail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b6vuVAYW9VPkBuTuVwunZm
is there any vendor item that's a lot better than shown in the sims? Because if it actually looks like this I will start hoarding residuum for fury/arms pieces
for m+ that is
strong forum
For m+ you want ashvane warden cuirass and Kraken shell pauldrons because they both have BoM + MS
Helmet is technically Abyssal malevolence since getting mythic nzoth pieces is fairly uncommon
Same goes for carapace shoulders
strong forum
Ye then it'll be Abyssal malevolence helmet
Kraken shell pauldrons shoulders and ashvane warden cuirass for m+
Meticulous scheming, big boi haste proc
Incidentally, both chest and shoulders are also bis for arms
So you've got that going
(outside of raid pieces)
ionic fern
I should try Arms..ever only tried Fury. 👀
marble cipher
@wind garden I use them and have them macroed to thunderclap, but they were highest ilvl so that's the main reason
For m+
ionic fern
I was under the impression that Arms is a slow boring spec compared to Fury for some reason.
ionic fern
😂
ebon hound
Arms not slow this tier 
ionic fern
I'll give it a try later tonight.
strong forum
Keep in mind, you need 3x tom and lucid major
ionic fern
Gotta check what pieces have ToM.
strong forum
Recently started swapping roles abit so I'm now more arms than prot
ionic fern
I got Kraken that much i know.
Well, i actually have Kraken/Ashvanes/Abyssal all.
Welp, guess i got 3xToM then
ggwp
strong forum
Raptor King / soulspun is helmet bis I think
ionic fern
Jep, 450. 😒
strong forum
HoD is also extremely strong
ionic fern
I guess i'll go with Twilight Decimation chest cause it's 465 and has ToM also.
strong forum
Big
ionic fern
Time to reroll Arms, lets go.
sweet summit
Fury>arms 
ionic fern
Too late, prot ded, arms4life.
sweet summit
Uhoh
soft kindle
"big"
hallow phoenix
Tab executing with sweeping strikes is hard
final mist
I like stats
Give me more stats
All of the stats
I don’t find the damage corruption procs particularly compelling or fun, just give me like 5 R3 Expedients and I’ll have a great time tbh
analog zinc
stats aren't boring
my literal favourite azerite trait is the warfront one
& that's literally just flat vers
& heals you when you kill something
tender phoenix
whats a good replacement for conflict and strife for the 3rd slot till i get it next reset? already got all the others set up for M+
warm plinth
Whew. City I was about to be like wut
analog zinc
they both start with a
warm plinth
It’s also way too early right now. I wish I could go back to sleep
tender phoenix
got that one on already and lucid (not anima)
analog zinc
eh for m+ if running vop i wouldnt bother with formless
seems giga inconsistant
i'd just roll strength, sure its shit but you're at least guaranteed some value
final mist
Formless isn’t bad, strength + haste proc whenever an azerite essence pops in the group is decent
tender phoenix
it will be only used for a few days so i think it will be ok to get something rather then nothing at all
jolly thistle
Formless minor is really good in raids. Or if someone is running flame major in m+ (eg. the healer)
final mist
And it’s the best one for us for CR
analog zinc
i mean whats the uptime
jolly thistle
In raids? 90%
analog zinc
not raids
left hatch
hes talking in M+ lol
marble cipher
uptime will depend heavily on the usage of CoF in your group
left hatch
if ppl all use their memebeams at once and healer is using a passive major
its uptime is super low
analog zinc
^
left hatch
so its only good if you know what your group is running and ask them to stagger usage
in pugs its a gamble
analog zinc
i feel like it might even be better in pugs
they use that shit randomly
get a better spread
left hatch
eh most pugs i see blow their load on the first pack
jolly thistle
yeah for m+ it really depends what essence the healer is running
left hatch
but thats also a super small sample size cause i despise pugging
its just a huge feelsbad to use warden cause its its barely a benefit over an empty slot
left hatch
tbh im dying for my cloak to catch up so i can ditch a CR essence
but by that time ill have more corruption too :/
warm plinth
Just play DPS so you can use Breath 🙂
left hatch
if only
agile vault
Hey all, how much dps should I be doing overall in m+? I’m at 454 without any corruption and I’m usually around 12-15k, which seems too low. The highest damage is usually thunderclap, auto, then shield slam.
warm plinth
12-15k overall is very low. But unfortunately without seeing logs, it'll be hard to see what the problem is.
agile vault
I’ll log my next run. I try to always keep IP up, could that be part of the problem?
mild river
I'm sorry if someone asked this before, but is the trinket from nzoth any good for tanks? The Lingering Psychic Shell?
oblique garnet
its ok for m+
warm plinth
I’ll log my next run. I try to always keep IP up, could that be part of the problem?
@agile vault Possibly. A lot of newer prot wars have a tendency to overprioritize Ignore Pain, even though it's not your top priority.
You should have it up a lot by default, but it's not something that you're shooting for 100% uptime on or anything
mild river
I'm sorry if someone asked this before, but is the trinket from nzoth any good for tanks? The Lingering Psychic Shell?
@mild river I mean for M+?
agile vault
Gotcha. How much dps should I be seeing if doing things correctly?
left hatch
40k+
warm plinth
Yeah, more than double what you're currently doing
left hatch
and psychic shell is pretty good for hte niche it fills
agile vault
Yikes haha, got it, thanks
left hatch
if yo'ure in high enough content where you know yo'ure going to use it on cd and need the absorb it fills that niche very well
but if you're just holding it as an 'oh shit' or its not being consumed to survive burst mechanics (mostly if you don't NEED it to live certain things like a tankbuster or giga pull) youd be better off with one of hte haste trinkets
or butchers block
same general mindset of lucid major. if you don't NEED it to live and are playing around it to be used on cd, theres better options
some of hte largest dps wastes you can make in M+ is stuff like delaying casts (ABC always be casting)
or (i had a cotank do this with his shear constantly in legion) spamming your filler spell instead of the higher priority spells
warm plinth
In BFA, spamming shear gets you 185k HPS 😏
left hatch
cause even without good corruptions or big pulls you should be able to break 30k
depending on your content level too you're probably overcapping IP, i highly recommend a WA that tracks how close to the cap you are cause in 13's/14's its frequently not fully consumed before you build up enough rage for another
oblique garnet
I mean if you are spending rage enough to cap ip you would be generating enough by playing properly and doing more than 15k dps
agile vault
I’m still doing 9’s right now (I mostly pug so not confident enough to figure out obelisk routes yet). I have a WA that shows IP uptime and I only refresh it when it’s close to running out
left hatch
not the portion you wanna track, the part you wanna track is the size of the absorb
warm plinth
That's not really how you should play though. You're going to overcap IP if you're playing properly.
left hatch
right, but in super low content constantly refreshing a near 100% ip is rage better spent in revenge
oblique garnet
in m+ content revenge is free 99% of the cases
agile vault
For what it’s worth sometimes my damage meters revenge ranks above SS but that might also be my mistake 😛
warm plinth
I doubt that min/maxing what he's spending rage on is his main concern right now, to be fair. He's got bigger problems than not casting Revenge as much as he should if he's only doing 12-15k overall.
agile vault
I don’t think so
left hatch
using Avatar and BS on cd? (and i mean like basically the second they come up)
agile vault
Avatar yes, noob question what does BS stand for?
agile vault
Yes
oblique garnet
What talents are you playing
agile vault
Yeah one sec, hopefully I didn’t log out in fury setup
raw turtle
would you guys stack UF or stack OP , or get 1 in both for M+?
agile vault
Yeah I’m in my fury gear unfortunately but https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/stormrage/riac
warm plinth
First thing's first
Why are you using 2 heart of darkness traits when you have no corruption 🤔
agile vault
Oh my fury has corruption bc I have a tier 3 IF
agile vault
Oh lol oops
left hatch
ritual bandages is a bad trinket
agile vault
It’s my highest ilevel by far.. need to replace
warm plinth
Your talents are good though
warm plinth
I prefer Storm Bolt to RE but it's fine
exotic spoke
You would
warm plinth
🙂
left hatch
I can't see exactly what pieces yo'ure running... but there might be some better choices
agile vault
I have Rezan’s as the other 455
warm plinth
Overall though, don't think the traits are the issue. The essences either
left hatch
yeh but its something haha
warm plinth
Virtually guaranteed at this point that the issue is gameplay tbh
left hatch
gives him soemthing to fix before we see logs
left hatch
any chance you can log in and even just SS your az pieces?
warm plinth
I guess. But none of this is really broken (except the heart of darkness traits if he really has no corruption in those runs). Optimal? No, but not broken.
agile vault
I’m at work unfortunately 😦
left hatch
eh callous reprisal is pretty garbage
as is crystalline carapace
so those are basically empty for him
agile vault
I’m still kinda casual-ish so the way I pick traits is literally going down the list in icyvein haha
Should I be going for certain azerite pieces instead of just picking whatever I get in a certain piece?
exotic spoke
That’s fine then. Going down the list is good defensively
left hatch
for azerite you kinda have to take hwat you can get for now
exotic spoke
^^
agile vault
Yeah I’ve been doing that
exotic spoke
Do you raid at all?
agile vault
Nah and don’t plan to
exotic spoke
That’s fine. Just asking because the pieces from there are solid. Not ideal but good options
So you could use them and save some TR
agile vault
Gotcha
left hatch
theres def some reworking you can do for hte AZ pieces you have rn
exotic spoke
Are you around tonight Riac?
left hatch
helm is good
shoulders you should have BoM over BFI and Blightborne infusion over Callous reprisal
also Overwhelming Power is way better that lifespeed
agile vault
Yeah I’ll be around tonight prob after 5:30 est
left hatch
chest again BoM>BFI, and heed my call > Winds of war
i think you looked at the trait list for raid/st
cause BoM is our best trait in M+ outside the first DC
agile vault
Oh yeah I probably did that
left hatch
and yo'ure prioritizing Brace (which is the bis for raid)
enchants will laso help some, at the point your gear is getting into the 450's and 460's its worth to start investing a little into proper gems and chants
and i wouldn't shy away from corruption on hte warrior
you can manage 39 super easily
and even dipping above 40 is manageable with good play and awareness
but yah without logs of the runs thats the most help i can offer
agile vault
Yeah the first day I had 40 and ran a shrine and kept dying with a guild group and they said I was squishy, so that scared me off
But yeah I will definitely return with logs. This has been super helpful, thank you!!
left hatch
squishy there is more likely due to improper kicks
also helpful to note you can spell reflect both the eye and the thing from beyond
(or run stormbolt and just stun him and walk a few steps)
warm plinth
39 is a good barrier if you're starting out. Adding Thing from Beyond gives you an extra thing to worry about. I wouldn't recommend dealing with that when you're still working on your rotation.
left hatch
i started running it basically 100% of hte time end of last season
the only time i miss rumbling is in Atal
warm plinth
Storm Bolt gives you a ranged stun that's separate from Shockwave. Useful for stunning ranged targets or just having that extra stun available.
exotic spoke
I should use stormbolt more often. My group has a ton of stuns already though.
agile vault
I ran it during necrotic for kiting but maybe the cool down doesn’t make that much of a difference
exotic spoke
Honestly it’s great for handling corruption (as well as its other used
left hatch
tbh id say RE is better if you're struggling with necrotic
exotic spoke
I tend to take Rumbling earth because of bigger pulls and being able to have an AoE stun more frequently to manage abilities
agile vault
Yeah that makes sense
left hatch
its a very feelycrafty choice
and as long as you play into your choice theres not really a bad option
agile vault
Haha gotcha
warm plinth
I like safeguard but I'm bad about using intercept when I run it for some reason 😂
left hatch
i finally swapped out Crackling for Bounding
and tbh havn't noticed a massive difference
(with the reduced aoe size)
but more heroics and the speed buff is superrrr nice
def my top pick for QoL in dungeons
warm plinth
Yeah I have never used Crackling Thunder.
exotic spoke
Yeah I didn’t really notice a difference. I run safeguard because I play with a spriest. They have a great defensive ability but then nothing.
It gave us a lot of problems on high tyrannical grievous crawg
So I swapped to safeguard and just leave it there most times. Having an external for anyone on a short cooldown is really nice utility imo
We’re good but not the best players - so having something like that is very nice
warm plinth
My go-to is usually Bounding unless I’m doing Freehold when Eudora is up lol
left hatch
after maining a bear in legion with moonkin aspect + thrash pants... i kinda got used to the 20yard aoe spam
so i instalocked Crackling forever
exotic spoke
Well, the DH I play with is probably the best player(honestly best gamer) I’ve ever played with
left hatch
i liked hitting everything in the tri-state area
agile vault
^ lol I also mained a bear vanilla through wotlk (but nothing hardcore) so I don’t know how to do anything but aoe
exotic spoke
I get there more through brute force and repetition
left hatch
you missed possibly the best iteration of bear thats ever existid. there was a legendary that extended the range of thrash, an artifact ability that did the same, and moonkin aspect talent did it even more
to the point the first few times i ran it i was pulling the entire lower courtyard in lower Kara INTO the play boss. mid boss fight
exotic spoke
I wasn’t good when I came back at the start of legion. Like I was legit terrible. Ghash don’t you say a god damned word.
But, everyone can get better - just takes some effort / desire to do so
left hatch
absolutely disgusting range and easy way to overpull and ruin the key if you werent ready
agile vault
That’s amazing
warm plinth
Lmao
agile vault
Yeah I came back to WoW before 8.3 and leveled my bear up to 111 then got bored and switched to my old warrior (only tanked on him in BC)
royal ferry
Quick question for raiding and then for M+ what level corruption you guys running?
warm plinth
The real meme was the bracers AND ekowraith. Then you’d hit things in space
left hatch
i don't blame you, bear isn't in a good place (fun wise at least)
39 is a safe cap for all content
59 is a higher skill cap 'hey this can work' for most content
above that run at your own peril
exotic spoke
@undone sun @sick sentinel @oblique garnet and a ton of other people helped out here and elsewhere - probably before they even knew how much of an ass I could be 🙂
left hatch
yah between the class discords and M+'s i went from an idiot that clicked 1/2 my spells and rarely interrupted
autumn pendant
But kaege is still baddie 👀
royal ferry
I’ve been running 40-59 for raids super easy but M+ it’s so much more difficult to balance everything.
left hatch
to only a kinda bad player with keybinds and kicks and everything 😄
spell reflect can delete the thing from beyond
and outside of Temple/end of ML and WCM spell reflect isn't super high value anyway
oh and shrine
oblique garnet
hm?
royal ferry
Yeah I use it all the time for Thing from beyond. I probably just need more practice but doing that plus explosions is fucking me up
left hatch
if explosives are going off you have a bigger issue than corruption
exotic spoke
I was saying I used to be terrible at the game late - but am better now. 🙂
warm plinth
You only missed Riki sucking up Late. No worries
left hatch
namely your group is bad lul
exotic spoke
I wasn’t sucking up! I was providing an example of getting better
I will hurt you ghash
warm plinth
Hey you gotta take these opportunities man. I would have been like “and yet I’m still better than Ghash”
exotic spoke
Psychologically so it doesn’t leave a visible mark
royal ferry
My group has been telling me it’s my responsibility to deal with explosions but it’s so hard to kill them if shield base is on CD or there is multiple.
left hatch
.... yah no
warm plinth
Your group is stupid.
strong forum
It's everybodies job
left hatch
^
strong forum
Cuz guess what, if there's 5 orbs, and 3 die at a time. Its faster and safer
warm plinth
It’s everyone’s job but like, on higher keys it’s gonna take you too long to kill them to even have a chance of being efficient at it
Like you should throw something at them
But assigning one person is not ideal
royal ferry
It takes like 2-3 devastates to kill 1 on 12s and sometimes like 3 are up at once.
left hatch
the 2-3 globals it takes for a dps to kill an orb > expecting a tank to kill multiple at 4-5 globals and winding up with 20+% party damage
warm plinth
As a DPS it can take me 2 or 3 hits to kill an explosive on higher kills.
As a warrior if you don’t have a slam ready you’re not gonna kill it very fast lol
left hatch
and if an orb is missed that time the healer is topping ppl up is time spent THEY could be dpsing
warm plinth
That was supposed to be keys not kills. Stupid phone.
strong forum
I used to solo 90% of orbs when you got VR from it, now I cba and expect everybody to do it
autumn pendant
Arms isnt particulary good at dealing with explosives
left hatch
which is bigger contribution than a whole 2 globals from 1 person
strong forum
As arms you can Sometimes SS off of it to not lose too much dmg
left hatch
casters generally arn't either but
royal ferry
Okay so everyone should be doing explosives then. Can you reflect explosion if it does happen to go off?
left hatch
everyone has to contribute
strong forum
No you can't
autumn pendant
Everyone has to
royal ferry
Okay and they can’t be targeted with a macro right?
autumn pendant
But some specs just so it better
warm plinth
Can’t be reliably tab targeted either right now
left hatch
so ppl couldn't cheese
autumn pendant
Like DH, Bm, fury, outlaw
warm plinth
Unless it’s the orb and one other mob
left hatch
but running with the expectation of 'these people are better at it, therefore they WILL get it' is what causes wipes
even if you suck at it
gotta help
exotic spoke
Some specs are legit terrible at it too. DHs only have some abilities that hit them if I remember correctly
left hatch
unless its a coordinated group of buds
royal ferry
During big pulls I have a hard time targeting them. I am using Plater default settings, any tips?
warm plinth
We had several times in a dungeon last night where tab targeting would just continuously cycle through every mob except the orb
exotic spoke
If everyone swaps its best IMO
warm plinth
I just click them tbh. Adjust your camera as needed to get the nameplates spread out and just click the nameplate
royal ferry
Okay thanks
exotic spoke
There is a WA out there that will make them glow i believe and be easier to see
oblique garnet
iirc theres a weakaura that removes all nameplates except mobs that are casting while explos are up
royal ferry
Awesome I’ll get that
left hatch
also tell your group to stop 4head padding
cause thats scuffing keys worse than you are
exotic spoke
What dungeon were you running @royal ferry
karmic onyx
What is your preference for m+, Rezans vs Dragonsvale trinket? Considering both are 460 no socket
left hatch
whats your other trinket
karmic onyx
Vial 460
left hatch
id... probably use rezans and dragonscale
strong forum
Run Rezan and dragonscale
exotic spoke
Rezans and dragon
royal ferry
I was doing Tol Dagor. So I had mobs coming out of the walls spawning explosions and shit @exotic spoke
exotic spoke
Tol dagor is just scuffed already with the walls
karmic onyx
Macrod it to avatar and use it every other cooldown. I'll try both haste trinks tho, ty
left hatch
thats exactly how not to use it
exotic spoke
But, for some places, it’s important to note, you can LoS the explosives instead of hunting them down
left hatch
if its macroed to avatar the first tick of the buff where you have giga strenghth is wasted
and most of vials value is frontloaded into that first GCD
so if you don't wanna manually pop it AFTER avatar
yo'ure better off not using it at all
royal ferry
The biggest problem for the explosions was the first boss TBH. The adds kept spawning them all over and I could charge to them or I’d get sand trapped and the dps weren’t helping much
karmic onyx
Hmm.. is it not a consistent strenght buff for the duration ?
left hatch
no it deteriorates
exotic spoke
My advice chriah. Put a marker on your head. Everyone stacks with you
sick sentinel
what's up
exotic spoke
Yes Kaege
sick sentinel
hi riki
exotic spoke
I was providing an example of people that are very helpful here - and that if you want to get better it’s a great place to start
warm plinth
He was sucking up Kaege
exotic spoke
I will hurt you
left hatch
macroing also has the issue that with Anger Management + VoP the cd's of both don't line up nicely
left hatch
so its not 'every other' its like... every 3rd or 4th avatar
sick sentinel
you can still ping me and ask me whatever whenever
left hatch
and yo'ull have significant downtime on hte trinket while VoP lines up again (by significant im talking like 30ish+ seconds worst case)
sick sentinel
macroing vial is really really not a good idea
warm plinth
😂
exotic spoke
I did! I was shit when I first came back. Shut your mouth ghash. At least I improved unlike you
final mist
Consistently TRASH
exotic spoke
Consistently bad
final mist
Lmao gottem
warm plinth
You guys are slow
exotic spoke
Sal beat me to it! Gottem!
sick sentinel
w
final mist
Not even gonna welcome me back ghash, smdh my head
Here I thought y’all used to like me
warm plinth
Honestly, did not click until now. Welcome back Sal!
sick sentinel
@karmic onyx
warm plinth
I'm not used to seeing your name not blue
final mist
Same
exotic spoke
I like you Sal. Now you’re just a brown name though
final mist
Yeah that’s fair
sick sentinel
Sal you know people like you when they tell you they do even when they are not forced to
you know what I mean with "forced to"
left hatch
last i saw of him he was talking about IRL cutting hard into his wow time
sick sentinel
being blue or orange or yellow probably does that to people
exotic spoke
Ahh fair
left hatch
and also got eaten by classic
warm plinth
@lusty grotto has disappeared too. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/669030653349855272/classic_chortle.png Wrong copy pasta. This is more direct.
warm plinth
He's just showing in the app for me.
karmic onyx
Ok, thanks again for the info dudes.
jaunty aspen
hi quick question since i cant reach a conclusion myself which minor essences to use
left hatch
Lucid, Cns, Sphere
exotic spoke
What content?
exotic spoke
Aegis is also a good option Morrison
left hatch
oh good call, im too used to M+
analog zinc
oh for raid
left hatch
yeh but, gotta know what its bringing to the table
exotic spoke
Defensively what Morrison listed isn’t probably best
analog zinc
you want Cruc major, VoP C&S & Null minor
left hatch
^
exotic spoke
Unless you need corruption resistance
analog zinc
but yours might be a bit diff so sim yoself
left hatch
Defensively tho VoP Major, CnS, Null, Lucid for raid
analog zinc
who cares about defense
jaunty aspen
restistance isnt all that needed atm
left hatch
you really shouldn't need a def build tho
analog zinc
cruc does more dmg
not like you're gonna die in a raid encounter unless you're just bad
exotic spoke
What CityofBirth mentioned is for dps maximizing
analog zinc
& talents aren't gonna change your survival if you're bad
left hatch
eh lotta ppl wanna have a safety build
exotic spoke
Or Worldvein on some fights
final mist
Survival is definitely what you should be running for progress
final mist
If you’re progressing and not running VoP major, you’re inting your raid
jaunty aspen
kinda leaning the defensive way too
rigid sinew
analog zinc
If you're progressing & using defensive options 100% of the time you're inting your raid
left hatch
thats.... entirely untrue
analog zinc
More dps will always help, extra defense is almost always unnessesary, even on prog
final mist
left hatch
you're way more likely to scuff a pull by dying to mechanics yo'ure unfamiliar with and being in dps build
than you are to missing a dps check and running def build
analog zinc
if you're scuffing mechanics you're scuffing mechanics
left hatch
the difference between minmaxing prot dps isn't that drastic
analog zinc
stop relying on crutches that aren't even gonna help you much
final mist
You’re not running VoP major to save yourself from scuffing mechanics, you’re running it to lessen the burden on your healers, who will be compensating for others’ mistakes as well as their own / your own, and whatever healing requirements the fight has
Parse whore on farm
analog zinc
"lessen the burden on healers" how
exotic spoke
Different skill levels require different tool sets. Knowing what your raid needs most is best.
Also, if his healers or dps are having issues him being a little more defensive is better
jaunty aspen
i feel i have to run defensive for the raid
left hatch
objectively untrue
analog zinc
healers use low maintenence hots
final mist
I don’t have an emote that sums up my facial expression for that
left hatch
you're applying your experience of GOOD coordinated players to everything
which isn't the majority of groups
final mist
Not only that, but healers do still hardcast tanks occasionally, it’s not like it’s not something that doesn’t happen
sick sentinel
as a prot warrior in prog it is absolutely worth it at times to run more defensive builds. there is no argument to that
analog zinc
the difference between an hpal keeping glimmer up & an hpal overlapping glimmer is nothing
a disc priest isn't gonna see "oh my tank is taking 4% less dmg i'm gonna delay my atonement by a few seconds" if you're taking damage they keep up low maintenence hots, if you arent then they dont need to heal you regardless of your setup
@sick sentinel exactly, "at times" but to run it all the time on prog is misunderstanding how raid tanking & healing works
exotic spoke
Logical fallacy.
sick sentinel
early tier prog it is almost always worth it
jaunty aspen
so now you got me confused iam in a situation where we have a few good players and many bad ones and to survive i kinda feel i need to build defensivly to not die cause of that iam lookin as to what essence combo i take for that
analog zinc
@final mist they do, & "reducing the amount of inefficent heals" will not lead to a signifigant dps increase from your healers
left hatch
VoP > Crucible major also isn't 4%
rigid sinew
sick sentinel
but as @left hatch said i'll never recommend that the general player base play focused on damage
analog zinc
I would recommend gearing offensively to start prog on any boss & see what you need to survive certain mechanics, whether thats a build choice or just a gameplay choice
exotic spoke
The majority of players aren’t mythic Raiders / shouldn’t be using offensive builds in raids
Hell, I’m not going full offensive because im in a brand new guild and am not comfortable with my healers yet
sick sentinel
I would recommend the exact opposite tbh
left hatch
given we have no idea how talented or 4head the individual player or his raid team is
its best to just give them both options
analog zinc
I did the opposite on azshara
spent like 50-100 pulls going pretty defensive
then i switched to offensive trinkets & noticed zero difference in survival
analog zinc
everything is in nyalotha
sick sentinel
very large difference between the last boss of a raid and the rest keep that in mind
left hatch
so thats an insane outlier to make yoru entire case on
analog zinc
no?
oblique garnet
Have you met raden?
sick sentinel
by the time you get to azshara you outgear every boss
analog zinc
i made the same mistake on a couple bosses
final mist
It’s the opposite
analog zinc
ra-den doesn't hurt
oblique garnet
Yeah sure on hc ra-den doesnt hurt
final mist
When you’re fine, shave off the extra defensiveness your don’t need
oblique garnet
The last phase dot
oblique garnet
Yeah on live the boss fucks
left hatch
using ptr as an example 🤔
final mist
So now you’re moving the goalpost
analog zinc
the only time I was in danger was when I had 50% reduced hp & no CDs on my DH
oblique garnet
I had to play cheat death essence on monk
exotic spoke
There’s more than one way to do things.
Your way isn’t the right way just because it works for your situation
However, tanks starting defensively is almost always going to be safer / better long term
final mist
There’s more than one way, but most players (especially ones here asking questions) aren’t in the situation where they can afford to run 100% offensive all the time
left hatch
like noones saying going full offensively is wrong. its just telling possibly new, possibly bad, possibly casual players to build and play like above average players
final mist
Which is why the general recommendation is defensive
analog zinc
& you dont run full offense all the time
final mist
I’m not addressing you Riki, you’re on point
analog zinc
Play aggresively, if you die, hold back a bit