I love being 4th on my dungeon runs, tbh
#protection
rapid tide
I want to do a good amount of damage but dps are... Well dps. They should do more than me.
sick sentinel
^^^
rapid tide
But that's maybe just me.
candid path
there are reasons why you could still want to bring DPS even in a world where tanks do competitive damage to damage-dealers, but it would feel arbitrary and people would rightfully complain
mortal brook
cuz im looking at my overall impact on the fight. fights like zaq where its worth to sit myself for a gray parser thatll out dps me, feelsbad.
undone sun
you can't see mechanics through parses
candid path
damage-dealers could bring DPS buffs, like old Tricks of the Trade, or tanks could only convert damage taken into DPS, like Vengeance -- making 3+ tanks irrelevant
sick sentinel
Steve never sit yourself when you have the opportunity to clap 700 adds
mortal brook
that is also correct
candid path
but that all seems shitty
rapid tide
I don't get that statement
Why would you sit for a grey parser?
What does it have to do with dps
mortal brook
cuz overall output, its more for that guy to be brought in
rapid tide
I mean if he needs gear then that's the reason there, not his parses.
mortal brook
i know this is SEVERELY a case by case basis and im def feelcrafting the impact by a weak metric, but
ionic fern
I'm confused now.
So you wanna sit a tank for a extra DPS?
What about tank mechanics?
🤔
ionic fern
Oh, solo tankable ofc.
candid path
to me, a grey-parse player is never competent at mechanics as well
sick sentinel
He’s talking specifically on zaq which was a joke for brm
mortal brook
again, case by case
rapid tide
I mean that was a fight problem though, not a tank dps one.
candid path
you virtually always are a walking grey parse because you suck ultra-ass and die early
and in that case I'd 2-tank a 1-tank fight over bringing in a DPS who will get dead
rapid tide
Like I get what you are saying that you feel tank dps is not Impactful enough for the overall raid to matter but I just respectfully disagree :D
mortal brook
I would def feel far better if my Orange parse matched a dps's 50% instead of their 15%. it wouldnt be much of a change but like, morale would improve lol
ionic fern
o.o
rapid tide
Mhm, I guess.
I am happy with knowing I performed well for my class on an encounter.
rapid tide
What do I care about other specs.
ionic fern
👍
mortal brook
def fight by fight for sure
carapace completely different than wrathion for sure.
but i wanna cry about wrathion mwahi gosh
sick sentinel
Wrathion sux
mortal brook
good 1st fight. havent had a 1st mythic one harder than heroic clear for a while
ionic fern
Better compare yourself to other tanks and think "Hmm, a tank that does 10k dps and survives or a tank that does 30k dps and survives". 😒
west galleon
same
sick sentinel
I’ll give you that Steve. It is a harder first fight which is a nice change
sick sentinel
But then there’s skitra
ionic fern
😂
rapid tide
That's an oof
sick sentinel
100% magic damage btw
rapid tide
Is WW in such bad shape? Dang.
west galleon
ww's only job is to buff warriors rogues and hunters
mortal brook
even then its so crazily fight or other things dependant. I got a lucky twilight devastation on p3 carapace adds so i get a rank 1. the person that gets their TD right after adds die doesnt. wtf is that
rapid tide
Oh ye. Reminds me of WW in our keys a while ago. His overall was a bit yikes but he started doing math how much his buff contributed to others dps and how that basically is part of his overall so he beat everyone.
Good times.
rapid tide
It's called bad design, Steve
mortal brook
good to have so much of my dmg only marginally reliant on gameplay 
most i can do for TD is 'face enemy'
rapid tide
Engaging gameplay elements.
sick sentinel
I’ve been trying to press my echoing void button but it isn’t working
mortal brook
next week you gotta press it twice as hard
inland silo
ff14 logs have class buffs counted in as their damage
mortal brook
echoing you can sorrrrta play around. pop coral when a high stack goes off, etc
sick sentinel
Are they nerfing the amount of corruption EV gives
inland silo
but DH would look insanely broken
mortal brook
they already nerfed the build rate. next is a 50% dmg decrease
on top of the 20% nerf and the build rate nerf and the aoe to ST split nerf
sick sentinel
Yes I know the damage nerf is inbound but is r3 still gonna be 75 corruption or whatever it is
mortal brook
no changes. t3 is 60
sick sentinel
Needs to be lowered with nerf tbh
rapid tide
That would... Be a buff then though.
sick sentinel
Incorrect
rapid tide
That wouldn't really make sense when they are nerfing it.
mortal brook
dps per corruption point itll still be strong. just not the end all
gushing and TD need to be hit as well. then corruption would be reasonably balanced and it wont suck to not get an outlier
deadly momentum getting buff. void ritual getting buff. EV taking a hit. that's pretty reasonable that you would get to choose between a bunch of options that are relatively equal
except now TD is the clear winner still
so everything else will still feelsbad to loot
upper nest
should i go above 40 corruption in m+? (usually doing +17s for now)
alpine iris
Sometimes delusion might be deadly
mortal brook
Thing can be spell reflected. most fights you can still move out of the eye circle
errant oriole
I wonder if they will nerf the spellreflect in corruption thing
alpine iris
Wait you can actually deflect delusion add and take no DMG at all?
mortal brook
yeah, its shadow dmg hit
alpine iris
Holy shit :o
mortal brook
ofc like, in Shrine thatll be more of an issue
errant oriole
You can stand in the eye with sr up aswell and take no dmg
carmine wadi
Guys would you go for 480 pieces or would you take 450 BoM pieces for M+? I could wear 2 x 480 / 1 x 450 but only with one BoM 🤔
strong forum
Well depends what else is on it
If it has bfi n stuff, sure
Go with the 480 if it has bfi
carmine wadi
Engineering head with thunder clap and the engineering trait. Chest with IF / shield slam trait
Shoulders with BoM
strong forum
Engi helmet is very good
carmine wadi
Okay then I'll go this setup and hope I'll get shoulders from carapace soon
strong forum
Yup that's the best course of action
carmine wadi
Then I'll roll for a new chest as soon I have enough residum and I hope for BoM
strong forum
Yup
strong forum
That's cuz 11s are a joke :)
maiden ravine
I'm a scrub, alas
maiden ravine
we barely 1 chested the +11, but I don't know awakened routes yet
strong forum
Practice makes perfect
Once you get used to it, it's very comfy and you actually will be disgusted by anything lower than 15 cuz of how easy it is
maiden ravine
pugging is just frustrating
maiden ravine
I'm trying so hard to get a 12 done for the week if not a 15
but that's gonna require me pushing my own key to 15
strong forum
Your goal should always be +15, you lose out on so much not doing that 1 weekly key
Just try to find a +15 no leaver key
maiden ravine
those are rare these days
strong forum
There's some of those around, they don't bank on timing it
maiden ravine
4 more dungeons to at least have something in rio for each place
and the absolute minimum 1200 rating haha
strong forum
Slowly but steady
maiden ravine
been trying to play fury in keys 10+ til I learn them, but meh
I'll just disappoint some dps
I actually enjoyed the freehold run with awakened vs without
Waycrest, Underrot, Junkyard, and Temple left. I like Temple in general so that I won't mind. Junkyard is enjoyable too cause of the buffs
flat jackal
@maiden ravine use the m+ discord. There are people who want to make groups for keys.
raw pier
@flat jackal which discord?
flat jackal
Wait, are you NA or EU?
raw pier
eu
maiden ravine
I'm NA alliance. eek
plush pagoda
Would yall replace corruption pieces for higher ilv? ex t2 haste proc
mortal brook
Id sim with the corruption ceiling im looking for. Unless you suuuper need that stam gains for something to not get one shot?
Im happy with my 410 world quest twilight dev tho. The 475 wrists stay in bag.
maiden ravine
I'm gonna miss EV on my tank haha
I'll just switch to mind flay bracers and TD gloves
strong forum
Well EV will still do 5k dps
At t3
Sooo...
Still gonna be really good
On ST it'll still be best, in dungeon TD will do a bit more, but you always run into the risk of accidentally pulling a new pack unless you pre-emptively turn away to prevent proccing into the general direction
sweet summit
Have one of each ;)
strong forum
Ye, managed to snag a 460 shield with EV t3 for 450k
sweet summit
Wtf
sweet summit
Ye ik
strong forum
Ya idk just some drama happened
And motivation faded, so I'm playing dps to maybe have some more fun
maiden ravine
I have 430 ev3 boots
sweet summit
Rip 
I dont have EV or TD :)
I have mindflay r1 :)
Doing less damage than my uf pots overall :)
maiden ravine
Do more m+ and pvp
You have a high chance of 2 pieces of corrupted gear every week
maiden ravine
You've had that much bad luck that mf1 is your best?
sweet summit
Ive also been farning shields for a good while now
Bad rng
Well, i do have extra crit on bracers
maiden ravine
What have you been getting? All trinkets?
maiden ravine
Rings can corrupt
sweet summit
Not the ones i get ;-;
maiden ravine
☹️
brisk rain
In what situations should i use lucid dreams major?
Just spam it whenever i can in m+?
flat jackal
Can trees hold aggro on zul?
brisk rain
Ok, thanks Mwahi
strong forum
Should maybe make that a pin
wooden radish
@ionic fern 
ionic fern
hollow kernel
so... mechagon junkyard shield seems extremely pog! is it actually as good as it seems? o.O
ionic fern
👀
hollow kernel
really? o.O
doesnt the block thing activate all the time?
hollow kernel
ooooh..
ionic fern
Soooo...you get a 15k shield once per minute which is roughly nothing.
sand saffron
Sounds pretty op to me
ionic fern
🤔
broken tinsel
sand saffron
You get to eat like a fourth of a boss auto attack every minute, that's unstoppable
ionic fern
strong forum
You mean an 8th
sick sentinel
is gemhide better than resounding for m+
onyx vessel
ionic fern
What emote?
bronze forge
Hi guys, im new to tanking and im enjoying it, But im not that great with using anything outside of the wow interface and dont really use addons. Can anyone reccomend me a a minimal threat plate nothing to large just simple and as near as the games current bars, i just want to know what mobs i dont have threat on.
ebon hound
Plater is great, don't need to set anything up. It looks different to standard plates though
bronze forge
I can try, thanks, its just i done it before but the bars just covered my entire screen and it was abit much xD
brazen lion
Do i need r3 sphere or is r2 enough
strong forum
Sphere R1 is already enough
craggy harness
only thing i tweaked with Plater was make it not quite stack tightly to hide names, happier with it than threat plates i had last week
brittle ridge
i remember there was a spreadsheet for azerite traits in the resources, but i cant find it anymore.. is there any updated version?
left hatch
spreadsheet for....
what traits to look for? or what traits each individual piece has on it
brittle ridge
defensive traits, what to look for, what to stack etc
left hatch
1 Deafening Crash 3 Bastion of Might
the other 2 are kinda filler, ideal is Meticulous Scheming but Iron Fortress, Brace for Impact and Heart of Darkness are good options
for middle ring Overwhelming Power and Unstable Flames are best
errant oriole
engi helmet was good right?
left hatch
yah esp as an early mythic helm its pretty decent
flat jackal
Does the nzoth trinket work like ignore pain?
left hatch
im not sure if they changed it with the rework/rewording but yah thats how it worked
brittle ridge
ty morrison
flat jackal
Interesting, thanks
left hatch
it also gets depleted after other absorbs as well
(or did)
so it has really nice synergy with resounding protection
and ofc ignore pain
flat jackal
Ah, that does sound really good
left hatch
honestly unless you absolutely need that absorb to survive some instance of burst damage
you get better survivability overall from a heroic haste trink
brittle ridge
is touch of the everlasting good? or what to put in 4th slot?
spice lotus
Has the mechagon haste card scaled decently with it dropping from M+ now? (while we're talking haste trinks)
left hatch
if you absolutely need 10 corruption resistance go for Formless Void otherwise the play is still VoP major, CnS, Sphere, Lucid and sometimes Aegis
craggy harness
is it dropping now?
polar kite
Does that affect SR?
spice lotus
oh, are the cards not dropping from M+? That'd be 😦
spice lotus
dang, that would explain why I cannot get them to drop, haha
craggy harness
🙂 but sad
full monolith
can you guys help me with trinket selection? mostly running m+ and pugging raid:
475 Humming, 465 Gore-Crusted, 460 Torment, 460 Vita
full monolith
ye thats what i am running atm, guess I ll change to vita if defense is lacking
left hatch
honestly the second option is really feelycrafty
cause vita has a massive stat budget
but block's crit is really nice in M+
id probably go vita in raids cause parry loses a lot of value ST
M+ id sim to see which gives more aoe dps and go with that between the 2 of them
full monolith
sounds good. thnx for the help! appreciate it
frail blade
Hello guys, I see some people use major slot Azeroth's undying gift . It's a good for high m+ keys??
left hatch
thats a new one
the only 2 meta pics i know of is VoP in 95% of situations
and sometimes lucid but only in very high keys (like 18+)
and with a coordinated group
left hatch
yah i can see the use just havn't heard of it done yet
ionic fern
EV doing so much damage currently helps you go more defensive setup anyways.
left hatch
and seems like even more of a niche pick than lucid
mental scarab
Most my only TC trait with my 475 head 😐......
sick sentinel
mhh
mental scarab
Lost
sick sentinel
did we have a haste soft cap or hard cap?
mental scarab
No
left hatch
not an obtainable one
mental scarab
200% i belive
left hatch
100% is where GCD stops scaling
and 140%ish is where you can sit in 100% SB uptime without last stand
so those are the soft caps really
ebon hound
~~100%~~30%
winter loom
whats the most efficient way to get strength of the warden rank2/3?
winter loom
so basically full runs
strong forum
Yup
frail blade
Is there any point to use strength of the warden as minor slot when I have low corruption
left hatch
no
even if you need the corruption resistance, Formless Void is a better pick
unless your entire group is using VoP or something so it never procs
royal rune
Rezans dropped yay!
wooden radish
@ionic fern
ionic fern
Mute when. 
exotic spoke
Hi Lincoln
nova gale
Anyone wanna just hand over an EV item like now. I wanna experience greatness before nerf
I am waiting
winter loom
which minor would you swap for formless void in m+ (if you need the corruption res)? I guess sphere? Since the versa from cns is too big and lucid just helps with IP/SB?
formal hedge
Hey peeps, any tips with dealing with tank buster add in m+? How r ppl dealing with the miniboss?
mortal brook
sweet summit
facetanking on <17s, running away
formal hedge
Thats what i was thinking
Face tanking maybe the first and second spirit breaker leap away and run
exotic spoke
Kiting mostly
left trout
an ele shaman's elemental is also really strong against it
exotic spoke
But that’s cause I’ve usually used it for skips
formal hedge
Burn shield wall
Yup
I mean its for the first bit
Its kinda anoiying in some spots with all the ground spored
Spores
So leaping away in some dungeons is not that easy
exotic spoke
Charge the spores and then leap
formal hedge
Back to the ghuun days i see
left trout
i guess people doing like 20 keys are using the undying gift to better survive the breaker of heroes tank buster?
exotic spoke
People may be using undying gift temporarily to survive mechanics because they are undergeared for the keys they are doing. But in general there are much better essences to use
empty nacelle
tbh, the fear guy is way more obnoxious imo
exotic spoke
Blob is scariest for me
empty nacelle
im thinking outside of just tanks but yeah sure
empty nacelle
yeeeep
exotic spoke
The dot is the scary part for the fear one Nome
tame garden
Just make your dps tank them 🙂
empty nacelle
has anybody tried doing them with endbosses? besides the spider
empty nacelle
yikes
tame garden
Was only a 13 or something so it worked out
But wouldnt recommend
Spider is just so much easier than rest if you dont need kicks on boss. Always spider if possible imo
Blob adds a lot of tank damage and you need a boss that let's you kite around
empty nacelle
also, are there any endbosses you'd recommend not having any lieutenant?
tame garden
Siege is awkward
exotic spoke
Did blob on siege I think. Or was it spider. Wasn’t too bad.
tame garden
I hate that it spawns so far away
exotic spoke
Shrine is one where you should be doing slime or spider imo. Healer can pump on it
You should do as much as possible during last boss
empty nacelle
how does the spider work there when you phase out?
tame garden
It's in both phases
keen bluff
What dungeons should you run Null barrier on? What should a good uptime on ignore pain be?
exotic spoke
Only if it’s not dead before you go down
empty nacelle
yeah
exotic spoke
Look. Just pump more Speg. Don’t question my flawless logic that was obviously well thought out
tame garden
Ya if I was gonna do one on shrine it would be blob
Tol has to be spider but still spooky
Siege is just awkward as hell and losing dps on the boss is rly bad
empty nacelle
AD?
hushed cobalt
Did atal11 and had tank buster with last boss. Didn't seem that bad but wasn't tyrannical and not that high of a key
exotic spoke
Wouldn’t want to do tank buster with boss pretty much at all in higher keys.
Too much down time
And you’ll be dead - the big hit and physical debuff you take will wreck you with the boss hitting as well
keen galleon
Ya that's gonna be a no from me dawg
tame garden
Skewer
cobalt ore
Spirit breaker seems to be decently mitigated with spell reflect. Plus you can los it
strong forum
on higher keys you have to los / kite it
tame garden
You cant los it anymore
strong forum
it will straight up 1shot you through everything
cobalt ore
I ran some 14s last night and I was able to los it. But ranging it didn't help
cobalt ore
Ah
tame garden
Afaik it was patched to not be losable anymore this week
tame garden
@hearty flume have you confirmed what's up with los tankbuster
cobalt ore
What's everyone go to for neck essences. Which do you guys swap most?
strong forum
Vop major
sphere/lucid/cns/aegis minor
null only in very specific dungeons
for m+
cof major
cns/null/vop minor
for raid
cobalt ore
I've never used null for major. Just minor
strong forum
nobody is ever taking null major
hearty flume
I believe they hotfixed so you can no longer LOS the tankbuster
you can still outrange
but not LOS
cobalt ore
Sorry I read that wrong. I thought you said you do.
tame garden
Ty trell
exotic spoke
People have said both this week so I dunno. Easy face tank in lower keys
There you go I trust trell
Cause Speg trusts trell and I trust Speg
strong forum
🐻
tame garden
Trust no one, not even yourself
cobalt ore
There's a saying. Trust but verify 🙂
twilit smelt
what do I do if I keep ripping threat off of the cotank and my RL tells me to do less dam
tame garden
Ask why the cotank cant do more dam
cosmic cape
dude this spoke to me
i tank with a blood dk that goes full turtle defensive and i outdps her by like 15-20k
and i pull off all the time
like she takes ablative shielding over overwhelming power
strong forum
Well for dk ablative is actually good
cosmic cape
over OP tho?
cobalt ore
Her name isn't declan is it?
cosmic cape
no
cosmic cape
yeah ill have a crit proc on my azerite like wandering soul or whatever and sometimes i just have to cry and watch it tick away because im one shield slam away from pulling wrathion and breathing the raid
cosmic cape
say fuck it and breath the raid
strong forum
His issue
dull forge
Press less buttons
worthy pulsar
sorry to jump in! any thoughts on void ritual for us with the incoming buffs? just got this 😍
strong forum
Pulling threat by dps as tank, is unacceptable
Itll prolly be the best defensive corruption @worthy pulsar
cosmic cape
we just got this monk in my guild that pumps ALMOST as much as me like within 3-5k dps and i kinda wanna swap em
dull forge
When you are dying say you can’t maintain IP cause you have to slow rotation
worthy pulsar
nice one 😄
cosmic cape
but again like golub the dk is a vet so
strong forum
Like, a tank should atleast do 25k dps minimum without corruptions
That's the absolute bare minimum
cosmic cape
dks are real good for this tier and defensively in general but most that i know dont do damage
strong forum
Then they're not good
cosmic cape
well neither am i
cosmic cape
my only shitty parses are vex because i wasnt beam tank everything else is mostly orange some purple a few pink
i dont think my nzoth is amazing either
cosmic cape
haha its kills me to have a table full of almost all orange and then the blue vex parse XD
cosmic cape
i used to be 30th havent relaly done much heroic this week and slipped to 97
what trinkets do yall run for illy G? i usually use a sigil of warding for second laser but dont know what damage trink to use. ive been using mechagon laser just to break mcs out
analog zinc
@cosmic cape tell your cotank to fucking taunt
DKs should NEVER lose threat
since they have 2 taunts
cosmic cape
i meant she taunts and uses grip and still i rip threat
cosmic cape
ahhaha i had a monk trying to tell me to use that cheat death major i was like uh nah bro i aint doing that XD
she said thats what she does but idk
tame garden
What a meme
cobalt ore
Lol
cosmic cape
beats me
analog zinc
its good for like
tame garden
😂
analog zinc
azshara
cosmic cape
you never know
analog zinc
& orgoi
both bosses from last tier
there's zero bosses this tier where you'd want a cheat
cosmic cape
them pizza slices hurt man
analog zinc
at the cost of crucible
strong forum
Bruh How's that orange logs
analog zinc
if anything just run a tank trinket
cosmic cape
most of those are like first or second week of raid i got a R3 infinite star 1h sword right away so i had a head start i guess
havent been running much heroic this week
strong forum
Well we're only in 3rd week
How did I do 38k on Maut and it's not pink log then
:angery:
strong forum
^
cosmic cape
so what trinks do yall run for illy G im trying to get that parse up but cant think of a good damage trink to use
cosmic cape
i use sigil for second laser stack and then mecha laser punchcard just bc it basically instantly breaks people out of mc
but it sucks bc of the on use trinket cd
analog zinc
you doing mythic ilg?
cosmic cape
no
analog zinc
the boss does zero damage
strong forum
And mostly on mythic too
analog zinc
your healers have like 20 seconds to top you off
cosmic cape
i guess first week i was dying sometimes maybe my new gear now i dont need it
analog zinc
you dont even need a CD to live 2nd beam on heroic if you're topped
cosmic cape
ok ill try without next time
exotic spoke
Does anyone know how the trinket “writhing segment of drestrogath” actually works? Like specifics I mean
cosmic cape
everyone still using coral and ink?
strong forum
P much
exotic spoke
Yes Padden
cosmic cape
yeah
strong forum
Dps wise Nya trinkets are dog
cosmic cape
i only have 430 ink and 430 socket coral feelsbad
cosmic cape
if they were gonna do that i just wish when i tclapped everything got inked XD
yeah now with mostly 460s i probably dont need sigil for anything on heroic probs
i always forget to pop coral tho im bad
analog zinc
i killed heroic n'zoth on day 3
the ONLY boss i used defensive trinks on was n'zoth himself
& that's just so i could rotate LS & sigil every void lash
& even then i prob coulda lived anyway with just slightly better play
night crow
Spirit breaker seems to be decently mitigated with spell reflect. Plus you can los it
@cobalt ore Probably just ignorant of me, but what part of spirit breaker can be reflected??
cosmic cape
on blood mallet for hectic add cleave is arcane tempest only 2nd assuming you single target until youre at max stacks and then aoe? or is it just flat aoe damage
analog zinc
arcane tempest sims at max stacks
its physically impossible to reach the sim numbers
cosmic cape
hated that trinket since day one
tame garden
He was wrong @night crow
night crow
okay thanks, I was kicking myself for a second
ebon hound
Does SR not reduce the dmg of Spirit Breaker by 20%?
nova vapor
exotic spoke
The goggles - they do nothing
warm plinth
You also can't LoS spirit breaker anymore, so that person was doubly wrong.
cosmic cape
so i need 10 resist essence is formless void a good minor at R2 it sims higher but idk if the sim is realistic
tame garden
Not sure for keys but I get almost 100% uptime in raid on the minor
strong forum
^
mortal brook
the more ppl that get the r3 the better. cof takes the gifted haste so much 😄
can stack on a single person
stiff remnant
Man, after playing resto druid for so long and grinding so much coming back to my prot warrior at a level 40 neck and no essences seems so overwhelming
Dont even know where to start
Excited ot tank again though awwwyeah.
cosmic cape
its gonna seem rough at first. dont give up! all prot warriors are destined for greatness
strong forum
start with VoP
lucid and aegis
theyre so easy to get
maybe start arena too
although sphere is giga easy too
wooden radish
@ionic fern reeeeeee you're not here
exotic spoke
Just time consuming since it’s purely an honor grind after rank 1
manic scaffold
Anyone else bored of this patch
warm plinth
Nope.
tame garden
Nope
steep oracle
not really.
cosmic cape
damn that heart of darkness trait is pretty decent eh i just changed to that from like a BoM and a flurry and i got like 1k extra dps
cosmic cape
didnt pay attention to it before
sleek flax
warm plinth
I don't think there's any such thing as a corruption that doesn't stack, except maybe the CDR ones
craggy harness
Yes
wooden radish
@warm plinth are you Horde or Alliance Pinky
craggy harness
Just thinking of all the corruption limit and method was showing on their stream lol
warm plinth
Horde
wooden radish
Oh rip
warm plinth
Why do you ask
warm plinth
Haha, yeah I have alliance toons but I think the best geared one is my warrior at 425 ilevel, and he has garbage essences
tame garden
You're in charge of harassing @ionic fern
solid mist
Just started tanking with my warrior, wich are the best trinkets at the same level ?
solid mist
some trinkets are better if 430 than a 445 one
warm plinth
As each other? lol
dusky mica
XD
tame garden
The best trinket is diamond-laced refracting prism
solid mist
at the same level is if all are IL445
glacial thorn
Does gale force multiplier affect just melee speed or like overall attack/spell speed
dusky mica
the best trinket depends on the fight, most people in here will steer you towards dps focused trinkets with haste and crit
you'll get a better answer if you just say which trinkets you own rather than make people list every trinket in the game
If you're new, you should probably just run a lot of Atal, Waycrest and perhaps Kings Rest.
sick sentinel
KR 😆
dusky mica
Atal has a decent haste proc trinket, Waycrest crit and Kings Rest trinket is an extra oh shit button for some edge cases.
tame garden
In terms of farmable trinkets just get rezans gleaming eye and gore crusted butchers block yeah
dusky mica
Atal and Waycrest trinkets are fine to use on your dps offspecs too.
solid mist
[Corrupted Gladiator's Insignia] 445 - [Bloodthirsty Urchin] 420 - [Gore-Crusted Butcher's Block] 430 - [Humming Black Dragonscale] 460
[Void-Twisted Titanshard] 445
sick sentinel
Draconscale and gore crusted
On uses feel aids to use and also a lot of people forget to use it on CD
warm plinth
Is that one the on-use? I know one of them is a proc
Yeah that one is the proc according to wowhead. That's not bad
sick sentinel
proc on strength?
warm plinth
Basically alc stone without the health pot effect
sick sentinel
I'd still use gore
ionic fern
@wooden radish suuup
ionic fern
Home,watching tv
wooden radish
why are you cheating on @sullen valve
wooden radish
friday night, no hot date, big yikes
sullen valve
tame garden
white hollow
gotta Q, this one, or...
which one should be bet
absorb is not tracked by details
and cauterizer does a decent amount of overhealing
warm plinth
Cauterizer's redeeming feature is the bleed removal
Not the heal
Can remove like the berserker bleed in KR
broken stratus
guys any idea on the fear mob add that puts nasty bleed on? I cant kite and keep threat as i am telling my dps to blow their cd and murder them. there is also no rogue to tricks
wooden radish
@ionic fern you're back at your PC
broken stratus
either i run my dps gets killed or i stay and i get killed
broken stratus
4x bleed hurt on 18
ionic fern
Yes it does. 🙂
warm plinth
What do you have in your comp?
tame garden
Grab a few stacks then leave dps to fend for themselves
hoary viper
What talents do we run in raid compared to m+?
sweet summit
honestly, the same. you can go devastator for more ST damage but less survivability
leaden grail
is the maut or the n'zoth tanking trinket stronger (m+ and raid)
exotic spoke
@wooden radish hi! I saw your ping. Hope you’re doing well. If you’d like I can DM you about that to set some up friend
tame garden
Nzoth trink > maut trink
leaden grail
for any content? good. i really prefer that one as the cooldown is only a minute (only got the maut one so far ..)
wooden radish
@exotic spoke oh i was just memeing. i'll worry about my alts later 😛
maiden ravine
okay, yeah, so motherlode you do all but 10% of the trash before second boss cause screw the mastermind area
oh well, lesson learned
barely missed timer, I don't wanna tank a 9 siege
keen galleon
Do we have any up to date corruption sims or good resources to use for it?
Or is it too variable?
keen galleon
Mostly because I have a weird thing about liking to know if I should be excited about stuff when it drops to be entirely honest
tame garden
Valid
keen galleon
The disconnect of wait to sim it then decide if you're excited or not is legitimately kinda bothering me
Like titanforges had that instant WHEEEEE YEAH BOY
and I mean, so does twilight devastation obvs
broken stratus
does using engineering rez not during combat count as brez?
keen galleon
Yup
full cloud
back last patch i asked how much DPS prot does in a typical +10-15 (8.2.5), and heard back 20-30k typically. but then somebody posted their +18 with them doing 60k+ overall. and ever since then i've been feeling like a PoS, but didn't go into details. is 60k overall possible without pulling a lot every pull? like am i just playing really wrong or are they doing some coordinated shit that i probably won't realistically achieve in a PUG 13-14s (8.3)?
now i'm doing about 40k overall a run (twilight devastation), maybe 30k last week cause bursting or whatever it was
sick sentinel
Pugs are easier to get more dps
full cloud
cause i just don't see... i get orange parses in raids
i think i know the basics
but i can't do that much overall cause i can't pull giant packs (or maybe that's what i need to learn)
sick sentinel
First of all, corruption has skewed numbers. And ilvl is higher. So there is a huge reason damage is higher. Another thing is to take advantage of the high damage output with corruption people pull big. High key runners will always pull bigger than your average player
full cloud
right, but if @sick sentinel is coming from 40-45k overall last patch i still feel like a PoS, lol
full cloud
so just pull bigger, huh?
tame garden
Yup
sick sentinel
Huger*
tame garden
Pull bigger and keep clapping
full cloud
so, theoretically if you only do 3 pack pulls
no way to get more than 30k really without some mechanics or odd interactions, etc
overall that is, not burst
full cloud
haha, 3 adds
full cloud
hmm, what about bosses tho, don't you falloff a ton there?
like i dunno but just by feel/memory i prob do like high teens for bosses
single target
sick sentinel
^
raw turtle
is torment in a jar good for prot warrior?
sick sentinel
I do 50k average on bosses
full cloud
maybe? but i do orange parses, and i can get 200-300k burst with big pakcs, i dunno
i won't say i'm great but
i should know the basics
and it's not that complicated
sick sentinel
50k average on bosses would shock me
inland silo
maybe if you pull trash with the boss
full cloud
yeah are you pulling trash packs with bosses @sick sentinel?
full cloud
lol
sick sentinel
I have never sustained 50k on a boss without pulling packs with it.
full cloud
yeah, i would feel worse than a PoS if you're telling me i can do single target 50k in a m+ setting :(
without some odd interactions
full cloud
dayumn
tame garden
🤔
sick sentinel
If that’s true I am impressed
full cloud
i'm def doing something wrong then, unless you're using infinite stars perhaps?
sick sentinel
But link the logs
tame garden
What corruptions
sick sentinel
I'm not using infinite stars
I have an echoing void and I'm pretty decked in gear though
tame garden
Can't wait
sick sentinel
3 boms, 475/465. Dps trinkets and echoing
sick sentinel
echoing only does like 18% of my damage though
full cloud
@sick sentinel, how much are your dps doing overall at the end of a run? you guys sound big dick AF
sick sentinel
18% isn't much
considering our dh runs tier 3 twilight
and it does 25m
as a dps
where I'm less than him
as a tank
tame garden
It means you're gonna do 10% less next week
sick sentinel
Twilight is more busted than echoing is
tame garden
🙂
full cloud
how much healing do you think is normal for a typical +15 run? anyone have recent memory of what they've seen?
sheezus
sick sentinel
inland silo
I do 50k average on bosses
@sick sentinel
sick sentinel
That was the previous statement
tame garden
Healing is really variable
sick sentinel
then we were talking about overall
don't switch back to old arguments
it's not healthy
tame garden
Depends on dungeon/comp/pulls/affixes
How many casts are going off
Cant give an average hps
full cloud
true @tame garden, but i wanna say i see like 30k +/- 10k usually
just looking for ballpark
sick sentinel
average hps for me varies from 22k to 31k
The ball park is how bad do you and your dps suck at avoiding damage
keen galleon
Eight the factor to consider here is thunderclap is 50% of your damage and scales linearly with targets. If you pull 1 target thunderclap does 10k dps. Two targets, 20k dps. Four targets, 40k. Eight targets, 80k.
Like your damage is DIRECTLY dependent on how many targets you thundrrclap
full cloud
i hear ya
keen galleon
If you run with awful dps and a good healer, pulls will be long and you'll thunderclap everything lots and damage will be high
If you run with good dps and they're killing shit in half an avatar window your dps is bad
broken stratus
can you give some tip doing 50 st dps on boss in M+?
keen galleon
In really high keys your dps is inflated because the whole group is good so you can pull big, but monsters live a long time anyways
sick sentinel
Get extreme amounts of gear
keen galleon
Have perfect gear
full cloud
haha
full cloud
for real though, is there a m+ log site where you can see the breakdowns?
sick sentinel
Unless you are pugmaster hawgz
tame garden
Warcraftlogs
strong forum
You can log m+ like you can log raids
tame garden
But most people dont log keys
sick sentinel
and everyone else is doing 80k overall
full cloud
i thought warcraftlogs only showed times @tame garden
full cloud
oh okay
sick sentinel
makes my own overall and everything else skewed
keen galleon
Look for real, prot war dps is really not complex. You literally have 4 buttons that do damage and 2 cooldowns
full cloud
lol, that's why i feel like shit @keen galleon
strong forum
Gear helps a ton
keen galleon
I'm saying dont feel like shit, recognize it's almost certainly gear optimization
full cloud
gear optimization not L2P?
tame garden
L2corrupt
strong forum
Both
keen galleon
If you're using avatar and demo on cd and doing tclap > shield slap > whatever, you're playing the dps side properly
full cloud
my ilevel is 456 as prot
keen galleon
Like that's seriously it.
keen galleon
I got a single twilight dev tier 1 and it's 12% of my damage done
full cloud
just 2-3 packs a pull
tame garden
That's not what packs means
full cloud
i do have a t3 twilight dev which is why i wanna be closer to the high estimates here
strong forum
Then your overall should be higher
sick sentinel
Then misplay is the reason for low damage
full cloud
and i only pull boss alone which feels like one of the biggest areas for improvement
tame garden
Oh you said earlier 3 adds
strong forum
Not a good idea on sanguine
full cloud
yeah, sorry i didn't mean to deceive @tame garden, i was just being hypothetical
i think i mentioned it
tame garden
Yeah trash with bosses is only some weeks
full cloud
the burst DPS is decent, i'll usually do 80-100k depending on the pack as the scale example by @keen galleon was like
gotcha
it's usually just me and 1 DPS that i play with consistently, always PUGing the rest, admittedly i don't vet very carefully either, i just go by ilevel
usually my 1 DPS friend is the highest DPS at 50-60k
overall
tardy warren
I timed my first 10 of the season (as prot) with a pug today. Feeling 10 ft tall and bullet proof RN. If I can do it, anybody can lol
full cloud
haha, grats
but i got some good ideas anyway, so i'll try to integrate those and also look for some actual m+ logs on warcraftlogs, thanks everyone
full cloud
what buffs? lol
tame garden
Huge
sick sentinel
bear buff
keen galleon
If you're pulling 3 packs at a time in 14s at 455 ilevel I think you probably shouldn't feel shitty. I'm 450 and struggling to survive smaller pulls than that.
full cloud
it's not all the time @keen galleon, definitely mob ability-dependent
and yeah i feel squishy AF
which is why i don't rambo pull entire zones of the dungeon like you can at low +
which it sounds like the big boys do on high keys somehow
round vortex
Can confirm
keen galleon
I havent done a key since I replaced my 415 shield with a 460 shield so I'm hoping that helps lol
tame garden
You just need more gear
full cloud
lol, dayumn
tame garden
Um
round vortex
And the absorb trinkets are insane. 1 min CD 250k+ from N’Zoth
tame garden
That is a massive upgrade lol
full cloud
okay i'll try and reserve judgement for 460
tame garden
Shield ilvl is very important
sand egret
tame garden
You will for sure notice a difference
keen galleon
Yeah I was 447 with a 415 weapon, shield, and 415/405 on trickets
full cloud
jesus
full cloud
lol
keen galleon
My m+ chest was 465 twilight dev boots so even if they were only a 5 ilevel upgrade I cant bitch
full cloud
haha, nice
okay sorry, i have one more point of discussion: just started looking through logs, this is the top ranked prot war on warcraftlogs.com for m+. just looked for a random +15 that had a log associated with it: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4AVY8Mk7QtLxpRaC#fight=2&type=summary
his overall was 22k unless i am misunderstanding
is it perhaps like the difference in how DPS values are recorded in details, actual vs active or something like that?
but that DPS looks astonishingly low too so maybe i spoke too soon, it says it was from jan 27 tho
short veldt
what traits am i looking for if im looking to be more dmg oriented in m+?
tame garden
It's different in logs vs details
full cloud
Jan 27, 2020
tame garden
Details only tracks while in combat, while on the logs its overall dps for the entire run including downtime between pulls
chilly brook
Prot warrior is like the one tank that doesn't sacrifice damage to begin with @short veldt
full cloud
@tame garden gotcha
chilly brook
So literally the same traits as is recommended for m+ in #268491842637660160
short veldt
ok ty
full cloud
iirc, details is set to default to be like warcraftlogs tho, so maybe...
chilly brook
If only more people actually read the guides
undone sun
there are differences with details and wcl how in/out of combat is handled
full cloud
well shiet, i guess parsing my m+ will be as objective as anything :)
analog zinc
bastion of might is bis defensively & offensively
1x deafening crash is i think even than BoM
your other 2 traits can be whatev
neutral stat traits
Iron Fortress & Brace for Impact are pretty bad offensively but strong defensively (BfI is amazing offensively for ST, but it has zero aoe scaling)
@short veldt
glacial thorn
Does anybody know if gale force multiplier affects just melee weapon speed or like overall attack/spell speed
left hatch
Just melee
prime kernel
sooo, is 5% leech corruption worth having or should i cleanse it :: ? during m+ my leech is in top3 of my HPS, halp ::
analog zinc
top 3 isnt much when you have 2 abilities that show up on healing meters
just means you dont have IV / Resounding
left hatch
- stop looking at hps its a bad metric for tankiness. were not blood dks
exotic spoke
This degenerate blood dks
analog zinc
but you'd be doing less than half as much dmg as other tanks
left hatch
- its ok if you dont have other options. leech is fine but dont sacrifice corruption for it
basically anything but the avoidance or crit damage roll is better than leech to take
prime kernel
yeah i mean, i dont have anything else to swap for atm. but was considering it once i get smth good 😛 , also its only 28 corruption so i dont feel it yet
and @analog zinc i do have 2x IV + 1x Resounding
yet, leech is still higher on big m+ pulls than these 2 , it does a little less than IP and Edict
autumn pelican
Any good prot M+ streamers I can check out?
left hatch
go to raider IO -> open up top warrior list
ones streaming will have a red dot next to their name
autumn pelican
Nice one thanks
sick sentinel
I have 9% and my leech does about 5/6/7m hps
it gives me more healing does 445 urchin does
Depending on the pulls obvoiusly
obviously*
raw turtle
is torment in a jar worth using as a dps trinket ?
shy minnow
Hey guys how much dam does the wrathion weapon do in m+ with you round about? (%)
olive merlin
what essences are you guys running for m+ toying with lucid major or VoP major. Not sure that is the best move
maiden ravine
I do vop major cause I like avatar
tame garden
Vop is the move
digital heath
is the wrathion a decent trinket to have as tank?
warm plinth
is the wrathion a decent trinket to have as tank?
@digital heath Yes, it's good
ivory barn
Heroic N'Zoth.... is something else
sick sentinel
Extremely easy
ivory barn
yeah, we just 4 shot it in a 2/2/6
sick sentinel
two shotted it in our group with 2-2-6
wheat python
Hey guys what affects the neck essences? Is it just neck level or also versatility?
sick sentinel
Crit and vers
wheat python
I.e. how much HP you gain from Anima minor stacks
wheat python
I have 2 peices of EV though
wheat python
I see..
left hatch
that 30ksome hp you're getting from Anima is a pretty negligible increase to EV