as much as you can without dropping ilevel specifically for it
#protection
loud kestrel
but having 7% vers
undone sun
better than 0% ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
undone sun
yeah
analog zinc
i think the only haste cap is like 22%
& that's just so you can chain 3 shield blocks
without dropping any
exotic spoke
That number is wrong
exotic spoke
Because of ITTF
broken stratus
@loud kestrel if you are new, i did prioritize haste and versatility. it helps more against bleed and magic damage, which is what you will struggle with starting out to tank
analog zinc
ye crit does nothing for non-AA based dmg
or does crit increase rage gen from autos?
warm plinth
22% is if you have only 1 stack of ITF which is pretty rare.
analog zinc
ah interesting
broken stratus
if you rotate shield block and last stand, melee attack dont really hurt you
haughty forum
50k patchwerk as tank is insane. How much corruption though?
I felt like my test run of 2x rank 2 echoing void & doing 52k in Junkyard was swole but yikes...
analog zinc
50
i got a t2 EV & a t3
i would have 60 without formless
& in m+ i'd prob use like warden minor
opal igloo
how is this trink for defensive value?
undone sun
not good
analog zinc
horrible
haughty forum
Which two M+ trinkets should I be aiming for?
warm plinth
Rezan's + Butcher's Block
finite gull
I am no longer part of 3x BoM gang anymore. Got a chest that was 40 ilvl upgrade but it had no BoM on it. 
exotic spoke
Most people leave that gang but come back
Iโll find out soon if I leave or stay in for now
finite gull
Whats triple BloodSport like in M+? I can have that if i swap out of a brace for impact
ivory barn
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jaNZ8mVEH4FEVXDxUPJJsN only the heroic version >.<
hushed cobalt
for m+, both being t3, does racing pulse beat the mastery proc? was gonna cleanse it to use in raid as arms
ivory barn
๐ฆ
outer dew
@warm plinth my heart pulse for Ghash is BIS tbh
exotic spoke
@finite gull Iโd use brace over bloodsport
finite gull
Yeah the extra block and more dam just seems nicer overall
exotic spoke
I get to see how happy or sad I am soon
left hatch
ewww triple bloodsport
for context 1 BoM raises your AP enough to equal about 1 BS
plus all the other bonus'
you don't even want 1 bloodsport much less 3
analog zinc
@finite gull bloodsport is pretty bad
it just increases the size of your IP
& in like <15 keys you're already grossly overlapping IPs
its not actually 1k more shielding every time you click IP
or however big the buff is
10k i think?
left hatch
every other prot trait, and tons of generics are more valuable than it
analog zinc
either way that'll irregularly be consumed, & when it is consumed, its still worse than other traits
left hatch
another issue is its a static increase to an absorb
nothing else in the game, pull size, better gear, etc will make it a better trait
whereas every other prot trait scales on key level, mobs in combat with you etc somehow
graceful vessel
I got 475 annodized deflectors in my cache, anyone know if theyโre good for prot war survivability/dmg?
analog zinc
thats the wrists with parry on use ya?
warm plinth
Mmhm
left hatch
parry avoidance and a shockwave
analog zinc
i got some but same ilvl so not gonna bother
graceful vessel
Yeah thatโs right
exotic spoke
WhT was the corruption on them?
broken stratus
hey guys, for the tank buster, i have been able to los through corner, like the stairs and tunnel in TD. however, it isnt working for me anymore. can anyone confirm if you can still los through corner?
i know distances still works
exotic spoke
Yeah
alpine mantle
Searing flame or echoing?
warm plinth
Echoing
raw turtle
which is more valuable, rezan's or vita trinkets? i have both but im not sure which one to use
torpid wigeon
should I go for heart of darkness? or Iron fortress
exotic spoke
Grats man
@sick sentinel I see you and I are in the same boat based on that SS with our Windows keys
oblique garnet
warm plinth
Black market Windows ๐ฌ
sick sentinel
I build a new comp so my windows key got lost
next stone
I got two pieces with r3 infinite stars. I feel like I should not tank with 123 corruption right?
sick sentinel
and wasn't arsed enough to fix it
warm plinth
Um, no, definitely not ๐
rocky garnet
@sick sentinel is that overall?
rocky garnet
thats nuts man
sick sentinel
UR overall with world vein major
sick sentinel
Fuck no
rocky garnet
lmfao
sick sentinel
It's aids to play with
oblique garnet
is that with quaking sanguine ?
eager rose
Post damage done per ability pls @sick sentinel
sick sentinel
Ye it's with sanguine
worldvein major is actual toxic with sanguine
and nobody else was using world vein major
right when you get shards you have to move sometimes
next stone
Also quick question, would it be more beneficial to have a second Brace for Impact or second Defening Crash (For mostly raiding)
eager rose
What would you have been without world Vien? Dps
eager rose
I mean dps
eager rose
Would it have been close to the same
eager rose
Ah k so not too much of dps increase but def something
exotic spoke
worldvein pumps
oblique garnet
I mean you could hit 50-60k dps last season without EV on weeks where you could actually pull big
sick sentinel
ye this isn't that week tho
kinda trap to pull big
with sanguine fucking everything
and this overall
was on a UR
lol
not a wcm/freehold nor ml
oblique garnet
UR is good to pull big tho
eager rose
Do all our abilities scale off weapon damage at all?
eager rose
So the higher ilvl main hand I have will increase my thunderclap for example?
warm plinth
Yes
eager rose
Oh wow interesting
raw turtle
Weโd like to give everyone a heads up that weโre working on tuning adjustments to several Corruption Effects. While we donโt have exact amounts just yet, we have some certainty that in the next 24 hours, we will:
Reduce the effectiveness of Echoing Void significantly.
Rip
eager rose
I think that answers my question for you guys then, I got 475 shield void tentacles last week, and was wondering what spec to open my chest this week
eager rose
I'll go prot for the main hand chance even if I get dup shield?
And should I be worried I get tank trinkets from chest instead of dps trinkets which could be good too?
sick sentinel
dps trinkets are fine
left hatch
theres only 3 tank specific trinkets that are garbage
sick sentinel
unless it's a very high key and you absolutely need them
left hatch
so its not really a concern
eager rose
Basically what spec should I open chest in, I already have good 475 shield with corruption
left hatch
prot
eager rose
For main hand weapon chance?
left hatch
yes
eager rose
Ok tyvm wish me luck, a duplicate shield would be crushing ;-(
left hatch
that seems like a very 1% problem to complain about
warm plinth
So glad we spent two weeks farming TD and EV amirite?
eager rose
What's TD and EV?
left hatch
significantly implies worthless from here on out in comparison
eager rose
Ah gotcha
left hatch
time to hunt for crit/haste procs ig :/
eager rose
Ok ty everyone for advice
waxen cradle
So with the stated significant nerf to Echoing Void coming where does that put Prot in terms of value of corruption effects ?
left hatch
well have to see how significant 'significant' is
warm plinth
I mean, it just means we'll prioritize other effects
left hatch
and depends what other effects they make better and how
eager rose
It said if we go in tank spec health of vision mobs reduced by 25%
Is this an additional 25% on top of what it already was decreased?
left hatch
solo only tho
most people trying to optimize that run in a group
so its only a benefit for casuals
eager rose
Ah damn that might be me
oblique garnet
you can do full maks clears solo as tank anyways
waxen cradle
True I for one am interested to see what will be buffed, one of my corruption effects while not great is the 1275 haste proc, if they buffed that it would be pretty amazing
As of yet I have not gotten Echoing Void or Infinite Stars on any gear, and I am kind of glad in a way if the value of effects is going to shift as they suggested
left hatch
i think theres only a chance for one from the lost areas
only guaranteed drop this week is dwarve and trade districts
ivory barn
Trinket off of Maut good?
sick sentinel
Defensively, itโs pretty good imo
But i think there are better trinkets that provide both offensive and defensive value
cinder storm
I looted as fury by mistake. I want to say that the ring + corruption effect are good/ok and it's still an upgrade. So I guess I m going to farm mechagon for the other band.
warm plinth
Yep, junkyard has the part you're missing
maiden ravine
gonna miss topping dps as tank. ๐
sick sentinel
You could do that without echoing?
and everyone else is getting a nerf too
so why does that make your own dps go down further?
but blizzard really hates the M+ers
Making it so you can't line spirit breaker
can't snap tentacles back anymore
fear guys does massive amount of damage
nerfing the most prominent damage dealer in M+
Kinda buns
alpine mantle
So searing flame may be better than echoing void?
sick sentinel
Don't know until tomorrow and sims update
shut stag
how much of a nerf to EV?
alpine mantle
I got both.... and just donโt know which one to cleanse
sick sentinel
I literally just said we don't know until tomorrow and sims update
wait until tomrrow
eager rose
Hey big brains what piece is better to buy if looking for bastion of might on 475 azerite, chest or shoulders
eager rose
And how do I find out the drop possibilities
warm plinth
The individual pieces are at the vendor; just look through them there.
eager rose
Oh so I get 475 azerite from heroic last two boses?
Ah k gotcha thanks
I didnt know azerite off last two boss is 475 though, that's awesome, in heroic right?
warm plinth
Yes
sick sentinel
azerite from vendor are 480
last two bosses are 475
but it's better than getting nothing
and 465
eager rose
Ah sweet tyvm guys u rock
alpine mantle
Is still rough three shield blocks, last stand, then three more rotation?
eager rose
Ah interesting
sick sentinel
what chest did you get
eager rose
A cd reduction corruption or essence could probably do it huh?
sick sentinel
no it wouldn't do it
eager rose
Ah bout to get on in 30 min
sick sentinel
shield block is purely haste
eager rose
I'll link it here when I do
I heard 20% haste for us before fray is this true?
Then crit after 20% haste?
warm plinth
No
marsh silo
increase haste from all sources worth keeping or cleanse it?
warm plinth
If you can keep it without it getting you killed, keep it
sick sentinel
haste source is very good, especially with vita, rezans, OP, ms and haste proc
pastel remnant
is humming black dragonscale 460 a good trinket?
sick sentinel
yes it's one of your better ones
eager rose
Was he saying no to stopping around 20% haste? Isnt that soft cap?
warm plinth
It is not the soft cap
sick sentinel
100% is the soft cap
pastel remnant
i ahve rezan ilvl 30 and juste got humming should i switch?
warm plinth
The 22% "breakpoint" or "soft cap" you see mentioned is not even relevant 99% of the time, because it's assuming you have 1 stack of Into the Fray, which is hardly ever a thing.
sick sentinel
because that's when GCDs overlap
warm plinth
Since you get stacks of Into the Fray from both friendlies and enemies, you'd have to literally be tanking a single target away from everyone else in your group/raid for that to happen
pastel remnant
i ahve rezan ilvl 430 and just get a 460 humming should i switch it?
warm plinth
Yes
eager rose
So does that mean I dont even need 22% I can use less if I have more stacks of into the frey?
pastel remnant
@warm plinth thx
daring sable
on m+ how viable is versa vs haste?
warm plinth
M+ is ilevel>haste>crit
Raid is ilevel>haste>vers
That means you do not need to hit a magic 22% breakpoint, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to get all haste possible without dropping item level.
daring sable
overwhelming power still worth when going big or shall i stick to usntable flames?
warm plinth
They're probably pretty comparable at this point. I usually still go with OP when it's available.
warm plinth
Whatever floats your boat
eager rose
Ah ok thanks
daring sable
its still quick navi or?
warm plinth
Force Multiplier typically
daring sable
really
warm plinth
Yep, has been pretty much since Force came into existence
alpine mantle
So it sounds useless to save shield wall as a cool down.... should just be part of rotation when tanking a raid boss?
warm plinth
Why do you say it sounds useless?
alpine mantle
No idea lol
warm plinth
you're fine. We were all new once
It is definitely a cooldown, and should be treated as such. However, it is up pretty frequently thanks to Anger Management, so you don't have to hold on to it forever or anything.
alpine mantle
I guess I gotta get out of the mindset of saving it for an oh crap moment
warm plinth
Use it to fill gap time in Shield Block/Bolster, to mitigate a big boss damaging ability, etc.
Yeah, typically in raids everything is pretty scripted so you can usually figure out a place to use it effectively.
Even if you don't necessarily need it, if you're not using it anywhere then you might as well use it for something.
alpine mantle
Like my shield block uptime for prophet was like 28% I feel that is super terrible
warm plinth
Uptime is irrelevant. % of blocked hits is a much better metric.
alpine mantle
Thanks!
warm plinth
If your % of blocked hits is low, that probably means you're not using Shield Block/Last Stand when you should, and/or you're using it too often when you shouldn't.
daring sable
what about heed my call vs unstable flames? ๐
warm plinth
Unstable Flames, easily
lucid pendant
Sphere is bad this week bc of sanguine right
warm plinth
Eh, not necessarily. I've had more pulls fucked by mistimed stuns than snares. It's only 10% more of a slow than Thunder Clap
dark lark
Isn't prophet all magic damage anyway
oblique garnet
Yes
dark lark
Yeah at that point it's just used to buff damage on shield slam
oblique garnet
Pretty much
cinder storm
Is Honed Mind good for prot?
last gazelle
IF you kill the awakened pillar boss with the last boss in the dungeon does it give % ?
cinder storm
Yes
random gust
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why I do such little damage in raid
tight brook
hey guys what do you think is the best Esssenz setup at the moment for prot in m+?
sick sentinel
Vison major CnS/Lucid/Sphere/Aegis/FV for corruption resist
royal rune
Are 2 iron fortresses good or not?
left hatch
depends what your other options are, but they fully stack and its a good trait
royal rune
I'm 450 ilevel with a 450 indomitable and 410 blue 1H. Will upgrading my 1H improve my ilevel?
And what mythic level could I be tanking at 450
warm plinth
Any slot's ilevel going up would improve your ilevel.
left hatch
every piece improves ilvl
besides tabard, shirt
and you can go up to 15+ easy with that
warm plinth
And since you're at 450 with a 410 weapon, it's probably gonna be at least 1 or 2 overall with that big of a jump.
left hatch
in coordinated groups
pugging tho idk 10's?
pugs are usually super strict when it comes to ilvl
royal rune
Yeah. Coordinated groups would make a big difference
exotic spoke
Even pugging 450 is more than enough
royal rune
It didnt change on my fury spec tho! I had 445 on one hand and 390 on another
Then equipped 2 445's and my ilevel stayed thr same
ivory barn
illgonoth is trucking me cause I have like no vers. any tips?
royal rune
Also is it worth saving my titan residuum for the 475 ilevel helmet shoulders or chest?
2150 tr
left hatch
its enough to handle it, but its not necesarily enough to get the invite
which is th ebigger issue
and im saving for the random 475
warm plinth
I'm saving for random 475s as well
haughty forum
Saving for 475s is probably the smart move but I went with 460s quicker because delayed gratification is a scam. No ragrets though, got BoMx3.
ivory barn
im being Trucked on Il'gynoth any points on getting Vers stat? I have 2 430 rings but they dont have corruption stats, but they do have vers
ivory barn
Ik not to go to them lol
left hatch
ilvl>all still
left hatch
the only meh stat is mastery and thats only because BoM gives you a fuckload
haughty forum
What about a ring? Worth losing a bit of ilvl for ring sockets?
grizzled glen
dragonscale and vita shard a good combo?
grizzled glen
over urchin/edict?
left hatch
yah ilvl eventually makes urchin/edict irrelevent
so unless you have like 455's of them
left hatch
yah no heroic scale+vita much better
grizzled glen
kk ty
ivory barn
would farming KR/Atal for the vers rings gbe worth?
dusky mica
If you want more versatility farming those places is a good call since they also drop some other useful bits
pallid berry
hey is the void charged titanshard alone a better trinket then 430 urchin
left hatch
nope, its awful
pallid berry
i thought they were good together, so is it worth it to jsut get void?
left hatch
the proc together is ok
but outside of raid or without vita its 100% not worth running void
wrathion trinket is very good though
left hatch
even then the combo proc isn't phenomenal
there was something about it a week ago, low ppm or something
that you're just better off going vita + rezan/wrathion/butchers
shadow tapir
ok, if more stats > specific stats is that a hard formula with 0 exception? I can upgrade for a total of 68 overall more stats but a -98 to haste (due to losing socket)
warm plinth
What are the two pieces?
shadow tapir
grabbing screen, 1 sec
the 450 vs the 455 is what that is showing
that's probably better way to do it, lol
sick sentinel
For one, fuck pawn, two I'd just the socketed piece
sharp night
that doesn't look like 68 more stats to me
sick sentinel
just use*
warm plinth
Yeah I'd use the socketed piece
warm plinth
Depends on how big of a nerf it is
shadow tapir
mind if I post 1 more pic to make sure I understand?
it's another socketed piece with favorable secondaires but the stat difference is more substantial, +30 ilvl but a ring
sick sentinel
sockets for warrior are only about 5 if it's a regular piece and I think 15 for a ring stat wise
shadow tapir
shadow tapir
ty
sharp night
sockets are worth 25-30 ilvls for damage
if you factor in stam then about 15 overall stats
broken stratus
guys, should i pick bloodsport, or icite the pack or recklessflurry?
sick sentinel
would you guys suggest taking 1 iron fortress over 3x deafening crash for keys?
so instead you'd have 2x deafening, or could even go 2x iron fortress and 1x deafening
ionic fern
@broken stratus BS is a defensive option, RF is a single target DPS increase - which one do you want? Pack is meh.
@sick sentinel You don't take 3x DC 's anymore.
So you'd go 2x IF 1x DC in that situation.
sick sentinel
5 target cleave i'd lose about 2k dps going 1x iron 2x deafening, but idk if that takes the damage done by iron fortress into consideration
I understand why as considering the extension of demo shout, but even for a dps build for keys double IF is better?
left hatch
extension of demo shout doesn't stack
left hatch
right, but just from a dps perspective theres better things
DC stacking hasn't been optimal since season 2
and while IF will lose you a bit of dps short term till you can swap out for a BoM MS piece
that block value is incredibly valuable
so unless you have a 475 shield IF is the way to go
left hatch
then def roll with IF
chilly brook
even with a 475 shield IF still remains incredibly valuable
mortal brook
guild ele sham got a 475 EV3 shield >.>
sick sentinel
guess that makes sense considering 3rd row i'm going dps traits
since ablative/azerite veins seems pointless atm
sick sentinel
UF
left hatch
and even Gutripper/Heed are better choices than most of the 'tank' inner rings
left hatch
Unstable Flame
mortal brook
unstable flammes. stacking crit
mortal brook
5 target what
hidden plaza
is corruption trait glimpse of clarity any good ?
mortal brook
glimpse is suuuupeer tiny
sick sentinel
and patch and kinda judge what i think's best
still thinking i should run my QC trinket though over double dps trinkets
left hatch
id swap out CnS
for sphere or lucid
CnS is basically our best minor for any situation hard stop
left hatch
wha'ts QC trinket
sick sentinel
left hatch
oh edicts
sick sentinel
yeah when i'm chain pulling the phyiscal damage reduction gets thicccc
left hatch
yah but at 445 yo'ull eventually get something better
left hatch
a heroic vita would probably beat it out
left hatch
Vita isn't an on use, its like Rezan's but gives haste to other people
left hatch
and then of course Rezan and Butchers are tried and true
sick sentinel
i keep getting the void one ๐ฆ
hidden plaza
what corruption traits are the ones prot wants for m+
left hatch
as of rn TD and EV
left hatch
you can run both
mortal brook
pretty comparable. Raidbots can let you sim with a corruption ceiling
left hatch
but id sim for the feet to see if its worth dropping ilvl for
mortal brook
deffff
hidden plaza
I can't i have 470 pants with socket and ev
ivory barn
im thinking about purifying my entire warrior att this point. cant even survive at a 459 ilvl for fucks sake
ionic fern
Survive what?
left hatch
survive too?
warm plinth
o_O
left hatch
if you want help on that youd need to link logs
mortal brook
how much yoou runnin fam
ivory barn
I have a log linked in #449510248579858432
ionic fern
Wat
ivory barn
I have a shitshow for a toon
we just ran a +13 KR, and I couldnt even survive a boss hit. Illgonoth tonight I couldnt take 1 breath
ionic fern
๐ค
inland silo
Do you have bubble wand macroed to your abilities
ivory barn
I swap the coral for like a 460 block at times
ivory barn
how can you spam a passive?
ember plinth
He's running devastator
left hatch
well just on wrathion yo'ure not making use of Spell reflect
you can SR the 2nd breath before your swap to easy survive it
ionic fern
Why are you tanking boyth Dissolve and Crush? ๐
left hatch
then you misplayed running out of the fire pools
mortal brook
ooo reeckleeses
ivory barn
we had a bad taunt swap
ionic fern
So what fight are you struggling on specifically? Won't go over every fight. ๐
Ilgy?
ivory barn
well tonihgt it was I'llgonoth
sick sentinel
If you want to tank a fight poorly hmu
mortal brook
wait, sorry, ignore me
ember plinth
Which fights are you looking at Steve? Wrathion?
sick sentinel
Yeah buzz off Steve
mortal brook
ikr
ionic fern
19k DTPS isn't that much. ๐ค
ivory barn
all help is appriecated. im trying to understand wtf im doing wrong
how do u see that?
ionic fern
I honestly can't see what the problem is for you to think that you're doing somethiung so horribly wrong. ๐
This is your HP. ๐คท
On Ilgy.
left hatch
yah the raid logs look ok....
mortal brook
this maybe
left hatch
you sometimes leave Demo shout off cd for awhile which is bad
but thats the worst thing iv noticed
ivory barn
how do we explain the horribad dmg intake in keys?
ionic fern
Keys are a different beast.
sick sentinel
Whatโs your shield ilvl
ivory barn
455
left hatch
well what exactly in keys is trucking you? any particular dungeon or boss
ionic fern
SOOO many things that can be wrong in keys.
Are you facing the mobs?
Are you interrupting casters?
Are you keeping SB or LS up?
Are you using DS/Avatar on CD?
Are you not waisting rage?
etc
sick sentinel
Hmmmm. Keys there is a lot more that can go wrong
ivory barn
btw, y'all are legit keeping me from throwing my war off a cliff rn
mortal brook
have any key logs?
ivory barn
how do u do a key log?
sick sentinel
Only logs I have are in the toilet
warm plinth
I recommend Loggerhead. Just click yes on the box that pops up when key is activated (click no on all the rest of the boxes unless you want non-m+ logged for some reason) and it'll autolog from that point on.
ivory barn
well to put it blankly. the Blade comob on the last boss of the +13 KR was trucking me with SB /SW up. the Zul guy was trucking me through spam IP casts
I cant take normal mob hits
ionic fern
Zul trucks regardless
warm plinth
Prot war + Zul is a shit combo tbf
ember plinth
That's just normal KR
ionic fern
Bladecombo does 0 damage with SB up tho
mortal brook
workshop mobs hecked me up today. like 120k dtps ๐
ivory barn
Like, I got that it is a fort week, but anything I pulled nuked me
inland silo
Hex priests will destroy you if they arenโt kicked
ember plinth
and you get to skip most of the berserkers now
ivory barn
and for the raid I was runninng Cof Maj, Null, VoP and Void minor
mortal brook
theres a few dungeons logged that yoou were in. not seeing any significccant rootational issuues
ivory barn
whoa people actually log this stuff....
ionic fern
What are you comparing your damage intake with even?
ivory barn
during tEP i felt totally fine, SB/LS or IP. nothing felt like I was going to nearly die literally every pull. Now I feel like im being ran over by a truck
also, I have all these trinkets + a 430(S) font in bags
mortal brook
its still early in tiere
ember plinth
You also lost your best healer extremely early on during shad'har, but brez was on c/d because a random dps died
ivory barn
been using block/vita
mortal brook
fights likee Ilgy, therees a LOT that can distractt a healer from TLC for you as well. so much avoidablle things your dps aree eating
warm plinth
Looking at a UR 8 you ran. 2nd death during Cragmaw was apparently people just letting ticks spawn because it's fun
And you were taking 110k bleed ticks
mortal brook
on necro week? =/
ivory barn
how do I get to the damage intake screen?. ive never dug into logs as a tank
warm plinth
1st death looks like was bursting from the tick pack, which happens during bursting week lol
ionic fern
Press on "Damage Taken" tab.
warm plinth
3rd death was also ticks
So far, nothing you could do about these deaths really
Group needs to not suck at mechanics
mortal brook
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jFd2YHNxtJ1rq9cW#type=damage-taken&fight=42&ability=310322 so llike, on yoour best ilgy pull, 16m damage from ppl sttanding in pools when they shouldnt. thatt's so much attention that coulda gone to keeping you fresh
ionic fern
Tbh the only time you need healing on Ilgy is to top you off after each beam and nothing else.
warm plinth
Frankly I think you're putting too much pressure on yourself
ivory barn
you think im going to overboard with this?
warm plinth
From what I've seen so far, yes
ionic fern
If your group sucks in m+ you WILL suffer.
warm plinth
You can't do everything
mortal brook
as far as dmg intake, if its too much on a pull cuz you're puushin, start kiting a bit more. again, not seeing any rotational issues.
ionic fern
It's like the first pull in SotS - you pull big and it will go one of to ways:
1)Group interrupts casters/healers properly and you will kill it np
2)You will die within the first 5 seconds cause no interrupts.
mortal brook
but def seeing a lott of avoidable dmg getting eaetten by your raiders
sick sentinel
Sigil of Warding good?
ivory barn
thank you guys for the help. Im going to try and not be such a hardass on myself I guess. The resto druid I had in my +13 key may have been fucking with me I dont know. but he did say I was taking a lot of damage. Im going to have to just start looking at things
so out of curiousty. on the illgonoth pull here was my damage taken breakdown. does then mean I took an average of 98k a tick?
mortal brook
sigil is good for any tankbusters that would hit every 2 minutes. theere arent aaany of those this raid tho.
that looks like a high nuummber of AAs not blocked for prot war?
ionic fern
@ivory barn
ivory barn
how do you get that giant list... mines like 4 abilities
mortal brook
damage taken tab, then pick your name
for instance
the info on the right is what you're mitigating and such from things like armor and block
ivory barn
which fight # was that Mwahi?
ivory barn
Thank you again.
Any recommendations to getting better other than obviously learning how to rotation
oblique garnet
Comparing logs and analyzing your own ones
warm plinth
I like recording my runs too, so I can rewatch myself fucking up ๐
mortal brook
thats alll gammeplay for some of us tho 
royal rune
Best gem is STR gems like icy veins says??
oblique garnet
one 120
warm plinth
Yes, strength then haste after you have the 120 str
royal rune
Ah ok
opal python
What's the best trait setup for raiding? Or can I just get away with the m+ setup? 3 bastions and 2 brace
+1 deaf crash
Was thinking maybe spec to fury and get reckless flurry for single target dmg and maybe blood sport for some of that magic dmg?
ionic fern
In general you can get away with m+ setup as well.
If you wanna focus on more ST DPS then just sim the gear you have.
zenith vigil
why in the world
is the top m+ warrior running conflict and strife in his major slot
๐ค
zenith vigil
oh never mind i found out
ionic fern
@remote dawn depends on what else you have. You can sim it.
crimson furnace
are the changes to corruption live??
@work atm and wont be home for another 8 hours..
saw the news
of the changes....
and as a tank using a tier 2 EV....
only corruption that I have
not sure how to feel...
I was doing insage dmg in M+ tbh...
palying with stam flask as well :)))
remote dawn
@ionic fern Unfortunately nothing 
is just a general question of whether the effect is good
brittle owl
why would you play with a stam flask ๐ค
warm plinth
No they arenโt live
ionic fern
Yes, the effect is decent Balrox.
strong forum
I got t3 stars 475 gloves from chest
Fuck me
I already have 470+s crit haste gloves...
remote dawn
ty ๐
brittle owl
trash trash trash
grizzled glen
which combination of trinks you guys would prefer out of these: rezans (465), Vita (460), and/or Dragonscale (460)
sharp night
sim it
zenith vigil
or compare it on trinket lists and guess
dragonscale got a buff or a fix to work right? i don't remember
grizzled glen
just thinking on M+ perspective tho
not raids
idk if I can really rely on a dungeon slice sim
sharp night
the fix is just making it so it doesn't always give you slowfall
it has an on-use active now
you can't really go wrong with any of them
strong forum
I'd go with rezan + dragonscale cuz vita doesn't have static str
strong crown
sweet summit
EV BEFORE THEY NERF IT
dusty glen
How's the verse procc for us? Specifically in m+
marble cipher
EV nerf 'will be coming' (said blizz)
Opens three chests today
Three times EV.....
sick sentinel
bcc
dreamy fulcrum
@dusty glen one of nicer choices atm, unless you want to go full bazooka with offensive essences
dreamy fulcrum
What do you mean
dreamy fulcrum
Well, haste is still giving you more survi that vers anyway
dusty glen
really, that bad?
dreamy fulcrum
Its just that haste is so good
dusty glen
How's leech then?
dreamy fulcrum
Its just positive feedback of haste that gives so much
More rage, more block, more ignore pains, faster demo shout and avatar, and more rage
And there goes the circle
Its only cool if you have it without any sacrifoce
dusty glen
yeah and the procc thing aint permanent like the haste
dreamy fulcrum
Yee
dusty glen
and if I try to run both I end up with too much corruption
dreamy fulcrum
Classic haha
left hatch
the leech one isn't worth the corruption
dusty glen
and even if it wasn't too much I'd still end up with 500 less haste than with my current ring combo
really?
not even with lucid in M+?
left hatch
major's have absolutely no bearing on how good leech is or isn't
dreamy fulcrum
Leech is strictly healers choice
ionic fern
๐
dusty glen
May'be Ill cleanse my wrists then
left hatch
lucid major is used in like 18+ keys when you mondo pull and absolutely NEED 40s of uninterrupted critical block buff from BoM to live
yo'ure not taking it for the leech
and its only better than VoP major in that situation
where you plan around it
left hatch
then they are flat out wrong lol
dusty glen
other than the high key part
left hatch
if you arn't playing around the 2m cd to mage giga pulls
its a waste of a major
and VoP has more value
dusty glen
So if I wanna play properly I should play it but in pugs it's a no?
ionic fern
Who are the "quite good tanks"
left hatch
If you want to play properly you use VoP 99% of the time
Lucid is only worth it with hyper coordinated groups in exceedingly high keys
otherwise its flat out inferior both in terms of damage output and survivability
I'm more curious what 'quite good tanks' say to use it for lol
dusty glen
oh mainly 3,5k+ guy I've played with
figured that count for something for m+ knowledge
ionic fern
"Quite good tanks" also used Siphoning so..
left hatch
and not playing around that with a big pull is.....
wasteful at best
since VoP gives you higher overall uptime
dusty glen
no no he never used siphoning that was my thought
left hatch
well tldr if you don't need 40s of avatar to live. you either need to make bigger pulls, or use vop major
thats 'should i use lucid' in a nutshell
and a lot of the time pull size is limited by affixes, or group damage or interrupts so
its situational
strong forum
Martins that 470 is way better than the 430
dusty glen
but ended up telling me to use higher ilvl ring?
left hatch
why wouldn't you? its our best stat
strong forum
Like not even close
left hatch
and for rings... more stats > good stats
strong forum
For the socket alone
left hatch
verse and crit are close behind haste
and mastery is only bad because we get so much of it from bom
ionic fern
Anyways:
Lucid is as already said 40s of Avatar uptime together with being pretty much immune to damage due to spamming IP consistently which is formidable in higher keys where pulls last enough and your healer actually focuses on other things ..e.g DPS'ing or CC'ing or w/e.
It also takes considerable 'skill' to play it to full effectiveness due to the 100+ APM during lucid windows and trying to keep an eye on your rage bar before casting SS/DS as not to waste any of that rage. It's catered to big pulls and is efficient there.
dusty glen
ait so just the raw stats outvalue the haste because on tanks they are so equal but you always have prefered ones
left hatch
and when its equal ilvl its Haste>crit for M+ and Haste>verse for Raid
dusty glen
that's a good explanation Mwahi
sick sentinel
good no ??
jagged stump
Nerfbat incoming for the best of them so keep everything you might need tomorrow
Crit is getting a buff, haste is always nice maybe it gets even better.
strong forum
So I might need to stock up on UF corruption
strong forum
Well Morrison answered
left hatch
^ i said its fine lol
strong forum
It's not good, not bad
left hatch
not terrible, not great
strong forum
All things considered it's a great roll
ionic fern
It's only for 4s but a pretty high ppm like 5 or something.
strong forum
BTW how does IS t3 faire in m+, got it from weekly and now hoping, after seeing bout EV nerfs, that it's maybe competitive
ionic fern
IS != good in AOE situations.
strong forum
I know it's terrible in multi target
sick sentinel
ok but i have luck because it's triple proc
left hatch
its the best feeling when VoP procs extend it until it comes off cd (:
sick sentinel
VoP ?
left hatch
Vision of Perfection
left hatch
not an obtainable one rn
100% is when GCD stops scaling
140%ish is 100% uptime of SB without using Last stand
sick sentinel
ok
fluid copper
What are the best Essence for a m+ week without nectoric?
thin obsidian
How much is max corruption i should have?
ionic fern
VoP major with Lucid,Sphere,Aegis,CnS minors are all decent.
@thin obsidian in general below 40 as a tank.
fluid copper
What about Nullification Dynamo?
Currently running VoP, CnS, Strengt of the Warden and for the 4th Slot i would go for Dynamo
ionic fern
Considering m+ is 95%(ish) physical damage then null falls out of favour compared to other options.
Also most of the magic damage in dungeons is interruptable/avoidable.
strong forum
Only really useful for WM / ML / Workshop, dunno about magic dmg in junkyard
fluid copper
Why did the high end M+ Tanks always use Dynamo?
fluid copper
Femclap uses them in all his Runs
ionic fern
๐
fluid copper
Yodawarr aswell
strong forum
Fem also used 
ionic fern
^
strong forum
Doesn't mean it's good
thin obsidian
@ionic fern oh shit, iam at 80 (A)
fluid copper
Alright
ionic fern
There's no harm using null r3 - if you want to, use it.
There are just better options out there.
Also, don't compare yourself to top r.io tanks since the chances are that the content you are doing and the content they are doing is not the same.
In a lot of situations they are just testing out different things to see what's working for them as well.
strong forum
Underwhelming to bad
It averages out to an IV in healing done
So nothing great, at r3 it might be kinda decent cuz of 3% more stam. But that's about it
fluid copper
Is the weapon from Wrathion worth to lose around 10 ilvl from the currently equiped weapon?
left hatch
no
the corruption effect on it is only like 4-5% of your overall dps
and even then its not really worth the corruption compared to other rolls
fluid copper
ok thanks
left hatch
and as for why Null is meh compared to other options it largely comes down to it being a static thing
No matter how large a pull you make, your Null is only gonna absorb X amount
whereas the benefits from haste and verse scale with your pull size
If you're thinking about it from a dps perspective too its inferior
fluid copper
What about CnS vs Aegis?
left hatch
In raid its super nice cause mostly ST fights that consistently proc woo, phat 2-3k dps increase
but in M+ you either can't consistently proc it (which realistically speaking what dungeon outside of shrine consistently has packs with high magic damage),
or you engage in bad / silly play to consistently proc it like missing interrupts, standing in corruption eye etc... at which point why even run a magic abrosb when you could avoid the damage in the first place
plus it being a split damage proc it loses value drastically the bigger your pull
where stat increases just gain more value
im too lazy to napkin math but id imagine a full stack of CnS gives much more than 2-3k dps increase in aoe
which is Null's output if you fully pop iton cd
for CnS and aegis, CnS wins out in most cases
its arguably our best minor full stop, and really should never be taken off
with correct play its fully stacked 100% of the time
Aegis is more niche, its great on teeming, or if you're spending huge chunks of the dungeon with (i wanna say its 4+ targets but im not on game to double check)
fluid copper
Aegis is around 72 Versa per Mob
left hatch
but for it to be on par with CnS you have to play around it, ie chain pulling, pulling into a boss fight etc
fluid copper
Yeah iยดm running CnS aswell for the uptime with small pulls or boss fights
So Major should be VoP (except Necrotic) and minor CnS, Lucid and situational?
left hatch
why wouldn't you run VoP on necrotic? o.0
and yah napkin math says aegis is on par with CnS ~6 targets
left hatch
you don't need that at all
Sphere gives enough of a slow you can just walk away from mobs
and you always have shockwave + heroic leap
fluid copper
Didnt run sphere as minor
crystal dirge
can you somehow set droptimizer to use Reckless Fury traits?
left hatch
and if anyone in your group DOES have any sort of a slow it overwrites the roots anyway so you don't benefit from it at all
Sphere is one of our better minors, and theres an argument to be made about if its better than lucid
constant slow + 100% uptime of 300+ haste is really strong
so if you want something cookie cutter thatll work regardless of affixes its VoP, CnS, Sphere, Lucid
with formless swapped in for sphere / lucid (its feelycraft which is better) if you absolutely need corruption resistance
fluid copper
Thanks for the information and your time
left hatch
np
flat jackal
Would you guys give up one bastion of might for a 475 azerite piece?
strong forum
Depends on the piece
ebon hound
ilvl > everything
strong forum
But generally yes
However, I'm not giving up my 450 Kraken for 475 horned horror
That would be straight up inting
flat jackal
I have a 450 kraken
flat jackal
Got one that only has deafening crash
strong forum
Do you have Horned Horror per chance
Cuz that's the worst possible Shoulder piece in the game :)
flat jackal
Not shoulder
Helm
Has overwhelming power
DC, the shield slam one, overwhelming power
flat jackal
Thanks
wary lantern
should i try to farm EP trinkets for tanking if i dont have them for m+?
ebon hound
I wouldn't, Wratheon trinket, raden trinket, rezans and goreblock would all be better alternatives at the ilvl you can acquire them at
wary lantern
kk,ty
errant oriole
Do we know what a "significant" nerf to EV will be or do we just have that one blue right now?
flat jackal
I stopped using my EP trinkets and I time 18s fine
oblique garnet
This season 18s ?
strong forum
It can range anywhere from 30 to 60% or more Seiver
So yes, we will have to wait for the blue post
flat jackal
Yes, this seasonโs 18s @oblique garnet
strong forum
That's quite powerful
foggy wing
hey guys, i got
is it better then 460 wrist u think? since no stats
mainstat ofc bu tye
glacial flint
u can try macro it on demo ๐
glacial flint
i mean when u wear the new essence as minor - like me u can ez get 75 corruption on your gear
so echoing void 3 = 60
and then u got 1 small thing with 10-15 corruption for free
glacial flint
maybe 20 .. with cloak upgrade
glacial flint
yeah sure me2 .. i bought the echoing void shield for 690k like 3 days ago :X
foggy wing
aiii that suxx,hhope nerf wont be to bad for tanks xd
foggy wing
twilight devastation is so random i dont like it
some pulls it can do giga, some pulls it does 0
i really prefer the EV becuze its just always there
glacial flint
yeah and echoing void deals dmg to near enemys.. so less randomness there too
glacial flint
before the patch 8.3 hits it was obilivously they didnt balance anything there at all
all those stats things nearly trash af
glacial flint
hope we get later on in patch more res (or changing the affix levels) so we can play with more items
foggy wing
full corruption set please :3
glacial flint
they did nothing on ptr.. acitivion kicked 1000+ employees.. and game was even before rip^^
even in raid so many people getting laggs of these void stuff
foggy wing
yea we raid wednesday/sundays
and evry wednesday evening its a shit show
we start 30-40 min later becuze bliz their servers cant handle it
carmine galleon
hey guys, is there any guide for corruption gear?
craggy harness
don't spend money on it until we know what blizzard is going to do?
foggy wing
craggy harness
i mean, i'm literally waiting to feel screwed over, and I only have an EV tier 1 that i finally got yesterday on a shield
tender phoenix
is it better to stack corruption with haste or crit? for mainly M+
foggy wing
haste>crit for mplus, it would depend on howmutch crit u have to i guess
oh sorry didnt read the corruption, euh i would go for the crit one,
sick sentinel
so have a 445 haste vers wrist with a corruption proc vers 728 for 20 seconds. or a 465 crit vers wrist. is ilvl still better than procs?
tender phoenix
i have the base void ritual on my bracer and a 6% crit on my belt with this on rings
marble cipher
haste ones for prot, crit ones for fury?
(yes, thanks blizz for giving the same slot from chest two weeks)
glacial flint
ye shini
im blacksmith and getting belts over and over ^^
wod was better... free sockets ..
marble cipher
true, I'm bs as well, so I was hoping for no belt/legs, didn't count on a double boots now ๐ฆ
carmine galleon
what do you think about this boots? should i cleanse it at mother and use? i'm having too much corruption by using them.
mental scarab
Yeas, and why do you socket vers ๐
carmine galleon
it was place holder ๐
raw turtle
i got modular plating from my weekly chest, is this trinket any good?
does it have any uses
strong forum
It's beyond useless
The literally worst trinket in the entire game
It does absolutely nothing
limpid pawn
i got 475 razdunks big button
should I even use this? I have 460 vita, 460 void, 475 wrathion trinket
445 urchin/445edict
analog zinc
prolly not
tame garden
limpid pawn
the vita + wrath trinket seems awesome though
exotic spoke
Morning