protection

[sand egret]

[wooden radish]

[warm plinth]

Does this mean if I'm not at work I could be talking to Lincoln's man right now?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

Wait, Lincoln's man?

What did i miss.

[warm plinth]

Yeah. He's your cat. You're his man.

That's how the man-pet relationship works.

[sand egret]

This is the way.

[tame garden]

It is known.

[warm plinth]

I have spoken.

[onyx abyss]

Words

[undone sun]

[zealous cargo]

Should I pick Blood Rite over Bloodsport?

[undone sun]

as those are your only options? yeah probably

[warm plinth]

I would

[zealous cargo]

I love the haste, but i wasnt sure how often it procs vs having a bit more leech and a lil bit more dmg absorb from IP

[oblique garnet]

Leech

[ionic fern]

[warm plinth]

Well, in M+ especially it can be up quite often due to refreshing when you kill things.

[analog zinc]

@zealous cargo a small amount of leech changes nothing & the extra amount on IP ends will likely get wasted unless you're doing like 18+s

[sick sentinel]

Did someone say the magic word

[ionic fern]

Don't even start.

[tame garden]

🏃‍♂️

[wild sandal]

for prog , shouold i keep razan 450 wiht urchin 445 or edict 430, or do i drop razan and use the other two

[analog zinc]

for raid prog I would always default to dps trinkets

tank trinkets should be only used for specific fights

[sick sentinel]

Double tank trinkets 🤢

For prog, just use double tank trinkets. You can still do a lot of damage with double tank trinkets and it just makes it easier

Why do damage when you need to learn mechanics and survive?

You can switch to dps trinkets once you learn the mechanics

[distant crystal]

most bosses having tank trinets isn't really going to help you

[sick sentinel]

Of course I didn't do that, I did dps trinkets all the way but the leverage it gives you I'd do

[distant crystal]

and sometimes the extra tank dam can make or break it

put on defensive trinkets if you're dying

or nearly dying

otherwise dps

[warm plinth]

You're a tank dam

[distant crystal]

[strong forum]

Dam a tank you are

[sick sentinel]

I just did an atal

Man tanks confuse me

did 10k dps on the boss, I pulled threat 6 seconds into the boss and got meleed to death

?????????????

on my fury

[strong forum]

It appears the tank didn't press his buttons

[broken isle]

did u blow ur bote a micro-second into the pull?

[strong forum]

Even then, a single taunt from the tank does wonders

[broken isle]

i guess if its a boss then that is pretty weird

[sick sentinel]

I didn't even push bote

I didn't even push my reckless yet

[strong forum]

No way in hell should a fury be able to yoink aggro

[sick sentinel]

he did 3k dps on pull

forl ike 10 seconds

[strong forum]

Nice

Expert gamer

[sick sentinel]

absolute legend

I think he just keg smashed

then didn't do anything after his taunt

and just ran

[broken isle]

did u say anything mean to him 😛

[oblique garnet]

Not using reck on pull 🤔

[sick sentinel]

no

I didn't have reckless

🤔

[oblique garnet]

I dont remember the last time ive not gone to rezan first

[sick sentinel]

Pulling left side first

[broken isle]

i just tanked a sanguine motherlode i need a trophy

[sick sentinel]

sanguine motherload fine

[strong forum]

Sanguine bolstering when

[sick sentinel]

^

now that's good

[broken isle]

u can be like me and pull the dinomancer pack this week

[sick sentinel]

dinomancer?

[broken isle]

erry1 loses their mind and then it turns out fine

the pack right in front of last boss

[sick sentinel]

that's a normal pull?

[broken isle]

not rly but when u pull left side first, and then skip a ton near volkall it is

[strong forum]

Dinomancer is big yike

Too much hp to chew through

[broken isle]

eh there's pros and cons to both

[analog zinc]

dinomancer bis during bolstering

[analog swift]

yeah

dinomancer actually is good

if you snap

then just keep snapping saurid packs on it

but the health to % ratio is bad

[distant crystal]

wdym

dino is sick count

it might actually be the best health to % in the dungeon lol

i guess dinomancer himself is way above average count, his two pets aren't great, but the pack overall is pretty decent

and if you snap it it's fairly easy

[analog swift]

ehhh i'm not so sure

maybe but i'd rather snap two saurids

then do that pack for example

[analog zinc]

how do you snap dinomancer pack?

[tame garden]

Same way you snap saurids

[woven venture]

I love snapping the dinos and saurids but I don't feel confident doing it most times. I should prob go practice in normal

[distant crystal]

it's actually super easy

just don't be a klutz and fall into rezan pit :p

[autumn pendant]

^

This tbh

Like me

Many times 👀

[distant crystal]

i've lifegripped many a tank back up

:p

[sick sentinel]

[woven venture]

I get out there easily, it's returning that makes me nervous I'm going to fall. I just need to practice it more probably.

[distant crystal]

[warm plinth]

That's uh

That's not a cat 🤔

[junior ivy]

My boy

[sick sentinel]

“Any dog under 50 pounds is a cat”-Ron Swanson

[near ivy]

"and cats are useless"

[sick sentinel]

Pointless

Ya hate to see the misquote of Ron

[faint cove]

hey guys new to the channel but alot of good info here, two questions to start off with. 1. how are you useing memory of lucid as major(in mythic+) to maximize with it? is it between avatar or along with it ? 2. in raid my parses are quite low are you guys useing differant builds as in crit vise haste or anything in raid compared to mythics ?

[oblique garnet]

@faint cove are you doing 22+ keys?

If not dont use lucid major

And its used with avatar to maximize cdr on avatar and last stand

To get 2x avatars back to back

[left hatch]

damn kids and their lucid major smfh

for the second part of yoru question, dps builds are more based around Talents, Traits, Essences and Trinkets than it is specific statlines

[faint cove]

@oblique garnet no more like +16 ish keys but it does help me live / make up for a weak healer

[left hatch]

for stats sim yourself, for trinkets the meta is usually Inkpod, Cyclo, Razor Coral, or Phial
Essences its CoF Major, Cns/VoP minor, Null minor
Talents its swapping booming voice for Devastator
Traits its stacking as many instances of Reckless Flurry and BfI
(for st raid dps)

and it does not help you live or make up for a weak healer unless yo'ure playing in a very specific way that you absolutely NEED the leech and 40s uptime of avatar

the use of it is super niche, and you get more both offensively and defensively out of VoP major

[faint cove]

running razor as tank ? yea i was way off on essences and trinkets i was set up much more defensive i will check that first thanks

[oblique garnet]

For m+ defensive trinkets and traits are fine

For raids its a toss up between progress and just meme parses

[left hatch]

razor on tanks is still for the same reasons as dps, cheesing it to make sure dribblepod stacks crit

and yah for M+ the perfect 'just right' balance imho is Rezan and Butchers block

[faint cove]

i will use that today i got em both but had only been useing them as fury

i am wearing rezans and btuchers as we speak

[left hatch]

and then the tried and true 3x BoM 1x DC and Vop Major, Cns, aegis, sphere, lucid minor combo

[oblique garnet]

For higher keys id always run defensive trinkets like urchin and edicts

[left hatch]

higher in this context being around the 20 line

but yeh

[marsh stirrup]

Hello! how tf do i deal with high magic dmg? like when you have a cc emmi on a caster pack, taking humnongus amounts of dmg from it at

the momen

t

[left hatch]

pop cds, kite, have a boomy spam root it

(by it i mean the emmisary)

[marsh stirrup]

aight, cause i mean taking 1m dmg in a matter of 10s~~

is hard to deal with

even with nulli essence

[left hatch]

null essence isn't great

in M+

[marsh stirrup]

aight

cause was doing a 11 TD and the salt blast just destroyed me

went through shield wall and SR

kinda lowbie

[left hatch]

well for the most part magic damage is a healer mechanic

[marsh stirrup]

but still

[left hatch]

outside of SR you either have to play smart or pray your healer is awake

[marsh stirrup]

cause you dont have alot of room in TD, and this week is kinda bad with grievous

welp yea

kinda frustrated

whiile underrot is a joke

[left hatch]

in cases like Tide emmisary, it depends on the pack, you can play around it so you can still interrupt by seperating it from the pack
in some instances this is just taunting outlying mobs and it pulls the pack w/o the emmisary (like the pack before 3rd boss in atal)

[marsh stirrup]

barely taking dmg there

[left hatch]

in others it means spam CCing her with a druids roots

[marsh stirrup]

ye my group wasnt that woke

they were not in the know

[left hatch]

but yah TD. in particular THAT hallway you're talking about

is my least favorite area in M+ this season

[marsh stirrup]

haha yea

you even know

cause ive gone from bdk to bm to prot war

and only had this prob with war

just dumbfounded feeling like dummy

[left hatch]

bdk isn't inherently better at dealing with magic damage

[marsh stirrup]

not high tier no

but lowish it just outheals

[left hatch]

yah on low keys its fine cause you're 'almost' self sufficient

but yah reactive tanking blah blah

and SR becomes way better than ams the higher you go since it just deletes mechanics (and turns them into dps) instead of partially absorbing

[marsh stirrup]

yeah

and it feels like your group kinda needs to know what to do for war to work sometimes

[left hatch]

ehh

[marsh stirrup]

i dunno

noob here

lol

[left hatch]

i disagree with that, in a lot of cases proactive tanks are 100% on your understanding the content

[marsh stirrup]

true

its just these situations where i get spellspammed

and flops

[left hatch]

might be personal philosophy, but thats on you to communicate with your group

to coordinate interrupts

and stuns and w/e

[marsh stirrup]

just gonna go through the bible with every group

this is how you play

please follow

cause its hard when all they do is dps and then sya bad tank and leaves

still i agree that i can do more to imporve ze group

beforehand

[left hatch]

sometimes thats what it takes

some dps are proactive about helping/ stunning/ interrupting

some you really need to beat it into them before they use any utility

[marsh stirrup]

but i mean what else thn vision major

would you rec

for m+

[left hatch]

for minors? CnS, Sphere, Lucid, Aegis

pick 2

with a strong strong pref for CnS

[marsh stirrup]

yeah it is consistent

but a tad lower than aegis

and lucid feels kinda weak at low ranks

which im dealing with cause FCKING timegates

[left hatch]

yah, the strong part of lucid comes from more rage for free IP's

which is kinda useless in low content

my personal fav combo is CnS/Sphere

but in low keys Aegis is really really good too cause you pull more

[marsh stirrup]

yeah yeah

well thanks alot for your insight

[left hatch]

anytime

[marsh stirrup]

very gratefull and will try and not fuck up ^^

[left hatch]

fucking up is a learning opportunity

playing well comes entirely down to preperation and practice

[sullen valve]

Guys did you hear
WowA Its pretty cool

[analog zinc]

hello i come back & see people talking about bdk being good at magic damage

reminder that right now, Monk is better at magic damage than BDK

[sick sentinel]

Both monk and BDK don't care about kind of damage they take

[analog zinc]

with the exception of extrordinarily high magic damage like fort shadow of zul, as DK's healing scales better into that high damage

[sick sentinel]

It's just damage

[analog zinc]

that's not true

stagger only works at like 30% effectiveness on magic damage

the reason monks are good right now is because of their giga overtuned healing

[sick sentinel]

They won't have overtuned healing tho

[analog zinc]

not next patch no

magic damage will hurt them then

[left hatch]

i think you misread, the conversation was how DK's WERENT any better at dealing with magic damage than other classes

despite the misconception that its their niche/forte

they're just reactionary and heal some of the damage up right after

and AMS is often a situationally worse CD than spell reflect the higher up you go

[analog zinc]

ams just kinda doggie

wow 200k shield every minute

so big

[left hatch]

^

[analog zinc]

its good for cheesing mechanics

[left hatch]

vs completely deleting mechanics and turning it into dps

on a 20s cd

[analog zinc]

25s

[left hatch]

i know which one id rather have

[analog zinc]

anyway, if you're looking for the best magic tank, reroll DH

either spec will do fine

[left hatch]

i don't think anyone was, the original person was just talking about struggling with magic damage since swapping off dk in low keys (10 range)

which is more just bad coordination/interrupts

[analog zinc]

was it the tides pull in TD

with the double casters

[left hatch]

yup

[analog zinc]

figures

[left hatch]

told him to have a druid spam root the tides

lul

[analog zinc]

on a war you should never pull both of those back to back

you should shroud the first pack

then for the second pack, pop EVERYTHING & nuke tides

otherwise ring/root tides

& los casters

or pull tides in & CC casters

[rustic tinsel]

That pack on fortified is brutal with the tides lmao

[analog zinc]

either way that's not a pull you should go into unprepared, a DK would get shredded by them just as well as everything else

i timed a 19 TD on the god week like a month ago, I just rooted tides & pulled everything into corner

[left hatch]

yah, i do'nt like the misconception that DK's are the go to for magic damage

[analog zinc]

on my prot pally

[left hatch]

no tank is good at it

blizz made magic a healer mechanic this xpac -_-

[analog zinc]

DH is

monks are god for magical melees

[rustic tinsel]

Tides meleeing magic damage while getting smashed by magic casts

[left hatch]

they're better than the others, but they still arn't good at it

rip the days of mark of ursol

[analog zinc]

rip legion tanks

[left hatch]

or actually having much agency over your life

[analog zinc]

i miss my 3 role system

Dps, Support, God King

now we have dps healer & tank :<

[rustic tinsel]

I’m curious how the 8.3 scaling is going to cause casts like that and water blasts to be

[left hatch]

dps, healer and slightly beefy low dps

[rustic tinsel]

Inb4 tanks get shredded in 10 keys while overgeared

[analog zinc]

no more tides

you can actually kick them

[rustic tinsel]

This is also true

[left hatch]

the scaling isn't gonna be near as bad as the diff s3 had

since its only the baseline being bumped up

[analog zinc]

i think itlll be worse

[rustic tinsel]

No more tides before Zancha pog

[analog zinc]

corruptions cause you to do giga more damage

[left hatch]

disagree, s3 not only had a change to baseline but they increased how much each key went up so scaling was more exponential

[analog zinc]

meaning every dungeon will basically end up being a survival test because your damage is so high that mechanics are the only thing that matters

[rustic tinsel]

It’s a shame that monk is getting shafted because I genuinely find the play style more entertaining than prot warrior

[left hatch]

thats a hot take

[analog zinc]

i just hate bfa monk

so boring

[left hatch]

i swapped off monk s2

because of how zzzz it was

[analog zinc]

legion monk was pretty fun

[left hatch]

prot is more... hectic? ig is the right word

[analog zinc]

prot has more plates spinning

[left hatch]

having a locked GCD is a big feelsbad for me

[analog zinc]

more stuff to track

i like the locked GCD

[rustic tinsel]

Tbh I think monk is more hectic but that’s probably Bc I main prot and find a different spec more entertaining than a main

[analog zinc]

it means Siege doesn't make me wanna kms

[left hatch]

once you get the hang of monk the rotation is brain dead

cause theres no real procs or anything

you get into a rhythim

[rustic tinsel]

Well yeah especially when you can afk and do 50k hps

[left hatch]

the other big turnoff to me was in Uldir, the difference in EHPS between a perfectly played monk that properly purged, and someone that just spammed purg w/e and facerolled

was minimal

[analog zinc]

27%

[rustic tinsel]

Tbh I don’t know how people play brew effectively without an unnessary amount of WA’s

[left hatch]

who wants to play a class where being a god at it means little compared to someone that mashes face on keyboard

[analog zinc]

is the difference between an uldir monk that didn't purify & one that purified perfectly

imagine a warrior using their mitigation perfectly vs one that only casts IP

the difference would be astronomical

[left hatch]

^ all about that agency

[analog zinc]

i like dh for that

[left hatch]

and monk isn't 'getting shafted'

they'll still be bis for raid

[analog zinc]

ye

[left hatch]

bumped down a bit in M+ meta but

by no means bad

[analog zinc]

top of low tiers in m+

top of top tier in raid along with dh

[rustic tinsel]

Not a huge raider, primarily do m+

[left hatch]

and tbh its not hte nerfs thats the big hit to monk in M+

its their utility losing its oomph with emmisaries

[rustic tinsel]

I’ll still main prot regardless, I just found it fun to mess around w brew once m+ pretty much died after the bursting tyran week

Difference change of pace from prot at least

[left hatch]

ill grant you alts are fun to mess around in

but i just can't after 8.3

[rustic tinsel]

WTB account wide essences

[left hatch]

don't even want to think about alts until shadowlands prepatch

its a REAL feelsbad to play a wheelchair class after prot/monk tho

tried my dk for all of 1 dungeon

noped the fuck out after that

[rustic tinsel]

That’s probably why I can’t bring myself to level a DH and play VDH or bear

Bear PepeLaugh

[left hatch]

VDH is ok, you bounce

its fun

[analog zinc]

i healed a bdk thru a 20 kr on my hpal offspec

[left hatch]

and Bear has rawr and instant mounting

[analog zinc]

1 hour 20 minute run

[left hatch]

big oof

[rustic tinsel]

I healed my friend on my resto Druid on like a brain dead 15 UR

Bear*

It was very stressful

[left hatch]

bear isn't that bad anymore

its just super fucking boring to play

[analog zinc]

thrash 3x swipe

repeat

[rustic tinsel]

4 button rotation Andy’s

[left hatch]

wtb RoTS

[analog zinc]

rots?

[left hatch]

rage of the sleeper

[analog zinc]

ooh

the dps / defensive cd

[left hatch]

their fun damage cd

[rustic tinsel]

Prot pally is gonna be some sleeper tank that comes out of nowhere

[left hatch]

that and the thrash pants + boomy shoulder combo

[analog zinc]

sleeper tank in m+?

[left hatch]

bring back rave bear

[analog zinc]

nah its pretty obvious they're gonna be solid

[left hatch]

^ holy shield is just gonna be consistent for raid

[analog zinc]

look i made this chart

[left hatch]

easy middle of the pack

[analog zinc]

nah FUCK holy shield

i hate that shit

that's one of the big reasons i'm rerolling off pally

[rustic tinsel]

“Arguably highest dps tank”

[left hatch]

in raid prog itll be the go to

for at least 1/2 the fights

[analog zinc]

it'll be go to any fight that does 20% or more magic dmg basically

although

some fights you'd prefer BS

[left hatch]

hivemind will probably be spinny hammers

cause of all the adds and their little AA's

[rustic tinsel]

I presume prot warrior is looking like the least attractive tank in raid again

[analog zinc]

it'll be low tier yea

[rustic tinsel]

FeelsBad

[analog zinc]

along with dks & bears

[left hatch]

i mean does it matter?

[analog zinc]

^

[left hatch]

unless you're top 100 itll be a comfortable clear

mained prot as raid tank in EP and didn't have 1 issue

[rustic tinsel]

Not with a guild but you know how pug meta sluts are

[analog zinc]

even so Limit are bringing a low tier tank to the w1 race

& i think some other guilds are doing the same

[left hatch]

what are they bringing? dk for el mass grips?

[analog zinc]

yea dk

it'll be good on a number of fights, namely vex & I think hivemind

[left hatch]

lul thats just gonna feed the pleb mentality of "DK IS BEST AT MAGIC"

[analog zinc]

but defensively they just suck

worst tank for phys damage & mid tier for magic

[rustic tinsel]

Who needs defense when you heal more than your healers 5head

[left hatch]

still have all the same issues they've had all expac

they just get shredded

by fucking anything

[analog zinc]

no dont you get it DKs scale well 🙂

with what you might ask?

[rustic tinsel]

I’m memeing

[analog zinc]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh

stamina 🙂

because now they dont get 1 shot!

[left hatch]

i loved that wowhead article

[rustic tinsel]

Just 2 shot

LOL

[left hatch]

that point by point went 'no u dumb'

in explaining why they became op later in the diff xpacs

[analog zinc]

is it just me

or does everyone hate bdks lol

every disc i'm in seems to meme on them

[left hatch]

i mained one in mop and start of legion

i used to love it

[analog zinc]

aka pally veng & war disc

[rustic tinsel]

I mean they’re pretty easy to meme

[left hatch]

but bear, monk and prot corrupted me

bears do too, but i think its just because they arn't bottom of the bully list

[analog zinc]

bears are easy to meme but everyone loves bear

bear SS tier

bis tank

SS Bear
S+ DK
S- Monk
F everything else

[rustic tinsel]

Replace monk with VDH and I’ll agree

[left hatch]

not huge into VDH

[analog zinc]

i love it

probably my fav tank

its just poorly designed talent wise

[left hatch]

i don't like the dichotomy of 'you either do awesome dmg and are paper' and 'you're immortal but do shit dps'

[analog zinc]

i dont really agree with that either

[rustic tinsel]

I’ve seen some Glut VDH do decent damage to be fair

[left hatch]

decent compared to Prot tho

[analog zinc]

i think the problem with DH is that

[left hatch]

or compared to a SB vdh

[rustic tinsel]

Well

That’s comparing apples to oranges

Compared to SB VDH

[analog zinc]

you're pretty much unkillable during your CDs, you just have to figure out how to survive until those CDs get back up

[left hatch]

which is why gluttony is so good

you just live in meta

[analog zinc]

if you can't survive long enough without CDs you're eventually gonna run out of CDs, that's when SpB falls off & DH falls off VERY fast defensively

for like 17s SpB DH is immortal

but go into 20s & you get fucked

[rustic tinsel]

I’ve seen VDH using glut do like 27k dps overall in some keys

Which compared to prot is a meme, but still decent for glut

[left hatch]

but you can't compare things in a bubble

at that point bears can pull more dps

[analog zinc]

yea because bear top dps tank

[left hatch]

cause glut's (at least should) be mass pulling

[analog zinc]

the idea behind gluttony build

is that you do less damage

but you enable your group to do more damage

[left hatch]

which other tanks don't really have to make that choice

[analog zinc]

its the same thing with tank trinkets

no but other tanks can't really pull as hard as a glut dh

wars are close

[left hatch]

true, but at that point the limiting factor isn't just tank survival

[analog zinc]

yeah

[left hatch]

its party wide interruptables

that are becoming the limiting factor for the pull

[rustic tinsel]

I think a lot of VDH read that glut was the move and continue to pull like they run SB and wonder why they aren’t doing well at all

[analog zinc]

in the 15-18 range of keys, i can pull whatever I want & surivve through everything but my group is gonna die around me

[rustic tinsel]

Because I’ve seen both

[left hatch]

so that advantage on glut doesn't really get to shine in BFA dungeon

becaue of how much shit there is to interrupt

[analog zinc]

^

[left hatch]

trash is now hard ):

[rustic tinsel]

Agreed

[analog zinc]

pulling big in bfa is hard

[rustic tinsel]

I think the insane amount of critical interrupts is one of the biggest flaws with BFA dungeons

[analog zinc]

imo the most important thing is to constantly make medium sized pulls

rather than make gigatafuck pulls

[left hatch]

or actually have a working understanding of the dungeon

and know what can be pulled together

and whats scurreh

which a surprising # of tanks just flat out neglect

even at the 15+ level

[rustic tinsel]

So all of the trash before aqua’sir in shrine

[left hatch]

you can do double pulls there

[analog zinc]

i mean there's so many mechanics below 15s which do zero damage

& you wont notice it

[analog swift]

I love that the trash actually matters makes dungeons and certain pills interesting

[analog zinc]

you're trained to not notice these mechanics

[left hatch]

mmmmm i agree but at the same time no

i like hard trash

but i think blizz went a bit too hard

cause now some dungeons are impossible without at least 2 melee interrupts

[analog zinc]

^

[rustic tinsel]

Yep

[analog zinc]

i feel like trash should remain as dangerous as it is

[left hatch]

if they want to keep this level of 'if you dont interrupt you die' they need to give everyone a 15s interrupt

baseline

[analog zinc]

but not be based around just gouging & interupting

[rustic tinsel]

Just less gimmicky interrupts would be ideal so you could bring a demo lock without questioning why you hate yourself

[analog zinc]

i LOVE chainpulling in motherlode & 2nd boss UR room

[left hatch]

^ have more interesting danger things. like the breath worms in UR

the maggots that puke

or interesting choices like mech jockeys

thats the trash that really shines imo

[rustic tinsel]

If mobs could be dangerous without an interrupt it would lead to more diverse pulling capabilities

[left hatch]

not the 'imma just spam cast shadow bolt volley 😄 '

[rustic tinsel]

Peacekeepers are the best example of that like you said

[analog zinc]

peacekeepers are amazing

mech jockeys, well, their grease gun hits too hard

[left hatch]

tbh a LOT of ML is super well designed

it just gets clusterfucky with some affixes

[analog zinc]

except the pure magic bosses 🙂

[left hatch]

even that is kinda interesting

[sick sentinel]

That's well designed

[analog zinc]

ML is fun as hell most weeks

[left hatch]

in how different it is

[analog zinc]

but FUCK bolstering

[rustic tinsel]

Yeah ML is a nope on bolstering

[left hatch]

i just hate bolstering in general

worst affix in terms of fun value to me

[analog zinc]

bolstering is mostly painful

[left hatch]

followed by bursting

[rustic tinsel]

Too many non-elites that cause giga bolsters early into pulls

[analog zinc]

but the most satisfying thing is when you kill a few mobs, bolster something, then chain that high health bolstered mob into a new pack, & everything dies together

[rustic tinsel]

I’d be more than ok if all non-elites just didn’t trigger on death affixes

[analog zinc]

i remember doing a bolstering ML & I just trotted this 10 stack bolstered Mech around for 3 packs lol

until it finally died

[sick sentinel]

Bolstering motherload is fine to be honest

Just need three ccs, so 1 rogue and 1 dh

[rustic tinsel]

LOL

[sick sentinel]

and you mass pull

3 groups that have all the small bois

slaughter them

and entire dungeon is free

:)

[rustic tinsel]

708 IQ

[warm plinth]

Yeah that's how we do it. Just CC all the mech jockeys, pull everything that isn't a mech jockey

ez game

[sick sentinel]

I'm not joking skyler

[rustic tinsel]

I’m aware you’re not

[sick sentinel]

That's literally how you pull bolstering motherload

[left hatch]

but requires a certain comp

like you NEED a dh or a monk

[sick sentinel]

Not really

no you really odnt

[left hatch]

for the long form cc

[warm plinth]

Why do you need a DH or monk

[sick sentinel]

ye you don't need them

[left hatch]

long form instant cc*

[sick sentinel]

ANY form off cc works

[warm plinth]

You just need CC

[sick sentinel]

even poly works

[rustic tinsel]

You’d need a rogue or DH for the out of combat cc wouldn’t you

[sick sentinel]

no

[analog zinc]

Last week I went in on a 16ml & did an 8 minute chainpull, you simply cant do that on bolster

[warm plinth]

No

[sick sentinel]

you go inside the room

in the middle

it'll outrage it

[rustic tinsel]

Ah

I see

[sick sentinel]

Last week was THEY easiest ML week basically

easiest for pugs atleast

[analog zinc]

I was surprised at how well pwar handled rixxa

It really felt way better than my ppal

[left hatch]

SR is op

[sick sentinel]

just go hearth out and play null and edicts

[rustic tinsel]

If you time your sr you’re fine

[sick sentinel]

with last stand

err never surrender*

[analog zinc]

IP is consistant, holy shield isnt

I once got stacked out on a 17ml tyr on my pally from rixxa :/

[rustic tinsel]

Can holy shield block that damage? I thought I remember reading somewhere it wasn’t blockable

[left hatch]

holy shield blocks magic

[rustic tinsel]

Well I know that

But I read it wasn’t blockable somewhere I thought

The magic damage wasn’t anyways

[left hatch]

which applies to normally unblockable fancy stuff like the magic AA's of tides and adds on radiance

[rustic tinsel]

Ah I see

[left hatch]

it can also block the pew pew AA's that last boss does too irrc

[analog zinc]

Holy shield doesnt block magical melees

[left hatch]

hmm i thought it did

mb

[analog zinc]

But it blocks spells that rixxa & 4th boss cast

[rustic tinsel]

Just not the melees then?

[analog zinc]

Yea for magic melees from like tides you want blessed hammer for auto attack DR

[left hatch]

ig since the melees don't count as spells

despite being magic

[rustic tinsel]

That’s a wonky caveat

[left hatch]

i mean we live in a world where Ppal gets the full Mastery Value of the AW trait during VOP

[rustic tinsel]

Because that would be incredibly strong against vinetwisters and those two bosses

[left hatch]

while BoM is reduced to ~1/3

solely because of how the trait is worded

[rustic tinsel]

That’s tilting and I try and forget that Everytime I hear it

[analog zinc]

Wait what

Vision doesnt proc full bastion?

[left hatch]

nope

[rustic tinsel]

No

[left hatch]

you get 1/3 of hte mastery and IP size

[rustic tinsel]

It gives like ~300-400 mastery or some shit

[left hatch]

because BoM is a modifyer to the Avatar buff itself

[analog zinc]

Damn thats retarded

[left hatch]

while the Master trait for ppal is an additional buff linked by an if/then type thing

[analog zinc]

I knew about ip but didnt realize the mastery was scuffed too

[rustic tinsel]

You essentially get a wheelchair BoM whenever vision procs

[analog zinc]

If vison procs during avatar what happens to your mastery buff?

[rustic tinsel]

I’m fairly certain it doesn’t override

[analog zinc]

Is there a 2nd weaker version added? Is the duration increased at full value?

[sick sentinel]

It's an extension of normal Avatar

[left hatch]

you keep full BoM size

[sick sentinel]

So it doesn't lose value

[left hatch]

and yah the time gets tacked on

but if you manually pop visions during a proc, it caps at 20s

:l

[sick sentinel]

I one time got like 4 vision procs at once

[analog zinc]

So vision proc during ava is an actual full BoM then?

[sick sentinel]

Yes

[rustic tinsel]

I mean we also live in a world where you can use avatar when you’re in a vision proc where Pallys can’t

[analog zinc]

4 procs? Thats it?

[sick sentinel]

I'm talking about

like

at the EXACT

[left hatch]

back to back

[sick sentinel]

same time

[analog zinc]

I once built 30s of wings

All off procs

Thats AT LEAST 5 procs

[sick sentinel]

Uh, that's not back to back tho

I'm talking on the tick

I got 4 of them each server tick

[analog zinc]

Oh

Yea i aint seen that befoee

Maybe double procs but not quad

[sick sentinel]

It was only one time tho

It was a full 1 minute ofavatar

[rustic tinsel]

Can VDH override their meta procs

[analog zinc]

Wym?

[rustic tinsel]

Like with vision

[analog zinc]

Kinda

[left hatch]

pally is the only one that can't overwrite manually

[rustic tinsel]

Since you can’t use wings when you get a proc

Ah

I see

That’s weird

[sick sentinel]

You can't use avatar when youget a proc also

or you'll lose all of it

[left hatch]

yes you can

[rustic tinsel]

Not true

[left hatch]

you CAN you shouldn't

[analog zinc]

Casting meta during a proc increases the duration

[left hatch]

ppal you literally can't push the button

it wo'nt let you

[sick sentinel]

ah

[rustic tinsel]

Yeah that’s what I meant

[analog zinc]

Wym morrison? How do you lose the proc?

[left hatch]

it caps the duration at 20s

if you manual cast

[analog zinc]

Tbh tho theres no reason to meta during meta proc

[rustic tinsel]

Avatar has a ceiling to how it lasts

[analog zinc]

Oh thats oofera

[left hatch]

ehhhh yes and no

if a proc happens the second you manaul cast

itll go above 20s

[rustic tinsel]

I just meant like if there was a similar situation like Pallys had

[analog zinc]

I've seen it proc right after casting & gone over 20

[rustic tinsel]

I wanted to know if they can’t actually press their button

[analog zinc]

Paladin is te only class where you physically cant press the button

[rustic tinsel]

Ye

I was just wondering

[analog zinc]

Its really fucking cancer because it desyncs your CDs

[rustic tinsel]

That’s obnoxious

[left hatch]

thats VoP

[rustic tinsel]

I wonder why they chose that specifically for Pallys and nobody else

Blizzard is smol indie company

[distant crystal]

because wings is harder to see for pallys than most of the other cds that vop procs

Kap

[left hatch]

can never tell if its my wings, or that Wration trinket that isn't even out yet

confuses me erry time

[rustic tinsel]

Imagine not growing twice the size when your vision procs

Imagine having wings instead of becoming a giant

[analog zinc]

Wait does the wrathion trinket give you a cool effect?

[left hatch]

yessir

its similar to the warlock demon wings effect

but you also levitate

[tawdry prawn]

Any good prot streams I. An learn from?

[left hatch]

go to Raider.io and open up the top list

if they're streaming theres a red dot next to their name

just go down the rankings till you find someone

[warm plinth]

Just don't learn their essences or azerite traits without checking here first

🙃

[left hatch]

and understand that certain things they do arn't meta and theres context to it

that likely isn't applicable or repeatable in 99% of situations

already enough ppl thinking luci major is good -_-

[mental scarab]

I tried lucid Mayor in 19+ keys

And tbh the healing is good and the dubbel avatar is fun on trash🤴🏻

[chilly brook]

I don't think anyone would say lucid isn't good

[left hatch]

it's not bad, its situational

[chilly brook]

But the use case of it over VoP for most cases is very small

[mental scarab]

Helps on big pulls🤓

[left hatch]

^ thats the bad part, is people seeing someone like Naowh use it and thinking its a set and forget go to

[chilly brook]

Yes

It's like using incarn for bear

It's a 2 minute CD that influences how you run the dungeon

[left hatch]

if you don't play around it and know exactly how/why you need it, its majorly inferior to VoP , or even CnS

[chilly brook]

If you're not tailoring your dungeon route and pulls around it it's a worse trait in every way

[left hatch]

so unless yo'ure the 1% who understands and does that, its a bad major

[ionic fern]

I think you guys are missing the other part of the Lucid argument.
Yes there's the "Tailoring pulls around it" but there's also the "not wasting any rage to get the maximum out of Anger Management". This is the tricky part for most people due to the unexpectedly high Rage income. DS will literally pretty much give you a full Rage bar so it's really-really easy to waste a lot of rage during Lucid.

[warm plinth]

I'll tailor my pulls around you Mwahi

[ionic fern]

[warm plinth]

Oh hey a new emoji

[ionic fern]

👀

[warm plinth]

[ionic fern]

Treat it carefully or Vel will remove it. 😦

[warm plinth]

I can't use it anyway because it feels like I'm swatting Lincoln 😦

[ionic fern]

[strong forum]

Me when ghash

[chilly brook]

@ionic fern imo that's part of tailoring your pulls around it

[strong forum]

now im sad

[ionic fern]

👀

[sweet summit]

A true alpha gamer

[strong forum]

he picked CR over BoM on sea brawlers greathelm

[ionic fern]

Who even picks traits, smh.

[strong forum]

ye traits are worthless on tanks

i learned from BDKs

[ionic fern]

@chilly brook sure, it can be but since we're discussing it in a public channel it's better to specify.

[brittle owl]

traits are a crutch fir bad gamers

[chilly brook]

True

[brittle owl]

using talents also means you're a beta incel that prob still lives in a basement

[strong forum]

the best part is

he was at tank dummy

he had 50% HP at 12 stacks already

and now prolly goes parading that prot war sucks

[brittle owl]

did you check

if he was stacking leech

[strong forum]

na but CR and DC

🙃

2x CR 2x DC when he had kraken + sea brawler

[ionic fern]

Which reminds me..i finally got my 3 pieces together yesterday Kraken/Abyssal/Ashvane's.

[strong forum]

pog

lemme do some magic

and buy abyssal

1 week before patch

[ionic fern]

👌

[brittle owl]

don't let your memes be dreams kids

[gaunt dawn]

Dark memes dont melt steel beams

[sick sentinel]

I woke up from my slumber when my leech sense was tingling

[ionic fern]

[strong forum]

have you heard, leech corruption stacking?

[sick sentinel]

Why do i feel like the knew emote may be targeting specific people

[ionic fern]

👀

[strong forum]

time to roll for abyssal

calling it

[sick sentinel]

That’s a mighty fine 200g you have there

[strong forum]

fuck

3rd or 4th raptor king helmet

[ionic fern]

Feels bad.

[strong forum]

im not even parsing anymore so its double useless

[sick sentinel]

Give me the soul spun casque

[strong forum]

have that too

like 2-3 times

[sick sentinel]

GIMME

For my PARSE

[sick sentinel]

I was lucky enough to get 🐐 azerite with 4 lottery rolls to begin the season

[strong forum]

have cthraxxi like 4 times too

to make you feel better

[sick sentinel]

Give me the parse pieces

I deserve them

[ionic fern]

Take them.

[sick sentinel]

I have played the class correctly for TOO LONG

[strong forum]

just get em then

like..

tfw all helmets ive ever gotten from vendor are raptor king and soulspun

now that i think about it

[sick sentinel]

I have gotten abyssal for three rolls in a row not to make you feel worse

[strong forum]

pog

[sick sentinel]

When all I want is rezans fury

[ionic fern]

Making me wanna parse in raids again. 😦

[brittle owl]

just get good

and get the loot

[strong forum]

i had my 99s with 0 benthics, havent seen EP in 3+ months, will focus on meme+ next season, im happy in life

[sick sentinel]

I am not happy

Wiped at 3% on zaqul when I had rngesus on my side and was going for big parse

[strong forum]

zaq logs dont matter

thankfully

nor does orgo

[sick sentinel]

Excuse me

The bosses where I get to afk and clap MATTER

[ionic fern]

Just die on purpose when you're about to get a bad parse causing a wipe.

Smh.

See, this time i'm using this on myself.

[strong forum]

so progressive

[distant crystal]

just go 2x loyal

and have a dedicated suicide shaman

[sick sentinel]

Or

Run a raid of entirely shaman

[ionic fern]

AND A RET PALADIN.

[sick sentinel]

And kill the boss in 2.4 seconds with all the mastery

[distant crystal]

honestly did a reclear with a dedicated suicide shaman and everybody running 2+ loyal

full of 99/100's

he would facepull the boss and die, then ankh, and die again later for another shot

loyal death buff during opener is p sweet

[ionic fern]

Poor WindWalkers.

Not even the best spec for damage anymore.

[strong forum]

imagine having a raid peak at 4.5mil dps

[distant crystal]

lol

[smoky shoal]

hello

[ionic fern]

Wrong use.
We only use it to smack bad/wrong/stupid things.

[smoky shoal]

@ionic fern Check the log, Leviathan's lure 6th source of damage KEKW

Tank trinket

[ionic fern]

Jeah, i checked it.

😂

[smoky shoal]

👌

Pumps is a beast

[sick sentinel]

Is pumps a beast or are ww monks pathetic

Or a combination

[distant crystal]

yes

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[sick sentinel]

Yes?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[distant crystal]

Si.

[smoky shoal]

Yes.

[sick sentinel]

Yes!

[ionic fern]

[ripe mason]

Ja.

[sick sentinel]

How do I make a mythic ready dps alt in 4 days

[ripe mason]

A lot of m+

[sick sentinel]

Do you think the mage discord will accept me

[ripe mason]

What do you mean?

[sick sentinel]

You likely haven’t heard from me enough to effectively answer that question

[brittle owl]

@distant crystal it wasn't just 1 dedicated suicide shaman

they stacked loyal on average 8 times

😂

on their behemoth kill they had 10 stacks by the end

they had like 4 shamans doing ankh rez and totem rez in quick succesion

[soft kindle]

@oblique garnet I heard ms is not good for prot, comment?

[ionic fern]

[soft kindle]

wait he can mute me

[ionic fern]

Yes, yes he can. Anyone non yellow can mute you.

👀

[oblique garnet]

@soft kindle 🙂

[onyx vessel]

Late is my dad

[ionic fern]

Well that's a interesting turn of events.

[oblique garnet]

[urban briar]

guyz if i link a zim can u tell me if i did it right or not for protection?

gearing im cluelezz

or will it come out az 10000 wordz and zpam the zcreen

[ionic fern]

There's hardly anything you can mess up with sims if you just go to raidbots.com -> Quick Sim -> insert realm/char name and run it.

[azure grove]

Wow is replacing s with z the new thing these days? ^^

Just keep in mind that you only sim dps

[urban briar]

yea i just dunno how to sim warrior

[left hatch]

might be someone that english isn't first language and uses a diff langauge keyboard on their phone dude

for instance German phone keyboard hides the Y because they almost never use it

[ionic fern]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/quick

Enter your realm/char name.

Scroll down and press "Run quick sim".

[urban briar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rVygKVHaViKxdeHLN7cgbS

[ionic fern]

There you go. You just simmed yourself.

[urban briar]

but does it make sence out of all my gear?

[left hatch]

if yo'ure interested in simming id get diff trinkets

[urban briar]

yea i want to hit the big parses and do big mythic+

[left hatch]

and also Crystaline Carapace on your chest, I'd replace it with Blood Syphon

CC is kinda meh

also might just be personal pref, but i really like Gemhide over Vampiric Speed

and on shoulders id take heed my call over gutripper

Gutripper sims way higher than its actual worth (doubly so on tanks)

because it assumes every attack is from behind and benefits from the bonus

which is basically never the case as a tank

Swap your weapon enchant from quick navigation to Force Multiplyer

swap 2 of your gems to be the STR ones

[urban briar]

switching azerite now

[left hatch]

can't really fix this RN but having 2 instances of DC isn't ideal

[ionic fern]

I think you are mixing Gutripper up with Dagger in the Back

[left hatch]

oh you rite i totally am

[urban briar]

so stay with gutripper or still switch?

[left hatch]

mmm id sim it, just make sure to pick both options so you can compare

if yo'ure serious about Raid Parsing you'll wanna run CoF Major, VoP/Null minors

and for M+ you'll want Vop Major, CnS (r3), Sphere (r2+), aegis or lucid

[ionic fern]

Pretty sure CnS is higher than VoP ST sim wise.

[left hatch]

he only has r2 rn tho :/

but yah im inclined to aggree

at least on fights where theres not enough downtime for it to fall off

cough wrathion cough

[ionic fern]

If you are simming top gear you can select various essences/traits/gear/talents and it'll compare them all.

[urban briar]

gutripper comes up better st and heed better aoe

[left hatch]

i tend to pick the aoe option in that case unless i have multiple pieces

cause M+ is more challenging and fun to me than raid

so i focus more resources into it

[urban briar]

i agree

but 1 hand washes the other

[left hatch]

^ why focusing on M+ traits isn't bad

because the BiS trait there (BoM_

is the 2nd best in raid (:

whereas the BiS raid trait (BfI) drops off to be 3rd/4th

[urban briar]

how do u get all the diffrent options cause u dont wanna sim 1 slot at a time right?

[left hatch]

Top gear, select multiple boxes on each AZ piece

[oblique garnet]

Dont think CnS is higher than VoP with 3x BoM tho

[woven venture]

Raidbots says I should be able to do 22k dps, but on a target dummy I only do like 14k. Guess I'm missing 4 stacks of into the fray, but that doesn't seem like it should be worth 8k dps. I guess the sim expects you to get bloodlust and what not too. I can't help but feel like my boss dps isn't as good as it should be except on fights with adds I get to clap.

[junior igloo]

Heroism, flask, potions, all raid buffs, monk debuff on target, it adds up.

I'm not saying that your rotation is perfect, but dummy is not a good indicator by itself

[left hatch]

a big thing ppl mess up in ST rotation is holding onto the S2 mentality that TC>SS during avatar

this is no longer the case

pre-UF nerf TC would do more damage in the avatar window to one target

and a lot of ppl still fall into the 'TC every other gcd' lull

but itll cost you ST dps if yo'ure getting good resets on SS

a loss thats exacerbated the more instances of BFI you have

and from experience it can be a bitch to fight that muscle memory impulse to clap away

[azure grove]

Sound like me lol

[sullen valve]

Hello it is me again
WowAnal man
It's great everyone try wowAnal

[slow canyon]

is that an <@&257983573498265600> ?

[sick sentinel]

you might want to write analyzer and not anal ^^

[blazing dune]

@sullen valve Maybe chill it with the anal jokes.

Know your target audience and all that :p

[sullen valve]

:p

I only started using wowA's other name when y'all started joking about it

But

[blazing dune]

Well, unfortunately not everyone is going to get that because it's quite a big server

[sullen valve]

I'll chill

Ye I get that

We good

[slow canyon]

like me 🤔

[oblique garnet]

[blazing dune]

It's aight :D Rather have too many pings than too little :)

[sullen valve]

Time to spam ping vel 👀

[woven venture]

On single target I just try to Avatar without overwriting VoP procs, then SS>TC>revenge with proc, devastate only when those aren't available, manual revenge only if I'm going to cap rage after SB/IP.

I think maybe it's just a matter of not keeping everything on CD as well as I could.

[sullen valve]

Heads up. If you proc vop during avatar it just extends Avatar and you don't lose any uptime on avatar

[left hatch]

also that with booming voice demo shout has top prio

don't forget to always be using that

[sick sentinel]

Always

YELL

[left hatch]

channel your inner Karen

demand to see each and every mobs manager

[tame garden]

😂

[inland mesa]

is the boe shield really the best one in the instance? ugh

[left hatch]

?

it has the same stats as the ilgynoth one, just less verse heavy

[inland mesa]

next raid, only shows a shield drop from ily'gnoth that's haste vers vers heavy, then boe is haste vers haste heavy

[left hatch]

yah... 40 haste instead of 40 verse isn't the end of the world

[inland mesa]

I guess with magic damage if we're comfy with haste threshold we can stack vers instead

[left hatch]

its a really really really minisclue difference

[inland mesa]

since there's 5 bosses that are going to truck us

gotta hope to snipe a cheap boe shield then from mythic XD

[left hatch]

^ which is good tbh

cause you can hopefully get it really early

and itll just be BIS till end of xpac

[exotic spoke]

I’ll sell you one for gold cap Chewtoy

[inland mesa]

D:

[exotic spoke]

Actually not true Morrison. Could get a better one from m+

[inland mesa]

I gotta farm my bruto money yet, and spider, and all the things

[exotic spoke]

End of week cache

[left hatch]

true

[exotic spoke]

Haste crit for them m+

[inland mesa]

the lack of gear that's crit haste in raid makes me sad

[left hatch]

naw, get one with echoes corruption ❤️

or haste proc

way more valuable than what stats are one it

[inland mesa]

gloves pants? that's it 😦

[exotic spoke]

Could be worse

[left hatch]

care about corruption>caring about stats on it

[exotic spoke]

Demon hunters loot from m+ is better than raid

[left hatch]

thatll be WAY more impactful than how many pieces you have that are haste/crit

[exotic spoke]

Even at 10 ilvls lower

[warm plinth]

Yeah apparently I could be completely absent from the raid for the first 8 bosses and wouldn't even notice

[exotic spoke]

Yup

[copper bison]

what will be in weekly m+ chest from this weeks keys done

[exotic spoke]

Think it’s 7, but it could be 8

[left hatch]

next week is still s3 rewards

[warm plinth]

The same thing that's in your weekly chest now

[exotic spoke]

What they said

[left hatch]

on 21st its still s3 reward but keys will drop

[warm plinth]

Yep

[left hatch]

week of 21st cap is at a 6, end of week cap will be 15

[warm plinth]

21st is where you want to try for a 15 if you can get it

[inland mesa]

really we don't need anything until later bosses? 😢

[copper bison]

when is residuum reset

[warm plinth]

With the patch

[left hatch]

14th

[copper bison]

next week or wee kafter

[left hatch]

i mean the wrathion trinket seems really nice

and Ra'Den's are interesting

[warm plinth]

You're interesting

[copper bison]

so this weeks m+ will give you "new" residuum that can keep

[inland mesa]

wait, heroic nya'lotha is only 460 gear? I thought it was 465...so M+ 15 farm is better than heroic gear?

[left hatch]

thanks 😊

[warm plinth]

No

[left hatch]

M+ 15 farm is 5 ilvls higher

[warm plinth]

This week's M+ will give you the same TR you're getting right now from your weekly cache

[left hatch]

but you will keep it

when you open your chest next week

[warm plinth]

I highly doubt it

[copper bison]

this is what i mean

[warm plinth]

The new season hasn't started yet on Tuesday

[copper bison]

it will be reset and then you loot chest and keep it

[left hatch]

hmmm thats a fair point

[copper bison]

if this happens its worth to run some keys