but those are the reasons
#protection
strong forum
exotic rapids
understood thank you for the explanation
distant crystal
and think of how many IP's you could spam
I imagine you might survive fortified zul with lucid major
strong forum
the leech wont do shit there
for example
and its only 15seconds too, so idk if its any worth there
on high fort
analog swift
maybe to fill in gaps?
demo, spell reflect, lucid, shield wall etc.
also does anybody use zT aoe stops
or rather this one https://wago.io/75BB3Bnl3
strong forum
yes i use ZenTracker
potent anvil
The leech ends up being a bit of overhealing most of the time, unless you planning on the whole room of mobs type pull. The fact that you can upkeep IP and feeding into anger management is what makes it a strong CD. Although its not necessary to use as your major for most keys.
analog swift
i'm not sure why intimidating shout isn't showing up as an aoe soft cc and/or even pickable
can't even add it
strong forum
🤷♂️
distant crystal
just sounds like a deficiency of that particular aura
drop a comment on its wago page, author might fix it
warm plinth
I'll drop a comment on your wago page
warm plinth
Will too
sweet summit
speaking of zen tracker, im having some issues with it displaying. it cant seem to work even tho i have the required addon, anyone know what up with that?
sweet summit
yea
warm plinth
New problem? Or you just downloaded it?
warm plinth
Do you have the back end WA that goes with it?
sweet summit
i have zentracker main
distant crystal
btw some just got this in my warr's run
distant crystal
warm plinth
Have you checked the load conditions to make sure they aren't fucked?
sweet summit
set them on load 5 man dungeon, but still doesnt show :(
warm plinth
Yeah, this one
chilly brook
I wish I had that kinda luck
warm plinth
warm plinth
Garbage
distant crystal
i have 435 no sock :*(
warm plinth
Might as well use sporepods
distant crystal
maybe i will
warm plinth
@sweet summit https://wago.io/EhARpYudu
sweet summit
that might be it actually, thank you so much ♥️
distant crystal
I've had ZenTracker backend wa installed for like
months
without LibGroupInspecT or the frontend installed
now i'm all set too ❤️
warm plinth
lul
warm plinth
Oh hey, my DH has meta
distant crystal
when i see multiple ppl with big dick dps ready
strong forum
only display whats necessary
analog swift
that's what your mom said
warm plinth
I use Nnogga's for CDs and ZT for interrupts
Nnogga's is more digestible for CDs imo.
analog swift
yeah
warm plinth
No
analog swift
i've played arund the same as well
strong forum
im using nnoggas too
distant crystal
well i just hid all my own
warm plinth
ZT uses bars, Nnogga's is icons
strong forum
not that bar shit
analog swift
i don't like the ZT interrupts because I like when the ones on cd go to the bottom
distant crystal
we'll see how crazy it looks next key i do
strong forum
ye fuck bars
warm plinth
But it uses the same back end WA
analog swift
bar shit is wack af
you can convert to icons easily
but then it just staacks vertically
who the fuck needs bars tho fr
warm plinth
I like bars for interrupts
distant crystal
is NNoggas a frontend for ZT?
warm plinth
But it would be overwhelming for CDs
distant crystal
or completely separate
analog swift
yeah i really use exorcis for cds
warm plinth
Uh, you could say it is I guess? You still need ZT Main and LibGroupInspecT
analog swift
bars for interrupts i think is good
as long as they move becaues htat's easier to visualize
for some reason
analog swift
not sure why bars for interrupts are easier
i guess cuz you have to see who's is on cd and whose isn't
strong forum
if bar moving
analog swift
but i jsut use M+ interrupt
strong forum
then on CD
done
warm plinth
Yeah it's a little quicker to see it on a bar
strong forum
its easier to obtain the information / faster
strong forum
you can spot moving targets easier than non moving
analog swift
but it got to annoying with raid
yeah that makes sense
esp w/ the M+ tracker where it moves so you can quickly see who is on top
so i'm thining jsut converting something tight like the aoe stops
adding externals into that
and then doing just a few offensive cds
strong forum
you can just turn ZT off in raid
analog swift
which next question what offensive cds do you guys add?
strong forum
you know
analog swift
"i was using exorcis
which is pretty customizable for cds"
strong forum
ah
analog swift
too fast
frosty spindle
Anyone have the Macro for targeting Explo Orbs.
warm plinth
That's not possible
They're not targetable with macros; otherwise the affix would be brainless.
loud kestrel
hello
new in the server
prot warrior from ragnaros
hope you're having a good one!
ionic fern
Welcome. :)
loud kestrel
tyty
guys
do you have any tips for my warrior
need help finding a weapon for my toon
ionic fern
Safest bets would be world quests and m0/m+. :)
Or if you have any gold then you can also buy one from the auction house.
mental scarab
Pvp free 410 wep @loud kestrel
loud kestrel
where do i get it?
distant crystal
oh boy
loud kestrel
i imagine from the ovo vendor
distant crystal
just joined korrak's revenge with zentracker
loud kestrel
but how?
distant crystal
my comp is gonna melt
grand spruce
is there anyway of knowing if youre screwing up royally when tanking? other than being dead?
mental scarab
Conq cap @loud kestrel
distant crystal
check blocked hit % @grand spruce
if you have a lot of melees that aren't getting blocked you're prob doing something wrong
brittle owl
happy new year from the future <3
mental scarab
Or the trash lives ro long 🤓
grand spruce
would that be shown in logs or details?
distant crystal
you can see it in details under damage taken
ionic fern
Yes. @grand spruce check damage taken and then filter by SB for example.
ionic fern
Happy new year guys btw. Hope you all the best. 🎉
analog zinc
how do you hide some CDs with that addon?
brittle owl
@ionic fern 🥳
distant crystal
@analog zinc ZenTracker?
analog zinc
yea
distant crystal
custom options tabs
analog zinc
if i can remove stuff, can I add stuff too?
distant crystal
you can select/deselect by category or specific spells
analog zinc
i want it to track meta
distant crystal
don't think you can add
analog zinc
damn :/
analog zinc
there's no veng meta
distant crystal
ah
analog zinc
who cares about havoc
next plover
Is c&s worth it at rank 1 or 2? Don't really pvp so wondering if its worth it to grab it or not considering r3 is basically unlikely to happen...
analog zinc
nope
distant crystal
👌
chilly brook
@next plover you can get rank 3 without much pvp
If you get to 1400 you can just open boxes tbh from invasions
And 1400 is ez
You can literally pve your way to conquest cap each week for 5 weeks unless you want to hit 1600 to make it a 3 week grind instead
And I think rank 2 is fine
grand spruce
think i found my issue, too much ip and not quite enough sb. and too much revenge spamming
chilly brook
Sounds about right
I almost never press revenge outside of procs tbh
Unless I'm just parsing
Then I say let the healers deal with it all
grand spruce
yeah, im going to move revenge from where it is now. its like reflex action
marsh silo
how bad is rezan on high tyrannical
grim skiff
thanks, was thinking rezan/MRB but someone told me eddicts is very strong so wasn't sure
strong forum
a high ilvl edict is very strong yes
a 450 edict starts with 80k absorb
but a 405 has barely 30k absorb or some shit
making it very much useless
analog zinc
wow that sucks
grim skiff
405 eddicts is 39k - 400s of consistent play to get it to 78k / 40s
analog swift
been using a 435 edict from week one
grim skiff
still less than 212k / 1.5 min
analog swift
:/
grim skiff
how much is 435 edicts @analog swift
true plover
Anyone else just DC from WoW?
distant crystal
sorta
rich narwhal
Nope. Still on the timeless isle.
analog swift
fuck if i know
grand spruce
hmmm. got a 430 block with a socket. has potential
grim skiff
How many weeks of saving TR is there left? 1 or 2? before we lose it to gold? debating saving for 440 random or buying 3 430's
mortal brook
all TR is getting converted to silver
grim skiff
yeah, I need to use before that happens
mortal brook
prob season 4 week 1 so 21st?
grim skiff
just wondering if i get 1 or 2 weeks and if its worth buying a 440 random or bunhc of 430
grim skiff
yeah if it happens on 14th i wont get a 2nd week
grim skiff
Online I found start of s4 which I think is jan14
tame garden
s4 starts jan 21
left hatch
^ comes out the week raid drops consistently
first week of patch is like a 'post-season'
as you fondly remember how much fun void week beguiling is :3
grim skiff
Thanks so get a couple of weeks of TR to obtain.. ty ty
cyan prism
so jw, have recently moved to tanking m+ & a lot of the warriors have swapped to lucid as main essence is this new or just affix specific ? because a friend told me usually you want to go with VoP
grim skiff
Would that only be for the leech? Don’t ever find a situation where I am rage starved every 2 mins to make that better than VoP
cyan prism
well I was jjust asking, maybe its the leech or maybe its only during fort
warm plinth
People are swapping to lucid major because they saw Naowh use it for a very specific reason on very high keys (namely, to have avatar up back to back for very large pulls). It’s not something most people are running. Everyone in here is still using vision major the vast majority of the time.
cyan prism
cool, thanks !! may you have a blessed year !
warm plinth
You too
grim skiff
What you mean have it lucid popped in coordination with avatar for two large packs?
sharp night
when you use the major you get a huge influx of rage so you can spam IP more and reduce the cd of ava significantly so it's up immediately again for the next pack
warm plinth
You can have Avatar up for 40 seconds straight with Lucid because it doubles your rage regeneration (which means more rage goes into Anger Management, which means Avatar CD is shortened) so you get the extra mastery from Bastion for that solid 40 seconds which provides a ton of crit Block chance. Hence making you incredibly tanky for a large pack.
It’s not for two large packs. It’s for one very big one.
warm plinth
Idk. I don’t watch his stream. I’m sure he uses it for multiple big pulls per dungeon since if you’re not using the essence it’s not useful.
analog swift
tbh doesn't even sound dthat good
like do you really need insane crit block for 40 seconds? when block itself is so strong
warm plinth
Depends what you pull I suppose.
sharp night
crit block is significantly stronger than regular block depending on your block value it can be something like 4x less damage taken
astral crystal
@lusty grotto happy new year cabron
tropic thistle
best race for prot warrior alliance?
warm plinth
Doesn't matter. Dwarf/DID or Nelf for M+ utility. Other than that it's irrelevant
tropic thistle
roger ty
urban briar
what minor'z do u recommend uzing?
warm plinth
Sphere/C&S/Lucid
analog swift
null is pretty good in plenty of dungeons
temple and waycrest definitely
does like 1.5K dps at the end of the dungeon
underrot is like 800-1000~ and shrine it's like 1-1.5K~
aegis also beats CnS at 4+ targets which should be every pull
warm plinth
How does aegis beat C&S at 4 targets? Aegis is 280 vers at 4 targets. C&S is 440 vers
warm plinth
Yeah that's what I'm thinking
sharp night
you need 7 targets or be below 35% for aegis to come out ahead, but remember that c&s stacks stay while aegis is dynamic so as soon as a mob dies you also lose that vers
realistically you need ~8 targets per pull for aegis to be better
exotic spoke
Vision of Nzoth full clear on the fourth run of the week. Can't wait for it to be live
urban briar
conflict and ztrife better than aegiz?
and my zimz are zaying that crit iz better to zocket with iz that okay or do i loze d anywhere
warm plinth
What kind of sim are you running?
And are you asking for raids or M+ btw, because that could be relevant
warm plinth
In raids, go with what sims better. How many sockets do you have?
warm plinth
Uh, there's not a super reliable sim for M+. I'd probably do multiple target patchwerk and HAC sims and see what it comes up with. If one says crit and one says haste, I go with haste.
analog swift
@warm plinth lemme check rank 3s real quick
wait i think i'm disabled
it's 6 targetrs
was thinking when i had rank 2 null
rank2 cns*
i think at 6 it's slightly behind but it's instant so arguably more uptime on full stacks, arguably
warm plinth
6 targets is 420 vers to C&S's 440
analog swift
yeah you're right
but because it's instant maybe more verse in total depending on how you're doing the key
so probably best minors we're looking at if we're going full nerd with it are CnS, then probable sphere, aegis if you're consistently fighting 6+ targets (gives more verse than haste at 5 targets but haste is so good), in something liek motherlode or waycrest minor where the pulls are big, then null for magic heavy dungeons
so probably only dungeon you wouldn't run cns minor would be waycrest running aegis+null, everything else i'd think would be cns then null (for like the 3 magic dungeons), aegis for giga pulls, then sphere eh?
warm plinth
Well remember that on bosses and shit you basically get nothing from vers
So that's a huge amount of value lost
analog swift
yeah
warm plinth
from aegis*
analog swift
so maybe just on fort
then again it's probably worth in ml
pulls are often really big there
sharp night
if you aren't at 8 stacks on cns always then you have too much downtime
and remember that aegis value drops as soon as mobs die so unless you're chaining mobs constantly which is impossible on some affixes it's not gonna give you 6 stacks all the time
sick sentinel
Well not with that attitude
fringe folio
It’s 2020, everything is possible!
fringe folio
2020 isn’t over yet ...
tame garden
undone sun
🎉
mossy crater
Is swirling sands worth losing a 3rd bom ? iirc I'm at 2100 or so mastery with avatar active with x2 bom
distant crystal
maybe for pure dmg
sim it
bom gives you a good bit of AP exactly when you want it tho
plus block
marsh silo
for high keys would you guys use 420 urchin with socket over 430 rezans or block?
tribal knot
How good is vial of animated blood for us? Just got a 445 one?
jade yarrow
Can I trust written guide on wowhead or icy veins?
undone sun
yes, preferably iv
remote dawn
what trinket ? 455 rezan 430 urchin 430 edict
left hatch
rezan and... id probably go for edict
livid kite
@remote dawn rezan and edict (grats on the rezan btw)
remote dawn
okay nice and ty 🙂
covert sentinel
is C&S major the thing now?
random hill
Anyone has an idea how the new ess will affect prot?
left hatch
CnS major is something you need to play around, some super high level people are taking it for the double verse thats consistently procced by the root effect, but inmost cases Visions is easier to use and will serve you better
as for the new essences* and ignoring the corruption resistance aspect
Str of the Warden Major: seems like something you'd only pick if you were super undergeared and needed an aoe taunt on skittish, the 50% dmg on such a long cd would probably only overtake VoP or CnS output if you played around it and made massive pulls to make use from it, and even then its only a 6s duration
Warden Minor: seems pretty awful, the way the healing store works means a lot of it will be wasted on pull and turn into overhealing, and 3% extra stam is super lackluster
Touch of Everlasting Major: If you need a cheat death for a hard progression fight i guess? as with DK and DH tho cheat death things arn't generally used once you're used to the fight, because the other options generally make you 'tankier' with correct play anyway and you won't need the cheat death
random hill
@left hatch i see. Ty! And happy new years
left hatch
ToE Minor: if you fall below X , Y happens procs generally arn't phenomenal, and avoidance is only super op in very specific circumstances, the ACtive mitigation portion is nothing to write home about since we already have very high uptime of SB coupled with LS so thisll also be a weaker choice than our current go-tos
And then formless void, it MIGHT see use as a major in raid to steal someones ClF but on a 30% increased cd and it not replicating the cd reduction part of it.... i really doubt it
the minor might have some promise if your raid is hyper coordinated nad staggering Essences, or you play around it in dungeons, but wihtout playing around it the existing will be better (and tbh even with playing around it the existing stat ones might be better)
as far as the corruption res goes on them, it MIGHT be worth to run 1 in the extra slot if it allows you another good corruption piece and keeps you below a yikes breakpoint, but rn its only 10 resistance that doesn't increase with essence rank or neck lvl sooooo eh i doubt those situations will happen super often or that missing that breakpoint is worth losing out on something juicy like Sphere
Thanks for coming to my ted talk and Happy new Years
covert sentinel
Thank @left hatch that was indeed very helpful. And Lucid Dream major? seen a lot of top warriors havin it equipped
left hatch
for Lucid major a lot of ppl saw Naowh use it on his stream a handful of times and now think its the go to in every circumstance (see also leech meme). The reason he used it was to make monstrous pulls and use the crazy rage gen to pop avatar back to back by spamming IP
don't attempt this at home lol VoP is still the meta pick in like 99% of cases (M+wise at least)
full crane
left hatch
2nd
livid kite
Not sure where to ask, so feel free to yell if I'm doing this wrong. Here goes.
I have been going back and forth between monk and warrior for months. I mainly heal on monk, but I pug everything and tanks are in short supply. Hence, tanking from 8.3 onwards. Also not going to have an alt this patch.
So, who in here can help me pick between protwar and brm? So many pros on boths both sides. Any input welcome (eapecially if you play both classes/specs). Ty.
amber surge
i just checked and saw a lot of people use lucid memes major for dungeons... what do they spend their rage on? am i underestimating IP in >20s?
oblique garnet
@amber surge They are overcaping ip and "wasting" rage on it but they are bringing avatar/last stand/wall cd back up faster
oblique garnet
@livid kite Both classes are fine in their own regards it depends alot in what kind of content do you want to do i.e m+ or raids, in raids brm will be brm and theres hardly cases where its bad and in m+ prot warrior will shine next patch due to beguiling mobs leaving which gave monks the advantage with rop and stagger negating voids and dodging tides melees
broken isle
Prot warr can be a bit intimidating to learn at first but it's fun
livid kite
@oblique garnet after clearing last tier mythic raid, I have only been doing m+. I intend to do weekly hc runs in the new raid, but m+ will be the main focus.
That being said, I have always learned new raid encounters from the safety of my healing spot, so not having the healing offspec (on war) feels daunting.
Both characters are 448 atm, so they should both be ready for the new content.
broken isle
Is this your first tank?
livid kite
Did not consider thennew affix, thanks @oblique garnet
@broken isle I was prot war back in wrath, so no
Disc priest and mw up until 8.2
oblique garnet
Raid encounters are easier to learn from tank position imo, you rarely have much to do and dont really have to worry about anyone else but yourself
livid kite
Protection is rather strong on aoe dmg, I suppose that is common knowledge. Do we expect a (another) nerf any time soon?
warm plinth
Not really. We're still ahead but it's not by a mile like it was
analog swift
@livid kite i've mained both (prot war s2 brewmaster s3). Prot warrior definitely does more aoe damage but not THAT much more any more (mainly due to pull size constrant in s3 plus brewmaster weapon contributing to about 1K dps)
prot warrior is far more punishing for mistakes whereas lets say you fuck up on brew for your brew charges you can kite very easily with torpedo whereas leap might not always be up with warrior. Brew offers more utility (rop being godly in certain situations and even more so in s3), cleanse, single rez (great for death skips) debuff is slightly better than warrior after scroll usage, and paralysis, although warrior has fear (slightly less useful than rop) a single target stun if you talent into it and a much shorter cd aoe stun.
Warrior takes FAR less damage than monk but tbh that's not that helpful unless your healer is a god and pumping mad dps or doing mdi sized pulls. Unless you're literally dying (which is rare) the healer doing 3K vs. 5K HPS isn't that big of a deal.
Monk also has extremely strong cooldowns in dampehn harm zen med and fort brew whereas warrior really has shield wall (spell reflect as well). Brew self healing right now is absolutely bonkers but that's going away in s3 due to trinket changes and bug fixes
also warrior has spell reflect which is damn near necessary for triad and extremely helpful for first boss in underrot and temple
livid kite
@analog swift thanks, loads of helpful insights there.
I might be too worried about the nerfs to brewmasters, but I never got the trinket so the selfhealing bug was never something I got to enjoy.
I feel a lot more confident doing risky pulls on my warrior, even though I have stagger, rop, etc. on monk. Safe behind my shield. I live my shield. Not sure how much solo content will be a major thing in 8.3, but I suppose both tanks should be fine for whatever blizzard throws at us.
analog swift
the self healing bug wasn't due to the trinkets
you know how you spawn orbs
that heal you when you walk over them, they were about doubled
the trinkets (urchin and edicts) were amazing for brewmaster, good but not excellent for prot warrior
livid kite
Then I misunderstood, my bad. Thanks for clarifying. I thought the edict + stagger had some synergy that made it broken and was going to be fixed.
covert sentinel
the orbs spawned with higher frequency when you had alot of stamina...no doubling or things like that
stagger is physical dmg thats why you are more likely to get fanataic stacks on brewmaster. thats why edict is so strong for monk
warm plinth
Yeah, it was the spawn frequency that was bugged
analog swift
Yeah they were spawning about double as much as they were supposed to
warm plinth
Edicts on physical is easy to get fanaticism stacks on any tank assuming you're doing relevant keys. If you couldn't stack it, you wouldn't use it. Monk doesn't hold that unique position.
lusty grotto
happy new year @astral crystal and everyone ;P
astral crystal
:^)
analog swift
yeah but reducing physical damage has a bigger impact on monk than warrior
warrior already takes approximately zero phsyical damage
warm plinth
I didn't say it didn't. I was just saying he's wrong about it being good due to ease of stacks.
warm plinth
It's good because of how they take damage, not because they can get stacks easy
analog swift
yeah definitely
chilly brook
@tame garden don't tell anyone but I may or may not have played bear last night
analog swift
and then urchins trickle of heals is perfect for brew
warm plinth
Yep
analog swift
this tier was literally perfect made for brewmaster
and it was still close between brew and prot
analog swift
plz
chilly brook
Edict is really nice for monk because it also eats stagger
analog swift
yeah
warm plinth
Yes, that's what we were saying ❤️
chilly brook
Probably about the easiest class to build stacks because of that tbh
warm plinth
Which the other guy said that too. He just said something else that was incorrect, so I just wanted to clarify it.
analog swift
i mean all tanks are close
warm plinth
Easiest, yes, but it's not hard to get stacks on any spec.
chilly brook
Agreed
analog swift
but i'd expect next tier to go warrior S tier, paladin A tier monk A-
warm plinth
@outer dew is my S tier ❤️
chilly brook
The monk nerf is supposedly hitting them a decent amount for m+
outer dew
@warm plinth you triple SSS
analog swift
and i felt like monks did better against magic than warrior this tier (which is true) but it was more so do to being able to top yourself off one void case
cast*
when the class's biggest weakness is that they need lots of healing....and then they do competitive healing with the healer the class is fucking busted
broken isle
Paladin is a sleeper hit people dont realize how good they are
chilly brook
Guardian surprisingly felt good last night
analog swift
i agree
chilly brook
Paladin is 🤮
analog swift
i think pally is the biggest sleeper in raid tbh
chilly brook
I hate the way they feel
chilly brook
Spammy for spamming sake
analog swift
yeah
astral crystal
pallies feel slower than the ywere in legion to me honestly
kind of awkward to play them
astral crystal
legion pally spam was nuts
analog swift
not enough time
so it's not realy "spammy" it just seems like that because you feel like you ahve to hit 4 spells at once
chilly brook
And tbh I feel super squish for no reason
broken isle
Glass cannon
chilly brook
And lotp is ass on gcd
analog swift
also oneo f their azerite traits (I forget the name) gives you a buff when SOTR expires
warm plinth
You get globaled as a paladin? I don't think you're playing paladin right lol
analog swift
so you have this short period of time where it has to drop off before you add another
chilly brook
And seraphim doesn't feel good either tbh
analog swift
ok globaled is an exxageration
warm plinth
I don't use seraphim myself. Never cared for it
broken isle
Avenger shield most satisfying tank ability in game
warm plinth
I lose some DPS but Last Defender feels super nice in big pulls
analog swift
yeah
chilly brook
The class is you either build for dps or you build for survival
Unlike most other classes
analog swift
i mean
i do like that though
it's one of the few tanks that actually has talent choices
warm plinth
They still do good damage without Seraphim though, unlike VDH that does garbage in their tanky build
chilly brook
Idk I feel like I do really bad damage outside of cds
analog swift
yeah
chilly brook
On my pally
warm plinth
If you're not doing 16k overall then you're not doing as bad as a VDH lol
analog swift
they're so squish you need to spam judgment and lose AS
so half of your casts are single target
broken isle
Mastery entirely based off of consecrate
warm plinth
I completely disagree, but that's my opinion. I love how paladin plays
analog swift
sotr being armor gain is fucking ghey
like i get
they don't want it to be warrior but still
warm plinth
RIP Legion SotR
warm plinth
Wonder if they're gonna continue the no self-sustain for tanks in SL. Guess we should probably hope so or DKs will rise to the top again lol
chilly brook
Idk
I don't think it'd be horrible to allow blood to be more self sustaining
Other tanks just need to bring utility or have mitigation to match
Like prot for example is a good case
Since blood currently can do a lot in terms of self sustain atm
warm plinth
I think they took the last nerf to them a little far
chilly brook
Prot warrior this xpac has been an exercise in showing that a tank doesn't need to be all self sustain to bring something to the table and be relevant in high keys
west galleon
prot is just hit stuff so hard you take less damage
placid spindle
Trying to decide whether to get engineering to whatever level I need for the BR on my tank. I probably can't block, dodge or parry while channeling the CR, right?
placid spindle
Hm, maybe I'm not doing that since I also rolled dwarf and not night elf 😄 Thanks!
chilly brook
Just be an alchemist ez
warm plinth
Alchemy is nice
undone sun
You're nice
warm plinth
Thanks Thyme
analog swift
tbh I'm not so sure it was the nerf that hit blood dks so bad
obviously it was a nerf
but there were other factors at play, buffing warrior to massivel to block and then adding in double azerite rings when blood dks have terribleeeeee azerite choices
also no infested etc.
warm plinth
Well yeah there were other factors contributing to them not being meta, but they're kinda beyond not meta right now
analog swift
yeah that's true
manic scaffold
Is tanking more difficult then healing?
strong forum
depends
actually no
healing is always different
tanking is generally always the same
analog swift
yeah
warm plinth
Healing a pug and healing a good stable group is like night and day
manic scaffold
Im actually enjoying tanking so far i just still need to get used to the rotation its a nice break from dps only thing is, is you have a lot of pressure on you
autumn pendant
As tank you generally dictate tempo
As healer you gotta adjust to tempo
But i believe difficutly is subjective in this regard and mostly relies on group
ionic fern
The pressure will wear off as you get to know the class/content you are doing.
warm plinth
You have more pressure on a healer, arguably. Because you're almost always the person who gets blamed if someone dies lol.
Unless you just pull like an idiot as a tank
strong forum
true
manic scaffold
Ranged is easier then melee?
strong forum
yes, you can dodge way easier
ionic fern
Depending on the ranged spec but in general yes.
manic scaffold
I never played ranged
sick sentinel
Rotations for ranged can be more complicated
manic scaffold
My friend is always saying how hard ranged is compared to melee
sick sentinel
But the play style is a lot slower and a lot easier to keep up with
manic scaffold
Then again she might be biased cause she plays hunter
ionic fern
BM?
strong forum
doing DPS can be more complicated, but from a survival perspective and overall awareness ranged is 1000x easier than melee
sick sentinel
Melee dps are just chimps. But they are chimps who know how to move their characters while also damaging
warm plinth
If you play a BM hunter and think you have it harder than literally anyone, you're fuckin out of your mind
strong forum
ranged have alot more room to work with than melee
sick sentinel
Hey ghash you zip it I once Maine’s a BM hunter
strong forum
our warlock rerolled to BM hunter
warm plinth
I believe that
strong forum
cuz he wanted easy life
but then he failed to play even that
and did fuckall dps
and went back to warlock
ionic fern
I used to play a ton of Ranged DPS..once i went melee i found the hardest thing to actually be accustomed to tanks moving mobs around so i actually had to follow them to hit them.
sick sentinel
Yeah that’s the worst
When I play fury I feel like an absolute turd cause I can’t move with tanks lul
warm plinth
I struggled a lot as a melee at first because you don't really notice how big of an impact uptime has, in the moment
Like how well you can stay on a boss/pack is incredibly important
manic scaffold
I think she plays BM
warm plinth
BM has like all the benefits of being a melee but without having to be a melee
strong forum
and a 2 button rotation, whereas melee are usually 3 buttons
thats a whole button less
warm plinth
Hey, it's 3 in AoE, gotta multishot every 4 seconds
sick sentinel
I almost went back to BM strictly for dance of death build
warm plinth
It does sound fun
I started gearing my hunter for it but not sure I really have the patience to get caught up
sick sentinel
Yeah essences are a real bitch
Like you can barely get me to grind rep/do quest lines on my main how am i supposed to do it on an alt
manic scaffold
Shame they dont make it account bound
tame garden
sick sentinel
Don’t make me awaken hugedoink
manic scaffold
Is simming worth for tanks since its really just for damage and not survivability?
sick sentinel
If you want to do damage, yes
You just need to know the class well enough to understand survivability trade offs
ionic fern
A good tank should try to maximise all aspects of his class/spec.
But as Hawgz said - you have to understand the trade offs and when to take them/when not.
sullen valve
Hello my fellow prot warrior brothers and sisters
it is 2020 and wowA i still great for mw and PROT warrior
strong forum
grats late
warm plinth
Congrats Late!
I will accept my Stormforged promotion whenever you get a minute Vel ❤️
ionic fern
sullen valve
WOAH late
oblique garnet
: )
sullen valve
you're colorful boi
nice
I will expect my meme wowA role slave today :)
I got 2 on the inside now
ionic fern
Now you can troll 2 mods with that Abe. 😒
sullen valve
:devil:
I just want it to be easy for people to ping the wowA guy :(
at least in here
oblique garnet
You can discuss it with Vel
sullen valve
@ vel plz no beat me for asking for things :)
blazing dune
I would never
warm plinth
But you're a mod now Late
strong forum
what about my promotion ghash
warm plinth
Vel I think we need a new stormforged now
strong forum
huh
oblique garnet
Im just here to look pretty 🙂
warm plinth
😂
sullen valve
Truth
warm plinth
Has a nice ring to it
sullen valve
Do it mwahi
undone sun
😮
blazing dune
I think you'll have to earn Late and Mwahi's letters of recommendation first
sullen valve
Mwahi :sadkitty:
warm plinth
😦
undone sun
even late is valk
blazing dune
You know us thyme, our standards are low
warm plinth
@ionic fern @oblique garnet Vel needs your letters of recommendation shortly, please. The gold is in your mailbox
ionic fern
👀
warm plinth
Actually that reminds me, I need to watch that vod before it goes away 😬
warm plinth
Who said anything about gold?
ionic fern
😦
sick sentinel
Someone say gold
sullen valve
🏃
tame garden
🏃♀️
oblique garnet
🚓
sullen valve
Late please no abuse
placid spindle
So, speculative trinket question. What do we think about the alchemy trinket in 8.3 with edict and urchin going away?
Still good but not great?
warm plinth
Alc trinket has always been pretty good. The 40% on health pots is pretty awesome.
placid spindle
Hm. We're not getting new healthpots, right? That might make it even more useful, maybe
thanks, anyway 🙂
warm plinth
Not that I'm aware
trail jasper
am i delusional or doesnt kill on explosives give victory rush? o.o
warm plinth
It was bugged a few rotations ago
strong forum
ye its apparently bugged but not fixed
warm plinth
And they still haven't fixed it
trail jasper
oh dammit
strong forum
or intentional somebody keeps forgetting to tell us
chilly brook
The longer it goes unfixed the more I believe its intentional
warm plinth
Idk there are bugs that have been around for 5+ years that still aren't fixed, that are clearly bugs
chilly brook
Class bugs aren't usually something they drag their feet for
warm plinth
Yeah but like...look at the balance druid bug
That's a pretty fuckin annoying bug that's been in the game forever
warm plinth
strong forum
now he needs an emote too
warm plinth
Mwahi still doesn't even have one 😢
nova terrace
I have a question about Protection Warrior
warm plinth
Shoot
nova terrace
Is there any point to take Gemhide or Crystalline Carapace since there is no way to hit 10% of my hp in 1 hit :-?
warm plinth
I never take either of them, no.
strong forum
Gemhide and Crystalline have 100% uptime my friend, but theyre not great
warm plinth
47.7k what?
strong forum
Gemhides avoidance is pretty nice, but CC is very much useless
nova terrace
how can it be 100% uptime :-?
strong forum
it simply does
nova terrace
since it says " when dealt damage greater than 10% "
strong forum
yes
equip it and check for yourself in a dungeon
youll have it up basically all the time
left hatch
in revevant content you're always hitting that threshold, because its PRE-mitigation
relevant*
warm plinth
Yeah, like if something hits you for 10% of your health but you block half, it still triggers
left hatch
and im fairly sure its not 1 big hit for 10% theres a window of time where you could be hit by 10 mob AA's and still trigger it
not 100% on that one tho
true plover
Are you guys using unbridled fury for your potions at all times pretty much?
tame garden
for ST
warm plinth
str pots typically, unbridled for ST
tame garden
in keys you want str pots for trash
tame garden
cheap move is not potting at all tbh
true plover
What's the range for empowered though? I'm never quite sure if I'm close enough so I just go with unbridled
sick sentinel
unbridled for st, str pots for 3-5 targets but honestly who cares then empowered proximity for 6+ targets
tame garden
empowered is dynamic right
sick sentinel
yes
I prepot emmisary packs generally
like void for packs for example
use the other 5 mobs I pull with it to give me str and revenge procs to kill it faster
true plover
Oh I didn't know that. So, I can pre-pot and it'll update to the right amount as soon as i'm surrounded by mobs?
warm plinth
Yes
sick sentinel
yes
warm plinth
And then as mobs die, the str bonus goes down
exotic spoke
Hey there Prot chat
warm plinth
Riki look who's blue
exotic spoke
I saw
warm plinth
He's a big boi now
exotic spoke
Troof
autumn pendant
His climb was fast and impressive
vapid ibex
whats ignore pain baseline scale from? and ignore pain cap scale from?
strong forum
AP and vers
warm plinth
The cap is based on an individual cast of Ignore Pain at the time you cast the second, since things like vers procs or Bastion would increase the amount of a single cast.
So if your current AP/vers says a single cast of IP is 100k, then the current cap is 130k
chilly brook
So if I boost a class that I have artifact appearances of on another server will I still need to do the legion quests for the artifacts on that oon?
strong forum
artifact appearances are global for all the same classes
warm plinth
Uh, I don't believe so. I don't think I ever unlocked the resto weapon on my horde druid but I can still xmog the resto weapon shit
AFAIK it's like any other xmog; as long as it's the right class/spec, it should allow it
strong forum
whatever you unlocked on class X as artifact, will be available to all other characters of that class
chilly brook
didn't know if they handled the artifacts any different
chilly brook
If I wanted to go back and unlock new appearances though I'd need to unlock it on that toon though right?
hot verge
How come when i try to copy LLarolds WA pack i get his BM pack?
strong forum
wrong string
mossy crater
do you think swirling sands worth losing a 3rd bom defensively ?
hot verge
There's just the one to copy
warm plinth
No @mossy crater
strong forum
unless its an ilvl upgrade, no
then whoever posted it, uploaded the wrong string @hot verge
hot verge
Worked when i tried an older version. https://wago.io/EkacvGjKf I think it's an error on his side. Can someone else check perhaps?
sick sentinel
Don’t make me say it
strong forum
i mean dagga you see the picture
you can easily recreate it
very easily
or make it outright better, cuz it doesnt seem all that pretty to me
empty terrace
@oblique garnet Me prot now 
strong forum
welcome to the dark side
warm plinth
@hot verge There are two comments stating the same thing so it's definitely a wrong upload.
hot verge
Checking comments, very smort. Thanks
manic scaffold
Lol im a fucking idiot i thought spell reflect was only for pvp i didnt know i can deflect bosses spells or at least some of them thats cool
sharp night
@sick sentinel why str on 3-5 targets? you get more benefit out of empowered from that
mossy crater
Theres also a list of all reflectable spells too @manic scaffold in guide secrion
sharp night
empowered is better at 3+ targets
manic scaffold
Yeah thats how i found out i can do it lol. @mossy crater
true plover
Think we'll still be using urchin with 8.3?
left hatch
i mean, prism was an objectively better trinket than urchin, and wasn't worth keeping it with higher ilvl trinkets
so no, itll 100% be replaced
and thats ignoring rolling corruption on trinkets (not sure if thats possible since they didnt drop corrupted out of the M+ cache)
undone sun
no
warm plinth
Don't even have to have the correct name and I already know it's Levko
shut summit
🙅♂️
sick sentinel
@sharp night is it better at 3?
sharp night
yes
superior str pot is 1215 str at all times, empowered proximity is 360 base + 360 per enemy nearby
so at 3 enemies it's already 1440 str
sick sentinel
are you sure it's not 1080
sharp night
yes
i used an empowered proximity pot on accident on a ST boss
and it gave me 720 str
sick sentinel
then yeah
sharp night
basically the only time you would ever want to use a str pot is on 2 target cleave
sick sentinel
wait no
you are actually just wrong
I just tested it
it gives 1440 on the 4 dummies and 360 on the st dummy
I literally just drunk one to test
sick sentinel
it gives 360 with 0 enemies nearby
oblique garnet
^ maybe it counted like a critter or something as enemy
sick sentinel
and 360 with 1 enemy
sharp night
hm maybe
but it is 360 base, guess the increase kicks in at 2 target and there was something else nearby
in that case it's 4 enemies
but def not 6
distant crystal
yeah it's 4+ targets to beat str pot
but who knows how much str you need to beat UF
distant crystal
but like, i'd bet UF wins 2 target
sharp night
probably UF on 1-2 target
distant crystal
and for a tank spec i'd guess it probably goes further
sharp night
well it's a flat 20+haste rppm for UF
distant crystal
but str is less dps for a tank than for say..fury
whereas UF is the same if haste is equal
sick sentinel
I just have proximity and unbideled bound
distant crystal
does UF scale with vers
sick sentinel
yes
distant crystal
ye
sick sentinel
bugatsa my man I missed you
sweet kettle
Why did you miss me lmao
undone sun
but some do double dip
warm plinth
Does atonement double dip? Or is it purely based on damage done?
sharp night
oh yeah atonement is just a flat transfer like leech
sweet kettle
distant crystal
i think the transfer is based on the pre-vers dmg you dealt but the heal scales w/ vers
cause it also doesn't get hurt by damage redux
sharp night
it's pre-any modifier
distant crystal
like if a mob takes 99% reduced dmg
you still atonement transfer the full
any modifier except schism :p
oh and also DH debuff
that increased atonement too
distant crystal
i haven't showered since 2018
undone sun
i don't think i'd be too wrong in saying if you didn't like the patches prior, you probably wont like it now
ember arrow
also thyme
distant crystal
you may be more likely to like 8.3 tho
ember arrow
u play wow again?
distant crystal
horrorforging 
sharp night
to me, 8.3 seems like a worse grind than 8.2 with an infinite grind that has no catchup
autumn pendant
isnt it kinda capped
undone sun
lol no @ember arrow
sharp night
not at all, there's infinite grind on cloak but it's time gated so you can never catch up if you miss a week
ember arrow
ah ok
sharp night
i mean it's "capped" but you'll always be behind someone who's been doing it consistently
sweet kettle
I keep hearing that everything can be farmed instead of rng being king
left hatch
I do'nt think they've said either way if the corruption res is gonna keep stacking or theres a set amount of upgrades
sweet kettle
Dont know if i like that
left hatch
I'd imagine itll work like every other legendary upgrade where it eventually caps out
and yah if you botch a week you'll be behind but, thats how legendaries have always worked
at least this one isn't dependent on RNG drops to upgrade it
so being behind is 100% on you commiting the 1/2 hour or so a week to obtain it
sharp night
wowhead said it was ~2h a week
left hatch
doing a full mask run isn't 2 hours
sharp night
which is ok if you only play one or two characters i guess
left hatch
if were talking exclusively the corruption upgrade
sharp night
you have to farm the coalesced visions from invasions
it's not just zoning in and doing the run
sweet kettle
Well wow isnt and won't be alt friendly on current content any time soon
left hatch
for your 1 'mask run a week' for the corruption res
the first 15 upgrades do take a bit more work
sharp night
ah
and yeah if you try to maintain more than 2 characters i think it's basically impossible
at least the essence grind had an end
left hatch
eh ill take ~2 hours a week per toon any day over essences/ap slog
undone sun
🙃
sharp night
well the 2h a week isn't at your leisure since there's dailies that have to be done for the first few weeks at least
gotta do the daily quest every day and mini-invasion twice a week and the main invasion
sharp night
yeah
it's just a worse system than essences imo which could be started and stopped whenever without really "being behind"
left hatch
and tbh the only really necesary daily is the baby Visions
idk i think its a better legendary type system then they've done in the past
where you could be put behind just because of shit rng
sharp night
yeah
left hatch
and catchups weren't put in till the tier ended
sweet kettle
Essences was the biggest shitshow in this expansion in terms of farming
sharp night
only if you wanted them right away
sweet kettle
Even now
distant crystal
i got lucid r3x5
sharp night
i've played 12 chars since legion and have all the r3 essences that are decent on all of them
distant crystal
bote r3x4
strong forum
after i was completely done with my warri essence grind on DH was kinda chill
distant crystal
kek
distant crystal
wtf
sharp night
and cns3
sharp night
it's easy
sharp night
5 minutes a day per char
sweet kettle
Rep requirements and time gated content isnt always fun
sharp night
for a few months
sweet kettle
distant crystal
and you know it ends up being more than 1hr
or do you like minmax which follower you pick based on its dailies
strong forum
lucid is fast, but r4 is just being beyond bored AF
distant crystal
to avoid the fathom flesh bullshit
warm plinth
How much do you play a week though Waat
sharp night
i skipped the fathom flesh ones
distant crystal
a lot
strong forum
thats just being fucking BORED
warm plinth
Like it's just an hour, maybe an hour and a half
Just have to buckle down and actually do it
sharp night
only got fathom flesh like 3 times in the entire month of that follower
tardy warren
Hey guys, question about versatility for prot. Around how much do I need and what stats should come before it?
sharp night
but yeah essences weren't too bad cause i could take a break whenever
i don't like timegated stuff that puts you permanently behind
left hatch
@tardy warren ilvl is more important than anything else
on equivilant ilvl Haste is more important
distant crystal
they should just make it like pvp caps
strong forum
@tardy warren no specific amount needed haste > crit for m+
haste > vers for raid
left hatch
and in M+ crit is better
distant crystal
it's timegated but you can grind more based on how far behind you are
sharp night
if they have an eventual cap then i'd be fine with that too
left hatch
more stats >>>> specific stats
sharp night
like if there's only 20 corruption resist upgrades total or something
sharp night
but if it's legit just infintie grind
tardy warren
ok, thanks all
sharp night
when someone else has like 150 corruption resist and you have 30
the power differential would be dumb
left hatch
my big question on the infinite grind is will the ranks passed 80 that only contribute ilvl to the neck
still scale essences
or is it JUST the +2 secondaries on your neck each rank
sharp night
they said major progression stops so i assume they mean no more essence scaling past 80
but maybe they overlooked it
left hatch
last blue post says it scales past 80
sharp night
yeah
warm plinth
Oh, well I'm sure it scales to 85 which is the new cap
e.g. vision minor will still increase til 85
sharp night
well they said there's no cap, you can infinite grind neck but it just raises the ilvl by 2
left hatch
id need to see a blue post saying theres a hard cap, because most recent one on it on wowhead
says theres a soft cap at last stam upgrade
but no hard cap
itll def be worth it to continue islands if essences continue scaling tho
more and more avatar uptime muhahaha
warm plinth
Oh I guess it doesn't specifically say it stops at 85 but I assumed that since it stopped at 85 before and they've removed the infinite trait that it would just stop at 85
distant crystal
we'll just have to watch BUCKETHEAD
strong forum
pretty sure i read it caps at 85, last stam node being 80
warm plinth
https://www.wowhead.com/news=296385/infinite-heart-of-azeroth-trait-removed-on-8-3-ptr is the last thing I can find that mentions neck level and it doesn't explicitly say it. But considering the whole point of removing the infinite trait was so you could be "done" with the necklace, it seems silly to leave it open-ended, because people are always going to min/max for the extra 2 ilevels on the neck
sharp night
yeah
the thing that makes me think it's not capped is they said
We’ve heard a lot of feedback from players, and we agree, that there’s value in being able to reach a point where you’re essentially done with Artifact Power.
emphasis mine
saying essentially done implies you aren't actually done
thus implying there are further levels
left hatch
that and saying you can continue to increase the ilvl without specifying any endpoint
warm plinth
Guess we'll see
left hatch
tbh i don't mind the open ended ap grind
sharp night
if they intended on there being a hard cap
they would have stated that you can reach a point where you are done
imo
left hatch
hitting ap cap -> me not logging on outside of raids and dungoens and the past
so it might be trivial gains but still seomthign to work towards power wise
sharp night
yeah i don't mind an infinite ilvl grind because it feels like you still get benefit out of doing content other than "just for fun"
left hatch
^
sharp night
but it's not important enough that you need to grind it either
left hatch
trivial gains are still gains, and the open-ended paragon system worked really well for D3
sharp night
i feel like if essences still scaled with neck level beyond that, then it would be more than trivial so people would feel like they would need to grind it a bit
left hatch
yah, but its also the sorta thing blizz would overlook
sharp night
so i think they won't have it scale unless it was an oversight
ember arrow
ty guys for the info
oblique garnet
@ember arrow Wow is good again 🙂
ember arrow
👍
undone sun
doubt
winged grail
Don't
So I have a 440 Haste / Crit shield, and now got a 440 Mastery / Versa shield with Avoidance and Socket... I suspect the latter is better but just want to have your thoughts 🙂
noble cliff
strong forum
440+ socket
oblique garnet
@warm plinth Did you like what you saw xd