and metic is 7.3%
#protection
ionic fern
Jeah, that's how it works.
Seize the moment is the actual haste buff you get from procing the Metic.
So first it's "Meticulous Scheming" and after you proc it with 3 different spells it turns into "Seize the moment" for 20s.
warm plinth
Word
distant crystal
i wonder if it's even worth tracking
seems like the chances of not casting 3 different spells is near nill
undone sun
Usually aren't
strong forum
Na i only track seize the moment cuz I like to see my procs
Seize has uptime from 15-40%
It's a fickle thing
warm plinth
You're a fickle thing
hallow phoenix
I track it when I'm running devastator in raids
Sometimes can get stuck in a tclap shield slam cycle and it's nice to know when to add in a third spell
smoky shoal
When using Last Stand, Bolster works the same as Shield Block?
Or SB should be used while poping Last Stand?
strong forum
Last stand is the same as SB, with bolster
Except for the 30% more dmg on Shield Slam part
noble mica
Guys, deadline for the +15 achievement is closing and I got in the run too late. I normally play DD-warrior and now I'm still lacking KR, TD, and ML. In prot I'm 446 but my weapon and shield are 425 and 430. I have tanked earlier in my time as a warrior and I used to gear up in BFA8 months ago.
Given your best judgement, am I too optimistic considering tanking the last 3 in order to enter a group?
I'm getting a little desperate here now...
steep shuttle
do i just want to stack haste verse for tanking?
i got about 23 % haste, 10% verse
steep wraith
Your weapon and shield definitely won't hold you back from doing a +15 Velo
warm plinth
Depends on what else you have
hallow phoenix
I mean those are fine trinkets
hallow phoenix
I would use vial over jes personally
steep shuttle
oh really?
steep shuttle
all are 430
strong forum
@noble mica idk what to tell you, how knowledgeable are you, a higher shield does benefit you but is not needed, there's more factors than your own play
warm plinth
Vial is fine too; I just avoid on-use trinkets unless they're head and shoulders above what else I have
And inkpod is very consistent
steep shuttle
what do you run ghash?
noble mica
I know how to tank and I have done it before. But starting out tanking a KR+15...
hallow phoenix
Why can't you just dps them Velo
warm plinth
Haste for days
hallow phoenix
Mechagon red card
noble mica
That is the question. Is it too optimistic and is me even considering it a sign of desperation:
I can't dps them 'cause getting into groups is a very difficult. I'm only 1583 in rio
broken isle
Not overclock
strong forum
1583 rio is perfectly fine for 15z
warm plinth
Yeah it's the mechagon red card. Gives you haste after using 12 spells and then you get a tiny haste debuff for 6 seconds
strong forum
That's exactly the score you get from 15s/14s
So typically it should be exactly your range
broken isle
The red card that can drop from HM mech to be specific
strong forum
^
noble mica
Yea, and I agree and I have done 7/10 now but people tend to expect people to be more than that. Therefore tanking might make it easier to get invited.
strong forum
Easier to get invited yes
Since dps warri isn't exactly what pugs look for
Especially on lower keys they are blinded into meta
It's best to just find a couple people and then run with them, instead of pugging
Makes less quitters and more fun
noble mica
But ok, you both seem to think that it should be possible when I have prior tanking experience, experience with the dungeons, and that prot warr is a meta-tank, ty for your replies.
warm plinth
KR TD and ML is a pretty shit last 3 though 😂
strong forum
Cuz 9/10 you can still time a 15 with 2 full wipes
But pugs quit after the first
For some autistic reason
grim skiff
I’m a non quitter pug player 💪🏼
broken isle
U should read a bit on m+ routes for those dungs too
broken isle
People will expect u know what to pull, if u dont they'll pull for you lol
noble mica
Yes, I would prefer a solid group but I've been living in pug-world for far too long. I joined a solid guild a few weeks back. This will help me down the line :)
I have done the dungeons enough to know what and how to pull.
My only worry is the fact that I haven't pull them before. I don't know how hard they hit. I would be playing very reactively.
warm plinth
You'll be fine Velo. Tbh the hardest part will be finding pugs for those specific dungeons that will be competent
Since if I had to pick 3 dungeons that are the hardest to time for a pug, it'd be those 3 lol
noble mica
Ok, I i fail to find groups I'll start tanking them... TY for your replies. Yes, KR especially seems to be difficult. I have been very close with the other 2.
warm plinth
Yeah
warm plinth
Think you can avoid most though can't you? You have the one at the start, the one in the middle, and then I think the rest are skippable aren't they?
broken isle
We avoided most of them yea
noble mica
Again, ty for your guidance 🙂
warm plinth
Sure thing Velo. That's what we're here for
broken isle
But it was scary
warm plinth
Yeah bolst/griev is probably up there for worst affixes in ML tbh
distant crystal
it's one of the few dungeons where tyr > fort
and bolstering is ultrabad there
and grievous just sorta always sucks, but it's the best of those 3 prob
left hatch
@steep shuttle for stat prio haste/verse is for raid. for M+ its haste/crit (this is assuming equivilant ilvl tho)
hallow phoenix
ML ain't too bad so long as you don't let those peacekeepers spawn
hallow phoenix
Ghash not in public 😳
warm plinth
😬
hallow phoenix
Bolstered rock lances can truck too so keep those interrupted or reflected
hallow phoenix
Does that work
warm plinth
Nah because they'd have more HP too haha
hallow phoenix
Was hoping for some weird scaling :(
distant crystal
grease guns tho
for all those jockeys that you didn't let get in that peacekeepers
unborn agate
Is there a way to see the damage done by spell reflect on warcraft logs?
undone sun
Should be self damage done the target that casted the spell
unborn agate
Makes sense, thanks
ionic fern
Jep.
Enemies->Pick the enemy who you reflected->Damage Taken and then search for the spell you reflected.
So for example this is ToS.
ripe mason
I simmed for Droptimizer in mythic EP and it told me my biggest upgrade would've been a font of power.
I'm just going to choose not to listen to that.
ionic fern
Get that Inkpod+Coral instead. 
graceful sundial
How do you reflect cyclone? Only those targeted to you or those targeted on others? Or whatever?
left hatch
its when it targets others, you just walk in front of it
warm plinth
The key is to walk in front of it, hit reflect, and don't move
sweet summit
and dont accidentally reflect jolt first :)
river escarp
there's 3 cyclones no? Do you need to stand a bit farther away to reflect one or do you just stand on the mob and reflect all 3?
nimble mauve
Yeah make sure you aren't targeted by Jolt. I got one shot by Cyclone because the Jolt cast used my Reflect.
warm plinth
You reflect all of them. Just stand in regular melee range
Just don't overthink it. If it targets someone else, strafe, stop, reflect. It's way simpler than people make it out to be
spice shoal
best prot essence for m+ vision major, lucid and aegis/strife ?
median niche
Best weaponenchant for m plus?
strong forum
force multiplier
ionic fern
@spice shoal Vision Major, Sphere/lucid/aegis/cns are all decent minors.
median niche
Thanks
grim skiff
What ilvl is it worth spending gold to enchant gear?
strong forum
depends on your budget
i'd use it at every ilvl tbh
unless leveling ofc
the lower your ilvl, the more value enchants have, yknow
left hatch
unless you really plan on pushing keys, i wouldn't bother till 8.3 drops. With the new tier i don't start enchanting till i start getting stuff i won't replace for awhile, IE M+ gear from 15's or heroic pieces with nice corruption rolls
strong forum
sounds like bad advice to me tbh
left hatch
idk if hes concerned about gold and is pushing its likely you'll get replacement pieces pretty quick
if you have enchanting yourself or friends obv toss it on everything to make replacing easier
2k-4k per ench when you're swapping it 2-3 times a week can get pretty spensive
strong forum
assuming you dont make 5ilvl steps
not really
it goes like 370-400-430 on basically any piece
if you have friends 370-430
left hatch
at which point you're clearing so quickly you can just grab 430's
w/o worrying about enchants
but thats just me being pretty gold starved and having the luxury of easy access to farmable heroic quality loot, if you know you won't reach heroic quality within a week or 2 itd be worth considering enchanting lower
grim skiff
I mean if it’s 2k per enchant that isn’t bad... that’s 15 mins of running an old instance
hallow phoenix
Just make gold 
strong forum
ye enchants are cheap
grim skiff
Can you buy them off Ah?
ionic ridge
Hey guys, is it worth using the essence drops from raid to take azeroth's undying gift or should I just roll them into CLF ?
strong forum
how else would you get them
left hatch
undying gift is like super super niche
strong forum
just get CLF tbh
left hatch
^
ionic ridge
is there any chance of it being used in 8.3 ? (in case I missed an info related to that)
left hatch
havn't looked too in depth on all the fights, but from what iv seen theres no crazy tank buster like org 1st hit
so not that im aware of
and unless you're top 100, yo'ull likely overgear anything crazy like that anyway
ionic fern
It's always good to have various essences prepped tho. I'd take Undying just in case there's some cheese strats or w/e. Unless you're a main DPS player in which case go for CLF.
left hatch
if you don't do dps that much then yeh, esp since ClF is getting a big ol nerf so it might not even be bis
have AUG just in case
toxic wadi
Who is a high level prot streamer for keystones?
left hatch
red dot next to their name means they're live
also reduron on twitch, not live rn but vods and stoof
toxic wadi
kk
strong forum
Naowh is pretty good, but dont copy what hes doing, just a tip
strong forum
cuz hes playing leech build, again
empty nacelle
was that not just for the no healer shit they were doing the other day?
havent watched him in a while
strong forum
na hes still playing lucid and siphoning
empty nacelle
cause i saw they did a 21 FH with no healer
empty nacelle
ye
toxic wadi
yeah the freehold no healer? Some DK is pulling like 300k on first pull
strong forum
well thats just the usual
empty nacelle
thats what uhdks do
strong forum
he was frost
toxic wadi
oh wow
willow hawk
I just heard that prot will be able to spell reflect "Spirit Breaker" (increased dmg taken for 100%) - one of lieutenants abilities. Is is still a thing on ptr?
tidal sleet
That’s pretty awesome, if so.
exotic spoke
haven't tested it but that sounds legit since its already that way in WCM
warm plinth
👍
sweet summit
would be pog, as you cant dodge, parry or block it afaik
strong forum
overclock
lilac bough
how do you guys feel this week? Im getting my ass kicked in M+s (14s pugs)
strong forum
its a terrible week
near ivy
its a hard week
but 14's arent exactly extremely difficult
people are doing 20-21 keys without a healer this week
strong forum
*the best of the best
thing is, grievous and bolstering can make a key hard regardless of which level youre doing, and pugging with bad people can make key real hard, real fast
left hatch
^ bolstering can be fucked by bad pulls OR dps not watching their dps (: and pugs tend to body pull/tunnel vision
empty nacelle
i mean just not being on the same page with some of the void pulls can also fuck things up
pure pond
I've found atal to be chaos in general with pugs
empty nacelle
motherlode 
stoic forge
atal 😄
distant crystal
at least you can sap/cage the screamers
and mass blast saurids separately
motherlode is awful even if your group is super coordinated
near ivy
KR is awful because numbers are high
ML is awful because theres soo much shit that needs to be dealt with
empty nacelle
and some pug always managed to body pull another pack in ML
left hatch
i can't count the # of times I've had a druid mass root or rogue distract the fear adds in KR to keep them patrolling while handling a pull, and someone instantly pulls them with a chain lightning or other aoe -_-
yes, thanks i wanted to fight an omegabolstered shield add thanks
empty nacelle
ye well KR is just an ass dungeon tbh
tidal sleet
We just sacrifice someone on the back panel to auto gib those adds when you ring the gong. It’s worth the 1 death penalty to nullify wipe chances on bolster weeks
grim skiff
I like kings rest :/
I dislike underrot and motherload tho
tame garden
^
brittle owl
UR lowkey bis dungeon
strong forum
👀
grim skiff
Well I’ve had a rough time with pugs, maybe it’s better with people that have brains :/
warm plinth
Underrot and Waycrest are awesome. Always easy
Though tbh I can see why someone who pugs mostly would hate Underrot
Because both Cragmaw and Sporecaller can suck ass if people don't do the mechanics properly
Not to mention that double defiler pull 2 out of 3 weeks
autumn pendant
tbh only time underrot and WM was hard was when tyranical + grievious was a thing
distant crystal
and when blood bolt was busted scaling
analog swift
I remember at the beginning of the expansion everyone thought underrot was super hard, fuckers trying to skip the second skeleton pack and all that which is free percent
same when 90% of pugs stunned mech jockeys
even w/ blood bolt being busted just kick forehead
analog swift
no way
distant crystal
p sure...
analog swift
lemme see
distant crystal
rdruids would go boomkin for that fight
so they could blast things down fast enough to not run out of kicks
analog swift
you're right
march it was hotfixed
huh i guess i just burned it down
also playing prot warrior destroyed the fucking boss
distant crystal
it was only a huge issue on keys higher than i ran really
analog swift
yeah
I guess people just learning that underrot has REALLY easy mechanics
deadlyish
but easy
each lasher can be handled by one melee
distant crystal
last boss was such a shitshow on tyr
analog swift
swarmers have to be mini kited, or spam hibernated
distant crystal
when nobody knew how to do it
analog swift
it's by far one of the easiest dungeons but i also wonder if the massive amount of room just makes beguiling easier to deal with
distant crystal
or the things bounce and go all over
analog swift
yeah but even then it wasn't nearly a big deal
distant crystal
yeah just would always wonder why it sometimes seemed to land where nobody was until after the cast
analog swift
yeah yeah
distant crystal
now we just point her clockwise and move ccw
analog swift
also realizing hmmm we can jsut walk past all these worms it's easy af
i think underrot is legit one of the best dungeons designed
i think most mechanics should be like that dungeons
distant crystal
yeah p sure it's my fav
grand spruce
is 2x meticulous good for prot?
distant crystal
freehold is nice just cause it's so flexible with what pulls you do
analog swift
yeet
analog swift
yeah freehold as well, i really do like that freehold does small rotations on a 3 week basis
distant crystal
but powder shot/azerite powder shot are busted
analog swift
yeah
grand spruce
cheers
analog swift
outside of those two
but similarly
everyone lusted on shark boss
because they would just fucking die cuz people didn't know how to bait shark
analog swift
LOL
now people just lust 1/3/4
although the timer is a bit tight now (good change tho)
distant crystal
yeah it's still very 2chestable but it was dumb how you could wipe a few times and still 2chest on a relevant key level before
analog swift
but tons of different routes to do, good spawn points so you don't have to run far af when you die
yeah absolutely
actually freehold season 2 was my lowest key forever
because after one wipe on say a 19
the leader would just say "eh I'd rather 2 chest the 18 instead of risking it"
left hatch
i really like atal
minus the inconsistent teeming packs that can completely fuck a run
left hatch
yeh that too
analog swift
atal got fucked with bequiling tho
i don't like mobs that just cast on random players
start just getting one shot in high keys
grim skiff
Just wait for Mechagon M+
slender finch
for raid do you stack coral until inkpod explodes? (Using 2 reckless flurry/1shield slam/1 undulating tides)
sick sentinel
Depends how long the fight is
On a 2 min fight, sure
But if I can get it to 10-15 stacks multiple times I tend to like it with avatar
slender finch
Aight im still learning to play with full dps traits and trinkets 😁
grim skiff
What are the BiS trinkets obtainable outside of raids
slender finch
I used underrot on use for a very long time
vial of animated blood is the name I think and in other slot I use jaina trinket for m+
sick sentinel
Vial is good not great. But 90% of players use it incorrectly. Butchers block and rezans are good cookie cutter prot trinkets that will provide you a lot of value both offensively and defensively
grim skiff
I have Edicts from LFR and JesHowler / Rezan
Also have punch card but dunno how it stacks up at only 405 ilvl
sick sentinel
Is the Engineering helm good dor Prot?
left hatch
there's better but its not awful
limber pagoda
So how you use the vial?
left hatch
After Avatar, before first TC
most ppl bind it onto Ava and waste the first tick of it
which is the juiciest
frosty holly
Did they just pick warriors as the go to, to explain this. Or did they pick warrior tank because it hits us the hardest?
undone sun
it's an easy standard
also probably because just about every other tank is based on armor and warr is 90% about block
next plover
Yeah I am not sure but I think it was because the author had a prot warrior on hand to get some easy numbers to show off
undone sun
don't think squishei is a main tank he is
next plover
I honestly do not know
Part of me feels this is just a pre-emptive move where as the gear starts to flow it would even out
But no doubt it will get taken out of context
undone sun
K value isn't a new concept, it's been in the game and changing every "season" since at least legion
idr how it was handled in wod
next plover
Yeah its not new or anything
I just laugh a bit as I suspect the greater community will grab the numbers shown for prot warrior and mis-apply them if that makes sense
Oh so he is a main tank?
undone sun
i was told he tanks for Might
mortal brook
not really different from every other season
undone sun
not at all different
mortal brook
getting my guild to do 15s will be a pain tho
oblique garnet
Its almost like K values have changed each season but people forget about it and think its a nerf 😃
next plover
Well we know but you know what the greater community can be like
mortal brook
greater community all rerolling to bdk atm, rite? 🎸
next plover
Yeah they keep going on about it without any understanding because "hurr durr magic damage"
Completely ignoring that they are not particularly good at handling magic damage compared to certain other tanks
Its just they like monks don't care about the type of damage since their response is always the same in all situations
next plover
Oh he did? Neat I'll go read that as I am curious about what he thinks on the matter
mortal brook
tldr bdks arent special, they scale linearly despite what streamers say, play brm
fringe folio
I also liked Mandl’s take on BDK. Apparently a Limit streamer went off on that post, but I think it’s valid what Mandl says
mortal brook
max went off on mandl's current raid xp for like half an hour but then agreed with most of the post 😄
fringe folio
Ah I see 🙂
next plover
Well that article was a good read
woven venture
So I boosted my prot warrior like 6 days ago, I've managed to get him to 430 ilvl through just M+, feeling good. But my shield is still the green 390 shield from boosting. I just keep running underrot, motherlode, and atal dazar trying to get shields and nothing. Used 4 bonus rolls too. =/
dark lark
next plover
The eternal struggle
nimble mauve
Who maintains the spell reflect google doc? I think an honorable mention would be Fallen Deathspeakers in UR. You can put the Wicked Assault debuff on them with SR from Wicked Frenzy
ionic fern
@shut summit
Tho i'm not sure if he wants to do thrash mob reflects. Think it's mostly about bosses
nimble mauve
There's a little section about notable trash mobs.
And the DS is mentioned
But no info about reflect.
frosty spindle
Do you guys happen to know how far into Alchemy you have to get to be able to do two hour Flasks.?
nimble mauve
I saw it on YoDa's stream today and thought it would be solid to know. That's a pretty wicked debuff.
@frosty spindle have to be able to craft it
frosty spindle
If I picked up Alch right now, think it would take long.? Or a ton of Gold.?
brittle owl
thing is if you reflect it, you reflect just one application if it isn't soothed from the mob
if the mob keeps whacking you it will still apply
nimble mauve
Hmm. I'm not too sure, depends on your server and stuff. A lot is pretty cheap, but I've noticed Anchor Weed being pricey.
The damage is huge though
ionic fern
@frosty spindle you can check any of the Alchemy guides online(8.2 alchemy guide - just google it).
In general leveling professions does take some/a lot of gold depending on what's your other one.
For example if you got Herbalsim/Alchemy it'll take less gold.
I think r3 flasks are lvl 175 tho.
delicate swan
/cancelaura blessing of protection
@ionic fern 😂❤️
exotic spoke
Morning prot qtpies
ionic fern
Correct.
sweet summit
ilvl>>>>haste>crit
lilac bough
awesome, thanks
exotic spoke
Hi! And yes Ilvl - haste - crit
wooden radish
@ionic fern Hi. I read this WoWHead article from last night. Does scaling K make Warrior shit for M+ in Season 4? I'll hang up and listen.
wooden radish
@ionic fern ❤️
autumn pendant
@ionic fern
merry socket
so for m+, cthraxxi or lock jaw?
ionic fern
Do you have DC on another piece?
If yes then take Lockjaw for BoM/IF
Otherwise take Cthraxxi for IF/DC/OP
analog swift
I wish I actually knew the names Of the pieces
sick sentinel
Imagine knowing what a k value is
strong forum
imagine knowing the K value always increased every season 
warm plinth
Imagine knowing that you don't actually have a 55% block reduction in M+ 😏
analog zinc
i read the comments of that post
& people are just complaining about how theyre making m+ worse
like how
its literally just scaling
strong forum
its only just compiled aswell
like, its just a compiled post of the previous individual posts off PTR
warm plinth
Eh I mean, it's more scaling up front than it was previously, which is kinda rough. I mean a 52.6% increase on top of the k values changing (which is normal) is gonna be pretty spicy
strong forum
ontop of the affix itself going to be hella easier and corrupted gear
sheeple are just spazzing like usual
analog zinc
corrupted gear is arguable
strong forum
ye its going to be a good season for m+
analog zinc
we're not sure if it'll be better than titanforging in terms of player power
warm plinth
I mean, when you consider that people are using 425 benthics that give what 2% crit damage? Over 455s
strong forum
^
warm plinth
Imagine how good 6% is if 2% is that good
strong forum
and now you can get MAX ilvl WITH benthic effects
warm plinth
Yeah
warm plinth
I'm just looking forward to not having emissaries tbh. Like beguiling was fine as an affix but I'm glad it's over
analog zinc
you just feel so free with beguilling gone
warm plinth
Looking forward to just being able to pull what I wanna pull and not having some extra mechanic making already challenging pulls impossible without having a root lol
strong forum
^
broken isle
Itll be really cool to use an obelisk and just run to the end of the dungeon lol
warm plinth
It's gonna make for some very interesting routes
broken isle
Work your way back to start then use ur 1st portal to get to last boss again
ripe mason
Lucid major vs vision major for m+? Avatar procs are nice for damage and survivability but you can't really choose when it procs, unlike lucid which is on demand survivability.
strong forum
VoP has more offensive and defensive benefits on average but its not "on demand" as you put it
Lucid only really works if you play around it a bit and has only defensive benefits
ripe mason
Naowh seems to be using Lucid major for the extra sustainability.
But then again he's doing +20 and over keys
strong forum
naowh also uses siphoning
ripe mason
Not really comparable
strong forum
doesnt mean you should do too
ripe mason
Siphoning as in the trait?
strong forum
weapon enchant.
hes just memeing around for now
cuz hes playing with Hpal
so he can sustain for 15sec in big packs while zmok dps'es
if you want to you can too, but if you arent very experienced youll perform better with VoP for sure
especially if you like pumping dps
ripe mason
Sure but experience only comes from doing something.
I've got a 9 ml so I guess I can try it out there
warm plinth
Dude
ripe mason
Just something low to try it out in
strong forum
lucid only has benefits on actual high keys
warm plinth
Lucid major is for being insanely self-sufficient for a brief period on very high keys for big pulls
warm plinth
It's going to do nothing for you if you're not doing high keys
slim pier
Is it good for sufficiently using ignore pain?
strong forum
you do anyway
warm plinth
I don't really understand the question
slim pier
Oh nvm then
strong forum
you always use IP
warm plinth
It's basically just an absorb shield except you only absorb half the damgae
Instead of all of it
strong forum
its a rage dump that absorbs 50% of incoming damage
warm plinth
So if you have a 50k ignore pain shield, and you take 50k damage, 25k gets absorbed and the other half still happens
But you still have 25k left on Ignore Pain
strong forum
its not "so good"
its usable
but not amazing, it just helps you self sustain in giga high keys cuz it gives you 20% leech for its active duration
slim pier
So I'm assuming vop is generally better
broken isle
It's not a proc and ull know u have something to use for those giant pulls
strong forum
you could treat it as an additional 2min CD that only works if you have a shitton of adds to attack
which technically isnt needed
its usable, not saying its bad to use it
essences dont make or break a tank
lunar jackal
strong forum
gore block + rezans / inkpod / coral
warm plinth
Depends what you got I suppose
warm plinth
You're a Jaina trinket
strong forum
owo
ionic fern
On the topic of Lucid Major.
It does pretty much give you 2x Avatars in a row but it hinders your AoE DPS in the sense that you want to generate as much rage as possible so you prioritize SS over TC for the extra gain during its window.
nimble mauve
Is it worth replacing 430 azerite with BoM with 445 azerite that doesn't?
rapid belfry
will I always overpull 11-15% in WM without shroud or deathskips? Bottom right door way
warm plinth
Yes Auzara
nimble mauve
I got bottom right last night and didn't over pull at all. Top right, yes.
Awesome, thanks!
@rapid belfry we did invis pot basement, actually.
My b
warm plinth
Yeah was gonna say you'd probably be like 14 over or something on bottom right
Unless you skip somehow
nimble mauve
Matron Alma
trim talon
trim talon
Skipping him anyway
full cloud
Thought I saw Shadow of Zul nerf recently
trim talon
Have DH in grp ez
nimble mauve
Avade already found a new way
warm plinth
You can't skip him in 8.3
nimble mauve
Bless that purple boi
trim talon
blizzard making shit real difficult forsenSWA
nimble mauve
Nah
strong forum
yes
full cloud
Aren't they nerfing his health and damage to compensate or something?
nimble mauve
Avade found new skip
trim talon
link to source
warm plinth
No, because the skip was never an intended thing
strong forum
theyre nerfing Zul HP by 6% and apparently fixing the Skip
nimble mauve
He can replicate it 100% too from what I've heard
strong forum
trim talon
warm plinth
Idk I'd be far less inclined to be skipping him in 8.3
When it's very clear Blizzard doesn't want us to
rapid belfry
Ok thx @nimble mauve, trying to make a noob friendly route with randoms as I started tanking 2 weeks ago, and I don't wanna do triads with both packs in the boss room as well and ended up 15% over with that.
trim talon
Does nitro booster get global emotes?
nimble mauve
He was talking about it on YoDa's stream I think
strong forum
no
warm plinth
No, we don't have global emotes in this channel
strong forum
only in #off-topic you can use global emotes
warm plinth
I think offtopic does
strong forum
cuz Vel is big booly
blazing dune
strong forum
😏
warm plinth
Yeah pretty sure 114.52 is the best you can do if you're killing everything in triad room and not skipping anything
I guess you could technically leave a few of the mobs at the entrance but not like that saves any time
trim talon
There once will come a day global emotes will be a thing
nimble mauve
Highly recommend doing an invis pot somewhere @rapid belfry
strong forum
you can skip alot of trash without invis tho
nimble mauve
They're quite safe
warm plinth
Also that 114.52 assumes you aren't pulling the void/marked sister in the waycrest room
strong forum
if you get left door you can skip alot
warm plinth
Yeah he was specifically asking for bottom right though
nimble mauve
I thought top right was worse
strong forum
mh.. well top right
oblique garnet
@trim talon There will never be global emotes
mortal brook
:sadbear:
potent anvil
:mwahi:
mortal brook
mwahi has an emote 🗞️
ionic fern
👀
rapid belfry
Devouring Maggots in wm doesn't bolster right?
full cloud
The WoWhead guide says this about Nullification Dynamo: This provides spell damage reduction, which isn't really a huge problem for Protection Warriors I'm not concerned with the actual efficacy of the essence, just curious about the thinking behind the wording. Aren't we one of the most vulnerable tanks to spell damage? I mean, I guess it depends on whether it's burst or continuous, do you think burst is what the writer had in mind?
warm plinth
I mean, I think prot being overly susceptible to magic is a misconception tbh. We have IP up a lot which works against magic damage. We have Demo Shout up a lot which works against magic damage
full cloud
Mmm, good point
flint wraith
With editc, gorecrusted, jes howler and razans eye - which setup to run in m+? 15's
Feel like edit is "must" - then more of eye or jes
ionic fern
For 15s it's definetly not a must. It all depends on the ilvl tho. For a more defensive setup you could run edict/rezans and for a more offensive one Rezans/Gore. This is assuming they are equal ilvl.
stone imp
You'd rarely run Jes in any scenario
strong forum
Edict isnt really as must have in 15s, depending on you and your groups skill and ilvl, since theyre not really dangerous for tanks.
If you feel the need for a defensive approach you can use it if you want. I personally would just run Gore / Rezan, as Mwahi stated.
and Jes i personally dont like at all.
full cloud
Why would you guys say Conflict and Strife is mentioned as one of the best M+ minors over Aegis? CnS only gives me 184 versa at max stacks. Whereas Aegis would give me more from 3 targets and potentially a lot more.
strong forum
cns r3 gives 55 per stack max 8 stacks
analog zinc
full cloud
Says 23 for me in game :/
slim pier
what's your heart level
full cloud
70
slim pier
what
full cloud
Interesting...
ionic fern
The K value change is something Blizzard does every season but it usually goes under the radar. It is done to keep DR's(armor,blocking,critical blocking in our case) in check - this means that at the start of the season enemies will hit EVERYONE harder but as we get higher item level gear from the new raid and m+ it will balance out to roughly current levels.
So no - warriors are not doomed.
potent anvil
Warriors are doomed
ionic fern
slim pier
Arms is doomed
warm plinth
Why did they have to talk about k values ffs
slim pier
potassium values
ionic fern
Nothing wrong with talking about it. It's just that majority of people are not aware that such a thing exists and are confused now.
warm plinth
That's why I'd rather they not talk about them. Because people will all of a sudden think that it matters to them when it didn't previously (well, it did, but they didn't know about it)
analog swift
but like
it's so frustrating
because it is a completely under the hood thing
that will change your playstyle
exactly
zero
warm plinth
Yeah, exactly lol
analog swift
maybe just mark it with "expert" or some bullshit
warm plinth
I don't think that'd matter tbh lol
Once the information is out there, people think it applies to them
Even if you say it doesn't
I think a k value write-up is a good idea but I don't think the start of a season is the time to do it, especially in the same breath as other scaling changes
analog swift
i mean
i find theorycrafting super interesting
but i legit dont know
why i would ever waste my time doing a write up on that
or like two sentences
"K value is going up
more damage
broken isle
Slow news day
warm plinth
Well, I meant more like a general write-up, not a write up specific to it going up for a tier
broken isle
Ran out of mounts
warm plinth
Like an article that explains what it is, what it affects, and then you could put in there somewhere that it goes up every tier/season
Instead of presenting it like hey, Blizz is doing 52.6% scaling on dungeons and also this will make you take 8% more damage (not what it says but that's how people will read it)
candid cove
And they used warriors as a reference point so people are going to tunnel vision them and ignore them.
strong forum
nobody will ignore prot warri cuz every streamer and their mother will play them again
but there will be stupid questions for a while
grim skiff
Conflict and strife r1 or aegis r1 for m+?
analog zinc
do you really have no other option
grim skiff
Using vop major and lucid in other minor (should have mentioned)
chilly brook
Idk what a k value write up would look like it'd literally only be like a paragraph at most
Hey there's this thing that exists that goes into the block formula, as we get more gear and higher ilvl blizz changes it every tier so we don't scale out of control, expect almost no change every tier
Outside of including the formula and an example that's literally all it'd be lol
Who talked about k values anyways? Blizz? @warm plinth
warm plinth
wowhead
chilly brook
Ah
warm plinth
chilly brook
I see
left trout
Isn't there the k value thing in the warrior advanced mythic + guide on wowhead?
Just with s2 values
warm plinth
Might be, idk.
gaunt dawn
"K" changes every season of content
the post just highlights it a bit more
was used primarily for TC before to calc one shot mechanics
grand spruce
Can someone please have a look at my armory and see if im doing right so far, stats and gearing wise? Im mostly trying to gear for m+. Link is https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/silvermoon/velhaara
graceful sundial
If your gear is ilvl>sec stats oriented then you are doing right.
grand spruce
with a socket
when i first got it, i thought it was going to be a terrible trinket. in use, its actually pretty good
wooden radish
just looking at blood mallet, its not great but its a great roll
grim skiff
Trade you gear
oblique garnet
@grand spruce hold up you have bis azerite at 450 but not higher than 415 shield ?
grand spruce
RNG. nuff said
grand spruce
ive tried but ive never seen one drop. and when it does, im not on my warr
what would be like the best shield to go for?
warm plinth
ML is technically the best stats but any shield that is higher than a 415 would be 10,000% better
There's not many secondaries on a shield anyway. The block is what's important
grand spruce
okay
marsh silo
430 vial, or 430 block?
warm plinth
block
neat roost
what's up with all the high prot warriors using lucid major lately?
warm plinth
warm plinth
Yikes
neat roost
so it's just for defensive purpose?
sick sentinel
warm plinth
It's for a very specific defensive purpose that doesn't apply to 99.99% of players
tl;dr: you should use Vision major
neat roost
so it's just cuz naowh is playing with padding paladin?
warm plinth
Basically. He can take care of himself while his healer bursts
neat roost
so assuming rdruid/mw it's not worth?
warm plinth
Probably not.
grand spruce
lucid minor with Aegis or dynamo + aegis?
analog zinc
i dont really agree with that logic ghash
warm plinth
What logic
analog zinc
"use lucid major to survive while your hpal uses their cooldown on damage"
analog zinc
that doesn't sound right
gimme a min i'm about to pull a boss i'll argue the point after
grand spruce
what i have available. Primarily m+
analog zinc
yeah i just dont see how its good "because hpal"
warm plinth
Get R3 strife though when you can
I mean, no other healer can burst like a holy paladin can in AoE
analog zinc
hpal's CDs are 1m40, you're not gonna delay wings for 20s & you'd only be able to lucid every other wings
hpal does the highest healing in the game with wings & is also putting out massive dps at the same time
the thing about hpal is, you can do crazy healing during wings, the issue is you need to be able to survive outside of wings
that's the hard part
warm plinth
Ok
analog zinc
lucid major might be a good CD to use outside of wings
but its not used "so your healer doesn't have to heal you so they can focus on damage"
warm plinth
Go watch the stream dude. I'm not the guy using it, so if you want to argue you can argue with him and tell him he's doing it wrong
analog zinc
what's his stream?
warm plinth
https://www.twitch.tv/naowh I believe; he's hosting someone else right now though
oblique garnet
🤔
oblique garnet
What piece is this
lilac bough
those are boots. Im pretty sure "Pes" mean feet
manic scaffold
whats your major essence? im new to tanking :/
visions of perfection is probably the best
warm plinth
For Mythic+, Vision is the best
surreal oak
@strong forum 435 is better
strong forum
yes
surreal oak
ok ;pp
chilly brook
@sick sentinel @warm plinth was that panda warrior comment from when I was still panda?
chilly brook
and reduced fall damage?
sick sentinel
yeah what happens if i dismount mid air and forget to heroic leap
i live thats what
chilly brook
And a racial that's basically an extra interrupt
sick sentinel
easy
sick sentinel
and you sleep on your stomach
sick sentinel
they are hard to forget
chilly brook
it's hard to forget the omega chad's that are pandas
brazen lion
Can someone explain getting C&S so i get 1600 raiting then just do 1 arena and cap conq each week?
strong forum
you only need to reach the rating once, then you can cap conquest without having to do arena again
broken isle
- Reach 1600 arena rating in either 2v2 or 3v3
- Cap conquest for 3 weeks to get 15 tokens (I did it primarily through WQ Assaults & pvp islands)
brazen lion
Now I'm 1600 in PvP It doesnt matter if I lose raiting right?
mortal brook
I dont recommend losing rating
brazen lion
Does it Decay
sick sentinel
Only thing that decays is brain activity from actually doing pvp
undone sun
For once I agree with hawgz
sick sentinel
I feel like we should agree more
undone sun
feelings are irrelevant
void sundial
I was wondering if I can get some tips
ionic fern
On what more precisely?
hushed creek
How warriors gonna handle tank crusher from obelisk in 8.3? Wowhead says we're screwed abit ,but is it time to swap major essence and get Azeroth's Undying Gift ?
sharp night
it says right there you can run away or los it
ionic fern
I'm fairly sure it will just re-cast until it successfully finishes the cast.
sharp night
just keep running away i guess
it gets cast every 10 sec so
no tank is gonna be able to handle it except monks if it just gets recast until success
ionic fern
From what i've heard from people who have done PTR testing is that he re-casts it until he's successful in the cast.
So if you out range him he'll just re-cast instantly as soon as you're in range.
nimble mauve
Weird question. Does anybody else's camera snap weird after an intercept? It will pretty much have me facing backwards sometimes. It's very disorienting.
ionic fern
Can't say i've had that happen to me.
nimble mauve
Hmm. Maybe it's holding right click or something while I intercept. I'll have to do some testing with it.
next plover
I cannot see Pillar B continuing without some nerf of sorts
Like they already nerfed in the same day when they first added it in
Went from 400% to 300%
So I imagine they will tweak it further
brittle owl
obv
as it is, bdk and prot warr will have serious issues with it
either they nerf the damage, or make it so you can avoid it by los/outranging
ionic fern
Twitter
vapid ibex
Is running lucid major for m+ good?
next plover
I guess I figure they'll tweak something since its kind of odd to let it go to stagger but not have a tiny bit of blocking ability
Curious also as to if this is partly due to lower gear for a +15 in that test
Like I figure armor still applies is own reduction
And the increase in gear (and thus HP, armor etc) would prob balance out a bit
ionic fern
@vapid ibex it can be good IF you play around it and maximise the rage gain during it while avoiding overcapping.
If done correctly it can give you 2 Avatars in a row - mostly useful in higher keys since pulls take longer.
It's a lot trickier to pull off than just playing with VoP.
vapid ibex
So how would you maximize it correctly then? I'd like to try it out
ionic fern
Can do stuff like this. Avatar uptime in m+ 4 last minutes.
vapid ibex
Do u pop avatar before lucid ? Or after
ionic fern
Avatar itself gives you 20 rage so you pop Lucid then Avatar into the extra rage.
I do NOT advice this build if you're new to the class tho.
vapid ibex
My issue is I don't have rank 3 essences except flame. But I have rank 2 visions strife lucid. Idk what major to run. Been using vop but even running it as a minor is good enough
snow osprey
hey folks! friends asked me to offtank m. zaqul today for them as their offtank is away for holidays. I looked through PoV, tanknontes, but dont really see anything I'm supposed to do :D
as far as I can see its just... taunt any random spawned adds, stick close to the main tank, that's all ....
is that really it?
or am I missing something?
ionic fern
Who's the main tank tho? Brm?
snow osprey
brm, ye
RL says "just stick to the tank and taunt adds" and I'm a bit skeptical 😄 sounds underwhelming for 7th boss in mythic
ionic fern
Not much to do as co-tank jep.
brittle owl
consider the fact that the ot role is sorta redundant on zaq as well
plenty of guilds doing the solo tank strat
snow osprey
thanks) I'm a bit confused about the last phase. I'm supposd to tank the image of zaqul or something like that... am I supposed to press some raid-action-button and go into other realm to do so? or is it available in "normal" realm?
graceful sundial
Most of you will be on fear realm, so all will see this add. You or the brm can take it, it's not a big deal
snow osprey
problem is I never really tanked him even in normal :D
on a few heroic runs I did I was always a fury warrior and never switched any realms, just whirlwind + rampage all day for purple logs :D
thus, I'm not getting this concept of switching realms at all 😦
I guess I'll have to figure it when raid starts 😄
graceful sundial
There will be three summoners. Your raid must enter into the fear realm and kill two out of three. One must be alive because you will need to get out.
Meanwhile you do this, you avoid tentacles/kill little adds/survive on dreads/etc
snow osprey
I see. that makes sense. I'm worried about Psychotic Split
he will spawn "Fear" and "Delirium" versions of himself. so there would be.. 3 of them? how do 2 tanks handle 3 "bosses" ?
or dps in delirium realm just nukes delirium version?
graceful sundial
Yes, dps handle the delirium one
left hatch
I'm not sure why the tank buster obelisk is such a huge fucking deal
it hits for less than 500k on a 15 with no reduction
topped off, even without something like LS thats smaller than our current health pool
doesn't seem to be the 'end of the world itll always 1-shot tanks' everyone is freaking out about
sweet summit
The fact that its like once every 10 seconds is the scary part
Depends on how much hp it has
left hatch
which is doubtful to make live
sweet summit
And how fast we can blow it up
left hatch
the part i see ppl freaking out is it being a "one-shot mechanic"
and have extrapolated it to be everything from "warriors and Dk's will be useless" to "monks will be the only viable dungeon tank"
which is silly
sweet summit
Same, people do like to exaggerate
left hatch
assuming scaling for the obelisks is on par with the rest of the dungeon
sharp night
why wouldn't it
left hatch
emmisaries had their own scaling that wasn't as hefty
sharp night
that's not true
emissaries scale at exactly the same rate as the rest of the dungeon
left hatch
their health scaled slower than everything else i thought
left hatch
ah thats it
sharp night
it's 10% per level, every level
left hatch
yah mb on that
next plover
There is also the thing about taking 100% extra damage as well
Meaning that you need to manage it lest you get stomped whilst being topped off
sharp night
so i don't think anyone is worried about doing a 15
sharp night
nah wowhead article just posted
says it's not reflectable
unless they were referring to only the damage portion
left hatch
i read it as damage portion
unless they changed this week
cause last it was still good to go
sweet summit
If it goes live as it is. this will be a 2nd zul, buy in every dungeon
We probably just get aggro and kite it til its dead idk
sharp night
but ya i don't think anyone concerned about it is saying it's gonna be a problem at 15, it's when you get to high key pushing warrior just suddenly drops off a cliff ifthat's true
cause there's no way you're gonna be able to tank anything above 20 if it's hitting for >800k every 10s
left hatch
which is why i highly doubt itll go live as is, they'll make time between casts longer, or lower health so its a dps race sorta situation
oh im not talking about the big brain competent ppl that run higher than 15's
im talking about the REEEEing masses who are quick to jump to the "XYZ is irrelevant" or "welp this is impossible now"
next plover
I think the biggest issue for me is its kind of unfair how a certain tank gets to use their mitigation and the rest of us just have to either eat it or run
left hatch
yah it being staggered seems an oversight
next plover
Like for me I wouldn't be opposed to it being an outright this will kill if you dun goof blow
sharp night
stagger is weird though, it works on environmental stuff like quaking
next plover
But like level the field a bit so we are all in the same boat
sharp night
which goes through every other reduction
left hatch
go back to oldschool 'if no active mitigation XYZ happens' sorta thing
i don't even remember the last time we had that as a mechanic
sweet summit
Ip absorbs quaking and shit
next plover
It's not like monks struggle on moving fast enough
next plover
Wait I though block still worked
sharp night
not on quaking
sharp night
AM checks were just a thing in a few legion dungeons, for whatever reason they stopped using them
next plover
But either way I suspect pillar B will get tuned some more
snow osprey
tankbuster's attack can be LoS'ed or outranged. its a 2sec cast with 20yd range
if you can find a pillar \ corner to dance around, it should be trivial
reminds me trash in Legion's court of stars. add you want to tank by the corner
facetanking him would be a pain, idd
but given the LoS / outrange portion of the spell \ skill , I think that facetanking is not intended way to handle it
sick sentinel
Who's the lowest APM tank?
vocal nimbus
sick sentinel
that's what i figured
slim pier
autism tanks
strong forum
I mean you have to stop pressing buttons otherwise you fuck up your midigation...
Imagine how fun that is
Literally wait until you get hit
Idk how that's fun
slim pier
Spoiler: it's not
obtuse marsh
so boys what's the deal, what tank i main for 8.3
slim pier
warrior
tame garden
🐻
strong forum
i literally just posted in vdh discord
"9.0 Tanks are removed from the game, healers tank now with healing"
brittle owl
ok boomer
obtuse marsh
tanking in bfa is really dogshit. imo S2 with reaping was really fun, waiting and see S4 but i don't think that gonna be insane. Legion was better, i played all tanks and tanking overall was great ( love bdk end legion )
neon tangle
@strong forum Not arguing that BDK is lower APM, but idk if pressing devastate really makes or breaks the warrior rotation
similarly, warrior also has to choose if/when to press SB
and other things
unkempt seal
how often should we be devestating anyways? with high haste i always feel like i have something else to push. feels like i only get 30 devestates a dungeon or something
strong forum
you hardly devastate
even in ST
we have enough buttons and haste to make up for it
whereas DK is extremely limited
GCD locked > not GCD locked
but thats just me apparently
neon tangle
you don't, my point is that being GCD locked or not doesn't make me like a rotation more or less