If you're doing void skips like that you still typically need shroud for the rest of the group I think. It's the kind of coordination I wouldn't expect to work well in pugs that aren't super high key.
#protection
woven venture
broken isle
And it may just be me, but if I'm trying to join a competent raiding guild, I'm generally looking for guilds with those fotm specs too.
grim skiff
Guilds that care about success, even if they are top 100, usually look for fotm comps too unless they got buddies playing memes
ionic fern
Most guilds even if they have fotm specs will still be stuck due to various different reasons like lack of knowledge from the raiders,no decent prepping for new tier,class knowledge etc.
sick sentinel
My guild is always stuck due to lack of knowledge from me tbh
broken isle
I mean fotm has lost all meaning to me. It either means "this spec will do more dps/hps than others if its played super well" or "this spec will allow u to do great with very little effort"
sick sentinel
b r e w m a s t e r
fierce urchin
Yeh idk. I feel like its super subjective. Because the general state of FOTM for tanks in my opinion at least is greatly dependent on player skill. Like Brewmaster is easier to play so as a recommended class its at the top for new tanks and has less room for error. But i don't truly believe that necessarily means that Warrior or VDH are worse than BRM, just more difficult to play at a high level.
You can also kind of create a false FOTM in which Warrior will be superior to BRM in season 4. Thus allowing you to progress higher faster, gear more quickly, and delete whatever small percentage gap there may have been between the actual raw data that separates the two classes.
grim skiff
I would never wanna tank on another class (maybe Druid) but prot war is my first love ❤️
chilly brook
@fierce urchin look I love prot
But brm literally has been top tier just because of how they changed stagger back in Legion after WoD
Their position in raid is just a symptom of the class change that happened to simplify it
novel ruin
As tanks, do y'all still use S for backpedaling like 2nd boss of Atal? Or do you not backpedal at all and just strafe backwards?
chilly brook
^
novel ruin
Do you have issues backpedaling when playing as dps due to memory?
novel ruin
For most players it is recommended to not have a key bound for backwards and to just use the mouse for running/turning since going forwards is faster than backwards.
chilly brook
As much as everyone likes to talk bad about s keying it has its place
analog zinc
Brew is absolutely gonna be top tier, Veng I think will be the closest to them
chilly brook
Moving like literally a half a meter in game is going to be about the same either backpedaling or strafing
You just gotta know when to use it and when not to
novel ruin
I guess
analog zinc
i backpedal a lot as a tank
its for when you want to move a mob slowly & in a very controlled manner
chilly brook
People that tell others to unbind s are dumb
analog zinc
backpedalling for dps & healers is dumb, but there's lots of legitimate reasons to do so as a tank
btw does anyone know a quicker way to buy & mail benethic?
chilly brook
It hardly matters as long as they're not backpedaling when they should be strafing
near ivy
and potentially get hit in the back
if you want to kite, and you backpedal, you are dumb
chilly brook
To me it's an extreme "solution" to a non issue
near ivy
but slight repositions, i dont see a reason to not backpedal
novel ruin
That makes sense
analog zinc
that depends on what your intentions are with kiting
are you kiting the mob so that you can move into the next pack faster?
or are you kiting to not take damage
like I would backpedal kite that mob on the first bridge of KR
just to get him to die closer to the slime room so we dont have to spend a lot of time travelling after he dies
novel ruin
Muscle memory will have to be relearned lol. Spent the last year playing with no S key as a DPS
distant crystal
i am pro unbinding turn keys tho
cause that's prime keybind real estate
and you never need to keyboard turn
yes, even for stack/move edict!
novel ruin
Oh yeah, I have A and D as strafe left/right then turn the camera with the mouse.
analog zinc
the only time i've found keyboard turning to be useful is if you're trying to heal people
can't use the mouse to heal people if you're trying to turn as well
distant crystal
don't generally need to turn while healing
near ivy
stack move decree can be easily done with mouse & w
distant crystal
you can strafe around and mouseover heal
novel ruin
I wish Blizzard would make controllers a viable way to play :/
distant crystal
i do sometimes find myself running out of pad on stack/movve
but it's easy to just pick up and plop down
near ivy
why mouseover heal when you can just arena 1 2 3 your entire raid
new binds
raid 1 2 3 4 5 6 .... 19 20
analog zinc
dont think healers work like that anymore stara lol
maybe in classic you could do that
novel ruin
lol
chilly brook
@novel ruin even making a and d strafe honestly makes no sense since you can just strafe using those keys by holding down right click tho
plain notch
So me and a friend was talking about high end mythic keys, and we agreed conflict is the best major for that. What minors would you run though? You basically need lucid for more rage feeding into your anger management and also therefore into avatar. Vision also just gives more avatar, which syncs into the thunder clap kite.
The thing we got into then is; where does dynamo come into this? When you are at ranged, all dmg you will take is basically magic, but there is no spot for this, right?
plain notch
Is vision the best?
plain notch
Well, even for like 20s?
strong forum
what do you mean 20s
plain notch
Keys
plain notch
Uhh
strong forum
outside of very specific moments, you dont
near ivy
👀
sweet summit
you very much have to kite in keys from time to time
plain notch
I thought so too
novel ruin
@chilly brook I use an MMO mouse so it’s easier for me to use AWD for movement and turn with mouse when needed. Otherwise my mouse hand is pressing buttons.
plain notch
Not trying to discredit you or anything Nomeratur, but my friend and I are curious as to why you would say you don't kite in keys? Also, are you experienced in high keys? Know this might sound disrespectful, and I really appreciate your input nonetheless 🙂
grim skiff
Is the odd occasions where you kite and want cns better than always having vop in main slot? Might depend on key you’re pushing and Strat
Prob worth getting both ^^
strong forum
Like i said, CnS major is usable in high keys, the more commonly used Major is VoP cuz its considered the best cuz it gives you an average of +20% uptime on avatar ( not counting the CDR ).
You can use CnS, but more for the doubled vers than its "kiting" potential, which feeds into trinkets
sweet summit
VoP provides a lot of avatar uptime AKA damage and survival
CnS provides a shitton of vers AKA damage and survival (and a root as long as noone slows the mobs =>30%)
Lucid provides a shitton of rage regen and l e e c h AKA damage and survival
pick your poison
fierce urchin
why are you telling people not to kite on high keys omegalul?
strong forum
Lucid minor also provides 30% uptime on 380 vers, which isnt half bad
most used minors are aegis / lucid / cns
In case you dont use VoP major you use it as minor 100%
fierce urchin
taco tuesday it is
plain notch
Not using dynamo feels a bit weird to me though? Btw, good input, thanks for that 🙂
Or do you usually pull big enough for aegis to just be better than dynamo
strong forum
theres very little magic dmg in keys to justify Null Dynamo over the aforementioned essences
sweet summit
^
strong forum
Most Magic dmg can be avoided
outside of ML and WM i would advise against using Null since its DMG is pure ST or 100% split dmg
chilly brook
@novel ruin I use an mmo mouse too but what you're saying doesn't really make sense since you don't use your middle finger for any buttons on an mmo mouse 😛
near ivy
maybe i missed something but i dont understand why the middle finger specifically is relevant in this scenario
slim pier
I use it when someone annoys me
near ivy
and i do use my middle finger for two unconventional binds on my mmo mouse
mousewheel left and mousewheel right
novel ruin
@chilly brook True lol. All thumb. Don’t really need A not D for extra keykinds plus it helps me transition to play Overwatch or other Pc games
chilly brook
If you already turn with your mouse then you didn't need to rebind strafe to a and d it already is bound to that as long as you are holding down right click is what I was saying
Just rebind q and e to something useful
novel ruin
No
near ivy
i have a CHUNKY mouse
strong forum
ye i use my middle finger
novel ruin
I do. I have small hands and a big mouse
strong forum
for rightclick
strong forum
that just means youre a claw user Star
slim pier
I thought that was the norm
empty nacelle
im left handed, so my right click is my index
chilly brook
My g pro wireless is small af tho
near ivy
strong forum
na theres different "grips" on how to hold your mouse
near ivy
see the arrows on mousewheel
strong forum
everybody does it different
near ivy
they are binds
novel ruin
Pretty much exactly what I have Stratos
slim pier
No ring finger on right click is the SUPERIOR way
novel ruin
I never use the far right though
near ivy
this is a mouse specific thing
strong forum
near ivy
@novel ruin neither
chilly brook
@near ivy I have the same mouse but why dedicate a finger to it when you can just do it with either index or middle finger by a small movement?
strong forum
i would assume youre a claw Star
near ivy
im not claw
strong forum
mh
novel ruin
I don’t even use the middle buttons since I mess up and change my DPI lol
strong forum
guess its your mouse then
near ivy
im palm
slim pier
I'm fingertip
near ivy
i think that might be better for me playing fps
novel ruin
Palm for me
chilly brook
I'm a palm boi
novel ruin
Have small hands 😦
slim pier
My mouse is not that big for palm
chilly brook
Who arm aims because 400 dpi
strong forum
actually im mix of palm and fingertip
novel ruin
I wrist aim. 1600 dpi
slim pier
Doesn't matter
strong forum
i are confusion
chilly brook
I feel like I should try wrist aim
strong forum
im at 1800 dpi
slim pier
I aim with my elbow
novel ruin
You shouldn’t do wrist
strong forum
its too weird
novel ruin
Horrible habit
slim pier
Lmao my wrist has this weird thing
novel ruin
Especially if playing a high APM spec
slim pier
Like I've played games in a long time
strong forum
what does wrist have with apm to do
chilly brook
Wrist aim is just so much harder to be accurate with for the average person since wrist doesn't have as much fine motor control as arm for most people
slim pier
A scar
strong forum
:wat:
chilly brook
@novel ruin wrist is fine
slim pier
What
novel ruin
I’m not saying wrist is bad. Long term wise, if the goal is better aim, arm is the best way to go
near ivy
never really had the room for low dpi
slim pier
Are you telling me you're not aiming your thunder claps???
chilly brook
That's not entirely true
near ivy
so ive never arm aimed
chilly brook
Wrist isn't better or worse
near ivy
i think at this point i cant reverse the muscle memory
chilly brook
It's very person dependent
strong forum
my TC is bound to mouse movement
so i have to make a swirly everytime i do
big brain time
chilly brook
For mouse people arm will be better but there are people who will perform better with wrist
novel ruin
@chilly brook longterm wise Arm is superior to Wrist due to tendon health.
slim pier
Wait there's a mouse movement bind
strong forum
no i macro'd it with razor synapse, clearly
im resting half my palm on my wrist rest
novel ruin
There are. But the average person isn’t going to try to mitigate those issues until they become issues
chilly brook
And arm can cause issues as well
oblique garnet
🤔
novel ruin
Over the long term for the average person, arm aiming will be healthier than wrist aiming.
strong forum
theres more movement in my arm picking up a cup than me using my mouse
slim pier
Lol
strong forum
so i think my tendons are fine
slim pier
My face right now is your avatar
strong forum
1800 dpi what can i tell you
novel ruin
Does WoW multiple mouse DPI with in-game sensitivity? I know Overwatch does.
novel ruin
Interesting
strong forum
pretty sure thats a "shooter only" thing
novel ruin
It may be. Maybe for RTS too
novel ruin
Do you think Blizzard ever does a WoW 2?
strong forum
na
chilly brook
Yes wow has mouse sensitivity
chilly brook
I've changed it before in game brother
chilly brook
I can't be asked to get up and go upstairs to find it currently watching the witcher
slim pier
Hmm
novel ruin
Fancy machine running WoW at 144 FPS
strong forum
😏
strong forum
ah
slim pier
And send the ss
slim pier
Yeah
chilly brook
slim pier
Imagine not using click to move
slim pier
That's s legion ss
chilly brook
Yep from Google
pure pond
click to move... didnt even no that was a thing. do people actually use that
distant crystal
are we talking left + right mouse or
that thing where you click the ground and your char runs to that spot
near ivy
theres a video of a guy timing a ML 20
clicking
so some rando scrub using click to move doesnt sound unrealistic when you understand that context
2:15 is really funny
pure pond
he doesnt actually click to move though his clicking spells
pure pond
ahh
but still kinda impressive maybe if his ui wasnt so spread it may help im not sure
clearly working for him
near ivy
1 example of it
pure pond
haven't watched the whole thing either ^^
near ivy
he is intentionally handicapping himself
distant crystal
i bet i could time a 20 playing with a steering wheel
if i put my mind to it
on a dh 😄
woven venture
So if I'm with a resto druid, what % of the overall healing in a mythic should I be doing with ignore pain and what not? I feel like I'm slacking hard right now and maybe I'm not utilizing IP as well as I should.
analog swift
warm plinth
That's not a % you should ever care about.
Did you keep Shield Block or Last Stand up as often as possible (when required)?
Did you cast Ignore Pain/Revenge enough to not overcap rage?
Then whatever you ended up with is fine.
oblique garnet
@warm plinth did you check out the vod yet
warm plinth
No sir
I went out to the new Gordon Ramsay restaurant that just opened in my city tonight and now I might go into a coma
oblique garnet
Need to check it out when im home and maybe ill upload it to yt
Gonna do some basic analyzing etc in what i could have done better and how the group could have played better etc
undone sun
woven venture
Yeah, my priorities have been to keep up shield block as much as possible, ignore pain when I have the rage, and using revenge when it's free or if I'm going to cap rage if I don't. Seems like I'm doing what I'm supposed to generally so I'll just keep working on it.
sick sentinel
Good work buddy
ripe mason
Can I kite as Protection at all outside of shockwave + possible leap?
Disregarding other people's cooldowns such as ring of peace and slows.
Just from my own kit, what options do I have for kiting?
warm plinth
You have Shield Block, which prevents you from having to kite in the first place.
Other than that, Shockwave, Leap, Thunder Clap slow
ripe mason
Sure, but for necrotic SB doesn't work, does it?
warm plinth
You can take a lot of necrotic stacks before you need to kite, provided you're playing properly.
I usually don't reset stacks until like 40 stacks
ripe mason
Damn, people really are beasts when it comes to necrotic.
Idk, I tend to have to reset at around 20.
warm plinth
It can vary. You should reset based on the amount of damage you're taking. But make sure you're doing proper rotation and utilizing cooldowns correctly before you assume you just need to kite more.
Like if I'm gonna be at 20% HP by the time I'm at 40 stacks even with proper play, I would reset sooner.
ripe mason
Well I have more than 22% haste, so I can do triple SB into LS, other than that I use IP to prevent capping, and if I'm about to cap both on IP and rage I use Revenge.
That's about it when it comes to what I'm thinking about when tanking.
(Outside of the obvious stuff)
warm plinth
Are you using Avatar and Demo Shout on CD?
warm plinth
Do you have a low ilevel shield?
warm plinth
And what level keys are you doing?
ripe mason
And the 440 from Orgozoa.
I just aim for a +10 each week.
Next season I'm aiming for a +15 each week.
(Yes I'm aware it's a lot more difficult than the current season)
warm plinth
Yeah idk man. You might wanna record/log your runs and see what you're missing. No way you should be having issues with damage intake in a +10 to the point where you have to reset necrotic at 20 stacks
ripe mason
Well it's not that I have to reset then. It's just around there I get a bit uncomfortable with the lack of incoming healing.
warm plinth
I would base it on where your health is at more than what kind of healing you're getting. Like I said earlier, if I'm gonna be near death at 40 stacks, I would reset sooner. But usually your health should be fine unless you're taking a lot of magic damage
ripe mason
Well, since it's not necrotic this week I'd have to wait until it is.
I'll try to do some 10s today, see if I can spot anything unusual.
warm plinth
Yeah, I'm a big fan of logging my runs so I can check on ability usage and things like that
warm plinth
You can log any combat you want, even a target dummy
warm plinth
Feel free to post the logs in here if you want feedback from others too
warm plinth
Eh tbh for prot we just have you post in here lol
ripe mason
Chill. I like it.
warm plinth
Doesn't really matter. As long as you're using your highest ilevel shit, that's what matters
ripe mason
Do I still prioritize Ilvl over sockets?
onyx vessel
Im too shit at prot i take way to much dmg
ripe mason
I got a ring before that was 10 ilvls higher than my previous one, but didn't have a socket.
warm plinth
Most of the time yeah
You can sacrifice for sockets on rings and a tiny bit on small budget armor pieces (like cape/bracers)
onyx vessel
Or the disc priest i had was shit
warm plinth
Talking about this week specifically madjay?
warm plinth
Wasn't last week bursting?
onyx vessel
Yup
warm plinth
I'm shocked they were actually playing disc in keys lol
I don't like disc healers as a warrior for either bursting or grievous
warm plinth
Well
I would prefer to have 5 instant stacks than roll stacks from 2 up to 5 or some shit
warm plinth
But disc relies heavily on having something to hit for bursting, since shadowmend by itself can't really keep up
So you have to keep pulling or they can't really counter it very well
And then you add on to that the fact that most disc priests blow, and it's not a great recipe
onyx vessel
Disc unforgiving as fk
warm plinth
Yeah it's incredibly proactive
onyx vessel
Most healers are too reactive
warm plinth
If you're not ready for the damage, it's almost impossible to recover
onyx vessel
Hard to find good pug healers
warm plinth
Gotta get you a group man. It's such a difference
onyx vessel
I do my weekly
warm plinth
I pugged all through Legion and at the start of BFA (when I came back in early S2). Never made it higher than like 1600 I think in Legion
ripe mason
Might be a stupid question but do Prot warriors have any special "builds"? As in Paladins having the glimmer build, or assassination having to build around AOE or ST.
warm plinth
And now I'm 2100
ripe mason
My highest priority in M+ is just having a deafening and triple bastion.
warm plinth
Not really. Other than trying to parse in raids, we basically use the same exact build for everything
ripe mason
Yeah but BFI is generally preferred in raids over Bastion.
warm plinth
What essences do you have btw Queroth? Just out of curiosity
onyx vessel
Work fine
warm plinth
BoF?
warm plinth
Oh
ripe mason
Brace for impact
warm plinth
Well, traits in raids for DPS depend a lot on your group and how fast you kill the boss. Same with the couple different talent builds you see on WCL
ripe mason
Main essence is rank 3 vision, minors I'm working toward Mechagon shield essence and Strife
onyx vessel
Does bom peices have bfl
warm plinth
For M+, null is really nothing special
Go for strife and then use either lucid or sphere for your other one
ripe mason
I think I've had one piece have both once.
warm plinth
Aegis is okay for big pulls but my issue with it is that it's basically useless in low/single target situations
ripe mason
Trinkets are good though.
430 coral and inkpod.
Though there's probably better for M+ than Inkpod.
onyx vessel
Coral is meh for m+
ripe mason
Or maybe not since inkpod damages every enemy.
onyx vessel
Urchin and edicts all the way
warm plinth
I would agree that coral is kinda meh
warm plinth
Oh so you have urchin+inkpod?
ripe mason
Yeah
warm plinth
That's better haha
ripe mason
I keep mixing them up
warm plinth
Urchin is really good
onyx vessel
Free healing
ripe mason
Also, I've got one reckless flurry in my traits.
warm plinth
Inkpod isn't bad but tbh on your level of keys unless your DPS is just awful, things probably aren't living long enough to get much damage out of it
onyx vessel
Solid
ripe mason
Feels good when you pop that triple bastion
Is there another Trinket I could replace inkpod with?
warm plinth
Butcher's block if you can get one would be solid
distant crystal
it literally doesn't matter how long things live for inkpod's dmg
warm plinth
Or you could just do higher keys
distant crystal
unless you're pairing it with coral
warm plinth
wdym? You get more stacks when things live longer
onyx vessel
Coral in m+ zzz
distant crystal
you get more dmg procs from any trinket when things live longer
bigger hit longer fight, doesn't make a difference
sick sentinel
what is the best warrior class?
onyx vessel
Glad
sick sentinel
I'm currently arms and am boosting my character to lvl 120. Should I stay on arms or should I swap?
warm plinth
I mean, there's a limit though lol. Too short and it becomes useless
ripe mason
Depends on what you like
ripe mason
If you like arms then play arms
distant crystal
literally makes no difference
if you fight a mob for 10 seconds or 100 seconds
you'll get the same dps from inkpod on average
sick sentinel
I just thought guilds need a tank warrior more.
ripe mason
Unless you're pushing high, spec isn't as important as how much you enjoy and know how to play something.
distant crystal
it's just a dmg proc trinket that happens to delay all of its dmg until 30%
sick sentinel
oh, gotcha. Arms it is then.
warm plinth
Pretty sure if you get zero procs before the mob hits 30%, that's useless 🤔
ripe mason
Does the loot I get from the weekly come from the item pool of the dungeons I did or can it drop anything?
distant crystal
never unequip until next tier imo
@ripe mason currently no, it's supposed to change to that next xpac i think
onyx vessel
You are starting shit for no reason use what you want
warm plinth
Yeah next expansion it changes to adapt to what dungeons you did most and some other shit
distant crystal
that inkpod is worse if things don't live long
warm plinth
And you get choices at the weekly chest rather than 1 set item
ripe mason
So for the moment it can drop anything.
warm plinth
Anything from any dungeon that can drop for your loot spec
ripe mason
Guess I've gotta start doing Manor in case I want that butcher.
onyx vessel
Whole dungeon inkpod will do 1% dmg
ripe mason
That seems very very low for me to believe.
onyx vessel
Ive used it in m+ as fury
distant crystal
i use it in every m+ as outlaw
onyx vessel
Shit does like 2%
onyx vessel
Outlaw tho this is prot
ripe mason
But you were talking fury
distant crystal
lmao
warm plinth
Waat didn't say anything about fury
onyx vessel
End of this argument
distant crystal
lol
warm plinth
I mean, it does more than 1% of my damage as a HDH, which means it would definitely do more than 1% of your damage as prot
distant crystal
be wrong, demand argument ovver
ripe mason
Veering away from the topic.
onyx vessel
Edicts over every inkpod
warm plinth
They're for completely different things
onyx vessel
More to pull more dps for whole group
warm plinth
You can't compare a defensive trinket to an offensive trinket; that makes no sense
onyx vessel
Heh
ripe mason
Doesn't edicts just block magical damage?
ripe mason
Oh, that's neat.
ripe mason
Yeah then I can see.
onyx vessel
Exept after 2nd boss in ml
warm plinth
Yeah, the value of it is that you can get it to stack really high and then it just refreshes at the high level
ripe mason
Don't know if I'd sacrifice an inkpod for it though when it comes to packs since I already have 100% SB uptime.
ripe mason
Would you consider it for 15s and upwards?
warm plinth
Probably like 18 and upward
ripe mason
Makes sense.
warm plinth
You could start using it lower than that if you wanted, but even at 18 I wouldn't call it required
ripe mason
What level key is that?
onyx vessel
10s
warm plinth
Yikes
onyx vessel
Cuz i dont push
warm plinth
That's the leader not being picky enough lol
ripe mason
Why did you have that rogue?
warm plinth
That's no bueno
onyx vessel
Lead playing alt didnt give a fuck
ripe mason
Then why did you not leave?
ripe mason
I just play with my guildies since I know what I can expect.
warm plinth
When I pugged I checked everyone's score before the key even started haha
onyx vessel
I do too
warm plinth
If someone was undergeared or had like no score, I was out of there
onyx vessel
Shaman was over 1k
ripe mason
Well obviously you didn't since you stayed for the first boss.
Also, sorry, I veered off topic.
sick sentinel
Ghash if you saw me in a pug would I get an invite
onyx vessel
Lol
sick sentinel
Yes
warm plinth
Then no
distant crystal
would invite then pass lead and peace out
warm plinth
I don't need your elitism hurting my feelers
ripe mason
What were we talking about again? I think we were debating trinkets or something?
onyx vessel
Or the others
onyx vessel
Should join limit
undone sun
👀
sick sentinel
I dont hate myself enough to play this game at a high level
Nor do I possess the brain power
undone sun
We could have told you that
onyx vessel
Not best player just a boy with no life
warm plinth
If I can do this game at a high level, anyone can
onyx vessel
warm plinth
I guess that assumes you consider 18-20 M+ high level though
sick sentinel
I do one +12 weekly is that high level
warm plinth
I'm sure I could do mythic raiding if I wanted to put in the time but well, I don't
onyx vessel
Same
sick sentinel
God same
sick sentinel
I prefer 3/8 gimplode
ripe mason
I'd like to get into mythic raiding.
distant crystal
i did 4x 4/8M pugs on tuesday
ripe mason
Finding the time for it is the difficult part though.
sick sentinel
Find two night team
ripe mason
Gotten 3 curves consecutively so far.
distant crystal
ripe mason
So I'm comfortable doing heroic progress.
onyx vessel
Same
ripe mason
I've got mythic Ashvane under my belt since I had to help my guild out once.
distant crystal
so they're pretty solid
ripe mason
Tanked it.
sick sentinel
Mythic raiding is a bunch of depressed alcoholics change my mind
onyx vessel
Yup
distant crystal
some of us are depressed potheads tyvm
warm plinth
+7
sick sentinel
gets hit by boss
warm plinth
+18
onyx vessel
As a monk
sick sentinel
yells at healer when I die
onyx vessel
Yup
ripe mason
I remember when I did heroic Orgozoa for the first time.
It was before I was actually decent with prot.
warm plinth
And tbh it was probably only that different because I was memeing with Fel Barrage in the 7
sick sentinel
I was just an add goblin on orgo
ripe mason
"Hey, this damage isn't so bad"
Guildie: "Yeah he deals less damage the more he hits you"
Me: drops SB for one second
My health: 👋
sick sentinel
Should see mythic
ripe mason
Oneshot from full health.
warm plinth
lulll
sick sentinel
You love to see a monk forget to brew and get smoked
onyx vessel
1m to the dick
ripe mason
Actually I can probably survive mythic.
My health doesn't move at all on heroic anymore.
onyx vessel
Cuz he hits 2× the dmg in mythic
ripe mason
My guild leader tanks it as prot paladin.
ripe mason
If he drops Shield of the Righteous for one second, he gets completely one shot from over 600k HP
onyx vessel
Heh
ripe mason
Well not fully one shot but Orgozoa definitely makes his cheeks tomato red.
ripe mason
At how many stacks was it 400k and at what difficulty?
sick sentinel
My favorite is when I am add tanking mythic and I am blacked out thunder clapping and I pull boss aggro and get smoked from behind like a cheap hooker
ripe mason
Ah yeah
onyx vessel
1st hit
ripe mason
That's expected
Yeah expected
Probably one of the best analogies I've heard recently, Hawgz.
But I think I could survive mythic Orgozoa though.
sick sentinel
Easy boss
ripe mason
Since I can easily have 100% uptime of SB while I'm actively tanking him.
Triple SB into LS
That's 18+15 = 33s of SB uptime.
Since I can survive double barnicle smash from Ashvane on mythic, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be too difficult.
sick sentinel
These are easy bosses, at this point in tier pigs can get some of them
ripe mason
Let me be proud of my Mythic Ashvane achievement 😦
I'll log and record my M+ runs for today. See if I can get something specific out of the logs.
sick sentinel
Logs in m+ stink of piss
ripe mason
Anything to improve myself.
warm plinth
Still useful for making sure you're using abilities properly if you know how to look at them
exotic spoke
So
I'm changing my predictions
about visions on week 1
I predict that people will clear ALL zones in a single run of Visions on week one
sick sentinel
I predict that ghash will never achieve a TF prism
warm plinth
OOOOOF
ripe mason
What do you mean by runs in Vision?
exotic spoke
And on our fourth run we foudn we could do 4 of the 5 zones. We've further optimized it by pushing it back and farming some stuff prior to go in, and adding in extra runs, by the end of the fifth or sixth run I think we may be able to do a full clear.
warm plinth
Visions as in the new thing you have to do to level your legendary cloak
Not like the essence
exotic spoke
@ripe mason The new veature comign out in 8.3. Visions of Nzoth
Thats kinda a challenge mode
ripe mason
You mean the tower thing that changes every week?
exotic spoke
Yeah
ripe mason
Cool
left hatch
no the tower thing is Tower of the Damned in 9.0
exotic spoke
Same kinda thing though
warm plinth
Yeah I would say this is probably like a test drive of that though
left hatch
but similar concept, limited amount of entries a week and pretty critical to prog
sick sentinel
I have literally not read a single thing about 8.3
Someone give me a paragraph of what i need to know
exotic spoke
Fuck bitches get paid
ripe mason
Watch Preach's videos on 8.3
He's covered basically most that there is to know for the moment.
Best classes, changes, issues, etc.
sick sentinel
That’s a lot of effort
ripe mason
Well Preach is one of the best people I know when it comes to the game overall.
sick sentinel
Have you met ghash
upper kindle
wow does lucid major give a lot of self healing or something, wacthing a prot warrior do a +21 with no healer and people said he can survive cause of the big leech from lucid
distant crystal
it gives like 1k leech
upper kindle
wow thats lik 26 percent leech
distant crystal
1021 at neck lvl 70
never actually run it on protwarr
but it's p sick on fire mage :p can't die during combust
upper kindle
i know you take vision but wow that looks fun getting so much leech
abstract meteor
alchemist trinket worth it over Howler / Pocket-Sized with red haste and yellow haste vers
distant crystal
there's more than 1 red haste
distant crystal
the downside one is better
warm plinth
😄
distant crystal
but ya alch is prob better
abstract meteor
alch over howler too?
so if say I get a raid trinket would I run raid trinket + alch
distant crystal
i wouldn't switch to alch just for the trinket
if that's what you're asking
but if you're alch yeah rock it
p good free 440+s trinket
abstract meteor
yeye I have alch
obtuse marsh
I used lucid major last week on motherlode +18 tyra, during Rixxa heal died i literally solo tanked the boss with 20% hp with lucid i spammed ignore pain
flint wraith
brittle folio
Engi + alchemy works best for me
ionic fern
Lucid is fun but you have to plan keys around it as it's a 2min CD. It's also dungeon/affix healer related as in can you do big pulls(bolatering),does your healer actually do something useful(dps,utility) when you pop Lucid or does he continue spam healing you pointlessly etc
And on top of that it's really easy to mess up using Lucid as in lose a ton of rage (AM benefits) due to not expecting/not paying attention to the amount of rage flowing in.
brittle owl
just play boogie woogie left hand during it 👌
tiny ice
What dungeons would you set edicts to magic?
brittle owl
ML last 2 bosses, SotS after second boss, maybe waycrest after killing raal/treeboy
oblique garnet
Wouldnt change to magic at all in wcm tbh
brittle owl
hence the maybe
stoic forge
430 eddict vs 415 prism who wins ?
tiny ice
Thanks!
exotic spoke
Sup prot qtpies
ionic fern
👋
exotic spoke
How’s your weekend going Mwahi?
brittle folio
Guys did Shadow of Zul is such pain in the ass for u aswell ? I was yesterday on 18+ and didnt expect such huge damage intake, any tips ?
exotic spoke
Yes Zul is the final boss in KR especially on fortified weeks
For a little bit longer if you have a DH you can skip it, and that’s what I recommend.
Aside from the skip, which is being fixed, you’re going to want to pop cooldowns / possibly heroism, if you have a durable melee they can take a hit, and then kite.
Zul has a max range and you can dip in and out of the range to minimize damage
brittle owl
saving lust for him on fort is almost mandatory. even on tyr on high enough keys
exotic spoke
So, visions, a lot of fun
ionic fern
It's going fine - just doing weeklies for now. And yours?
exotic spoke
All things considered I can’t complain. Have to work today and tomorrow for end of year but that’s how it goes sometimes
strong forum
it do be like that sometime
exotic spoke
Yup, they’re doing a full inventory for the first time in almost a decade. So it’s all hands on deck to get everything cleaned up before Monday. Then, some people (thankfully not me this time) have to come in on Monday and do it
And while yes, it’s the first time in almost a decade for a full inventory, we cycle count each location every quarter and our inventory is pretty accurate
exotic spoke
Our inventory accuracy, based on cycle counts, is about 99.998%. If lur inventory is off by more than 0.005% we have issues. And not very good issues
strong forum
rip
exotic spoke
So we’re still in the range that’s good. But systems aren’t matching up because they aren’t real-time and before we swap to real time we want to have everything match up
lilac bough
Hi all, should i use a Jes Howler 430 or a Gore-Crusted Butchers Block 440? (M+ content only mid keys 15s)
exotic spoke
I’d say gore
Crit is good for us and the added strength is nice. Plus it’s one less thing to worry about
lilac bough
tks Riki
exotic spoke
You’re welcome
wooden radish
@exotic spoke hello.
exotic spoke
@wooden radish did you dye your hair?
warm plinth
😂
wooden radish
Yes
warm plinth
It looks nice
wooden radish
Thanks
exotic spoke
You’re welcome
I’m a sad Riki though
Wanted to do more test runs of the new visions and continue fine tuning our path / plan for launch week
wooden radish
But ?
warm plinth
His group abandoned him 😦
exotic spoke
Group can’t do it tonight due to schedules
warm plinth
:sadRoo:
exotic spoke
Nah - RL is more important. I can do it after 8/9 and they can do it before
It’s just we didn’t think of doing this until Thursday
So hard to change plans last minute.
We’re going to try and get a full clear of all events week 1
warm plinth
Stopped reading after "RL is more important" smh
exotic spoke
Thanks! Saving that to send to your GF
Originally I didn’t think we’d see many, if any, people doing a full clear week one. But after more testing and optimizations I think it’s more possible than I thought.
exotic spoke
It’s not that you’re finished with it Lincoln. It’s maximizing the corrupted mementos so we can start working on the masks
The trick is... don’t do more than 1 vision day one
random urchin
exotic spoke
You can get corrupted mementos outside of the major vision. So if you go in later in the week you can earn more of the ‘talents’ before the first one which means you get further, thus earning more mementos, and so on.
Basically you snowball faster
autumn pendant
🏂
wooden radish
The only reason to min max mementos is for sockets
exotic spoke
And, most importantly, you have to be successful each time. If you’re successful you get cloak upgrades which makes it easier. You can get to 25% reduction after third or fourth run if you don’t fail one - I think it’s third
Yes Lincoln, and that’s why we’re minmaxing them. So we can get more mementos faster and get more sockets
wooden radish
How many mementos is a full clear
exotic spoke
Not sure. We haven’t done it yet. We think we can but we need more testing.
Because we have to wait and get one more run this week on our most recent characters, which is possible once the invasions reset
We’re looking at 5, possibly 6, runs week one. If that’s true then run 6 should be easily doable. Run five is possible but we may play it safe
wooden radish
I can solo 2 areas and final boss with the base cloak, no talents and 445 tep gear.
You’re capped at 3 runs a week
How are you doing 6
Are you cheating
exotic spoke
Yeah we did that as a group Lincoln.
If you’re not cheating you’re not trying
Jk
You get like 3 extra runs week 1
The first one to go in and find out
wooden radish
3 extra?
exotic spoke
The second one from an item you get doing the opening quest
The third from unlocking the talent system
Yes
wooden radish
Hmm
exotic spoke
We did four last night on fresh characters, was off of the 5th by like 2k. Doing the dailies each day + the mini visions + the second assault easily gets us the 5th with a ton to spare
The 6th is a stretch but potentially possible
And also subject to change - cause PTR
empty nacelle
are you just going for the boss each time?
exotic spoke
No
wooden radish
How many mementos was that
exotic spoke
First one, literally the very first one without the cloak, we go in, get about 75 extra mementos, and then kill.
After we get the cloak we start doing 2 zones minimum
wooden radish
When I did them on ptr, I got 200-300
exotic spoke
Um, I think in one night, with one scuffed run from testing something - where we missed out on the boss by 6%, we got a total of about 3k for the four runs each
Maybe 2500? I have to check when I get home around 3
Our last run, old town + dwarf was scuffed and we still recovered in time. We ended up getting almost 1k from that one
exotic spoke
What?
exotic spoke
I think there’s a multiplier for using a mask
And if you do the full zone it’s probably closer to 1750 based what we saw last night
Also
wooden radish
1750 per sector?
exotic spoke
There are rare mobs in there. We didn’t kill it but I wonder how many a rare mob gives
1750 per full run at base. And we just unlocked the ability to see and loot chests. So maybe they have a bunch
empty nacelle
interesting
exotic spoke
The one we saw was a gnome that patrolled along the outside of the dwarven district (I think it was dwarven) with 3 bots
If he was close to the bots he would heal them a lot and they all took a shit ton less damage.
Like; unkillable if grouped up
For our current gear
lilac bough
Im currently using Vision as Major, Aegis and Lucid as minors, but i see a lot of higher warriors on raider.io using Nullification instead of lucid. Is that better for M+ or certain dungeons?
ionic fern
Nullification is a really-really nieche pick in m+.
exotic spoke
^^
ionic fern
Due to majority of the damage being physical in m+ it's almost never worth running it in most dungeons. Things where it could find uses would be ML HIGH (and i mean 20+) tyrannical keys for the 2 last bosses for example.
limber pagoda
is haste cap still at 20%?
ionic fern
There is no haste cap.
exotic spoke
No, there is no attainable haste cap
limber pagoda
i mean more of a soft cap where i should get haste anymore
exotic spoke
There may be a point where you decide that you need more of another stat instead of haste but nothing hard and fast
Basically, no cap (soft or otherwise) that’s attainable
limber pagoda
ok
warm plinth
When was there ever a 20% haste cap o_O
ripe mason
So I don't have my C&S essence yet, but I did get my nullification dynamo just now.
Minors I'm using Lucid and Anima
Lucid is R2 and Anima is R3, what's better to replace with dynamo first?
limber pagoda
i notice that alot of the top tanks normally have their haste around 19-20%
exotic spoke
Don’t use anima as a minor
ripe mason
But the extra 40k HP is so nice
exotic spoke
That’s because we usually are using the highest item level pieces.m we can . We want haste - but all of our stats are good @limber pagoda
@ripe mason it’s really not worth the minor slot.
ripe mason
Well, how good is Lucid minor?
exotic spoke
Vision as a major, lucid, aegis, cns, sphere as solid defensive options for m+
Nullification isn’t that good in m+
ripe mason
Sphere seems great for kiting
exotic spoke
From icy veins guide:
Lucid is pretty strong for us and has a lot of synergy with our build
ripe mason
Really? I've heard from others to use Nullification for raids instead of Lucid.
Not nullification
C&S
I'm tired, sorry.
exotic spoke
That set up is defensively oriented
ripe mason
What's the best damage oriented build?
exotic spoke
In raids most tanks tend to go offensive and try to help push damage
ripe mason
Yeah that's what I'm trying to do for our heroic fun runs.
exotic spoke
Depends on the fight, fight length, etc. I think for me it was CoF major, vision minor and null minor
limber pagoda
im using that same but replace null with C&S
ripe mason
Yeah what's Null doing in a damage build?
exotic spoke
Null is an easy 2k dps just for existing in TEP
you reliably proc it on pretty much every fight
ripe mason
Isn't it just a shield?
ripe mason
Oh, I guess it changes then.
exotic spoke
When the shield breaks it does damage equal to the shield split amongst all nearby targets
ripe mason
Well I think coming 8.3 I'll be more focused on progression.
So to begin with, defensive essences.
Later on I'll switch over to offensive.
ripe mason
Why?
exotic spoke
You gain most of your survivability by proper play, cooldown usage, and positioning.
However, if I can help my raid do more damage we may be able to push phases faster, Skip some mechanics, help make things line up more easily, reduce fight length (which means less risk / bad rng / healers running out of mana)
You have to balance things and talk with your healers and evaluate - but j tend to start offensively and scale back as necessary when things become apparent / consistent issues
ripe mason
Okay, so what essences will you be running?
exotic spoke
I’ll sim before raid but probably CoF, vision, CnS, null, in some combination and maybe one of the new ones - if I need corruption reduction
CoF as major
exotic spoke
Hence the sim :). And will probably swap
left hatch
^
exotic spoke
Have a ton of azerite pieces. A full defensive set up. A full single target set up. Going to find a good aoe oriented build and set it up and then call it a day in terms of prep I live
ripe mason
How I'll eventually become a really good warrior from where I am is beyond me but it'll happen eventually 
left hatch
if you want the easy answer thatll get you to good performance
exotic spoke
Practice - that’s how it happens
exotic spoke
And never stop trying to learn and evaluate what you can improve. There’s always something you can do better
left hatch
some combo of that will give you good performance
and won't drive you crazy min maxing
after that you can worry about swapping something out here and there to optimize
exotic spoke
What.... me... min max? I’m definitely not going through the opening quest line on PTR again and again just so my group can practice how we will maximize our performance in Visions of N’Zoth..
ripe mason
Got that
exotic spoke
You saw nothing. What @left hatch said
left hatch
and should be really easy in nyalotha because every peace has BoM
ripe mason
Also got a Reckless Flurry.
left hatch
i saw those deafening crabs @exotic spoke (;
exotic spoke
Lies and slander
left hatch
reckless flurry is exclusively for raid st dps
ripe mason
Tf does ST mean?
exotic spoke
Single target
left hatch
single target
left hatch
tbh i wouldnt worry about Reckless Flurry rn, EP is over and Nyalotha is gonna be a lot of aoe
better to focus on aoe traits for rn
ripe mason
Is there anything else to use than that though?
Are there traits that give me AOE damage?
Outside of DC
exotic spoke
^^
left hatch
you don't want to stack DC because you get more aoe dps out of stat procs now
since the nerf to our Thunderclap talent
exotic spoke
It’s why we’re pretty good in m+. Our defensive build also really helps pump dps
Three bastion of might, 2 meticulous scheming, 1 deafening crash - the dream
ripe mason
I don't even have 1 meticulous
left hatch
i had to specific buy mine
exotic spoke
There are really only two pieces of I remember correctly
Ashvanes cuirass and kraken shoulders
exotic spoke
And a great helm, I assume still our best helm for m+, is also from the vendor - abyssal malevolence
ripe mason
There's a mythic+ vendor? You mean the guy next to the transmogifier?
left hatch
yeh
exotic spoke
Yeah
limber pagoda
ashvane chest dont give both BoM and DC
left hatch
it def does
because im wearing it
wait
no you rite
it gives MS
the DC comes from helm
limber pagoda
Ashvane Warden's Cuirass?
exotic spoke
Ashvane wardens cuirass for BoM and meticulous scheming
left hatch
^
exotic spoke
Helm has dc
left hatch
you can get the helm off radiance for BoM and DC
exotic spoke
Abyssal malevolence or the one from TEP
Abyssal malevolence is from the Residum vendor - and just edged out the radiance helm. So we’re still looking good for next season in terms of azerite pieces
ripe mason
I'm a little confused right now since I'm not finding any Ashvane named gear pieces at the azerite vendor, nor on Ashvane herself.
God I'm blind
left hatch
Ashvane Warden Cuirrass
ripe mason
May or may not have just woken up after a nap after being awake for over 24h
left hatch
you only want 1 DC
ripe mason
I mean, I can buy the specific 455 Ashvane chest.
Wait, doesn't it get converted into silver soon enough?
left hatch
yup
exotic spoke
Yup
ripe mason
yoink
limber pagoda
but by stacking it would help right?
left hatch
100% specific buy Ashvane chest or Kraken pauldrons
exotic spoke
On the fourteenth I believe
left hatch
no.
exotic spoke
@limber pagoda not as much any more. Things like Meticulous Scheming end up being better overall
limber pagoda
Oh
left hatch
the only stacking aspect of DC is the damage component, which gets outscaled by flat statprocs
limber pagoda
Oh
distant crystal
triple bom triple dc was the aoe damage play before the avatar nerf
and when reaping was a thing
left hatch
specifically the Unstoppable Force nerf from 100% bonus to 30%
distant crystal
the good ol days 😦
left hatch
imagine how dummy thicc our damage would be if UF lasted for Visions essence uptime
distant crystal
hmm
actually a 2nd DC is beating a 2nd metic for me
5 target patchwerk 1.5min
oblique garnet
Probably last time i checked the sims also didnt trigger MS 100% of the time
primal crypt
distant crystal
i'll ravage u
exotic spoke
I think I just caught autism
