Yeh I mean my choices are not really going to affect the kill in a significant way, I'm just stressing on it lol
#protection
crystal dirge
azure hare
So i am kinda new to warrior tanking but i love it since it is fastpaced etc which i love but i need some help with defensive cds in dungeons and specificly trash packs.. Do i use ignore pain on cd? And how else do i use the defensive cds? i guess shield wall on cd too or?
ionic fern
Have you read through the guides in #268491842637660160 protection section? @azure hare
Those pretty much answer the general questions.
mental scarab
How many stacks do you take from ashara? 28+ huuuuurts 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
lilac bough
Quick question .. Should i sacrifice a 450 shoulder (https://www.wowhead.com/item=159455/pauldrons-of-the-horned-horror&bonus=4817:1512&azerite-powers=1:441:440:21:84:13) in order to try to get a 435 with BoM? since i have no BoM pieces
warm plinth
No, the only trait worth sacrificing item level for is the first Deafening Crash
lilac bough
thanks
frosty ridge
@mental scarab probably got blue ward stacks not soaked, usually that's the reason if it hurts at 28
limber pagoda
So if BOM and DC on same ring, which should I go for?
ionic fern
If you don't have 1 DC already then go for DC. Otherwise BoM.
distant crystal
so i played around with arcane heart in some keys last night
prob inflated a bit cause teeming but not as bad as i was expecting
erm the "20% uptime on omnipotence" message failed to send cause of my potato internet
thorn venture
Hi, Im ilvl 422 its enough to go M+10?
warm plinth
Yes
sick sentinel
Depends, are you good enough to do a +10 in general
left hatch
At that ilvl you should be able to handle +15's with a competent group
your skill and your groups permitting
If you're asking if 422 is high enough to be ACCEPTED into pug groups for 10's.... thats kinda a crapshoot
distant crystal
i like to answer that based on the whole group being similarly geared
and idk about 5 422 peeps pushing 15s
left hatch
some ppl wont accept you unless you're stupid overgeared and FOTM class
true, i was just answering for him as a prot
mental scarab
Azshara sucks big time balls O_O
gaunt dawn
Pretty chill fight actually
super structured
but most people dont want to learn the structure until its farm 😢
stoic pilot
I wanted to tank it but couldn’t find a guild with a tank position on alliance 
stoic pilot
Lmao fair point
mental scarab
maybe its chilled with the right ppl
but we are progressing for the second week now
stoic pilot
We on p4 prog and I just went fury. At least I get to potentially tank next tier, as either 2nd tank or 3rd tank fights
It’s monkaS going into a raid group without knowing how to play fury with no prior azshara exp outside of vids
mental scarab
xD
oblique garnet
@gaunt dawn 
Take that back sir.
gaunt dawn
it is tho
gaunt dawn
its awful for healers and dps
for tanks its whatever
you just AFK for 20s in p2
all other phases youre doing something
stoic pilot
Kinda like zaqul, I really enjoyed that fight as tank but heard dps was meh for it
gaunt dawn
i enjoyed zaqul more as dps
oblique garnet
zaqul depends alot on the tactic you do
oblique garnet
The afk parts on azshara as tank are just boring because the debuff should disappear faster you end up afk for way too long imo
mental scarab
zaqul allllll days over the week for i was oftank and and smashed THUNDERCLAP ALL NIGHT LONG
😄
stoic pilot
I was main tanking it and calling out safe spots and that kept me engaged enough that I was having fun
mental scarab
of tank was like m+
stoic pilot
Yeah I can imagine
mental scarab
fun fun
oblique garnet
p2 and once in p4
gaunt dawn
mental scarab
olive sparrow
can u notice the effect from the wrists of mechagon dungeon?
just got them on my twink
warm plinth
Not really. Probably just macro them to something
chilly brook
@orchid raptor did any of that help at all?
@stoic pilot no clue but I'd assume in general our avatar cd will be reduced a fair amount with the increase in haste and how ITF scales with haste
warm plinth
It's .3% per neck level @stoic pilot so it'll be 25.5% at 85 neck
stoic pilot
Oh that’s nifty ty ty
Assuming they round up? Or do they actually do decimals in cd reduction calculation
chilly brook
decimals would be my guess
warm plinth
It's actually decimals. Like right now I have a 20.1% reduction at 67 neck
stoic pilot
Oh interesting
I guess that makes sense given that’d 2 neck levels extra early on I guess
warm plinth
Likely the tooltip would be rounded though
distant crystal
it should round to the nearest second
chilly brook
They've had decimals in game for a long time in regards to stats and talents etc.
distant crystal
but % will be decimals, no?
warm plinth
Yeah, the actual CD will probably be rounded
So like, if you did it exact, my Ava CD would be 71.91 CD base, but my tooltip says 1.2 minutes (which is 72 seconds)
stoic pilot
So with max neck it should be a little over a min cd
That should be pretty fun with vision uptime increase buff
warm plinth
Yeah, a minute and 7 seconds
stoic pilot
Im actually so stoked for next patch
Considering a 1h drops from first boss and the shield is a boe drop
stoic pilot
It’s kinda nice that you can get a few pieces you want and then not have to worry about it anymore
distant crystal
i just hope corruption forging is a 1off
and then they go back to no forging at all
stoic pilot
I got omega lucky with gear early on though so I can’t complain
distant crystal
same, i've been on the good end of titanforging quite a bit, still happy to see it go
stoic pilot
3x BoM 2x ms 1x dc and 2x 455 / 450 socketed rings the first month lul
strong forum
TF being gone you can actually be happy about getting pieces
distant crystal
see discord icon 🙂
stoic pilot
Has anyone tried out the new raid trinkets?
warm plinth
It'll be higher than 40%. Right now I can get like a 38 sec CD on Avatar with a 72 second CD with proper play. That's like what, 52.6% uptime if I'm mathing right?
Assuming you use it on CD
strong forum
Right now I'm at 60% avatar uptime in dungeons
warm plinth
And that's not counting Avatar procs from the major either
stoic pilot
I think I’m around 55% but I also don’t use it every time on cd if it’s near the end of a pull
warm plinth
So that's a 34 sec reduction off my base CD. With a 67 sec base CD at 85, that's 33 seconds CD or 58.8% uptime before procs. Pretty nuts
stoic pilot
Man that’s going to be nuts
warm plinth
Yeah we'll probably be getting like 70% or near that in the patch with the increased CDR and the increased proc rate
stoic pilot
Reminds me of legion vengeance with the antorus 4 set and kiljaeden trinket
That was an absolute blast
Really looking forward to next patch lol
warm plinth
Keep in mind too my testing was actually on a DPS dummy so I wasn't getting rage from being hit either
That would affect it some too
stoic pilot
I wonder if we’ll be rocking edict urchin next patch or be using m+ / raid dps trinkets
That torment one looked nice
warm plinth
Well, guess it depends on how the new trinkets are. Since remember we can't forge edicts/urchin to the new ilevel cap
chilly brook
unless new trinkets suck I don't think we'll still be using them
warm plinth
455 will still be the max for them
chilly brook
The ilvl jump will be pretty big
stoic pilot
Yeah that’s what I’m hoping for
warm plinth
Nice for PvP @distant crystal 😂
stoic pilot
I’d really like to run butchers block + rezans week one and just not have to feel behind
warm plinth
What level keys do you do?
stoic pilot
It literally took me until two weeks ago to get an urchin and it’s pretty stupid how good it is
I stopped pushing earlier on but 20s-22
distant crystal
btw how do i turn off details initializing data on login
i just logged into my warrior hoping to scope some info from that UR run, and I could see the meters on login but they cleared immediately :||
stoic pilot
I run with a disc so having defensive trinkets feels like a legit game changer since no ironbark every pull
warm plinth
Err, idk. Mine don't clear that I'm aware of
autumn pendant
What you guys normally run in m + as essences nowdays
warm plinth
Vision major, C&S and either Lucid/Sphere minor
distant crystal
i'm too lazy for C&S
chilly brook
visions major, conflict and crucible minor
stoic pilot
I use visions / aegis / conflict for most of my keys
autumn pendant
thanks
chilly brook
aegis is booty
distant crystal
vision major, sphere/aegis minors
stoic pilot
Swapping aegis for crucible on TD / KR
distant crystal
you're booty >:|
chilly brook
it comes out as less damage than conflict
distant crystal
warrior is low on my list of toons to get conflict on 😮
fire mage still needs it, and DH will prob get it before warr too
stoic pilot
Tfw you have a 450 getti and you’re not abusing arena with it
warm plinth
You can just like
stoic pilot
Shame shame
warm plinth
Do it all at once though
chilly brook
find a healer buddy and do 2s as arms
warm plinth
Literally just get to 1400 and cap conquest for 5 weeks. Easiest thing ever
distant crystal
true maybe i should just go arms with my sporepod and getti
chilly brook
you literally just pve your opponent to death
warm plinth
I did 3s as prot 😄
stoic pilot
Just run sporepods/ pocket comp device if you have the healin card from mecha
distant crystal
hmmmmmmmm
stoic pilot
Rip lol
warm plinth
@distant crystal This maybe? The "Erase Charts" on the right?
distant crystal
yeah i just found that, unchecked both of those and cranked it up to 25 segments
warm plinth
👍
distant crystal
i was wanting to see my HPS for that teeming dervish pull
orchid raptor
@chilly brook havent checked yet, weekly clear ep m
tomorrow ill give you some newbie feedback 😄
pulsar mortar
Can someone help me better understand when to use Spell Reflect, Rallying Cry, Shield Block? Those are the ones I have the biggest issue with.
well Shield Block.. just when ik im about to take mad damage.
but if there's any tips I am unsure of 😛
warm plinth
Shield Block is whenever you're about to take any blockable damage, not just high damage.
oblique garnet
^
warm plinth
Spell Reflect should be used any time you're taking magic damage unless there's a specific spell you want to reflect.
warm plinth
And Rallying Cry tbh I forget exists most of the time lul, but it's good for like...if Dire Ritual is about to go off
Or some other high group damage that's gonna drop people low
Shield Wall I usually use to fill in gaps of Shield Block/Last Stand
Can use it for any high damage scenario though if needed. It has a fairly short CD with Anger Management so don't underutilize it just to hold it for something else
pulsar mortar
Yeah I've got Anger Management.
sick sentinel
Yeah I find that over using shield wall is better than under using
vague badge
How good are Bears in comparison to warriors ? I heard that they were quite strong in Legion, or was it WoD?
undone sun
Strong in legion, yeah
warm plinth
They were strong like beginning-mid Legion. BDK and VDH took over once the rework in like 7.2 happened. They're not garbage but not sure there's really any comparison to a warrior at this stage.
undone sun
Kind of strong by default during NH
tame garden
Bear has a bit more utility. Warrior wins in every other category
vague badge
Kk. I still remember bears as those 1 Million hp monster in MoP I think :D and they always seemed funny, but I guess warrior is just way superior
And we will get thunderfury, soooo
warm plinth
Poor Speg, admitting his own inferiority 😦
undone sun
Gotta stay factual even if it hurts
tame garden
:sadbear:
undone sun
:sadbear:
grand drum
Good ol days when incarn+rots+luffa+ thrash obliterated entire raid groups
spice yacht
!essences
I see top warriors are using conflict and strife while icy veins tells me to use vop
so which one should I use
Im 444ilvl and getting into tanking 16ish keys
warm plinth
bOTH
spice yacht
as a major?
warm plinth
Vision major, C&S minor
warm plinth
The most likely reason they're running C&S major is because they're doing big pulls and need the extra vers to survive. As well as being able to potentially kite without actually having to stop DPSing via the root. It's not something you have to worry about, even at level 20 keys
undone sun
I wouldn't base your builds on top anyways
spice yacht
but I guess I should just roll with vop for now
warm plinth
Trust me, you don't need to run C&S major. VoP will serve you just fine.
undone sun
For any category
warm plinth
We have no idea why top warriors use what they use half the time. That's how shit like the leech meme comes into being
spice yacht
and what for 2nd minor?
warm plinth
Sphere or Lucid typically
spice yacht
well I have neither as of now so what would you reccomend me to get for more survivability
Im guessing sphere
warm plinth
Both are pretty well-rounded essences. Guess it's more what you feel like doing. You can get r1 sphere in 1 day if you don't mind PvPing
And there's not a huge amount of pressure to get additional ranks on that one either, since you get the vast majority of the benefit on the 1st rank
warm plinth
Grats
final wave
(New Here) I know the FAQ says to ignore stat distribution and go for the most total, but I straight up have 2-4% Versatility (depending on trinket) at 430 ilvl. Should I gimp my ilvl at all to raise that up to 8-10% again or should I not be concerned?
final compass
what wep enchant should I be using?
warm plinth
Force Multiplier
final compass
Thank you. I'm getting back in to the warrior in the first time in forever so going to have a few questions
final wave
Thanks so much @undone sun
left hatch
@final wave what addon is that for your equipment panel 😮
final wave
@left hatch "Narcissus"
left hatch
oooh tyty
sick sentinel
Haven’t had the chance to be toxic today
ionic fern
Don't start now.
sick sentinel
But
ionic fern
🇳 🇴
ionic fern
sick sentinel
🏃
distant crystal
getting that today has inspired me to put on my 450 getti
and that
and do arms arenas for CNS r3
so i can put aegis on the shelf
left hatch
once you have 1600 do i need to do an arena per week to get my 5? or can i just conquest cap elsewhere
and never touch arenas again
exotic spoke
So ML this week
exotic spoke
Sure lol
It wasn’t too too bad until the last three pulls. One shot Rixxa and then we got cocky (already over time by a few seconds) and uh
Yeah
chilly brook
@ionic fern hey shadowlands has come
chilly brook
Nah it's not
exotic spoke
On last boss for like 20 minutes with several death runs back
chilly brook
Just die
ionic fern
Also, why did you pull something after Rixxa @exotic spoke ?
chilly brook
You'll be there
ionic fern
That's toxic Griff
exotic spoke
We do the first pack after her
exotic spoke
This week because of how teeming worked out and to let us have less shit kicking our asses as we ran up in a 21
chilly brook
So then you should see that the shadowlands are already here they have been since vanilla 🙃
ionic fern
I did a +11 this week and called it.
exotic spoke
Had like 73% trash before first boss lol. Used our third hero on boss 1
ionic fern
😂
exotic spoke
We wanted 20s next week. Well we timed UR 20 after saying 1 and done.
ionic fern
What is it next week even?
exotic spoke
Not sure.
Better than this week in all likelihood
This week wasn’t bad depending on the key / level. Shut just took forever to die
sharp night
@left hatch @distant crystal you don't need to do any arena once you have rating, you will always get the c&s items no matter what as long as you cap
winning a game just boosts the gear drops you get from the weekly chest
sick sentinel
I recently started playing arms
I just run around pressing hamstring and /farting in arena
distant crystal
🤔 you sure about that @sharp night
sharp night
yes
distant crystal
i could've swore you had to "upgrade" your cache to get the extra cns items
distant crystal
well i guess my project tomorrow is go ahead and get 1k on mage/warr/dh 😮
sharp night
i did it on all 12 of my chars, 4 at at ime
distant crystal
and then think about getting 1600 on some of them next 3 weeks :p
sharp night
and couldn't be bothered to arena after getting rating
got my conq by battle for naz weekly/looting chests/doing random bgs for bote/sphere
sharp night
you don't need to push rating for a badge unless you're going for 2400 or something
after 10 conq caps the reward jumps to 430
so you're guaranteed at least a 430 badge
even 1800 rating only gets you a 435 from weekly cache
frosty ridge
@distant crystal might as well go 1400, since you don't lose rating with losses until that point
steep shuttle
quick one
to move around quicker in keys as prot
do you guys use bear tartare ever?
or is there something better?
ionic fern
Nope - never.
Why would you need that? in most dungeons the packs are close enough together that you can just leap/charge right onto next one and in things like FH you can just mount up and run.
strong forum
Bear tartare Was a thing in legion for tmog runs, but now it's beyond nerfed to what. 10%? In legion it was 70% :(
Also, giga pointless, movementspeed doesn't safe increase your dungeon clear speed. Proper pull execution does
exotic spoke
Morning Prot chat
tame garden
:xmasbear:
exotic spoke
Awww adorable
analog swift
Morning riki
exotic spoke
How goes it?
brittle owl
but it's evening
sick sentinel
Get out of here bear scum
brittle owl
^
sand egret
Hate crime ^
brittle owl
no u
sand egret
ok boomer
ionic fern
👋
warm plinth
👋
exotic spoke
Hi Mwahi
cosmic cape
what do yall do for gems 120 st 80 str and then haste or just 120 and haste or what
im primarily i high damage tank so idk if just crit or haste would be better than a second str
exotic spoke
Two main stat and then haste for survivability
If you’re only doing dps (which I would only do for raid) then just sim. But for m+ I’d absolutely go 2 mainstat then haste
sick sentinel
Imagine having more than two sockets where that is an option
What a blessed and privileged wow experience you have had
tame garden
Imagine having less than 8 sockets in almost-2020
sick sentinel
I don’t need to hear it from you bear
Getting sockets requires logging on
Logging on requires me to throw away my will to live
tame garden
Consider unsubbing if you dont enjoy playing the game
sick sentinel
Consider confronting me with your problem in hand to hand combat bear turd
tame garden
sick sentinel
And I used every global to hamstring him while a mage slowly gobbled up his health bar
Coward tried to run away so he got the storm bolt
exotic spoke
The savagery from Speg
tame garden
No chill for hawgz
olive sparrow
the bear should have just killed the mage
sick sentinel
He can’t cause he is a bear. Bears do not kill
We Had a healer too. We were a damn hunting party
And now I wipe my feet on my bear skin rug
olive sparrow
bear is a healer in itself
sick sentinel
Bear should have considered healing more
sand egret
imagine dying as bear in wpvp
brisk ferry
in-fur-ior
warm plinth
😬
sick sentinel
I don’t like that @brisk ferry was lurking around for in-fur-ior lmao
brisk ferry
I do what I can for the needy
warm plinth
Thank you!
sick sentinel
🤪
bronze acorn
anyone can help me why im dying so fast as prot war eventhat im ilvl 444?
warm plinth
How long have you been tanking as a warrior? And what level keys are you doing?
bronze acorn
ive done it in the past, i main fury. but everyone is complaining about me taking damage. Its from 13+
where the problem begins
warm plinth
Most likely you're putting too much emphasis on Ignore Pain and not enough on Shield Block.
Could also be not using Avatar/Demo Shout on CD like you should be.
bronze acorn
i got 20crit, 23 haste, and 32 mastery ,6 vers thats a decent build yeah?
well i lack with shieldblock i guess 😛
warm plinth
Stats don't really matter; ilevel is your survivability
bronze acorn
oh so i should just mx everything with ilvl ?
warm plinth
Yeah, don't worry about stats unless it's two items of the same item level. Trinket effects matter more than ilevel though, so you don't wanna automatically go ilevel on those.
bronze acorn
btw should you kite much as warrior? when defensives is on cd?
warm plinth
There aren't a lot of times you should have to kite unless you just have god-awful DPS
The only time I kite is necrotic week if I get 30-40 stacks and feel like I need to
bronze acorn
so when i charge into a big pack for example first 3 pack on freehold. I use avatar shieldwall and demoralazing shout is that a waste or?
should i use shieldblock instead
left hatch
shieldwall isn't a stand-in for block
SB->SB->SB->LS->SB with ava and demo on cd should be sufficient
warm plinth
First 3 pack on FH I would not use Shield Wall until your first Avatar is down
left hatch
esp below 15+'s
warm plinth
Assuming you have Bastion
left hatch
bloodsport is meh
warm plinth
But yeah you can have like 40 seconds of Shield Block uptime easily if you follow the rotation that Morrison said
left hatch
as is self-reliance
left hatch
like ... basically anything else is better than self-reliance, even the flat speed one
your essences also are a bit yikes
CnS is an amazing minor
VoP should be the default major slot
left hatch
and Undying Gift is... meh kinda awful
exotic spoke
Honestly, your question about first three packs of freehold shows the issue.
You need to use shield block more. Avatar + shieldblock (if you have BoM) is a huge defensive CD. You’ll take very little damage if it’s blockable
Shield wall should be used to cover gaps in shield block or when you know you’re going to take a lot of damage
You should work on getting VoP rank 3
left hatch
im inclined to say yes, the Major from CnS is a niche thing when you know yo'ull be kiting a lot
exotic spoke
VoP rank 3 is almost always my major. It is a very niche situation where I don’t use it
warm plinth
I would use R1 VoP over C&S as a major, though there's literally no reason to only have R1 VoP unless you already ran Mecha this week.
left hatch
for M+ most ppl run VoP major, and then some combination of Lucid, CnS, Null (niche/situational), Sphere
bronze acorn
what is r1?
exotic spoke
Aegis is also good for a third minor
warm plinth
Rank 1
left hatch
oh and Aeigs, but msot ppl swap out aegis when they get r3 of CnS
sand egret
obligatory reminder that back-hits are a very real thing and can definitely happen in that first FH pack as you're getting tossed.
left hatch
it has next to no value onbosses, so esp on tyranical weeks its lackluster compared to other choices
warm plinth
Or if you're not pulling it properly (e.g. charging to the back pack through the middle one)
sand egret
best way to get gobbled up
warm plinth
Yep
bronze acorn
icy veins and wowhead are those good sites to look at rotation?
and more infpo
info*
left hatch
I see yo'ure also enchanting for crit, might be thats a stay-over from fury but unless you're looking to max aoe dps haste is the way to go
exotic spoke
IMo, your biggest take away (from what I heard) should be to use shield block more - it’s or mitigation whereas ignore pain is more damage smoothing, equip your highest item level gear you can, and get rank 3 of VoP
left hatch
look at the FAQ channel listed 3 channels abvoe (: has links to the guides that the big brains here keep updated
so you know its reliable
exotic spoke
Icy veins is the go to (like Morrison said it’s in the FAQ Channel) Thanks @ionic fern !
bronze acorn
btw one more question
got my gore trinket but got a merthas fang or whatever its called 450
should i use it over the one i have now or?
left hatch
merthas fang is a meme trinket
can't block with it channeling
so its for AOE padding
exotic spoke
What Ilvl is gore? And also what are your trinket options
bronze acorn
445 gore, 450 fan
warm plinth
Use gore for sure
exotic spoke
Gore
bronze acorn
got inkpod and coral 😛
left hatch
iv been using a combination of Inkpod, Gore and REzans 15's and below
exotic spoke
Any other trinkets?
left hatch
he has a 430 urchin
exotic spoke
Urchin and gore then IMo
left hatch
esp with the focus on survivability
exotic spoke
I don’t like urchin In keys that much. I don’t think inkpod is worth in low keys either
left hatch
try to get a rezans from AD and edict offa kings court
warm plinth
Yeah inkpod is better in higher keys when you have more time to build stacks
left hatch
Edict + urchin are the "op" full defence loadout
While rezans + block are just a really solid blend of output and def
bronze acorn
do you think i got gear for higher keys if i make rotations better?
warm plinth
Didn't you say you're like 444?
left hatch
at 444 for sure
exotic spoke
What’s your Ilvl?
bronze acorn
445.50 atm
warm plinth
That's high enough for like...anything
exotic spoke
Yeah - you can easily do 18+ if you get your rotation down and get a good group
bronze acorn
well cheers guy appreciate the help imma look over on the rotations now 😛
left hatch
and remember, you actualy asking / looking for help already makes you better than like 1/2 the playerbase (:
so good job
hollow sluice
I have 450 rezan's eye, 430 edict and 430 urchin. should i use eye over edict and urchin?
warm plinth
I'd use Rezan's+edict probably
exotic spoke
Eye is really good for us
warm plinth
You're really good for me ❤️
exotic spoke
Awww thanks qtpie
sand egret
ok boomer
exotic spoke
A bear is about to get shanked
broken isle
I keep losing threat to DH eye beaming even tho I have pretty decent gear. It's specifically DHs
Was told to save avatar for their cds but idk
ionic fern
If you charge->Clap->Revenge they shouldn't rip aggro.
Unless they eye beam INSTANTLY as you pull.
Then you just let them die and learn.
broken isle
They self heal thru it anyway lol
exotic spoke
Fuck saving Avatar for their CDs. Pop it every time it’s up
exotic spoke
That’s a them problem for not letting you hit them once or twice
broken isle
was just curious cuz no other dps I rly have a prob with
ionic fern
You won't have problems with DH's either as soon as they learn to wait like 2s.
exotic spoke
Don’t hit avatar and demo back to back
olive sparrow
I had a fire mage lately who precasted everything with trinket and combust
exotic spoke
Avatar clap demo clap
olive sparrow
that wasn't funny
ionic fern
It's even worse with memebeam.
Me: Charge in..half way
DPS: MEMEBEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
broken isle
Lol ty for advice I'll leave them for the wolves
ember flume
Whats our best way to gather multiple adds coming in from different locations? clap the biggest group and charge devastate to the stragglers > repeat?
broken isle
I do try to line-of-sight casters to bring them together and avoid some magic dmg but that has some probs too
ember flume
Ah ok gotcha. Thank you
exotic spoke
Can even clap, charge shield slam, taunt a third, leap taunt a fourth
broken isle
I rly should remember that leap resets taunt
ember flume
Learning to tank m+ in crap gear with peeps who have such a higher ilvl makes things a little sketchy on gathering multiple adds and keeping threat
sand egret
DH's are going to be particularly problematic since Eyebeam is a shitload of burst for a button and they will follow-up immediately with a Blade Dance + uber-hasted Memebeam.
after playing Havoc for a bit....yeah it's really easy to rip on pull
broken isle
I try to stun them hopefully I get threat after few secs
exotic spoke
It’s better to clap stun clap btw
Because shockwave doesn’t do as much damage.
Therefore not as much threat.
sand egret
that'll help. Just no way you're getting that much threat in a single clap, gonna need a couple to overtake that payload
exotic spoke
And also, you want to maximize your rage gen and that means maximing your clap casts
(And shield slams)
ember flume
Maybe a silly followup question to that, but is the priority to have shield block up before using shield slam always?
or not necessary if the damage is low
sand egret
i wouldn't couple the two, you'll end up getting into bad habits
exotic spoke
You should try to get shield block up as much as you can in m+ in almost every situation (last two bosses in ML are an exception)
But, it’s better to cast shield slam and get the rage than to wait a few seconds before you can shield block
You don’t want to waste Rage ever. It’s incredibly important to maximize rage
ember flume
gotcha. makes sense
sand egret
best to use them combined, but don't sacrifice either for it
ember flume
Thanks for the advice you guys. this tanking noob appreciates it
sick sentinel
You are all much better prot warriors than I
neon tangle
Lies, I'm here too
wooden radish
@exotic spoke hi
exotic spoke
@wooden radish hi. How was your weekend?
exotic spoke
Lucky you, I’m here for three more hours
wooden radish
that's a shame
exotic spoke
A damn shame indeed. But it’s almost time for a drink while I work
So you take the good with the bad and the bad with the scotch
gentle olive
Do you guys experience the same as i? I have alot of demon hunters who get mad at me because i lose aggro alot when they Eye beam and Fel Barrage i'm really struggeling to regain aggro i can only obtain it after they're done with whatever they do and this sometimes mean, when they're dead.
chilly brook
@gentle olive no I don't have any issue holding aggro against a DH
What kind of damage are they doing and what's your damage @gentle olive
gentle olive
Well i am only 420 and pull about 14k single target and trash 28 against their 55+
chilly brook
You should honestly probably be bursting pretty close to 50k
Assuming the pack is 6 or so mobs
Are you using avatar on pull?
chilly brook
There's your problem
Use avatar as often as possible unless the pack is about to die. If its about to die save it for the next pack
Are you using demoralizing shout everytime it's off cooldown?
gentle olive
I tend to save demoralizing shout for when i'm in trouble xD
chilly brook
It seems like you're most likely not playing the class properly
chilly brook
Not to mention you're hurting yourself defensively by not using it as soon as it's up
gentle olive
Still new to tanking, just went from blood DK that is very, "oh no i'm in trouble time to use CD's" to a class that have offensive defendsives
Its very diffrent
chilly brook
Less rage generated meaning less cooldown reduction and also less damage overall not mitigated because you're losing out on demoralizing shout casts
chilly brook
Well like I said I would recommend you check out the guides in #268491842637660160
gentle olive
Well i did take a breif look at it an concluded this is learning by doing 🙂
exotic spoke
also, they shouldn’t pop that shitnon pull. Need to give you two to three seconds
sand egret
Threat is just dps with a modifier. If they're popping their CDs and pushing their dps and you're holding your DPS cooldowns (Mainly Avatar in this case) then yeah, expect to get ripped off of.
chilly brook
@gentle olive there is an element of learning by doing in regards to prot but you've neglected to learn how to do basic things by not reading the guide. You don't have to do content as prot to learn that you need to use your cooldowns as soon as they're up pretty much.
analog swift
^^
We love to help people, but do us and yourself a favor and read the basic guides
vagrant flame
so the guide says you cast shield slam less in m+ compared to raids (re: azerite trait ranking in m+), but afaik you still want to cast it as often as possible for the rage (except clapping on pull)
-- do you prioritize clap > shield slam in m+ when you're fine on survivability and slam > clap when you need to be more defensive?
warm plinth
I prioritize clap over slam in multiple target scenarios and slam over clap in ST scenarios. Pretty much the only changes I make rotationally.
analog swift
yeah pretty much
um
probably
slam over clap outside of avatar
but that's a bit feely craft
other thing is, and this doesn't include procs
if you miss 1 t clap gcd
vagrant flame
alrighty..right now i'm still a little on the squishy side (~425) so i feel like i really need to focus on staying alive moreso than doing damage for right now
analog swift
nah
that's all rotational
survivability tbh barely matters slam vs. clap
survivability is all about block+last stand and hitting avatar and demo on cd
shockwave and kiting for a bit during mitigation drops
warm plinth
Yeah, you won't even really notice a difference in survival based on whether you prioritize slam or clap. But don't delay the cast of either of them if you can help it (you can). That will hurt you in the long run.
vagrant flame
sure. just sometimes i see they're both up and when i'm low on rage i'm like - uhhh
sick sentinel
More damage = more rage = more survival very ez clap
vagrant flame
but..more damage != more rage? it's just 5 rage per clap or 15 per slam
warm plinth
If both are up and you're low on rage and you really need that rage, then press Slam regardless
But I mean worst case you're gonna cast it the next global so it shouldn't be a life-altering decision or anything
cloud hound
left hatch
ilvl>haste>crit for M+
grizzled glen
Does that apply to socketed items as well with lower ilvl?
near ivy
slot dependant
left hatch
rings and low budget items like wrists usually socket is better
i usually just sim it, but simming is for dps purposes only
lean flame
What weak auras do you guys use for m+?
warm plinth
Block tracker in #268491842637660160 and interrupt/CD trackers for my group
left hatch
i have an automarker for dungeons
puts markers on anything that has a scary interreruptable on pulls
exotic spoke
To quote hawgz “weak aura - weak player”
So I use kick tracker
undone sun
I must be the weakest player, my ui was 99% WA because every other element was hidden
hollow bolt
I like the auto marker one
sick sentinel
I knew I smelled weakness in here
Came to Investigate
Talking about weak auras
Pathetic
mortal brook
oh shit is that the real Hawgz??
mortal brook
🗞️
gloomy sapphire
hey guys. new warri-tank here. When I look at the Talents Unstoppable Force vs Best Served Cold, it looks like Best Served Cold should provide me with an overall higher DPS-increase than Unstoppable Force. If we ignore the survivability-aspect of Unstoppable Force, is Best Served Cold a better dps talent?
left hatch
Revenge is a much smaller part of your dps overall, and you cast it much less often
and it has no synergy with anything else
notably Vop/Booming Voice / Anger Managements -> very high uptimes of Avatar
for reference in a 16 Motherload i had 212 casts of Revenge for 5.54M damage, and 662 of Thunderclap for 22.67M
left hatch
strong forum
How the fuck
Do you think best served cold could even remotely compete with UF
You press revenge so rarely, not to mention UF is quadruple dps increase of TC because of the CD reduction alone
left hatch
if you really wanna napkin math it from those numbers avatar has 55% uptime
given UF doubles your Clapping, its safe to say 2/3's of my claps were avatar buffed claps
strong forum
Revenge hits for what, 10k? And you expect a 25% buff of 10k to be stronger than a 30% buff + 50% CDR of a 20k hit?
That's some mighty bad math there
left hatch
that being said you can rouuuughly calc TC's new dps at 1/3 the current damage + 1/3*.7
gloomy sapphire
alright, lemme check my mighty bad math and come back to you. will admit defeat if I shouldve missed something
left hatch
yah 'non buffed' TC napkin math comes to 10.58M if i didn't run UC that dungeon
whereas it would buff Revenge dmg to a wopping 6.925M
and thats assuming every revenge cast is given the +25% buff
so.. id lose over 10M overall for a gain of about 1M
strong forum
Even if you spec fully into 3x CR + best served cold, you'll do less than normal TC without UF
left hatch
end of the day TC has way too much synergy with other shit that actively has you casting it more often (as well as it just basline doing more dmg)
BSC doesn't make you cast more revenges, nor does anything else in our kit aside from higher crit
so its a teeny tiny linear gain
vs. a multiplicitive one
strong forum
I mean all he has to do, is play a dungeon with UF, and then a dungeon with BSC, and realize he will do about 50% less dmg with bsc
left hatch
tru
even if you dump every spec of rage into revenge and ignored shield block and IP it wouldn't come close
strong forum
Okay the only way I could see BSC being stronger than UF is, if you don't press avatar
Aka play wrong
left hatch
be weird to not hit ava if you're so dps focused
given it buffs everything 20%
and thats w/o bom
gloomy sapphire
alright alright, my math was incorrect. quick math without tools led me to a false conclusion
thanks
strong forum
Like.. There's tanks doing 15s+ only pulling 15k dps single target
Or less
Averaging less than 20k overall
left hatch
i mean.... i had a salty reclear night where i just auto attacked and taunted offa my paladin tank.... and did about as much dps on first 3 mythic
strong forum
Thats some pepega shit
left hatch
so i fully get how bad ppl can be
left hatch
yah thats why i love tanking. once you hit comfy survival zone its all about being a DPS with more responsibility
gloomy sapphire
error was me thinking that I could constantly profit from the 25% dmg increase on veng, while clap gets his 30% only while avatar is active. In my original thought, I didnt consider that there are not always 5 mobs infront of me, and avatar has a higher uptime thatn expected because of vision
left hatch
not just vision, your other talents give you crazy uptime too
gloomy sapphire
yeah, avatar has an uptime of 50% on average apparently
according to a couple of logs I checked
left hatch
Booming voice is the best rage gen talent, and Anger manamegent gives you an incredible feedback loop
and yah that dungeon in particular i had 55% which is a bit low
perfect play it hovers 60%+
and in 8.3 itll be even higher cause Visions proc rate is being buffed 12%
strong forum
Also higher haste levels
Meaning more rage
Meaning more cooldown reduction with anger management
Meaning more avatars
Meaning more rage
left hatch
mmm imagine a fullstack of that haste proc corruption gear
100% ava uptime here i come
slim pier
Does getting hit by mobs give u rage?
left hatch
do parries/dodges give you rage
strong forum
No
left hatch
since they don't count as a 'hit' for many other mechanics
strong forum
Avoiding hits doesn't grant rage
In bfa its 3 flat rage with getting hit, with an icd of 1 sec ( could be lower idk)
2 rage with auto attack
Avoiding hits doesn't generate rage
strong forum
Before bfa
slim pier
so basically you'd be sitting with full rage all the time
oh so that existed until legion?
strong forum
You got rage based on dmg taken
So if you got hit for like 80% of your health you got fatty rage
But that changed with bfa
And was a major concern / issue on low haste levels
Rage gen was really low early on, creating alot of issues.
It got better eventually with gear
slim pier
Why did they change it?
slim pier
oh makes sense
left hatch
classic wow the issue was even worse, cause the better gear you had -> way less rage -> bigger threat issues
slim pier
Yeah but most naxx bosses dealt a lot of damage
left hatch
due to less rage gen abilities
yah but more blocks and stuff
was a super exacerbated issue that they didnt really bother to fix
slim pier
@strong forum what do you think of vengeance?
left hatch
just wasn't nearly as bad cause we got more toys to gen rage with
slim pier
MoP tank passive
empty nacelle
was fun out dpsing the rest of the raid because of /sit spam in ToT
left hatch
no idea, I've only tanked since mop lol
empty nacelle
it wasnt so much that dk was bad
monk and paladins were just strong, and i think warriors were too in SoO
left hatch
i really wish they brought back some form of dmg return/vengeance
Monks kinda have it with High tolerance/ToN
but not gud enough
be nice to have some talent or baseline that rewarded riskier play
with a big AP gain
empty nacelle
i mean some of it wasnt really all that risky
empty nacelle
paladins were just great in ToT because they could immune off tank debuffs
left hatch
oh it was totally broken
slim pier
it wasn't that bad until tot
empty nacelle
and you could do shit like tank lei shen decapitate at point blank range thanks to ardent defender while sitting, then just pop wings with holy avenger and do crazy damage.
left hatch
what about Bonus Armor?
slim pier
I remember the first time i checked the rankings on heroic SoO
and was REALLY confused when i saw tanks dominating
I thought
this gotta be a bug
then someone told me about vengeance
left hatch
i just have a warm fuzzy feeling in general for WoD tanking cuase Blood DK's Death strike :3 could just stack AP for days and never have my shield break
slim pier
I'm actually somewhat playing ona mop private server right now lol
it's actually really well scripted
left hatch
they ended vengeance with mop yah?
replaced it with something that increased healing taken for awhile irrc..
or some other meh thing like that for wod
slim pier
don't know about that
empty nacelle
think they removed the offensive aspect of it
left hatch
mighta been it, i remember they gimped it but that was short lived
empty nacelle
kept the defensive part, albeit at a reduced rate, in wod
left hatch
before taking it out entirely
oh yah in Wod it became "Resolve"
increases healing and absorbtion based on dmg taken
strong forum
I didn't tank in MoP
I was pvp'er from cata to early legion, well technically from tbc on, but I did both back then
empty nacelle
then you surely encountered BDK's in some BGs
think vengeance worked in there for a while
strong forum
Arena my friend
BGs you only play for 1 day to get honour gear, then you live inside the arena
Rip pvp vendors BTW :sad:
gleaming veldt
For pure ST (I mean PURE) would DR be better as I'll be playing Flames as essence
Or is it still TC till you drop that wins out?
sweet summit
You can sim that and see for your self
tiny sable
is there smth like a "best" race for prot warrior ?
gaunt dawn
What you want it to be
tiny sable
ok thanks
strong forum
DR?
exotic spoke
Morning
strong forum
Do you mean Dragon Meme?
I have no clue what you asked/said @gleaming veldt
I would guess you mean devastator vs booming voice, but you're playing in a different language so you have different abbreviations.
That would be the only correlation with essences I could assume
And if im correct, yes Devastator is a dps gain in pure ST over booming voice.
gleaming veldt
Ye OK, a bit unclear. To summarize:
Dragon meme + Flames
Or
Unstoppable force + visions
Or
UF + Flames
Which one is the best for pure ST?
frigid orchid
General Question about switching spec from fury to protection:
Right now im at an ilvl of 435.
is it better to start basically from scratch with complete new benthic gear or can i leave everything on (besides parts which provide me the azerite traits)?
brazen phoenix
Just reset the azerite gear and choose the protection traits?
frigid orchid
Im kinda thinking about playing both specs. And im not sure if it would be too expensive to reset the traits over and over again
brazen phoenix
Unless you switch back and forth several times per day it wouldn't get expensive
frigid orchid
Okay thanks then 🙂
chilly brook
@gleaming veldt you will never ever not use unstoppable force
Even if dragon roar did more damage than thunderclap over the duration of avatar you'd be missing out on the increased rage generation by being able to thunderclap every other global meaning more avatars and more attack power/damage buff over the duration of the fight
gleaming veldt
Touché, makes sense. thanks @chilly brook
exotic spoke
@wooden radish hi
wooden radish
hi @exotic spoke
exotic spoke
How are you today?
warm plinth
👋
warm plinth
Why are you meh Lincoln? I thought cats were stress free
warm plinth
😢
exotic spoke
Could be better as well. Up too late last night
exotic spoke
Oh shit son mwahi
wooden radish
@ionic fern young? aren't you like 18?
warm plinth
Imagine going bald at 18
exotic spoke
He’s not bald. He shaved it cause it looks good
strong forum
@gleaming veldt always UF always always always UF.
Crucible of Flames is your best option for Pure ST
You NEVER ever ever ever pick anything other than Unstoppable Force, it's one of the 4 reasons why prot is good
warm plinth
What are the other 3 reasons Nome?
strong forum
Anger Management
Bolster
Insane Physical midigation because of the aforementioned 3 other reasons
warm plinth
midigation
strong forum
Si
strong forum
Ah yes, to lower downtime between packs
wooden radish
@strong forum 😉
exotic spoke
@strong forum why do you think BrM is boring to play
strong forum
Idk, only played for like 10minutes in legion and hated it, no dmg
Still have the monk on 110 named wantsumfuk
sick sentinel
He doesn’t think brm is boring
warm plinth
No one:
Me: I think it's boring because the abilities don't feel good to press. There's not really any cool animations or sound effects outside of Keg Smash. ISB is a mindless mitigation and purifying doesn't require much thought either with a WA.
strong forum
Wanted to gear it up for mage tower appearance, and just... Puked everywhere and cba'd
warm plinth
Exactly lul
Lol, BrM mage tower was a fuckin joke with gear
Literally run angry dave and he soloed the first phase
warm plinth
I actually missed out on some mage towers now that I'm kinda bummed about
strong forum
Still in full greens
warm plinth
But I got most of the ones I wanted, and did all the tanks
Yeah if you were like...sub 900 especially it was not great
strong forum
Sub 900 prot warri Chad here
warm plinth
I ez-moded most of the tanks tbh
Think the lowest toon that I did it on was my DK at 919 or some shit
Or 912? Soemthing like that
warm plinth
Yeah VDH you literally didn't have to care about any mechanics on that fight
Oh i got knocked. /glide
warm plinth
Yeah that's the only reason I failed on DK too because I wasn't used to the adds not auto-aggroing me when I hit one
Since on warrior they did
strong forum
Warri on 898 was brutal
warm plinth
Like hey where'd those other three adds go Velen dies Fuck
strong forum
I failed on vdh at 0.3% of kazzak HP, thinking I did it, but alas Velen died
warm plinth
I didn't have any meaningful legendaries on warrior til very late so I didn't even bother trying early
strong forum
I tried from week 1, got it week 3 I think
warm plinth
TWF was not gonna help me with it 😂
The only one I did at low ilevels was WW/BM because it was stupidly easy
Though I still am proud of my WW one because I completed it before there were any addons updated for them
And was like 887 or something
strong forum
Which one was it
strong forum
Ah that one's giga easy
warm plinth
aka the easiest mage tower ever
warm plinth
Yeah some specs were dumb, and some legendaries made it trivial
Like my 2nd monk did it at 886 and had prydaz and sephuz. Talk about fucking easy
warm plinth
I think that's one of the ones I never did maybe?
I never did the one where you had the two dudes, one of which you had to kite. And there was one other that I don't think I did.
Oh, 2 others. I never did Agatha either
exotic spoke
Lol I only did prot
exotic spoke
But uh... I only play warrior now and didn’t really care about the dps ones
strong forum
I did all specs on shaman warri wl and dh
exotic spoke
EXCUSE ME. I HAVE MULTIPLE TOONS
exotic spoke
I have multiple classes over 110 too
warm plinth
Like Arms was fuckin faceroll
Did it in like 3 tries having never played arms in my life
strong forum
I struggled a bit with arms cuz, again, no gear
warm plinth
Yeah, it was a bit of a DPS check too in 2nd phase
Because if the floor covers up you're fucked
stark scroll
Guardian druid was pretty faceroll
warm plinth
I did guardian after they fixed it but I was like 929 so it wasn't that bad.
stark scroll
Possibly post fix, idk I did it during ToS as my druid was new
warm plinth
I had to do it without the bracers though which was kinda shit
sand egret
guardian + the right leggos made it trivial
stark scroll
Prot war was the hardest of the tanks imo
sand egret
yeah i had no leggos when I did it =(*
warm plinth
I struggled more on DK than any other because it was the only one I really felt like the adds mattered
Like just having to actually pay attention to them in regards to Velen
stark scroll
I hope they bring something like it back again as it was fun, annoying as some specs without the right legendaries though which was the only downside
warm plinth
Yeah for sure. I had to do the mistweaver one with one legendary because my only other one was prydaz 😂
warm plinth
Well, prydaz was actually a hindrance for the healer one because you had to take damage on purpose in the last phase
So I had to take it off or it would've just made the fight harder
stark scroll
Ah rip
strong forum
Ye prot war was defo hardest
analog zinc
how was prot war hard?
strong forum
Cuz 'no self-heal'
analog zinc
ah that's a fair poitn
empty nacelle
How was port paladin?
stark scroll
If you didn't have the bracers it was super hard
strong forum
Had to bank on VRs
empty nacelle
Prot*
analog zinc
prot pally was brutal for me
strong forum
And use them correctly
warm plinth
Prot paladin depended highly on when you did it
Because initially their boss had twice the HP of every other tank
stark scroll
I struggled with paladin too, but mine wasn't well geared
strong forum
Early on prot pally was borderline impossible
analog zinc
i tried it a bunch when it came out & I just could not do it
in antorus I came back & it was a joke
same with bear
warm plinth
Yeah you had to fight for like 10 fuckin minutes and make 0 mistakes or some shit initially lol
analog zinc
i did it at like 930 antorus gear & stomped the bear tower
stark scroll
I stopped before Antorus, I regret that as the paladin one looked sick
warm plinth
Yeah if you did it after they nerfed the HP on it and were over like 920, all of them were pretty easy
As long as you didn't get punted anyway :p
empty nacelle
Honestly the warrior one is the only I liked, because of the flail
analog zinc
god those knocks
warm plinth
Prot paladin got a flail as well
warm plinth
Ahhh the stereotypical bulwark of azzinoth :p
I think most of them you can still get though right? Just not the mage tower
stark scroll
Yeah you can get all apart from mage tower and the pvp tints I think
stark scroll
I thought you couldn't get the RBG ones?
strong forum
Why wouldn't you
stark scroll
Because the req was during the specific season
strong forum
Huh
No
There was no artifact correlation
With seasons
The only rbg one is for mage tower
analog zinc
everything is obtainable except the base mage tower appearance
strong forum
Get 10 wins in rbg