Better not be talking about me
#protection
sick sentinel
Hmm this was not the answer I expected... I'll get the proper results from ...
how the fuck do you link cross server chats
tame garden
acoustic sparrow
So is prot war looking solid heading into 8.3 despite all the magic damage? Only tank info I'm hearing about is the same copy pasta BDK nonsense.
tame garden
Hacker
neon tangle
Just roll monk like a normal person
sick sentinel
@acoustic sparrow Warrior is fine. The sky isn't falling. BDK isn't best spec against magic damage.
Next
tame garden
Vdh
ionic fern
The magic damage part of 8.3 is blown out of porportion - there are some bosses who do more magic damage but in general there's still a lot of physical damage going around so Prot will be fine. @acoustic sparrow
acoustic sparrow
sweet, thanks
exotic spoke
Can we get that pinned please?
sick sentinel
"Sweet, thanks" is a weird thing to pin
exotic spoke
Without the @
neon tangle
implying that people won't blow small differences in classes out of proportion regardless
also implying people read the pins
sick sentinel
acoustic sparrow
the way "some" are talking about 8.3 you'd think wars and druids would get one shot just by zoning into the raid.
sick sentinel
It allows me ot do that though
tame garden
People are morons
sick sentinel
8.3 is the rise of the VDH
tame garden
If warrior can survive high motherlode keys
sick sentinel
It's the rise of thiccbear stfu
exotic spoke
M+ is where it’s at anyway
tame garden
They can survive nyalotha
neon tangle
@acoustic sparrow Literally every patch, source: how people talk about VDH here, how people talked about warrior in 8.0, etc etc
sick sentinel
Thiccbear can liccbear my turd cutter
exotic spoke
Fuck Rixxa on high tyrannical keys
tame garden
8.3 bear meta
sick sentinel
Coward shape shifter
exotic spoke
Back off. Speg is a qtpie
sick sentinel
I feel like I have called speg a coward shapeshifter 5 of the last 7 days
tame garden
You are my rival
exotic spoke
Roosipp
sick sentinel
If we ever encounter in world combat, expect a war
sick sentinel
Yeah what will you do slap me kek
tame garden
🪓 🐻
exotic spoke
You’re both horde?
See this is why alliance is better
We’re not trying to kill each other
sick sentinel
Well killing alliance is so easy we have resorted to fighting each other for a real challenge
exotic spoke
I’m thinking of going mechagnome
In 8.3 if racials (read the treats) stay as OP as they are
neon tangle
why not vulpera
sick sentinel
F U R R Y
strong forum
Mechagnome racial seems beyond broken
sick sentinel
Imagine not being a furry warrior
strong forum
Hope it'll be nerfed soon
sick sentinel
What even is the racial
neon tangle
I think I see your first issue
neon tangle
soon to be alliance in 2020
brittle owl
caring about faction in 2019
exotic spoke
Imagine not being able to clear your stacks / bleeds / dots in combat
brittle owl
y'all don't even care about your countries
sick sentinel
Not caring about faction in 2019
brittle owl
neon tangle
Imagine being able to find a group so you even get some stacks / bleeds / dots on you
exotic spoke
I have and usually it works very well. But dwarf allows for even bigger more ambitious pulls on necrotic weeks without kiting
neon tangle
How long do the gnome-treants live?
exotic spoke
Necrotic is even more effectively a non issue
Not sure off hand sandbox. But they pump from what I’ve heard
sick sentinel
What’s the CD on it
neon tangle
the health thing seems nice, and more primary stat isn't too bad either
sick sentinel
I need to look it up but if I pull it up on my work computer my boss will come sniffing around asking why I am not customer obsessing
exotic spoke
And yeah the passive heal every couple minutes when you dip is nice
I’ll check hawgz
neon tangle
downside is that people will try and get you to open lockboxes
exotic spoke
Sure. Give me the lockboxes
neon tangle
worst thing about playing a rogue
exotic spoke
You’re not getting them back
sand egret
damn, them little shits get free lockpicking too?!
neon tangle
payment
exotic spoke
Lol
junior ivy
hi
neon tangle
hi
exotic spoke
Hi catfriend
junior ivy
how are you all
junior ivy
good
almost done school for xmas break!
one more exam tomorrow, and one more final project due friday
maybe ill play some WoW these next 3 weeks lol
or mass effect andromeda i dunno
exotic spoke
Hooray! Hope exams are going well
junior ivy
thanks, my hardest one was networking, had it yesterday
i think i did alright
definitley passed
undone sun
👏
junior ivy
next semester my schedule is so nice
3 days a week i finish at noon
and 2 days i finish at 330pm
stoic pilot
I think my fav thing for mechagnomes is being able to open tol‘dagor doors lol
junior ivy
i want a mechagnome 😭
tame garden
Gross
sick sentinel
anyone speaks german here ? and can help me with a few questions about tank 🙂 ?
tame garden
Nein
wooden radish
@ionic fern 👋
exotic spoke
Is mwahi German? I don’t know why but I thought he was
wooden radish
he's from Estonia
tame garden
Is nome german
sand egret
no shit? i loved that place when I visited 🙂
sand egret
your country is beautiful
ionic fern
Oh, you've visited? Not many people have.
ionic fern
Ah, nice. 🙂
sand egret
was only there for a day, but the architecture and such was awesomme
ionic fern
I guess you were just in Tallinn?:)
acoustic sparrow
So I have this 445 lingering sporepod sitting in my bags...isn't even worth considering for m+?
acoustic sparrow
currently using a 430 rezan with a socket and a 440 block
royal fjord
tanking, day 2, I just unlocked ignore pain. I Love this move.
tame garden
Stick with those over sporepods
exotic spoke
Yeah keep those monero
sick sentinel
i need help with simcraft or simming my warri , can anyone help me ?
acoustic sparrow
Yea I figured. I only wondered because the arms pvp guide mentioned the sporepod as one of three trinkets I should use to increase survivability by a good margin. I thought maybe I was missing something.
exotic spoke
I potentially can depending on your issue Admiral. What’s up?
sweet summit
its 
in pve, but godlike in pvp apparently
exotic spoke
It’s because arms lacks self sustain which is very nice in pvp
analog zinc
god this shit fucking sucks
tame garden
Lmao
analog zinc
2.3% of my damage 🙂
exotic spoke
Phial?
acoustic sparrow
is merekthas used in pvp?
sullen valve
Daily reminder @ionic fern plays shaman
sullen valve
exotic spoke
Hi abelito
or 🐻 @sullen valve
sullen valve
I don't have access to my sad mw emote
tame garden
:dedspec:
royal fjord
Do I want to try to keep ignore pain as much as possible, with focus on SB over it on cooldown
strong forum
depends
if youre keeping an eye on your rage
not blindly spending it on IP
aka smart
then yes
royal fjord
awesome
royal fjord
man I feel so rage starved at 40 blah
tame garden
Because block is good and the damage is good for st
strong forum
cuz block value is very good
and the aforementioned ST dmg increase is quite substantial
sage path
That’s good, I like running with Prot War.
I just want that old feeling 3 months ago back when my tank use to do 100k every trash pull. But healer is gone now, so is our dear mage.
olive sparrow
simple question here, just boosted a warrior got 3 trinkets now: 405 edict, mechagon trinket 404 ( with haste proc and versa haste punchcard ) or 415 trinket from worldboss ( versa + main stat on proc )
what should I be using?
sage path
Edict + Mechagon trinket.
Get yourself a diamond barrier or urchin later. Otherwise upgrade your Mechagon trinket to high ilevel with good yellow punchcards (costs quite a bit of gold or HM Mecha farming).
olive sparrow
I've read somewhere that the haste proc is rly strong. Is there any way to get the red card on a higher ilvl than 404?
yellow punchcard upgrading is obvious, talking about the red one
lucid dew
you would use cyclo over that haste
sage path
UR mastery trinket is good too if you want to do some more damage, AD has a good haste proc trinket, Alchemist Stone is also pretty good and comes with socket + better health pot.
Cyclontronic is pretty risky
lucid dew
i use eddicts and urchin
sage path
Alchemist Stone might be the best until you can get eddict urchin because in lower keys and even mid tier keys, healer heal themselves the most.
You’ll be using lots and lots of healthpots.
Especially as War
olive sparrow
I'm getting carried through keys by my guild ( and through heroic raid later on )
so that should be fine
sage path
Health pot, health stone, you will be like a Skyrim char at low health.
Nah as a war it’s your duty to pull big, beat your wheelchair dps in dps, and spell reflect big hits back to bosses and make them cry.
There are certain things that make this tank spec the most well respected and the most elite out of all the other tanks.
olive sparrow
which is why I came to warrior, I decided ( now that I got pushed off ww by my guild ) that pressing isb and afking was too boring for me
strong forum
Using lots of health pots 
sand egret
👢 🍵 👏
chilly brook
@sage path tbh even as a lower geared prot warrior you shouldn't really need health pots on stuff like 10s
sage path
You never know dude, I’ve seen ppl stack up for quaking and get hit by frontal cleaves.
chilly brook
But I mean that's your fault for not doing mechanics
chilly brook
It's good practice to use them in general
Same with health stones
In 10s though unless you're playing badly or your group is causing you to take a ton of extra damage or healer is just a slacker I don't see the need to use health pots too much
sage path
Well they’re dirt cheap too
It’s a good reflex like how some ppl forget to use healthstone and pots in prog raid.
tame garden
I'm the opposite I chug them so regularly in m+ that I waste them in raid
sage path
What does a Prot war need to do really good damage? The damage gap between a regular war tank and a godly one is pretty huge.
sand egret
simple answer: do your rotation correctly. There are outliers for the parse-minded (reck flurry in ST, etc.) but in general content it's optimizing your rotation and rage gen/spending. AM fuels the spec. Learn to pump during Avatar and learn to get more Avatars to pump with.
sage path
Reckless Flurry lol.
west galleon
i mean if you don't need the defensive it's not like you're ruining your raid by going RF
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sage path
So it’s just triple bastion avatar window ehh?
west galleon
just using your tools as effectively as possible
sand egret
it's more
think of it like how Shadow Priests operate
at least last expac (i'm not hip to them now)
sage path
If I can’t get my fire mage back I guess I’ll just have to become the fire mage myself.
sand egret
they wanted to maximize the amount of time they spend IN void form. You're doing that but with Avatar. Difference is, instead of building a meter you're spending your meter to reduce its CD
so playing well out of avatar just means mores time IN avatar.
orchid raptor
thunderclap enemy hit cap?
west galleon
no cap, over 20 targets it splits the dmg it would do at 20 targets between all targets hit
if tclap does 1 damage, it does 20 dmg to 20 targets (1 dmg/target) or 20 damage to 30 targets (2/3 dmg/target)
pearl sinew
Hey all, I am looking to get some advice from top tier prot warrs in mythic raiding. Has anyone tested them on PTR in mythic raiding? Are they going to be bottom tier? Everything I read says that the heavy magic damage raid will crush prot warrs. Anyone have a different opinion? We are usually a mythic guild that gets close to CE most tiers.
exotic spoke
Were going to be fine
The predictions about tank meta are almost always wrong. They are also discounting the periods of heavy physical damage and overstating the magic damage
distant crystal
P much
You won't see a protwarr in the wf race
But any tank will be able to tank CE
quiet crane
There’s some really iffy cringe magic moments in there from what I tested but it will still be fine all tanks are weak to magic except arguably DH which no one will take
^
pearl sinew
I guess BDK's arguably could be good with the incoming magic dmg
pearl sinew
I would love to make a prot warr work since I do mostly M+ outside of raiding
distant crystal
bdk is theorized to be meta
quiet crane
Warrior will be fine
exotic spoke
You should be fine man
distant crystal
For raid
quiet crane
Max started that rumour
warm plinth
@outer dew is always meta for me
quiet crane
And I can argue why it’s false
exotic spoke
I’m joining a guild and they have had zero talks with me to swap to another tanking class
quiet crane
But like the guys said warr will not stop you progressing
oblique garnet
yeah thats a trap and they force you to play monk anwyways
outer dew
@warm plinth it's okay, you're a vision of perfection
quiet crane
And it’s still extremely strong
outer dew
😉
warm plinth
Hey Late, you wanna hear more of my jokes later?
pearl sinew
LOL LAte
warm plinth
Or should I say Later
exotic spoke
@oblique garnet they can’t force me to play anything.
They can force me to not raid with them unless I play something though.
pearl sinew
that is what my guild did this tier
Now I am trying to make the switch back to Warrior
oblique garnet
tbh id rather play monk than bdk
pearl sinew
Bdk is so slow ><
exotic spoke
But.... booty clapping
distant crystal
I mean what other tank could 1 shot bosses
warm plinth
Yeah I mean, you gonna actually prog Raden or you gonna run a prot war, collect your loot, and move on
sage path
Spell Reflect UwU
When Prot wars pitted speed pot and ran right into floor pimples you kill the giant worm.
oblique garnet
@sage path When you were talking about maximizing damage for prot did you mean in raids or m+
because m+ depends alot on your pulls
sage path
M+, my tank use to be the best. But he has trauma for pulling 6 packs at once in 22 FH and setting Fire Mage and Healer getting Harpooned to death.
We did 2 packs going into 2nd boss, then chained to the 4 mobs packs all together with lust and combust.
Mage got yoinked right out of font, healer got yoinked out of tranq 😭. We still fought on bravely until bursting stacks eventually got to 8 and he ran out of places to run and died... After that, he’s never been the same and doesn’t do any more pulls bigger than 2-3 packs.
oblique garnet
🤷♂️ Hard to fix something like that i just like to do fun pulls and see how many i can pull together
sage path
He was a true Prot war, didn’t wear tank trinket.
2 on use trinkets, the one from UR and Jes’Howler
oblique garnet
thats just stupid in high keys
Urchin and edicts are too broken not to be used in higher keys
You dont even sacrifice that much damage for them
sage path
Yes I completely agree, he has BiS everything now but... the warrior spirit is dead.
That’s why I want to know how to reignite that flame, the mad lad that had the balls to pull MDI level in a 22 key with a amateur group.
west galleon
tell him to suck it up and stop having ptsd over some pixels
oblique garnet
I mean if he isnt top dps wheres the fun in prot 
split plinth
anyone know what the ral cd of last stand roughly tunrs out to be in m+?
like 60-80 seconds?
sick sentinel
1 min
chilly brook
@pearl sinew tbh BDK is kinda fun tho since you actually have to think a little unlike monk
warm plinth
Who the fuck is @sick sentinel
near ivy
👀
west galleon
toxic
sick sentinel
who the fuck is @sick sentinel
warm plinth
Hi Kaege. I missed you
warm plinth
Where you been?
sick sentinel
playing other games with presumably women
sage path
What if they turned out to be traps?
oblique garnet
Hes into it
novel temple
What trinkets do you use instead of edict and urchin during infected/whatever the affix is that causes a healing debuff
warm plinth
Rezan and butcher block
ivory barn
is there a way to get logs on a toon that recently switched names
distant crystal
i still use edict on necrotic
warm plinth
Are things like edict dynamic? Like...if it reapplies during necrotic, and then necrotic drops, does the absorb go up? Or does it only care about your status when it procs?
loud oyster
Hey guys im struggling with stat prio - i know its generally highest ilvl. Do tanks still use socketed items if they are 10 ilvls lower? And what is the gemmed stat prio for mythic +. I tend to do 15-20 keys we dont particularlly push higher
warm plinth
On anything but a ring, I wouldn't drop ilevel for a socket. Even in that case, it would have to be like...dropping a 440 ring with no haste for a 430 socketed ring with haste for me. And for the other few pieces you'd drop ilevel on for a socket, it'd be 5 ilevels, not 10 (and for me would likely only be cape or wrists). As far as gems, should be 120 str gem and then haste (with force mult on wep).
loud oyster
@warm plinth thank you. I presume that means enchanting haste as well
warm plinth
Yep
loud oyster
is there any particular "cap"?
warm plinth
I meant to say something about enchants there (hence why I mentioned force mult) but my brain wasn't working I guess
Nope, not anything reachable
distant crystal
AFAIK edict is dynamic
the bubble will be the same size regardless but when you take dmg it will absorb less based on necro
pog
ashvane chest
not to great one but the ok one from raid
now the question
arcane heart vs callous reprisal hmmmm
i wonder what kinda uptime i could look for on arcane heart
warm plinth
Is that the one where you have to do like 1 mil damage/healing and you get a stat proc or some shit
warm plinth
Interesting
distant crystal
for 15sec
i'm gonna try it out for a key or two and see what the uptime looks like
i don't think there's much arcane dmg for the other part
You heal for 5% of all arcane dmg taken
warm plinth
Yeah I can't even think of any arcane damage in dungeons
distant crystal
should be good for about nothing in keys
warm plinth
Maybe galvazzt? But I kinda assumed nature I guess
warm plinth
Imagine taking til now for 3x BoM. Just get BiS your first try 4head
cloud hound
Which is our best set of traits for m+? (18-20 keys) 3 bom 1 dc and then? What we want the last two traits to be?
cloud hound
No if or bs?
distant crystal
nah
exotic spoke
More haste means higher uptime on shield block when youre constantly tanking and cant let it come off of CD
cloud hound
Ok ty. Think i have the pieces required. Imma try it
strong forum
Also haste indirectly reduces CD on Last Stand, Shieldwall Avatar and Demo
The issue with arcane heart is @distant crystal the dmg / healing you do while the arcane heart buff is active, doesn't count towards your next proc
So it's 1.5mil>buff for 15sec, buff runs out, then you need another 1.5mil to get the buff
true plover
What's the change point in M+ between Visions/Conflict for majors? And is Null barrier not something worth running over conflict or lucid minors for us if we are using vision major?
strong forum
Null barrier only does dmg when you take magic dmg, there's not much magic dmg, and if there is 9/10 it can be avoided for the most part, making it suboptimal
Cns gains value in higher keys defensively because of the double vers and/or necrotic weeks if you have to kite, but it's not played very often cuz vop has very strong offensive benefits
slim pier
Lmao your avatar always makes me smile
strong forum
Null barrier has no correlation to other essences, it's decent in ML WCM and maybe shrine
Outside of that null isn't all that useful
true plover
@strong forum What would it be replacing?
strong forum
What would what be replacing, null? Lucid
true plover
Never conflict?
strong forum
CNS minor is the strongest minor in the game
true plover
Why is that?
strong forum
For almost every class/spec
Cuz it's what 5% perma vers
No other minor offers that much stats
And vers scales trinkets other essences and traits
true plover
Hmm interesting
true plover
That makes a set of questions that seemed way more complicated a whole lot simpler.
strong forum
Sphere is also good cuz it's effectively 100% uptime on 320 haste
Glad to have helped
Also I'm bored so thanks for a question to answer, kek
true plover
One more thing
Offensively, does CnS compete decently at all with visions offensively or is it a defensive choice?
true plover
I don't have my r3 cns yet on my war
Would I just run r3 sos till then or r3 aegis instead?
strong forum
Then don't run it
R3 is the big one
Especially if you think about running it as major
Cus r3 is the one that doubles your vers gain if you CC
true plover
Is lucid dreams always worth keeping?
strong forum
It's not bad
Can always use it as you please
If you have r3 it's 30% uptime on 380 vers
true plover
There seems to be a lot of interchangeability between lucid/aegis/cns/null tbh
From everything I'm looking up on r.io
dusk token
Hello @ionic fern can you help 🕵️
ionic fern
dusk token
😂
strong forum
Yup @true plover
Lucid/aegis/cns/sphere are all usable and won't have a huge impact
sick sentinel
whats tank meta looking like in 8.3? m+ and raid
paper flower
blood dks seem strong for the raid
ionic fern
That is a load of crap @paper flower
strong forum
Vdh monk pally X
ionic fern
For 8.3 as with each new tier - all the tanks will be viable and you should play what you want.
Brm is going to still hold the lead as always due to their mitigation pattern that's extremely strong in new tiers.
strong forum
Nobody knows what fotm will be besides monk
ionic fern
That's what it's almost always been.
sick sentinel
was brew in m+ just a fad
strong forum
Yes
sick sentinel
wowzer
strong forum
A combination of a Bug + Trinkets
strong forum
Only on very high keys + necrotic, outside of that not really
sick sentinel
what was the brew bug? was it related to trinkets
strong forum
Also Monks are very strong against beguiling itself with RoP.
Monks self-healing is bugged on high stamina levels, they heal currently way more than they should be due to that bug.
Edict and urchin play perfectly into monks midigation
That's all stuff that will be gone
On top of the monk nerfs
And loss of shivervenom Lance will also dampen their dps quite a bit
Until they get the AA corrupted weapon
sick sentinel
did blizzard refuse to fix conflict and strife + snare bug
strong forum
It's not a bug
sick sentinel
"not a bug" okay so yes
strong forum
If you're referring to the snare not applying if they're slowed for more than 30%
sick sentinel
appreciate all the guidance have a nice day
sweet summit
@dusk token go away 
ionic fern
Isn't he your GM now? 👀
sweet summit
Uhhh 👀
undone sun
😬
umbral compass
im newish to tanking mythic+ only ilvl 430...feel like im struggling this week and cant quite figure out why...is it teeming? also i feel like im taking alot of dmg from dps stacking on me quaking...idk
dusk token
im just here for this juicy BDK talk @ionic fern @sweet summit 🍿
brittle owl
Indeed, for you see Blood Death Knights are not any tank. NO, not by a long shot, they are THE tank that scales the best with stamina. Why? I hear you ask, well because obviously. Furthermore, they also have access to the best mitigation in the game, which is as we know HEALING. Thus because of their AMAZING scaling allowing not to get ONE SHOTTED anymore, add to that the fact that they can heal themselves, which again IS the BEST mitigation of the game, They are IN FACT objectively without the shadow of a doubt the BEST tank in the game. Plus I mean Future, Limit and Preach mentioned them at some point and when have they ever been wrong.
dusk token
Didn't Preach say VDH was gonna be competitive this tier 🤔
ancient mulch
Believe he did yeah
brittle owl
So, you too have heard the prophets, about the coming of the NEW build for Vengeance Demon Hunter. THE BUILD that would finally give them vindication, that would once and for all make them relevant. Well, you’ve come to the right place, you see US the GUYS OF THE DH DISCORD have engineered a totally new and improved version of Vengeance Demon Hunter. A BUILD that allow us to be as sturdy as a monk A BUILD maybe superior to even THE GREATEST TANK OF ALL TIME Blood Death Knights. Now, what is this build you may ask? Well to use THE G.O.A.T build for Vengeance demon hunter you must take gluttony and ... spam shear. I mean that’s probably what Preach was talking about. Maybe? We’re not too sure actually.
ancient mulch
but they also said that pre BfA and look how that went
dusk token
the content
brittle owl
🤔
ancient mulch
Yeah they are pretty decent now for sure, but still they said that they would be super strong for M+ because of their damage and their self heals pre BfA and look how well that turned out
sick sentinel
overrated every single patch and never amounts to anything
brittle owl
do we play the same game
sick sentinel
in fact dh has been a huge trap since its inception as a class
it has never been good
ancient mulch
wat
brittle owl
you realize they can be sturdier than any other tank atm right?
albeit with negative dps output
ancient mulch
never been good wat
ancient mulch
??? what does that have to do with anything how many buttons you press?
brittle owl
^
sick sentinel
it's a red flag is all
brittle owl
oh one of those people
ancient mulch
Is this the local troll here? been a while since I was in here
undone sun
😢
ionic fern
Well this was a fun read.
strong forum
Well vdh was irrefutably strong during beta,the strongest even, but they also got continously nerfed in the beta
Sooooo. The pre-bfa preaching was factual for a while
But right now they're stronger than many would like to admit
sharp rover
I'd like to improve my spell reflect usage. Which mobs in mythic keystones have spells that can be reflected?
strong forum
There's a spreadsheet in #268491842637660160
ionic fern
And a WA.
sharp rover
Bless you
wooden radish
i heard there are memes afoot here
ionic fern
Only serious discussions.
ebon geyser
So early and so much toxicity
We all know if sco or max jump on a dk or dh the masses will be jumping to them
undone sun
doesn't mean it's right
ebon geyser
I'm not saying playing any of those two classes is viable or good
Monk is still gonna be king
strong forum
I'm not so sure about that tbh
sick sentinel
DH will be king with the new spec
strong forum
If you absolutely don't need any tank dmg, vdh is the king yes
If there's gonna be a massive tank dmg wall
frosty ridge
gluttony build is that little dps?
strong forum
Yes
wooden radish
there are a lot of burn phases in this new raid where tank damage might be required
frosty ridge
like how much we talking, half of other tanks or?
sick sentinel
it's still going to be monk because dh will still be weak outside of gluttony windows which still are less than 30% uptime
wooden radish
i mean, you don't do dps when 90% of your GCDs are sheer
sick sentinel
being unkillable for 30% will still not outweigh stagger
strong forum
Pretty sure uptime is higher than 30%
sick sentinel
vdh hp pool is very large though
ebon geyser
Monk>warrior >dk>bear>dh
frosty ridge
against magic dmg hp is pretty good tho
ebon geyser
Imo
strong forum
With shear spam, vdh does shitton of hps
wooden radish
with the cheat death essence and last resort,, they'll get long periods of meta
sweet summit
I disagree, but ok
sick sentinel
it matters when you're talking about windows of vulnerability
gluttony uptime is between 20 and 30% since the buff, if you play with the Mechagon essence (which the dh discord does not recommend) it's a couple of % higher
still random as fuck and it might not proc when you actually need it
strong forum
It's not about not recommending
It's just that no other essence is better
You can play any essence, but vop +glut is ~4ppm on average
wooden radish
raw HP matters more against damage that bypasses armor where your EHP is lower (magic, bleeds, etc)
ebon geyser
But let's be honest the community play what streamers play
strong forum
People still play more bdks than prot warri, even tho warri is vastly superiro
wooden radish
in M+, streamers will play prot warrior
strong forum
Just because they like bdks
sick sentinel
Yeah but why bring a dh which relys on proc when you can just bring a monk that has perhaps only a few % less survivability but still more than enough and does twice the damage?
ebon geyser
They dont give a fuck about numbers or theorycraft etc
sick sentinel
unlike monk, dh can't cheese null barrier
wooden radish
monk is still the king.
sick sentinel
rogue might also become meta tank if you bring 15 and have them circle evasion
sweet summit
But maybe, some people prefer to play dh instead of monk :o
ebon geyser
Dh is lacking mitigation spike uptime is garbo
sweet summit
Then take ftd
ebon geyser
And apparently playing vop glut is 
wooden radish
i mean, tank choice literally matters for 5-10 guilds. after that you can play whatever you want.
ebon geyser
Might aswell play a bear
sweet summit
I do enjoy it from time to time
frosty ridge
doesn't your co-tank rip aggro from you if you do half the damage of other tanks?
sweet summit
Just because of the insane tankyness
sweet summit
You can taunt
ebon geyser
It matters to 5-10 guild but guilds 11-7000 are gonna play what sco or max play
strong forum
Ftd vop glut, and vdh can maintain 70k hps ST
sweet summit
Depends on damage taken ofc
strong forum
In a high enough dmg environment
sweet summit
Yeh
wooden radish
zul 23?
strong forum
Yup
wooden radish
what is zul 23
sweet summit
KR fortified 23
strong forum
Shadow of zul +23 fortified
wooden radish
oh
sweet summit
Shadow if zul
wooden radish
the KR trash mob
strong forum
That's 90% magic dmg
warm plinth
Imagine calling Zul a trash mob
strong forum
^
sweet summit
The real boss of kr
warm plinth
Zul is literally the boss of the dungeon
wooden radish
he's technically a trash mob 🙂
ebon geyser
Zul is THE dungeon
warm plinth
😄
wooden radish
since when did ark join skyhold
ebon geyser
I have never left
wooden radish
i thought you quit wow
ebon geyser
This is the best community
undone sun
who hasn't quit wow 👀
ebon geyser
Skyhold has the most helpful ppl
wooden radish
ya, it has @ionic fern
ebon geyser
And @undone sun
wintry vessel
Warrior is the strongest DPS tank, right? (Building for dps instead of survivability)
wooden radish
in AE yes
wintry vessel
Not ST?
ebon geyser
I was gonna quit then found a guild
wintry vessel
I wanna do 3/3 of the Fury Warrior Auto trait and shield bash trait
wooden radish
strong forum
Well bruh
Lincoln that's because or benthic and shivervenom
Outside of that pally and prot are Kings in ST
wintry vessel
I’m guessing brew damage is all hot trub and dangerous playing for constant high stagger?
ebon geyser
Well those tanks DO NOT gear for survival all their stuff is benthic/dps and they have good healers that can heal tru the gearing that they do @wintry vessel
warm plinth
They don't even need good healers; they're killing the boss in 2 1/2 minutes lul
wooden radish
ark being ark
frosty ridge
brew don't play hot trub. they were playing it on Zaqul, otherwise it's CoF for ST
strong forum
Pally is highest ST, monk is only cuz of shiver venom so high
frosty ridge
there's not enough dmg for hot trub even in mythic raiding
warm plinth
Yeah pretty sure hot trub is just for M+
strong forum
Hot trub only works in high keys
frosty ridge
for high 20+ m+
strong forum
Where tanks take actual dmg
sick sentinel
single target dps this tier was very weird for tanks
sick sentinel
paladin seemed liek the highest but you had to bend over backwards the most
wooden radish
a crit vs. non crit is a difference of 4% dps
i mean, you just run a standard build
warm plinth
Just use razor coral 4head
wooden radish
there is no bending over backwards
frosty ridge
also, other tanks have to spec or play differently to dps more, brew's on the other hand not so much, they just play the same (maybe purify a little less to be in red stagger more for more mastery)
frosty ridge
seraphim tho
ebon geyser
Paladins have only 1 spec
frosty ridge
isn't it offensive option
warm plinth
Does druid play differently? I don't think they have enough buttons to play differently. I guess they might actually cast Maul? 😂
ebon geyser
Sera
sick sentinel
idk seraphim seems liek bending over backwards to me
frosty ridge
ah
tame garden
@warm plinth
warm plinth
Oh shit it's a 🐻
wooden radish
the only other talent choice is Last Defender for Org. Add tanking, otherwise Sera
wooden radish
nope
warm plinth
So it just gradually gets worse as an expansion goes on?
wooden radish
as a % of your secondaries, sure
sick sentinel
would asy it gets better
warm plinth
Yeah I just meant like, relatively
sick sentinel
your main stat goes way up late in an xpac
wooden radish
but the value conversions (outside of mastery) are static
warm plinth
Right
So it basically provides the same static benefit the entire time. It's just a smaller % increase (when you figure that you'll have like 4k secondaries (made up number) at the end of the expansion vs 2k (also made up number)
wooden radish
yes
frosty ridge
so the verdict is vdh is op but not worth losing all that dps
warm plinth
Even if it did actually get worse, not like there's another good damage option right lol
warm plinth
I can attest to that. I have a VDH tank in my M+ group and I don't like it at all.
wooden radish
but VoP is bad for Prot Paladin
warm plinth
At least, once you get to where we're at (18/19s)
Sad you have to make those corrections lest someone be like "bUt It'S gOoD fOr HoLy" because they read it out of context :p
sweet summit
Have you ever failed a key because low dps?
ebon geyser
I mean and realistically u dont need to play sera
warm plinth
Hard to say, but I have peeled off of my tank due to low DPS and died
ebon geyser
That u should yeah kinda that u have to no
warm plinth
Whew, that sentence took some work
sweet summit
Blame the rogue for not using tricks
sweet summit
Blame both of them!
warm plinth
Hunter uses MD on CD pretty much; he has a macro or something that says like how much threat it transferred or w/e
warm plinth
He does, VoP/glutt
strong forum
In what level, and how much overall did he do
Cuz a good vdh can still pull 25k overall with full turtle
warm plinth
He normally does somewhere between 16k and 20k overall I believe, in 18s/19s
sweet summit
Does he go ftd or fracture?
warm plinth
FTD
sweet summit
Big
strong forum
Mh in aoe threat shouldn't be an issue cuz IA, sigils and infernal strike are still a thing
Ye spb is big fun
sick sentinel
youre really relying on the infernal strike spam on pull with that build
strong forum
Whereas glutvop isn't
warm plinth
He's actually mentioned that he spends a very large percentage of boss fights literally shear spamming
strong forum
Yes you do
warm plinth
Which sounds like I'd rather play a monk or a druid
sick sentinel
tell him to get a @ player macro if he doesnt have one alrdy
strong forum
You sigil, ia, infernal
warm plinth
Nice ping btw Glick lol
wooden radish
@ionic fern
warm plinth
That's what the guy gets for making his discord name player!
sick sentinel
spirit bomb should probably be baseline
wooden radish
@ionic fern when are you going to get this neat crown next to your name like the one Vel has?
sick sentinel
it's been a huge crutch for the class ever siknce the rework in legion
ionic fern
I don't want a crown - it slips off my bald head.
warm plinth
If a crown slips off, how tf do you keep a santa hat on it
neon tangle
glue
ionic fern
Christmas mirracle.
warm plinth
Yeah I agree Glick. Just from a pure fun perspective it should be baseline
wooden radish
spirit bomb is fine. they need to fix Soul Cleave / Pain / their Resource System
wooden radish
its totally fucked
warm plinth
Soul Cleave should have died with Legion
It was already useless; all they had to do was just not bring it back
😄
brittle owl
soul cleave competing with SpB is also bad
sick sentinel
it's a crutch in both viabliity and fun
warm plinth
Well it's kind of a SpB problem too since in Legion SpB didn't cost pain
brittle owl
the pain cost of SpB is irelevant
warm plinth
And I wouldn't really say SC "competes" with SpB. It's just that you don't wanna overcap pain lol
So you use SC
brittle owl
the issue is SC is lackluster as a spender
sick sentinel
it's a problem period. one you could solve by just making bomb baseline. why invent some magic for SC when it already exists
brittle owl
that would solve literally 0 problems
since it doesn't adress any of the actual problems
wooden radish
that doesn't solve the underlying issue
uncut pumice
is prot ideal for leveling? currently leveling up as fury
wooden radish
the issue is that DHs are trying to find ways NOT to press Soul Cleave e.g. Spirit Bomb or Sheer Spam.
brittle owl
^
the diff is marginal between specs @uncut pumice
as prot you'll have an easier time getting into dungeons
that's kinda it
warm plinth
Unless you're doing dungeons, then prot obviously
uncut pumice
ive tanked before as a DH, whats it like as a warrior?
warm plinth
But you can also just quest/dungeon queue as DPS if you want. I did that on one of my warriors and it was a little more enjoyable.
sick sentinel
idk prot war has revenge which is a bad button to press and it's still a good and fun class to play
warm plinth
Since dungeons get old
brittle owl
how does that make any sense glickz
uncut pumice
does prot have any aoe? lightforged has good aoe as a racial but dunno if itll be good later
brittle owl
prot is prob the best aoe dps tank @uncut pumice
warm plinth
Lightforged is a good choice though; that racial pumps
brittle owl
or when you get procs
wooden radish
i meant as a rage spender but ok
brittle owl
and it also applies deep wounds, so there is a reason to press it
brittle owl
meanwhile SC has at most just some defensive value with VR
uncut pumice
does prot have any self healing?
uncut pumice
or does it need to rely on healers most of the time
brittle owl
all tanks rely on healers in the end
undone sun
prot is a proactive tank, so the vast majority of the mitigation we do is before we take damage
brittle owl
there's no 100% self suficient tank, in relevant content
wooden radish
wdym bdk in 8.3
undone sun
haHAA
brittle owl
kek
strong forum
Clearly
warm plinth
Yeah like you can be a DK and heal a fuckload but fall over on a 20 fortified if you want 👍
uncut pumice
how does prot do in M+? (+7)
undone sun
very well
strong forum
Very well
undone sun
subjective
strong forum
+7 is kinda high though don't you think
wooden radish
thyme just hates wow atm
brittle owl
compared to other tanks though, prot has a nice flow
warm plinth
Nome pls
undone sun
i mean, that doesn't change the fact that enjoyability differs from person to person
¯_(ツ)_/¯
uncut pumice
i once tanked a +7 as a DH in time
strong forum
Hey he specified +7
wooden radish
¯_(ツ)_/¯
uncut pumice
dunno how prot works
warm plinth
Sick
brittle owl
¯_(ツ)_/¯
warm plinth
For me personally, prot and VDH are very similar fun levels
wooden radish
@ionic fern ¯_(ツ)_/¯
undone sun
is it ping @ionic fern time
strong forum
Cuz they're high apm
brittle owl
@ionic fern
warm plinth
Prot just remains enjoyable as you go up in key level, whereas VDH ends up having to use a build that makes the spec very un-fun.
uncut pumice
nvm i tanked a +6 according to raider io 🤦♂️
warm plinth
Gotta start somewhere dude
strong forum
You were almost a big boi
brittle owl
the novelty of being immortal is still good
brittle owl
doesn't wear off too soon
that's why you talent LR
also the RNG bit is exagerrated
brittle owl
play well enough you don't get caught with your pants down
ionic fern
Shit's hard.
strong forum
You have a Christmas hat on
ionic fern
Yes
strong forum
Shall I get one too
warm plinth
Do you really talent LR with that build in keys? 🤔
brittle owl
yeah, why wouldnt you
ionic fern
Everyone has to have a christmas hat.
brittle owl
you want max meta uptime
wooden radish
@ionic fern group finder
strong forum
Okay, ping me in 2hrs about it when I'm home
brittle owl
@ionic fern just git gud
warm plinth
My tank uses VR I think
ionic fern
I'm gonna try VoP/Gluttony today on my VDH.
uncut pumice
does pvp heirloom sword work in dungeons? (1h)
warm plinth
All heirlooms work in dungeons
wooden radish
yes
brittle owl
should work
@warm plinth it's not boring if you do stuff that only the spec can pull off
entire TD beach, for example
ionic fern
Hey, i did that on warrior. 😦
warm plinth
I mean, pulling huge doesn't make playing the character fun (for me). It's a perk but it's not the whole package.
uncut pumice
is heirloom weapon/shield useful when you get the artifacts?
warm plinth
If you have the heirlooms fully leveled, i would just keep using the heirlooms at that point
uncut pumice
ok
neon tangle
Compare the ilvls, damage, etc
I had leveled heirloom weapons the artifact was way more spicy
the weapons also don't give you any bonus XP
@uncut pumice ^
uncut pumice
i know
neon tangle
maybe I should have tagged ghasher
warm plinth
Yeah but since you don't really get relics and shit throughout the Legion leveling experience, the heirlooms will outpace the artifacts after a few levels
neon tangle
IME you 1. do get relics, and 2. It never outpaced it until I left legion
uncut pumice
relics only increase the ilvl
warm plinth
Yeah I usually get like 1 or 2 relics which may or may not be different types during the leveling process
Yeah, that's all they do now
But ilevel means more stats so it does have an effect
uncut pumice
they do give +1 to the abilities but they dont work anymore
neon tangle
It doesn't really matter, the ilvl was way higher on my artifact, doubly so with little bonuses from the relics, regardless of abilities
warm plinth
ilevel is what determines your stat budget on your item so higher ilevel means more weapon DPS, more secondaries, etc.
uncut pumice
u dont need to worry about it untill lvl 120 imo
can be a pain to get thro the nazjatar intro if you have crap gear
neon tangle
I mean, it's far from a big optimization, I just equipped whatever had the highest ilvl
warm plinth
Sad is probably right anyway. I don't have my weapons leveled up so I always use the artifact through Legion regardless (the quest line is easy XP anyway). I just assumed it would be like every expansion level where the heirlooms are slightly outpaced but catch up fast
neon tangle
Happened to be artifact weapon for the legion levels
warm plinth
No reason not to swap according to what's better like he says though. Can always go back to the heirloom later
neon tangle
Real talk tho blizz invented the best gold sink with the transmog mount
so much gold wasted while leveling
warm plinth
I still don't have that D;
warm plinth
Or even worse, that awful heirloom armor
neon tangle
yikes
sand egret
transmog mount was the only thing i've legit farmed gold for. It was worth EVERY second.
undone sun
+1
sand egret
not looking like a clown while leveling, is optimal wow experience
undone sun
aside from TCG, it's the most expensive mount i own
sand egret
do you have the rooster
uncut pumice
is it easy to keep up aggro with 3+ mobs?
undone sun
no
undone sun
i don't
sand egret
that's the one mount i fucking want so bad
undone sun
@uncut pumice playing correctly aggro shouldn't ever be an issue
outer dew
@warm plinth I'm materialistic. When you gonna get me tmog and brutosaur
No money, no honey
warm plinth
I don't even have tmog or brutosaur, the fuck
empty nacelle
I’ll raise you your no tmog or brutosaur with my no mammoth
tame garden
Yikes
empty nacelle
I kind feel it’s the opposite of a raise though
strong forum
"IM BROKE N- IM BROKE"
empty nacelle
Every time I’ve needed one, there’s someone else conveniently AFK/mounted up nearby
tame garden
empty nacelle
Though I should probably just go buy it
strong forum
youre the kinda guy that asks for summon and waits 10 minutes instead of flying yourself arent you
brittle owl
i am also that person
tame garden
I hate you
strong forum
😑
empty nacelle
No ways, I fly lol. 123’ers are scum
brittle owl
porn ain't gonna watch itself
strong forum
i hate people like that
empty nacelle
Lmao
strong forum
yup same, its always me and my sham boi
cuz guess what
youre ALWAYS faster if you do shit yourself
brittle owl
guess who has a clear head kapp
strong forum
imagine not jacking off simultaneously
whilst in voice
to assert dominance
and stare them down in video chat even
aggressively
brittle owl
weirdchamp
empty nacelle
That’s the warrior way
tame garden
strong forum
empty nacelle
strong forum
130k isnt that expensive nowadays
and its beyond worth it
the single most useful mount ( next to your first flying mount) in the game
undone sun
AH mount is so much more than that too
near ivy
warm plinth
Nome those are actually the worst people (the summon folks)
near ivy
@warm plinth knew a guy who got full benthic + 65 neck before he got flying
then intentionally avoided getting flying
so he had an excuse to get summoned
strong forum
imagine torturing yourself
that much
farming pearls
WITHOUT A FLYING MOUNT
ontop of
FARMING PEARLS LIKE A MONGOL
strong forum
our fire mage didnt get bracers until we stopped raiding 🙂
brittle owl
you literally would have
the easiest time now
with the rep bonus
it's legit a 5 day thing
5 x 30 mins
strong forum
what do you mean 5x