So I guess I felt squishy because of the lack of kicks / poor spell reflect?
#protection
sharp rover
grim nymph
That deplete was pretty much purely on the DPS. Unless your logs are scuffed, they were fucking trash.
sharp rover
Oh, no, they were absolute garbage, but I'm more concerned with what I can improve on
grim nymph
Finding better teammates
You have people dying to stacked quaking, people dying to the berserker jumps, people dying to the explosive totem going off on fort week ?!?!
sharp rover
||I didn't even realize the boss spawned four totems, I'd only ever noticed torrent / earthwall.||
sweet summit
๐
sharp rover
I've learned a lot today, thanks
stark scroll
I think as part of the upcoming new player area, they shouldn't be allowed to leave and continue levelling until they can successfully demonstrate they know where the interrupt button is.
full cloud
I'm usually kicking ~40 in a +10
So yeah, you can definitely help yourself a lot
I have an addon that shakes my kick when a cast is happening and I pummel is off CD
my pummel*
Makes it pretty brainless
sharp rover
I think that kicking in pugs can be tough because everyone tries to kick the first cast
So two or three people waste their kicks
sharp rover
I think it's actually better to wait until the last moment
full cloud
I don't trust PUGs like that, lol
sharp rover
Both because if the mob is casting they're not doing anything else, and because it gives other people more time to jump in
full cloud
I use it ASAP so people don't waste their kick
stark scroll
Yeah that's true, I have one that displays my groups interrupts so I can see if people are using it at the same time easily or if they're on cd
full cloud
Especially if there's no voice chat
exotic spoke
You shouldnโt use your kicks ASAP btw
full cloud
Better to kick immediately and have the derpers realize they can wait
In a coordinated setting sure
But I think in a PUG it's better
tame garden
then everyone kicks if its a pug
full cloud
Right, I just don't feel like (in my experience) that it's reliable
I just end up getting triggered by nothing getting kicked
And use less kicks overall
But for sure it's better if coordinated
exotic spoke
Youโre not wrong Speg. But by kicking first up front you get one cast in a cycle. Imo just wait
sand egret
As one who's probably pugged well over 300 dungeons this expac easy, kicking late is the move
sand egret
the real move is to watch your interrupt trackers to see how people kick. If you got one twitcher and a few sleepy heads, you don't wanna clip the twitcher
full cloud
Prime example is the lay on hands type heal from those adds in Shrine of the Storm
I respect that, that is the ideal
exotic spoke
Youโd waste at most 1/5th of the the groups kicks
distant crystal
but if you know that they know that you know that they know that they always kick early
exotic spoke
Because some people are going to decide to do it later
full cloud
My feeling is that if I kick at 0.30 seconds then people won't even react by then
distant crystal
then kicking late is the play
sand egret
or they have slightly more latency and womp
exotic spoke
The less time mobs are beating me the happier I am
full cloud
I feel you, no hate here, just debate
distant crystal
just let somebody else kick the first cast ldo
there's bound to be somebody with an itchy kick finger
full cloud
:)
full cloud
;D
sand egret
another tip I do is just call it out in a non-incriminating way
"Rogue, get the heal on this"
full cloud
Oh that's way too much coordination for a PUG~ lolol
sand egret
i'm talking in PUGs
full cloud
Yeah, I'm half joking
sand egret
a huge part of why pugs fail is the tragedy of the commons imho
full cloud
Just being a bit over the top
sand egret
(this is Chapter 3 in my guide)
full cloud
Haha
sand egret
give someone ownership of something and they'll respond well more times than not. If it's everyone's game.....well they'd rather just hit Iris
modern brook
Curse of common?
Is that when you have to talk in [common] cause u picked alliance like a chump?
exotic spoke
Alliance has best m+ racials
warm plinth
But Blade
@sand egret What about when you call a kick and someone else kicks anyway? ๐
warm plinth
Assuming that just because my mark is on the target, someone else won't kick it ๐ค
exotic spoke
@warm plinth I want to murder those people that kick when I call spell reflect
exotic spoke
My push group does it at times and it hurts
It hurts so much
On one shrine we did it cost us 2.5 million damage. ON JUST THE THIRD BOSS
warm plinth
When we doing keys Riki
sick sentinel
Who has a ur
sand egret
Yeah Riki, when we doing keys?!
exotic spoke
Iโm leaving work and about to go to school
I can do one around 9-930 eastern. Horde or alliance?
@sick sentinel I think I have a 19 alliance side
sick sentinel
I need a 20 on horde side
exotic spoke
Well Probablyriki has KR12 that Iโm probably saving for a carry
stark scroll
Auto marking WA Riki? Can you link it please?
exotic spoke
Iโm on my phone. The rogue in my group has it - I donโt. I can get it tonight
stark scroll
No worries, cheers
tame garden
plate kr best key to sell
analog zinc
this late in the tier, is it better to go for random 445s or just try to get a really good set of 430s
warm plinth
Definitely 445s.
hardy mesa
Is 445 phial any good in M+?
distant crystal
tender perch
what should the stats i need on a ring be? should i focus ilvl or seconday stats and if so which
warm plinth
ilevel. Equal ilevel go for what has more haste
tender perch
what are best essences for raiding and best for m+?
hallow phoenix
CoF major, null/cns/VoP minor for raids
VoP major, cns/aegis/sphere/lucid for m+, probably forgetting some minor
Null minor is ok in like tyrannical ML
tender perch
can i spell deflect azshara's detonation?
hallow phoenix
You'll benefit from the 20% DR, but otherwise no
Arcane jolt and arcane missile can be reflected though
hasty nova
hello
any tanks on that
have tanked mythic queen azshara?
i'm getting smoked by cyrans
analog swift
Get externals for 3rd bleed
void hill
Is lingering sporepods any good?
warm plinth
void hill
lol
potent anvil
undone sun
far from good
analog swift
Yeet
hasty nova
ahhh
i wonder if i can dwarf racial bleed off?
i will try this time
pull 10 we got the two adds to 10%
distant crystal
๐
modern brook
What's the avg ilvl now a days
boreal wedge
does the haste card from mechagon drop even if your're not prot?
distant crystal
the hardmode one?
sullen valve
Daily reminder wowA is great for prot warrior
warm plinth
Punchcards donโt have a loot spec afaik. They all drop for everyone. @boreal wedge My tank ran havoc in our HM tonight and he got overclock.
tight tree
Yep i think cards are random
boreal wedge
nice, dnont want to tank if i dont have to
onyx vessel
Yup
onyx vessel
Right click your portrait on the ui like your health bar go to loot spec and switch to prot
boreal wedge
ok will try it later
strong forum
But do it before you start the dungeon
Cuz changing lootspec just before opening the chest won't do shit
Your loot spec is locked in as soon as you start the key
oblique garnet
Untrue
@strong forum You can change lootspec until last boss the moment before it dies
sick sentinel
You just have to change it before finish of the key
tribal knot
Yup
azure grove
You switch lootspecs globally.
merry cave
Anyone know where the no tornado spot on 2nd shrine boss is?
tame garden
Raised platform to the right of the boss area
merry cave
๐
boreal wedge
i dont see bastion of might used that much for some logs
they stack brace for impact instead
better for signle target?
warm plinth
Well, it's probably more because we're getting later in the tier, kill times are getting faster which can lessen the value of things like Bastion and Anger Management so people are trying things like stacking BFI and using Heavy Repercussions (for the extra SS damage)
fossil nimbus
Remember that azerite has a ton of RNG, and people wear what they have or get.
boreal wedge
yeah im seeing BFI and HR
warm plinth
I wouldn't necessarily say those things are better for the average player. It's probably just what helped them get the extra edge in the top parsing world
fossil nimbus
Like, my main still doesn't have BIS azerite despite 10+ gamble rolls for a single slot. So azerite traits are always the balance of what is a decent trait vs good ilvl.
So, it might just be the best set-up they have.
warm plinth
Well, the top parsers are typically choosing what they are using on purpose. Like the same people on the top of the logs now are the same people who were using Bastion and BoM earlier in the tier
fossil nimbus
That becomes more likely as the tier progresses, but not guaranteed.
warm plinth
I agree, but it's not just one-offs using those traits. It's like the top 10 of every boss.
Except AoE fights of course
fossil nimbus
Ah, that's fair.
You just always have to be careful about asking why an individual years the way they do. The answer is usually RNG.
If lots of people are doing it then there may be a trend.
ionic fern
More so for m+ than for raids tho.
Raids are pretty straight forward regarding bis setup
boreal wedge
i was mainly looking at meme parses
warm plinth
Mwahi what are you going to ask for for your emoji when you get one
boreal wedge
thats why some stuff might seem weird
shut summit
๐
shut summit
๐ฆ
ionic fern
F
strong forum
L
warm plinth
@ionic fern Imagine subscribing to Sense's YT and not even getting key videos ๐ฆ
ionic fern
That tbh
I remember the good old days when he still uploaded keys. ๐ฆ
Now it's just raid testing.
๐ฆ
warm plinth
Now people have to watch...uh...
idfk, do we even have prot war youtubers anymore
I uploaded an 11 Freehold on my war. Content.
warm plinth
I thought Deswind played fury or something tbh
ionic fern
Not sure..i think he had SOME prot videos as well.
warm plinth
I just can't be bothered tanking right now. I like being a mongo DPS and not having to care about anything
Including a rotation, because havoc
strong forum
I miss 8.0
Where I had higher rio than anyone in this channel :hahaa:
Cuz nobody played prot
modern brook
@warm plinth @lusty grotto wow reinstalled and ready for keys tonight :^)
modern brook
โค๏ธ
exotic spoke
Great job bull
warm plinth
Is @exotic spoke (well, itโs probably him) joining us for keys?
warm plinth
Aww yiss
sand egret
That image is a work of art
warm plinth
What can we say, Bull and I are the Da Vinci of our generation
boreal wedge
i see null dynamo being the go to minor for EP
but what if bosses have little to no magic dmg?
strong forum
Every boss has some sort of reoccurring magic dmg that will break it so you can get dmg out of it
warm plinth
Step 1, kill Doppel Ganger a few times for the spare parts card
Step 2, farm Junkwatt for like...3 hours maybe?
ebon hound
On Za'qul: Do the adds always deal magic damage or only after they transform?
warm plinth
tame garden
warped stag
Hello guys
A lil' question. On war tank , Haste > Versa > Crit ?
I'm 442 ilvl
On M+ im doing good dmg, but on raid that's kinda BAD AS FUCK.
This is my rio :)ร
warm plinth
You can sim if you're worried about damage. For survival/general purposes, just go with the highest ilevel.
warm plinth
lusty grotto
i cant read messages im in the chipcave
dark crane
anyone got a nice ui for tanking that i could coopy
lusty grotto
@warm plinth pokemon sword and shield groans
jedi fallen order groans
Nimchip is now playing Jedi Fallen Order & Pokemon Sword
tame garden
Is leech viable in 8.3?
hushed cobalt
For ML15 on fortified, is it a good idea to swap to null minor and NS for last 2 bosses? Or not needed?
warm plinth
It's not needed.
analog zinc
i'd always run null minor in motherlode, there's so much trash that does magic dmg
warped stag
i always take null minor in any case lmao, am i wrong ?
warm plinth
It's not great in dungeons you can't consistently proc it afaik
Like Freehold
Especially weeks where the brinescales are disabled
sick sentinel
There isn't that much magic damage in the first part of the dungeon
opaque shuttle
Hey guys, I see a lot a people running Memory of Lucid Dream major and VoP major for mm+, how do I make my choice ?
sick sentinel
where you'd want to kill everything anyway
Lucid Dream Major is more meant for if you are planning ahead and doing big pulls
While VoP is easier to go by as you just play how you'd normally play
opaque shuttle
ok ok ty ๐
sick sentinel
It funnels a lot of leech, rage for avatar gen and vers on demand
opaque shuttle
And if I'm running Lucid dream / VoP as major and lucid dream / vop and c&s am i good ?
sick sentinel
Yup
warm plinth
You shouldn't be running Lucid dream as major
hallow phoenix
Lucid major can pump on really really big pulls
hallow phoenix
40 seconds of avatar
sick sentinel
VoP isn't a go to for everything
lusty grotto
๐ช ๐
hallow phoenix
I feel like we've talked about this before
sick sentinel
We have
warm plinth
This is the same bullshit as yesterday. You're taking a general question and turning it into a niche situation. The average player who is not doing fuckin MDI pulls is not going to use dumb shit like Lucid major
random urchin
^
sick sentinel
?
I'd answer'd it perfectly
I said if you plan ahead and do big pulls, you'd use it
some people*
Obviously he probably isn't going to do that
so why use it
?
warm plinth
You said
opaque shuttle
Yeah I was just asking because I see a lot of logs with lucid dream as major so I just wanted to know
Why
hallow phoenix
warm plinth
My issue is telling the average person asking questions in here things that are only for niche situations that they're probably never going to be in
sick sentinel
They asked for that nice situation though
niche*
Because they wanted to know why
....
hallow phoenix
He asked specifically about lucid...
lusty grotto
listen ghash i dont like mvpgtism either but he's right
warm plinth
I understand that he asked about lucid. But "planning ahead and doing big pulls" is vague as fuck
warm plinth
Big pulls means different things to different people
warm plinth
Alright, I'm not gonna argue about it. If the guy was satisfied with the answer, then fine. I just see that shit in here every day where people walk away thinking that x is acceptable to use
When it's not for most people
lusty grotto
yeah i saw it too
but in this case they explained it correctly
as long as there's no misunderstanding it's fine
hallow phoenix
warm plinth
Fine, then I'm done. Just overreacted. Sorry.
lusty grotto
i feel the rage ghash, are you ready to rage on keys
tame garden
lusty grotto
i can feel your anger, it makes you stronger, gives you focus
warm plinth
I don't even know what you're playing anymore
lusty grotto
tf
warm plinth
The last thing I saw you doing was on a rogue so
lusty grotto
im playing chef of course
warm plinth
Then we're gonna have two tanks, or three if Bull is also playing war
Fuck it I'll play my war too
Get us a healer and we are fucking some shit up
I'd say another warrior but I'm bad
tame garden
5 prot
lusty grotto
excuse me
tame garden
warm plinth
Oh Bull plays rogue?
lusty grotto
Riki doesn't play horde, you're confusing Mayberiki
warm plinth
Probablyriki*
lusty grotto
MAYBERIKI
warm plinth
LIKELYRIKI
lusty grotto
its cuter cmon
lusty grotto
Traitorriki
lusty grotto
eww
signal plover
Cheekibriki?
warm plinth
What time we doing this shit anyway
warm plinth
@exotic spoke when does that guy that might be you get off work?
lusty grotto
since i gotta fucking go to best buy and buy pokemon fast
we dont need riki cmon
you have the chef
๐
warm plinth
We can start without him if heโs gonna be late
warm plinth
@modern brook what about you
warm plinth
Also when are you buying me a switch and Pokรฉmon so I can play with you Nim
craggy junco
Hey prot bois I've been trying to play prot more in m+ and I feel like I have too much rage to spend, all the time. I know general rule is to never overcap, but I'll have be using shield block every time it runs out and ignore pain then I can't dump on revenge because I keep getting free procs am I doing something wrong?
lusty grotto
if you have that amount of rage you can still dump it on IP
remember if you use rage you will activate AM
so its beneficial as long as you don't use it over SB on blockable situations
... using IP, that is
revenge isn't really a reliable rage dump "technically"
as you have noticed
so yeah
rugged gust
Whatโs the best way to get a decent shield for a fresh 120? Unfortunately Iโve already done the first conquest cap and got a different weapon so thatโs out of the question
signal plover
Prolly just saying all that matters on shield is the ilvl
modern brook
Who tf says I play rogue
warm plinth
chip
modern brook
๐คทโโ๏ธ
lusty grotto
๐ฎ
modern brook
@rugged gust yeah just set to tank spec and run shit that drops shields
not much else you can do
wooden radish
@ionic fern hi ๐
ionic fern
When will you give it up @wooden radish ?:(
wooden radish
exotic spoke
@warm plinth I wonโt be home until at least 10. Going to DC for drinks with a friend
Also - Probablyriki is a great name
modern brook
Probablysober
warm plinth
@lusty grotto Spoiler tag in case this isn't appropriate but check this shit out:
craggy junco
Thanks @lusty grotto I didn't think about AM. I'll try that.
warm plinth
Right. I'm sure.
exotic spoke
I do have a problem. The problem is chip
warm plinth
He's not even answering my pings to look at memes
exotic spoke
Cause he realizes it
rapid fable
Hey guys, I have a Mag'har Orc and I'm playing prot. Should I just macro the racial (random stat for 15s) with avatar and forget about it or is there a better use of that?
warm plinth
That's what I do, though I'm sure it's not really optimal lol
lusty grotto
@warm plinth you son of a
warm plinth
๐๐๐๐๐
lusty grotto
Are we doing this?
warm plinth
idk if Bull is around. I'm doing a few islands quick then I should be good
lusty grotto
Where's bull though
@modern brook
@modern brook
@modern brook
the summon has begun!
modern brook
@lusty grotto @warm plinth I'm gunna bitch out.
lusty grotto
jesus christ]
full gulch
Hi all.. I wanna tank as prot....are they viable choice in general and for future patches?
mild river
Yes
full gulch
What about magic dmg?
ionic fern
Magic damage is a pain for all the tanks.
We have plenty of tools to deal with it - Demo Shout / SR / SW / LS/IP .
full gulch
Seems not to monks and dk's
ionic fern
To monks and DK's as well.
Just not to such an extent due to their mitigation tools - BDK can just heal it up to some extent and monk just staggers it.
full gulch
I wanted to go monk or paladin but warrior...I can feel them
ionic fern
I mean..no matter what tank you play you won't be held back by your class choice.
All the tanks are viable to do all the content.
ivory barn
I play fury a lot on this toon, but I switched to prot (to help my raid team). Other than switching enchants/gems to haste. are rings with gems better for prot than rings w/o gems? I have 2 rings with gems that I can also use
ivory barn
Is there a way (from ym post above) to give all the gear I have. for the best outcome survival wise?
novel leaf
send a top gear
ionic fern
Simc addon and raidbots.
novel leaf
its easier to see what you run
ionic fern
Okay...i mean paste the input yhere and make a screenshot.:)
limpid pawn
What are the highest simming head pieces/shoulders
ionic fern
In general it's easy..ilvl is the king so you pick the highest ilvl ones.
@ivory barn
limpid pawn
On wow logs I see people using heavy repercussions with 3x BFI
ionic fern
It's when the fight length favours HR over AM..shorter fight mean you won't get a extra cast of Avatar out even with AM.
ivory barn
Even at sacrificing haste and vers?
limpid pawn
Those bastards
ionic fern
Jeah.;(
ivory barn
so what about the Socket debate?
ionic fern
@ivory barn yes. Exceptions can pieces that grant little or no main stat like rings/back/wrists etc
Dps wise trust the sims from raidbots.
Survival wise just prioritize ilvl in most pieces. Trait wise Iron Fortress,Brace for impact,1x Deafening are all decent
ionic fern
Okay..first things first..survival comes from 99% your own play
Any traits won't make or brake it.
Raptor king Bfi,Bloodsport,Op.
Cthraxxi IF,Swirling Sands,Op
Desert guardian BoM,DC,x
For example
Bloodsport in general is a "meh" trait but if you aim for survival it does more than the other 2 in that row.
ivory barn
that would be the go to 3 pieces then. and that makes sense with BS
ionic fern
Just remember that gameplay/fight knowledge makes the biggest difference so do your prep.
ivory barn
alrighty, Thank you for all the help
novel leaf
neato
ivory barn
would you go Desert Gaurdian or Vengful chestplate?
ivory barn
stupid question.... thanks for the stupid awnser ๐
what dies the x on the desert Gaurdian mean?
warm plinth
Pick what you want
ivory barn
thanks
ionic fern
I pick you Ghash. 
warm plinth
Thanks?
ionic fern
ionic fern
Best muppet.
I heard that if you say Senses name 3x in a dark room he shows up and makes a sick burn.
warm plinth
Like saying is your emoji? Is that how that happened?
ivory barn
.< I think I need more mastery instead of 28.6% unbuffed haste >.<
ionic fern
Yes.:(
warm plinth
I think you're worried way too much about stats
ionic fern
That tbh
warm plinth
Way to go on that 1% vers Mwahi
ionic fern
Thanks. Gotta have it.๐
warm plinth
ionic fern
Stats are really close together in value and there are no reachable brakepoints for them so don't stress about them too much. If you have a choice on same ilvl pieces pick the one with haste and that's about it.
6% haste wat
Vers*
Where do you find that gear.
๐
warm plinth
My M+ cache
warm plinth
It's all from this bad boy
ivory barn
not to burst that bubble.... ๐
fossil nimbus
I mean, in terms of haste, wouldn't there be a theoretical break point where you can finally use SB 3x with 0 downtime?
warm plinth
Yes but it's easier to say there are no breakpoints because if you say there is a breakpoint, then people think it means they have to reach said breakpoint
Oof
fossil nimbus
Fair.
warm plinth
My good titanforges are all on my DH. Got a 455 socketed vers/haste ring on that toon
fossil nimbus
Noob question. Does IP count as active mitigation for AM checks?
warm plinth
No, but we don't have any AM checks in BFA
ionic fern
That's why i said "no REACHABL brakepoints".:d
I miss AM checks..they were fun.
Watching some random pug tank just get 1 shot and you're like "jep..he forgot to use his AM".
warm plinth
Isn't that reachable though Mwahi ๐ค
25% haste = 12 sec CD on Shield Block, which means after 2 SBs you'd be able to cast another immediately. Or is math too hard for me and I should leave it to the TC role
The bad AM checks were like the first boss of Vault though
Where if the tank fucked up, you got the shield
warm plinth
Imagine having good things for tanks
sand egret
lol shuuus take you swap at X stacks and youโll like it!
stark scroll
I liked the ones with a knockback, seeing pug tanks that don't have a charge just go flying
sand egret
yeah, I remember doing that one in particular and being fine...then pugging it at the first time as a dps saw my tank go flying...turns out I had no idea it was an AM check
warm plinth
Or better, when AM checks are glitched and you send bosses flying ๐
dusky mica
AM didn't glitch it though, it was spell reflect
but I see what you mean, it was pretty funny
undone sun
It was both
He only went flying if you didn't have sb up
I have a video of it but it shows an old variation of my ui and it's ugly
boreal wedge
what's our raid opener with clf?
saw somewhere that u taunt mid charge too?
i'm also using coral
oblique garnet
CLF? ๐ค
onyx vessel
Clf on prot would be pretty hot
oblique garnet
You can get it with new essences but doubt its worth it over crucible
sick sentinel
You cof on pull with coral
into avatar
and you use the second cof after avatar
never use CoF during it
exotic rapids
What are your thoughts on reckless fury as azerite trait for prot?
I have to decide between incite the pack and reckless fury
for m+ btw
exotic rapids
k thx so gonna go with incite
sick sentinel
http://prntscr.com/pxqvg3 I couldn't beat a warrior :/
oblique garnet
@potent anvil You actually have 450 rezans?
strong forum
Double tank lmao
sick sentinel
We were PUMPING the key
winged grail
For 17+ keys, am I better off swapping my Socketed 450 Gorecrusted Block for a Socketed 430 Edict of the Faithless?
sick sentinel
what's your second piece
boreal wedge
Why is shield slam 51/42 casts?
warm plinth
Possibly due to resets? That's a question for @sullen valve
white valley
Yeah, I'd assume that you were above average in your procs.
Unsure whether the 42 casts is based off either hard cd, or hard cd + average procs. Either way, RNG with Shield Slam can and has put you over.
warm plinth
It's based off of average CD of the ability over the course of the fight, but I imagine that's more for abilities that can have their CD reduced (e.g. Avatar via Anger Management), not abilities that can have a proc reset.
boreal wedge
oh yes i was using devestator too
prob prcs for the extra casts
and i was watching that skill like a hawk
warm plinth
Got some things you can work on though. Razor coral usage, CoF usage
boreal wedge
Yeah lots to work on, was just getting a feel of tanking early EP
Havenโt analyzed logs
Of other tanks for timings etc
Wasnโt tanking actuallly was more memeing
warm plinth
๐ Sounds like you want to improve and that's the biggest part of it
boreal wedge
Just need to replace my 385 shield then I can properly start
warm plinth
Yeah I saw that. Unlucky lol
oblique garnet
Keys give good practice for basic rotation for tanking helps you get used to it more so than raids
warm plinth
Youโre a basic rotation
oblique garnet
@warm plinth floorpov
warm plinth
Touchรฉ
potent anvil
@oblique garnet yeah, got it last week. Been spamming WCM for a 450+ block. Nothing so far
oblique garnet
well atleast you dont have a socket in every piece this time around 8)
potent anvil
Soon
oblique garnet
I only need sockets in couple of pieces and im already there 8)
winged grail
@sick sentinel A bloodthirsty urchin 435
hard cipher
How good are those raid trinkets in terms of survival?
Should I just farm those
M+ wise
sturdy oracle
sullen valve
@boreal wedge the reason is due to unlogged resets and me not thinking I can effect that but I might be able to. I've just been lazy .-.
exotic rapids
how would you guys suggest handling the grp with the void+serpents after the 1st boss
if deathskipping is not an option
strong forum
edict + urchin are absolute BIS if youre going for surival
exotic rapids
in TOS
terse dragon
They might do some tuning for mechagon for m+
fossil nimbus
@exotic rapids Pull the pack back so they don't drop the clouds on the void.
LOS it at the base of the ramp, then take the void.
Sucks, but safe.
terse dragon
@exotic rapids the void isn't tied to the pack if you pull the far right serpent with taunt, heroic throw should be good enough
exotic rapids
alright thank you
terse dragon
I use taunt, but yeah you just drag it down after and the void won't be in combat
exotic rapids
i always pull with taunt if I want to separate a void#
somehow they get in combat if i ht
fossil nimbus
I always pull with taunt because I used to play a monk and I keep expecting the mob to haul ass to me.
cinder fern
You can split that pack if you taunt pull the closest mob, no?
fossil nimbus
So, it's likely possible to take it all at once if you have a super pro rogue who can lock down every cast of dust cloud.
Because I'm pretty sure it's a stunnable cast.
But I only pug, so I've never tried it because I don't have that much faith.
exotic rapids
Probably smart ๐
boreal wedge
no enchant on shields right? only weapon
sweet summit
nothing for shield, no
boreal wedge
hmm how do i track the debuffs stacks on the offtank to know when to tank swap?
shut summit
weakauras typically
distant crystal
bigwigs will usually cover it for ya
signal plover
If u use BW for it I'd reccomend emphasizing it in the settings.
I prefer WAs for it tbh
vestal edge
Do you guys use a strength gem or just gem 50 haste
warm plinth
Both str gems then haste
Pretty sure everyone at least uses the 120 gem though
Or should be anyway
waxen cradle
I don't know about you guys but more strength means I can smash things with my forehead harder
torn sleet
what ilvl should you be to comfortably tank m10s with pugs?
warm plinth
Depends on the week I guess. The shittier the affixes, the higher ilevel to be comfortable imo lol
torn sleet
do you have a rough idea of the ilvl though?
stark scroll
415-420 ish would be fine. That isn't however going to be high enough to get you invited to most pugs.
torn sleet
thanks! i'll shoot for 430
sick sentinel
if experienced i guess over 400 should be fine but 430 is for sure enough
stark scroll
Yeah 430s gonna be safe enough, pugs have a lot of applicants usually and some will have high ilvls and rio, so you tend to need to be overgeared to get accepted. If you're making your own group of course that doesn't matter.
warm plinth
.
grave marsh
a meme stat lmao
sweet sequoia
Haste / versatility or Haste/ Mastery as a priori that works for both damage output and survivability?
warm plinth
Mastery is never a stat you go for on purpose, unless it's on your highest ilevel gear. Either haste/crit for M+, or haste/vers for raids
For survival, ilevel wins out. For damage you can sim if that's all you care about
coral marsh
next patch will be aids when only mythic raids drop highest itemlevel, i think i will skip 8.3
coral marsh
i already hated benthic and played tank to circumvent that crap with ilvl
sick sentinel
I still use benthic
took me one day to get socked shit for it
people are just lazy fucks
lol
Of course, I use ilvl in M+
coral marsh
people just dont like grinding braindead worldquests for bis gear
warm plinth
Honestly my problem with it is that I don't like having to use lower ilevel gear to improve my character. It was my number 1 beef with tier sets
coral marsh
that as well of course
warm plinth
Stuck with tier gear 30+ ilevels below your highest ilevel shit because the bonus was too good. It was (and is) dumb.
I avoid benthic mattering by not raiding though ๐
sick sentinel
world quests?
I mean some of it is world quests but most of it is a like 4/5 quests that take 5 minutes each
then you're done for the day
stark scroll
Or I could do something I enjoy instead, and make do with being suboptimal until 8.3
coral marsh
idk i like titanforging and the only people who hate it seem to be the mythic raiders who want to outgear everything just because they mythic raid even though first 3 to 5 bosses are free loot
ionic fern
@coral marsh people hate titanforging because it literally does the opposite of hard work = reward. Imagine working your ass off for something to get it and then someone else does twice as little and gets even a better one.
That's just dumb design.
stark scroll
I don't mythic raid and I hate titanforging because it makes me feel obligated to run content on multiple difficulties because it's still possible to get an upgrade.
ionic fern
Well,sad thing is that the new corrupted system won't be any better.
It's just tf with extra steps.
warm plinth
At least it's temporary
ionic fern
Jeah.
warm plinth
But tbh not having something like TF is not going to be a good thing unless they come up with some way to get equal gear from M+
stark scroll
Yeah, they're replacing it with the same so it's kinda redundant. Warforging was fine, and I think m+ should scale more so you could get equivalent to mythic raid gear at high enough levels.
coral marsh
well its even more stupid to make it so trash mythic guilds that farm first 3 bosses are better than any mythic+ player
analog swift
Exactly
People try to say raiding mythic is harder than M+ and yeah azshara is.
But most mythic gear is from first three anyway
ionic fern
And it's honest that my alts who have not touched mythic ,have like 3x less played time than my main and who i only do a weekly +10 on are the same ilvl or higher than the character i soend the most of my time on farming high m+ and mythic raida?
warm plinth
Only way we get a semi-fair loot system is if Blizzard determines that x level key is equivalent to y level raid and set gear rewards accordingly
coral marsh
and makes first 5 mythic bosses actually mythic level hard or nerfs the rewards to heroic
warm plinth
Because it's not good to have M+ players just locked at a lower level of gear no matter how high they go either.
That's not gonna be any better than titanforging, because then people start to not play the game anymore
stark scroll
Multiple avenues for the gear imo, the top tier gear from raids, PvP and M+ should be the same. They just need to balance it better.
warm plinth
Having maximum M+ rewards from a +10 was dumb af anyway
coral marsh
even more dumb to make raiding better than mythic+ period
warm plinth
I don't disagree with that.
ionic fern
Can't have the ilvl higher since otherwise why raid at all if m+ which is repeatable content drops the same ilvl as mythic raids tho
It's a fine balance they gotta find.
warm plinth
So you'd rather cling to making highest ilevel gear from raids and then all the M+ players who don't want to raid just quit as soon as they complete their gear for the season?
ionic fern
Won't be able to please everyone regardless
warm plinth
I don't care about pleasing everyone; I care about not killing the game by making it not accessible
ionic fern
They won't. ๐ค
warm plinth
You have to have multiple avenues of progress or the game won't survive.
coral marsh
or at least make mythic raiding crossrealm and remove the group id so you can pug first 5 bosses
ionic fern
Wow survived just fine before m+.
warm plinth
That doesn't mean that spurning the M+ players is the right course of action. Now that you introduce M+ as a competitive gear source, you alienate a lot of players if you take that away
ionic fern
Jeah,ofc hence why i said they gotta find a fine balance.
warm plinth
But you're not talking about balance; you're talking about mythic raiding being the highest ilevel
coral marsh
the balance was that mythic dropped base itemlevel while you needed to grind lucky forges in mythic+, as well as better trinkets
ionic fern
Regardless of how it is mytbic raiding will provide better gear already because you gotta get 20 people together instead of just 5.
coral marsh
i dont see why more people should reward better loot
warm plinth
Neither do I
coral marsh
in a 5 man everyone has actually more weight while in 20 some can leech a bit
warm plinth
Especially as the tier progresses
ionic fern
Ooof.
Same can be said about m+. ๐ค So in your mind what should they do to fix it? Make mythic ilvl gear drop from repeatable content?
warm plinth
I think that Mythic+ should have the potential to drop mythic level gear, but only if you do high enough keys.
Eh I mean, that's never gonna happen. You need a curve; no one wants to hit a wall on every single raid boss.
That's not fun; it's frustrating.
ionic fern
Sure..fair Enough. Now the issue is..what's "high enough" ..also they would have to up that "high enough" every few months as the gear gets better etxetc
warm plinth
That's what I was saying earlier. They will have to make the determination of what is high enough to be worthy of Mythic level gear
coral marsh
what keystone level is euqivalent to shivarra difficulty?
warm plinth
And I'm fine with them adjusting it as scaling changes
Frankly though they can do whatever they want. I'll either play or I won't, and it won't matter to anyone but me lol
warm plinth
I'm sure lol
I'll be entertained until I cap out and then probably won't care anymore. I have no real urge to grind a paragon so I can equip more gear
ionic fern
I'm still at 66 neck.
warm plinth
Not even max neck right now lol
ionic fern
๐
warm plinth
I'm at 69 1/2 or so, but only because I've been doing islands out of boredom the last couple of days while I wait for this horrible M+ week to be over
ionic fern
Jep..i'm just hovering around atm as well not really doing anything mostly because therre's nothing else enjoyable to do for now
Probably gonna level a warlock.
warm plinth
Not gonna quit yet because I do want to check out 8.3, so I'm just kinda here :p
Gross. Why
ionic fern
It was my very first lvl 60 char wayyy back when vanillla came out. Always has a spot in my heart.:D
warm plinth
I used a free 110 boost to boost one in Legion. I have logged on enough to do a few legion assaults and get to 111. That's about it.
ionic fern
๐
warm plinth
I tried to play it in Legion a few times too but it was just really bleh
ionic fern
Welll...still more fun than it is now.
warm plinth
Actually, it's the only class I don't have a 120 of now that I think about it.
ionic fern
๐
warm plinth
I went leveling crazy a few times this expansion ๐
ionic fern
I'm.missing..mage/warlock i think.
warm plinth
I have uh...2 warriors, 2 druids, a shaman, a DK, 2 monks, a priest, 2 paladins, 2 DH, 1 mage, and 1 rogue
So I guess I'm missing hunter too; mine is only 111
ionic fern
I despise leveing tho so i always try to do it in like 2 days max. Just sit down and grind it out.
Why do you have 2 of some classes? Faction?
warm plinth
Except for the monks, yeah
I had two 110 monks in Legion because I don't like playing two specs on the same toon. And for whatever reason decided to level both of them in BfA lol
ionic fern
I have not leveled a horde in bfa yet..probably should just to see the story and stuff
๐
warm plinth
Oh you're alliance?
It's okay if you have flying but I would avoid it if you don't lol
ionic fern
Hah.:D
warm plinth
I leveled my first horde toon (my mage) before flying came out and it was so bad
ionic fern
Jeah,i swapped to alliance like mid legion
warm plinth
Ah okay. I started from scratch in Legion as alliance and ended up going Horde a while back (in BFA). So I releveled a lot of stuff
Some of them I did just for the heritage armor lol
warm plinth
Later
wooden radish
@ionic fern good night
sleek flax
hi guys!
i've a question ๐
someone can help me with essences for prot warr?
to make m+ 10 or 11
im 432 ilvl
sick sentinel
VoP major
Lucid, aegis, CNS, sphere minors
Null for high tyran ML and High fort Shrine
hallow phoenix
really should just sticky a post with that info
undone sun
๐ค
sweet summit
55
blazing condor
so aegis trumps cns as long as there are 5 mobs or more per pack?
sweet summit
aegis with 7 mobs is 420, CnS with 8 stacks is 440. so 8 or more mobs
sweet summit
70 per stack on aegis
blazing condor
ye
lilac bough
Hi Guys, for Mythic + content only. New Protection warrior learning, low keys 10-15, which of these you will recommend me to use?
hallow phoenix
I would rezan+overclock
void hill
Is Victory Rush worth casting if your health is full?
potent anvil
No, it lasts like 20s I think? So just save it until you need the heal.
void hill
and if i stay full then never use it and let it expire?
potent anvil
Yeah.
void hill
ty
hallow phoenix
I use it when full hp because I like to get bigger with the glyph
potent anvil
Oh, I guess if you have Bury the Hatchet, probably spend the GCD to get the physical absorb.
limpid pawn
guys, for the orgozoa fight, does the abberation belt sim higher if you are the tank on the adds - mythic
my dps actually was lower than before but I can't tell if it's because the adds are getting annihilated quicker by my team (they are) or because of the belt
i have both benthic belts
wooden radish
@ionic fern
ionic fern
@wooden radish 
boreal lantern
Is prot warrior pretty straightforward and forgiving for mythic+ ? Feel like getting into tanking again and have the option to play anything. Looking at brew and prot paladin as well. Warrior seems to have a great dps offspeed in Fury
warm plinth
@boreal lantern Straightforward, I think so. Definitely not forgiving though. You mess up and you're at best going to take a lot of unnecessary damage.
limpid pawn
Warrior is proactive tank, compared to reactive for other specs like death knight
So no, itโs not forgiving I think
boreal lantern
Cool thanks.
limpid pawn
You have to known when the big hits are going to be coming
deft gazelle
what traits should i be going for in M+ and whats the difference in raid ones
boreal lantern
Wowhead has some decent info on azerite traits and essences @deft gazelle
deft gazelle
yeah ill check it out, thanks just wanted to make sure thats whats optimal
boreal lantern
I'm not expert ๐
sweet summit
for m+ go: VoP Major and Aegis/CnS/Shpere/Null/Lucid minors
for raid go: Flame Major and Null+CnS/Sphere/VoP minors
deft gazelle
yeah essences i know its pretty much same for most tanks, expect m+ major, but i mean traits, atm im running 3 x BoM 1x DC, and only other decents ones i have is brace for impact and blood sport
sick sentinel
does phial of arcane tempest even fall within good dps drinkets for prot
sweet summit
oh i read essences
deft gazelle
i use phial on pala and monk and its good dps not sure for war i assume its around the same
warm plinth
It's like...okay Sc0ots
sweet summit
blood sport isnt that good
warm plinth
Not great though
sick sentinel
even socketed would u use it over computation?
warm plinth
Computation with what cards
deft gazelle
yh i should mention mine are 450 with sockets xD
so its better then what i have on them
sick sentinel
overclock and a 170 haste 57 vers
deft gazelle
untill i get coral
warm plinth
What ilevel is it?
sick sentinel
430 socket phial and comp is 410
warm plinth
Probably phial. What's in the other slot?
sick sentinel
430 rezans
warm plinth
Ah okay
@boreal lantern @deft gazelle Neither website guide is going to really give you the whole story on azerite traits. Wowhead does well by suggesting 3x BoM and 1x DC, but their list is a combined survival/offensive list and not entirely accurate imo. Icy-veins is more geared toward raiding survivability and puts a lot of focus on war-specific traits, despite some generics actually being really good for us.
deft gazelle
yeah which is why im here ๐
warm plinth
I know Cata said M+ but what content are you doing baldoor?
deft gazelle
both but mainly m+ would like to know them both
warm plinth
For M+, the foundation of 3x BoM and 1x DC is invaluable. That's most of your damage and survivability (from traits) in 4 traits.
deft gazelle
yeah was the same in season 2 i got to 2.2k raider io before i had to stop ๐ฆ
only just coming back to war
warm plinth
The other two (ideally) would be a combination of Iron Fortress (especially if you have a low ilevel shield), Meticulous Scheming, Brace for Impact, or Swirling Sands. Inner ring priority would be too long to list but your best two are Overwhelming Power and Unstable Flames
deft gazelle
thank you, is there much difference for raiding ?
warm plinth
Raiding depends strongly on what kind of raider you are/need to be for your group. You could get by with the same traits as M+ pretty easily in the average guild. If you're shooting for maximum damage (which are the only real changes people tend to make in raiding), then you would go for some more damage oriented talents/traits, especially on the ST fights.
So if you look at logs, you'll see Devastator run a lot on a lot of fights, people using Reckless Flurry traits, that sort of thing.
They're just maximizing ST damage
deft gazelle
i normally go for as much damage as i can, surv isnt really needed thats what healers are for ๐
but thanks for the info
warm plinth
Just be careful about looking at logs right now
I'm not an expert but you're gonna see a lot of Heavy Repercussions and BFI if you look at the top logs atm. I am not an expert but pretty sure that's because kill times are really fast for those guys, so they beat out some of the more commonly used traits/talents.
Probably wouldn't apply for you
deft gazelle
our dps isnt great at the mo but theyre still learning QC we've not had many pulls on it due to being melee heavy so we reworked a few people, would reckless fury still work with auto attacks despite it being fury spec?
warm plinth
Yeah, RF works (the auto attack part) for prot.
deft gazelle
nice never knew that thanks
would booming voice still be more dps and rage generation in raids over destate?
warm plinth
You typically use Devastator any time you would use Reckless Flurry and vice versa. Both do the same thing.
waxen talon
what would a normal a tank ranking for Raiding look like rn?
dusky mica
ranking for what? dps?
strong forum
Brew >> prot war > prot pally / vdh/ guardian >bdk
Imo
But all tanks are very close besides brew being ahead by alot
ocean acorn
so i just got a socketed 430 dreams end. is that better than a 445 royal scaleguard's battleaxe?
sweet summit
probably not
ocean acorn
k
wheat talon
honestly, having just switched from vdh to prot warrior, I'd put vdh below bdk, they just have so few tools to keep themselves alive
dps is good though
distant crystal
i think vision + gluttony
is the vdh stay alive play
but then you don't do good dps
inland mesa
We are 8/8 with a bdk, never felt they were that bad off
I'd put them up over guardian and vdh
Wheres our heal for 2% of your health every melee weapon for next tier :(
oblique garnet
vdh is definitely stronger than bdk
inland mesa
Really o.O. late next tier scares me I've started dusting off the brew
Arent there a ton of add fights next tier as well where bdk helps?
inland mesa
Have you been ptr testing? I've heard its felt rough as it's a lot of magic
And Skitra is scary
distant crystal
the ptr tester boys seem to be loving bdk
inland mesa
which have you been watching
I'm not looking forward to one shot the entire raids coming back ;-/
wheat talon
we did BoD and TEP with me as a vdh and the other tank as a bdk, and it was fine all the way through, but I definitely felt like I had to put in a lot more effort to get roughly the same amount of survivability
also it's absurd how much harder to kill my prot warrior is
oblique garnet
@inland mesa skitra is w/e it hurts all the tanks because the boss is overtuned
warm plinth
You're overtuned
wheat talon
do y'all use a weakaura to let you know when vision of perfection activates? I feel like I might be occasionally missing it
warm plinth
I don't but it's probably not a bad idea, just so you don't accidentally activate Avatar during a proc.
wheat talon
I mean, it also changes the rotation pretty significantly, right?
strong forum
not really
you just see CD on TC lower
if you use it on CD ( as you should ) nothing changes
warm plinth
Yeah tbh I don't really consciously go "oh, VoP activated", but I do notice when TC is coming off CD faster lol.
wheat talon
yeah, I guess I'm slamming TC as often as possible, so I'm probably not missing a lot
topaz pollen
Hello all! I'm rolling prot for 8.3 raiding and I was wondering what you veterans think of the spec for progression raiding (guild is 3/8 M) and what is something you learned about the spec that really helped you when you started out on it.
strong forum
you cant do shit after the fact
you need to do everything before you take dmg
not after
thats the most baseline tip i can give for a newbie
sand egret
^ you need to be proactive more than any other tank
topaz pollen
Good advice, I'm finding that to be the case as I'm gearing up and doing mythics and raids
sick sentinel
has the k value/block reduction increased in the current tier vs M BoD?
strong forum
always does
sick sentinel
11k
strong forum
so yes
sick sentinel
ah kk I wasnt sure if it was constant scaling
ivory barn
is there a way to sim all races?
sick sentinel
People linking me heroic parses to do keys ๐ญ
dusky mica
would a raiding parse from any spec be useful at all
near ivy
anybody who can link a raiding parse that is good enough to matter has a relevant io score or is known to the community
spice ferry
@ivory barn i think bloodmallet may show you sims of all racials
fossil nimbus
Tbh if a person's io is a bit low for the key I'll look at their raid progress.
Like, 7-8nmythic boss kills is worth some amount of io to me.
But I don't check parses.
daring marlin
idgaf about your raid prog at all it's all about the IO baby
brittle owl
i took someone who linked CE in legion and had a bad io score
never again lmao
mythic raiding has almost zero crossover into m+
spice ferry
if the raid is current tier i think you can kinda rely on it, if its old shit then no way
brittle owl
raiding in general
brittle owl
you can't really, unless they just spam one dungeon on +10 for weekly
even then, still poop
dark crane
is there a good addon or website to for routes?
sick sentinel
experience
analog swift
Ehhhh if the guy has a 1K io but is 8/8M heโll probably be fine in a 13
sick sentinel
everyone can do a+13
literally people who have 7/8h can do a 13
lol
Not the most optimal way, but mmore than likely they can do it
sick sentinel
what's the soft cap on haste?
No cap
go for however much haste you want
Ilvl is king though
im 31% right now i wasnt sure if i should start dumping into other stuff instead lol seems high unbuffed
but i dont know sheeeeeeeeit
Literally just go for ilvl
that's all that matters
ooker dooker
ty
light fulcrum
Hey, i found a list for spells reflectable form all bosses in m+. Does anyone of you have/know if such a list exists for trash? Just saw someone on stream reflect a spell in ML i didnt know about and was wondering what else i missed
undone sun
each instance has a notable trash mob section on the bottom right
that's assuming you're talking about the reflect list mentioned in #268491842637660160
exotic spoke
Hi friends