I don't think that's how it works
#protection
warm plinth
warm plinth
Yeah fucking RIP Stewart
warm plinth
Bring back Stewart pfp
lusty grotto
its gonna be super hard now
cause
pokemon and fallen order come out this week
plus the elephant in the room
a 15 year old elephant
warm plinth
What
lusty grotto
a 15 year old elephant phase 2
warm plinth
Stahp
warm plinth
warm plinth
What got released with phase 2?
lusty grotto
eh
warm plinth
Or 15, I forget
Can you believe I started like 3 days before they removed PvP titles from the game?
lusty grotto
im really not gonna grind
warm plinth
🙃
lusty grotto
but
warm plinth
Never even got the chance
lusty grotto
i like hit squadding
warm plinth
Stewart could fuck up your lil bitch squad
warm plinth
Are you that guy who goes to STV and ganks lowbies?
lusty grotto
no
warm plinth
Don't lie to me Nim
lusty grotto
i defend the lowbies
warm plinth
Stewart will tell me
Alright that's fair
Is the arena on classic btw?
Idk when that came out
lusty grotto
yep
warm plinth
I bet it's brutal on classic
You're almost unopposed these days if you get a good shard lol
lusty grotto
really no reason to do it unless if you want to twink...
warm plinth
Why would you not have a 19 rogue twink on classic
lusty grotto
and twinking is pretty fucking useless before phase 3
warm plinth
Why's that?
warm plinth
Oh they're putting in honor but not BGs yet?
lusty grotto
that's how it was in vanilla
warm plinth
BGs already existed when I started in vanilla
lusty grotto
honor first, then BGs (WSG and AV only)
warm plinth
I only played vanilla for like 3 months or something before TBC was released
lusty grotto
yeah at that point twinks were retarded lol
i have a krol blade burning a hole in my bank alt
waiting for p3
then ill sell for maximum profit
sorry
a kang, not a krol blade
cause kang on twinks was god
warm plinth
You farm Crusader yet?
warm plinth
Damn, that's some luck right there
lusty grotto
no
i mean he locked it down for like 2 weeks
but horde became pretty mad
so they brought down half the server to get him out
warm plinth
Some relatively easy money to be made in classic if you farm the right shit
lusty grotto
he's now insta KOS on Spy addons everywhere
warm plinth
Though I guess some of it you'd have to do in groups since you can't solo it
lusty grotto
well you can solo the tower
its pretty easy
righteous orbs though... yeah you need a group
our warlock just camped the recipe (WPL tower)
warm plinth
Yeah
lusty grotto
but yeah we all have crusader 😛
warm plinth
Or Large Brilliant Shards
I wonder if a geared 60 could stealth to the guy in Strat that has the guaranteed orb drop though
lusty grotto
uhhh
warm plinth
Can't remember his name atm; Commander something
lusty grotto
there's no guaranteed drop
ive been on runs where we clear everything, even cannon master
warm plinth
Yeah there is. The Commander guy always drops one. Unless that's something that was added later for whatever reason.
warm plinth
This guy https://www.wowhead.com/npc=11032/commander-malor drops one every time on live. Or I'm the luckiest person on the planet and just always get one from him lol
lusty grotto
that guy isnt in classic
warm plinth
Oh, he's not?
lusty grotto
nah
warm plinth
Well that would explain it 😄
lusty grotto
probably cata addition
warm plinth
I didn't get really familiar with Strat until 70 and I mostly was just after bosses for the shards
I probably wouldn't have noticed if he existed or not even then
ionic fern
@warm plinth 2k?
warm plinth
warm plinth
😢
Might get it tonight; we'll see
We have an 18 FH; if we time it that'll get me there
warm plinth
Thanks!
lusty grotto
gl gl
warm plinth
19s seem to be a wall for us so far. We've completed a few but haven't timed one yet.
hasty nova
aka robbed
warm plinth
Yeah for real
warm plinth
I saw some raider.io bio rant yesterday where some guy was talking about higher keys being easier in S3 than in S2
And somehow blamed that on why he wasn't higher rated in S3
Idk. It was quite the manifesto
warm plinth
It is harder. The scaling increase alone virtually guarantees that
Even with the increased power of essences
lusty grotto
shut up late
oblique garnet
@thorny laurel CnS major doesnt proc the root part if you are running sphere major or have any slows that exceed the tc slow
oblique garnet
well yeah idk why my discord has been acting up and it doesnt go to recent messages for some reason
lusty grotto
hmm
i guess it could be the "scroll down" bug
right up there with monitor virus
that last one is pretty damaging
i heard the cause of infection is lan parties
warm plinth
You're the cause of infection
warm plinth
Late answering questions that have already been answered like a true SF
lusty grotto
the answer is only official when a yeller addresses it
sand egret
ok boomer
lusty grotto
blade is doing his part!
warm plinth
Blade is just trying to be hip
sick sentinel
Ok boomer
S3 is easier, theres just less good players and less players in general
:)
oblique garnet
what
sick sentinel
s3 is easier hmmmm
sand egret
I would respectfully disagree haha
sleek flax
hi guys! where can i find my bis, necks, and HoA bis skills?
sand egret
check ze pins
warm plinth
@sand egret I want Diglett back
sand egret
:suspiciouschicken:
warm plinth
You and Nim, ditching your mascots after all they've done for you
warm plinth
#JusticeForStewart
ornate magnet
back to retail. first time playing the season. is 417 good enough to tank mechagon?
warm plinth
Yeah
warm plinth
It's fine. I've tanked a 10 at lower ilevel than that
ornate magnet
cool cool. ty ty!
warm plinth
It's more engaging than reaping, but also a little harder.
coral marsh
why debate about s2 or s3 when s1 was clearly the hardest anyways
chilly brook
It’s not more fun than reaping though xD @warm plinth
warm plinth
Nope lol
forest sinew
how do you guys target an ally for intercept quickly? ive never used an ability to target allies before and realized it seems super tedious to correctly click on a target before dashing to em when it seems it needs to be a quick reaction
undone sun
mouse over macros can help quite a bit
warm plinth
You can also use target of target macros for intercept since it won’t actually cast unless the mob’s target isn’t you.
flat jackal
Off topic, but which server is the one with the most 2 day raiding guilds on horde? thrall or a52?
surreal tendon
hey guys, whats the best way to deal with high tyranical ML on the third boss... i guess a couple questions, is there a reason to keep up shield block? like does she melee at all, and beyond reflecting every other poison, whats the best way to keep myself alive?... she hits me for 295k on a 20..
near ivy
3rd and 4th boss are full melee damage
if you have edicts, switch it to magical
shield block aint gonna block magic, but it will increase the damage of your shield slam
surreal tendon
i assume you meant 3rd and 4th boss are full magic dmg?
i mean i guess if they dont melee, i would try to keep full ignore pain up as much as possible and then dump into shield block then?
warm plinth
You can control who gets hit. It’s always the two closest people. You and a DPS should always get hit by it. When you can reflect the healer dispels the DPS, when you can’t, healer dispels you and DPS uses a personal
But yeah there’s zero reason to use shield block defensively on that fight
She doesn’t melee at all
surreal tendon
yeah thats not a problem, the dot is being taken care of by the group by swapping immunities on the ones i cant reflect, just that she hits incredibly hard
with her normal (magical) attacks
warm plinth
Yeah just pump into IP and healer should just be pumping on you. Use Shield Wall on CD (should get 2 uses on any relevant key, 3 on higher ones if you open with it)
Call for externals when you don't have anything up
Idk what your comp is but anything helps haha
surreal tendon
kk appreicated, yeah i just wasnt sure if i needed to keep shield block up considering that there are things that normally cast but mixes auto attacks in between (shadow of zul), then i can dump more rage to ignore pain then
warm plinth
Yeah, and then last boss you can actually block Drill Smash if you're facing the boss when he does it. But it's physical and frankly I never paid attention to how much damage it does to the tank so idk if it's worth it
I main havoc DH so I just dodge them all with Blade Dance :p
surreal tendon
haha i see, okay thanks
high nacelle
Hi, anyone know the stats priority of prot warrior "dps" build? (for 15+ mythic dungeon) is there any cap for CRIT?
high nacelle
ok i see
undone sun
realistically secondary stats don't matter that much, ilevel is still the priority
onyx vessel
I wonder what this weeks affixes are
analog swift
next week is AIDS
potent anvil
They did change quaking, so it's aids in a melee stack group which is like every comp 🙃
warm plinth
I'm pretty sure the quaking change doesn't go in until 8.3 yeah?
@potent anvil Not til next season confirmed
Still a shit week for melee comps either way. Just not quite as bad yet 😬
I just hope they get rid of this affix combo next season. It's garbage.
analog swift
btw
tested out quaking on ptr
holy fuck it feels so good
it feels good to get rewarded
warm plinth
Yeah for sure. Still want this affix combo gone though
warm plinth
Yeah. It's like welp, better move for this. Oh but you have to move for this too
Oh BUT FUCKING MOVE PLEASE
😄
potent anvil
F
spice ferry
Just never stop moving 
exotic spoke
Hi
analog swift
hey
warm plinth
Yeah, displacements and stuns work on them
ionic fern
Did you do it Ghash?
warm plinth
ionic fern
warm plinth
Wat
It's literally the worst affix combination in the schedule
Sang/quaking/void all together
ionic fern
🤷
Depends on the dungeon i guess.
mental scarab
Everything that slows pulls is the wurst 🤩
ionic fern
First time i feel bad about being a dwarf..my new team is 2x rogue 2x druids..meaning that i'm the only one who can't meld and has to die on some skips. 😂
sweet summit
Nelf masterrace 
onyx vessel
Tauren masterrace
blazing condor
real men die and get ressed back in my days you didnt do this fancy pancy shadowmelding!!!
placid oar
hi guys, i am new to tanking. What essences should i run for M+?
ionic fern
VoP major.
CnS/Aegis/Sphere/Lucid minors all work.
placid oar
Thank you Mwahi! Really appreciate it (=
Can you kindly advice how i can learn when to swap my minors?
pardon me as i main Fury but trying to learn to tank since i pug keys mostly and tanking seems to be easier for me to try and raise my io given the timings i play
Like, what scenarios are ideal for which minor? Sorry for the flurry of questions
ionic fern
Most nieche situations come in terms of higher keys..e.g you wanna use Null minor/major in high ML tyrannical key last 2 bosses due to being full magic damage etc.
In like 99% of scenarios you will be fine running with VoP in your major slot and Conflict and Strife,Aegis,Sphere in minors.
placid oar
ohhh i see
thank you Mwahi (=
i will read the wowhead guide to understand the bosses better
spice ferry
Often actually reading what the essences actually do, and asking yourself where they would apply best helps. Aka null in ML
hasty nova
ayyyyyye ghash! grats man
after spending time on this discord, and getting used to how it works
i hate the peak of sereinity discord
perhaps this is just less populated? but the other one seems like a total mess
especially with like 4 brew chat channels that all accomplish basically the same goal
placid oar
thanks Konrad
i am just not sure on what type of dmg each boss does and what most of the adds do
cos when i first started playing BFA at the start of 8.1.5 after a decade away from wow, i was learning how to dps
ionic fern
Most bosses are physical with some avoidable magic damage..the two most notorious intruders of this rule are as already mentioned the 2 last ML bosses where both of them deal ONLY magic damage.
hasty nova
Vobathor, using the dungeon journal helps a lot. Like most things in life, you will learn more about stuff you put time and effort into. Depending on what your goals for M+ are, i would certainly recommend figureing out which spells need to be reflected, kicked, let go through.
for instance at the start of SotS, you want to kick water blasts, and not kick wash outs (so that you will have enough kicks for the blasts)
placid oar
Thank u so much @ionic fern and @hasty nova
Got it, yup I will read it and practice.
Have a wonderful day 🤗
exotic spoke
Sup boyos
exotic spoke
Haven’t even looked at it. What’s it do?
marble cipher
hasty nova
ayye there it is
big aoe dmg
probably more useful in m+ than raid
unless its a fight similar to adds in orgozola
which, a raid with 12 bosses seems
like it will have a few add fights lmao
exotic spoke
Yeah that seems sick
hasty nova
man I hope that the corruption system is fun
because I'm not super excited about it
and with shadowlands not coming until dec 2020
thats 12 months of 8.3 and 8.35
exotic spoke
They could come up 8 hours late 🙂
Either way - there’s not enough coffee right now to wake up. Was up way to late
junior ivy
hi guys
junior ivy
how are you all
modern brook
Hi catfriend
warm plinth
@hasty nova Where are you getting December from?
hasty nova
the interview with preach
random urchin
December is the latest it will come out, not when it is coming out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a fall release
random urchin
Yep
hasty nova
6 months per patch so far
so i'm hoping a late august release
but i would rather they release a completed, solid, and polished expansion.
then another fucking BFA release
warm plinth
Yeah 8.3 is gonna be the last patch, and that’s not til at least January.
So it could be an August release
hasty nova
12 boss raid tho, with a probable 8.35
warm plinth
I’m in no hurry tbh. I’m the same way. Would rather wait longer and have it be better.
hasty nova
idk
random urchin
I’m trying to sit back and not look at everything too critically as there’s still so much we don’t know. I’m feeling optimistic though
hasty nova
well, i will say this. The corruption system will be a good tell tell sign. Same people working on shadowlands made the corruption system. So if corruption is amazing and fun and the community likes it.
Maybe we will get more of that
if the community hates it
and they listen to the dislike
well i just don't know honestly
TF'ing and WF'ing RNG is the biggest issue
and there seems like a lot MORE rng with the corruption
random urchin
Well, they’re letting us build our own legendaries which is a good start
crystal hemlock
my main issue with corruption was that the corruption amount rolled independently of the affix at first
warm plinth
Corruption is only for 8.3 so I really don’t care if it sucks. I’m more concerned about the future of Mythic+ gearing
crystal hemlock
so in the most drastic case one person could have 1/2 corruption pieces on and another could have had 5-7
they can make it not terrible, but they probably can't make it fun
sand egret
i bet they're shooting for Nov
Gus, knowledge they gain from 8.3 is going to be pretty late if they want to upend systems in Shadowlands.
In terms of development, that is
hasty nova
will 8.3 is probably a solid 8 or 10 months of content imo. They probably won't make us wait until Dec, but i think August is overly optimistic. So the next 8ish months of your wow life is going to revolve around corruption, in a major way.
@sand egret i FULLY agree with you there bud
Which leads me to think, the rng element is not going away from drops.
which isn't game breaking
but
well i guess we will see how the 8.3 corruption goes
I have high hopes, i love wow.
I even like a lot of the thigns they are doing
sand egret
Imho, corruption is a throwaway system to test the concept of how players interact with a system that involves micromanagement with drawbacks
we've so far seen opportunity cost as a drawback
hasty nova
Yeah, I agree with that too. Like they gave us legendaries then took them away. Based off the feedback, they decided to give again
sand egret
now being neutral has potential to be better, due to the potential binary downside of corruption (aka, you die b/c of it)
sand egret
they way they setup covenants, it's basically just a prestige class
or a chooseable Artifact
hasty nova
The covenants also give very similar benifits
broken isle
Artifacts turned into reputations
random urchin
Similar benefits? Did I miss something? I thought we only had info on the one covenant so far
sand egret
player's definition of "game-breaking" will evolve once tier lists start rolling out
broken isle
I'd like to see the downside of covenant switching personally.
random urchin
The main draw is the class ability you get, I couldn’t care less about movement
hasty nova
each covenant gives a similar low aggro skip. one might be better in certain specfics but
random urchin
And so far, the abilities are all over the place in terms of power and utility
hasty nova
over all they are super similar
warm plinth
Movement is probably what people are going to choose based on though, at least in the M+ scene. Unless the class ability is too good to pass up.
broken isle
Soul shape says mobs ignore u, but if it still puts u in combat..
warm plinth
Unless Blizz does something serious to "fix" skipping in Shadowlands
sand egret
yeah it'll come down to which one can replace shroud/meld
hasty nova
I guess what i'm saying is. you could pick a covant more on your class ability and get a movement bonus
rather than sacfrice movement for dmg or vice versa
random urchin
Yeah, movement will be a factor for the serious M+ players. But if you do a bit of everything the class ability is a huge factor
broken isle
Unless we see a future where switching covenants frequently isnt actually too bad
warm plinth
Depends on how big the gap is between them though really
hasty nova
because, as with ALL choices, there will come a BiS in terms of sim'ing,
and you can't really get away from that
sand egret
historically speaking, there's going to be one setup that is x% higher and then "if you're not X then you're inting" rhetoric will start
warm plinth
If the class abilities across covenants are similar, then people will choose for the movement
random urchin
Because as a shaman main who just tanks keys for fun on his warr. I really don’t like the covenant ability for shamans
I’m hoping they’re different
warm plinth
Same
Ideally there'd be minimal difference between them in any sense because then you'd feel like you actually had a choice
random urchin
Cuz a shitty mastery totem compared to holy shocking everything once a minute? Not even close
warm plinth
Rather than being pigeonholed into one choice because it's the best one
sand egret
they HUGE win would be if they are able to distribute power in each covenant that isn't on the same axis.
warm plinth
You're a huge win
sand egret
if it's just "which ability is better" that sucks. I want one ability to be "ok" but have insane soulbinds
the more people fight about which one is best, the better imho
broken isle
One covenants's ability is best ST, but another covenant's soul bind is best ST
That's how it should work
sand egret
yep
random urchin
True, I just think it’s a little weird how some classes have really cool stuff and others have “well I guess I’ll drop a stat stick for myself...”
hasty nova
Well, Ghash, I understand what you are saying. I even agree with you. However, my "choice" will always be to play the "best" way for "x" content. With liminted options (5 choices or 39 choices) there will always be one that sims higher or not.
sand egret
if the soulbinds are largely equal then the abilities are what will be the factor
i liked how Ion phrased the system in his Preach/Bay interview, so i really hope they try and stick that landing
it's a good vision to pursue
daring marlin
I didn't read everything up to this but @hasty nova That's just the overworld ability people get and not the class specific combat ability.
warm plinth
There's a difference between "best" as in it sims 10 DPS higher and "best" as in it sims 500 DPS higher though.
daring marlin
There will most certainly be a BEST covenant for ST/AoE and shit.
warm plinth
If they're close enough that the difference is marginal, then the average player will have a choice. WF guilds and people who think they're in a WF guild will still min/max, but I'll feel like I have a choice.
sand egret
my distinction is that there needs to be power you can't sim
hasty nova
i don't think that is possible blade, considering the nature of programing
broken isle
U might as well make each covenant ability deal no dmg
sand egret
if, for instance, we get an extra Spell Reflect via some soulbind setup. That's definitely a thing
daring marlin
Only power you can't sim is utility lol
sand egret
you can't sim shroud
sand egret
brez
sand egret
immunity soaks etc
daring marlin
^
broken isle
We like that stuff, but I dunno if that sounds exciting to sell your game
hasty nova
i would argue that dmg done is a larger axis
sand egret
depends in context
there's a lot of ways to flex choice, even if the playerbase tends to be myopic about their views on power
but time will tell how they proceed
modern brook
Myopic is a good word dude
sand egret
we have no idea how they're setting up their design pillars for content in 9.0
but it prob won't be the same as BFA
hasty nova
So, this is the issue i'm seeing with what you are saying Bladesong. They have to design a dungeon that can be tanked by 5 different tanks. If they were to give extra utility options vs extra dmg options people would experiment until they found a way to do the key faster. When a way is discovered to do something faster then that way is the "best" way to do so.
switching the way to do X key faster with dmg or with shroud or with spell reflect
doesn't change the over all physlicpfy that if you are tryign to do a key in the fastest time possible there eventually becomes a single way it is done faster
and then it becomes to which group of ppl can execute that strat better
which is why mdi is filled with the "same" comp. because if you agree that X comp is best
then it's only a matter of who can execute that comp better
so "philosophically" in the context of m+ and timing. there will always be a "pigeon-hole" best way to do the key.
but i could agree that with enough effort into balancing and making the margins smaller, by 10dmg or 4 seconds. that they could make choices less "pigeon-holed" so in reality (outside of mdi) it doesn't matter so much
just like right now for a 15key. you could bring an ench shaman and time the key. but for a 22key you could not
modern brook
Yeah I get that
modern brook
What I'm trying to say is wouldn't it make sense to try and balance around what they're saying is high (ie 18) rather than 22?
hasty nova
i agree with what ghash was saying that making the "best" way to do something only better by 5 dps
modern brook
In other words idt it matters if theres 1 way to do a 22 key
hasty nova
makes the "choice" easyer
modern brook
As long as you can do the 18 however
sick sentinel
is 15 iulvl increase to azerite worth losing 1 of 3 bastion traits
modern brook
Cause the 22 isnt a competition, officially
hasty nova
well if you are playing for 1million dollars and need to do something faster than the group next to you, there is no choice, there is only best
but if you are just trying to do 15 keys and 18 keys. there are a lot of choices
but if you are tryign to personally get the highest io, then you have to time 22s. and there becomes very "FEW" choices
@sick sentinel correct
hasty nova
it is worth
modern brook
All I'm sayin is that if the list of shit that can do prohibitively high keys is super small, that's fine as long as theres a diverse-ish meta at the level that blizzard claims is "competition"
sick sentinel
last question overwhelming or blood siphon
modern brook
(I say ish because its pve so there usually is a correct answer
sand egret
Well to address some of those points:
- The mathematical best is still not always absolute (see: the emergence of Unholy DKs) and is contingent on those actually "doing the math" (hint, they're human)
- Yes, there's a race to the bottom when it comes to how people strat and that's mostly the path of least resistence
- The MDI is a slightly skewed context, they don't push high keys. Rather they race 18s. There's a big difference there (which is also dependent on certain things, like overall timers, trash % distribution etc)
- The use of skips is somewhat uniquely problematic in the fact that's it's a binary cirumvention. It's not that you kill packs X faster with Y class, since shroud lets you skip them entirely (or another way to look at it is that it's not different than "instantly kill X mobs but they provide no %").
- When you have a choice that's engrained enough (that it's really not feasible to swap between content), then you can't really look purely at the M+ scene for balance.
warm plinth
Blood Siphon is way worse than Overwhelming Power.
sand egret
the big takeaway is that they don't balance around MDI, that's always going to be their corner-case
hasty nova
Well it comes down to something like this innocent question this guy is asking. overwhelming or blood siphon. There is a choice there. but is there really?
modern brook
A bit of a sidebar but would invis pots not sharing cd with combat pots make shroud less ubiquitous
sand egret
Of course there is a choice.
The weight of that choice comes from the players, not the game
hasty nova
and i did like what you said bladesong,
sand egret
why does it matter that you do .5% more damage? because the other guy who they can pick, does
hasty nova
especially with the idea that skips are uniquely problematic because of it's nature
exsactly where my point was leading to @sand egret i almost fortgot thank you!
yes that is a major issue too, is that because people can also pick classes
that are Known to do more dmg
it's a lot harder to pick however, from two prot warriors with similar io and similar ilvl
modern brook
I def laugh when vdh apply to keys
hasty nova
ofc when i see two resto druids with 2k io 2.1k io and same ilvl
i pick the higher io
always
unless their server says quel thalis, for some reason the ppl i play with won't play with that server
sand egret
it's the BR -bias
sand egret
typical communication barrier > more noticeable impact on recollection when things go wrong > increased bias based on anecdotal evidence
hasty nova
and i'm sorry if i'm digressing on tangents, i just like to discuss the particulars of wow. and you guys are some of the only ppl who reply to me XD
sand egret
it's a complex game that tends to get unfortunately devolved in discussion
which is why I can't stand the term....
viable
hasty nova
I suppose a problem of having "too many" choices, ie: essences x 3, azerite traits x 12, secondary stats, trinkets x2, weapon enchant, talents, is that 0.5% increase or 0.1% increase is compounded many times and becomes a 10-15% increase. So eventually, especially with more choices. You are doing way less dmg than someone else with the same class and spec.
Therefore, less choices with negligible differences would lead to more agency? Perhaps That was the idea with the talent tree change
Yeah it is a complex game. I understand Blizzard being hesitant to add another class to the game.
i imagine it's hard enough to make every class/spec "viable" for mythic raiding
anyways thanks for the chat, i'ma go get some work done lmao
daring marlin
Enh Shaman
doing 23s
as Enh
In fact, he's the second Shaman DPS in the world for IO score. 🤔
sand egret
Also remember that part of the game for some is finding out the combinatorics of what produces that 15% increase. They intentionally don't make the game that flat to remove that (granted: they definitely have dropped the ball in some areas, i.e.: many talent trees). The difference which I hope they pursue is to create "fuzzier" choices. This can be down from the class as well as from the encounter. A big problem in Legion was the prevalence of "soak" mechanics, which obviously propelled certain classes much higher in "viablity" (cloak/iceblock/turtle) regardless of their damage. Their widespread distribution aside, mechanics like these implemented from the encounter design side can influence the "fuzziness" factor.
Another big case example is Bears.
Roar was VERY powerful in Legion relative to the number of raid wide movement requirements
and @daring marlin holy shit that shammy is my hero
look at that dude just flexin' on top as Enh
daring marlin
It irks me when people just make strange blanket claims that X spec is bad and gl taking it to anything lol
sand egret
it's the race to the bottom
daring marlin
Like our good ol' PROT WARRIOR OF 8.0
sand egret
if there is an "easier" choice, that's the one people will make
sand egret
on the PTR
daring marlin
probably still boring as hell tho
sand egret
about to drop nukes with that new weapon
sand egret
tbh ive got my DK on the list of potential 8.3 main candidates
daring marlin
Interesting.
sand egret
i also tend to play "off-meta" stuff, but Frost has always been neato to me and I cut my teeth on tanking as a DK back in WotLk
daring marlin
I'd have to level my horde DK
So you enjoyed being giga busted in WotLK?!
1 min shield wall
that shit was hilarious
sand egret
so a mix of nostalgia and curiosity. Watching Nnogga rip as frost is also inspiring
sand egret
yeah i started tanking then but I was also still "off-meta" then (i was one of the few people to do 3Drakes as Blood and not the "unholy spec")
daring marlin
but AMZ bruh
sand egret
i filled in for this other dk who was doing it unholy style
did it as blood and everyone was like " 🤔 "
daring marlin
BDK self healing and the max HP they had was gross
think they had more than bears
while being able to have insane parry
sand egret
yeah, i found out I could reach a HP threshold with just VB alone to live through the breath and so I just had healers time their spike healing then and it was easssy
also WotN was super effective via this method
which people were sleeping on that mechanic early on
modern brook
@daring marlin viable
daring marlin
muh viability
modern brook
Yeah we're viable what of it?
modern brook
😩 😩 😩 😩
modern brook
leech
distant crystal
languid smelt
I am working on re-gearing since my return since March and I am now in the 425 ilvl range. Is there a point/threshold where I need to start shifting my focus away from haste? I am around 23% currently but with Into the Fray I am seeing 45% haste without Trinket Procs. Would Versatility start to serve me better at some point? I read WoWHead and Icy Veins but they don't mention if there is a ceiling. All of this is based on ilvl being the same.
vital plover
430 Adulation Enforcer with a socket vs 435 servent splitter?
warm plinth
Servant splitter
vital plover
Okay, wasnt sure because of the socket but guess the weapon dps is better
distant crystal
fat claps
warm plinth
They don't mention a ceiling because there isn't one @languid smelt. There are no breakpoints/caps/etc. Higher ilevel > whatever has more haste > whatever has crit for M+ or vers for raids. Any time you want more damage, sim it.
languid smelt
Thank you.
warm plinth
Just ignore the fact that it tells you to run Devastator in dungeon slice
Because that's not correct.
languid smelt
Raidbots can do DPS for Tanks accurately now?
warm plinth
It's working for us and I'm pretty sure all tanks are currently working, but I won't speak for all of the others.
languid smelt
Thanks for the info.
grave marsh
why is leech a meme?
tame garden
Ppl just overvalue it
median bobcat
There's a lot of difference tanking high m+ with troll or b.elf prot?
sick sentinel
nope
tame garden
B.elf you can help with dispels, troll you yell at dps to dispel
modern brook
@grave marsh that was compiled back in early season 2; when prot started becoming immensely popular and one of the MDI guys swapped to itand was using a bunch of leech gear which meant ppl took it as "leech is bis; drop ilvl for it" and kept asking about it
@median bobcat I think Belf is still BIS in M+ just cause the dispel is super applicable in most dungeons and helps shore up the weakness of prot being utility
Listen to other people over me, though. im a fucking fraud
tame garden
B.elf is for sure the move for horde
Not as big if you run with mages priests or shamans but still super handy in some bfa dungeons
modern brook
Yeah its better to have it in the belt and not need it imo
grave marsh
I mean, I've got like 12% leech at 440 ilvl
modern brook
plus sometimes you have ungabunga dps who dont fucking use it
Nothing wrong with leech
just dont drop ilvl for it
its still a tertiary stat, is the point
tame garden
Leech is good, don't avoid it, just dont chase it at the cost of ilvl
median bobcat
The point is I'll raid probably as fury so it's a hard decision to take
grave marsh
like, I could go up like 3 item levels, but i'd lose 9% leech
modern brook
go troll
Ez decision tbh
Prot warrior is so forgiving in every aspect of character creation that it honestly donest matter and you lose basically nothing on it while trying to maximize dps on other specs
modern brook
If u wanna be real you just pay to change race every time you swap content 💸 😎 💸
earnest totem
Hey guys, can you take a look at and help me understand where I should be focusing my time outside of raiding?
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/illidan/tyrantt
Like what mythics should I be running etc
The cloak is the only obvious upgrade from a mythic for me
I have ashaves trinket too but they aren't equipped there
modern brook
I mean thats why i run orc :^)
strong forum
Yikes
modern brook
@earnest totem Your shoulders suck in both ilvl and options; upgrading those to 450's, a better first trait and bastion is probably a good look
I'm like 80% sure we're still enchanting haste
sand egret
Step 1: Mog that helm son.
modern brook
And the bandages arent good, unless oemthing changed
strong forum
Step 2: get about 10 more ilvl
modern brook
^
strong forum
^
grave marsh
wait I've got a 450 mchimbas
strong forum
Dont
modern brook
I will give props to having a non-artifact sword and board that doesnt look like shit with the armor though
and nom's got the true advice
grave marsh
I dont have anything else but a 400 prism from gold dude from Battle of dazar, and a 405 butchers block
strong forum
Pvp
modern brook
I tihnk its pvp season 1?
strong forum
Both weapon and shield are pvp
sand egret
yeah that shade is legit
modern brook
Uhhhh not battle ground the Uhhh war...front?
modern brook
IDG why they dont make shields to go with the armor mogs
cause like no shield looks good rn
(with a full mog)
modern brook
:hella:
sand egret
^
strong forum
Lemme only do 4 sets per tier
sand egret
it's not lazy design, it's efficient design
modern brook
The biggest issue i have with armor type designs
is how different in aesthetic things that share armor are
strong forum
It's lazy
sand egret
i mean it isn't
modern brook
especially in leather and cloth
sand egret
they have X time with only Y people working at Z rate. You can allocate that where you want, and this expac it went to the other bajillion things modelers need to work on
aka
Allied Races
strong forum
Worked before
sand egret
did they have allied races to implement?
tame garden
Where did all the class design /balance devs go
sand egret
¯_(ツ)_/¯
strong forum
Neither am i
chilly brook
@sand egret to be fair allied races were already going to be a part of the expansion that’s like saying that they allocated time and resources to the mogu and the insect people in MoP so didn’t have time for class armor sets
earnest totem
@modern brook awesome, I'll save up resid for that.
sand egret
that's not true at all griff
earnest totem
Is there anything in M+ or otherwise I can do?
@sand egret I left helm that way bc it's so stupid looking
@modern brook the bandages suck I don't actually use it, that's an equipment set I haven't fixed
chilly brook
What am I missing then?
sand egret
if you're going to go clown mog, go all out i say
that there's a big difference in developmental cost between playable races and npcs
so your analogy doesn't apply.
chilly brook
But not all of that would be on the art team
modern brook
@earnest totem Butchers and Eye are very strong
You could Do those dungeons for a higher ilvl of those trinkets
sand egret
I'm explicitly talking about the art team.
earnest totem
Sorry what are butchers and eye?
chilly brook
How much extra effort goes into creating a model for a playable race vs an npc for an artist?
@modern brook yes I’ve been enjoying it
modern brook
A friend of mine compared it to siege
earnest totem
I think I have a 430 rezans eye in bank lol
modern brook
and i was like "griff plays that :^)"
I'd argue thats better then the bandages
but agian i suck
earnest totem
So is ashvanes trink that I have lol
The bandages are just part of a stupid equipment set that I have not updated, so when I clicked to switch to prot that's what I got
I didn't even realize that's what kept getting equipped until you guys pointed it out
sand egret
big oof
modern brook
yeah thats the spooky part of equipment sets
sand egret
that and ghosts
modern brook
I was running 385 helms when i had 445s for a while because im dumb :^)
chilly brook
I think the ttk on some guns is a little too quick and shotguns are fairly imba but overall it reminds me a lot of the CoD 4 days 🙃
modern brook
Its my first CoD and the only thing that really stoodout to me is that everyones complaininga bout the M4 when the Aug is actually STUPID busted
earnest totem
lmao @modern brook
modern brook
and shotguns need to not be in the game
earnest totem
im actually surprised no one in my guild has been like wtf
chilly brook
I really like the mp5
earnest totem
i have Ashvanes Razor Coral, not the tanking one
modern brook
I think the coral is strong in M+?
earnest totem
should be
sand egret
yeah it's strong
chilly brook
Coral is pretty good in general tbh
modern brook
Shotguns i think are still busted
chilly brook
Absolutely
sand egret
headshot? body shots were doing 3x the total hp pool of a person
modern brook
I wouldnt know theres NO STATISTICS >:^(
sand egret
yeah, the .725 still oneshot people despite having 200% increased hp
strong forum
Cod is arcade shooter, but this time around its wannabe r6s
Not bad by all means
But nothing like old cods
modern brook
r6s?
strong forum
Rainbow 6 siege
sand egret
seige
modern brook
Oh
sand egret
CoD is more about who developed it, Infinity Ward historically pushes short TTKs in favor of more map-based play.
modern brook
I really think Cyber Attack is a fun game mode that strikes a balance between the like CSgo/R6S and being a more casual game
earnest totem
would give anything for a Raidbots for tanking
grave marsh
So, 400 diamond laced refracting prism, or 450 mchimbas ritual bandage?
modern brook
Just dont die 4head
sand egret
it'd be like Pawn then
modern brook
Hoenstly probably the mchimbas
strong forum
Snd, cyber attack and kill confirmed are the only modes I can stand
Sadly mchimbas
It's god awful but 50ilvl are 50ilvl
modern brook
50 ilvls of mainstat is fucking absurd
grave marsh
like, I honestly havent been able to get a trinket this season lol
strong forum
Just play the game 4head
sand egret
take solace in the fact that you get a bunch more value in mchimba's if you have IP active
modern brook
IDK cause im a god at getting loot
grave marsh
been stuck with the prism, and a computational device with the haste proc on it
sand egret
think of it like a very broke man's AMS
grave marsh
surprisingly, mchimbas isn't on the gcd, which you'd think it would be with how retarded blizzard has been this xpac
modern brook
no reason not to be
strong forum
Trinkets aren't on the gcd
analog zinc
how does mchimba's effect IP
strong forum
Unless they are casts
grave marsh
tell that to Merekthas lol
strong forum
It doesn't, city
sand egret
it applies after
modern brook
Merekthas more like memekthas
strong forum
Same as cyclo
grave marsh
dude merekthas is fucking epic
strong forum
But 98% of all trinkets are off gcd
modern brook
is it as epic as pressing Thunderclap again 😏
sand egret
@analog zinc unlike 90% of shields in the game, Mchimba's is applied after the damage split from IP, instead of prior so you're able to get double effective value for each shield point as long as IP > 1
grave marsh
you say that, but it hits for like 90k per target and doesn't do split damage
sand egret
Bull, i dunno if you know but they buffed the shit outta the Fang
modern brook
I dont know shit
modern brook
I've gotten this far today holding onto my understanding of the game from september
sand egret
for instsance
modern brook
and this is the only time its backfired
strong forum
Mdi was only used they go for maximum risk with minimal gain, merekthas should only be used if you do mongo pulls where you know that you won't get hit.
Or low keys aka 18s for top players
grave marsh
yea, I take a shitload of damage when I pop it lmao
but you pair it with avatar/talented demo shout
sand egret
I mean if you're using it to its effect, you're prob gonna sync it's use with an aoe stun or the like
grave marsh
and it's fucking epic
chilly brook
Bro the shotguns in MW are literally the sniper 90 from season 1 of siege
strong forum
You dont want to pair it with avatar cuz your dmg gain doesn't increase merekthas
chilly brook
One tap at all ranges cuz reasons
strong forum
If you use trinkets within avatar window that isn't coral you're using it wrong
Demo also doesn't increase merekthas dmg
Afaik
strong forum
Yup
chilly brook
I’ve come to the realization that I don’t like using cyclotronic
strong forum
Only secondary stats besides mastery
chilly brook
Channeling trinkets feels wrong
chilly brook
When you get a 455 yellow tho
grim nymph
445 shieldblock/iron fortress azerite chest or 415 BoM/trash chest 😐
strong forum
445
hushed cobalt
What you need is a 455 grongs + leech
strong forum
Like 3000x
strong forum
Bfi + if is great
hallow phoenix
455 grongs I would do a lot of things for
chilly brook
Obviously you’re gonna want to at least have one eventually though
@hushed cobalt id rather have a 455 diamond
TBH
grim nymph
I have 430 BoM/DC helm and 430 BoM/trash shoulders
hushed cobalt
455 diamond AND urchin °_°
grim nymph
But yeah, I'll run the 445. Just annoyed I didn't roll any BoM/DC lol
daring marlin
Diamond and the like go past 425? Why would Uldir tier trinkets not go beyond 395 if that's the case?
grave marsh
love my diamond, but its only 400 ilvl, I wanna get an urchin, but the fucking thing wont drop
daring marlin
Pretty sure you're wrong.
chilly brook
@daring marlin I don’t think they do
distant crystal
they do
grim nymph
They don't.
chilly brook
But then again
chilly brook
Gl having people be down to farm it for that chance
hallow phoenix
hushed cobalt
I got a 400 socket diamond
chilly brook
@hallow phoenix wtf
daring marlin
mmmk now show an Uldir trinket going beyond 395
hushed cobalt
That's a spicy meatball!!
daring marlin
I've never seen one
distant crystal
i have
hallow phoenix
Not mine
distant crystal
there's some fury boys running around with >395 vectis trinks
chilly brook
That’s a lucky dude
hushed cobalt
Do absorbs count to the urchin healing stored?
hallow phoenix
Imagine a 30k shield every 6 seconds
distant crystal
absorbs should count as dmg taken ye
hallow phoenix
455 diamond for Christmas please
Guilford there are WQ trinkets that can mongo forge
Not sure why you think uldir is some exception
grim nymph
Blizzard said at one point that they didn't want a repeat of bloodthirsty instinct. I guess they went back on it.
hallow phoenix
Some dude posted a heroic dungeon ring/trinket titanforged to 450 or so
Just because it's rare doesn't mean it doesn't happen
daring marlin
What's your point? I have NEVER seen an Uldir item regardless of what it is TF past 395. Raidbots doesn't even have it for a scaling past 395 either.
If you have a SS of it then post it up brother
I certainly won't take your word for it.
chilly brook
@hallow phoenix aren’t the haste proc trinkets from WQs dummy good if they TF?
hallow phoenix
Some of the wq trinkets can be very good. Doom shroom comes to mind for ST dps
analog zinc
so how is war gonna be next raid? What's spell reflectable?
hallow phoenix
There's been conversations in #fury about 400+ syringes and some people seeing them. DMed a few for screenshots or armory so will see
chilly brook
Shame that you can’t search for trinkets on wcl
hallow phoenix
Yeah kinda peeved about not being able to
blazing dune
You kinda can with this https://i.imgur.com/cJKHJOc.png
The problem is kinda that you still have to go through the top ranked pages even if there's no one on it that has the item you'd want, instead of just listing the players that has it
Like random syringe logs (had to do BoD logs to even find any) you dont see any on page 1 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#search=items.160655&boss=2263&difficulty=4
but on page 2 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#search=items.160655&boss=2263&difficulty=4&page=2 there's 4 logs with it
hallow phoenix
I had no idea. Thanks for this
opaque shuttle
Hey guys I just want to know if the active spell of Crucible of Flame is affected by the damage boost of Avatar ?
hallow phoenix
Don't think CoF scales with ap
distant crystal
and neck
hallow phoenix
And schism
distant crystal
for now
hallow phoenix
Let priests have their fun
distant crystal
bv debuff is only warrior spells too right?
hallow phoenix
It's fire pretty sure so it should
opaque shuttle
Another question about dps 😄 how do you use the coral as prot war ?
using it for every avatar seems weak to me
idk if i'm right
hallow phoenix
Do you have inkpod?
hallow phoenix
Use it with avatar when you have 7+ stacks
Roughly every other avatar. On fights like radiance save it for add phase
And I wouldn't bother with it on Queens court but maybe someone has figured out how to make it work on that fight
hallow phoenix
That's what the simcraft APL does, I think it has more to do with using it every avatar isn't good, so the next thing is every other
But I'm not sure and I use inkpod so I've never looked into it much
hallow phoenix
Yep
Except on radiance I still use it on adds
And in hindsight there actually shouldn't be any issue using it in Queens court, I'm just kinda retarded
Some top parsers use it there
sharp abyss
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/sargeras/delithvian i get a 445 choice today what should i roll it on?
chilly brook
First of all gross alliance
Second of all wtf are you wearing
That mog is....
And lastly try your luck for a helmet
analog swift
This discord has the best advice
sharp abyss
Yeah I will lol
tame garden
Rude
chilly brook
I think my prescription for my eyes got worse 😜
sharp abyss
I use the skirt one and i needed a better weapons I got new pants so yea
chilly brook
To be fair I never said I wasn’t a rude person 😉
chilly brook
I need to go see what I got in my weekly chest of disappointment
sharp abyss
So hey question i got a 440 Ritual Binders with a socket what should I replace it with and socket it with based off my gear in that link
sharp abyss
The ring from KR
chilly brook
Oh a ring, uhh I would just sim yourself to see which one would net you more DPS, socket for haste tbh
sharp abyss
So should i just always simc for dps?
And should I sim for patchwerk or the dungeon one @chilly brook
warm plinth
Yeah, for raiding anyway. I wouldn't sim for DPS in dungeons (at least not the dungeon slice sim)
chilly brook
I’d sim for patchwork
And in general when it comes to rings I would just use sims as the decider
warm plinth
Patchwerk with multiple targets or HAC sims should be used for dungeons. Dungeon slice sims put too much emphasis on single target and will very commonly suggest you use Devastator, which is a no-no in dungeons.
chilly brook
Facts
Unless you forget that you were talented into it on a 15 and do it anyways
🙃
chilly brook
Yes, I did that the other day
sharp abyss
My essences are a little bad and i don't have a 3rd yet
sharp abyss
yeah i got rank 2 of that now
chilly brook
Other than that, CoF, null barrier and sphere or conflict there’s not much to worry about
sharp abyss
Sphere?
chilly brook
Sphere of Oppression or w/e
Which you only need rank 1 of
Honestly prot has it pretty easy for essences minus null barrier
sharp abyss
Yeah i have started working on null
So use vop null and sphere for raid?
I mena dungeons sorry ands Cof null and sphere for raid
chilly brook
I mean outside of trying to strictly parse for single target in raid I leave visions in my major
And unless you’re gonna get the full use out of null, by being able to get it to do damage almost every absorb, then I’d slot CoF in the minor
sharp abyss
Alright thank you man
chilly brook
Currently I’ve just been running vop major and CoF/null as minor
sharp abyss
Alright thanks lol
chilly brook
@distant crystal don’t forget deva and HR w/BFI/RF stacking!
distant crystal
ofc
oh damn is HR the play
i missed that one
or does it require sufficient bfis
sharp abyss
I only have BoM DC on helm IF and CR on shoulders IF and BFI on chest
chilly brook
Some of the top parses have been using HR with 3x BFI
sharp abyss
Whats HR
chilly brook
A meme talent that you shouldn’t use unless you’re trying to push damage with no care of actually mitigating
chilly brook
Try it with punish talented 🙃
distant crystal
ye still no dice
cosmic cape
i have so many trinkets and dont know what to use. is barnacle good? finally got a 440 one
random urchin
Depends on what your other trinkets are
cosmic cape
440 barnacle 455 howler 430 ink 430 coral 430 urchin 430 button 430 fang 418 laser 445 phial 445 vial 440 alch trink 440 bandages
sharp abyss
Pog sim is good for my trinks too
warm plinth
I'd use Howler and either alc trink or urchin if you want something more defensive. Have not heard great things about phial but that might be an option
warm plinth
Oh totally missed the 445 vial
analog zinc
is raid testing over? Hows prot looking next tier
distant crystal
not as good as dk's
analog zinc
why DK?
warm plinth
Because self healing is a perfect counter to magic damage
in an expansion where there isn't much magic mitigation
distant crystal
that weapon is also sicknasty
analog zinc
what can AMS cheese that SR can't?
warm plinth
I mean, even in dungeons there's shit that AMS can do that we can't
analog zinc
or rather what can you do with SR this next tier
warm plinth
Look at 3rd boss of UR
distant crystal
idk specifics but there's several things in the new raid that are supposedly made trivial with ams
warm plinth
They can eat stacks of the disease from the mushrooms with AMS; we can't with SR
distant crystal
heard it from somebody who's been testing ptr