What days are you free and uh... are you willing to server transfer if things go well
#protection
exotic spoke
distant crystal
a magic immunity soak works on the slam
block/cloak/bubble/etc
depends on what your normal raid days are :p
distant crystal
i watch nerf's stream sometimes so i'm basically a high io prot warrior
whatcha got
outer dew
🤔
thorn mulch
have a friend whos learning how to prot warriior he has 3 stacks of bastion of might but his dps is ass
thorn mulch
need to know what an opening rotation for a typical 5-8 pack of mobs
thorn mulch
is*
rapid jewel
??
distant crystal
what do you call bad dmg tho
distant crystal
as long as he has avatar up for the big pulls and he's clapping heavy
outer dew
total dps is kinda weird
distant crystal
13 is p bad tho
thorn mulch
i agree hence the question
rapid jewel
its basicly clap -> filler -> clap -> filler ...
outer dew
depends
rapid jewel
he plays with booming voice and clap trait to or just bastion?
distant crystal
maybe a lil more
outer dew
if you running with people that constantly pot
¯_(ツ)_/¯
it really depends on the pull and what you have to do
but in general, if he's lacking in DPS
thorn mulch
he has bastion of mightx3 boomking boice and clap trait yes
outer dew
he just needs a giant ass WA
that covers his screen
that has the thunderclap icon
so he never misses a clap
distant crystal
during avatar it's just clap every other gcd
outer dew
tbh
distant crystal
outside avatar is less important but clap on cd too
also, what essences is he running
distant crystal
could be one of many issues
outer dew
sure
distant crystal
but yeah, 13K is literally just leaving claps on the table
rapid jewel
but usually 13k means he doesnt clap enough
outer dew
this implies a rotational issue as a main factor
just not pressing enough buttons
if homie can't press a button every GCD
👀
distant crystal
maybe he has rez sickness
outer dew
then he's just a god
distant crystal
😄
rapid jewel
yeah you beat 13k dps with just clapping alone to be honest
thorn mulch
in mythic + is anima used as a minor?
distant crystal
vision major some combo lucid/sphere/cns/deeps minors
distant crystal
i mean threat gen issues + low dps go hand in hand
clap more
warn your group if avatar is down for a pull
distant crystal
preferably have a rogue tricks you when avatar is down
outer dew
you bursted?
smeld
same as a tank
:^)
your DH talking shit?
smeld
quite a fun game
to check if your dps paying attention
👀
warm plinth
My blur finger automatically moves when I see nameplates turn red lul
exotic spoke
Lol
sullen valve
@ionic fern is a big prot warrior that supports wowA for prot warrior. Please use
warm plinth
Just because he has a big head doesn't mean he's a big woyer Abelito
But you all should still use wowA
tender perch
what should i use more trade winds or iron fortress
potent anvil
I prefer trade winds, but Iron fort is more consistent. Either works.
tender perch
bloodsport or brace for impact?
potent anvil
Brace
sick sentinel
dayyum
wooden radish
@ionic fern I saw the nick fury pic
ionic fern
@wooden radish who ??????
wooden radish
Ask @sullen valve
sick sentinel
why are you guys hanging out in skyhold
wooden radish
Why aren’t you Brah-mini
warm plinth
Because Skyhold is the place to be
sullen valve
warm plinth
We have wowA now
sick sentinel
Brahminy is dead
wooden radish
Shrikewarrior
frosty holly
I must ask... What is wowA ?
frosty holly
Aa, cheers
shadow wind
Man, I'd be real hyped if Blizzard increased the friendlist cap or uncapped it
ionic fern
Mr.Popular.
onyx vessel
brittle owl
frens 
exotic rapids
Good morning everyone.
Yould you suggest
a) Butchers Block with socket + Vial
b) Butchers Block + Rezan
c) Rezan + Vial
For m+?
Sim Says b) but I seem to pull lower numbers with that combo
So I´d like to reconfirm
Compared to c
ionic fern
Ilvls matter.
In general Butchers/Rezan is the go to for m+.
Remember that all the DPS depends on pull sizes/dungeons and when the trinkets proc etc.
Overall your B option should perform the best
exotic rapids
the are all 430 sadly
alright thank you. I`d have to run a few more dungeons with that combo. 🙂
brittle owl
keep in mind that you should pop vial on your first damaging global and not waste a single gcd to maximize it
if you play correctly you should have vial up for every other avatar as well
vial gives you huge burst on aoe an can in practice pull ahead if played correctly
wooden radish
@ionic fern will today be good for prot warrior?
wooden radish
Odds that stances are in the blizzcon build?
sick sentinel
pls dont bring stances back
ionic fern
Wdym
sick sentinel
i think it was bad
ionic fern
Stance dancing was fun
ionic fern
Jeha, but new ones are gonna be
Spell Reflect stance
and
Thunder clap stance
brittle owl
stance dancing was giga fun
ionic fern
sand egret
Thunder Stance and Clap Stance
tame garden
No floof stance. Bad spec
brittle owl
fluffer nutters out
warm plinth
What's fun about stance dancing 🤢
brittle owl
everything
warm plinth
Pressing a button to arbitrarily gain access to different abilities is horrible
brittle owl
it's not arbitrary lol
you had zerg buttons for zerger stance
you had turtle buttons for defensive stance
and you had big dick combat buttons for battle stance
warm plinth
It's taking the spec's abilities and needlessly placing them behind a wall that somehow impacts other aspects of your character. It's garbage.
brittle owl
see that would make sense if warrior were originally designed like that
but they were designed with stances in mind
sooooooo
no
u
warm plinth
And we don't have them now for a reason. Because they're shit and it feels bad to play with them. 👍
brittle owl
classic warr is more fun than current warr 😦
brittle owl
🤷
exotic spoke
I can see where maelkenar is coming from - in terms of stance dancing being fun
It was an easy Mark off skill to see a good warrior stance dance and a bad warrior
brittle owl
main issue i have with retail warrior is 0 depth
and 0 flexibility
it's fun, for 5 minutes
then you realise everything you do is just a repeat of the same motions
irrespective of scenario
exotic spoke
That’s not just a warrior thing btw. And also you did that in classic too
brittle owl
stances where huge for flavor
exotic spoke
I’ll agree that flavor wise they were
brittle owl
yeah, it's why i enjoy very few classes
most are just eh
you had more flexibility in classic tbh
you had more flexibility and more fun diff stuff in legion too
but i guess that can be said about any class
brittle owl
gee i wonder where they got that idea
sick sentinel
Their own
exotic spoke
I don’t think stances are necessary, especially with today’s UI, macros, etc
Where you would just have the change macroed into whatever ability
Because that’s what Druids do
brittle owl
was the same thing back then as well
i really don't see a problem with reimplementing them
exotic spoke
Yes and no. Yes, you could, but it wasn’t as wide spread since people didn’t know what they where doing. Also, you had a shit ton more abilities (whether good or bad abilities) and they where restricted so it was harder to have it set to your bars on every stance for everything
I had stances bound and just used the binds personally and then hit abilities
exotic spoke
I think they would be a lot less relevant now and less restrictive now than they where then
Purely due to huge leaps in UI capabilities
brittle owl
it would make balancing Fury and Arms dps easier
but if you could change stances on every spec
would need class overhaul
exotic spoke
How would it make it easier to balance fury and arms dps?
They already have a static multiplier in the background they can adjust
oblique garnet
Dps is fine on both arms and fury but arms just dies because it doesnt have the same survivability as fury does
exotic spoke
Given how long ago stances were removed - I don’t think adding stances back is a good idea.
Purely because it’s been so long and because of pruning (a separate issue) we don’t have enough to fill the stances out
pearl sinew
Hey all, what are your thoughts on Prot Warr, Prot Pala, or BDK for tanks in 8.3 for high end M+ and mythic raiding for guild attempting to get cutting edge guild?
sweet summit
we dont know yet for sure 🤷 all 3 are viable tho
oblique garnet
Prot Warr for m+ atleast
pearl sinew
Late do you think Prot warr will be able to push for CE in 8.3 also?
oblique garnet
any tank can push CE
Monk is the most forgiving tank for progression that still hasnt changed
exotic spoke
All tanks are viable
pearl sinew
Yeah, I have a BrM now but I want to play something different to closeout expansion
I just don't want to fuck our raid over too much. I do alot of M+ though
tame garden
Spec choice wont make or break your guild getting CE
Or fuck over anyone
Play what you find fun
Tank balance is in a decent spot
pearl sinew
Makes sense! Thanks a bunch for info
oblique garnet
Are you the only monk? @pearl sinew
pearl sinew
Yes at the moment ><
We are looking for a WW or having the other tank go BrM for next patch
mystic whale
"Tank balance is in a decent spot"
Tell that to Orgozoa
near ivy
ok
strong forum
It is tho
oblique garnet
every tank can tank orgozoa
near ivy
@orgozoa "tank balance is in a decent spot"
warm plinth
Tank balance = every tank can perfectly tank every mob in the game apparently
mystic whale
can you do Orgozoa with 2 VengDH
near ivy
you cant tank orgozoa with 2 of any tank other than brm 🤷
orgozoa is a fight designed to be 3 tanked
you can however, tank it with 3 vengdh's
sand egret
🤔
mystic whale
BrM will always screw up the tank balance
near ivy
or maybe im wrong
2x BrM is being used in this scenario not for the normal reason it is strong
tame garden
Aoe taunts cheese isnt really a balance issue
warm plinth
I mean what exactly do you want? What's tank balance to you?
near ivy
its one niche on one bossfight
and you need to actually think about the context of the statement "Tank balance is in a decent spot"
it does not mean that all tanks are equal to each other
it means that all tanks are CLOSER to being equal to each other than they normally are, or closer to being equal to each other than (insert other role) is
warm plinth
Yeah, that's what it means to me as well. We're closer than we've probably ever been before (tanks).
tame garden
Especially in the context of "I want to make sure my tank choice wont hold my guild back"
exotic spoke
Tank balance is fine. It’s not perfect - but it’s far healthier now than other times recently
near ivy
tank choice will not hold your guild back, especially if your guild is at orgozoa
exotic spoke
^^
near ivy
comments can be made on zaqul/azshara but i dont know enough to make them
not gonna pretend that i do
exotic spoke
And I say that in Queens court 🙂
brittle owl
the only issue atm raidwise
is the gap between BrM and the rest
that should be solved next patch
exotic spoke
This late in a tier the gap is lessened
brittle owl
rest of the tanks are perfectly fine for raiding
the gap has never been this big tho
doing more effective self healing than both of the self healing tanks
maybe vop glutt veng can be more efficient
but brm doesnt have to sacrifice anything to do it
exotic spoke
I mean - it really doesn’t matter though once you get geared. The reason why BrM is so great for day 1 progression is because they need less gear
warm plinth
I think the gap has been this big before. Look at Guardian druids in Legion
brittle owl
guardian was good in legion cuz roar
that's kinda it
if you wanted tankiness you'd take a brm or a warrior over it on most bosses
or in some scenarios even a paladin
near ivy
👀
warm plinth
But there was still a gap due to how impactful Roar was on certain encounters
That's the only thing I meant
mystic whale
i often forget paladins can tank
oblique garnet
its hard to say which tank will be the best in raids with the ptr scaling being the way it is
nocturne knot
Hi all
brittle owl
brm will likely be "best" still
oblique garnet
maybe maybe not
brittle owl
but not at such a gap from the others
warm plinth
I don't think that's ever going to change tbh unless they change stagger completely, at least for progression.
There's a lot to be said for consistent damage intake during progression
oblique garnet
So far there wasnt many mechanics brm could dodge
rapid jewel
yeah new raid is pretty magic heavy and with our shitty selfheal, we are not standing there so well.
brittle owl
warrior is looking really bad for next raid seeing how much magic dmg there is
warm plinth
Unless there's like a huge blockable fight or something but I've heard it's a lot of magic
brittle owl
there's like 1 boss so far with a "tank buster" that's 60% phys 40% magic
exotic spoke
It’s early, things change, scaling changes, and we’ll get through it like we’ve done before
warm plinth
But yeah we'll see what happens. Not gonna be surprised if we see double monk progression from WF guilds though.
exotic spoke
Most tanks have issues with magic damage anyway. Some more than others - it isn’t legion anymore
brittle owl
if it stays magic heavy as it is now, tank choice won't really matter
warm plinth
Yeah for sure
chilly brook
If it stays this magic heavy then DH is gonna be real nice....
brittle owl
yep
warm plinth
Yeah I was gonna say we might even see DH up there
brittle owl
realistically
warm plinth
They're pretty solid against heavy magic right now
brittle owl
brm/pal/dk/dh would be top
exotic spoke
I’ll be raid tanking on warrior
chilly brook
Which might incidentally be the point
rapid jewel
DH always is to spikey for WF progress tbh
exotic spoke
We’ll be fine
chilly brook
Not now @rapid jewel
warm plinth
If it's mostly magic, most tanks would be spikey though
chilly brook
Have you seen gluttony vision?
warm plinth
Gluttony vision is great defensively but yeah, damage is baaaad
warm plinth
Yeah but that's how DH has always been (except in Legion where they didn't even DS outside of Meta a lot of the time lul)
brittle owl
you did DS on bosses doe
chilly brook
Which is also tied to a huge absorb
warm plinth
That's fair
brittle owl
on aoe you just healed LOL
chilly brook
But DH is honestly super solid rn
sand egret
Charred Blades was ❤
brittle owl
i am prepping my DH for next tier just in case
warm plinth
Yeah our tank for our M+ group is a VDH right now and it's super solid
brittle owl
but i really cba to farm mecahgon again
exotic spoke
It’s almost like.... tank balance is in a pretty good spot
warm plinth
WAT
brittle owl
😮
chilly brook
My DH is mainly my m+ character tbh
warm plinth
Mine too but I play havoc
sand egret
only one tank has a fuzzy booty. Tanks are not balanced.
chilly brook
@exotic spoke say it ain’t so
tame garden
1 floof to rule them all
brittle owl
fkin degens
exotic spoke
DKs are the degenerates
oblique garnet
Yeah cba with dh there will never be a scenario where you would need 2
Tanks that is
rapid jewel
tanks are more or less balanced, the encounter design is the shitty part
brittle owl
that is true
exotic spoke
That’s true
brittle owl
ngl tauren DH would be LIT
exotic spoke
At least with Bears you can be Thicc humans
sand egret
big true
chilly brook
Honestly blizz has the tools to make other tanks more suited to each mechanic aka have a big reflectable spell on a tier boss
But they won’t
sand egret
lol
warm plinth
Blade you aren't even kidding. Though tbh I did make a blood elf rogue
rapid jewel
they should rework demoshout in my opinion, a lot of damage is enviromental and it simply don't work on a lot of shit
warm plinth
But only because female blood elf stealth animation is amazing
brittle owl
you could consider warrior to have been top in BoD doe
sand egret
well reflect is like, the most dangerous skill to balance around next to DS
chilly brook
It’s ok for literally every other tank but warrior anytime they’re #1 they get the nerf bat next tier
brittle owl
but BoD was undertuned af
exotic spoke
Coming from a person who only plays one class and has no real intention of playing another - I don’t mind encounters favoring specific tanks / having niche roles / some being better than others
We only get nerfed when we’re fucking OP as shit
chilly brook
@brittle owl not for BoD for m+ yes though
chilly brook
@exotic spoke outside of 8.2 anytime we’ve been nerfed it’s been into the ground
brittle owl
ZekVoz was arguably a fight suited for vdh in 8.0
exotic spoke
Please - provide examples
sand egret
a huge problem with encounters favoring one tank vs another is partly a playerbase problem
brittle owl
but guess what, monks could do just as well
chilly brook
EN nerf comes to mind
brittle owl
blade has a point too
exotic spoke
Because I’ve played warrior since vanilla and can’t remember being nerfed into the ground to the point of being bottom tank
EN nerf was because we were OP as shit and we were still firm
Fine
chilly brook
That too
brittle owl
or rather, paladin and dk tanks were op
rapid jewel
without EN nerf we would be ridiculous tbh
brittle owl
cant remember druids
exotic spoke
DKs first season / raid were OP as shit. They got nerfed hard
chilly brook
@rapid jewel I wasn’t stating that they wouldn’t have been
brittle owl
DK's were fine all throughout wrath, and still could do a lot of stupid shit
chilly brook
But it was a little bit of a overnerf
exotic spoke
Some nerfs, like the second TC nerf recently, are preventative
chilly brook
True
rapid jewel
Personally I just want demoshout changed into a buff instead of debuff
exotic spoke
But I remember being fine tanking in WotLK
brittle owl
it was fine
chilly brook
I want demo shout not being on the gcd
warm plinth
Why do you want it a buff instead of a debuff?
brittle owl
ofc there were a lot of dk's that sucked sand popsicles
exotic spoke
Won’t happen this expac Griff. It’s a “dps ability” in addition to being a defensive. And they didn’t want stacking offensive CDs as prevalent as in the past
warm plinth
Oh you mean like environmental damage sources and such
rapid jewel
yeah
warm plinth
I feel like they could fix that rather easily though on the damaging ability side rather than the demo shout side, if they chose to
chilly brook
@exotic spoke I still don’t understand that decision, goes against literally 15 years of the game
warm plinth
It would feel weird having two damage cooldowns that are used in conjunction with each other tbh. Like I know it's used defensively to a point as well but it would be odd to me.
exotic spoke
I’m not agreeing with it because i agree with you Griff. Just saying why it happened
warm plinth
Like having it as a debuff makes it feel better than it would if it was two buffs haha
warm plinth
At the same time though, and in support of Griff's point, Demo is a bit different there. Like...we can still have Demo and Avatar at the same time
Why not just let us cast them together
Delaying it by 1 GCD doesn't really change anything
chilly brook
Because it’s too hard on peoples fingers duh
exotic spoke
2 gcds
warm plinth
Either way, there's no real impact except we get 1 ability not buffed by demo
Seems like a silly thing to cling to
I don't mind it being on GCD; just saying that it makes no real sense for this spec.
chilly brook
Completely off topic but I’m excited but also really worried to see what blizz has cooking for blizz con
rapid jewel
We could also need a CD vs dots.
warm plinth
I just want to see cross-faction grouping so we can finally end this disgusting faction imbalance.
exotic spoke
Demo shout helps too 🙂
warm plinth
And I can actually play the races I want to play and still be able to play with my friends
exotic spoke
Rallying cry / last stand. Shield wall. Actually all of our CDs help
chilly brook
I’ve never really understood why we need horde or alliance only raids when 99% of the time it’s both of us going after the same enemy and putting the war on hold
rapid jewel
last stand vs grieving wounds is a double edge sword 🙂
exotic spoke
Just dwarf that off. And you said dots originally humtol
Also - obligatory:
Sounds like a healing problem
warm plinth
lol
chilly brook
Truth tho
rapid jewel
grievious is a dot in my opinion
exotic spoke
It is a dot. But you said dots and grievous is a unique type of dot.
chilly brook
A dot in control of your healer
exotic spoke
All of our cooldowns work against dots. But if you specified grievous you handle that differently
tame garden
You arent supposed to be fully self sufficient. Relying on healers is an intended part of gameplay atm
Grievous is a healer affix
warm plinth
Healer + don't stand in shit :p
tame garden
Abyssal health pot is your best friend
warm plinth
I've been carrying health pots the last few weeks and man.
It's amazing when you have health pots that actually do a relevant amount of healing
exotic spoke
Dwarfing is great too. It removes grevious and then you start over building stacks up
chilly brook
Health pots are goat this xpac
warm plinth
I hope they give us another new one at some point in this last tier
rapid jewel
I had a shaman once and he needed full 15 seconds (out of combat) to get me over 90%. It kinda sucks you hcant help him there except using shieldwall
chilly brook
Sounds like a healer problem
warm plinth
What even is the % on grievous now
exotic spoke
Did you eat humtol?
I’m guessing not.
Because you should have mage food or fish feasts to help
warm plinth
I want fighter chow back
rapid jewel
nah i wanted to check if it makes sense to finish that run
warm plinth
Darkmoon food is 10% hp per second; easy heal for grievous
exotic spoke
And that’s why your shaman struggled
warm plinth
No reason not to use food against grievous; that's just making the healer's life more difficult for zero gain
exotic spoke
@warm plinth you can get effects from mage food and dark moon sugar crusted fish feast at the same time
warm plinth
Oh? I did not know that. But that'd still be 15% right? Mage is 100% HP over 20 seconds, so 5% per second, and then Feast is 100% over 10 seconds
But I get your point
exotic spoke
Sure - math is hard. But 15% is huge
warm plinth
It is
warm plinth
He already has to put up with being a shaman; he doesn't need your help!
exotic spoke
We get 4 stacks of mage food before we do keys and after a rough pull we stop and eat to help for like 5 seconds
tame garden
Yeah sitting around waiting for grievous to get healed after a rough pull is wasted time
Eat up!
warm plinth
Speaking of eating though
rapid jewel
yeah, that is what You usually do. If you want to check if kings rest is possible with him, you test him.
exotic spoke
And get hearthstones too
warm plinth
What kind of kibble does Riki get for you Speg?
tame garden
warm plinth
😂
exotic spoke
I mean, testing is fine. But you’re actively holding your group back
Sitting around and not helping
@warm plinth only the best for speg
warm plinth
That seems like an odd way to test a healer tbh lol
chilly brook
I mean obviously the play with a shaman healer is to not eat and wait until you’re low before you get healed cuz shaman heals scale with missing health amirite? 🙃
sand egret
If i were that healer i’d be like “well my tank doesnt know what to do, doesnt make sense to do this run”
tame garden
Shaman on grievous is so miserable
warm plinth
Shaman was probably just being stubborn. "Well, he's not gonna eat so he's gonna wait while I heal him up as slowly as possible" lul
tame garden
Depends on the level of key
rapid jewel
11
exotic spoke
Were you dying?
chilly brook
I mean was he doing damage and was anyone dying?
tame garden
Then yes I would finish the 11
rapid jewel
yeah 5 death till first boss, 2 during boss
tame garden
But I dont really leave keys ever
warm plinth
I mean, it's a fuckin 11. Just finish it XD
tame garden
So maybe I'm biased
exotic spoke
I mean, 20k hps is plenty for 10s-12s under most cases.
How did you need so much healing
warm plinth
I only do 19-20k HPS in 10s/11s on my druid because that's all that's needed.
exotic spoke
You meaning your group
chilly brook
Were the deaths players not doing mechanics or was it actually lack of healing?
rapid jewel
on the whole group 20k in king rest on grievious week?
chilly brook
Because there’s a lot of shit for melee to avoid in KR
rapid jewel
could not keep up with dot + grievious from first boss
warm plinth
So why was that not a good enough test?
exotic spoke
Honestly sounds like the whole group wasn’t playing well
warm plinth
Vs. just not eating while he's healing grievous out of combat lol
exotic spoke
Though it’s hard to say without logs
rapid jewel
yeah thats true, after the boss it was my final test if it makes sense
not sure if players didnt use cds to help out with dot or used some potion, but that night I didnt want to babysit
warm plinth
Yeah I mean I wasn't there. I can't defend the guy because he could have actually been a shit healer. That boss can be rough for a healer though because you have back to back spit + tank damage + grievous, especially if he was actually geared for that level of content.
exotic spoke
They may not have interrupted / done mechanics / used CDs is what it actually sounds like
Or he could be bad
Or both
Logs would tell - but meh it’s irrelevant
tame garden
I mean the healer was probably bad
rapid jewel
yeah it was also 2 month in the past, hard to find that one 🙂
exotic spoke
Lol ghash
tame garden
But grievous kr is not fun to heal
warm plinth
😄
exotic spoke
It’s irrelevant because it’s already done imo. And if we don’t have logs we can’t say
rapid jewel
no grievious KR isnt fun to tank eather 😉
warm plinth
Fine, take my fun
exotic spoke
The point I was making is that we have CDs for (most) dots. Grievous is a special dot where some of ours don’t work as well
warm plinth
Yeah grievous serpent is one of the fights where grievous actually matters to me (havoc main) 😬
chilly brook
Anyone else excited about seeing what blizz has to announce?
tame garden
rapid jewel
sure, I hope they dont cut level in half and add max lvl 70. Something more interesting would be nice
tame garden
What's wrong with a lvl squish
exotic spoke
It’s just a number
tame garden
Theres too many levels atm
chilly brook
A level squish is irrelevant to me tbh
rapid jewel
yeah, a hero class level system (where you stay 60) with 10 levels and new talents after every 2 levels would be something nice
chilly brook
Doesn’t matter if we’re 130, 3000, or 70
brittle owl
wasnt it 5 levels just for cata doe
rapid jewel
but something really NEW would be nice
chilly brook
New stuff for classes is what I really want
brittle owl
honestly the paragon ststem, or whatever its called, from ESO would be nice
chilly brook
And not a “we’re reworking how everything works with less” new
@brittle owl champion points
brittle owl
that's the thing
rapid jewel
they could add more complexity to the game. The talent system is old and boring, the azerite passive where a boring (playwise) joke
chilly brook
Granted I don’t know if I would want to have champion points to the same extent as ESO
brittle owl
maybe
chilly brook
It’s been a massive balancing problem for them
exotic spoke
Please no endless paragon system
brittle owl
the fact that it's account wide progression is the nice part
chilly brook
ESOs isn’t really endless
Not even close they cap the points you can put in
It’s been raised over the years but it’s always capped
rapid jewel
I dont need the complexity /variety of PoE in wow but something new would be nice. I dont care if they fuck up balance for the first raid tier to be honest
exotic spoke
If I have people coming back halfway through an expansion after being off the first half it absolutely is
chilly brook
ESOs is pretty good for that (catch up that is), that being said I honestly don’t think paragon is the move for WoW
exotic spoke
It’s healthy to catch up and not have to grind paragons
I know - I’m expanding on my point
chilly brook
Paragon tbh only works in open ended build games which WoW is not
rapid jewel
and I really want set bonuses back. They changed playstyle a lot between tiers
chilly brook
I don’t think anyone disagrees
brittle owl
^
chilly brook
With the essences thing or tiers
brittle owl
dunno about hype
chilly brook
Azerite gear potential was squandered
brittle owl
but it would make the game more readable
rapid jewel
they will squish, i am 100% certain about that
chilly brook
No clue if they’ll do it with 9.0
brittle owl
'blizz squish!' is becoming a meme
chilly brook
Since they already made the 120 boost
rapid jewel
essence potential and azerite potential, both where way behind what they could have achieved
brittle owl
the boost doesnt affect it
rapid jewel
but with the GCD changes and fear of adding to much buttons, they shot themself in the food
brittle owl
the boost is basically 'get a current expac max lvl char'
rapid jewel
Changes the boost from 120 to 60 is probally changing one sungle variable in the code
chilly brook
Probably but I’m going to be stubborn and say level squish isn’t going to come 9.0
rapid jewel
Would you change races if you have access to other races?
chilly brook
But we’ll find out soon enough 🙃
If I had access to DID on horde prolly
Then again panda>all
rapid jewel
dwarf racial is just so nice in some situations 🙂
chilly brook
Screw the racial I wanna be a dwarf with a flaming beard
The only downside is the stupid animation set
rapid jewel
whats bothering me since 15 years is, that caster dont use weapons for casting
chilly brook
RIFT had the most badass one hands with offhand caster animation
Actually it had good staff casts too
strong forum
wow animations are just enough to not be lame, and not be overly gimmicky
unlike every korean mmo ever
rapid jewel
no they are pretty lame tbh
strong forum
where every animation is ultra gimmicky
chilly brook
I mean weapon casts can actually be pretty good tbh
We got melee in WoW with weapon casts but not ranged 🤔
rapid jewel
and give me a rune or mog option to wear my onehand sowrd on the back pls
rapid jewel
colouring options (if you not limit it) will be a clown fiesta
brittle owl
tbh i'd like to see coloring options added
since
you could basically see the spectrum in game
unpopular oppinion: i prefer oldschool cast animations :(
sand egret
Thing about animations: part of the design is to not make them too identifiable as it is easier to spot redundancy. I prefer the more subtle approach WoW takes to animations, the one handed "slap"/quick cast animations for instant spells for instance are fantastic. More complex animations are more identifiable, become more tiring after repeated use, and look weirder in a dynamic game when attempting to constantly create blends between other complex animations. The amount of foot-skating you see in a lot of games with more "complex" animations is....jarring
See: Ferocious Bite animation
coral marsh
does anyone have a good pug friendly route for boralus +15 this week? last dungeon i need on +15 for the achieve...
chilly brook
@sand egret oh you mean foot skating like SWTOR when you move during any animation xD
coral marsh
i guess there is no good boralus route this week
brittle owl
you go from start
to end
😂
the pain in boralus is the bolster
routing wont help there
CC/smort dps will
maybe bolster a spotter and 1 shot mobs👀
coral marsh
ye but its simply not pug friendly to expect dps to root all the elites
warm plinth
Yeah the main thing in Siege is to make sure commanders die fast and if you're gonna bolster a spotter, either get it low first or plan to wipe when you're done with it
sick sentinel
It's not the bolster that sucks
coral marsh
how can you abuse a spotter for dps?
warm plinth
You kill low health shit to get a bunch of bolster stacks, then hit the mobs with the sighted artillery
coral marsh
am i always the target for that?
coral marsh
is this the azerite cannon aoe?
brittle owl
sighted artillery
coral marsh
hm and surviving her melees is not a problem?
warm plinth
You just let her run away
brittle owl
just stay out of range
warm plinth
She doesn't need to be near you to do it; as long as you're in LoS she'll use it
coral marsh
ok and how much damage can you expect from that? does it oneshot the packs around the giant boss?
warm plinth
Depends on how bolstered she is, but it's significant damage even without any bolstering
Keep in mind though that she can't hit the commanders with it
So they need to die or they're gonna bolster like crazy
coral marsh
hm and the two packs around the first boss? do you have to root the elites and then kite the small ones to the back wall?
because bolster
coral marsh
ye its a separate thing because i saw a vid where they rooted the big guys of those two packs and then pulled the little ones of both and aoed them at the wall
not sure if that is necessary
warm plinth
Oh, I mean, you can do it that way I guess. We just do 1 pack at a time and focus the higher health shit
Probably faster than separating unless you're practiced at it. A PUG probably isn't going to do that very efficiently
coral marsh
ye thats what i was thinking
i will just small pull got shrine and kr with that tactic today
thanks
will look out for the emissaries
coral marsh
i can imagine that
warm plinth
What key levels are you doing btw?
coral marsh
on +15 its quite easy if you skip the bad packs, but 19 i dont want to imagine the big pack in the first boss room
im just doing everythin on 15 and only need boralus as the last one
to get the achieve
warm plinth
Yeah especially on fortified...ugh
coral marsh
if you do and survive the pack before the third boss you are the real champ, if that is possible at all xd
warm plinth
Oh the one with the beastmaster right before the 2 zerkers?
coral marsh
ye the 5 pack with bleeds and shit
warm plinth
I'm not sure how that's gonna go; we might just shroud in/invis out if we can lol. Or just CC shit or something. I don't know what the tank's plan is yet
coral marsh
ye shroud/invis that xd works great
warm plinth
But usually it's the one big pack in 1st boss room and the shooting miniboss that we have issue with because she hits like a train
coral marsh
ye that pack is aids, we did root emissary and considered lusting but didnt, zul was a real pain but we lusted there
warm plinth
If I can get a chance to practice the skip, we might skip him. Otherwise, well, we do have a DH tank. They handle him pretty well actually.
random urchin
I hardly run KR, care to educate me on this Zul skip?
sick sentinel
need a dh to do it
warm plinth
Yeah you have to jump up on to a pillar and then jump/fel rush over the top of the gate
Then pull boss and die while your group shrouds past Zul. Gate opens when boss resets
random urchin
Ohh that one, never mind then! I read it wrong and thought it said that warriors had a zul skip too.
warm plinth
Nah I'm just a havoc DH with a prot war alt 😄
strong forum
time to quit wow
strong forum
😏
rapid jewel
I would rather recommend PoE over diablo
rapid jewel
Oo
rapid jewel
ok true, it needs some time to get used too. Its not really beginner friendly
rapid jewel
what do you mean? To slow?
warm plinth
👀
undone sun
Ît
coral marsh
if they really do no faction merge idk alli is dead
prisma crane
^
exotic spoke
We’re already dead inside. Just finish the job
chilly brook
can we talk about this real quick
THE GUY WHO NEEDED 25 OTHER PEOPLE TO KILL HIS SON WHO WAS A MINION AND FAR LESS POWERFUL THAN THE LICH KING GOT A CUT IN ON HER BUT THE LICH KING COULDN'T WADU HEK
distant crystal
that was a really clean siege lol
distant crystal
talking about MDI
warm plinth
Oh
distant crystal
Method EU did a perfect one
and then they just had a sick comeback in Shrine after an early wipe
distant crystal
gamers revolt
they've got trill now
gamer's revolt had last boss of shrine at like 12% to method's 72%
exotic spoke
Method EU pissed they lost to Method NA
warm plinth
On tyr or fort?
distant crystal
and finished first, then stood around for 25 seconds while their death disadvantage ticked down
tyr
2 UDKs
warm plinth
Damn
distant crystal
udk bursting to like 800K
lol
just straight deleted the boss
72% to 0% in like, 30 seconds?
18 tyrannical
warm plinth
Jesus
brittle ledge
anyone seeing MDI?
could it be the battlefiedl precision difference on the trait
making that much difference on the DPS
of the rest of the team
on the WM Method EU VS Abra
strong forum
No
MEU is just better at playing their classes
They're outdpsing literally everybody all the time
inland mesa
did anyone show the Kyrian trait for Prot? I can't seem to find it
or is it the crappy: Throw a spear doing damage and a dot, and tethers the mobs hit with it
distant crystal
wth
Naowh is running Merektha's Fang
lmao
i was just like wtf did he just channel
strong forum
So I saw right
distant crystal
strong forum
I mean it kinda makes sense? Since it's mongo huge pulls
distant crystal
ye
strong forum
And thats one of the few trinkets that doesn't downscale
distant crystal
they all love C&S minor
strong forum
Obv
distant crystal
would like to see some logs of their runs
i guess they're finding the uptime satisfactory
coral marsh
with the power of being desired as a prot war i now got keystonemaster purely with randoms, impossible to achieve that with dps war
strong forum
Not impossible, but defo easier
distant crystal
fury pipes
coral marsh
i got it in 3 resets, i remember how people simply stopped inviting me after +10s in season 1 as an arms war, it was miserable
and i dont really blame them, dps war is just a trashy dps dh
exotic spoke
Season 1 was scuffed
coral marsh
i miss the hard hitting stuff of season 1, like the shark of boss 3 freehold and stuff like that, lame when they nerfed all the hard stuff
or boss 1 kings rest
xd
exotic spoke
I mean, it’s still hard hitting
The nerfed then to bring them closer to in line with other dungeons so they aren’t completely dead at higher keys
strong forum
You miss hard hitting? Go try 20+
3rd boss KR bleed does 50% hp every 2 seconds
1st boss still fucking destroys
Kr is still way harder than any other key for no reason other than blizzard refusing to nerf it
Or patching anything at all, cuz their patching philosophy is 19 years old
exotic spoke
Alliance siege sucks too Nome
warm plinth
@inland mesa It's a class trait, not spec, so if that's the actual spell and not just something they created for the panel, that'll be our ability with that covenant
inland mesa
that seems underwhelming doesn't it, so hopefully another covenant is better
rapid jewel
hey its finally a displacement for us
warm plinth
Yeah it is a displacement
rapid jewel
I was hoping for one very long. On some affixes its just super usefull
inland mesa
displaces how? does it work like ursol's?
rapid jewel
for me it sounds like one
sure its not an always grate ability, but you can change convenant if you want
limpid pawn
hm...
so i got a 430 servant splitter with a socket
it's simming higher than my 435 sharkbaits fishhook
warm plinth
That's not surprising
limpid pawn
i thought weapon damage was super high ranking
i guess that socket + the proc is sick
warm plinth
For survival/general purposes yes. Not for DPS
It's still really good for DPS but the proc on servant splitter is really good for ST
So I'm not surprised it edges out 5 ilevels, especially with a socket
limpid pawn
hm... i now have full perfect benthic, with 7 total socket pieces
this is funny, RNG until the gear is fully socketed
12 sockets is the dream I guess
grim nymph
Do the guards / captains in waycrest do unblockable damage or something?
near ivy
shadow damage
warm plinth
Yeah shadow cleave and uh...can't remember if captain's strike is shadow or not
grim nymph
Just tanked a 15 and had to spend most of my time kiting them around :\
warm plinth
Yeah it's just the shadow cleave according to my logs. How many were you tanking?
grim nymph
4+witch
grim nymph
the one that casts "marking cleave"...forget the name
grim nymph
Pretty sure that's what it was called
warm plinth
But yeah double pulling those, especially with a witch is generally not a great idea
Not unless you're planning on using some CDs and defensives
potent anvil
Captain's Strike is physical and blockable/parry-able. Bewitched Captains are the ones doing most of the damage only because their auto attacks actually hurt. Enthralled Guards' do like half the auto attack damage, but the only reason they feel scary is because shadow slash kind of spikes you on top of all the melee damage incoming.
warm plinth
Do you think you'll ever get your real name back?
potent anvil
iirc, Enthralled Guards' damage profile is like 60% physical (auto attacks) 40% shadow (shadow cleave). If you were to eat every cleave.
Uh, I could ask 
warm plinth
Also was not aware you could dodge their cleave as the tank; I guess I assumed it followed you
potent anvil
If you kite them, they'll attempt to shadow cleave a nearby target instead
warm plinth
Oh
potent anvil
So essentially you dodged them, sucks for the other guy
warm plinth
But they'd have to be in front of the mob right? Or will they turn?
potent anvil
They will turn to face someone
warm plinth
Ah okay
potent anvil
I believe they track you once they cast, but I don't pay attention
warm plinth
Paying attention is for squares
potent anvil
As a prot warr, I'd probably still recommend dps to focus enthralled guards over captains, since you can just rely on blocking.
oblique garnet
Im like 90% sure they will try to cast it on you even if you are not on range instead of closeby friendlies
shut summit
You can get oor of them and still cast on you ye
If constantly backpedal won't hit you/ still is cast on you
warm plinth
Interesting to know
oblique garnet
Im also pretty sure sense told that in here at like s1 or s2 aswell🤔
potent anvil
I see
warm plinth
When it says that thorn barrage is reflectable, does that mean actual reflect or just mitigated?
warm plinth
Gotcha
It said that it was both blockable and reflectable Late; that's why I asked :p
shut summit
Looking at logs might just be extremely lucky parries which show as deflects since it's a spell (and happens to be with SR up)
warm plinth
Could be
shut summit
Will check in like 6months when I do m+ again 😂
warm plinth
Don't make me sad Sense 😢
oblique garnet
If it were deflects spell reflect would be consumed right?
Because i remember last time we had this discussion i went in to just test if it was
And sr wasnt consumed
exotic spoke
Sometimes with channeled spells too iirc
shadow wind
Apparently shadow of zul still melees
Should I be using shield block or dump it all on IP?
near ivy
apparently according to what/who
warm plinth
Yeah he does melee.
I mean, he does damage with melee; sounds worth using SB to me.
Yeah most of his damage is magic but reducing damage is reducing damage
shadow wind
but would the 30 rage spent on SB be worth compared to saving it for an extra IP
warm plinth
Idk I guess it depends on how hard he's meleeing you
outer dew
It honestly depends.
If you're spamming ip only
Chances are you'll overcap ip
Or your rage
near ivy
aint worth keeping up if you need that IP to not die
at a level that matters tho, i imagine that your IP's are getting one shot?
so the question is can you generate IP's faster than he can shoot
sick sentinel
no reason to use SB on zul after decent keys
near ivy
feel free to correct me here
sick sentinel
you just dont do it
near ivy
better to use that than to overcap IP
sick sentinel
you dont tho one hit consumes it
shadow wind
I definitely feel more starved for rage than overcapping on rage when facing zul
lusty grotto
@warm plinth @sand egret am i late to the party
did you see that spear shit
from the kyrian abilities
probably am, boomers slow
screw you too @outer dew
🙂
lusty grotto
nothing
just wanted to say screw you
also we need dwarf priests in classic please come
😄
placid oar
Hi guys, I’m starting out as new prot warrior for offspec. Are there BiS trinkets or we are better off using the higher ilvl ones and following the wowhead guide? I have a 455 Urchin, Rezan with socket 430 and 450 mektha. Would sincerely appreciate any guidance. Thank you
It is mostly for M+ to help tank if I’m needed.
Cheers
tacit smelt
Urchin is a must the higher you go in keys
placid oar
Got it, thank you Quackr
I guess the 2nd will vary while I try to get the Edict from Queens.
tacit smelt
Use rezans too sinc haste helps both offensively and defensively
placid oar
I find it a challenge to stop being squishy cos I usually play with 40fps and 200-400ms when I connect to USA servers (time I usually get to play mostly)
I see
Okay!!
Really appreciate it
I’ll try it out and learn the routes as i tank
warm plinth
Nim I already beat Shadowlands where you been @lusty grotto
tacit smelt
I'd use the fang in a moar coordinates groups where you're most guaranteed to be getting max potential out of it but rezans the way to go
warm plinth
tbh I would just use rezan+urchin.
You can't block/dodge/parry while merektha is channeling, and you can't move
It's too much of a hassle to get effective use out of it
chilly brook
Urchin is actually crazy
warm plinth
455 urchin is fuckin broken
placid oar
Okay got it, rezans with pugs but fang when I’m with guidlies or friends since we will be more co-ordinated
chilly brook
I wouldn't use fang at all
chilly brook
so many better trinkets
placid oar
Will scrap it then
Thanks a lot guys
Oh yes, for routes. I can check wowhead? Are there any other sites u guys would recommend for a new tank like myself?
stark scroll
Yeah
warm plinth
👍
warm plinth
I can't possibly carry someone who is behind because they were LOST IN THE PAST
clever crater
Just noticed I have 64k Titan Residuum today. Should I try to get a 'reroll' on any 450 item? If yes, which one should I discard? I know you guys don't like AzeritePowerWeights, so I'm in doubt
rapid jewel
@clever crater you have to keep chest, since its your only dc. What are you mainly aiming, raid orm+?
hallow phoenix
Ah I can actually see this pic if I rotate screen. I'd still reroll helm
Or if you're able to clear mythic radiance, reroll chest after getting the radiance helm
rapid jewel
in m+ I actually prefer iron fortress over brace for impact.
clever crater
@rapid jewel I mainly mythic, but I'm starting to raid, I don't like big groups of ppl