as in is it useful
#protection
ionic fern
👀
strong forum
edict is one of the best trinkets geezus fuck just say it
tame garden
Never ignore ilvls
exotic spoke
Yes luffy. It’s very good for its Ilvl
native mantle
ah okay then
tame garden
Only look for leech
exotic spoke
And even better in your case
native mantle
thanks a bunch
ionic fern
Time to go kill Orgo and get that Inkpod.
strong forum
hes losing it
lusty grotto
cosmic coral
for m+ would Jes' Howler 445 be better than 410 mecha trink mast/haste lazer beam? i have a 440 Rezan eye in other slot
cosmic coral
ah okay, i see all my gmates using it so i just assumed, ty tho
cosmic coral
what essences would be pref? Im currently running vision major, c&s and lucid minor
would it change based on week?
warm plinth
Gross
lusty grotto
hmm
strong forum
i got the last missing trinket last week too
now i have all raid trinkets at 445+ apart from the useless one
strong forum
laughs in 450 edict 450+s urchin 445 coral 445 inkpod 445 phial
cosmic coral
what combination should i choose between 440 eye, 445 howler, and 440 vial, ik theres a lot of variables involved but just thoughts
strong forum
rezan + vial
cosmic coral
ty
exotic spoke
I like howler. Rezan and howler or rezan and vial are both fine
undone sun
You're both fine
strong forum
😳
rapid jewel
any tips for serated edge on queen azshara p1?
coral marsh
which two rings would you equip? 430 vers haste socket, 430 haste vers avoidance, 425 mastery haste socket
warm plinth
Both sockets
exotic spoke
^^
coral marsh
thanks
pearl kelp
Should I go Skyscorchers with Basion+Brace for Impact+Ablative Shielding or Trench Tyrant's Bloodsport+Reckless Flurry+OP?
sweet summit
Trench Tyrant's, Brace for impact+IF/RF+OP
for raid fights
and skyscorchers for m+
pearl kelp
Sweet I only tank in M+ thanks
sweet summit
oh, and TAKE UNSTABLE FLAMES INSTEAD OF ABLATIVE SHIELDING!!
pearl kelp
Will do is there specific essences I should use in M+ I have been doing Visions major Memory barrier minors
exotic spoke
Do you have CnS @pearl kelp
pearl kelp
yes I do @exotic spoke which would i replace?
pearl kelp
Really giving up that null dps is interesting
acoustic sparrow
aegis can replace CnS right?
exotic spoke
Null dps is incredibly minor in m+
Aegis can if you pull big enough. CnS is technically better
It’s 2k dps split between the mobs.
high quest
does prot take the least amount of damage out of all the tanks?
pearl kelp
Nah that's monks we just do the most
distant crystal
no prot definitely takes the least
but it's because we don't self heal much at all
pearl kelp
I thought Monk took less
distant crystal
external healing required is the more useful metric and monks are probably the lowest on that right now
pearl kelp
And DK
high quest
which tank would need the least external healing atm?
distant crystal
🤔
chilly brook
least external? probably warriors assuming it's all blockable damage @high quest
@pearl kelp historically monk has always taken the most damage out of all tanks because they don't "mitigate" any damage it just goes into stagger after it's reduced by whatever armor/absorb they have
broken isle
Imagine a tank with a permanent external on it lol that's monk
chilly brook
And DK takes a lot of damage as well
exotic spoke
Depends on the fight.
chilly brook
That's not even true though because stagger isn't really an external
you take the damage just spread out instead of all up front
exotic spoke
Warriors can cycle CDs and go. If it’s melee damage we can survive a very long time on our own with proper play
coral marsh
stagger is too easy imo
broken isle
Still makes oneshots impossible and heavy hits into small ones
chilly brook
didn't used to be
coral marsh
in legion monks were balanced when they had to be at half life all the time
chilly brook
Stagger becoming more and more powerful is a more recent phenomenon
distant crystal
so they don't need the external healing that they used to
chilly brook
no they have a bug
exotic spoke
I take heavy hits and make the damage go away. Monks take heavy hits and take the damage over time
chilly brook
lol
exotic spoke
Taking double m grong smash was fun. They wouldn’t let me take triple
chilly brook
@broken isle if you get one shot as pretty much any tank you fucked up especially as prot warrior
coral marsh
against magic damage stagger feels much better really braindead
chilly brook
I don't disagree there
broken isle
The magic dmg change is what made monks super op imo in legion stagger wasn't as big of a deal
chilly brook
I mean ISB was a big enough of a deal in legion that taking hits without it fucked you
broken isle
I've never played a brew and mostly play fury so y'all would know more
chilly brook
not so much in BFA
I mained BrM in WoD and Legion
WoD BrM was somewhat not braindead
pearl kelp
@chilly brook can't they half their damage taken?
chilly brook
You can purify but limited charges and why would you?
unless your healer is actually struggling
And if you have one brew charge and have to pick between extending ISB or purifying you ISB always
Even if your stagger is 400% of your health
broken isle
Lotta people in my guild think blizz needs to take stagger outta the game to make people happy
chilly brook
They don't
broken isle
I dont think its such a huge deal
chilly brook
Tbh it's a non issue
The only reason my guild has me on BrM is because of the 5% melee buff
chilly brook
Sure in high keys not in mythic raid xD
exotic spoke
They don’t. It’s why monks are a tank at all. It is their niche
chilly brook
CoF is better single target
exotic spoke
Take it out and what do they have
broken isle
Like people were able to clear EP with prot warrs u kno
It's not like Blood DK on 2nd to last boss on Antorus
exotic spoke
Repeat after me:
“All tanks are viable”
chilly brook
Ideally what they should do is revert monk to an earlier design version where stagger wasn't as strong and it was only one tool in their arsenal to deal with damage
broken isle
If u didn't have a BDK on that fight idk how u beat it
exotic spoke
Coven?
chilly brook
Nah Aggramar
broken isle
The one with the elementals
exotic spoke
Ah
chilly brook
Honestly people put too much stock in what they see the "top tier" players doing without realizing the "why" behind their decisions
exotic spoke
Wait
Hold on
But
I saw nerf and other prots sacrificing Ilvl for leech. It has to be good
Right. @lusty grotto
frigid heart
Usually I agree but BrM on Azshara is pretty ridiculous
broken isle
Za'qul, Orgo, even Sivara. BrM destroy those fights too
frigid heart
I swapped to my monk never played before, 430 ilvl and feels invincible compared to my 447 warr
chilly brook
not ridiculous to the point of other tanks not being able to do the fights
distant crystal
shield spec shaman is not viable >:|
frigid heart
For QA
broken isle
It's not simply they're really good. I feel like they actually break the fights lol
frigid heart
Yeah but sometimes it is worth doing what top guilds do is all I’m saying 🙂
exotic spoke
Brm only on orgo for two tanking instead of three tanking
distant crystal
monks have some interesting mechanics that are nice
like being able to dual tank m orgo
tho it's a bit dicey
chilly brook
stagger scaling off of main stat was a dumb idea
broken isle
1 tank za'qul? Tho technically people did 1 tank star augur but any tank could I guess
distant crystal
did monks do anything special for 1 tanking zaq?
i thought that was mostly a havoc dh leech being sweet thing
exotic spoke
So, if your tank is monk or a high mitigation tank it helps
It’s with the recent change waat.
distant crystal
so wouldn't warrior be better if it's the post-mitigation melee dmg that transfers??
exotic spoke
After the nerf to picking who you were tethered to they changed it so the tether only transfers melee damage
sharp night
monk is far better
distant crystal
still seems dicey tho sending that to a rando raid member
exotic spoke
Monk because stagger doesn’t transfer
sharp night
they dodge half the melees as well
exotic spoke
But theoretically possible for a warrior to do it too
sharp night
so you basically transfer no damage
broken isle
I'm no blizz designer but
exotic spoke
However, if my guild wants to one tank it.... it would have to be our prot warrior
Instead of our monk to do it
Because, raid leading
broken isle
Its hard to mess with stagger since it's the entire core of the spec
broken isle
But they saved prot warr so maybe itll work out in the end
sand egret
i wouldnt be surprised if they messed with its cadence
oblique garnet
Tanking zaqul is fine with warrior
marble cipher
Overwhelming Power or Unstable Flames (M+)?
chilly brook
Like at the end of the day, I've seen Vengeance Demon Hunters laugh at the damage intake of M Org
exotic spoke
Solo tanking it late?
chilly brook
Tank balance is pretty goofd
oblique garnet
Yeah
exotic spoke
I figured as much. Still working on court so couldn’t speak first hand
oblique garnet
No point solotanking if you arent zerging it tbh
exotic spoke
High mitigation means less damage getting pushed through to the tether
oblique garnet
You will have to hold dps anyways
exotic spoke
Fair
chilly brook
I honestly do think people overstate the power of BrM tho, the only times I die on a prot warrior where I wouldn't have as a monk is when healers are just bad
Which in and of itself is a merit
near ivy
there are simply pulls a brm can live that a warrior cant
exotic spoke
The advantage of BrM is that the stagger really helps before you have the gear. It’s why it’s so prevalent in CE guilds
near ivy
especially with certain types of magic damage
exotic spoke
For raiding
chilly brook
Also true
exotic spoke
Before you even consider M+
So when doing splits, it’s one fewer person to worry about as much as your dps
chilly brook
On the topic of magic damage I'd rather take a DH
rancid heron
hello warrior friends, I'd like to ask another trinket question for prot. A 415 eye of rezan with a socket vs a 430 merektha's fang. What would be better?
vestal edge
Does rank 4 null minor shield get updated appearance too or just the major
warm plinth
@marble cipher Overwhelming Power
exotic spoke
@rancid heron probably rezans
rancid heron
I was thinking that
warm plinth
Yeah, Merektha's was not fun to try to use. So glad I'm rid of that thing.
rancid heron
thanks fellars
umbral forge
@exotic spoke Sorry
exotic spoke
for what?
umbral forge
My Warrior is now LFD
exotic spoke
You should have been regular space goat
but thats a step in the right direction so Im not that made
mad*
umbral forge
they don't have nearly as good beard
distant crystal
Dorf or bust
sick sentinel
Suck it slut
undone sun
oof
warm plinth
@umbral forge you’re always Nightborne to me
distant crystal
👀
last gazelle
Anyone know the enrage timer on 2nd phase orgo with the adds?
like how long it takes the naga to enrage
shut summit
exotic spoke
Oof Ghash
hallow phoenix
Binding shot is so nice
ionic fern
Chances are you'll end up with a big ass bird then.
ionic fern
Big bird is a time waste.
Just CC big ones, pull multiple packs of tiny together.
Then pull big ones together.
sick sentinel
in all the packs if you taunt the right target the bigbird doesnt follow
or just sap/blind etc.
coral marsh
in regards to kings rest this week, how do you pull the two zul minion packs without bolstering something up and how do you survive the packs at first boss room top left and before the third boss room entrance?
a resto shaman couldnt keep me up in those two packs and the zul minions always bolstered one mob to mini boss levels after i tried to pull the first zul minions upstairs and the small right pack in first bosses room to the gong, in both cases either the zul minions or a golem auto aggrod (golem because of void, minions because of patrol bullshit it seems)
ionic fern
Rogue can solo soak minions of Zul.
In the first boss room you should pull them separately but that's not always doable depending on the key level and the DPS available to you.
So in first boss room you wanna pull the right back - nuke them down before the minions of Zul will move past that and then pull them. I'm not sure but if you run with a druid i'd assume you can also root the minions in place so they won't move onwards.
The 2 top packs in the first boss room is just one thing:
Interrupt/SR the casts and dodge the tornadoes - those are the things that wreck you - as long as those are under control you're fine.
coral marsh
and the pack before third boss? with like 5 mobs and also emissary?
sick sentinel
you mostly shroud it
ionic fern
In general you wanna skip that pack with invis potS/shroud.
sick sentinel
if you wanna play that pack however i suggest you to kite after using defensives high chance it will destroy you after 2 stacks of bolster
coral marsh
it would be just nice timewise to do it because you can shroud the berserker packs then which take so much time kiting them downstairs, rooting a caster etc.
sick sentinel
well if your groups has a dh and knows how to skip zul then you can shroud all the way
also skip the berserkers and berserkers can be handled with any kind of pet or parry/dodge soaks
i also suggest you to use engi helmet with bleed trait
it works great in KR can delete bleeds
coral marsh
zul skip is an exploit?
ionic fern
And if you happen to be a Dwarf by any tiny chance you can also racial.
ionic fern
That's what has been said about every exploit ever.
marble cipher
that's choosing the best of two evils right? Or is bulwark actually good (M+), number looks so low?
ionic fern
Better than nothing. 🤷
marble cipher
True I guess
sick sentinel
the way zul is tuned is really annoying in high keys and being that high magic damage its sad you have to use stupid tricks to pass it but yeah
sweet summit
Sounds like a healer problem if u ask me 💁
ionic fern
Overall damage taken from mobs.
Dude's a beast no way around it.
But i don't mind it.
It's a fun part of the dungeon.
sick sentinel
i did that add in couple high keys in forti my healer had 80k hps only on me no one else and i still had to kite no matter what
ionic fern
Jeah. 🤷
sick sentinel
if you ask me thats just doesnt make sense in any way most of the adds have a way to play around with stun rotations soaks interrupts
that one is a motherfucker
ionic fern
Idk, as i said i don't mind it.
Not many things get me excited but this add does.
sick sentinel
but hey what do i know of balance xd
sick sentinel
yeah there are couple mini bosses in bfa dungeons for example ludwig also hits hard in high keys forti well its physical which helps alot but if you fail one part of mitigation you can kite for couple seconds and come back
it still punishes you with losing time but doesnt just end the key aswell
jolly thistle
19 fortified zul was combined ~190k hps on my dk alt with a monk healer. Doesn’t sound like it would be fun for a prot
ionic fern
Depends on the person. 🤷
sick sentinel
on a 19 i think you can face tank it if played well
above that i dont think so
well obviously depends the on the group
one of the two things im kinda looking forward to in blizzcon the future of m+ and which direction they will be going forward
ionic fern
Probably somewhere horrible.
sick sentinel
come on man dont be pessimistic 😄
sick sentinel
well yeah sometimes they come up with good ideas and ruin it with one decision
either with catch up mechanics or gameplay-wise
i dont get it
ionic fern
It's funny to think that as a 12 year old i would have never-ever thought i'd say something like that. 😂
Then i said "It's BLIZZARD!!!" in a positive note.
brittle owl
that sounds awfully close to disdain tbh
ionic fern
Take it as you want. 🤷
brittle owl
lewd
burnt breach
You Can hate a company but still love the game
waxen talon
Stat stick trinkets are obviously better but is Edict of the Faithless usefull at all for a defensive scenario?
exotic spoke
Yes, edicts is very strong defensive trinket.
And stat sticks aren’t better defensively
waxen talon
Yee but stat sticks are generally better cuz they provide offensive bonus and defensive
exotic spoke
It depends on what you need.
waxen talon
Yee if ur gettin big time ass wooped by a boss definitly not good.
but if ur farming content never being in danger stat sticks feel better
But for example in comparison with Prism from Oppulence... isnt Edict kinda .. meh?
exotic spoke
And better is subjective, if I need offensive I’m going to go full dps with cyclo and inkpod or coral. If I need defensive I’m going full edicts and urchin
ionic fern
All the defensive trinkets are "meh". But we gotta pick the better ones from what we have available for the moments we might need them.
waxen talon
ye properly true, not too familiar with power level of this tiers dps trinkets for tanks
exotic spoke
The one thing I really like about edicts is that it can be dedicated to magic damage. So in certain dungeons it feels really good to have
Motherlode for example
waxen talon
True i just cant think of when Edict will ever be usefull if overall output is argueably less than prism? 😮
Yeee i thought of that, and the shield might actually last for a while if its magic exclusive
exotic spoke
I had a 415 prism and I have a 445 edicts. The thirty ilvls of strength really help too
sand egret
unless you’re rockin a huge TF’d prism...edicts will win
exotic spoke
^^
tame garden
sand egret
waxen talon
with fast comparison it seems like prism is higher value with even like 20-30 less ilvls lol
exotic spoke
waxen talon
if u dont consider magic exclusive aspect
exotic spoke
However, I do have a chance at a huge prism tonight. Going into mythic bod
ionic fern
Did you take into consideration the ilvl str gain or just pure Effect values?
sand egret
prism wins initially, but after x stacks edict wins
which, generally you get and maintain over whatever you’re fighting
tame garden
Theres also the passive str not just hps of the trinkets
waxen talon
just annyoin how they can never properly execute a power flow of trinkets 😦
sand egret
tbh edicts and urchin are pretty strong
exotic spoke
I mean, urchin is really good too
sand egret
and not bad trinkets, design wise
exotic spoke
And imo - urchin really complements the design and playstyle of prot
ionic fern
DMD says hi.
sand egret
they’re pretty successful if you ask me, especially looking at shit like these cheat death trinkets
waxen talon
Yee Urchin i really like
exotic spoke
Dmd?
ionic fern
Darkmoon Deck.
exotic spoke
Ahh
sand egret
well DMD was busted as shit
waxen talon
but they made 2 similiar trinkets from 2raids in a row 😄
sand egret
but those are generally super overbusgeted
exotic spoke
Not really frattp
waxen talon
yee its kind of a rule darkmoon has to be op
exotic spoke
Diamond gets better if you’re not taking damage
Edicts gets better as you take damage and use it up
So when you start to need it - edicts starts ramping up
Note - I could be wrong. It’s early and I haven’t had coffee yet
waxen talon
i feel like Edict will just get hit by 2 auto attacks while diamond having higher uptime results in it actually decreasing the damge of desired snipe
sand egret
well the two tank trinkets from the raid look extremely strong if they behave the way I think they’ll behave
the new raid*
exotic spoke
Haven’t checked those out yet
waxen talon
same
ionic fern
Balancing inc - don't worry.
sand egret
if they function like bandages, which they fit the bill for, warriors are going to have some fun synergy
waxen talon
But it feels really bad whenever they encourage clearing older raids for upgrades 😛
exotic spoke
Just don’t do them?
ionic fern
I mean - to be honest, where do you need defensive options?
exotic spoke
The odds of you get a prism worth a damn are pretty small. Also what mwahi said
ionic fern
Like NEED NEED them.
exotic spoke
Meh
ionic fern
🤷
Your survivability comes 95% of your own play.
exotic spoke
I progressed first five bosses of mythic with cyclotronic punch card and a dps trinket
waxen talon
havent raided dazar nor azhara hardcore as a tank so cant tell if theres any good tank spankers out there
exotic spoke
You need the defensives when you’re pushing like 20s in m+. But at that point you can’t sacrifice the Ilvl and so you use a 445+ edicts and urchin
waxen talon
but true, but until ur comfortable with the encounter i like havin a little advantge.
exotic spoke
I mean - there are - but the trinkets don’t make that much of a difference
ionic fern
Jeah, no harm done using defensive options.
But in general tank trinkets have been pretty poop either design/effect or value ways.
ionic fern
ionic fern
👌
exotic spoke
Howler is a good dungeon tank trinket. Some people give it shit but I like it.
Rezan and gore are my favorites but they are more stat sticks
waxen talon
next raids tank trinkets look a bit meh? 😛
not seein tuning
Atleast this absorb is on demand and has niche benefit
sand egret
so here's the thing (Extreme caveat that this is purely looking defensively here): on-use shields via trinkets apply after IP. In the case of the one from Maut, you as a warrior can SR + IP stack against any low-periodic magic damage (i.e.: huge raid-wide aoe pulses) and get a lot of value out of the extension as you're keeping the actual shield alive for longer. For the Psychic Shell, it depends on when that 70% reduction happens, cuz that could end up being one hell of an effective shield value.
random urchin
Either way. 70% reduction on a 65 second cd is pretty good
warm plinth
I only briefly looked at the trinkets but what’s the cap on the 70% trink?
Iirc it’s one of those “up to x damage” things
sand egret
yeah
warm plinth
Which almost always aren’t high enough lol
There are exceptions but I’m always hesitant
sand egret
depending on where the % is applied
warm plinth
Yeah
sand egret
if it's done in an advantageous way, that value is actually a lot higher than it looks, effectively speaking
random urchin
Yep. I think the normal version of the trinket was like 24k?
sand egret
wowhead has a 445 looking like 25k
could be shiite, could be not to bad at all for certain situations but is definitely interesting...the 1min 5 second cooldown is...funky though
warm plinth
Wait so it’s 70% reduction up to 25k damage prevented? Because that sounds like absolute trash lol
sand egret
depends on where that 70% is applied
if that 30% damage is then split between IP and your hp pool.....
random urchin
Has the potential to be good. But good chance Blizz made it not so good
sand egret
a 25k hit turns into a 3.5k hit to the shield
random urchin
Just have to wait and see
sand egret
yeah, either way, i'm curious.
exotic spoke
No
warm plinth
Nope. It’s a pretty garbage effect.
Absorb goes away instantly and thus the damage never really happens in any relevant amount.
shadow wind
Sweet, that cuts down the grind
warm plinth
Which one is that? The 12 stacks thing?
warm plinth
Whew
sand egret
could be real juicy
warm plinth
Only downside would be if it procced on the last mob of a trash pack or something XD
sand egret
then you'd fuck that poor sucker up
warm plinth
haha
tame garden
11 stacks near the end of a pull? Go pull more!
brittle owl
^
tame garden
And then wipe to bolstering
warm plinth
And hope that "attacks" doesn't mean whoops resounding protection refreshed
tame garden
But worth
brittle owl
if the trinket does poop damage you play like poop basically
warm plinth
Depends what it actually procs off I guess. I've had vision proc while running between trash backs before lol
Off something I don't even know what
elfin nexus
Got a 450 gore... dunno if I wanna drop edicts/urchin at 430.. decisions decisions
warm plinth
450 gore, jesus 😭
fresh kernel
i see a lot of warriors picking devastator in raids
is it competitive now? also is it any good in m+?
broken isle
It does the most dmg on that row
elfin nexus
It’s good for single target only
But the on demand rage from shout is very important in mythic plus
warm plinth
It's good in raids regardless of RF
elfin nexus
Yea true true
broken isle
Reset shield wall maybe nice sometimes
elfin nexus
Slam
elfin nexus
I think he means slam
broken isle
Slam yea
elfin nexus
I have a shield slam/reckless fury set for some sick boss dps for raid
But devastator wins in raid anyways despite reckless like above
broken isle
I personally don't like talents that take a button away
But cant deny it's pretty good
elfin nexus
Yea muscle memory makes me keep clicking devastate anyways lmao
I should just macro it to turn it into shield slam when I have devastator talented hmm
fresh kernel
what's the ideal traits for m+ then
signal plover
clicking devastate
warm plinth
In their defense, I have heard people refer to keybinds as clicking buttons before. Maybe everything is okay.
signal plover
Maybe
warm plinth
We can hope.
signal plover
Indeed
exotic spoke
My keyboard makes a click when I hit it
signal plover
Big if true
fresh kernel
do you ignore shield slam wwhen trying to do aoe damage?
like never shield slam unless u dont have rage for revenge
or am i misunderstanding
warm plinth
Shield Slam is still substantial damage and rage so I wouldn't ignore it completely. I still use it pretty frequently in AoE because if you don't have a proc on revenge, you probably are gonna need that rage for Shield Block or IP so you can't just freely spend it on Revenge
If you can you're probably not doing meaningful content for your gear level so you can revenge away I guess lol
fresh kernel
thanks for the answer
very informative
one more question: is memory of lucid dreams as nuts as it sounds?
spells and abilities have a chance to refund 50% of the rage spent and heal
maybe the chance is too low?
warm plinth
It's pretty good. You get rage return on abilities (I think it's around 2ppm); it also heals you and gives you a bunch of vers for 8 seconds when it procs
It's one of our better minor essences
fresh kernel
doesnt give versatility here
but maybe because its rank is too low
i use anima of life and death for my major essence
warm plinth
Yeah I think the vers is on R3
fresh kernel
it does some crazy burst, and heals too
warm plinth
Anima is pretty meme-y. Vision is better
fresh kernel
im new so only have 3 :D
warm plinth
Ah gotcha
warm plinth
It's used more to pad numbers or just look at a high number every 2.5 minutes than actually good overall.
It's not bad. It's just not better than Vision
tame garden
Visions 
warm plinth
You can get Vision R2 in a couple of weeks. Then another 2-4 weeks for R3 depending on if you can do Hard Mode or not
fresh kernel
it says it drops from king mechagon
warm plinth
Yep
fresh kernel
is it guarenteed drop?
warm plinth
Yes
outer dew
Only vision I need, is of @warm plinth
warm plinth
😍
outer dew
😍
fresh kernel
im starting to feel the same with all the answers he's been giving me
outer dew
Oi
warm plinth
😮
fresh kernel
thanks a lot man i appreciate it
warm plinth
No worries
warm plinth
exotic spoke
Oof
analog swift
Anybody here going to blizCon?
signal plover
Whoa ghash almost got catfished
tacit smelt
Can my prot brethen give me a prayer, I'm stuck main tanking M Org because other tank gets dropped like a fly at random intervals
strange rampart
what class is other tank?
tacit smelt
bdk
tacit smelt
monk, me bdk
exotic spoke
Easy mode
strange rampart
yup, though so.. without stacked boneshield, they go down pretty fast...
exotic spoke
Monk and you on orgozoa and Bdk on adds
soft kindle
No tank should struggle on orgo 🤔
tacit smelt
Ya its jsut the random spike damage that gets the bdk
i'm mostly chilling for the fight
exotic spoke
Bdk is better suited for adds anyway with grips
exotic spoke
Open with avatar and last stand. Just be sure to have block on it
I mean, I run full dps set for that
exotic spoke
But why wouldn’t you avatar on pull anyway?
tacit smelt
i do
exotic spoke
Yeah, that’s all I’m saying lol
tacit smelt
how many add sets do you guys try to get before phasing 6/7?
exotic spoke
7
brittle owl
there's only 2 tanks that have a harder time than the rest with boss tanking, and that's paladin and bdk
exotic spoke
7 gets everyone but tanks with the arcing current
brittle owl
and they both can do it, it's just the margin for error is way smaller than the other tanks
with bdk being arguably 'harder' than paladin
exotic spoke
If you’re not running dps traits / trinkets on orgo what are you even doing
brittle owl
but not by much, any other tank has an ez pz time on gorgo
tacit smelt
well bdk is harder since its more of a reactive tank
strange rampart
@brittle owl especialy when pulling first 😉
exotic spoke
Yup
brittle owl
pulling first as bdk you need to pray for parries
exotic spoke
We started with me and monk on boss and Bdk on adds. Worked well and played to each classes strengths
brittle owl
or run in with pain sup
tacit smelt
or externals
strange rampart
well, we prayed that other tank (it was DH) would be better on those spikes.. and it was 😉
brittle owl
vdh is super strong on boss
tacit smelt
^
brittle owl
fiery brand for every swap, if you run undying gift you don't need an external
soft kindle
I mean obv, vdh is strong
exotic spoke
Undying. Gift. Oof
brittle owl
if you run crucible just need an ironbark for after brand fades and you shouldn't drop below 60% like ever
exotic spoke
How can you use CoF if you do that though 
tacit smelt
🤔
exotic spoke
Why would I not play warrior?
tacit smelt
Riki you running ST essences on Org since your main tanking the boss?
or Visions for potential cleaving?
exotic spoke
Yup, CoF Major, vision and null minor
And when not on boss I walk over and thunderclap as I attack boss from behind
tame garden
Warrior has no floof
brittle owl
cuz super nice flow and all
exotic spoke
2 RF, 1 DC, 1 BoM, 1 dagger in the back, 1 SS
brittle owl
but not having any choice when gearing and/or talents is a big turnoff
exotic spoke
@brittle owl fight me bro. Warrior since day 1.
❤
strange rampart
nah, boring is VDH and sometimes monk... with warr, only negative is sometimes being frustrated by missing all that juicy utility others have 😦
brittle owl
vdh boring 🤔
soft kindle
Vdh is crazy fun
brittle owl
but i guess thats subjective
soft kindle
Wtf
exotic spoke
Spell reflect and safeguard are pretty fucking good
exotic spoke
@tame garden that’s why I adopt a Druid. It’s a great program. Maybe you should participate
brittle owl
🙁
tacit smelt
I miss mass spell reflect when it was in our main talent tree 😭
exotic spoke
Shattering throw
brittle owl
and vdh and paladin are super happy fun times
how could i burst 100k dps ST or sustain 50k dps and 100k hps otherwise
strange rampart
@exotic spoke dotn forget Gag Order... man, if they give it back to us 😦
exotic spoke
Giggity
sand egret
Speg has a point, seriously no floof with war
brittle owl
druid is for degens
exotic spoke
No
brittle owl
fite me
exotic spoke
The DKs are the degenerates
sand egret
Bears are pure indeed
exotic spoke
DKs are fucking degenerates
brittle owl
boomer edgelords
exotic spoke
All DKs
tame garden
Bear has highest swipes per second of all tanks
exotic spoke
And roars per second
tame garden
tame garden
Bear butt > puny non bear tanks
exotic spoke
Except Riki and Probablyriki cause they are Cute AF
sand egret
my bear benches more than puny tauren
exotic spoke
So bear butts / Riki / Probablyriki > *
sand egret
Bear Butts ain't nothin to fuck with
sand egret
it's very cute
exotic spoke
Wu tang is for the children
sand egret
thank you
sick sentinel
Watching #1 tank in world get on his warrior, did freehold twice and rage quit to his monk 🤧
Woyer sucks
brittle owl
who dat
sick sentinel
rads
exotic spoke
What level?
sick sentinel
23 freehold
exotic spoke
I mean - yeah. No shit at a 23. Shit starts to hurt a fuck ton
warm plinth
We'll see if they feel the same after the self healing fix and the stagger nerf (which compared to the healing fix is pretty minor tbh)
exotic spoke
Nah man. It doesn’t matter for most people. Warriors are still super strong
tame garden
Cancelling my warrior after seeing this
brittle owl
the healing fix will make monks be the counterpart to paladins tbh
exotic spoke
Speg you can do 20s
sick sentinel
Healing fit will make um poop
exotic spoke
It’s fine
warm plinth
Yeah they won't be useless but they won't feel mandatory at a certain point
brittle owl
nah they wont be poop
sick sentinel
poop to stronk warrior 🤧
warm plinth
Just means healer has to heal them more 😄
brittle owl
but just like paladin in high m+ is super good for fort
monks will be super good for tyr
brittle owl
woyer being no1 hinges on spellreflet on the new affix
exotic spoke
But seriously - fuck super high Freeholds
exotic spoke
Lol no
brittle owl
it's retarded fun times
exotic spoke
Tyrannical freehold is the devil
brittle owl
only with eudora tbh
exotic spoke
No
warm plinth
I'm super excited for getting to the 20/21 tyr level of FH where I get to run out for every shot I don't have Blur up for 😄
sick sentinel
That's 60% of the keys then
exotic spoke
First boss is aids too
So 66% of the time it’s super aids and 33% it’s just regular aids
warm plinth
Yeah basically
brittle owl
ye just trying to derail the conversation in my favor
exotic spoke
Sooooo I don’t care about fort KR
strong forum
only DHs can skip Zul right
exotic spoke
I respect that you’re honest and owning that maelkenar
strong forum
or what exactly is the zul skip
exotic spoke
Yeah Nome. So I never have to deal with it until it’s fixed
The invisible wall doesn’t go all the way to the ceiling and they can get over it
exotic spoke
Just find yourself an hdh
broken isle
can anyone figure out how mobs are pulled through the wall in tol dagor?
Feel like it's my fault idk. Same with freehold and mobs under the floor
warm plinth
Wow toxic guys. I thought we were cool
strong forum
aoe abilities just hit them @broken isle
warm plinth
Part of dungeon mechanics 😏
tame garden
You can usually figure out by looking at the logs. Best practice is to pull stuff away from problem areas
warm plinth
Yeah it’s usually that one wall by the first cannon for us. So just try not to fight anything or shoot cannon by that wall. Tbh though sometimes you see the suppression fire but it never actually puts anyone in combat or anything
Other times it puts one person in combat and everyone else is fine, but the mobs never come
Very cool dungeon
tame garden
Yeah I just avoid tol at all costs now
Always finds a way to make me regret running it
broken isle
I feel like thunder clap just goes thru wallz
warm plinth
Magically it was our first 18 timed lol. Not sure how that happened.
tame garden
Tol is a prison made out of paper mache
warm plinth
Surprised Jes even needed to open the doors. I pull shit through the bars all the time lol
exotic spoke
@warm plinth you’re surprised I’m toxic some times?
warm plinth
No, never that
broken isle
U kno the pull very early in freehold where grp follows u behind the pillar on mounts?
strong forum
yes exactly @broken isle it does
warm plinth
Yeah
broken isle
I pulled mobs below us too
warm plinth
Don’t aoe near that ledge
Lolol
I had my Paladins shield bounce down there once
I was pissed
broken isle
I'll just never go near a wall ever again lol
exotic spoke
I thunder clapped through a wall once.....
warm plinth
Though tbh the wall issues aren’t near as bad as some of the ones in Legion lol
Always fun pulling all of opera through the floor
exotic spoke
True
tame garden
Its mostly just a couple problem areas to keep in mind
broken isle
Was just thinking that lol
broken isle
Thought it was starfall
warm plinth
Starfall was a big culprit too
But the fire mage lego helm was pretty bad for a while too
thorn fiber
Chain lightning Crit procs where it normally doesnt jump then leaps across 2/3 of the screen and all you can do is laugh in disbelieve
brittle owl
@broken isle if you stay close to the edge there, the jumpy backstabby poison bois also sometimes fall down
which makes you pull half the instance
broken isle
Ugh I'll just move them away from edge on FH
And stay away from walls in TD
I need to track down a prot warr twitch and copy their pulls too. Hoping to push higher next season
exotic spoke
Grab MDT
exotic spoke
Just copying someone else isn’t the right answer
sand egret
im pretty excited for next season ngl
brittle owl
the excitement is due in part to
sand egret
new affix looks great and if it does in fact reduce the need to shroud as much, i'm so for it
tame garden
Fuck rogues indeed
exotic spoke
I’m skeptical that this will remove the desire to have rogues
tame garden
It will be less punishing to not have one hopefully. But they will still be meta
exotic spoke
Because more shrouds is still more better
brittle owl
ye, outlul has an insane toolkit even outside shroud
sand egret
sure, but the difference between that and not-rogues is WAY less binary
if you can skip the typical skipped packs, or if optimal %'s change, then I don't necessarily see the need for shroud in many instances
exotic spoke
I mean - they aren’t necessary. They are really fucking good but for the keys the majority of people do they aren’t necessary in the slightest
sand egret
with the way the obelisks work, it could have the potential to make them entirely redundant
exotic spoke
It could. We just have to wait and see
brittle owl
nah it wont
sand egret
so, taking out that aspect of the kit, the relative "utility" difference between that and other dps specs is way more fair
brittle owl
between the eyes, pistol shot, kidney, blind singlehandedly enable certain pulls
exotic spoke
Cheat death is huge still.
The control they bring too.
brittle owl
yes
exotic spoke
Yeah, it’s huge for some dungeons and locking down casters
brittle owl
theres no other class with that many cc options
sand egret
dubious
exotic spoke
But even then, not necessary for the keys most people do. I include myself in this group
brittle owl
ya
broken isle
I feel every outlaw ability can stun lol
brittle owl
the sheer amount of usefulness cc brings can be super evident when you play vdh for instance
sigils can make certain pulls a joke
broken isle
Great survivability, extended range, it's a melee
tame garden
exotic spoke
I like my comp a lot with the utility we have and synergy
Prot warrior
Rdruid
Hdh
Rogue
Spriest
sand egret
Kitty Season 4 confirmed
brittle owl
a fire mage would be better tbh
tame garden
I would like to run that comp next season
brittle owl
in your comp
tame garden
Need to convince my mage to go rogue tho
broken isle
Spriest
exotic spoke
Than what the spriest?
brittle owl
ye
broken isle
Outta nowhere
exotic spoke
Spriests fucking pumps and has a shit ton of utility
tame garden
Spriest pumps
tame garden
Mass dispel and grip are pog
sand egret
mass dispel is quite useful
brittle owl
myeah true
sand egret
and VE is a very nice cooldown on hairy pulls
exotic spoke
You change your pull style based on your group. I tend to chain pull as much as possible to keep his dots going.
Also, between rogue, hdh, and prot we fucking burst aoe
tame garden
I think it's a reasonable alternative to fire, along with boomy
broken isle
Guess he's rerolling fire mage next patch lol
tame garden
And yeah spriest lends to a chain pull style, while fire mage takes some setup and plays around cds
I'd rather run a spriest comp personally
brittle owl
yep
broken isle
Spriest does pump tho ngl
tame garden
Just for ease of play
brittle owl
i prefer a spriest for a paladin tank tbh
exotic spoke
Fire mage is a little more one trick and spriest has options
broken isle
But u gotta chain pull like mad yea
exotic spoke
Both valid.
brittle owl
since the interrupt issue is nullified
exotic spoke
I do ziggy
exotic spoke
This week more bigger pulls and less chain pulls
broken isle
Multiple dungeons have grps with different hp pools
brittle owl
chainpulls are a nono on bolster
broken isle
So awkward
exotic spoke
Yup, you focus the big mobs down to get them equal
brittle owl
most dungeons you can cc those and pull even hp enemies together
broken isle
Shrine, TD come to mind
broken isle
Tru
exotic spoke
We uh, week 1 we had bolstering and we completely disrespected it
It was fine - we didn’t care
Until
We got to third boss in siege
Pull boss to pull the whole room
brittle owl
lel
broken isle
Ouch
brittle owl
i did that once
exotic spoke
End up with two commanders with like 10-12 stacks
brittle owl
had a big horsey boy
exotic spoke
One global later im running back
broken isle
We killed all the blobs in KR and made a mob so big he went thru the ceiling
exotic spoke
Yeah I had two of those maelkenar. Globalled with like 200k or so overkill
brittle owl
and made the templar basically gruul
broken isle
I swear their cone gets bigger as they grow lol
exotic spoke
Either way, tyrannical sucks
cyan oar
Hey ppl, on zaqul in a pug should i go into fear just so i can see the circle boi i need to drag him to?
signal plover
Easier just to let someone else go and put a mark down
rapid jewel
but not very hard to go up and down real quick to see the zone, if you have an eye for the timer
rapid jewel
in a pug? rather do it myself 🙂
coral marsh
how can you draw arrows and explanation on mythic dungeon tool maps?
warm plinth
There's a little arrow at the top middle that has a little menu pop up if you click on it
That has all the drawing/note tools in it
coral marsh
ah thanks
light lynx
Hey so my guild's just got to Zaq and I'm wondering if there was any way safeguard could be viable. I get the range from crackling is nice, but if i'm add tanking with a monk who can just drop statue to get adds into cleave whenever we stop would it not be better for both our damage intakes to be getting that 30% redirect?
chilly brook
Why
The damage still happens it just happens to you instead of that 30% going to the target
warm plinth
What do you mean by "both our damage intakes"?
light lynx
so I'm thinking if we have access to statue the range from crackling isn't really needed to get adds into cleave faster, and safeguard could potentially be helpful for reducing our intake
well because that'd have me taking 30% of his mostly melee intake which is blockable
light lynx
making it easier for him and I can block that wheras if it comes through tether it's shadow
warm plinth
I don't think you can block damage taken by Safeguard anyway can you?
chilly brook
And I'm pretty sure you can't block the redirected damage
warm plinth
It's just a straight damage transfer
rapid jewel
you should not use statue in boss range, since it fucks up necessary bossmovement
chilly brook
The damage intake for Zaqul isn't even bad
Like he shouldn't ever be in danger of dying
chilly brook
go die
light lynx
But if crackling isn't super necessary then I'm just thinking what could be more useful to run
rapid jewel
Crackling makes your job way more fun, safeguard is really not necessary in that fight to be honest
warm plinth
I mean I don't know the fight but if the damage is manageable and isn't affecting your progress, there's no real reason to worry about it. If it's a farm boss then you should go Crackling probably because you can make sure you hit all of the adds.
rapid jewel
since the magic zaqul nerf, the tankdamage is pretty low
chilly brook
You can literally solo tank Zaqul
light lynx
Is it? We haven't pulled him yet at all so I don't have much to reference for intake
chilly brook
And monk is busted for main tanking him as iirc stagger damage isn't transferred either
rapid jewel
yeah it is, solotanking doesn't make sense since you need damagestop anyway. Offtank there is a pretty boring job to be honest
light lynx
Fair enough, I guess it's just padszn then?
rapid jewel
flame is a viable choice there to collect ads btw if you struggle
chilly brook
When isn't it pad time as a prot warrior?
light lynx
Never, really, but some times more than others
Imagine having to take defensive essences
rapid jewel
make sure to use spellreflect for fears and have fun for plaing the most boring encounter in the raid
stoic pilot
Everyone hates za’qul but I think it’s such a fun fight lol
rapid jewel
as maintank, yes, ass offtank you sleep for 7 out of 8 minutes
exotic spoke
@lusty grotto hi
stoic pilot
Ah true
exotic spoke
Jameson at work is a great thing
warm plinth
chip*
exotic spoke
I need to work on my JPS
warm plinth
Jamesons per second?
exotic spoke
Yes sir
Well I guess technically Jameson per second but that’s a minor difference. Because you definitely don’t want multiple in a second
warm plinth
Bitch
exotic spoke
warm plinth
lol
exotic spoke
I’m still at work and I want to enjoy it not just get drunk
warm plinth
How you getting away with drinking at work lol
coral marsh
would you take major nulli for shrine and kr?
lusty grotto
same way i do, its allowed
exotic spoke
I’m because it’s allowed
blazing condor
did sporepods have any valuein pvp?
lusty grotto
lusty grotto
and no
exotic spoke
That would be a pvp question. I hear arms warriors like it but I don’t know
But ghash, basically the rule is, don’t get drunk and you’re fine
As long as it’s after 4
exotic spoke
My company does on special occasions. But if you want a drink on a random day just cause - that’s on you
Also, my supervisor, and his peers, are participating. So that helps smooth things along too
sand egret
Fun Story: I was required to be drunk for work once.
hushed cobalt
4/8m pug you say? Alliance perhaps? Inc 1/8m leader ask for CE they do. Wipe many times on sivarra they must.
rapid jewel
the 2 shield srat is common now on lady ashvane after nerf?
sick sentinel
yes
exotic spoke
@distant crystal oh is that so? Did you want to tank?
tame garden
It was common after the first nerf. I cant imagine 3 shielding is even a thing after the recent one
exotic spoke
@rapid jewel yes, it was relatively common prior to it too
rapid jewel
yeah we did with 2 shields in original state, to dumb to play that shit correctly
short nest
does anyone know how the myrmidon from orgozoa in p2 gets the buff called "Rage of Azshara" which increase his dmg by 200%?
rapid jewel
@short nest kill him faster
short nest
how long is the timer for it?
rapid jewel
one minute, but not sure. If you have logs, i can check for you
short nest
got it thx its 1 min