protection

[exotic spoke]

@crimson furnace probably the same ones o usually run. Vision, lucid, aegis

[stark scroll]

I'm not going mad am I? Demo shout used to be off GCD didn't it? (In Legion)

[chilly brook]

Yes it was off the gcd

Welcome to BFA where fun isn’t allowed

@exotic spoke catch me up on the corrupted gear plz

@random urchin did you not play the game for half a year when we were able to spell reflect a significant portion of the first boss of ToS’ health, until they nerfed the damage of the boss ability to compensate way after it had become widely known?

[warm plinth]

Yeah we've always been able to do stupidly high reflects and they haven't been "fixed"

Like in Legion we could reflect Dark Slash on Ymiron which was one of the biggest tank busters. We could also reflect Chaotic Energies in Cath while everyone was hiding in the shield and do a huge amount of damage to the boss.

[chilly brook]

So how does this corrupted gear work?

[sick sentinel]

@exotic spoke we do reflect-dh interrupt-my interrupt-reflect etc

so we have SR on cd AND DH interrupt on cd

[warm plinth]

That's what we do usually as well

[random urchin]

@chilly brook To answer your snarky comment. You’re right, I didn’t play then.

[chilly brook]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Your loss SR being powerful is just the way it is

[sand egret]

@chilly brook tldr is that instead of a TF proc increasing iLvl adn shit it is Corrupted. With this essentially produces 3 random rolls: 1) what positive effect you get 2) the tier of the corruption (tier 1-3, increasing the value of the positive effect and the range of corruption value) 3) and the actual numerical value of the corruption stat

so ideally, you want 1) the best effect with 2) the highest tier of value for said effect and finally 3) the lowest roll for Corruption

[chilly brook]

So more rng on top of the rng

Cool

[sand egret]

yep.

[chilly brook]

Fuck this game

[sand egret]

key note here is

we don't know, as of yet, what "cleansing" does

or the rate of this corruption

[chilly brook]

This is NOT what we wanted in place of TF

[sand egret]

or if there is any more to the system

i.e. a deterministic way to cater your RNG

[chilly brook]

Doubtful

[sand egret]

regardless, we simply don't know atm

but currently it does look like RNG on top of RNG

[exotic spoke]

@sick sentinel that’s basically what we do. I just meant in general

Sometimes I think they are memeing. I missed out on 2.5M damage on the third boss because they kept kicking when I called it out. Granted that’s only like 5-6 reflects but still

[sharp night]

i don't think you want the highest tier for corrupted gear

unless my math is wrong from the article

you want the lowest tier, but on as many pieces as possible

[sand egret]

depends on the stat

for crit damage, that would be true

[sharp night]

for any stat it's true

because you get half the bonus stat for 1/4 the corruption

so unless you have massive amounts of negation, t1 in many slots is better than t3 in fewer

[sand egret]

so let's take the avoidance stat

that scales 3/6/10%

one tier 3 roll with a 20 corruption is going to net you 1% more overall than 3x tier 1 with 5 corruption. you don't trigger the next tier of shit until your > 20

[sharp night]

that's the only one

outside of avoidance which nobody would really want unless there are suddenly way more aoes and you get no other avoidance on rolls

t1 is always better than t3

leech is the other "worst" case scenario and you get 2 instead of 6 for 5 corruption instead of 20

[chilly brook]

I mean avoidance isn’t bad tbh

There’s plenty of unavoidable aoe damage in raids

[sharp night]

but would you really want to waste slots on that when you could get increased healing or haste

[sand egret]

if you have all those options

this IS a RNG fiesta affter all...

[chilly brook]

Depends, tbh I don’t want to mess with any of the gear

[sharp night]

yeah

[chilly brook]

This shit sounds like aids

[sharp night]

it's just kinda dumb that say for haste

if you get 10 rolls of 5 corruption

you get 20% extra haste from all sources for 50 corruption

but if you get 3 rolls of the tier3 you get 18% for 60

for healing you'd get 20% healing for 50 corruption vs 18% for 60

[sand egret]

well, i think you have it twisted

[sharp night]

so t1 is basically always better than t3 except for the avoidance one

[sand egret]

tier 1 IS the better tier

in this case, smaller numbers are just better

its the Golf rules of itemization

[sharp night]

lol

[sand egret]

and tbh

[sharp night]

except i've been seeing on every class discord that people are saying they want t3 rolls because you get more of the "bonus stat"

which is wrong

because the ratio of stat:corruption is worse

[sand egret]

in many rpgs "Tier 1" is kinda the top tier

[exotic spoke]

Get an item - Y/N?
Get the right item - Y/N?
Get the right bonus - Y/N?
Get the right (low) amount of Corruptions - Y/N?

I don’t see how this is rng at all. Just four yes or no questions. Obviously you have a 6.25% chance based on my clearly correct and unexaggerated math

[sand egret]

:suspiciouschicken:

[sharp night]

and people asking if you get a t1 if you can "upgrade" to a higher tier lol

which they have it all backwards

[sand egret]

of course

we on golf rules now

BUT

[exotic spoke]

Vince, it is hypothesiZed that as time progresses you’ll be able to have a higher amount of corruption. Thus it would get to a point at some time where you want the higher tiers of reward / corruption

[sand egret]

it does mean if your luck sucks....getting a single tier 3 one won't be nearly as bad

[sharp night]

yeah like i said

[sand egret]

since you're getting a bunch of the bonus and for relatively the same corruption (as long as you're under the break point)

[sharp night]

if we get more negation later on

you want more t3 items

but at current state you want basically all t1

in every slot

with maybe one t3

also oof

https://www.wowhead.com/news=295810/corrupted-items-corruption-debuff-breakpoints-and-scaling-of-debuffs

[exotic spoke]

We don’t even know what the odds of getting those are.

With removal of TFing - depending on how math works out for individual classes - you may have one chance a week for shit that matters (mythic).

[sand egret]

i have a feeling it's going to beecome a rule that no one procs poo clouds

[chilly brook]

I thought on the article it said that it was just examples not actual breakpoints?

[sharp night]

they give the formula too

movement slow is corruption+10

so it scales

it's not tiers

the clouds only damage yourself, not teammates

so it only messes up your own positioning and nobody else's

[late tinsel]

It’s any info about the max ilvl in myth +? I read blizz go to cap the max ilvl in myth+ and only myth raiders have acces to max ilvl gear (I don’t remember the source of the info :-/)

[sharp night]

m+ already has a cap on ilvl

it's 15 ilvls below mythic

[sand egret]

sure, but do other people see your clouds?

[sharp night]

and they are removing titanforge so it will always be that way instead of possibly forging higher

[exotic spoke]

I mean if they remove Titan forging and, let’s use this tier as an example, m+ gives 430 - heroic level

And once a week 440 (mythic minus 5 level). What the fuck are they going to do

[sharp night]

i would guess blizz makes it like a lot of spells where only the player dropping them can see them

[sand egret]

cuz that's disruptive/if not worse than damage if it's covering actual shit you gotta look for

[exotic spoke]

M+ was designed with TF in mind and needs to be reworked

[sharp night]

i agree

[sand egret]

if it's 100% just in your view then it wont be as bad

[sharp night]

but this is blizz and they are lazy 😦

[late tinsel]

Maybe we get corrupted items in m+ too?

[exotic spoke]

This will seriously hurt m+ pushing for those not in. Mythic raids

[chilly brook]

Just give us a fucking currency we can use on gear in m+

[sharp night]

yeah

but even corrupted items in m+ will be worse than corrupted from mythic raid

[chilly brook]

It’s not hard

[sand egret]

yeah Riki, this rubs me the wrong way for that reason

[sharp night]

although still better than non-corrupted items

[chilly brook]

TF needed to die

[sand egret]

I liked how M+ and Mythic raids could at least eventually get you to the same place

[chilly brook]

Corrupted gear isn’t the right direction

[exotic spoke]

Like, fuck me. I’m pretty sure we’re going to have to stop mythic raiding next tier. And this may make me stop playing wow before I originally intended

[sand egret]

this is a bit of a step back

[sharp night]

lmao the tentacle that chases you at 40+ corruption

[exotic spoke]

Make it a fucking 18 for requirement for all I care - but give us a chance to get the same gear lvl through m+

[sharp night]

allegedly does your FULL HP in damage if it reaches you

[chilly brook]

@exotic spoke I’m going to be raiding but I’m not looking forward to any of this tbh

[sand egret]

if it's CC"able

[sharp night]

nice game blizz

[sand egret]

that's ezpz

[tame garden]

cancel voidforging

[exotic spoke]

I don’t mind the corruption - if they redesign m+ reward system

But I feel like they won’t

[sand egret]

add another tier for higher keys

ddooooo iiiiiit

[chilly brook]

They really need to give us a stupid currency system for gear

[sharp night]

they won't because mythic raiders will always cry about not getting the best gear

[sand egret]

^

[exotic spoke]

I mean. When more mythic raiders do 20s/21s they can have it.

They don’t need to be mutually exclusive

[chilly brook]

I’m a Mythic Raider I don’t give a damn I still have to do m+ every week for gear

[sand egret]

Well, on the bright-side...that Quaking change.....

[exotic spoke]

I’d argue that 20s/ 21s are harder than most mythic boss fights - usually earlier in a tier (which is where the majority of mythic gear comes from)

That quaking change is nice

[chilly brook]

Like honestly there’s no reason not to have it scale to Mythic raiding levels

I mean tbh the answer imo is really simple

[sand egret]

honestly, with a system like this new one, it actually mitigates the few problems slapping a mythic tier to higher keys woulda had

as long as that tier is a sufficient difficulty

[sharp night]

i wish it didn't interrupt still though

[exotic spoke]

Just set it to be 15-18 range and you’re good imo

[sand egret]

well at least as a tank you're not taking fuckign 25% of your hp

[sharp night]

or rather, it only interrupts if you're in range of someone else

[chilly brook]

Give a currency that is rewarded through m+ that allows you to have alternate advancement to allow you to either supplement your bad rng during Mythic raiding or offering you a deterministic advancement path as a m+ player

[sharp night]

yeah

[sand egret]

cuz that's a chunk of health i'd love to keep

[tame garden]

40% cuz melee love to dance on you

[sand egret]

also that

[sharp night]

that's the change i've been advocating for months now

quaking should do nothing if you're not in range of anyone else

and be punishing if you're stacked

[sand egret]

100% know my derponhunter will do that to me

[sharp night]

and they did half of the changes i asked for lol

[exotic spoke]

I was indifferent to Tf but I despise this change

[tame garden]

I'd rather keep tf

Than this garbage

[sand egret]

i'm holding out for the last 20% of this system to be implemented

[chilly brook]

I mean that was one of the best things in Wrath was the fact you could supplement your bad rng by doing dungeons

[sand egret]

cuz it looks like it's not complete

tbh

and that they put the more important testable elements out first

while still finishing up the system as a whole

debuffs, interactions, etc.

but something like a currency to mitigate rng isn't exactly something you need to grind on a PTR

from a dev pov that is

[exotic spoke]

We’ll see. Yeah it’s not complete. But, and I’m being more and more jaded now, blizz feels really out of touch with things.

[sand egret]

oh I feel ya, but yeah we'll see

on the flip side, new season affix looks cool

[chilly brook]

TBH I actually feel like they should possibly just get rid of drops almost entirely from both raiding and m+

[void berry]

Working on Azshara right now, I feel the war tanks who killed her are GODS.

We're painfully going through P1 + first transition. It feels horrible.

I hate this boss after 30 tries.

[chilly brook]

And by feel I mean I’d be interested in his removal of gear drops in favor of currency for item turn ins would feel

[exotic spoke]

Currency as a supplemental system is better imo.

[chilly brook]

Probably

I’m just curious how it would feel as the main system

[sand egret]

in the moment, prob not as good

getting a good drop does feel great

[exotic spoke]

“Oh hey I killed a boss and got 10 coins. Only 90 more until I get an item”

Vs

“Hey I killed a boss and got something and x coins - only y more coins until I get something”

[sand egret]

getting a bunch of currency, while ultimately may be equal, doesn't have the same impact

[chilly brook]

Sure until you’re told not to equip it because your guild needs to loot council it

[sand egret]

well that's another issue

[chilly brook]

Forced personal loot is great

/s

[exotic spoke]

I mean - that’s a you problem

You knew what your guilds loot rules where when you signed up for it. If you didn’t agree to it you shouldn’t have signed up for it

I have no pity for people who complain about that

[chilly brook]

I agree doesn’t make it feel any less shitty when you get a nice tf on a ring that’s in your bag and you know you’re not going to be able to keep it

[exotic spoke]

Except - you have an option. Join a different guild.

[chilly brook]

Unlike when before you just saw it on the boss and were like “cool lemme roll on it”

[sand egret]

equip it and bounce, classic style

[chilly brook]

Riki it doesn’t change the fact that forced personal loot is ass

[exotic spoke]

We went from ML to just PL and roll

“If you have an item you don’t want send it to Riki”

“Roll on XYZ”

[sand egret]

it going into your bags vs not is a bit...semantical

[exotic spoke]

I agree - but you can find a guild that does it differently.

[chilly brook]

Here’s another example, I got a font. I’m never going to use it but couldn’t give it away because I didn’t already have one

[exotic spoke]

You’re addressing a symptom under your control is my point

I mean yeah that’s shitty and a better complaint imo because you have zero control over it

[sand egret]

but that's also a different issue

that's how the system determines elligibility

[exotic spoke]

Agree

[chilly brook]

@sand egret it’s not semantical though because it being in your bag and you looting it definitely has an impact on how you feel about having to loot council it. Overall I’m okay with it, but it also feels shitty because technically it was your drop

[sand egret]

uh

do go into a meta convo on the semantics of the word semantical..... 🤔

[chilly brook]

If you do Mythic Ashvane and you get a 450 with socket coral off her, don’t tell me you wouldn’t feel shitty if you had to trade that

[warm plinth]

Ez, just don't get a 450 trinket before then

😄

[sand egret]

big brain play

[warm plinth]

Yep

[chilly brook]

If ML was still a thing and it dropped you’d probably be excited but the disappointment of losing something that wasn’t in your bag to begin with wouldn’t be nearly as big tbh

[sullen valve]

Daily reminder -> WowA is Good for prot warrior. Use it or i cri

[warm plinth]

Yeah I agree with that Griff

[chilly brook]

Who needs analyzer just push your buttons 4head 🙃

[warm plinth]

WOWA FO LYFE

[chilly brook]

I remember in Uldir one of our shamans got a higher than Mythic TF on a shield in heroic before they put the TF restriction on them and I was kinda pissed since I was main tanking as a warrior

He was enh btw

[strong forum]

Enha was lit

We flamed the living fuck out of our shaman when he wanted to play ele cuz it was dog

Now we flame the living fuck out of him when he wants to play enha

Good times

[sand egret]

❤ enh

stay strong ✊

i'd say more, but i also really like ele so it's w/e

unlike boomy vs feral

booo chickens

yaaaay kitties

[chilly brook]

So with TF out are sockets still rng?

[exotic spoke]

They said no socket rng from a video I saw

Not sure how sockets are going to work

[strong forum]

Bring back guaranteed sockets

3x on chest

[chilly brook]

Fax

[strong forum]

2x on shoulder

3x on weapon

Bring back tbc->cata socket system

[chilly brook]

Get rid of secondary stats period

Just have gems

And gem them

Yay crafting is relevant!

Jk

Probably a really bad idea, but you know what’s not a bad idea?

Reforging

[strong forum]

Reforging was too strong

Tbh

It was good, but too strong

[sand egret]

Let me

/flex

[strong forum]

Having good stats on every piece

Is kinda oomph

[daring marlin]

nah fuck that

Reforging would make this game significantly better

[exotic spoke]

Reforming was annoying to get an item and not be able to using it off the bat because you had to reforge it

[sand egret]

only if reforging had a 1% chance to totally destroy the item

[strong forum]

Uuuh.

So nobody would reforge

[daring marlin]

@exotic spoke wat

[sand egret]

only the weak wouldn't

[strong forum]

Yeah....

[sand egret]

no balls

[strong forum]

Imagine getting bis

Only to have it destroyed

Big fun

[exotic spoke]

@daring marlin getting an item in raid and having it not be an upgrade until you went back to the main city and reforged it was annoying

[sand egret]

get better at RNG

[strong forum]

I remember having to reforge back and forth to hit expertise cap and not over cap

[daring marlin]

1.) yak

wasn’t an issue

[strong forum]

So you swapped like 3 times back and forth

To min max

[daring marlin]

2.) that happens now still

[exotic spoke]

Because you can just yak after every single boss fight ever

[daring marlin]

Instead of having to reforge I GOTTA SIM THIS FIRST

[sand egret]

but simming isnt' an official blizzard system

🙂

[exotic spoke]

and I already know if it’s an upgrade when I get it lol ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[strong forum]

Bro fuck simming, honestly

[sand egret]

agreed

[daring marlin]

Prot doesn’t have the mentality dps does

[sand egret]

but its the world we live in

[exotic spoke]

Oh I do. I’m a dps that wears a shield

[sand egret]

aren't all tanks?

[exotic spoke]

But I’ve already figured out what I need before time

[sand egret]

well no, i dont have a shield

i have a furry face

[exotic spoke]

Because I come prepared

[strong forum]

Bear dps ohnono

[daring marlin]

furrysong

[sand egret]

we big pump

[daring marlin]

Agree to disagree I guess. IMO reforging would be great. The main issue with reforging was hit/exp. Good thing that shit is gone.

[strong forum]

Bruh multistrike

[exotic spoke]

ArP

[strong forum]

And I forgot if versa was different back then

I think it was

[sand egret]

Multistrike died for Versatility

F

[daring marlin]

?

[warm plinth]

Versatility existed in WoD.

Spirit died for versatility if anything

[daring marlin]

Why are we bringing up arp or multistrike?

[warm plinth]

Idk someone said reforging and off we go

[daring marlin]

Reforging was removed before those were added

multi anyway

not arp

[sand egret]

Vers and Multi went to bid, and Multi laid down its life for Vers to live on

RIP

i'll always remember you, sweet sweet child

[strong forum]

Breh mop and wod are a big mush for me

Cuz I played pvp exclusively

And did huge breaks in those xpacs

[daring marlin]

mogu’shan vaults best raid

tot too

[strong forum]

I heard mop was amazing pve

[warm plinth]

Yeah reforging was removed and multistrike added at WoD launch

[strong forum]

Never did any of pve from cata to legion

[daring marlin]

pvp boi

[undone sun]

I mean, compared to bfa

[daring marlin]

missed out

[undone sun]

Most expacs had great pve

[warm plinth]

I don't think BfA has bad PvE personally

[strong forum]

Back when pvp was good.

[daring marlin]

spirit kings 👏🏼

[strong forum]

EP is literal dogshit

What do you mean

Uldir was best raid this xpac

[warm plinth]

I mean, every expansion has shitty raids

[strong forum]

Lowkey

[exotic spoke]

@daring marlin wasn’t reforging in WotLK?

[strong forum]

Bod was decent with fun endboss

No wrath didn't have reforging

[warm plinth]

Just because one raid is bad doesn't mean the expansion in general has bad PvE

[undone sun]

Though I do believe content isn't the deciding factor, if class design is sub par doing any amount of content would be bad

[exotic spoke]

When did reforming get added

[strong forum]

Mop

[warm plinth]

Look at Legion; we had fucking Emerald Nightmare which was the biggest joke of a raid ever

[strong forum]

And was only in mop

Legion I only did m+

And pvp

[exotic spoke]

Fair . 15 years really blends together

[strong forum]

Ye

I'm only at 13 years

[exotic spoke]

I just remember only going for arp in WotLK

Was fucking Op as shit

[strong forum]

Ye sockets

Full arp

[daring marlin]

cata was arp too a lot of the time

for arms anyway

[strong forum]

Cata was peak pvp

Lowkey

[daring marlin]

mop pvp was gr8 as well

[strong forum]

It was ye

[daring marlin]

like you said

[strong forum]

But cata was slightly better

Man I miss good pvp

[exotic spoke]

I did prot in Cata for m+

[strong forum]

Not this rock paper scissors bullshit we have right now

[exotic spoke]

Didn’t like mop pvp that much.

[strong forum]

Why play warri when dh has all of what you have but more dmg and mana burn

[exotic spoke]

Could have been from burnout though tbf

[strong forum]

Why play warri when dk solo everything

Fucking shit

[exotic spoke]

Pvp has always been somewhat Rock Paper Scissors though

[warm plinth]

Every spec has a counter

[exotic spoke]

Sometimes more than others

[strong forum]

You could still outskill

[exotic spoke]

Ehhhhh

[strong forum]

In cata you could win as every comp vs every comp

Right now you just lose by default vs some setups

[warm plinth]

I mean you could always do that

[exotic spoke]

Yeah sure - but in rated pvp if I played against spriest rogue as war Druid it was almost always GG - take the L and move on

[oblique garnet]

In the end of cata pvp was anything but balanced xd

[exotic spoke]

Fucking Doomkins

[warm plinth]

I mean right now you have things like spell cleave which is just actual bullshit

Which is not a new comp obviously but still

[exotic spoke]

Thegodofdmg crushing souls in RBGs

[strong forum]

Im only talking arena ofc, not some wannabe bg bullshit

[warm plinth]

Frustrating as actual fuck

[oblique garnet]

Yes and im saying arena wasnt balanced at end of cata

[exotic spoke]

You had counter comps in fucking arenas from tbc onwards

[warm plinth]

Yeah for sure

[strong forum]

Ye it wasn't

[warm plinth]

But there was always like top tier comps

[strong forum]

Get a rogue with daggers, insta lose

[oblique garnet]

It was fun playing broken specs

[warm plinth]

I mean, RMP has been dominant in multiple expansions

[oblique garnet]

Playing against them wasnt

[strong forum]

Get a dk with gurthalak he instas everything

[exotic spoke]

Stun herald

[strong forum]

Procs like 12 tentacles on opener

Just 1shot

[outer dew]

You know what's not balanced? My emotions whenever I see @warm plinth 😍

[exotic spoke]

Get a room!

[warm plinth]

❤

[exotic spoke]

(And let me watch)

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/sVzE.gif

[exotic spoke]

Lol

[warm plinth]

I had to break someone's heart yesterday

Not Tofu though, don't worry

[exotic spoke]

Awwww who and why?

[warm plinth]

They were very excited because they only had to get 3 more timed +10s to get rank 4 of their major

[outer dew]

What'd you do to the poor person?

[warm plinth]

Their words

[exotic spoke]

Oof

[outer dew]

D'aww

[warm plinth]

I had to tell them

😦

[outer dew]

Oh

Because that's +15

Right?

[warm plinth]

Yeah

[exotic spoke]

Yup

[outer dew]

Dang, you did them dirty ):

[warm plinth]

And I don't even think they've tried a +14 either, much less timed a 15

[outer dew]

They could of lived their life in ignorant bliss

[warm plinth]

Well if it were me I'd rather know now

Than get my last 3 +10s and then realize I was wrong

[outer dew]

Yea. But if they celebrating

Over 10's

You've cooked them to a life of dark terrible horrors

Despair at every corner

[distant crystal]

i got my 15 chievo and my 10 chievo in the same run

1800ish io with only a 9 siege in time oof

[sand egret]

haha Ghash I did that to my derp group i carry. they were all excited about it for +10s.....

it was a sad, sad day

but then i showed them they could actually do 15s so it worked out

[reef geode]

Is there a more accurate timer for Arcane Jolt on M Azshara? Or just approximate spell queuing? Trying to find a way to 100% consistently reflect Jolt instead of catching a Missile tick.

BW is within ~1-1.5s generally

[warm plinth]

Nice Blade lol

[sand egret]

it was a rollercoaster of emotion haha

they were all sooo excited...then I had to break the news.....

but then i dragged em to a 15 and we timed it and a beam of hope came down

[warm plinth]

The good Blade giveth and the good Blade taketh away, except backwards

[jolly thistle]

there's a cache you can buy on ptr that gives a random corrupted item from normal mode. right now its only 445 and it looks like weapons cant get a corrupted effect (same as they cant titanforge atm)

so there's no ilvl increase at all. only corrupted

[raven gorge]

I got one corrupted 1h axe out of the 10 or so that I got. Really annoying to be only able to buy one at a time.

[exotic spoke]

Anexor I thought I saw a pic of that

[jolly thistle]

yeah i had to buy ~30 items to get one corrupted weapon

[dusky mica]

/run BuyMerchantItem(index, quantity)

[cedar flax]

Any tanks out there have any experience running Vision of Demise as their DPS trinket in M+? I haven't had much luck this tier with a good DPS trinket so I was thinking about giving this one a go.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=169307/vision-of-demise&bonus=4798:1487

[near ivy]

just use block / rezan 🤷

[cedar flax]

I have been farming Rezan for a while now but the RNG gods have not been kind. My current one is getting long in the tooth (it is only a 400 ilvl)

[distant crystal]

i mean vision probably isn't awful

just use it with avatar

but it ain't great

[cedar flax]

Eh... that seems fair. Figured it was worth asking. Thanks!

[grave marsh]

whats block staratar?

butcherblock?

[distant crystal]

wcm trinket

ye

[cedar flax]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=159616/gore-crusted-butchers-block&bonus=4777:1512

[grave marsh]

we just want the same trinks as fury then?

if so, that's pretty convenient

[distant crystal]

i mean edict and urchin are pretty great too

but yeah you can use fury trinkets for prot dmg

[cedar flax]

@grave marsh - You probably want to swap out one of your trinkets for some kind of defensive trinket and keep the DPS trinket for the other during progression. As your survivability improves, the defensive trinket tends to take a back seat.

As @distant crystal mentioned... edict and urchin are solid options

[grave marsh]

I've just been running around with a computer with the massive haste buff and a 405 butchers block

wanting to get an urchin though

[cedar flax]

I rolled the computer for a while and it served me well. Ultimately, Razen's eye is the big one to go after.

[grave marsh]

also got a 400 diamond refracting prism

dunno if that's worth holding onto or not

[cedar flax]

Early in the tier, the refracting prism performs well, especially if you have a socket kicker. I replaced mine with urchin in the mid tier.

[hushed pier]

Hey guys, may I have some advices for 15+ tyrannical ML, specially for the third boss magic dmg

[distant crystal]

reflect every other chemical burn

ignore pain often

reflect on cd for last boss

[warm plinth]

Chemical Burn is always on the 2 closest targets to the boss. If you don't have reflect up, healer dispels you and a DPS eats the other one with a cooldown/immunity. If you have a warlock, they can run imp pet and they can dispel one while healer dispels the other

[inland bolt]

I see alot of brewmasters running single and even double undulating in M+

does undulating have the same positive effect on prot war?

instead of stacking DC, i'd replace one with undulating

[warm plinth]

Kinda surprised they're running it tbh

[sick sentinel]

it isnt bad it saved my ass alot

better then you would expect but if it procs because you just made a mistake it feels really bad

[warm plinth]

Oh I guess they're probably using it for the defensive absorb

Forgot about that part

[sick sentinel]

it also deals good damage on ST i only use one

but not that insane around %5 to %8

depending on procs

[warm plinth]

Yeah for us I think it'd be better as an offensive trait than defensive, since we don't tend to drop low often

[inland bolt]

how does it compare to DC on aoe?

[sick sentinel]

on aoe its bad

it just procs on one target

[inland bolt]

cause it doesnt make sense to stack DC if I can do more damage with undulating

[sick sentinel]

on ST its better for sure

[undone sun]

you don't stack DC regardless

[sick sentinel]

take 1xDC 3xBastio and 2x some stat proc

like MS

its really good

i use 1x MS and 1x tides

doing good

[warm plinth]

Yeah Undulating gains nothing on AoE because afaik it can only proc on your actual target (e.g. doesn't proc from Thunder Clap/Revenge)

Sim info on bloodmallet seems to back that up

[sick sentinel]

yes no aoe proc

just the one you main target

[warm plinth]

5-8% extra ST damage is pretty insane from 1 trait though

[sick sentinel]

i started using it lately

and in KR first boss and second did around %5

[warm plinth]

And that's with 1 trait?

[sick sentinel]

but in really short fight did like %8

yes

[warm plinth]

Yeah 5% damage seems really strong for 1 trait lol

[sick sentinel]

but the fights are with lust and was around 2min

[warm plinth]

And ofc you would have to make sure you didn't fuck up and proc the defensive

[sick sentinel]

well tides is actualy really strong offensively only reason people didnt use it is because when it procs you are fucked

[warm plinth]

Yeah

[sick sentinel]

and on those fights i didnt proc at all

so if you fuck up cds your block or get hit some stupid damage then its kinda dead trait

[warm plinth]

It's the top simming ST trait for prot, but yeah if you force the defensive proc it's no bueno

[inland bolt]

i mean would I drop it for MS?

[sick sentinel]

but also not bad absorb saved my ass couple times

MS i wouldnt at least take one its uptime is really good

[inland bolt]

cause I can wear the MS shoulders or Undulating shoulders from queens(comes with a gemhide)

[warm plinth]

I would take MS yeah

MS is super strong

And is more consistent

[sick sentinel]

i would try 2x tides but MS is really good to play with

[warm plinth]

Gemhide is pretty meh imo

[sick sentinel]

if you have the kraken chest

which i have

then you can use court shoulders

[inland bolt]

kraken chest?

[sick sentinel]

yes

it has bastion and MS

and unstable flames

its really good

wait it wasnt named 'kraken'

ashvane warden chest

[orchid token]

you can get a sense of more realistic undululating damage if you sim it with raidbots and adjust the effectiveness%

for example if you think you'll have the debuff for 50% of the time you can set it to 50% and it'll cut undulating's sim damage in half for your results

in my experience you need to be all the way down at 30-40% effectiveness (which is rare) to really see it fall off in usefulness

[loud burrow]

i have a 430 edict, 450 urchin and got a 440 rezans from the weekly, should i play rezans+urchin? or replace one of them with edict for raids?

[brittle owl]

honestly

defensive trinkets in raids are nigh useless

magic edicts could be good for QC

but you'd have to game it p heavily, and that's not easy with all the rando damage effects that are on the entire raid

in m+ it's up to you and your healer

will those defensive trinkets enable him to dps more? if so, will his dps gain offset your dps loss to result in a groupwide gain? then yeah, go for it. if not, should just stick with offensive options

if those are your only options you should 1. use whatever really, 2. get a cyclo blast from mechagon for raid purposes

[loud burrow]

okay, i guess i only need ~500rep to reach revered there ... thx for the advice

[hallow phoenix]

Tryna convince the RL to let me be add tank on orgo

Hate being on boss

[ionic fern]

It's boring jeah

[hallow phoenix]

I'm also doubling our add tanks damage, as the boss boi

[ionic fern]

What tanks you running?

[hallow phoenix]

Pally and me on boss, brm on adds

[ionic fern]

Wait

What

Pally on adds and you/brm on boss.

Should be your go-to

[hallow phoenix]

RL likes statue or something for adds

[ionic fern]

If you're progressing just keep it as it is if there are no tank death problems.

[hallow phoenix]

Even though it's not that big of a deal now that we've figured it out a bit

[ionic fern]

If you go on adds the death timers are gonna be different by a margain.

[hallow phoenix]

Pally dies often enough that I'd say it's problematic

[ionic fern]

Must be shit.

[hallow phoenix]

Not running the right talent setup imo

[brittle owl]

why would you have paladin on boss and brm on adds o.o

that's beyond scuffed

[ionic fern]

🤷
Was my first question.

[hallow phoenix]

I just raid here

Not a shotcall boi

[ionic fern]

Tho Paladin should be fine surviving the boss .

But in general it's just dumb by your RL.

[brittle owl]

ye he shouldn't have real issues

[hallow phoenix]

Regardless, I think our add times are actually a bit slow

[brittle owl]

just narrower margin of error

[ionic fern]

If your paladin is dying to boss tell your RL your swapping the BRM to boss

[hallow phoenix]

Plenty of waves spawning while the previous wave is around 10%

[ionic fern]

You can still keep the statue down.

😒

So the adds get threat on that

🤷

[brittle owl]

that's normal tusks

[hallow phoenix]

Oh

[brittle owl]

that's why you need 3 tanks

add waves spawn faster than it takes to kill the previous one

[hallow phoenix]

I thought it was ideal to kill them before next wave

[brittle owl]

+dps check in p1 on the boss

[ionic fern]

Nah

No point

[brittle owl]

narp

[ionic fern]

Tunnel into boss.

[brittle owl]

yep

[ionic fern]

Fuck adds.

[brittle owl]

thats why you lust at start

you want to push the boss before the 8th arcing current

[ionic fern]

7th.

😒

[hallow phoenix]

We're meeting that check

[brittle owl]

or that

[ionic fern]

Who goes 8th, wtf.

[hallow phoenix]

So long as people don't die

[ionic fern]

😂

[brittle owl]

iunno i forgot

[ionic fern]

Tell your RL:
BRM is on boss but he'll put statue down in the middle.
Paladin on adds.
Everyone wins.

Have fun.

[brittle owl]

^

[hallow phoenix]

I can suggest it

[ionic fern]

No, don't suggest it.
Tell him that's how it is.

[brittle owl]

you can still cleave the adds while the brew is on the boss

yep

[ionic fern]

Why is he gimping the raid on purpose

Wtf.

😂

Just cause he doesn't know how the classes/fights works and figure out what's the best for your composition doesn't mean 19 other people need to suffer.

[hallow phoenix]

I've been mongo cleaving

[brittle owl]

brm just needs isb up and he wont die

whereas paladin needs to use entire kit to not die

you don't need to be particularily knowledgeable

[ionic fern]

On re-kills start talking about you being on adds for that parse.

[brittle owl]

if you're a RL and don't know this surface level class knowledge 👀

[hallow phoenix]

One thing that worries me is threat if pally is on adds. Im already ripping add threat off monk when I'm cleaving. Never a big deal since he can just statue taunt though

[brittle owl]

lel dw about paladin threat

[strong forum]

Imagine parsing on orgo

Can't imagine

[ionic fern]

Always parse.

[brittle owl]

it's goldilocks region for paladin damage

[strong forum]

But thank God I'll never have to see EP ever again

[brittle owl]

4 targets paladin should do more or at least equal damage to you

[hallow phoenix]

I worry mael

[ionic fern]

^

[brittle owl]

inp2 you ignore adds anyway

[strong forum]

How can one parse on orgo if you're not add tank

You can't 🙃

[hallow phoenix]

He's doing about 18k with a 70-30 boss to adds damage split

[brittle owl]

and hell be able to solo interrupt the witch

[ionic fern]

Logs?

I wanna see that.

[strong forum]

18k is very low

[brittle owl]

yeah

gif logs

[ionic fern]

Inbound "Private logging".

😄

[strong forum]

I'm doing 22k on boss alone

[brittle owl]

same

[hallow phoenix]

I think they're public let me look

[brittle owl]

but i boss tank 👀

[strong forum]

Same

[brittle owl]

on paladin 😂

cuz bdk third tank

[strong forum]

I don't have tanks or healers anymore

Fucking blessed

I've never felt so free

[ionic fern]

?

[hallow phoenix]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R3kdbWPqcLatQHDv/

[brittle owl]

ok so

right off the bat

paladin should've been running BH and seraphim

[hallow phoenix]

Side note, some of our add timings were really weird and I ended up soaking without any stacks

[ionic fern]

😂

[hallow phoenix]

A few times

[brittle owl]

rp is useless

[ionic fern]

He can't run Seraphim..he's getting gimped regardless, rofl

[brittle owl]

holy shield is unreliable for orgo

[ionic fern]

Imagine using SOTR on Seraphim while getting one shot on boss already cause poor SOTR management.

[hallow phoenix]

I know

[brittle owl]

seraphim is the defensive choice

what sotr management

[hallow phoenix]

I mentioned hammers after raid

[brittle owl]

you have a full minute between boss swaps

if you wanna turtle start boss with sera+undying

sotr+ad after the first hit

into external

should be at 5 stacks after external runs out and then sotr is more than enough

at 7 stacks you can eat melees with nothing but standing in cons

hammers also give perma 12% dr

[hallow phoenix]

I'll still recommend tomorrow that we try having pally on adds

Hammers is huge

[brittle owl]

that is best yes

[ionic fern]

What do you mean "what SOTR managemente".

Have you checked his usage?

[hallow phoenix]

I didn't know he wasn't using them until after raid

[ionic fern]

Should be pretty clear he can't manage it properly.

Balls to the walls

[brittle owl]

looool

ye i closed log when i saw HS+RP 😂

[ionic fern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R3kdbWPqcLatQHDv/#fight=19&type=damage-taken&source=30&pins=0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%24-1%240.0.0.Any%24152128.0.0.Boss%24true%24180688384.0.0.Paladin%24true%24298156&ability=1&target=106&view=events&sourcebuffs=-132403

Hits without SOTR + Sting stacks.

Wtf is this

.:')

Anyways, talk to your RL.

[hallow phoenix]

Which wipe was that

[ionic fern]

6

[hallow phoenix]

The pally is the RL btw

[ionic fern]

Tell him to stop being shit then.

Well, not word by word.

[brittle owl]

👀

[ionic fern]

But try to explain to him that it's more beneficial for him to be on adds and BRM on boss.

[brittle owl]

ye your RL is kinda clueless

[stoic pilot]

Yeah we still have our dps swap to brew and have our main tank (pally) do adds for when we reclear

[hallow phoenix]

He's usually ret

[brittle owl]

pally and DK are the worst boss tanks

[stoic pilot]

Okay so why put him on boss as offspec o.O

[hallow phoenix]

Mains tank in m+ tho so idk

[stoic pilot]

Yikes I feel bad for his group

[brittle owl]

👀

i bet he does 15 keys tops

[hallow phoenix]

I think he is just really attached to statue on adds

[ionic fern]

YOU CAN STILL HAVE STATUE ON ADDS.

[hallow phoenix]

Nah like 19s

[ionic fern]

For the passive threat.

[hallow phoenix]

Yeah I'll mention that

[ionic fern]

[stoic pilot]

It helps get them into place too without smacking anybody on the way down

Even if monk isn’t primarily tanking lol

the adds* that is

[hallow phoenix]

And he'll just take threat when they get to him yeah?

[ionic fern]

Judgment->AS->Taunt the further one

😒

[stoic pilot]

Yeah but let’s be real

[ionic fern]

THe statue won't overaggro a active tank passively.

[hallow phoenix]

I still worry about me ripping threat when I come l cleave

[strong forum]

Tell him he's shitv

If he can't handle it

[stoic pilot]

Well

[strong forum]

Good riddance

[stoic pilot]

The times you go out will be to soak

So it’s okay if you rip

[strong forum]

That's how my guild works

[ionic fern]

Ripping threat isn't the end of the world.

[sharp rover]

How strong are sporepods defensively?

[ionic fern]

Horrible.

[hallow phoenix]

About 0

[stoic pilot]

Good for arms arena but for everything else it’s trash

[ionic fern]

[hallow phoenix]

Arms prefers urchin I think

[stoic pilot]

Sporepods / defrag mecha trinket / urchin all very strong choices for arms arena

I went this entire tier without getting an urchin, I’m sad

[ionic fern]

Who needs Urchin if you can get Inkpod/Razor.

[hallow phoenix]

Remember this guy?

[sharp rover]

So my 430 sporepod is actually just an expulsom?

That's unfortunate

[stoic pilot]

Yep

[ionic fern]

What

The fuck

[stoic pilot]

Farm waycrest manor / atal Dazar

Get a forged butchers block and rezan and you’ll be set

[hallow phoenix]

Inkpod is dispelable

[sharp rover]

Is vial of animated blood better than sporepods defensively?

[hallow phoenix]

Yes

[brittle owl]

anything is better that sporepods defensively

whatever 'good defensively' means when talking about trinkets

[hallow phoenix]

Good defensively obviously means "helps kill faster" so you take less overall damage

[brittle owl]

yes

[hallow phoenix]

Could you guys take a look at the monk too?

I know nothing about monks and can't read their logs

Guess I could visit the monk discord

[ionic fern]

I THINK they are supported for WoWAnalyzer? 🤔 Can get a brief look from there

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/R3kdbWPqcLatQHDv/19-Mythic+Orgozoa+-+Wipe+6+(4:35)/Tishon

Atleast spell usage.

Kegs 27/45.

[brittle owl]

all tanks are supported on wowa atm

guardian doesnt have the checklist doe

ye your monk is p trash to

imagine not having 100% isb uptime

he could actually die on boss lmao

[hallow phoenix]

He's died on adds

[brittle owl]

👀

[hallow phoenix]

And ashvane once or twice

[brittle owl]

👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀

[hallow phoenix]

I don't know either

[oblique garnet]

How do you die on monk?🤔

[hallow phoenix]

But they're my guildies so I gotta help where I can

[brittle owl]

well

first thing would be

to tell them to go on class discs

they're obv clueless

both of them

they lack basic understanding of class mechanics and toolkit

[sick sentinel]

@oblique garnet our monk almost dies sometimes

Because he purifies 3 times in a row

And then he has no isb

[oblique garnet]

Only way you can die on a monk in somewhere like azshara is when you have 50+ stacks of arcane vulnerability and the boss has 50% damage increase

Then you will just die oneshot nothing you can do about it

[brittle owl]

just dodge the jolly

kappa

[hallow phoenix]

Jolly

[brittle owl]

there, happy

[sick sentinel]

Jolly

[oblique garnet]

Ah yes just dodge the jolt when instead of using jolt first the boss melees you 😃

[brittle owl]

you don't care about the melee though

it's the jolt that slaps

[oblique garnet]

It resets your elusive brawler

Thats the point

[brittle owl]

o

ye tru

[sick sentinel]

Just dodge both?

[brittle owl]

[hallow phoenix]

Our monk also has a bear

Not sure if bear is any good on orgo

[brittle owl]

bear is easier to fuck up than monk

bear is fine for both roles

[hallow phoenix]

True

[outer dew]

Bear big brain

[sick sentinel]

Stampeding roar

[brittle owl]

they pump dmg on aoe

[outer dew]

Wtf

Kaege

What is that pfp

[brittle owl]

also roar is sooo good on transition

[outer dew]

I dont know you anymore

[brittle owl]

a retarded cat obviously

[outer dew]

I'm outie

[sick sentinel]

@outer dew inside joke

[outer dew]

Sure sure

[hallow phoenix]

We have a wind rush

[outer dew]

But you wouldn't uwu matching pfp

[brittle owl]

yes but imagine

[outer dew]

With me

[brittle owl]

wind rush into stampeding

[outer dew]

Ill remember this

[hallow phoenix]

Hmm

[smoky shoal]

33/92 BoS cast

[hallow phoenix]

I'm imagining

[brittle owl]

then

[hallow phoenix]

Black out strike?

[brittle owl]

imagine a warlock gateway too

at the end

[smoky shoal]

It's on a 3sec CD, just press it every 3 gcd

[hallow phoenix]

So basically monk isn't pressing buttons enough?

[brittle owl]

also not keeping isb up

[hallow phoenix]

And pally isn't using sotr right

[brittle owl]

for some reason👀

pally is also mismanaging his AM

[hallow phoenix]

Big help

[brittle owl]

both are p much bad

terrifyingly bad

[smoky shoal]

Shitty brew generation, ISB is not up 100% of time, not pressing buttons

[hallow phoenix]

As far as my other cotanks in the past have been, they're not bad

[brittle owl]

yikes

[hallow phoenix]

I'm unlucky lol

[smoky shoal]

wtb good co-tank, I keep snapping threat because I've 10-15k more dps than my co-tank

[hallow phoenix]

Mallwen we can tank together

[brittle owl]

i'm lucky i don't have that issue in my current guild

[hallow phoenix]

I'll never let you rip off me bb

[brittle owl]

my cotanks are great

1 more so than the other, but it's still good

[hallow phoenix]

I'm always with cotanks that feel just staying alive is doing a good job :(

Literally since wrath

[brittle owl]

i mean

it's the job

[hallow phoenix]

Not the only one tho

[brittle owl]

but a job can be done poorly or good

[hallow phoenix]

I ran that azerite catalyst trait today in m+

[smoky shoal]

While he's doing 13k

My co-tank is a BDK, he isn't helped for dpsing I know, but I'm doing 28k on average

[hallow phoenix]

Was gonna run it on orgo for adds but I got boss so didn't get to use

[brittle owl]

13k dps as a tank

[hallow phoenix]

It's not as bad as I thought

[brittle owl]

is literally playing in uldir

it is

[smoky shoal]

He sims 20k dps

[brittle owl]

that's 8.0 levels of tank damage

[hallow phoenix]

13k is major problems

[smoky shoal]

I'm pretty close of the dps I'm simming, his dps is awful and I hate when he keep saying "stop snapping threat", bro just dps

[hallow phoenix]

Like 1 button rotation only problems

[brittle owl]

'snapping threat'

arent you playing brew?

or woyer

[smoky shoal]

Brew

[brittle owl]

brew snap threat kekw

[smoky shoal]

Imagine losing threat to a drunk tank

[brittle owl]

lit no dps cd

0 burst, only sustain

[smoky shoal]

And still snap threat

On ashvane I snapped 3 times

And Radiance is a fest

[hallow phoenix]

He's a bdk?

[smoky shoal]

Yes

[hallow phoenix]

Bdk can mega pump

[smoky shoal]

I know

[brittle owl]

all tanks can pump

just about the same on ST

the diff is neglijable

[hallow phoenix]

Do what I did. Have him put on CoF and null barrier

[brittle owl]

and cyclo blast

[hallow phoenix]

Yeah

[smoky shoal]

I think at this point leaving the guild is the best answer lul

[hallow phoenix]

Join me

[brittle owl]

either that or you convince gm to trial another tank

cuz like

[smoky shoal]

Since I joined the guild I gained 10kdps, while his dps staggered

[brittle owl]

doing shit dps

on any tank, except maybe vdh

[smoky shoal]

We are supposed to get a old member back in the roster

[brittle owl]

means being shit defensively as well

[smoky shoal]

But he's missing every raid

Yesterday night was supposed to be a raid to funnel him with plate gear, but he didn't logged at all

[brittle owl]

esp 13k levels of shit when you sim for 20k

100% he has bad RP generation

[smoky shoal]

The worst is I have almost the same HPS as him

[brittle owl]

i mean

that's mostly cuz brew is broken atm

even if he had more hps

your hps heals a waaaaay bigger % of hp than his

30k hps brew is not uncommon and that means being completely self sustainable

[hallow phoenix]

What hp values are bdks rocking nowadays

[brittle owl]

600-700k at mythic ilvl

somewhere around there

[hallow phoenix]

Damn

Pre-fort?

[brittle owl]

idk

you can reach 1 mil hp easy as dk with vamp blood in raids

[smoky shoal]

Just checked the wowanalyzer, beside not enough cast of Blooddrinker and DRW it's...Decent

I suppose

[hallow phoenix]

13k tho

[brittle owl]

not casting drw on cd is big

theres lit no reason not to

[hallow phoenix]

My healers do that much dps

[smoky shoal]

It swing between 13k and 16k

Still pretty far from the 20k he sims tho

[brittle owl]

you lose out so much cdr from red thirst

aside from paladin there's really no other tank that needs to think about their dps cds

even then, its only seraphim that req management

[hallow phoenix]

Is seraphim the go to

I honestly never see it

[smoky shoal]

Doesn't paladin pop wings at open of a fight, than hold it for huge damage, otherwise use it freely for dps?

[brittle owl]

yep

its with seraphim that you need to manage

if you know how to play the class seraphim is autopick nowadays for most raidfights

since you can offset issues with luvid dreams when you prog

[hallow phoenix]

Like 4k in stats right

[brittle owl]

1k in every stat

[hallow phoenix]

Disgusting

[brittle owl]

vers mast crit haste

yes

[hallow phoenix]

I should unshelf my pally

Grinding essences again is daunting tho

[brittle owl]

makes trinkets and CoF retardedly strong

since most are affected by secondaries

[smoky shoal]

I've seen few pallys playing with Seraphim in Tyra weeks too

[hallow phoenix]

Why not just always use it

[brittle owl]

after a certain point

where trash lives long enough

or hits hard enough

you want LD

i personally swap to LD in keys at around 19

[smoky shoal]

I think if I play agane my pally I'll be the pepega who will keep using a old build

[hallow phoenix]

LD caps at 15% DR and damage yeah?

[brittle owl]

but sera all the way untik then

dr caps at 50%

damage doesnt cap

[hallow phoenix]

Holy shit

[brittle owl]

you can do disgustingly big pulls with ld

its almost mandatory in order to leverage it properly

[smoky shoal]

It was always the thing that made paladin unique, they used to be stronger if they pull massive

[brittle owl]

and with bubble taunt you can enable certain pulls that other tanks cant handle

but granted those are rare

[hallow phoenix]

Stop mael

[smoky shoal]

But they have a poor kiting outside of bubble, right?

[brittle owl]

cuz pullsize is mostly limited to the group

cons is perma slow

4 sec cd

you can permanently kite

[hallow phoenix]

Making me want to do things other than war

[brittle owl]

and with spinny hammers you can do 80% of your dps while kiting

[smoky shoal]

Who plays with the spinny hammers

[brittle owl]

you play spinny hammers vs predominately phys damage

and HS vs magic dmg

from a defensive standpoint

in m+ you bh everything except ML, SotS and maybe WCM

its also more duppus

[smoky shoal]

Yes but if you pad, you do more dps, so they can't hit you

(thought process of a war prot, I missed the good spec by maining Brew)

[brittle owl]

they can be both competitive dps wise

depends on 2 factors

amount of magic damage incoming

and hitbos of the boss

for instance sivarra and behemoth have scuffed hitboxes and spinny hammers hit only once

so you use HS for damage cuz blizzard coding

[smoky shoal]

Please no Execute, I miss Legion arms

[hallow phoenix]

I like bfa arms tho

[smoky shoal]

I don't

It lack the explosivity it had in Legion

It feel empty without a burst cd

In my mind the arms woyer is that juggernaut that rush you CS>Overpowered>MS>Overpowered>Exec
And destroy you because he pop'd a cd

A bleed for mastery is weird

[brittle owl]

hey i heard you like fire mage

and would like to play it, BUT MELEE

also no cc cuz wuck farriors

[hallow phoenix]

True bleed is weird

[smoky shoal]

Fire mage is all about combu

[hallow phoenix]

But I love test of might and lucid dreams :(

[smoky shoal]

I don't like test of might :x

[hallow phoenix]

Big strengthhhh