protection

[exotic spoke]

I think s4 will open up more shenanigans for shroud. Conceptually at least

[stoic pilot]

You can skip truesight mobs occasionally

With distract

Like the elemental in shrine

[strong forum]

nerfed

[warm plinth]

Fair but that's just distract on its own; you could do the same thing with distract+invis

[strong forum]

ah that you mean

[stoic pilot]

Invis pot? No

Because you’d get pulled out

[exotic spoke]

What it accomplishes is prevents multiple shrouds though (my proposed solution I mean)

[strong forum]

distract before invis

[warm plinth]

Just distract first; it has a range

[strong forum]

done

also

[stoic pilot]

Hmm I guess that’s a fair point

[strong forum]

just use skyaggl

its impossible to pull with it

[exotic spoke]

It’s a utility choice - it shouldn’t be the go to. Providing a viable option would help

[strong forum]

you can walk through enemies with that

cuz youre in another realm

[stoic pilot]

Yeah I agree invis pots need to be better

Off potion cd would probably be enough

[strong forum]

skyaggl drink is best invis pot

cuz its not stealth

its literally invisibility

[exotic spoke]

But make shroud give a debuff to prevent multi shroud and invis pots

And Nome is correct

[strong forum]

give shroud a 3min CD

but 10min debuff

like hero / lust

done

[warm plinth]

You can walk through enemies with any invis pot (that doesn't have true sight). I used to exclusively use draenic ones because they were the cheapest on my server. Walked through mobs all the time and never pulled anything

[exotic spoke]

May as well give it 10 minute lol

If it has a 10 minute Debuff

[strong forum]

i mean lust / heroism has the same shit

3min cd but 10min debuff

whats the reasoning for that

[exotic spoke]

Cocaines a hell of a drug

[strong forum]

cuz if its 10min cd you can use it multiple times

from multiple sources

just make 10min debuff

[exotic spoke]

I meant just make the cD share the debuff length

[warm plinth]

Well idk if it's the reason but I know mages had some legendary or something in Legion where their sated debuff only lasted 5 minutes or something

[strong forum]

🤷

they didnt get it at all ghash

[exotic spoke]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[stoic pilot]

I remember that

Carrying drums for our mages so they wouldn’t whine

So they could double hero in dungeons

[warm plinth]

Yep

[exotic spoke]

I remember out healing healers as a prot warrior

[strong forum]

ye same

1mil hps, never needing healing in dungeons

was fun

[exotic spoke]

Did 1.5M hps once

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/73zB.gif I'm annoyed this gif doesn't have the text

[stoic pilot]

Out of curiosity, is the way prot plays now how it played in Legion?

[strong forum]

not even remotely

[exotic spoke]

Nope

[strong forum]

back then our main midigation was IP

and block was only 30% reduction

[exotic spoke]

Except for AM checks

[strong forum]

flat 30%

ye but there were AM checks

[stoic pilot]

But like rotational wise the same?

Or completely diff entirely

[warm plinth]

Different entirely

[stoic pilot]

(Never played prot Warrior before last tier)

[warm plinth]

Legion, especially toward the end, was a lot about Shield Slam

[stoic pilot]

Ahh okay

[exotic spoke]

Nah, avatar wasn’t base like. We had. Different offensive cooldown.

[warm plinth]

But yeah you didn't have Unstoppable Force for one

[strong forum]

Prot got a full rework

[exotic spoke]

And early on I like the revenge IP thing

[strong forum]

vengeance weaving

i liked focused rage

that shit was fun

[exotic spoke]

Yeahhhhh

[stoic pilot]

I’m really enjoying this iteration of it, albeit I didn’t play previous versions it’s probably the most fun tank I’ve played

[warm plinth]

I didn't play warrior during that time but honestly it never sounded that great to me lol

[exotic spoke]

Then we just took devastator after it was changed

[stoic pilot]

Comparative to other tank classes

[strong forum]

ye i think current prot is one of the best iterations yet

[exotic spoke]

I feel like we had a much higher APM / skill cap in legion

[strong forum]

gameplay wise

[warm plinth]

Honestly our APM at the end of Legion was way too fucking high

[strong forum]

we had higher apm in legion

ye like 100

[warm plinth]

It was actually ridiculous

[exotic spoke]

But, until you got certain legendaries we had some issues

[stoic pilot]

Jesus

[strong forum]

currently prot is like 75 apm

back then it was like 100+

cuz during battle cry shield slam had no CD

[warm plinth]

Like T21 prot was fun for like 15 minutes and then it was like alright, when does this carpal tunnel kick in

[strong forum]

you gained EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF RAGE

to spam into IP

with no CD

[exotic spoke]

Yes. Battle cry was fun

[strong forum]

during end of legion

you had 900 rage gained per minute

or some shit

[stoic pilot]

Jfc

I’m tempted enough to go look up some antorus vids of prot Warrior

This sounds ridiculous

[warm plinth]

But yeah it was basically just spamming the everliving shit out of Shield Slam and IP toward the end lol

[strong forum]

prot dps was insane

[exotic spoke]

Antorus had hounds yeah?

[stoic pilot]

I primarily played VDH back then and that was pretty fun

[warm plinth]

Yeah

2nd boss

iirc

I actually enjoyed VDH more than prot

[strong forum]

i remember pushing 2mil dps as prot, being fucking undergeard 940 pleb

[warm plinth]

VDH was so much fun in Legion. It still is; just not as strong

[exotic spoke]

Yeah - I had to solo tank them once. Druid co tank died twice on one pull and so we said fuck it - do the last 50-60% or so

[strong forum]

VDH played like current VDH, but perma meta

[warm plinth]

And fracture was different

[exotic spoke]

Healers bombed CDs on me and inspiring presence healed the raid up

[strong forum]

ye but essentially plays the same

but youre just way stronger

[warm plinth]

Yep

[strong forum]

in every regard

more tanky, WAY MORE dmg

[stoic pilot]

Vengeance in antorus with 4 set + KJ trinket

Was about 70% uptime in a m+ of meta

[exotic spoke]

Ahhh VDH now. Does everything hdh does but worse

[stoic pilot]

It was insane

[warm plinth]

Yeah like I remember in Legion I didn't hit Demon Spikes unless I was pulling massive and even then I was just like meh /cast spirit bomb

[strong forum]

vdh is still fun

i enjoy it

pushed 90k hps in a meme key

[exotic spoke]

Never said it wasn’t fun

[strong forum]

with VoP + Glut

[stoic pilot]

Also Jesus this is ridiculous

[distant crystal]

vdh with glut is p beefy

[strong forum]

ye is many fun

also breaks your fingers

[warm plinth]

Honestly I'm not convinced that the whole VDH HDH meme is true at this point. VDH is actually pretty tanky right now.

[stoic pilot]

Watching some mythic Argus prot Warrior and his shield slam is just perma proccing

[strong forum]

in a 30min key, i pressed fracture 441 times and soul cleave 457 times

BROS MY FUCKING HANDS HURT

[warm plinth]

They definitely aren't even close to as strong as they were in Legion, but they aren't a meme to me anymore.

[exotic spoke]

I just go with what my DH says. He seems smart for a dps

[distant crystal]

i mean my keybind for t-clap is a finger breaker

shift+r

[stoic pilot]

Mines shift 6

[warm plinth]

Yeah and keep in mind Meekuh, we had 100ish APM and that was with DEVASTATOR

[strong forum]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/493784464

look at this shit

look at it

[distant crystal]

my pinky is swole

[stoic pilot]

Watching antorus gameplay makes me sad

[exotic spoke]

The fuck would you put TC on a bind with a modifier

[stoic pilot]

I miss self sufficient tanks

[warm plinth]

Why the fuck is your binding for TC a modifier

[distant crystal]

it's a good quest but it's too late to go back now

[warm plinth]

That's not remotely true

[stoic pilot]

Uhh I’m left handed and idk it’s comfortable enough for me

[distant crystal]

what's worse is

my revenge keybind

[warm plinth]

We got catfriend to use keybindings after playing WoW as a clicker since Wrath. If she can do it, you can do it.

[distant crystal]

is 1

lul

[strong forum]

1 tc

2 devastate

3 revenge

4 shieldslam

F to ignore pain

F

[distant crystal]

i have 1 revenge 2 shieldslam 3 shieldblock 4 devestate

[stoic pilot]

I was thinking of putting my tclap on a non modifier button but it’s too muscle memory now

[warm plinth]

Give yourself like a day and you'll be used to it

[exotic spoke]

1 avatar 2 intervene 3 shield slam 4 block 5 TC

[strong forum]

thats weird

wtf i dont like your binds riki

[sweet summit]

my keybinds are superior, bow to me

[warm plinth]

That's equally as weird as him having TC on a modifier

Why would Avatar be on 1

You weirdo

[stoic pilot]

Idk like I haven’t had any issues with it

[exotic spoke]

Shield block on an alt modifier?

[strong forum]

avatar is Shit+F Demo shift+E charge on X shieldblock on Shift+4

[sweet summit]

ofc

[stoic pilot]

My shield block is on 6 clap on shift 6

My avatar is comma

[warm plinth]

COMMA

WHAT

[sweet summit]

WHAT

[strong forum]

hes left handed

[stoic pilot]

^

[warm plinth]

So am I

Wait

[exotic spoke]

@warm plinth because my fingers are usually on 2-5

[warm plinth]

You're one of those fucking weirdos that actually uses the mouse left-handed?

[exotic spoke]

Nome it’s a good thing you don’t need to use them

Who me?

[stoic pilot]

Yeah lmao

[warm plinth]

Meekuh why are you like this

[exotic spoke]

My head hurts

[stoic pilot]

my binds

[warm plinth]

I'm just kidding, kind of. But seriously left-handed people that use the mouse left-handed weird me the fuck out

[strong forum]

ip on 6

[exotic spoke]

Ip + last stand + reflect on mouse binds with a modifier for LS and Reflect

[eager rapids]

lol default ui ?

[strong forum]

bro how large are your hands

[strong forum]

how do you press 7

[stoic pilot]

i put my fingers on weird keys

[exotic spoke]

Nothing wrong with default UI

[warm plinth]

Well 7 for him would be probably close to where his normal resting position is

[strong forum]

last stand is shift + mouse 5

for me

[warm plinth]

Since he's using his right hand

[strong forum]

:hahaa:

[eager rapids]

get a better ui boi

[exotic spoke]

Yeah that’s mine actually Nome

[strong forum]

brudda

[exotic spoke]

It’s perfectly fine as is Vato. You don’t need to move everything around

[stoic pilot]

idk like

[distant crystal]

i might actually try swapping tclap and revenge

i feel like i could get used to it

[stoic pilot]

if I specifically need something for my UI

it's usually something I just grab as a weakaura

rather than re-do my entire ui

[strong forum]

@warm plinth thats my ui in action

[stoic pilot]

everytime i've tried to redo my UI it just ends up with me reverting because information overload and I can't commit

[eager rapids]

might aswell consider playing with a steering wheel

[distant crystal]

i have legit been thinking about buying one of those racing game pedals

for push to talk

[eager rapids]

😄

[exotic spoke]

Lol - games not hard and you don’t need much info.
I guess if you need something to tell you how to play then the base UI isn’t good enough

[distant crystal]

here we go

[stoic pilot]

idk I've always used the base UI and haven't really had any issues

[strong forum]

nothing wrong with default ui

[stoic pilot]

if anything I just need to buy a higher res monitor so I have more screen space

my screen is cramped

[warm plinth]

Think this is it 🤔

F5 is not actually F5, it's the top extra key on the left side of my keyboard

[strong forum]

throw is mouse 4 for me

[stoic pilot]

i have ctrl-t for my throw

[distant crystal]

ok i changed throw to shift-r

[chilly brook]

@stoic pilot just get an ultra wide

[distant crystal]

tclap to 1

revenge to q

gonna fuck it up bad for awhile

[warm plinth]

I can't use Q/E bindings. I'd fat finger them way too much.

[exotic spoke]

QQ more

[stoic pilot]

I was thinking about it @chilly brook I'm still living on 1680x1050p monitor

from like a million years ago

[chilly brook]

Ultrawides are 👌🏻

[warm plinth]

I already hit caps lock like 800 times a day

And that's not even really that close lol

[stoic pilot]

I think the only button that I fat finger I'm like holy shit what is going on

is when I miss my avatar

and I hit the map button

[distant crystal]

idk how but i always end up turning on capslock

[chilly brook]

Only reason I got rid of mine is because I play siege as my main game and an ultra wide high refresh rate is cost prohibitive

[warm plinth]

Do you have your strafe on A/D Waat?

[distant crystal]

ye

[warm plinth]

I do as well; I think it's just accidentally hitting it when you hit A

[chilly brook]

My ad is still turn but I mean it’s strafe if you hold down right click

[exotic spoke]

^^

[chilly brook]

Thunderclap is E

[distant crystal]

keyboard turner oof

[chilly brook]

Shockwave is Q

[exotic spoke]

How else are you going to RP turn

[distant crystal]

with a nice slow controlled mouse movement

[warm plinth]

Oh yeah I forgot Shockwave and Storm Bolt D:

[distant crystal]

ldo

[strong forum]

i just hold right click

24/7

[warm plinth]

Shockwave is V and Storm Bolt is Shift-C

[strong forum]

to strafe

[chilly brook]

Storm bolt is shift q

[distant crystal]

i just don't have a stormbolt bind as prot

[chilly brook]

Same @strong forum

[strong forum]

ye me neither

[distant crystal]

rumbling earth 4eva

[warm plinth]

Shift-Q is kind of awkward

[strong forum]

same waat

[chilly brook]

Charge is C

[strong forum]

fuck stormbolt

[warm plinth]

Eh I guess it's not that bad actually

[chilly brook]

Meh any keybind is awkward until you get used to it

[warm plinth]

Pinky on shift, ring on Q

Pretty easy

[chilly brook]

Leap is up arrow

[warm plinth]

Okay now stop

What the fuck do you mean it's up arrow

[distant crystal]

i got freakishly long fingers

[chilly brook]

It is

[distant crystal]

so i can have more binds than most

[strong forum]

leap is shift+1 for me

[warm plinth]

You take your hand off the mouse to leap?

[chilly brook]

Nope

[warm plinth]

Or you reach across the entire keyboard or something

[chilly brook]

Nope

[distant crystal]

he uses his nipple to leap

[strong forum]

do you have a gamepad like orborus

[warm plinth]

LOL

[strong forum]

or some shit

[distant crystal]

up your nipple dexterity my dude

[strong forum]

i figure it out

[warm plinth]

Okay but I'm really curious though

[strong forum]

he literally head smashes

[chilly brook]

I have a razer Tartarus v2 or w/e it is and it has a dpad which is mapped to my arrow keys and it rests on my thumb

[exotic spoke]

Tongue obv

[strong forum]

ye thats what i figured

[warm plinth]

Oh I can't use those weird ass gamepads

[distant crystal]

so basically you use like mouse8 to leap

trying to be all tricky saying uparrow

[exotic spoke]

Lol

[chilly brook]

I mean it is up arrow

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warm plinth]

Ikr, like I could have said insert, home, page up and shit for my mouse buttons but I didn't lol

Kaege is missing the daily keybind discussion 😢

[chilly brook]

My demo Shout is on f

Avatar on x

[distant crystal]

the other night marok was in the general voice channel with some peeps

and i was drunk so i popped in

[chilly brook]

Shift f is fear

[distant crystal]

he insta movved us all to some hidden voice channel

including me

and then kicked me out

lol

[strong forum]

he did warrior only HC clear

one of my guild mates was in

[warm plinth]

How can you bind X man

[sage path]

Is Prot still good in keys?

[strong forum]

X is charge

[warm plinth]

How do you sit down and relax

[waxen cradle]

dammit stop talking about binds your making me want to go rethink all of mine lol

[strong forum]

yes @sage path 2nd best

[warm plinth]

Yes Rin

[distant crystal]

@waxen cradle good

[strong forum]

will prolly be best again next season

[warm plinth]

Eh, you gotta use the binds that work for you

[distant crystal]

we're making you a better gamer

like Day[9]

[exotic spoke]

Yes @sage path we’re still really good in keys and raids

[warm plinth]

There are some things that are objectively wrong, like clicking

[exotic spoke]

Oh Day[9]

[warm plinth]

But if your bindings aren't comfortable for you, you're going to play worse

[distant crystal]

in highmaul our offtnak outed himself as a clicker

[chilly brook]

My shield block is on R

[distant crystal]

when he accidentally clicked blood presence

[waxen cradle]

I am going to go with a big DUH on the not clicking thing

[distant crystal]

and got merced

[warm plinth]

lullll

[chilly brook]

Shield wall middle mouse, last stand shift middle mouse

[exotic spoke]

One person i play with swapped to rogue. After accidentally ducking Shroud mang Times after he swapped he unbound it just to click it and prevent fat fingering it

[sage path]

Yeah

[distant crystal]

i click drums

for that reason :p

[warm plinth]

I use the button on the far right of my mouse for my extra action button (like for cannon on 2nd boss of Siege), and to mount I press my mouse wheel to the right

[distant crystal]

but oin my mage i keybind timewarp

go figure

[strong forum]

oh yeah i wanted to sim myself

[chilly brook]

My mouse actually does a lot of things

[distant crystal]

i use ctrl-1 for EAB

[sage path]

I have my immunity bound on the same key as my pot to sometimes before pull I immune and cuck myself a pot LOL.

As DH

[exotic spoke]

Rip

That sounds like something that should be changed

[warm plinth]

I try to keep things similar across toons

to avoid stuff like that

[distant crystal]

my kick is r

[sage path]

Yup now it’s bound on the same key as my TRINKET XD

[distant crystal]

on every toon

and my blink/charge/shadowstep is e

[exotic spoke]

My kick is t

[chilly brook]

I have taunt, interrupt, berserker rage, trinket, snare, prepot all on my mouse

[sage path]

Same all my movement spells are the same key.

[distant crystal]

shift-e is always some kind of ground effect

[exotic spoke]

Leap is y

[distant crystal]

blizzard, leap, flamestrike, mass dispel

[warm plinth]

Like on my warrior, F2 is my quest item thing for Zygor. It's one of the few things that isn't consistent. And just today I accidentally hit Avenger's Might on my pally because I went to use a quest item (AM is on F2 lol)

[sage path]

My leap is my 7 key, but on DH havoc don’t have leap so I backvault away XD.

Did that in a 21 siege and got blown up by 2nd boss cannon barrage.

[chilly brook]

Lul

[distant crystal]

just bind meta to the leap key

ez claps

[warm plinth]

I need to move my retreat key on my DH

[sage path]

But I miss my war so much. BF is war this tier so I stopped gearing my war.

[warm plinth]

I literally never use that spell except by accident because it’s on 5 and chaos nova is on 6 lol

[sage path]

Oh it’s so useful if you tank is kiting 70% slow for 3 seconds AOE Slow.

[distant crystal]

is it true that when you hit 70 neck

ap emissaries become gold

[sage path]

Yes

[chilly brook]

Yes

[distant crystal]

damn i need to get 70

[stoic pilot]

Island cap turns into gold too 🙂

[sage path]

3000 AP become 2k gold

[distant crystal]

i'm poor af

[sage path]

Just sell carries

Plate stack carries sell for so much.

[distant crystal]

i haven't spent $ on wow since mid 2018

been buying my game time with gold since then

but it's getting tight right now

[warm plinth]

I have never had enough gold to buy a token

[distant crystal]

for like 6 months i was on a gambling winning streak

[strong forum]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eBsY5G3CddiMNYmXb3gnYv

hehey

[warm plinth]

Even when they were like 100k

[distant crystal]

in our raid CG gambling

[strong forum]

actually pretty decent

[sage path]

...

Oh it’s PROT XD

[strong forum]

i think thats as far as i can go

without full benthic memes

[distant crystal]

just get zaqul weapon

and more RF's

[strong forum]

no?

[distant crystal]

yes!

[strong forum]

no

[sage path]

Wait Reckless Flurry?

[warm plinth]

Yes

[distant crystal]

best st dps trait for prot

:p

[sage path]

Have a friend that ran triple that in keys

Got me killed...

[distant crystal]

kinda weak in keys

[warm plinth]

How does that get you killed?

[sage path]

DH burst

In AoE

[exotic spoke]

Why the fuck would you use it in keys

I mean - that doesn’t have anything to do with RF 😛

[stoic pilot]

i saw some dude the other day running impending victory, devastator and heavy repercussions in a pug 10 on my alt

[warm plinth]

Idk we've actually had a couple of people in here lately who clearly have been doing keys this entire time with Devastator. That's not much of a stretch.

[stoic pilot]

people run whatever they want

[sage path]

He legit used triple Reckless and Devastator and no thunderclap or bastion at all

[strong forum]

lemme sim same pieces

with including RFs on every piece

[distant crystal]

i had to beg my old guildmaster

to not run indomitable

like...bruh...why

[strong forum]

cuz he watched scos

beta video

[sage path]

Lol he no like bolstering?

[warm plinth]

What's not fun on my DH is when I peel with nothing but Eye Beam

[strong forum]

of tank ranking

DH cleave is defo weird

[warm plinth]

Our AoE is just insanely frontloaded

[exotic spoke]

I’m running the dream set up for m+ survivability

It’s great

[sage path]

DH tanking is so sad

You can either go big dam

[stoic pilot]

i was running 3x bom, 2x MS 1x DC

[strong forum]

3x bom 2x ms 1x dc edict + urchin

is bis

[sage path]

Or bitch survival

[strong forum]

and now i have orgo weapon too

[stoic pilot]

the only thing that sucks is I wish that the 2 MS pieces has better defensive traits

bulwark is so ass

[distant crystal]

i miss my old setup from last tier

3 Bom 3 DC memes

[strong forum]

fuck 3x dc

FUCK OUTTA HERE

[distant crystal]

clap clap clap

[exotic spoke]

Trait wise I have that Nome. I run (now after Tuesday) 445 urchin and either 445 inkpod or 450 coral

[strong forum]

for keys

[distant crystal]

it was more fun when reaping was a thing tho

[strong forum]

coral?

inkpod?

[distant crystal]

coral is dec in keys

[strong forum]

on fort sanguine griev?

[sage path]

You either get soul bomb or gluttony to stay in meta longer and get passive Armor. It’s pretty dumb. War you just use CDs currently and hope for vision procs.

[warm plinth]

I have 3x BoM, 1x DC, 1 IF and 1 BfI. 2 OP too 😄

[distant crystal]

i guess not as much for prot but love it on rogue

[exotic spoke]

In general Nome. As a starting point for the week

I have shit trinkets this tier

[stoic pilot]

^

I still don't have an urchin or edict above 445, been using alch trinket + rezans like this entire tier

[exotic spoke]

430 edicts, 435 howler, 430 gore,

[warm plinth]

But I don't have full 445s yet, only one. So I'm scared 😦

[strong forum]

thats my setup for m+

[stoic pilot]

and we're extending until azshara is dead

[exotic spoke]

I will shank a mother fucker with a mother fucker

[sage path]

Sui is that you?

[strong forum]

drown in jelly of my gear

:hahaa:

[sage path]

My friend Sui ran the same build last season to 4k

But he had 2 Bulwarks

[warm plinth]

Imagine having the same level shield as me and I haven't even been in LFR. #JustWarforgeThings

😏

[waxen cradle]

Currently running 3 BoM, 2 DC, 1 MS only because I cannot get a lucky gamble on the Ashvane chest

[strong forum]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cX759VA7wukZjHrSr9gR6j

[strong forum]

RF is minimal gain

literally minimal gain

over MS

[distant crystal]

[warm plinth]

I desperately need any trinket though

[waxen cradle]

when I can get a lucky gamble or if I can get a lucky gamble will go to 3 BoM, 1 DC, 2 MS

[warm plinth]

My trinkets are fucking ass

[strong forum]

i got lucky with chest

[warm plinth]

430 merektha and 410 overclock 🤢

[strong forum]

insta rolled ashvane

took me 4 rolls for kraken

[sage path]

BF build.

[warm plinth]

Yeah my first roll for 445 on my war got me ashvane

[distant crystal]

bloodsport

ew

[warm plinth]

I have lockjaw and abyssal for 430s

So I literally have to get the same shit or it's a downgrade (except I could get skyscorcher)

[exotic spoke]

I have to pug heroic horde side... fuck

[waxen cradle]

I saved and bought Kraken because my shoulders were pure ass, and I had to choose between a decent chest or much better shoulders

[chilly brook]

@sage path idk I like DH tanking and you don’t really lose that much DPS when you go the visions/gluttony build

[distant crystal]

riki do you ever use the orgo weapon active

is that a thing that people do

[sage path]

You don’t like bombing mobs?

[waxen cradle]

by decent I mean I have Desert Guardians chest so it was switch that one or switch pure shit shoulders

[exotic spoke]

I don’t have it Waat

[sage path]

That kind huge for big pulls and ML.

[distant crystal]

oh that was Nom mb

[sick sentinel]

Hi, do you guys use voice chat?

[exotic spoke]

Got a 450 socketed from first boss

[distant crystal]

damn

[sage path]

Why not?

You need to call for bark right?

[warm plinth]

lul

[exotic spoke]

Yes Ariana

[chilly brook]

Don’t get me wrong spirit bomb feels better but you’re not gonna lose that much when going the meta build

[exotic spoke]

Any high end content should use voice chat

[warm plinth]

I could never play vdh without SpB

[sage path]

Yeah I guess I’ll give it a try. 😄 I have R1 DH gear.

[strong forum]

meta build is insanely fun actually

[chilly brook]

I mean you get to do bigger pulls with the meta build

[strong forum]

defo feel safer

[waxen cradle]

Luckily I have had decent luck on trinkets, still hunting 445 Inkpod or 445 Razor

[sage path]

I don’t have a pic of my Vengence build but this is my havoc build.

[warm plinth]

Holy FG batman

[distant crystal]

my main's gear is pretty gross

[warm plinth]

And 2 OP, so much haste

Haste fo dayz

[sage path]

I can get 3 but I lose out in AoE actually.

[warm plinth]

No Revolving though, feelsbad

[strong forum]

im proud my children

[sage path]

Ah that’s a disgusting rogue build.

[strong forum]

i started rio linking cuz its easy observation

[sage path]

Kinbote will be proud.

[strong forum]

and it caught on

im proud

[warm plinth]

What's your 2nd trinket Rin? I don't recognize it

[strong forum]

dice

[warm plinth]

Dice is the one I recognize

[strong forum]

inkpod

[warm plinth]

Ah

[distant crystal]

still wearing 420 socket boots and 415 socket ring from last tier/season tho

[sage path]

I have 450 coral but I run dice cuz big pulls.

[distant crystal]

better than the 445's i've gotten smh

[warm plinth]

My DH

[sage path]

It’s way easier to manage and I get distracted in high keys when I run Spyglass.

[chilly brook]

I got 430 socketed boots last night in heroic

Was kinda nice

[warm plinth]

I got 430 socketed boots last night in Motherlode

😄

[strong forum]

my dh

[chilly brook]

I have 5 sockets on my warrior now, all of my trinkets are socketed

[sage path]

You remind me of my friend Drazz from Midwinter.

[warm plinth]

Is that a 445 diver's?

[oblique garnet]

not even folly

[strong forum]

i did raid once

[warm plinth]

I don't recognize many weapon icons

[strong forum]

on dh

so no folly to be had

[warm plinth]

What are you using in MH? I recognize crawg tusks

[chilly brook]

I still can’t believe some dummy called me undergeared because I wasn’t stam stacking and had 480k unbuffed

[strong forum]

thats 1st boss

mythic

[warm plinth]

Ah

[strong forum]

my DH has 2 days played at 120

so

and he hit 120 mid bod

btw

:hahaa:

[warm plinth]

Havoc is so fun though

[strong forum]

literally only 1 weekly key

its VDH main

[warm plinth]

Oh

[sage path]

My trolliest build.

[strong forum]

but i play havoc for alt runs

[chilly brook]

This man literally calls me undergeared and proceeded to pull Uldir tank levels of DPS in heroic EP as a 436 Vengeance DH 🤔

[strong forum]

well

vdh does crap dps

[warm plinth]

C&S major

[strong forum]

without memes

[warm plinth]

o_O

[sage path]

1.5 minute metas

[strong forum]

like even at 443 i did barely 19k dps

[warm plinth]

And vision minor

All the metas

[sage path]

Infinity Eyebeam build

[chilly brook]

They do enough to actually be above 10k DPS at that level

[strong forum]

my vdh only sims 22k

well used to

maybe now its higher

[warm plinth]

Idk I play havoc because I probably wouldn't do well on other DPS lol

[strong forum]

cuz weapons

[warm plinth]

I'm not a particularly great player

[strong forum]

ye you dont seem very confident

[warm plinth]

I play a lot of tanks historically

[chilly brook]

Havoc is hella fun though

[warm plinth]

But I'm not great at pumping out DPS

[strong forum]

vdh is more fun than havoc

[distant crystal]

i'm gonna run

so many mythic ep's next week

[strong forum]

i wish it was 8.3

[warm plinth]

I mean I can play the specs. I'm confident to that point. But I always seem to be behind others despite understanding what I'm supposed to do lol (which means I probably don't actually understand fully)

[strong forum]

im sick of EP

[sage path]

Yeah man, I can finally raid with friends.

[strong forum]

and my guild being so serious all of a sudden

[distant crystal]

xrealm 🍀

[exotic spoke]

Why so serious

[strong forum]

we lost many of our shitposters

[sage path]

Cuz we need players

[exotic spoke]

Oof

[strong forum]

and now we have tryhards that only play for CE

[chilly brook]

Rip

[strong forum]

and i literally couldnt give a shit about CE

raiding is easy

[chilly brook]

Raid isn’t fun when everyone is hella serious tbh

[waxen cradle]

I am sick of EP due to the affect Benthic gear had on the tier, it can go die in a ditch

[sage path]

We have no bench, 4 hunters, and a Spriest doing 20k in mythic raid cuz need 20 ppl for this week reclear.

[strong forum]

if i really wanted to raid, i would be in a top 200 guild or some shit

[distant crystal]

i'm kinda wondering about benthic

[strong forum]

but cba

[lusty nova]

Would anyone here recommend playing VDH over a prot war?

[distant crystal]

i forgot to switch to raid gear for orgo this week

got my best parse ever

[sage path]

No

[strong forum]

no leit

[distant crystal]

with 0 benthic

[strong forum]

benthic is a meme

change my mind

[chilly brook]

@lusty nova if you enjoy it more I would

[strong forum]

you can still get top 10 parses without benthics

[sage path]

It’s easier but not worth it. Unless they buff DH again.

[strong forum]

not sivarra

[sage path]

Like my Soul Bomb Vaseline.

Baseline*

[strong forum]

but every boss but sivarra and behemoth

[chilly brook]

I mean honestly play whatever tank you want to play

[strong forum]

VDH is hella fun

[lusty nova]

You mean vdh is easier to play?

[sage path]

Make*

[warm plinth]

Yeah, because of the vaseline

[strong forum]

Prot is hella fun but also stronger

[chilly brook]

Unless you’re in the top 1% of guilds or m+ it won’t matter what you play

[sage path]

When you get triple bastions and you pop avatar...

You beat your DPS

[chilly brook]

Don’t play a class you don’t enjoy because it’s “better” or because your guild wants you to

You’ll be miserable

Trust me

[sage path]

Yeah fuck your guild

[chilly brook]

I was asked to play BrM and I did

[distant crystal]

enjoy all the classes

[chilly brook]

And I regret it

[distant crystal]

ez

[lusty nova]

I mean, part of the enjoyment is feeling powerful, useful, erc

Not a burden

[sage path]

Ehh then go monk

They can do everything

Literally

[lusty nova]

Bha yah, I have a brm monk already

[warm plinth]

I don't really understand the mentality of playing what others tell you. You play games to have fun. The only question you should really ask yourself when playing a game is "is this fun?". If it is, do it. If it's not, don't.

[chilly brook]

Monk nerf though 🙃

[lusty nova]

Yeeep

[sage path]

Won’t change much

[chilly brook]

Wdym

[lusty nova]

So I'm trying to start an alt just in case

[oblique garnet]

Its still gonna be monk

[warm plinth]

Monk will still be top of the heap for raid progression.

[oblique garnet]

with stagger

And dodge

[chilly brook]

The fix of orbs is pretty big tbh

[oblique garnet]

Yes and its still monk

[warm plinth]

The self healing will hurt them in M+ but not in raids

[sage path]

Stagger will still work the same way it does and more essences LOL.

[lusty nova]

Ya for raid, but m+ it looks like more war...

[sage path]

Nah monk still

[chilly brook]

Unless you’re going 23s it doesn’t matter what class you’re playing in m+

[oblique garnet]

only reason monk is better this season in m+ is because of beguiling

[lusty nova]

But if something like soul bomb baseline comes with 8.3...who knows...?

[sage path]

War is good for bosses.

When you can spell reflect

[warm plinth]

Yeah, Ring is amazing for beguiling

[strong forum]

if spirit bomb became baseline

[waxen cradle]

I am looking forward to Avatars baseline from the VoP minor coming down 25% so that will be great

[strong forum]

id reroll in a heartbeat

[sage path]

For everything else Monk.

[chilly brook]

Even then vengeance is up there doing 20+ keys

[waxen cradle]

Well if it does and it seems it will

[strong forum]

VDH is getting better and better

[chilly brook]

So I’ll reiterate

[strong forum]

every patch

[chilly brook]

Play what class you want

[warm plinth]

At 85 neck the minor will be 25.5% reduction on base CD

[lusty nova]

Ya, the vop gluttony build feels fun , but dmg is pretty weak

[sage path]

I’d learn tanking if soul bomb is baseline. Soon Bear will have 100% Vers though.

[lusty nova]

It literally just needs spirit bomb

[strong forum]

and lower CD on demon spikes

[chilly brook]

I mean

[warm plinth]

Yeah, SpB is what makes VDH fun to me honestly; if that wasn't there, I would get zero enjoyment out of it.

[strong forum]

if you can get higher uptime on Demon Spikes

[warm plinth]

Well, SpB and sigils

[chilly brook]

I’ve seen gluttony build DHs pump in aoe still

[strong forum]

VDH is looking to be very good

[sage path]

Man why don’t they just unnerf Unstoppable Power?

[strong forum]

make Gluttony baseline again

[sage path]

That would be great

[strong forum]

that also works for me

[oblique garnet]

That would be stupid

[strong forum]

the UF nerf was perfect

tbh

it was needed

100%

[lusty nova]

The fun part about vop gluttony is weaving spikes between meta

[warm plinth]

I mean, no real difference between making Gluttony baseline or making SpB baseline

Since in either case you'd take the other talent

[strong forum]

yup

[warm plinth]

Unless the replacement talent was better

Which is unlikely

[waxen cradle]

If they unnerfed UF the scream for nerfs would echo across all games I suspect

[lusty nova]

Ya, either or

[chilly brook]

There are a lot of things Vengeance has in its talent tree that should be baseline

[strong forum]

UF was perfectly nerfed, not too much not too little

[sage path]

Okay like unnerf it by 50%

[warm plinth]

Yeah I think the UF nerf was exactly what they should have done. Still left the talent strong but did a lot to bring us in line

[sage path]

And give War passive leech in Avatar.

[strong forum]

if you say anything else youre just retarding out

[warm plinth]

But like

Why

We are perfectly fine how we are

[strong forum]

cuz nonsensical powercreep

[sage path]

Buff Ignore Pain maximum capacity to 2 casts instead of 1.5.

[strong forum]

its 1.3

[chilly brook]

Like Fel Devastation, fucking sick ability but it’s never gonna be taken against gluttony and spirit bomb, it should just be a part of the spellbook baseline

[strong forum]

warri doesnt need buffs.

period

[warm plinth]

Yeah we don't need buffs at all

[strong forum]

only arms

needs love

gib arms

pls

i beg

[warm plinth]

Yeah but what would that accomplish Griff? They'd just replace it with another talent that would probably never get used.

[sage path]

Revert execute rage refund

[lusty nova]

Just combine gluttony and fel dev!

[strong forum]

YES

[warm plinth]

You guys are being silly now

[strong forum]

actually yes

that would be huge

[waxen cradle]

Also I hate buffs anymore unless they come in the form of class reworks which is irrelevant because that is for Alpha/Beta because they come at the cost of something else

[sage path]

Like just gimme real EXECUTE back.

[waxen cradle]

tldr leave us alone

[sage path]

It should be a reward for staying alive until 35% boss HP.

[chilly brook]

@warm plinth let me actually use a really cool ability that would actually in some way help in periods of mitigation downtime

[strong forum]

execute is huge tho

for arms

[sage path]

To climb dps meters to the top.

[chilly brook]

Since it is also a kinda nice heal

[strong forum]

cuz of 3x ToM

but its still not strong enough

good arms does 150k+ dps in execute phase

but its only 20%

not 35%

[warm plinth]

Yeah I will give you that; it sucks when cool abilities are inferior

[sage path]

Wait what?

[warm plinth]

Like Elemental Blast on ele sham which is one of the coolest spells in the game

[sage path]

No more massacre?

[strong forum]

no

you dont play massacre

[sage path]

😭 That was my first spec when I was born this expansion!

[strong forum]

you play fervor of battle

[warm plinth]

You're a fervor of battle

[strong forum]

owo

[warm plinth]

Wrekt

[sage path]

Literally kills me to hear no more massacre now.

[strong forum]

ever since 3x ToM

you play fervor

[waxen cradle]

One of the only changes I want to see for the next expac really is for FFS get rid of talents that your a retard if you run ~98 to 99% of the time

[strong forum]

ever since rage refund nerf i think

actually

ye talents are massively underpowered

[sage path]

What about mastery?

[strong forum]

so is mastery

[sage path]

Is it any better now?

[strong forum]

no

the 1000% buff didnt make it good

still not good

still worst stat

[chilly brook]

sooo

umm

I ran a sim for gluttony build because I was curios

but uh

[sage path]

Well going DH wasn’t a mistake. I’d still be AoTC if War.

[strong forum]

yes its VERY LOW ST DMG

[warm plinth]

Oof

[strong forum]

incredibly low

welcome to VDH

[chilly brook]

Where is Soul Cleave though????

[exotic spoke]

You’re low single target damage

[strong forum]

hm

good question

[chilly brook]

It's not even in the damage breakdown

[waxen cradle]

I do not mind having talent choices and YES I KNOW there will always be one talent setup that is best for 1 situation, but come on if there are talents that if your raiding or running M+ that you will never touch that is a issue

[chilly brook]

I think the sim is broke

[silver sail]

tank streaming the raid test atm

if anyone is interested

https://www.twitch.tv/nnidiot

[warm plinth]

#promotion

[sage path]

I remember back in S1 my guild 3 tank heroic Zul on Alliance. I was Prot for that fight. Top DPS XD.

[silver sail]

can confirm that the new minors seem trash

for tanks

[warm plinth]

It is Drkreven, but it's hard to balance that sort of thing. And to me, even if a talent row is close to each other, suboptimal is still suboptimal

[chilly brook]

I mean

[strong forum]

"fapjerker"

okay

[undone sun]

doesn't even hide preview

😡

#promotion

#promotion

#promotion

[strong forum]

thyme popping off

[warm plinth]

The preview provides a lot of insight into the stream Thyme

[undone sun]

zero

[chilly brook]

How about we get rid of this talent system and go back to talent trees and we just have all the damn abilities again.....

[exotic spoke]

Get the fuck out of here with your twitch hoe-ery (that’s what #promotion is for)

[sage path]

That would be

Too complicated

[chilly brook]

Wait

hold up

[exotic spoke]

Unpopular opinion - talent trees where bloated and didn’t really change much. Almost always a few optimum cookie cutter builds and that’s it

[chilly brook]

They were talking about a level squish

[waxen cradle]

Yeah this is true, sometimes they seem almost like trap talents for new players, and talents of that sort certainly paint a big shiny this is a new player target on a players back and certainly is not constructive

[warm plinth]

Don't think that was ever going to happen before 9.0 though

[sage path]

Would nice I haven’t leveled a single toon from 1 yet.

[chilly brook]

What if the level squish was so they could bring talent trees back and not have an awkward talent point system because we have so many levels

[sage path]

I want rerollable stats.

[chilly brook]

don't we all

[warm plinth]

I wouldn't mind them bringing reforging back

[exotic spoke]

Like - do they really matter? Imo in most cases we’d all have pretty much the same build Much like now

[sage path]

And also craftable sockets.

[warm plinth]

Yeah I agree Riki. It's the same concept but with more points.

[exotic spoke]

Reforging was. Headache and I see why they got rid of that

[chilly brook]

Imo yes it does matter

[warm plinth]

Nah sockets should just be removed honestly. No one likes to lose ilevel to improve their character.

[sage path]

Yeah true

[waxen cradle]

It is ironic they do not want reforging stats but we can reroll traits

and it happens all the time

[sage path]

I have to wear a 430 belt with socket vs Mythic Azshara belt with Crit effect cuz better stats + socket 😭

[chilly brook]

Classic has quite a few examples where even if it's overall the same build, depending on gear and how you personally want to play you have freedom to deposit points to your favor that won't hurt you

Sopckets should exist

[waxen cradle]

someone will say hey let me go back to town and change traits in a raid and there argument was get the gear equip it and go

[chilly brook]

they just shouldn't be rng

[waxen cradle]

We saw how that turned out

[exotic spoke]

But there’s an optimum build. If you’re not playing that you’re wrong

Just make weapon specialization a single 5 point talent and boom - you’re pretty much removed options from arms. You either go arms 31/5/15 or 31/20 or 17/34 fury

I see zero gains by swapping to talent trees where there is a few optimum builds. It’s unnecessarily bloated and adds very little

[sage path]

I can’t imagine level squish for DHs and DKs.

[chilly brook]

I'd say that saying it adds very little is wrong

[sage path]

What do you guys think the new Tinker class is gonna be like?

[exotic spoke]

I mean that’s your opinion.

I see no measurable gain.

“Oh hey.. I got an axe... now I have to respec to axe to get crit instead of sword spec”

[waxen cradle]

Yeah I get what your saying, it almost begs the question why have talent trees at all, it was suggested to create choice, but if the majority of players are running the same talent how much of a choice was there as everyone will just run the topped simmed build so I agree, but do not see a easy answer

[warm plinth]

We don't even know if there's going to be a Tinker class. It wasn't an official announcement.

[exotic spoke]

I think that’s actually pretty negative honestly

[warm plinth]

It was the same random "leak" posts that happen before every expansion where 70% of it doesn't end up being real

[exotic spoke]

Because it boils down to 3-5 specs at most. May as well just say “here you go pick these”

[chilly brook]

It adds more areas for tweaking for the devs for one, which means that tuning doesn't have to be so heavy handed in a lot of cases. It also means that you have an actual system that you can see where you are getting more powerful. All this stuff like Azerite, Artifact weapon etc, were systems that were used to supplement your class power because it's not good enough on its own.

[exotic spoke]

Lol - devs tweaking.

[outer dew]

Only optimal thing I need is @warm plinth

😉

[exotic spoke]

Sure they can tweak talents - butthey could do that for individual abilities now. Zero difference

[waxen cradle]

Agreed Riki

[chilly brook]

@waxen cradle for one look at how much trouble they've had making the classes feel good ever since they cut out a bunch of abilities and their talent trees....

[sage path]

Prot War tank S1 felt like banging your 🗑.

[chilly brook]

It's like removing the spine of a human and replacing it with a bunch of different materials trying to figure out what one will actually support the weight

[waxen cradle]

Hey don't fetish shame me

[sage path]

GCD...

[chilly brook]

Prot war S1 felt fine...

[sage path]

What was wrong with pushing more than 2 buttons at once?

[waxen cradle]

Carpel tunnel ?

[sage path]

Popping all your CDs at once

[chilly brook]

Not defending the GCD changes but IP wasn't exactly great either

[waxen cradle]

Last tier of Legion, hands hurt bad

[sage path]

When your hands break just throw your keyboard on floor and stomp on the thing.

[exotic spoke]

I mean - season 1 didn’t feel fine imo. It almost made me quit the game

[warm plinth]

I do think they went a little overboard on the GCD thing

[undone sun]

i did quit, but i wasn't playing warr at the time

🙃

[warm plinth]

I would not have played warrior when I came back in BfA if IP was still on the GCD

[sage path]

Arms nerf week after week

[chilly brook]

wadu hek, hold up my vengeance sim they used steelskin pot.....

[sage path]

Every week when you got your triple traits stacked it got gutted

[chilly brook]

Idk man I was pumping in S1 it felt great

[waxen cradle]

I loved the whole its what is best for the health of the game so deal with it, and later they were like yeah we overdid it but that is how it goes

[chilly brook]

because it's devs making up problems

[waxen cradle]

lets try this and see how it goes... OH crap that didn't work lets try something else

[chilly brook]

it's a problem for the devs because it means they have one more factor in class balance

but it's not a problem for the player

Same thing with talent trees they got rid of them because it was more convenient for them to not have to keep coming up with new shit

[sage path]

Pretty much go hardcore or nothing.

[exotic spoke]

I mean - not being able to block ranged attacks
IP on GCD
Overall magic damage intake
Missing one of our best (since it wasn’t around)

All sucked donkey dick

[waxen cradle]

Well yeah hard to get past... SO what killed you dude.... UH a mob throwing rocks >_>

[sage path]

XD

That’s so true in high ML

Raging week

[waxen cradle]

^^^

[sage path]

Those rocks 1 shot ppl! We need to CC all the rock throwers before pull and kill separate.

[waxen cradle]

The dudes in Tol Dagor so much trigger

[sage path]

Just LoS them.

[waxen cradle]

true

[hasty nova]

sup guys

My guild is about to start Mythic Za'qul tonight. And i had a few questions.

The two tanks are me and a Monk

i was wondering if there is a general way that the MT'OT is done

is it better for me to primarily hold the boss and monk linked to tether

or opposite

and why

[strong forum]

Monk on boss cuz monk

And monk taunt gives movespeed

OT has nothing to do but adds and stay close to MT during tether

[hasty nova]

monk on boss cuz monk?

[strong forum]

Yes

Monk is op

He's gonna tether like 0 dmg to you

[hasty nova]

why ?

[strong forum]

Cuz hes a monk

[hasty nova]

why zero dmg through tether?

[strong forum]

Tether only transfers physical dmg from boss

And since monk doesn't take alot of dmg, he transfers most of it into stagger(which doesn't get tethered)

[hasty nova]

so will shield block up help me lower dmg from the tether too or no?

[strong forum]

No

[hasty nova]

so i should shield block only when aggrowing adds

[strong forum]

Yup

[hasty nova]

now i am wondering what sort of essences and talents i should take

[strong forum]

Basic talents and essences

Cof for boss dmg

VoP for pad

Crackling thunder for easier add grabbing

That's about it

[hasty nova]

i think i remember

fumeyko

saying he went defensive essensces for

za'qul

[strong forum]

That was before nerf

[hasty nova]

what was nerfed about boss do you know?

[strong forum]

Tether transferred all dmg

[hasty nova]

dmg/health or spells

[strong forum]

Now it's only physical

[hasty nova]

ahh

[strong forum]

No longer magical

So basically there's 0 dmg taken on the OT

[oblique garnet]

Fumeiyo was mt

Had dk OT

[strong forum]

I guess

[hasty nova]

alrighty so mostly i just need to pick up adds and stay close to tank

[strong forum]

Also where the fuck did he disappear to

[hasty nova]

probably taking a break during off season

[strong forum]

Classic bobbo now?

[undone sun]

who knows

[strong forum]

He hasn't killed azshara

[hasty nova]

after ya get CE a few times, perhaps sell a few runs. most people lay off until new patch stuff comes out.

oh what?

that IS STRANGE

[strong forum]

No he only killed zaq once

[hasty nova]

maybe his guild took a poop

a lot of times that will cause ppl to stop playing

[oblique garnet]

But yeah as OT on boss you can run anything you want these days and go full dps

Especially with monk

[hasty nova]

do tanks go into differnt realms ever?

[strong forum]

Yes

[hasty nova]

into fear with sumoners

[strong forum]

Your entire raid switches realms

During p4

[oblique garnet]

^

[worldly verge]

are there daily quests that give energy cells

[thorny laurel]

Quick question for M+, edict or urchin which one is better?

[oblique garnet]

@thorny laurel high keys use both

[thorny laurel]

Okay, well ill try to get Ashvanes trinket as well then 😄

Right now I use a 445 socketed inkpod

which is pretty decent offensively

but doesnt do shit defensively

but thanks @oblique garnet

[limpid pawn]

what's the wrost healer this week

pally?

[shell cloak]

disc also, based on how bad the grp is also

[warm plinth]

Resto shaman. They're the worst healer every week 😉

[exotic spoke]

Sigh

Disc isn’t an issue if you chain pull anyways. They have shit to hit so they can heal

[worldly verge]

noob question

does the charging station on mechagon spawn like once a day?

or it can spawn at any time

[warm plinth]

It's available on certain days.

Damn Waat, that's a hell of a proc