Have you just been using Devastator in M+ all this time?
#protection
warm plinth
warm plinth
Yeah having empty globals as a prot war must feel weird
distant crystal
idk what to do with my hands!
warm plinth
warm plinth
If you're on PC, you can type /tenor or /giphy, then a space, then a description of the gif you want and it'll pop them up
distant crystal
O_O
warm plinth
So I just typed /tenor I don't know what to do with my hands
distant crystal
gotchu fam
that titanforged edict really ground our MT's gears when i got it in an alt run
warm plinth
I hate you btw
distant crystal
😚
distant crystal
i wonder what my best combo for dmg would be
i guess gore and mere
phial seems like fools gold
i had it do a decent % in like one key ever
but it's usually around 1%
warm plinth
It's actually 410 madjay, not sure why it shows 400 there. Not that that's much better.
warm plinth
Only other trinket I have is a 430 
onyx vessel
warm plinth
Only thing I've had bad luck on though. Literally got 445 shield and 440 weapon in my first two M+ caches
azure silo
what food do i use on Prot warr ? Haste, crit ?
warm plinth
Feast for survival, whatever sims highest for damage
azure silo
alright thanks
sick sentinel
I use the cheapest one
terse wedge
So Vial of animated blood vs Jes howler
onyx vessel
Use crit 93 food
Shit is dirt cheap
Minnows and spare parts and some 1g per stack trash
sick sentinel
120 str, 80 str and then haste
distant crystal
i'd prob run the two seals
less haste but vers > mast imo and leech is always welcome
wild sandal
for prog on court, do i go some diffrent essences or just stick to VOP major and null, lucid minor?
i was thingking to go undying gift becuae i am taking to much damge when i tank the boss outside the bubble
distant crystal
null major is handy
for when you have to tank pashmar during the dome
but prob not required
distant crystal
and tbh if you're not using that i'd think that crucible major would be the play
for the boss dmg
terse dragon
Vers mastery is best stat
hallow phoenix
terse dragon
Vers for defensive and mastery for crit block
Go ripples in space major for big damage
distant crystal
troll warriors smh
hallow phoenix
Take the heroic leap talent and just roleplay as an arms warrior by heroic leaping out and charging in every 25 seconds
Get that minor proccing
strong forum
@wild sandal i just go with default essences, during zealous eruption if you're outside you can get through it with a well timed Shieldwall alone, call for an external if necessary
sick sentinel
@terse wedge double seals
terse dragon
Haste is bad stat for us
wild sandal
`ok, thank you @strong forum
terse dragon
You need to build ilvl then vers
Once you get vers, get ripples major aegis minor and crucible minor
What you guys think?
strong forum
Cow you have like 0.5 - 1 second after he starts channelling the bubble cast itself before taking actual dmg from the zealous, that's the ideal moment to pop SW
There's like the 4 sec pre channel
strong forum
In what world
Okay no
Lemme rephrase
What have we been preaching why haste is good
What's the core part warri is build around
terse wedge
Rage regenaration and lower cooldowns of shiedblock ?
terse wedge
Crit mastery it is
strong forum
Also solid choice
quiet crane
Yeah man haste made up by itf 100% bro
terse dragon
You want to crit shield slam
But then vers to buff edict
So you don't need to ip
Just use rage on revenge
strong forum
Mastery also makes shieldblock obsolete
terse dragon
Been playing prot for years
strong forum
So you don't have to waste rage on that
terse wedge
Sockets are useless right?
strong forum
Makes gear have less durability
Idk if that's worth
Holes = holes
Know what I'm saying
terse dragon
Hole in gear
terse wedge
We dual weild swords, sheds are useless
strong forum
K serious stuff aside, ima head to bed
terse wedge
We cannot die if they are already dead
terse dragon
Lol
strong forum
Grats
sick sentinel
grats!
warm plinth
Nome: "I'm going to bed"
Nome 25 minutes later: "Grats"
oblique garnet
Isnt that everyone here tbh
undone sun
Yup
worldly verge
ty
grand drum
Hes in bed looking at his phone for hours until he finally falls asleep
analog swift
i mean i dont even play prot anymore
and i hang out in this disc
❤
also, i know it's probably been beaten to death, but I think prot is gunna be really bonkers next tier, right now about even with monk, but I besides just the nerfs, the extra essence slots matter a whole lot more to warrior than monk that really only uses 3 essences
visions, lucid, null, cns, and sphere
oh my
hallow phoenix
We actually get more slots?
sick sentinel
ya
hallow phoenix
When do we get two major slots amirite
distant crystal
bote memebeam could you imagine
near ivy
keen plover
New to prot, i was tanking ad10 last night with dpsers 10 - 15 ilvls higher than me, and I wasn't able to hold aggro for a few mobs.. Pretty sure I had the rotation down ~80% for aoe.. Could ilvl and my lower dps be the issue?
undone sun
yes
grand spruce
returning to prot as well. Are Vison of Demise and Vial good as trinkets until i get something better?
my other options are a 410 Rezan, 425 idol and the pocket sized
hallow phoenix
What ilvl are the first two and what's in your pocket sized computational device
grand spruce
Vial is 440. and Vision is 420
hallow phoenix
Use vial for sure
grand spruce
actually nvm the pocket sized. i dont have the right cards arm
hallow phoenix
I'd probably use the 410 rezans over the vision
grand spruce
ok ill give it a go. thank you
keen plover
Thanks. Should I have warned my dpsers not to go ham?
stoic pilot
Do you have all your essence slots unlocked?
warm plinth
Neck level is important as well. Should go for 3 essence slots ASAP as a tank for the bonus threat. 65 is super quick if you try. Until then, and until you get at least a higher weapon, you’ll probably have to tell them to be careful.
stoic pilot
^
keen plover
Thanks for the responses! At neck lvl 61 now. OK, will do!
sick sentinel
I think the threat multiplier goes from 5.2 to 5.7 and then to 6.2
Correct me if I'm wrong
warm plinth
Don't think it gets that high. Isn't base 4.5 and then you get an extra .27 from neck?
I know it's 27% from the neck (9% for each essence slot) but I can't remember if that's the correct base.
rigid sinew
any advice on choosing between a 430 font, a 445 socketed inkpod, and a 440 gore
proven smelt
Anyone have a solid explanation guide of how IP works?
undone sun
what do you want to know, honestly don't find it too confusing
rigid sinew
m+ mostly
chilly brook
@proven smelt what is there to know? You have an absorb and half the damage that you take goes into that absorbs until it’s exceeded the amount of the absorb
hallow phoenix
And you can have an ignore pain shield of up to I believe 1.3 times the normal value?
chilly brook
Yes 1.3
hallow phoenix
So refreshing it when it's at 30% doesnt waste any, though in practice I've never had to care about that
undone sun
yeah, there's really no need to worry about wasting it
spending rage on IP while capped is much better than capping rage
sick sentinel
im currently ilvl 436 but i just found my first rezans eye but its 400, is it worth it to equip?
undone sun
depends more on your other options
sick sentinel
currently i have bloodthirsty urchin and edict right now
both 430
plus a socket 430 phial
marble wave
whats possibly the best essense setup for prot in m+ next season?) just looking for a point for our tank, we push like 21+ keys now +- and farm mid keys for gear
sick sentinel
Appreciate it
oblique garnet
essences most likely wont change for next season its also way too early to tell
Based on current PTR its gonna stay the same
chilly brook
@marble wave if you’re pushing keys and your tank is reasonably good he should do his own research....
worldly verge
hey guys, are there any quest req for vision of perfection?
besides the mechagon intro
warm plinth
No
Just have to make sure you've learned the previous rank before going for the next one
Like actually learned it at the forge
warm plinth
Yeah, 6 normal for R3, or 2 whatever and 2 HM
distant crystal
ok boys
got a nice little 3 option gear choice for ya
belts: 430 socket crit vers, crit heavy
430 haste mastery leech
haste heavy
430 crit mastery, crit heavy azshara belt
with the arcane dmg proc
what do
spice ferry
distant crystal
bruh
i can already tell you the
azshara belt will prob sim best but
what would jesus do
we got leech memes
we got crit vers socket memes
distant crystal
we got azshara 2 minute proc that can happen out of combat memes
spice ferry
defs leech for the memes
undone sun
let the meme die 😡
distant crystal
but like
it's haste heavy
does the meme + haste heavy not beat a socket?
also it's my first and only leech piece if that helps
i feel like this is really close
undone sun
honestly don't even need to mention leech, i would use it over the others
leech only has valuable over 2 of the same exact pieces
distant crystal
i mean the haste heavy leech piece will surely sim the worst of the 3 for pure dmg
oof
@fierce juniper esplain
i think i just joined some secret warrior discord meeting voice channel
and i briefly saw a top secret hidden voice channel that i got moved into
i want to be in the in group
fierce juniper
dw about it 
spice ferry
someones been caught out
distant crystal
distant crystal
undone sun
onyx vessel
spice ferry
nimble escarp
anyway to make a macro to intercept target fo target for udoras pistol shot?
/use [@targettarget, help] Intervene maybe thattle work
didnt work
formal grail
I'm feeling rage starved in m+ sometimes meaning it's hard to keep IP and SB up at the same time; should I just pull bigger? Also having issues with aoe threat despite using clap and revenge on pull (I'm 420 and the dps are 435+)
Have to add that I've been playing prot for all of 3 weeks 😅
ionic fern
You don't have to keep IP up all the time.
SB is your main mitigation tool.
loud burrow
dont try to keep up IP , thats what starving your rage
ionic fern
IP is there just to keep yourself from rage capping.
Also - are you running Anger Management + Booming Voice?
If so (and you should be) - remember to actually cast Demo shout as much as possible - it's 40 rage per cast with Booming Voice.
formal grail
Oh that is good to know!
ionic fern
And regarding threat..
Remember to use Avatar .
In general TC+Revenge is enough but if the DPS'ers are starting with the Azerite Beam before you can establish any threat they WILL get aggro and there's not a lot you can do about it unless you have Avatar for that pull.
formal grail
I suppose I really need to get VoP 😅
formal grail
Okay I need a hand then, every group I've joined fell apart after HK
brittle owl
by this point you should be able to bruteforce it tbh
just get high ilvl people so you can ignore mechanics
tight tree
for unit you have to do gauntlet though, cant bruteforce it
but that is hysterical ofc, bc it is so easy
on non HM especially
fair lark
Hey guys i'm new to prot and have a question regarding trinkets... right now i have razor coral 435, rezans 435, mechagon armor trinket 425 with socket and underrot tank trinket 430. What do you guys think i should use?
strong forum
Rezan and coral
Even if coral is hard to use in dungeons, its way better than what you have available
brittle owl
it's not that hard, although you'll get better mileage out of it in higher keys
strong forum
That's what I mean
fair lark
Hm, doesn't that make me a bit squishy?
brittle owl
trinkets don't make you significantly tankier or squishy
90%+ of your survivability is personal play
there are no trinkets in the game atm that will "save" you
especially not the ones you have available
this emote exists for a reason
hallow phoenix
When he said tank trinket I thought he meant vial
I forget about sporepods
Though I hear it's good in pvp
brittle owl
imagine not using cyclo blast and inkpod in pvp tho
hallow phoenix
Inkpod can be dispelled
hallow phoenix
My African turtle cleave comp has no room for a dk :(
Though next time I PvP as arms TSG it shall be
Did anyone get a nice titanforged doom shroom this week? Saw the WQ finally appear after like 5 months of it no showing
It sims as high as inkpod for me at equal ilvl
brittle owl
i stopped hoping for tf wq items in 8.0 when spyglass would've been uber
strong forum
TF is gone with 8.3 anyway
hallow phoenix
Confirmed?
strong forum
Let's hope that void forging is good
brittle owl
or w/e the crit proc one was from wq's
strong forum
Yes
hallow phoenix
Don't play with my heart
brittle owl
sauce?
strong forum
Ptr?
hallow phoenix
Explain it to us
strong forum
brittle owl
yes that isn't equivalent to 'confirmed'
hallow phoenix
I wonder if they're thinking of putting effects like those cursed rings have
+2% damage, some weird negative effect
Cause that would suck honestly
strong forum
I'd take that over TF any day of the week
And just equip gear that doesn't have that shit
hallow phoenix
Like aoe taunt when below 25% hp
strong forum
If corrupted stuff is the new TF, it's gonna be hella fun tbh
brittle owl
hopefully they are gonna do cool bonuses as well
hallow phoenix
Slap that on a ranged and forget about it
brittle owl
besides 2% dps upgrade
strong forum
Thing is, stuff that's not bland x% increase is very hard to balance
brittle owl
cuz as is, you're gonna fish for those that you can conpletely ignore the downsides of
strong forum
It's either too strong or too weak
hallow phoenix
I really like the CoS pants
brittle owl
or like, the CoS trinket
hallow phoenix
Undulating is good too
brittle owl
giga mastery, take damage from it
strong forum
TC was good too
strong forum
Too strong tho
brittle owl
unless tanking m+
hallow phoenix
TC?
brittle owl
treacherous covenant
hallow phoenix
Oh
brittle owl
i.e. free mainstat
hallow phoenix
I never dared use that in m+
strong forum
unless shit heals
brittle owl
for a warrior it didnt really matter though
flint wraith
Im thinking about making a prot warr, what are the top prios for quick and efficient gearing and essences?
hallow phoenix
Visions, cns, lucid are easy to get and quick
Then probably benthic for quick ilvl
flint wraith
cns? Conflict?
brittle owl
yes
hallow phoenix
Farm atal for a shield and rezans i guess
hallow phoenix
Yeah just thinking of which dungeons are best if you have no gear
flint wraith
xD
hallow phoenix
Wm, atal, ur come to mind for good trinkets
brittle owl
wm has second bis ST weapon as well
flint wraith
What trinket from wm?
Don't recall one from there
brittle owl
crit one
flint wraith
ahh
brittle owl
don't fuss over tanking trinkets tbh
the only sorta relevant ones are from the raid
even then, their use case is debatable
hallow phoenix
Doom shroom tho
flint wraith
Vision for major still?
brittle owl
yes
hallow phoenix
CoF in raid
brittle owl
unless raiding, that's when you want cof
unless add tanking gorgo
but rofl at that
flint wraith
Got monk for raiding
So basically just need it for blasting m+ and shizzle like that
But tyvm
hallow phoenix
Oh
You right
Probably best to roll your m+ cache as prot just to get a good weapon or shield even though you can get trolled by ritual bandages or worse
Umm, engi goggles are good for a quick helm
Does anyone use the table in pig boss room in WM to snap mobs?
timid saddle
Yes
timid saddle
Just like not having to wait for dogs to patrol and saves time imo
Depends on if you prefer on pulling stuff inside or outside
sick sentinel
I read "snap in the chicken too"
flint wraith
lol
sick sentinel
I had to go back and re-read that
strong forum
Snap in the chicken sounds nsfw
tight tree
i am out of loop, what is snap? a place where mobs glitch and teleport to you?
any guide somwhere where these points are? ;D
loud burrow
i dont know if there is a guide or smth, i just know atal stairs+middle & SotS Start
strong forum
A snap is when you have to jump ontop of surfaces that can't be reached by just walking, because then instead of running, to you aggro'd mobs then teleport to you.
If its a surface that you try to jump to, which however nobody can stand where you would just slide off, the adds would then teleport you to them, to prevent adds from bugging out and evading.
If that makes sense
For example if you try only slightly edge off of into the small green patches in atal, the adds would teleport you back to them.
warm plinth
@terse wedge For damage, sim it. For survival, the socketed piece.
warm plinth
Tells WCL to upload
WCL gets all the way through checking the log
WCL says it can't upload because it needs to update
🙃
warm plinth
Yeah
Though I imagine WCL's constant updates are to prevent people from doing shady things with logs maybe? Idk enough about the process.
wraith timber
hey guys i have a question for you...
i'm looking to getting into tanking full time (currently do it every once in awhile in M+ and H TEP but would be getting into mythic raiding probably next tier)
I've just realized that the bulk of my tanking experience has been on reactionary tanks playing blood and guardian for most things, most recently getting CE as a bear in BoD. How difficult is it to pick up proactive tanks (prot war/pally/vengeance) that require proper timing of mitigation? I've heard it's a lot more punishing and it's a bit daunting having realized that i've never done it before to a high level
what are your thoughts on this?
warm plinth
It'll be an adjustment, but as long as you read the guide and work toward improving yourself, it shouldn't be any harder than any other tank spec.
wraith timber
once you get into high M+ and mythic raiding, how difficult is shield block timing?
i've been hanging around prot pally discord and they're talking about timing sotr downtime with other cooldowns or letting sotr drop because they have a lotp ready
strong forum
Not very since you can get close to 100% uptime
But ye proactive tanking requires much more knowledge of what happens when
warm plinth
Yeah you can get close to 100% effective uptime between Shield Block charges and Last Stand with Bolster. During prolonged periods of tanking in M+ you can cover with Shield Wall if needed as well. We're not quite like paladins though, who have to use CDs to cover a lot more frequently than we do due to less uptime on their mitigation.
wraith timber
I see
warm plinth
Our CDs are typically used as part of the rotation, rather than to cover downtime (except for Shield Wall)
strong forum
There's alot of small things to figure out / to know in general
And just trial and error
Where you can delay your AM for a second or 2
warm plinth
There are times where it's okay to let Shield Block drop for a second as well. Just depends on the fight/pull
wraith timber
in M+ is the downtime between packs enough to basically always have shield block up for pulls?
marble cipher
Depends on how fast you chainpull 😄
In M+ though you can utilize some kiting or aoe stuns to allow you to regen shieldblocks (if needed)
With the right essences, you'll also almost always have Avatar up when you're going to engage a big pull, which gives a lot of mitigation as well, if you have the right traits (Bastion of Might)
warm plinth
If you have the right traits*
wraith timber
and this isn't related per say, but i know warriors do some crazy aoe dps but what about ST? which tank is the best tank to push damage once you overgear an encounter
marble cipher
That too, and even more important than Visions (which was what I was referring too)
wraith timber
in raid
marble cipher
Pure numbers say paladin if I'm not mistaken, warrior and monk are not that far behind though iirc.
warm plinth
I think the tanks are actually all pretty close in raids from looking at WCL. There's quite a bit of diversity in the top parses on most encounters.
Damage-wise
wraith timber
I'm basically working on figuring out what tank to bring into raid, considering my experience and my cotank is blood DK
I do a lot of M+ as well
marble cipher
Warrior is a safe bet tbf
Monk will almost always outshine any other tank on pure raid progress, but monks are taking a hit in M+ in 8.3 if patch goes live as it stands.
But, that doesn't make a warrior worse by a big margin for raids, and future raid encounters might still favor tank X or tank Y anyway
wraith timber
I have all tanks at 120 but druid (445), pally (435), and monk (430) are the only ones that are geared, my warrior and DH are like 380 and DK is 410
wraith timber
do you guys use visions in raids as well or cof like everyone else?
strong forum
Cof
marble cipher
CoF
strong forum
Haven't used VoP once
warm plinth
You would still use VoP as a minor probably
strong forum
This tier is all about dmg from external sources
warm plinth
Don't think you'd ever take it off entirely
stoic pilot
I like CoF / Nullification / Vision for raid
marble cipher
Haven't used VoP once
@strong forum for raids then I guess you mean?
marble cipher
kk
warm plinth
Oh, really? Interesting
strong forum
For people running 0 BoM I think cns Sims higher
warm plinth
Oh, that would make sense
strong forum
And benthics add into that aswell I think, cuz you'll have less overall stats that synergize with mastery
stoic pilot
If you meld in a pack, do you lose all threat you’ve gained entirely? Or just until you exit meld
warm plinth
Just until you exit
warm plinth
Yeah like...if you meld>TC, no one should even notice
Could potentially hit DPS though so yeah to be safe you'd warn them
stoic pilot
Yeah
Considering going nelf for fun just wanted to make sure I knew if I’d be killing people lol
warm plinth
Wouldn't that just be a bigger incentive? Who doesn't like getting their DPS killed?
stoic pilot
True
I’m tired of dying during death skips 😡
We did a key last night and had to invis pot 4x cause no rogue strats lmao
strong forum
Ye I think going full nelf group would be the biggest FeelsGoodMan ever
stoic pilot
Yeah I was thinking about it since our group is 4/5 nelf and sometimes 5/5 nelf (excluding me)
fathom talon
I would go back Alliance if not for vulpera
hallow phoenix
Bee mount
terse wedge
We will enjoy purging little furries, dont worry
warm plinth
You can go back to alliance when they remove faction restriction (let me dream)
frigid heart
would you guys equip a 430 haste/vers/socket ring or a 450 crit/mast ring
warm plinth
The 450 for survival. Can sim for DPS but I imagine the 430 would win for that with the socket.
warm plinth
tbf with the socket it's probably close enough it wouldn't make a meaningful differnce
From a survival standpoint
warm plinth
Your face is infinitely better
ivory barn
affix's arent ass this week
hallow phoenix
Just dont let your boomies bring trees
In fact just blacklist boomies they always fuck it up anyway 😠
ivory barn
🤣
"trying to decide which piece to buy next survival wise be like"
from the azerite 445 vendor
Chest piece?
hallow phoenix
What else is on the chest
strong forum
Shoulders
strong forum
Ye
ivory barn
other options on chest where Bloosport and CR
strong forum
Na the chest is good as is
hallow phoenix
I wanted to play with cns major since I just got r3 but this doesn't seem like the week for it
strong forum
I think it has OP or unstable flames
ivory barn
shoulders were BS and rezans. had that discussion a while back in here.
hallow phoenix
Do shoulders
hallow phoenix
Same piece?
ivory barn
C'thraxxi
hallow phoenix
Oh nice
ivory barn
i was trying to get that piece when i was Fury SINCE start of BFA
hallow phoenix
IF+swirly probably the way to go
If I remember the traits right
You now have 2 of the 3 extremely good parse pieces however
ivory barn
yeah, but then you have to talent Menace LOL
hallow phoenix
I do like IP in m+ though, and you don't need menace for it
One tclap breaks the fear
ivory barn
whenever i use IS in m+ i get yelled at, because mobs run all over the place
sometimes it doesnt
ivory barn
ok, ty
hallow phoenix
Gonna miss that bastion tbh
ivory barn
ahh shit 😢
hallow phoenix
But swirly isn't bad at all. You have huge crit procs now
hallow phoenix
Is this for raids
ivory barn
not really atm
i kept the other piece for raid lol
people hate staring at the gear in my bags, I prefer it aLL
🙂
yeah, hell no that aint for raid. I'd be getting trucked
warm plinth
hm, guess C&S isn't gonna be better than Aegis until I get r3 😦
At 4 targets Aegis r2 is 276 vers, C&S r2 fully stacked is only 270. I guess on bosses it'll be worse but the rest of the dungeon it should be better
warm plinth
Shows 54 on mine; guessing it probably scales with neck level?
hallow phoenix
It must
warm plinth
My war is 66 I think
hallow phoenix
Might depend on dungeon
warm plinth
Yeah true. Like KR C&S would be better for the most part
hallow phoenix
Exactly what I was thinking
ivory barn
um... that BoM piece might be needed Lol
hallow phoenix
Or siege where there's lots of mobs but they all die immediately
BoM is free IP now that I think about it
Cthraxxi gets me excited cause BiS for parsing
strong forum
imagine getting 3x cthraxxi in a row
when all you wanted was kraken
and then got it 🙂
warm plinth
I have helm of abyssal malevolence, lockjaw shoulders, and ashvane cuirass
But helm and shoulders are still 430; I'm like 8k short of my 2nd 445 piece
hallow phoenix
Lockjaw is BoM and if?
strong forum
thats a huge kick in the balls
warm plinth
Yeah, I believe so
strong forum
to try to replace abyssal
strong forum
hf never being satisfied unless its abyssal or sea brawler
hallow phoenix
Ashvane too
strong forum
well he has that on 445
hallow phoenix
Oh
warm plinth
Yeah ashvane is 445 already
hallow phoenix
So soon
hallow phoenix
I like them
strong forum
ye theyre decent
warm plinth
Bastion/Brace/UF is pretty good
strong forum
2nd best to get i think
warm plinth
Kraken aren't bad either. Lots of shoulders for me to feel okay about lol
hallow phoenix
Pretty sure there's more useful shoulders than helms
warm plinth
Yeah, bastion/ms/uf/bulwark
strong forum
forget about bulwark
warm plinth
Which I mean, bulwark is meh but
strong forum
thats less useful than longstrider
warm plinth
Oh it has bury the hatchet I guess which is pretty decent. But more decent when I can get my explosive VRs back 😠
I want ALL the absorbs
warm plinth
I really need trinkets on this character. 430 merektha and 410 overclock 🤢
strong forum
I'm saving for next patch :)
warm plinth
I'm not. Gonna be like 10 mil for a specific
hallow phoenix
Surely they'll inflate residuum again
strong forum
Obv
But I have full bis ( abyssal only being incredibly minor upgrade) so why bother
hallow phoenix
Do you raid
alpine pivot
Could tradewinds be worth taking if i cant get tripple bastion for m+?
alpine pivot
brace for impact
oblique garnet
brace for impact
cyan oar
I see the top dps prot warrs go devastator in raid, is that only with the zaquul axe and fury traits?
random urchin
BFI is free damage and block... I’d take BFI
strong forum
No everybody is running deva
oblique garnet
Eh not everybody
hallow phoenix
Everybody.
oblique garnet
im not
hallow phoenix
Nom said so
cyan oar
But still booming voice in dungs right?
strong forum
Ye bv always in dungeons
oblique garnet
Cant be fucked running devastator if i can do similiar damage with BV and take significantly less damage
hallow phoenix
Take less damage if the boss dies faster
strong forum
I use demo shout anyway on CD
I just got used to deva in raid so I just perma run it and cof
And I hate not Orange logging
ivory barn
Warfront Health Pool be like..... god prot warrior be haulin ass
broken isle
conflict & strife rank 3 or aegis of the deep rank 3 for m+?
analog swift
@warm plinth a little late but on my monk CnS MUCH more verse than rank 3 aegis in a motherlode (arguably the biggest pack sizes you'll pull).
hallow phoenix
Cns imo
broken isle
when the 4th minor slot unlocks in 8.3, might as well use both lol
hallow phoenix
That or lucid will be my go to for fourth slot
analog swift
or sphere as well
next patch is gunna be nutty for warriors
so many essences are good whereas rip my monk
sick sentinel
my setup would be lucid aegis and cns with vision major
hallow phoenix
I use sphere and cns atm
sick sentinel
but also new essences one is cheat death which isnt good
the other 2 i didnt had chance to try in ptr
analog swift
for anybody curious,
cns 2 uptime 19 ML
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YABwGkdX6rZ7cPQv#fight=5&type=auras&source=2&ability=304056
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YABwGkdX6rZ7cPQv#fight=2&type=auras&source=2&ability=298197
aegis rank 3
not sure how to make it to look uptime on 4 stacks or w/e
broken isle
I'll prolly have the same setup as Melva, unless the new essences are great too
hallow phoenix
I was hoping wowanalyzer would show more info on your logs @analog swift
warm plinth
@analog swift Yeah I was primarily just going off the numbers. I figure in most dungeons, it's reasonable to expect 4 mobs on you at any given time, which is where I got the 276 from Aegis r2. And then C&S r2 is 270 vers for me fully stacked. So going by the numbers it would appear that overall Aegis would be better. I don't have R3 of either essence unfortunately.
analog swift
kind of, but keep in mind that goes up and down and is really bad for boss fights
unless you're constantly keeping 4 mobs on you it's way worse
warm plinth
Ah that's true. I guess as mobs die I'd lose vers, and there will be at least some smaller pulls
analog swift
I thought the same thing and then realized that I kept a 5 buff for an entire ML pretty much
yeah and that was ML where you're pulling like packs of ten, so unless you're constantly chain pulling. but even then some dungeons make that difficult
i have no idea how to run queries on WL
warm plinth
I never have much luck with them but I'm okay at it. What exactly are you looking for?
analog swift
just trying to look at buff uptime % on aegis 4 stacks
also just got 1.4K last night so five weeks from now lets go cns!
brittle owl
what's your win rate?
if it's at least 50% you have like 1-3h of arena to go to get to 1600
visual plume
Dumb question potentially but did there used to be a pin for some IP and Shield Block Weak Auras?
undone sun
now in #268491842637660160
hasty nova
jade socket
sang fort grievous
undone sun
visual plume
So they are, ty, forgot that channel existed tbh
analog swift
@brittle owl it was about 50% I might push to 1.6 in a week or two. Kinda had to rope a friend to come do it with me and he wasn't super keen on it, was also doing it at like 2 am last night hahaha, really just making sure my warrior is good for next tier
wraith timber
just trying to get an idea of how tanks handle different types of mechanics from bosses.
How do prot warriors handle shadow of zul on high fort weeks?
How about last boss KR on high tyrannical keys?
What about orgozoa boss tanking?
wraith timber
lol
ebon hound
real hard
wraith timber
that's how i normally handle it on my guardian
brittle owl
or you just kite
or use a brez as a resource/have a dps taunt for a bit
its the same as any other tank really
except maybe brew
😂
wraith timber
what about the other 2 scenarios?
brittle owl
orogozoa you want to avatar and last stand at the beggining
maybe an external if you don't have BoM's
then it's just shield block
wraith timber
sorry not a warrior, BoM?
brittle owl
bastion of might
gives mastery with avatar
and free ip, but the mastery is what makes it stronger
the more traits you have, the more you'll crit block during avatar
wraith timber
I see
grand drum
King dazar use shield block for each combo
wraith timber
i get it, i just know those are the places where I really feel scared mostly when tanking (at least the ones that come to mind right away) and just wanted to get some insight about how others might handle it
trying to decide what tank to reroll lo
analog swift
warrior is pretty straightforward you just have to know the mob biggest thing for prot is that it's nearly impossible to have 100% uptime on shield block, so let's say your shield block expires after a blade combo you want to make sure you refresh it before the NEXT combo and not "waste" it
wraith timber
yea i'm used to guardian and having 100% uptime on IF is pretty easy so i'm wondering how difficult it would be to make the transition to warrior
floral sphinx
It won’t be difficult you would just have to get used to tracking your mitigations now
warm plinth
The immediate thing you'll notice is that we take way less damage than pretty much any other tank when the damage is blockable. Especially if you have Avatar up with Bastion of Might traits (which means more crit blocks). Any ability that is scary for other tanks is also scary for us, IF we don't have Shield Block up (and it's blockable). So you want to prioritize SB uptime during those attacks.
Things that are magic will hurt us like they hurt anyone else (e.g. azerite shot, shadow barrage from Zul, 3rd/4th boss of ML)
wraith timber
something i haven't heard much about is ignore pain, how often is that used and for what?
warm plinth
It's used frequently. Think of it more as a rage dump than as something you need to cast as a priority.
wraith timber
gotcha
chilly brook
and whenever you have extra rage so you don't rage cap
wraith timber
does it count at AM?
chilly brook
Block>IP though
warm plinth
We don't have any AM checks, so it makes no difference. But no, it's not AM as far as AM checks go.
wraith timber
gotcha
chilly brook
Well I won't complain with this
warm plinth
The only thing you should prioritize IP over in the grand scheme of things is Revenge without a proc (which makes Revenge free)
chilly brook
440 socket butchers block is nice
floral sphinx
Gratz
wraith timber
is IP on gcd?
warm plinth
Which sounds like you wouldn't use it much, but it's off the GCD and is one of only three things we have to spend rage on; one being Shield Block, one being Revenge, and one being Ignore Pain.
wraith timber
lol
floral sphinx
Nope
warm plinth
Yeah
wraith timber
IP is only physical damage though right?
warm plinth
No, it's all damage
chilly brook
On a side note....
There is a whole section dedicated to IP on the icyveins guide
warm plinth
Though I would take the overcapping thing with a grain of salt, mainly because you're GOING to overcap IP at some point.
floral sphinx
But if you have BoM don’t refresh IP when avatar is coming back up
warm plinth
Honestly I wouldn't think that much about IP. That's min/maxing and is not really something that's going to matter in the long run.
wraith timber
so on something like shadow of zul or 34d/4th boss ML, is IP not enough if its all damage?
chilly brook
I mean Zul is gonna fuck you regardless of what tank you are
warm plinth
But 3rd/4th boss of ML you can forsake SB for IP since it's all magic.
floral sphinx
Your probably gonna want to chain CDs
warm plinth
Yeah, for Zul you basically chain CDs, use all available externals, and then as a last resort you run like a bitch toward the 3rd boss room
chilly brook
I mean really prot isn't hard
warm plinth
You'll probably make it harder by overthinking it haha
chilly brook
It's just a mentality shift for people who aren't used to being a proactive tank
They put too much thought into it
warm plinth
What tanks do you already play Nesh?
floral sphinx
I think Druid
tame garden
🐻
wraith timber
I've played guardian most of this expansion and last expansion but I've played monk and pally to an extent the past month or so
you are correct
🐻
chilly brook
When in reality it's as simple as this:
Is there blockable damage about to hit me? I shield block if yes and IP with extra rage to further reduce damage intake
If no, I prioritize IP
Is shield block on CD? If yes use Last Stand or Shield Wall
distant crystal
use last stand liberally as soon as you deplete sb charges
and it'll be back up before ya know it
block errthang
chilly brook
We literally eat our defensive cooldowns like candy since they get reduced by rage spent anyways
and there's no cap on that reduction
floral sphinx
Yes LS is part of your rotation
wraith timber
also how important is shield ilvl? is it as important as weapin ilvl for melee dps?
chilly brook
huge
warm plinth
It's your most important slot
chilly brook
most important item
floral sphinx
BLOCK
chilly brook
block stat is very important
wraith timber
well that might make sense.. I've been really worried about this because while playing my pally i've felt unusally quishy. but my pally is about 430 ilvl with a 370 shield... might explain things
warm plinth
Weapon ilevel is just as important for us as DPS as well. It impacts all of our damaging abilities and increases IP size as well.
distant crystal
shield ilvl is p huge for paladin too
but pally will normally feel more squishy than a prot warrior all else equal
chilly brook
pally is squishy to begin with though
warm plinth
Yeah, probably not quite as important but still very noticeable if you have a bad shield.
wraith timber
interesting
warm plinth
I play a prot paladin so I don't have to imagine XD
wraith timber
I think I'm going to invest time in my warrior
distant crystal
umm victory rush hello
chilly brook
If I can't block it I Reflect it big brain plays
undone sun
hello
wraith timber
what ilvl would you recommend for going into 10s first time?
chilly brook
This is why I'm plat in Siege
distant crystal
415ish?
wraith timber
my warrior is like 380 😄
warm plinth
If you have a good shield, you could do +10s at like 400 pretty easily
wraith timber
how about mechagon? since i need that visions
chilly brook
with a 390 shield
warm plinth
Mechagon I always go to the high end if you're pugging
chilly brook
Mechagon is all down to doing the mechanics
warm plinth
Since pugs are generally terrible at it
But you do need Vision as soon as possible, so idk. 415ish should be fine for you but it won't be enough to carry the group if they suck.
wraith timber
alright ill spend some tme on warrior this week and see how it compares to pally/monk/guardian
chilly brook
Tbh you're not gonna carry a group to begin with in Mechagon
floral sphinx
I haven’t touched mechagon since I got rank 3 lol
Warriors are better then pally and guardian combine
wraith timber
Why’s that
floral sphinx
Better then monks is some areas
undone sun
lets not get into feelings
warm plinth
They all have their own strengths and weaknesses
wraith timber
Lol but why do you say that?
chilly brook
I mean for starters it is the objectively best designed class in the game at the moment
🙂
warm plinth
If I'm carrying people I prefer to do it on my paladin than my warrior because I have oh shit buttons if they screw up.
chilly brook
build rage to spend rage to reduce cooldowns to pump more damage and gain more rage
undone sun
don't think you know what objectively means
ebon hound
now here im just going to object, prots dps rotation is making me sleepy
chilly brook
I do Thyme
warm plinth
No tank DPS rotation is particularly engaging to me, but I like the feel of pressing warrior buttons more than most.
chilly brook
There's more to a class design than just their dps rotation 🤔
warm plinth
Hearing the slams and the thunderclaps and shit is cool
floral sphinx
It’s as simple as this warriors are the tankiest tanks and they deal high amount of dmg and their CDs are reduce by spending rage which you are always spending rage which means more avator 💪🏾
chilly brook
But let's actually get into the things that I can truly say are objective
ebon hound
On a somewhat related note, you guys like pressing Revenge? i feel like that ability has the most potential for improvement thematically.
floral sphinx
On procs
warm plinth
I do not like pressing Revenge. It's equally as unfun to press as Devastate.
warm plinth
Yeah with such a cool name for the spell, it could be more badass
I think it'd be cool if they could make spikes shoot out of your shield or some shit for Revenge. That'd be neat
chilly brook
Prot:
- highest physical damage reduction in the game, and take the least amount of damage in most encounters when compared to most tanks
- IP is one of the most reliable forms on magic damage reduction in the game, on top of having a spell reflect available every 25 seconds (my cd time might be off)
- highest aoe damage of the tanks
- cooldowns that cover your gaps and reward you for playing well and not wasting rage
floral sphinx
When i revenge I feel like I’m pimp slapping everyone in front of me lol
warm plinth
Yeah I mean I still press it. I just don't enjoy it like I do some of our other abilities.
chilly brook
Oh
floral sphinx
You can be a Druid and swipe everything lol
chilly brook
I forgot
warm plinth
Thrash is the only druid ability I like to press.
wraith timber
Let’s just say this:
I like guardian because it feels tanky even in the wrong hands and spammable aoe to help with snap threat
I like monk because it’s stupid easy and has a lot of mobility that I abuse often
I like paladin because it brings a lot of group utility and having DPS cool downs is relatively engaging
I don’t like guardian because it’s mobility is limited and it can feel spammy especially in aoe
I don’t like monk because the buttons don’t feel meaningful when pressed and also when things go downhill I don’t feel like I can turn it around easily without support from the healer.
I don’t like paladin because it feels squishy at times and without horse it’s practically a DK in terms of mobility
chilly brook
Our block is infinitely better than any other classes block because crit block can happen
I mean you basically have spammable aoe with prot
And it's much more effective
wraith timber
Gotta take a work call, I’ll be back in a bit
floral sphinx
I feel like you saying monks are stupid easy means your playing him wrong lol just me tho
undone sun
it's definitely easier compared to other tanks
tame garden
Most forgiving
undone sun
without a doubt
chilly brook
Monk is stupid easy.....
brittle owl
very low skill floor
terse wedge
Isn't blood Dk the easiest?
brittle owl
and not that high skill ceiling
chilly brook
You don't even have to play properly to be a passable tank.....
warm plinth
No
undone sun
blood definitely is not
floral sphinx
Dk is easy lol
tame garden
I would put druid and monk both easier than blood
brittle owl
DK you can get fucked by improper planning
warm plinth
I think DK is one of the harder tanks to play halfway decently
chilly brook
@terse wedge I can literally sit there and turn my back to the boss and not even use ISB and the healer can deal with it
warm plinth
People call DK a "reactive" tank spec but it's only reactive by design, not by playstyle
terse wedge
I never played brewmaster monk myself so I can't judge
I mostly play Blood DK or Prot Warrior
chilly brook
Sorry meant to tag @floral sphinx with that
terse wedge
Tried prot Paladin but I found it disgustingly boring
chilly brook
Monk is the most forgiving tank spec in the game hence why it is the easiest and it also doesn't have that much of a skill ceiling either
brittle owl
dk and vdh may seem easy compared to other tanks if you're doing easy content
since they literally cant die in easy enough content
warm plinth
Yeah, I'd agree with that
brittle owl
i.e heroic raiding and 10 keys, for instance
but they're one of thr harder tanks to play effectively in relevant stuff
warm plinth
But to be good in relevant content, DK requires a lot of pre-planning
brittle owl
paladin barebones is boring and easy yes
floral sphinx
I mean yea due to stagger your right I guess cause I’m still new to monks
brittle owl
but it has a lot of intricacies and nuance
chilly brook
As an aside, I currently raid on a BrM as much as I hate it and have mained the spec for the last 2 xpacs
warm plinth
You still have to know what you're doing to be good Wil, but you can be passable on a monk and not have a fuckin clue XD
brittle owl
plus it has the only relevant talent tree out of all tanks tbh
as long as you keep isb up on a monk
70% of the job is done
warm plinth
Yep, basically
chilly brook
Monk is literally this simple
warm plinth
I actually really enjoy some of the monk abilities though. It's just that most of them don't feel like you're doing anything.
chilly brook
Keep ISB up, if you notice healer is putting in extra effort purify
warm plinth
Like Keg Smash and BoF are really fun to press
brittle owl
no tank is braindead, unless you actively look for playing in a braindead style
theres a lot of shit you can do on monk
chilly brook
I mean monk is pretty braindead
warm plinth
But BoS and Tiger Palm are boring af
brittle owl
just that it is relatively unnecesary
terse wedge
That might explain why I saw ilvl 420 monk tank 12 key with no issues
brittle owl
you can tank 12's at 370ilvl on any tank
warm plinth
I mean, a 420 should be able to tank a 12 with no real issues
brittle owl
you could do 18's on any tank at 420
people conflate the importance of ilvl way too much in m+
esp in irelevant scenarios
warm plinth
People tend to over-require because it can heighten the chance for success.
brittle owl
the real kicker is
warm plinth
e.g. they feel that you had to do harder things to get the higher ilevel, so there's a better chance of you being better. Which may or may not end up being true.
brittle owl
you'll have an easier time tanking azshara mythic at 410 on a monk than any other tank at 445
warm plinth
Just how people think
brittle owl
in raids it might be relevant
but in m+ it def isn't
esp for the low to middling range
floral sphinx
Ilvl does not describe the player skill that’s a fact
brittle owl
in m+ it doesn't even describe required throughput
highest range of keys not withstanding
daring marlin
Second 10 back after 5 months and a good samaritan gave me this
fuck sockets this game is dumb
warm plinth
My demon hunter's RNG is broken
He has a 455 vers/haste/socket ring, 455 crit/mast ring, 450 vers/haste gloves, and a 450 dice. And only one of those came from a cache; the rest were from dungeons lol.
lime wing
how good are sockets for prot? should I equip a 445 or a 440 with socket (considering it's the same item)
chilly brook
All my trinkets have sockets on my warrior
¯_(ツ)_/¯
@lime wing simple answer
What nets you more stats overall
chilly brook
There isn’t a but
lime wing
should I count Stamina and Armor aswell?
chilly brook
Yes
chilly brook
👍🏻
Granted
You can be at a point where you’re comfortable dropping some armor and steam for more DPS but tbh in that case you’re probably min maxing over 100 DPS
daring marlin
sockets are mostly super busted on rings/trinkets
chilly brook
So it’s probably just a wash at that point between the extra survivability and the DPS
daring marlin
cuz rng sockets are super cool design
wraith timber
sorry stepped away for a bit, but what i meant by monk being super easy is as others pointed out... the skill floor is really low compared to other tanks, I know it's capable of some crazy things but barebones, it's pretty simple
lofty wedge
With the right trinkets brew doesn’t even need to purifying brew anymore, just Ironskin and win. Definitely easy
tropic star
so arcane jolt is dodge/parryable on azshara?
warm plinth
Yes it is
undone sun
yes
warm plinth
exotic spoke
@lime wing I wouldn’t consider sockets at all for weapons / shields
sick sentinel
When do I get a leech gem
warm plinth
subtle copper
hello, what azerite traits are use in m+?
warm plinth
3x Bastion of Might, 1x Deafening Crash, 2x whatever
Brace for Impact, Iron Fortress, Meticulous Scheming, Swirling Sands, Blood Rite, etc etc
subtle copper
oh ok so still going on time BOM
ty I only need to change my time BC then thank you
"3 time"
warm plinth
Nice
crystal dirge
not exactly prot, but has anyone had an issue with the whole party dcing from keystones and it resetting?
has been occuring quite often in the past 1-2 weeks
hallow phoenix
Not at all
blazing condor
same never had that hapen
sick sentinel
435 breastplate with BOM vs 450 breastplate without BOM?
hallow phoenix
450 for survival
undone sun
Hard mode achievement to get R4 VoP