protection

[ionic fern]

Nvm, i actually have 1% versa on my m+ gear. 😂

[hushed creek]

damn,thats so difrent thinking. There is no crit on my gear at all.

[ionic fern]

3% in raid iirc.

[hallow phoenix]

What's a reasonable ilvl drop for rings for better stats?

[ionic fern]

Crit/haste are really-really good for m+ defensive AND offensive wise.

[hallow phoenix]

10?

I have a 430 crit haste ring that I'd love to wear again but I feel like dropping a 450 vers crit ring is a mistake

[ionic fern]

I'd stick with 450 in this scenario.

[toxic tapir]

how much ilvl is a socket worth really

[sweet summit]

Depends on the peice of gear it is on

[toxic tapir]

generally speaking tho?

rings vs trinket vs the rest

[sweet summit]

Rings id say 10, maybe 15
Trinkets is pretty 🤷 if you have a 440 with socked vs a 430 rezan or block or something, is personally take the latter. You have to evaluate the trinkets more than other pieces.
Other id say 15 ilvl on wrists, 10 on cloak, 5 on gloves, belt and boots even legs. But someone could correct me if im wrong, im no god. But this is, like the "rule", i use

[strong forum]

I'd value sockets on ring around 15-20ilvl tbh

No way in hell would I use a 455 without socket over my 440+socket

Same as I personally would never use a non-haste ring, it's too much haste to be lost imo

Unless you have enough haste, that is

[sweet summit]

Never enough haste

[strong forum]

I mean I could technically run rezan+3x OP+rng+ms

If everything procs that's like 160% haste

[sweet summit]

Is that claps every GCD inside avatar?

[strong forum]

You need 200% for that

And at that point you're ping-capped

[sweet summit]

:(

[strong forum]

Ye.

Same as glimmerdin is capped by ping

[sweet summit]

I dont know how glimmerdin works so idk

[strong forum]

It's disc priest on meth

Pretty much

[sweet summit]

Lmao nice

[livid kite]

I need to share. I've been a priest (healer) for 13 years. I recently rerolled to prot warrior, and I feel reborn. It. Is. Awesome.
Ty.

[ionic fern]

[toxic tapir]

uhm what about benthic with socket and good effect, when do you want to replace that?

[sweet summit]

For pure damage, any time it simms higher

[ionic fern]

Benthic is used only for DPS purposes since their low ilvl and offensive oriented effects are inferior to the stat increase provided by non-benthic higher ilvl gear.
So sim yourself.

If you want to go for a more defensive route then just pick the higher ilvl item.

[toxic tapir]

thing is, i wasted all my pearls on alts, as I am almost full 445 rn. Not sure if it worth farming it up

considering my guild is struggling with dps on ashvane

[strong forum]

Well, you're not gonna make the difference as tank going with benthics

It's probably a CD usage / uptime thing

Not to mention you can still do 30k+ dps without benthics

[ionic fern]

Use r3 null for a easy extra 2k DPS on Ashvane.

If you already aren't.

Also - be sure no one blows their CD's at the start of the fight and keep them for the burn phase.

[brittle owl]

essences and cyclo will make the biggest difference in terms of dps

benthics aren't that huge for tanks as they are for dps

[strong forum]

I mean full benthic+socket is like 4-5k dps.
Just from equipping them, so that's a thing still.

That's the thing with benthics, it's just equip and press some buttons, and it'll happen automatically, you don't even have to play well to get that dps

[slim oasis]

Yo Warrriors! Need some help on a trinket

Should I use this?

Merektha's Fang

[sweet summit]

Fang bad,410 rezan is way better

[still sail]

@livid kite same reborn here. War show us the way 🙏

[brittle owl]

hello, fang isn't that bad, dont sell it, it pumps

def dont use it on a serious key

[strong forum]

You can use it to fuck around with

But not to be used in serious content

That's the best way I can phrase it

[brittle owl]

the downside of not blocking is deadly on something relevant

but 10-15 it's aight to use

[slate apex]

Is their a Haste cap for prot?

[strong forum]

Around 200%

[slate apex]

so just stack the shit out of it then? lol

[brittle owl]

yes

[exotic spoke]

But don’t sacrifice Ilvl for it

[remote vale]

guys, what can i do to make this week easier in terms of surviving as prot? i did 3 packs fine in freehold at start, but the rest was just sloppy, pre used SW just before pulls and had everything running, no threat problems, but i keep spiking and my healer didnt really seem like he could manage whilst also healing the rest of the dps?

i have trackers for shield block and IP so they weren't down at all

[strong forum]

The 1st pull in FH is the hardest in the dungeon just at the entrance, after that the only time where you could chunk would be the casters just free casting on you

But in general this week is incredibly high tank dmg so don't get discouraged, teeming fort quaking is not to be underestimated, shit hurts

One of the hardest weeks in pure tank dmg to deal with

[hallow phoenix]

Trying to use shield slam procs as they come up at 100%+ haste is a nightmare tho

[exotic spoke]

It’s hard to give accurate advice with out logs. In general though be sure to cycle your cooldowns, call for externals, etc.

Your group also needs to be on point with CCs / interrupts and not DR them at the same time by using them at the same time.

Lastly, if you did the three pull at the beginning and then struggled it’s likely partially mental because you took it for granted and thought it was going to be easy. Stay focused and communicate clearly who is interrupting / CCing what. Know when your healer is drinking and when you can pull bigger due to CDs being up

[zealous shell]

I'm digging that last paragraph

That's a really good point

[exotic spoke]

People underestimate psychology, morale, and emotional influences on performance

Confidence is good - don’t second guess yourself. But arrogance / cockiness is going to get you into trouble

[strong forum]

Also that triple pull is a nightmare with a resto shaman, cuz no poison or disease dispell :))

[exotic spoke]

Yeah - but they did that without a problem so it shows they can do it

[strong forum]

So you're gonna die 100%, 90% of the time atleast once

[exotic spoke]

Did he say rsham btw?

[warm plinth]

No

[strong forum]

No it's just me ranting

Cuz im stuck with rsham

[exotic spoke]

F

[warm plinth]

But they can cleanse...

Hex in KR 😄

[exotic spoke]

Tremor totem the fears in AD

[warm plinth]

^ that too

[ionic fern]

They can Ankh ez

[warm plinth]

Does rsham have earth ele as well?

[strong forum]

I know about everything an rsham brings to m+

[exotic spoke]

^* good for death skips

Sick dps when they don’t have to heal giggle

[warm plinth]

Shut up Nome. We’re trying to make you feel better

[strong forum]

Has been exclusively my healer since 8.1

[ionic fern]

Drop Spirit Link on everyone on grevious week.

👀

[warm plinth]

So we can all have grievous!

Yayyyy

[exotic spoke]

Lol

[strong forum]

Spirit link ignores necrotic aswell

[exotic spoke]

Ok that’s sick

But you could just dwarf it off

[strong forum]

I wish

The raid healer essence

Also ignores necrotic

BTW

It's broken

AF

[exotic spoke]

I think they fixed that

This week

[strong forum]

Idk but the essence alone

Did over 7mil healing

In keys

It's fucking insane

It's gonna be very fucking good for shamans

In ST dungeons

[warm plinth]

Too bad it’s a really good essence for a bad m+ healer

[strong forum]

Like KR, FH, Siege

Atal

For those its insane

[exotic spoke]

I mean - unless you’re pushing high keys it doesn’t matter what you bring

I know we all know that - just saying Incase someone else sees this conversation

[strong forum]

It won't matter until 18s

Past that, shaman really falls off

Really quick

Cuz he just can't output enough tank healing and doesn't have poison dispells

Hopefully deluge talent change will fix that next patch

[warm plinth]

I just don't know why they would give a healer just a curse dispel and nothing else

That's dumb af

Even druids who dispel curses have an actual useful dispel

[strong forum]

I don't know why they think it's a good idea to have poisons that deal unhealable damage

I don't know why they think it's a good idea to have more mechanics on adds than on bosses

Bfa dungeon design is horrible and extremely unforgiving compared to Legion, when m+ was peak fun

[warm plinth]

Probably because you can use more utility spells on adds than on bosses

[calm lynx]

i'l be totally honest. I really enjoy Bfa dungeons. they're fun. exceot of kings rest. fuck that place

[warm plinth]

I mean, I think Legion was more unforgiving, at least for the average player

[calm lynx]

*except

[strong forum]

Legion was fun cuz of huge fucking pulls

[exotic spoke]

I honestly disagree Nom. I think it’s better.

Trash doesn’t feel like a chore - but an actual challenge. Not as many one shot mechanics that are basically unavoidable

[strong forum]

Where all that mattered was dmg

Which made many more classes viable

[exotic spoke]

So just mongoloid - got it

I’d rather some skill / challenge be involved

[calm lynx]

1this

[strong forum]

The challenge in my mind should be output, not utility

I like that way more

[warm plinth]

The problem is that output is not challenging

Doing damage has never been hard in this game

[strong forum]

According to pugs, it is

[exotic spoke]

I think we’re at a point where mechanics and output matter and I like it

[warm plinth]

Well, everything is hard for pugs

[strong forum]

I might be biased cuz I play with mongol people who 100% rely on me and don't know /don't care enough

But fuck me Legion was so much better to just blast and not give a fuck

[warm plinth]

Yeah but Legion you also had bosses that would be unkillable if you made a mistake

[exotic spoke]

That just felt boring after a bit to me Nom

[warm plinth]

We're getting to that point now in BfA but

[strong forum]

I like to blast music at max volume and go ham

[warm plinth]

It was far more common in Legion

[strong forum]

Can't do that on bfa

Whatsoever

[warm plinth]

And at lower levels

[exotic spoke]

Communication is good

[strong forum]

Bfa is 100% tryhard

[exotic spoke]

I’m ok with that

I like challenges

[warm plinth]

That's the appeal of M+. Having to interrupt this, stun that, move for this

[strong forum]

Complete opposite for me, I want diablo like dungeons

[warm plinth]

It's mentally engaging and challenging

Then play Diablo

lol

[strong forum]

I did

[exotic spoke]

He beat me to it

[strong forum]

Every season

[warm plinth]

I like that feel of Diablo too. It's cool to just go in and smash things with massive numbers everywhere on my screen. It's fun.

[exotic spoke]

People complain the game is too easy already. Let’s not make it easier

[warm plinth]

But it's not how I want dungeons in WoW to be

[strong forum]

Islands had potential

To be just that

[exotic spoke]

To be what?

[strong forum]

But they ruined it with obnoxious amount if cc

Diablo grinding

[warm plinth]

I mean, treat islands the same way you treat Diablo grifts

If you go in and see the shitty mobs, you leave and reroll

[exotic spoke]

Oh - if you’re CCing in islands I think you’re doing it wrong

[strong forum]

Huh

I'm talking 13sec roots

Into 8sec stuns

Into another 13sec root

From adds

That ruins islands

So much

[exotic spoke]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[strong forum]

Just remove stuns and roots from islands, and I'll happily slam them

[warm plinth]

It ruins diablo dungeons too. Staying in islands with those mobs is like going into a grift and seeing every mob with arcane and waller and staying lol

[strong forum]

Na in diablo you just move out of it

And kill it anyway

[exotic spoke]

I just do pvp islands now

You do the same here lol

[strong forum]

Can't move out of roots can you

[exotic spoke]

Pvp islands are easymode - whomever is the better pver wins

[warm plinth]

I can't say I have a ton of experience in islands but I've always found that 99% of the CC in them is avoidable

[exotic spoke]

Avatar, dwarf; trinket, dispels, so much shit to break them

[strong forum]

Dispels

What dispels

[exotic spoke]

You can avoid a lot of the mechanics

[strong forum]

What trinkets

[exotic spoke]

If you’re doing pvp islands* trinket out of it

Roots are often telegraphed too Nom

[strong forum]

Not if you pull 300 mobs

Then it's kinda hard to see

[exotic spoke]

Same with the stuns / damage / daze / incaps

[strong forum]

Ykno

I'm not pulling pack by pack

[exotic spoke]

Then don’t pull 300 do two pulls of 150

[strong forum]

Im not saying I have trouble with doing islands

I'm saying it's not fun

[exotic spoke]

They can’t make something that caters to everyone.

Some people’s style isn’t going to mesh with whatever content. Ironically people complain about still being able to mongo pull now and it’s not big enough for a few people

I enjoy pvp islands but I get satisfaction from screwing over my opponents

Haven’t stepped into any other island in months - probably the better portion of 6 months

[zealous shell]

What essences are people rocking this week for m+?

[strong forum]

Is there scaling in pvp Islands like in bgs or Arena?

Or can I just stomp plebs

I'd say the usual @zealous shell

[exotic spoke]

VoP major, null, Aegis - as a starting point.

If I had CNS rank 3 I’d use that over null.

Also debating undying major VoP and aegis minors

I think there is some scaling maybe? Mobs seem to be easier than in mythic islands - and against a lot of comps I feel unkillable Nom

[zealous shell]

I've been using supp instead of null. I'll try switching it up

[exotic spoke]

Like legit - my other two team members break off and keep clearing shit / gathering azerite and I tie up the three opponents for a while

I like null for the magic damage - which is deadly at high keys. It’s not ideal but I don’t have CNS at r3 yet

[strong forum]

The biggest issue with m+ is, I have to rely on my teammates to not die

And I'm biased in having shit teammates who don't know enough

I have to hold their hands with every small thing

[zealous shell]

The clap root is that big of a deal at high keys huh?

[strong forum]

It's bad

[warm plinth]

Sounds like a healer problem to me

[strong forum]

You want the minor @zealous shell not the major

[zealous shell]

Right lol

[warm plinth]

He said to use it over null, not VoP

It's for the vers

[zealous shell]

Yeah my bad lol

[strong forum]

R3 cns is 420 vers

Perma

How is, me having to tell my dps literally to interrupt and cc and what not, a healer issue

[warm plinth]

I was kidding

[exotic spoke]

@zealous shell I would use CnS as a minor. Undying or VoP as a major

[warm plinth]

I mean did you ever watch high key videos in Legion with voice chat? They were calling out interrupts and CCs as well

Except you had dumber shit too like having to have melee LoS fuckin trash mob auto attacks like Shoot in BRH

Because it'd one shot them

[exotic spoke]

Everyone in my group calls out what CC / interrupts they use

Roots, fear, stuns, kick, knock back, vortex, etc

I call out my reflects

It’s a matter of knowing who is handling it next.

[warm plinth]

Yeah, coordination is not a new concept to M+. Maybe you could pull bigger in Legion but you still had to be coordinated to not die while doing it

[exotic spoke]

“Reflecting next - don’t kick”. “Stunning once tides is gone.” “Kicking next frostbolt” etc

“Don’t touch enchanted- it’s vortexed”

Just as important for us to know when our DH goes off ahead of us to reset the enchanted with meld and drop energy by about 40

At any high level content communication is crucial. Arenas, RBGs, raids, m+, whatever

[strong forum]

Ye im telling you, my people don't care enough

[exotic spoke]

Being in a Skype call of 10 people for RBGs where everyone is talking and picking out what you need to - you learn to do it

Then change the people or change the people

[strong forum]

I'm the only one doing it

[warm plinth]

That sounds like you need a new group, not Blizzard needs to change M+

[exotic spoke]

Your goals / desires don’t align with theirs and it’s causing you to not have fun

So you can change their behavior (the first option in change the people) or you can get a new group (change the people)

[strong forum]

I have fun for my weekly 15-18 key, then I don't touch the game :)

Fuck pugs

[exotic spoke]

I’m not saying pug it. Start a new group with like minded people

Find people that want to do as well as you do and communicate like you do

You’ll probably find that you enjoy it a lot more

[strong forum]

Lemme give you an example of what person I am

I played the game alone for 4 expansions

Cuz I cba finding people

So me even having a guild is insane

[exotic spoke]

Then, and I’m going to put it bluntly, maybe this game isn’t for you?

At its core, though it’s not as strict as it was when I started 15 years ago, you need multiple people to succeed in top tier content.

If you don’t want to form the connections / social networks that are required to do the top content & are frustrated by the people you play with / their inability to do that content then, for your sake, maybe you should stop?

It’s a game - we play it for fun. If it’s not fun, for whatever reason, then you (and I mean that in a generic sense not just you) shouldn’t play it right?

[strong forum]

I love playing alone in multiplayer games

And hate Single player games

[exotic spoke]

But you want to do content that requires a good group

[strong forum]

Not necessarily

I stopped pushing in s1

Cuz I was stressed the fuck out

But I hate the fact that even easy keys like 18s require that much effort

( on average)

It doesn't appeal to me

[exotic spoke]

18s aren’t that easy in the grand scheme of things since the scaling is different legion - or even since the start of bfa

[random urchin]

18s isn’t really “easy” anymore

Season 3 scaling is very different than S1 and S2

[strong forum]

I know that

But still

[exotic spoke]

I dunno - it feels like you don’t want advice anyway and are happy being unhappy so I’m just going to drop it and get back to work for once

[warm plinth]

Wow, imagine working

[exotic spoke]

Perish the thought

[zealous shell]

Man, my group was getting comfortable with 15s and some 16s by the end of s2, and weren't expecting the scale of the s3 changes

We just beat our first 15 a couple of weeks ago after getting the crap kicked out of us all seasom

[exotic spoke]

Now the fun stuff begins goldfarb

[zealous shell]

I'm loving the struggle

This week has been especially tough for me

Quaking is a little rough

It feels like semi-lax communication doesn't really cut it anymore. All that stuff you said about calling every interrupt/reflect/cc is stuff I need to be implementing with my group. We double up on interrupts more often than we should

[sand egret]

hmm, @strong forum we're basically the same player. I play this game alone for like 90% of my time in it haha

also part of the element of why I don't raid/guild up

@zealous shell I casually run with some coworkers' guildies but their guild is pretty much a YOLO pug for the most part. I'm kinda the only one who is more "hardcore" minded and into pushing keys so we just hit that wall as well where the "little" things they didn't bother with matter now. DPS not saving cooldowns for deadly packs, doubling interrupts/stuns, etc. hit them like a dump truck. The other day they were getting slaughtered by Venom Bolts and it's mostly because they just "healed" through it. Same thing went with not positioning correctly on Kragg

[zealous shell]

@sand egret in my case it's not that the guildies don't wanna bother with mechanics, interrupts, etc., but more that we're understanding how impactful they are at higher keys. It's just a matter of learning to communicate better, make personal adjustments, and keep morale up as we fail while finding what works

Keeping*

Getting keystone master this season is the goal

[sand egret]

Thats the same case that I was describing, yeah.

[zealous shell]

Seeing the personal and group growth is a big part of what's keeping me involved. In season 1 we were barely beating 10s at the end

[sand egret]

yeah, i feel ya. I got two that are getting more and more into it, it's just getting the other 2 dps from their pool to also want to improve

but it's nice because they had basically resigned to not getting the +15 achievement and now they're putting it back on the table

[hardy mesa]

How and when is it good to use razor coral?

[sick sentinel]

@hardy mesa don't use it in dungeons

In raids you can use it with avatar or with inkpod if you're using it

[hardy mesa]

Okay, thanks!

[outer dew]

@exotic spoke ????

Memeing in 18s with the boys

On my wack ass pala

18 feels fine at

Atm*

Only reason keys start feeling miserable is when things one shot and you dont know how to deal

And you group doesnt know how to deal

Ex would be a rogue I meme with knows to meld spike and spit in wcm or the dot on third boss ml

If your group doesnt know prio kicks, doubly miserable

Hell, not even knowing when or how to chain pull is misery too.

Because dps wanna rope themselves hitting 1-2 targets

[junior ivy]

UPS sucks

[limpid pawn]

I’ve been using 445 edict with socket and 440 vial for this week - feels ok

I have 430 rezans, 430 block with socket, 445 razdunks button

Would you guys use a different combo

[exotic spoke]

18s aren’t bad tofu

Hi catfriend

[strong forum]

I'd use edict + block, but vial is fine

[outer dew]

wow

where my hi

[ionic fern]

Hi.

[outer dew]

bless

hi Mwahi

[ionic fern]

Anyone had it happen before that you make the jump on Orgo but you still randomly get 1 shot? 🤔

[strong forum]

You can get 1shot if you touch the jellies mid-air

Or do you mean you made it, then die on the other side

[ionic fern]

Jeh.

Made the jump, ran the rest of the way down aand then died

lol

[shut summit]

Is one that can clip you through ramp near bottom

[strong forum]

Too fast 👀

[shut summit]

Is gr8

[ionic fern]

Definetly intended.

[strong forum]

There's so much intended in bfa

Especially in tol dagor

[stoic pilot]

I really hope they give up on multi level dungeons after this expansion lol

[sand egret]

they won't, nor should

[exotic spoke]

That was an interesting experiment

Doing actual work at work I mean

I’m done with it

[sand egret]

work smart, not hard

😛

[stoic pilot]

You say they shouldn’t but every single multi dungeon they’ve added has sucked in one way or another lol they’re riddled with bugs

[exotic spoke]

Pretty much lol

[stoic pilot]

If they release one I wish they’d thoroughly test it* there

[exotic spoke]

I liked TD - until cannon nerf

[analog swift]

tbh cannon nerf was reasonable

[sand egret]

not everyone

[analog swift]

but % change was not

[sand egret]

and the issues aren't multi-level dungeons per se

so it's extremely reductive to remove a huge aspect of level design by just chalking it up to that. There's way better ways to deal with the issue

[stoic pilot]

It’s my opinion.

Every one that I have personally played has sucked that’s all

[exotic spoke]

I don’t disagree theseus - but it’s a combination lol

I think TD is good - just bugging and each time they make changes people get creative and it adds new shit that weren’t tested

There are a ton of people trying to “break shit” for lack of a better phrase

More than they have testers. Never underestimate the power of a bunch of determined idiots

[stoic pilot]

I think with TD pre cannon nerf was alright

But it sucks that cannon gets nerfed and trash around it gets left alone

Also being able to pull Jes through wall accidentally causing a full wipe is annoying

[strong forum]

We haven't had a single TD run in s3, that didn't include atleast 2 ninja pulls through walls

[exotic spoke]

I don’t like the nerf cause I can’t kill my party members as easily since I don’t want to waste a shot or they don’t have an extra shot to try and kill me now

[strong forum]

Last time we pulled last boss, through the ceiling

[sand egret]

i've not seen a ninja pull in weeks

[strong forum]

And had insta wipe

[stoic pilot]

Yep lol

Or Jes pulls and he aggros every trash pack on the way

[strong forum]

Oh ye we also had pulled jes through wall once, by accident

So that was another wipe

And then at the fire casters

Pulled 2 rooms, cuz walls don't exist

Fun.

[stoic pilot]

There’s also fake walls in Tol’Dagor like when you get right to first cannon

[strong forum]

Yup those

[stoic pilot]

And you inevitably have someone aoe through wall and pull that huge pack inside

[strong forum]

Don't exist

Whaysoever

[sand egret]

that's the major spot where you see issues

[stoic pilot]

I mean there’s multiple spots

[strong forum]

The entire dungeon

[stoic pilot]

Enchanted falling through floor, Jes pulling, fake walls, last boss pulling

[strong forum]

Exactly what meekuh is saying

[stoic pilot]

Demo lock imps (lol who plays that spec)

[strong forum]

You pull enchanted, it bugs downstairs and pulls the small vulpera pack

[stoic pilot]

They literally aggro shit randomly in there for some reason

[strong forum]

And they snap to your healer insta

Idk what happened in s3, haven't had any of these issues in s2

But s3 is riddled with bugs

[sand egret]

emissaries

[stoic pilot]

It’s because beguiling has auras that go through walls

[strong forum]

Ye but bosses being pulled through walls

[sand egret]

basically every example you mentioned can stem from the same issue

[strong forum]

Ye but bosses being pulled through walls

Or additional packs

Weren't as much of an issue back then

Even non emissary packs

[sand egret]

i mean that doesn't change the fact that my point stands

the degree can change, but the problem is the same

[strong forum]

Obv

[sand egret]

target detection in WoW is archaic, this is a thing since TBC tbh

[outer dew]

Big brain play is back to death skipping cannons

:^)

[sand egret]

I do hope that TD and the problems that are being seen do hopefully give rise to a more systemic effort to improve that aspect of WoW, as it could have very good side-effects

cutting out verticality shouldn't be the solution, however.

[strong forum]

Just make actual walls...

Fixed

[sand egret]

oof, I cant with you lol

"just flip the multiplayer switch and add match-making!"

[warm plinth]

Well, shouldn't they have just made them in the first place? Like Blizz makes me laugh at shit sometimes. I'm not an expert game developer but if you're gonna make an invisible wall, why would you have it end before it covers the area you need it to cover (speaking of the one they added in AD by Vol'kaal)

[strong forum]

Thinking about it, TD and waycrest are the very first dungeons / situations where you had enemies this close to each other split with walls / ceiling

[stoic pilot]

What’s hilarious about that Ghash

Is they patched it

[strong forum]

In the entire game

[stoic pilot]

But they didn’t patch it enough again

So you can STILL swim past it

[sand egret]

what if i told you the problem wasn't the wall

but the stone that makes up the wall

so just "adding walls" doesn't really do much if the walls are inherently broken

[strong forum]

Well duh

[sand egret]

it's just putting a bandaid on a leaky ship

[strong forum]

That's what I mean

ACTUAL walls, not just texture

That actually stop abilities

[sand egret]

pretty sure you missed my whole point

i don't mean literal stone, I mean how walls/how they actually are integrated and the rules they abide by

[strong forum]

Cuz it's the first scenario in the entire game

Think about it

In no other situation ever

Are you close enough

To hit through a wall that's close enough to enemies

[sand egret]

that's not true

lol

but aite

[warm plinth]

well, yeah

[stoic pilot]

BRH was a multi level in legion and worked fine because everything was just spaced better so these kind of issues never popped up

[warm plinth]

There's been instances before

[strong forum]

I can't think of any

[warm plinth]

Lower Karazhan

Maw

[sand egret]

that's just in legion

[warm plinth]

Even before that

[stoic pilot]

Oh yeah, lower Kara pulling the trash from down below

Lol

[strong forum]

Where there's only 8yard range

Really

[sand egret]

yeah

[warm plinth]

Yeah in the room with the two caster packs

That make the firelands portals

You can pull the opera shit through the floor there

[strong forum]

Ah tru

[stoic pilot]

Aoe would bug out

And go through the floor

[strong forum]

Had that once... I think...

[sand egret]

so making these sweeping statements is just makin' ya look silly

🙂

[strong forum]

Like I give a fuxk

Kek

[stoic pilot]

It’s ok nom you’re not silly

[strong forum]

I'm not being dead serious here

So I'm fine :D

[stoic pilot]

One of us just a little too serious on being right unfortunately to have a decent discussion

[modern brook]

on the topic of TD

now that we've had a long while

what are pplz opinion on the cannon change as far as the health of the dungeon

[strong forum]

Shit

[modern brook]

Same :/

[strong forum]

Too much

[modern brook]

Same 😦

[strong forum]

For casuals

[modern brook]

old cannons were fucking stupid

[stoic pilot]

I think it’d be okay if they nerfed mob hp around the cannons

[modern brook]

new cannons just feels o pointless

[stoic pilot]

But pulling a massive mongo trash pack before first boss is fun on its own right

[strong forum]

5 shots is only just enough to kill

So you absolutely have to play perfect

No error allowed

That's annoying

[modern brook]

Yeah I've been beinga big bitch with it

[strong forum]

9/10 we opt to just not use the cannons at all, cuz people miss anyway

Or only hit 1 target

[modern brook]

I've been doing 2/3 -> 1/4 splits

[strong forum]

And we all just stand there afk

[stoic pilot]

We generally end up pulling 3 packs, and aoe ccing till they’re grouped

[strong forum]

Waiting for retards

To miss

[stoic pilot]

And just hope it doesn’t go wrong

[strong forum]

Idk why it's so hard for people actually hit with cannons

[sand egret]

cannon targeting ui is kinda ass...

[strong forum]

It's baffling

[modern brook]

^

cannon ui is ass; and mongo hunter pets

[strong forum]

It is but come on... Just use your eyes...

[stoic pilot]

I think the cannon shouldn’t have that trajectory aim tbh

[modern brook]

i think they're ppl

[sand egret]

if it gave you a top-down view

[stoic pilot]

It should just be ground targeted aoe

[sand egret]

and you just put an aoe on the ground

[strong forum]

It's so simple... Like... Breh

[sand egret]

but you gotta be all first person and gauging distance is where people fuck up

[modern brook]

I tihnk I'd be ok w/ 5 shots if u couldnt hit allies

[strong forum]

So you see, circle, if there's a tank close aim to the side and not ignore him and shoot him

Or complain that you can't shoot

[sand egret]

another thing would be if your allies could see your targeting reticle

[strong forum]

Na it's just collective of 3iq people in cannons

[modern brook]

"is soak :^)" -- every 🐒 on anything that isnt a soak mechanic

[strong forum]

Its so fuckin easy

I'm anticipating the cannon so I stand on the edge or just far enough away so cannon doesn't hit me but adds.

'you're too close BabyRage I can't shoot move away'

...

[modern brook]

🤷

[stoic pilot]

I think that unless it’s tank

[modern brook]

from their pov: "i take the shot, tank dies; im the reason key's dead

[stoic pilot]

They should shoot anyways

[strong forum]

I love when people can't think on their own

[stoic pilot]

Dps fault

If they’re in the way

[modern brook]

as someone whos been in the cannon with less considerate tanks

[stoic pilot]

Absolutely no reason to be DPSing the packs on cannon pulls

[strong forum]

Im never not tanking, and 9/10 doing the cannons

Cuz cba retards

All I can say is to people in cannons, 'just be smart'

[modern brook]

I will say

Cannons are 300x easier this season than last

just cause no reaping

[strong forum]

I miss reaping

[modern brook]

i mean same

but the cluster of it made shooting the gun harder

[strong forum]

Just earth ele

🙃

Done

[modern brook]

Imagine Reaping w/ azbeam 😮

also lol shaman

[strong forum]

Earth ele was giga busted vs reaping

Cuz it doesn't get the debuffs

[modern brook]

Honestly i really like shaman healers 🤷

[strong forum]

But taunts all of em every 3 sec or some shit

They'd be busted

If they could afford to deal dmg, had poison dispell and combat ress

And more tank healing

[modern brook]

"if they were better they;d be busted"

a literal unarguable point

[strong forum]

Well breh

They're the 2nd worst healer

What do you expect me to say

[modern brook]

arent like all healers that arent druid the 2nd worst healer

[strong forum]

Monk is 10x better

Pally is 20x better

[stoic pilot]

Aw don’t do disc like that lmao

[modern brook]

Pally > monk? really?

[strong forum]

And priest is the only healer that's worse

[modern brook]

dude disc cant do anything

[sharp night]

glimmerdin is insane

[stoic pilot]

Disc isn’t that bad

[modern brook]

im convinced they forgot about the spec when designing dungeons

[sharp night]

arguably on par with druid

[strong forum]

Glimmerdin has insane dmg

And healing

[modern brook]

Hm

[strong forum]

Literally 60k boss dmg

Dps*

[modern brook]

omgeaHM

[sharp night]

it would be better than rdru if it had brez

[stoic pilot]

Priest pumps up there too

[modern brook]

Maybe I'll finish gearing my pally so i can find a group to run keys with :^)

[stoic pilot]

I can guarantee you hpal would’ve been used more in MDI if engi brez was a thing

[strong forum]

Disc pumps, but does fuck all healing

[stoic pilot]

Eh

[strong forum]

Disc can hardly get above 30k hps ST

[stoic pilot]

That’s just wrong lol

[strong forum]

Spams shadowmend 🙃

Pally isn't picked for mdi cuz of brez and shadowmeld

That's literally it

[modern brook]

OOooh are mdi all ne now?

[strong forum]

And lack of CC sometimes

No but it was mentioned above me

.

[outer dew]

imagine doing keys without being a dwarf or NE

[modern brook]

oh hi tofu

[stoic pilot]

I’ve been thinking of race changing back to dark iron off night elf

But I’m tempted to go dorf for heritage

[outer dew]

can't smeld the mechanic that's gonna one shot me?

useless

[modern brook]

NE def not a plate race tbh

[outer dew]

???

NE warrior looks great

[modern brook]

😬

[outer dew]

I'd be a NE paladin if i could

i'd change to NE in a heart beat

because relying on a tank/dps to do the res

is miserable

[stoic pilot]

Yep lol

Our entire group minus our pally is nelf

[outer dew]

lol

[stoic pilot]

Feelsbad for him on death skips

[outer dew]

but it's important to be NE as a dps/healer

oh, you got targeted by a mechanic from the boss?

smeld

that thing that borderline one shots?

smeld that bitch

[stoic pilot]

rezan pursuit lol just meld it

[outer dew]

RAul wants to spit orbs on you?

meld it

thorns from witches? meld it

dot from third boss of ML?

meld it

powder shot? meld it

[modern brook]

FUCK

@outer dew ur right :^(

[outer dew]

LMAO

you looked at

plate NE?

[modern brook]

yeah

[outer dew]

lmao

[stoic pilot]

It looks gooooddddd

[modern brook]

the male model still looks like 🐒 to me

[outer dew]

yea

but no one goes

NE as male

[modern brook]

but fne plate is dope

[stoic pilot]

^

I’ve been wanting to go normal dwarf since I end up holding fireblood for so long

[strong forum]

Wait bull you haven't watched mdi

[stoic pilot]

And the heritage looks alright

[strong forum]

I misread your thing

[modern brook]

i've sorta given up on BFA

my guild died

[strong forum]

Everyone is NE

[modern brook]

@lusty grotto is "not" playing classic

[strong forum]

For shadowmeld skips

[modern brook]

all my friends are baiting me into like +4s

[strong forum]

Yikes

[modern brook]

i unsubbed and am riding it out

[strong forum]

+4s

Yiiiikes

[modern brook]

but like yeah if i cant find a play group before i run out im prob not playing again until the next exp

[strong forum]

Ye I was same

In every expac ever

[modern brook]

which is too bad cause i actually really like bfa rn

[strong forum]

I did my 2s with my irl

[modern brook]

as unpopular as that opinion seems to be

[strong forum]

Pushed a bit rating

[stoic pilot]

I enjoy it after this patch as well

I enjoyed last patch too

I hated uldir and s1 though

[modern brook]

I want to push 2k io this season

[strong forum]

Bfa is great, but raid is shit

[modern brook]

but like pugging past 16s is a fucking chore

[strong forum]

And TF is taking fun out of gearing

[stoic pilot]

We got 2k and just afk’d because of classic / people on vacation

Hopefully starting again soon

[modern brook]

I disenchanted Az shoulders yesterday to roll new ones

[strong forum]

447, nothing is an upgrade that's not TF or socketed

[modern brook]

got the same ones

:^(

[strong forum]

M+ is fuck all loot

[modern brook]

i finally got memed by the system i defended :^(

[strong forum]

I got 3x same shoulders bull

3x

[modern brook]

yikers

[strong forum]

In a row

[stoic pilot]

I really thing azerite rolling would be so nice if they just made it no duplicates

Until you had all of them

[modern brook]

Oh but to answer u more directly: no i havent watched the mdi

I sorta agree

IDK

i really like azerite as like a talent system

cause like when you hav ea bunch of different azerite to choose from it feels sick

but like

[strong forum]

My rsham just hit 69 neck...

Fucking nerd

[modern brook]

i was forced to play sin for the first ~ 6 weeks of this season just cause of rng drops

and thats not fun

[stoic pilot]

I can’t even play my offspecs

[modern brook]

I dont have enough gold left to resepc'

[stoic pilot]

Cause my prot pieces are good for arms for pvp and my reforge is insane because of it

[strong forum]

I only play arena once a week

[stoic pilot]

Blank templates for each spec for azerite with the same reforge system would be 👌🏻

[strong forum]

So my reforging is 5g

[modern brook]

I think my only real complaint, this late into the season wrt azerite armor

is how alt unfriendly the essences are

cause like wtf else am i going to do during what is essentially the great culling of guilds that is classic (besides gear alts)

[stoic pilot]

I’ve had enough bgs for a lifetime lmao

Rank 4 on main and rank 3 on 2 alts

[modern brook]

I keep trying to get into pvp

but i suck lol

[stoic pilot]

I have a pocket priest so pvp is generally okay

[modern brook]

im even playing the cheat class

[strong forum]

Rank 4

And 2x r3

Are you mental

That's 200k honor

That's fucking 25 honor levels or some shit

[stoic pilot]

Yep lol

[modern brook]

😬

[sand egret]

how the hell do you even manufacture the time for that lol

i'm strugglin for r3

[stoic pilot]

Well

[sand egret]

let alone MULTIPLE of those

[stoic pilot]

I just do daily bgs on all 3 then grind during bg week

[sand egret]

you have insane persistence lol

[stoic pilot]

We had a perma 5 stack wanting to farm so it wasn’t too bad

Plus alliance so extra honor

[sand egret]

I need someone like you on my QA team haha

yeah i imagine getting constant wins isn't too bad....

[modern brook]

must be nice having players 😠

[sand egret]

but the wait + a loss.....

yeah that's just a huge time waste lol

[stoic pilot]

Yeah I never farmed it solo lol

It’s only like 23 honor levels btw

Iirc it’s like 8.8k for a level

[strong forum]

Ye it's 8k or some shit

Not 800

[stoic pilot]

It’s insane compared to legion

[strong forum]

23 sounds so lame

Ye

I'm honor level 44

No way in hell

Did I earn fucking 400k honor

In Legion

I was prestige 5 or 6

That's way less than that

[warm plinth]

I'm honor level 8 😄

[modern brook]

i think im 11?

[strong forum]

However, a friend of mine was prestige 25 level 50,that came down to honor level 500 in bfa

[modern brook]

i ground out he first prestige for the artifact skin back in legion

[stoic pilot]

My wife hit prestige 25 in legion just doing wqs every day and daily bg

[strong forum]

I grinded prestige 4 before raid release in Legion

Took me 2 weeks

And I wanted to cap prestige every season

But then they fucked arms

[stoic pilot]

I remember when nobody would prestige

Because it removed your honor talents

Lmao

[strong forum]

Na I insta prestige

Cuz I wanted to be ahead

But then stopped after they nerfed arms into the ground for Arena

[stoic pilot]

Crazy, I got to max and waited cuz I didn’t want to lose honor talents

[strong forum]

And slowly transitioned into pve

The forbidden territory

The playground

I min maxed the shit out of honor gainc

I was sitting in tol barad

And spam queued skirmishes, that I'd always win 1v2

And when tol barad was up, I capped it real quick

For 300 free honor

Kill 1/2 guys

[modern brook]

i have no clue what you're talking about

[strong forum]

Then go back to arena

[modern brook]

how do u force 1v2

[strong forum]

I don't force it

But I could win that

What im saying is

I always won

Even if my teammate was giga dog

[modern brook]

im following

I had to look up tol barad

[strong forum]

👏

It's a forgotten place

[modern brook]

seems weird to put a raid behind pvp

[strong forum]

They've done that multiple times

In wintergrasp

And tolbarad

Ye that's it

Tol barad was wintergrasp 2.0

But I enjoyed it very much

You cap that zone, and gain access to the raid

So the other faction couldn't enter

For 4hrs or some shitv

Then it was next battle

Was very fun

[modern brook]

seems weird to like plan around

like u get ur raid together then lose and now what u just hang out

[strong forum]

The raid was very easy

Like very easy

Not a real raid tier

100% puggable

Consider it more like a world boss

[modern brook]

ah

I'm learning so much

[strong forum]

tales of the past

Man i miss it

[sand egret]

it was less a raid

and more a world boss

[strong forum]

More like 4 world bosses

1 boss per tier

[sand egret]

yeah but not like a "raid" in the same sense

[strong forum]

Ye

[sand egret]

since you didn't really go kill the "older" ones in the new tier

unless people brought alts and shit

since it was super quick

[strong forum]

Yup

[sand egret]

it was cool, I liked that concept

[modern brook]

seems like something that could fit in BFA tbh

sidebar: Bladesong looks like Bullfango to me and its very confusing

[sand egret]

if they made the world bosses in nazjatar gated behind who controlled the region, that'd be it

[modern brook]

grrr im still angry that Lucid is good for literally every spec i play and i have to do like 30 days of stupid ass wqs to get it to r3 😠

naz gating is dumb and makes me 😠

[sand egret]

i mean it's the JG Wentworth problem of gating

[warm plinth]

Yeah, it's annoying

[sand egret]

you want your loot, and you want it NOW

[modern brook]

I mean im fine with gating it

once

[warm plinth]

I was fine with having to get it the first time

It's the alts that I hate

[modern brook]

^

[sand egret]

ofc

the alt problem is shitty

[modern brook]

And its not like the content is interesting

[sand egret]

however....

[modern brook]

like idrc about doing the raid one / the M+ one over again

[sand egret]

being a druid has its perks....since I'm basically 3 alts in one

[modern brook]

cause thats content i want to do anyways

[sand egret]

=0

rep ones should (and most likely will) be shared in 8.3

since I highly doubt they want your ass back in Naz grinding that shit

[strong forum]

I haven't used lucid in a couple weeks now...

Months even

[modern brook]

U have no idea how happy i was to hear C&S was good

[strong forum]

Actually

[zinc badge]

Getting closer to 120 any good habits I should try and incorporate?

[modern brook]

use the shield :^)

[strong forum]

Lookout for your teammates

[sand egret]

dont spam SB

[strong forum]

And check if they're being retarded when moving along trash or during packs

[sand egret]

run some dungeons and work on your in and out of avatar rotations

[strong forum]

More often than not they accidentally ninja packs cuz they sidestepped too much

[modern brook]

rotationally; make sure ur not capping rage / ur using CDs on CD

[zinc badge]

I leave 1 sb charge and try and keep up IP and i kite mobs to the next location so far

[outer dew]

spam SB

big brain

[strong forum]

You can safely use both SB when actively tanking

[modern brook]

Kite with strafe so ur not giving ur back

[outer dew]

do more damage

[modern brook]

you'll know if ur doing it worng cause u'll die

[strong forum]

And fill gaps with Last stand between SB recharges

[stoic pilot]

Generally try to use last stand as a rotational ability to cover shield block

When it’s down

[sand egret]

preface: Spec Bolster

[stoic pilot]

Icy veins for correct build and general FAQ stuff

[modern brook]

^make sure ur talents are correct theres literally only 1 choice to make

[sand egret]

there's 2

🙂

give the tree some credit

[outer dew]

give ravager some credit

💪

[sand egret]

we did and it defaulted

[warm plinth]

You can choose a different talent on Storm Bolt row and Crackling Thunder row

[modern brook]

Stormbolt is like

[warm plinth]

They're not gamebreaking

[modern brook]

objectively correct

[stoic pilot]

I really like having storm bolt

For tides stunning before they die

[sand egret]

i'm a SB fan myself

[modern brook]

2nd stun > shorter cd on stun

[stoic pilot]

Didn’t use it as much in S2

[warm plinth]

Yeah I mean, I use Storm Bolt too

[sand egret]

but some people love RE

[warm plinth]

But if people wanna use RE or whatever

It's not going to make them shit or something

[outer dew]

bolt doesn't matter so much in keys due to DR

[modern brook]

I mean yeah it wont affect your through put

but its a utility tree

[outer dew]

i'm wasting a GCD on stormbolt most of the time

[modern brook]

taking the spec that literally does nothing do to DR vs the one that gives u another interupt is a waste of utility

[outer dew]

nah

[warm plinth]

You have so many stuns in most groups that having an additional one won't make much differeence

[outer dew]

menace is big brain

🤔

think about it

[warm plinth]

It does help

[stoic pilot]

Menace is good in siege no troll

[outer dew]

you can leap in

[warm plinth]

But it won't break the comp if you don't have it is my point

[outer dew]

fear

[stoic pilot]

So good on spotter packs

[modern brook]

@warm plinth true, but this one is on u and u know it'll get used when and where it needs to

[outer dew]

and do reverse grip

LMAO

[warm plinth]

I agree, which is why I run SB

[outer dew]

clearly big brain

[modern brook]

RE is a strict downgrade >:^(

[outer dew]

is running impeding victory

[stoic pilot]

Stun DR depends on comps though

[outer dew]

not if you DR

[stoic pilot]

Like if you’re running 2x rogue sure

[outer dew]

everything to kingdom kong

[modern brook]

especially if u DR

[zinc badge]

[outer dew]

aite aite

[modern brook]

@zinc badge useful tips have ended

[outer dew]

real big brain

[warm plinth]

I mean, we run HPal, HDH, and rogue a lot

That's a lot of stuns

[modern brook]

When in doubt refer to the guide

if something doesnt make sense feel free to ask here

[outer dew]

is to run punish, HR, devastator

big brain

[stoic pilot]

We run disc / boomy / pally / DH 😂

[outer dew]

imagine your SS damage

hnnnng

[sand egret]

but out of those only one is a multitarget stun

[warm plinth]

Stuns DR stuns

[outer dew]

yea

dfoesn't matter

[warm plinth]

Doesn't matter if they're aoe or ST anymore

[sand egret]

sure it does

if you have 4 mobs

[outer dew]

i don't stun with DH/Rogue

[sand egret]

you can put them all on a DR

[outer dew]

because the rogue/dh is already baby sitting

oh i see

and make me wanna rope myself

[warm plinth]

DH and HPal both have ST stun

Er

[outer dew]

when a skill goes off

[sand egret]

or leverage your 4-5 second stuns instead

[outer dew]

gigga brain

[warm plinth]

Rogue and HPal

[outer dew]

i mean

but that's the thing

most of the time you don't need a stun

[warm plinth]

BtE and Hammer

And the rogue one is rotational I believe

[modern brook]

stun dr is 30s; if u take RE you can AoE stun every 30s as soon as another aoe stun is introduced, it stops being useful cause U'll never need it twice in a fight

[warm plinth]

So it actually DRs quite a bit

[outer dew]

yea

[stoic pilot]

It’s like top prio in rotation too

Especially with 3x of the trait that buffs it

[sand egret]

so that target is fucked

[warm plinth]

It's not 30 seconds?? DR resets 18 seconds after the last use of that category

[outer dew]

and most of the time

if your personal stun is needed

it's just to stun, leap

or stun,charge

to get out

[modern brook]

20* sorry i have big meaty claws for hands

[outer dew]

mmmmm

bear claws

[modern brook]

and regardless of the timers the point stands

if theres 1 additional aoe stun in the group; RE is superfluous

[outer dew]

it's more of you don't need the extra GCD for no reason

a rogue can handle ccing one target whole time

DH can do it perfectly fine with a fear added in

[stoic pilot]

Speaking of that

[outer dew]

if the extra stun is needed for a mob

[stoic pilot]

Rogue can baby sit an interrupt target fully

[outer dew]

you either overpulled or you're lusting + blowing cds to burn

anyway

[stoic pilot]

DH is able to as well?

[outer dew]

DH can do it pretty well depending on the mob

[stoic pilot]

I was curious about this since I wanted to assign people to stuff like water blasts

[warm plinth]

No, we can't. Some mobs we can lock down if they do buffs and casts

Like the elementals in ToS

[modern brook]

DHs have been taking fracture more from what ive seen

[warm plinth]

We can alternate purge and kick for their accumulate charge

[modern brook]

giving them ~4 interupts

between their kick, fracture, nova, and imprison

[outer dew]

water blast

you don't have to worry

because the only thing you need to worry about is bolt

[stoic pilot]

Yeah

[outer dew]

blast is just ground

[warm plinth]

Oh you guys are talking about vengeance

[stoic pilot]

Er yeah that’s what I meant sorry

[sand egret]

the amount of dh's I see that don't utilize imprison as an interrupt is insane

[warm plinth]

Water Blast is their direct cast. You're thinking of Wash Away

[outer dew]

and you either pull slow where you have enough kicks

[modern brook]

I was talking havoc

[outer dew]

or you pull all and lust like in S2

and just LOS the pillar

[sand egret]

fracture is a Veng ability (that doesn't stun)

[stoic pilot]

But ideally one person per attendant would be plenty?

[outer dew]

yeap

a meele kick

will be able to handle it

[warm plinth]

No

Water Blast is spammed

[modern brook]

you also need to get the heals

[outer dew]

nah

[warm plinth]

1 melee can't lock that down

[outer dew]

it only fucks up

if you retard kick

the ground one

[warm plinth]

They cast Wash Away periodically

[outer dew]

or stun it

yea

[stoic pilot]

You don’t interrupt wash away

[outer dew]

so you let it cast and your meele kick is up

[warm plinth]

But mostly they just spam water blast

[sand egret]

they'll alternate

[outer dew]

so you have enough time

[sand egret]

uh

[warm plinth]

No you don't