hmm
#protection
lusty grotto
unborn agate
I don't have any friends but I got a pretty nifty shield so I can finally play prot thanks for listening
lusty grotto
gz
hidden trout
Prot Bros, I main spec fury but have to help tank M Ashvane (progression)
I'm seeing a lot of Major Essence CoF
The damage is needed from tanks that much?
orchid token
the damage isn't needed but why would you ever leave damage on the table
building for defense is a trap
hidden trout
Why not just Vision?
lusty grotto
there's little risk in tanking ashvane
lusty grotto
COF is better ST dps
orchid token
tanks should maximise every ounce of DPS every bit as much as DPS players should
take only as much survivability as you need and everything beyond that goes into DPS
lusty grotto
yup
hidden trout
yea that makes sense
orchid token
DPS players could wear a diamond prism in every fight to help the healers
but why would they
hidden trout
I'm not an experienced tank tho, was just checking
orchid token
they're going to live without it so they don't use it
hidden trout
still null for a minor?
orchid token
only if it's rank 3
hidden trout
ok, thanks for the tips
sick sentinel
any1 have any clue as to what the ppm is on lucid?
onyx vessel
You say little risk in tanking ashvane but guilds tanks die fairly often
spice ferry
What?
onyx vessel
Mostly the dk
spice ferry
Tanking ash is ezpz
Only reason to die is if you pull agro right before barnacle with high stacks
stoic pilot
O.o if they’re dying on heroic that’s a huge red flag
sick sentinel
ashvane is easy
languid ember
Not tank swapping properly I guess
sick sentinel
I get trucked more on radiance than any of the other bosses
and no
I can get like 4 stacks without issues
Probably cd managements
on mythic that is
spice ferry
Do you even need to swap on heroic lol
spice ferry
Actually think we could 1 tank it with how fast it dies
Ehh dk would be okay for a few stacks
They just need to survive the hit
Biggest problem would be dealing with bubbles, but can be healed through
onyx vessel
They complain about too many mechs on ashvane
Yet dont move out for thing overhead
Reeee
Combo of bash plus too many bubbles exploding would be the reason why dk dies id guess then
There isnt alot of tank mechanics to worry about on ashvane is there
spice ferry
Dk can handle every second briny
And then let it hit the Druid and taunt back
So basically 0 mechanics
Get the druid out ASAP, he taunts back for bash
Ezpz
onyx vessel
Doesnt briny line up with zerk rage for us?
onyx vessel
But ik the druid wants to dps so i can take the spot
Gg ez
If only i made it to every raid 
spice ferry
Dk/war is sweet combo because you swap briny between you to never have a tank stunned with it
spice ferry
Yeh is handy
lapis vessel
Anyone know what 2nd minor I should have with 65 neck? In raid (ashvane progress) and +15 keys. I use VoP major annd MoLD in minor. Appriciate any respons
sick sentinel
If you are doing ashvane progress and don't need surv because you know how to play your spec, CoF Major, Null and VoP minor
onyx vessel
for keys wouldnt it be vop major lucid null
sick sentinel
or if u want more overall and go speed 15's u can always go VoP major and c&s/aegis as minors
stoic pilot
I’d swap between vop/ lucid / aegis swapping out aegis for magic dungeons with nullification barrier
unkempt bramble
Is it only me or is this week in m+ extremely weird
onyx vessel
whats wrong with lucid
onyx vessel
rage back
strong forum
ye we bathe in rage already
frank otter
hi guys, it is worth to equip a 445 azerite armor with "bad" traits over a BoM/DC 435?
onyx vessel
arcane heart is only bad one
onyx vessel
ify
frank otter
BS/BFI on outer, Blightborne/CR on inner
undone sun
BS definitely more bad than CR though
strong forum
use BFI + Blightborne
undone sun
worse would be the right word I'm looking for 🙃
frank otter
alright, for helm I've a 435 with BoM/DC and the engi one 445, should use the engi I guess?
strong forum
ye
frank otter
k, thanks
onyx vessel
should i switch my 2nd DC for Reckless flurry?
strong forum
for raiding yes
onyx vessel
pump the ST
strong forum
for m+ no
tranquil vale
Is it worth switching my 420 azerite piece for a 445 piece if it means I lose my only defending crash trait?
sick sentinel
Dc is worth 30 ilvls so no
tranquil vale
Deafening
tranquil vale
Ok sounds good thanks
frosty holly
Just me or does R4 Aegis of the Deep not look any different? Just a standard looking bubble for me
Aa nvm was the major active part that changed, thought the passive "shield" would change to
hard sigil
just got azshara trinket 330 from weekly sims about 2k higher than my vial of animated blood 335 but isnt it clunky in m+ to use?
sick sentinel
I just realized theres a new affix for season 3, wtf is It?
lusty grotto
beguiling
sick sentinel
how many healers you guys have for your mythic team. my guild is using 6-7 and were hittin the 6min enrage timer think leader should reduce that amount of healers but were having problems with positioning also aka placemnt of patches any advice
mythic sivara
floral bolt
is bloodthirsty urchin better for survivability than edicts of the faithless? 🤔
stoic pilot
@sick sentinel our guild uses 5, can go as low as 3 healing it if your healers / dps are good
I’d suggest 4-5 though. 6-7 is omega overkill
Just tell your players to not be mong and actually execute the fight well
sick sentinel
we began are progression and ok ill say no more than 5 think raid leader just wanted to be safe but i think ppl will have to be safe with reseting there stacks
glad sparrow
@sick sentinel Are you and your off tank spinning her every other barrage? This helps keep the barrage colours on the right side which lowers the chance of an untimely unstable mixture
sick sentinel
we usally on are sides an taunt swapin after the barrage goes off usally what main tank tells me to anyway
if im green hes blue were on oposite side to what your surpose to be on at start drop are stacks off behind boss at wall then go to the correct side and go from there
glad sparrow
So the way we do it, is we have a tank facing the door and one facing the back room. And we make sure that off pull she uses barrage while facing the back that way frost goes to frost side and venom goes to venom side ( we put venom on the right side and frost on the left) then the next on she switches sides so we make sure she's facing the front. While your idea does work it means that any that are to far on the wrong side of her will need to avoid the opposite colour
exotic tiger
anyone here had a decent briny barnacle, wondering how good it is in practical use
lusty grotto
when in doubt just sim
i didnt say inkpod/ashvane were better
that's up to sims to decide dps-wise
and you can always get other trinkets with higher ilvl
sterile mantle
anyone using edict of the faithless trinket?
floral sphinx
does aegis have a cap on stacks?
warm plinth
10
floral sphinx
cool thanks
so why is aegis being used more then lucid on m+? is it cause you can have more uptime on buff?
warm plinth
¯_(ツ)_/¯
floral sphinx
lol i have a feeling thats the case but my brain isnt that big
sick sentinel
it bad
gaunt oriole
what are the tank bracers from mechagon like? any good?
lusty grotto
they are eh
sick sentinel
on rings is it ever worth giving up haste
lusty grotto
for a lot of ilvl yes
like 5 ilvls is enough to go for sockets
so i suppose you could do the same sacrifice for haste, but honestly i wouldn't recommend it
sick sentinel
ones 15 ilvl higher than the one im wearing and both dont have a socket
lusty grotto
def wear the 15 ilvl one
all our stats are close in value
for both offensive and defensiveness
sick sentinel
cool thank for the answer 🙂
nova rover
Hey guys does BoM stack? like worth to have more than 1
nova rover
Nim, is it worth doing two BoM over 3 OP?
lusty grotto
OP isnt in the same ring
floral sphinx
yes 3 BoM
floral sphinx
so what should i use...430 vision of demise/410 rezan w/ socket/ 420 pocket-sized w/ cyclotronic blast & 178haste/59mastery?
stoic pilot
is quaking magical damage? or physical
potent anvil
It's physical.
floral sphinx
i am wrong
stoic pilot
that's unfortunate, thought null barrier would be god tier this week
neat lagoon
hollow bolt
i think it is
fresh valley
Hey guys, I've been designated add bitch for M orgo.. can I stack triple DC / BoM or should I get a couple defensive traits?
terse dragon
I woke up in a new buggati
languid ember
@fresh valley I used Triple BoM/DC
You don't take that much damage as add tank unless you get incubation fluid, which can be a bit annoying
solemn depot
440 servant spitter worth over 430 haste versa weapon with socket? cant decide
copper sinew
Do prot warriors do dailies as prot or swap specs? (Checked pins and guides, didn't see it answered)
undone sun
Pretty subjective so doubt it'd be there anyways, id still stay in tank spe.
copper sinew
@undone sun Thanks dude. Loving prot so far.
sand relic
whats best way for warriors to stay alive on queens court for when u tank the boss outside the bubble
our tank keeps dieing
i think we have lack of healing but still what can he do to live better
our tank phandango keeps dieing
abstract geyser
is vision of demise trinket worth?
sick sentinel
@sand relic
Not that this has to do with living but 5 uses of Crucible in 8.5 minutes
tender burrow
spice ferry
coral?
sick sentinel
so naga hide looks bad, what are you all using? i
willow scarab
@sick sentinel bwon was never good for m+ it just had a place in MDI specifically for the pulls it gave them access to. Normal players shouldn’t use it
sick sentinel
i see some prots using force multiplier and some using haste?
willow scarab
Quick nav is for poor players
sand relic
@sick sentinel so why is he dieing is the tank tanking boss outside bubble magical or physical dmg ?
sick sentinel
8 of your pulls he died from Deferred Sentence
Pack it up, boys, monks are the meta for M+ 
He's continuously dying at 3 minutes into the pull, so have someone put an external on him just before 3 minutes of the fight or have him actually use his shield wall then.
sand relic
@sick sentinel so what should i tell him to stay alive
is it magical or physical
when hes outside the bubble tanking
sick sentinel
EXTERNAL
sick sentinel
Simple equation
He keeps dying at 3 minutes
He's never using Shield wall at 3 minutes
Tada
Have you guys considered swapping?
spice ferry
he can come in the bubbler
and just keep his boss outside it
and not die
safer strat
bosses suffer the DR but whatever, better than wiping
orchid token
@sand relic he's also in general playing super badly
bad use of shield block
bad use of his own CDs
tons of empty GCDs which could have been filled with devastates for more shield slam procs for more rage for more ignore pain
hearty lichen
@exotic tiger I was going through messages, I have a 445 briny and it does on averag 5% of my overall damage every key. You can game it when the affixes aren't shit and focus the low hp mob and I can get as high as 7%
mint idol
PLEASE SEND HALP, I AM DRUNK
undone sun
Sold out
distant crystal
damn barnacle's that good eh
willow scarab
barnacle is good if the mob with the dot dies
otherwise it's meh
in raid it does about as much as an inkpod that didn't crit
sick sentinel
@mint idol ask the brewmasters
exotic matrix
how many stacks of deafening crash do we need ?
dusty knot
Hey guys! Can anyone tell me what stat priority you go for in m+ as prot? I feel like a lot of tanks go for different stat priorities and what traits u go for in m+? I've seen for example people playing with triple Deafening Crash for example whereas the icy-veins guide tells us to just get one of Deafening Crash? Thanks in advance
scarlet copper
From what I’ve read haste is very important. It will decrease your GCD and increase how quickly you get shield block charges. But also what I’ve read is to prioritize item level more than anything
vestal edge
Elemental whirl or unstable flames?
scarlet copper
Whirl
vestal edge
i just looked on bloodmallet and flames is higher
orchid token
sim yourself
bloodmallet is a template sim
for a trait that provides stats you need to sim yourself to work out which comes out ahead
it's probably flames, but you should check
simming is effortless
scarlet copper
Can someone go over their priority when starting a big pack in M+? I’m trying to decide on a good “trash pack opener”. Like what are some of the essentials I should have running in terms of surviving the pack and whatnot
glacial flint
how much healing is the lady ashvane trinket ? the edict of faithless 435+socket so so bad vs my 420 opulence (this is a screenshot of undr17 intime 18,5k hps)
sick sentinel
opulence is op
glacial flint
i know 😛
sick sentinel
try using myrmidon instead of sea witch also
but ya a 445 urchin is slightly more helaing than a 420 opulenc ein my experience
depending on how hard youre getting hit ofc
glacial flint
yeah would be more.. but i kinda like to have some Magic defensiv.. warrior is so magic weak
sick sentinel
well if you take less physical dmg you can take more magical dmg
just use the one that is going to get consumed for sure
glacial flint
depends on target type ^^
sick sentinel
thing about diamond is it scales with your haste it's really just the best. wish i had a titanforged one
glacial flint
got mine after like 3 months.. hc + 20 tf
willow scarab
In m+ you're mostly taking physical damage so you probably want to do another one and try it as a physical absorb
sick sentinel
anyone out there have a 445 + jaina anchor
or diamond prism even
i need to dream a little
glacial flint
willow scarab
we did bod tonight with our spare time
for mounts etc
a 415 anchor dropped and all the plate users hearts stopped for a moment
I saw a 440 socket grong on some dps dk
sick sentinel
my guild has about 2 plater users
glacial flint
how much absorb ur doing with nagahide in a dung?
sick sentinel
i want to say naga hide is like 500 hps
willow scarab
0 because nobody uses naga hide and shouldn't use naga hide
glacial flint
im still running with leech. .. its still not bad 😄
willow scarab
interesting
glacial flint
sure im talking m+^^
sick sentinel
when you are thinking about your enchants and traits you often have to ask yourslef what is this doing when im fighting 1 or 2 mobs and nothing is really happening
at least naga hide gives you main stat
it does right heh
oblique garnet
Glick this is all your fault
sick sentinel
also iw nated to complain about ppl stacking crit in m+
not only is haste the best smoothing it is also just your best dps stat on aoe
so did ppl let brewmaster take over m+
what happened
too many lucid dreams in the minor slot
oblique garnet
its because nobody else is pushing atm due to mdi
andybrews team doesnt play in mdi and neither does trances afaik
winged grail
Does Reckless Fury still work with Prot?
oblique garnet
yes
sick sentinel
"bis"
it's a middle tier pure dps trait
theres a few pure dps that are stronger like undulating and rezans
winged grail
Considering I don't need more survivability and try to maximise ST DPS
naive panther
I’ve felt pretty squishy lately tanking anything with magic in dungeons
sick sentinel
if you go rf in dungeons deliberately there is no saving you. but im assuming thats he means raid
you should go pure defense in keys because the more defense the bigger your pulls can be
exotic tiger
@hearty lichen thanks, I'll give it a try
undone sun
👀
exotic spoke
@naive panther this week was rough depending on the dungeon. Definitely swapping up some essences and traits for more survivability
olive lotus
@naive panther Get edict and switch it to magic damage
wicked mist
anybody here that can help me analyse my guilds off tank on Za'qul HC when it comes to rage spending?
oblique garnet
why is he an offtank?
wicked mist
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VWnCmQ1JHbvadKAx#fight=19&type=resources&source=36&spell=101 also lookin at the rage gain for 1 of our early kills it seems to be quite low compared to other guilds
oblique garnet
well yeah he has punish
wicked mist
so swap to Fray?
oblique garnet
yes
his demoshout uptime is low aswell and so is his avatar uptime
also 2 spell reflects when offtanking
wicked mist
i was checkin on some off tank pulls and he was spending alot of rage on Revenge
instead of mitigating the tether damage
steep bone
which class is going to be the best for prot on horde side? M+ wise
i suppose tauren or highmountain tauren
oblique garnet
belf
steep bone
cuz of arcane torrent or?
oblique garnet
yes
steep bone
cheers
lilac atlas
For M+, do I stack more BoM or DC? assuming I already have 1x BoM and 1x DC
night oxide
has something changed in the last two weeks are we still running VoP or do i just go pure defensive for M+? 15s and up range
oblique garnet
BoM @lilac atlas Also VoP is the most defensive for m+
lilac atlas
@oblique garnet Thanks! Is that true if I wanna go for more dmg?
candid path
warm meadow
Hi who has a good skill tree for Classic protection warriors ^^
sick sentinel
playing prot warrior in classic?
wait people do that
wasn't arms a better tank than prot was
undone sun
analog swift
related, has any done freeholdboosting
been doing it on my warrior for some free $$$$
upper kindle
would a 435 gorecrusted be better than a 430 phial in all content
mint adder
Yeah phial is not good
sick sentinel
what's the best 2nd minor?
mint adder
For what content?
sick sentinel
m+
strong forum
aegis / c&s
fierce juniper
Depends what you're running for you Major. If you're running Crucible major you'd generally want to run vision/lucid for minors. Or if you're running Vision major then Lucid/Sphere or Lucid/Null Dynamo if there's any substantial amount of magic damage
strong forum
crucible is decent dmg
sick sentinel
also null major seems really weak on paper
30k damage reduction
strictly from magic
sick sentinel
yeah but that's like half an ignore pain
sick sentinel
does it do damage regardless of absorbing?
sick sentinel
does it do 30k damage to everything around you?
strong forum
30k totla
sick sentinel
so it's spread between everything?
shut summit
undone sun
Split
undone sun
Sure someone does, vop isn't default from what I know either
exotic spoke
Ive run cof from time to time
strong forum
cof during Tyra dungeons
exotic spoke
Tyrannical weeks occasionally
strong forum
is a thing
exotic spoke
But this week is full defensive
strong forum
VoP isnt as amazing from my experience
sick sentinel
comparative to an avatar proc just some damage on GCD feels reallyyyyy weak
strong forum
idk fam
on some bosses CoF does 4k dps
so.
im more about the part that avatar proc seems very weak compared to CoF
but thats just me
exotic spoke
Depends on the content
exotic spoke
I meant null is great depending on the content
sick sentinel
i dread farming all those spare crates
exotic spoke
This week you want to run Conflict and Strife / Aegis minors imo
strong forum
i will always run VoP + Aegis now
exotic spoke
You absolutely should farm those crates - its super fast
strong forum
ye i was reluctant to get r3
now i regret it
but atleast i got r3 aegis in 2 days, so i can pump that
void berry
ASHVANE 122k HP 😡
sick sentinel
conflict and strife major soon
come into the light
aegis seems really bad in minor slot
C&S is extremely good minor?
what
C&S major is balls
silk loom
I'm using the Bloodthirsty Urchin and PSCD with Subroutine: overclock. Ignoring warforged, is there any better raid trinkets for us?
silk loom
cyclotronic for raid tanking? wow I never knew
remote rose
Is it wise to stack IP?
remote rose
so you can stack and overshiled on IP
undone sun
Yeah, and will do so quite often to prevent rage capping
Though technical overhealing is only when you let IP run out, but not something to worry about too much
fierce juniper
@remote rose IP has a cap of 1.3 times the cast amount, so it doesn't stack very much. You shouldn't overcap on purpose when you don't need to, but yeah if you have to choose between capping rage and overcapping IP you should always overcap IP.
remote rose
correct
steep bone
are there some 'must have' WA's for prot or tanking in general? If so, i'd love some link to wago or something
remote rose
basicly i wanted to know if i was wrong for "overcasting IP" im being judged for doing this and i wanna defend myself
fierce juniper
You are if you're not doing it to prevent capping rage
If you already have IP up you should pool rage until you can either cast a mostly full value IP or if you're going cap rage
chilly brook
I mean yes
What Marok said
You'd be better off spending the rage on revenge if you're not close to capping or not about to cast an almost full value IP
fierce juniper
^ that too
remote rose
i was on mythic radience and and my rage was being spent on IP the whole fight to survive we were doing a bad strat so i wasnt even close to capping rage and my IP shield would be gone most of the time so i had to refresh the shield
fierce juniper
Yeah I mean if the vast majority of your IP casts were at full value then that's fine.
remote rose
correct
due to bad strat we didnt down radiance unfortunately but due to the situation i couldnt keep shield block up as much as i wanted. my next question is i know its ideal to keep both going but if you had limited rage to spend on a magical boss the better choice would be to spend it on IP correct?
chilly brook
no
I mean
if there's physical damage you're going to mitigate more from the SB
even if there's magic
unless it's literally strictly magical damage you won't prioritize IP
oblique garnet
when you are tanking the boss you should use sb
chilly brook
granted I haven't touched this raid tier so this is general input as I'm not familiar with the damage profile
oblique garnet
If you could link the log from the raid it would make it easier to make an assesment as to what you are potentially doing wrong @remote rose
fierce juniper
Worth noting that on Radiance the Stormling/Stormwraith's melees are magic damage and can't be blocked, so on them you should just use IP
or at least i think that's true unless logs are lying to me
remote rose
@oblique garnet gimme a few doing islands while we chat ill have to find the logs again
@fierce juniper correct i due
whoops" do"
but we were whiping on first set of adds so i didnt get much pratice with them
remote rose
radiance himself really wasn't a hassle it was when we got to phase 2 barly surviving the adds rekted us
oblique garnet
Also your avatar + demoshout uptime is really low
Given that those should be used on cd
Your devastate casts compared to rest of your casts are really low which leads to lesser rage gain
remote rose
(shakes head) alot of mistakes were made on that progression including my own
oblique garnet
@remote rose When you are tanking radiance of azhara you should be using shield block but when you are tanking the adds in p2 then you should prioritse ignore pain
Also your last stand usage is low aswell
remote rose
Yea im working on using that more often since due to anger management its shortened
should it always be on CD?
oblique garnet
in most cases try to use it after 3 shield block charges
Off the top of my head i dont remember the exact timers when you get taunt swaps in radiance
oblique garnet
Yeah but how long the time interval is between tide fists
That i dont remember
With itf and your gear you should have enough haste for your shield blocks recharge be around 12 seconds which allows you to chain 3 before you would have to use last stand
And when you are tanking the adds you can use last stand on cd
sharp night
remote rose
what percent should i bee at on haste?
oblique garnet
Theres no exact % to be at haste
remote rose
im at 46%
oblique garnet
yeah you have more than enough haste
To keep up shield block
Just need to press other abilities than devastate
remote rose
hahah i can work on that
im trying to get outa old habits
WOTLK is long gone but the rotation remains
thanks for the advice on everything guys oh btw what essences should i be use for defenses
i have null barrier
but i normally run lucid and aegis
ran null for radiance for mull absorb
oblique garnet
You should take a look at the icy-veins guide its really helpful as to what essences etc to run for defensive
remote rose
i use wow head
undone sun
IV is written from the owner here, wowhead is not
somber bison
are there any good HUD style WAs for prot warrior? i looked on wag.io but there wasnt really any
remote rose
@undone sun i will check it out
btw how come theres no prot warriors logs recoding on how to do better n shit
red sigil
weary thorn
@somber bison I use afenar's WA ui for most of my tanks
somber bison
o ok do you mind linking it? @weary thorn
frozen girder
4 dedicated players looking for warrior tank for 48 hour marathon session after release, pm for info.
sick sentinel
do you ever want to take bloodsport?
or better to stack bastion using vison re3
r4*
undone sun
Not bad to stack it
onyx vessel
edict 430 jes howler 430 or overclock 420 pocket-sized
which 2
im thinking edict and overclock
astral harbor
what are best traits to M+ ?
ionic fern
3xBoM,1xDC would be something to aim for. Other than those MS/IF/SS are good as well.
shadow wind
should i replace my current 455 pants with 430 azshara pants?
theyre both mastery/vers
tight tree
Hey guys, how good are Mechagon bracers? With parry on use + shockwave after. Got them 10 ilevels higher than my haste/crit ones. Worth switching?
(probably not but just in case)
ionic fern
@shadow wind defensive wise - no.
DPS wise - sim it.
@tight tree what bracers are those again? In general you'd still go with ilvl.
sick sentinel
what do you guys think about sanguine? i fucking despise it, probably worst affix after bursting
feels like bfa dungeons were not designed with sanguine in mind compared to legion
ionic fern
I don't really mind it that much as long as i have a decent teamcomp (e.g atleast 2 melees).
You have plenty of counterplay to it :
Think of the way you are going to kite the mobs - kite them so that they drop sanguine BEHIND them so you don't have to walk through it later (think WM corridor).
DPS the mobs down at the same time(Harder to do in pugs but still do-able).
Spells like Typhoon/Ring of Peace/Grips are really good.
Be sure to LoS/Interrupt casters (TD especially) so they move where you want them to move.
tight tree
@ionic fern
@sick sentinel With sanguine there is one thing you have to do is think ahead, where will you go after. Drag them along the walls. If you filling gap with sanguine ie bridge in freehold, tell your group to move ahead before mobs die. If you killed bunch of mobs in boss room, good idea would be to go ahead and kill some more trash, then return to boss when sanguine despawned. etc etc
merry cave
Sanguine is a whole lot nicer than quaking (my least favourite affix)
tight tree
quaking is just badly implemented. at least it should not interrupt eating
also it makes for hilarious laughs, when everyone moves same direction from it lol
sullen valve
YEET
jade socket
@ionic fern coggies
ionic fern
Thank you. 
mint imp
@tight tree i got 430 those wrist. They sim really high in M+ also more than 450 + socket wrists. But for raiding ST i am sure they will not be so good. But as always sim yourself
tight tree
Oh. I take it, simcraft for prot was finally fixed then? (sorry i am terribly out of the loop, back in game for 2 days now)
brittle owl
@ionic fern you should hydrate more, that color doesn't look healthy
mint imp
you can sim the dps, not surv
tight tree
THey took me in mechagon 1st day lol, with 405 ilevel. Was fun run.
ionic fern
Jeah, sims are up to date for prot. 🙂 but as Kobris said - only DPS wise. Can't sim survival.
undone sun
Orange 👀
tight tree
Sure. Who the hell needs survival when you can lay out deeps, right 😉
brittle owl
ikr
tight tree
Thanks guys
brittle owl
i'd go see the doctor immediately tbh
sick sentinel
Well, that and simming survival has an assload of variables
brittle owl
no, it's intrinsically impossible to sim survival banshee
sick sentinel
That'd be my point
brittle owl
or rather, intrinsically useless
cause you can't think of it in a vacuum, which sims are
undone sun
More work than reward to get it usable
brittle owl
might as well train neural networks to play classes at that point 👀
sick sentinel
Trust me Mael, I spend a plethora of time trying to explain that to some of the regulars in Guardian discord
brittle owl
which, would be dope af
sick sentinel
Exactly
brittle owl
you or the mob
sick sentinel
lol
Yep. They can't kill you, if you're already dead
lol
Just play a Death Knight 4head
rapid tide
I kinda had forgotten how annoying raid tanking can be :' )
tight tree
Raid tanking is chill compared to high m+ imo
rapid tide
It's chill but I also feel way less impactful.
And feeling I don't have all too much impact on the outcome of the pull is annoying me tbf.
Like I can position the boss, I can make sure I don't die and contribute my dps part.
But outside of that I can't... really make life easier for the dps it seems?
Or at least I don't really know how 😄
void berry
Well, good boss positions, less movements if possible and more mitigation helps DPS and healers to do their part :)
And I'm on Ashvane currently and there's a ton of things to do and check. It's a really nice boss compared to the three first ones for tanking.
rapid tide
Ye, on Ashvane, too and it felt a bit hectic in the beginning but way less impactful than I had feared. Gear helps after all I guess, overgearing it hard at this point.
mint imp
idk i really like za'qul, that is where the fun begins. Other bosses are boring comparing to last two
sick sentinel
You're helping the groups overall dps the more dps you pull and the better you execute your defensive abilities (because it allows healers to dps).
rapid tide
I guess... it's just difficult to see the impact tbf 😄
I mean I can check my logs, seeing that ehrps is fine and that it should all be okay. I see that I do mistakes myself and can work on those for sure. But sometimes it just feels like I am a bit powerless when people are kinda not doing their thing 😛
sick sentinel
A healer that's spamming you and a healer that's dpsing is a big difference
The 8-14k dps that healers do is definitely possible
rapid tide
Oh yeah, I am totally aware of that.
I know that playing well obvsly will lead to better overall raid performance.
I was more talking about making life easier for dps that are stressed out by things happening. I don't know, hard to describe?
It just feels like sometimes I should be doing more but I don't know how.
sick sentinel
During the raid I'm basically half asleep anyway I just press 123 and my SB button occasionally
rapid tide
My thing is I kinda don't see progress happening atm.
A lot of shit is going wrong, let's say it like that.
So I think: I can stand here just doing my job for another 50 wipes
Or I can try to find something I can do to make it easier for the others.
sick sentinel
I only tank raids when I have to though, I only tank mplus
sick sentinel
What boss are you on
sick sentinel
Do you take her to the middle for second corals?
rapid tide
It's a mediocre mid 2k guild that is socially pleasent but gameplay wise subpar.
Yes, we do.
sick sentinel
What's the main cause of wipes
rapid tide
Upsurges, soaks going wrong, overall damage intake and not hitting the dps checks leading to additional bubble waves.
In that order imho.
Although all kinda correlated in the end I guess.
Casters are moving a lot, having people pull 20-25k in burn phase with cooldowns is...
Trying to get the boss positioned so that they can dps while cutting/soaking helps obvsly but it still feels underwhelming.
sick sentinel
You're just in a guild with terrible players then
ionic fern
I think Ashvane might get nerfed soon tho if it stays as a block for many guilds.
sick sentinel
It's a 2k guild mwahi
Even if they kill ashvane they won't be able to kill orgo
What's the solution, nerd orgo after?
I was in a 2100 guild in uldir
We couldn't kill zek by December
ionic fern
I just ment in general.
Blizzard usually nerfs the first "hard boss" some way down.
They will just get stuck on the next boss then.
rapid tide
Like this was one of the p1 burn phases. DHs and Balance druids had cds up for that one, others had used on pull.
And I don't really know what I can realistically do to not have it look like... that?
Like beating out 2 dps on the meter is nice but also a bit frustrating?
ionic fern
Either join another guild or lower your expectations in regards to raiding with that guild.
In most scenarios 1 person being uber good won't make a change in the outcome of the raid. 😦
sick sentinel
Tell the melee to stack on behind her right foot to stack the upsurges
Mark a guy and make him the leader of the melee
Meanwhile, search for a better guild
ionic fern
Did you kill Court yet Kaege?
sick sentinel
We're killing her today
ionic fern
👌
sick sentinel
We had multiple 3%/4%
rapid tide
@sick sentinel we did that last time when I was on dps and I was the stackpoint.
This time noone was willing to take the mark.
😦
sick sentinel
I think it was 5 times in the last 6 pulls
sick sentinel
Thanks : D
tight tree
@rapid tide That was one of the reasons i stopped raid tanking mythic. I learn my part in 10, maybe 20 pulls, then stay for 2 more hours waiting for everything to click together. Ofc, there is always room for improvement. But it got boring after a while, i started to feel that it is not worth my time.
Somehow, it was way better, say in Wrath. Probably rose tinted glasses, because tanking was mechanically way simplier.
brittle owl
ofc it felt better in the early days
since wow raiding was still funky fresh
but comparatively it's a no contest in terms of complexity
tight tree
Since Mists, all my tanking days are one big blur in my memory. But i still vividly remember my Kara runs. And killing heroic Lich King for a first time 😉
brittle owl
and sadly tanking is still objectively the easiest raid role
oh totally, i remember tbc and wrath raiding vividly
but thats cuz it was a brand new experience
tight tree
Solotanking Anub-arak adds on heroic.
sick sentinel
If you're executing positioning correctly and doing your part, you can't magically believe that your dps'ers are gonna do their part and it's not on you to get them to do their part. If there is nothing gameplay wise to help out your raid, figure out how other specs work and help the subpar dps get better. Run them through M+, help get them better gear. The biggest issue seems to be the dps check, there are plenty of ways to help with that, that isn't necessarily related to how you pull.
A simple start would be to help your other prot warrior find out why they are pulling 2/3rds of your damage when you're only 4 ilvls above them.
There's very few instances where 1 player makes a raid, no matter their role.
void berry
Tanking is easy, but DPS isn't rocket science either.
Well, I played DH so... obviously :kappa:
spice ferry
there is often those jobs
but they're not tied to a roll
soak bitch on ashvane, or blockade for example
sick sentinel
There's 0 roles that are hard.
spice ferry
soak bitch as an example can be "hard" but the difficulty is often not something you have any impact on
like if your healers dont heal you fast enough, you aint soaking
sick sentinel
"Very few examples"
spice ferry
etc
void berry
What's hard is not to fill your role, but to do it to the best level
Dishing out 30k as a tank while being ok defense wise so your healers can dps too isn't easy or everyone would do it.
spice ferry
that isnt hard either
brittle owl
it kinda is 🤷
spice ferry
that comes down to fight/class knowledge
brittle owl
esp this tier
undone sun
speaking objectively on a subjective manner 🤣
brittle owl
since 40-50% of tank dmg comes from external sources
void berry
"It's not hard" but 0.1% of the people manage to do it.
tight tree
There is traditionally assigned to certain classes roles such us soaking/immuning, hunters and rogues typically do these.
void berry
Oh, you're one of those.
spice ferry
its not hard, pressing xyz buttons in a specific order is not challenging. The hardest part is understanding which buttons to press in which order, or at least attaining that informatino
brittle owl
🤷
but objectively, it's not needed
its good to have sure, a great bonus, but its not a gamebreaker if you don't
sick sentinel
The hardest part is executing it flawlessly every single time, which I'm gonna tell you, you won't get it right 100% of the time.
brittle owl
yeah consistency is key
spice ferry
consistency takes you from a 95 to a 100
knowing what to do gets you from a 10 to a 95
sick sentinel
I mean I got BiS benthic and still grey parse, so
void berry
Well a friend of mine knows everything there is to know to play his Havoc and still can't deal damage.
void berry
You can just be bad :(
brittle owl
well thats cuz you suck
sick sentinel
LMAO
spice ferry
exactly, consistently logging in to farm benthic
brittle owl
😂
sick sentinel
He might know everything about Havoc, but he clearly doesn't know how to execute havoc properly
spice ferry
i know a few people like that tbh
sick sentinel
Which in turn means he doesn't know it.
undone sun
well
spice ferry
knowing class theory and being able to execute it are not tied
sick sentinel
Truf
mint imp
well, you can train the execution by only practicing on training dummy, but if someone is anti-talented nothing helps you
sick sentinel
I mean training dummy doesn't account for a lot of things.
mint imp
thats true, but atleast something
chilly brook
Training dummy is a fine way to familiarize yourself with the rotation, I’ve never really understood the “training dummies won’t actually help you” unless you’re a ranged DPS and don’t understand how to move and not screw up your DPS
marble cipher
Training Dummy rotation was the biggest increase for me back when I mained a mage and "just" got into raiding.
It's invaluable tbf, especially for openers (on certain classes)
marble cipher
Oh, for sure yeah, the actual numbers aren't realistic
If anything, you could compare it to a raidbots patchwerk sim, and see if you're reaching the potential that your gear provides you
(disregarding raid buffs that you might be lacking)
undone sun
realistically you wont ever reach sim dps in identical scenarios, but even then there's a few variables that dummies don't offer
sudden kayak
did prot warrior have thunder clap back in wow classic
sudden kayak
sweet thats guna help with threat
ionic fern
😂
brittle owl
can't wait 2 months from now when all the memes will start
rapid tide
They haven't started yet?
brittle owl
this is just the ramp up
brittle owl
"is thunderclap bugged?"(warriors) "where is my taunt"(prot paladins) "why are tanks so bad"(every dps that pulls threat) "our tank is getting destroyed, he is playing the fury prot build"
24ish hours afaik
brittle owl
idk if 24 hours qualifies as tonight my dude 😂
if it does pls share your sleep secrets 👀
brittle owl
the release is global btw
brittle owl
i'll probably play on wednesday
rapid tide
Found a new trial probably.
brittle owl
realistically this week will be shit for playing
rapid tide
Requires me to get 65 for the id after next tho.
Which is kinda yikes.
Being at 61.
rapid tide
That's a highly debated topic.
:' )
But it's still a step up from "no way we kill Ashvane" to "smooth progress on Court".
So I guess that's worth the effort maybe.
spice ferry
65 from 61 in a week is pretty yikes
spice ferry
That’s a solid grind haha
brittle owl
court is more about execution though from what i see
rapid tide
Ye, the reasoning behind the 65 req is a bit weird.
tbf, wanted to get it done anyways in 2 weeks.
Now I just cut that by 1 week.
🤷
brittle owl
watch out, maybe they're one of those 'culty' guilds
you never know when they'll require a blood sacrifice to solidify your raid spot
rapid tide
Nah nah, they are super chill, known a lot of them for a long long time 😄
ionic fern
Tbh - my guild started requiring 65 now as well but in about 4-5 weeks luckily. 😄
rapid tide
They were aiming for higher world rank this tier.
brittle owl
i mean, if you play wow every day
rapid tide
And got hard stuck on Ashvane.
brittle owl
you should have 65 by now
rapid tide
Which I think led to kinda "panic requirements" imho.
ionic fern
Depends on what you're doing in the time you play.
If you just spam m+ like me.
Then no.
😂
rapid tide
Kept 4 chars roughly equally geared and necked.
brittle owl
well that's just peanut brain time management tbh 😂
rapid tide
Sooooooo nah, I am not near 65 sadly :' )
brittle owl
full azerite clear is like 1h tops
brittle owl
pff i'd rather neck myself than neck my alts
ionic fern
And i don't wanna spend that on azerite farms.
brittle owl
this patch is a no go for alts for my time investment
kept 3 up at the same level last patch, was so good
8.1 was so good for alts
ionic fern
Neck isn't the most horrible part for alts tho..it's the damn essences.
brittle owl
both of them
sonce you want neck level 60 at least to not feel gimped
imagine not playing with CoF r3 on a tank 👀
it's actually ridiculous
i don't even have null r3 on my main and it's annoying me
flipside is i broke 32k st without it so at least i can sleep soundly
but then again, there's people closing in/breaking 40k and that depresses me 👀
sick sentinel
essences suck for mains
that's the real issue
2 birds with one stone if they didn't
getting rank 2 for most essences is good enough
Yeah I didn't realize how strong r3 null was going to be just because of pure ignorance and as soon as I hit revered on my Druid I stopped going to Mecha. Now I'm finally getting around to farming the rep again
sick sentinel
What's hard about doing the wq every day?
brittle owl
just takes time
ungodly amounts of time
you want to open as many chests as you can so you can at least get 2-3 a day
chrome falcon
got my 445 paralytic barb feelsgoodman
mental scarab
Howdafuck do you guys brake 30k dps 👀 can never go past 21k st
ionic fern
Ilvl + Azerite+correct essences.
ionic fern
What's your gear like? 🤔
sick sentinel
15 oscillators literally only takes 1 week to get. You can't get 21k rep in 1 week. @brittle owl
mental scarab
https://raider.io/characters/eu/kul-tiras/Sabelss im in m+ gear now so
Have another head
For raids
brittle owl
also cyclo blast for ST dps in raids
mental scarab
Didnt know i needed rep for that one 😂
ionic fern
And on ST if you want to DPS use Devastator over BV.
mental scarab
I have razor 430 i use instead for rezan
brittle owl
should use razor + cyclo
ionic fern
I mean..you have 2 BfI's on your Sivara kill on HC.
brittle owl
idk, it's less globals wasted tbh
ionic fern
Devastator will be big for you.
😒
mental scarab
🤔
brittle owl
and you have good kill times wdym
willow scarab
not clunky if you have good haste
mental scarab
Need to go and cry in the toilet now
brittle owl
your best sivarra kill was 3:16, if you wouldve specced /geared for ST that would be a 2:50-3 min kill
even a 3:16 kill is good for prot
mental scarab
Aight
brittle owl
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CQYc2xpz3tvgk4ny#fight=4&type=damage-done here's a hc kill from yesterday where my cotank got frozen 3 times 😂
he didn't use deva
sick sentinel
Yeah your 3m sim with BV is 23.8 with deva it's 25.6
And that's with your current essences.
brittle owl
cof/null will be your biggest bump
sick sentinel
Lol
brittle owl
first time tanking together, we set a wager on dps for the run
i won
he got frozen during his first avatar as well 😂
with lust n shit up
sick sentinel
Big oof
brittle owl
probably didn't help that he was nursing a hangover
sick sentinel
Was running keys with my disc priest buddy yesterday and he would be dps'ing like crazy and not heal me once turns out he was half a 12 pack in.
sick sentinel
Well that'd require atonement to be on anyone
sick sentinel
Lmao
I'm like dude you're straight pumping dps but not healing at all wtf.
Oh
Wait
We spammed lower keys once I caught on.
mental scarab
Insane BoIS 👀
brisk ferry
f
quick yarrow
Hey all, what is the best race for Prot Warrior (Alliance) : NE or Dark Iron Dwarf?
brisk ferry
I'd personally go DID cause I find meld too gimmicky for shit I run
sick sentinel
dark iron dorf
brisk ferry
plus as a life-time horde player, DID actually looks awesome
brisk ferry
^ lol
willow scarab
void elf
sick sentinel
Go for LFD and get the most out of your dps
warrior FC will not be a thing as long as VDH is a thing
exotic spoke
I know kaege. I miss it. Cata was good times
exotic spoke
Still cata RBGs- best RBGs
stable hedge
Question... Does a random Proc of Avatar with Vision of Perfection clear roots like actually casting avatar does?
sand egret
👀
viscid latch
Oooo nice.
stable hedge
Timed a +10 Motherload with a shield slam build today, shield slam came out above thunderclap, crits as hard as 61.5k at 430 equipped, mostly for fun but thought i'd share.. .3 x bastion of might, 1 x reckless flurry, 1 x blightborne infuse 1x brace for impact... Punish / Devestator/Heavy repercussions .. .stats wise it just seems to increase crit's value for dps
Not saying it's meta or better just missing the old beefy shield slams (:
exotic spoke
Giving up Anger Management though :(. So much survivability lost
Also devastator In m+ keys 😦
sick sentinel
the thing is
you could have done double the overall dps
I feel like we'd get better numbers if he had the right traits for it
exotic spoke
More avatars, more booming voice, more dps and more survivability
sick sentinel
Let's be real, it could work we just need someone to go and get the right gear with the right traits/stats unless someone has done so
if you wanna be real
exotic spoke
It’s not worth the survivability loss even if it somehow ends up being more dps
sick sentinel
there is no world and no distribution of stats