m+ for fastest gearing if you want to be raid ready asap
#protection
ionic fern
CoF/VoP/Lucid/Null/Sphere/C&S
mint imp
C&S?
mint imp
for M+ you would go VoP/Lucid or null/Sphere ?
sick sentinel
VoP Lucid or if you struggle to survive, something like VoP + anima, VoP Null
VoP + CoF is really good too
mint imp
I dont find CoF minor so good
sick sentinel
It does around 1/2% of your overall damage
it's good in ST and AoE with how much damage it does
mint imp
and how many % damage will do the other minors overall?
ionic fern
In m+ situations CoF is not that good.
Yes - it's a decent boost in ST but for the rest of the dungeon it's pretty marginal compared to something like Lucid which gives you extra Avatars in dungeons etc or Sphere with its high uptime haste increase.
mint imp
VoP gives you extra Avatars
ionic fern
Lucid = more rage = more AM benefit = more Avatars was my point.
mint imp
k
bleak tide
Hello, can someone say me the breakpoints for Prot, in other words, how many haste or mastery can I have, before I need more mastery or haste for 1%
undone sun
none to aim for
autumn pendant
So if you wanted to have better overall dmg you would go lucid major or vop?
exotic spoke
Don’t use lucid as a major. Out of those two options you’d use VoP
ionic fern
In m+ it's VoP MAJOR .
autumn pendant
And out of all options
ionic fern
ST = CoF major.
m+ = VoP Major
for dps.
exotic spoke
Mwahi best me to it
exotic spoke
4 hours of sleep >.>
oblique garnet
🤔
Why would lucid major increase your dps
its not like we have rage spenders that can do damage outside of revenge
exotic spoke
Cause I’m more angry and more angry means more dps?
oblique garnet
more angery = more ip spam
autumn pendant
@oblique garnet would you believe me if i told you my fury brain just didnt consider that 🤔
oblique garnet
Yes
autumn pendant
Good
cinder pasture
I didn’t know fury had brains 🤔
sick sentinel
C&S, the minor feels like it's changing the vers gain every time i look at it. And when i'm checking wowhead it seems like rank 1 gives 48 vers / stack while rank 2+3 gives 26. 😮 can't seem to find what actually changes the vers gain (like some essences gives more based on vers or neck lvl etc) 🤔
willow scarab
at rank 3 mine says 54 per stack
ionic fern
Iirc there's a tooltip bug with it unless they fixed it..if you don't have it socketed then it shows like 25 or smth
sick sentinel
@cinder pasture none of the warrior specs have brain for doing damage
only muscle
@ionic fern oh ok, cause mine says 22 now when i swapped it out but 52 or smth when i had it on 😛 But is there anyway to increase it ? like based off of neck lvl or vers.
ty ^^
ionic fern
Jeah, that's the tooltip bug. The real value is the one you see when you equip it.
It scales off of neck level.
sick sentinel
so its basically showing the value from a lvl 35 neck or smth until u equip it and it shows actual neck lvl based values. Ok thx 😄
My CoF sims higher than lucid up until like 9 mobs
mint imp
you sim only minor?
sick sentinel
CoF as M inor vs Lucid as a minor
ionic fern
Link the sim.
sick sentinel
My lucid may only be rank 1, but that shouldn't change the outcome that much
Even 8 mobs CoF is betting it
beating*
lucid rank 3 add´s 360 vers, no?
something like that ye
Rank two, CoF wins still
by like 300 dps
rank 3 it wins
but not as much as I would expect
only 900 dps on an 8 mob pack doesn't seem like much
Gets even closer at like 6/5/4
100 dps difference at 5
It's not marginal
Either or will work, just CoF offers that 4 pack / boss damage while doing still really good overall for aoe even tho it's a ST burn
4 pack CoF wins by 200 damage
That's a lot, weeks like sanguine, necrotic, bursting and bolstering CoF will be extremely good
explosive
ionic fern
Aight, obvious things first - m+ ain't 5m long. 😂
brittle owl
fights not being 5 mins just skews it in favor of CoF
brittle owl
you guys are undervaluing the amount of damage it does
ionic fern
We are? 🤔
It does like 2.5% overall in m+
I actually ran that stuff for a while in m+ cause i was too lazy to swap 😂
tidal blaze
what trinkets would you guys recommend for Mythic Lady Ashvane? the Drippling inkpot and Ashvane's razor coral combi?
sick sentinel
ye
tidal blaze
cool, got to farm that then 🙂 ty for the response
exotic spoke
I was going to say lucky you if you already had them
sick sentinel
😏
cinder roost
Cyclo if you don't have one of them
cinder roost
I'm not even sure I'd drop cyclo if I had combo actually, depending on ilvl
exotic spoke
The on demand burst of cyclo is nice
lusty grotto
morning 👋
reminder: heroic stormgarde is up for NA horde btw, quest gives 430 ilvl
so you can gear up alts with 2 430 items this week, the other being the weekly mythic quest
exotic spoke
Don’t turn in the quest until after Tuesday if it’s still up then. Not sure when it started for you all
Hitting 64 today... getting close... so close
lusty grotto
did the 4 dungeons last night with chipadin
i have no idea
got azshara ring on chipadin lmao
exotic spoke
Sigh
But yeah, if you can do heroic stromgade on Tuesday still I’d save the turn in until after reset
exotic spoke
Run it before Tuesday - just turn the quests in on Tuesday
lusty grotto
not in a hurry to farm AP on them
exotic spoke
If it is still up
sand egret
Quacking sucks. That is all.
sick sentinel
quaking is fine
exotic spoke
It’s annoying as hell - especially in certain dungeons - but overall fine I agree
sand egret
it's shittay
exotic spoke
You did ML. That’s just shitty this week period
sand egret
my issue with how quacking exists
exotic spoke
Where are the ducks?
Like - how are they gonna quack all over us with out ever showing up
sand egret
the interrupt portion just blows from the healer pov and creates weird choices
25% instant damge based on hp is so much fun in a global
I just want it to be a micro DoT that causes pushback over 2 seconds instead of instant. Same damage, but not just like YO CHUNKED
ticks every .5
exotic spoke
Yes... yes... another dot for the dwarfs to be able to remove
sand egret
lol wouldn't be a dot in that sense
but just a 2 second window where it's identical but instead of happing at the end, it does it over time (or maybe ramps up, too).
limpid pawn
I’m seeing a lot of new combos for the top raider.io prot wars
For mythic plus now, the aegis minor seems popular
And trinket wise, of the following which would be best for mythic plus?
445 edict with socket, 430 rezans, 440 vial of animated blood
exotic spoke
It’s because we decided the we need to be defensive this week. Well some of us did
It’s going to change week to week and here the extra vers is very nice.
Regarding trinkets is really depends on the level and what you need for your success. I don’t know what keys you’re doing / what your situation is.
If you want survivability I’d say edict and probably rezans.
If you want a blend I’d say edict and vial
sick sentinel
@exotic spoke why would u wait with the turn in until after reset? Yields the same amount of AP or is the AP increased cause of reset and ketchup mechanic? 🤔
exotic spoke
The amount of AP you need for next level lowers and you maintain your current % through your level
random urchin
It’s just that AP reward now is worth less % than it is after weekly reset
exotic spoke
So if I’m at 5000/10000 through my level when I log off night before reset then when I log in after reset I’ll be 3500 / 7000. Turning in something that adds 1000 AP now means I’m at 4500/7000
Conversely let’s say I turn in prior to the reset. I go to 6000 / 10000. Reset happens and now I’m 4200 / 10000
By saving the turn in until after reset (where possible) I “gained” AP
hasty nova
man i got super drunk last night and feel asleep at my computer desk in the middle of raid. I woke up at 3am when my head on the keyboard.
I killed ashvane again tho 🙂 but we had trouble with orgoalza
exotic spoke
Made good progress on ashvane. Started pushing her to like 65 % first phase 1
sick sentinel
@exotic spoke ah ofc, ty 🙂
exotic spoke
So you want to push all AP gains as far back as possible for maximum gain
I... I don’t understand some people.... can anyone explain why someone would want pre fixed cthun in classic
sand egret
because they don't know what prefixed c'thun was?
exotic spoke
Oh it’ll just be a nice challenge....
I mean sure - maybe people could stack the raid and do higher dps. Sure fine whatever
That doesn’t address another major issue of the fix.... unkillable tentacles spawning and wiping the raid
sand egret
i mean yeah the first fix was that it was literally impossible to kill
so maybe they mean before the subsequent nerfs
slender fossil
Can you help me, please? What essence i should use in myth+ ?
exotic spoke
For dps or for survivability
slender fossil
both
exotic spoke
They are two different things
Typically you’ll want VoP as a major in most situations
slender fossil
for dps and for surv
exotic spoke
It changes week to week but a safe bet for survivability is VoP major lucid minor
@sand egret I wonder what people are going to do for Huhu. That’s what I’m more interested
slender fossil
and one more, what azerite trait i need to stack?
sick sentinel
I heard somewhere that lucid minor procc rate is quite low for prot warr, or is that bad info?
exotic spoke
Have you checked the pins / icy veins guide kofeyo. A lot of this is written there in much more detail than I can put in disc
slender fossil
ok ty
exotic spoke
It’s 2ppm but it is still more rage / shorter CDs and solid for survivability
sick sentinel
wouldn't say c&s or aegis give more survivability tho?
sick sentinel
or am i just thinking wrong :/
exotic spoke
On top of the other effect it has as a minor is nice
Vers is nice - but it’s situational. People are using CnS / aegis this week for magic damage mitigation and also some extra dps.
It really depends on what you need.
I suggested lucid as a default go to because it’s a solid option for damn near most of the time
sand egret
hmm @exotic spoke considering we have foresight now, stacking dorfs up front is the best way to do it. Shaman stacking also works to a certain degree.
exotic spoke
Eww shaman
sand egret
but like if you're seriously "pushing" why would you be horde
exotic spoke
Also:
you don’t know what the other option is that I’m referring to
strong forum
If you're seriously aiming for max gear youre horde
exotic spoke
Look up some of the ZG flasks
strong forum
Sadly
exotic spoke
It’s classic - shit doesn’t matter as most content was easy. People where just bad lol
strong forum
Well im referring to blade
exotic spoke
Also - very few (if any) resources on strats at the Tim e
strong forum
If you're serious about m+ youre horde cuz chances are higher you're in a better guild for raiding to have better heat to push
sand egret
if by max gear you mean, maximum amount gear needed to do content because the other faction can actually just skip a tier, then yeah
but we're referring to classic
sick sentinel
I can see the benefits of lucid for sure, but i guess im just thinking that the static vers u get off of c&s or aegis would give u "more" overall reduction then lucid but. Could be im just thinking of the actual effects and not considering lucids added benefit in rage spending = more cds aswell hmm
sand egret
Nom
sand egret
read up
exotic spoke
We were talking about classic
sand egret
also method announced a "World First race" sort of thing for Classic
so it's actually a thing
exotic spoke
Not bfa regarding “why be horde”
sand egret
but yeah, being able to skip a tier is like the Flute in Mario 3
strong forum
I know they announced it, but it's going to be more of a race who hits 60 first
And whoever hits 60 first as full guild will kill rag insta
sick sentinel
@exotic spoke i think i'll give lucid a try later tonight and see cause i'm not really feeling the c&s procc minor and i dont think aegis is very profitable when u first gain a ton and then on bosses u get next to nada 😛 ty
strong forum
It's going to be a 1 day raid
exotic spoke
Personally, I’d want to be horde in BWL just once on Nef to see a shaman class call and watch the MT Get fucked by back to back windfury procs
sand egret
lol boy did I love taking the blame for that one
sand egret
"wtf healers---oh windfury"
sick sentinel
What do u mean ally gets to skip a tier?
sand egret
Patchwerk in Naxx back in the day was very much a "you need 10k hp " thing to tank
problem was that the gear to do so to get that breakpoint was in AQ40 BUT
alliance had blessing of kings which gave a 10% stat buff
strong forum
I wonder if they'll do quality of life changes / class changes
strong forum
To keep away from the bad design
exotic spoke
You still did AQ 40 anyway
sand egret
not if you were smart
exotic spoke
#nochanges Nom.... god haven’t you heard
(I agree)
strong forum
It's still a severe doubt
exotic spoke
AQ 40 was out before Naxx... what else was I going to do
sand egret
it was a terrible timesink with little returns whereas the first wings were ezpezy gear that was better
strong forum
#therecouldverywellbechangestotaunt
tender burrow
I finally got the hidden artifact. I heard the roar and smiled!
strong forum
Big gratz brummie
sand egret
niiice
tender burrow
Thanks man took 4 weeks
sand egret
RNG gods smile upon you
tender burrow
I dont like the fact you have to have sheild and mace
I just wanted the sheild to transmog
exotic spoke
I have the same complaint about the mage tower one
I want to use just the flail not the shield
The pvp one I like both together - the axe and shield combo
hollow pilot
quick question. I have an alt prot warrior. For M+ which is better? swirling sands o r brace for impact?
warm plinth
There are some very minor things they decided to put in classic Nom. Like the two hour trade window we have on live is present in raids in classic (but not dungeons).
Congrats Brummie
strong forum
Depends lacto, if your shield is good ilvl aka 440+ you can go with SS for more dmg.
If your shield is lower than that use BfI
hollow pilot
415 :p but my block is 26% with a 53% dmg reduction
exotic spoke
You’re not blocking that much in m+ or raid content btw
You’re blocking significantly lower
strong forum
Yup
warm plinth
Yeah with a 415 shield it's more like 41 or 42%
strong forum
Lower
exotic spoke
No ghash - it’s lower
strong forum
Like 30%
warm plinth
Oh nvm, I have 2 IF
exotic spoke
Like 30% something
random urchin
Yeah, % shown is against an opponent of the same level
I’m raid and M+ they’re higher so it scales down
strong forum
A 415 in mythic raid for example would be like 20%
random urchin
In*
exotic spoke
With zero BfI / IF and a 445 shield j block 43.4% of damage in m+
strong forum
If not less
hollow pilot
I have 1 IF
exotic spoke
What’s the character name?
strong forum
It's mandatory
hollow pilot
hehe
exotic spoke
Is it lacto?
mint imp
what trait setup would you choose for M+
2xDC or 1xDC and 1xCallous
warm plinth
2x DC personally
random urchin
I’m running 2 IF and 2 BFI because I can’t get a shield to drop
warm plinth
@exotic spoke How much block do you have on a 445 shield?
exotic spoke
7937 if I remember correctly
Yes, I checked (also it was on a spreadsheet I have but I wasn’t sure it was right)
warm plinth
Wow, IF makes up for a bigger difference than I thought
exotic spoke
I currently have zero BfI or IF on right now. I can’t check their values.
I logged out in ashvane gear not m+ gear
warm plinth
43.4% for M+ w/ 445
39.2% for M+ w/ 395 + 430 and 420 ilevel IF
exotic spoke
With two BfIs if I shield slam I get 508*2 block yeah?
warm plinth
Go up to 40.9% if I include my BfI
exotic spoke
I cant remember if that stacks
warm plinth
It stacks on the tooltip Riki
random urchin
Yep
exotic spoke
If it does(and I think it does I’m just tired) - then I get to 48% mitigation in m+ with a single shield slam
Awww yeah. Just wanted to be sure.
warm plinth
random urchin
There ya go
warm plinth
That's 2 stacks; 508 for one
exotic spoke
9561 block at 1 stack 10577 at two for 50.54% mitigation in m+
warm plinth
That's my piddly ass 430 BfI though; yours would be higher
random urchin
Not a bad combo
strong forum
Block gets heavily DR'd once you have a high ilvl shield
exotic spoke
Not ideal though.
strong forum
Like insane actually
exotic spoke
And yeah - but less damage is less damage and I’ll take all I can get in m+ right now. Especially this week
strong forum
I figured with 4x stacked BfI you'd block a shitton more, but it's actually not the case, that's only like 5% tops
random urchin
Yeah, for me that would be fine. I’m still using a 410 shield
exotic spoke
Yeah it’s 5% almost exactly in m+ for my situation
warm plinth
Yeah I am glad I have the BfI and 2 IF because otherwise a 395 shield would be fucking me right now
exotic spoke
Like 4.85 or close
strong forum
Ye
warm plinth
Like I need that shit XD
exotic spoke
Sorry 5.3*
strong forum
I have 0 block traits, cuz MS :3
warm plinth
Some day I'll get a big boy shield
strong forum
Well it's either BfI or MS, that's the only choices I have
random urchin
Eventually I’ll get a shield. I just hope it’s sooner rather than later
exotic spoke
It’s why I’m using 435 sky scorchers instead of the cthraxxi I have
strong forum
RF is more dmg in m+, funnily enough
If is like 600 dps, whereas RF is constant 800
exotic spoke
Yeah
exotic spoke
That’s super weird. I guess with the stuns though that makes sense
strong forum
And bosses
exotic spoke
And are you high crit?. Would have been tyrannical yeah
hollow pilot
what is RF and MS short for? 😄
strong forum
I have like 1.2 crit
warm plinth
Reckless Flurry and Meticulous Scheming
strong forum
Got my juicy ashvane warden cuirass on Wed. I miss having BfI. But Ms is better :x
exotic spoke
I hate you
hollow pilot
ohh I try to stick with 3 boM 1 DC and whatever those peieces provide for the last 2. Is that not a thing anymore to go for 3 BoM?
warm plinth
You're a juicy ashvane warden cuirass
strong forum
I had 38k residuum and scrapped my currently equipped 445
warm plinth
How tf do you even say cuirass
warm plinth
Welp, I'm calling it Ashvane's Cure Ass now.
strong forum
I want BfI + BoM shoulders, gib
hollow pilot
I only get my 17k from chest from my weekly M+ i've rolled twice and have 2 pieces with B0M and one had the DC as well. :p
strong forum
BfI is so much fun
warm plinth
Nice Lacto
sick sentinel
strong forum
That's lucky
sick sentinel
did somebody say BoM + BFL shoulders
strong forum
Gib
warm plinth
I'm at 1 Bastion; better than the zero I had last week
strong forum
Ya same here ghash
strong forum
Did 28.7k overall on ad 15 yesterday, 4k increase from the runs before just thanks to chest I think
Having BoM vs not having BoM is insane in m+ dmg
sick sentinel
I remember when I was a 1 BoM warrior
in season 2
It was bad
Now I'm an elite 3 BoM warrior with almost bis stuff
strong forum
I miss being full socketed full on bis
But im getting there, 1.3k crit and 1.3k haste currently
And 3x OP
hollow pilot
OP means?
sick sentinel
shows Flames being the best
warm plinth
Overwhelming Power
random urchin
Overwhelming power
sick sentinel
one OP is like 0.6% difference
being at 100% full stacks without losing any from damage
which is a dps loss when actually tanking damage
hollow pilot
do you take it over lifespeed and blood siphon even?
hollow pilot
well thats not what icy veins tell me. it has let me down once again
warm plinth
Imagine having 10% haste before ITF 🤢
sick sentinel
I don't believe this is true
my sims prove that
Once you start taking damage, OP loses most of it's value
and flames is right below it
with no negative affect
effect*
lethal plaza
did not realize a stack falls when you take damage
strong forum
It's 12sec of minimal uptime
lethal plaza
tooltips, they get ya
strong forum
It has 1 sec icd
warm plinth
It has an internal cooldown so you can't lose more than 2 stacks per second (1 naturally 1 from being hit)
sick sentinel
12 seconds vs what sims are showing (25 stacks)
0.5% difference for me between OP and flames
Flames is an obvious winner with how close it is
especially in M+
strong forum
Well crit gems also sim higher than haste gems
sick sentinel
Haste sims higher for me
sick sentinel
22%
warm plinth
I simmed mine yesterday and haste led for 1 target and 10 targets, but crit led for 5 targets
strong forum
Eww benthic
But yeh, guess I'll sim flames vs op
See what happens
I could have 3x UF I think
Or atleast 2x UF
Crit is also better with urchin and orgo prog. 🤔
warm plinth
That being said, I'd still say OP 100% for the average player, because of the defensive gain as well.
strong forum
Will see
warm plinth
Not as much of a defensive gain as haste though
warm plinth
You were just arguing consistent vs inconsistent now you're saying you'd use the inconsistent over the consistent?
sick sentinel
Huh
warm plinth
Haste is a consistent defensive gain; crit is not
sick sentinel
where in the hell did I ever mention consistency
I'm just saying sims overvalue OP
Especially when you are referring to a M+ standpoint
???????
warm plinth
You said that you would take UF over OP because it has no negative effect (OP's negative effect being that it goes down/is not consistent). It was an inference.
I'm not disagreeing with you that they overvalue OP
warm plinth
Anything that sims at max/100% when it's not is overvalued
cinder fjord
Noob question, sorry - Is there any circumstance in EP where I'd use Devastator over Booming voice?
warm plinth
You got that backwards :p You'd use BV over Devastator for defensive gain or AoE
People use Devastator in EP for bigger single target damage
cinder fjord
One of my friends who's helping me get into tanking said I should usually be using devastator for single target, but I was under the impression that the rage generation for it was just worse than BV always
Gotcha
warm plinth
There is a lot of misconception and false information being spread to where people think just because there's only one mob they should use Devastator, despite not knowing why they're doing it.
sick sentinel
Hey, i just changed to prot warrior and wondering if anyone would help me out with azerite traits
cinder fjord
So why do you normally use it in ST situations? I'm swapping to prot full-time and am trying to learn as much as I can, haha.
warm plinth
Its only purpose is to do more damage. With really good RNG it can give similar rage as BV but it's not consistent and that's atypical, so it is pretty much always worse defensively than BV. It also does nothing for your AoE damage, so in any situation where you're going to have adds up, BV takes over damage-wise as well.
exotic spoke
Aidlow, devastator is used for gaining dps when necessary and forgoing the defensive value of booming voice
Some bosses you can absolutely use this and should consider it after you get some pulls / kills in
But; if you need more defensive / tankiness you should use BV
Sure we can try kaen
cinder fjord
Alright will do. Thanks guys. I've just been taking BV as I'm learning the fights and the general damage pattern
exotic spoke
That’s a safe and defensive bet. Use demo on cooldown for more rage
cinder fjord
Also I've been taking VoP normally, but it seems like Crucible is the dominant choice - Is that again primarily used for damage versus survivability?
exotic spoke
Same concept. VoP for aoe / defensive value as a major where as CoF is for dps gain
cinder fjord
Gotcha! Tyvm.
warm silo
What trinkets do i use for mythic plus?
analog creek
What trinkets do you have?
warm silo
Lingering sporepods 410, rezan 430 is what im using
lusty grotto
A shame you can't see the name of the emoji on mobile
Is that all you have though
warm silo
i also have mechagon trink, Jes Howler 430, Vial 430, Phial 435, azhara 415, viision of demise 430 and Butchers block 445
brisk ferry
oh holy god lol
lusty grotto
Block rezan
sick sentinel
lusty grotto
Why are you even using shitpods
warm silo
idk, i kinda like it
silent drum
which cds count as active mit for the purposes of mechanics? shield block ofc and?
sick sentinel
avoid on use avoid weird procs as a rule
lusty grotto
Shield block only, there are no AM checks on bfa
fickle urchin
wasnt fetid one?
lusty grotto
No
warm silo
Thanks guys
cinder roost
I'm looking at Sivara/Behemoth logs of similar length and Devastator always yield equivalent or more rage than BV, really makes you think
lusty grotto
Am checks mean legion like am checks
warm silo
What about essences then? I think i have all at rank3 or even 4 😛
fickle urchin
if you were like... at fetid a little undergeared, like in a top guild (not me lol), wouldnt he kinda near-1shot or 1shot a tank without any cd up?
lusty grotto
CD does not mean am
fickle urchin
during last 50%
ah fuck it, i didnt even play legion
i guess i dont know what you are talking about then
lusty grotto
A warriors main active mitigation in bfa is without a doubt, SB
Or I should say, blocking cause we want to include LS with bolster
fickle urchin
blocking wasnt neccesary to survive as offtank on enraged fetid?
silent drum
in legion there were raid mechanics that would basically one shot you if you didnt have mit up
lusty grotto
Still not an am check
silent drum
it wasnt tied to the effectiveness of the mitigation
fickle urchin
fetid would probably kill you though, if you didnt have something up
silent drum
for example blood dk death strike would count as active mit for 4 seconds after you cast it, even though death strike itself doesnt actually do anything past the self heal
lusty grotto
Just drop it, it's not the same thing
fickle urchin
but ok i guess its not an AM check in the sense of seperate scripting to fuck with you just cause you dont have AM up
fickle urchin
legion AM checks sound lame.
lusty grotto
There were abilities literally flagged AM
That you had to use in keys for example or the boss gained something, like brh shear
Or you got an ass raping debuff
You could use IP because iirc it was flagged as an AM
fickle urchin
can you stop necrotic from applying with the tank raid essence?
fickle urchin
ok then i cant think of any AM checks a described here then
nah i mean, popping a cd to stop the debuff
(that everyone has access to, not just dwarves)
analog creek
Dagrul in nelths lair, if AM was not active the molten strike would punt you. The 2nd boss in Black rook, would debuff you with the tank strike if AM was not up.
lusty grotto
Dwarves couldn't drop necrotic in legion
west kayak
Dark Iron Dwarf Racial, that will clear Necrotic.
fickle urchin
like my idea was, if the essence reduces dmg taken from a strike to 0, does it still apply necrotic. if no, then thats an AM check of sorts.
but since yes, then nope
analog creek
If the attack lands, it applies necrotic
fickle urchin
it does sound really dumb yes. Bfa is better in that regard. Lets you pick how you mitigate and just throws something at you to deal with.
lusty grotto
AM in legion were literally class abilities that had a flag turned on
analog creek
Active mitigation is a status effect, there are abilities that do things on a binary system
fickle urchin
expecially deathstrike counting as AM is just arbitrary and gamey nonsense.
warm silo
for mythic plus
lusty grotto
Icy veins guide
fickle urchin
I like the snare one on necrotic weeks
analog creek
Deathstrike actually has a buff associated with it that gives the status effect for 3 seconds 'recently used deathstrike' that buff was also gained by using morrowrend
lusty grotto
Yeah
Didn't it used to have an absorb
I might be thinking of something else
I only bdkd for the mage tower
sand egret
it was their mastery that factored in
fyi
AM checks were dope. AM abilities were poorly designed in respect to this mechanic.
sick sentinel
bro
Weren't you there for the entire conversation
I said sims overvalue OP as it's full stacks entire sim
you lose half it's value basically in M+
warm plinth
@west kayak FYI, both dwarf racials remove the same things; DID is mentioned more often because Fireblood is arguably a better racial than Stoneform overall.
west kayak
@warm plinth Ahh, good to know. Thank you.
warm plinth
@sick sentinel You do lose stacks from OP in sims.
lusty grotto
warm plinth
You can't even use PP as a tank, can you?
mental crag
haha
warm plinth
I didn't understand what you said Mvp
warm plinth
Nim did you hit your head?
strong forum
hah you are funny joke man
lusty grotto
i made a funy
warm plinth
Nom are you seeing anywhere in the sim that shows OP at full stacks the whole time?
Because I'm not
strong forum
im not very well versed with sims
warm plinth
And you take damage in the sim so...
lusty grotto
ghahs why are you even bothering
warm plinth
Because I like knowing
lusty grotto
and knowing is half the battle
strong forum
but i would assume @ionic fern has it so you are losing OP at the maximum speed in multiple target sims
sick sentinel
OP trash run HmC, best trait
lusty grotto
smh
sick sentinel
it tru
lusty grotto
SMH
ionic fern
Sup
warm plinth
Does OP lose stacks from damage taken in sims
sick sentinel
Can OP smite the enemies with the force of heavens? nah
lusty grotto
i mean i dont think you take damage in sims
warm plinth
You do
lusty grotto
hmm
ionic fern
You do
lusty grotto
oh right
warm plinth
You have to or our sims wouldn't work properly
lusty grotto
ya ya
strong forum
so if OP sims better than UF
it does account the loss of stacks from dmg
so it is better?
lusty grotto
but wait, mwahi hasn't responded
i can hear him shuffling through his notes
next time on ProtectionBall Z, mwahi still looking through his notes, will he respond to Ghash's question? Tune in to find out!
sick sentinel
why do I keep thinking UF stands for ultra fury
warm plinth
Because
lusty grotto
silly you, its ultra-fiolet
warm plinth
Or maybe it's UHF? Ultra-High Frequency?
lusty grotto
its actually violet but said in a thick german accent
warm plinth
Maybe it's Unlovable Face
strong forum
unstoppable force
warm plinth
I think the important lesson we can all take away from this is that acronyms are meaningless without context.
strong forum
ah shit already said
sick sentinel
also when did OP start losing stacks when u take damage? is that something new or am I crazy and never read that part?
lusty grotto
@jagged bay have a nice weekend!
warm plinth
You probably just never read that part
strong forum
you cant read
warm plinth
jagged bay
thanks you too! 🙂
sick sentinel
warm plinth
You have to turn it off first, everyone knows that
strong forum
pro gamer mistake
warm plinth
Mwahi is fucking deep diving in his notes right now
warm plinth
He went spelunking
sick sentinel
turning my monitor on sadly won't turn on my subscription
warm plinth
Oof
warm plinth
Guess I'm not doing the weekly at all this week D:
ionic fern
Ugh
I am halfway doing other stuff
I wanna say that it just loses stacks once every 1s.
Not from damage taken. E.g most of it's durations should be 25s
You can check it in sims
If it is.
ionic fern
Easiest way to double check
Just set your role to "attack"
role=attack means that your profile won't face any tank mechanic
no damage taken, no dummy attacking you, etc.
Jeh, looks like 1 stack per second not affected by damage.
silent drum
op loses 1 stack per sec
loses 1 additional when you get hit
but that only happens a max of once per second
warm plinth
Yes, we know that. We were trying to determine if the sims reflected both stack losses.
lethal plaza
lusty grotto
👀
sick sentinel
Any1 mind taking some time and explain some shit to an old timer who apparently have no clue what he's doing but thought he did? xD Riki was awesome and gave me a runby of the blockvalue stat and that discussion that was earlier today. I still seem to have alot to learn and grasp, any1 feel up to the task of trying to teach an old dog some new tricks? 😩
lethal plaza
seems pretty marginal? The OP thing
warm plinth
It's not marginal; it means sims are literally doubling the value of OP @lethal plaza because you're losing stacks half as often.
lethal plaza
I must be missing something. Those 2 images Mwahi posted look pretty marginal.
warm plinth
They're identical; he was proving the fact that sims don't calculate damage taken for OP
Not quite identical; there are tiny differences because sims aren't perfect
It loses the 1 stack per second that it always does, but not the additional 1 per second from being hit
lethal plaza
Oh, thought the top one was with the 'taking damage' being implemented.
I see now, thx.
warm plinth
It is, but simcraft apparently does the damage taken differently, or just doesn't have OP programmed to lose stacks because of damage
sick sentinel
Heh
lusty grotto
was checking to see if there's any reported issues
hmm
i wonder
mwahi, could this be fixed via the APL?
hmm
that was a dumb question
it can't be fixed via the APL
valid dirge
How good is Dream's End for prot? The one hand from the raid
valid dirge
Havent really seen any other prot with it, hence me asking
lusty grotto
thats because we usually use the highest ilvl 1 hander
because its not worth sacrificing ilvl over a lower ilvl weapon
so if they get a TF 1 hander, they won't drop it over Dream's end
but at equal ilvl, dreams end is the winner
valid dirge
Fair
lusty grotto
if you look here
you'll see most of the top dps parses
have it equipped
it's a dps weapon
for dps purposes
if you're asking about defensiveness...
ilvl will also win
valid dirge
Yea ofc, just asking if its good, appreciate the answer :)
lusty grotto
orzagoa weapon might be decent-ish for defensive purposes but again, ilvl > all on weapons
@warm plinth @ionic fern
read the TODO
😂
analog creek
Lack of access to the mythic version is a big barrier for many atm, as opposed to the first boss dropping a 1h
lusty grotto
i wonder if ill have time this weekend to make a PR with that change
brazen sequoia
think we'll get back gladiator stance at any point?
sand egret
Most likely not
brazen sequoia
rip
lusty grotto
it was fun when it was live, but i don't miss it
warm plinth
That’s pretty funny @lusty grotto
sick sentinel
@lusty grotto will it even be worth it?
sick sentinel
you don't take damage in a patchwerk sim
sick sentinel
am I not in fury
squint emoji
f
pillow attacks tank yeah
pull request isn't necessary though
buff data is usually only manually written when grabbing from the db dump doesn't work properly
sick sentinel
simc grabs spell data though a dump made by decrypting the data files in storage
lusty grotto
yeah i saw that
sick sentinel
the pictures show that losing stacks while taking damage is already functional
there's no code that needs to be written when the spell dbc works fine
lusty grotto
im not sure if that's accurate though
sick sentinel
@ionic fern i haven't read the guide. The reason being that i have all the basics more or less 110%, it's just the indepth things i've apparently lived under a rock so i've missed all the good and more important stuff, just like the block value things discussed earlier here. And i'm not a friend of icyveins at all and kinda do all i can to avoid it tbh 😛
@warm silo Alot of those questions today, depends on what ur running and if u want it more towards survivability or towards dmg
tough verge
I use visions major, lucid and anima minor for M+
tough verge
works great for me, maintain max stacks most of the time and take healing. I use either that or suppression for free haste
warm plinth
@sick sentinel How are you getting that it is taking stacks from damage out of those pictures? They both show the same exact information despite one having damage taken and the other not
warm plinth
By .35% lol. It would be a larger difference than that if the stack reduction from attacks were happening
sick sentinel
the internal minimax is also different by about 17 seconds
well if it doesn't work, by all means write it
I'm happy to be wrong if it stifles misinformation
I've never once analyzed OP stacks in a fight, so :p
warm plinth
I'll analyze your OP stacks
cloud rose
Vision in Major and Lucid Dreams in Minor for m+ (in general) right?
warm plinth
Yeah, it's a good general choice
cloud rose
Cheers
analog creek
I prefer vision major, null/cof/lucid minor
Null is a dungeon by dungeon and affix choice
C&S is a decent minor as well
Any of those 4 will work out well
exotic spoke
cof minor is blah usually
warm plinth
Yeah if you're gonna go CoF, use the major and do Vision minor
warm plinth
No one is arguing that. But if you are gonna use CoF, then you're worried about ST damage, in which case you might as well use the major
exotic spoke
this week i'd use vop, Aegis, CNS
warm plinth
I use my Central Nervous System every week 😉
Liking my mag'har war 👍
Not as good as dorf unfortunately
west kayak
I always end up using CoF/Null for my setup. I know I should use VoP in some sense but sims show it to be lower for me.
exotic spoke
Its not always about sims
west kayak
So VoP/Null would be a better choice you think? I dont run Mythic Raids and I only go to +12 keys as I dont have the time for progression/pushing.
random urchin
At +12 it doesn’t really matter too much what essences you’re running.
languid ember
Well are you only simming Patchwerk? M+ dungeons aren't really Patchwerk except the bosses
undone sun
but also sims that try to replicate dungeons aren't the most accurate
languid ember
Yeah I'm just saying I don't think there's a reason to not run VoP at least as a minor in m+
tidal blaze
this week i run VoP as major and Aegis as a minor
strong forum
same here
too bad i dont have aegis r3
stopped nazj completely after getting revered
im like 500 off of exalted :hahaa:
exotic spoke
high keys im running vop / aegis
fiery pendant
best red punchcard for prot, haste proc?
onyx abyss
Aegis over c&s?
sand egret
in your typical pack size, aegis provides more Vers and the rank 3 also gives you a heal.
tidal blaze
indeed
Best red punchcard is the haste proc indeed. From mechagon with 1200 haste increase
south yarrow
olive lotus
430 edict, 414 pocket (with only 405 subroutine overclock), 430 Rezan. Which 2 for mythic plus?
strong forum
Edict and rezan
olive lotus
If I get the 415 overclock does it change it?
fickle urchin
is it ok to have empty globals when running devastator?
sick sentinel
Wait, why devastator?
fickle urchin
sims higher on ST
ionic fern
Anyone in game right now and can tell me their VoP percentage + neck lvl?
warm plinth
Don't have VoP on my war 😢
cinder roost
@fickle urchin Yes, it happens
fickle urchin
thanks
pearl hill
19.5% at 65
languid ember
It's just 0.3 x neck level
steep escarp
Hey guys. Most likely a stupid question, but is a 445 Coral worth anything for prot? more specifically in m+
languid ember
I would say it's probably not very good. It takes time to stack it up, and there are 20 seconds before you can even extract it in the first place, so for packs I doubt it's worth it
steep escarp
Yeah, my thought aswell
languid ember
It extracts when the mob dies too, but still
Something like inkpod would probably be better in that case
mighty goblet
Hey guys, i main fury war but am looking to switch to prot. I have a 415 sword and a 405 shield(not currently equipped) which both have vers and haste. I reforged all my azerite gear to prot but am still extremely squishy. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/bloodhoof/hemenss
Any ideas why?
languid ember
Kinda hard to tell from your profile since you're in fury gear
mighty goblet
Kk ill reforge all my gear and message when my profile updates
languid ember
What type of content are you running?
mighty goblet
Sorry, i don’t understand what u mean
mighty goblet
Mythic 7-9s
warm plinth
Gonna go out on a limb and say you’re prioritizing Ignore Pain
languid ember
Yeah, I guess the most common mistake new prots make is shield block uptime
You could definitely do with a better shield though 🙂
Since that's where you get the majority of your block/armor
mighty goblet
Ye thats what im being told by my friends, but would this really make that much of a difference?
warm plinth
Yes
mighty goblet
Ok, ill try get a better shield then 😉 thanks guys
warm plinth
Well
The ilevel of your shield is a suggestion, not why you feel squishy
I have a 395 shield and I don’t feel squishy in 9-11
warm plinth
And I’m 10 ilevel lower than you overall as well
mighty goblet
Hmm
mighty goblet
As in recording?
warm plinth
No like warcraftlogs
mighty goblet
Kk
languid ember
You most likely feel "squishy" though when your shield block drops
You should have enough haste to be able to use 3 consecutive shield blocks
After that you need to pop last stand if it's a long fight
Or kite
Or shield wall, or do something
warm plinth
I have like 14%
languid ember
You probably need more I'm not 100% sure of how much you need to get 3 uses of shield block with no cooldown
But you also have into the fray talent to buffer it
I'm mostly offspec prot these days 😂
But in most situations you shouldn't pop ignore pain at the expense of dropping your shield block
And make sure you don't use shield block while last stand is up (it's tricky to get used to, honestly I still do it sometimes)
mighty goblet
Ok, ill try using all this advice and let u guys know the outcome. Ill also attempt mythic+ and log it here
opal snow
languid ember
More haste is always better, but I guess you ideally want 25%+ since the base recharge rate on shield block is 16 seconds and you want to bring it down to at least 12
Into the fray also gives you haste though, which you will have most of the time
Someone smarter can probably give a better answer though
mighty goblet
Okay so i was just looking at my azerite traits, and although i have reforged my gear for prot...its still fury gear so the traits arent the best for prot. Would this make me so squishy?
languid ember
I mean there are definitely traits that will help you survive better than others, which major ones do you have?
mighty goblet
Brace for impace, bloodsport, azerite veins
languid ember
Bloodsport isn't great in general
You want to aim for 3 x Bastion of Might for m+ probably
And at least one Thundering Crash
But to survive you probably just need to pay more attention to your shield block uptime, and make sure mobs don't get behind you 🙂
mighty goblet
errm wait wat? xD
mobs do more damage being for prot?
am i stupid for not knwoing that lol
languid ember
You can't block attacks from the back
languid ember
Same as dodge and parry etc as far as I know
mystic pilot
so i just got a 435 vial from UR, and my current trinkets are 440 fang and 445 razdunks, and my sim is saying its 1kdps decrease
surely that's not right is it
languid ember
You should change the bloodsport in your helm to Bastion of Might
And probably the Brace for Impact in your chest to Deafening Crash
mighty goblet
kk
languid ember
Maybe it's correct for ST @mystic pilot but are you mostly running m+?
mighty goblet
ill try a mythic dungeon now then and see what happens, how do i log it?
languid ember
I guess vial is probably strong for it's synergy with Avatar in AoE
mystic pilot
yeah it says dps decrease for m+
languid ember
Are you simming dungeon slice?
mystic pilot
yup
oblique garnet
fang is not good on a warrior
languid ember
@mighty goblet to log your dungeons you need a warcraftlogs account
And you need to download the warcraftlogs uploader
terse dragon
How much haste wound you recommend for high keys?
warm plinth
As much as you can get
languid ember
^
warm plinth
Without sacrificing item level
@mystic pilot Fang is decent damage; it's not great for us because you can't block/dodge/parry during the channel, and it effectively roots you
terse dragon
I'm at 22%
warm plinth
That's fine. Don't get hung up on "I need x%" because x doesn't exist.
mighty goblet
ok so i just attempted underrot +9 (my friends key) and was litterally getting one shotted by the first boss. I didnt get the logs to work but will try +8 and see
astral heath
guys, is vision of perfection the best essence for M+ and why ?
languid ember
Well, the spells she casts are meant to be interrupted
You can spell reflect them though
mighty goblet
kk
warm plinth
That's legit impossible that you were getting 1-shot by that boss. I have been hit by her on +12 tyr keys and taken like 25% HP
languid ember
He probably got hit by the split at the same time
Or stood in melee for the AoE
Or stood in the other spell on the ground
warm plinth
That's what I'm thinking is that he was in the aoe
mighty goblet
Im sorting out logging now so will be able to share with u guys
languid ember
But I mean you'd die to that as fury too
languid ember
Blood feast is a small AoE she casts, if you stand near her during it you will take a lot of damage
And she also casts a spell called Creeping Rot which fires off damage in a direction that you can see on the ground that also hurts a lot
You're meant to avoid them
Even as a tank
And @astral heath Avatar is the bread and butter of prot, it's the reason prot does so much damage in AoE. With Bastion of Might it's also a great defensive ability. VoP = moar uptime, why wouldn't you want that, at least as a minor
upper kindle
So if I'm not actively using my last stand and shield wall in a mythic + am I doing it wrong? I only use last stand a few times and sometimes go a whole run without using shield wall
languid ember
I mean it depends on the level of m+ and how hard you're blasting it I suppose
Last stand serves 2 purposes really, shoring up gaps in shield block and saving you if you're about to die with the HP
undone sun
Sure, it can depends but if you're taking blockable damage you'd still want to optimize blocked hits, which last stand helps with
astral harbor
how could i put 3 skill on a macro ??
Avatar, Ancestral call and demoralizing shout ?
willow scarab
I was in the habit of only using shield wall and last stand in situations where I was basically dead, you have to get into the mentality of using them early to get more use out of them
warm plinth
You can't and you don't want to
lusty grotto
fumeiyo is right
willow scarab
If you’re not using it then you know that you can do a few bigger pulls and plan to use them so that they get more value. The key will be faster
You also use it when it’s not entirely needed to let your healer do some dps
upper kindle
I did a 11 motherlode a bit ago and was only pulling one pack at a time(I'm no so confident at tanking) So next time I should pull bigger and use cds.
Should I treat the weapon active (the one that reduces dmg taken by 10%) the same as a defensive CD such as shield wall
oblique garnet
Smh xentar werent you supposed to go to sleep 8)
languid ember
I started watching a show and answering questions 😂
oblique garnet
lul
languid ember
@upper kindle The thing is, in particular with last stand, you can't see at only as an "oh shit I'm dying button"
With bolster, you block all melee attacks while last stand is up
You don't ever want to let block drop vs melee mobs if you can help it
So usually you can get 3 shield blocks in without gaps, then you need last stand while they recharge
upper kindle
Should the weapon (I think its called paralytic barb) be used as a oh shit CD. It reduces dmg by 10% so not sure how to effectively use it
willow scarab
You can definitely pull bigger, especially in motherlode - once you know more about what the mobs do. Even on 15+ keys there are times where I pull 3 and 4 packs at once. It’s all about good CD usage
I macro the paralytic barb into my engineer belt macro because I don’t like using it
If you want more value out of it you can macro it into your demo shout
languid ember
Well, it's an oh shit button, but obviously it's better if you can use it proactively vs incoming damage that you know will bring you close to death
Let's say you get taken to 10% by some mob abilities, shield wall is much less likely to save you if you use it then rather than when the abilities are about to hit
It's just about learning what the mobs do and how much damage you can take
But yeah if you're not using it at all, you're probably doing it wrong. Even if you're in a dungeon where you have very little chance of dying, using shield wall can allow your healer to do more DPS
As someone said before
upper kindle
Ok thanks, I'm deciding to move on from just casually doing +10 -12s so I need to fix my gameplay
languid ember
Yep no, prob, practice makes perfect
upper kindle
First I need to get more confident, I came back from a break in 8.1 I managed to +3 a 12 and was too scared to do the 15 haha
languid ember
Also, I know you didn't mention it, but make sure you use demoralizing shout pretty much on cooldown, especially because booming voice makes it increase your DPS
jagged path
better to upgrade weapon 400->410, or shield 395->410?
oblique garnet
shield
languid ember
Yeah shield unless all you're interested in is doing more DPS in trivial content I guess :p
jagged path
ty
balmy narwhal
finally got my 3rd slot for essence
so for M+ Vision memory and aegis or null barrier is a good combo right?
for high keys
sick sentinel
for ashvane do you save coral for anything
if you are just going for 3 phase
or do you still save it for breakage
tawny maple
Yo is BRM monk taunt different or something? I keep getting immune
chilly brook
No
warm plinth
If you taunt 4 times within 18 seconds of each other, then they're immune to taunt
chilly brook
Tell your cotank to stop spamming taunt
sick sentinel
taunt has dr
tawny maple
Ah I see
chilly brook
And learn to DPS
tawny maple
I never even thought about the other guy taunting lmao
chilly brook
Yea if he’s weaving in taunt to keep aggro then that’s the problem
Which is probably the case
Since a lot of tanks can’t be bothered to actually do damage
tranquil copper
for M+ do we want to pick dps azerite traits like HMC and OP over defense?
warm plinth
Haste is a defensive stat, which means it's not exactly a pure offensive trait.
chilly brook
^
That as well
Basically, go offensive if you have good cd usage and know the class well and aren’t getting eaten alive. If it’s somewhere south of that goal, you might want to consider the more defensive traits and look at where you can improve your play as a warrior
tawny maple
Yeah thanks for the quick answer guys Im doing a tanking with a pug and couldnt understand why BRM couldnt taunt off him lmao
chilly brook
👍🏻
spice ferry
@sick sentinel if your running ink it’s probably worth trying to guarantee it to crit with coral. Otherwise just been stacking for breaks
Ink crit ends up around 800k damage
sick sentinel
I don't have ink
And I meant for parsing
not for dps checking it
We kill it every week, just want to get max damage
modern brook
is mechagon a fucking joke or is it me
spice ferry
aaah, id guess cyclo + coral then
chilly brook
@modern brook got any idea on what the go to buff for zandalari is?
chilly brook
aight
oblique garnet
If you want to parse on ashvane i dont think you can do it in 3phase