Damage taken I mean
#protection
exotic spoke
south yarrow
I'm not advocating null barrier because it's good defensively
but because it's BiS offensively
exotic spoke
That’s a key point for taking it later - but again I’d have to sim and can’t for another couple hours
rapid jewel
its 2k HPS, still the same value as 40 rage per min from Lucid defence wise
rapid jewel
dps and HPS
south yarrow
Well I guess it's also HPS
But that's not the point
I linked this log in response to Late saying there's better DPS options, and you're trying to refute my point by saying Lucid offers the same HPS? 🤦🏿
lusty grotto
why are you so defensive
rapid jewel
was talking to riki
lapis delta
he's not defensive. He's just stating a fact
exotic spoke
Hey may have been saying it to me bro.
You’re at like a 9 right now. You may need to bring it down a bit
lusty grotto
hes passively aggressive
lapis delta
CoF r3 and null r3 are by far your best choices
exotic spoke
Which he was, also humtol, it’s a little less than 40 per minute. 2 PPM, if you get them both on IP then sure, but it’s probably closer to 33-35 rage per minute
Depending on luck / rng
rapid jewel
I would not call this "passive" aggressive nim 😃
lusty grotto
yeah for sure
lapis delta
honestly making a statement like that does warrant the response he gave
lusty grotto
its fine
rapid jewel
yeah not a huge fan of lucid, but our options on normal damage fights are kinda shitty and most of all: boring as fuck.
rapid jewel
did you took a bubble early? My Null idels at roughly 1.6k or do you step delibeartly in the thorns?
rapid jewel
ah ok, that did boost your null damage quite a bit
dark lark
for comparing ilvl vs socket, people always say "add up the stats". so do i literally go x str + x sta + x armor + x secondaries and compare that x str + x sta + x armor + x secondaries + socket(50 secondary)?
lusty grotto
add up secondaries
lapis delta
I wouldn't say it was by quite a bit but it does help yes
empty inlet
just wear highest ilvl on pieces thats not ring
lapis delta
regardless of it being the best offensive essence it's still easy to see how much value it has defensively. Having r3 is just a massive plus
exotic spoke
We don’t really need more defensives in a lot of circumstances
lusty grotto
you cant just make a general statement like that
rapid jewel
yeah grinded r3 last week, now I am titanforging yellow cards for mecha trinket
robust furnace
Hey all - I recieved a 440 Mchimba's Ritual Bandages today in my chest. I haven't come across this being on any BiS lists with Edicts/Urchin. Is it a trinket I should consider using over my 430 Rezan?https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/stormrage/aitia
lusty grotto
because bandages are crap <--- why you don't find it in any lists
therefore you should use the other 2 430s
exotic spoke
Grats on your expulsom
oblique garnet
null does giga damage on ashvane if you take a stack early on
lusty grotto
grats on your 70 gold 😃
exotic spoke
(After equipping it to both slots)
lapis delta
depends on the fight? The example given was sivara and the question was- which minor essence is better defensively for it?
robust furnace
yep figured as much lol
west kayak
No fair, I too am 431 but with a 400ilvl shield...
robust furnace
thanks, just wanted to make sure i wasn't missing anything!
exotic spoke
Nim, an expulsom goes for like 1k lol
lusty grotto
lapis delta
@oblique garnet didn't take a stack early on and still did massive damage. Literally linked you my rank1 log there
exotic spoke
@lapis delta the question was offensively. Defensives don’t really matter for that boss lol
lusty grotto
🤷
rapid jewel
btw: what is the range of hte barrier explosion?
south yarrow
8 yards @rapid jewel
lapis delta
it still procs relatively well, regardless of having that stack or not. You can see the gaps where it doesn't and how it obviously triggers on cd after having 1 stack of waterlogged
lusty grotto
nobody is saying it's bad
lapis delta
but @oblique garnet which other options were you going to mention regarding ashvane offensively? Because I really don't see anything being stronger than null
hasty sapphire
about to tank mythic orgozola, why is almost every warrior taking loyal to the end on this fight?
is it pure def value?
south yarrow
I didn't mean to come off as aggressive, I just wanted to argue that Null r3 is BiS for DPS on every single fight in TEP
He meant Sivara probs Late
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lapis delta
lapis delta
🤔
lusty grotto
greater than
greater or equal than
which one would you not run it on -> anything after ashvane
reading comprehension
lapis delta
he clearly said on first boss he wouldn't run null barrier because there are other options that he can get more damage from
soft yew
@lapis delta devastator talent the new go to? if so for raids only or overall? ty in advance
rapid jewel
raids yes, m+ no
south yarrow
you said ashvane @lapis delta, not sivara
lapis delta
no not overall. If you wanna see your pretty numbers up there for single target then that's what you aim for. But in cases like m+ or defensively in most cases booming voice is your friend
south yarrow
but you meant sivara probs
soft yew
ty
south yarrow
Still though, it's odd to say that you should run it on Ashvane and not Sivara
lapis delta
mentioning ashvane was purely demonstrative of the value it can have
lapis delta
but sivara has even more potential for it. Which is why I'm wondering what other options are we considering here for sivara?
lusty grotto
and reiterating: we have known r3 null was great damage
rapid jewel
did you run it on radiance to? Does it work well there?
lusty grotto
so the whole discussion right now is whether there are better or not for specific fights
i would think it runs well on p2s
can pad some damage with the adds
and since it will be get destroyed rather quickly
obviously it depends on your raid dps though
rapid jewel
yeah but p2 is just a minority of the fight. Also dont know whee it is in priority of the shields and if the boss aoe reliable triggers it.
lusty grotto
yeah
lapis delta
you can proc it pretty reliably on radiance, especially add phase but not as strong as it can be on other fights sadly
lusty grotto
i suppose you would have to get hit by tornados
rapid jewel
i assume a tornado hit can easily a dps loss with a bad knock
lapis delta
you can insta intervene a melee on your side
as you go up
same as what you do when getting hit by the tank swap mechanic
rapid jewel
still you will miss a few autos here and there, also SB procs. Not sure if it is worth doing
also my raidlead would fuck my ass if i take tornados all of a sudden and tell him: I need barrier procs!
unkempt delta
For m+ I was wondering if I should take a second deafening or first brace for impact.
lusty grotto
whats your shield ilvl
unkempt delta
430
lusty grotto
do you feel like you need to be more defensive?
if so go BFI
if not then you can probably go 2 DC
unkempt delta
Okay sounds good I will play around got my third bastion today so i will see how i feel
ty
lusty grotto
yeah well bastion does not matter for that choice
strong forum
i love bfi
i wish i could go like 3x bom 1x dc 1x bfi 1x ms or even 2x bfi
you can slap so hard in ST
even in m+
tranquil sand
Hello. We are progressing Ashvane and we had our tank die when he took the second barnacle smash (he had 1 stack already)
I want to ask a few things:
- In general i see lots of logs where people only take a second stack when they had taken the last smash in coral shield phase, and the broken coral shield casts comes quickly. We have been generally rotating on 2 stacks however, regardless of phase. is that wrong, or is there any reason to do it instead?
- here is a log where said tank died. I want to investigate if there was any mechanical error on his part or this might just repeat itself if he is unlucky with rng (those were his words): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RMy9WJdHqkTmrcZj/#fight=12&type=auras&spells=debuffs&ability=296725
Overall not looking to bash him, but just to know how to avoid such a thing from happening again.
round vortex
Has this trinket just been overlooked completely in all the guides for any reason? I got it in my chest and a 200k shield on use seems pretty baller. It stronger than a monk cocoon and shorter CD. Somehow in icy veins it’s not even in the list for defensive trinkets - even gore’s is in there?
lusty grotto
its a bad trinket
sick sentinel
You can take like 4 barnacle smashes in a row and be fine @tranquil sand
round vortex
Thanks Nimchip. Everything is super clear now.
sick sentinel
Can't see logs rn because phone but I can answer questions
lusty grotto
one sec im looking at the logs
round vortex
How on earth is a 200k on use shield “bad”
sick sentinel
Tanks should decide who breaks corals and who's taking bubbles
sick sentinel
So he's dying because he's garbage
lapis delta
@tranquil sand I think I found your problem on the warrior deaths https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RMy9WJdHqkTmrcZj/#fight=12&type=casts&source=10&ability=2565
lusty grotto
of course it does
tranquil sand
sorry im a priest, i thought it was more like an ability that isnt reduced by block
lusty grotto
in fact
tranquil sand
thank you very much
lusty grotto
his block for just about everything
sick sentinel
Up to 90% dr
lusty grotto
is retardedly low
not just smashes
but also for melee hits
25% effective uptime? uhhh..
tranquil sand
alright thanks
sick sentinel
@round vortex bandages are garbage
lusty grotto
23% on normal hits
vestal edge
yeah lol i know i have 440 but have nothing to use instead that isnt like 420 :/
round vortex
Would you care to explain why? I wouldn’t say garbage is just say not the best. How can you put an on use crit trinket above it defensively?
lusty grotto
what possible reason would you have to take a 200k hit, not move, and not do absolutely fuck all for 6 seconds? it's garbage because there are better
@round vortex
because a crit trinket will provide you with parry, while still increasing your damage
unkempt palm
Personally, how low would you guys go for haste % unbuffed...cause right now I’m at 13% unbuffed and I’m not a fan but my gear has been more towards mastery lately
round vortex
Obviously id prefer like a rezans or jes. And the damage part of your argument is meaningless when I’m talking defensively
lusty grotto
and.. you can do stuff while using it
sick sentinel
We're about damage smoothing and not big hits or hps
lusty grotto
so you would rather take an unmitigated 200k hit? because you can't shield block or IP?
what tank busters are you tanking that you need that for?
round vortex
I was playing with it this morning - I could do stuff with the bandage up?
vestal edge
you never want to go full turtle defensive while it is ez mode ur not really helping the group. tanks should always be trying to do as much damage as possible while still being survivable enough for the content. ESPECIALLY with warrior tanks
round vortex
And it’s more of an oh shit button. I’m just saying it doesn’t feel garbage to use.
lusty grotto
doesn't matter, wear your highest ilvl @unkempt palm
vestal edge
i use it personally and its fine for now but im replacing it asap
exotic spoke
That was really fucking weird
round vortex
There are like 10 other points you guys are trying to make assuming I’m a dumbass... I asked a pretty specific question about the defensive ranking of the trinket. Not how viable it is compared to others overall.
vestal edge
i mean yeah if u pop it at the right time nothings gonna kill u except for guaranteed one shot mechanics
sick sentinel
But depending on what you have, I'd rather use sim something else
sand egret
@round vortex that trinket also got a closet buff that wasn't mentioned btw. As far as I know, Bandages is the only shielding trinket that is applied after IP as well, so it actually gains value as long as it persists and IP is >= 1
round vortex
I’m thinking along the lines of not just one shots. Imagine if your raid is getting low on a Prog kill and you need to live for a few seconds to let healers reposition or something like that. Surviving situationally can really be a huge deal over doing a couple more IP’s over a course of a fight at times where you aren’t threatened.
I just can’t see how some of the trinkets in the defensive trinket list made it there when this didn’t.
unkempt palm
@lusty grotto if I put on highest ilvl gear I’ll be at 432 but I’ll only have 9% haste unbuffed about 18% crit 50% mastery and 4% vers....all unbuffed. I know our secondaries are all close together in terms of effectiveness but having haste below double digits just seems so weird to me
lusty grotto
its not weird
exotic spoke
Baratus, the point they are trying to make is that typically - we don’t need to be fully defensive.
We can and should go offensive for trinkets in a majority of cases.
The reason people consider it garbage is that things that are pure stat sticks often add way more to your character, offensively and defensively than just that shield. You just don’t see that visibly in logs
round vortex
@sand egret That might explain why it felt really powerful to test
sand egret
yeah, it got a ninja buff that no one noticed because it was pretty bad statwise
lusty grotto
i mean if you want a reason why its not on icy veins we can ask @fierce juniper: marok @round vortex is asking why is Mchimba's Ritual Bandages so low on defensive ranking
exotic spoke
Also, if the mobs are dead they don’t do damage.
I mean you’ve made your point. I disagree and wouldn’t use that trinket pretty much ever
sand egret
but for it's intended purpose, it's not bad for how its implemented.
round vortex
Not low - absent completely
lusty grotto
just to be clear
distant crystal
i got 440 bindings from my first s3 cache
lusty grotto
this is a trinket that provides ONLY a defensive benefit
exotic spoke
Progression or farm. I’d use a 430 gore crusted over it - because I have it.
distant crystal
i use it, yolo
round vortex
Soooo frustrated right now. YES Riki I am agreeing with you. I’m not trying to debate overall best trinkets to use
distant crystal
now i'm skittish about rolling prot spec for cache cause i'm scared of another tank trinket
lusty grotto
and btw, i got fucking confused with merektha's
distant crystal
but i want a shield/weap 😄
round vortex
I am trying to understand why it was missed on the “best trinkets defensively” list
D e f e n s i v e l y
exotic spoke
If you had anything else 430+ range I’d use it over that.
Because it’s not good. Because at some point it stops mattering the difference between 11th and 12th. Because for its Ilvl it could be worse than others 5, 10, 15 ilvls or whatever lower.
warm plinth
Well, it was recently buffed, and even defensively it doesn't have much value unless you need it consistently.
round vortex
To best honest the best value this trinket has for me is being 445 lets me roll for dps trinkets to trade my raiders.
distant crystal
200K hp shield is a nice extra button to have
exotic spoke
All you need to do for that is equip it in both slots and then scrap it (in fairness it’s what I did for a 445 sporepod)
distant crystal
could be worse
warm plinth
Keep in mind, if you don't use it on CD, it automatically loses value because you could be gaining another effect that's always useful.
sand egret
somewhat true
round vortex
Don’t get me started on my titanforge sporepod...
exotic spoke
So far my chests have been literal garbage. Let’s see if it continues
But, baratus, at what point do you draw the line in terms of best trinket (defensively) IE what ranking
11th? 12th? 17th? 21st?
vestal edge
doesnt it give strength
round vortex
Anyway don’t worry about the question. Forget I asked. This is a futile conversation at this point
floral notch
hey guys, i was asking my self , in wich way does bastion of might stack?
sand egret
honestly i'd like to see it re-evaluated in respect to its recent buffs and with the understanding that it doesn't work like other shields in the game, personally
hardy holly
the mastery stacks
distant crystal
the mastery stacks
exotic spoke
No, it’s not futile, I’m honestly trying to help and I’m curious about your point man.
I’m not trying to be condescending and if I am then I sincerely apologize.
hardy holly
yesterday i finally got my 3x
it's amazing
it literally doubles my mastery % when active
floral notch
thx, but does this make it so valuable?
lusty grotto
i think if you want to know why its not in the defensive list, then ping marok like i did
distant crystal
yes
hardy holly
ofc it does? 40% mastery for free?
distant crystal
get 3 of them if possible, it's real good
round vortex
I’ll do my own calcs 😃 It appears that context is a very difficult thing to get across by text. And the channel scrolls to fast to have any real meaningful discussion about it.
sand egret
our mastery is pretty encompassing/strong. Combined with how we fuel Avatar uptime, the value of the trait goes up the better you play @floral notch
exotic spoke
@round vortex nim is correct. That is the way to get the exact answer you’re looking for.
Mine is more hypothetical - and I believe it’s because it’s much lower in value since it has to be used on cooldown, and it doesn’t provide any passive benefit
round vortex
Why is overall output the way you’d measure it’s use?
sand egret
FWIW Baratus, until you came around I've been the only one who likes that trinket haha
glad to be not the only crazy one 😃
floral notch
thx u guys
round vortex
If you used it and you lived where you might have died it’s then gone straight to the top defensively in my eyes
sand egret
the inverse is
lusty grotto
that's a pretty situational case
warm plinth
But the inverse is true as well
sand egret
if you used it and you woulda lived anyway
lusty grotto
what if you don't have to use it at all?
sand egret
it doesn't have much value
warm plinth
If you never needed it, it was worthless
lusty grotto
^
sand egret
that's the most used counter-point
lusty grotto
its still worthless
round vortex
I’m talking purely in the context of progression
distant crystal
but you could've been PUMPIN
sand egret
but that doesn't look good on the meters 😃
lusty grotto
you can't base something out of a specific scenario
hardy holly
what trinket are u talking about?
round vortex
Yes you can lol
distant crystal
bandages
round vortex
hardy holly
has anyone tried inkpod yet?
lusty grotto
"i use it because i'm gonna diet/tank buster/prolong healer mana"
who knows what else
that's not how ranking lists work
distant crystal
use it and pull bigger packs than you could normally survive
boom it's a dps trinket
lusty grotto
if you lived and never used it, it was worthless
like ghash said
basically only gave you the base STR, that's it
lusty grotto
its not providing you with continuous defensive gains via procs, or whatever
sand egret
and like that's also not true outside of like Urchin
warm plinth
I can see a case made for like...I struggle with x, so I wore it just in case
hardy holly
i think every trinket is useful in certain situations
warm plinth
That way at least there was a potential purpose for it
distant crystal
if you would've lived without the haste from rezan's
and you would've timed the key without the extra dmg
is it useless?
lusty grotto
its kind of the same case as Bwonsamdi's i suppose ghash
sand egret
assuming it proc'd when you needed it*
hardy holly
for example that trinket he showd woudn't be good against king mechagon?
lusty grotto
but we're not talking about keys
sand egret
which is the issue with "constant' cases
lusty grotto
we're talking about raids
hardy holly
i tanked it the third time today, not much of an expert in warrior but
distant crystal
the same thing applies
hardy holly
there is that damn undodjable spell that he casts that does a lot of damage
distant crystal
if you would've lived without rezan's' haste proc, and you would've killed the boss without its dmg
lusty grotto
no Waat, the same thing does not apply
distant crystal
is it useless?
sand egret
i think it'd have more value in raids than keys
sand egret
since mechancis are far more predictable
lusty grotto
it doesn't
distant crystal
:Nimchip:
warm plinth
I mean, you still killed the boss faster, you still parsed better, etc. if you compare it with Rezan's
warm plinth
vs. using Bandages and never using it which has literally no effect whatsoever.
round vortex
I’m talking about Mythic raiding.
warm plinth
If you use Bandages in a Mythic raid setting, and you use it on a big hit or a period of high damage, you will save your healer some stress.
lusty grotto
for example
warm plinth
But would another trinket contribute more to the fight is basically the question
lusty grotto
defensively, remember
warm plinth
Because if the healer wasn't going to be any more stressed if you didn't use bandages, then you basically didn't do anything to help your success, even if you use it on CD
I mean, the fact of the matter is that that is exactly why we don't use defensive trinkets in general
Because usually a trinket that provides damage or a combination of damage and survivabiliity is more useful.
warm plinth
I usually assume that it's 1ppm when it doesn't say. Given the amount of mastery it grants, that seems a reasonable guess.
vestal edge
So what yall think vision and lucid till i get 65 and then what
obtuse venture
is there a point at which you can have too much haste and should maybe gem vers or crit or mastery? i have 44% haste with into the fray up and im thinking maybe swapping some haste gems to crit or something
swift pier
ty
warm plinth
You could probably go with crit gems at that level of haste if you want more damage
Especially for M+
Since it'll be nice defensively too
Just to clarify: there's not really any such thing as too much haste.
vestal edge
i mean i just am an average player i do a 10 every week i clear or almost clear heroic and a FEW mythic bosses and islands and shit
warm plinth
And there's no set number where I'd say okay go for crit.
vestal edge
multiple tens per week
lusty grotto
lucid and vop are good choices, but you could swap a bit depending on what you're doing
as in, good "baseline" choices
hardy holly
question
doesn't haste become less valuable for us with all the avatar uptime we have on avatar?
lusty grotto
no
hardy holly
due to the fact avatar already reduces thunder clap cd by 50%
tender imp
u want haste for shield block
lusty grotto
haste reduces SB cd, increases tick rate on deep wounds, shortens your GCDs to a point... among a lot other things
warm plinth
Haste reduces the GCD as well so it makes no difference if Avatar reduces TClap CD.
Unless you're at over 100% haste
And there are other reasons we want haste besides Thunder Clap's CD
warm plinth
Base GCD is 1.5 seconds. Lowest it can go is .75 seconds, which would be at 100% haste yeah?
obtuse venture
thanks for the answers guys
unborn island
which minors are people using for M+? Lucid? Or is Anima worth it?
lusty grotto
anima is not worth as a minor
glacial flint
im not a block warrior.. im a absorb warrior 😄
warm plinth
😬
cloud rose
The hp boost from anima was nice, but vision in major and lucid in minor helps so much
gritty mural
Quick Question, ( I am sure this was answered previously somewhere) Azerite Traits. Is it worth stacking Bastion of Might or should I treat it at DC
warm plinth
It's worth stacking.
gritty mural
Which is better, Stacking BoM or Getting BSx1
lusty grotto
that's not even a question
gritty mural
I am assuming BoM, But couldnt find anything about BS honestly. Figured id triple check
lusty grotto
yes BoM
gritty mural
Thanks.
shrewd goblet
Is the extra AOE damage from a 2nd DC trait worth taking over a meticulous scheming? I could also switch it to reckless flurry for a little extra ST.
jovial jewel
What is everyone doing in a moderate add dungeon such as temple. Where you can only do a teeming pack or 2
Dps*
?
west kayak
@shrewd goblet You want to keep MS.
exotic spoke
Little, what level key are you talking?
sand egret
oh man, I almost just made my R3 anima into the DPS essence version....
exotic spoke
That would be a rip Blade
sand egret
check your loot spec folks!
exotic spoke
wait, shit, I think I have rank 3?
jovial jewel
I have to make it dps because mythic dps raider 😦
sand egret
its the x15 mats part, you gotta combine em in the loot spec you want
just opened the cache in dps so I wasn't thinking when i clicked it
thank you for that confirmation box
jovial jewel
Kinda sucks trying to keep up with both specsz
With the Essenes, there are so many combinations.
@exotic spoke tos
exotic spoke
What key level?
exotic spoke
I’ll check tonight if we have one. Haven’t done one with teeming but idnguess 23-25
jovial jewel
They melt like reaping so it’s fun
exotic spoke
Since after I got a weapon I was doing 21k in TD last week which still felt low
warm plinth
What a scrub
exotic spoke
At least I didn’t typo scrub
warm plinth
D:
jovial jewel
td last week you group the adds in front and every week probably
Not a great performance measure
exotic spoke
Did 21k in UR 15 last week too
exotic spoke
Haven’t run yet this week, so /shrug
Running after raid tonight.
Bigger pulls
Mana is a crutch
It’s a healer problem
jovial jewel
Almost forgot to rotate tclap with revenge after a week of kiting 😦
exotic spoke
What was two weeks ago?
warm plinth
Raging/explosive/tyrannical
brisk bough
is [Retaliatory Fury] any good?
sand egret
Reckless?
brisk bough
mastery proc and absord
sand egret
oh, no clue. first time hearing of it
brisk bough
pvp trait
sand egret
prob falls in the camp of: not better than your other options
brisk bough
chance on hit to give 428 mastery and absord 3447 dmg
sand egret
what are the other options
brisk bough
bloodsport
sand egret
that it?
brisk bough
yea
sand egret
mastery buff aint bad, if it procs enough
brisk bough
yea that what i though il try the proc rate
lusty grotto
just a reminder
heroic battle for stormgarde is up for NA horde
and it works this time
gives 430 loot
warm plinth
You're 430 loot
exotic spoke
I mean, no it’s not nim. I can’t queue
lusty grotto
dirty alliance
brisk bough
bladesong so far arround 10-15% uptime
balmy narwhal
does anyone use kui nameplates?
exotic spoke
An upgrade from the chest of disappointment
lusty grotto
gz gz!
exotic spoke
Thanks!
lusty grotto
what did you get
lusty grotto
nice
exotic spoke
cant remember the name though lol
lusty grotto
raal's bib?
pastel phoenix
hey guys, for myt+ still crit->haste?
cosmic cape
so phial from raid seems like crap
pastel phoenix
i have haste 17% crit 21% mastery 35% and vers 4%, my stats are bad? whit 411 ilvl
lusty grotto
you're still gearing
ilvl > all
don't worry about stats
until you've plateau'd in ilvls
pastel phoenix
and what about azerite traits?
lusty grotto
ilvl > all
lusty grotto
BoM x 3 after what i said
DC x1 and depending on what you need you may go for more DC or IF
pastel phoenix
and essenses?
lusty grotto
VoP major Lucid minor is the go-to
pastel phoenix
ok ty
lethal plaza
so i got unlucky with 445 randoms and azerite so far
do you NEED 1 bastion if running vop
i can drop to a 430 helm for 1, but i think a 445 would be better still
true plover
Would you guys use a 430 dream's end over a 435 Mas/Vers wep?
exotic spoke
Always use the highest weapon Ilvl.
true plover
Yea just wasn't sure if the 7% was enough to be better
exotic spoke
Use the highest Ilvl, go for 3 BoM and 1 Azerite then pick two
For survivability purposes only 1 DC
slow kiln
So if ur using rank 3 Life force do u use the coral on every life force CD or still just hold it for inkpid
inkpod*
grand drum
wrong spec lol
versed blade
Quick question for you guys. How much dps do you do on average on a single target raid boss fight like ashvane?
I usually do on average around 10k to 11k and I feel like that is severely lacking
@everyone
versed blade
But still 23k is a lot better than me
lusty grotto
everyone is a person btw
versed blade
What do you do?
honest frigate
i ran devastator though which I would not reommend
lusty grotto
you just pinged 1 single person
versed blade
Oh whoops
@honest frigate that’s what did it?
Or was there more?
And also why would you not recommend it?
undone sun
@lusty grotto nah it didn't ping anyone
that's the everyone role, just no active ping
versed blade
My guild is struggling on heroic ashvane
honest frigate
that gave me some dps but if you're only doing 10-11k, it's likely certain rotational issues
you should be prioritizing shield slam over other spells as its your biggest st increase
and when not actively tanking if you really want to amplify your damage use shield block to increase shield slam damage
but don't do it at the cost of your own mitigationb when you tank boss
versed blade
Alright
And yeah my problem is I played very defensively for a while and now that my dmg is now more important I’m struggling to get it up a lot higher
I’m 420 ilvl
I tried taking reckless fury for 1 trait to help because my main dmg came from auto attacks
lusty grotto
uhhh
you're doing mythic ashvane at 420 ilvl?
or is it heroic
first of all
your biggest damage should still be Tclap
not melee
versed blade
Heroic
lusty grotto
and RF works but only if you go Devastator, otherwise it doesnt
undone sun
no?
lusty grotto
i mean optimally thyme
undone sun
then phrase it properly
versed blade
I’m learning
versed blade
What are good ST talents/essences to switch to?
chrome falcon
ok can someone explain to me why you need RF to make deva good
lusty grotto
lucid r3 is a lot of damage
versed blade
Just 1 RF?
chrome falcon
they dont multiply or anything, do they?
versed blade
Even as tank?
lusty grotto
i mean you're looking into dps
versed blade
I have the haste proc one for pocket comp trinket
lusty grotto
chances are you're having no problems surviving it
chrome falcon
"and RF works but only if you go Devastator, otherwise it doesnt" i just don't understand this statement
there's no synergy between the two things
lusty grotto
optimally
chrome falcon
do you just mean that if you go one, you might as well go for the other?
lusty grotto
yes
chrome falcon
ok fair enough
lusty grotto
there's no reason to go "only RF"
and there's no reason to go "only deva"
you want them both
chrome falcon
i'm trying to slam as much dps as i can on ashvane, got myself up to about 20k, going to try to equip mecha trinket too
versed blade
So deva is top thing I can do for extra st dmg
chrome falcon
if you're at around 10-11k i would focus on your rotation more than anything else, but the deva rotation is different to the standard rotation so idk what your best call would be
if your guild needs the dps now then yeah just play with deva for a bit before your raid
because it feels really funky the first time you use it
lusty grotto
honestly though the reason you aren't killing it, is not due to your own dps
but i understand you wanting to help out
tawny maple
445 engy helm, 445 shoulders with BoM on em FeelsGoodMan
lusty grotto
nice nice gz
tawny maple
now if I could get some decent titanforgery going for my trinkets i could stop playing
using a 430 barncle feels bad
thorny saddle
Quick question I have a 415 Dream's end with a socket (crit mastery with the attack speed green text) and a 420 Zocola Crusher (crit vers) which one should I use
lusty grotto
ilvl always on weapon
ilvl always on shield
ilvl always on azerite
and just about everything else except maybe rings and trinkets
but always ALWAYS go for ilvl on weapons and shield
because weapon damage increases the power of all our offensive abilities
and you can only get weapon damage with ilvls
you cannot socket weapon damage or block value, and there is no secondary in the world that compares to what those 2 give you
unborn cloud
TFW you are still using a 370 shield 😦
undone sun
unluck
unborn cloud
435 weapon though so 😐
spice ferry
@thorny saddle 👋
terse dragon
if you have 2 bastion and 1 Tradewinds, would you drop 1 bastion for 1 DC trait, I have 0 DC's atm
this is for keys
15-18 keys
wild stump
for heroic ashvane ya'll lusting at start?
empty inlet
mathmatically what potion shuold i use in dungeon
grand drum
i've been using the cheap str pots
warm plinth
Strength pot or empowered proximity when fighting 4+ mobs
sick sentinel
Wrong
Try using it on your own and then charge on the 4 dummies
And you'll see
It updates dynamically
Secondly, for st pot, pretty sure unbridled fury will do more
empty inlet
empower / strength will do more than bridle st ?
sick sentinel
Sorry brain fart
You can always sim btw
I like to prepot fury and combat pot str
Because some bosses don't last for 2 mins lmao
Especially on fort
sick sentinel
Yeah no I was just typed one whole thinking about the other that's why the "edited"
warm plinth
I was referring to him asking if empower would do more in ST
sick sentinel
And that questing was there because I said "empowered proximity for st"
warm plinth
I understood what you were saying even if you didn't 😉
Oh, gotcha
Then I didn't understand you
So fuck
sick sentinel
LMAO
warm plinth
If I can't trust you, who can I trust
sick sentinel
I literally just woke up
warm plinth
Gonna have to start fucking listening to @exotic spoke or @lusty grotto or some shit
Or worse, @oblique garnet
exotic spoke
Oh whys that?
warm plinth
Because I'm somehow worse than you so you're like a mentor in a weird fucked up way
😂
My brain is legit fried right now. Nazjatar has me a little loopy
upper kindle
what do i do if the other tank keeps losing aggro without me tauning. do i just have to do less dps?
warm plinth
No, they need to get their shit together
upper kindle
oh, they got very mad at me in discord so i thought i was in wrong
sick sentinel
Tell them to get better and do more damage
warm plinth
That's probably the spec with the least excuse to be losing aggro to you lol
Other than another warrior
Was he just like...insanely lower ilevel than you?
upper kindle
not sure, i am 430 and he had a mix of heroic and normal raid gear
brittle owl
there's no excuse to be losing aggro on a boss this tier
ST damage is p close between all tanks
like the others said, he needs to get his shit together
not to mention that prot paladin has the highest max ST damage out of all the tanks
ionic fern
I had a co-tank who DM'ed me to do less DPS last tier due to him losing aggro to me with the:"You're a tank not a DPS, stop focusing on DPS".
He got kicked the next raid.
undone sun
😬
ionic fern
Playing suboptimal since the other tank is bad and can't do the basic rotation is just yikes.
rapid tide
My guild would have gone "yes, we know that this is annoying but he doed have a point and we can't lose progress to you doing too much aggro, so tune it down a bit please"
:^)
brittle owl
yikes
pallid axle
then ur guild is dumb xD
brittle owl
ya, you shouldn't be "the problem"
rapid tide
I left them after 150 wipes on Mekka without hitting p2 more than 3 times.
brittle owl
how tf do you ask someone "please play worse so the other dude feels better"
rapid tide
So ye, no hard feeling anymore but potentially some decisions were questionable.
elder garnet
So, the Deva and RF, is it taken for M+ or only raids?
elder garnet
okie dokie
brittle owl
st damage*
brittle owl
i wouldn't call it parsing, since you would take it for ashvane to meet the dps check
pallid axle
the only thing u can change if ur tanking mate is to incompetent to play his class is trying to "burst dmg" when its ur time to tank other wise they have to step up their game
distant crystal
yeah our MT was just talking about switching to that for ashvane
rapid tide
tbf, I never found it all tooooo appealing.
distant crystal
i guess some combo of bfi/rf with 3 bastions
rapid tide
It's like 1-2k dps for me iirc?
rapid tide
Ye, Crucible is the bigger ST gain + cyclo
But then again, not progging on Ashvane, the 2-3k might matter 😃
ionic fern
Crucible/Barrier R3 is gucci on most things.
distant crystal
we did our first ashvane pulls tonight and it felt so tight
ionic fern
UT is big as well.
rapid tide
Ye, some friends are asking like... 40k for each of their dps?
Seems high to me but I am really out of tune with raiding, only m+ atm so not sure if that's high or not.
ionic fern
rapid tide
🤷
ionic fern
That's 2 tides. 
rapid tide
Tides is insane if you don't drop more than 1 time a fight basically.
distant crystal
over all of our wipes we had dps ranging from 35K to 27K
rapid tide
Mhm. I only have HC for reference, we averaged like 35k there? But obvsly shorter fight 🤔
Ah well on dps.
Taking Healers and TAnks into consideration 30k is actually tighter, ye.
distant crystal
yeah
brittle owl
and generally they will do poop damage
distant crystal
we got a vdh doing basically no dmg for that
brittle owl
so you have to pick up the slack for that 1 spot
rapid tide
Ah well. I kinda like a tightly tuned boss personally.
But no idea, maybe it's miserable 🤷
brittle owl
it get's easier as more people get r3's in stuff
ionic fern
Naa, it's fun.
distant crystal
and a rdruid that needs to swap to feral aff
brittle owl
also inkpods is super good on that fight
ionic fern
Only thing that makes me sad is that my UT is doing poop there cause i'm taking most smashes in a row and healers are all over the place. 😦
brittle owl
then don't run UT on that fight
ionic fern
Nothing better to run.
brittle owl
if you proc the shield regularily other options should be better
ionic fern
IF you have other options.
brittle owl
fair
distant crystal
yeah still beats bloodsport
brittle owl
defensively UT is aight
distant crystal
i was playing it on keys tonight on my disc priest
brittle owl
dps wise it's good on like, 3 tanks
brittle owl
does it feed into atonement?
long gorge
What is RF?
undone sun
reckless flurry
ionic fern
A fury trait that increases their AA damage and reduces the CD of recklessness.
Prot warriors can use it to increase their AA damage and it's one of the better ST traits for us.
brittle owl
azerite trait
long gorge
Oh, you mean protection warriors actually have decent class specific traits? 😥
brittle owl
prot has great traits wdym
long gorge
I’ll go tell my buddies at Acherus to push for nerfs 🤓
brittle owl
the only tank that has class traits that do 0 for ST is DH
long gorge
DK traits are quite shit too 😔
spice ferry
Dk traits are literal garbage
brittle owl
in general yeah, they have the worst ones
brittle owl
dk's are budget dh's atm
this expac has been a rollercoaster for them lmao
from top dog to bottom feeder
in 2 patches
not that it really matters much
long gorge
It matters to those of us playing one 😦
brittle owl
it doesn't matter much in the sense that it's not bad
tank balance is p ok this patch
the diff is minimal
long gorge
Well I think it’s fine but I don’t do very hardcore content in my gnome only community 😏
sick sentinel
@ionic fern we had an alt bdk tank for some of our ashvane pulls
I was not allowed to press avatar until the first tank swap
He also insisted on starting the boss first
long gorge
My prot warrior co tanks starts ashvane while I waddle over just in time to ams the bubble
molten rivet
A BDK starting boss first? Did he drop the first few bashes in the middle then?
Travel time to the edge must be 6+ minutes
long gorge
You know we can buff DA to give us extra speed now right?
sick sentinel
And then he would taunt to take the bash
And that's how we would start the boss
Now I just taunt leap and taunt again
Well, charge,slam, clap,leap I mean but yeah
molten rivet
Do not Ava on pull, but when boss got to the edge instead? Or miss a few claps because of leap?
ionic fern
Oooof...that's sad Kaege.:D
tawny maple
I hate tanking with my current BDK OT because I always pull aggro off him in the opener because warrior, but he insists on pulling first like dude....please...
long gorge
BDK can do pretty amazing ST damage
strong forum
Kaege, you sure you don't wanna come with us? We need a fury now since ours is leaving for job for 4 months
molten rivet
BDK ST is great, but not against an avatar opener 😃
strong forum
Tank ST is great because of so many non class specific resources
ionic fern
My co-tank's a paladin so i'm gucci.:D
strong forum
Terrible terrible design rn tbh
long gorge
That’s not a gnome 😕
strong forum
Like half of our ST dps is random shit from outside sources stacked upon each other
Feels kinda meh
molten rivet
I miss vengeance weaving 😦
strong forum
I mean it's great that they buffed those things with 8.2,but there's so much that you can get that its not as fun
obtuse venture
do you guys think its worth dropping a bastion of might trait for 25 ilvls?
obtuse venture
that god. i had hoped my first mythic azerite roll wouldn't turn out a dud
basically replace 420 chest with 445 chest dropping bastion of might/brace for impact for brace +iron fortress. i only m+ btw
ionic fern
Any day. 👌
ionic fern
"Not terrible".
It's good for m+. 😄
obtuse venture
ok good good. i can now sleep.
rapid tide
:P
vernal stirrup
I'm really debating swapping from main fury to main prot
I have started enjoying tanking a lot more in 8.2 for some reason
vernal stirrup
yea
I already played protection a lot but never enough to warrant coming over for much
rapid tide
Good choice
ionic fern
Iirc @sick sentinel was/is fury as well and prot for some things like m+ etc.
vernal stirrup
I pretty much only fury in raids now
rapid tide
Slam some keys and you won't want to Turn back :D
sick sentinel
Hi I was pinged
sick sentinel
Fury in raids prot in mplus
vernal stirrup
nah I already know prot is the tank for me, I've got a monk and dk at 120 and really don't enjoy them this xpac
so I'll be around probably
sick sentinel
Tanking raids is sleeper
sick sentinel
Tanks were on a vacation
ionic fern
Ah, okay. 😂
sick sentinel
And I'm the 3rd tank in the guild
ionic fern
I thought you became full time prot.
sick sentinel
I just don't tank raids by choice
Fury Kaege : Oh I can't wait for the raid!
Prot Kaege : GET.ME.OUT.
ionic fern
And vica-versa for m+?:D
strong forum
Dps is raid is literally afking
sick sentinel
No lt really
strong forum
What do you mean
sick sentinel
I like dpsing mplus as well
sick sentinel
There are just not enough good tanks
strong forum
Arms is 👌 in m+
sick sentinel
Arms is sleeper lmao
long gorge
Do you guys really think raid mechanics are boring?
ionic fern
Tank ones yes.
strong forum
Never fury forever Arms
long gorge
I love raiding and find m+ boring
strong forum
I like afking in raids, that's why fetid is my favourite boss to tank
long gorge
Too many adds in m+ to even do mechanics
long gorge
There is a lot of perfecting boss mechanics
sick sentinel
And nome I would love to raid with you
if that didn't mean I would have to drop 500 world ranks
sick sentinel
we're toxic as well, just not with gamer words
ionic fern
@long gorge tanking a raid is like...get most tank mechanics/swaps down in the first 5 pulls...after that wait for the rest of the team to get their shit straight in the next 50 pulls.
strong forum
Screamed at him twice yesterday in m+ cuz hes being retarded 🙃
night oxide
Why is Nerf on a crusade to get a nautalus from Siege? he was talking over stream during raid about how its really good for warriors can someone explain that to me?
sick sentinel
what's a nautalus
sick sentinel
it's probably busted for pvp
ionic fern
sick sentinel
for a long time, the BiS trinket for warrior in arenas was the CoS caster trinket
round glade
Which one was that?
sick sentinel
also nerfclap, as good as a player he is, ahem his gearing choices have historically been
** questionable **
@round glade harbringer's something something
round glade
Does not ring a Bell
night oxide
Yea i guess thats true
just funny listening to poetry club raid talking about how its good
and nerf chiming in on how its good
round glade
Aaaah that one
ionic fern
People always follow what influencers say tho..hence why we had the leech/bloodsport/siphoning discussions here.
Among other things.
ionic fern
If one of the streamers would say 'ravager is good for necrotic' we would have a ton of people coming here asking/stating that it's bis and new meta.
undone sun
😂
spice ferry
but ravager is bis for necrotic 🤔
ionic fern
vernal stirrup
all aboard the ravager train
ionic fern
No.
undone sun
ionic fern
Iirc we had someone stating that it's good for Mekka..
Wonder if they gonna state the same for Radiance add phase.
undone sun
NS
round glade
4head
strong forum
For punish for the DR on Radiance
sick sentinel
but shawruss uses 
on necrotic and it works guys
round glade
Please halp
vernal stirrup
yo kind of off topic, but for m+ should I be going aegis of the deep minor or crucible minor, or does it depend on tyrannical fortified
undone sun
dodge and parry
separate rolls 😴
vernal stirrup
I generally stick with crucible for the boss damage
brittle owl
doesn't matter, still a cute meme
ionic fern
What are you using as major?
brittle owl
if you have acces to C&S use that instead
vernal stirrup
vop
brittle owl
as minor
ionic fern
Mwkay
vernal stirrup
I don't have cos, I don't ever pvp really
strong forum
What does Cs even give as minor
vernal stirrup
c&s*
strong forum
Ah.
vernal stirrup
yea I just don't really have the drive go do pvp for it
ionic fern
Sphere minor is pretty much free haste as well 👌
vernal stirrup
so my options are basically aegis crucible or lucid
brittle owl
unless you reaaally need the vers to survivee
but you need to do super high keys for that to be the case
brittle owl
atm you'll still fail keys because of dps rather than surv i feel
sphere is easy to get
vernal stirrup
yea I don't have problems surviving, and I didn't realize sphere was that easy for rank 1
brittle owl
speeed
brittle owl
major is good for necro as well if you want the snare
and the attack speed slow is usefull for slowing stacks
but idk how good vop is to warrant swapping to it
havent played woyer this patch yet
ionic fern
Tbh i'm using cof major/vop minor even for m+.
vernal stirrup
I've been vop major cof minor for a while
I do aegis on islands for the constant high upgime
brittle owl
vop minor is undoubtedly good
dunno how impactful the rando proc is
gives you 2 extra thunderclaps or smthing per proc
vernal stirrup
ye normally 2 claps for me
brittle owl
and bom didn't proc on it afaik
ionic fern
I don't like RNG of VoP major
vernal stirrup
it does
ionic fern
It does proc..just weaker.
brittle owl
yeah so not that much
brittle owl
i guess
it's funner on classes with more impact on the proc imo
rando weak avatar doesnt seem like its too good
vernal stirrup
it still gives you the claps
brittle owl
playing without BoM is gross for instance
vernal stirrup
which is what makes it feel good
little bit of change to the rotation when it procs
brittle owl
feeds into the proccy nature of the spec , so i can see what you mean
vernal stirrup
apparently
sick sentinel
nice
round glade
I love vop
flat jackal
Does intimidating shout work for adds inside bwonsamdi’s mantle in Atal Dazar?
round glade
It feels amazing 😊
flat jackal
Oh, then I must’ve been mistaken. Thanks!
crimson furnace
good mornign, guys
seeing some nice talks this morning
how is everyone doing today?
crimson furnace
essence talk, always good talk