Kaege even
#protection
spice ferry
oblique garnet
🤔
cerulean tusk
One of the more smoother 10 runs I had as a healer this week, was with a 392 prot warrior. It's more about CD, mob and posistioning -managment, than anything else. Work with your healer to push the most efficency out - and gear should only be a minor hindrance (to a certain point, of course).
cerulean tusk
Last time I used Sporepods, it was a 425, it did exactly 22k healing over a whole M+ run. So not my favorite. It has never performed any good for myself. Go for Rezan's instead. Urchin is just a nice tool. I do recommend diamond though.
peak dock
only have a 405 diamond 😦
rapid jewel
sporedpod depends, the heal isn't that bad actually, but easily wasted.
manic cypress
Hello my fellow prot warrior brothers anyone familiar with m radiance n behemoth free for a chat?
willow scarab
method won
mortal carbon
@undone sun mr time
hushed cobalt
I read you can block during grongs trinket use, I'm curious if that's a good extra damage option(in not serious content)?
novel temple
What about the new arcane one from radiance
hushed cobalt
O snap. Maybe i try for a mythic tf'd one.
Why can you block during grongs but not merektha's?
strong forum
the arcane from radiance seems to be BIS for aoe padding
no idea about grong cuz i traded mine away, and never got another
manic cypress
@strong forum , i'd like to know if there are anything you wish you knew , like the finer details not just for prot warr but for rest of raid before going in to raidance and behemoth
perhaps tank positioning wise or when to use big cd's
slender sonnet
anyone know a good updated source for M+ prot traits
strong forum
@manic cypress both bosses are incredibly easy tank wise, radiance you have to keep in mind that p2 ( big storm elemental ) you cannot block its a attacks so you need tank healers aka pally / monk to spam heal your ass, otherwise both are exactly like heroic
apart from radiance having 2 adds so you need to split into 2 groups, thats it
oblique garnet
@slender sonnet They havent changed
manic cypress
Does spell reflect work for the add?
Aside from asigning interupt sequence for adds
strong forum
nop
strong forum
no on the side
manic cypress
and everyone just adjust for knockback?
strong forum
as much as you can
manic cypress
why cannot middle, is the knockback too far?
strong forum
yes
inland mesa
We do middle and you fall just inside of if
wispy plume
Just position your raid so the adds spawn at the entrance and your raid stacks against the entrance walls
inland mesa
But we also do move at every tornado because our group is monkies and cant dodge them
wispy plume
When gale buffet comes out you get knocked back into it
novel temple
Wait, spell reflect doesn’t work as a DR on the big storm adds melees?
exotic spoke
Sup
manic cypress
@wispy plume hey do u have a video for reference?
eternal plover
will the small adds always spawn next to the big or in middle by default?
manic cypress
Do you guys actively bait the big add?
Or just wherever it spawns go there
I understand it spawns away from the raid but how is that measured if whole raid is spread
sick sentinel
You're in 2 groups
inland mesa
Raid stacks as they spawn in two camps directly across from each other, adds spawn at the same distance from each camp, pick a direction to always go
sick sentinel
And they are directly opposed to each other
crimson vault
Yea you rotate around the boss as bombs and tornados spawn towards where azshara was to bair the adds to the doors so you can put your back to it and negate knockback
manic cypress
So what you're suggesting is both adds spawn next to each other ya? One at each door.
crimson vault
Yes
manic cypress
ok
novel temple
@strong forum ok good, cause i normally used demo shoutn with avatar up anyway
i was also using teh uunat mastery damage ticking idol as well
strong forum
the most damage youre gonna take is during add phase
so, i wouldnt use that
then and there
sick sentinel
You use lurkers anywhere but this phase
sick sentinel
Behemoth?
inland mesa
Immune what you can, soak rest, sac last platform if person cant immune
manic cypress
What are the spells that can immune barb
Iceblock / Bubble / Netherwalk / Turtle? / Vanish? / APT?
not sure bout the last 3
Cloak work?
Feign Death?
AMS?
fierce juniper
Vanish/Feign/Invis will cause it to go off immediately and kill the person unless its soaked, so you definitely dont want to use any kind of invis ability
fierce juniper
block bubble netherwalk turtle cloak all work
fierce juniper
magic bop works as well if you have prot paladin
manic cypress
spellwarding?
awww
we dont
I saw a vid
where painsup
seems to be enuff to save ppl?
manic cypress
check out this vid
not sure if you might find it interesting
they run 3 disc
and they seem to only pain supp lol
frigid heart
40
sick sentinel
Wait
Yeah
So an ele shaman has 40%dr, a 20% if he stays in ghost wolf for 4 sec and with a painsupp another 40% and a PWS he can be fine
crimson vault
Computation with red haste card and haste vers yellow or rezans?
fierce juniper
Overclocked is significantly more haste on average compared to rezans
sick sentinel
Is the bulwark trinket good
novel temple
is lurkers real bad to use on heroic radiance during the intermission phase?
lusty grotto
ilvl>stats
night oxide
question for my protection fathers. what is the average uptime% of ignore pain overall for an M+
lusty grotto
doesn't matter
night oxide
?? what!
lusty grotto
IP uptime does not matter
night oxide
i literally just got my asshole ripped a new because the healer thought my uptime was low
the whole group joined in saying should be about 70% and that i was failing
lusty grotto
block effective uptime is the only thing that matters
IP falls back on what you're using your rage on
IP is a way to smoothe our dmg, it's not our main mitigation
so these people really do not know what they are talking about
night oxide
ok awesome thank you thats what i was trying to say but i really just had to check myself with skyhold since i felt pretty attacked afterwards
sick sentinel
Anybody that talks to you about uptime doesn't know what they are talking about
sand egret
Oof, pour one out for this homie. IP uptime....what are we back in Legion?
also, was your healer Disc per chance?
lusty grotto
no idea, look in wowhead maybe
hidden notch
im 430 and getting face rolled
warm plinth
By what content?
hidden notch
+10 keys and above
lusty grotto
probably not playing correctly or not pulling right
rapid tide
Sounds more like a you problem and less like a gear problem imho.
lusty grotto
do you have logs?
rapid tide
What are you having trouble with? Spiking? Just slowly ticking down.
Does it feel like you are taking a lot of damage? Or does it feel like you can't keep up defensives?
hidden notch
9magic
rapid tide
What Keys did you run? What was your comp, your avg group dps?
Grievous uptime on you.
lusty grotto
in what dungeon? what key lvl?
warm plinth
Magic is a relatively small part of your damage intake for most dungeons. There are some exceptions but magic damage should not be why you feel like you're getting facerolled in a general sense
rapid tide
It's hard to say anything atm other than at 430 keys up to +15 should hardly be much pain in all fairness
And most magic dmg can be avoided with proper CC/SR/Interrupts
Group effort :-)
lusty grotto
a 430 shield does nothing against magic damage, so im not sure why you mentioned it
warm plinth
He said he was 430 ilevel, not that he had a 430 shield.
lusty grotto
no tank can safely tank magic damage in any dungeon without kicks, that's on your group
sand egret
prob because they weren't actually looking for advice
lusty grotto
the context was shields
sand egret
nej
sand egret
man said nothing about shields
sand egret
those are two different people
lusty grotto
that was the context
warm plinth
No o_O The last guy said something about shields.
sand egret
yikes
rapid tide
That's kinda obviously two different topics.
lusty grotto
holy fuck
rapid tide
But w/e it's not about shields, that's clarified now ;-)
lusty grotto
fine
hidden notch
mine was about stats lol because i was doing 10+ keeping up shield blocking and on some dungeons
i just get face rolled
by magic
which is normal but jeez
rapid tide
Your stats don't really matter there too in all honesty.
sand egret
welcome to tanking? magic is kinda the anti-tank mechanic
warm plinth
Stats won't make a difference. It's almost guaranteed that it's poor play on your part. Unfortunately, seeing a log is probably the only real viable way to give you feedback.
hidden notch
Gotcha
rapid tide
Agreed :-) If you have more info and best a log: Glad to give advice
sand egret
magic mechanics is generally, stop them before they land or just bite the bullet and eat it. Other than poppin your DR's, there's not too much you can do
lusty grotto
HUH GHASH AND BLADE?
sand egret
i mean he wasn't
warm plinth
This is literally the first time he said anything involving a shield in any way lol
sand egret
stewart gave him too much caffeine this morning i reckon
lusty grotto
you guys went anal on my reply
warm plinth
If you need to blow off some steam, you could just go make another fake CS ticket
lusty grotto
that's why
sand egret
well you didn't read before answering
lusty grotto
he was clearly talking about his shield
lusty grotto
i mean he said "shield block" + magic
sand egret
so you can see who's talkin 😃
rapid tide
Except he said he wasn't... It's a missunderstanding, wouldn't it be easy to move on about that and potentially just be helpful instead?
hidden notch
Ladies ladies quit your arguing lol
lusty grotto
its implied
sand egret
we can all see he literally did not utter t he word shield until just recently
which is also irrelevant vs magic
sand egret
ecause that implies a combined stat pool?
rapid tide
He said that he is 430 and gets smacked
lusty grotto
sand egret
saying 430 assumes you're closer to say, 500k hp than like....300
lusty grotto
look at the way the conversation flowed
sand egret
not that you have a 430 shield
rapid tide
It didn't though.
lusty grotto
its not the same guy
sand egret
im aware of how your brain went
rapid tide
There are 7 minutes between the topocs
lusty grotto
because WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SHIELDS
sand egret
it's a completely different person
lusty grotto
who is this aesri guy
rapid tide
It's not like anyone was talking shields anymore...
sand egret
a different person
lusty grotto
what a fucking pointless convesation
crimson vault
Wait what about shields?
sand egret
certainly aint the first time people say stuff that isn't related to the current convo
hidden notch
~ eats popcorn~
sand egret
told ya he wasn't here looking for advice haha
lusty grotto
ok so why do you say shield block when mitigating magic damage?
hidden notch
he asked from what i was taking most damage from
i said magic
nothing to block that but soaking it with ignorepain or magic reflect
lusty grotto
warm plinth
He said that like 8 minutes after you said he was talking about shields, and it was a general "I have good gear, I keep shield block up, I'm still getting fucked". He was referencing a post he made like 30 minutes ago about whether his stats were good.
sand egret
anywho, trying to actually help without logs:
What dungeon were you doing?
hidden notch
Storm
sand egret
that place is mainly interrupts
lusty grotto
you need the interrupts
hidden notch
i mean me and boy always interupt as much as possible chain stuns
lusty grotto
no tank can survive pulling 4 water bolt-happy casters on Fort week without kicks
warm plinth
The water blasts from the apprentices are no joke
hidden notch
and all that i was just wondering was there any other main way to eat magic
but since that was already answered
im good 😛
sand egret
or rock Null Essence if it's really trucking you
hidden notch
the minor i assume
sand egret
how bad you getting trucked?
lusty grotto
both shrine and KR are difficult to tank if you don't have the kicks on fort week
hidden notch
its normally only on fort weeks
lusty grotto
you will get fucked
hidden notch
and i mean i got my ass destroyed after i chain cc'd apack lol
i assume no one else was kicking* so if thats a main issue ill watch that more carefully
lusty grotto
you need kick rotations, thats all
crimson vault
IP 4head
lusty grotto
stun + Intim Shout helps
sand egret
depends on how many casters you pull, but you do have a lot of tools to interrupt while your SR is on CD as well
sand egret
esp on those early pulls, not like you'll really need it
since that's like the biggest threat anyway
rising tides > nuke city
warm plinth
Damn, lucky
I'm confused though Nim, you don't need to keep demo or wall up to get oscillators. 😏
Sorry, ily
sand egret
looool
lusty grotto
im gonna let that one slide because
sand egret
gettem
lusty grotto
im happy i got r3 null
warm plinth
Congrats man
lusty grotto
i guess i should work on the pvp ones esp since i want sphere r3
warm plinth
🤢
Man, horde get weapon cache followed by equipment cache
Alliance gets...resources twice in a row
lusty grotto
hmm
sick sentinel
What does sphere r3 even do
sick sentinel
And why would you use it outside of necrotic week
sand egret
it's constant haste when you get hit?
oblique garnet
rank 2 is enough for sphere
sick sentinel
I'd use rank 3 with a 65 neck
It males mobs hit slower=less rage and less revenge procs=less damage
novel temple
Since the mobs will hit slower, you can just not use ip at all
Maybe slow down on the shield blocks
warm plinth
Uhhh, wait, aren't we just talking the minor here?
warm plinth
Yeah there's no attack speed reduction on the minor so it wouldn't affect anything rage/proc-wise
sand egret
(not that it really has too much an effect on it anyway)
warm plinth
Yeah I mean it's what, a 12% uptime 25% slow on attack speed anyway. The difference it would make in rage generation would probably not even be noticeable.
warm plinth
Nvm, missed that it's 45 sec CD on r2 and 3. Still though
sand egret
well it's more the fact that you're basically losing 1 auto attack in 10 seconds of mob uptime
warm plinth
Yeah, exactly. Which may not even actually affect your rage generation since there's an ICD on rage gen from melees taken anyway
sick sentinel
it was a joke
sand egret
not a very good one 😄
sick sentinel
fuck off blade
sand egret
at least that made me chuckle
warm plinth
I think Skyhold needs some coffee this morning
warm plinth
Congrats
lusty grotto
gz gz
hollow sleet
Are the bracers from mechagon any good? The ones without stats and an on use? I assume it's not but I could be wrong
sick sentinel
If I'm having trouble tanking, like ilvl wise
doing my cd management perfectly
should I use defensive trinket and defensive azerites?
er
enchant*
I have pure offensive everything
and the healer said he's having a hard time healing
maybe because of grevious tho
I have rezans, sundering trinket, the force multi enchant and 2 DCs, 3 BoM and Clockwork Heart
oh, and I don't have 55 neck so I don't have the defensive minor
Doing 15s/16s
@sick sentinel don't run double dc
What should I replace it with
It's either Magic Resist or more Block
and leech build
and is one azerite going to reduce that much anyway?
crimson furnace
guys, what do we use as a weapon enchant these days??
force multi. or still navigation?
rapid jewel
force multiplier, quick navigation if you have low haste
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel there is no leech build
Nah I mean full leech with blood sport
Don't pick bloodsport
crimson furnace
yhea, haste is on the low end @rapid jewel
oblique garnet
get 55 neck
oblique garnet
why would you run anima
sick sentinel
Idk
Only thing I have
:4h
What else would you run
You don't like you have any remote clue of what you are doing or talking about it
?
What would I use as a minor then
sick sentinel
Lucid
Sphere
Even aegis
Null from mecha agaist magic damage
I heard lucid is pointless in keys
??
You have full uptime on avatar anyway
That's straight up wrong
I legit don't have any down time on avatar
so why would I use it
warm plinth
It affects more than Avatar
sick sentinel
What's "full time on avatar"
warm plinth
And you don't have 100% uptime on Avatar. You just don't.
sick sentinel
I drop it
for like 3 seconds
3 gcds
Also the vers when it procs is good
I want to see a log of you running a dungeon
cunning nacelle
oyyyy, anyone tanked azsharas radiance and had trouble with blocking the adds hits so far ?
cunning nacelle
which is a pain on mythic
sick sentinel
Yes
Get a monk or a paladin on your side
Interrupt, shock wave, stormbolt, int shout to stop the adds from casting
And spam IP
And don't cast SB
cunning nacelle
jeah pretty much, i just had to go through our log from tonight and get some reassurance
those 140k hits were driving me nuts, well thx for your reply have a good night 😃
sick sentinel
Use your last stand, shield wall, spell reflect (for the knockback) and even rally if you need to
Also new healthpots
And healthstones
wanton star
Is Jes Howler good for prot?
umbral forge
Should a Prot Warrior beat a blood Death Knight on Ashvane Mythic?
north trout
no, it should beat the boss
lusty grotto
beat on what dps?
sick sentinel
@wanton star yes in raids
crude summit
to get into pushing m+ would it be easier with a prot warrior or pally . i know both can do it im just tryign to find something for my buddy without an over abundance of keybinds
tough vault
Both are fine.
And neither have many buttons.
For real easy mode druid or monk tanking is always an option, though BrM mechanics need some getting used to.
as in.. brew usage.
crude summit
thanks for the input woulda suggested that to him but he likes sheild wearing tanks
heavy belfry
When you say pushing m+ what do you mean like 20+?
tender igloo
how much do we like the bloodthirsty coral? if I had an equal ilvl ritual bandages which one do yall think would be a better pick
supple path
I'm a bad person, did we establish what the best piece to roll for first was this season? For azerite + residuum.
heavy belfry
Always chest, most stats?
south yarrow
Chest and helm have the same amount of stats no?
Raidbots droptimizer has a great tool for the expected dps gain of gambling a relinquished piece btw
crude summit
maybe not 20+ right away
novel temple
whats gonna be our 2nd minor that we pick
supple path
Yeah will go chest then. There's a decent helm off radiance that'll be a lot easier to get than the good mythic chest I bet.
arterial protection. gross.
crimson vault
Good chest from EP drops from Zaqual, so if you aren't there anytime soon I'd suggest chest
supple path
Goodbye, sweet 3x BoM. You were my true love.
novel temple
you should be able to still get triple BoM
Also queen shoulders
Really the only thing you’ll need is a helm with BoM on it
oblique garnet
@tender igloo Urchin bandages is bad
hasty sapphire
is the trinket beam (mecha trinket) and the Concentrated Flame dmg scaling with Avatar? not sure if i should use them in my Avatar window
undone sun
no
avatar is a whitelist buff ability, only affects warrior abilities
only trinkets that are ideal to use within avatar are the ones that give raw stats
hasty sapphire
thanks :)
lusty grotto
@warm plinth you did mechagon right?
warm plinth
Like in general?
lusty grotto
just need 1 dps for hardmode
warm plinth
Oh. I did it already this week. 😭
lusty grotto
kk
terse dragon
oblique garnet
Rezan
brittle owl
keep the bandages though, can be good on some weeks, it's not useless anymore
i'd use them this week if i had a sketchy healer, just because of grievous
as an example
grand drum
its very useful if you want ~60 gold as well
strong forum
^this
rugged pewter
anyone know why on m orgozoa, sometimes the 3rd tank would randomly get the incubation fluid debuff? like there'd be no one with incubation fluid closeby but i'd get the debuff
dim blaze
Anybody having issues with tricks of trade
undone sun
elaborate
warm plinth
lul he's probably using the one that "prevents minor annoyances"
tawdry hound
undone sun
🤣 yeah i had dozens of those neural silencers because of life grips and swap blasters
pastel parcel
What's a good way of knowing whether or not my Warrior co-tank is utilising Ignore Pain when looking at logs? I've had some concerns brought to me by other members of the raid, however I main a prot paladin so I'm a bit unsure of the numbers etc
dim blaze
would you run 430 belt w/ leech or 425 benthic
neither has socket
benthic is 425 dmg/threat gen one
warm plinth
Jesus, anyone having issues with the fire cannons on mechanical gardens and mechagon during cutting beam being REALLY FUCKING FAST?
I swear to god Mechagon was just moving at hyper speed lol. Easily 3 or 4x faster than when I fought him a couple days ago on another toon
manic cypress
Hey guys
Whats everyone's thoughts on Benthic gear for prot warriors
Worth the gamble?
Bearing in mind ilvl is probably priority, how far can benthic go
real thunder
does the item level above all rule apply to azerite pieces for M+. I have a 420 piece with DeafCrash/BoM and a 430 one with BoM/CallousRep but i dont know which is better for M+
warm plinth
Is it your only DC trait?
real thunder
yes
warm plinth
Keep the 420
real thunder
ok, tyvm
arctic egret
Hey, how important is your shield for tanking?
I'm trying to gear my tank set out, but im getting pummeled and I'm wondering if it's because of my 370 shield
tender igloo
@manic cypress I mean you can check uptime and how often it is cast. You can also see on damage taken and it breaks down what is blocked/absorbed, etc.. it will vary fight to fight
sick sentinel
Very very very important @arctic egret
spice ferry
@manic cypress some pieces are still bis for dps. I believe there is info in pins or in resource channel about them. If they don’t have sockets they’re not worth spending pears on
pastel parcel
@tender igloo was that directed at my question?
spice ferry
But you only want to upgrade gear with sockets
tender igloo
oops @pastel parcel my bad yes it was
arctic egret
damn, then i really need that shield
I tohught so, as I noticed that my 370 had almost half the block of a 430 shield
tender igloo
@pastel parcel if a fight is heavily magic damage you should see a lot more use of ignore pain unless the spell is blockable like jainas ability was
I tested out the mechagon shield with the absorb and damage reflect thing at 415 instead of my 430. not fantastic in a 14 shrine I ran. is it viable at a higher ilvl or is it just a transmog?
warm plinth
You use it if it's your highest ilevel and that's it.
If you have another shield at the same ilevel, use the other one
tender igloo
Yea thats what I thought. didn't seem to add a whole lot
strong forum
The highest possible mechagon shield you can get is 425.
So. Already not even an option
golden violet
Would it make sense to take a point in iron fortress rather than a 3rd point in deafening crash?
golden violet
i got that 😃
spice ferry
then 1xdc, and what are your other choices
golden violet
on this piece i can pick between dc and iron fortress
spice ferry
what are the choices on all rows you've chosen DC
golden violet
callious represial and thunderous blast
spice ferry
so it looks like this:
DC/IF
DC/CR
DC/TB
golden violet
yea
ionic fern
IF
DC
DC
would be my go-to for m+ in this scenario.
golden violet
Aight thanks for your input 😃
sick sentinel
absolutely no reason to go for more than 1 dc after the nerfs
I would rather go callus reprisal
tough vault
sooo... for mainly raiding and M+ on the side -- do I go for BFI or Undulating tides?
tough vault
2x?
tough vault
yeah I figured as such. UT is simming dps so well but ofc doesn't take into account survivability - hence the question 2x BFI or split between the two
also -- gamble chest, or buy specific low/high ilvl?
sick sentinel
uf is simming with 100% uptime and I'm sure you'll fall under 50% health often enough for it to do not a lot of damage
tough vault
Titan resi ofc*
sick sentinel
how likely are you to kill first boss mythic in the near future
tough vault
Nowhere soon
sick sentinel
gamble chest and hope for ashenvane
tough vault
we're progging HC, and imo need to cut some slackers from the team but that ain't happening just yet 🙃
sick sentinel
140 DPS
ionic fern
Just not as much.
sick sentinel
AND YOU ARE LOSING SURV
ionic fern
😂
sick sentinel
@tough vault even a non-bom chest will be good because of the 40 ilvls upgrade
and yeah, with current levels of crit and haste you can easily hold 3 stacks of CR on the target
without wasting too much rage on casting revenge
tough vault
Why ashvane tho? running droptimizer and that one's putting out desert guardian - DPS probably?
Im running BoM 2x on head and shoulders already, ideally the chest has DC
sick sentinel
more than 1 DC is a meme
there are multiple good chests
ashenvane just has OP and thats why I like it I guess
tough vault
desert guardian would give bom + dc
ionic fern
More than 1 DC in AoE was NOT a meme.
It was a clear DPS increase for people who knew the class well enough not to worry about survivability in m+. 🤷
tough vault
so ideal for my current gear - using benthic headpiece (farming dem pearls yo)
ionic fern
After the nerf it's worse, semi-dead.
tough vault
so far I've not run into surv issues - then again, my regular group doesn't push 😛
sick sentinel
before it was not a meme, it was clearly a dps upgrade
tough vault
ah wrong topic mb
sick sentinel
it's true @tough vault , you want a bom+dc chest rn
and @ionic fern , for the last time, before the nerf I was suggesting the new players to not go for 3dc 3bom because they were new, if you knew the spec enough and was not worring about surv it was clearly a dps upgade, just not worth it for somebody that is new
sick sentinel
right now though, after the nerfs, there is absolutely no reason for you to run more than 1 DC
you're just gimping your gear
tough vault
... thanks for the help though! appreciate it 😄
ionic fern
DPS increase is a DPS increase..especially if you're trying to go all out.
I'm pretty sure some other stuff will pull ahead now tho.
sick sentinel
you're not gonna time a key for 100 dps
ionic fern
I mean..w/e your goal is.
If your goal is to maximise your DPS then obv you'd take w/e does more. 🤔
sick sentinel
this is the nth time I tell you this
but what you want is not the same with what the people asking for advice here want
ionic fern
He diddn't even specify what he wants.
Wether survivability or DPS.
So i just gave my input. Just as you are giving yours.
sick sentinel
and did your little sim
sim with getting loads of free revenges?
because the more crit you have the CR does
it's a completely different dps upgrade on CR if you have low or high crit
and low vs high pull size
because I don't press devastate as much anymore, I press revenge most of the time, because it's free
ionic fern
I "did my little sim" with the t24 profile to show you that there's still benefit in it.
Obv you'd sim yourself for DPS purposes with your own stats. 🤔
sick sentinel
that's why you can't sim prot properly
CR obviously undersims
so it might probably perfom better than a second DC in practice
tough vault
isn't it also that DC is on the same slot as traits that do stack more beneficially? So while DC x n is a dps increase in theory, it's far more situational - AoE situation (far less common now reaping is gone).. plus the Demo shout extension doesn't improve with more stacks
sick sentinel
he didn't sim your character he simmed a character he had
ionic fern
The T24 profile actually has 23% crit tbh. Not sure how much you're rocking.
sick sentinel
yes but are you parrying
tough vault
and CR ... more rage = more revenge + more free procs... plus dmg reduction x3? So more beneficial than just raw AoE from TC
sick sentinel
are you getting attacked by mobs
DC scales lineraly with mob size
CR is better the more mobs are attacking you
tough vault
and @sick sentinel nah I get that - it was the discussion before about DC stacking. just giving my 2 cents as a new prot main since 8.2 😛
sick sentinel
yes, ydara, you're right
ionic fern
The mob's got capped out at 20 anyways.
bronze lantern
reaping, you mean the mobs you pulled on other mobs that died way before them due to random cleave from other classes anyway?
sick sentinel
focus on me
talk to me
you can't act like a smart ass, be yellow so your words have more weight on new people and still give wrong advice
because you personally like a trait more
tough vault
guaranteed increased raw dps from TC on a group of 20 is amazing... If you actually get a group of 20 on you. Reaping is gone 🦀 so there's no need for stacking that dps if it's even more situational than before.
rather get the surv bonus and extra damage on a (potentially free) rage dump
even more so when we drown in rage thanks to essences
cold wren
Kaege is right
ionic fern
I'm not 100% sure what your problem is @sick sentinel but i'm giving my ADVICE to people from my experience.
When people don't specify if they want more DPS or more survivability i will give them my point of view.
Just cause yours doesn't match with it doesn't mean it's wrong.
Also, you can check your parrys and free revenge procs from the full HTML report in SIMC.
sick sentinel
does it take into account how many mobs are attacking you though
cold wren
Running 3xDC is daft
sick sentinel
because you get different revenge procs on 5 mobs and on 10 mobs
you use less rage on IP and more on revenge if you are not taking a lot of damage
ionic fern
No one's arguing that running 3xDC's right now is shit jessas.
I said it myself that it's pretty much dead right now if you scroll up.
I just did the T24 profile sim to show that in this specific scenario with the T24 profile there's still SOME merit to it and people started taking it like a hail-mary and blew it up.
sick sentinel
a 0.1% upgrade might as well be within variance
sick sentinel
so 98% uptime on the dr
ionic fern
With the T24 profile that has around 23% crit.
You do parry in sims.
Ofc it can be a variance. It's a SIM. It can't duplicate real situations 100%. Same can be done with "TC has more range than Revenge and hits eveyrone AROUND you" for example.
Sims don't know that stuff.
Sims just take the perfect scenarios and do what the APL tells you with the enemy just being infront of you and smacking you.
sick sentinel
if something is hitting you from behind you're a bad warrior anyway
ionic fern
It was to show a point in what sims do/don't.
tough vault
PepeHands
ionic fern
Stating that my advice is "wrong" and i'm being a "smart ass yellow name" without fully realizing what sims do take into account and what not while agreeing that it can be a variance is just... 🤷
ionic fern
If you wanna go further with this or got problems with me take it into DM's @sick sentinel no point spoiling #protection with it.
tough vault
Well I think I do understand the issue with your advice.
You tell a guy asking for M+ traits to go IF/DC/DC from a lineup of DC/IF + DC/CR + DC/TB.
To stack DC for DPS - which in a vacuum is correct dps wise, I guess? Looking at the bigger picture however you get far more benefits across the board for swapping out 2 of those DCs for traits that stack better, which is an indirect dps increase... and also giving more survivability in M+.
Like - it's your take on it, that's np.
ionic fern
Have you even checked how little damage TB does?
sick sentinel
TB is bad
I'd take DC over TB any day
but I would try to remove a DC from somewhere else
instead of it being my second one
ionic fern
I'll say it again.
3xDC is DEAD as far as DPS goes with equal ilvl items.
In this current scenario of me being a "smart ass" was just to point out that stacking DC vs CR is still a tiny increase as far as sims go.
sick sentinel
yes and since its tiny, CR is better
tough vault
I mean you're still simming DPS, right?
undone sun
only way to sim
sick sentinel
yeah, and the sims have 98% uptime on the debuff which is pretty good, the arguement against CR was that you can't keep the debuff up all the time and it becomes sketch sometimes
1,5% dr might even be more than IF
ionic fern
Okay Kaege, i cba arguing with you all day. I got work to do.
If you're simming - you want to maximise your DPS. If it's a increase - even if it's a 100DPS increase you take it.
If you want survivability or a more "all-around" option then you obv take CR.
tough vault
So statistically you're correct.
Realistically, it's bad advice.
Is what you're saying.
ionic fern
It depends on what the person wants.
I will always go for more DPS since in the current state of protection warriors we don't really have to worry about survivability.
tough vault
He wants to do M+, in which Survivability is an important aspect.
sick sentinel
so just tell them to sim
ionic fern
I was talking about m+. 🤔
sweet kettle
nah not really in M+ you can cheese alot of stuff and you only need cds on specific packs other than that you just go full dps and blast
spice ferry
thats the correct mentality for someone who knows what they're doing, or plays with a group who does
someone who doesn't know what they're doing is in for a bad time with that attitude'
ionic fern
hence the "I" as in ME.
sick sentinel
yes but that's not YOUR character
ionic fern
Amf
sick sentinel
the guy that is asking for advice is clearly not as good
and he probably has to deal with pug healers
or worse healers than your healer
and plays worse than you do
so therefor what YOUR playstyle does is completely irrelevant
autumn pendant
@sick sentinel
tough vault
I mean I'll spec some survivability for M+ regardless, trust no bitch lmao
sick sentinel
just like ydara said, even though you are statistically right, it's still a bad advice
ionic fern
"bad advice" either a tiny DPS increase or a tiny survivability increase.
Hmpf.
Either way it's not "bad advice".
sick sentinel
you're just acting like a strong opinioned child at this point
ionic fern
🤔
tough vault
survivability which would help him when faced with bad pugs? presuming that will be what he runs into. Things don't die quicker if you're not alive to kill them 4head
spice ferry
now your making assumptions
ionic fern
Not really.
I'm just stating that the increase in either the DPS or the survivability is just low.
spice ferry
to validate your argument
ionic fern
We don't know his skill.
We don't know who he plays with.
sick sentinel
you are saying that a 0.2% dps increase is the same as a more than 1% surv increase
they are both tiny but one is a lot bigger than the other
ionic fern
IF we assume that he doesn't know how to play the class well enough and he actually benefits from the % DR.
sick sentinel
and 1,5% is not small compared to other upgrades as well
how much surv is an IF for example
tough vault
tbh if he's asking whether or not DC stacking is good or bad, he hasn't looked at the pinned guides.
we can only assume, but yknow... learn your class.
sick sentinel
well no
ionic fern
Was*
sick sentinel
he can be asking about stacking DC because he saw high ranked prot warriors do it
it's the exact some process people went when asking for leech and bloodsport
ionic fern
Sure, that could have been the case.
But it also could have not been the case.
We don't know that.
tough vault
He only asked about what traits to pick for M+ .. from an inconvenient set of traits.
ionic fern
Either way what ever he takes CR or 2nd DC it won't make or break anything.
sick sentinel
he clearly doens't have good gear, he is upgrading benthic for gods sake
tough vault
The actual best advice would be to hunt down good gear lmao
oblique garnet
But if he goes cr he atleast gets defensive value out of it
sick sentinel
if you tell him to for a second DC now, he might select that trait in the future as well
crimson furnace
taht u get ur items ;))
sick sentinel
because now he knows "second DC is better than CR so I shouldn't ask again"
ionic fern
That's again..an assumption that he does it.
tough vault
I'll repeat.. if you're here, you're at least somewhat invested in playing your class. There's a reason 
exists.
To readily accept 1 (one) person's suggestion to stack a certain trait is kind of wack.
ionic fern
Hence the discussion and varied responses. 🤷
tough vault
Not really.
Dude accepted it and gtfo.
Hence my own question just after that about stacking UT or BFI - I throw in some suggestions of my own and await feedback.
Delve into it a bit further.
I'm nowhere near min-maxing, but I'm ready to question my choices and those of others.
Be they as statistically perfect as they appear.
sick sentinel
a UT vs BFI discussions is a valid one for example
tough vault
I'm going to apply them in real scenarios and am wary of that.
sick sentinel
and we can have a constuctive discussion about it
ionic fern
You do realize that this goes out to everyone right-as in everyone can read it and gain insight on the topic and different opinions etc benefiting the entire Skyhold.
oblique garnet
UT is good if you can stay above the treshold all the time
sick sentinel
but something like DC vs CR is not one I am happy to have for such a long time
tough vault
I mean it's easy to see why you -wouldn't- stack DC as a 'casual' M+ tank.
(considering myself -very- casual, in that regard)
spice ferry
you say that
but we live in a world where people are still using 6 blood traits
even though they are literal trash on earth
and just about every resource available says avoid them
tough vault
Yeah. However if you join a discord focused on a class, and ask about traits - you're there for a reason. Self-improvement. So people may assume you at least invested into reading a trait guide or 2.
Assumptions, of course, but that doesn't nullify why someone would actively ask about a class - he wants to get better.
ionic fern
Usually they just join without reading FAQ/Guides and ask away.
spice ferry
and yet every day people come here who clearly have not read any resources, asking questions the guides answer
people who join discords expect those already there to be their faq
tough vault
So in that case, telling someone something that is CLEARLY called out as being VERY inconvenient/bad in this server's official guide on Icyveins... is clearly bad advice.
mortal brook
🗞
ionic fern
The guide is fully focused on defensive values tho.
But it's a good starting point for new people to read.
tough vault
Of course. It's what I do for every class I try to pick up. And you're right, can't expect everyone to do that.
ionic fern
I mean..in a perfect world i guess you'd read a guide..join the class discord..read the FAQ...search for the question you have before asking..and if nothing comes up then ask.
😄
But we don't live in a perfect world.
😄
spice ferry
searching for specific questions on discord is pretty clunky tbh
i can forgive that part
tough vault
Coming in here and asking for 'how do I git gud' is usually grounds for rather than throwing out hypothetical sims from a perfect world.
ionic fern
But jeah, can forgive it.:D
spice ferry
sure you find em, but just in general its not a good system
ionic fern
Coming here and asking how do i git gud is usually grounds for asking "DPS or Survivability"? Either way link the logs.
tough vault
and discord search is... decent if you know basic search syntax. Still bad overall though
especially for specific questions.
crimson furnace
i had a similar questions last night regarding weapon enchants, was wondering between force multiplier and navigation, i got a really good feedback and help in like 3 seconds...
ionic fern
crimson furnace
gussing that issue was easier in my case
ionic fern
It's mostly misunderstandings and different PoV's with me and @sick sentinel .
sick sentinel
we agree in most things
except more than 1 dc
I personally have run 3dc 3bom before in s2
ionic fern
But idm it. Discussions usually bring more light out.
I'm not right 100% of the time and obv i still got things to learn. 🤷
sick sentinel
but I never suggested new people to pick it
mortal brook
its also being open that helps a lot of ppl get their questions answered. if they ask 'which stat on ring to survive' but the real answer is 'manage your uptimes, its not your rings' and they get upset, that's an issue
crimson furnace
another thing that happened here in the chat a few days ago was a discussion regarding BOOM-voice and devastator, everybody that is high on logs are using it, should I use it as well?? so it was a pretty nice talk there as well taht I liked a lot
tough vault
Yeah I had the same issue @crimson furnace , one day it's quick nav, the next it was force... It boiled down to a +35 increase in dps sims soooo
crimson furnace
im low on haste
spice ferry
@mortal brook are you telling me that the reason I havent killed mythic ashzara yet ISN'T my rings?
tough vault
yes just blame the rings konrad
crimson furnace
:)))
sick sentinel
👏 Force Multiplier 👏 undersims 👏
oblique garnet
👏🏻Devastator👏🏻
mortal brook
@spice ferry pretty sure its your dps sucks, cuz its certainly not the tanks fault. eyir says so
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @mortal brook
mortal brook
wow
crimson furnace
wow
crimson furnace
i for one cant go back to devastator
oblique garnet
I hate playing with devastator
sick sentinel
1400 is enough haste
after that I start gemming crit
personally
but still, that's what I do, doesn't mean that everybody should
ionic fern
I've dropped really low with haste with the ilvl upgrades. :8
Think i'm at 19% baseline now.
tough vault
.. alright boys pray for my chest TR token..
undone sun
1400 is roughly 20%
spice ferry
yeah i sit passive 27%
ionic fern
I used to have like 25%. 😦
undone sun
🙃
tough vault
well I got the worst one. woop. at least my dps spec is happy.
sick sentinel
like, we went to do a 17 atal for weekly with guildies and friends and we timed it by mistake
sick sentinel
with like 2mins left
ionic fern
I still got WM 18 to do this week. 😦
oblique garnet
What kind of spaceship shit this is @tough vault
undone sun
narcissus
sick sentinel
I have a 17 and I heard it's not fun
undone sun
character panel overhaul
spice ferry
wm is fucking cancer
sick sentinel
and yeah narc's character panel is fun
tough vault
@oblique garnet eh some addon called Narcissus. Gives a cool stat overview.
425 ilvl
mortal brook
18s kinda rough. +500% dmg on the trash D:
sick sentinel
if you get left it's fine
mortal brook
couple annoying reflectors this week but emissaries arent bad
sick sentinel
if you get right it's not as fine
also if you are upstairs you can knock enchanted emissaries downstairs
and they pull shit
ionic fern
Oh,nice.
mortal brook
can confirm
mortal brook
they also have z axis pull in general, if they are over/under a pack >.>
crimson furnace
@tough vault hep me with that site u took the screenshot from
wanna "sim" my warr as well
to make it look cool like that
crimson furnace
i never simed my warr ?shy
sick sentinel
where our beloved @ionic fern wrote the apl : D
crimson furnace
addon name? 😄
eternal plover
They will probably fix that soonish @mortal brook .. we had an entire TD dungeon coming after us at some point, due to a random z-axis pull from some ground effect
undone sun
narcissus
ionic fern
I can feel the sarcasm @sick sentinel 😂
undone sun
🍿
sick sentinel
tbf without you we would have prot simming
crimson furnace
is the tea being spilled?? 😮
sick sentinel
at least I am thankful for that
mortal brook
I remember legion, some abilities just had infinite z axis on them. the bear thrash proc would pull down drakes from the heavens in HoV
mortal brook
the leech thing?
ionic fern
😂
sick sentinel
LMAO
mortal brook
:kappa:
undone sun
🤦
mortal brook
🗞
undone sun
what is dead may never die
sick sentinel
what is dead may never die
undone sun
30% haste still comes back to haunt me
ionic fern
😂
sick sentinel
people are still asking about haste cap
tough vault
@crimson furnace download the addon called Narcissus. You get a shiny button, click it, and it will show a full screen of stats and character model
undone sun
😴
sick sentinel
we literally told you the name of the addon 3 times already before he did but okay
tough vault
I @-ed him before with the name as well lmao
oh no
i fail
that was Late
sorry senpai
my honoru
commits sudoku
crimson furnace
@sick sentinel hey, Im at work and missed it, saw the mention and reacted to it
u rock as well
sick sentinel
no worries : P
tough vault
Rude.
crimson furnace
tough vault
But true.
crimson furnace
ty for the share!!!
tough vault
anyways what up with stat prio? Had this talk with my dps buddy, I told him "I just want haste slurping milkshake sounds all the haste gimme* and he was like 'dont you want crit too* and I just kept on slurping the milkshake.
crimson furnace
WELL.....
tough vault
At what point do I diverge into other stats lmao
crimson furnace
im in a state where my crit is higher than my haste
crimson furnace
let me share my profile
sick sentinel
you can keep slurping on that haste
tough vault
crimson furnace
tough vault
rawr
crimson furnace
this is me right now
oblique garnet
👏🏻There👏🏻Is👏🏻No👏🏻Stat👏🏻Prio👏🏻Get👏🏻Highest👏🏻Ilvl👏🏻
mortal brook
400% haste, you should def stop stacking haste. thats the clap gcd cap
sick sentinel
like I actively gem and enchant crit on rings at about 1500 haste or so
tough vault
yeah ilvl is highest goal - most of the time. Other than that I'm always following Simbot.
sick sentinel
because I also wanna gamer my Force multipler
crimson furnace
i wish to say that I feel really good as a tank in M+
with the current gear that I have
did a +15 almost timed it with a pug
last night
felt really good
tough vault
I feel bad about my M+ - I don't do enough and I am running with a non-optimal group... and pugging feelsbadman
oblique garnet
All you have to do in m+ is just clap real hard
oblique garnet
^
undone sun
scroll wheel bind
oblique garnet
I have other stuff in scroll wheel cant be tc
sick sentinel
if you can afford 2 pedals
tough vault
like we could have easily cleared +13 FH yesterday. however we have a body pulling MM hunter and a holy priest that forgets he has a mic.
sick sentinel
put on one to thunderclap
and the other to shieldslam
45k slam crits feel so good
tough vault
respecced to BFI over UT btw @sick sentinel ty 
sick sentinel
the moment you see that 50k crit on your screen
remember me
well 50k is a bit out of reach for you rn probs because I am 441 ilvl
but like
40K
tough vault
I'm not running any scrolling text addons actually, try to keep the ui clean-ish. Any recommendations though?
Mik's (or w/e) just feels so.. goofy
sick sentinel
I don't use any either I am a default boy
tough vault
aaah
undone sun
stopped using one on my last ui change
crimson furnace
same here, no numbers floating around at all
sick sentinel
your ST chunks during bl
crimson furnace
keeping it clean and smooth
tough vault
gonna be fun in raid tonight then
cloud rose
Bit fast and dirty but this is my WA set up. I have all my actionbars on Mouseover
crimson furnace
ionic fern
👌
mortal brook
you did the thing!
ionic fern
You can use topgear to play around with different gear setups aswell. It just requiers you to get the simc addon and do /simc in game...copy-paste it to the Top Gear section in Raidbots and change things aa you want.
crimson furnace
Devastate is higher when I do single target stuff
its even above revenge in my case
hmmm...
crimson furnace
yhea, but when i play, its way higher than that
the rest are the same
as far as %'s
undone sun
must be pressing it more than you need to
ionic fern
Legit last thing you press when everything else is on cd.:D
If you got logs you can link them somewhere and we can check.
crimson furnace
this is mostly a single target fight
mostly :))
..i barley cast revenge, hmmmmm
crimson furnace
ofc, but I have a habit of using IP all the time...
if u chekc the cast times and heals
plus I'm all about the "the more rage the better"
cloud rose
Would you say you spam it?
crimson furnace
cuz i have stuff to use, get CD's down and keep rolling them
i might be spamming it, tbh, i do always prio shield block
making sure its up
beofre I press the IP button (E) on my keyboard
77.54% is my IP avg uptime
ionic fern
Do you have a tracker for it?
crimson furnace
yhea
im not sure if I should say this or not, but I got used to an addon and been using it fooooor so long now
got the prot WA from them
ionic fern
Never heard of it.
crimson furnace
i think its an overkill sometimes, but it does help me in certainc cases, mostly when calling things out and cant focus 100% on my rotation
ionic fern
Is it one of those "rotation" ones?
ionic fern
Probably not. Especially if you have too many Devastate casts. 😄
crimson furnace
thats my fault tbh
crimson furnace
😄
fallow patrol
Which weapon would u pref from Palace Raid? The 7%attack speed Axe or the 10%Dmg Reduce Sword?
mortal brook
attack speed is procs bro. that 10% dmg reduction is a long ass cde
sick sentinel
servant splitter is bis
oblique garnet
Oh cmon now glick
mortal brook
wow its glickz
mortal brook
D:
undone sun
i mean, it's good in terms of equal ilevel it can sim better
but don't go out of your way for it
ionic fern
Dreams end👌
lucid vale
quick question where should cyclotronic blast and concentrated flame be in opening rotation after SS?
ionic fern
CoF you can shoot right before you charge in.
Blast should be preferably used outside of Avatar. So you can do CoF-charge-Blast-Avatar
lucid vale
Thanks a lot!!
ionic fern
Or Blast-CoF-charge-Avatar. Both work.👌