protection

[willow scarab]

For defensive play BV is undeniably better though

so keep that in mind

[quasi yacht]

i mean im a 94% hc parse, 78% mythic but im only 5/9 and my rast kill is an arms 23 lol

[willow scarab]

I'm a 99%+ heroic/mythic parse and so is he

I was also on rank 1 uunat parse for healing during prog before i swapped to do more damage to cater to our group needs

[undone sun]

oof

[willow scarab]

So defensive play isn't foreign either

[quasi yacht]

yeah

[undone sun]

B&

[quasi yacht]

lot of ppl dont understand 1st kill isnt always supposed to be a 100% parse, sometimes you just gotta live so your particular grp can get it down

[lusty grotto]

yeah that's called "progression"

[quasi yacht]

then once everyone is good at fight, geasred etc, you can go more offensive

[lusty grotto]

and that's what we call "farm mode"

[quasi yacht]

yeah i get that nim not my first rodeo brotha 😛

im just saying, there are a lot of ppl who focus a lil too much on parsing and cost their guild actually gaining progression kills lol

[lusty grotto]

i wouldn't doubt it

[quasi yacht]

kinda weird how often times especially in tanking parsing can be the exact opposite of what you 'should' do

[willow scarab]

that's what separates players

I don't parse on my prog kill and that's why i'm in the guild i am

[quasi yacht]

same

[willow scarab]

but then on farm i get 99s with m hands behind my back

[quasi yacht]

like they said there are lots of tricks for each fight too

for example, having other tank get thrown on grong, or like a thing i used to do as arms on fetid back in uldir, timing the bladestorm so you dont get knocked back etc etc

[oblique garnet]

If you look at the top logs at this late into the tier most of them involve cheesing the fights

[quasi yacht]

yeah 100%

i mean thats what wow is tho

like letting the yoggs spawn on zekvoz so you can have more targets to dps XD

when i first heard of that i was like... wtfffff

[willow scarab]

They actually aren't that bad

Top 5 are cheese but 99% are mostly just good play

[quasi yacht]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/daggerspine/buffs

bear in mind im not in guild so a lot are pugs

[oblique garnet]

99s are achieveable without cheese with good play

[quasi yacht]

imo anyone who consistantly has oranges are pretty good

[willow scarab]

I don't do any cheese if you'd like to compare

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/frostmourne/fumeiyo#

might be able to read into it and see a strat change or rotation or somethign

[quasi yacht]

u telling me u get a 99 and get thrown on grong?

[willow scarab]

I don't know I ahven't done bod in weeks

I think you can

[oblique garnet]

Oh youre raiding with nagura?

[willow scarab]

You only lose like 5 seconds of dps from a throw

[quasi yacht]

i mean i thibnk if i were with the same grp yeah i could be putting up 99s

[willow scarab]

not the real nagura

[oblique garnet]

The level of play matches 8)

Jkjk

[quasi yacht]

but im still progression, sure if i cruised along with an already 9/9 guild i could probs pump out some 99s lo

[willow scarab]

That's the catch

I was getting 99s before this guild

That's part of why I got into this guild

[quasi yacht]

not the best but for my realm situation, being guildless, i'm proud of most of my parses... idk what percentage of prot warriors overall it puts me at but eh

v nice v nice

[willow scarab]

AT the end of the day it doesn't matter that much

[quasi yacht]

hehe it does to some ppl 😛 clearly you

certainly me

[spice ferry]

yoiu dont get into guilds that are full of 99s without doing 99s

[quasi yacht]

u think pvp trinket is better than vial fumeiyo?

@willow scarab

[willow scarab]

hard to say

i use to say yes because vial is shit but it lines up with avatar

ideally use neither

[sick sentinel]

Sim it

[quasi yacht]

sim is great but it doesnt beat the advice of a top 1% prot war lol

i jsut got my 415 diamond last week of season ofc

[willow scarab]

sim actually does beat what ti have to say lol

[sick sentinel]

^

[quasi yacht]

im jsut finding out tonight everchill is actually the play

[sick sentinel]

Sims are absolute

as it implys math

damage wise

[quasi yacht]

yeah but a 5 min patchwork sim isnt gona be equal to what im putting out on a fight lol im trash

[sick sentinel]

then switch the duration

[undone sun]

Well you're not supposed to reach sim dps

That's the point

[quasi yacht]

i get how sims work lads

ig what im saying is i was just asking fum's opinion

[sick sentinel]

Well he doesn't know as he doesn't have the trinket

thus he would use the sim to find out

as that's what most top world players use

[quasi yacht]

ty

[willow scarab]

You are suppose to reach it for rank 1s

Playing close to sim is a 100% rank

[undone sun]

Not exactly, it's more of just a byproduct. If you consider that 99.9% of rank 1s are cheese strats

Cheesing Sims for higher sim dps isn't the same as cheesing r1s

[quasi yacht]

i mean i dont get why ppl say doing the fight to maximize dps makes it cheese

[willow scarab]

RF isn't cheesing sims

parse did over 20k ST dps on grong without adds

[oblique garnet]

He is also lightforged draenei

[willow scarab]

marginal dps increase

not even 1%

[distant crystal]

is lf draenei even the best for st prot dps?

i'd have thought one of the +crit or +critdmg would beat it

[oblique garnet]

His opulence log for example

[willow scarab]

Okay

Cherry pick

[oblique garnet]

The racial is busted on aoe

[distant crystal]

well yeah light's judgement pumps on opulence

[willow scarab]

champion log next?

[oblique garnet]

On st its marginal

[distant crystal]

i remember it being my #1 dmg on mother

with wall strat

even better cause you'd rip aggro and then die to the adds

for the other LF dmg

kek

[sharp axle]

tips for the bridge on KR?

[willow scarab]

This week?

Biggest tip is don't do KR on teeming

[sick sentinel]

:4head:

[rapid jewel]

just avoid KR all together, regardless off affixes. That dungeon is not the friend of warriors and not worth the effort tbh

[sick sentinel]

I think this is pretty well known but I have to say it again, parsing orange and parsing yellow are 2 completely different things

[distant crystal]

it's gold

smh

[dawn bolt]

Looks more like beige to me

[sick sentinel]

It's piss

Of a very unhealthy person

[steep lily]

Any idea about what general situation essences people are gonna try to go for when they start becoming available? I'm guessing some combination of vision of perfection in the minor slot at least?

[dawn bolt]

Visions major and minor for sure

[steep lily]

I heard the major proc doesnt turn on BoM though, or did they change that?

[dawn bolt]

Not sure, having it proc avatar is enough

BoM is not a make it or break it kinda thing

[steep lily]

True, having a 5s avatar seems kinda awkward tho

not sure if any of the other major ones are better for us tho

[sick sentinel]

If it procs avatar you get a 5 sec bom and a tiny ass ip

If it procs during avatar it only extends avatar

Without bom

[steep lily]

I thought the BoM was absent in the ptr though?

Ah I see, I was probably thinking about it proccing during avatar

[dawn bolt]

Its 7 seconds too btw, you aint gonna sit at lvl 1 for awhile

[steep lily]

yeah

[sick sentinel]

You still get a tiny ip tho

[distant crystal]

why is the ip tiny 😦

[sick sentinel]

You get 35% of an IP

[distant crystal]

is it just like a 25% ip?

[steep lily]

same fraction as the duration im guessing?

[sick sentinel]

That replaces your current one

[dawn bolt]

Getting an IP is not something you'd be thinking about when picking this essences

[sick sentinel]

As of yesterday

[steep lily]

thats pretty annoying

[sick sentinel]

I think sense ( my source of info) said that this is a bug

It should add the ip on your existing one

[dawn bolt]

It'll hopefully be addressed before we can get it

[distant crystal]

seems like it should do the current behavior

where it adds up to a max

like when you IP over an existing

[steep lily]

yeah, that would make sense

[split estuary]

guys

warrior Protection will get nerf?

[sweet kettle]

On a talent yes check the pins

[split estuary]

pins in here?

[sweet kettle]

Yes

[split estuary]

any chat?

[sweet kettle]

What you mean?

[strong forum]

@split estuary check the pinned messages in this channel #protection
Warri will get nerfed, but it's not detrimental. only aligns us more with other tanks

[sand relic]

Is prot getting a big nerf tuesday should we be worried

just read above

ty

sry for my question lol before reading above.

Im so worried are dps will suck now

main reason people were taking us was cause are dps was so good

[autumn pendant]

Also cause really high survivability

And that didn't change

[chilly brook]

@sand relic our dps was a nice thing to have

It's like a 15% overall damage nerf and that's before taking into account neck essences with increased uptime on avatar

so no

we're not getting uber nerfed

[neon tangle]

I imagine warr will be pretty in-line with pally/baer after tuesday

[chilly brook]

If anything it's a preemptive change to keep us in line and not have us completely trash every other tank in damage

Considering the neck will be insane

[neon tangle]

cries in BDK

[chilly brook]

On a side note, unlocked Zandalari finally and the questline was pretty pog

[neon tangle]

I have the reqs I just haven't ever done the quest

[chilly brook]

It was pretty cool

I'll probably race change my main

But like when I come back homer in August

home*

[civic holly]

hi guys

does anyone know if powerder shot on freehold council is blockable?

[primal sable]

the spreadsheet in #268491842637660160 says it is

trust in the spreadsheet

[mental scarab]

What can bears do dmg?🤔

[sleek estuary]

Has there been a consensus about which essence we should get Tuesday?

[strong forum]

Yea bear does actually decent damage in aoe

[tough vault]

rumor has it bear will make a return

will this be the end of vengeance tanks? more after the break.

[exotic spoke]

I don’t think so. Personally I’ll be lucky to have an essence before going into raid given our raid schedule and when i get home

However, my first essence is going to be lucid dreams

That I actually go for *

[willow scarab]

reset is wednesday morning 2am for me and raid isn't till thursday 7pm

got the week off work

gimme that essence grind

[strong forum]

We won't raid until AEP, so thats a thing

[west galleon]

guild making us reclear bod both weeks kinda wanna die

[junior ivy]

what is this monkey game coming out on epic

[chilly brook]

Wadu hek

Crit isn’t viable boys you heard it here first

[tough vault]

Is this YouTube comments

[willow scarab]

Who is this

[strong forum]

Parry doesn't give rage.

Parry from strength?

[dawn bolt]

Y'all are too obsessed with rage

[strong forum]

200 crit is basically -200 haste.

Wow there's so much wrong in what he's spouting.

[chilly brook]

Yes it’s a YouTube comment

[strong forum]

I'm scared for people reading YouTube comments

405 shield already grants 50% block 😂

[chilly brook]

Hey guys apparently I’m wrong

And we’re all wrong

[strong forum]

Bruh 420 shield is 36% block vs mythic raid but hey, what do I know

[chilly brook]

Crit blocks from a 50% dr means you’re taking no damage

[strong forum]

Don't 👏 read 👏 YouTube 👏 comments

[dawn bolt]

Yeah what do you know

[chilly brook]

Because we were wrong on the 85% dr cap

If I don’t read the comments how can I provide the memes?

[strong forum]

:^)

[chilly brook]

Oh wait I’m already supplying the memes by playing Vengeance 🙃

[strong forum]

Bruh

Vdh is giga fun

[junior ivy]

what is the monkey game coming out 😦

[strong forum]

Ever since I raid tanked mekka+stormwall vdh is my 2nd favourite tank again

[chilly brook]

I actually have been really enjoying vengeance

Keeping me involved in the game

They’re hella fun in m+

If a bit stressful when you yo-yo health bar

[dawn bolt]

You can give someone a seizure with your health bar as VDH

[chilly brook]

I mean but I also do like 20k+ hps 🙃

Oh btw

[strong forum]

Exactly

[chilly brook]

Here’s something even more meme worthy from those comments

[strong forum]

My healers said it was really fun to heal vdh actually

[strong forum]

Like lowkey

[chilly brook]

Shield block is on the gcd with other abilities guys

[dawn bolt]

do 20k dps instead of HPS

[chilly brook]

I mean I do over 20k with my DH tho

[strong forum]

He's memeing

[austere oar]

dh is cool to play tbh but there are a lot of time where you feel powerless in terms of mitigation

class is clearly below

[tulip birch]

Ok lets have that discussion about crit

[chilly brook]

Sad thing is I feel like I’m in more control of my life with a vdh than as a BDK

[dawn bolt]

Then youre doing it wrong

Once demon spikes falls off

[austere oar]

DK isn't that strong

[chilly brook]

Sure let’s have that discussion

[dawn bolt]

Crit is good

[primal sable]

crit is great

[chilly brook]

You can’t die if you’re not getting hit 🤔

[austere oar]

my guildmate got OS by Jaina M at like 5 stacks as a bdk lmao, still flaming him for it

[dawn bolt]

Yikes

[chilly brook]

Crit offers good defensive value, while it’s not consistent it’s still damage you don’t take. It also offers huge offensive value. Discussion over.

😉

[tulip birch]

So first off what attacks are effected by crit

Same attacks as block if i recall

Minus ranged attacks

[chilly brook]

Sure....

[tulip birch]

So what is the parry % per crit value

Whats the crit block per mastery value?

[chilly brook]

If you’re gonna make a case for mastery being better than crit sure but not enough for you to not have crit at all

And it’s not like this discussion or topic hasn’t been discussed and analyzed before

In fact there’s this nifty stat evaluation sheet in #268491842637660160

[tulip birch]

The point im making is that its redundant

Prot warrior is already strong vs physical

Absurdly strong

[chilly brook]

Except crit isn’t only a defensive valued stat?

[tulip birch]

Yes but your a tank

Your job isnt offensive values,

[spice ferry]

LOL

[tulip birch]

Prot is exceptionally good at dps right now

[chilly brook]

Being a tank doesn’t make you not responsible to push damage 🤔

[tulip birch]

Yes, so thunder clap has unlimited targets

[chilly brook]

Considering damage=threat

[dawn bolt]

TC has limited target

[tulip birch]

I have never lost threat

Tc has limited range

[strong forum]

:^)

[tulip birch]

Unlimited targets

[dawn bolt]

Nope

[chilly brook]

So when did you start playing prot?

8.1

?

[tulip birch]

Whats the limit

[west galleon]

pretty sure nothing in the game has unlimited targets

[austere oar]

if tank damage was negligeable yeah you could put damage aside, but since it's far from being low it's still pretty important

[dawn bolt]

Every ability has a cap at like 20 or something, I remember thyme mentioned it

[spice ferry]

QuAdRaTiC ScaLiNg

[willow scarab]

Weird to see the same people who tell me off for offensive play sit here and say tanks are about damage

[sick sentinel]

20

[chilly brook]

I mean tank damage can be the difference between a boss kill or a depleted key

[tulip birch]

Ok so if the cap is 20 then always pull 20

[west galleon]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Area_of_Effect scroll to area damage cap

[austere oar]

remember as a BrM on Fetid M I was the first damage dealer on boss dmg among my raid (ofc there are add switches but still)

[exotic spoke]

@tulip birch everyone’s job is maximizing dps. If you’re not maximizing your dps while surviving you’re wrong

[dawn bolt]

#alldmgmatters

[chilly brook]

@willow scarab wat?

[tulip birch]

My point is tanks who cant take 20 are not maximizing their dps

[exotic spoke]

It really does

[strong forum]

I remember in TBC where your dmg got scaled way the fuck down if you pulled too many :^)

Or vanilla even

[west galleon]

nope tb c

[willow scarab]

It lasted into wotlk as well?

[exotic spoke]

Not many tanks can take 20 mobs in high keys lol. Even if I went FULL defensive I couldn’t. Not enough interrupts /ccs

[chilly brook]

I don’t think you have a real point tbh

[tulip birch]

I was prot in MoP

[chilly brook]

MoP lolololol

[willow scarab]

Are there any 20 mob pulls in high keys

There's a 12~ mob one in atal

[tulip birch]

Ok griff if u wanna make ad homen arguments go home

[dawn bolt]

As a tank you should always be looking to do as much dps, it is rare that there is a boss where you gotta buckle down and play defensive

[west galleon]

if ur gonna try to sound smart spell it right 💀

[chilly brook]

You mean to tell me the most broken state of prot and you wanna say your damage as a tank doesn’t matter when you could practically solo a boss in DPS because of vengeance or w/e that stupid mechanic was

[tulip birch]

So if u can barely handle 12 mobs on high key why are y focusing damage, u should b focusing tank and take 13

[willow scarab]

because there are only 12 mobs

[strong forum]

You don't have to tell fumeiyo or most of us, since we have respectable parses

[tulip birch]

Dps will b higher with more adda when u rely on a perfect cleave ability with strong dps

[sick sentinel]

if playing defensive lets you pull more mobs at a time

then sure

[strong forum]

^

[exotic spoke]

@tulip birch because it doesn’t matter if I focus dps or survivability I’d die

[willow scarab]

you should stop talking because you' have no clue how to do dungeons @tulip birch
you should stop too because you don't know how to do dps @chilly brook

this whole discussion is stupid

[sick sentinel]

but you can maximize the amount of mobs you do with every pull

[exotic spoke]

Purely because there aren’t enough interrupts in the world to let me do that

[spiral ravine]

@tulip birch let's say you got covered all the defensives aspect of your gameplay, you are confident you wont die, what now then?

[sick sentinel]

while maximizing your dps

[chilly brook]

Dafuq

I have no clue how to DPS? Wut

[willow scarab]

link your waracraftlogs

[strong forum]

Oof fumei is triggered

[chilly brook]

Ooooook

[willow scarab]

Same person who's told me off for pushing dps to make fights a few seconds quicker or beat transitions etc

[exotic spoke]

Also, there is a point where more dps means less damage as well

[willow scarab]

So I'm not gonna sit and watch you talk about tanks doing dps

especially as someone who probably parses purple on a good day

[chilly brook]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/tichondrius/kaleggula

[tulip birch]

@spiral ravine i believe with the heavy mitigation prot comes with many healer can still dps, 85% mitigation off physical on block and 50 to ip and then demo shout

Per pull

[chilly brook]

Dawg I had several oranges in Uldir

[west galleon]

wtf u haven't even done a normal bod boss

[dawn bolt]

Several has 1

[west galleon]

?

[dawn bolt]

Lol

[tulip birch]

Uldir?

[willow scarab]

look at this

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/tichondrius/kaleggula#zone=19

a joke dude

[tulip birch]

The question was is it worth to build crit? I say no, its better to get haste, verse, mastery

[spiral ravine]

@tulip birch In a m+ context yeah it is

[willow scarab]

Build haste > crit > vers=mastery

[dawn bolt]

Crit/Haste is good

[chilly brook]

I don’t remember telling you off

[spiral ravine]

Since every bit counts, specially when you need to save time by nuking down annoying add packs

[dawn bolt]

Probs forgot just like you forgot that you cant do dps

[exotic spoke]

@tulip birch except the parry it provides in m+ on top of the dps boost is nice

[tulip birch]

Yes but u can get 1% verse slightly lower than crit but the damage reduce is far better

[willow scarab]

The damage helps with speed and the parry feels really, really good

[spiral ravine]

I wouldn't priorize versa or mastery in any context tho

over*

[willow scarab]

You ever parry every backhand in KR?

[west galleon]

mmm yes

[willow scarab]

Parrying an important ability >>>>>>>>>> 1% more vers

vers is the stupid stat nobody likes

[chilly brook]

I like how you link only one part lul

[dawn bolt]

Heroic

[willow scarab]

Nice man

[dawn bolt]

SMH

[west galleon]

h e r o i c parses

[tulip birch]

1% verse = 1% crit mathematically for dps
100 crit > 100 verse for scaling atm

[strong forum]

Well I have 300 versa and 300 mastery and cleared both raids. Parry is huge in m+ due to the sheer amount of melee attacks

[willow scarab]

purple parses when nobody was plying prot warrior

i'm happy for you

[dawn bolt]

In heroic too

[tulip birch]

Yo he a heroic dps boyssss

[strong forum]

Don't bully

Kthx

[chilly brook]

Lmao

[dawn bolt]

Guy asked for it

[chilly brook]

I really didn’t ask for it but hey you know it’s cool

[willow scarab]

We literally had val'kyr tell us off for this same conversation

[strong forum]

I don't recall him calling anyone out for it tbh

[willow scarab]

Where you and a few others were telling me off for explaining the important of dps

[chilly brook]

Show me the receipts dude

[willow scarab]

let me scroll up 20000 messages

[tulip birch]

dps IS important but as a tank u shouldn’t neglect defensives for dps

[chilly brook]

There is a search function in discord my guy

[willow scarab]

Crit is defensive

[spiral ravine]

The thing with prot is, gearing crit doesnt mean you're neglecting defensive since crit= parry

[willow scarab]

Killing things quicker is defensive

[west galleon]

bro u've sent 21k messages alone

in this channel

[spiral ravine]

You're killing two birds with one shot kinda

[potent anvil]

For what its worth, there is a 20 mob count pull in waycrest teeming. Its the whole courtyard minus the back corner. 21 targets, iirc.

[tulip birch]

Thats what verse is

[spiral ravine]

I disagree

[viral arch]

@tulip birch what tradeoffs, to you, are pure "defensive loss for offensive gain"? I can see one, and it's something nobody does - hitting revenge when it isn't free

[strong forum]

Vers is stable and not alot

[viral arch]

crit is more valuable defensively than it is offensively

[dawn bolt]

Ppl hit revenge when it aint free if they wanna do dps

[willow scarab]

@potent anvil Sure you could pull the entire hallway + graal onto him and call that a 30+ mob pull

but who actually does the 20+ pull on a push key

[dawn bolt]

Reaping is 20+

[viral arch]

so many things can be parried that make a night and day difference on your instance

[tulip birch]

Crit doesnt help vs magic where verse does

[willow scarab]

what magic damage in the game dude

[viral arch]

Name me a magical tankbuster

I'm waiting

[strong forum]

There's no magic to be feared

[exotic spoke]

It takes sooooo much vers to negate the damage

[chilly brook]

The verse difference for magic isn’t gonna kill you

[willow scarab]

the entire tier is basically melee

[tulip birch]

The same things u can parry can b blocked

[willow scarab]

shrine and CoS are magic that's it

can't block backhand in KR

[tulip birch]

Whats everyone’s parry rating?

[willow scarab]

so wrong

[strong forum]

Mine is 30%

[chilly brook]

You won’t live stacking vers over crit in almost any situation.

[potent anvil]

This week you can pull everything with raal and lust. I did it on a 22

[strong forum]

Perma

[tulip birch]

Mine sits around 22-24%

[willow scarab]

25$

[exotic spoke]

Can’t remember - not home lol.

[viral arch]

@willow scarab did anybody say you could?

[willow scarab]

Yes

[viral arch]

two people said you could parry it, which is 100% true

[willow scarab]

He just said you can block everything you can parry

[strong forum]

Deswind, did that on an alt key. Hella fun we procced 2x reaping ontop of that boss

[viral arch]

oh, that. Yeah

[west galleon]

lmao ^

[potent anvil]

Same with courtyard and matron. But you need to call CCs for the casts. Otherwise people just die

[strong forum]

But I gotta yeet out of here, gotta work a bit.

[exotic spoke]

Truth - casts go off it doesn’t matter what your vers is - people gonna die

[willow scarab]

good luck surviving high fortified water blasts even with a full vers build

[tulip birch]

@exotic spoke true, verse buffs damage

[willow scarab]

buffs it less than anything else

[chilly brook]

And so does crit

[tulip birch]

@willow scarab u cant survive that with crit

[chilly brook]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[viral arch]

Vers is also less % per point than any other stat.

just saying

[willow scarab]

the point isn't that crit lets you sruvive it

[dawn bolt]

Vers aint bad for dps actually, for me its crit > vers > haste > mastery for dps

[exotic spoke]

Crit is more powerful for dps lol

Also the parry it gives, die to volume of attacks, is more consistent in m+

[spiral ravine]

LOL

[chilly brook]

No one said it was bad for DPS though

[willow scarab]

the point is that your stats don't really matter when magic damage is involved

because it's either controlled or you die

[tulip birch]

I dont die tho

[chilly brook]

This whole conversation is just dumb in general because all your stats are fairly close defensively

[willow scarab]

okay

so you're the best prot in the world with the best group in the world

[tulip birch]

Demo shout spell reflect IP

[willow scarab]

have you ever done a 20?

[exotic spoke]

On what? What’s your experience? Just for a frame of reference

[tulip birch]

No just 17 rn but i dont play much

The math doesnt add up tho

[dawn bolt]

30 mins for a key

[willow scarab]

Sometimes this discord makes me wanna smash my keyboard

[dawn bolt]

So much play right

[chilly brook]

The math does add up

[dawn bolt]

Probs don't do keys cuz they take u 2 hours cuz you bad

[left pecan]

Hey guys, Im making a keybind setup for myself and I notice when googling around that a lot of tanks seems to use "Heroic Throw" over "Taunt". Am I reading this wrong?

[chilly brook]

It’s literally in #268491842637660160

[viral arch]

Imagine thinking a 17 is dangerous

[exotic spoke]

Once you get to 20+ literally every last dps counts. It’s a fucking tight timer.

[tulip birch]

17 was a joke

[dawn bolt]

Suits you

[viral arch]

correct me if I'm wrong but you can take 2 water blasts on 17 fortified and not even feel it

[willow scarab]

You can pull with heroic throw and then thunderclap for aggro to pull from range @left pecan

[tulip birch]

Oh u feel it

[willow scarab]

Try doing a 20+ fortified shrine, even better is fortified raging

[tulip birch]

Im just not dead

[viral arch]

Yeah

[willow scarab]

and go live through no kicks

[viral arch]

on 20+ you flat out die from one

[willow scarab]

Vers really means shit all

[tulip birch]

Its not about not having kicks its about doing ur job as a tank

[viral arch]

so the whole magic argument is pure BS

like

[left pecan]

@willow scarab thanks buddy

[willow scarab]

Your job in 8.1.5 is to pump the fucking dps meters and finish a dungeon above 30k dps

[dawn bolt]

Kicks is what matters, you cant survive alone without kicks

[viral arch]

the only place where magic is actually risky is shadow of zul in KR, everything else you can control

[willow scarab]

there's no "oh let me survive thsi water blast"

[chilly brook]

What makes me wanna smash my keyboard is someone with a chip on his shoulder because someone agrees with what he or she is arguing for

[exotic spoke]

Your job is to maximize dps and survive.

If you’re alive then lose some defense and go more offensive

[chilly brook]

^

[tulip birch]

That would b how arguments work @chilly brook there are 2 sides?

[chilly brook]

That wasn’t directed at you

[willow scarab]

It's not a chip on my shoulder that you're against me in everything I ever say, including tanks doing dps

[sand egret]

@left pecan Slightly different abilities, but Heroic Throw is a ranged pulling tool that generates a bunch of threat. Taunt is a tool to make the target attack you (and push your threat to N +1 of the current highest person).

[willow scarab]

But suddenly I open discord to you saying tank dps is a good thing

[chilly brook]

I’ve never been against tanks doing DPS?

[tulip birch]

Yes dps is important but ur sacrificing too much defense with crit

[dawn bolt]

No point in having excess survivability, you should be going for as much dps as possible. No need for wiggle room defensively with the traits/trinkets because if you're good you wont need that

[viral arch]

Crit is also defensive

[tulip birch]

Yes there is!

Ur ooming ur healers

[willow scarab]

Mila you're talking to people with more raid and more keystone experience than you

[viral arch]

What

[willow scarab]

we all agree that crit is good

[chilly brook]

I’ve literally sacrificed my own defensive stats since legion to push more damage as a tank when I can.....

[viral arch]

I've literally never even dented a healer's manabar

ever

it's typically bullshit affixes or massive AoE doing it

[dawn bolt]

With good play you wont need to spec for defense

[spiral ravine]

@tulip birch ooming your healers depends on your abilities usage more than flat stats

[viral arch]

grievous/bursting/quaking want a word

[willow scarab]

Since Legion you've been playing warrior the way you should have been since MoP then

[chilly brook]

Considering I skipped MoP and played monk in WoD and Legion

[willow scarab]

ooming healers is because they didn't sit down and eat a fucking fish feast between pulls

like

[left pecan]

@sand egret Ive always seen Taunt as the main (and only) spell to pull with, never really thought of Heroic Throw as an option. So its perfectly fine to use HT as your main pull then?

[willow scarab]

what is this level of play....

[tulip birch]

@willow scarab likely! But i have yet to hear anyone explain why verse isnt basically the same as ur argument for crit

[exotic spoke]

If you fuck bursting - then you didn’t play well and well sucksto suck

[viral arch]

I can't remember the last time my healers needed an unexpected pit stop

[tulip birch]

U handle autos fine with block and mastery

[west galleon]

@left pecan be a man use charge

[tulip birch]

ALSO mastery buffs AP

[autumn pendant]

@left pecan also HT has no cd only GCD so you can spam it

[left pecan]

@west galleon ❤

[exotic spoke]

Because the amount of vers you get per point is pretty low lol

[willow scarab]

Crit = big for damage and gives parry in a melee attack heavy meta
Vers = reduces magic damage which is unnecesary in this current patch and gives a baby size amount of damage
@tulip birch there you go

[chilly brook]

^

[wooden radish]

@ionic fern boop. what essences are bis for prot warrior? also can you sim my character? ^____^

[viral arch]

@tulip birch Stop and think for a moment. First off, before we get into anything, 85 vers is 0.5% DR vs. 72 crit for 1% parry.

[exotic spoke]

What fumeiyo said

[left pecan]

so in what situation is Taunt the better choice ?

[dawn bolt]

Most situations

[viral arch]

so, you get roughly twice as much "DR" from crit as you get from vers

and that's before anything else

[dawn bolt]

Ud throw to get stuff that's far away

[west galleon]

crazy this whole pointless argument started from a stupid troll youtube comment

[chilly brook]

The situation where you don’t have aggro on the mob and need to keep it from smacking someone @left pecan

[exotic spoke]

And it’s still better mandl

[viral arch]

the only difference between the two is that vers is flat DR, whereas crit (=> parry) is a chance

[tough vault]

@west galleon troll achieved

[west galleon]

:PENSIVE:

[left pecan]

@chilly brook wont HT do the same though if it generates aggro ?

[west galleon]

omg

im embarrassed bye

[chilly brook]

No

[dawn bolt]

Throw generates aggro

[viral arch]

you can go "vers works on anything" all you want, crit works twice as well and the overwhelming majority of damage in any dungeon can be parried

[exotic spoke]

Think of it this way - in raid you’re 1/20th of the team. Your dps is a little less valuable than in m+ where you are 1/5th the group

[chilly brook]

Taunt forces the target to hit you

Heroic throw builds threat

[left pecan]

ah ok so Taunt is the real PULL (from someone)

[dawn bolt]

If it has no threat before and you throw it

It will aggro to you

For a boss def taunt

youd throw to get random adds

[left pecan]

Ill use HT as my main spell and keep Taunt on standby incase someone else gets hit in the head

[warm plinth]

Yes, taunt is the only one that's going to automatically force the target to attack you. Heroic Throw generates a good chunk of threat but isn't what you want to use in an emergency situation (can't anyway because Heroic Throw has a minimum range)

[viral arch]

@willow scarab worst key for unparryable damage is still shrine, yeah?

[chilly brook]

In order for a target to hit you there has to be one of two conditions met, forced to do so (taunt) or you have to have passed a certain amount of threat to keep it on you

[sharp dew]

@viral arch ofc

[viral arch]

because that's 85-90% parryable from logs, so the whole "magic for vers, crit is bad" is pure BS

Actually, tyra motherlode might be approaching that level due to the last 2 bosses

[hollow relic]

Crit is still generally weaker. RNG vs always active. TBF

[willow scarab]

You don't want to waste taunt to pull a target from range - because if you don't hit the target after taunting you will have no aggro on it AND you won't have a way to get aggro back for 5 seconds (taunt is 3 second threat buff on target with 8 second cooldown). Heroic throw does tiny damage so that generates you a tiny bit of threat, use this to pull from range and then use shield slam or thunder clap to get some proper aggro on the target.

If a target is pulled and you're losing threat or have lost threat - use taunt to get threat back @left pecan

Yes Shrine @viral arch

[dawn bolt]

You can taunt something and throw it if its at range

[chilly brook]

I like how we focused on the crit part of the comment but we ignored Never Surrender

[left pecan]

ok @warm plinth @maiden cliff @autumn pendant @west galleon @sand egret @late wasp . Thank you for taking the time to anaswer some basic noob questions

[exotic spoke]

@hollow relic that is mitigated through the volume of attacks in m+ where you’re less likely to get sucked by rng

[viral arch]

^ that

[willow scarab]

Poor @late wasp this isn't the first time

[dawn bolt]

We ignored never surrender cuz IP isn't that important and you should be going that low

[autumn pendant]

@left pecan thats what this discord is for mate

Dont mind that arguing

[left pecan]

❤

[viral arch]

on 120-150 melee hits parry can RNGfuck you

[chilly brook]

This ain’t the first time the other griff got tagged either

[hollow relic]

All depends on your scenario.

[viral arch]

@hollow relic the scenario was M+

[tulip birch]

@willow scarab @viral arch 72 crit is 1% crit how much parry, 85 verse is 1% damage increase and .5% dr so crit is easier to gain 1% dps increase as 1% crit = 1% verse as far as dos is concerned. MY POINT is that block>parry and ur block chance is 100% with shield block and u can block everything you can parry, why are you doubling down on physical when ur block taking 85% of the physical and ur armor taking 60%? Physical is what warrior destroys at! Take the small 13 secondary loss to mitigate the magic (and physical) a little more

[chilly brook]

In fact I wonder if it was the other griff that started this animosity towards me 🤔

[hollow relic]

I see

[viral arch]

@tulip birch crit->parry conversion is 1:1

[willow scarab]

oh i see the mistake

parry > block @tulip birch

[left pecan]

Im gonna place both HT and Taunt on accesible keys

[autumn pendant]

Parry makes you take no dmg

[tulip birch]

Where is parry better than block?

[wooden radish]

pulling with taunt is super mongo

don't do it

[willow scarab]

parry is 100% DR

block is 85%

[west galleon]

is crit>parry really 1:1? I have like 20 something crit % and 13% parry from crit

[willow scarab]

or less

[chilly brook]

Parry=0 damage taken

[tulip birch]

Yes but the chance is far higher on block

[warm plinth]

You were already given an example of something you can parry that you can't block btw.

[chilly brook]

Block=at best 85% mitigation

[viral arch]

Some parryable attacks cannot be blocked; and beyond that you can only hit 94-95% DR with a crit block. On top of that, some effects flat out do not apply on parry

[tulip birch]

100% chance to take 85% or 30% chance to take 100% reduced

[viral arch]

They're not "or"

[chilly brook]

@viral arch it’s 85% unless something changed

[viral arch]

they're additive

[warm plinth]

No one is saying that parry is better than block btw. That isn't even the argument.

[willow scarab]

You also realize taht you still get shield block as a spell and you still get 50/85% block as a crit build, yes?

[viral arch]

@chilly brook talking total mitigation

[warm plinth]

So idk why you're comparing the two all of a sudden

[willow scarab]

Like you don't lose your ability to block

[viral arch]

you're entirely right, by itself a crit block can go up to 85%

[willow scarab]

vers doesn't even affect your blocking

[late wasp]

wat?

[wooden radish]

i'd rather block because i need my iron fortress dps 😉

[chilly brook]

Block can’t pass 85% though so where is the rest of that total coming from?

[viral arch]

armor and other DR?

[willow scarab]

Iron Fortress is for babies and prog

[modern brook]

I'm confused

[chilly brook]

Block is an armor dr

[modern brook]

whats the conversation here?

[dawn bolt]

Iron fortress aint even good

[chilly brook]

The way block works is it ups your armor that DR percentage

[viral arch]

@modern brook I don't know, the goals keep moving

[wooden radish]

yea, no shit its not good

people are immune to memes.

where is my boy @ionic fern

[modern brook]

How come @sick sentinel is only here to say my ideas are bad

[tulip birch]

@viral arch yes but the difference is i get crit blocks at 40% per block and my parry is still 24% and my verse stops 8% the trade off is 30% to crit block 3% verse for 30% parry

[willow scarab]

I don't know who you are so i'm immune to your memes

half this discord would run IF as a serious choice

[sick sentinel]

it was a joke I said one lmao

[exotic spoke]

@dawn bolt I mean if you need survivability in m+ then it’s good

[modern brook]

:^) Im just giving u a hard time kaege

[ionic fern]

@wooden radish 👋

[wooden radish]

i don't know who you are either 😃

[sand egret]

Shit, I went to get coffee, but seems like they got you covered @left pecan 😃 Yeah, Heroic Throw is the best way to generate a good chunk of aggro (it has a ~300% threat modifier on it, so take the number you see in "damage" and basically quadrouple it and pretend that's what you hit the mob for) at range (which is generally where you pull from). Taunt, does three things. 1) it forces the target to attack you for 3 seconds, regardless of threat levels and 2) it sets your current threat to N+1 of the highest target. If it is already you, this does nothing and 3) makes your subsequent attacks during that 3 second window to produce 300% increased threat. So as you can probably see, doing it off the jump where no one is on the threat table makes it effectively useless in that scenario, so generally HT is the move. If you really want a juicy headstart, slap a Taunt during your big hits to multiply their threat values.

[dawn bolt]

It aint even good for survivability, you can manage your resources and not need it

[wooden radish]

TLDR @sand egret pls

[dawn bolt]

take a DC or BoM instead

[modern brook]

@wooden radish T h r e a t

[warm plinth]

Wow, helping the newbie with algebra Blade? Smh

[sand egret]

TLDR is the complete opposite of me =0

[viral arch]

@tulip birch When you realize that a strawman where you combine every single event and you don't for any other statement gets you nowhere, ping me

[warm plinth]

TLDR B L A D E S O N G

[exotic spoke]

I don’t disagree but for people who feel they need survivability it’s not bad

Also, sometimes you don’t have an option because of RNG and you can’t get triple BoM triple DcC

[willow scarab]

Sometimes when I see prots talk I feel bad for their guilds

[fallow knot]

If heroic throw left the warrior at 400mph and the mob was travelling to California.. how much threat would he have ;)

[warm plinth]

Are we being invaded by DKs? D:

[primal sable]

lol

[tulip birch]

@viral arch im trying not to strawman but there is so much i can only respond to when u respond to me

[modern brook]

Surv doesnt matter right now cause we are outscaling content

8.2 surv will matter again

[viral arch]

Didn't know this was twitter

why is there a limit?

[warm plinth]

@fallow knot B right?!

[left pecan]

thank you @sand egret ❤

[modern brook]

I'm super lost on this conversation

[chilly brook]

There’s nothing wrong with IF

[willow scarab]

Yes there is

[chilly brook]

Is it the most optimal choice? No

[willow scarab]

bad damage and only a small defensive gain

[exotic spoke]

Truth bullfango

[dawn bolt]

You don't need survivability traits and trinkets, just get good

[chilly brook]

Is it bad though? No

[tulip birch]

Hey can you guys parry grong bestial smash or jaina frost bolts?

[modern brook]

I swear to god if i scrol up and all this is over a fucking Blood rite > IF choice ima be mad

[primal sable]

you can block

[dawn bolt]

You will gain more value from getting better dps traits, any "loss" you get from not taking these "defensive" traits can be made up with good play

[willow scarab]

Is any azerite trait bad? No 😜 they all provide some gain and are better than no trait

[chilly brook]

There’s lots of things you don’t need, it doesn’t make them bad

[willow scarab]

good point

[viral arch]

@tulip birch You can parry ice shards, yes

[willow scarab]

If something vastly better exists, it's bad

[warm plinth]

Actually I'm pretty sure you can parry ice shard lol

[viral arch]

they show up as deflected in the logs

[warm plinth]

^

[tulip birch]

@viral arch thats cool i didnt know that

[exotic spoke]

@tulip birch unrelated to the topic at hand. Raids != m+

[chilly brook]

I’ll agree that IF isn’t optimal I won’t say it’s bad

[primal sable]

im not sure there is a topic at hand

[willow scarab]

What is a bad azerite trait then

[dawn bolt]

It is tho, you don't need it. It does piss poor dps

[warm plinth]

The actual argument keeps changing so

[modern brook]

It def dosnt feel that way tbh

[viral arch]

Come to acherus, we have plenty of them

[tulip birch]

@exotic spoke i was more curious than argumentative

[chilly brook]

Any of the Blood DK traits

🙃

[fallow knot]

Lots of bad bdk traits :(

[viral arch]

Damn, /brofist

[willow scarab]

good joke response

Stupid

[chilly brook]

It’s not a joke response though

[exotic spoke]

Fair then mills

[willow scarab]

Talking about IF and warrior traits

[dawn bolt]

BDK got ripped with their traits

[willow scarab]

why would you mention dks

fucking stupid man

[modern brook]

Yikes dude

calm down

[sharp dew]

Lmao this chat

[willow scarab]

I'm gonna go

[chilly brook]

Prot doesn’t have any “bad” traits

[dawn bolt]

It does

[viral arch]

It has relatively bad traits

as in, worse than others

[dawn bolt]

IE bad

[viral arch]

Buddy

[warm plinth]

This is BfA. Where things that aren't the absolute best are shit.

:/

[viral arch]

I can name you a class trait in the game that gives you 35 HPS

[chilly brook]

@modern brook apparently I struck a nerve with him sometime in the past and he’s triggered because I agree with him now and not in the past at some point

[viral arch]

at 415

[thorn spruce]

Mandl bad

😡

[dawn bolt]

Who cares about HPS mandl

[viral arch]

the number isn't an error

[modern brook]

😬

[viral arch]

the only reason I'm mentioning HPS is that's all it gives

[dawn bolt]

Not something you need as prot

[viral arch]

no other effect, no impact on anything else, just 35 HPS

[chilly brook]

Because God forbid someone changes their mind or far more likely someone misses the nuance of a statement

[sharp dew]

Legit 35hps lol which trait

[wooden radish]

you know what gives HPS? Leech. right @ionic fern ?

[tulip birch]

@viral arch makes a good point, prot is the only tank without a self heal so HPS is important

[viral arch]

@sharp dew marrowblood

[primal sable]

dont say the L word

[modern brook]

@wooden radish leech memes are banned

[dawn bolt]

@tulip birch Are you high

[thorn spruce]

What on earth are you guys talking about

[ionic fern]

😂

[dawn bolt]

You don't need HPS as prot, you mitigate

[modern brook]

[dawn bolt]

Jesus Christ man, who needs HPS if you always stay topped

[chilly brook]

So what traits are “bad” for prot? Genuinely curious now

[ionic fern]

Just block.

😒

[warm plinth]

Seriously if that was a sincere comment Milla, you just lost every bit of credibility you might have had.

[thorn spruce]

Mandl is mentioning a different class' azerite trait to clarify what he meant with that theres no bad traits for warrior

[tulip birch]

@dawn bolt in the rare scenario ur healer is dead or healing dos u have to have some way to regain health outside last stand

[wooden radish]

pins? who reads pins

[viral arch]

Does prot warrior have a trait worse than the average generic?

That's where I typically draw the line on objectively "bad" traits

[modern brook]

Just tryna #protection u

[chilly brook]

I mean considering we advocate people to go with any of the prot traits I’d say no

[viral arch]

Right.

[dawn bolt]

Youll be fine without a healer

[viral arch]

So you have prot traits worse than other prot traits

but overall they're all good

[dawn bolt]

You mitage everything, and your healer shouldn't die

[modern brook]

@viral arch i consider Bloodpsort and CR worse than some neutrals

[willow scarab]

There are no bad traits

[chilly brook]

Yes

[willow scarab]

However

In a world where ridiculously good traits exist

[chilly brook]

I thought you were gonna go

[willow scarab]

picking a trait that isn't even close to the top of the pack

[chilly brook]

🤔

[willow scarab]

is a bad trait

Can I mute someone in a discord

[ionic fern]

What are you guys even arguing about it's like a cesspool of topics in here.

[chilly brook]

No it’s just suboptimal

[willow scarab]

that's like a synonym for bad

[dawn bolt]

@ionic fern This channel always talks about dumb stuff

[willow scarab]

how do i mute you

[warm plinth]

Lol

[chilly brook]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[viral arch]

@ionic fern it started on some BS advice from somebody doing shit keys mandating dumb things

[dawn bolt]

Just block him

[autumn pendant]

Right click on him and block him

easy

[viral arch]

and now it has split the crowd into azerite fanclubs

[modern brook]

@ionic fern I'm pretty sure the current topic at hand is how much ☣ can we fit into the chat before sal starts time-outs

[wooden radish]

@ionic fern can we talk about how you'll be simming my warrior

[tulip birch]

@viral arch just @me bro

Lol

[dawn bolt]

Your warrior is irrelevant @wooden radish

[warm plinth]

Blocking someone in Discord sucks because you still see when they post.

[chilly brook]

Truuuuuueeeee

[willow scarab]

I can see that

[ionic fern]

No Lincoln..i can give you tips with logs tho. ❤

[wooden radish]

@dawn bolt yours too.

[willow scarab]

That's pointless then

[chilly brook]

And you’re tempted to click on it

[tulip birch]

You guys block people?

[chilly brook]

And see what they said

[sick sentinel]

how does it look when you block somebody

[modern brook]

only as an admission of defeat

[warm plinth]

Yeah it just becomes annoying because if you want to participate in the current convo, you’ll get lost if you don’t know what they said

[modern brook]

@sick sentinel its literaly a spoiler

[sick sentinel]

haven't done it before lmao

[dawn bolt]

@wooden radish Wrong

[sick sentinel]

just get off the chat

[modern brook]

it says "a person u have blocked has posted"

[willow scarab]

Is there a Skyhold 2.0 or anything where higher experienced prot scan go and discuss things

[warm plinth]

It just comes up with a bar that says blocked message like a spoiler tag

[chilly brook]

I really don’t understand why we can’t just get along, sorry if I triggered you at some point

[wooden radish]

@dawn bolt 👎

[warm plinth]

And you can click it to read it

[chilly brook]

The shade is real

[willow scarab]

I want to have discussions that only really apply to cutting edge / io pushing / 99%+ logs

[modern brook]

@willow scarab i think r/wow got u

[dawn bolt]

@willow scarab Would be nice, been ages since that's happened here

[chilly brook]

I guess that means pretty much no one in this discord would be there

[willow scarab]

It's literally just in private messages between a few warriors

[warm plinth]

If this chat pisses you off, Reddit will destroy you.

[potent anvil]

When you block someone:

[modern brook]

[strong forum]

I would be there I think

[sharp dew]

@potent anvil Hellllllo

[strong forum]

Maybe

[potent anvil]

@sharp dew

[warm plinth]

:Desmond:

Wow iPhone

[strong forum]

:thonk:

[modern brook]

:desmond:

[warm plinth]

RIP Deswind

[willow scarab]

Was Skyhold ever a good place for warrior discussion above entry level

Like has it always been this

[strong forum]

When it's calmed down a bit ye

[soft kindle]

Depends who you talk to

[dawn bolt]

Was better back in antorus

[warm plinth]

I mean, it’s a warrior community. Not a top 1% community.

[strong forum]

Been here since beta, had quite some nice talks

[modern brook]

🤷 generally it gets like this when 1-4 people are being increadibly antagonistic for no reason

[willow scarab]

I'll cop that

[chilly brook]

It’s been pretty good in general

[dawn bolt]

O_O

[soft kindle]

There's people all the way from top 10 guilds to normal only 🤷

[willow scarab]

Has anyone killed Uu'nat with 4 healers

mythic

in this chat right now

[cinder pasture]

Nah, I'm too casual for mythic raids 😎

[strong forum]

3 heal or nub.

[chilly brook]

Why does it matter?

[strong forum]

:^)

[modern brook]

I've literally done it with 0 healers tbh

[willow scarab]

We're at 4% with 3 healers and I want to talk about how to finish our prog

that's why

[chilly brook]

Ok

[strong forum]

I have a proposition but you're not gonna like it

[viral arch]

@modern brook he said kill, not get killed

[modern brook]

OOF

[willow scarab]

wait for 8.2 essences?

[dawn bolt]

Talk to sense

[modern brook]

ive been got

[strong forum]

Just kill hit :4head:

I just had to do it

Sorry

[chilly brook]

Lol

[tulip birch]

What do you guys think best 8.2 essences are going to be

[soft kindle]

I don't know why you'd jump to 4 healers

[willow scarab]

Tanking outside of BrM on UU'nat is insane

[viral arch]

We talking straight up 3 healers or a budget IP shaman @willow scarab

[soft kindle]

but I've heard of weirder things

[willow scarab]

You run out of personals and externals

[chilly brook]

I mean 4% sounds like you’re on the right track

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warm plinth]

I saw that Blizzard added that troll tip in-game about lowering the mob’s HP to 0 before yours hits 0... lol

[willow scarab]

3 proper healers

[viral arch]

because if it's not the second you might want to invest in the second if it's an option

[exotic spoke]

Vision major, lucid minor and I dunno maybe sphere for m+

[warm plinth]

I’m sure that happened a long time ago but I’m unobservant

[viral arch]

just the extra totems might tide you over

(quality pun right there)

[willow scarab]

I know Sense swapped to 4 healing and so did a few other logs

[viral arch]

most people 3.5 AFAIK

as in, 3 proper healers and a resto shaman with DPS traits

[willow scarab]

not from what I see in logs

no battle shamans

[modern brook]

Vision Major 100% I've heard ppl argue against lucid, namely saying shit like "depends on proc rate" but i still think most minors arent worth running over it

[willow scarab]

just 3/4 proper healers

lucid until vision is released

then lucid in the minor slot

[soft kindle]

10 battle shamans have killed Uu'nat as fourth healers

[chilly brook]

TBH I’m fairly certain we got a damage nerf in 8.2 not because of current performance but because of vision

[tulip birch]

It was literally quoted because we do too much dps

[modern brook]

I mean

[willow scarab]

Must be more kills since I last looked

[sand egret]

both, UF was nerfed for scaling reasons.

[modern brook]

His point is that we do so much damage in avatar that having a 60% + uptime on avatar seems like a good reason to tone down its damage

[viral arch]

The nerf happened at the same time as the first version of vision came out (i.e. when vision was proccing all traits) so it could be either

[willow scarab]

I hope you guys banked your azerite as well

I'm looking to have 55 neck for minors by the time raid is out

[exotic spoke]

But the second nerf happened preemptively

[west galleon]

banked azerite?

[chilly brook]

Tbf if they thought we did too much damage the nerf would’ve been in 8.1

[warm plinth]

Did you see they reverted the AP change Fum?

[willow scarab]

paragons/missions/2 emissaries/against overwhelming odds / treasure map / island items

Yeah thank god

[west galleon]

paragons won't give azerite i don't think

but yeah the others will be good

[willow scarab]

yes they will

[west galleon]

godspeed

[willow scarab]

just 30k not 45k

30k still a lot

[viral arch]

Paragons give azerite on quest hand-in

[west galleon]

they changed it to give az on turn in

[viral arch]

the box itself is empty

[warm plinth]

The chests don’t give AP. But you can still bank the quests

[viral arch]

you've lost 15k AP since you've lost the ability to bank a chest

[willow scarab]

That’s the thing

[viral arch]

that's the basic takeaway

[warm plinth]

Have one ready to turn in and be 1 rep away from another.

[viral arch]

the remaining 30k are still there

[willow scarab]

I’m 19999/10000

So I still get 30k

Which is heaps for freee

[thorny pumice]

You're supposed to hold your M+ chest this week too right? Until you complete the opening quests or w/e

[willow scarab]

No

[autumn pendant]

you wont be 55 by time raid comes

I m sure of it

lol

[willow scarab]

How much you wanna bet

I have 700 rabbit charms

[autumn pendant]

Honor

Crazy man

[west galleon]

some people are so crazy to me

gl tho

[willow scarab]

I’ll be 51.5 the day of release

At least

[chilly brook]

I couldn’t imagine grinding AP in this xpac

More power to you for having the stomach for it

[willow scarab]

I just did the 81k level each week and got 50 in no time

Easy done

[warm plinth]

81k?

[autumn pendant]

Cleared whole map and did islands is my bet

[west galleon]

im just gonna stick to doing some wq and weekly island and mission table

[chilly brook]

If only blizz swapped to a “is the content fun” approach instead of a “will this keep people playing for long periods of of time” approach

[west galleon]

happily slowly move along the heart levels lol

[chilly brook]

@west galleon doing the weekly islands even feels like a chore to me, they’re just not that fun tbh

[willow scarab]

To do an 84k level a week I did Azerite wqs and that was it

[agile spruce]

TLDR the last 1 hour of this discord please? 500 messages is WAY too much

[west galleon]

ya i don't like doing them either but it takes like 15 minutes or less so it's not the worst imo

[willow scarab]

You could get over 10k a day from quests alone

[viral arch]

@chilly brook they did

people do the content

so the content must be fun

[chilly brook]

@agile spruce crit is good that all you need to know

[viral arch]

statistics don't lie my friend

[chilly brook]

Lol

[west galleon]

i mean there are people that like the content and there are people that don't

nbd

both are valid

[warm plinth]

Is that sarcasm?

[viral arch]

Of course it's sarcasm, but it was stated on Q&A

[willow scarab]

Azerite has more or less been in the game since wotlk in one form or another

It’s just worse now

[warm plinth]

Okay I was just making sure. That didn’t sound like you lol

[viral arch]

What

Do I know you?

[willow scarab]

Legendary weapon weekly raid clears, cape clears in mop etc

[chilly brook]

Genuinely curious but what was the equivalent of azerite in Wrath

[willow scarab]

Always been a weekly grind

Shadowmourne

[viral arch]

@chilly brook set bonuses, sort of

[warm plinth]

Not really but I’ve read a lot of what you say. I’m in Acherus too.

[chilly brook]

That’s not the same though

[viral arch]

a single trinket in wrath was more powerful than most of today's azerite

[willow scarab]

It’s an early form of the same idea

Then mop capes were the big development of the same thing

[viral arch]

tbf the ICC 2set of most specs was actually very similar in design to some of the better azerite traits

[chilly brook]

I mean then so is Thunderfury by that logic

[willow scarab]

Do the weekly grind and get your strong xpac item

[viral arch]

Actually

you want a good analogy in terms of item design?

BWL class trinkets

[chilly brook]

There was an end in sight for shadowmourne

[willow scarab]

Yeah sam@ewith Azerite

[chilly brook]

and it was a powerful item in the last tier

[willow scarab]

70 neck is the end

[viral arch]

There's an end in sight for azerite?

[willow scarab]

Shadowmourne was a very long grind too

[viral arch]

🤔

[chilly brook]

It wasn’t something that was bottlenecked and designed to keep you grinding the whole xpac

[viral arch]

Careful

beyond 65 grinding azerite is for marginal gains

[chilly brook]

And it was only given to 3 classes

[viral arch]

as in, you-will-barely-notice gains

[willow scarab]

It’s essential in my eyes

[viral arch]

you really felt the power gain between the 3 stages of shadowmourne

[willow scarab]

But I’m a hardcore player

So eh

[viral arch]

Don't forget as well, shadowmourne was ultra-restricted

25-only

[chilly brook]

Like legendaries that a group worked towards and individual grinds that are designed to keep you logging in every day are completely diffferent systems

[viral arch]

required full clears on at least normal but heroic cut the grind down by 40%

[willow scarab]

then scrap shadowmourne if it suits you better

mop is the first rendition of this style of grind

[viral arch]

Again, not really. You did the thing, you completed the thing, you got your power gain

versus you can keep spamming islands to be 0.3% stronger

[chilly brook]

I’d say WoD rings

[willow scarab]

that's why i said rendition

and not ~ exact same as now ~

[viral arch]

WoD rings were both

you had the giga power spikes

and then the tiny upgrade every week

[chilly brook]

Since they were with you the whole xpac

[willow scarab]

so was the mop grind

[west galleon]

i liked wod ring but not getting wod ring

[tulip birch]

I cant find the lucid 8.2 essence wtf is it

[west galleon]

i still have mine i think somewhere

[tulip birch]

Nvm got it

[chilly brook]

I thought the MoP cape was introduced with the timeless isles

[exotic spoke]

Rage refund as a minor

[viral arch]

The WoD ring became fun when you had 16 arcane mages