whats traits for m+ tanking https://gyazo.com/fbce7b02ec70e9f274d7056402ffa56c
#protection
neon tangle
@sand relic Do you have plans for any professions?
lusty grotto
either IF + CR or IF + tradewinds are good
neon tangle
Eng can give you a good helm
lusty grotto
he already bought the helm
lusty grotto
go to mythic champs, pug it, and use a bonus roll if you don't get it
you can also get a 415 shield there, and some other off-pieces
so it's a good idea to do it
ashen maple
does swirling sands work in prot spec??
lusty grotto
of course it does
exotic spoke
415 shield is tits
lusty grotto
blood siphon is good defensively (with a bit of offense since mastery increases attack power), hmc is good offensively
ablative shielding is meh
sand relic
so since im only 404 with a 380 sword n 375 shield i should use blood siphon im guessing
lusty grotto
sure
ashen maple
so how come reckless furry doesnt work with auto attacks in prot spec?
or w/e that trait is
warm plinth
It does.
oblique garnet
Did you use devastator?
ashen maple
no i did not
warm plinth
ashen maple
does that change it?
warm plinth
Reckless Flurry damage shows separate of auto attacks
warm plinth
That's from a random log. I don't raid. It'll work regardless of whether you're using Devastator or not. Devastator is separate from AAs as well.
You can see Deva damage listed two spots above the RF damage in that SS
ashen maple
ok ty
warm plinth
Also I just noticed that the title of that log session is "Jaina Dies Tonight" and they did actually kill her lul
proud yoke
Question: If I somehow end up in a situation where I dont have either IP or SB up and I am forced to pick between the two which should I priotitize
sick sentinel
ayyy i beat that 14 FH
neon tangle
@proud yoke SB in 99% of situations
You prolly need to adjust how you're looking at it
You want to maximize your effective SB uptime
IP (and revenge) are used to spend your excess rage
proud yoke
Ok thanks
neon tangle
in rare situations where you can't block stuff, or that stuff is small (e.g. last two bosses of ML, shadow of zul in KR) you should skip SB and use IP
proud yoke
Alright
neon tangle
also you mentioned having IP "up"
just to be sure, IP uptime is not a metric you care about at all
exotic spoke
KR is the devil Bobby Boucher
proud yoke
Okay I just meant as in both buffs are missing
exotic spoke
On a serious note - do you have an IP tracker so you’re not over capping IP (for lack of a better phrase) and wasting it?
proud yoke
Yea I do
exotic spoke
Kk
lusty grotto
Over capping IP is not as bad if you're just looking to spend rage and you have free revenges, though, just to be clear
Free revenges = no rage spent = doesn't trigger AM
But that's a sidenote
time for the bracer of the week
i feel like streaming this bracer opening
anyone care to watch? :p
sick sentinel
i got bad 410 legs
fresh dragon
nstoppable Force Avatar increases the damage of Thunder Clap by 50%30%, and reduces its cooldown by 50%.
lusty grotto
lusty grotto
oh wow
sick sentinel
old night
okay im posting a vid in off topic, i promise you this is the funniest fucking thing youve seen in a while
lusty grotto
jesus
exotic spoke
@neon tangle there’s another nerf?
exotic spoke
Sad panda
neon tangle
from 100% on live
exotic spoke
So what - about 8 % single target and 14% non stupid aoe
neon tangle
I mean, assuming the scaling is linear, it was a 6% ST nerf, so now maybe 8-9%, 12-14% on AoE?
yeah
supple lily
maybe we ended up actual tanks instead of aoe dps machines when 8.2 will hit live
exotic spoke
Maybe 15? Just a rough estimate
neon tangle
we'll have to wait for @fierce juniper to math it
exotic spoke
We are actual tanks. We fucking mitigate like a god
lusty grotto
^
final mist
In terms of physical mitigation, no one beats us.
lusty grotto
inc bracers
final mist
We just also do mongoloid DPS.
exotic spoke
What Sal said
supple lily
True, but people look at dps, not mitigation.
neon tangle
also worth noting it's stacked against essences
exotic spoke
Maybe over compensating for expected avatar / essence of perfection?
supple lily
How often have you hearfld "man, that warriors take no damage"
exotic spoke
Like - that was going to be stupid if they didn’t
neon tangle
@exotic spoke until that stuff is more settled it might be under-compensating 😛
oblique garnet
@supple lily alot
exotic spoke
Honestly - my healers say that frequency @supple lily
Truth sadbox
He throws up a hot or two and goes kitty for while
neon tangle
vision of perfection is back down to 35% of duration with this patch too
exotic spoke
It’s been that way for a while I thought
supple lily
Well maybe it's sad pugworld then on my side
neon tangle
it got bumped up to 45% again for a bit
exotic spoke
7 second avatar proc. Ahh ok
neon tangle
the tanks I'm actually worried for right now are BDK, vision got fancied up for bears and monks
oblique garnet
Wont happen as long as they are wet cardboard
exotic spoke
You can’t heal back the damage if you’re dead
analog swift
What is the vision for monks?
neon tangle
@analog swift they changed it to the ox summoning thing
the talent
not like, great
bears got swapped to ursoc
outer dew
#giveSwordblock2DKS
neon tangle
which seems pretty nifty
outer dew
lmao
you're
actually fucking me
you have enough to kite already
but they giving bears ursoc vortexx?
fuck that shit
supple lily
wut
cloud gorge
incarnation: guardian of ursoc
exotic spoke
The real question is - at what point do we stop considering that talent?
neon tangle
@outer dew whattttt
neon tangle
I thought the vortex was Ursol
oblique garnet
@exotic spoke there might be chance that if its significant you will run something else
lusty grotto
well i got boned by the chest
cloud gorge
the vortex is ursol
lusty grotto
got KR 2 hander
neon tangle
@outer dew Do you even play baer
lusty grotto
azerite boned chipadin, no glimmer helm 😦
outer dew
you just call it incar
LMAO
esp when you tell me
monks get shafted with statue
???
neon tangle
@lusty grotto IIRC the eng helm has it
lusty grotto
im not gonna swap my paladin to engi though
outer dew
why would i think it'd be incarn?
exotic spoke
@oblique garnet yeah - I’m just curious what that point is.
I’m betting it’s about ~8% single now and ~15% aoe overall nerf
neon tangle
Because it's the one that makes sense to think is kinda nice 😛
warm plinth
Fucking Tofu in here having a goddamn heart attack
oblique garnet
15% aoe nerfs put us about equal to guardians in aoe damage
8% st damage makes us equal to paladins in ST
lusty grotto
our utility 😢
exotic spoke
It’s an estimate just based on what the initial nerf did and the relative increase
sweet kettle
guardians pulling big means they need to have 2 SI ready
exotic spoke
Spell reflect
oblique garnet
Yeah and my estimates are based on what guardian can do now
lusty grotto
ya im joking riki
oblique garnet
Guardians pump constant aoe they dont burst like warrior
exotic spoke
I ❤ spell reflect
oblique garnet
Even i will agree that warriors doing 350k in aoe packs shouldnt be acceptable as tanks
exotic spoke
Throw in perfection - too early to sim I know - and I think our dps is still going to be too
Time will tell
sweet kettle
druid can be amazing but they need something more
lime mantle
Didn’t perfection get changed to not reduce the cd and gives haste instead?
oblique garnet
They need more ST damage
neon tangle
@outer dew does anyone take incarn for m+?
exotic spoke
I mean. That’s a different discussion but you’re not wrong
neon tangle
it does seem like a bummer that they have to choose between their avatar and their ST dps increase
sweet kettle
like bark at 1.5 min wtf
errant shuttle
outer dew
galatic guardian is too big of a dps incrreas
neon tangle
gg is the least fun talent
sweet kettle
w8 we were nerfed again?
sage niche
thunder clap has been removed from the game gl guys
exotic spoke
Yes
warm plinth
There was procced CDR on the major before Riki. Now there's just flat CDR on the minor
sweet kettle
thank god i have my druid ready to go
exotic spoke
Additional 20% on uf
warm plinth
They removed the CDR on the major and made it a haste buff when major procs or some shit
exotic spoke
Fuck being a furry
neon tangle
@exotic spoke afaik you just get the major power
warm plinth
Nah, major slot gets both major and minor. Minor slots get only the minor
neon tangle
TIL
exotic spoke
Fuck it. Take that as the minor and the pearlescent as the major. Get the Cd even lower through more rage to spend from refund and the minor proc
steel mauve
the newer nerf change might actually bring our burst more inline with other tanks dps honestly
exotic spoke
Yeah, but I think the essences benefit our dps more than other tanks
warm plinth
Not that they've said
exotic spoke
So major triggers the activation for 7 seconds and then instead of the minor (CDR) it gives a haste buff?
warm plinth
No it's not instead of the minor
neon tangle
I mean, 15% AoE damage nerf vs. the increase in avatar uptime would put it pretty close to the same
warm plinth
There used to be procced CDR on the major AND flat CDR on the minor
Now the procced CDR on the major is gone
But we still have flat CDR on the minor
At least, last I read
exotic spoke
Oh! Ok, so if it’s major we get the activation, haste, and the minor CDR
warm plinth
Correct
exotic spoke
More rage to spend means shorter cooldowns
neon tangle
I'd rather have more crit or something
exotic spoke
The rage refund gives more survivability too though
warm plinth
How much is the rage refund/how often?
exotic spoke
With last stand :/ shield wall
Don’t know details. Even if I did they could change tomorrow
But I believe it’s anduance to refund all rage used on an ability
lusty grotto
im not sold on the rage refund
neon tangle
@exotic spoke I mean, rage refund is basically survival only, right?
at best you get more IPs
exotic spoke
Nah sad
neon tangle
and I guess slightly faster avatars
lusty grotto
it resets avatar and demo
sage niche
more avatar demo shout =more deeps
warm plinth
More rage spent = more avatar and demo
warm plinth
You're going to be just pumping rage into worthless IPs though unfortunately, if that were the case
Which feels kinda bad, ngl
Assuming an M+ situation where you're getting a lot of free revenges
sage niche
warrior is gonna be so much of a spam buttons fucks fest like it is not already :8
exotic spoke
Conceptually it synergizes with AM and all of our abilities
neon tangle
@exotic spoke I mean, while AM is good, I'd look at it pretty closely, with current gear damage-wise crit is better even tho it doesn't feed in to AM
and crit is also fairly good defensively as well
hushed whale
heed my call vs unstable flames?
neon tangle
I don't think that rage-refund is a clear winner
warm plinth
Unstable Flames
lusty grotto
this is good though
exotic spoke
It’s too early to say for sure but I’d want to look at it.
Potentially having avatar at close to 100% up time for damn near guaranteed crit blocks / more thunder claps at 30%! Bonus damage! Whooo hoooo
warm plinth
Frankly I'm just glad they're nudging us down instead of just gutting something and then we're fucked because they don't know how to fix it
lusty grotto
trait discussion 
exotic spoke
Agree ghash
lusty grotto
👋 bdk rerollers
lime mantle
They’ll never go
oblique garnet
@exotic spoke do you have a link to all the essences?
lusty grotto
😦
lime mantle
They have tasted movement and pressing more than 2 buttons
neon tangle
@exotic spoke especially vs. some specs which could more directly use the extra resources, it would mean more DS for BDK, etc
lusty grotto
lmao
warm plinth
I think the only consolidated essence info is the wowhead news article but it's outdated
At least, that I can find
exotic spoke
@oblique garnet I’ll see what I can find. I just know what has stuck out to me when the discussions came up
warm plinth
Can you link what you found?
exotic spoke
Mind sharing it? Sorry had to actually drive
sick sentinel
Idk if there is any for us
dense flame
more soul cleave buffs 
warm plinth
lol
oblique garnet
With the UF Change if you run vision of perfection + the refund as minor you will generate more rage + the minor essence also increases your versatility which will lead to more dps
warm plinth
Havoc got nerfed slightly
oblique garnet
You can also pair it with sphere of suppression which minor gives you haste or aegis of the deep which gives even more vers
exotic spoke
@oblique garnet mind posting that link of all essences you found?
oblique garnet
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/heart-of-azeroth-essence-overview#essencesspec-memory-of-lucid-dreams
exotic spoke
So you're thinking Major - Perfection. Minor - Rage Refund (pearlescent) - Minor - Essence that gives Vers?
oblique garnet
2nd Minor either Aegis or Sphere
Aegis will be easier to obtain but overall in m+ i think sphere will provide more value
oblique garnet
The memory itself at rank 1 doesnt provide much other than the refund but at rank 3-> it will also provide you with 385 vers
oblique garnet
that paired with the maximum amount of aegis gives 450 vers
exotic spoke
WTF
All social things in game are fucked
I cant see /write in guild chat. I can't see guild roster
I can't see / write in officer chat.
I cant see my realid friends
mortal brook
How we feelin bois
spice ferry
ive had that before
exotic spoke
This happening to anyone else here too?
exotic spoke
messaged all other officers and they have the same issue
lusty grotto
officer chat too
spice ferry
log out and back in
lusty grotto
might be specific to your realm
exotic spoke
I did
young marlin
Any stupid tricks for Jaina for a Prot?
exotic spoke
aww fuck
oblique garnet
@exotic spoke Combining those 2 essences as minor give ~10% vers on top of the added uptime on avatar so overall i dont think the nerf will hurt too much after a bit of an grind
exotic spoke
I dont think so either.
iron drift
should i still be using quick nav for weapon enchant or swap to masterful? 1438 haste raiting and 39.32% with 5 stacks of Into the fray
exotic spoke
I think we'll still be top
oblique garnet
But will have to wait on some additional math from Marok
exotic spoke
Truth. I think our hypothesized %s will be close. But yeah
oblique garnet
Theres also the anima of life and death essence
Which if you dont fall below 35% sounds amazing
mortal brook
Aka free bursting and quaking dmg
oblique garnet
Now this is just quick maths done at 3 am im counting on marok to tell the more comprehensive results
mortal brook
There was a similar trinket from hfc off tyrant. Never met anyone that used it
sick sentinel
We can do all the math we want, but if there's a Reddit thread about prot being shit now because of the nerf it won't matter
warm plinth
Just means we can get rid of the rerollers who have 2% uptime on Shield Block in keys ¯_(ツ)_/¯
fluid sun
imagine people saying Prot is shit when it legit did like triple the damage of any other tank prior to the nerfs 🤔
mortal brook
Lol everyone post for funsies. No one gets invited to m+ next seaaon until next. mDI lol
exotic spoke
RIP Kids
supple path
The average redditer-type doesn't think prot warriors do literally anything well other than hit thunder clap in AE
"physical mitigation? spell reflect? WTF NOOB THAT'S NOT AVATAR"
mortal brook
They are 50 percent correct 45 percent of the time
sick sentinel
They know we use leech and thunderclap
supple path
My favorite "stupid intercept moment" is intercepting the ranged dps who are failing to kite the first boss in siege.
oblique garnet
We also did 3x the damage of any other tank in s1 but nobody cared about that
supple path
get them two free hits of not getting knockbacked as they try and fail to get in bomb positions
sick sentinel
Shut the hell up Late
Ur talking non sense
supple path
And god it's so useful in raids to be able to take 1-2 hits from other tank whenever you want it.
oblique garnet
😦
supple path
If your co-tank dies while you have an intercept charge available, oops you misplayed.
sand egret
sick sentinel
This whole channel was created in 8.1
sand egret
fucckkkk
supple path
prarms, that weird shield-based AE dps class that was around at bfa release
oblique garnet
Oof blade
mortal brook
Wow gratz blade. Lucky
fluid sun
Yeah, I love having Intercept
sick sentinel
Maybe u can get that TF to shave off 30 seconds
sand egret
😑
sand egret
in 8.0 i got a 395 one too...pretty sure it's still in my bank
sand egret
looks like this one has a new buddy
sick sentinel
I feel like blizz would put a TF reduce CD as part of the options u can roll on
Since they decided to put gems in their
sick sentinel
Which to this fucking day I don't understand why
lime mantle
Everyone does
fluid sun
True
oblique garnet
The good days when blacksmith could make gem slots into gear
fluid sun
The good days when professions had combat benefits
lime mantle
@sick sentinel because of and I quote “it meant shitty players forgot to enchant/gem their shit”
fluid sun
Pretty much, yeah
lime mantle
There is a post somewhere
sand egret
lol
fluid sun
I have to go to town to buy gems and enchants BabyRage
sand egret
I ain't even going to get into this circle jerk lol
sick sentinel
U said that right as I was about mention enchants
lime mantle
While it’s sorta true it’s absurd to need an enchant AND GEM and sometimes BS gem if belt for every piece there is a balance y’know.
supple path
I just had a flashback about having to level up two tradeskills on alts before they were "ready" and wanted to kill myself.
fluid sun
join usssssssssssss @sand egret >:)
smoky iris
Meticulous scheming any good?
oblique garnet
@smoky iris yes after the buffs its one of the best for m+
sick sentinel
Cause I feel it in my kokorio that will make gear enchantable from TF since enchants from rings might as well not fucking exist
sand egret
🤦
sick sentinel
U know it's gonna happen
I'm pointing to the stands directly at the WrestleMania sign and I'm calling it
It's gonna happen
And im gonna hate it
sand egret
mmhmm
well, looks like UF got nerfed yet again
queue the warriors coming in here asking if we're dumpster
have fun! 😃
spice ferry
hI gUyS hAvE YOu sEeN tHe pTr nErFS wILl I StILl bE AbLe tO tImE mY 10s
sick sentinel
Is it time for the roar?
Is it time to roar at a motherfucker and skip leg day?
Cause I got some tea and can start practicing my dragon roars
sand egret
idk, i'm just reading the last ptr notes just posted up saying it went from 50% > 30%
sick sentinel
Ah
sand egret
if that's old news than my b
sick sentinel
Just rework the spell
edgy juniper
nope it's new
sand egret
aye so definitely still time for the whineparade
sick sentinel
Also fucking fix or remove RAVAGER u fucking cowards
lusty grotto
you missed it but there's more to come
lusty grotto
no, im blaming you for this one
sand egret
naw I was the crazy one, remember?
lusty grotto
screw your blizzard buddy
sand egret
there was "no way" they would nerf UF
lusty grotto
can i get a cc spell
lime mantle
skip leg day
I skipped leg day I now feel sick and I lost all of my leg gains
sick sentinel
Can I get a key to wrath server
sand egret
not until 2024
lusty grotto
im joking of course 😃
sick sentinel
Nah, u aint
supple path
I'm at the point with nerfs where it's just...whatever, I'll see how things feel once 8.2 actually releases.
sick sentinel
supple path
Though if they ever add something like "Enhanced the dancing bear animation. Dancing bears now dance more bear-like than ever." THAT would make me dump the warrior.
lusty grotto
im just gonna forever be angry at the whole bring the class not the player u-fucking-turn in bfa
sick sentinel
Bring the player man
sand egret
Iol I'm not even going to unpack that one haha
supple path
Bring the class, then bring the different class next fight, and the different class the one after that.
So really I guess what you want is the player with every class.
sick sentinel
Bring the class, then nerf it
sand egret
but, there are two underlying issues that fundamentally make that something that won't be achieved
sick sentinel
Here's how u fix that problem
lime mantle
Play trivial content
supple path
Stop letting specific classes completely negate certain challenging mechanics on a fight-by-fight basis?
lime mantle
That way it doesn’t matter what class you bring.
sick sentinel
Do it literally the same way ff14 does it
Be a company and charge a class change servicd
That's ur 2 options
supple path
FF11/14 class changing feels so much better than alts in wow.
sand egret
in ffi4 you can be any class
its like the entire game, there is no charge...you just swap the weapon
sick sentinel
It's two options
supple path
I don't want to be a ninja, and a paladin, and a mage, and a bard who saved the world four different times. I want to be a stealthy holy warrior whose music is magic who saved the world once.
sick sentinel
U either do it ff14 or u do it company style
Also put a fucking bard in u fucking cowards
lyric summit
Rip, another nerf to prot
sick sentinel
PUT A BARD IN UR FUCKING FANTASY GAME U PIECES OF SHIT
sand egret
haha
lusty grotto
congratulations on making the list Kargish!
sand egret
anywho, I agree with the fact that certain classes dominate, but I also have a different opinion in that it's not a bad thing entirely
mystic whale
ARE WE DUMPSTER YET
lusty grotto
6
lyric summit
What list?
lusty grotto
def not a bad thing
sick sentinel
The list
lusty grotto
the list of course
lyric summit
The listy list?
lusty grotto
the list of people dropping comments on the nerf
lyric summit
Well yeah, it's still rip
warm plinth
You’re a nerf
lyric summit
My prot TSG is suffering
lusty grotto
congratulations of making the list Astro!
supple path
You can't stop an unstoppable force. It's right there in the name. That's science.
sick sentinel
Nim u do know u have to have 2 lists right?
mystic whale
well no shit were commenting on it
lusty grotto
no i dont INR!
mystic whale
not everyone stays on mmochamp spamming f5
lusty grotto
mmochamp still exists?
supple path
It's the premier way to get your MMO news while pooping.
sand egret
very good poop material
sick sentinel
Theres a list for commenting and then there the 2nd list
lusty grotto
whats the 2nd list
oblique garnet
Nerf wont change the fact that we are the tankies by far when it comes to physical mitigstion which is 90% content
sand egret
shhhhh
sick sentinel
Oh u know exactly the kind of people who go on that 2nd list
supple path
that's the sort of talk that gets our physical mitigation nerfed.
lusty grotto
let the reroll purge begin please
sand egret
just let them not touch block
lusty grotto
blade, stop
sand egret
yet.
sick sentinel
I can hear them rolling back the block buff
supple path
"can no longer block wrenches, because fuck you."
oblique garnet
I cant wait to bust out my brm
sand egret
hek
oblique garnet
Yeah you right my vdh
sand egret
that soul cleave buff
leaving ravager's dps in the dust
i mean, I did enjoy the shocked pugs marveling in the fact that the "paper tank" warrior didn't fall over
mystic whale
but kidding aside. Is unstoppable force still top dog ?
sand egret
the CDR is why tbh
supple path
The other two talents are sort of bad.
oblique garnet
The math isnt done yet
sand egret
i bet DRoar makes a case now
supple path
I think UF would still beat them even with 0 damage, unless the snare is really useful on droar
willow fractal
can you spell reflect the frogs in king rasta on mythic?
oblique garnet
No you dodge them
sick sentinel
Why are giving correct advice
mystic whale
That why nightborne warrior is master race, that 3min cd snare my dudes
willow fractal
asking cause DK use ams to block one or 2 of them
sand egret
ams and spell reflect are not the same, they can often do similar things but how they do them is different
sick sentinel
Basically one is bitch mode and one is bitch shield
It's up to you when u wanna be a bitch
sick sentinel
U still a bitch
lusty grotto
the opposite isn't always true
this shit right here though
grats shred-master on your loot
sand egret
at least it wasn't a 425 Jes'...
lusty grotto
shit man a 425 jes sounds good
lusty grotto
oh shit son
supple path
My weekly cache thinks I'm Imelda Marcos or something. Every week another pair of shoes I don't need.
lusty grotto
i had an upgrade in my bags lmao i almost shredded a cloak
sick sentinel
Luckily it's only a month away
sand egret
haha yeah? yeah I actually stopped caring about that game back in the DrK expac
lusty grotto
im sweating guys
lusty grotto
but but crit haste 😢
sand egret
🐢
lusty grotto
ok i gotta practice what i preach
sand egret
yeah mofo
void meadow
can anyone tell me how much the new nerf impacts dmg, and could we pin that?
sand egret
eh, I wouldn't count that one
lusty grotto
ok 6.5
steel mauve
didnt the nerf literally just come out?
sand egret
certainly is new haha
void meadow
yeah i jsut assumed someone did quick maths
lusty grotto
oh shit i feel so fast
sand egret
well it was 10% overall or something prior
fallen rose
:(
lusty grotto
7.5
steel mauve
6% ST and about 9% aoe, so slightly more than that now
lucid bough
fallen rose
I thought the 50% nerf was a 10% drop in aoe so how is a 70% nerf only 9% overall
lusty grotto
lmao astra
steel mauve
fallen rose
Ah shit sorry
oblique garnet
Marok will do the quick maths later on today until that stay posted
devout fulcrum
Does anyone know if Fire Blood from Dark Iron Dwarf takes off Necrotic or Grievous stacks?
steel mauve
it does necrotic
indigo thorn
hmm, gemhide or IV? Is there one pref over the other for M+? Icy Veins says they are both S-tier
devout fulcrum
NE for Grievous then I guess
supple path
I prefer IV, though I think gemhide improves vs it at higher keys.
sick sentinel
Iv is the best, hands down
timber nest
hmm, 415 crit/vers ring + socket vs a 420 of the same ring... probly the socket right?
undone sun
Yeh
lusty grotto
yeah socket is great there
lusty grotto
not bad not bad
spice ferry
still depends on if you like bfa
lusty grotto
jettom turning into levko
umbral forge
Levko?
sick sentinel
whats the easiest +10 to run this week if you have a prot warrior alt and are below average dealing with necrotic
still aurora
Maw of Souls
outer dew
wtf, awkafina is in a fairly serious movie
lusty grotto
Wasn't she in crazy rich asians
sick sentinel
Heed my Call or Gutripper
lusty grotto
gutripper is better for ST dps
hmc is better for aoe dps
but the difference isn't that big
just pick one and go with it
none of them provide defensive value of course
willow scarab
Wait is this the new build
30% now?
Blizzard leave my class alone
I just saw
Wtf
undone sun
oof
gaunt shale
hi im new to prot is there anyone knowledgeable about weapons for it that i could chat with real quick
undone sun
ask away, plenty of knowledgeable people here
gaunt shale
so i have the 415 weapon from grong, 410 weapon from waycrest, and 400 socketed weapon from td. all have different benifits since the equip socket etc. idk which i should run in m+
devout fulcrum
415 😃
gaunt shale
so ilvl>socket>equip
devout fulcrum
personally yes. The stam and Str from weapon allow you to deal more damage while staying alive, then the fights are shorter 😄
crude summit
so i havent tanked sense the tail end of wotlk, i know tanking has changed some but is prot really hard to play now adays
gaunt shale
i was told that syringe with a socket is pretty good for dps in keys
could have been wrong though obv
lusty grotto
Just to be clear higher ilvl on weapons buffs just about every damage dealing ability you have, and you can't socket damage from a weapon
Block and stone for sure
gaunt shale
ok cool, thanks
lusty grotto
If you tanked during wotlk you will not have a lot of problems adjusting, we kept SB up back then, the only notable differences are ignore pain (and using it over shield block to smooth damage), the bolster talent which makes last stand into a skill you will use to keep block up after your charges are gone (and as a way to give you time to recharge them), and your cool downs refreshing way faster thanks to anger management. Try reading the icy veins guide to get some more info out of it @crude summit
It should be in the prot section of #268491842637660160
crude summit
guess the only part that kinda sucks is that the warrior dps spec really arent seen at higher m+ keys
outer dew
What happened to that insane fury warrior?
undone sun
huh
ionic fern
Me?
orchid sand
[Vial of Animated Blood] [Merektha's Fang]
shit
question is vial ilvl 400 or Merektha's Fang ilvl 410 w/socket?
plz?
oh
M+
TYVM in advance TYME
asking me about fury spec?
😃 GTFO. DONT die
really that simple:)
embarressment
gaunt shale
is the motherload trinket good for dps in keys?
or jes howler
idk what trinkets to look for other than underrot and atal
ionic fern
@orchid sand i'd still use Vial
wooden radish
@ionic fern is warrior dead? I’ll hang up and listen.
undone sun
🤦
ionic fern
@gaunt shale big red button is not good. You can also look for WM trinket - Gore's.
gaunt shale
i have that but i didn't know if jes would be better than stone
wooden radish
@ionic fern is dragon roar bis?
ionic fern
You can also sim yourself in regards to trinkets @gaunt shale in general for m+ content people tend to run any of these: Diamond(Opu),Gore's(WM),Rezans(AD),R.A.G.E(Mekka),Everchill - not so much but some still do(Jaina), Vial(UR).
I'm around 90% sure i forgot something but i just woke up so. 😂
Alchemy Stone is also up in there.
gaunt shale
ok thanks!
ionic fern
Jes's is medicore when it comes to trinkets.
wooden radish
@ionic fern hi
warm plinth
tfw when a rogue posts a video that says "Rouge PoV"
ionic fern
Hello Lincoln.
No, warrior is still not dead.
No, Dragon Roar is not BiS.
Unless they did some changes in the last 12h to the class that made Dragon Roar strong. 😄
wooden radish
They nerfed unstoppable force again
ionic fern
wooden radish
Dragon roar must be bis now. Kappa
ionic fern
No you...you're Bis @wooden radish ❤
ionic fern
Oh, from 50% to 30% with UF.
wooden radish
Dragon roar is the new leech. 100% bis
ionic fern
Remember to make a /yell DRAGON ROAAAR macro.
undone sun
ofc, i always have a /yell no u macro when i cast spell reflect
ionic fern
Nice. :D
i need that in my life.
outer dew
nah
was thinking of this guy
was thinking of a US guy
seems like he does maitenece keys
for his +10
i guess
ionic fern
Ah, never heard of him.
outer dew
heard from a friend that did keys with him
he'd out dps outlaws
¯_(ツ)_/¯
so I have one memorable guy that palys fury in my head
kinda surprised it was NA
ionic fern
Granted i know legit nothing about Fury warriors except for the fact that their AoE is capped at 5 targets...i don't see them out DPS'ing Outlaws with Reaping in play unless the tank always pulls small enough so that the Outlaw AoE doesn't matter.
outer dew
¯_(ツ)_/¯
that's just from word of mouth
I haven't seen details
but he must pump to justify bringing him in those range of keys
neon tangle
@ionic fern I would be pretty sad if I got beat by a fury warrior even on small pulls
Seriously tho, the #1 parse for fury on JFM is 36k
the #1 parse for prot is 31k
(and the #1 for outlaw rogue is 43k)
wise heart
Hey guys, is there a point where you can have too much haste and are better off gemming/enchanting forr a different stat? Asking mostly for m+. Not necessarily a haste cap but i have 3 haste procs from traits, plus the 15% haste talent
undone sun
nope
wise heart
I hear crit sims highest for us so im leaning towards crit
From what i gather, haste is the best all around stat but crit is the best dps stat in general
neon tangle
you can always sim for dps
wise heart
My sim says that 3x deafening 3x bastion is the best, do you think im sacrificing too much defense by doing this instead of bloodsport/IF?
neon tangle
@wise heart did you sim the generics as well?
wise heart
What do you mean by generics sadbox?
wise heart
I only have 1 good one (meticulous scheming) but i havent
neon tangle
what are your "bad" ones
wise heart
I dont recall, i can check now but i assume they were on the same row as bastion so i didnt bother, not on my wow pc atm
fierce juniper
The UF nerf is a 35% nerf to Thunder Clap damage inside of Avatar (up from 25% from the previous datamined nerf).
This works out to a ~8% or so nerf to overall DPS in Single Target situations, and about a ~15% nerf to overall DPS in "average" AoE situations.
No, Prot isn't dead. No, Dragon Roar is not better. Prot will still do a lot of damage in dungeons and we are by no means unviable or anything of the sort.
wise heart
I do have one treacherous which is bad for m+ i assume since the uptime is kinda low
fierce juniper
neon tangle
I dig it, but yeah, check it out, there's a pile of generics that both do more damage and also provide more defense than the 2nd or 3rd DC
warm plinth
Marok with dem mathz
neon tangle
I'd consider logging some m+ and seeing how often you actually dip below 50%
warm plinth
I think that's actually exactly the numbers that Late was saying earlier lol
wise heart
Fwiw i sim 6 bosses patchwerk 40 secs no lust, not sure if this is the best way
warm plinth
I'm not saying 40 seconds is too short but when I do a 60 second or less sim on my DH I get negative stat weights on two stats. Asked in raidbots discord and they said sims can get flukey with fights that short
wise heart
Ive heard that dungeon slice is very inaccurate based on the class discords of the specs i play though
neon tangle
it really depends on the class
e.g. it's fine for outlaw
most classes that have "simple" AoE work well with it
prot warrior has relatively simple AoE and you don't save avatar anyways
well, not very often 😛
wise heart
I see, thanks for the input! Will try out some sims as soon as i get home
neon tangle
@wise heart the only thing I'd keep an eye on is making sure you can at least get 3x SB -> LS, even the prot warriors going for crit for dmg still make sure to have enough base haste to make that happen
afaik it's around 20% before ITF
wise heart
I actually hadnt thought of that
Im sitting @ 12% now after gemming all crit according to my armory
But i have a buncha haste procs in my gear, so ill have to test it out in a run
undone sun
generally speaking of consistent haste when referring to it, procs are unreliable
wise heart
I guess 12% haste is really low
undone sun
could be better
wise heart
Definitely could 😄 thanks for the info lads
astral crystal
ionic fern
slap
warm plinth
That background though
wild rampart
Was there already a discussion about the new nerf to Unstoppable Force? now giving 30% bonus damage?
wild rampart
Oh, good ol Marok, yup, checked it, just wanted to make sure, cheers
quiet crane
#buffdevastateandshieldslam
Big ST plez
Wish devastate still carried sunder armour 😦
warm plinth
I don't. Any form of ArPen can go fuck itself imo lol
left turret
So with current nerf paladin can do more damage then warriors ?
quiet crane
No classic for you I take it lol
warm plinth
We'll be probably right with paladins on ST I would imagine
spice ferry
Imagine if he specified st
warm plinth
Nah I'm not gonna play classic. Not because I have anything against it. I just played back then and I don't miss any of it to the point where I want to experience it again.
quiet crane
Good pallies do BS ST dmg
Good pallies do BS ST dmg
Well it’s not even real vanilla either so don’t blame ya
I won’t go back to it
warm plinth
If my gf wants to try it, I might play a bit (she started in Legion). But I can't see me dedicating myself to it. I'm barely playing live as it is.
quiet crane
I don’t touch it at all
Game is so shit IMO compared to modern wow
Was good for it’s time but go way it completes with way it is now imo
No
Community is what I miss nothing more
empty locust
Has anyone spent time looking into Essences for 8.2 for prot? Looking for a basic summary or guide if any exists.
warm plinth
I do agree with the folks who miss the community feel, and I think that at the very least people will interact on a more personal level again (mostly because they don't have a choice). But I don't see a way that the atmosphere of the current game doesn't make it to classic.
We don't have anything along those lines yet.
quiet crane
^^
warm plinth
There are some articles on wowhead that go over the essences but the two I've found aren't updated so you'd have to scrounge around for the things that have changed since they were posted
empty locust
I've just been having a read through wowhead and trynig to wrap my head around each
warm plinth
It's almost guaranteed that Visions of Perfection will be our go-to major essence, even after the nerfs
sick sentinel
Big ups on Visions of Perfection
warm plinth
Idk but I really need to stop it
exotic spoke
I have to be up in 5 hours
warm plinth
I was dead at work yesterday and I'm gonna be dead at work again today
I have 7 at least lol
exotic spoke
Hit a new high score in necrotic today
sick sentinel
Also Riki, top parses are achievable through skillful play
warm plinth
What'd you get?
exotic spoke
Sansom, that was like 18 hours ago - yes high level parses are achievable through skillful play - I never said they weren’t
I said many top parses tend to be cheesed / fabricated / whatever you want to say.
74 stacks
warm plinth
Phew
sick sentinel
Not at all, most tank classes u can get rank 1 without doing anything special... just play. Pretty much prot warrior with boost is the only situation where stuff is "fabricated"
warm plinth
Oh, yeah.
ionic fern
Top parses so late into tier are 💯% cheesed.
exotic spoke
Sansom, it wasn’t talking about tank parses - but parses in general
Specifically using 1-3 healers instead of the normal 4 parses
ionic fern
You can get 99s without cheesing on most fights tho ...but 100s require some sort of team effort right now.
warm plinth
I think it's funny that one of the top parsers for prot literally named their toon Parsemonger
exotic spoke
Which increases the damage output -> reducing time of fight -> increasing numbers
Either way - it’s too late to have this debate again. Because this late - there are manipulations that are purely done for epeen.
There’s no reason not to and there’s nothing against it - but those top parses tend to be fabricated - was the word the other person used
sick sentinel
Lowkey, just play and youll do good. Probs reason we disagree is cuz your definition(s) of "cheesing" is diff from mine. 100s require team effort only with prot where boost exists
exotic spoke
You’re being overly specific.
The original conversation wasn’t about tanking anyway - it was healing - specifically taking mercy instead of devo
sick sentinel
Healing just take more dmg
exotic spoke
Which - would be an example of sub par play to cheese a parse
sick sentinel
Carelessness from ppl = better heal parses
exotic spoke
Again - you’re missing the point.
I don’t even know why you brought this up 18 hours and god knows how many messages after the conversation ended
sick sentinel
@warm plinth Parsemonger just plays, if ye looked at the logs there is nothing cheesed. Only boost did nice "cheesing" and pumps to some extent
I just saw it and wanted to comment
warm plinth
I never said he was cheesing. Just said I thought it was funny that someone had such an honest name
ionic fern
Again..99s dont require cheesing
exotic spoke
Then maybe you should honestly consider the topic that was being lead to that. Which again was the fact a sub optimal talent - mercy - can And is taken to boost HPS to improve parses when Devo isn’t needed.
That is cheesing / fabricating / whatever you want to call it in my mind
sick sentinel
sub optimal talent?
warm plinth
I'm going to bed. You should too Riki; you're gonna be even more miserable than I am lol.
exotic spoke
You’re eeking out every last bit of measurable metric to get the minor advantage
Agree mwahi
Sansnom - Yes - mercy is a suboptimal spell / talent / whatever paladins have
willow scarab
Does anyone discussing the acquisition of 99s here regularly get 99s?
exotic spoke
I’ve gotten a couple. Regularly no. I had a 100o once and I guarantee it was cheese
sick sentinel
Whats your toon
willow scarab
You can get a 99 without doing anything special, a 99 is just good play
a 100 is cheese + good play
sick sentinel
100 is good play for all classes except prot war
ionic fern
Zzzzz
sick sentinel
Like I looked at top BDK logs, they don't even stack adds on grong
willow scarab
Warrior most competitive
exotic spoke
Take a guess lol. The 100 was a healing parse in antorus where I solo tanked the hounds
willow scarab
I'm not against healing parses for versatility but they're more boring
and not as competitive
willow scarab
He's like 80% of this discord that doesn't play / doens't play prot
exotic spoke
The peace. Not wasting my time with you when I have 5 hours before I get up to work
willow scarab
Welcome home
exotic spoke
No
sick sentinel
combined with last nerf
sick sentinel
That nerf to the TC dmg increase isn't as huge to our overall dmg on ST but more on AOE
ebon hound
70% reduction on half the talent* the cdr part is still huge
sick sentinel
Its noticeable change tho for sure
exotic spoke
Last o saw numbers weren’t theorycrafted yet Talent goes 30%. I’d guess about a 15% aoe overall damage. 8-9 single target based on maroks previous
sick sentinel
Quote marok for that
ionic fern
It's noticable jeah but it won't break the class. Also remember that it's still up for tuning.
ionic fern
Anything is up for tuning until it makes it live.
sick sentinel
I bet you a month of sub
exotic spoke
Yeah. The 50% had it at ~6 for single and 11% for non stupid aoe. Pre essences
sick sentinel
Yeah we have the rest of our kit literally un touched, just that aspect was nerfed
its not gonna get reverted
exotic spoke
It probably shouldn’t be reverted.
willow scarab
The change from 50 to 30 was overkill
sick sentinel
I hope it does get reverted
ionic fern
I don't mind if they revert it or not. But everything is up for tuning. And tuning can go both ways.
willow scarab
50 fine because we are strong no denying
But 70? Swing that nerf bat too hard and everyone re rolls
exotic spoke
Because essence of perfection, pearlescent (rage refund), and I think sphere is what late and I were talking about earlier
I’m betting they are planning on us having stupidly high Avatar up time
sick sentinel
We now will probs be like 1-2k dps behind pally on ST (atm we are pretty neck and neck)
We'll def have higher uptime with visions, but the avatar is less potent
The higher uptime wont compensate for 70% nerf
bold marten
Will we still be top dps tank?
willow scarab
We aren’t
jagged narwhal
The problem how I see it is the initial threat gain
sick sentinel
Nah
jagged narwhal
Not so much the DPS difference
sick sentinel
No problem with that
willow scarab
Threat gain as an issue?
exotic spoke
I don’t think that’s an issue Richard
willow scarab
In 2019?
willow scarab
Threat gain an issue the last decade?
sick sentinel
try playing non-warrior tanks
ionic fern
Threat gain won't be a issue.
sick sentinel
before you talk about aggro
sick sentinel
Monk hot tub is powerful af
willow scarab
And only in keys
jagged narwhal
I've done some runs with Guildies who are SUPER DPS horny and will start precasting heavy hitting spells before I reach the mob, and never the one i Initially target
exotic spoke
Aggro is an issue if you start with avatar or demo because you’re putting yourself behind
willow scarab
That doesn’t sound like a threat problem
jagged narwhal
meaning it's 1 Thunderclap damage of Threat Vs their Chaos Bolt.
It's just annoying
willow scarab
That sounds like a player problem
exotic spoke
Oh - then that’s an idiot problem
sick sentinel
Aggro in raid is fine on all classes as long as you pump, if you parse gray and tank with a guy doing 99s... youll have problems
jagged narwhal
Which is fine when one DPS does it. When all three DPS do it on different targets? I only have 2 taunts, then they scream at "Bad tank"
sick sentinel
Just pump
exotic spoke
Then don’t play with them because they are idiots
willow scarab
You’re playing with bad players and aren’t super talented yourself (no offence intended)
sick sentinel
Our burst is still high, like we'll get the aggro
jagged narwhal
I recognize it's an idiot problem. But it'll get worse with this nerf
willow scarab
It’s really a non issues
sick sentinel
Our dps is enough to hold aggro without using avatar
willow scarab
Even with nerf the threat won’t be an issue
Charge shield slam heroic leap clap taunt you have all 3 on you
Even on a giga chaos bolt
That’s just one example
It’s really a non issue and won’t be an issue
sick sentinel
Yeah def
jagged narwhal
It's more of an "Annoying to deal with" issue than a "Serious problem" issue
willow scarab
I actually like when people pull more mobs
You can just wait till they’re close and clap them all
Shockwave if your clap hit for 300 damage and then clap again
exotic spoke
@ionic fern do you know if any simming has been done with essences yet?
I had a thought and was just curious
willow scarab
Warrior hasn’t had a threat issue ever
exotic spoke
I mean... fury warriors did. When they’d pass the tank in threat in vanilla
willow scarab
We have a threat issue of ripping off other tanks
exotic spoke
You’re playing with bad tanks then
sick sentinel
Threat ripping happens when u pump and the co tank doesnt
jagged narwhal
I usually do Charge, Shockwave, Thunderclap, Demo, Avatar, Thunderclap, continue normal rotation. And 9/10 times that's plenty. But when we have some DPS that just really fucking burst hard, I'll then have to go chase the one mob that peels off.
willow scarab
I rip off monks and bdk in raid
exotic spoke
Don’t shockwave
willow scarab
Even ones with orange parses
exotic spoke
Your opening is messed up
sick sentinel
He shockwaves probs to keep them in place but that's a waste
exotic spoke
Thunderclap, avatar, thunder clap, demo, thunder clap
jagged narwhal
Yeah
willow scarab
I really don’t understand having issues even with good dps
sick sentinel
They wont move if u hit them right away
exotic spoke
Don’t do avatar and demo back to back
jagged narwhal
I Shockwave 'cause too many times the mobs will start moving away insta because they get burst with something heavy and it's more threat than one Thunderclap
willow scarab
what's your ilvl
sick sentinel
Just hit them, they wont move if u grab aggro first
willow scarab
and can i get your name to go look at your logs
undone sun
That's why avatar is early
sick sentinel
They move if your mates pull early
exotic spoke
Thunderclap instead
jagged narwhal
so Shockwave is a bit more threat and keeps them within Thunderclap range to get a second one out
exotic spoke
Nope
undone sun
Lower CD on TC
sick sentinel
U can cast avatar mid charge
ionic fern
@exotic spoke i'm gonna look into it this weekend.
sick sentinel
and should have GCD be fine so u clap right when u get there. but u shouldn't need to do that
exotic spoke
Charge / avatar -> thunder clap -> demo -> thunderclap