Around 100 I think? I wasn’t in fir it
#protection
willow scarab
shut summit
156 cabal / 217 uunat for us
inland mesa
we're at 44 and have made it past doubt 2 like 3 times with everyone alive
shut summit
yea only reason cabal took us so many cuz ranged interrupts / personal dispels were 😬
timber nest
hmmmmmmm, sims have the jaina ring being worse 😦
inland mesa
we don't have classes to stack that can help with dispels, and a single mass dispel so usually our disc priest is dying to his MD lol
junior ivy
ty
lusty grotto
poggers was only a 16 though
and also got top left 😛
also rip the 400 butcher block i got in it 😦
signal plover
woo mythic Jaina ded
signal plover
thank
lusty grotto
GZ paw!
junior ivy
is jaina last boss
undone sun
of BoD, yeah
junior ivy
nice
warm plinth
Grats Paw
shut summit
👏
shut summit
mayb in s3
warm plinth
RIP
shut summit
wish there was reason to do it aside from stupidass io score
warm plinth
Yeah I hear ya. Look forward to hopefully seeing some in S3
junior ivy
is thereany new dungeons
shut summit
ye mechagon is amazing
spice ferry
its not gunna be m+ tho is it?
shut summit
it'll get split like kara did
oblique garnet
Oh nice maybe some variety finally
Or its gonna be overtuned piece of shit like KR
honest frigate
More likely a ML if done poorly or a FH if done properly
lusty grotto
i feel like
ML is certainly terrible in tyrannical but
it seems like most of my scuffed ML keys are fucked up on the corpse runs
oblique garnet
Ml is worse on fortified
lusty grotto
yeah i guess ill see when i hit 20s
but i think i get what you're saying
especially on fort teeming i guess
you need peace keepers for %
and they last forever with fort
and a missed nuke afte 1st boss that's not reflected is gg as well as the little fucking worms
oblique garnet
Teeming fort combo feels really bad
Every dungeon feels like it lasts eternity
Even when everyone is blasting 35k+ overall
lusty grotto
yeah yeah i get what you're saying
potent anvil
I just do R&D trash now, so I don't have to scuff any death skips 
oblique garnet
Tyrannical teeming is ok
lusty grotto
yeah i suppose i should try doing that deswind
potent anvil
its super easy
oblique garnet
I used to do that alot
potent anvil
force cannon needs to be stunned/CC'd, and kick blow torch. caustic compound can go off and that just gets dispelled. spell reflect energy lash
ez
lusty grotto
yeah
oblique garnet
Pretty much
lusty grotto
we'll see
i need MLs to be sure
lowest key
really want a couple this week
just to see
oblique garnet
I used to do that alot and thought it was faster than getting the % before etc
potent anvil
It's pretty much the same, you can do the taskmaster with 2nd boss once you kill 2nd boss adds.
lusty grotto
got a 18 KR though, im gonna need to wear adult diapers for shitting myself constantly
potent anvil
I timed like 21-22s last week just doing R&D
potent anvil
yeah
you just kite the boss away from cover. its like 8 yards or something I forget
oblique garnet
I dont much care for pushing this week
potent anvil
middle/right side
lusty grotto
gotcha
oblique garnet
Have you seen those giga rats btw
lusty grotto
yeah mastermind rats
oblique garnet
That comes from the small things
lusty grotto
other pack maybe patrol mastermind
then last pack or skip that?
ill play with mdt and check
potent anvil
I killed the last pack cuz you can spell reflect both lashes.
potent anvil
It's not too bad, but you can skip if you ahve lust up
oblique garnet
We once had one of the small rats bug out where it ran away so we didnt kill it because it was los and then it tpd on us when it was massive and killed us xD
lusty grotto
and usually after the first lash they desync
lmao
wdym like with fort or something?
err fuck
oblique garnet
The rats
lusty grotto
bolstering
lusty grotto
i honestly didnt know that
oblique garnet
Yeah neither did i until that
oblique garnet
99% of the players probably dont know that
Also it was Trevor who was the depleter of keys
lusty grotto
ah yes
wait
that was trevor?
i thought trevor was the one in FH that got infested or something
lmao
lusty grotto
oh lmao
sorry
timmy is trevor's brother
timmy the rat from ML
😉
its his new name
potent anvil
I did a 21 ML with AutomaticJak last week, if you wanted to see what I pulled. Could link the vod, but it's pretty simple to figure out the route I think.
lusty grotto
sure i can check it out if you link
potent anvil
potent anvil
I didnt stream it, but Jak was streaming
lusty grotto
ah
oblique garnet
Deswind never streams🙄
potent anvil
I sometimes stream
oblique garnet
thats my thing you should be more consisten than me!
potent anvil
I'm working on my prot pala. Gonna be huge soon
oblique garnet
Im just working on not getting bored before the next patch comes out
Do we have any ETA on 8.2?
warm plinth
Just speculation: probably late June/early July
oblique garnet
😪
I hope we start crucible progress soon then
Otherwise i will get so bored i end up quitting
willow scarab
I changed guilds because they weren’t progging crucible so I feel you
Using downtime to prepare alts and 3x paragon caches seems like the play for me
Good time to push arena rating and get achievements if you care for them
oblique garnet
I honestly dont feel like 3x paragon chest will be worth it considering you dont get the extra slot till 60
willow scarab
It’s all Ilvl and stats, I like being a sweaty nerd and minmaxing too
oblique garnet
Also about pvp the meta is so boring rn
willow scarab
Boring but feats of strength are nice
oblique garnet
If you dont have the tank trinkets you do fuckall
And like on dh you actually want harbringer
willow scarab
I’ll hopefully finish crucible by late June and have a few weeks maybe a month or two to push rating
Cos items will either be nerfed by then or I’ll have them at 425, I already have diamond
willow scarab
It’s a weird feeling for me
Because warrior pvp is fucking shit
But it’s my main and I want the achievements / mounts on it eventually from glad
I’ve been nearly glad on rogue and hunter almost a decade ago but warrior never broke 2k
oblique garnet
I grinded to glad in cata on my warlock
willow scarab
What a good time to do it
oblique garnet
And then had some fun during mop prepatch where i was just oneshotting people
willow scarab
That’s when I was almost glad on hunter
2 set and raid trinket
Raid bow had a proc for damage too I think
oblique garnet
Then when mop prepatch hit they changed chaos bolt to scale with crit
And it hit players for like 80-90k
So you cast one and then finished them off with shadow burn
willow scarab
Balanced prepatch as usual
willow scarab
My rogue almost gladiator days were mid/late wotlk and early cata when they released smoke bomb
oblique garnet
Yeah people didnt know how to play around it
willow scarab
I just want my first ever gladiator mount so bad like just give me one
Fuck
Definitely thought about buying a carry/coaching deal for gold
oblique garnet
Those are still the only boosts that actually cost alot
Even fh leveling boost is like 10k/lvl now
willow scarab
It’s in the upper sides of gold cap
Insane price
Like fair price but insane price
Would he 4m for glad and 5m for the mount afterwards to buy from the discord I sell keys in
oblique garnet
O.o
willow scarab
that’s starting at 1800 as well
Which is my cr
Wish I could just trade a Jaina carry for it
oblique garnet
Jaina after the nerfs is just sad
willow scarab
Yeah the fight is a joke
We literally just roll through p1 and do no mechanics properly
Boss at 36% by second avalanche
CE is a donation now
warm plinth
You can donate it to me if you want
oblique garnet
But who are still progressing it might still be difficult
warm plinth
I think it'd be funny for my literal only raid progression to be 1/9 M BoD and have the 1 be Jaina.
Though I guess it'd be obvious it was a carry. Never mind.
😂
lusty grotto
🤝 late gladiators ftw
oblique garnet
Believe it or not i used to be good at the game now im just washed up😪
willow scarab
I mean I killed Jaina before mekka so maybe you’re able exaggerated version of me @warm plinth
Early gladiator is for good players
warm plinth
Like...a REALLY exaggerated version 😂
spice ferry
imagine caring about pvp in bfa
warm plinth
What's PvP?
oblique garnet
Like the players can be absolute potatoes but they will win because of the pve gear
Pvp is what used to be fun
warm plinth
Eh
willow scarab
Let people like what they wanna like @spice ferry
spice ferry
is joke
oblique garnet
In cata pve gear wasnt that big of an issue
oblique garnet
Because you still needed pvp gear due to pvp resilience
willow scarab
Dragonwrath and dragon soul trinket
Ywah sick double warlock dots
Because of one item
willow scarab
They defined the meta
oblique garnet
But they also needed to be grinded
willow scarab
The entire of cata after forelands was dot cleaves
oblique garnet
Now just anyone can get those so easily
dusky mica
The insane thing with pvp to me is that maledict is required YET we have classes on the sidelines with absorb/MS abilities.
get rid of this shit
let arms be arms
pump these fools
lusty grotto
I agree
lusty grotto
Hmm
autumn pendant
Just 
mortal scaffold
Hey guys can someone please point me in the right direction. Im getting destroyed in Mythic Plus this week, I have been told to prioritize vers over haste but im getting mixed messages as to what stat is best. My ilevel is only 398. Im thinking my azerite traits are pretty trash at the moment.
undone sun
secondaries are pretty close and wont make a huge difference for life and death
mortal scaffold
I tanked 5/9 Heroic BOD with my guild but my parse was so low, im not sure what im doing wrong
sick sentinel
I think it's so funny when somebody gives advice when they have absolutely 0 clue
Okay let's get this straight
Parses are about damage
So they don't say anything about surv
mortal scaffold
sick sentinel
Like thyme said, all our stats are fairly close to each other
I have written an extensive thing to help new players with gearing
Because I got tired of typing the same thing all the time
So I will pm you that
fickle urchin
if faced with same ilvl stuff, the meta is to eschew mastery since most people run a lot of BoM
mortal scaffold
Sorry to ask the same question mate
mortal scaffold
thanks so much for your advice
sick sentinel
Also
mortal scaffold
was told to come in here instead of asking in forums
sick sentinel
That was a good advice
Lastly
If you are dying, it should probably be more of a skill/player issue more than a gear issue
That being said, with low shield ilvl you get trucked this week
mortal scaffold
ok thanks! 😃
ebon lagoon
Does Resounding Protection stack?
sick sentinel
yes
ebon lagoon
TY
sick sentinel
the absorb amount
ebon lagoon
Now the only problem is I lost my only Bastion of Might for a 45 ilvl upgrade...
sick sentinel
10% attack power for 20 seconds for 45 ilvl doesn't sim half bad
you don't drop ilvl for azerite powers
ebon lagoon
Sure, but I'm gonna miss the free Ignore Pain.
ebon lagoon
I dunno, guild's not really into raiding...How's the PuG scene looking these days?
ebon lagoon
Alright.
ebon lagoon
Honestly my tanking isn't what's holding me back.
The fact that I get hit with insane load-in times and lagspikes at the start of a run does.
ionic fern
Time to format.
sick sentinel
Whats up warriors. Fresh noob prot warrior here. Is this spec worth investing in for end game? Is the damage spec good for pvp?
It's the best end game spec on warrior
autumn pendant
Its pretty funny in pvp 🤷
gentle sequoia
Yeah, dragon charge and mass spell reflect are fun in BGs
sick sentinel
Wanna do some pvp but unsure can i pvp at low level?
sick sentinel
Idk. Just have some fun. Trying to level my warrior from 1-120 never done it fully
ebon lagoon
Intercept+Safeguard+Bodyguard, make your fellow PvP teammates unkillable
sick sentinel
Is there a macro set somewhere for prot warriors? Never messed with macros
magic mesa
I think the prot warrior guides on icy-veins and wowhead both cover up some basic macros, though they're most likely to be tailored for PvE rather than PvP
E. g. Mouseover taunt
sick sentinel
you don't really need any macros
the only one I is interrupt on mouseover
or on target if I am not mousing over anyone
magic mesa
Heroic Leap macro to skip the clicking is also quite useful
jagged bay
hello i hope you have an awesome weekend everyone 😃
astral crystal
i have burned myself with mouseover interrupt too many times
sick sentinel
@jagged bay thanks, you too!
jagged bay
thanks 😃
lusty grotto
You too twinrova!
crystal dirge
do you guys use anything before the keystone starts? Like DHs do meta?
sick sentinel
not really
mortal brook
no 3 minute+ cds that last longer than the countdown
anything under 3 minutes doesn't reset on start
so basically just incarn/meta/ascendence(?)
sick sentinel
icyveins with the trait makes you start with a fingers of frost proc
innervate for fun
ionic fern
Rogues also do some reroll schenanigans..e.g take that talent that gives them guaranteed 2 rolls and then swap back to the regular one before the key..this way they always have 2 rolls at the start
sick sentinel
my rogues prefer getting 5 alacrity stacks
and a roll
by using a turnip
btw you can place a turnip at the ToS entrance, inside the dungeon
lusty grotto
Ya also in underrot
But remember you can't put key in if someone in group is in combat
☑
shroud also works :p
can double shroud ToS entrance that way
versed widget
guys would you use
420 jes howler + 395 butchers block
or
420 jes + 400 vial (both on use)
versed widget
i am under the impression that 420 jes > vial
sick sentinel
and vial is VASTLY overrated
versed widget
it's 16.x% extra damage flat and 8% mitigation for 12 seconds
sick sentinel
Hi all! ive recently been having some trouble with my threat generation and squishyness could someone maybe take a look at my stats and give me some tips? ive played a warrior for quite a while but this expac i am having more troubles with tanking and i cant quite pinpoint were im going wrong! i think i have the rotation down (all be it with a few mistakes made in the heat of the moment lol) but aside from that and working on my stats im not sure whatelse i can do to help me! DMs for help appreciated ❤
@sick sentinel your stats are not the problem
all the stats are roughly equal for prot warrior
so you should just equip your highest ilvl
so it's probably your play
and not your gear
willow scarab
I second exactly what Kaege has said
Threat means clap more and use avatar on cd
double check your build and knowledge against icyveins guide too
sick sentinel
i see! and how can i help my healers with my squishy? cuz ive followed my talent build/stat prios from icy and aside from having low versi for what i need when i ask the healers they say i am still kinda squishy
you help your healers by taking less damage
by mitigating
versed widget
i think a lot of that comes with experience right? making sure you have block uptime and IP when you need
sick sentinel
through shieldblock, spell reflect and ignore pain
versed widget
knowing which packs gonna fuck you up helped my tanking a lot (i came from healer so kinda familiar with dmg patterns)
sick sentinel
i am keeping my ignore pain up as often as i can without double stacking full buffs and rotating my shield block with ignore pain and spell reflect on CD with casters in group
willow scarab
Shield block is more important than ignore pain by far for melee content
You want to use it intelligently too, not just as soon as you can
versed widget
^ the amount of times i still shield block and then like oversear korgus casts deadeye
willow scarab
If you pay attention to boss timers you know when you won't need to blow the charge
versed widget
im dumb dumb
willow scarab
For me it's when i'm bursting rotation on a boss and then the off tank taunts
and i keep using blocks for damage because i tunneled
sick sentinel
so just focus a little more on my rotation for timers and mob abilities and such?
willow scarab
then i get boss back with no blocks
yeah knowing timers is very important
warrior is proactive play
sick sentinel
right ok and that will help with my squishyness? (for M+ i mean i havnt had the guts to take my warrior into raids yet lul)
potent anvil
In general, if shield block is about to be available its almost always better to pool rage and take a few unmitigated hits during trash just to shield block as soon as its available than to IP out of panic and now have to spend 2-3 GCDs to shield block (therefore taking even more unmitigated hits).
willow scarab
Heroic raids won't hurt as hard as a +10 key
sick sentinel
i see so its just picking when to use my reductions on bosses to reduce the amount of times i take unmitigated hits
willow scarab
Squishiness is fixed almost exclusively by play - proper defensives and active mitigation uptime
opulence and uunat trinket help but not the be all end all
azerite traits help too but same thing, it's mostly play
potent anvil
IP is seconday to Shield Block in all scenarios of blockable damage. Prio SB first.
tulip panther
so, avatar, clappery clap, request massive heals 🤔 gotcha
sand egret
I wouldn't be so verbose about it, but yeah
tulip panther
fixing an ui helped ALOT
sand egret
😠 + 👢 🍵 👏 for short
sick sentinel
yeah i got an IP tracker and WA to keep an eye on my SB stacks and durations and thats helped alot so i dont overlap them as often when i first started
tulip panther
and talents, i rolled with deva and indominable 🤣
and talents, i rolled with deva and indominable 🤣
sick sentinel
my talents are currently 1-2-2-3-3-1-1
I would use crackling over bounding
ive only just switched to bounding...crackling was getting me into trouble lol
exotic spoke
Safeguard is also good for raids and very high keys - depending on your comp
As an option
random niche
Stat question: Is there a point when I should stop making Haste my priority? Im at almost 1700 haste
*1600
warm plinth
No, not really. The GCD stops going down when you hit 100% but that's not an amount you'll hit.
That being said, when you say haste is your priority, I'm assuming you mean after ilevel?
random niche
In conjuction
sand egret
it's important to note that Haste's importance in our kit runs deep
so you're always going to get value out of it, even if you are getting no more GCD gains
random niche
thats what i thought but i wanted all of your opinions
exotic spoke
Ghash is correct. You should prioritize Ilvl first and assuming equal Ilvl haste.
Depending on the content you’re doing to your second stat will change.
lusty grotto
what do you mean in conjunction
random niche
im 413 ilvl equipped
exotic spoke
There may come a time where you decide it is no longer worth it for you to get haste over other stats. But that will come with experience
random niche
im kind of at that point
sand egret
it's a good stat. but more stats is better
exotic spoke
^^
lusty grotto
yeah i guess at that point you won't worry so much about ilvl unless you get lucky with TF/WFs
random niche
I widdled it back down to 20% haste to take more Vers
exotic spoke
Raids or m+
random niche
@lusty grotto exactly
lusty grotto
vers 🤢
lusty grotto
works for raids i guess :p
sand egret
I will never stop hating that stat
random niche
@exotic spoke Mythics
exotic spoke
Vers is good for raids. But I’d take crit for m+
lusty grotto
critt
sand egret
Critttttt
warm plinth
Crit is way better than vers for m+
exotic spoke
More crit more dps
exotic spoke
Don’t sacrifice Ilvl
random niche
to change it around a bit, I wont
exotic spoke
In general I mean. You should damn near always use your highest Ilvl
sand egret
yeah, but real talk in M+ an overwhelmingly majority of your damage taken is auto-attacks so that's why Crit is beastly in M+
versus Raids where you'd favor that boring ass busta stat, Vers, since it's more consistent reduction
lusty grotto
well i mean
exotic spoke
I miss ARP
sand egret
armor pen is a grand case of a very badly good stat
lusty grotto
bring back sunder though 😃
exotic spoke
I’m a seal... arp arp arp
exotic spoke
5% wipe on mekka last night. So close
exotic spoke
And dreadnaught shoulders for only 150k.... it was a pretty good night
sand egret
jelly
lusty grotto
5% cool
sand egret
t3 for war is the tits
primal crypt
50%party ❤
exotic spoke
And there’s another pair of shoulders on my server today..... bet you could transfer or buy gold there and get them
sand egret
although t3 for rogue is 👌
exotic spoke
For 100k-150k again cause we’re a cheap ass dead server
oblique garnet
Yamo go to work
sand egret
i'm still trying to afford a 2nd enchant on my weapon
primal crypt
I am at work lol
exotic spoke
Lol
lusty grotto
50%party yamo
primal crypt
@lusty grotto hit me with the solid Ping!
sand egret
he's on discord....that's what you do at work
lusty grotto
ahem like me 😃
primal crypt
This new job got me losing my mind
exotic spoke
I mean - I’m at work lol
primal crypt
Old job was easy - 2 hrs of work a day
lusty grotto
blade jokes
lusty grotto
yikes
primal crypt
Yeah, looking for something new now
lusty grotto
yeah that sounds rough, hopefully pay is good
sand egret
I had to crunch on my last project for the first time in like a year, fuuuuck that shit
lusty grotto
i have to crunch today cause im due a module but i can't finish it without user/client responding to my questions
fml, its friday 😦
sand egret
RIP
exotic spoke
Supply chain planner here. It’s our slow time of the year but in a few months I get really busy and about 3 months after that my company gets stupid busy.
Not uncommon for the people working in the vault picking orders to work 55+ hour weeks as we get to October / November
lusty grotto
nice nice ghash
warm plinth
What does crunch mean?
lusty grotto
lol
sand egret
if by user/client you mean bartender
warm plinth
In this context
lusty grotto
yes yes of course
sand egret
and questions you mean "i want this beer"
primal crypt
I have to work tomorrow 8-630pm
lusty grotto
in my dreams
exotic spoke
Rofl blade.
lusty grotto
oof
sand egret
@warm plinth crunch is a term for overtime at the end of project cycles in software dev
exotic spoke
God I need to finish my IS degree and get into the field I want
warm plinth
Oh okay
sand egret
infamous in game dev
warm plinth
I’m in the supply chain as well Riki.
warm plinth
Toxic
exotic spoke
@sand egret you right. We went live with a new system last May. Everyone helped. 70 hour weeks for two months. I loved my paychecks but I was too exhausted to use them
lusty grotto
(O:
sand egret
oof, yeahh at least your paychecks inflate with your crunch
lusty grotto
mine doesnt
exotic spoke
I’m no longer salary thank god.
lusty grotto
im salaried :\
sand egret
normally "crunch" means you don't get paid for it
lusty grotto
wewewewewewew
exotic spoke
When we did that. I was when I managed our vault but stepped down to finish my degree
sand egret
woooo
warm plinth
I’m glad I don’t have to work overtime anymore. Salaries + OT is shiiiiit
Salaried *
lusty grotto
honestly would love overtime, i do so much of it, i'd be scrooge mcduck for sure
sand egret
just hope you mofos really enjoyed flying those fucking planes
cuz that cost me a week of my life
warm plinth
I loved overtime when I was hourly. I love it far less when I’m not getting paid for it.
lusty grotto
oh yeah def being paid for it
sand egret
yeah...not so much here
sand egret
😬
warm plinth
I’m actually wondering now if Riki and I work at a similar place XD
sand egret
he's your coworker
sand egret
imagine looking over and it's just Skyhold open on this other comp
exotic spoke
So do we work at similar places ghash
sand egret
love yelling at my producer for face-pulling the Shadow of Zul
warm plinth
Not my coworker confirmed
exotic spoke
Ahh I see
sand egret
Ghash: turns to his left "HEY RIKI"
silence
warm plinth
Hahaha
exotic spoke
Can confirm. Not coworkers
warm plinth
Speaking of people at work playing WoW. I onboard/train all the new associates for my warehouse. While training last night I realized I was judging the new hires based on perceived wow qualities. Like they all had really poor situational awareness and I remember thinking man I would hate playing WoW with these guys
Is that weird?
lusty grotto
no
astral crystal
yes
lusty grotto
i mean you shouldn't do it
astral crystal
weirdo
exotic spoke
Yeah. But some things like that are very important work skills.
Like I know someone from vanilla wow who was a raid lead / officer of the guild who cleared naxx. He showed us his resume and he had things on it like “strong at uniting a group of people towards a shared goal” and “adapting and overcoming obstacles”
lusty grotto
but you can definitely pick up on things that might make it seem they can handle the job
warm plinth
I mean I wasn't judging them outwardly. Just in my head 😂
lusty grotto
leadership skills can be tough to incorporate though
into assessing a candidate i mean
like they can say "hey i led x group in a video game", so you can pick up on the he stepped up to the plate thing
but did he do it well?
warm plinth
I'm actually not sure I would agree with putting that on a resume (the first thing) as a raid leader. Technically you're not uniting them toward the common goal. You all showed up for the specific reason of killing raid bosses; the game did the uniting for you wouldn't you think? (totally just overanalyzing this now)
sick sentinel
@warm plinth have you progressed 300+ pull bosses?
lusty grotto
i value leadership roles that take maximum advantage of their underling's capabilities while putting them in places where they will use those, for example... that's just maybe going too deep into it but that's just me
yeah agreed ghash, was just an example
warm plinth
No, nor am I devaluing the leadership required to do so. I just don't feel like uniting is the right word.
lusty grotto
like ive seen too many chiefs ruin a company
and administrative roles that put people on not suitable places just to fire them after
that just screams bad leadership
to me at least
warm plinth
Do you work at my company? How do you know so much?
lusty grotto
i applied that to wow when i raid lead, i put people in places i know they would work well in and play around our strengths and weaknesses
heh it happens in just about every company tbh
sick sentinel
after a certain amount of pulls
people get demoralized
and they don't wanna do it anymore
warm plinth
Don't read too much into it. I'm literally just nitpicking over word choice more than anything.
lusty grotto
they keep it fun
warm plinth
I don't know if people would like my style of clowning in a serious raid environment lolol
lusty grotto
its also okay to know how to perceive that drop in morale and knowing when to take a break
warm plinth
I used to do shit like run kara pugs back in BC, pull the entire ethereal room before chess/netherspite, then leap off the balcony down to curator's area and die (as the tank)
lusty grotto
because if your members aren't as driven, that might fuck you over in the long run
lmao that's def not the type of clowning i meant
warm plinth
This is really what I'm getting at ^
lusty grotto
nod nod
warm plinth
If they don't have orange parses, is it really worth adding them to the team?
sand egret
and by that I mean you must be sub 80
warm plinth
Wait what
sand egret
don't want no padders around here, more work for me
warm plinth
😂
warm plinth
It's really messing with me that I get up before reset on this new shift
lusty grotto
i find it easier to teach a person how to orange a parse than to straight up not mess up
so i value just showing up and not fucking up more
sand egret
but real talk. WoW raiding is actually a reason I have my job
lusty grotto
i know you guys were joking but yeah
warm plinth
We legit have the worst leadership in history in my building on night shift. It's trash.
I need more WoW peeps in positions of power
sand egret
doing Naxx is one hell of a resume point in some circles 😃
lusty grotto
lol ghash don't generalize either
sand egret
obvi
hollow root
I know prot is about highest ilvl possible but do the rings count as that? I jib myself out of so much haste if I use my highest ilvl rings
lusty grotto
plenty of wow peeps can be absolutely horrible at jobs
warm plinth
I'm not. Just being facetious
sand egret
it's more stats
warm plinth
Yeah I drop 5 ilevels on rings if the higher one is no haste and the lower one has haste.
hollow root
dropping 5 ilvls still seems a bit too little
314 haste from a 400 ring compared to a 415 ring with no haste
sand egret
you're ignoring the other stats on that ring.
that logic implies that you aren't valuing other stats at all
which isn't correct
hollow root
340 verse and 145 crit is worth more?
sand egret
haste is great, to a point
lusty grotto
don't overvalue haste
haste is the better stat, but it doesn't mean the others are bad
certainly not worth dropping 15 ilvls for
once ilvls become closer you can make a bit more adjustments to your desired secondaries
on rings
hollow root
so it's better to lose 5% haste for 4% vers, literally 0.01% crit and 2k health points?
that's pretty ♿
warm plinth
How is it literally .01% crit? 🤔 145 crit is a little over 2% crit
vocal skiff
maybe the other ring has crit
hollow root
400 ring has 144 crit already, 415 ring has 145 crit
warm plinth
Gotcha
lusty grotto
yes 4% vers is 4% more dmg and 2% less damage taken
combined with the 2k hp
and the small amount of crit gained
lusty grotto
these things in conjunction are worth more than the haste gained if you drop ilvl
warm plinth
lusty grotto
lol
so we can go a bit into it if you want
Haste improves your defensiveness due to the fact that it lowers cds on some of your defensive abilities - the most important being shield block. Haste also improves your dps by lowering cds, gcds and increasing the tick rate of deep wounds, for example. All of these are a bi-product of haste, whereas you have a flat 4% increase in damage offensively and a 2% increase defensively. We would have to see both cases separately depending on what you want to focus on.
if you want to see the defensive part you can run Marok's spreadsheet on stats
if you want to see the offensive part of it, you can sim, or I will have to break out the napkin math
sick sentinel
Who gives a fuck about stats that aren't leech tho
ionic fern
@sick sentinel 
sand egret
Part of me wants to just see that random patch note get slid in for the 11th hour like "Ravager's damage increased by 1000%."
sick sentinel
Ravager somehow still does less damage then Devastor
warm plinth
What do you think this is Blade, Diablo?
sick sentinel
That fruit is hanging reaaaaaal low man
modern brook
Ravager ×10 might be worth its global
Re ring stats
Can some one ask a prot question please
sick sentinel
😡 NO 😡
autumn pendant
Yes he has weird pp
half palm
fuckin weebs
autumn pendant
Shut up furry
lime mantle
Fucking degenerates.
lusty grotto
🤔
I personally get excited at doing chef stuff
Whatever floats your boats guys
Have yall tried my new beef a ronis
sick sentinel
No
lusty grotto
😡
sick sentinel
If it ain't Mac and cheese I mean is it even really considered food
sick sentinel
A lot of people say that but it's just Kraft
chilly brook
If your ravioli comes premade is it even real food?
lusty grotto
yes its real food, its just conveniently canned so lazy asses can microwave it
smh
😠
chilly brook
Sounds fake to me
lusty grotto
how dare you
still hound
guys what is better trait seductive power or iron fortress those are my choices for this ring
sick sentinel
iron fortress
still hound
okay thx
sick sentinel
generally, prot specific traits>general traits
still hound
okay thank you
exotic spoke
Except kaege forgot one very important point. People with anime profiles opinions don’t matter
exotic spoke
Good question
outer dew
What about pfps like mine?
lusty grotto
that's just a photo of you @outer dew smh
outer dew
Yea, but no one uses their own photos nowadays ):
vernal stirrup
what do you guys think of the customizable mechagon trinket? you can get a passive hot
chilly brook
Mine is pretty accurate to how I actually look :kappa
@vernal stirrup haven’t looked at it, hots can be nice but like we don’t need extra healing or self sustain
vernal stirrup
I was thinking since it's just a constant effect it might be pretty good
chilly brook
When it comes to trinkets like that though I think it’s hard to beat something like the gem from BFD since absorb will always be useful when compared to something where it’s either healing you or doing nothing
vernal stirrup
it can also give you a dodge buff for every time you take damage
that stacks
the only other 2 that seem relevant to me are a 10% haste proc, and then the one that "redistributes your stats to match the distribution on your equipped logic board"
chilly brook
I think a 10% haste proc would be more valuable than a hot
Unless you’re just doing solo content
vernal stirrup
I dunno, I just really like going ultra defensive as a tank, especially when warriors already have the damage covered
chilly brook
But that’s the thing
Your offense is your defense
Build rage
Spend rage
Get more
strong forum
Rage = Rage
chilly brook
Do that faster and you get more defense
Not to mention more haste=less CD on shield block
Haste is literally BiS for defense
vagrant arrow
wtf this waycrest manor this week
neon tangle
@vagrant arrow magic and more shit to hit you with magic
vagrant arrow
ye man i insta left after bad experience
vernal stirrup
I just like the legion dungeons more
orchid token
@chilly brook theres no way thats an unpopular opinion
Everyone I've ever spoken to preferred legion m+
chilly brook
Same @vernal stirrup
vernal stirrup
I don't know to express it except for like
the new dungeons feel less like a dungeon
they feel so much more produced, probably because they were made for m+
mostly the trash actually
I really like a lot of the new bosses
neon tangle
I don't really get why people dislike the trash so much, I like that it makes you think
and like, use interupts/abilities
lusty grotto
yeah i feel the same way
both were good
both are good
having to manage cc, interrupts and maneuvering through it in this expansion is enjoyable though kind of getting old
but i suppose the seasonals are made to address that
i did enjoy tyrannical bosses in legion a lot more though
tyrannical bosses in BFA are snoozefest except for a select few
the obvious exception being extremely high keys
sick sentinel
Legion was the expansion that brought me to wow honestly. Ive always followed. The lore tho.
lusty grotto
legion was good
it started shitty
but it got better
and by shitty i only mean very little aspects of it like AP grinding and leggos
so its not really a "expansion was trash" kind of comment
they might just make BFA better as it goes, hopefully
exotic spoke
Leggos as an idea weren’t bad imo. Leggos as executed had major flaws. The random nature - along with the MAJOR bug at the start was horrible
Also the disparity between power of the legendaries locked you into them once you had certain ones
sand egret
conceptually it's exactly what WoW needs, as it's become more of a theme park. The issue was poison in the well. They spent the rest of the expac trying to fix the well when the issue was the water.
ultimately, they just gave us an antidote and said "drink up"
neon tangle
@lusty grotto my own theory is that part of why a lot of bosses feel easy is that the trash is relatively hard, so most of the time if you can get through the trash you'll kill the boss
obviously on higher keys with some tyran bosses its pretty spicy
sand egret
there's also few bosses that scale like the legion ones, while there are wayyy more trash mechanics that do
neon tangle
I feel like tyran weeks are supposed to give you that feel, but they just feel like they force you to pull trash like a madman to give you enough time to ST down the boss
so you end up with more trash mechanics at the same time, even if they don't hit as hard
sand egret
well because they didn't scale most bosses in the same way in legion
in fear of the legion issue where you'd get to these legit hard-caps
Mechagon is going to be an excellent case-study of potential M+ changes on the dungeon design front, imho
chilly brook
Trash being dangerous is fine
However I don’t enjoy how they handled the trash in BFA at all and I don’t think it’s well balanced either
The huge difference in dungeon difficulty between fort and tyrannical isn’t how it should be imo
sand egret
I think your conflating dungeon design with compounding difficulty due to key scaling.
the huge difference between two adjacent weeks is due to how Fort/Tyrannical cause stupid scaling for each incremental key
lusty grotto
yeah @exotic spoke i agree
sand egret
the biggest question to answer is how do you make things a) difficult and b) difficulty that scales granularly, without touching damage/health
lusty grotto
honestly i was scratching my head around the tyrannical/fort switch but i honestly think it made sense
sand egret
explosive is an interesting take on that problem
lusty grotto
you want them as entry level affixes so its easier and its not a 10 bump
easier to get used to as you climb in key number, i mean
sand egret
i expect them to remove tyr/fort entirely and bake into key levels a more aggressive curve
exotic spoke
I agree nim. I like it coming at the beginning instead of at 10. Smoother transition and it doesn’t feel like a brick wall the first time in a season
lusty grotto
that would make sense too
exotic spoke
I’d be good with that - make it more of a logarithmic curve than it is
lusty grotto
yeah
sand egret
unless you're doing the math out, your average user isn't going to get the exponential gains between a +13 and a +14
neon tangle
I mean, maybe that's the point
sand egret
in the current system it just feels like shit
lusty grotto
right right
neon tangle
0-10 is a nice gentle introduction
lusty grotto
that's exactly what i mean, i agree with
sand egret
and it's hard to explain, esp if you just came out of the lower key
neon tangle
above that shit starts to get wacky
sand egret
imho it's been two expansion of M+ and they've seen that the +10 "cap" is something they need to noodle with
exotic spoke
I think there needs to be a “cap” on rewards that’s attainable for the general population
sand egret
when the "top end" of the expansion is more than double that cap, the overall scaling is kinda wack
neon tangle
also 0-10 has it's own "scaling" that isn't just damage/health, you're giving them a gradual introduction to the affixes
exotic spoke
There is. And I agree with it is all I’m saying. Whether it should be 10 or 15 I don’t know. I like the higher keys dropping more gear too
sand egret
affixes should evolve post 10 in the same way they were applied in sub 10
neon tangle
and 10 is where it "starts"
lusty grotto
ok ok i see what you guys are saying
and i like it but... you have to consider that they don't want people not wanting to raid
sand egret
M+ is a system they just need to make a call on who they are catering it for
and go all in on that crowd
exotic spoke
I feel its for small group pve end game content
Personally
Like a group of friends - so you feel you have pve content without having to raid
sand egret
I think they were struggling with the role of raids in comparison
neon tangle
@sand egret I disagree a little there, 0-10 to me is sorta like LFR->Heroic, and mythic starts around 10
lusty grotto
10 feels a little to easy too be mythic like
exotic spoke
Like look at pvp. You have very small groups - 2s / 3s - to larger (I’ll say raid) size of 10 people it’s a nice blend
lusty grotto
to be honest
sand egret
you can't compare 10 to something like Mythic raiding for a fundamental reason
exotic spoke
But it drops 15 ilvls lower and you get 1 5 Ilvl lower end of week
neon tangle
@lusty grotto we've all done mythic champs/taloc
lusty grotto
but maybe i'm seeing it from the wrong perspective
exotic spoke
It’s repeatable
lusty grotto
so you might be right sadbox
sand egret
it's that raiding is designed, mechanically, around 20+ people. Dungeons are 5. That inherently limits complexity and what you can do with mechanics, which in turn limits how one can scale those mechanics.
lusty grotto
i guess since i don't have a guild and haven't really tried mythic fights after the first bosses... i might be attributing a lot more difficulty to them
neon tangle
@sand egret I'd argue that KR10 or something is harder to do than say, Taloc or Champs
sand egret
mythic raiding is inherently "harder" in that regard, M+ creates difficulty artificaially
apples and oranges
that's the point
a KR 10 with 20 people
ezpz
lusty grotto
also raids don't scale at all
sand egret
but even then, they've had to shy away from particular ones like Overflowing because it is too niche in an environment where, in this case, you only have one healer
lusty grotto
mythic raids at least
sand egret
raids "scale" in the sense between their own difficulties
neon tangle
3-drake Jaina was a pretty rough fight
lusty grotto
lol
neon tangle
someone dropped a blingtron during mekka prog
lusty grotto
man when i did blingtron achieve
i didnt think you could troll mekka mythic so hard with it lol
exotic spoke
Well two people dropped one each and yes
sand egret
what's it do?
lusty grotto
idk what it was
exotic spoke
They fight and a new blingtron spawns on lull “I got next” to fight the winner
lusty grotto
it was for a raid achievement, just made the fight harder
sand egret
i know, but how does it make it harder
lusty grotto
it was on zek'vos sorry
puzzlebox of yogg-saron yeah
you used it
and someone clicked it
The achievement What's in the Box? can be obtained by using the Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron in front of the Projection of Yogg-Saron that will spawn during the second phase of the Zek'voz encounter in Uldir. Doing so will spawn a Rubiks cube that will randomly solve itself. This will also cause Void Barrages to spawn every couple seconds, dealing heavy damage to players hit, effectively making the fight harder. To complete the achievement, you must then defeat Zek'voz.
i wonder if someone trolled that on mythic :p
neon tangle
anywho, back to the whole, what m+ is, I think it's in a fairly good state, the wildly changing difficulty from week to week is... maybe a problem?
lusty grotto
i think that's just a result of certain combos
neon tangle
it does feel bad when I miss an easy week, or want to push on a "bad" week
sick sentinel
Does anyone here play a Druid tank as an alt? How are they or what's the closes to a Warrior?
lusty grotto
both prot pala and bears are pretty close
neon tangle
baers getting buffs in 8.2
sick sentinel
and monks?
lusty grotto
you use 1 skill as AM (SotR / ironfur)
sick sentinel
ah ok
lusty grotto
monks are kind of different
neon tangle
kinda hard to compare monks play to any other tanks right now
sick sentinel
ow ok - I really have fun on my warrior - but just want a second tank. Not sure which one.
Are monk good or not ?
lusty grotto
i guess?
but they have a different system
you can use Ironskin brew like you would use shield block but you gotta learn how to manage stagger
neon tangle
@sick sentinel Raid or m+?
sick sentinel
M+ only
neon tangle
Personally, unless you have one that you really like, I would wait until next season happens and see how things shake out
lusty grotto
most of the other tanks you use an ability that makes you mitigate (SotR, ironfur, demon spikes, marrowrend for bone shield, isb)
neon tangle
all of us are just guessing about what would be good to play next season
and I can't tell you which one you'd enjoy the rotation/playstyle of 😛
lusty grotto
yeah that's mostly subjective
sick sentinel
@neon tangle thanks mate - was thinking the same thing. So leveling a Druid and monk at the moment. I just dont like Pallies and DK tanks at the moment for some reason,
lusty grotto
you lose nothing by trying them out
however VDHs on the higher level are kinda rough since they need a bit of love from Blizz
neon tangle
the 110 trials are a good way to mess around with the rotation if you're interested
lusty grotto
anything else is good
neon tangle
monk/druid are good bets if you ever want to flex dps or heals
neon tangle
also wow doesn't need more ret pallies
lusty grotto
i like ret pallies
neon tangle
that's good, because there's a million of them
all trying for the like 2 melee raid spots
lusty grotto
but alas, chipadin's only spec is hpal
lollll
thats true
can you believe all classes added after classic
and there hasn't been a new ranged class
all ranged classes are basically straight from classic
not counting healers
neon tangle
in fact, we had a ranged spec get swapped to melee
lusty grotto
yup
DK = melee, Monk = melee, DH = melee
also most classes are put in every 2 expansions
TBC -> WotLK (DK) -> Cata -> MoP (Monk) -> WoD -> Legion (DH) -> BFA
so we're due a new class next expansion kind of
which i'm hoping will be ranged
neon tangle
inb4 leather melee
lusty grotto
lmao yeah
oblique garnet
Cloth melee 😃
oblique garnet
i miss demo tank
lusty grotto
a ranged tank would be awesome
neon tangle
@lusty grotto I think melee BM hunter tank would be kinda fun, just make the pet stick to your side
lusty grotto
yeah but just imagine a ranged class with tank/heal/dps spec
im not gonna lie though BM as a tank sounds nice
neon tangle
I want to believe, but I also haaaaaaaate it when I try and solo shit on my BM hunter, like big AoE junk
it's really awkward working around the targetting and shit with a pet
lusty grotto
i dont know if hunters will be happy about it though lol
neon tangle
Just do the druid thing and make it a 4th spec
lusty grotto
blasphemy
supple path
I think a BM hunter tank would make 50% of the wow population quit the first time they got one in their group.
neon tangle
Shit, just steal stagger
You redirect x% of damage to your pet
and have pet healing mechanics
chilly brook
@sand egret dropping tyr and fort and just baking it in would be ideal as they’re not really interesting affixes to begin with
I’d personally also drop teeming, it doesn’t feel like a particularly fun or interesting affix either
I’ve also been playing a lot of ESO lately and enjoying their content, which in a lot of ways is simpler but it’s also nice to have a normal and a “veteran” mode and have it just be difficult on its own merit without having to throw a bunch of scaling at it to have it be challenging
neon tangle
@lusty grotto Make spirit bond the AM
spirit bond + mend pet for the primary/secondary AM
your pet taunting could be a pretty major DR CD
since it would be roughly the same as all damage going in to stagger
oblique garnet
Why are we talking about bm hunter tanks?
warm plinth
Because this is fucking #protection
lusty grotto
why do you ask late, do you want to be one
warm plinth
Am I the only one who thinks survival is a dumb name for that spec ever since they gave traps back to the other specs?
lusty grotto
we can see through your lies
oblique garnet
Tanking is boring
chilly brook
But of course that’s also the problem with having such exponential stat gain and power creep in your game is that it becomes difficult to keep content challenging without ballooning all the damage and health
supple path
I think they've just decided "so we balloon it and then do a stat crunch every year or three" now.
oblique garnet
Whats fun in tanking?
lusty grotto
lmao
chilly brook
Yea they have @supple path
Which is odd because they don’t like doing them but then they fully embrace 45 ilvl jumps every raid tier
lusty grotto
when did they artificially increased power creep in legion?
sand egret
yeah that was my point. Tyr and Fort aren't bad inherently because they're "boring". It's because they have a non-intuitive interaction that cripples the ability for player introspection
warm plinth
Was that a legit question @lusty grotto ?
chilly brook
Artificially increase? There is no artificial increase with power creep lol
supple path
They added additional scaling in the form of the artifact, nimchip.
warm plinth
They also made world mobs scale
sand egret
the entire expansion was an artificial increase
lusty grotto
i meant in the form of visions of perfection
sand egret
its called Artifacts
lusty grotto
but censuras is right
warm plinth
Oh you meant power creep as in the player getting stronger. I misunderstood.
I focused too much on the reaction to power creep and confuzzled myself
lusty grotto
we had a couple expansions since we started hitting for millions though
sand egret
that's natural power creep
chilly brook
Either way there’s something to be said of keeping things simpler and a lot of things could be better designed imo if the devs didn’t have this mentality beat into them that they have to offer huge jumps in power each tier
lusty grotto
that's fine, neck is gone next expansion, so there's no need to de-scale
warm plinth
Yeah. Like we shouldn't really have people going from doing 10k DPS in AoE at the start of the expansion and 2 tiers in we're at 300k
sand egret
adding in a discrete system for only an expansion that completely takes over how players scale, that's different.
chilly brook
Except the neck still doesn’t account for the huge boosts to stats