protection

[ionic fern]

[brittle owl]

p u g s

[ionic fern]

Doesn't matter.
I just tell them "Don't touch the spotter" and we fine.

🤷

[brittle owl]

spotter makes things giga easy yeah

ends up badly tbh

[ionic fern]

Idk

[brittle owl]

esp at that key range

[ionic fern]

Hasn't so far.

Maybe i'm just super lucky with pug's.

[rapid trench]

On 15 you can just mow everything down tho

[brittle owl]

not really

there's alot of people that get to 1.5/1.6 k rio in an easy week

and they don't actually know how to play

[rapid trench]

Using the spotters requires more skill than mowing shit down with 410+ ilvl welfare gear tho

[brittle owl]

the spotter is stupid easy to use 🤷

i just accept the reality that people are mongs

[rapid trench]

Especially on the healer and during weeks like grievous

[brittle owl]

on grievous weeks pugging is a gamble anyway

[rapid trench]

Im not arguing that people arent mongs btw

[brittle owl]

cause success is dictated heavily by the healers ability

i figured you weren't

but like, mowing stuff down isn't something you get to experience too often

alot of times you get a rogue yeah, but he's a fotm reroller and does less damage than a tank on ST

and he finds some sort of bullshit excuse like

'lol outlaw doesnt have st damage'

[rapid trench]

True Im spoiled I dont really pug myself

[neon tangle]

@brittle owl as a FOTM rogue reroller I’m offended

Mostly due to the volume of horrible FOTM reroll prot warriors I run in to

[spice ferry]

I don’t do keys without guild anymore

[sand summit]

Is there a block cap?

[spice ferry]

What’s the point putting yourself through half an hour with shitters

[ionic fern]

No, no block cap @sand summit

[neon tangle]

@spice ferry my guild has 2 people who are OK at m+

[sand summit]

@ionic fern thank you

[neon tangle]

But overall a better experience pugging

[spice ferry]

Yikes

I’m the lowest doing like 13/14s in my guild just for weekly in mine

Average key is probably 18/19 haha

Kinda lost motivation with keys, not really had time to do much in game outside of raid + weeklys across my toons

[ionic fern]

We got 6 9 people in total over 2k in the guild. 😦

[brittle owl]

get this

i'm the highest io scored

at 1.7k

😂

i have a dh alt that i barely played outside of first 3 weeks of S2

still higher io than most of my guild

[spice ferry]

What is required for 2k? Like all keys at x lvl?

[brittle owl]

18

or so

or 17's and a few 18 idk, score scales up alot after 15

[ionic fern]

Jeh, roughly all 17's with like 2 18's in the mix

[spice ferry]

Yeh I kinda lose track of what scores mean beyond 15 haha

[ionic fern]

Or all 17's 2 chested.

😄

[spice ferry]

I wish there was more incentive to push further. A few extra pulls on the azerite slot machine isn’t enough imo

I’d love to see tmog or something tied to doing 10/15/20 in time each season

[ionic fern]

Jeah, that'd be great.

I just enjoy it tho so ..

[brittle owl]

tmog for achievements would be awsome

[spice ferry]

I enjoy it, but like

No tangible in game reward makes me lose interest over time

[brittle owl]

get 1 tint at 10's, second at 15's, third at 20's

[spice ferry]

Exactly

Literally take the pvp system

[brittle owl]

yup

[spice ferry]

And apply to m+

Done

Glad mounts for timing highest key on realm

Or something

[limpid kite]

Or give back the repair bill

[brittle owl]

nah

[ionic fern]

I'd be happy with that tbh.

😂

[brittle owl]

lmao

😂

idk anything outside cosmetic non tradeable rewards is iffy

[ionic fern]

Sure i guess. Never really cared for transmogs or other schenanigans. 😦

I'm probably in the minority tho so. .

[limpid kite]

I did kr11 with :Pepega: team and after 1 and half hour I got no loot FeelsBadMan and my repair was around 3k

[ionic fern]

That's the thing that tilts me the most.
Did a +10? Gz, here's a 400 ilvl.
Did a +23? Gz, here's a 400 ilvl.

[spice ferry]

I just like being able to throw on a tmog and remembering what I did to earn it

[ionic fern]

😂

[brittle owl]

nah loot scaling continuously with key level would nulify raiding

the loot as is feels appropriate tbh

[spice ferry]

Like using the challenge mode appearances reminding me of the guys I used to run with

[limpid kite]

Did a +9? Here is your iLVL 420 titanforged trinket for the last dps

[spice ferry]

Nah you just get what... 3 pieces of loot

[brittle owl]

the only bad part is that you need a 3rd party addon to epeen

[ionic fern]

I honestly don't care about raiding. 😂

[spice ferry]

I’d like tf to not exist below a 10

[ionic fern]

That.

[brittle owl]

i'd like tf and wf to not exist

[spice ferry]

We all had to grind up from 370 to 400

[brittle owl]

period

[spice ferry]

I mean yeh, but that ain’t happening

[brittle owl]

they are hinting at removing TF

[spice ferry]

Nah

Won’t happen

[brittle owl]

having just wf would be a giga improvement

[spice ferry]

Restricting and limiting it sure, but they love the system

[brittle owl]

i don't think they do tbh

but

[spice ferry]

Ion gets way too hard over it

[brittle owl]

a LARGE portion of the player base does

[spice ferry]

Every time he talks about it

[brittle owl]

most of the playerbase actually

[spice ferry]

Likes it?

[brittle owl]

ya

it;s easy ilvl

[ionic fern]

Ofc, it's fun seeing people who only run 5-10 keys be higher than me in ilvl.

[spice ferry]

I’ve never had a conversation with anyone that I play with who said “I think tf is fine as is”

[brittle owl]

disregard the obvious bubble you're playing in

[spice ferry]

On disc/ reddit sure

[brittle owl]

most people don't raid or do m+

or do any relevant content outside of ingame LFG tool

had a friend that played wow sometime during my 7 year hiatus

and he was like

"wow is easy i did everything in the game after 3 months"

by that he meant LFR

😂

[spice ferry]

I’ve raided in guilds who didn’t get aotc in a tier and guilds who got ce within the last two expacs. I can’t think of anyone who was happy with lfr over 2 expacs

But yeh, bubbles

[ionic fern]

There's a ton of casuals in the game definetly.

[brittle owl]

casual =/= bad

[spice ferry]

Casuals do not need nor benefit from tf

So why does it exist for them

[brittle owl]

there's alot of bad players

the amount of time you spend ingame is irelevant

[spice ferry]

Oh I know haha

[limpid kite]

I just wanna get that red rune when I got 0 loot from m+

[brittle owl]

casual is a buzzword for shit players

[spice ferry]

Yep

[brittle owl]

to argue that they are underperfroming because those that do OBVIOUSLY play way more than them

[spice ferry]

You can play casually and get ce

[brittle owl]

exactly

[spice ferry]

Or play casually and be 2k+

Hell I play... 6.5 hours a week and should still get ce this tier

[brittle owl]

theres literally a ton of 6 hr/week guilds that get CE

[spice ferry]

Presuming they don’t bust out 8.2 sooner than anyone expects

[brittle owl]

and there are "casual"guilds that play 9+ hours a week and get AoTC at the end of the tier

[spice ferry]

And I fucked around in a 3/9 guild for 2 months

I hit 50 neck ASAP then raidlog and do my weekly

[brittle owl]

farming neck😖

[rapid trench]

Well it used to be a long time ago that time invested equaled character progression

But this isnt the case these days

[brittle owl]

that hasn't been the case since wrath

you could argue even since BC

[rapid trench]

Yea but somehow casual is still a cover word for shit players

[quiet star]

How can i see the chance to critically block?

[spice ferry]

It was easy, can play at work and clear all ap quests in 30/45

[sick sentinel]

@quiet star it's literally your mastery%

Assuming you have shield block or last stand up

[quiet star]

thanks

[orchid token]

I think you fix TF by just making sure the TF cap is the same as mythic base ilvl

then nerf the chance overall

the only time ive ever gotten tilted at titanforge is when I see someone doing low content who has a higher item level than me for something juicy like a good trinket

as long as the best they can get is the same as what I get

im ok with that

because a few normal or heroic raiders running around with 1 or 2 base mythic ilvl pieces doesnt bother me

but them getting a 425 TF while im stuck with 415 on something juicy is not right

even if the rest of their gear sucks

[sick sentinel]

Strong agree

[orchid token]

apart from that i think the system is fine

cut the chance for it to happen in half and cap it at mythic base ilvl and the system's positives remain in place for everyone while the negatives for high level players are removed

[spice ferry]

So what, if it’s not mythic raid, tf cap is 415?

[orchid token]

yeah

[spice ferry]

If it’s mythic raid, tf cap is 425?

[orchid token]

no

cap overall is 415

so mythic raiders dont need to care about TF

[lime mantle]

What if you got tokens for doing high level content to force ilvl upgrades on gear 🤔

[orchid token]

they just get capped loot baseline

[spice ferry]

Yeh I would t mind that

[swift pier]

titanforger vendor would be nice

[spice ferry]

It then the game loses a tonne of replay ability

[swift pier]

put 2 normal pieces to increase a piece by 5ilvls

would make sense

[spice ferry]

Which is something they’d definitely take into account

[orchid token]

i think the downsides of having loot titanforge above base mythic ilvl are bigger than the downsides of people finishing their toons

people got BIS in WOD and before and nobody stopped playing because of it

[lime mantle]

^^^

[orchid token]

its a made up problem the devs made up on their own

[spice ferry]

But from a player retention lvl?

[orchid token]

nobody quit because they got BIS in every slot

ever

that has literally never happened

[spice ferry]

Yeh true

[orchid token]

i know ion cited it in his titanforge blog

but its not a real thing

[sick sentinel]

Ay that's where you're wrong

[spice ferry]

The people who get perfect bis do not quit haha

[orchid token]

people who get perfect bis keep raiding to flex parses

[spice ferry]

Because to get bis you’re massively invested anyway

And are a 12/12 month sub

[sick sentinel]

We literally had a guy is firelands get his bis, he pvped for a bit and fucked around and then he was like "see you next tier"

And we DID see him next tier though

[spice ferry]

Exception not the rule imo

[sick sentinel]

To be fair

Necrys' idea sounds really good

[lime mantle]

The people who’d quit with perfect bis have already quitter becaus they can no longer get bis lmao

[sick sentinel]

For many different reasons

[spice ferry]

*^^^^^^

[sick sentinel]

LMAO @lime mantle

[spice ferry]

Yeh I like that mythic raiding would provide the best gear

It would encourage more people to challenge themselves and try it

[sick sentinel]

The other thing this would do is slow down gear inflation

[spice ferry]

What they need to fix imo is the first 1/2/3 bosses being a fucking meme

Like 2/8 uldir and 3/9 bod are stupid easy

[sick sentinel]

YES PLEASE

[lime mantle]

Jaina as fist boss

[spice ferry]

And then it’s like oh boy that difficulty jump

[sick sentinel]

What I have been saying this whole tier

[lime mantle]

🤔

[sick sentinel]

First boss mythic, or at least fucking second boss

Opulence

[spice ferry]

The difference between grong/jade (also who though that was a fucking good idea) then oppu... wow

[sick sentinel]

If you can't get opulence, then you do not deserve mythic loot and fuck you

[spice ferry]

Yeah I agree. But there are countless guilds bashing their heads into mythic because they got 3/9 relatively easy

And 4/9 is a big jump

[sick sentinel]

"We're a small mythic guild progressing"

[ionic fern]

It's like that every tier tho.

[jade holly]

Because opulance is personal responsiblity

[sick sentinel]

"What's your prog"

3/9

[spice ferry]

And I’m saying that I dislike that

[lime mantle]

Light >Literally winter grasp piñata
Jade>Sorta hard but heroic tier
grong>see champs, but more damage
Opulence>WELCOME TO DIE

[sick sentinel]

Not a mythic guild then is it

[jade holly]

You can pug opulance tho tbh

[spice ferry]

First three are entirely yolo whatever, oppu is hella personal responsibility

I still think oppu is easy, but idk

But the jump is real

[sick sentinel]

You still need to use your brain

[brittle owl]

everything is relatively easy if you have the mental capacity do complete a puzzle without a reference photo

but some people don't

a shocking amount of people actually don't

[spice ferry]

Yeh but being 3/9 leads people to think they are capable, and then all of a sudden that dream is crushed because 4/9 is what a mythic boss should be

[brittle owl]

alot of people think they are capable

[sick sentinel]

To be fair

[brittle owl]

when in reality they are either boosted or have had their hands held

[sick sentinel]

My gf is 5/9 on her ret without opulence

Like she did fine on conclave and on rastakhan

[spice ferry]

Can’t say much myself... I’ll be getting ce without a mekka kill 😛

[brittle owl]

feels non dk man

[sick sentinel]

And they have been reaching 20-30% pretty regularly on mekka

[spice ferry]

Feels dk main

Poached for 3/9 casual guild

[oblique garnet]

4/9 on mythic is a joke

[spice ferry]

For stormwall

[sick sentinel]

But she "can't do opulence"

[brittle owl]

i can understand that tbh

[spice ferry]

I think oppu should have been before conc

[oblique garnet]

I pugged on my shaman yesterday and we oneshotted first 4 bosses withour comms

[brittle owl]

for the life of me, i couldnt parse on jadefire

[spice ferry]

Though I saw conc for 30? As a reclear

[brittle owl]

took me like 6-7 kills

[sick sentinel]

She says that she can't because when they joined those guys after they had it on farm

[brittle owl]

to figure out how

[jade holly]

Opulance should be harder tbh

[sick sentinel]

So she did fine on conc and rasta and doing fine on mekka because she progressed it with the guild

[jade holly]

You barely have to do gem management

[spice ferry]

Jade parse was ez for dk. Bonestorm + grong + razdunk ezpz holds

[oblique garnet]

Opulence as dps is just your basic awarness check

[brittle owl]

gems are the easy part

[spice ferry]

Golds*

[sick sentinel]

And she learned from her and the others' mistakes

[jade holly]

So you dont even get to use the mechanics to their full potential

Gem*

[spice ferry]

I really disliked how long passage took on grong

[brittle owl]

ye idk on paladin that was my last 99 parse, and arguably my worst lol

[spice ferry]

On oppu*

[jade holly]

They could have made op so much better

[spice ferry]

Passages should have been half as long

[oblique garnet]

Its not a bad fight

[spice ferry]

And p2 linger

[brittle owl]

for some reason jadefire dps optimization eluded me for a full month+

[spice ferry]

Fight woulda been cool

[oblique garnet]

As a boss its nice

[spice ferry]

It’s cool I just found corridors boring af

[oblique garnet]

As tank the fight is just boring

[spice ferry]

Like the gems in p2 it’s fun

[brittle owl]

they are boring as a tank

and p2 is fun cuz you can mongo dps

esp on warr/pala/veng

[oblique garnet]

P2 is also quite boring

[jade holly]

Needs a hp buff to make people use gems efficiently

[spice ferry]

It’s just shit that you go through what... 4mins? Of shit to get to the fun stuff

[brittle owl]

big numbers

[oblique garnet]

Sure its big numbers

But all you have to do

Is just stand there

[brittle owl]

save cds for add phases

[sick sentinel]

Do you know what's fun in opulence

[brittle owl]

and just have 1 opal

[ionic fern]

Isn't that like 80% of the fights as a tank?

[sick sentinel]

Outdpsing the fire

[ionic fern]

Just standing there?

[spice ferry]

That’s 80% of all fights as tank let’s be real

[sick sentinel]

You make him go in the next room before the dance

[brittle owl]

raid tanking in general is p boring outside of dps optimisation

[oblique garnet]

Pretty much

[brittle owl]

or cheesing mechanics

[spice ferry]

If you’re not dps optimising as a tank.. why are you tanking

[ionic fern]

There's plenty of tanks who don't care about dps optimising.

[brittle owl]

yeah

beats me why but

[oblique garnet]

Opulence doesnt even do damage

[brittle owl]

like, i legit dunno how and when they got that mentality

[spice ferry]

They’ve always had that

I got into so many arguments with my old tank

[brittle owl]

probably veteran players that played like actual shite in early expacs

[spice ferry]

I got 99s, he got sub 10 parses

[brittle owl]

bUt I TaEk LeSs DaHmAgE

[spice ferry]

Maybe the occasional 15

[sick sentinel]

I know many people that say "I'm a tank I'm not supposed to do damage"

[spice ferry]

Reeeeee that mentality

So much ree

[rapid trench]

Bring back vengeance and ill care more about tank dps again

[brittle owl]

these plebs were probably just doing MC in vanilla and maybe heroic dungeons in TBC

"lul i am oldschool player"

[sick sentinel]

One of them asked me if he should take never surrender when ip was getting off cd

[brittle owl]

they never got to the point where threat management actually mattered

[sick sentinel]

Also the same guy that wanted to try dragon roar

[spice ferry]

Y I K E S

[sick sentinel]

And also had no idea how to play the game but wanted to mythic raid

I told him to read the guides/resources

[brittle owl]

if a player is in the boosted/casual as an excuse mentality

they will never try to improve

[sick sentinel]

But he doesn't understand english that much, he has only a basic knowledge

[brittle owl]

so you're wasting your breath

[sick sentinel]

Fucking greeks lmao

[spice ferry]

God it must be tough being eu sometimes

[brittle owl]

nah

[spice ferry]

I take for granted never not playing with people who speak my language natively

[rapid trench]

Being eu is pretty great

[sick sentinel]

I mean

[brittle owl]

it's an easy triage tbh

[sick sentinel]

I'm greek as well

[brittle owl]

if you don't speak english very well but are playing on an english server

[sick sentinel]

This guy is the minority

[brittle owl]

chances are you're pretty shit

[spice ferry]

Having language based servers lol

[sick sentinel]

To be fair

[brittle owl]

theres diff lang servers for a reason

[spice ferry]

I’m oce... we have a few Asian guilds and that’s it haha

[worn vector]

My mother is learning to tank apparently. She has made notes

[rapid trench]

Theres plenty good players with weak english playing english realms

[brittle owl]

and they're no meme, there's alot of top 20 guilds from diff lang realms

[sick sentinel]

Twilight's hammer and twisting nether are kind of greek servers

[oblique garnet]

Yes just look at method players

They dont speak english well 8)

[brittle owl]

rogerbrown does tho

kappa

[sick sentinel]

@worn vector THAT'S SO FUCKING CUTE HOLY SHIT

[spice ferry]

You really can’t ever use method in this kinda discussion, they’re entirely their own beast

[oblique garnet]

Pfft

Pieces is better

[rapid trench]

^

[sweet kettle]

but i actually dont wanna loose

[oblique garnet]

Once again proven by 2 boss tier who the real champs are

[brittle owl]

they're all good 🤷

[sweet kettle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386194810995998737/573932731168456724/unknown.png

[brittle owl]

everyone in the top 5 is good, it's just salt to say otherwise

like near the same level of good

[spice ferry]

Hahahahaha omg

[oblique garnet]

Ofc the top 5 is good

[spice ferry]

Yeh there really can’t be that much variation at the absolute top

[brittle owl]

obv you can consider the top 100 good as well, just not WF competitive

[oblique garnet]

But even they have some players who are not that great

[rapid trench]

Theyre not near the same level good clearly

[brittle owl]

in any competition

[rapid trench]

Cause otherwise youd routinely have shakeups within the top 5

[brittle owl]

the differences needed to win are minuscule

[rapid trench]

And this isnt the case at all

Its method and then theres a gap

[brittle owl]

fair enough i guess

[rapid trench]

For non filler raids

Not to take anything away from pieces ofc

[oblique garnet]

I honestly believe pieces could actually give method run for their money but they dont day raid as much as method does

[rapid trench]

Agreed

[spice ferry]

Yeh I was just about to say. Pieces schedule is way lighter

[sick sentinel]

Keep in mind

[spice ferry]

If it was same across both, it’d be interesting

[sick sentinel]

Method has the resources to literally play all day

Sponsors etc

[brittle owl]

thats the thing with wow

[spice ferry]

And this is what I mean by you can’t compare other guilds to method

[brittle owl]

if you can play it as a proffession, you have a big advantage

[oblique garnet]

They dont get enough money from wow

Alone

[brittle owl]

like if you're a streamer

evidently

[spice ferry]

Method is it’s own beast because of sponsors/streaming etc

[brittle owl]

but WoW is their main claim to fame

[oblique garnet]

There are few method core players who have full time jobs

[brittle owl]

yeah but for the most part they're not jobs that req too much involvement/commitement

like cayna is a butcher afaik

punch in punch out, career options limited and minimal responsibility

not saying butcher works is bad

but it's a good job to sustain his WoW hobby

[oblique garnet]

Xirips works in an office iirc

[brittle owl]

as compared to being a developer for instance

[sick sentinel]

Josh :)

[oblique garnet]

Josh is an idiot

Good healer

But dumb as shit

[spice ferry]

I’d rather have the dev job. Clock in a bunch of hours before tier, slowly drip feed that work to clients over prog, then back to normal once boss dead

[brittle owl]

josh is smarter than people think tbh.

complete autist tho

[oblique garnet]

Smart when it comes to wow

[spice ferry]

A clock in clock out doesn’t like you taking a month off (in Australia anyway)

[brittle owl]

EU you have 20smthing days off a year in most countries

so it's a non issue

[oblique garnet]

Its not like that

[spice ferry]

In aus you (should) have 4 weeks holiday

In any decent job

So yeh, 20

[oblique garnet]

You cant just take the days off when you want

[brittle owl]

yeah that's what i meant

[spice ferry]

But yeh ^

[brittle owl]

plus like national/religious holidays

[oblique garnet]

Religious holidays?

[brittle owl]

so it ends up being 1-2 months of workdays without actual work

[oblique garnet]

Christmas?

[brittle owl]

i mean like christmas n shit

[spice ferry]

In aus that would be sinking beer

[sick sentinel]

Easter

[brittle owl]

toussaint

[spice ferry]

Requires multiple national holidays throughout the year

[brittle owl]

mardi gras

depends on country

and dominant religion

[oblique garnet]

Depending on the profession you might still have to work on both christmas and easter

[brittle owl]

yeah but they aren't that common

and usually in the service industry

[oblique garnet]

Yeah

[spice ferry]

Service industry 🤢

[oblique garnet]

But its with double pay + overtime etc

[brittle owl]

^

[oblique garnet]

So you end up making 4 days worth of money from one day

[brittle owl]

by service industry i am including stuff like IT support btw

[oblique garnet]

Nah

It support doesnt work in christmas

[brittle owl]

depends

[oblique garnet]

They are never actually there when you need them

[brittle owl]

they do more often than not

but it depends on what they're actually supporting

if it's vital

[oblique garnet]

On like a factory for example

[brittle owl]

they will do shifts

in a factory its irelevant

[oblique garnet]

They are not there during major holidays

[brittle owl]

if the factory is closed

why would they be there

[oblique garnet]

Nono the factory is not closes

Closed

[brittle owl]

aren't they at least on call

[ionic fern]

Depends on the company.

[oblique garnet]

Its almost all outsourced to cheaper countries

[brittle owl]

ofc it depends on company

[oblique garnet]

So they have only like few it support working in premises

[brittle owl]

some companies know how to do disaster/damage prevention

some don't

and only do disaster management

[spice ferry]

Whenever anyone talks about work in eu, it always sounds like you all work for huge companies. Are small businesses not really a thing?

[brittle owl]

depends on what you mean by small business

do you mean a business without know-how

[spice ferry]

I mean business with small employee numbers

[brittle owl]

well ofc there are

[honest canopy]

Any EU Clappas wanna come a ML11?

Allowed to dipps

[ionic fern]

At work

.:(

[brittle owl]

but what does that have to do with what we're talking

[spice ferry]

It doesn’t really, i was just curious. Don’t talk to many eu people

[honest canopy]

Bah

I am bored, wanna do a random key

[night valve]

I have problems with high uptime shield block in mythic +. What yours usually at the end?

[ionic fern]

o.o

Depends on the pulls/dungeons/duration

You should not check the overall uptime anyways.

[brittle owl]

^

[ionic fern]

Are there any more specific issues @night valve ?

[brittle owl]

overall uptime of anything in a dungeon is mostly irrelevant/missleading

except maybe potions

[night valve]

Sure, i understand that. But the rotation your using for shield block, how does it go? Like using 3x shield block then last stand, and then shield block again?

[ionic fern]

Roughly.

[spice ferry]

I mean you could look at uptime during combat?

[ionic fern]

If you need that much SB in a row.

[spice ferry]

That would be a relevant piece of info

[quiet star]

Have i selected the right traits? My available traits kinda suck 😦 this would be for raiding, not m+

[brittle owl]

if you need more than that you really should get better dps imo

mob packs shouldnt live longer than 1-1.2 mins

[ionic fern]

Head seems fine, shoulders i'd take either UF or Heed my call, chest i'd use Blightborne/Gutripper - these are all more DPS focused traits so if you are unfamiliar with the class or have issues surviving then you can keep on using defensive options.

@quiet star

[sick sentinel]

I would go earthlink>gutripper personally

Better for aoe

[ionic fern]

Not many raid fights with a lot of AoE tho.

[brittle owl]

ehm

[sick sentinel]

Oooh sorry

He said raiding

[brittle owl]

bod has alot of cleave

most fights have cleave actually

[quiet star]

its for jaina, im a DK main but im tired of monk

[sick sentinel]

Gutripper for execute

[brittle owl]

^

[quiet star]

and they wont let me dk on jaina

[ionic fern]

😂

Feels bad.

[brittle owl]

at this point its kinda silly

you can do jaina on any tank now without much struggle

[quiet star]

looking to give the healers the least amount of heart attacks tho

[spice ferry]

Bert are you from barthilas?

[quiet star]

nope

[sand condor]

So i have a pretty good chance at standing in for mythic jaina on wednesday. Does anyone have any specific things that i need to care for as a protwar in that fight?

[ionic fern]

Not sure how far you're in on the fight.

If only doing p1 then nothing else than keep SB up and don't nuke people with Avalanches.

[sick sentinel]

If you struggle to move the bitch

charge her and then run

And she will follow

[spice ferry]

Weird, there is a bert, who also tanks and just started jaina haha

[sand condor]

I think they’ve gotten to wall phase

[worthy dagger]

i go full haste on my prot

meticulous, gizmo, OP you name it

[sick sentinel]

It's a good life style to keep

Lost my op and I miss it

[ionic fern]

Can't miss something i never had.

😦

[honest canopy]

Ree

I need more friends

Friends i really wanna beat this druid on dipps thats 20 ilvls over me, when i go on my druid. Someone cba come game with me? Il carry your alts in 2 keys whenever you wanna ^_^

[worthy dagger]

with high haste it feels like you have bladestorm on your prot every time you cast devastate

except that it does low damage and its st and really crap

plus your auto attacks can have a 1.4 speed which is good for procs if you have devastator

for the kappa parses

[runic mica]

Anyone have any useful ovale tank scripts?

[brisk ferry]

what is ovale?

[worthy dagger]

he means ovulate

[hidden linden]

Ovale is an abomination

And discovering that it also exists for tanks

Is even worse

[sick sentinel]

Wtf is ovale

[hidden linden]

Rotation helper

Paste the script / APL in the addon

And push the button it tells you to

[sick sentinel]

Wtf

[ionic fern]

o.o

[sick sentinel]

Imagine being that bad

[hidden linden]

The main issue with it is that it does not teach a player how to think

I can understand wanting to use it to "learn a class"

But that's a terrible way to do it in my opinion

[sick sentinel]

Rotation helpers are literal garbage

[hidden linden]

While I agree

I wouldn't shit on people using them

I'd rather teach them why this kind of addon is really bad

if they still want to use it while knowing why they shouldn't

well

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sick sentinel]

neat thing: When Vision procs, even though ava only lasts a a handful of seconds, BoM procs for the full 20

[hardy geyser]

That’s hot

And in for a nerf xd

[sick sentinel]

not so neat thing: Vision can proc while ava is up (or you can use ava when vision procs) but instead of adding the duration it just brings it to a cap of 20 for each :/

[mortal brook]

also not great thing, if ava comes off cd but the visions procs, you cant real ava until the proc is over

[sick sentinel]

you can, but again it caps at 20s duration

so you wast time

[mortal brook]

weird, it like, doesnt let me activate it. same with AW

[sick sentinel]

i havn't tried it on todays version if they changed

as of yesterday around this time it worked

[mortal brook]

I miss Engine already D:

[sick sentinel]

At that point

but it also wasn't displaying the whole "10s off each time this procs"

and it now does

Wait what do you mean you miss engine

engine as of right now has been replaced by

sec

reality shift

[mortal brook]

it got replaced by a shit tier

[sick sentinel]

Wtf

"creat a beacon at target location, after 3s reloacte to this beacon and deal fire damage to nearby enemies"

[worthy dagger]

which one is the rage one:

[worthy dagger]

that consumes 50% less rage

[sick sentinel]

Lucid dreams

[worthy dagger]

that thing is good

[sick sentinel]

its not a full consumes 50% less rage

its a CHANCE to refund 50% rage

havn't tested the ppm on it tho

so it could be complete garbage

[worthy dagger]

does it work on prot warrior?

[mortal brook]

yes

[sick sentinel]

yes

[worthy dagger]

then we are broken

[jolly iron]

is there any situation in which stam flask>str flask

[worthy dagger]

that with AM

[mortal brook]

eh, we were exactly rage starved

[sick sentinel]

there seems to be stronger passives tbh

CR build

Kappa

[worthy dagger]

then enforced BoM even more with those procs

they*

[sick sentinel]

we get into the Fray. but instead of haste its Verse and a free IV per target near us

that sounds super stronk

[worthy dagger]

i prefer haste

[sick sentinel]

i mean you keep into the fray as well

[worthy dagger]

😮

[sick sentinel]

this is an essence

[mortal brook]

aegis minor will be good yeah

[lime mantle]

OwO

This gonna be silly

[sick sentinel]

also if you go low the verse amount doubles

not that you go that low often lul

[mortal brook]

aegis minor will compete with sphere and worldvein depending on target uptime

[sick sentinel]

i was super excited about dynamo

till i saw it was magic only :/

perma Archimondes hatred reborn woulda been ❤

but iwth only magic damage i doubt itll be consumed that often

I saw the essences when they got revealed

I have no idea of what you are talking about rn

[ebon geyser]

Anyone with some free time that can look at my logs in the log channel. Feel free to PM me.Ty.

[sick sentinel]

"every 15s gain a null barrier absorbing the next 35k magic damage taken for 10s. When it expires it implodes dealing damage equal to amount it absorbed"

so a smol AHR, but only for magic damage

[worthy dagger]

nothing can beat vision

[sick sentinel]

yah im feeling Vision main, Aegis/Sphere or Aegis/crucible passives

depending on the ppm of crucibles crit and bonus dmg

[worthy dagger]

vision will be main simply because it lowers Ava cooldown and if it procs and you have 3 BoM youre gonna have +1500 mastery

[mortal brook]

i think worldvein passive would out perform crucible in general, and outperform aegis in raid

[sick sentinel]

is Engine permagone? or did they just temp disable it

[mortal brook]

looks gone gone. it was op af compared to everything else tho. so you know, typical blizz killing the best stuff for the sake of player agency

[sick sentinel]

shame

i did notice the original unlock requirements (Mechadungeon) are now shifted onto vision

[mortal brook]

it was basically a periodic sera lol

[sick sentinel]

and Vision was originally Nazjatar achieve unlocked

[worthy dagger]

all ppm effects can be increased based on haste correct?

so technically the more haste you have the higher the chance of procing

[sick sentinel]

i dont think so

i think ppm are locked

think being the key

[worthy dagger]

theres been times where you overlap procs

[mortal brook]

if its flagged for rppm yes then it scales with haste

[sick sentinel]

RPPM is affected by haste

PPM is not

[worthy dagger]

what R stands for

[sick sentinel]

realistic

[worthy dagger]

ok

[sick sentinel]

lol the active for the replacement for engine doens't even work

[mortal brook]

it replaced pph pre mop

[modern brook]

good morning

[sick sentinel]

Hello bull

[solid pendant]

( in m+), how should i treat avoidance on gear? how important is it?

[sand egret]

not important

[mortal brook]

theres no significant aoe dmg going out in any dungeon

[sand egret]

as in, dont sacrifice for it. its the cherry on top

[modern brook]

You might call it

Tertiary

[sand egret]

ill take that one

8/10

👏

[mortal brook]

oh wow, just noticed they updated Worldvein to imba. affects allies with worldvein now. gg mandatory for everyone lol

[solid pendant]

thank you 😃

[modern brook]

190 mainstat isnt worth the locomotive restriction imo

especially when there are other options 🤷

[sand egret]

8 yrds is also small

[modern brook]

^

[sand egret]

like the landing circle of HL small

[sick sentinel]

on a patchwerk fight though

[lucid bough]

the stat doesnt stack i think

[sick sentinel]

with all 20 using it

[lucid bough]

so its even worse

[mortal brook]

it does stack

and can be concurrent

[modern brook]

ahhh

[mortal brook]

just by yourself you can have several shards active

[modern brook]

🤷

[sand egret]

prob works like Ironfur

[lucid bough]

I read it didnt

hum

[sand egret]

multiple stacks with their own timers

can overlap

[modern brook]

🤷

maybe then

IDK im still pretty underwhelmed

[sand egret]

either way, I aint using it

boring as fuck

[modern brook]

^

[mortal brook]

what isnt

[sand egret]

id rather shoot a fireball

[modern brook]

^

[mortal brook]

this is the minor

[sand egret]

get cdr

[sick sentinel]

this was the passive

[modern brook]

I'd rather have 16% less cd on avatar 🤷

[sand egret]

i dont take Shimmering Haven for a reason

[mortal brook]

ofc we take visions major, but this is the minor that can party stack

[modern brook]

damn blade

You're the fucking JT to my fatone rn

we're nsync

[sand egret]

🛡

[modern brook]

🛡

[sand egret]

even of the minors, that is not high at all on my list

a) its boring and b) its restrictive at best or c) toxic at worst

[mortal brook]

theres minors that arent boring?

[sick sentinel]

engine

rip

[mortal brook]

rip engine

[sand egret]

“y U pLaCe Ur sHarDz THerE!?!”
“Cuz the boss had to move...”

[worthy dagger]

6 minutes dummy

[modern brook]

i mean u cant just be "LOL EVERYTHINGS BORING" thats not an argument nor a conversation worth having 🤷

[worthy dagger]

11 lucid procs

[mortal brook]

that's awful

[tired dagger]

I'd imagine if enough people are using worldvein boon, the drops would get staggered such that it becomes essentially a constant bonus

[sick sentinel]

the only big benefit i saw to lucid was pumping more rage to lower ava cd more

but other stuff does that better.. like spheres free haste

[mortal brook]

sphere and aegis good contenders for minors when you can have full uptime on them def

[tired dagger]

Moving the boss (and the melee stack) would drop the buff obviously but it'd start stacking again very quickly, assuming it stacks

[mortal brook]

have confirmed it stacks

[sick sentinel]

next confirmation. is there a cap

[tired dagger]

Though if your entire melee stack is running that they don't need you to also run it in

[mortal brook]

got a group of 3 stacking it, lemme grab more ptr ppl lol

[worthy dagger]

sphere is definitely a good one

[sand egret]

sphere is insane

if it works on bosses its even more insane

and honestly, Id take Null or Aegis as my 2nd minor

[sick sentinel]

null is conditional on huge magic fights/places

like shrine maybe

where itll be reliably consumed

id hard pass it on freehold

[sand egret]

every dungeon has magic of some kind

[mortal brook]

have 10 ppl with worldvein atm, i have an almost constant +3k str

[sand egret]

itll be better than others, but I welcome the constant buffer for a specific damage type, esp one we cant block

its basically a block for a spell every 15 seconds.

way more interesting than making rock piles

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mortal brook]

i really cant justify 1.5k magic hps vs this amount of uptime on strength lol

20 ppl, getting 6k str.

this is gonna get nerfed

[sick sentinel]

they'll probably just hard cap how many you can benefit from

[mortal brook]

id hope so. imagine even half those ppl had the active. get bursts of 10k mainstat lol

[sick sentinel]

do the active ones also share the buff?

[mortal brook]

lemme check

[sick sentinel]

the way its worded only the passively summoned ones do

[modern brook]

then they all die to sea spout :^)

[mortal brook]

no its fine, youll prevent 35k of that sea spout

[sick sentinel]

i wonder if the legendary from vision will actually do anything

[mortal brook]

they're all cosmetic

[sick sentinel]

right

but rn theres no visual component to it

and hoping for a cool ava form is too much

[mortal brook]

turns you into a mechagnome lol

[sand egret]

You should get your Vision checked if you cant see it.

[mortal brook]

yes, the actives also give those with passive the bonus from their actives

this needs nerfed tbh

[honest canopy]

I got declined to 2x TD10

9/9M, 1.7k rio. Clappa Warrior

Asked why

"Dont want warrior" , wtf?

[worthy dagger]

its ok i get declined on my guardian and my main has 2.5

then i secretly log on my warrior, join the group that i just got declined and drop their key

[mortal brook]

its grevious week i NEED a bdk! pog

[worthy dagger]

jk i dont do that but its actually a good idea

[mental scarab]

😂

[modern brook]

:^)

[worthy dagger]

prot pal > bdk

[olive merlin]

Bdk way more fun

[solid pendant]

the last bdk i had with me died 7 times to the sharks in sob. it was the funniest m+ ever

[worthy dagger]

bdk is discusting, pallys at least can toss their shield around

which is pretty cool honestly

[sick sentinel]

Captain America tanking lmao

[worthy dagger]

you have to admit that its really cool

[sick sentinel]

It is

[safe pumice]

what you think, after prot nerf what will be better for m+, bdk or protection war?

[olive merlin]

I like my warrior and bdk equally..I love bdk thematically.. the bones and decay and that lovely slow

[worthy dagger]

prot war

bdk is dead and im happy about it

[modern brook]

wow

I'm surprised someone unironically said bdk is fun

[worthy dagger]

"oh i got hit, let me react to that"

[modern brook]

the spec is like 70% stress

[sick sentinel]

@mortal brook you can also give multiple stacks to yourself with the passive

the passive solo isn't locked to 1 up at a time

[mortal brook]

i know

getting like a 2.2 stack average personally

[worthy dagger]

fun tank is dh

but the class is such a potato

low damage, low survivability, its awful

[jagged bay]

hello have a nice weekend everyone!

[sick sentinel]

You too @jagged bay <3

[jagged bay]

😃

thanks

[lime mantle]

Bdk is like being crippled@from@the waist down.

[lusty grotto]

have a nice weekend @jagged bay

[jagged bay]

😃

[modern brook]

I kepe trying t like DK on the whole tbh

Cause aesthetically its sick af

but lol frost

Blood is meh

and unholy has like 17 plates and im a cripple with 1 hand and 4 brain cells

[chilly brook]

Frost was fun

Then they took away legendaries

Machine gun spec was 👌🏻

[mint adder]

I loved UH dk last xpac

Pumped ST

[lime mantle]

Machine gun frost is always 👌

[fierce urchin]

Prot war will most likely still be great. yeh clap is getting nerfed. but.. the avatar essence offsets that. if VDH gets an actual mitigation buff it could be top tier. Otherwise prot war will stay at the top.

[lusty grotto]

someone isnt scrolled down

😄

[fierce urchin]

rip

yeh it leashed me

stupid discord >.>

[lusty grotto]

lol it has happened a lot to me this month

[wooden radish]

@ionic fern boop. here's a heart attack

[brittle owl]

someone moderate this man

[ionic fern]

Zzz.

Atleast you took a long break from it @wooden radish 😄

[dense flame]

New affix is a pulsing aoe mob yeah?

[ionic fern]

PRetty sure it's not yet 100% confirmed.

[sick sentinel]

Hi all, I hope you're all doing well^^, I was wonderin, there is apparently going to be a nerf to something related whit thunderclap in the near future, but I haven't been able to find out exactly what it was, anyone know?

My guildies have had a mixed output on it so I thought i'd ask here^^

[ionic fern]

@sick sentinel it's a damage reduction to Unstoppable Force.

[sick sentinel]

Much appreciated ❤

[exotic spoke]

Unstoppable force is nerfed from 100% to 50%.

The pins have more info

[ionic fern]

It won't be too much of a issue tho. A small overall damage decrease.

[sick sentinel]

aye,

[exotic spoke]

~6% single target and ~11% for non stupid aoe pulls

But dps will also go up with essences

[sick sentinel]

ahh right, they're trying to balance it lulw

[exotic spoke]

I mean, if you didn’t think our dps was getting tuned in some way I don’t know what to say.

Currently with Perfection our dps is going to still be solid imo .

[sick sentinel]

exactly

No I obviously expected it, I just expected it to be a bigger nerf LUL

we're still gonna out dps dps so it's aight LUL

[ionic fern]

Probably not.

[dense flame]

Is the transition of tanking higher m+ keys into tanking mythic raid challenging?

[ionic fern]

Our "big dick out dps" is coming from reaping right now.

[sick sentinel]

Perhaps,

[ionic fern]

Once reaping goes away we'll be more in line already just because of that.

[sick sentinel]

Right,

[dense flame]

Was asked to possibly start tanking. But only have heroic tanking as a baseline for raid. Seems like a silly question, but thought I’d ask.

[ionic fern]

No, not really @dense flame
As long as you know the fights (check www.tanknotes.tk if you need a refreshner or any of the YT guides) you'll be fine.

Also - COMMUNICATE with your co-tank AND healers.

[dense flame]

For sure, appreciate the information.

[unborn island]

We need to have good DPS, it's basically what we bring in terms of utility, most of the other tanks out-utility us, so having slightly better survivability and much better DPS was our niche. I honestly think as gear gets better and pulls get bigger that Gorefiend's will become a massive party DPS cooldown again

[exotic spoke]

Mwahi is right. The hardest thing I’ve had to do this tier is try not to murder dps fucking up mechanics

[unborn island]

I mean, nerf our DPS to shit and we will still be better than DH currently is, and probably equal to monk, without added monk utility (although perhaps easier to kill? IDK how monk mitigation works with magic)

[exotic spoke]

Spell reflect is a very nice niche that some people often forget

[unborn island]

thasstrue

I always forget to rationalise things like 'if multiple waterblasts are going off, you're probably not playing at a level where your class matters anyway 😃

[exotic spoke]

I like seeing 1/2 million pop up. Or several hundred thousand

[unborn island]

yeah, that's prob

pro

[exotic spoke]

@ionic fern what comp(s) do you usually run with your push group?

And actually, i guess that could go for anyone who is pushing high keys. Trying to figure out how to do certain instances / bosses at 20+

[ionic fern]

Rdruid/rogue/vdh/demo lock. Vdh also has rogue so sometimes we double rogue

Not vdh..havoc dh

[exotic spoke]

Fair, that’s close to mine. Rdruid, rogue, hdh, spriest

[oblique garnet]

lul demolock

just get a shaman

[ionic fern]

He's doing fine and hasn't stopped us yet

[exotic spoke]

More healthstones obv

[oblique garnet]

yeah but the thing is

what demo lock does

shaman can do better

[exotic spoke]

Ps what’s your demo locks name. I’d love to point a demo lock in my guild to him

So he can see how he can improve

Late, sometimes it’s the people and not the comp

[ionic fern]

Yeah,but..it's a game and we enjoy eachothers company while still doing adequately high keys

[exotic spoke]

I run with who I run, because of who they are. We can make a comp work decently

[oblique garnet]

ofc

[exotic spoke]

If they don’t like running as shaman and want spriest or demo then so be it

[ionic fern]

But jeah..sham does everything that demo does but better

[mortal brook]

want spriest

[sand egret]

Nah

[oblique garnet]

spriest is really good

[sand egret]

Shaman does everything Demo does but better

[oblique garnet]

blade let it go

cmon

[sand egret]

Nah

😃

[wary gyro]

But demo can bres

[oblique garnet]

well that is true

[sand egret]

So can a Shaman...if he dies

[oblique garnet]

just dont die and you dont need brez : )

[undone sun]

brez is a tank cd

[sand egret]

you're a tank cd

[undone sun]

thanks

[sand egret]

yw

[oblique garnet]

Thyme resub when?

[sand egret]

he's still on CD

[undone sun]

😅

[wary gyro]

I'm just saying that's something the demo does better than the shaman

[oblique garnet]

well yeah

[exotic spoke]

Brez is a Druids most mana and GCD efficient heal. Right @lusty bay

[oblique garnet]

and then shaman goes engi and can br

[undone sun]

https://i.imgur.com/XPbQIBe.png

[oblique garnet]

o

[undone sun]

actually a big mistake

[oblique garnet]

You lied

You have started playing again

Stormforged when?

[sand egret]

just to Pet battle

[undone sun]

🤣

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[stark fox]

For high M+ after you get to around 1500 haste, should I be stacking Mastery or Crit?

[exotic spoke]

Crit is very good for m+ because parry.

That said, haste is always good. I don’t understand why you think you should stop at ~1500

Also, mastery is a little less valuable becaus eof how much we get from triple BoM

[versed widget]

Yo, can anyone help me out with which stat I will gain most dps from, which I will gain most survivability from, and maybe what I should be aiming for? Atm just following icy veins stats of haste/Vers but I know from maiming resto druid that sometimes you want more dps over more surf. Eg mastery is best healing but haste is dope because it adds dps

Also if this info is written somewhere just direct me there

[wary gyro]

More stats is always better if same ilvl prefer haste

[versed widget]

Ok, so pre much just choose ilvl?

[wary gyro]

Yes

[versed widget]

Cheers, that seems easy

[wary gyro]

Outside of a couple trinkets you always want highest ilvl

[exotic spoke]

Pretty much. Maybe not for a ring but yes

[fickle urchin]

just downvalue mastery a bit, and versa a bit, and upvalue the other 2, if given a choice between equal ilvls

[exotic spoke]

Emphasis on maybe

I mean, you’ll have slightly different preferences in raids and m+

Haste is always going to be priority. Then crit for m+ usually and vers for raids usually

[fickle urchin]

mastery seems a bit meh, with 3x bom

[versed widget]

I’m exclusively playing m+ I should clarify

[wary gyro]

But targeting any specific stat beyond geming/enchanting for haste isnt really needed

[exotic spoke]

^^

Use your trinkets to fill in usually

[wary gyro]

All stats are pretty close in value for prot

[exotic spoke]

Truth

More stats > fewer slightly better stats

[wary gyro]

Which is why you just go for ilvl in almost all circumstances

[worthy dagger]

u dont need mastery at all when you have 3x BoM

[wary gyro]

Mastery doesnt just stop having value with x3 bom, its value isnt as high but it's still not going to be worth dropping ilvl to get rid of mastery

[lusty grotto]

correct

[worthy dagger]

im just saying mastery is not needed

[lusty grotto]

yeah that's too general for newbies and lurkers

[wary gyro]

^

[lusty grotto]

ieatpuppies is correct though

[worthy dagger]

ilvl > all true

[exotic spoke]

Yup, we’re all saying the same thing

Basically

[lusty grotto]

ya

like for example take the CoS trinket

[worthy dagger]

you dont get rage when you parry, correct?

[lusty grotto]

not extra no

just the default damage taken rage

iirc

[exotic spoke]

I like idol

[worthy dagger]

i like gore-crust + rezan

[lusty grotto]

not idol

the mastery one

i dont really like it

because its just meh

[worthy dagger]

and if i get another haste trink ill use it

[exotic spoke]

Ahh yeah

[wary gyro]

It's not really a tank trinket

[lusty grotto]

considering you could have a haste or crit trinket

or even something like idol or diamond

[exotic spoke]

@worthy dagger I may like it because I have the chance of killing people in m+

[worthy dagger]

@exotic spoke ok i agree with you and that makes it worth it

[lusty grotto]

its just an example of how mastery isn't that sought after with 3x BoM

also diminishing returns during avatar cause you will have a lot of it

[exotic spoke]

That and some weeks need a little extra survivability - well on some bosses.

[lusty grotto]

but mastery is still valuable on windows without avatar

[exotic spoke]

Wiped twice on UR 20 second boss last night

Both times with hero. Fuck grievous

[wary gyro]

As much as we wish otherwise you cant have avatar up 100% of the time

[lusty grotto]

riki i didnt watch that part

[wary gyro]

Yeah that sounds about right for this week

[lusty grotto]

i think i stopped watching when you were setting up the double shroud

which is not hard as long as you do both saps correctly

[exotic spoke]

yeah, we were testing it - brand new with rogue and opted for just invis pot

[lusty grotto]

so weird

[exotic spoke]

Fucked the boss - not invis

[lusty grotto]

most pugs know about it

[exotic spoke]

He literally just swapped to rogue from life long mage last week

[lusty grotto]

so i guess your group has never pugged it?

with a rogue i mean

[exotic spoke]

I don’t pug. I think only smashed and maybe shad (the DH) pug

[lusty grotto]

i see

[wary gyro]

Why pug if you have a set team

[lusty grotto]

yeah but then you lose out on stuff that is very common place outside of your team's bubble

like double sap shroud at the start of ToS

[wary gyro]

Yeah but you dont have to deal with pugging so it evens out

[lusty grotto]

true enough

[exotic spoke]

We thought we could time ToS. But two people died on first boss due to stupid shit

Like, I didn’t lose aggro, and melee lizard person fucking meleed the rogue

[lusty grotto]

the rogue?

oh

[exotic spoke]

Yes

[lusty grotto]

wait what

[exotic spoke]

Yes exactly

[lusty grotto]

are you sure he just didnt die out of shield?

[exotic spoke]

No, death recap shows melee

[lusty grotto]

🤔

and this wasn't at the start?

that's def weird

[exotic spoke]

We didn’t know what caused it. Just said fuck it - no point in trying, and went to UR

No issues other than the two wipes on second boss.

Grievous with tantrum is a bitch

[lusty grotto]

ya you need to plan defensives and tranq there

[exotic spoke]

We had three planned

And then the fourth ducked us

Oh well, more practice. More tips / tricks we learn the better we’ll be come

[zinc spoke]

Do you stream?

[signal plover]

Ooolala more jaina nerfs mid prog for us.