but keep in mind
#protection
brittle owl
ilvl>all
for survival
you can drop ilvlon rings, maybe
(this is true for most tanks)
weary thorn
I just go ilvl>haste>everything else
wooden radish
@ionic fern i found this screenshot of a prot warrior logs. does this mean that leech is bis? how much leech should i aim for? is it worth dropping ilvl for leech? thanks i'll hang up and listen. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/448862929564205078/568169723964030989/unknown.png
chilly brook
I’m not trolling
weary thorn
you also need to know leech cap
brittle owl
this man knows whats up
chilly brook
Just drop ilvl for leech man
drowsy salmon
which is the level of haste that is a must to reach?
cinder pasture
As much as you can get
brittle owl
read the faq, there are no caps, there are no minimums
cinder pasture
(Without dropping ilvl)
chilly brook
^
weary thorn
stack leech always - maelkenar 2019
drowsy salmon
ok got it, i'm doing bit a mess of all informations within discord faq, guide, icy veins etc
chilly brook
All trolling aside #268491842637660160 should answer all of your questions
And icy veins should be in line with this discord
As they’re both managed by Marok
ionic fern
Hello dear friends.
THat screenshot seems to be of someone just memeing around with x3BS and full leech items/trinkets.
Please do not sacrifice any ilvl for leech cause it's not worth it.
If you have a similar ilvl item with leech on it then sure, use it. Otherwise please do not.
Thank you for your time.
@wooden radish
brittle owl
u're no fun
chilly brook
Lol
brittle owl
but why
weary thorn
because without pins people will take yall seriously
chilly brook
@drowsy salmon any question that either of those references don’t cover feel free to ask in here
wooden radish
by memeing he means, its his screenshot
brittle owl
so warriors do have self sustain, in the form of food 🤔
lime mantle
Leech is BIS for arms because then you can pretend to be a bad BDK when people ask you why you deal 0(zero) damage.
Prove me wrong.
chilly brook
Lmao danie
weary thorn
bdk is the bis Arms class
brittle owl
bdk guide for warriors when
inner moth
its dame time
drowsy salmon
@chilly brook thank you, i don't want to bother too much if i can read faq or guide but sometimes there are to many questions above all if you play more than a char :p
chilly brook
👌🏻
lime mantle
I will bully arms a third of what I will bully VDH. Maybe they’ll both be good next patch and I’ll have a reason to flee in shame to my trollish cave-bridge.
brittle owl
every spec looks good with the 8.2 neck
weary thorn
but even then, fury looks better too so it will still probably be the worse spec of the two
brittle owl
but vision of perfection is completely busted
so there'll be alot of changes until it goes live
fresh valley
i want to bladestorm indefinitely in dungeons
weary thorn
beyblade spec
brittle owl
name your char
chilly brook
Meh Vengeance still looks bad xD
brittle owl
baeblade
weary thorn
vengeance is a worse tank than havok dont @ me
chilly brook
Actually mad that they can’t make that class right
weary thorn
honestly, they could just make fiery brand better like how it used to be in legion, put it on a lower cd and make spikes have more uptime. Just with that it would be more viable
then address the terrible shearing orb mechanic
or at least, it maxing at 5 or keep them from triggering when walking over/near them
umbral forge
@unique echo Nightborne Male
weary thorn
make it manual so you can control useage
weary thorn
the changes wouldn't be that difficult. and 8.2 would be a good time to tune it
i mean its already shit, the most you can do is make it better
chilly brook
For real though spikes uptime is pretty big tbh
austere oar
Problem is dh needs a overhaul
weary thorn
absolutely
austere oar
Their resource is trash and useless
chilly brook
DH was designed to revolve around their artifact
weary thorn
or hell, give them a backup mechanic similar to ip if they dont want to tune demon spikes
austere oar
Their side resource (orbs) in clunky
weary thorn
right now its a mishmash of shitty spikes and poor bdk healing
chilly brook
Just another example of how removing systems that classes were designed around hurts them in the long run
austere oar
Take bdk, subtract the healing, add useless utility, subtract tankiness, get dh
lime mantle
And rotational movement abilities.
That triggers me to no end.
Also add actual movement
chilly brook
cough talent trees cough
I mean I don’t mind using my movement as DPS
It’s a decision
austere oar
Yeah movement, still mostly useless in raids
chilly brook
If I need to save it for something I think ahead and sacrifice some damage
weary thorn
I'd be okay with VDH not being the top raid tank, but still being viable in m+
lime mantle
VDh are very much designed as an m+ tank
austere oar
When you see that havoc has better cds than vengeance
weary thorn
^
that right there
blade dance is fucking silly with what it can mitigate
not to mention blur, darkness, netherwalk
lime mantle
Even the personals are better 😂
weary thorn
that jump in the air bullshit you see in pvp
austere oar
Well you'd be able to cheese any mechanic with blade dance
Vdh would be the most broken shit
austere oar
It kinda does
weary thorn
ok
so put bladedance on a 25 sec cd like spell reflect
because its just as silly what war can do to some bosses with it
looking at you assperix
austere oar
The changes they are getting are really good though in 8.2
chilly brook
Every tank but vengeance lmao
austere oar
With the essence system
weary thorn
are they getting mitigation with decent uptime in 8.2?
otherwise I wont look at my vdh
austere oar
Vdh will be far from trash
lime mantle
Vdh’s utilities means their broken thing would be absurdly Raid breaking, like for example needing to silence in aoe and infinite amount of targets or a ground placed delayed grasp
austere oar
They get several buffs to their passive mitig
chilly brook
Last I checked it wasn’t anything that profound
austere oar
And a buff to meta
weary thorn
vdh's passive mit isnt the problem, nor is meta
its their lack of any decent active mitigation in the current setting
chilly brook
I mean the passive mit kinda is
austere oar
Vdh under DS is good
lime mantle
@weary thorn so far no. Seems shear now permanently gives 2 orbs, one more during meta but I think that is a typo.
austere oar
Vdh without DS is complete trash
chilly brook
Spikes performs well
austere oar
Meta is the worst CD in the game
chilly brook
Without spikes they die real quick
weary thorn
I agree griff, thats why spikes is my main problem
chilly brook
Yea
weary thorn
if the primary mitigation isnt addressed then I don't think they will be saved
chilly brook
I’d just say buff spikes uptime instead of passive mitigation
lime mantle
Give them baseline anger management or gluttony or demonic hunger 🤔
chilly brook
^
lime mantle
Or like half the talent fucking tree.
chilly brook
Truth
austere oar
Essecnce in 8.2
lime mantle
Because some options are so bad even as baseline they’d make no difference
lime mantle
soul rending and gluttony anyone?
austere oar
Double the orb gen under meta + pain generation + chance on pain spent to be instantly healed
lime mantle
Don’t take the current essences seriously or assume they’ll go live
weary thorn
they are also broke af
lime mantle
Also random chances to proc tank CDs will not fix ANYTHING about vdh, they lack reliable CDs
lime mantle
They don’t
weary thorn
avatar with 45% uptime? what a yoke
lime mantle
Release vision was perfect
austere oar
Essence wont fix dh but will make them better over the course of a fight
lime mantle
It was basically the wow version of taking steroids without the side effects
chilly brook
Hey but @weary thorn remember Sloot said we’re getting dumpstered in the DPS department!
weary thorn
that 6% ST dps nerf?
lucid bough
he's a salty boy
austere oar
But I dont get why they added the artefact weapons system to customize each class then delete everything with nothing and return, they threw most classes with this in the first place
chilly brook
Just like rogues lmao
@austere oar because they make changes based on dev “problems” not what actually makes a good design
That’s why we no longer have talent trees
weary thorn
So while VDH may be slightly improved by essences, can we just take a moment to realize that every other tank will just get that much better
severe owl
it was too complicated for them to manage so they pruned everything
weary thorn
and the meta will likely remain the same
sick sentinel
They believed the weapons were too frontloaded. As in we didn't do anything for a yeara nd a half afterwards. But some one above was super right. It's the classes themselves that have become so lackluster that rely on these systems in order to feel good
chilly brook
Or (insert fun mechanic here)
austere oar
Well what I was most excited about each expansion was the time before the release where you would check each day how your class will be designed in the future
chilly brook
@sick sentinel it’s a symptom of class pruning and removing the systems (talent trees) that they were built on
weary thorn
I firmly believe its because we lost customization with talent trees
chilly brook
^
weary thorn
this shit is so bland now
the only way to be innovative is to meme build with az traits
and then do what, basically the same shit
with small % differences
chilly brook
It’s because they fundamentally changed the game on a base level but never relayed the foundation
vocal skiff
I hated gear swapping in m+, but I am aware this is a topic of controversy lol
austere oar
I remember MoP > WoD was the shit for me
chilly brook
They undermined the foundation of classes and replaced the foundation with toothpicks which break every expansion
weary thorn
Like, i super miss stance dancing as a warrior
sick sentinel
I enjoyed the Deepshades post on Reddit. Asking why he was sacrificing his only movement CD for a decent defensive on the same tier of talents as a lock. They need to address a lot of core before these systems
zenith leaf
I have issues with aggro in mythic keys anyone else have this issue? I'm new to prot tanking
vocal skiff
clap away
chilly brook
Have you read the guide?
weary thorn
prot warriors generate more aggro than pretty much every tank
lime mantle
@weary thorn welcome to the tanking truth; some tanks are just fucking garbage, more than some tanks are insultingly good.
This is true 90% of the time, see release legion BDK.
weary thorn
I played bdk in legion for m+
sick sentinel
omg blood was so terribad
weary thorn
exclusively
open bluff
weary thorn
now my bdk is gathering dust
chilly brook
If you’re struggling to hold aggro you’re one of three things. 1) not talented correctly 2) aren’t playing properly or 3) severely under-geared compared to your DPS @zenith leaf
And they’re not mutually exclusive either
zenith leaf
Yeah I do believe gear is a factor
weary thorn
what is your ilvl compared to your party?
zenith leaf
375 vs 395+
chilly brook
No that’s not a factor
chilly brook
You should be pulling 20k+ on adds at 375 on a small pack
wild sandal
I got the new trinket from last boss in cos, but the guide on the pin says to use it correctly to get the max effect, don't I just press it when I need the heal or is there another way around it
weary thorn
the correct way is to wait until your party mates are super low on hp
austere oar
When you need the heal and have the maximum of targets around you
weary thorn
then you use it
lucid bough
mini lay on hands mate, press it
chilly brook
Are you using avatar on CD? Using thunder clap every other global inside of avatar? @zenith leaf
austere oar
Remember packing in your group is a priority
sand condor
i saw someone say leech
ornate wagon
leech is the meta yeah?
austere oar
MonkaS
weary thorn
I tell you what. reading weeb mw discord is less frustrating than prot leech
zenith leaf
I have been using tc
chilly brook
Are you using avatar every pull?
chilly brook
Are you properly talented?
sand condor
always use avatar
red wedge
I just signed on, and dont feel like reading back a ton.. What's the issue we're discussing a solution for? Threat? Tank dps vs DPS?
brittle owl
this is the main strength of warrior, being able to use cd's on every pack
zenith leaf
Well I believe that may be it I'm not popping avatar as much as I should
brittle owl
non stop
zenith leaf
Thanks for the help
weary thorn
racial, we've been suitably off topic a bit. Discussed the finer uses and implications of leech builds, and answered a few questions
red wedge
eeee leech. lol
brittle owl
i like this leech meme
chilly brook
What kind of damage are you doing on trash? @zenith leaf
brittle owl
it's like the haste cap meme for prot pallies
brittle owl
lightee would prob stack leech if he played warrior
so as to require less healer attention
zenith leaf
Would say around 10k
brittle owl
you should be doing way more on trash
chilly brook
Yea that’s definitely low
chilly brook
Even on one pack it’s still low
brittle owl
even then with avatar it should be around 20-30k
chilly brook
Should be about double that at his ilvl
red wedge
TRue.
chilly brook
By double I mean the 10k
red wedge
oh man.. My keys group was fkin around in temple last night. We pulled the entire orb room with reaping. When I looked, I was at 200k, and our rogue was at 330k
but only for like a second or two.
😛
weary thorn
one time i did that on a necrotic week
red wedge
This week's affix are so fun
weary thorn
only lasted a second or two tho
brittle owl
this week is pog
red wedge
Not having to worry about killing mobs.
brittle owl
giga push week
brittle owl
yuge pulls
weary thorn
oh yea, this week is io week
brittle owl
no this is fun week
red wedge
werent there a few world firsts last night?
I love watching those runs. I'm nowhere near even half that skill level, but it's fun to watch 😃
brittle owl
it's more of a case of having similarily skilled people with which to push/learn together
skill only affects the time you spend practicing/learning
weary thorn
Cabal down
weary thorn
yep, pieces
this is why I dont like that raids are released at vastly different times in different regions
asia still doesnt unlock for 7 hours
and eu already has cabal down
and once again limit had nearly a day lead and squandered is learning from it
brittle owl
i mean, it would be fair to say that speed would be the metric to compare atm
if you clear the raid faster
it's technically 1st
brittle owl
it's an entire discussion point tbh
lime mantle
I think the best tactic is to pretend to be from Eu to make NA salty.
brittle owl
but simultaneous release has been done
lime mantle
And the other way around
brittle owl
it may be done in the future, but they need to step up their operations game for it
weary thorn
I mean, if they want to make a show of it outside of method doing their own thing
then yes, it needs to be a simul release
which they could do a race style showing
for big raids
just like mdi
chilly brook
@brittle owl oh yea well I hit my first 130k at 378 in Uldir 🙃
sick sentinel
If blizzard cared they would have done something by now
weary thorn
I dont know
brittle owl
pfffsh showoff @chilly brook
chilly brook
xD
brittle owl
i had three traits kappa
weary thorn
incompetence and caring are not mutually exclusive
you can care, but be shit at something
chilly brook
We didn’t even have BoM then!
weary thorn
look at the vdh, they want to tank, but they suck at it
brittle owl
neither did i 😂
sick sentinel
Blizzard is not incompetent when it comes to supporting a raid style tourment, they've been doing it for for arenas for so long now
drowsy salmon
is worth blacksmithing for bop gear? or is better go for another prof?
sick sentinel
So that's out of the question
weary thorn
Eh, I think this last raid race that method put on was pretty well done. I wouldnt be surprised if blizz took notice of the viewers they brought in
its free market research for them
sick sentinel
And with mdi, believing it's incompetence only shows ur not really looking at what blizzard has been doing
Caring is really the issue, and when raiding has been a thing for much longer than any aspect of pvp u can tell they don't give a fuck
brittle owl
simultaneous release is more difficult than you probably imagine
weary thorn
I didnt say that mdi was one way or the other. But blizzard does have some incompetence in their back pack
and to say they dont is being disingenuous
brittle owl
and it's not just a thing of want
sick sentinel
Oh I'm not talking about the sim releasing but not having a tourment for raiding?
Yet we have one for arenas and now mdi
chilly brook
Pvp is a fairly intuitive thing to have a tournament for
brittle owl
poc for competitive raiding has been done by method in uldir
chilly brook
Mdi is a little less of a logistical nightmare
brittle owl
until now there wasn't anything similar
brittle owl
method did the poc
chilly brook
I know they did
weary thorn
maybe. Depends on if the guilds have sponsors willing to help
brittle owl
i wouldnt be surprised to see something blizzard organized in 9.0
weary thorn
it would be a business venture and therefore something that might interest them
chilly brook
But from a company standpoint think about actually setting it up
It could last a week
It could last three weeks
weary thorn
that would, or could, defray some of the logistical cost
chilly brook
It could last a month
brittle owl
it would skew encounter design to be sure
chilly brook
There’s a lot of uncertainty surrounding it
sick sentinel
Let's be honest, organization of any tourney is going to be a fucking wild ride
weary thorn
I'm not saying put them all up in hotels and underground redbull bunkers.
chilly brook
Yes
weary thorn
but you could still get pov's and casters together
brittle owl
small teams as well
chilly brook
And with the mdi it’s a different beast
brittle owl
not groups of 20
chilly brook
You’re racing against time not racing to the first kill
sick sentinel
Ur not wrong but the same issue ud face with 20 people u can face with 5
chilly brook
Sure but it’s more likely to run into roster issues with 20 people
brittle owl
for wf they shouldn't take a tournament approach with WF
sand condor
what is a good secondary profesion
chilly brook
Especially when the dates and times are so volatile
weary thorn
sure, but thats part of the risk with the race
your guild would face that regardless
brittle owl
tru
sick sentinel
Even with mdi how often do teams have a 6 or 7
chilly brook
Method can afford to do it because they have sponsors and their sponsors and the fact that a lot of them stream for a living now can offset the volatile nature of it
sick sentinel
Just in case
weary thorn
griff I agree that it wouldn't be easy
but I could still see it being tried
even if blizz doesnt organzie it
we may see a method stream vs another big guild next time round
chilly brook
It can certainly be tried
sick sentinel
Blizzard probably wants to see how engaged people are with these WF races, so they are looking at whatever data they can get it to see the cost
weary thorn
and sure you could format it to be based on time instead of world first as a different type of race
brittle owl
theres multiple ways to go around doing it
weary thorn
@sick sentinel thats what I mentioned earlier, this is all free market research to them
especially with the availability of streaming metrics
chilly brook
It’s just a huge logistical nightmare compared to the other tournament styles is all I’m saying which explains why Blizz hasn’t done it @weary thorn
sick sentinel
How do u do qualifiers
weary thorn
I mean shit, let method and whoever do World First, then a month later Blizz could host a worlds fastest
let W1st get sorted
on its own
thats another option
something different
speed running meets wow raiding at the highest level
give them all a month to refine
sick sentinel
Still who qualifies for that
weary thorn
I mean, there are ways to manage it
chilly brook
Thats another nightmare
sick sentinel
That would take a smarter man then me then
weary thorn
but I'm gonna start charging a consultant fee if you want me to figure this all out lmao
I get paid for this at work man, not for wow. I'm just having fun spitballing
sick sentinel
I think we all are because of how fun it is to watch it
sick sentinel
Hogger only
weary thorn
and time trial it
brittle owl
dunno how entertaining speedrunning raids would be
weary thorn
I mean, GDQ gets a boatload of viewers
chilly brook
It could definitely be entertaining
brittle owl
part of the challenge and fun of pushing high end mythic prog
weary thorn
why not see what wow does?
sick sentinel
Kill ur teammates to beat the boss in 2 minutes on mythic
sick sentinel
New strat
weary thorn
if it had 0 watchability, then why does MDI have any viewership?
because that is what you just described
brittle owl
not really
weary thorn
speedrunning dungeons at the highest level
chilly brook
It is tho
weary thorn
with meta loadouts
brittle owl
yes but with trash
weary thorn
I disagree maelk
chilly brook
Or new ideas
weary thorn
but thats fine
chilly brook
The trash is always the same trash tho
brittle owl
trash and affixes are the main differentiating factor
if they add mythic + to raids...well hello
weary thorn
doing the mythic mechanics of cos in the fastest possible time with how hectic it is, and the risks some guilds may take... that would be interesting to me
chilly brook
Adding m+ to raids lmao
brittle owl
yeah but thats just 1 raid
weary thorn
I mean it cant be as bad as some of the 15 wipe starts in mdi we saw last weekend
chilly brook
Good way to destroy guilds tbh
brittle owl
it would expand the pve esport scene tho
weary thorn
sure its just 1 raid, I had to use an example that made sense
chilly brook
Can anything that’s played against a computer be a sport?
weary thorn
these raids are more in line with how difficult mythic + is compared to last xpac
chilly brook
Sports kinda in their definition require a person or persons competing against another person or persons
brittle owl
well yeah
think about the oldest esport ever
tetris lmao
theres still world cups
brittle owl
mythic plus is infinetely scaling, with added layers of difficulty, so it's competitive
weary thorn
if mythic raiding wasn't competitive, there wouldnt even be a race tho
weary thorn
because its never been thought of outside of wf tho
thats the point
innovation is the name of the game my man
brittle owl
sure thing
chilly brook
You can have a competition and not have it be a sport 🙃
weary thorn
sure, like a time/speed aspect for starters. Thats the easiest way to trial it
brittle owl
@chilly brook competition basically qualifies it as a 'sport'
old zephyr
Athlétisme is a sport
Were you just try to be better than someone not just fight them
chilly brook
You and I can compete who can write a script for a movie fastest it doesn’t make it a sport 😉
brittle owl
yes it does
cause you compete against other people
i mean
it totally depends on wether
you define sports as requiring physical activity or not
weary thorn
having the will to live each morning is the millenial sport
chilly brook
Lmao
chilly brook
Everyone does
brittle owl
fair
chilly brook
There’s very little people in modern day that eat healthily
weary thorn
I eat primarily salad these days because red meat has started to give me heartburn. makes me sadder than josh leaving pieces only to not down cabal first
umbral forge
oof
brittle owl
major oof
chilly brook
Even eating what most people consider “healthy” is actually not all that healthy because it’s not satisfying all your body’s needs
chilly brook
Eat paleo 🙃
chilly brook
Paleo isn’t bad tho
brittle owl
consult your doctor before going on extreme diets kids
chilly brook
It’s not extreme
brittle owl
be it keto,intermittent fasting, paleo or whatever
umbral forge
Boil a potato, eat it with broccoli, chicken and olives.
Bam all your needs met for the day
weary thorn
yea, but keto has apparently been showing some negative long term returns
chilly brook
It’s literally just eating what you would be eating naturally
brittle owl
m8 there's a few millenias
chilly brook
Aka meat, vegetables fruit
weary thorn
but muh eVoLuTiOn
chilly brook
If you’re gonna eat broccoli eat it raw 😉
chilly brook
There’s still good science out there that shows that paleo has a ton of benefits with pretty much no drawbacks
chilly brook
@brittle owl because when you cook broccoli you lose a lot of the enzymes
brittle owl
but just because there are papers
chilly brook
And other nutrients
brittle owl
doesn't mean you have read and ubderstood it
chilly brook
I did
chilly brook
I literally read an entire book behind paleo
brittle owl
it's your health
weary thorn
was it peer reviewed tho?
brittle owl
talk to someone who did 10+ years of school on the human body
brittle owl
he has more discerning power than you ever will have
weary thorn
is your cardiologist actually 3 midgets in a trench coat?
brittle owl
if your doc is ok then go for it 🤷
chilly brook
No lmao
weary thorn
I feel reassured
chilly brook
My doc had no problems with it and in fact encouraged it
lime mantle
Oh shit we talking about fitness?
brittle owl
that was my main point, physicians should be taken into the equation
chilly brook
There’s nothing inherently bad about paleo though....
weary thorn
speaking of fitness. I need to focus on fitnthis lunch in my mouth
brittle owl
when going on extreme diets ( by extreme i mean anything that isn't habitual to what you have eaten since you were born)
lime mantle
Who here lifts some weights to get a pump and be huge so you have irl avatar when you avatar in game?
weary thorn
I'm in my cutting phase
chilly brook
That’s like telling someone who has a gluten allergy to not go on an “extreme” diet because they didn’t know gluten was causing the issue before they found out
weary thorn
so no pump for me right now
brittle owl
i can basically grong trinket irl
weary thorn
so not bis?
brittle owl
@chilly brook that's exactly what i'm saying. you get checked before you reach the conclusion that it was gluten
you don't just decide you have gluten allergy
you consult a physician
ppl don't talk to doctors enough is my point
chilly brook
Yes but you don’t need to consult a physician about a dietary change as long as you’re still getting your dietary needs
lime mantle
Calisthenics is for DH.
chilly brook
Just because you’ve done one thing your whole life doesn’t mean that there isn’t an alternative way to do it that can have no negative impact
brittle owl
i mean, true
but there is the risk thst you can adopt an even worse lifestyle
because you werent aware of underlying issues that didnt surface
until you changed something
chilly brook
And you most likely won’t until you make a change period
brittle owl
ethnicity and where you are from/where your ancestors are from play a major role in your nutrition for instance (from an alergological perspective),
chilly brook
Talking to a physician on that front won’t make a difference for most cases
brittle owl
i mean, fair enough
chilly brook
Hard to address something if you don’t know it’s wrong in the first place 🙃
chilly brook
That being said I’m largely behind you when you say fad diets are bad
old zephyr
HM adds on cabal are still stunable right ?
chilly brook
But part of me doing paleo was because it was a more elegant longterm lifestyle solution not a “follow this plan” type deal
I’d rather listen to my body not have to count this or that etc.
No clue 4X
wary lantern
finally a mass pull week?
weary veldt
400+socket crit vers or 410 crit vers
weary thorn
which is more stats
chilly brook
So there’s your answer
chilly brook
^^^
brittle owl
you kinda get a feel about 'plans' after a few months🤷 and you can get good at estimating calories tbh
but its subjective
weary veldt
the 400 is +22 stats but -41 stam
brittle owl
stamina isn't a 'good' stat
brittle owl
the reason ppl say ilvl > all for tanks is because of mainstat+armor
weary veldt
but no mainstat
brittle owl
stamina is good until it's worthless
weary thorn
if stam is worthless, youre dead tho
brittle owl
which is to say its good when you're undergeared
weary thorn
thats when it becomes worthless
brittle owl
or just gas out quickly after a few pumps
weary thorn
sure, but I'd still say general rule is more stats is better for us. Now can you min-max, sure you can. But thats what simming is for
chilly brook
The guide disagrees with you on it not being a “good stat”
And by that extension Marok disagrees 🙃
chilly brook
I mean not really
weary thorn
last sentence maelk, says the point here is that stamina is a good stat...
chilly brook
It just adds to your EHP
weary thorn
so I'm gonna weigh stam with the other stats
chilly brook
You shouldn’t stack it but you don’t disregard it
brittle owl
yeah, pm
weary thorn
its a part of a balanced stat weight
brittle owl
but the point of comparison
is only on rings
all other slots have mainstat and armor
and they outweigh the value when youre making a decision
chilly brook
But it’s still to be taken into consideration as per the guide
That’s not what the guide says at all
brittle owl
i see stamina as being tied to ilvl tbh 🤷 mechanically its an indicator of ilvl
outsiddof consumables ofc
weary thorn
Even looking at rings individually, stam is a stat to be weighed. Now if you are strictly simming for dps, then sure its valuation would be lower
weary thorn
but since you cannot sim for survival, you would weigh that stam accordingly as a stat to be weighed
and the easiest way to do that, is to roll it up wholistically with other stats
brittle owl
my point is that stamina is way down the comparison table
to be an actual factor in decision making
you'll make the decision based on something else most likely
before stamina becomes the decisive factor
weary thorn
the entire number of stats, which I include stamina into, is my deciding factor
brittle owl
99% of cases
weary thorn
so you are partially right, its not the decisive factor, but it is a factor for me
chilly brook
You can make an argument that stamina isn’t as important but at that point you also have to quantify if the +22 stats is worth the almost double loss in stam
Defensively
sick sentinel
stamina is worth it for things like victory rush healing for a % of your health
chilly brook
Which I doubt it is
sick sentinel
if you have more health you will heal for more
weary thorn
ignore the pain of your mistake griff
sick sentinel
I would drop 10 ilvls for a socket on a ring
chilly brook
But it is useful for last stand 🙃
brittle owl
i disagree to be perfectly honest. outside of rings, stamina could just be an invisible stat
mechanically
it's literally tied to ilvl
chilly brook
I mean so are all stats tbh
brittle owl
so is mainstat
sick sentinel
if you are doing actual hard content there is stuff that can do your health in damage or so
like, you actually need to use stam flask for example
brittle owl
edgecases exist yeah
sick sentinel
it's called "pushing"
brittle owl
thats the point where stamina is super valuable
when pushing content while undergeared
sick sentinel
my point is
brittle owl
grossly
sick sentinel
drop 10 ilvls for a socket on a ring
weary thorn
wait wait. Making the case that you dont count something because its basically ilvl, would reduce the entire argument down to just being an ilvl argument
sick sentinel
but don't do more
brittle owl
just mainstat and stamina, since they are the same whenever
secondaries have a larger pool and are budgeted differently
and there is a case of comparison
sick sentinel
I have posted this multiple times and nobody has disagreed with it yet so here is part from my copypasta thing
5 ilvls on gear,
10 ilvls on rings and trinkets,
0 ilvls on weapons and shields```I gotta make a business call, I'll join back in if this is still going
neon tangle
I’d also argue that stamina has diminishing returns, while secondaries tend to scale on each other
weary thorn
cheers ffellas
sick sentinel
eh, crit has DR as well
neon tangle
At high avg ilvls I’d do more than 10 ilvls for a ring
chilly brook
I’d argue that stamina has less DR than your other stats
The higher your health pool while also keeping reasonably the same or slightly better mitigation is just higher EHP period
sick sentinel
@neon tangle yeah but this is current season
next season where mythic gear will be 445 things might be different
anyway
for now
@weary veldt should use the 400+s over the 410 IMO
neon tangle
We give people the advice all the time to evaluate what you’re doing and either pull more or go for more dmg, my health never dips low enough to matter in m raids, so I don’t care about more stam
chilly brook
I’m talking purely defensively
sick sentinel
I go with the best of both worlds option
chilly brook
If people want to go more offensive then that’s a balance they need to strike based off their group
sick sentinel
I don't go for pure "minimize damage taken" or "maximize damage done"
chilly brook
There’s no one size fits all for balancing within your own group
sick sentinel
I go with the best "least damage taken while doing as much damage as possible"
red wedge
I've always considered the advice here to be solid ideas to improve my gameplay with. Not "you have to do this or you're just going to fail"
neon tangle
Stam either helps you survive or it doesn’t, I’d evaluate whether that Extra EHP is worth sacrificing that extra dps/mitigation
red wedge
Ya
neon tangle
Which is why I say it has DR, there aren’t a lot of scary fights at 415 avg ilvl
umbral forge
@sick sentinel I'm a Norn actually.
neon tangle
I’d rather have more mitigation/dmg
sick sentinel
@umbral forge you're special, that's different
umbral forge
Different?
neon tangle
High keys, sure, EHP matters in 25s
sick sentinel
if you know what to do, you can just go for pure damage
neon tangle
That’s why I go for pure dmg 😛
weary thorn
that also relies on your group knowing what to do
heavily
not just you as a warrior
sick sentinel
like, unless it's a the mage on jadefire
sand condor
look at it
sick sentinel
or the bleed on conclave
sand condor
it has leech and thus it is bis
umbral forge
vic
sand condor
but but but
weary thorn
vic is like that crenshaw guy in log-review/fury
neon tangle
@sick sentinel my other tank just afk for the end of our last jadefire kill, I think I ended with 27 stacks
sick sentinel
lol
umbral forge
Vic is just a confused Vengeance Demon Hunter
neon tangle
Feels good being a DK sometimes
umbral forge
yes
sand condor
good point
umbral forge
got another health potion vic lol
red wedge
ugh.. I should level alts, but.. I just hate farming gear.
neon tangle
Want to tank for my bad rogue?
umbral forge
I can roll again after I've seen my movie
sick sentinel
I mean, I play havoc, but I know how to vengence
weary thorn
kaege you're gonna have to wait for Classic Wow to roll back up to Legion for those buffs
sick sentinel
I actually
red wedge
I can barely even get myself to look for fury azerite.
red wedge
Yea.. I used to be like that. I can't stand it anymore.
red wedge
Yea. I do miss that feeling, too 😃
I was debating working on my lock, because my guild is where warlocks go to die.
sick sentinel
I am going to level my druid to lvl 91 and then wait for timewalking to get him to 120
he's 50 rn
red wedge
Think we've gone through 7 or 8 warlocks in the past two months. All of them have switched to casual keys or quit entirely.
weary thorn
I need to gear up my spriest so I can do mythic cabal. Pieces comp had 3 melee in it. 1 dh for magic buff, 2 tanks
sick sentinel
everybody's comp has 3 melee in it
limit was actually debating of getting a VDH
so they can cut the dps DH
weary thorn
yea but only they have the succ on it
at this point NA should just go full melee so they have an solid excuse for not getting w1st
weary thorn
imagine if NA did get w1st with melee. Hell would freeze over, blizzard would release a good expansion. People would enjoy getting gear that isnt randomly generated every. damn. time.
red wedge
oh man.. if they got rid of forging. /drool
granite jolt
Do you guys also hate Siphoning?
red wedge
I'd actually enjoy gearing alts again
granite jolt
the enchant
red wedge
instead of that "i probably shouldn't spec'd BLAH for the roll up chance"
weary thorn
its good on a meme leech build @granite jolt
granite jolt
What does that mean?
weary thorn
that it is effective if you build leech
which you shouldnt do, but if you did
it would synergize
umbral forge
absolutely do not ever even consider building a meme leech build unless you're high on mushrooms and are going to tank Normal while hating your healers or doing keys sub 10
red wedge
We had a guildie hit 120 on a rogue alt. Got a free 10 carry from guildies, and then next day got a fkin 425 socketed spyglass from his cache. Think most of our main rogues still only have 400s or 405s.
red wedge
God, we have a rogue that's been raiding with us since BFD start, and does keys every week and he's still rocking two 400s.
weary thorn
the best tanker in the world is the best tanker in the world by that metric
red wedge
Forging makes me hate gearing.
umbral forge
I don't use leech or siphoning
brittle owl
ok then
bea my luck
first month of s2
on 2 characters
only bracers
5 weeks in a row
weary thorn
do you eat like the Ronnie Coleman because he is one of the strongest men in the world @granite jolt ?
brittle owl
fukken bracers
weary thorn
because you want to be strong like him
red wedge
Gear in this game can be so depressing. ;p
granite jolt
If someone is better then me is doing something I take notice and instead of calling it a meme
brittle owl
410 plumage no socket
granite jolt
but maybe im crazy
weary thorn
but the context you are missing, is that they might be memeing or running a comp that completely does not relate to you
thats why it is considered a meme by the larger community here
sick sentinel
Siphoning is never good
old night
got rastakhan down on monday
sick sentinel
How does getting more leech make leech better
old night
on to mekkaiwannakillmyselftorque
weary thorn
hey man, I dont come into your padded cell and tell you how to lick your windows do I?
sick sentinel
You don't sacrifice actual and useful stats for it
sick sentinel
No
granite jolt
I had asked about Siphoning apologies
exotic spoke
Where is Leechip when you need him
sick sentinel
We were talking about how much eyir sucks
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @sick sentinel
weary thorn
That bot is savage
umbral forge
I wish I knew how well eyir sucks, I wouldn't mind trying a robot a day..
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @umbral forge
umbral forge
Oh my you're offering?
ornate wagon
I wonder if that is just searching for the string or both words individually
sucks eyir
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @ornate wagon
ornate wagon
welp that answers that
umbral forge
so if I imply something sucks then include eyir in the same sentence?
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @umbral forge
umbral forge
I'm now curious if it happens if we separate the commands, let's say I write sucks here.
Then I continue my post dividing it up for ease of reading.
Add a few mentions of leech and Thunderclap, and of course remind people I play a Nightborne Male Warrior.
Then lastly I include Eyir.
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @umbral forge
weary thorn
It's an apology from blizzard
granite jolt
Thats a big succ trinket
weary thorn
Instead of building leech just grind that out
weary thorn
sounds like there is a steamy story behind this
weary thorn
the beverage or the party favor?
weary thorn
ah a little bit of the wink wink nudge nudge I see
sick sentinel
It's much more lackluster then u hope for
dim spindle
Hello guys ! Been following the discord for a while and finally got passed 1k rio last week thanks to you! But today being crappy wednesday, Blizzard decided to gift me with a nice Big Red Button (410)... Still, I think my best option is to go that one + Ritual Feather of Unng Ak 390 with socket but wanted your insights. I have: the two aforementioned, 385 Diamond, 385 Rezan, 400 Sporepod and 395 Bernacle. (I was using the feather + Rezan or Diamond depending on healer last week).
sick sentinel
Button +feather should be your best bet imo
You can replace your button with a rezans or gore block at 400 though
You use your feather in avatar and the button on cd when not in avatar
Preferably when there are more than 30 sec left on the cd on feather
dim spindle
Ok thanks Kaege, that is what I though as well... will try hard to get the 400 rezan this week though, not a fan of the button
last gust
QoL: an @player macro, to drop the blast at your feet with one press makes the button feel better (for me)
last gust
Yup 👌
timber nest
is there anything spell reflectable or blockable in COS?
sick sentinel
honest canopy
I had to go out to The fridge pick a can or nim would have called The socialworkers
sick sentinel
Poyo
honest canopy
Vyes
sick sentinel
405 rezan or 415 barnacle for m+?
honest canopy
425+leech Block
primal sable
barnacle is such a waste of a trinket
if it ever drops for me in chest im ending my career
sick sentinel
Poyo poyo poyo, poyo
elfin plume
doesnt the furthest right talent on the second to last row of talents
doesnt that suck
burnt fossil
lol
elfin plume
yeah but
elfin plume
wouldnt the shout one be beter
burnt fossil
cleans up the gdc mess too
warm plinth
The shout one is better, yes.
elfin plume
yeah okay
outer dew
define better though bby
elfin plume
thats what i thought
outer dew
what if i wanna be a pump master
warm plinth
Better in any situation if you aren't competing for 100% parses on single target raid fights.
outer dew
lmao
sick sentinel
Poyo
warm plinth
Yeah, it is always better defensively.
elfin plume
kk just making sure
warm plinth
And is better offensively on anything other than a pure single target scenario
ornate grail
guys
sick sentinel
Poyo
outer dew
wtb another mythic fetid
ornate grail
385 howler with socket
sick sentinel
Poyo + poyo
warm plinth
@ornate grail Those are all you got?
burnt fossil
the warrior in the world first mythic kill of cabal
outer dew
bfi is good for raid
burnt fossil
was stacking BFI
warm plinth
What ilevel is the idol?
ornate grail
395
warm plinth
I'd probably use Rezan+Idol but I have a hatred for Jes so...lol
worthy dagger
jes is so good tho
burnt fossil
i got a 410 in my trash can this week
ionic fern
I got a 420 one. 😦
burnt fossil
wait should i be using BFI for raiding? My healers were saying i felt kinda squishy
i run 3x bastion
chilly brook
No
BoM is not the weakest trait in raids
But yes BFI is very strong in raids
@sick sentinel
@burnt fossil you got logs?
burnt fossil
not on the latest round, i dont think
chilly brook
Logs would really help nail down why you felt squishy
tired hawk
Hello guys, I just got "Servant Splitter" (1h axe from WM with that bleed effect), is it a better axe even if it doesn't have secondary stats ?
chilly brook
Is it an ilvl upgrade? And if so how much?
austere oar
BfI alone wont make you unbeatable
warm plinth
For damage, it's still better if it's your highest ilevel. If you have like a 5 ilevel lower one with stats, it'd be better defensively.
austere oar
If you're squishy no azerite trait will fix the problem for you
chilly brook
^
warm plinth
I would agree. If you're squishy, it's either a you problem (most likely) or a raid problem.
burnt fossil
well it was in comparison to a BrM, so
austere oar
Prot is all about understanding the mechanics and playing ahead of it
chilly brook
It could also be healers being lazy af
warm plinth
You shouldn't feel squishy at all as a prot warrior if you're playing correctly. Unless you're taking mostly magic damage.
austere oar
You need to think ahead of the damage income, not after
tired hawk
it's a 10 ilvl upgrade
sick sentinel
are you using your spells it the only way you die as prot is not useing them 😛
warm plinth
Eh at 10 ilevels I'd just use it.
tired hawk
ok thank you very much 😄
austere oar
Weapons are extremely important for their attack power value
So pretty much ilvl
Same as block works for shields
warm plinth
Yep
burnt fossil
Legion
celest gate
I recently did a siege 17 and the monkey trash and 3rd boss trash was destroying me on raging, should I just be kiting on raging? The dps were even cleaving so every pack raged at the same time :(