Correct, nobody cares about ST
#protection
chrome falcon
supple path
I care about ST, because we absolutely didn't warrant a nerf in raids.
undone sun
it was stated earlier
10%
6-10% is reaosnable
it was entirely expected
if you didn't expect a nerf you're blind
viral arch
the nerf is most impactful on short burst many-target AoE
inland mesa
Good bye fotm
viral arch
i.e. packs nobody gives a flying fuck about
warm plinth
The sky is falling apparently 😏
supple path
So I'd have liked for them to pair the nerf to UF with a buff to devastate or shield slam but mrehhh
mortal brook
isnt the essence that reduces avatar cd more than make up for the loss?
sharp dew
Who cares if unstoppable is nerfed, if they don't touch our mitigation then I'd be surprised and happy
sick sentinel
ok so let me get things straight
primal sable
Buff revenge pls
sharp dew
UF needed a nerf badly
viral arch
^ @sharp dew that's the real takeaway
sick sentinel
this is the exact thing that we said "this is what they have to do to tune us down without gutting us"
and they did that exact thing
chrome falcon
Yeah I would have liked a buff to devestate or revenge because they are worthless abilities that only exist to proc other abilities and feel like total shit to press, but whatever
lucid bough
the other options are really crappy too tbh
fierce juniper
The UF nerf works out to a ~6% or so nerf in Single Target situations, and about a ~10% nerf to overall DPS in "reasonable" AoE situations.
This is a pretty reasonable nerf IMO. Prot will still do a lot of damage in dungeons and we are by no means unviable or anything of the sort.
steep moss
Are you gonna keep talking like this is the only change that's gonna happen
umbral forge
When another Tank can solo tank Grong HC I'll consider rerolling.
Prot Warrior is the king of physical damage mitigation, us being the king of AoE burst DPS as well is new and I'm not too sad about that position being removed somewhat.
@sick sentinel yeah exactly. I'm super happy they didn't touch AM yet
Heya Marok
undone sun
yet
viral arch
@umbral forge monks want a word
supple path
The post implies that there won't be many other changes, Illya
undone sun
i cant wait for the "i told you so" moment
supple path
At least...in this wave.
umbral forge
@viral arch When I grew up playing video games I didn't search up cheat codes.
mortal brook
is that pin with the essence consideration to the uptime of avatar?
fierce juniper
yes
mortal brook
not bad at all then
viral arch
@umbral forge you sure?
supple path
At least spell reflect damage isn't showing up in meters yet or the nerf would've been 20% worse
umbral forge
my biggest fear is Blizz stealth hotfixing SR cyclone strike
Every new reset I join a m0 run there just to SR it to make sure
sharp dew
Hasn't since it's birth iirc so I don't see them adding unless they touched on it @supple path
chrome grove
But Censuras, spell reflect is dogshit compared to what it was in Legion
supple path
Oh yeah, I just feel like the actual impetus behind this nerf wasn't real number crunching and balance, just public outcry about warrior DPS meters.
sharp dew
Could you imagine how nice your details would've looked in legion with legion's SR lmao
winter aspen
So no reaping+ the nerf
supple path
Spell reflecting multiple nukes on first underrot boss like you're the real boss
oh god old spell reflect on reaping would've been amazing
winter aspen
Id guess prot being 3rd behind DK and Pally
austere oar
Wouldn't say so, ppl finally understood you are not obligated to bring a BDK to do a key
supple path
God pugging in season 1 as a non-BDK tank was a scarring process.
sharp dew
^ Nerf isn't that big as stated above, even in a giant pull, no other tank is going to compete post nerf
chrome grove
I had no issues pugging in s1, both as pal/monk
sick sentinel
I pugged Season 1 as a prot pal and got 1.1k without trying hard so
austere oar
It's all about the community's perception
supple path
I got to around 1200 or so, still got rejected for about ~95% of 10s
potent anvil
going from 100k reaping dps to 90k 
chrome falcon
@chrome grove to clarify, SR can still nuke bosses randomly but it's not even close to being as good as it was in raiding and the fact that we lose the buff after one cast sucks
chrome grove
Different for each person tho I guess, sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail
sharp dew
What I'm excited about, is how huge my bear is gonna be 😄
hidden kindle
where can I see the nerf? cant see it on mmo champ
undone sun
sharp dew
@potent anvil exactly lmao
chrome grove
@chrome falcon dont ever @ me again
chrome falcon
@chrome grove lmao just trying to explain my previous hyperbole, my bad buddy
sick sentinel
i was accepted almost every time. was mythic raiding, got to 382 or something in Uldir and never got declined
so it sounds like you just need to find a mythic guild
supple path
If our pug luck was different, that's the obvious, only answer.
winter aspen
No reaping ?
chrome falcon
Either way, I'm not saying this makes prot a bad tank since we're probably still the best in m+. We still just have the same core issues we did in 8.0, we just didn't notice/care because of the insane over-scaling on block/UF, and since this nerf doesn't really address those gameplay issues, it's a little disappointing
supple path
we don't get one shot by that pack of assholes with wrenches in motherlode if we forget to pop shield wall anymore
austere oar
What core issues ?
supple path
Though I will be honest - beating DPS on damage meters is one of my absolutely favorite things to do in the game atm, so I'm gonna get emotional when that goes under threat, hah.
chrome falcon
Like I said I don't want to be seen as whining @austere oar but basically most of our buttons are low-impact and feel like shit to press (deva, revenge mostly)
wooden hull
low impact?
sick sentinel
and it's like 400 ilvl
wooden hull
prot feels like the buttons you press have the most impact
austere oar
Well Deva and Reveng are both gates to SS procs
chrome falcon
You feel like two of our abilities being "30% chance to proc SS" is high impact?
supple path
Devastate is the most filler of filler abilities to ever fill.
warm plinth
I actually don't have that feeling at all. Revenge is just free damage the way we use it, and Devastate isn't even cast that frequently. If it was something I had to press as often as Swipe on a Guardian, it would bother me. But I really don't get that feeling at all.
undone sun
theoretically so is TC @austere oar
sick sentinel
revenge spreads deep wounds
austere oar
Ye but thunder and shit
chrome falcon
Yeah Thyme is exactly correct. Obviously an SS proc does a lot of nice things but it still doesn't feel as impactful as getting a judgement proc or stacking up some bone shields
wooden hull
stacking up bone shields doenst feel impactful at all
chrome falcon
(by a lot of nice things i mean generate 20 rage)
austere oar
I'm mostly raiding and that's true I'm a bit disappointed my deva is doing same dmg as my 2 reckless flurry traits
But huh 🤷
warm plinth
Marrowrend doesn't feel impactful at all though lol
sick sentinel
20 rage lul
supple path
it does when you let them drop! but yeah that's pure maintenance country
chrome falcon
jesus i forgot lmao
viral arch
@chrome falcon marrowrend is a chore
Heart strike feels like slapping the boss with spaghetti
wooden hull
a chore is being nice
chrome falcon
So yeah, our buttons are really low impact and we're pretty much carried by the fact that Shield Block and Last Stand are INSANE
viral arch
Blood boil does damage but has no interaction
Death strike is the only thing that feels anything
sick sentinel
one of the many reasons devastator is worse than it was in legion
supple path
The core problem with warrior imo is that a few talents are basically core abilities that the class requires to function.
UF, AM, etc.
Which really pidgeon holes us on customization and blahblah
chrome falcon
aka every spec
supple path
Ehhh it's worse for warriors.
warm plinth
Maybe I'm just a filthy casual but I don't care about customization if the spec is fun to play.
undone sun
DID SOMEONE SAY FEEL
chrome falcon
I would challenge the idea that having to devastate multiple GCDs in a row is fun
supple path
I'd like to have meaningful choices between mitigation, AE damage, single target damage, etc. in talents instead of just "one correct choice"
chrome falcon
But, yeah
warm plinth
How often do you have to press Devastate multiple GCDs in a row 🤔
supple path
rarely enough that every time it happens I remember and hate it
warm plinth
lol
chrome falcon
Couple times a pull and it feels like shit every time
austere oar
Doesnt happen in m+ but it does in some raid fights
supple path
Yeah when you're too rage starved for revenge it's not uncommon
wooden hull
yeah but only in small packs
chrome falcon
Happens every now and then to me on Jaina
might as well take revenge off the bar for that one
warm plinth
I just don't get how having to choose a different talent for one scenario vs another is fun.
austere oar
What's infuriating to me is the Fucking SS proc when theres less than a GCD left
chrome falcon
Because it means that sometimes your spec plays one way
Sometimes it plays the other way
austere oar
Happens EVERY time
warm plinth
But not really
chrome falcon
Yes really what the fuck are you talking about
Imagine if sometimes we actually wanted to take devastator or ravager
warm plinth
I could put 3 choices in a talent tree that says you get 10% DR, 10% damage, or 10% damage on an ability you only use in AoE, and it wouldn't change how you play at all.
chrome falcon
Right now you play prot the exact same way pretty much no matter what you're doing
Yes and that would be really fucking bad talent design, kind of like we have now
warm plinth
You're giving Blizzard way too much design credit if you think they'd have three options that played three different ways
And all were viable
chrome falcon
I'd take two
sick sentinel
okay
wooden hull
what tank even has that option
sick sentinel
this is a shitshow
chrome falcon
Like I don't understand the point you're making
sick sentinel
that I can't even follow
orchid token
everyone listen to necrys forever
chrome falcon
Are you arguing against giving tanks more choices
I don't understand what you're even trying to say
undone sun
ew no @orchid token
green isle
can i still thunder clap after the patch
sick sentinel
give me a TL;DR in like a week
undone sun
yes
green isle
ok ty
orchid token
choice in talents is overrated
undone sun
hi jacob
final mist
As Papasmithy would say, this channel is a fuckin’ clown fiesta rn
chrome falcon
Ok I really don't know how to respond to the idea that it wouldn't be nice to have more talent choices in an expansion where we have literally none
green isle
😘
chrome falcon
that's just about the dumbest shit I've ever read and i'm going to bed before I have to think too hard about it
undone sun
@final mist i wonder why...
orchid token
blizzard has a historically poor track record of making meaningful talent choices with multiple fun builds
warm plinth
Yikes. Sorry I had a different opinion from you 😂
final mist
😬
supple path
Yeah, that's why I called it a core problem of the class. I apologize for unlocking that can of worms though, hah.
chrome falcon
There was like a two week period in legion when AM and HR were competitive with each other
orchid token
if i have to choose between one well designed synergistic spec with no choice, and a spec with multiple bland choices, i take the former every time
warm plinth
Same.
undone sun
most of NH HR was the go to, iirc
neon tangle
@warm plinth Let me tell you, burning through tomes in a raid is pretty fun
austere oar
I remember warlock players on antorus
final mist
The two week period was when people refused to give up HR during ToS release
austere oar
Switching talents every boss and bitching about it
chrome falcon
@neon tangle i'm pretty sure i can think of a more expensive raid consumable than tomes
orchid token
personally im not a fan of switching talents boss to boss
supple path
Don't forget switching legendaries on every trash pull. good times.
final mist
Potions
chrome falcon
in fact i could probably think of like 4
ie: literally all of them apart from tomes
neon tangle
@final mist also very "fun"
orchid token
if a spec has talent choice, i want it to be multiple sets of set-and-forget talents
final mist
Times are inexpensive, it’s just a hassle
orchid token
changing talents between bosses is anti fun
chrome falcon
Holy shit I cannot believe what I am reading, blizzard has actually dumbed people down to the point that they're anti-choice
Do you want to just remove talents all together?
supple path
Well to use an example, resto druids have some talent choices where it's like "This is best for m+." "This is best for raids." "This is best for m+ where you expect to not have time to DPS."
undone sun
wat
chrome falcon
This is blowing my mind
warm plinth
Will prot still play the same way?
orchid token
im not anti choice
im anti blizzard's implementations of choice
there's a difference
neon tangle
@chrome falcon Just pointing out that for a lot of classes even when there are different talent choices it doesnt have a huge effect on gameplay, it just means you burn tomes
final mist
I’m just waiting for someone to say, “talents haven’t been fun since the 69,000 point trees!” Just so I can point out that literally nothing has changed
warm plinth
Yeah, exactly
orchid token
like prot paladin has multiple viable talent picks
and i hate it
swapping between blessed hammer and HOTR sucks
swapping between RP and sera sucks
supple path
Talents haven't been fun since they bugged out and there were 52? points available and you could go death wish/mortal strike.
orchid token
swapping between judgement of light and consecrate slow sucks
because it isn't a choice
there's 1 choice for this situation and 1 choice for the other situation
neon tangle
I swap around BDK talents all the time, it just means "oh hey I'm gonna press blood drinker every 30s" or "I can go a little faster sometimes'
warm plinth
I was just about to say that exact thing
It's not a choice; it's just a requirement for a different set of circumstances
final mist
To be fair, we have that now
supple path
Our only real choice right now is what...storm bolt vs rumbling earth?
final mist
Stride for raids, TC range for M+
supple path
Oh that.
warm plinth
Lol, yep
final mist
Much better
sick sentinel
storm bolt and rumbling
undone sun
ravager for necro oh
orchid token
i prefer rumbling
final mist
SB is never not the choice
supple path
There's probably some dungeon where rumbling is better, but I can't think of it.
austere oar
Leech vs ilvl 👀
neon tangle
The real punishment for having different m+ talents tho is realziing you have the wrong ones a pull or two in
steel mauve
i never understood the argument of the 31 point talent trrees being more fun
final mist
I miss when Crit to Parry ratio was busted and Ravager actually did damage
chrome falcon
@steel mauve It was nice getting something every time you levelled up. that was it.
neon tangle
I can't express how many times I get to pull 2 and dont have bonestorm
final mist
It’s kinda neat to see how much damage it doesn’t do though
steel mauve
talents today give new abilities/spells, change current ones or add great passives, the old trees all they did was 1% per point of increased damage
supple path
The 'fun' parts of the 31 point talent trees were mostly just that no one knew jack shit about the game back then so you could personalize your choices without people knowing you were mathematically incorrect.
sick sentinel
well with triple GS
chrome falcon
The old talent system was superior for its time because the game was much more about levelling then
warm plinth
Sal, it is the most hardcore looking non-hardcore thing you'll ever cast though
chrome falcon
So it was important to keep feeding people upgrades
Now that it's all about endgame the new system is much better, the issue is that everything inside the system is lame as fuck
final mist
You do less damage with Three hundred Ravager casts than you will with a minute of AM
Hell
warm plinth
😬
sick sentinel
lol
final mist
You could have 300 warriors cast Ravager against one warrior with AM, and the one warrior won’t die and still outDPS the 300
It’s that bad
supple path
We just need content where AE dps matters for 8 seconds really intensely and then the fight is over.
final mist
Anyone arguing for it is hilariously deluded
warm plinth
He won't die because of the 35%party though 😂
chrome grove
Yeah but the parry chance
final mist
Ravager will never matter
fervent harness
Talents suck and we should all just play classes with 4 actives and no passives. Discuss.
final mist
Not in it’s current state
supple path
LoL is super popular, yes James.
supple path
(dota has talents and is thus superior)
neon tangle
@fervent harness Honestly I think that a lot of MOBAs end up having better talent/build diversity and depth
chrome falcon
Just make ravager baseline because it's cool and I want to press it
Thank you blizzard
warm plinth
^ this tbh
final mist
I’d rather have AM baseline and Ravager buffed
fervent harness
yeah its not like it does anything anyway
tacit solstice
F in chat bois
final mist
Class literally doesn’t work without AM
chrome falcon
AM should be basline for all specs and should be the cornerstone of all warrior design
supple path
The class just doesn't function without yes
tacit solstice
Yeah at least our mitigation is still good
warm plinth
Except that we're the best by a slightly smaller margin
winter aspen
Dps might not be so needed next patch
neon tangle
@tacit solstice it's maybe a 10% nerf overall in AoE
chrome falcon
Blizzard should literally remove every spell from the warrior spell book (fury can keep enrage), add AM baseline to all the specs, and then move from there
final mist
Yeah you’ll be doing 250k DPS instead of 300k
supple path
I beat my guildleader on damage meters in a freehold by less than 6% the other week. It couldn't matter more!
final mist
Big yikers in little China tbh
supple path
I just wish they'd done the typical Blizzard development cycle so we could've seen next affix before nerf went in
fervent harness
Can probs out dps outlaw rogues now too
warm plinth
Next PTR patch: "Warriors are now forced to cast Ravager non-stop so the rest of the tanks can keep up"
tacit solstice
is the outlaw nerf even bad
final mist
Maybe they’ll make Sub an actual spec again for rogues as compensation
Combat got dumpstered
undone sun
compensation...
sick sentinel
wait
undone sun
that's a new term for blizzard
fervent harness
yeah outlaw is gonna hurt
final mist
DC isn’t nerfed at all
supple path
(over)Compensation is blizzard's term for "how we balance bears"
final mist
??
undone sun
not yet
warm plinth
@supple path I was saying that the other day; I wish we could've seen the impact of the next affix first, then had them change us
undone sun
BoM is more likely to see a change anyways
final mist
DC was never stacked for anything but DPS anyways
sick sentinel
what I mean, the damage that DC adds to your thunderclap was increased by the 100%
tacit solstice
The veng dh changes still suck :/ its a pretty fun class
supple path
Yeah, the nature of nerf nerfs value of DC as a dps trait
sick sentinel
so other traits that give damage will be less behind than DC
did I get this wrong?
final mist
Probably won’t change anything for DPS traits
austere oar
Inb4 3x CR and BSC meta
tacit solstice
nah DC still does the most damage. 50% with 3x dc and 3x BOM is still op as fuck
supple path
It may make like...TC vs DC a more TC-favored choice for DPS concerns I guess.
sick sentinel
it changes things for me, because I am against stacking DC tbh
sick sentinel
I would rather have a trait that gives me both damage and defence, like IF or like BFI (for st) than having a second dc
austere oar
And the free IP is super nice tbh
chrome falcon
Yeah I honestly think the really fucked up thing is BoM also making us unkillable thunderfuckers
chrome falcon
No?
sick sentinel
ikr
sick sentinel
the chat went on fire i lost track of what was said
i checked couple stuff it is weird lel
undone sun
had it's moments
supple path
The part of the nerf worth complaining about is how fast blizzard moved on it.
sick sentinel
it was obvious the nerf i mean
supple path
This is like 1/5th their usual balance cycle
sick sentinel
they should what do you mean
all I care about
is not if we get nerfed, that was 100% expected
chrome falcon
blizz nerfed this on an appropriate time scale
chrome falcon
it just sucks that they never nerf anything else this quickly
supple path
Yeah, but Blizzard NEVER nerfs on an appropriate time scale, hah.
sick sentinel
all I want is us not to get FUCKED
chrome falcon
looks at BDK
winter aspen
More nerfs might be on the way
austere oar
Hopefully the nerf wont be on AM
sick sentinel
also I would rather have us nerfed a little bit and everyone else brought up in power
instead of us getting nerfed to other's power
supple path
I just wish they'd nerfed UF in the initial balance pass on warriors
sick sentinel
blizzard balanced the game around raids forever and bdk was only insanely strong in m+ not raids
chrome falcon
More nerfs would surprise me honestly but we'll see
supple path
it was as obvious then as it was now
sick sentinel
i would say in antorus prot warr was way better
right now thanks to mdi now m+ meta is also a big thing and blizz started caring about it
it is no surprise
oh wow
really now?
austere oar
Yeah I think they wont touch warriors additionally
sick sentinel
they have statistics
undone sun
hmmm
sick sentinel
it's not the mdi
they knew about it
when their leaderboards filled with prot warriors
yeah in legion they didnt care still about m+ and its balance
they read the forums
now they try to act bit faster compared to legion
im not saying they are perfect at balancing
just saying
austere oar
Wait so the nerfs are expected for the Azshara raid right ?
heavy chasm
"Faster balancing "
austere oar
Yeah that still let us few months
undone sun
8.22 baby
sick sentinel
the raid is in 8.2.5
there will be lots of changes coming there is also a chance one of the heart of azzeroth traits will be perfect for prot and we will be strong again right now
neon tangle
(sorta like there was a weird bit at the end of s1)
austere oar
Expected some small balances with Crucible M coming out
undone sun
regardless if raid comes out with class changes
that was my whole point of it's useless to whine and complain now
it's still quite a ways away
astral crystal
Mechagon and Nazjatar will be fully open on day 1, while the dungeon and raid will launch either the second or third week.
going pepega fast
sick sentinel
yeah raid will come out with season3 i think
well they changed their release schedule compared to legion so who knows
austere oar
What I dont get is locking the essence system behind an azerite grind again
During the summer break moreso
Like wtf
sick sentinel
grind is state of mind as long as you enjoy the things you do it wont feel like it
so as long as game is good there will be no grind you will be just playing and getting the rewards
austere oar
Well getting to neck lvl 65 wont come by just killing raid bosses
outer dew
@sand egret bear buffs look pretty good
astral crystal
neck level is just for ilvl
undone sun
it goes past 50?
astral crystal
yes it will
neon tangle
@outer dew Pray to our lord and savior lipkiss
sick sentinel
well they might change ap you get from m+ and raids so who knows
undone sun
DansGame
austere oar
Isnt the last passive essence locked at lvl 65 ?
sick sentinel
but if they force people to farm islands then i will hate the game
50 you get your button
austere oar
Thought I read that on wowhead
sick sentinel
65 you get your second passive yes
outer dew
gonna tell people i'm bear main next season
sick sentinel
the only thing you get between 55(first passive) and 65 is just stamina
undone sun
go back to your leech corner @outer dew
sick sentinel
and they absolutely do not want you to get 65 before some weeks into the raid
"even for method"
their words
warm plinth
@outer dew Reduced IF cost eh? But not as big as we were talking lol
neon tangle
@austere oar It'll prolly end up like it does now, if you don't care and wait it out az knowledge will get you shit eventually
outer dew
and a bit of our st
neon tangle
especially if they are bumping up the non-repeatable stuff a bunch
warm plinth
Yep, so they did a bit of both of what we were talking about the other day
outer dew
si, bless
austere oar
Ye I'm lvl 45 not doing emissaries for several weeks and fine with It tbh
Only 8/9M tho
sick sentinel
im 47 just doing m+ no wqs for 2 months or so
as long as they keep AK going it will be fine i think
a little bit of grind isnt bad
but just a little xd
outer dew
existing is a grind
austere oar
I miss wod where I logged in to raid
zinc creek
i mean we saw it coming, UF nerf
austere oar
And where your alt could catch up to your main in 2 raid nights
sick sentinel
broken kite
;(
inland plover
ouch prot dmg
Unstoppable Force Thunderclap damage reduced to 50% (was 100%).
Developers' notes: Protection Warrior burst DPS with Avatar is extremely high for a tank. This talent was adding more damage than necessary, given that it also decreases Thunder Clap's cooldown and synergizes well with certain Azerite traits.
sick sentinel
LITERALLY the message above yours
merry cave
Fun was had
undone sun
fun
sick sentinel
its gonna be ok
undone sun
oh
sick sentinel
chill the fuck out
undone sun
exactly
austere oar
Fuck how am I gonna flame my teammates catching them up on cleave during raids then
Or them catching up to me*
inland plover
😄
supple path
DPS can beat us now, so anyone who beats us in the future who didn't before must be eternally reminded of their past failings.
austere oar
Gonna pack some screenshots
For later use
remember that time where I dit more dmg than u on a whole dungeon ?
supple path
Or if they're REALLY talking shit...you gotta coordinate with the healer to have them die a bunch.
The ol' quaking intervenes.
austere oar
Reminds me of the trash before zekvoz
Call for BoP when he enrages
2nd most aggro gets OS
supple path
You have to call for it with your groups? different worlds.
merry cave
Guess I just hate the old fashioned notion that tanks have to do less damage, feels out dated. But we all knew it was coming
supple path
I agree, bring back vengeance. Specifically the scaling that made tank double #2
Blizzard's design philosophy on tank DPS can't exactly be called consistent.
warm plinth
Is Clapomatic an acceptable name for my new kul tiran warrior?
sweet kettle
Get out
neon tangle
@merry cave It would be pretty interesting if WoW had looser roles like D&D and tabletop games
supple path
As long as you explain to everyone you encounter that it's actually a reference to the uncontrolled STDs going on amongst Kul Tirans and not thunder clap.
sweet kettle
Maybe call him smallclaps
warm plinth
But I have beer gut weight behind my claps
sick sentinel
LOL
warm plinth
Like you get the foot smash, and then the belly comes down and it's like a double tap
merry cave
Would be fun sadbox :)
sweet kettle
I thought a bigger nerf would hit us but hey we Gucci boys
neon tangle
@sweet kettle It's way too early to know how things will shake out
sweet kettle
Don't think they gonna give prot the arms treatment
neon tangle
the new neck abilities, new seasonal affix, etc could unseat prot pretty easily
blizz said they are playing around with the idea of a ST-focused affix
tl;dr wait and see, nobody knows
supple path
Didn't paladins already have that?
sweet kettle
Don't think so
austere oar
I think we're still ahead
sick sentinel
bfi is behind RF in st damage tho
austere oar
RF is insane
sweet kettle
Before we know it bear will be the best tank
supple path
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#class=Tanks yeah neck and neck it looks like.
Just way more warriors.
pretty comparable on Grong though.
austere oar
Guardian is actually ahead of protadin in statistics 75%
supple path
there really aren't that many fights in BoD without cleave, man.
heavy chasm
Been struggling trying to decide what alt tank I want as is
sweet kettle
Guardian
heavy chasm
It was vengeance for a bit. But damn did it feel ass outside spines
neon tangle
@supple path the prot warriors who did btter on grong were clapping the adds that spawn
steady oasis
Any prot m+'ers here? How much uptime do you guys usually finish with for ignore pain and shieldblock etc?
sweet kettle
Vengeance always feels shit outside of spikes
supple path
@neon tangle Yeah that makes sense.
neon tangle
austere oar
Mekka would be THE st fight imo
sick sentinel
uptime on details is different than effective uptime
heavy chasm
Guardian and blood dk seem way to fucking boring
warm plinth
Now it'll feel better outside spikes and spikes will be just as unimpactful as Meta
👌
sick sentinel
you want to have 100% effective uptime
sweet kettle
Unless blizz pulls there shit together and reduce the CD of demon spikes vengeance will always be a meme
heavy chasm
Atleast blood has some defensives
supple path
@steady oasis Ignore pain uptime isn't a mechanic you care about, and for shield block - you're aiming for 100% between that + bolster on any threatening damage pack.
warm plinth
Yeah, they need to just nerf Spikes and give it 100% effective uptime
heavy chasm
Spines would be fine I'd they had actual defensives
outer dew
while the rest is just tuning
warm plinth
Yeah I'd agree with that
supple path
Guardian druids will always be about 15% more fun because of the bear dance animation.
sick sentinel
15% is a bit specific
outer dew
until you hit retard keys
supple path
I've studied that dance a lot, Kaege.
outer dew
where it's meeles kicking your shit in
supple path
because of all the clapping hahaaaaaaaa dies
sick sentinel
I have darkmoon dancing bear for that @supple path
sweet kettle
Veng has a nice playstyle but the dungeons in bfa don't really work for him
heavy chasm
I'm probably going to do a dk
warm plinth
I'll see myself out
heavy chasm
I feel like raiding qs vengeance is masochism at its finest
austere oar
Tbh Vdh in ST is almost as boring as bear
sick sentinel
you are talking abou vdh
heavy chasm
Atleast you can kite in m plus a bit
sick sentinel
you did read the changes on them right?
heavy chasm
And use your sigils
neon tangle
@heavy chasm why not just play warrior?
sweet kettle
Shit changes
sick sentinel
I know
heavy chasm
I want to have two tanks
sick sentinel
but like
sweet kettle
Why would you nerf demon spikes
sick sentinel
they will not be the only ones
outer dew
gonna name change my bear to
sweet kettle
Sure you buffed something else
austere oar
Bc DS is based on the general stats of the class
neon tangle
@sweet kettle They moved more mitigation to the baseline?
austere oar
So if you buff the general aspect
warm plinth
Because DS is actually really strong. You wouldn't keep it as is and make it 100% upt ime
austere oar
You need to nerf DS
warm plinth
uptime*
heavy chasm
Just give them some defensives
warm plinth
Or were you not responding to me. I'm not really paying attention
sick sentinel
it's still a buff though, even during DS
sweet kettle
More mitigation to baseline means less control means shit really
neon tangle
I mean, I expected them to nerf SB a little and move more mitigation to the baseline, but then 8.1 happened
sick sentinel
and they did both
sweet kettle
My Dh right now with demon spikes up has almost the same armor and Parry chance that my warrior has as passive
austere oar
Problem with DH is either you're under DS and fine, but in between DS you're a cloth tank turning your back to the boss
sweet kettle
Class design baby
neon tangle
@sweet kettle "These changes are a substantial increase to physical mitigation when Demon Spikes is down, and a neutral-to-very-slight increase when Demon Spikes is active."
Literally you just take less damage when demon spikes are down, same to slightly less when they are up
it's just flat out better
sweet kettle
That is shit you know it right?
neon tangle
you're killin me bug
warm plinth
PTR isn't even out yet and we're naysaying other specs. XD
sweet kettle
They shouldn't nerf ds it was never broken doesn't matter the passive stuff you get
austere oar
Gonna have to see how it turns out bc they're buffing armor but DH still has fuck all armor
neon tangle
@sick sentinel whattttt, when has that ever happened?
supple path
@sweet kettle The DH complaint has always been that they were too reliant on their active mitigation + squishy without it, so they responded to that by shifting the survivability to be more passive
sweet kettle
The 5% buffs every patch
neon tangle
months of "if you just flat buff warriors their AM is too powerful and it will make them OP, you have to rebalance it"
blizzard: "flat number buffs"
supple path
Reaping definitely makes it worse.
heavy chasm
Seriously inflated by reaping
austere oar
We kinda are tbh
heavy chasm
Like 100 percent
neon tangle
reaping realllly makes it worse
austere oar
SB is the best spell in the game
heavy chasm
The damage tune is fine
Yeah but you still have to do it well
There is no middle ground for prot
You either euck the days dick or you dont
neon tangle
more+good traits, better availability of shields+DC
sweet kettle
What they should do is reduce the CD of ds just so Dh can't have it 100% but can live without it for 1-2sec
supple path
They gave us the ability to select 6 AE DPS traits yeah.
warm idol
What Loa (Zandalari racial) would be the best for a M+ warrior tank?
austere oar
Paku
sick sentinel
generally paku
but some people are part of the gonk gang
gotta be fast as fuck boy
austere oar
The guys playing leech I hear of ?
warm idol
Hehe, thanks ^^
sweet kettle
5% faster on the timer kappa
austere oar
Cant die if they cant catch you
neon tangle
@austere oar @supple path re: mekka, if you look at the top couple prot warriors and shaved off 6% prot pally would be dominating that
warm idol
thought on the state of warrior tanks in high keys after 8.2 nerf? "Unstoppable Force Thunderclap damage reduced to 50% (was 100%)."
sick sentinel
@warm idol
warm idol
the pins are confusing
neon tangle
tl;dr nobody knows
warm idol
ah
outer dew
tbf
sick sentinel
the one from TODAY
outer dew
i think my bear might outdps my warrior next season
neon tangle
because nobody knows about the new affix, nobody knows about the new items, nobody knows about the new neck stuff
umbral forge
Vengeance Demon Hunter nerfs 🤣
sick sentinel
@umbral forge it's buffs
umbral forge
I know
BUT
Kaege
I opened wowhead
and the first thing I read, as in the line my eyes saw the first and skim read as it loaded in was
sick sentinel
you literally can't read
umbral forge
"Demon Spikes: armor reduced to 60% of Agility (was 85%)."
orchid token
if you watch lipkiss he does meaty dmg
not prot warrior level
but easily prot paladin level
digital frigate
The Thunderclap damage nerf is in avatar form?
orchid token
yes
umbral forge
@orchid token I hate your new profile picture it is not who you are please go back to the bratty kid.
digital frigate
Ty Necrys
orchid token
sick sentinel
yo
umbral forge
sup kae
sick sentinel
if mini bosses give a shitload more %
umbral forge
did you like the opener of my guild rogue
sick sentinel
then middle pack in atal
orchid token
tbh theres really no reason not to have a warrior as a raid main now
neon tangle
@sick sentinel That will be... interesting, just levitate down to it after yazma
get 20%
or 30%, however much
umbral forge
@orchid token
Guardian Druid will be the best main tank in the next raid. Y'all blind for not seeing the obvious here.
orchid token
yeah my live atal plan has the middle pack
you shroud to it at the start and blow it up with lust and repeatedly chain pull in mobs
sick sentinel
it's getting a lot more viable
umbral forge
Bear with me for a minute here, it's underwater.
They can go Aquatic travel form to instantly fill up their breath bar, so they don't have to get air, unlike everyone else except forsaken
sick sentinel
that's where you are wrong
umbral forge
also warlocks will have unending breath removed
orchid token
its the best way to get reaping with rezan
sick sentinel
there will be no breathing problems
everyone will be breathing on that boss
seal will be good because they can go fast
umbral forge
shh
supple path
One day there will be content that requires bear druids to kite stuff in circles in sealform. One day.
umbral forge
one day we'll get 10 man mythic raiding back
orchid token
im liking the idea of bringing ranged tank back
umbral forge
it was mythic at the time y'know
orchid token
that hasnt been a thing since what
umbral forge
I meant highest level difficulty
sick sentinel
well
umbral forge
MoP
orchid token
illidan and maulgar?
sick sentinel
10man was still a lot easier than 25 man
umbral forge
very end of MoP
Yeah
I solo healed everything in Firelands up to Ragnaros in heroic as a holy paladin in a 10 man raiding guild
that's when it started
Beth'ilac was a nightmare I don't even know how I did it anymorer
Holy Radiance and light of dawn.
I miss those days.
hushed whale
bonded souls or brace for impact
sick sentinel
brace
sick sentinel
depends
orchid token
defense vs offense choice
sick sentinel
on what you are doing and what you want to do
if you are in a place where are asking that question
then you should take IF
sick sentinel
you will know that you can take a second DC when you will not have to ask
umbral forge
@sick sentinel
You think Male Blood Elf Warrior would be cool?
sick sentinel
there is no male option on blood elves
umbral forge
I should just stick to Nightborne then.
sick sentinel
and I do not play female characters unless I am forced to, (ie. dhs)
OH GOD NO
GO BELF
umbral forge
@sick sentinel What's wrong
umbral forge
I really like the look and animations
gloomy pond
anyone got a good filter expression for warcraft logs or a good method of determining if a prot warrior overlapped his ignore pain? (like used it when he was already capped effectively wasting rage ect)
umbral forge
Rezan
gloomy pond
rezan + engine would be my best bets
undone sun
overcapping IP is better than overcapping rage
gloomy pond
my point isnt whats better its determining if it happend
and you woulnd use IP you would use a revenge
undone sun
if you got lucky and it wasn't free, sure but that's also a gcd
sick sentinel
sure
ocean acorn
umbral forge
Race change to Nightborne.
ocean acorn
wtf why
sick sentinel
JET NO
umbral forge
jesus that gear though
sick sentinel
what the actual fuck is that gear
I did literally over 300 dungeons before I got my only 425
ocean acorn
same
ocean acorn
most the gear i got was from helping guildies get the ten for the week
sick sentinel
they do not like what meld does to reaping
and they will probably hit it a bit
@outer dew
ocean acorn
is there some where i can check amount of dungeons
sick sentinel
watching the sloot vod rn
umbral forge
@sick sentinel dude they have fucking insane nerfs for reaping coming soon.
sick sentinel
I just counted my tidalcores
umbral forge
I have insider information.
sick sentinel
because I do not do low dungeons
outer dew
pfft
sick sentinel
I ONLY push
umbral forge
They're removing it from the game in season 3!
sick sentinel
lol
sweet kettle
The arms treatment strikes again
sweet kettle
If it's broken just remove it
umbral forge
just yeeting reaping away
sweet kettle
The reset mechanic
outer dew
the spit on kitchen boss, jagged netals, the cahse from rezan
undone sun
mechanics are for cars
sick sentinel
I have absolutely no clue I was just memeing at you tofu
outer dew
td first boss
sweet kettle
Or you tank them like a proper man
outer dew
wdym
having your dps dodge a mechanic is huge
lol
:^)
it's depressingly strong
where you sit there can't justifhy being something else if your alliance
lol
sick sentinel
DID?
umbral forge
wait
sick sentinel
LFD?
sweet kettle
W8 what
sick sentinel
well LFD is a reaping thing
umbral forge
Did a lot of channels just get removed or has there always been this few
brazen sequoia
I'm just gonna say it.
I liked Infested more than I like Reaping.
sweet kettle
No you didn't you lie
sick sentinel
I wanna see all 3 seasonal affixes in the finals of mdi
umbral forge
I take personal offense
brazen sequoia
I did. But well, back then I had a full premade m+ team with voicecom xD
not random shit pugs
sweet kettle
I hated infested cause it was so random some times
sick sentinel
or in WCM in general, apart from non-cc-able mobs
you would plan your ccs beforehand and then pull all the infested together
brazen sequoia
Honestly I never did Underrot past +8 on Infested season. I were busy farming Atal'Dazar and Tol'Dagor for the trinkets
sick sentinel
oh....
okay that makes your statement a lot different
I only really really hated infested with sanguine
brazen sequoia
afaik Underrot doesn't drop anything of significance to prot warriors (stat wise) other than maybe legs and gloves. Think it's pure crit/vers gear in there
sick sentinel
vial trinket
brazen sequoia
Isn't that for dps?
sick sentinel
brazen sequoia
so inspirational
the "drains your allies life"-trinket from upcoming "raid" seems a little sadistic imo
seems like something a rogue would use.
next goblet
why was atal'dazar so cancerous for my group earlier?
undone sun
you know more about your group comp and players than we do ¯_(ツ)_/¯
sick sentinel
because you did it wrong
next goblet
really it was the totem boss.. they didnt balance out their dps on it
sick sentinel
your health got reduced to 0 faster then the mob's health got reduced to 0
that's like
a m0 mechanic
next goblet
like how hard is it to kill them at the same time?
everyone wants to splooge on the totems for high dps numbers
umbral forge
You killed totems at inappropriate times to super zombies butchered you.
You AoEd down raptors not caring about the Ptero being bolstered.
You messed up on boss mechanics.
One of these I guess ^
smoky oriole
So how hurting is prot in 8.2?
sick sentinel
sick sentinel
one being reaping being removed lol
umbral forge
Yeah
smoky oriole
kek
sweet kettle
Is that a meme now
digital frigate
warrior is a meme, yes
sweet kettle
@digital frigate why cause it has 3 dps specs?
umbral forge
@sweet kettle reaping as an affix might as well not exist, as opposed to infested which dictated the pace of dungeons by preventing certain pulls.
So yes
acoustic sparrow
Are more nerfs other than the UF one expected for prot?
digital frigate
I don't believe so.
umbral forge
Honestly I expect more
sick sentinel
I would guess so tbh
umbral forge
We're kings of mitigation and damage.
This nerfs damage. I wouldn't be surprised to see Anger Management reworked as well
digital frigate
how much % is prot war represented in raids?
jovial haven
finally got my diamond tonight
sick sentinel
way too much lol @digital frigate
acoustic sparrow
I hope the UF nerf is it. I don't think prot needs anything more than a slight aoe nerf
honest canopy
acoustic sparrow
I guess. But blizz liked to overnerf and gut specs so I wouldn't be surprised if prot gets sent to the shadow realm.
digital frigate
It was only a 6-10% nerf.
I think if they start there and see how things pan out, it's still fine.
acoustic sparrow
Burst aoe will be much shittier though
sick sentinel
reminder on how to do damage
daring marlin
how you boys liking the UF change
digital frigate
It's fine.
sick sentinel
the exact same thing we have been saying for literal months
daring marlin
real talk
sick sentinel
not only blade
daring marlin
idgaf that much
digital frigate
yap
at the end of the day best physical mitigation, good raid utility and still a ton of damage.
digital frigate
p much.
acoustic sparrow
I guess my groups will just have to make up all the damage I'll be losing. So...idk I guess that's a win for their egos?
mortal brook
guys! i got my everchill anchor 😄
mortal brook
also have that, crit active simmed higher st only
sick sentinel
depends
mortal brook
though its parry as well so utility wise
digital frigate
I may try everchill.
sick sentinel
it's a good idea to try everchill
digital frigate
Right now I use op trinket and rezen's.
I was thinking about transitioning into 3 bastion 3 claps but I think that may be detrimental for progression.
And if I go 3 bastion 3 claps... you know I wanna go crit trinket or everchill
sick sentinel
probs crit
undone sun
just you
sweet kettle
It's not that big
desert gust
We did too much damage, nerfs were inc
sick sentinel
it is literally just you
sweet kettle
It's blizzard take on we don't know what to do let's change a number and hope for the best
(never works)
woven trellis
You think its a small nerf? Im ont arguing about good or bad
sweet kettle
It's small
undone sun
it's not sky is falling worthy
woven trellis
I just think like the change is goin to be very noticeable
undone sun
it's 6-10% overall damage decreease
desert gust
Prot will still be doing very great damage, just not as insane as it is right now
undone sun
if you expected no nerfs, you are out of your mind
fossil heron
should buff vengeance and guardian to be on par and leave blood dk in the dust instead
R)
desert gust
they buff/nerfed vengeance lol
woven trellis
I would have guess more 15% or 20% we spend so much time under avatar
sick sentinel
it was just a buff @desert gust
fossil heron
idk if that armor is enough to make vengeance good enough though is it
desert gust
oh, my bad, I read it as they nerfed DS but the armor and stam values probably more than make up for it
fossil heron
yea it was to buff armor outside of spikes but keep armor in spikes the same
sick sentinel
and no there will be more changes
just like
do you even read?
" These changes are a substantial increase to physical mitigation when Demon Spikes is down, and a neutral-to-very-slight increase when Demon Spikes is active. "
sweet kettle
^^ blizzard not knowing what to do with veng
Let's buff his armor but nerf his mitigation cause you can't have that that would make Dh broken kappa
sick sentinel
ptr is not even out yet