you guys.. you take 20 minutes of my life every single morning.. backlog too good
#protection
inner bear
umbral forge
heya
warm plinth
We aim to please my good man
warm plinth
Is this a trap
empty inlet
umbral forge
It most definitely will
blizzard's method of nerfing is absurd compared to other mmo's out there
Prot Warrior dominates the meta right now because of our absurd AoE damage & Reaping.
If that's what Blizzard decides to fix without giving us power elsewhere, Protection Paladins will likely be stronger than us.
Another nerf is the removal of reaping. Maybe the next affix is something that a Vengeance DH or a blood DK can deal with easily?
crisp slate
With Veng buffs next tier
umbral forge
yeah
crisp slate
I'd be surprised to not see them jettison back up the meta
umbral forge
jokes aside Tofu
outer dew
i said the same about prot warrior
crisp slate
in b4 DH/Bear meta
outer dew
so obv i'll be right
crisp slate
for raids
inner bear
<metaslave.. got all tanks rdy to be geared :^) i don´t give a damn
umbral forge
DH have a mass AoE fear (intimidating shout as a sigil, THEY CAN TARGET ANYWHERE)
Mass AoE Silence (Only class to have it except Balance Druid)
A mass grip (on a longer CD than Gorefiend's)
Insane kiting potential and self-sustain.
Dispel
True CC
If Vengeance becomes viable on the mitigation front with 8.2 I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more of them.
together with a regular silence
half palm
So what I'm hearing is, enjoy prot while it lasts
young magnet
415 Rezan's or 405 Jes'?
young magnet
But what if I don't want the DH DPS in my guild to get the vers
I want it all for myself 😃
ty for quick response
willow scarab
I was kidding anyway
Your DH can go get a plumage
Rezan is the best trinket
Out of all of them
young magnet
o so i was bamboozled
young magnet
i got a 410 one in a 8 and i was only strength user in group
so it was DE'd
i pray for the brave boys still farming for it
willow scarab
It’s okay not your problem just rub it in instead imo
When I got my 425 one I posted it here and asked if it’s a good trinket
inner bear
rezan is good and stuff.. but does it have leech?
young magnet
what if i am a leech
outer dew
do you have siphoning?
old zephyr
Are we leech memeing again ?
mortal brook
i hope so. its that or asking about haste caps
brave mauve
Have you softcapped your block?
old zephyr
Yes so now I scrap every Shield upgrade
brave mauve
Good man
old zephyr
Gotta get that expulsom
exotic spoke
I believe you mean CAPS CAPS CAPS
Sorry... Im drunk... I'll see myself out now
exotic spoke
Celebrating and talking about caps
charred prawn
undone sun
nerds
dense flame
eh i don't think we will get hit that hard
warm plinth
Thyme, you came back for the awesome comraderie of this channel. That comraderie has just been replaced by hardcore memes lately smh.
dense flame
I just hope the new affix for s3 isn't shit
like infested was actually annoying
if we get fucked tho, can always go pally
xd
or if they make vdh good 😃
ionic fern
Always keep the shittiest tank up to date with gear..they're bound to get buffed at some point right?
👌
warm plinth
In all seriousness, I would just love if VDH and druid could be brought close enough to the rest of the tanks so they aren't immediately ostracized by the community.
Druid is a lot closer than VDH, tbf
old zephyr
But druid is booooloooring
ionic fern
Doesn't matter..some tank will be the "horrible" one in the perception of the community anyways..even if it isn't bad in reality people will still look at streamers/YT'ers not play them and conclude that they must be horrible.
sick sentinel
tbh i do think prot needs a nerf and hope they nerf us but not hardcore hit that will kill the spec
i just hate people typing ''just use clap dude''
mortal brook
i could see a 100% tclap during avatar to 50% talent nerf
old zephyr
Make next affix one that punish AoE
Rdruid goes back home prot is not broken anymore
And rogues can play sub again
ionic fern
Rdruid will never go back home as long as there's a non-BDK meta..need that CR on something. 😄
torn gust
Prot pala mighr actually take the spot of prot warri
undone sun
hmmm
ionic fern
Depends how much VDH/Guardian gets buffed.
Regarding to m+ VDH has really good tools so if they get sturdier they automatically will fly to the top half just due to the sheer amount of utility
solemn magnet
yeah ill never understand that
old zephyr
I Guess It's to give rsham kick value
Or they forgot that kicks mattered
Good luck running shrine with à demolock
ionic fern
Hmm?
You only need 2 melees + tank interrupts.
We are running with a demo lock and it's not a issue at all.
old zephyr
For Last boss ?
ionic fern
It's not a problem for any of the bosses.
distant crystal
one melee kicks each off the adds on last boss first
kill the first add before 2nd cast
tank kicks 2nd add after coming out of their phase
ezpz
jade holly
Depends how fast the healer comes up. Either let the first one go off or the 2nd and tank gets 2nd/3rd on far add
ionic fern
We usually let the first one go off.
And by the time 2nd is going on we're already out
old zephyr
But It's going to kill the healer if the cast go through
Last time I healed the cast killed me
old zephyr
It may have been the second =)
ionic fern
On last boss you should be.
jade holly
It doesnt it you unless you are in the same realm. But explosive hits you no matter what
lime mantle
VDH will be OP next patch.
Trust mex
torn gust
prot pala baby
sick sentinel
I just got this dm'ed
sand condor
Blizzard doesnt like us being good for dps
sick sentinel
Tbh it's not balanced lol
silk mortar
Yeah def needs tuning
torn gust
^^
ivory widget
Will be the same shit than arms after Uldir. Oh arms is good on Uldir's cleave fights go nerf them, then most st fight -> arms is garbage.
They gonna nerf clap and next affixe will be more st one -> prot garbage
sick sentinel
There is a difference @ivory widget
Arms got their execute and their cleave execute completely fuckef
They lost EP
They nerfed the rage refund
They fixed the cleave rage refund
hollow thorn
prot would still be best tank without reaping
sick sentinel
We are just getting "tuned down"
Numbers wise
So unless we get overnerfed we're gonna be fine
My bet is that we are going to get nerfed a tad, but bears and vdhs are going to get overbuffed
So they take the spotlight
fiery pollen
Is ptr date announced?
fiery pollen
Ok
oblique garnet
But the thing is guardian doesnt need a buff
Its awful to play sure but its strong
lime mantle
It needs some shit off gcd.
Or just removed from the game fuckndruid.
strange pike
ebon hound
UF nerfed is all that's necessary imho
orchid token
@sick sentinel idk if VDH can be overbuffed
like, yeah, it theoretically could be
but i dont think blizzard understands just how much they'd have to increase everything to make them not suck
it'd be a bigger buff than anything theyve ever buffed in history
strong forum
All they need to change is demon spike uptime tbh
oak ice
@oblique garnet guardians damage is quite low, our AM & lifepool is fine. Idk how blizz came to the conclusion that we need AM buffs lul.
strong forum
If they implement actually good azerite traits and change demon spike so it's close to 100% uptime VDH is quite strong
And the only possible nerf to not make warri dogshit is if they nerf UF instead of TC baseline. If they fuck with TC baseline too much its gonna be yikes. UF nerf to 75% or 60% would do the required trick
worthy dagger
I admit that vengence is pretty fun
strong forum
Vengeance is highest APM as I found out recently, prot warri has 75 apm whilst my vdh has 110 apm, feels fucking topkek
strong forum
Na man that's fun
worthy dagger
110 apm is nothing compared to other games
strong forum
Well sc has 170 apm if you take out random spamming
spice ferry
I barely play much outside wow anymore lol
strong forum
Casters besides affli and shadow have fucking 40 apm lamo
Imagine not being 75+ apm Chad 😏
oblique garnet
@oak ice guardian is literally the 2nd highest damage tank in m+
strong forum
Nani?!
oblique garnet
Like it does around 75% of warriors damage
It doesnt burst as high
But its consistent
strong forum
I thought vdh was 2nd in dmg, maybe pally
strong forum
I do like 16-18k on 412 vdh on low keys
worthy dagger
but thats AoE
strong forum
We're talking m+
oblique garnet
Yeah guardian can do 22-24k overall on a dungeon
strong forum
So yes
oblique garnet
Which is not far away from warriors
strong forum
Really now
oblique garnet
Yes
strong forum
So I have to level guardian now?
strong forum
After just finishing gearing vdh and starting pally now
oblique garnet
Its hard to say which will be best for m+
worthy dagger
That SS about the new hoa is awful
oblique garnet
We will find out about the warrior tuning next week
If its just damage nerf warrior will still be best for m+
ionic fern
My money's on UF
ionic fern
TC isn't the problem, UF+AM are.
strong forum
That's the only sensible nerf they could do
oblique garnet
They will nerf AM
oblique garnet
It would be justified
strong forum
Like, waaay too much
oblique garnet
We are way too strong defensively right now
strong forum
No because we would lose insane Midigation
It would kill raiding
As prot
We're not even popular in raiding
oblique garnet
What
ionic fern
You can say that AM is the bigger contributor than UF but you can also say it the other way around.e.g:
1)UF isn't a problem since if they take Avatar off of AM it's fine..
2)AM isn't a problem since if they nerf UF the Avatar DPS windows won't be as strong..
strong forum
UF nerf would be the most sensible thing to nerf without gutting us
To like 75/60% instead of 100%
oblique garnet
If they nerf avatar dps i.e UF that leaves another problem which is the ability to facetank anything
ionic fern
Wat
oblique garnet
It is
ionic fern
Just gotta wait and see what they do.
oblique garnet
Yeah if blizzard actually thought that it would be fine
oblique garnet
But since they tend to swing the nerfbat more than actually buff others
sick sentinel
on a 20% more damage ability
sounds a bit insane
while there is a trait like BoM in the game
it's exactly what they wanted to avoid
with legion
CD stacking
strong forum
Obv but the nerfs are purely because of mdi
sick sentinel
we should get nerfed
strong forum
And the reason why prot is played is literally because damgur
oblique garnet
And the funny part about BoM is that the live version is 50% of what it was in PTR before release
sick sentinel
we just have to dude
people are doing 18s and have no idea what they are doing
they just go in and thunderclap
strong forum
Ya idk bout that
oblique garnet
I asked naowh to show his healing taken after they won the first mdi cup
Zaelia was just barely ahead of him
Even with the giga pulls they did
oblique garnet
Ofc they kill packs fast
strong forum
Normal keys packs don't live that long
oblique garnet
Everyone does
sand condor
competent groups are rare
oblique garnet
I dont get it how people are bad at dpsing
sick sentinel
me neither
so what I did
is I started playing the specs my dps player are playing
and researching about them
oblique garnet
Or bad at the game that is overly simplified right now
sick sentinel
when somebody complains
strong forum
My dps aren't bad perse, but they can't crakc the 40k overall
sick sentinel
I go like "BITCH I KNOW HOW YOUR CLASS WORKS"
strong forum
Only very rarely they crack 40k overall
oblique garnet
Yeah that was fun
sick sentinel
I gave in
oblique garnet
Now like this week i did a fh and could barely pull 2 pack on 20
sick sentinel
I replaced my one IF and my metriculus scheeming
with 2 DC
so I am 3 DC, 2 BoM and 1 gismo
strong forum
Eww
worthy dagger
shame on you
sick sentinel
idk I wanted to see how it is
I could have gone tripple DC the whole time
but I was refusing to do so
worthy dagger
u need triple Overwhelming power + meticulous
sick sentinel
but my healer complained that there was nothing to heak
strong forum
3x DC ewww
oblique garnet
3x BoM 3x Dc is very nice
strong forum
I'm running 2x BoM 1x BfI 1x DC 1x BS 1x Bomb
worthy dagger
if youre below 100% haste then its no gud 
strong forum
This
sick sentinel
it's so bad to play with
strong forum
In what sense
sick sentinel
like it procs at the worse times at the worse mobs when I want to move them
oblique garnet
Eww engi
sick sentinel
and hits the ground
sick sentinel
I swear by gismo with my blood and bone
strong forum
RNG isn't bad, but bomb is more fun for me
And I'm already running RAGE trinket and 2x OP, no need for even more haste
worthy dagger
theres never enough haste
strong forum
I know, but bombs is more dps than RNG so 🤷
oblique garnet
Eh
Gimme crit
I just want alot of crit but all i keep getting is vers/mastery gear
strong forum
1.2k crit 1.7k haste Chad here 👋
oblique garnet
Lucky bastard
oblique garnet
I have one socket 😃 (:
strong forum
Bis azerite, trinkets and weapon
oblique garnet
417 btw
oblique garnet
Only thing i can get upgrades without forges is 415 weapon and one trinket
oblique garnet
So you have 425 weapon and shield?
strong forum
420 shield
worthy dagger
😮
oblique garnet
And youre still going defensive traits?
strong forum
Fuck defensive traits
oblique garnet
Why you have bs and bfi then?
oblique garnet
🤔
worthy dagger
not so offensive then
strong forum
Well I thought you're talking non specific ring
Class traits is w/e, I just don't like more than 1 DC
Cuz it's just TC dmg and that's boring
I like to think of stacking DC to be a meme
Tbh
strong forum
Still don't like it
It's lost value in my eyes
And I just love engi helmet cuz of bombs op and the beyond broken absorbatron
it can take 1 hit NO MATTER how large, its not just 35k
spice ferry
I’m surprised absorbotron hasn’t been changed to be capped at 35k tbh
strong forum
Ye
Well it's hard to fix
Cuz it takes your hit, so the overkill would have to be redirected to you
However the hit is calculated after shields
Like you will lose IP, but will not lose health
worthy dagger
OP or Unstable Flames?
I just realized I have azerite to go triple Unstable Flames
spice ferry
Could have just made the trait give you a shield
And you take the rest
Same thing, no cheese
worthy dagger
but that would make people realize that all traits are basically the same but with different names
im still between 3x Overwhelming power or 3x Unstable Flames
oblique garnet
Unstable flames is better
strong forum
3x OP is better ye
worthy dagger
Which in return gives you more Avatar, etc..
strong forum
Haste has like double value of crit
For m+ damgur
For me haste is 4.84 dps increase and crit is 2.6
worthy dagger
i simmed both, 17k dps for haste / 18k for crit
strong forum
How much base crit do you have
strong forum
BTW are you simming patchwork or dungeon slice
worthy dagger
patch
worthy dagger
Yeah I feel like in general haste is better
strong forum
Like I said, almost twice the value of crit in m+
worthy dagger
29k dungeon
strong forum
Simming more than me lamo
marble vale
strong forum
Our resto sham is 420 equipped and has like 422 in bags... Lucky cunt
oblique garnet
Crit sims higher for me in m+
primal crypt
Crit is also god tier mitigation in m+
In melee heavy scenarios
Unstable flames uptime is the highest as well I believe, outside of the carapace
oblique garnet
Pretty much
primal crypt
Hai @oblique garnet :)
strong forum
Maybe I should give unstable a shot then
Although it still recommends me to use rezans over butcher stone
primal crypt
Same ilvl?
primal crypt
Thats why
strong forum
Literally tells me to use both haste trinkets
strong forum
Ye
primal crypt
Solid set up
strong forum
Running diamond tbh
primal crypt
Ah, pushing hard
strong forum
415 diamond 415 rage
strong forum
Diamond does so much, during haste procs it procs every 5 seconds
primal crypt
Yup, it's amazing mitigation
But if you're not afraid of dying at all
Rage rezan will let you clap harder
But yeah, unstable is a winner in my book
Although I do keep one overwhelming in my helmet due to engineering
My other two are flames
strong forum
If I run rezans ill legit hit 100% haste, I'm fine with 85%
primal crypt
You'll love 100% too
sick sentinel
Anything above 100% idc
I want my haste to be either below 101% or EXACTLY 200%
So my thunderclap cd becomes the same as my gcd
strong forum
Na I'm good, I'm not doing keys lower than 18 anyway, have my alts for that
mortal brook
i thought it was 167% where you had full sb uptime, and 100% for gcd cap. so 166% is not nearly enough, and anything above 168% is just absurd tbh
sick sentinel
Thunderclap on every single gcd tho
mortal brook
oooo you right
oblique garnet
@primal crypt heyo
primal crypt
@oblique garnet you pushing again?
weary veldt
dreamy umbra
Applellama you sure it's DC? bro
sick sentinel
Yes but no
For big thunderclaps
You want 3xBoM
After you get 3xBoM then you can go for DC for extra damage
wooden radish
@ionic fern if i do better than this, can i be stormforged?
sick sentinel
At least double digit
modern brook
8th percentil is p good fam :^)
old zephyr
As long as you do more Damages than the dd of6the raid you're golden
modern brook
Got a 80 parse on my subtlety heoric clear :^)
that puts me in the top 5 of all subs!
at 2 :^)
mortal brook
yup
modern brook
I'm something of a legend27, you know :^)
primal crypt
I r back at it again
I've been convinced to come back and do more mythic plus
Help me get to 3k plx
Honestly though, it's so disheartening when your group cant consistently do 20 keys
Let alone 21+
lusty grotto
😢
tacit solstice
Dw dude you just have to work up to it. Practice 😃
modern brook
@primal crypt i cant eve consistently do 15s :^(
primal crypt
:(
modern brook
:^) I can stand in :^)
modern brook
i literally have a 120 druid
primal crypt
Blasses
I want to see these dh changes
Dust off the old vengeance
If mitigation stays the same though on warrior, it's hard to beat
Not having to kite is beautiful
lusty grotto
i can introduce you yamo
modern brook
😠
lusty grotto
super friendly, always willing to run keys
its not me btw
obviously
ive been doing keys with his alt ele shammy
primal crypt
Is his name bullfango
modern brook
Its true
primal crypt
Arms for life
modern brook
But I'm trying to convert to an M+ man
primal crypt
I joined a group as arms the other day
lusty grotto
didnt run keys wednesday or yesterday
primal crypt
I was tilt
primal crypt
I beat them all
In dps
Barely lol
Arms needs catering and it isn't worth
Gutted so badly for m+
lusty grotto
dunno why sweeping is still 3 targets
WHILE BLADE FLURRY
IS EVERY TARGET UP TO AFRICA
lusty grotto
like who comes up with this shit
lusty grotto
hey lets have two identical abilities, but lets make warrior's weaker because god knows they don't need some more rogue like utility lmao
boy i cant wait to be depressed as fuck tonight
trying to get my key up again
better grab some alcohol on the way home
turbid robin
jovial haven
i am curious about this
lusty grotto
🤷
wind scroll
Hey guys.. as i am considering to come back to the game, i figured that i might as well go back to horde and level a warrior... Which race is better for that? i'm gonna go prot all the way.
I know that BE arcane torrent is kinda dope, but i'm not that familiar with horde racials tho.
autumn pendant
Too many loot sources, but not many relevant really. If you arent counting wf/tf
lusty grotto
Engineering is good @turbid robin , the helm is solid
autumn pendant
@wind scroll for looks and highest output zandalari troll
wind scroll
I don't have zandalari yet.. i stopped before the current raid released xD
autumn pendant
But it doesnt really matter and pick what you like most
lusty grotto
Just go whichever race you want, torrent is the best one for m+
Highest dps is indead
sick sentinel
@wind scroll the best race for prot is the one that you think look better
lusty grotto
Not zandalari
autumn pendant
I thought im in fury
wind scroll
Nah you're in prot bruh 😄
wind scroll
My question wasn't really aimed for sims tho... more like usefulness and utility through racials 😄
autumn pendant
If i was horde i would still go troll or orc though. Just cause they cool
🙃
New season may make torrent actually relevant again lol
lusty grotto
orc and mag'har has the added benefit of turning into dwarves in BoD so we can clear bleeds in conclave, but that's about it
autumn pendant
Now it is only nice bonus
lusty grotto
yeah or having my current healer actually not afk for 2 hours and agree to do a key
"oh i did 12 shrines this week already"...... what the fuck?
primal crypt
Bolstering actually isnt bad anymore
lusty grotto
bro you were raiding tues through thurs
autumn pendant
Boralus though
primal crypt
Boralus you bolster on purpose
lusty grotto
either the druid forget to re-root, or a random rogue for some reason decides to kill it... or simply, people not putting spot marks on mobs
(or tentacles)
autumn pendant
I almost always fail on 2 packs before first bos
umbral forge
Any EU guy wanna do a key or two or three?
lusty grotto
i had a spotter disengage into the water on tuesday
i thought, damn
that's actually good
explosive orb spawns
FUCK
umbral forge
@sand condor
lusty grotto
frantically spams heroic throw
sand condor
hi?
umbral forge
We doing keys get in
sand condor
wait what when where
umbral forge
just log in
modern brook
I need to run 10s today still 🤷
sand egret
I had the most miserable key experience last night, been a long time since I've "noped" out at the first boss but boy was this rough
super nice bunch, but sometimes you look at the numbers and just say "not on Tyr week"
sand egret
this was TD
lusty grotto
guess what happened on the coven
you know that jackie chan meme?
that was my face
😦
sand egret
like when you see your DH open up hard....on Malady
lusty grotto
the funny part is that my brother actually healed the aoe
you know the insane, you get 1 shotted because you don't have the dps for this aoe?
modern brook
Ur brother healing is the best part of running with you
cause its just 3 other people ragging on how shit he is at healing
sand egret
LOL
lusty grotto
hes actually doing real well now, has been doing keys constantly
healed galvazzt 16 np
sand egret
gotta check out ChipBro
sick sentinel
Hi everyone, I'm considering leveling a warrior when I unlock the Zandalari, is leveling fun with a prot warrior?
modern brook
I'ma god resto druid tbh
but @primal crypt wont fucking run me
@sick sentinel Warrior in general is a pretty fun spec to level
lusty grotto
i cant say ayelin, i leveled 1-60 in vanilla
sand egret
I thought about healing as Resto. Seems interesting, but ya know what's comin..... 🐻
lusty grotto
and consequently in each expansion :p
modern brook
Being r druid is great cause u dont do anything
lusty grotto
id imagine its similar to any other class that has a tank sec :p
sand egret
leveling as a tank spec is super fun because you can pull the whole quest in one go
modern brook
its like playing feral 'cept sometimes u need to tranquility
"oof ow healer im hurt"
sand egret
yeah the catweaving thing is SUPER interesting to me
lusty grotto
MAN UP IM PUTTING KITTY DOTS IN
modern brook
u have rejuv and efflo; plz stop getting hit by random garbage 🤷
sick sentinel
OK, i will try that, I'm not yet exalted. Thanks guys!
sand egret
pro-tip: pull as big as you can while leveling so you can actually "practice" using your defensive stuff
lusty grotto
new warrior
blade says pull entire quest
yeah theres no way that's gonna fail spectacularly
lusty grotto
lmao
modern brook
Imagine using rage on anything besides revenge in end game content 🤷
sand egret
in the Avatar
sick sentinel
Well, I'll learn the hard way...
lusty grotto
😄
sand egret
what kinda tank doesn't do something cuz they may die
modern brook
lol dying in 2019
sand egret
cuz we're all bears
gaunt dawn
there should be full on rage
sand egret
so its just buffffs
gaunt dawn
😡
lusty grotto
why
modern brook
honestly who cares
gaunt dawn
D:
sand egret
yeah, i'm welcoming it tbh
modern brook
^ I'm going to play the spec regardless
lusty grotto
🎊
primal crypt
Lel
modern brook
if i dont have to say no leech isnt worth ilvl ill consider it a buff
lusty grotto
🎆
primal crypt
@me
sand egret
it's a buff to Skyhold QoL
modern brook
^
lusty grotto
imagine no more leech questions
modern brook
#protection can go back to being #food
lusty grotto
imagine
imagine no more streamer fanboys saying guides are wrong
just imagine!
i can't wait
sand egret
buzzlightyear.png
modern brook
PLus lets be honest
Our scaling is rediculous
and most number nerfs will probably just keep us in check
sand egret
4x overall output increase on an ability is....suspect to say the least.
sand egret
block is nuts but that's what we've been saying since the jump so /shrug
autumn pendant
@lusty grotto what you mean, what did they mention being wrong in guides?
primal crypt
Drop ilvl for leech
autumn pendant
curious
primal crypt
You lived off three smashes?
sand egret
@autumn pendant the top "refutes" are:
- Stat priority and "haste caps" (THANKS LEPAN)
- Leech.
- Traits
modern brook
I didnt even take half my health through 3 smashes
Between block and Misweaver bubble
modern brook
(in fairness it was a wipe call)
sand egret
it was legit painful to read
cuz it wasn't "wrong" it just...didn't mention anything of substance
modern brook
haste only has so much usefulness because eventually i can just have sb up anyways :^)
Its a guide written by a guy who is a good player that doesnt understand the class
Like his conclusions show a deep misunderstanding of how the spec functions under the hood
sand egret
yeah, it was a good generic guide on the value of mitigation but then it goes off into the world of "caps" and a misguided emphasis on its importance with no mention of other benefits (arguably removing the "cap" as well)
but as a primer guide on wowhead.....not the right info to put infront of the droves of new rerollers.
sand egret
i'm pretty sure this analogy fits perfectly:
Leech is to @lusty grotto as Viable is to Bladesong
lusty grotto
50%party
viable
leech
hmm... what other good memes are we missing here
you know
we will probably have to go back to the whole viable thing
sand egret
yeah...
lusty grotto
lol
sand egret
yo you got that clip of what's his name doing FH with no armor on?
i can't seem to find it
lusty grotto
naowh?
sand egret
yeah that's his name
modern brook
@sand egret changing the defacto pin from no to yes is going to be such a welcome change in 8.2
as we move from "no, you dont sacrifice ilvl for leech" to "yes, prot is still viable through the nerf"
sand egret
rood
lusty grotto
kaege is a saint
sand egret
thanks
lusty grotto
even removes thumbnail
sand egret
🙏
lusty grotto
👍
astral crystal
lusty grotto
Yay no more rerolls yay
sand egret
I kinda still hope they keep VDH more punishing so people still get wrecked
primal crypt
I hope they take extra dmg when demon spikes is up
sand egret
its a fun spec, I hope they keep the nuance of it but it sounds like they know what to hit
jovial haven
all these people getting dh tanks and bears ready forbseason 3 when prot pally will be the meta LOL
opal peak
Long live prot war
narrow abyss
Thank god
neon tangle
Implying everyone won’t just go back to BDK
atomic copper
its actually going to be a bit more balanced going best to worst:
top: prot war, blood dk
jovial haven
well according to sloot the idea they are tossing around for season 3 is a single target affix
autumn pendant
inb4 they nerf Gorfiends grasp
atomic copper
mid: druid, prot pally
autumn pendant
but we know that aint gonna happem
atomic copper
and dh is trying
neon tangle
@atomic copper I wouldn’t bet a ton on prot warrior being on top
Going from AoE affix to ST will be a HUGE nerf to prot relatively speaking
Getting it’s damage nerfed will leave it with the utility it already has
hasty quarry
will still be ok tho, lets be honest
sand egret
perception is going to play a part in this
atomic copper
@neon tangle itll hit us, but the mitigtion we have is still crazy compared to most tanks
sand egret
as it tends to snowball in the direction. Numerically we'll be fine, but I totally see "Prot was only gud cuz of AoE and now they're trash" coming out
neon tangle
^^^
atomic copper
good. that way all the fotm players will stop
neon tangle
Prot mitigation was pretty good in s1 too, certainly better than BDK
sand egret
Block is Block
neon tangle
But “garbage tier”
sand egret
shit is dope and as long as high-profile abilities can be blocked/reflected......
we're going to have a strength
atomic copper
itll probably go back to bm monk being top for raid as usual
sand egret
if 8.2 just ends up being an AoE magical shitfest...well that ain't on us
atomic copper
the large caster packs from reaping are already painfull enough
neon tangle
You also have the effect like you’ve seen for BDK where all the top tanks roll with the meta
So whatever tank is considered “good” dominates the leaderboards
Simply due to most top players choosing them
Anyways, will be interesting to see what happens
neon tangle
I wouldn’t bet on any particular class being on top
sand egret
but here's to hoping that it ends up actually being in a much better spot
atomic copper
with the expected nerfs/buffs for tanks honestly you have 3-4 to choose depending on what you need without sacrificing to much
sand egret
nip the top and buff the bottom is a good approach
Prot Pally will prob rise up but hey, it's simply their time to be on top
atomic copper
the only picks that would be "risky" would be guardian and dh but they are not unplayable
ornate wagon
BEARS WILL REIGN
atomic copper
VDH is a balancing nightmare on a dev side
ornate wagon
i wanna see guardians at the top
primal crypt
But people cant handle the amount of sigils they have
Literally seen people never use them
lime mantle
I don’t. Guardian is the worst to play.
sand egret
i mean, going off their comments....if they get love in their baseline mitigation they won't be in a bad spot at all
primal crypt
Because too much work
ornate wagon
Guardian is relaxing
lime mantle
Sigils are great tbh
sand egret
guardian is just gcd spam but I love it
lime mantle
I just forget to keep up flame.
MOBILITY IS NOT FOR DPS REEEEEE
ornate wagon
Thrash, Mangle, Swipe, Swipe, rinse, lather, repeat
lime mantle
Guardian feels like prot 0.5
atomic copper
@sand egret where it gets messy is balancing that with their self healing, cause the shards work off % dmg taken like dk and have base max health healing off of the abilities
ornate wagon
if the give guardians rage generation like warriors have... 4 stacks of IF at all times GG
dense flame
Honestly they should give DH something mechanically that works like our block uptime
And balance the other tanks similarly
Then no issues
With any tank
sand egret
eh, like a massive problem with VDH is the inconsistency with their damage intake in/out of DS causing you to have to run...which further nerfs your secondary reactive mitigation, souls
lime mantle
But active mitigation was basically Hitler and Stalin mixed together
t. Blizzard after wod
lime mantle
^
sand egret
so a baseline look at armor outside of DS would make those inner DS moments even better, which in turn would allow you to properly set up good souls moments
lime mantle
Meta is a joke of a “big” cd too
dense flame
What made legion meta awesome
sand egret
baseline armor increases ALSO increases Meta
dense flame
Was extra hp and armor during meta
sand egret
so its a good place to start with the fix
they don't have stagger to stop spikiness despite being a leather tank
dense flame
I love DH mechanics and mob control
sand egret
so time to react is super low
sand egret
which leads to tanking which hurts its ability to heal, etc.
dense flame
Compared to warrior you just go ham
sand egret
yeah, baseline armor would go a long way
dense flame
Agreed. And they can buff the healing to deal with spike
sand egret
making Soul Cleave worth it is also a total numbers thing
austere oar
and all these mobility/utilities are useless in raid leaving them a trash tier tank with a shit AM
atomic copper
additionally you could just set spikes to a constant mitigation like ironfur or brew and modify the kit around it
dense flame
Cause 2x fracture can lead to some issues I think with soul bomb no? Cause yeah soul cleave shit
sand egret
yeah, but I think they wanna keep it more akin to SB moments
and less like a maintence thing
but that's just nuance
well a big issue is that Soul Bomb is just straight up better.
and that just feels like shit having a button that is just plain worse
austere oar
SC is only good for dumping pain after SBing
austere oar
they should have some kind of refund over pain spent like our AM talent
over FB, Meta and DS
sand egret
for a flashy as it is....yeah
i mean getting your DH to level 6 in wc3 was game-ending......
and then this...
austere oar
or changing the armor bonus for a flat dmg reduction
like shield wall, in addition to the 30% hp
or give it DS for the whole meta uptime
lime mantle
What about making immolation aura permanent?
It won’t fix anything and won’t make more issues so I feel it’d be the Blizzard way.
austere oar
well the good thing about immo aura is the initial proc
sand egret
they’d have to redo that talent
which sounds like not something they’re planning for this
lime mantle
I was memeing, if that wasn’t obvious.
VDH needs a full on rework.
Also why the fuck is the joke known as fiery brand on the gcd FUCK.
austere oar
but idk, 2 out of their 3 CDs are based on armor which DHs have fuck all since they're leather
sand egret
but that CDR HoA ability that allows us to further reduce Avatar and similar big CDs is going to be fun
lime mantle
Inb4 total gutting like Nighthold patch
Also to this day I find weird demon hunters, the guys who hunt demons aka spellcasters on crack have zero (0) ways to mitigate magic other than taking it to the chest with pride.
woven trellis
did they up ilvl of mm+ loots during s1?
can we expect an up prior to s3 or we have to wait til s3
mortal brook
theres the standard 'heroic raid is out but waiting on mythic' where its grind 5~6s for ilvl, but that was still start of season
austere oar
There won't be a lvl up from m+ loots
jovial haven
i believe they said ilvl will increase with season 3
austere oar
Until s3
analog swift
@austere oar sorry to tag but you mentioned something about having good utility but shit AM in raids. This got me thinking I wonder how people would feel about having instanced abilities in keys? Balanced the game around raids then tune a few things around keys? I wonder how people would feel about that
jovial haven
i don't think that would work so well, as more people run m+ than raid
sterile notch
Would have to be something really simple, such as replacing your filler
austere oar
They cant do that bc balancing takes also into consideration pvp, arenas, open world, m+, raiding
analog swift
wouldn't have to make anything big but for example the recent DK nerfs could have just made them in keys or something
i just feel like it would make balancing SO much easier
can balance each thing individually
also I know tier sets are gone but holy fuck would i have killed for an M+ tier set
that's focused on CC n shit
jovial haven
there really isn't gonna be a balance were something isn't broken in one way or another
analog swift
of course not and VDH/guardian are shit in everything
austere oar
Unfortunately it's still important to have some kind of meta in a game, it's what keeps the players in
But some classes are left behind for way too long
ornate wagon
so, what is a good single target dps? I feel like in multi target im killing it, but my ST is complete crap
im 414 ilvl with a 410 weapon if that matters
jovial haven
there isn't a reason to leave any class/spec so far behind for so long other than laziness or incompetence
ornate wagon
im not, but im new lol
analog swift
I think pally actually can pull ahead in ST
ornate wagon
within cooldown windows I can hit 14-15k, but outside of that im pulling like 10-11k
austere oar
Yeah while sacrificing all their defensive capabilities they can I think
analog swift
i mean that's only really going seraphim tho yeah?
austere oar
Yeah but that plays a big part
ornate wagon
my raid parses are abysmal, im still learning to keep damage up while doing mechanics lol, bear was too easy and its all I played previously
austere oar
Like we have big dips and we dont sacrifice anything for it
Maybe you have logs @ornate wagon that could help
little grotto
Or you could play a dps class 
austere oar
Well tank dps is also very important
oblique garnet
Why are we talking about fixed to vdh
lusty grotto
10 to 14k is reasonably decent @ornate wagon
oblique garnet
And @primal crypt no i havent been pushing i dont enjoy the game as much anymore
little grotto
This is the vdh discord duh
ornate wagon
thats in m+ nimchip, in raid im like 8-10k ST
lusty grotto
Uhh
ornate wagon
but oooh those trash packs, 70k+ rofl
ornate wagon
jadefire masters i pulled 8.5k and it was gross
lusty grotto
It's not too far off
ornate wagon
but i died twice
lusty grotto
Uhhh why, don't you stack em?
austere oar
The stacking at pull + lust should give you a good lead
ornate wagon
we do, it was our first kill, my parse will get better, for ST i prioritize shield slam over everything, thunderclap on CD, and use revenge procs
lusty grotto
Yeah except it's not an ST fight heh, technically
ornate wagon
usually i never get more than two filler gcds
oblique garnet
I do 14-19k st depending if i can sit on the boss (grong) for example not getting thrown etc
austere oar
Dont forget to not use SB when tanking mage
ornate wagon
oh im the offtank on grong, half that fight im flying through the air lol
lusty grotto
You do want SB for the damage though
austere oar
I'm doing like 11k on grong as OT feelsbadman
ornate wagon
oh i tank mage more than other tank, and its SR + IP, and it still hurts
lusty grotto
Also keep in mind keeping demo on is a dps boost
radiant raven
austere oar
I like stormbolt in raid also
lusty grotto
sick sentinel
Yeah, not a much of a use for it though
lusty grotto
👀
austere oar
Well yeah, Rastakhan only 😅
sick sentinel
But yeah, stormbolt is better
red wedge
If I stack leech, will it make me a more viable warrior?
red wedge
damnit!
oblique garnet
Dont be toxic nim
lusty grotto
bonus quote of the day
oblique garnet
Kagan is secretly kage
lusty grotto
☑ quote of the day done
oblique garnet
You heard it here first folks
chilly brook
They put out more info on class changes in 8.2 yet?
lusty grotto
they've put 0 info
chilly brook
Cool
lusty grotto
people are making up any class changes
oblique garnet
Its all rumors
sick sentinel
Who's kagan
oblique garnet
Yeah you would say that wouldnt you
lusty grotto
the only thing that's out are neck powers
chilly brook
I wasn’t interested in seeing how they wanted to change DH tanks anyways
ornate wagon
wait, on m+ packs why cant you have SB and IP spam going at the same time?
sick sentinel
You can
chilly brook
You can
warm plinth
Blizz hasn't put out anything. Content creators have vaguely mentioned possible things they might have seen and people are embellishing it and sharing it like gospel - as usual.
lusty grotto
that's the quote of the day