π
#protection
glacial gulch
sick sentinel
@lusty grotto in the formula it's <1 yeah?
This is bullshit, u can only have 1 map treausure quest active at a time
sick sentinel
@lusty grotto for any K below the accepted values, what's the downside
lusty grotto
huh
sick sentinel
yeah but like do you get sudden spikes in damage intake?
lusty grotto
where are you getting 6300 from
sick sentinel
myself
lusty grotto
..
you can't get k values
they are set in stone
M0/M+: 8467.2 (x1.344)
BfD/Shrine LFR: 8467.2 (x1.344)
BfD/Shrine Normal: 9311.4 (x1.478)
BfD/Shrine Heroic: 10275.3 (x1.631)
BfD/Shrine Mythic: 11390.4 (x1.808)```im just asking, if a value is below the M0/M+ bracket for instance
what's the problem
sick sentinel
my shield is 350
lusty grotto
so?
sick sentinel
hey guys is there a excel or a page that shows what is blockable and what isnt when using shield block ?
like trash of a dungeon or boss to boss kinda thing
rigid stream
got lockjaw shoulders as 415
rigid stream
you would run a 3rd DC over a second BoM correct?
rigid stream
only m+
lusty grotto
there are better traits for raid
rigid stream
so i think i been doing it wrong then, so BoM > DC at already 1 DC?
lusty grotto
this is all in the icy veins guide btw
plush thorn
Why is nerf aiming for triple bastion, double bloodsport, single deafening?
lusty grotto
ask him
im sure he can reply to his twitch chat
but his choices are correct
except for necrotic week
plush thorn
not worth taking an IF?
lusty grotto
bloodsport? not in any situation
he does so because he has a retarded amount RNG luck for leech pieces on his gear
plush thorn
gotcha
lusty grotto
he also explained it a bit better, im sure others can mention the reasons especially @oblique garnet
what he picks does not apply to you
or the gearing choices he makes
IF is stronger than bloodsport
queen flame
with my haste at 15% before into the fray should I use the alch trink and rezans or the alch trink and gore-crusted butchers block?
rezans at 390 and gore crusted at 400
sick sentinel
gore because it is higher ilvl
queen flame
ok sweet thanks
oblique garnet
hm?
@plush thorn nerf has like 12-14% leech in his gear so he benefits alot from going 2x BS but overall its not worth unless you have gigantic luck and get ridiculous amount of leech without dropping ilvl
plush thorn
thank you @oblique garnet
hidden ether
hey azerite question I have enough for a random 415. i have bought a random for each at 415 and havent really gotten lucky on any of them. currently for M+ rocking helm BFI/BS Shoulder DC/CR Chest DC/BS. No BoM as an option. Should I roll another random or save up?
I dont mythic raid besides the first boss currently if that matters
warm plinth
Are your existing pieces 415?
hidden ether
yeah all 415
warm plinth
Then I guess it's up to you. Your traits aren't bad; they're just not the optimal M+ setup. I would personally probably roll again because I don't think I could force myself to spend that much residuum on one specific piece.
oblique garnet
Dont roll a chest piece if youre doing first boss on mythic weekly
hidden ether
Is that first piece good/
orchid token
i dontk now of any classes for which saving up is the best expected value
hidden ether
oh yeah it is just shitty center ring traits
orchid token
at least half of the possible pieces are good, so you get more expected value from rolling
lusty grotto
center ring traits do not matter in the scope of things
oblique garnet
Outlaw rogue has one piece
warm plinth
If it was like 2x as much for a specific piece, I would probably save. But over 4x as much is unreasonable.
hidden ether
I mean i get they are not super important but 1k HPS from impasive is nothign to laugh at
tacit solstice
Anyone else think our damage is going to get nerfed? i pulled 29.7k overall in a 20 shrine last week lol
lusty grotto
no
warm plinth
They matter to the point where you want to pick the best one, but you're never going to pick a piece based on them unless the class traits are good on both.
lusty grotto
and its futile discussing hypotheticals
potent anvil
Even if our damage is nerfed, we're still one of the strongest tanks in the game currently at a mitigation standpoint. The damage portion of prot warr is the meme.
oblique garnet
Anger management is probably getting nerfed
lusty grotto
agreed deswind
orchid token
I would prefer to see the unstoppable force damage bonus cut from 100% to 50%
oblique garnet
Its the most logical nerf tbh
orchid token
I think doing that solves most of the extreme DPS issues
while retaining everything else that makes the spec good and fun
tacit solstice
Good point deswind
warm plinth
Same Necrys. I would hate to see AM nerfed because it would mess up the feel of the spec. Whereas a UF nerf would just be the same thing with lower results
oblique garnet
If blizzard touches am its gonna nerf both
Because atm angermanagement is ridiculous
hidden ether
So would you roll helm or shoulder then?
oblique garnet
Shoulders
orchid token
anger management is ridiculous offensively but defensively i dont think there's an issue
its strong but hardly OP
lusty grotto
you realize how good demo shout it for mitigating damage?
orchid token
sure, but the class is built around that. the moment shield block drops and you don't have a defensive to fill the gap you get hit for half your health
orchid token
i'd rather see them weaken the power of the avatar burst windows than make them available less often, offensively
warm plinth
Why do you think Anger Management will take the hit @oblique garnet?
oblique garnet
Because atm we are too strong both offensively and defensively
It fixes both issues with one stone without affecting threat gen too much
strong cape
Anybody here past 12% leech? That's what I'm sitting at right now.
warm plinth
I don't even know what leech I'm at; that's how little leech matters. π
jkjk, but if you have that much on your highest ilevel gear, that's pretty cool
sick sentinel
If they nerf AM it's gonna be how much rage u spend for a reduced time
orchid token
i might be wrong, but it seems on first instinct that the only time you're doing enough damage to generate meaningful leech will be during avatar burst windows, and during that you don't need healing since you're not taking any damage anyway
but im not as experienced with warrior yet
oblique garnet
12% leech is alot
sick sentinel
Almost unnecessary
lusty grotto
if youre at 12% leech without sacrificing ilvl, you should consider going nerf's build
warm plinth
Are you gearing specifically to get that though?
orchid token
hypthetically it probably takes the place of some of your ignore pains and allows for a few more revenges, so that's not bad
warm plinth
Like is that with 3x Bloodsport + Siphoning or is that just from gear?
oblique garnet
20k hps on big pulls is easily achieveable without leech tho
orchid token
as long as you're not dropping ilvl for the leech that would be good
but if you're dropping ilvl to wear leech items you're probably hurting yourself more than its helping
strong cape
I'm 410 ilvl. It's all my highest ilvl gear
orchid token
thats incredibly lucky
potent anvil
Last stand is a huge amount of hps burst which will reflect on the meters. I usually hover around 11-12k hps in huge pulls with 0 leech.
oblique garnet
Just stop
warm plinth
Even with high Leech, why would you go Siphoning?
Just curious...
I feel like the haste from Quick nav is still > 2.5% leech
lusty grotto
its only worth it cause he has enough passive leech
warm plinth
And having high leech doesn't make the 2.5% leech more powerful, so I don't get the logic.
oblique garnet
@potent anvil youre not running diamond right?
warm plinth
There's no reason to sacrifice Quick Nav for Siphoning though, even if you have high leech.
potent anvil
No I don't run diamond
strong cape
Well, I bought two of the pieces. The back and the boots, both 415 w/ leech.
lusty grotto
yeah you're right ghash
warm plinth
Unless you just want to push the meme as far as it'll go I guess, but that's all it would be
lusty grotto
in fact the haste increase would overall lead to more hps
lusty grotto
its good, i always log
warm plinth
It's worth it, as long as you're looking at the right things
oblique garnet
I cant logπ
vocal skiff
I have a nagging feeling that my block time should be way higher than it is
warm plinth
What, why not?
oblique garnet
Makes my fps go to 9
vocal skiff
that I take too much damage when I shouldn't
warm plinth
Yikes!
vocal skiff
before committing
oblique garnet
Idk it started after 8.1
potent anvil
@oblique garnet Why you ask? I use diamond for fortified KR for zul and tyrannical ML for last 2 bosses. But overall, I don't run it.
oblique garnet
Yeah just curious cause your avg hps seemed tad low on bigger pulls
Compared to mine anyways
lusty grotto
after 8.1... hmm... are you manually logging or do you have an addon that manages it
oblique garnet
The warcraftlogs one
potent anvil
Usually its higher in the middle of the pull because of Last Stand and IP, but it drops
Maybe I'm not recalling right so it could be higher than what I stated. But I don't really pay too much attention to it.
oblique garnet
If its like a 2-3pack pull i end up around 20k hps
potent anvil
Probably around there then. I wouldn't know I don't look at hps lol
oblique garnet
I just look at it to meme my healer that he should outheal a prot warrior xD
warm plinth
@oblique garnet Have you done a test without addons enabled to see if maybe one of them is causing it? Or checked your combatlog file (could be getting really big if you never clear it).
warm plinth
I have ElvUI and I don't lag when logging
oblique garnet
I have to test it at somepoint
lusty grotto
same i use elvui
oblique garnet
If i die i know that i fucked up at somepoint
Dunno what else i could get out from logging it
lusty grotto
well yeah
warm plinth
There are other ways to screw up that don't involve death as a result :p
I enjoy logging just to see if there are any mistakes I'm making that I don't realize
oblique garnet
Well yeah the mistakes on prot are usually fairly obvious
Everytime you take a big chunk of damage out of something you shouldnt have etc etc
warm plinth
Just log damnit
oblique garnet
But why
warm plinth
Lol, I like how I'm sitting here arguing about logging, like I can't log if you don't or some shit
π
oblique garnet
Just log so you people can take a look at my logs or xD
warm plinth
Yeah how am I supposed to learn to be a goodboi prot if I can't look at your logs
oblique garnet
You go one clap two clap three clap and guess again one more clap
orchid token
ive never felt the difficulty of prot to be anything about knowing what to do
warm plinth
Did you see the meme I made in #off-topic ?
orchid token
conceptually it does not get simpler than protw
warm plinth
Well, the meme that I commandeered I guess is more accurate
orchid token
just the reliable execution is the harder part and looking at logs wont give that to you
only practise
oblique garnet
I rarely check anything other than protection
warm plinth
vocal skiff
If you identify a mistake, like low block uptime
You can get into the dungeon with that mindset
to do better
warm plinth
I know, I'm just giving Late shit about logging is all π
vocal skiff
Oh, I know, just talking to necrys
warm plinth
Oh, my bad lol.
orchid token
@vocal skiff reviewing your own logs is obviously valuable
i meant looking at someone else's
vocal skiff
Oh, I see
orchid token
there's no great insight you'll get from looking at another warrior's logs that you won't get by just 5mins of reading the basics in a guide
vocal skiff
You are right
orchid token
i prhased my initial thing poorly
oblique garnet
Honestly tho
Theres one mvp thing that every prot warrior should have
Maroks blocktracker weakaura
vocal skiff
Yeah, it is great
And to this day, I keep overlapping sometimes on the account of muscle memory
LA and Shield Block
I curse myself every time I do it
lol
orchid token
i dont use it but i modified my CD tracker WA to do the same thing
well, not quite
just changed last stand's icon for its WA to shield block's icon
oblique garnet
Yeah that would workout aswell
sick sentinel
@potent anvil where is 
?
orchid token
i have a really big WA that works for multiple classes
just keep adding buffs to it as they become necessary to track
oblique garnet
I have multiple weakaura packages for basically every class
potent anvil
oblique garnet
Yes
warm plinth
But specifically, what does it track? Just how much you've blocked?
oblique garnet
It shows you when you have your sb/bolster up
warm plinth
Oh
oblique garnet
And how mant seconds left on it
warm plinth
See, why can't everyone make nice, simple WAs like that
I've tried like 8 of those WA suites that some folks swear by and I always find that they're missing what I want and have all this extra shit that just leaves me wondering why anyone needs that
oblique garnet
I really like naowhs weakauras
warm plinth
I've been meaning to put in the effort to learn a bit more about WA to make my own, but it's not the most intuitive thing in the world. And a lot of the cool stuff seems to be only doable through the whatever language coding
white hamlet
all you need is really simple ones really
weakauras pretty much makes them for you now
with the templates
warm plinth
Yeah that's what I usually do
Tbh I don't use many WAs. I think the only one I even have active right now is one that glows when Draught of Ten Lands expires on my alts π
modern brook
oblique garnet
My man
white hamlet
no hope for that one
oblique garnet
Thats the op build
warm plinth
What's wrong with that @modern brook? That's the 50% party build
supple path
That synergy for snaring them with dragon's roar in your ravager.
warm plinth
Exactly
warm plinth
lol
orchid token
is it worth going to the effort of balancing stats if its all equal ilvl orj ust go haste/crit or haste/mastery on everything
presuming equal ilv
haste/crit is going to be the better dps option
but i cant imagine the gap is that big
orchid token
this is TR related so apart from the mastery on the neck its possible to have literally 0 vers and mastery in favour of haste and crit if i want it
warm plinth
I think Late determined that the haste/vers set was the best one for damage
@oblique garnet Mind confirming that so I'm not misquoting ^
sick sentinel
You are misquoting
exotic spoke
suckers..... Got to sit on rekill and now I get to go to sleep
sick sentinel
Most damage done/least damage taken was crit heavy/haste
sick sentinel
Like 25% haste before itf and the rest crit
He came back later dude
After more testing
warm plinth
Then I'm wrong. I wasn't arguing with you; just correcting my original quote. Β―_(γ)_/Β―
sick sentinel
Yeah, just correcting your correction π
warm plinth
Thank you sir! Definitely don't want to be spreading wrong shit π¬
sick sentinel
Haste crit for everything except shrine and ML then
oblique garnet
Pretty much
sick sentinel
You ever get that thing where you are thinking one thing but you are writing another thing
sick sentinel
Atal why?
warm plinth
If someone talks to me in the middle of typing, sometimes I start typing what I want to say back to them instead of what I meant to type π
sick sentinel
Just parry the bleed
sick sentinel
You only need to kill one honor guard, right?
oblique garnet
If you have a rogue yes
sick sentinel
Even with invis pot
My route consists of killing the saurids of the middle pack for the last 2.02%
oblique garnet
Yeah theres many atal routes
Im actually curious about the new route
Allows atal to be done in 15 minutes
willow scarab
Surely not? Whatβs the route
oblique garnet
@potent anvil you know anything about that
I have no idea
Its the one top teams used in mdi
willow scarab
Iβve been doing the start where you do 3rd reaping and jump down to rezan
Feels nice but definitely not 15 even 20 minute nice
oblique garnet
Yeah its around the same time for that and the default one
potent anvil
What's up?
oblique garnet
You know the giga route to blast atal in 15 minutes?
I know that much that it involves snapping
potent anvil
I have an idea of what it is, but I haven't confirmed it with teams that have done it on TR.
sick sentinel
I mean how big can you pull with explosive
teal kelp
Yo, so for raid what is the Devastator vs. Booming Voice arguement? I've been running Booming Voice 24/7, but then was looking at logs and see a lot of people running Devastator
oblique garnet
Gotta wait till the first mdi cups are over so drjays team will show the video of their run
sick sentinel
@teal kelp devastator is worse defensively, it's just pad for logs
warm plinth
Devastator is for parsing on pure ST fights; that's it. Booming Voice is still better in general and for all situations where more than one target is present.
orchid token
im assuming the 15 min atal strat involved using the pillar snap on the bridges and then LOSing explosives
teal kelp
yea, i really like the rage generation of booming voice
oblique garnet
Yeah for sure it involves that
But like
15 minutes is still insanely fast regardless
On an 18
orchid token
my guess is you run around with lightfoot and pull the entire bridge area minus the 3 middle dudes and snap it all to pillar
or the rogues tricks it all to you
and then group LOS the fears while tank zerkers them
sick sentinel
@teal kelp booming voice generates more rage per min compared to devs devastator
orchid token
and you kill the whole pack before the next fear
potent anvil
@oblique garnet there's a snap spot where you can easily sidestep to LoS explosives were they to spawn but I'm not sure if that's what they've been using or not. I'm not participating but I fooled around in there to try stuff.
oblique garnet
Yeah im aware of that
But even if you pull all that
Each boss takes around 2 minutes to kill on 18 fort
orchid token
priestess with all her trash
oblique garnet
Its still a 2 minute fight
orchid token
yeah but you're clearing trash during it
oblique garnet
Then theres travel time from bosses etc
dim blaze
I get a bit confused on azerite stacking. 2x BfI 1x BfI and 1x BoM better for raid tanking?
Should say 2x BfI OR 1x BfI and 1x BoM
potent anvil
There's a route to go priestess first since you can skystep+shroud before the colossus pack even comes down the stairs to avoid its detection. I doubt that's what people have done but I dunno.
sick sentinel
For raids, @dim blaze you mainly want a single BoM
But it's not that big of a deal
oblique garnet
Oh yeah if you do that
sick sentinel
I would go bfi
oblique garnet
You get to kill the priestess open the gates
Then you can snap everything from middle
Since rogues dont lose damage killing explosives aswell
white hamlet
devastator isnt just for pad logs lol
its pretty dumb to just blanket statement that
its THE single target talent considering if you are playing the game even remotely correctly you dont need to play defensively in the slightest
if you're progging on mythic jaina and running BV you're just playing sub-optimally
and trying to justify it
oblique garnet
π€ care to elaborate
white hamlet
the rage gain on bv compared to devastator people just assume bv gives more rage
therefore is better defensively
the rage from bv is only 40, shield slam is 15
patent flower
Devestator worth taking?
white hamlet
you get significantly more shield slam procs with devastator
3 slams is more rage than 1 demo shout
primal sable
pretty sure people mathed this out
white hamlet
you without a doubt get more than 3 slams per demo shout window while doing significantly more damage
next goblet
correct me if im wrong but ignore pain still is NOT your main mitigation.. correct?
warm plinth
Correct.
next goblet
thats what i thought
someone tried telling our backup warrior tank he needs to use ignore pain over shield block..
and im like "nooooo no no no"
dusky sentinel
But Pumps. If u have Anger management, demo shout is on a shorter cd etc. u get the point
white hamlet
yes i do
oblique garnet
Demoshout is around 20 second cd
white hamlet
thats doesnt me you wont get less than 3 bonus slams in the ~20s window
oblique garnet
40 on demand rage every 20 second
You also get alot of shield slam resets from other sources aswell
next goblet
BV > devastator
white hamlet
ontop of the large single target dps increase on bosses that do literally 0 tank damage
it also means you use your demo shout on points where you actually need it
instead of just on cd for the rage
oblique garnet
I can see it from the damage perspective that devastator beats it out but on rage gen i doubt it
white hamlet
my point is the rage gen is on par if not high on average single target
and the math is very wrong
steel mauve
It would be nearly impossible for deve to beat bv on rage gen
sick sentinel
The thing I am going to give to deva
Is if you are ruining bfi
Like multiples of them
white hamlet
this is purely single target
warm plinth
But you're talking about getting 3 procs in a 20 second window that you might (and likely would have) gotten without Devastator. Or do you mean 3 "extra" procs on top of what you would already get?
dusky sentinel
If u put in GCD, rng, anger management and ofc micro skills. U will get an answer. And i think that answer will be equal or worse. But as pointed. dmg wise might be better. BV also has 15% dmg increase
warm plinth
Because procs that you would have already gotten don't contribute to Devastator giving you more rage
steel mauve
You would need to use the ss resets that were specifically given from deve, and if a tc or revenge reset over rides the deve reset then its not counted by the rage gen from deve
white hamlet
purely deva bonus procs, sure you can run bv and assume you proc ss every other gcd
oblique garnet
20% chance on aa/ every other gcdπ€
warm plinth
3 procs isn't every other gcd though; that's embellishing. How many procs do you get when running Devastator vs without? And is it consistent? Do you ever overwrite them with other ability procs? That all has to be taken into account.
white hamlet
thats hypothetical
dusky sentinel
on another note. does druids suck in dungeon healing heavy pulls while lvling? I keep saving myself when im with druids π
warm plinth
So far, what you're saying is hypothetical too, tbf
dusky sentinel
note "while lvling"
supple path
no, players suck in heavy pulls while leveling
warm plinth
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying you have to have evidence to back up what you're saying.
orchid token
im with pumps, i think you guys are underrating the off-GCD procs
oblique garnet
Dungeon scaling sucks in low level dungeons
supple path
Low level healers suck at healing higher level tanks unless they changed that though.
dusky sentinel
this is the 110-120 bracket tho
orchid token
you get a fair few SS procs from TC + Revenge but realistically you don't have an enormous amount of free GCDs for devastates
white hamlet
mines not hypothetical, im saying deva is more dps than bv and the rage gen is very comparable and to blanket the talent as a single target pad talent is stupid
and misleading
thats fact
warm plinth
How is it not hypothetical though? You haven't provided anything that confirms what you're saying other than your words. "You get more procs" isn't viable proof that you're right.
supple path
you have to factor in the other fact that speccing devastator replaces* your ignore pain button with a macro that whispers yourself, "you need this rage for casting revenge"
white hamlet
rofl
oblique garnet
Its more st damage for sure that much is clear
warm plinth
Yeah no one is arguing that it's not more single target DPS
orchid token
i dont wanna put words in pumps mouth but it sounds like he's arguing that its disingenuous to suggest that BV is an acceptable default choice for something like jaina AND he's pointing out that it has real value beyond "pad DPS"
white hamlet
just give us deva + bv at the same time ez class balanced
oblique garnet
Eh
warm plinth
The only part of his argument that anyone is questioning is that Deva gives comparable, if not more, rage than DBV
BV
oblique garnet
Devastate is a good filler ability
white hamlet
if you can play the game remotely competently an its a single target boss you should be running deva
dusky sentinel
but but. is it? Cause BV gives 15% more dmg on every aspect. SS etc. while devestator is on auto dmg.
Im just mind crunching here. I actually dont have a clue
sick sentinel
Devastator is definitely the best damage st
warm plinth
It is a fact that Devastator provides more damage on single target than BV.
oblique garnet
The rage gen is not gonna be the same as its from bv is the argument here
sick sentinel
Pre-nerf DC says hello, but that's from a state of bfa prot that we don't wanna talk about
sick sentinel
70% demo uptime
white hamlet
i would be interested in some real math on rage gen deva vs bv tbh
dusky sentinel
I miss IP on GCD..
primal sable
its real easy to sim tbh
sick sentinel
Is there maths on that @fierce juniper ?
primal sable
idk why you all guessing
white hamlet
rage gen isnt my concern but i am curious now
oblique garnet
Sims dont sim rage gen afaik
primal sable
the full report shows you total rage generated and rage per second
warm plinth
Yeah if you look at the Full HTML Report on Raidbots, it has rage generation on there I believe
white hamlet
0 bosses do tank damage in this raid and not playing full dps gear+spec is just not playing to your potential
warm plinth
Well, on Simcraft I guess it technically is
white hamlet
because they are usually maintained by heroic raiders about 5 months behind the curve
lucid bough
lol
primal sable
for me, 411, 1628rating haste, simming at 16079 with BV, rage generated per second is 10.3
simming at 16545 with deva, rage generated is 9.3
i've never played with deva personally
sick sentinel
I think @ionic fern is involved in the apl
white hamlet
thats not a comment on the warrior one tbh, i havent touched that one and from what ive heard its actually decent
warm plinth
Yeah I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure Mwahi ran it by several people including Lala, Sense, and Sal and they gave it a thumbs up. Not sure if you consider them heroic raiders about 5 months behind the curve though :p
primal sable
technically unless youre in method youre behind the curve
white hamlet
yeah sco's really ahead of the curve hes a tanking genius
sick sentinel
LOL
primal sable
make a petition
oblique garnet
@white hamlet looking at from st perspective and similiar kill times the rage gen from devastator was lover
Lower
oblique garnet
200-300 lower
white hamlet
on bosses that dont do damage
oblique garnet
On 3.50 minute fight
supple path
Relevance boils down to "will you get an extra avatar with the extra rage" I guess
orchid token
Tbh tank damage in this raid was a huge letdown
On some jaina pulls my EHRPS is lower than some of the DPS
oblique garnet
Imagine that
sick sentinel
I only tank mplus so idk about the raid
white hamlet
i have a shitload of world firsts
oblique garnet
Outgearing the raid
white hamlet
and yeah tank damage taken in this raid was depressing
be nice to actually have to press your buttons in the right order to kill bosses
instead of just mashing shield block in last stand for dps
orchid token
I expected mekkatorque to be a beefier punchy boi than he was.
I think in the end Conclave turned out to be the highest tank damage and even that was trivial
oblique garnet
Most of the fights are just mechanics check
dense flame
POG got 3x BOM/3xDC/3xEarthlink
oblique garnet
βdont fuck this up and you kill the bossβ
dense flame
meme dps
white hamlet
ye no joke
dense flame
gore and anchor can have fun now
oblique garnet
And then one guy just fucks it up regardless
white hamlet
no dps checks no healing checks no tank checks just 1-2 mechanics 'dont do this wrong, boss dies'
oblique garnet
After you have 415 shield you can take 3 smash combo on grong mythic aswell
white hamlet
jaina was the easiest end boss ive done since EN if you can even consider that a tier
sick sentinel
Sooo, any tips for jaina?
orchid token
I wish the burn strat wasn't possible
warm plinth
Are there enrage timers in BoD? Usually you hear them mentioned if they're present but I haven't heard about any.
exotic spoke
Seriously pumps?
oblique garnet
Theres 6 minute enrage on grong
exotic spoke
EN was easy fucking shit. went from Ilgynoth to Cutting edge in 1 week. After we killed ilgynoth I mean
orchid token
If you had to handle mythic Jaina Heroic style, managing ice blocks and the elemental split, it would have been wild
white hamlet
yeah thats what i mean EN was a joke tier and jaina was the easiest end boss since Xavius
orchid token
Missed opportunity
oblique garnet
I miss the first cata raids
white hamlet
levelling straight into raiding was juice
exotic spoke
I didnt raid much in Cata. Focused on pvp
half shard
what would you guys use, 400 rezan trinket or jes howler 400 with leech?
white hamlet
no 3 week m+ farm downtime
clever shale
so for pushing high keys what combo would you guys use between rezans/alchemy trinket/diamondlaced refracting prism all are 415
exotic spoke
Are you worried about dying bob?
orchid token
Rezan and Alchemy unless your healer is weak, then run diamond and alchemy
exotic spoke
I'd probably saying Rezan and diamond personally
half shard
even with leech Late?
exotic spoke
Leech isnt worth much
oblique garnet
Leeech is worthless
half shard
hmm
oblique garnet
Howler is not good for m+
warm plinth
Leech is irrelevant for the most part. It won't be the deciding factor ever. It's just a perk on something you would have already been wearing.
half shard
hmm
sick sentinel
It night seem a lot in the overall after
exotic spoke
I disagree - primarily because my howler has a socket and leech π
oblique garnet
Vial or expulsom?
warm plinth
Expulsom π
sick sentinel
But on pull by pull basis it can be like, 1gcd of you healer spread thought the pull
clever shale
what about for mythic prog? still use the alcy/diamond?
half shard
vial
clever shale
seems to be the best survival combo
exotic spoke
Personally, I'd still go with rezan's and diamond
oblique garnet
Rezans diamond is a nice combo
half shard
ill try tomorrow, se if i can get a heroic one
exotic spoke
I have the breaths available and probably wont make the trinket
oblique garnet
Diamond is too good to not have
clever shale
ya i just looted it on our first op kill ive heard its amazing
oblique garnet
Alchemy trinket is not bad when youre pushing
The extra healing you get from healing pots is nice
exotic spoke
Yeah, but 415 diamond + 415 howler (socket + leech)
oblique garnet
Howlerπ€’
clever shale
ya for sure thanks for the advice
exotic spoke
I know. But socket
oblique garnet
Again
exotic spoke
lol
oblique garnet
2min cd
exotic spoke
I wish it was 1.5 Its also the only other trinket I have which isnt 410
exotic spoke
Yeah... People in hell want ice water
oblique garnet
I got a lucky titanforge in s1
exotic spoke
π
oblique garnet
Had a 385 with socket
exotic spoke
Fucking shaman got 2 good titan forges.(warforges) recently. a 420 shield and then a 420 trinket from TD
oblique garnet
Yeah i get all the good shit on my alts
hollow thorn
my DH got 420 Claok from Waycrest today
my rogue has full bis azerite in 1 week,
my warrior tho
gigayikes
oblique garnet
I need to get a reliable new team to push keys with
exotic spoke
I mean.. Is he salty enough to play on NA?
warm plinth
He made an NA account already actually; I just don't think he did anything with it.
rigid shuttle
Before I make a really stupid decision; is treacherous covenant at all worth taking as tank?
warm plinth
It's a good trait, but it depends what your alternative is.
If you're playing properly it should have 80+% uptime pretty easily, and the negative effect should really never happen unless you done fucked up
rigid shuttle
I got the tempered jade helm; so Callous and Treacherous
Since I mostly tank in m+ rather than raids, I chose BoM > Deafening
warm plinth
Do you have DC on another piece?
rigid shuttle
I have 1, yes
warm plinth
Okay, just checking :p
tired cove
any of you use the engi helm and try using the spark capacitor ? azrite ?
open bluff
callous stacks pretty quickly in m+
tired cove
keep callous up is not worth it a waste of rage
warm plinth
π€ You get free Revenges out the ass in M+ though
open bluff
^
you should never be spending rage on revenge unless you're not taking any damage whatsoever, and in m+ you rarely need to
warm plinth
That being said, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad choice to take Covenant over CR.
Str is very strong for DPS
hallow jetty
i know there is a way for prot warrriors to drop stacks on champions but ive never done it does anyone know how
warm plinth
I believe it only works on Mythic now; if you're doing heroic, the debuff lasts too long iirc.
open bluff
you can't spell reflect stacks
tacit solstice
you can reflect the application
open bluff
nope
spell reflect only works to reduce the damage now; blizz detected fun and nerfed it
tacit solstice
oh wtf when was that
tacit solstice
i did it last week on reclear
tacit solstice
yeah^^
open bluff
i've never been able to reflect it
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
i know you can reflect reckoning and burst, but i've never been able to reflect sacred blade
tacit solstice
you reflect the 5/6 application or just kite when she casts prayer
warm plinth
The stacks come from AAs, so you basically have to reflect right at the end of the prayer *cast so the next melee gets reflected/kite a tiny bit
open bluff
though to be totally honest i really only pug it on my warrior; guild raids have me on brm so i just dodge the applications anyway
warm plinth
Who needs SR when you don't ever get hit amirite
tacit solstice
True
tacit solstice
Tbh we just kill and cleave with ads. we have like 1:20 kill time lol
on M of course
solid chasm
im stuck using the engineering helmet because im just starting to gear my warrior. what second tier trait should i use for it
willow scarab
@tired cove I just swapped to spark capacitor and itβs really good, you definitely notice it. Not as fun as the other options though
Engineering helmet is. Really good
RNG for raid, bombs for keys, spark for high keys
outer dew
bombs
is never
for keys
LMAO
the amount of shit that i go
"HOW THE FUCK DID I PULL THAT"
from bombs tilts me to this day
willow scarab
Sometimes when it procs on heroi. Throw I guess
fresh valley
gizmo for everything tbh
winter aspen
Bombs are good for dps
dark lark
Im pushing +17/18s, pick 2 trinkets: 400 rezan, 410 vial, 410 Jes, 410 butcher block, 415 alch trinket
Gut tells me 415 alch trinket and 400 rezan, any differing opinions?
dark lark
Reasoning?
willow scarab
on-use feels better than relying on proc
vial every reaping
vial every big pull
vial every boss
warm plinth
Yeah, Jes has to be used perfectly to be good anyway, and the CD doesn't line up very well with anything either @dark lark
tawny crag
Okay so sorry if wrong spot. I took a break end of last year when prot warriors were in a bad spot. And i came back and now there good. Can someone explain how?
undone sun
Bunch of relatively small changes made warr really good in a lot of scenarios
Some that weren't even directed at warr, like nerfing bdk
tawny crag
Mostly for M+, thnking of rerolling
warm plinth
We got a stamina buff, an armor buff, can now block projectiles (this is a big thing), and the seasonal affix is far more friendly to us.
Or rather, the seasonal affix is less friendly to DKs than the last one was.
tawny crag
Well i was a monk main looking for a 2nd tank
exotic spoke
Eh, any of the tanks were viable
undone sun
are
open bluff
even guardian
warm plinth
Yeah, warriors weren't bad back then; DKs were just better.
exotic spoke
Yes thyme. Are.
But specifically as we are talking about 8.0 thatβs why I used past tense
Even guardian.
warm plinth
But they got nerfed, we got buffed, and now life is grand.
I don't even think it's "even guardian". More like "and...I guess VDH are too, kind of" π
undone sun
Yeh
warm plinth
Guardian got put in a much better place with Vortex being available to them and their damage getting bumped by 12%; that was huge for them.
exotic spoke
Ehhh.... I kid. I kid.
Currently - and we rotate between three / always have one ready as a backup. My guild has prot, blood, guardian
warm plinth
From an M+ perspective of course
Though i'm sure the damage is welcome in raids as well
exotic spoke
And weβre all viable. Some fights dictate which two are better than the other one - but thatβs because we all arenβt bland and homogeneous
warm plinth
Yeah, overall, the tanks are probably in closer balance than they have been in a long time.
exotic spoke
Except if you ask reddit when they get MDI data
warm plinth
π Of course. Wouldn't want to argue that non-meta is viable.
exotic spoke
Then holy fuck were overpowered more than any tank has ever been before
exotic spoke
Something something ... blood did... end of legion... no healers in the group?
But thatβs neither here nor there.
warm plinth
One suggestion that was made was to cap Thunder Clap to 5 targets, which I vehemently opposed.
exotic spoke
Jesus Christ that would make us horrible for aoe tanking
warm plinth
I've heard other suggestions as well: nerf UF (probably the most viable choice if they were going to nerf us tbh), nerf Anger Management, etc.
exotic spoke
What do we bring other than mitigation and raw damage?
open bluff
rallying cry
warm plinth
Well, we bring godlike mitigation, to be fiar.
fair*
Even if our damage were brought more in line with other tanks, as long as they don't gut us, I still see us being a top choice for M+
open bluff
10% nerf to bom, 25-30% uf nerf and transition ~10-15% of clap's base dmg to revenge (or a harder UF nerf)
if you're going to focus on avatar (via UF), you should address both parts of what makes our aoe so fucking insane
warm plinth
That's fair. Honestly I don't care what they do as long as it's just numbers. I really do not want to see AM messed with.
open bluff
yeah AM getting nerfed would feel like shit
exotic spoke
AM nerf would be terrible. 70% damage instead of 100^% wouldnβt be the end of the world
From UF I mean. Obviously not supporting it - but I could get by
warm plinth
Moving damage to Revenge would be less than ideal imo, because then you hurt our single target damage too, which is not really that out of line with other tanks.
open bluff
i mean
nerfing UF/TC is going to affect that anyway
the revenge thing is just a personal pet peeve of mine; IP shouldn't be a DPS gain over revenge
warm plinth
Yeah but not as much as moving damage to Revenge would. Nerfing an ability we're still going to use on CD vs moving the damage to an ability we use very infrequently in single target is not going to feel good. And if all the damage was kept on TC, they could even give us a bonus to primary target type thing if needed to bump it back up for ST.
open bluff
true
but a measured UF/TC nerf wouldn't be a significant single target nerf
but it would still be substantial for aoe
undone sun
inb4 remove Ava from AM
open bluff
notlikethis
warm plinth
Yeah, I just really hope they do small adjustments. I don't want to see us get hit like VDH did in Legion, chunked for 40% of our damage across the board
exotic spoke
Please no... please god no
warm plinth
We're blaming Thyme now if that happens right?
open bluff
yes
undone sun
yes
exotic spoke
Screenshoot for proof that he accepts blame.
undone sun
π€£
warm plinth
Yeah, different file types, and I named them after CIA security programs from Jason Bourne
open bluff
but seriously, prot ST dps will be affected but if they're smart it'll be a 5-10% nerf (rough guess, haven't actually mathed out my ideas)
exotic spoke
No ghash... like different types of storage.. ie disk / cd / hard drive / tape
open bluff
probably closer to like 2-4% now that i think about it
exotic spoke
I just wish we get more utility then. Otherwise other classes will bring more - if they nerf dps too much - and theyβll be preferred again as people will cite top meta teams as the only viable comp
exotic spoke
I donβt disagree.
Iβm saying if they nerf the dps too much then I hope they compensate with more utility
winter aspen
Theres no reason to nerf the dps in the first place
We dont have ams or mass grip
Or cr
halcyon fable
So someone was showing me that you can cheese champs as a warrior by spell reflecting the debuff. Is there a timer or something I can get for when it's going to be applied so I can time it correctly? I kept missing it by reflecting too early
exotic spoke
On mythic - at the end of angelic renewal you reflect and your stacks should fall off
Morthrang, What happens and what should happen are two different things
There is going to be significant outcry about warrior dps - especially post MDI imo.
You can already see it coming if you check r/wow. And I think that opinion will spread
exotic spoke
And by the time things should have changed they didnβt nerf them because they were at the end of the legion life cycle
4 dps 1 healing m+ for the MDI is stupid and shouldnβt have been done. But they did.
The timing is as important a consideration when considering how OP a class is
I dunno man. All Iβm saying is - right wrong or indifferent.... it feels like weβre going to get nerfed.
And if they do nerf our dps too much I hope they give us utility
open bluff
blizz taketh away, but they do not giveth
ionic fern
@sick sentinel yes i am involved in the APL. Another update going in soon regarding delaying Avatar in AoE situations etc.
umbral forge
Nani? @ionic fern what are you working on?
@exotic spoke so I should start preparing my Prot Warrior now?
ionic fern
Is that a question as in "What's APL?" or a question of "What specifically are you working on updating"?
π
crisp pecan
they wont touch prot before 8.2
umbral forge
Working on updating im not that dumb
ionic fern
Testing out with delaying it in AoE situations..e.g you know that a pack is coming up in like 5-10s then you can delay it..but it's a bit rough since you can lose a cast of it over the duration which isn't that good either..so playing around with it to find the sweet spot.
undone sun
yeh
warm plinth
distant crystal
ENHANCE
distant crystal
it is a pretty wonky thumb
warm plinth
Yeah, it really is a little misproportioned
distant crystal
must've smashed it with his mace too many times
distant crystal
we were already full on icons that show the face of somebody in pain
nocturne valley
shoulda been the doom icon
one of em
the faces
i thought it was a lung
or something
distant crystal
it's actually just a handful of fentanyl
mint glen
I think it is hand in fire, and you are actually ignoring pain from this fire π
smoky mesa
Just got blessed by my chest with a rezan, what do you reckon for m+, 415 alche, 410 socket rezan and or 405 socket engine (mekka trinket)?
umbral forge
Sweet
finite gull
Im jealous
umbral forge
hi jealous, I'm jett
old zephyr
Got nothing this week...
solid chasm
thoughts on TC for m+?
umbral forge
Yes
warm plinth
Strong, but depends on your alternatives.
warm plinth
TC should be better. I'd take second copy of Bastion over Brace
old zephyr
Bastion over BFI is arguable on tyra/fortif
warm plinth
Keep in mind, if you're a bad player, TC might not be as valuable. If you play properly it should have really high uptime, but if you don't, it's gonna suck.
I doubt even mediocre play will bring you to the danger zone, but anything under 50% HP is bad because it doesn't grant the buff below that.
solid chasm
ok
ionic fern
TC is tricky in m+ indeed. I'd personally take 2nd copy of DC due to the fact that my healer likes to let me drop low so he could DPS a lot more so the buff uptime on my TC is pretty low in m+.
solid chasm
true
fossil heron
415 gore crust vs 400 anchor in m+?
ionic fern
What's the other trinket @fossil heron ?
fossil heron
425 vial
kinda want to keep that one for the massive burst during avatar i get from the 2.4k strength
ionic fern
I'd probably take Gore over Anchor. You can try and mess around with sims e.g patchwerck 10 enemies 1 minute for AoE etc or try Dungeon slice and see what comes up ahead.
warm plinth
Yeah, good call Mwahi. Definitely depends on how your group plays together as well.
valid knot
400 ring with haste/mastery or 405 ring with vers/crit?
valid knot
ok
tardy berry
Nah I'd say 400 for survivability too
Hard to argue with haste tbh :)
That having been said it's hqrd to argue with ilvl too :P
I'd prolly sim dps and take the best dps tbh
bold linden
hey guys, quick question: bloodsport or blood rite for m+ ? i alrdy have deaf clas x1 bastion x1 ifx1 bracxe x1
crisp pecan
rite IMO
old zephyr
More stat is best stat
Go with 405
Sport is Good
Very good
Especially Since it procs off BoM
bold linden
mhm you're right it proccs off bom.... guess i will go with sports first and do a test on rite later this week π thanks a lot
old zephyr
If you healer is Good at dpsing usually going for more tankyness means more group dps
Because healer can spend lore time doing Damage and you can pull bigger6as well
bold linden
sounds true... i was thinking im trying to go for more dps and let my healer do more healing instead....but my heal can rly do some dmg if she 's fine with healing me/group ^^
sick sentinel
That's not how it works
gray gyro
hmmm 410 crit mast ring or 400 vers mast π
old zephyr
410
bold linden
leech is always nice.... thats why it seemed difficult for me to go for rite (more dps) or sports ( more leech/ def)
sick sentinel
Because there is an ICD on the rage you get from getting hit
@bold linden 1% leech will not save you
Leech is a meme
It's a nice thing to have, but don't stress about it
@valid knot use the 405 for mplus
bold linden
mhm im going to test rite and bloodsports and have al ook at my logs. thanks for the help!
sick sentinel
@smoky mesa alchemy and rezans
sick sentinel
But have no utility
warm plinth
Slightly obvious troll π€
sick sentinel
I would expect some tuning in 8.2
old zephyr
8.2 New season affix Will probably be enough of Γ nerf on It's own
sick sentinel
Our overall is boosted because of reaping
trail beacon
fair call
when is mdi?
i exoect nerfs after the mdi
we will be on display to the world and will be noticed
sick sentinel
It will be a while since mdi
trail beacon
nerfs always come after mdis
sick sentinel
But yeah, just enjoy the damage dude
You can level up other tanks in case they get buffed and we get nerfed if you want
Bad weeks for pushing are coming so you can do it then
ionic fern
I'm still keeping my BDK/VDH as backups. π
warm plinth
I'm looking forward to them overbuffing VDH. Let's go Blizz
winter aspen
Inb4 guardian buff
sick sentinel
Lol
warm plinth
Honestly I feel like guardian just suffers from other tanks being better
They're way better than they were
ionic fern
Guardian suffers from not being able to see your transmog.
warm plinth
XD
sick sentinel
Guardian scales with gear because of how their mastery works, right?
ionic fern
Guardian is the one tank i don't play so i got no idea π¦
sick sentinel
Because they are supposed to have the highest heath than everyone, but they are failing even that rn
inner moth
hey guys. been reading guides and getting upto date on my warr, but im not sure how to rate cloaks and rings yet for example which of these two items is better? still have a few 355 items equipped but of course i get a chest reward that maybe isnt even an upgrade (only 400 item i had lol)
old zephyr
But de both prots scale with gear like crazy as well
inner moth
thanks in advance
sick sentinel
@inner moth use the 410
warm plinth
Use the 410
sick sentinel
And don't socket str
inner moth
i panicked and socketed the item mid raid thought strenght is okay, thanks for the info
sick sentinel
Go have a look at the icyveins guide
inner moth
so the 410 is better because of the extra stam? considering i lose haste in the process
undone sun
more overall stats
ionic fern
Most secondaries are fairly close in regards to value that's why it's ilvl=>all on almost everything except rings.
tardy berry
for prot warrior it's super hard to argue with ilvl
yeahhaste is a little better than the others for survivability but not enough for 10 ilvls
inner moth
that makes it easy then
winter aspen
What about sockets
inner moth
for dps the socket means alot im guessing for warr not so much
ionic fern
For DPS you can sim yourself in various situations & gear.
And see what pulls up ahead for oyu.
tidal scarab
@ionic fern What do you think? 415 haste/vers heavy haste or 420 vers/mast ring?
sick sentinel
I'd go 420
tidal scarab
Yeah thinking the same, just wanted some juicy haste
old zephyr
Pop lust for juicy haste =)
sick sentinel
@winter aspen gear is 5
Rings is 10
Weap=shield is 0
ionic fern
I'm gonna be the downer here and say i'd probably go for the 415. :')
Mostly cause i really-really enjoy having high haste. π
sick sentinel
What you really enjoy is not whats best
ionic fern
π€·
I don't see a 420 vers/mast ring giving me any overwhelming benefits over a 415 haste/vers one.
ionic fern
I mean you can use them both and they will work out fine.
sick sentinel
You will not notice an ilvl difference between 5 ilvls anyway
potent anvil
If it doesn't have crit then its π€’ for me. Gotta pump prot dps
ionic fern
I'm still running a 400 haste/crit ring. π
tidal scarab
I just wanted to feel like I finally had a small upgrade in a weekly chest for warrior. Been too long, you know?
sick sentinel
It is an upgrade
ionic fern
Sim y0self. π
tidal scarab
Can I sim for feelsgood? π€
tardy berry
sim for dps
ionic fern
Yes, it's called the satisfactory scale.
inner moth
i wish i got a higher ilvl than 410 chest reward and ppl here not happy with a 420 ring π
ionic fern
You got your healer unbanned for this week @tidal scarab ?
tardy berry
prot warrior = the best DPS in World of Warcraft.
It has the amazing utility that it can fill the tank spot too! ^^
tidal scarab
@ionic fern Uhm on Friday but he is leaving to see his daughter for the weekend so only get to really clap Monday/Tuesday
brisk rain
Hey, which trait is better callous or tradewinds, i have tradewinds on fury and it procs quite often
brisk rain
missclicked and insinctively pressed accept xD
old zephyr
Maybe for Motherlode I would, Maybe
smoky mesa
@sick sentinel I figured, thanks
sick sentinel
A bunch of trade winds value comes from giving mastery to somebody else and there are so many specs that don't want mastery
So you get less bunk for your bank anyway
brisk rain
does ablative shielding stack?
old zephyr
Yes but the trait itself is not Great
sick sentinel
Yeah but blood siphon is better
Actually
If you are good at the game
Abrative plating is garbage
brisk rain
well im not great, started tanking keys around +17 2 days ago xd
couldnt do boralus 18 ;__;
old zephyr
If I could have Γ 415 mythrax eye then MAYBE ablative could be good
crisp pecan
IF is that better than BS?
tidal scarab
I always see siege as either a shit show or very good
crisp pecan
i would go for BS too
old zephyr
Yeah if is one of the best
inner moth
thanks for the help guys cheers
sick sentinel
IF is miles better
crisp pecan
shit, what i am doing on this discord everyday when i miss basics
fierce juniper
No it's not. IF and BS are more or less equal in value
crisp pecan
this is what i am thinking, i even stack BS
brisk rain
you do not tank if you are dead
inner moth
u tank longer if mobs die faster tho
old zephyr
Yet BS helps you against magic
inner moth
i mean die less π
sick sentinel
for raids yeah I agree
but for mplus
most of the time your IP doesn't even get depleted
and you overcap it
just so you don't ragecap
tardy berry
isn't that what non-procced revenge is for?
sick sentinel
my revenge is always procced
ionic fern
Hmpf. I'm checking logs for my runs and my IP overheals for ~3-5% per dungeon.
But tbh i'd also take IF for m+ dungeons.
sick sentinel
also IF damage during dungeons is not negligible
sick sentinel
I haven't logged anything recently
I need to
I am running 2xCR, 2xBoM, 1DC and 1 gismo
sick sentinel
I scrap all my helmets and I use eng for both fury and prot