The others are just so small
#protection
primal crypt
sand egret
horde favoritism
sand egret
gotta rock it
primal crypt
Whenever my engineering helmet procs
It feels amazing
Hm...
I cant change for 5 days lmao
Rip
Blade you smrt
sand egret
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sick sentinel
So here's the loa tier list after trying then out:
Akunda
Kimbul
Gonk
Akunda
Paku
sick sentinel
It is
jovial haven
Everything
pulsar lodge
Akunda for warr prot ? 😮
narrow abyss
Yolo!
primal crypt
My warr is going to stay belf for actual push content
sick sentinel
@primal crypt the DHs mistakes were enough to cost 2 mins
and we depleted by 1 min and 30 sec
surreal stump
i went frog, its 30% to 30% uptime and i ignore it lol
sick sentinel
add my mistakes to that
surreal stump
20% to 30%*
narrow abyss
That sucks
primal crypt
@narrow abyss it's nice to not rely on other dispels when it really matters
Plus torrent is aoe
primal crypt
Oh my
narrow abyss
Yup
narrow abyss
Yup
warm plinth
Rogues allow themselves to be pandaren?
narrow abyss
Yup
dim blaze
Can a tank with engineering get a BR cast off or does it get interrupted by being hit?
fickle urchin
i mean if you stun, and intervene to the guy standing next to the dead guy...
and you have a frost mage snaring
you get the idea
i actually dont know if it gets pushback or gets interrupted tho
warm plinth
I imagine it doesn't, because otherwise it'd be hard for a lot of people to wouldn't it?
primal crypt
@narrow abyss 어머나 세상에
west kayak
What if your VE? Will the racial prevent it?
narrow abyss
Hahaha yup
modern brook
Battle rez is delayed not interrupteed
surreal stump
.
primal crypt
Engineering doesn't get interrupted or push back
narrow abyss
Sounded like every korean mother ever yamo hahaha
sick sentinel
it gets pushback
modern brook
IM LIKE 80% IT GETS DELAYED
fickle urchin
i imagine you lose all dodge block and parry while casting right @sick sentinel ?
primal crypt
Nah you still mitigate
You sure it has pushback?
I felt like nothing happened while I casted it
But I may have just not paid close enough attention
warm plinth
Maybe you had IP up? AFAIK if you have absorbs up, you don't get pushback
west kayak
My toon is VE Eng but I cannot test it til tonight.
warm plinth
Clearly we all play casters frequently
fickle urchin
i mean, i have a mage as main alt
primal crypt
Hm
fickle urchin
and back in woltk arms warriors were casters
primal crypt
I prob had my resounding + engineering absorb up
warm plinth
Are you talking about shattering throw? XD
sick sentinel
if you have absorb there is no pushback
fickle urchin
nah slam had cast
warm plinth
Oh you're right, I forgot
exotic spoke
Slam reset swing timer too
fickle urchin
yes
i was propper hardcore in wotlk. Failed a trial in a top 100 guild and everything
they were a bit desperate for an arms warrior
something to do with the debuff
i think monks got it some time since then
but yeah, cast bars and interrupted white attacks and everything
naive panther
I didn’t get push back but you have to be on top the person and the cast is long
fickle urchin
did you notice if you were able to block doge or parry while casting?
primal crypt
You can mitigate yes
west kayak
Pop CD's and rez'em.
naive panther
I popped block before anyways in case
west kayak
Is the cast time affected by haste?
naive panther
The worst is trying to Rez on ad final bodd
fickle urchin
spiders covering the corpse yes
sick sentinel
Just have the tank run spiders, he's supposed to be the one who takes the damage so it's his job
outer dew
If a spider gets hit, you're inting the key
sick sentinel
If spider doesn't get kill ur team*
exotic spoke
You know what hurts my soul and cuts me deep
exotic spoke
Grats man!
But yeah, a new shaman (mythic raider came back and swapped from mage to shaman after a long break) gets carried through the first 3 bosses of mythic to help get him geared.
He gets a 420 socketed shield that he doesn’t even have a 1 handed for yet and I still can’t get a replacement for my 400 shield
wise mirage
^^
haha
yea we have ppl
carry them through give them gear
then they leave the guild
top
neon tangle
@warm plinth I realize this was forever ago
exotic spoke
He’s been in guild forever, since BC. He had to take a break as he started his Masters and just came back once he realized he could manage his masters, work, and 6 hours of raiding
neon tangle
but it's probably worth delaying a trinket to line it up with avatar:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hwNZytEPRe4SJ2XHTUdJJu <- Delaying up to 20s to line up with avatar
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gXTH8juCnwz9hkmCy9pye8 <- Casting trinket on CD
warm plinth
Is that with RAGE?
neon tangle
yes, same thing with vial
lusty grotto
got butcher block 405 yesterday time to destroy the hell out of shitpods 😄
neon tangle
I also need to mess around with grong's trinket
I fixed the BDK APL for it and it was WAY undersimming
like, went from bottom 3 -> BiS
they also have more downtime though, and the static damage is a higher % of their total
timber nest
whats the consensus... gutripper vs heed my call?
timber nest
he said the grong trinket was undersimming
neon tangle
@ionic fern Grong's Primal Rage
ionic fern
Regarding coding or APL?
neon tangle
APL
timber nest
he said APL
neon tangle
The APL for BDK and Prot both cast it on CD, which means it will be used over good abilities rather than during downtime
ionic fern
Jep, all trinkets for prot are on CD right now - i'm testing and working with it.
We just pushed the APL so people could actually start simming themselves with a correct one.
Most trinkets are fine with on CD usage , especially the 1.5m ones since they line up with every other Avatar but Grong's a special case.
undone sun
👏 fine 👏 tuning 👏
neon tangle
@ionic fern Want me to send a pull request?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nWVP8YrUftBhiD6P79hqtj <- casting it with priroity right above devastate
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sR1CJxrA4v4oBN7VsPYuHy <- Casting it as #1 priority
actually puts it above R.A.G.E
ionic fern
Jep, still needs some testing and tuning.
dim blaze
I decided to go engineering - couple questions on the helm you can make. Is it worth it if I already have a 415 and my traits are pretty solid? Also I only have the 385 recipe where are the others?
lapis ruin
leg 410 haste+mastery+socket or leg 400 haste+versa+leech(110) for M+?
exotic spoke
You get the other recipes as you craft them. Make the 385 and you’ll get the recipe to make 400. Make that and you’ll get the recipe to make 415
Renaros in general our stat priority is - higher Ilvl wins
More stats in general is better than fewer stats
oblique garnet
leech is not worth 5ivls on anything but maybe rings
lapis ruin
it's like 2.8% leech, but ty
exotic spoke
Again. That’s really minor and so so
lusty grotto
leech is not worth ilvls in anything
steel mauve
Tertiaries arent worth ilvls on any thing, nice to have but dont lose secondaries or main stats for it
sick sentinel
I just had a thought, whenever we activate Avatar we get dummy thicc, and our ass cheeks are the one to start clapping
undone sun
...
sick sentinel
Which makes sense from how often we do it
buoyant bobcat
Hi, two prot questions if anyone knows: does Ignore Pain absorb also work on non-physical damage? And for basic mitigation rotation, do you Shield Block straight into another Shield Block, or do you Shield Block > Ignore Pain > Shield Block?
undone sun
ip works on everything
sick sentinel
And u should be shield blocking back to back
undone sun
IP and SB aren't mutually exclusive, IP is a damage and health buffer while SB is active mitigation. in ideal situations you should be having both up for hard hitting damage, IP is used more often for magic heavy hits where sb is use less often and vice versa for physical
neon tangle
@ionic fern welp, experiments did not show that waiting on grongs trinket was worth it
I got the best results prioritizing it over avatar
buoyant bobcat
Thanks for the answers!
chilly brook
@buoyant bobcat you might want to check out #268491842637660160
novel sail
https://imgur.com/LuSUoMS am i doing this good? :D
novel sail
me?
crisp pecan
me
novel sail
ah :D well good luck on your jurny to 2k!
timber nest
are sims off for BoM? says that engi helm is better than same ilevel jadefire helm
neon tangle
@timber nest The bombs are really absurd damage
@ionic fern https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/pull/4775 <- fixed it up a little
@timber nest BoM has value beyond the damage though, a big chunk of mastery means you're far less likely to need to kite during avatar, and kiting means you're doing little/no damage
timber nest
@neon tangle talking about raids though
chilly brook
BoM still has defensive value in raid....
neon tangle
Raids BoM sims higher than bombs anyways
timber nest
i really could care less about defensive stats when im not dieing on farm
chilly brook
Not even properly working 4head
neon tangle
@timber nest Honestly I'd just try simming it, DC is a decent amount of damage, and that helm has treacherous covenant
which is also rather good if you just care about damage
ionic fern
Sims take Treacherous with 100% uptime as default so you gotta play with that settinf yourself.
neon tangle
also gotta consider shitty procs on the barrage of many bombs
warm plinth
@neon tangle Did you test with RAGE? Sorry I had to step away as soon as I asked that earlier
neon tangle
@warm plinth Yeah, tested with RAGE and Vial
Patchwerk/ST it's pretty much even
Hectic Add Cleave or more AoE sims and it's way better to save it
warm plinth
Gotcha, thanks for doing that. I'm not smart enough with simc to make it test that way haha
Or even in-game because I'm sure I'd do something inconsistent
neon tangle
It's kinda annoying to compare APLs
doubly so if you want to have the "right" value for holding on to trinkets and stuff
I semi-randomly choose 20 seconds since that means that even with bad play you can macro 90s trinket to avatars that take ~1 minute for the CD
the right thing would probably be to sim across a range of values and see where the maximum is
warm plinth
Yeah Vial isn't a surprise to me at all that it would be better to save it. I was unsure with RAGE only because with how it ramps up, I wasn't sure how much you actually gained inside Avatar vs outside
neon tangle
RAGE is a total runtime of 18s, avatar is 20, so you get the whole trinket inside avatar
people read too much in to the ramping thing honestly
warm plinth
I'm sure it was just me overthinking it; I have a tendency to do that.
neon tangle
❤
warm plinth
Thanks for your efforts sir!
neon tangle
no prob bob, always happy to make things a little better
naive panther
Is raidbots updated or do I need to do something to sim like you did?
neon tangle
@naive panther You can pass in a custom APL, no clue how long it takes to go from simc -> raidbots
warm plinth
@ionic fern created an APL I believe; it should be in the nightly build, if not the weekly (can't remember how long it has been).
neon tangle
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/35e701ef35542685d8fce0aabe9464037cb029a8/profiles/Tier23/T23_Warrior_Protection.simc <- that's from my pull request
ionic fern
It's in daily.
naive panther
Yeah never done something like that have to look into it after raid. Because rezans shows higher than vial for me and really shouldn’t be especially with vial lines up properly and with aoe. Just want proper info
ionic fern
So you don't need to do anything unless you wanna custom apl
timber nest
@neon tangle to be fair, if i truely only cared about damage, id run 2x reckless flurry traits
warm plinth
Is Vial used with Avatar in your APL Mwahi? Or on CD?
naive panther
Yeah I’m going to run rezans with devastator and triple rf to test
warm plinth
Or is that something separate from a warrior APL
ionic fern
1.5m trinkets line up with every other Avatat
warm plinth
Ah that's true, so using it on CD is the same thing
ionic fern
Yes.
neon tangle
Sortof, if you use it RIGHT on CD it can lose sync with avatar
naive panther
But is it always popping it on the avatar cast? Cause I’m play my avatar can be up before vial
In
neon tangle
which is why my pull request will delay it up to 20s for avatar
naive panther
Can you have avatar delay 10s for vial?
ionic fern
Only trinkets like rage/gronf might need specific lines for them to be more optimized but i:ve been working on testinf that traits are working correctly.
naive panther
It might be dps loss
neon tangle
@ionic fern RAGE is fine with a delay for avatar, grongs is dumb af tho
naive panther
But would be curious
neon tangle
don't want to delay for avatar because it'll waste avatar, don't really want to use DURING avatar, so ideally you use it first, and it un-syncs
ionic fern
I will get to trinkets this weekend so i can give info on the next week.
jovial steppe
is there a haste cap for prot?
neon tangle
@naive panther FWIW
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rsmXiBb3xttoF4LKdCLLDw <- New APL
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jfuyA7MSb9bWc5gaD7oTHz <- Old APL
Still not as good as rezans, but it's way closer
warm plinth
100% is the haste cap, arguably, because it is the lowest you can get the GCD, but you're not going to ever hit it @jovial steppe
neon tangle
at least given that particular person's gear
jovial steppe
im playing with stats now i have lot of items but no idea what stats should i focus on.
warm plinth
ilevel over everything else; if it's the same ilevel, use what has more haste.
sick sentinel
Has anyone tested the dungeon slice over hectic add
neon tangle
I'll kick one off to see
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nYMJLu5WX3rcKrRouEQHpq <- rezan's still won
@sick sentinel Almost certainly because haste gets wacky valuable in dungeon slice
Literally 2x the value of strength
sick sentinel
Yeah I had feeling that would be a larger influence but I wasn't sure
Curious if it's because of combat dropping so often or fights being shorter
Because I feel in a dungeon I get way more procs then in a raid
neon tangle
I'm going to see how it sims w/ R.A.G.E.
since that will be a little more fair (str + haste, but haste is aligned w/ avatar)
sick sentinel
I want it to be either 5k dps or 50k
naive panther
Thanks sadbox
neon tangle
@sick sentinel hokay, now it's weird
sick sentinel
Oh boy
neon tangle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mkN77WEU15hG5SaXgTPco3 <- dungeon slice is WORSE if you save your trinkets
nova gale
Any warrior around here who dealt with avalanche on Jaina mythic?
neon tangle
ST = Neutral, Hectic = Better (by an OK margin), Dungeon Slice = Worse (by a smaller, but non-zero margin)
prolly need more work on the APL 😛
neon tangle
is true, and in "relavant" content it's lot harder to waste an on-use trinket since it'll during your avatar
far less likely to be kiting
or to be at the end / in-between packs
sick sentinel
"Kite Grong"
"What?"
"Kite him"
neon tangle
lightfoots FTW
sick sentinel
Lightfoot into pool+ground pound
Which did happen to me several times when we're prog on Grong
Some range too close to Grong which led to wasted pulls
I'm starting to think about that on use sim, if it still shows that's it's still worse to save on use over saving after it comes out of beta even with the apl played with, I'm curious what the difference would be later down the line
exotic spoke
What do people think will be the punishment, if any, for those people spam clicking the alchemy cauldrons since the respawn in like 20 seconds
sick sentinel
Someone will come and break their pc
exotic spoke
lol
stoic pilot
I haven’t even seen one yet
exotic spoke
Thinking of dropping my gathering for it and power leveling it real fast
Couple guildees are doing it. Ones found 40 cauldrons in a couple hours on top of 120+ flasks and a fuck ton of pots
stoic pilot
Sheesh, I’d imagine there’d be some action for that
exotic spoke
He’s just standing there and clicking - not changing shards or anything
If I grt banned it was nice knowing you all
red wedge
Diamond from opulence.
sick sentinel
Is there any where I can check to find what dungeons were changed with Teeming?
Since teeming was nerfed again
red wedge
Method Dungeon Tools.
sick sentinel
Dont think it knows what adds were removed yet since the nerf just happened
I would need a SS of an old teeming pre .1.5 to see
viral garden
If anyone minds, I got a trinket question. I've been using vial + rezan's combo for a bit, just had a jes's howler drop, just trying to get opinions on what combo of trinkets you all would use from this selection
jagged bay
i'd use vial + rezans for m+ and jes on some raid bosses
viral garden
aye? My dps buddy was wanting me to take it for the group damage, don't know how much it actually outputs
austere oar
I have a 415 jes but still uses my 400 socket trinket from jaina hc in raids
Sims higher
fierce juniper
Jes' is the best trinket (besides diamond) that you can get assuming you use it at a good time.
undone sun
how many targets does jes sim with
fierce juniper
*for survivability
viral garden
I have a 385 opulence but I thought the other trinket values would end up coming out on top since they have more DPS built in
undone sun
i'd imagine jes could be underperforming in sims if it's not realistic stacking
fierce juniper
Dralas are you going for DPS or survivability
random elbow
Any opinion on Gigavolt vs Rezan? The gigavolt is 400 ilevel + socket vs 410 rezan. For m+ tanking.
sick sentinel
personally I would go jes+rezan in raids and rezan+vial for mplus
viral garden
Dps prefered, but swap depending on what the group needs
Thanks for the input and stuff. Super helpful
supple path
Hrm, have two choices for 415 bps now. #1: Breastplate of the Vengeful (Brace, Blightborne (callous also available but f that), carapace, vampiric). #2: Divine Purification: IF (or a DC), BoM, Earthlink, Rallying cry. Second is the obvious answer for M+, but how do you think it compares on raids? Kinda hard for me to weigh how useful rallying cry is vs the largely worthless in raids vampiric.
tl;dr - brace for impact/blightborne/cryst carapace/vampiric vs IF/BoM/earthlink/rallying cry.
round oasis
Auto Cauterizer or Personal Absorbotron?
sick sentinel
absorb
neon tangle
@round oasis If you have the extra breaths it's useful to carry around a second one with the cauterizer for the few situations where it's useful
e.g. Conclave, Necrotic weeks
round oasis
interesting
neon tangle
Oh yes it does
undone sun
i mean im sure it can proc to drop multiple
neon tangle
I thought I was going to be really fancy and do the invis pot for FH last week w/ the dog
undone sun
it's also better than nothing, absorb during necro week is pretty much useless
neon tangle
absorb-o-tron went in guns-blazing though
sick sentinel
Absorb-o-tron dont give a fuck
cedar cave
Any tip on necrotic? After how much stacks should i try to reset?
sick sentinel
I go for 30
Anywhere bewteen 20-40 stacks
For Mythic OP should we not be using Green gems?
cinder pasture
What's necrotic ? I run with a boomkin and mistweaver 😂
oblique garnet
40-50
depending if it hurts
if it hurts
i run
if im fine
i call for treants
neon tangle
@cinder pasture My mistweaver couldn't save me from some shit
like grub hallway on WM, or the big witches who love to walk through RoP
supple path
This one time, at band camp, a ret paladin used BoP to remove my necrotic stacks. I'm joking of course, like all ret paladins it was unhotkeyed.
eager hedge
sand egret
@supple path false, my Brazilian Jesus had that shit bound on a hairtrigger.
maybe one day i'll meet him again...
supple path
Are you sure he wasn't just a dream?
sand egret
I thought it was too
but alas
it was real
never seen a display of unprompted , perfect BoPs iin my life
damage was off the charts
was using repent to interrupt shit
supple path
They're so scared of getting yelled at for BoPing at the wrong time that they're just too gunshy.
oblique garnet
Probably a pvp player
sand egret
I was floored
I honestly almost got him killed because I totally wasn't expecting the bop i didnt hit my macro fast enough
supple path
That "dong" BoP noise is hardwired in my brain for shift-2 2 to happen
I should probably put it somewhere less awful.
sand egret
i had just come from my DiD switch so needing a BoP was already strange
supple path
Thanks, paladins who BoP'd me on CD while I was tanking on raids for 4 years!
undone sun
yikes
supple path
Yeah I had legit 3 trolladins in my guild.
sand egret
Rets are like Inverse DH's in my world
very few rets i meet are sick and those that are are insane
oblique garnet
Ive encountered more and more shadowpriests in m+ and they grip me away so they can dps more
sand egret
very few dhs i meet are terrible....but those that are are reallll bad
oblique garnet
How can you even be bad at dh
supple path
imma charging my laser right into these adds
warm plinth
They sim themselves, find out Momentum sims higher, so they run it. Then don't play it well at all
sand egret
see: eye beaming the first boss in Seth when she's got LS up
oblique garnet
Oh like you dont thunderclap it atleast once 8)
sand egret
well my tclap doesnt hit a bajillion times a second 😃
supple path
I thunderclap that boss exactly as much as my hp pool supports damnit.
oblique garnet
Imagine legions legendary belt on current warrior tho
supple path
There's no imagining, I reequip it in timewalking Late
Which I do just to enjoy belt + sephuz
sand egret
that's my move
oblique garnet
Belt and bracers🤔
supple path
bracers increase my dps by zerrrro
sand egret
i do have the shoulders for all the HLs
supple path
I tend to do timewalking with my M+ healer so dying's an other people problem.
sand egret
yeah, luckily prot scales reallll well in TW
supple path
I see other people in there using legendaries approximately never.
warm plinth
I had no idea legendaries would work in TW; that's pretty cool.
sand egret
yep! your "level" is technically below 115
undone sun
yeah, you can even use the mop cloak and wod rings
sand egret
so those restrictions are lifted
oblique garnet
Apparently theres a bug with the xp pot that allows stacking them
little herald
I saw a guy in timewalking that was geared to the teeth for it
oblique garnet
So now you can level from 81-120 in 2 hours
undone sun
using exploits
sand egret
hard pass
oblique garnet
Imagine playing in method and streaming your fh level boost that took 30mins
oblique garnet
Yup
undone sun
essentially a trash pull https://gfycat.com/academicalertelectriceel
oblique garnet
Yup
knotty wagon
wtf are those buffs
oblique garnet
40+ pot + full heirlooms and rested and you do one trash pull in fh for a level
Idk how they could fuck up so badly
undone sun
no testing at all
oblique garnet
Yeah
oblique garnet
Yup
ocean acorn
that still work?
oblique garnet
Worked 20 mins ago doubt they patched ir
100% gonna be either bans or rollbacks tho
knotty wagon
I mean they let the consumable stack
its not even an exploit
its not flagged as unique buff
so its working exactly as intended
oblique garnet
Not exactly
oblique garnet
I dont want to spread exploit information
knotty wagon
I'm assuming you stand at the vendor, buy one, use one, buy one use one
until you have X
oblique garnet
@daring marlin no they did not
oblique garnet
Wdym
rough egret
there is a patch available
scenic dune
What's it say
timber nest
HES DEAD!!!!
inland mesa
noice
420 shield from our first blockade kill 😄
3 weeks later than it should have been, fu mekkatorque
amber spire
im not even 1/9 in mythic FeelsBadMan
exotic spoke
Quick question about Mythic Conclave - Still possible for us to cheese and have Paku up til end as a prot war?
wicked ruin
guys, does iron fortress stack?
undone sun
Yes, Amount of block and physical damage
wicked ruin
cool thx
for mythic plus, is it better survivability wise to have 3 iron fortress or 2 iron fortress + 1 bastion of might?
slow kiln
So 3 BoM is best for M+ for dps and surv? or just dps?
ember arrow
@undone sun 👋
charred geyser
My guild is looking to server/faction transfer to Illidan to play horde(having not enough success in guild recruiting for Mythic BoD on Sargeras) I was wondering in transferring over which race would be ideal for playing prot warrior?
I know Bloodmallet says Undead for dps, but that seems almost negligible
astral crystal
finally got cuckade, what a boss
the real boss were the raiders we picked up along the way :^)))))))
narrow abyss
God 3rd boss tos is kinda annoying with necrotic
narrow abyss
Its a lot of damage
knotty wagon
How many stacks are you ending up with?
narrow abyss
25 before I just let myself die and take brez
knotty wagon
Weird, my stacks jsut fall off naturally
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I mean of necrotic
not the beam
I dont soak even a single stack of beam, my team does that, i just sit him in corner and not move him
narrow abyss
Hrm you’re necrotic stacks are falling off?
knotty wagon
Yep
knotty wagon
I didnt even realize it was an issue
do you pull him into corner?
and what level of key?
narrow abyss
17
astral crystal
that boss is always a pain on tyrannical
narrow abyss
Yea
steep lily
hmm, would you guys use R.A.G.E. trinket at 415 over rezans with socket at 400?
daring marlin
100%
inland mesa
I've had that boss not reset stacks no matter what, and sometimes reset like 6 times during the kill
lucid bough
lol that xp pot bug
daring marlin
xp pot bug?
daring marlin
wat
what level?
cuz I'm getting 80% of my bar per between 110-120
with heirlooms
and the pot
lucid bough
really loo0l
inland mesa
patched on NA already, was still live on EU
vale steeple
The duration stacks as well as exp?
inland mesa
people were doing 110-120 in about 30-45 mins
lucid bough
In FH mb ya
undone sun
like he cares
inland mesa
"we're supposed to run avalanche together?"
prep like a champion
didn't get a 415 shield since raid release, 415 off first boss bonus roll, 420 off blockade kill this week. When it rains, it pours.
fringe marten
Am I just..doing shitty, or was our dps stealth nerfed a bit???
Chewtoy; I got lucky sorta...my very FIRST cache of this xpac was a 410 shield; I've literally never seen a shield SINCE from all M+, from ALL tiers of raiding so far. I have my same luck from legion ..BUT I got a shield at the start at least.
Not 'not seen an upgraded shield' NOT SEEN A SHIELD. I've gotten like 1 blue one from a ? Warfront cache or something. in hundreds of M+, a tons of clears of normal, heroic, and now weeks of mythic prog in raid.
spring surge
What makes Prot so strong? I’ve missed some stuff and trying to understand why they’ve become the best tank. I’m just trying to understand more in depth stuff.
lusty grotto
reaping
spring surge
?
lusty grotto
the seasonal affix
spring surge
Could you explain for me?
lusty grotto
you dont know what reaping is?
lusty grotto
bootyclapping reaping is dumb as fuck strong dps
nothing, we could do uldir fine
blockable bosses makes prot strong always
spring surge
Hmm
lusty grotto
people are sheep, they believe anything that WF guilds and MDI streamers put up
knotty wagon
People Metaslave
lusty grotto
while reddit was making threads about prot, people here were clearing Uldir just fine
knotty wagon
for example, Guardian druid is more than fine
lusty grotto
our dps just became great due to reaping (and BoM), but it was already insane in Uldir (see Zul parses)
so what makes prot strong, is the same as always... so long as a boss has blockable abilities, we will shine
spring surge
That makes sense. I know people do make things sound worse than they are. However, I kinda have to agree with the consensus on vengeance dh. They are lacking pretty bad in terms of being an actual tank.
lusty grotto
im saying this per my experiences in alt-healing.. but yes VDH get hit absurdidly hard. They do have the utility, but it sounds like they need help in defensiveness
at least in M+
ive seen some good VDHs in BoD, and they seem to be doing fine
they could just be great players, who knows, but that's how i see it
spring surge
Only two charges of demon spikes and not enough soul generation to compensate. It feels awkward right now. Granted mines low ilvl but still. And only have one defensive cooldown is rough too.
But alas. Blizzard may eventually fix it. Who knows. Glad warrior feels fine. Although I do miss how it was in WoD. It felt smooth back then.
neon tangle
@spring surge its a big pile of things that brought prot back
1 prot was fine in Uldir if played well, already one of the best physical mitigation tanks, but it was held back by the availability of shields and deafening crash
Rather than addressing the top end blizzard just gave prot a baseline buff, which meant the already good top end is now wacky
Add to that the extra row of azerite rings (which prot utilizes well)
And a +10 affix that’s basically built for prot
It’s just a lot of little stuff that builds on itself
spring surge
Thanks. I might give it a go. Warrior is my oldest toon after all
neon tangle
Nows the time I suppose
I can’t imagine blizz will let it go forever before they nerf the damage
spring surge
Im tired of this tanks can’t do strong damage. It’s annoying. Nerf our threat. Make it harder to survive without a healer. Nerf the damage. I don’t get the point.
knotty wagon
I mean, what tanks cant do damage
lusty grotto
they already nerfed threat
knotty wagon
My BDK pulls like 16k average for the dungeon, most trash im 20k+
lusty grotto
they already nerfed being harder to survive
spring surge
That’s what I mean. They have already done all those things. So the only thing left is for them to target the damage.
neon tangle
@spring surge it’s not so much “tanks shouldn’t do a lot of damage” but “one particular tank does about 50% more than the others”
I’m a fan of the brawler-style tank though
spring surge
What do you mean
neon tangle
Just damage dealing tanks
spring surge
Oh yeah. It feels good to be do that. It also feels nice when you can stay alive after a healer dies. Not indefinitely but at least be able to hold your own.
I got spoiled back is mists playing a haste blood dk
Vengeance was awesome lol bring that shit back.
neon tangle
Yep
lusty grotto
👊
neon tangle
Imagine what warrior would bring without damage
knotty wagon
Wouldnt it jsut be a discount monk
lusty grotto
poor arms and fury though
knotty wagon
without damage 🤔
spring surge
It’s pretty frustrating how they “design”classes right now. I feel it’s over complicated and just makes things feel lacking. I don’t see why there need to be a trade off on classes.
neon tangle
Idk if they really intend for damage to be a “feature” of warriors
spring surge
It should be a feature of tanks. Not just warrior.
warm plinth
We just do more damage, generally.
crisp pecan
Discount monk, lel, love it
ionic fern
They do.
lusty grotto
ive always wondered
do you get less rep with warmode off?
or is rep not affected by warmode status
warm plinth
@lusty grotto Not sure if you had seen my previously posted response, but I'm wrong. It does NOT increase reputation gain.
lusty grotto
ah ok
warm plinth
I must have confused it with the darkmoon buff when I tested it last time.
indigo radish
what's the top prot m+ trinket dps-wise? i'm seeing top streamer not equipping top simmed trinkets
lusty grotto
have you considered that maybe they havent dropped for them?
which is why looking at top streamer equipment is stupid?
kind glen
I mean, yeah it's probably not the smartest thing to do but damn, Nim, straight for the jugular.
lusty grotto
also, the APL got a push this week iirc, but it's still not finished, so sims are a bit more reliable but not quite there yet
ionic fern
Take trinket sims with ~70% reliability as of now - i'll go over them this weekend so it should be up next week.
lusty grotto
cool
indigo radish
no i mean most top streamers played a lot so they definitely have choices
ionic fern
Also remember that the "top streamers" are not always going for full on DPS.
indigo radish
i see
lusty grotto
what are they wearing?
ionic fern
I know that Glickz etc prefer some nieche leeche build with diamond and stuff
lusty grotto
i mean diamond is super good
if they are pushing they might opt to go more defensive
ionic fern
"Also remember that the "top streamers" are not always going for full on DPS."
ionic fern
😄
indigo radish
what are you guys' preference for trinkets?
ionic fern
Rezans/Vial/Diamond mostly cause that's the only decent trinkets i have
lusty grotto
Vial, Butcher Block, Rezan, Anchor, RAGE, Diamond, Knot
indigo radish
im just curious cause vial seems really good but it sims low in dungeon slice
for some reason
lusty grotto
that's pretty much the whole list, with grong maybe coming up as recommended (but not sure)
indigo radish
i don'y have that but aiming to get it
indigo radish
thanks
lusty grotto
hero damage yuck
ionic fern
I'd advice you to sim your own character on raidbots.com
To see how it fares with your own gear/trinket choices.
slow kiln
Is that Deathguard Breastplate trait Endless Hunger worth having for high keys? Or is Iron Fort straight better.
Debating on replacing Deathguards with Divine purification so I can roll with 3 BoM traits.
lusty grotto
prot specifics are always better
ionic fern
Divine has Deafening/BoM both tho.
slow kiln
Okay cool. So would it help to replace Deathguards, which gives me 3 BoM, 1 DC, 1 IF and 1 CR or should I keep deathguards and and roll 2 BoM, 1 Dc, 2 IF and 1 CR?
I'm leaning more towards Surv for high keys
ionic fern
Wait, i'm confused..
Deathguards gives you DC/IF
Divine gives you BoM/IF
slow kiln
Either way ima lose a BOM tho cause I'm using Tempered Jade Helm Lockjaw Shoulders and either Deathguards or Divine purification
ionic fern
Jeap.
slow kiln
Shoulders and helm both provide the choice between DC and BoM
Yea I'm confused to and im kinda noob to tank lol
ionic fern
If you're after defensive go with
Head - BoM/CR
Shoulders - DC/IF
Chest - BoM/IF
From the choices you have.
So 2xBoM/2xIF/1xDC
slow kiln
Ok ty!
crisp pecan
@ionic fern could you evaluate my azerite picks?
modest wedge
You dont rly need 2 bloosports this week
crisp pecan
this is what i am thinking about but not sure
crisp pecan
btw tried 2x AD yesterday and anytime i am having 2x raptor after pursue its RIP
ionic fern
What are you even focusing on? m+ or raiding? 🤔
modest wedge
I would not talent overwhelming power as a tank. Some guys have different opinion but I just dont see it as good since stacks go flying by
hot locust
Mwahi stormforged PogChamp
ionic fern
I wouldn't take any Bloodsports tbh.
Probably go with
Head-DC/w.e
Shoulders-CR/BoM
Chest- BOM/DC
But that's mostly cause i'm more out for DPS.
hot locust
OP is really good even as prot.
ionic fern
^
hot locust
Definitely should take it if you have the option
it's probably the strongest secondary trait even if you are tanking full time.
ionic fern
Pretty sure OP has a ICD on stack loss.
hot locust
it's 1 second
crisp pecan
Ok, why BS is bad, because of necrotic, rite?
warm plinth
Yes
crisp pecan
kk, makes sense
warm plinth
Under normal circumstances it's fine as long as you don't care that it provides 0 DPS
crisp pecan
btw this robot from engi helm, if this spawns and you use shroud - it aggroes
modest wedge
is that a statement or a question?
modest wedge
i've had one aggro problem ever with shrouding. might be that otherwise it hasnt happened 🤔
crisp pecan
well, i though it is hiding with you, like a mount
but nope
so just if you would wonder why shroud got focked up
ionic fern
It's also the same with Demo pets afaik. Not so sure about hunter ones.
modest wedge
Demo pet 100%
crisp pecan
Guys, you also struggle on rezan when 2 raptors are on top, this week
misty tiger
It's nearly impossible to reset stacks if your group sucks and aggro 2 raptors. To limit the risk, you can tank him in a way they can kite in the water and not near the bones. (And tell them to do so). Usually they never aggro even one raptor this way
ionic fern
Jeah - just let your team know to kite him between yellow-red when they get Pursuit
misty tiger
a pic is worth a 1000 words 😄
outer dew
Dang
Mwhai yellow know
Btw a other way to reset is to have your dps move under the boss and bait the boss to choose you
(:
potent anvil
raptors will take priority to kill at least for necrotic anyway, if they spawn
crisp pecan
paku
fast kiln
weary nacelle
hey peeps, i know this is beoing discussed on daily basis, but do we have already any solid confirmation (based on logs maybe) on which Zandalari trait would fit us best. Is Paku our final decision here?
umbral forge
So I tried pushig keys.
Did a +10 Tol on time, would've been a 2 chest if the Priest didn't go into cannon and start shooting other mobs as reaping procced.
Got an atal 11, thought it was a free key.
That key got depleted when the pug mage accidentally pulled the pack in the middle.
Why live
oblique garnet
@ionic fern gz on the golden boi
ionic fern
Thanks. : )
@weary nacelle the testing is still on-going.
Paku seems to be the safest to go with atm if you do m+ and Raiding.
Bwomsandi is ~2% ST .
@umbral forge the pack in the middle is actually a pretty efficient pack.
It's not that dangerous and gives ~11% iirc.
I used to ignore it as well but as of late we've always pulled it.
umbral forge
Really?
hot locust
Yeah I've been pulling it lately in my keys as well.
do it after 80% reap though
on way back from 3rd boss
then just do 1 bird after last boss for 100%
umbral forge
Would it be smart to pull it as the stairs fall down to Yazma then run down and kill the pterro at the tower after Yazma
ionic fern
^
hot locust
That is indeed what I was getting to
umbral forge
Well that answers that
hollow thorn
Its really time efficient
ionic fern
Just plan around it and let your teammates know that you're planning to pull it..a lot of people are still not used to pulling it.
nova gale
The middle pack gives 15%
hollow thorn
You should do it every Tyran week
On Bolstering u CC patrolling Saurids and kill them first
nova gale
I do it on fortified weeks aswell tbh
hollow thorn
Same, but it might be too hard with "worse" groups on forti
Its such a joke on Tyran weeks
stone magnet
Question regarding this talk about pulling the middle pack - I’m assuming y’all mean the 2 triceratops and the troll?
If that gives 15% what route are y’all taking?
Do y’all go right or left from the start? Priest or the Totem boss first?
umbral forge
@stone magnet Rezan then Vol'kaal.
"Direct" path to Priest has mods so cancerous its essentially blocked off.
nova gale
you do purple reaping with light blue and boss
then the last light blue in middle is after last boss
stone magnet
Dang that looks totally different than most groups I’ve gone with
little ravine
Sorry if this has been posted before, but it seems like they added an invisible wall when you try to go around the pack at Vol'kaal to the left and jump onto the platform. I just remember that the strat was going up the hill to the left and jumping on. Has this een fixed for a while? I've heard of the strat but never attempted it until wednesday
little ravine
😮
hollow thorn
but the time it takes for 5 ppl to do it, is not worth the time i think
cus its pretty tricky
but doable
little ravine
what is the trick out of curiosity? I think we had 2 DKs so we just controled to 2 big dudes on the pack before the boss anyway
hollow thorn
You just went on top of some rocks
and jumped onto the platform
and pulled pack to side on the way out
ionic fern
You usually try to shroud the 2 packs before Vol anyways.
on your way out you can either death skip or have a hunter do it if you have one.
umbral forge
Or a mage/rogue. Or a night elf
ionic fern
^
little ravine
alas we are horde
ember arrow
@ionic fern stormforged poggers
ionic fern
ember arrow
Lets hope its not still a joke role
dull pilot
does the trate over welming power stack or no ppint in haveing 2 ?
ember arrow
Unique effects dont stack. But increases in stats do. At least back when i played.
hollow thorn
It stacks, to answer the question
dull pilot
k
hollow thorn
@ember arrow Resub when
hollow thorn
So you're never gonna resub 
hollow thorn
Best M+ Tank
ember arrow
Nice
oblique garnet
@nova gale with that route wont you go over % by alot if you kill the pack in the middle?
hollow thorn
You skip a skycreamer pack, the 2 on side with Priestess and basically everything b4 Volkaal
oblique garnet
Yeah but on his route hes also pulling so much on the left side
hollow thorn
I doubt he would pull that if he overcaps % 🤷
oblique garnet
Im just curious will he trigger the last reaping if he kills the pack in middle before going to yazma
Not on pc so cant actually check the % in mdt
oblique garnet
Yeah seems that way atleast
nova gale
@oblique garnet nope
You do it after yazme
its 0.51% over on percentage
so one saurid
oblique garnet
Ah
fathom cedar
How good is the trait Endless hunger for prot wars?
ionic fern
What's your other options in that same circle?
fathom cedar
DC but already have 1
oblique garnet
Id still go with 2nd dc over it
oblique garnet
Oh wait its the one with the vers stat stick?
oblique garnet
Didnt the heal have a cd
gaunt dawn
Endless Hunger is big
hollow thorn
its a lot of vers
gaunt dawn
The only issue with it, is that it's capped at 400ilvl
ionic fern
I never tested the trait myself regarding the healing factor but just the vers it provides is pretty decent.
gaunt dawn
Healing is once per mob iirc
fathom cedar
I went with Endless. Thanks for the help
empty inlet
sanguincell dont dorp anymore?
crisp pecan
yes, if you have alchemy i believe
knotty wagon
@gaunt dawn :ooooo hiii
jovial steppe
Hi is there any list of spells of mobs/bosses you can spell reflect?
jovial steppe
thanks mate
sick sentinel
Yo @ionic fern is now a golden boy
ember arrow
@gaunt dawn long time no see
ionic fern
sick sentinel
Shit now I gotta argue with a golden boy instead, that's harsh
ionic fern
Not arguing - constructive conversation. 😄
ember arrow
Synonymn
sick sentinel
That's a better way to say it 🤣
ionic fern
Did ToS 19 yesterday..still semi-hurts. 😂
ionic fern
Nerf's still noticable tho..last time it was ~180k per hit on a +18
crisp pecan
guys, you can reflect ALL cyclones at once?
hollow thorn
If you get hit by all of them, yes
ionic fern
Do you mean like all casts of the cyclone strikes or all of the tornadoes that come out of one?
crisp pecan
tornadoes
sick sentinel
was he targeting you?
or were you a bit far away from him?
when I am saying right on top of the guy I really mean right on top of him
stoic pilot
Like right in front of his model or literally inside of him
sick sentinel
inside of him
crisp pecan
he wasnt targeting me, i do not reflect my own cyclones
crisp pecan
so that is possible
crisp pecan
My success rate of reflecting cyclones is around 40%
crisp pecan
i did refelcted 2 and got hit by 3, i think it is because i was not standing ON TOP of him
like facte ot face
face*
gaunt dawn
👀
hollow thorn
large
ionic fern
It's actually not..i think i've had it go wrong like 2 times in total as far as i remember.
stoic pilot
Not really risky since it’s not unknown what makes you die to them now
stoic pilot
Being in the wrong spot
Spell reflecting a jolt right before
And trying to reflect your own cyclone strike
stoic pilot
According to Kaege, literally inside the model
sick sentinel
imagine if we had a trait
that didn't consume our spell reflect when we reflected something
knotty wagon
thatd be cool
sick sentinel
that was the joke
ionic fern
Posted it just in case someone diddn't play back then. 😦
On a side note - who are the 2 bosses in FH active this week?
rough egret
thank you
sick sentinel
my descriptions are flawless
nimble solar
Is the new kultiran passives worth a racechange from human to khuman if im only doing m+ tanking ? (Around 15+ keys)
sick sentinel
racechanges are almost never worth it
like the difference is so minimal that it doesn't matter
knotty wagon
Money is free tho
sick sentinel
also +15s are a joke anyway
the only racechange for mplus that I would accept is to nelf of skips or belf for purge
knotty wagon
I like dwarves for necrotic 😮
I just go for which race i like the best aesthetically rn
ionic fern
It won't be a game changer in any way.
It's a constant tiny heal that's always there but it won't make a difference in the grand scheme (like most racials).
If you have too much money and want to racechange for m+ specifically you might wanna consider either Dwarf or DID for Stoneform/Fireblood to remove debuffs/bleeds , LFD for more DPS or NE for some potential Shadowmeld cheese.
knotty wagon
Yus
nimble solar
Alright couldnt find any information about the actual Benefit of the stun and heal 😄 thanks tho!
ionic fern
You can check raid logs for some understanding of it.
sick sentinel
because you get reduced damage from vers and then increased healing from vers
ionic fern
Conclave mythic
astral crystal
What was the fight duration?
nimble solar
@ionic fern what is the time
ionic fern
astral crystal
Doesn’t seem bad at first glance
ionic fern
Was just the first Kul'Tiran log i found.
astral crystal
It’s like a little hot on you
nimble solar
Im probaly gonna try it out 😄 hoping my transmogs doesnt look shit on Them
signal plover
@nimble solar they look great in anything with 3d textures. Otherwise they look like they're wearing tights.
jolly hawk
So tonight I'll spam normal mythic then into m+, I've read the guides and faq's etc, but any tips in general for m+ tanking?
primal crypt
@jolly hawk download mdt and plan your pull route first
Mdt is method dungeon tools
Check your percentages
You want to pull as close to 100% as possible without pulling more
Things will change a bit at key level 10 and higher though, we tend to get the last bit of percent after all bosses are dead to not get the final reaping
Mythic dungeons also emphasize on the trash mob abilities, make sure to brush up on those through method dungeon tools as well
If you right click on particular mobs in the addon, it shows you the list of things they can do to you
jolly hawk
Ah I didn't know that bit o.O
primal crypt
Yup, the more you know about the trash mobs, the more you can pull together and aoe down safely
One specific pull that comes to mind is the crag boss in underrot and all the mobs around him
I tend to pull the flower mob with the bloodswarmer and maggot, then grab as many blobs as possible.
Flower mob will stun people, bloodswarmer will chase people and maul them, maggot will puke on the entire group, but the blobs just aoe. So you can plan to deal with each of those maggots before you go in.
BUT, I recommend you go in and experience the dungeon mobs and stuff in real time too, don't get stuck reading mdt all day, just go feel out the dungeon at an easier level to see what they actually do to you and your group
vocal skiff
One thing that I see people do in streams and I try to incorporate in groups, for that room in particular, is ccing the bloodswarmers and maggots so we can pull more at once
solid pumice
is anyone using tidy plates and know how to set the aggro stuff for protection spec? like when i loose aggro on a mob to change it's health bar color?
sick sentinel
U have to go to tidy plates on the interface and switch the spec
It's set as dps and not a tank setting
sick sentinel
Yes set it to tank
sick sentinel
Yup
sick sentinel
Because its swapped
solid pumice
Awesome
jolly crest
No, you're awesome!
silver tangle
which trinkets should i use for m+ ?
ionic fern
Depends on what trinkets you have.
Most people enjoy a mix of Diamond/Vial/Rezan/Everchill/Buthcers/Jes'
sick sentinel
Ahem #ui-addons-manager btw
sick sentinel
Jes is not that good for mplus with current levels of gear
Because it's pretty common to reduce avatar cd to 45-50 sec with AM so it's not up even at every other avatar
solid pumice
How much parry and block chance for a prot warrior ?
sick sentinel
That question does not even make sense
Get off of here and go to #268491842637660160
glad cradle
I like it, and travel time between packs makes it useful enough to use it at 400
sick sentinel
Yes but other trinkets are just better IMO
ionic fern
Well, sad thing with trinkets is that you get what you get and you have to pick the best out of them - so i just listed the most common ones .
sick sentinel
^^
glad cradle
Haha yeah, I don't have amazing to choose from
sick sentinel
If you want something to farm, farm atal and wcm
brisk ferry
after running AD for a month straight, and last week geting my 410 weapon and 415 shield. Yesterday AD dropped 405 weapon and bonus rolled 400 shield....
weary thorn
hooray for wow casino loot!
brisk ferry
so fun
actually the dungeon was fun, a PUG where everyone pulled their weight, we actually just crushed it
weary thorn
nice
brisk ferry
I guess now I'm gearin a boomkin? Has anyone seen one in the wild, how are they in M+? lol
he was Guardian, but I dont love Guardian, Feral is poop and healing I dont think is for me
sick sentinel
Bonus rolling mplus
brisk ferry
I dont raid, and trying to get a Rezan's higher than 400
rather, I bonus roll 1 mythic boss per week, rest I just dump wherever
oblique garnet
@brisk ferry boomkin is ok not the best not the worst just ok
lackluster damage in aoe
but good boss damage
brisk ferry
oh really? I honestly would've guessed the opposite
but I havent seen one since Legion
knotty wagon
#sooth
oblique garnet
nah