Low keys can be difficult to learn in though because people typically aren't going to kick or stun or cc the right mobs
#protection
smoky pilot
SSL
dense flame
Yeah honestly as people suggested to me here. The best way to learn is to try to test what your boundaries are for each dungeon. Know what the trash mechanics are. Basically feel where you need your cds and know it’s okay to fuck up.
fallow terrace
What's ssl
smoky pilot
stormshield legion
fallow terrace
Best thing you can do if you're not in a guild is post your own groups. Maybe title it "learning the deungons noob friendly" or something. I guarantee there's many in the same boat as you
You can find like minded people to run and take it slowly
And maybe even get someone really experienced to queue up
Who can teach you some things
wary gyro
I often que up to groups like that on alts I'm trying to gear
fallow terrace
Don't be afraid to add fun people too. Running with a consistent group can be a major help
smoky pilot
aye
sand egret
@smoky pilot you don't need a key to join other's M+'s
fallow terrace
Once servers are up though I can run a low dungeon with you today if times match up and jump in discord and talk through the pulls so you can see the mentality of someone else when going through them
sand egret
after you do your first one you'll get your key. I'd suggest just riding that (since you're a tank, it's pretty easy to get people). Ride it up a bit so you can cut your teeth on harder stuff. Since it's your key, you can set the pace/expectations. I haven't had a guild all expansion so I did this exact thing
stoic pilot
Just make sure you don’t let others discourage you, lower keys have some toxicity from players. Just try to learn as much as you can
sand egret
yeah, there's a lot of "go go go"''ers
I try to set expectations early, it's always easy to find another dps 😃
smoky pilot
ive done the jew howler one but like you guys mentioned there was a DPS who just aggro stole and pretty much tanked the whole thing
gave me one of their drops though so that was nice but i didnt learn anythign
fallow terrace
Yup that's why I suggest a learning group title. It sets the expectation on queue. And don't go for super high ilvl people in your groups. Everyone around the same ilvl will help you maintain threat and discourage the geared person from Mass pulling
sand egret
agreed ^
fallow terrace
You won't learn anything if you have a 410 eye beaming on pull lol
sand egret
there's a surprising amount of people in the same boat as you.
smoky pilot
kk
weary thorn
lol, I'm catching up on this convo and jew howler made me laugh in a fucked up way
simple typo, but funny
fallow terrace
Like is said if times match up I'll run through something low with you and explain what I do on the pulls so you can at least see how someone else approaches it. I'm not saying I'm amazing cus I'm a new warrior but I have a lot of tank experience on bdk and brm mainly
Lmao major
wary gyro
Yeah theres a lot of people out there who cant really get into m+ because they lack experience or are just too intimidated by it
wary gyro
Yeah
weary thorn
m+ can be intimidating because quite a few people are either amped up to time it, or they are jerks towards anybody not themselves
smoky pilot
yea ill take you up on that @fallow terrace would be very helpful
fallow terrace
I'll be on after 530 est today. I can either tank and talk through it or walk you through as tank your choice. But once you learn the mobs and pulls that's 90% of the battle
sand egret
a lot of people project expectations on others, especially in pugs. Like, i get that your guild group does this pull strat....but clearly this entire pug has no clue why you're doing that shit....
smoky pilot
aye ive finished work for the day now so i should be free
wary gyro
Theres also a lot of people out there especially in lower keys I've noticed who are expecting everyone to be a pro at keys already
weary thorn
had an rsham decide to be the main pack puller last night in what should have been a breezy 6 td, so I just let him die after a couple times
sand egret
yeah it's the "late in the expansion, so everyone should know this shit" fallacy
smoky pilot
i think something that can be intimidating or seems as thought its intimidating is constant rejection from a group
fallow terrace
Don't forget there's many people who queue up. No reason to take a 350 when a 390 is in where
smoky pilot
the amount of denials when trying to join using the in game group finder is high (for me atleast) and you get this passive idea your not right there to do them yet
sharp dew
Lmfao shot him with the cannon
sand egret
yeah you gotta remember that you may be next to a tank who's 40 ilvl above you atm..
weary thorn
@sharp dew he thought he was the tank, so yea I got him with that boom boom
sand egret
so it may not be like a "fuck that guy" thing haha
wary gyro
Yeah the other thing I notice is if you dont already have a decent io score or ilvl you will struggle to even get accepted to +2-3s sometimes
sand egret
hence why you gotta
smoky pilot
yea i get it
smoky pilot
i dont let it bother me, i try a few give it 5-10 go do some world Qs then try some more groups
sharp dew
Even if they’re 410 ilvl I won’t take them if I’m looking for something specific so once your higher ilvl and maybe you get declined, could be because they’re looking for something specific, not that you’re a “bad player”
smoky pilot
aye
modern brook
oh no
wary gyro
Honestly being a tank helps a lot especially as you get into the 7+ range you start being able to get into groups that otherwise wouldn't look at you just because tanks are hard to find
weary thorn
that too, specific comps can trump ilvl
modern brook
are we doing that thing where we blame rio for not being taken in keys
sand egret
nope
smoky pilot
think ill go try one out quickly 😄
sand egret
we're working on ways to for this guy to build it!
fallow terrace
At the end of the day everyone wants to blame the tank or heals so that can pretend they played perfect. Don't let it affect you. Have fun and look to learn from each dungeon and you'll be good in no time
modern brook
"lol why"
oblique garnet
I personally have no issues into getting groups because of rio 8)
modern brook
nerd cause i dont want you 😠
smoky pilot
atal, dzor or something its called, should i go 0 get the key and ride the key up you reckon then?
fallow terrace
Starting with atal or freehold is a good idea they're the easiest
stoic pilot
I have no problems getting into groups either because the only groups that exist on alliance are sub 10 groups 
weary thorn
^
daring marlin
I never do tbh anymore lol
fallow terrace
I'd avoid shrine motherlode til you're more comfortable with the class. Your primary goal is hold agro and stay alive until you're comfortable
weary thorn
simpler solution, play single player games so you dont need friends
oblique garnet
Oof guilford that means i would have to have friends
daring marlin
LOL MAJOR
stoic pilot
Yeah but what about when you get that 17 KR on teeming fortified and everyone else has it too
oblique garnet
You blast it anyways
modern brook
oof late
oblique garnet
What have you got to lose
stoic pilot
True
halcyon oasis
what trash can you skip in KR to skip last reaping before final boss?
stoic pilot
I’m so bad at doing keys for dungeons I dislike
narrow abyss
I hate pugging
stoic pilot
I avoid KR / ML like the plague
weary thorn
I actually like KR, but my group hates it. So we rarely go in
daring marlin
at least ML will be less annoying going forward
narrow abyss
ML got so annoying after the new route
daring marlin
the 50 casters in certain reaping packs is lol
fallow terrace
ML - get 100% asap and death run. So fun 😁
wary gyro
The changes to shrine mean I might actually run it now
olive merlin
I never minded motherlode.. that was usually one of my better keys. Shrine though ugh
stoic pilot
I like shrine cuz the last boss is pretty fun
halcyon oasis
i think shrine is easier than KR
weary thorn
serious question for yall, anybody else go into ToS the first time they tanked necrotic and just assumed that the eye orb room mobs wouldnt apply necrotic? Because I did that. I found out I was wrong when I got 99 necro stacks
oblique garnet
I actually really dislike the get to 100% and deathskip twice strat
You can live the 99 necro stack
fallow terrace
Lmao major. Def learned that one the hard way
oblique garnet
As long as the orb guardian doesnt touch you
undone sun
lol
weary thorn
@oblique garnet he touched me
undone sun
how many stacks is 100% negative healing for necro now
wary gyro
I first did it on my pally which makes it much easier
oblique garnet
First he was there but now he gone RIP major
fallow terrace
50 thyme
undone sun
hmmm
mossy cave
I dont think anyone likes the deathskip but damn. Those mastermind, assistant, alchemist, tester packs are worse.
oblique garnet
Eh they are not that hard anymore
stoic pilot
The pack right before 3rd boss was the one I had an awful time with on a 15
narrow abyss
I got deleted by throw rock last night
Forgot to block as I was gathering
It’s been so long felt like 8.0
daring marlin
the dreaded throw rock/wrench
mossy cave
yeah that's the one meeker. 15+ fortified. lots of magic damage too
olive merlin
That pack right before 3rd boss.. the girl who shoots azerite on the floor... that group of 4 melted me hard
wary gyro
I love that pack on mage they have a great buff to spellsteal
smoky pilot
ok got a group around my ilvl, here we go
mossy cave
the alchemist buff? yeah that's good
stoic pilot
I really enjoy the 3rd boss as warrior though it’s so satisfying to reflect debuff every other application
fallow terrace
Gl
narrow abyss
Yup
olive merlin
How do you survive that pack? My healer asked if I was naked
mossy cave
you can bait that debuff on third boss in case anyone wasnt aware. always applies to closest 2 targets. can coordinate folks with cd's if it's worth to your group
narrow abyss
Yeah my two outlaws alternate
stoic pilot
I was curious. When you guys are doing reaping waves is it even worth hitting shield block? Would the rage just be better spent on IP spam for the debuff dmg?
narrow abyss
Ip spam for debuff damage?
narrow abyss
Reaping isn’t much damage
Honestly. I think live and die hinges more on healer dispelling at right time
Than anything else
daring marlin
yep
I had my buddy healing at one point
he usually dps's
and he got caught up with people eating smashes and healing them and said he couldn't dispel me
I ate a 300k dot
just like ok lol
naive panther
I had a run I died every reap cause I got up to like 40 stacks
daring marlin
shit's nasty
vocal elm
Is there a faq for what Zandalari Aspect is the best for tanking?
potent anvil
once risen souls are grouped, after the dispel you can shockwave or call for an aoe stun and hit spell reflect. you'll reflect the debuff (not onto them) all at once. pretty nice to prevent a huge restack
old zephyr
Did you try Motherlode Last week ?
daring marlin
I saw that mentioned the other day
daring marlin
good use of it during reaping since you can't exactly reflect grave bolts lol
old zephyr
Because Man It's gonna be an all you can eat buffet
daring marlin
well at least that won't be the case anymore @old zephyr
halcyon oasis
@potent anvil is that the green or purple swirl?
potent anvil
risen souls are the minor reaping guys that apply the dot debuff when they auto you.
sick sentinel
wait
if you aoe stun
and spell reflect
will you reflect like 20 stacks at once?
potent anvil
you reset their auto swing, and you can reflect all of it at once
daring marlin
That seems to be the idea.
undone sun
presumably, if the cheese as sense stated works
potent anvil
it does, i do whenever i can. it works the same way as shadow claw from the last mobs in waycrest
if they do it at the same time and you reflect, you take no dmg from any of it
undone sun
Blizzard: you can no longer reflect infinite amount of spells for the duration of SR
Warriors: good joke
stoic bluff
should i heal myself for more than the healers is healing me?
daring marlin
lol no
tacit wyvern
maybe on reaping
daring marlin
^
stoic bluff
like overal
daring marlin
cuz VR is insane on that
tacit wyvern
never no
stoic bluff
my friend is insisting i should. We just did a waycrest, and i found it a little stressing that i healed myself for 5 more mill healing than he had done to me. That was completely normal according to him
ionic fern
Maybe he's confusing you for a bdk?
undone sun
warrior isn't a reactive tank, IP is just a damage buffer and by no means will it outheal a healer
tacit wyvern
that is a wrong answer
and even bdks typically dont outheal the healers, in overall.
daring marlin
^
oblique garnet
I usually do more healing on myself than the healer does to me
tacit wyvern
i main prot warrior/blood dk, ive had dungeons where im close, sometimes more, but typically not
oblique garnet
Ofc thats with ip absorb etc
tacit wyvern
but never on warrior lol
daring marlin
you still running around with that fucking
uh
I can't remember what it's called
the one where you heal on mob death
oblique garnet
Vampiric speed?
tacit wyvern
Victory Rush
oblique garnet
No unfortunately that was on a 400 piece
daring marlin
booty
oblique garnet
Gonna try and get it again next reset
oblique garnet
@daring marlin can you check which piece is the most likely to have vamp speed + bom
tacit wyvern
servers are up
oblique garnet
Gotta try my luck with it tmrw
daring marlin
fuck off they are?
tacit wyvern
just got a 425 socketed vial
daring marlin
liar!
narrow abyss
Rolling helm today. Pray for me for that helm
tacit wyvern
lets go
tacit wyvern
POG
daring marlin
KR shoulders have
tacit wyvern
i actually love playing pure dps
daring marlin
BoM/BS/UF/Vamp Speed
tacit wyvern
on my warrior lol
daring marlin
I like that
oblique garnet
No dc tho
narrow abyss
Yeah
tacit wyvern
debating on whether to run rush or clap radius this week
oblique garnet
I have 7 pieces of 415 gear
daring marlin
I want my bags filled with asserite
halcyon oasis
what do you guys think about treacherous covenant on prot
kind urchin
I wanna be able to put avatar and demo shout on a macro together again.
tacit wyvern
what are you guys running, leap talent or clap talent for necro
stoic pilot
I think azerite would’ve been so much less hated if reforging was free / changeable like talents
daring marlin
due to the seasonal affix being reaping crackling never comes off my sheet personally
narrow abyss
I do clap
stoic pilot
I want to pvp so much but it’s so expensive to go back and forth
tacit wyvern
just saying for necro
daring marlin
even for necro
fresh valley
narrow abyss
Then I accidentally aggro pig boss in Waycrest and we cry
daring marlin
just gotta be more careful
fresh valley
can't stop clappin
narrow abyss
😂
tacit wyvern
just need to have my healer stand at a distance for resets 😛
wicked ruin
is a 400 piece with socket (vers-mastery) better than a 415 (vers-crit) ? no sure... :/
kind urchin
I have never accidently pulled that boss. On purpose, definitely.
narrow abyss
Is that a ring
teal kelp
Are servers actually up?
narrow abyss
Always ilvl imo
daring marlin
nah that man was trolling
teal kelp
Rip
wicked ruin
@narrow abyss no, pants
slow gazelle
what are the odds warrior gets nerfed into the ground? I'm currently running DK tank but don't like all the downtime, so I'm looking to boost a new tank, likely a sword and board so pally or warrior. I know warrior is on top right now, but do you think it'll stay that way or are they going to get beat with the nerf bat sometime soon?
daring marlin
Warrior gonna get clapped
undone sun
or we dont
teal kelp
I feel like if anything gets nerfed it will just be dps
narrow abyss
My guess is they’ll take some of the damage away
undone sun
yeah without a doubt
daring marlin
good thing I'm keeping my pally up to date for when it happens!
undone sun
chances are they take Avatar back off of AM
daring marlin
not that I'd stop playing my warrior though
narrow abyss
That would be depressing
teal kelp
I’m making a zandalari pally as my secondary
narrow abyss
I’d rather they nerf BOM
fallow terrace
Warr ust got good with 8.1. Should have at least til 8.2 before getting clapped
kind urchin
They had it all wrong with the GCD. It's not the ability to pop the cds, it's the strength of the cd's.
narrow abyss
I mean if they don’t touch existing survivability too much I’ll still play it
daring marlin
I'd be cool if they nerfed UF damage as long as I get to keep clapping as often as I do
kind urchin
Outside of avatar we actually don't do that much damage.
narrow abyss
We really don’t
daring marlin
our damage is comparable to other tanks outside avatar
assuming DS is up anyway
which it will be lol
narrow abyss
If I were to make a guess
MDI gonna show off some nutty shit with prot damage
And maybe that’s when
halcyon oasis
wait, warriors are considered to be at the top?
old zephyr
Some of the mdi competitors may run paladin so they may over shadow the prot thing
daring marlin
@halcyon oasis are you living under a rock?
halcyon oasis
i'd figure paladins, monks and dks are considered better than us
narrow abyss
Warriors are so fotm right now @halcyon oasis
halcyon oasis
yes
daring marlin
no lol
narrow abyss
We’re insane atm
halcyon oasis
i am new to the discord and since our buff with the last patch haven't done much reading about tanks
daring marlin
bears aren't even that bad
narrow abyss
Probably the seasonal affix helps a lot not just warrior buffs
halcyon oasis
everyone just thought prot wars were trash before
narrow abyss
But yeah we’re top pick
late cedar
I've never we tanked in my life and now I'm wanted by everybody just bc of the color my class name
halcyon oasis
that's crazy quazi
kind urchin
We've been saying the whole expac that warriors do massive damage and mitigate more than others and it took a whole patch cycle for other people to realize it.
olive merlin
Once everything settles down bdk and monk will be back
narrow abyss
I still contend that ranged block was huge
daring marlin
bdk is 🗑
undone sun
pfft
narrow abyss
I’m gearing a BDK on side. It’s just not the same 😢
mint adder
BDK has been put on the shelf
old zephyr
And it was damn time
kind urchin
I do my weekly 10 on my bdk and monk and that's it for them.
daring marlin
people always went on about throw rock/wrench
I was scared of the shoot
guess they just avoided KR like the plague
lol
mint adder
Wrenches are terrifying too as a bdk
kind urchin
We get 3 more minutes now though.
olive merlin
I need to get better with my warrior. Was having rage issues last night. Came here and couple guys said use all the things for more rage! So I went to the dummy and was shocked at how much more rage I got. Was trying to be more selective about what I was using.
daring marlin
I love that prot is considered good now
old zephyr
Be à warrior, smash away
modern brook
goodsave guilford
daring marlin
I was always an arms/prot warrior
narrow abyss
Yeah non proc revenge spam is biggest culprit
daring marlin
@modern brook I went 🐒mode for a second
mint adder
Inside avatar make sure TC is on cooldown at all times
olive merlin
I was getting my ass kicked in ML so was also trying to keep IP up. I lost the struggle
old zephyr
You can ip without SB
mint adder
ML does hurt, but you shouldn’t be having rage issues imo
old zephyr
But don't do it if it Will use all your rage
late cedar
Abuse that last stand shield too
sand egret
and reflect that shit
mint adder
You prioritize SB over IP unless you’re fighting third boss in ML
sand egret
for da bigg badaboom
potent anvil
ML is just unfriendly to tanks in general. On fort weeks, dont pull more than 2 mechs unless you're feeling frisky. Spell reflect on CD for charged claws.
Preemptively use a defensive when engaging earthshapers in case you fear you might get globaled by earthshock in the beginning. Kick/stun/cc rock lances. Ez
narrow abyss
4th too is magic auto attack no?
stoic pilot
^
narrow abyss
Dude. So I did a decently high (for me) fortified ML first time
Why do the mechs with charged claw
Murder me
😂
halcyon oasis
any tips on tanking H Jaina as prot war?
mint adder
I think 4th boss’s attack can be blocked though
daring marlin
keep SB up or you're gonna get fisted
sand egret
@potent anvil what earth shock?
stoic pilot
Make sure you actually shield block @halcyon oasis
mint adder
But also reflect in cd
narrow abyss
Shield block is everything
stoic pilot
I didn’t on our first kill because I’m a mongoloid and thought it was magic
potent anvil
@sand egret earthshapers cast earthshock, randomly. seems to be every 25s. its what chunks the tank in the opener
narrow abyss
You let ice shard go through unblocked ur gonna get dunked quick
sand egret
really? it's not on their spell list 🤔
halcyon oasis
i use SB on cooldown since it increases damage of shield slam, but i main a DPS, and we trialed a new prot war who only used ignore pain 6 times during the whole fight.. my guild was looking @ logs and said "why would he be using shield block if all she does is cast?"
potent anvil
its listed in MDT, and you can see it on logs
halcyon oasis
we compared my normal jaina vs. his heroic jaina logs and i used ignore pain like 36 times vs. his 6
sand egret
weird
halcyon oasis
it's a rough fight and i prefer to DPS since if i fuck up as a tank in raid i feel bad
but my guild keeps asking me to tank it instead of trials
potent anvil
topaz badger
should shieldblock be delayed if demo shout is on?
sand egret
that's rock lance
topaz badger
or can it overlap?
sand egret
unless im reading it wrong
potent anvil
no, look at the spell id and name
sand egret
🤔
potent anvil
undone sun
@topaz badger what? SB and DS aren't mutually exclusive
kind urchin
Shield block mitigates far more than demo shout so you'll still want it up. Don't use it during last stand though.
Provided you're using Bolster.
Which I would highly recommend.
old zephyr
I was saying, If you are not, respec to use it 😃
fresh valley
i did Tol Dagor last night. I felt like a wet noodle in there. The seaspeakers did sooooooo much damage. Throw in the non-blockable "throw rock" and i was getting pounded worse . any tips on those packs on fortified?
old zephyr
rocks are blockable
narrow abyss
You can block throw rock...
old zephyr
yell at you DPS for not kicking seaspeakers
topaz badger
@undone sun well ofc not, but it does reduce damage, just wonder if it might not be overkill to have them both up.
undone sun
generally DS isn't really used for the DR
narrow abyss
Rage
potent anvil
@sand egret https://i.imgur.com/NQH8dgY.png
undone sun
it's just a bonus
weary thorn
that earthshock damage
narrow abyss
Demos DR is nice when it’s unblockable damage
kind urchin
20% dr is really nice.
stoic pilot
So basically hit SR off cd to try and prevent a couple earth shocks
sand egret
yeah damn, i'm seeing it. weird they got some sneaky ES shit in there
potent anvil
rock lance isnt what kill tanks since its controllable. its when they just randomly decide to earthshock you
topaz badger
ok, so I totally ignore ds when it comes to defensives?
narrow abyss
There’s no Telegraph?
sand egret
makes sense
topaz badger
just use on cd
potent anvil
nope. it's like frost shock from KR
narrow abyss
Damn I didn’t even know it had earth shock
Explains randomly getting chunked once in a while
potent anvil
you ever do a triple pull and have 5 earthshapers in the pack and you get globaled? that's probably earth shock
narrow abyss
Figured a bunch of rock lances got loose or something I didn’t see
sand egret
yeah I always figured that as well haha
narrow abyss
My poor dps
daring marlin
@halcyon oasis Your guild seems to lack fundamental knowledge of Jaina if they think all Jaina is doing is casting lol
halcyon oasis
most of them are DPS or heals, but that's good to know
kind urchin
Blockable
brisk ferry
man I can't read DS and not read it as death strike
potent anvil
on fort weeks, you have to open with a defensive against earthshapers imo
weary thorn
everytime I see AM I read AMS
brisk ferry
yeh same lol
halcyon oasis
we have AOTC but haven't been obsessed with reviewing logs because we had some GM issues and our raid team changed guilds twice and was more concerned with just pushing for AOTC. now we are trying to build up enough people to push mythic
narrow abyss
🤮
narrow abyss
Get out
brisk ferry
s'what happens when u play DK for like 9 years
narrow abyss
😂
weary thorn
I benched my dk long ago
mint adder
@fresh valley magic damage hurts us a lot, especially on high fortified keys. It’s important that you tell your dps that ‘this needs to be interrupted or I will die.’ Start having your group interrupt on a rotation and maybe even get the WA to mark casters. But as long as you aren’t dying to magic damage, groups will fiend over you
daring marlin
That can be said about any tank
narrow abyss
The automark WA is money
daring marlin
We’re one of the better tanks at taking magic damage
daring marlin
don’t @ me
mint adder
We aren’t
undone sun
pass
mint adder
That’s a meme
brisk ferry
stoic pilot
So how does auto mark WA even work. It marks everything that has an interruptible dangerous cast?
daring marlin
only bdk is better cuz their am is boosted by it
undone sun
good at taking magic damage by default doesnt mean much
mint adder
Have you fought third boss ML?
daring marlin
Yup, I have.
old zephyr
Third ml boss is not that bad
old zephyr
Tunnel all your rage to ip
undone sun
pass
daring marlin
hearth out and change to never surrender
kind urchin
Ignore pain, spell reflect, demo shout(for that sweet 20% damage reduction) and shield wall. We're pretty good at taking magic damage.
narrow abyss
Yeah it auto marks anything that casts
late cedar
The auto mark wa auto marks anything that needs a kick
undone sun
ip is still shit
dont @ me
narrow abyss
Some guy tweaked it to add and remove some mobs that are high priority in dungeons
undone sun
😏
late cedar
I just say I have x let the other dps do rest
daring marlin
@kind urchin Much better than the other tanks not bdk for sure
@undone sun look legion ip is dead
I’M SORRY
brisk ferry
@narrow abyss mind DM'ing it to me, if you don't mind
daring marlin
We can’t rez it!
stoic pilot
Which marks does the WA use?
narrow abyss
Don’t mind at all
late cedar
I've seen skull x moon square star
sand egret
sips tea on rocker I remember the days that I could hit IP a bajillion times and take a nap
narrow abyss
brisk ferry
oh sweet, thank you
undone sun
i remember getting IP to absorb more than my own hp
daring marlin
heh
brisk ferry
I went down the rabbit hole of WA's last night, it's fun
daring marlin
T21 2pc op
narrow abyss
I have to stop myself from over doing it and my entire monitor is lighting up with information that doesn’t help me haha
brisk ferry
on the topic actually, I am trying to find a WA to track Shield Wall duration
undone sun
something like 12-14 million absorb
kind urchin
I kinda just miss having defensive stance and a rotation not riddled with rng. That's just me though.
mint adder
Anyone know when servers are coming back up?
brisk ferry
says 3PMK Pacific
kind urchin
Soon
weary thorn
@brisk ferry there is one listed in the resources-faq
undone sun
several hours from now
mint adder
That’s gross
brisk ferry
there's one for Shield Wall??? I couldn't find it
undone sun
it's currently 1030 PST and they stated on the launcher 3pm PST
weary thorn
its both shield block and shield wall
called block tracker in the protection part of the resources-faq
brisk ferry
yeh I have that, it tracks SB and the shield block from Last Stand
weary thorn
shite sorry fellas
undone sun
block tracker doesn't show SW
brisk ferry
nothing for SW there
undone sun
only SB and LS
stoic pilot
You just want a weakaura that tracks duration?
brisk ferry
I appreciate the effort, but I dont think that's it
stoic pilot
It’s super simple to make that
Just make an icon and go into load and in the spell name just type Shield Wall and just configure text size
weary thorn
yea the WA wizard is easy for simple stuff like that
undone sun
SW aura really isn't that important, most suites should have one anyways
weary thorn
if you're learning it
stoic pilot
I need to add more to mine my UI is so barebones
brisk ferry
I removed my bulky WA and just have for the defensive stuff I wanted
but yeh SW was the only thing I was missing. But I could try to make one myself I guess, never tried
thanks everyone
weary thorn
WA is fun to mess around with if you have some time. I often take a suite and then change the colors, font sizes, etc to my liking
undone sun
wouldn't need to be complex as all, could really just copy an existing one and change the spell it looks for
ez
brisk ferry
true, the IP one for example lol
undone sun
yeah
narrow abyss
Why I like TMW. For quick and dirty stuff I know how to make my own
WA confused the hell out of me beyond importing 😂
stone imp
WA has a template GUI. It'd take like 4 clicks to track SW.
weary thorn
the template gui is a good way to break into making WA's
its got more depth than you'd think for a wizard tool
narrow abyss
I’m scared of change
undone sun
it's for the better
orchid sand
Helllo
brisk ferry
hi
weary thorn
she read the patch notes and bamboozledya
brisk ferry
LOL gottem
orchid sand
hahahahaha
brisk ferry
thoughI think it's still down, isn't it?
weary thorn
yep
brisk ferry
big RIP
weary thorn
till 3pm pst supposedly
stoic pilot
We Gucci friends
orchid sand
cya men
brisk ferry
well would u look at that
brisk ferry
enjoy duders, 2 more hours of work here
weary thorn
workin for another hour then an hour and a half commute weeeeeeee
brisk ferry
oh garbo, I moved 2 minutes from my work because of that
smoky pilot
the servers been down?
weary thorn
I'm not moving into Maryland
undone sun
for maintenance, NA realms @smoky pilot
brisk ferry
I live in Atlantic Canada, you either live in the city or buttfucknowhere
smoky pilot
ahh
weary thorn
fair
smoky pilot
was gonna say EU servers been up for ages
weary thorn
I live in VA, I'd rather stay there and just commute to MD
that way I can keep my blasters for the inevitable zombie apocalypse
stoic pilot
new portals look really pretty
orchid sand
im stuck @a log on screeen
orchid sand
darn it
stoic pilot
tfw only like 2 shoulders that don't have bom and I get one of them
olive merlin
I would hate the ride from VA to MD.. VA traffic is horrible
weary thorn
eh, I'm on the road early enough to avoid the worst of it. Plus audio books
ocean acorn
does anyone know how good the zandalri loa racials are
topaz badger
you should only use avatar when demo shout is avaiable right?
potent anvil
use it on CD whereever it makes sense (get the most out of avatar's 20s)
solemn magnet
do Stacks of bloodsport increase the bonus to ignore pain?
potent anvil
yes
solemn magnet
bah i would take that over my 410 crit/verse belt
I had a 410 verse/mastery belt already
brisk ferry
do you have a higher gore-crusted block, is that why you're sad?
cause that's a great open
near furnace
No, but didn't think it was great for prot, especially defensively
solemn magnet
Does crit affect our crit block chance ?
weary summit
no
analog swift
Ayyy @weary thorn va represent. Went to law school in md but took the bar in va because I don’t like commies
weary thorn
ha, commonwealth 4 life
primal crypt
inland mesa
Rude
sick sentinel
Good, I aim to please
kind urchin
Well, I got a vial in my chest.
stoic pilot
hey me too, high five
charred hamlet
heys guys , quick question, what is best ? -> 1H 400 ilvl + socket or 1H 405 ilvl
olive merlin
Be happy with your 410s lol I'm getting a 400 lol
weary thorn
400ilvl > 105 ilvl
charred hamlet
haha mb
weary thorn
lol
charred hamlet
405 =p
stoic pilot
405
weary thorn
weapon is almost always ilvl
charred hamlet
ok thx for reply ^^
small fable
Probably pretty great to grab threat on a reap
And situationally as a ranged aggrro grab
It sims very high for me
But obviously moving the targeting reticle even with a macro is a distraction, however minor
twin hazel
can just macro it so target on self
thats what i do for my DK for D&D but i also have one not macrod for when it needs to be placed
sick sentinel
If it's just help grab threat might be useful
But lacks in damage for aoe, but ok for ST
U can play with it and see how u feel but again it's dps is kinda meh
modern brook
@fierce juniper In your spread sheet you say that the generic traits are random => unreliable => less useful than Prot spec options; does this remain true if we stop looking at stuff from a tanking perspective?
Ie: a very common question is "X generic > 2nd DC?"
Or would the consistency of application of something like more clap damage still out weigh the offensive benefits of something like moar haste [sometimes]
narrow abyss
Thank god you fixed way/weigh. That was killing me
modern brook
IDK how to spell
narrow abyss
😂
modern brook
I'm not a mage dude
fierce juniper
If the choice is actually between a generic and a 2nd DC then the generic is going to provide some survivability over a 2nd DC of course, and as for DPS that's a matter of sims/knowing what traits are better for DPS. DC is gonna be more DPS in dungeons most likely, but hard to say for sure.
modern brook
I guess a more direct way to ask my question is "Despite prot traits being better on the whole, are there still certain niche scenarios where taking particularly good generics could beat out some of the weaker traits?"
Namely CR, BS, and Multiple stacks of DC
fierce juniper
There probably are. Or rather you could play around traits so that becomes true. e.g. taking a vers proc trait or something similar over a block trait if there's little blockable damage. Stuff like that.
I mean it's all situational ofc. I can't think of anything where you'd actually want to take a generic over a prot trait, unless you'd be taking a really good generic over Callous for raids. But even then it still depends.
modern brook
Understood, thanks
modern brook
:^)
you can ask here; sims can provide a benchmark though to my knowledge are still unfleshed out
fallow terrace
Dps or defensive trinkets jardi
modern brook
what trinkets are you choosing between
shadow jetty
I have a 385 prism, and a 395 rezan
and I just got a 410 mchimba bandage from my coffer
So I dont know if should switch out
modern brook
yoof.
analog swift
ight i know these questions suck. 415 servant splitter or 410 adulation enforcer? I know almost always ilvl but didn't know if the stats scaled better in M+
shadow jetty
thata str increase means bigger IP
modern brook
weapon damage is too important
prism is better
than bandage
but bandage has more str
near furnace
I'm currently trying to choose between 385 prism, 410 butcher block, 400 gigavolt engine
shadow jetty
all right ty
modern brook
butcher giga @near furnace
25 ilvls is a lot to sacrifice
giga is mainstat, onuse haste right?
near furnace
Yep
kind urchin
Not sure if 410 vial or 405 galecallers beak is better.
modern brook
beak
beak is Str; vial is mastery
both onuses are really good
both line up with every other avatar
if u wanna be OMEGA u run both
and use one on every avatar
warm plinth
@shadow jetty Do not get rid of the prism. If you need a defensive trinket ever, prism is spectacular.
modern brook
:^)
kind urchin
No
modern brook
Armor from Str
modern brook
45 more STR = > more armor from vanguard; stronger attacks; larger Ignore Pain absorbs;
You're still benefiting from a 2ndary absorb affect, you just have to be cognative about it
If the question is "which is better, passive stacking absorb shield with less str, or 45 more str and an active i will never use" use the dlrp
shadow jetty
oh yes, I know I did mean 45% more staming period,
modern brook
Oh
Yes
TBH u can ignore vanguard
ITs basically just a passive "we didnt want to create tank specific gear and over complicate the loot table" ability
its almost entirely a modulation for blizzard balancing purposes
shadow jetty
thanks a lot for the info!
undone sun
undone sun
@sick sentinel it's more about what it's competing with, generics usually aren't better than spec specifics for prot
dense plover
which piece should I try to replace? I feel like they all have ok stuff besides maybe the bloodsport piece
Ive got the residium for a random or should I save for bis now that I have 415 in everyslot?
modern brook
@sick sentinel scroll up a bit
Marok and I had a cute exchange RE: generic traits and prot specifics
sick sentinel
I think it’s vs the shield block one
The one that does damage when you block
Not the shield slam one
Idk. I’m kinda thinking at least 1 trait might be worth keeping around as prot has no self heals only absorbs
jovial haven
if you save your residum they will more than likely change the pieces before you get 3 specifics
undone sun
almost positive it's never worth saving for specifics
oblique garnet
its 7 weeks to get one specific piece
jovial haven
you could probably get 3 specifics in time if you're an engineer and make the 415 engineering helm
supple path
Hrm, same ilvl, crit/mastery ring vs vers/mastery. Without wearing anything in the slot, I've got ~1k crit rating and ~300 vers. Thoughts on crit vs vers in that scenario?
minor fox
What's the opinion of the discord on the uh, bonded souls pre nerf and post nerf, obviously post nerf is gonna be bad, but I want to know if right now it's good to be used
oblique garnet
eh
modern brook
even pre nerf u only considered it on 2 pieces
post nerf i'd say u still consider it on the one where its VS CR
i tihnk its rhast* chest could be wrong
minor fox
Well right now it's between it and bloodsport
oblique garnet
Wowow bullfango thats toxic
oblique garnet
No u
modern brook
@oblique garnet are u out of NA playtime?
tawdry hound
huh
oblique garnet
@modern brook i have 3 days left
daring cedar
Noob question: is it bad to stack either Deafening Crash or Iron fortress
daring cedar
Alright. ty!
oblique garnet
nice guilford
daring cedar
Bastion good for stacking?
oblique garnet
yes
daring marlin
amazing
sturdy trench
any1 noticed the diamond laced 15% buff?
sturdy trench
so its now irreplacable for prot?
daring cedar
ty
sharp dew
Wasn’t it just a pvp only buff?
sturdy trench
from my understnading it affects everything equally
also
what does this mean
Sword and Board now increases critical strike by the correct amount.
undone sun
the change isn't even only pvp
sharp dew
Make the bis defensive trinket that makes all the other defensive trinkets look like trash 15% better, I’ll take it lol
cyan kettle
hi Guys! i haven't played since 8.0 so i wonder if the prot warri is good now for m+/raiding ?
undone sun
yes
patent flower
@cyan kettle Best tank imo
cyan kettle
WHAT
undone sun
not completely biased 🙃 asking the warrior community of warr is good
sturdy trench
cans ome1 answer my 2nd question plz:)
cyan kettle
war was always good but in 8.0 was a bit hard to get result
patent flower
@cyan kettle Then you werent paying attention...Zek'vos /Fetid/Zul and Ghuun prot warrior was amazing.
modern brook
RE s&B; it means s&b increases crit strike by the correct amount, compared to the previous, erroneous amount
upper spoke
is raidin w/ leashes available w/ this patch?
twin hazel
Vectis was the only rough one in uldir that i got to on prot
patent flower
@modern brook But when you pumpin 40-50k dps on zul who cares lol
modern brook
Ur sub rogues :^)
sharp dew
^
modern brook
Also pour one out for sub
sharp dew
@cyan kettle for a more direct answer, yes prot is extremely good atm. Used in world first prog raiding, and all the bdk fotm boys have rerolled to prot for m+ as well.
potent anvil
so i abandoned the triple DC meme. went to triple bom/dc/2x rf instead for the ST dps meme
lime mantle
Second defeaning or iron bulwark?
Also is bonded souls still good after the nerf? I'd say yes.
undone sun
sure, it's a good trait, but generics are usually worse than prot specifics
teal kelp
what loa passive for prot? paku(crit) or bwonsambi(shadow damage/heal) ?
undone sun
no one has done the maths yet ¯_(ツ)_/¯
teal kelp
its a 5day cd
undone sun
yes
oblique garnet
bob salami most likely
teal kelp
you think so?
oblique garnet
yes
teal kelp
do you know where the shrines are?
sick sentinel
Holy shit
That Kings rest shrine timer increase
And fucking finally with the fix to on death affixs
broken roost
Azerite trait - what is rf?
hot locust
reckless flurry a fury trait
broken roost
Oh hm
hot locust
its our #1 single target dps trait for prot actually
narrow abyss
😂😢😭
broken roost
By a lot? Hah
undone sun
by enough ¯_(ツ)_/¯
hot locust
Pretty good margin
vocal skiff
hot locust
2x reckless means it'll do ~10% of your total damage most raid encounters
acoustic sparrow
damn I didn't even think about reckless fury trait for prot :/
brisk rain
knot or refracting prism for m+?
undone sun
hmmm
brisk rain
all i needed to know
oblique garnet
@hot locust wowowo wtf lala calling me out like that
oblique garnet
as any reasonable person would
hot locust
not in lower keys though only pushes
oblique garnet
i mean im not replacing my prism until i get a phat 420 feather from tortillan emissary
a.k.a the 4th and 5th BoM
solemn magnet
Is the Bwonsamdi trinket from Rastkan any good for prot ? I tried to get the diamond for almost a month and no such luck
solemn magnet
i have a 400 rezan, bwom, Barnacle, howler, and gladiators insignia
undone sun
trinkets that require near death to be effective are trash
solemn magnet
oh and butcher block
undone sun
can always be prevented by above average play
solemn magnet
which combination would you go ?
warm plinth
Insignia is the one that has vers with str proc?
ionic fern
"+157 Versatility
Equip: Your spells and abilities have a chance to grant 63 primary stat for 20 sec."
stoic pilot
Out of curiosity, macroing Vial with Avatar isn't a bad move correct?
Getting a bit out of hand how much I need to shift my hand to get my burst started and was curious
ionic fern
In general it lines up with every other Avatar anyways if you get it down to ~45-50s
stoic pilot
And you'd basically only be using it with avatar for dps in m+ I'm assuming
ionic fern
But i wouldn't macro trinkets to anything.
stoic pilot
but hitting , then shift 7 and then x is so annoying 😭
tepid dagger
solemn magnet
So Rezans and insignia
warm plinth
I don't see why you couldn't macro it if you never use it outside of Avatar tbh
I have a trinket macroed to Avatar
stoic pilot
I honestly don't really see the point of using it outside of avatar, but if I did want to use it outside of avatar it's bound
But I may just put it in macro as well
sinful stone
do you think a 2nd defeaning crash is better than brace for impact strictly for M+?
warm plinth
For DPS, yes. For survival, no.
sinful stone
yea i guess that really is the difference, hmm
oblique garnet
if youre confident in your survivability go for it
warm plinth
I'd probably use the 2nd DC personally
distant crystal
i'm running triple BoM triple DC this week
#yolo
brace is kinda whack for M+ tbh, rather have IF and/or bloodsport
chilly brook
There’s not a real reason to not macro your trinkets tbh
I was doing orange parses in Uldir when macroing mine
distant crystal
well you lose a GCD of avatar if you bind it into that
chilly brook
No
warm plinth
?
chilly brook
Trinkets don’t take up a gcd
warm plinth
Trinkets don't trigger GCD
chilly brook
^
distant crystal
yeah but you pop your trinket while doing nothing
chilly brook
Uhhh
warm plinth
Avatar triggers GCD.
distant crystal
if you modifier-bind it into your thunderclap
warm plinth
So you can't cast anything in that global anyway
distant crystal
then your trinket starts with the first clap during avatar
chilly brook
That small half a second won’t make a difference
distant crystal
instead of during the dead GCD where you cast avatar
chilly brook
It won’t make a difference....
warm plinth
Oh, I see what you're saying. But as long as the trinket has its full duration inside Avatar, it makes no difference.
chilly brook
It won’t.....
distant crystal
it will.
chilly brook
Not enough for it to be a relevant discussion....
oblique garnet
its miniscule difference
warm plinth
You could do that if you wanted to min/max it, sure. But generally it wouldn't be worth caring about.
distant crystal
it was just a natural carryover from how i did my mage's binds
because it's more relevant with balefire branch and arcane power
since balefire's buff scales down
although if you're using a trinket that scales down, it matters more
like lion's strength
oblique garnet
oof
chilly brook
Why is that an oof?
distant crystal
as a shadowpriest main i hate ur guildmate
open bluff
imagine using primary stat gems in bfa 
distant crystal
@open bluff yeah i still have no idea why int gems sell for more than haste gems but i like it
i don't think any dps/tank specs value primary > secondary
but healers still do for the most part iirc
open bluff
not even healers really value mainstat rn
but secondaries also aren't far enough ahead of primaries to be worth sacrificing ilvl
for pretty much anyone (unless you're a brm and the item has a fuckton of haste)
vapid tundra
what loa to go for prot zand troll?
acoustic sparrow
I wonder how useful/practical the heal on use ability will be for zanda prot
undone sun
pretty much, seems niche when it cancels on all damage
sand egret
could be fun with a MW. RoP > Channel in the middle 😃
but if stuff like GW and such break it then mehhhh
lime mantle
Throws an axe at you
Dot ticks
^Non damage dot ticks^Aparently this isa thing too
open bluff
i'd prob go bob salami over paku tbh, 12 sec duration on 1 ppm is basically just a third trinket
sand egret
i have to look into the procs
open bluff
bob salami is 3ppm and you're healed for 100% of the damage dealt
sand egret
which one is bobs?
acoustic sparrow
I doubt it would but I'm wondering if it would circumvent necrotic stacks or if it would be reduced like any other heal
open bluff
(likely a lot of overheal, but still slightly more reliable)
undone sun
undone sun
no heal bypasses necro
sand egret
hmm Paku seems best on paper. What's the damage # look like on the Bob proc? is it per damage instance or will it be applied to all things affected by the cast?
undone sun
bobs is 3rppm
acoustic sparrow
necrotic has a dot too, right? So even if it did the dot would cancel. Lame
open bluff
the dot doesn't do shit
sand egret
if i clap is it proc'ing on one target or will it proc on the clap and apply that to all
open bluff
the main drawback with paku is 1 rppm
so it's effectively just a third trinket with the 20% uptime
sand egret
which isn't bad, tbh
open bluff
yeah, i'd personally go bob tho
sand egret
passive bootleg goreblock
sand egret
if bob proliferates its effect based on the cast targets it could be fun, but I doubt it works like that
mellow abyss
quick question overwhelming power or Unstable Flame
sand egret
oh not the cast rate but the damage instance
if i TClap and it "procs" does it proc for the TClap (all targets get the damage instance) or does it calculate per target hit individually
i highly doubt the former, but it'd be fun
fresh valley
and what about the heal effect being overheal? which basically nullifies it';s use
undone sun
so pick paku ¯_(ツ)_/¯
healing procs are bound to overheal, that's the nature of proccing
it's a "free" heal
either that or a "free" 280 butchers block (4% crit)
acoustic sparrow
I'm assuming the defensive value of Krag'wa won't be enough to choose it over the dps Loa's?
patent flower
Im gonna go bob salami
fresh valley
same with paku though no?
open bluff
crit = parry
fresh valley
ah
undone sun
RNG to more RNG, parry isn't really the consideration
step 1) racials are incredibly marginal, step 2) in history defensive racials wont be life or death
distant crystal
step 3) pick goblin
distant crystal
wonder if it works in arenas
modern brook
Theres a theory that Assassination mastery increases the damage of Kimbul Loa