:F
#protection
outer dew
outer dew
My warrior p-geared where maybe I just find a casual mythic guild for bear
And live the m+ life
ionic fern
We were talking about defensive traits vs offensive traits in raiding scenario.
quartz pond
yes
outer dew
Lemme bench the warrior raid tank
modest wedge
opulence but even that is kinda not necessary
undone sun
?
hollow thorn
BFI should be on par with DC on dmg (assuming 2nd DC)
outer dew
Aite
Ya need to agree that with my warrior at 414 and my raid group disbanding
I go join some casual 4/9 guild on bear
ionic fern
?
The whole discussion was "Do i have to swap away from offensive traits into defensive ones for raid"?
I said that no he doesn't since the outcome will depend on his play much more than trait choices.
outer dew
And just spend my tier doing m+
quartz pond
okay sure
but isnt BFI
good on ST which is what ur gonna do on all fights
and also defensive?
outer dew
LF new raid is so demoralizing
ionic fern
hollow thorn
Even with perfect play why wouldnt u use defensive traits?
quartz pond
so u would probably do more dmg with a defensive traint?
ionic fern
Cause they are not needed in most scenarios?
hollow thorn
what do you mean by not needed?
quartz pond
either way u wanna push as much dmg as a tank
as long as ur raid doesnt suffer with it
small storm
you dont need dps traits as a dps either, but why would you shoot your raid in the leg for no reason
quartz pond
but at the end of the day
shaving 3-4 seconds off a fight
cuz u do 10% more dmg as a tank
is
🤔
small storm
its all about if you want it to be eaiser for the raid as a whole or not
strong forum
Mechanics is everything in a raid, ilvl compensates enough in the defensive matter
If you die, it's most likely due to a fuck up and not due to defensive traits
There's no real reason to build defensively unless yourself are scared of something or it's REAL heavy tank dmg
Or undergeard ofc
quartz pond
yes but that statement was a lot more relevant
when tanks could do relevant dmg
back when vengence was a thing etc
quartz pond
tanks were encouraged to live on the edge
since they could actually be top dmg at the end of the fight
these days idk
quartz pond
well that was almost 5 years ago
hollow thorn
When you are progressing a boss, why wouldnt you go wthi defensive traits. it reduces the dmg you take and the dmg change is minimal. On a fight like Mekka where its really hectic for healers, having the tnak take more dmg cus "hurr durr, i wanna do dps" is dumb. If its a reclear then who cares what traits you have, but when progging a boss using smt like 3x DC is literally handicapping ur raid.
quartz pond
same way u would never take warpaint as fury
cuz ur healers gotta heal
if u die its their fault
hollow thorn
its not about dying
undone sun
the dmg change is minimal.
hollow thorn
its about taking the least dmg possible
undone sun
same can be said about defensives
ionic fern
Yet again - your gameplay handicaps your raid more than your trait choices.
strong forum
What thyme said
undone sun
traits wont make a difference between life and death
hollow thorn
well swapping 1x DC to 1x Bfi, is definetly better defensives and pretty equal offensive
outer dew
Y'all mofos rich
I use to have 100k reforged
Because I switched traits for raid and m+
strong forum
I haven't reforged more than 4 times
ionic fern
Look, if you feel like you have to use defensive traits for w/e reason then do it.
But it's by no means neccessary.
small storm
well by now you should have like 2 pieces in each slot
stoic pilot
Still am blown away that blizzard isn’t competent enough to allow azerite to have multiple templates based on spec youre in as well
quartz pond
I made a second engi head just to not reforge
strong forum
Or keep the ones you have and don't swap for raid cuz it doesn't mean shit
flat trail
any suggestions when tanking underrot with the dot from the skelly packs ?
ionic fern
Kite.
strong forum
Kite
outer dew
SR first and kite
quartz pond
charge ur healer
small storm
yell at ur healer to dispell
strong forum
Stun on the cast
quartz pond
it usually works great for me
outer dew
If you SR it. It just falls over
outer dew
Lol
That's the main thing
You waste too much time and damage if you just kite and stun
tacit solstice
small storm
just get 3xbom 3x dc and aoe 4head
strong forum
3x DC is wasted
outer dew
No, because you lose a ton of damage not being on it and you DR next set of stuns and stops you from properly pulling into next pack
Gotta get more trash yo
Ain't no pussy 5 mob pull smh
eager hedge
Well... k then
eager hedge
😂
lime mantle
I like when I open the chest I get a 410 cape to replace my 415 cape with socket.
I wanted a belt >:
Also azerite residue wise, should I stockpile or...?
stoic pilot
First time I’ve heard someone get something 70 ilvls over the titanforge cap and not be happy with it
🤔
strong forum
Well stockpile if you're happy with what you got
lime mantle
I woke up goddaming
strong forum
If you need different 415, go try your luck
lime mantle
it's hard to type with 60% of my brain off 30% working on typing and 10% working on remebering why did I woke up late
Currently I have a bunch of random 385 items so I'd guess save up for a 415 random is the go to
strong forum
For example I got 2x the same 415 shit shoulders from rnd piece, so I'm still running grong shoulders
stoic pilot
It’s okay I had a brain dead moment last night and didn’t know ice shard could be blocked on Jaina
strong forum
And buying 3rd shoulders today
lime mantle
It's fine meeker, we can be paste eaters together.
strong forum
Ye save up for 415s then or get atleast some 400s if you don't raid
lime mantle
I do but not really because ally Eu is hard to find a group unless I fuck off back to Spanish servers
strong forum
Don't move
ionic fern
Use a defensive + be sure to keep SB up for the melees meanwhile.
strong forum
You take bonus damage on the bleed if you move
Didn't know that until 1 month ago, I do the pvp shuffle at all times so hard to just stand still
sick sentinel
@ruby ridge I've been using meticulous scheming and it is not that bad just depends what you are picking it over
@ionic fern anchor can be around 3-5% of your damage in an mplus
sick sentinel
@steady fiber a 415 without a bom is still better than a 400 with bom
strong forum
True
wintry ermine
hoping for opulence head tonight, if I don't get it I'm randoming a 415 head 😄
strong forum
I won't be seeing anchor anytime soon since I don't clear heroic anymore
Or well, only did once cuz fuck heroic
wintry ermine
I don't even have curve yet since our heroic raids are on a day I cant play 😦
sick sentinel
@ionic fern having 3 BoMs in raids just gives you another defensive CD (similar yo pressing SW while SB is up) but a lot less tanky when avatar is down, so yes harder to heal
strong forum
Tbh I wanted to get CE without getting curve, but then we did heroic run
ionic fern
Still not significantly harder than using anything else.
strong forum
Woulda been kinda funny to have CE but not curve
hollow thorn
Thats not possible
lime mantle
How does BoM stack exactly?
ANd is there an API to scrap all azerite traits from?
strong forum
How is it not possible
hollow thorn
Cus u get curvw from killing mythic jaina
lime mantle
Cheetos are scalar
strong forum
Ah rip
lime mantle
Ie: doing x on max did counts as all others too
sick sentinel
@flat trail sr first hit and then kite if you don't have a druid or hunter
They can soothe that
@flat trail use a defensive and spam the shit out of ip, it does not do all that much if you are blocking
It was pretty fine in a +20 tyrr atal and I have like 3% vers (so nothing against bleeds), it doesn't even do your whole healthpool in that 8 seconds
It just makes you take 50% more physical damage
lime mantle
Question about Multiple BOMs:
I assume the mastery stacks, does the IP also stack?
sick sentinel
So if you are dying to the bleed it means that you are allowing hit to go unblocked
@lime mantle no
strong forum
Only the mastery
sick sentinel
Ip caps at 1.3x any way so it would have made absolutely no sense
lime mantle
👌 dance
I mean I’d assume it would still cap
I assume it also doesn’t proc bloodsport innit?
strong forum
I assume so
lime mantle
I’ll check when o get home
strong forum
Since the trait increases base IP and is not an additional buff
And BoM gives you 1 IP
It's going to be "buffed" IP
But the leech I don't know
lime mantle
Logic assumes that mechanically it’d be like hammering IP+avatar at the same time
But my “I know blizzard” brain says it’s just the effect, not an actual usage as such you don’t get the leech
strong forum
(I do that anyway since I'm not used to BoM yet)
lime mantle
(I do that when I run with lots of pugs because I am ina state of permanent panic)
ionic fern
Nome, do you have any logs regarding that movement & rezans debuff dmg increase?
sick sentinel
Btw @strong forum do you know what I say when I see guys like you doing the pvp shuffle?
"Stop adadadadadaing you fucking spastics"
Unsurprisingly enough, they don't stop
lime mantle
What’s wrong with it?
finite heart
quick question for prot m+ - Brace for impact or bonded souls better?
lime mantle
I do it on movement bosses and also jump
(Albeit DH plating has made me stop te jump)
sick sentinel
It's wrong when you're in fucking opulence for example
lime mantle
I don’t do all the time just shit like sisters or similar
sick sentinel
Because you don't know where the beam spawns
On sisters ofc
You are supposed to do it
rapid tide
Melee on Opulence that run circles around the boss all the time...
And then complain that they can't see the laser and that it needs a debuff or sth.
👌
lime mantle
It’s like showing a xiv friend a wow battle and they ask “where are the aoe indicators?”
rapid tide
Started xiv yday and the aoe indicators are indeed very juicy.
I would honestly love those in WoW 😄
glad prairie
incite the pack or blood sport?
rapid tide
Bloodsport for defensive value.
Incite the Pack if you don't care about defensive but want to buff others.
finite heart
@rapid tide Brace for impact or bonded souls for m+?
glad prairie
ty
lime mantle
Sometimes they’d be nice because of the background blending into the visual cues Jaine.
rapid tide
@finite heart I'd always go BfI for M+ unless you are aiming for very magic heavy dungeons.
But BfI is one of the top traits for physical mitigation imho.
rapid tide
Bonded Souls is really not bad though, the healing and haste is quite pleasent.
strong forum
Bonded souls does like 2.5m healing on a chill 15 for me
lime mantle
Bonded souls has haste, haste means more buttons, more buttons means more fun.
finite heart
if you were to stack the trait would the stats get increased (aka more healing/haste) ?
torpid grove
I pretty new to prot and for some reason some dungeons I feel like I’m getting tricked. While others I don’t. Shrine snacks example. Should I be prioritizing ignore pain more on caster packs? Not sure what I’m doing incorrectly.
Trucked*
torpid grove
I seem to have issues with heavy magic damage packs or dots. Like KR Is tough.
Shrine and KR have felt hard.
old zephyr
Then It's à dps are not doing kicks issues
ionic fern
Jeah - on shrine it's all about interrupting adds. And KR usually hurts because of the poisons/bleeds .
old zephyr
The dot on kr you have to proaxtively work with though
Stunning to interupt the cast or prevent stacking for exemple
torpid grove
True true. Water blasts just destroy me. I’m sure you guys know what I’m talking about.
old zephyr
Yes
ionic fern
Jeah.
In pug's Shrine is usually pretty horrible due to no voice-comms so you either gotta mark and call for who interrupts what or just hope for the best and pop CD's
torpid grove
Exactly. I’ll try to be more proactive in calling interrupts. Will probably help a lot. One other question. last stand says you block all attacks during its duration. Is that accurate? I tried using it on reaping and seemed to still get the debuff. And it’s sort of counter productive since the dot is health based. Any reaping strategy?
ionic fern
If you have Bolster talented then it blocks all attacks.
The on-hit debuffs still get applied.
undone sun
blocking doesn't negate attacks, just reduces by a specific amount
old zephyr
blocking only reduce damage
torpid grove
Ahh
ionic fern
In general you try to gather Reaping up as much as possible and then just nuke it down & stun it while avoiding the smashes. Healers should dispell at around 20 stacks give or take.
old zephyr
last standing the reaping may not always be a good idea due to the %based damage tough
if you feel like you are taking a lot of damage, a boomy might help you.
ionic fern
Plus reaping doesn't actually melee that hard .
old zephyr
between 6sec AoE silence and trees they soak A LOT OF DAMAGE
ionic fern
They hit for like 2k per melee or something like that.
torpid grove
Yeah I ran with one once it was nice. Same with shamans
old zephyr
Shmans have more AoE damage and can negate 1 big pull, but boomies are more overall soaking
this week sham may be btter though
torpid grove
Thanks guys!
old zephyr
bigpull during reaping, earth and Lust it
might as well get the boss with it while you are at it with shaman
crisp pecan
guys, thses dueal reanimated honor guards on atal are ripping me apart
hollow thorn
Thats why u skip em : P
ember arrow
lusty grotto
@sick sentinel did you see the deva thing
turbid nest
410 Murky Cerulean Signet with Speed or 400 Seal of the Zandalari Empire with Leech? I'm guessing go for ilvl, but didn't know how strictly that applies to rings with no strength
sick sentinel
wait so having RF procs devastator twice as often?
sick sentinel
ah
strong forum
@turbid nest murky isn't really a good ring, unless you have really nice haste it's not worth it to take a ring without haste imo
ionic fern
@lusty grotto what do you mean?
turbid nest
@strong forum Yeah, kinda noticed that when I tried swapping them around. Dropping 4% haste is kinda yikes
lime mantle
Isn’t that a fury trait that works off recklessness and shouldn’t affect prot at all?
narrow abyss
Auto attack
undone sun
auto attack damage
old zephyr
it works on Auto attacks
lime mantle
Yeah but it shouldn’t affect devastator which changes your AA to be just extra damage and chance to reset slam
old zephyr
@crisp pecan BL on pack after BL, what do you men?
crisp pecan
beh
weary nacelle
so you guys really getting RF as a trait?
ionic fern
It's one of the better ST traits.
undone sun
it's still technically a better ST trait
weary nacelle
i would take ST = single target?
undone sun
yes
weary nacelle
but why would you sacrifice another trait to get some more single target dps. We are not good in ST target dps anyway.
maybe for mythic progression?
ionic fern
Mostly for parsing and more ST dps.
🤷
It provides no defensive value what so ever so it's just on the table as a DPS increase.
lime mantle
I was asking on the proc not damage.
weary nacelle
what about the proc?
lime mantle
Someone said RF makes devastator proc twice as much
wait so having RF procs devastator twice as often?
ionic fern
Again, as you can see here from "hits"
It's 157 Melees, 157 RF and 157 Devastators like it's intended i guess.
umbral forge
how big is the difference between Booming Voice and Devastator?
strong forum
It's not that much of a difference actually, even top 10 parses vary between both talents
It's purely prefence in raids I'd say
lime mantle
Devastator a shit I’d rather larp as Chad and scream my opponents into submission
late cedar
Lol
cinder pasture
Shitty bracers in my weekly chest for the 4th week in a row, but at least the azerite vendor gambling gave me something good 😄
tulip fern
I don't know much about prot warriors and their current standing. We have a 398ilvl trial tank and we are 3/9M. He is just falling over during some fights. There is some question on if it's gear and/or cd usage and timing. He is especially getting wrecked on Grong. Any insight on if he is just in over his head due to gear or if it's a play better issue?
dusk locust
grong is a strange one - if the orbs aren't being handled right it's harder for him to predict damage
tulip fern
we are handing them correctly imo. we have done the fight with a dk, pally, and dh and none of them had a problem
dusk locust
is he taking throws or mainly tanking the boss
tulip fern
i need to double check logs but i'm 95% sure it's throws
lucid bough
Its not like 398 equiped is super good
dusk locust
and orbs are cancelling every other combo before he gets grabbed right
tulip fern
yes
willow scarab
@cinder pasture Meticulous sims higher than brace and overwhelming is removed with each auto you receive so unstable is theorised to be better
tulip fern
yeah, he's taking throws
dk is his cotank
any opinion on his ilvl? should he be ok with that if we are doing orbs right and if he is handling cd's right?
it's not just grong btw, that's just by far the worst fight
i dont want to penalize him if it's a gear issue
we can fix that
willow scarab
Grong being the patchwork of the tier means huge tank, healing and dps checks so if he's dying he's bound to die more on grong
If you give us logs we can look over his AM and CD usage
heavy chasm
Being tossed does kinda suck a nut on that fight
If your IP isnt up before your tossed not a lot you can do but eat it
lucid bough
and being this undergeared
willow scarab
IP and a personal really
lucid bough
cant really help
heavy chasm
But yeah logs would help
willow scarab
I try to have my monk co-tank take all of the throws and i'm 414
I even died tonight to a bite, smash then throw
tulip fern
here are logs. there are other issues that are being addressed also.
we have a healer issue also, which i know can make a tank look bad
lusty grotto
@cinder pasture overwhelming has an icd on damage removal, pay no attention to what @willow scarab said
overwhelming > unstable
willow scarab
This discord literally told me to take flames over overwhelming
less than a week ago
lusty grotto
well they were wrong
lusty grotto
@tulip fern hes not spell reflecting grip
he will absolutely fucking get reck'd
tell him to spell reflect just before grip
heavy chasm
Hes just getting tossed
lusty grotto
he has 3 melee hits lol
but why
if hes getting tossed, then he should be doing grip correctly
thats his only job
no idea why hes not tanking grong, but i guess every guild has their strats
heavy chasm
Kind of wasted rage on the blocks too
heavy chasm
Okay fair
lusty grotto
kind of a waste overall
tulip fern
if he's getting wrecked then what good does his damage do?
willow scarab
thanks @lusty grotto
lusty grotto
hes just there taking grips
heavy chasm
But if your IP dips off its probably not worth
exotic spoke
I wonder if he knows he can SR them
lusty grotto
might as well have ret paladins taunt off combo and do grips
heavy chasm
Since it's your only real buffer outside demo and a personal/SR
lusty grotto
he probably doesn't riki
lusty grotto
you might wanna talk to the guild also
tulip fern
lol
wintry ermine
= grip does almost nothing
exotic spoke
I wasn’t in on my guilds first grong kill. We typically have 4 paladins. So they were like “were bopping you.” Despite telling them I can reflect it
lusty grotto
honestly not sure why he's being held in "just get gripped position"
lusty grotto
but why
tulip fern
i dont know why either
lusty grotto
i mean
tulip fern
guess i need to find that out
lusty grotto
you'd think
frozen ember
really interested in this. Are warriors better to MT grong then?
lusty grotto
warriors can do ANYTHING on grong
willow scarab
Is the other tank a big ego player? Maybe he wanted to carry the warrior?
frozen ember
cause in pugs I generally jsut eat grips also
modern brook
HANG ON
lusty grotto
in pugs i do all
modern brook
someone asked for fucking grong advice
and no one pinged
ME?!
yall ping me for fucking everything
lusty grotto
you're not supposed to eat grips
tulip fern
lol
lusty grotto
you're supposed to taunt before a 2x debuff
willow scarab
In raid we just kinda rotate grips based on what boss hits came out
lusty grotto
so you will eat grips sometimes, and sometimes you wont
willow scarab
Exactly that
lusty grotto
"just eating grips" is fucking terrible
frozen ember
it just seemed like war was better to eat grips cause he can SR and intercept back mid throw. But I know very little about the other tanks so maybe they're better suited?
strong owl
Yeah we weren't trying to wargame it at all with like, "make x tank take majority of grips"
modern brook
WArrior is the best at tanking the grips
hands down
other tnaks can still handle it
if the pattern puts throw on your warrior he should spell reflect, if it doesnt 🤷
strong owl
<- Hpal from the logs Sikar linked, have some exp tanking him as prot paladin as well
frozen ember
I read it didn't matter and the damage was the same, intecept or full throw. Was that incorrect?
lusty grotto
you will nuke the raid
if you intercept someone in the group
you will Nuke all of them
modern brook
How far back are you running this guy for his throws?
lusty grotto
if you're intercepting the dude that was targetted, it should be fine
modern brook
he didnt IP a single one of these - probably cause it died to the grip hes not reflecting
strong owl
Really just as far as whomever was targeted could go
willow scarab
Can't you clip in an IP in the last tick before damage comes in
lusty grotto
indeed
frozen ember
willow scarab
So evne then he's choosing not to
frozen ember
it says to just intecept the co-tank. That's what I've been doing
willow scarab
After throws just leap back in once damage coems out
otherwise don't intercept other than to help tanking
lusty grotto
DO NOT INTERCEPT while in the air
frozen ember
Additionally, if you cast Intercept Icon Intercept on your co-tank immediately after you are thrown, you will move to your co-tank instead of the player you are thrown at. Doing this does not prevent any damage on you or the Bestial Throw Icon Bestial Throw target.
strong owl
So what's the bottom line? make sure to have demo/IP up when you're getting thrown as a warrior tank, spell reflecting the ones you can't, don't intercept?
lusty grotto
i've read this already Vignarg
willow scarab
You can
frozen ember
I mean, I'm not trying to argue, but icy veins isn't some random blog, and I've not nuked anyone yet. I don' tthink! Now I'm paranoid
willow scarab
but why would you wanna blow your tank up
lusty grotto
do you have logs ?
heavy chasm
Are you doing mythic vig?
frozen ember
no it's heroic
lusty grotto
of you intercepting while in the air
frozen ember
intercepting mid air
heavy chasm
The damage is different then
frozen ember
I jsut mouseover spam it on his frame
heavy chasm
Your raid can probably handle the nuke in heroc
strong owl
Heroic throw is a tickle in comparison
frozen ember
gotcha. I'll stop the habit now then
frozen ember
sorry didn't mean to distract from the grong discussion, was just curious since all I've done is eat grips
willow scarab
Get ready to get broken by mythic
heavy chasm
Nah your fine dude.
lusty grotto
YOU ALWAYS SR before getting grip
willow scarab
Damage feels really bad at lower ilvls
strong owl
@lusty grotto word
modern brook
@strong owl @tulip fern 6 casts of Demoshout and 4 casts of avatar ina 6 minute fight is absurdly low
frozen ember
ya I always IP/SR, but apparently I should knock the intercept habit
lusty grotto
or be close to dying
strong owl
Warrior is the only class I really know nothing about
willow scarab
can demo every 20 seconds for reference
lusty grotto
SR + IP is all you need
willow scarab
roughly
tulip fern
So this is more a ltp issue than an ilvl? Even though that isn't helping obviously
lusty grotto
i mean
willow scarab
I think it's both
lusty grotto
i wouldn't blame him
modern brook
Avatar roughly every minute
lusty grotto
we didnt know until @modern brook found out
lusty grotto
if he doesn't get it though, tell him to come on by and we can teach him
tulip fern
appreciate all your time this morning. always nice to get help in one of these channels.
modern brook
He doesnt have defensive s up for like any form of actual damage
lusty grotto
is this the only boss he's getting destroyed? also for the love of god have him tank the fucking boss
frozen ember
ok dumb question then - if warrior is so great at MTing Grong, how do you MT it and eat the grips? Or am I getting confused? It soudned like a warrior "just eating grips" was a waste
lusty grotto
3 melee hits? i mean
daring marlin
What on earth is going on
modern brook
THese should always be reduced by at least 20%
daring marlin
I tank mythic and I intercept in the air.
lusty grotto
grip is always 3rd combo cast's target
daring marlin
shrug
tulip fern
this is the worst by far but he has a tendency to just kinda fall over on other bosses also
lusty grotto
what other bosses
strong owl
I have a tendency to just let the tanks do their own thing with the expectation that they're doing everything they should be doing, I don't like to micromanage people's play
tulip fern
well we are only 3/9 m so masters mostly
strong owl
But all of what y'all are saying does make sense
modern brook
Hang on how do you press Sb 18 times for 3 melee hits and 8 smashes
heavy chasm
Masters can be rough if you aren't on top of the swaps hut that's about it
For the SS damage apperently
modern brook
Looking at this log your prot war could easily have dumped all of his rage into revenges and the outcome would have been exactly the same
his cotank is carrying very hard on this fight
lusty grotto
@frozen ember you're supposed to not let tanks get 2 applications of the combo's debuff, that means that at some point either tank will get the grip. There is no "MT" in grong, if there is you're probably risking it with rends and smashes
frozen ember
Gotcha
modern brook
he's also stacking LS w/ SB which is a nono
frozen ember
thansk @lusty grotto
lusty grotto
you can get rend rend rend, rend smash rend
modern brook
not that it particularly matters
lusty grotto
so its not a MT taunts 1 and 3 situation
modern brook
when you're not atually tanking the boss
solemn magnet
@ionic fern if your doing mekka how hard was jade fire any pointers
inland mesa
Wait....can we reflect buster cannon?
strong owl
Clonesw was our tank through all of Uldir so he just kinda took the lead on Grong I think
modern brook
Major take aways for the linked log: SR any throw on him; Focus on meaningful rage spenditure; HAMMER THE FUCK out of avatar and Demoshout; Rotational cooldown usage.
lusty grotto
lol
modern brook
heres a fun graph that should be taken with a grain of salt
ionic fern
Jadefire isn't that hard. Only gets spooky at the last phase.
inland mesa
I totally ate a buster cannon last night and had spell reflect up and didnt get knocked
ionic fern
Due to all the magic damage.
inland mesa
O.O does it actually damage him, I dont know why I never put that together
ionic fern
No.
modern brook
DTPS isnt a very good metric for comparing tanks, but there shouldnt be a 30k dps difference between your tanks
lusty grotto
@inland mesa bro this is in the blockable/reflectable guide
you might wanna link it to your warrior too @strong owl
inland mesa
Yeah...probably just filed it away as I'm like oh just dodge that mechanic
strong owl
@lusty grotto will do, thanks
inland mesa
But was so confused as to why I didnt get hit haha
modern brook
not SR grip; Stacking SB LS; missing CD usage
like very common stuff that he probably already knows
THe issue on the fight is hes not even tanking it
modern brook
hes just absorbing the other half the mechanics for his main tank
lusty grotto
that's why i asked myself why is he in that position
modern brook
what happens when the DK gets thrown does the boss just go every where?
strong owl
Yeah I'm not reeeaally sure why Clones was taunting right back
For a while we were running me as Prot Pal and a VDH and whomever got thrown just OTed until the next throw
modern brook
xd vdh
strong owl
Which is what I assumed was happening but wasn't paying close enough attention to who had boss aggro because our healing situation was a bit tenuous
weary thorn
offtopic-sorta: I'm sure this has been asked before, but I'm relatively new to this discord. Is there any plan for prot to be updated in wowanalyzer, or have y'all put it to the wayside for some other reason?
modern brook
APL is being worked on by the lovely prot dudes
lusty grotto
you'd have to ask the mods
modern brook
wow analyzer would come after that
lusty grotto
i haven't really heard anything but yeah what bull said
modern brook
nim and i joined forces to give a complete answer
weary thorn
fair enough, so tl;dr its a work in progress?
modern brook
yeah
weary thorn
cool
modern brook
I can pretend ot be wow analyzer for you
Dont die
dont stack SB and LS
you missed some cds!
weary thorn
lol, I like using it for a snapshot of shit i'm missing/messing up on
modern brook
keep Sheild slam on CD :^) 8/9 possible uses
lusty grotto
your demo uptime is fucking horrible
lusty grotto
i think i'd be useful
but
obviously like everything people will just take its results as a 100% thing
weary thorn
it helped me on what I was messing up big time with bdk and monk, but I realize its not gospel
its just another analytic I can use
narrow abyss
I’m throw bitch on my grong but my co tank is parse whore and I don’t really care about mine so 🤷♂️. I stopped intercepting in air pretty quickly too when we proved 😂
Progged*
Has anyone every been teleported to the other side on opulence and both tanks end up same side?
daring marlin
no
modern brook
Im too good for that
narrow abyss
Happened to us last night. Assuming it’s cause so many people stood in fire there were like 7 people left
signal plover
Your whole raid has to be dead on your side lol
Don't mind my avatar today lads, guild discord is lit
narrow abyss
Yeah....first few pulls so everyone is running around on fire
strong owl
Yeah Wowanalyzer in my experience looks at several useless metrics for non-dps classes
inland mesa
You forgot remember what is on the reflectable list ;)
weary thorn
wowanalyzer is pretty solid for bdk, but they've got a couple guys working on it constantly
strong owl
It harps on me for not casting Judgement on CD when I'm not running Judgement of Light or when I am and it still has charges. Ah yes, very valuable GCD.
lusty grotto
fuck paw
weary thorn
well from what I understand, wowanalyzer is entirely dependent on the people writing the metrics
lusty grotto
made me look
weary thorn
so that seems like a paly mod issue
signal plover
Kek
strong forum
Bdk is beyond boring
lime mantle
Idk how to play Bdk because he don’t move fast and no press a button at all times
strong forum
Yup exactly thats boring
You're not gcd locked
Like 30apm spec
Compared to warri being 80 apm
lime mantle
Vdh feels like a more fun Bdk (self healing tank).
Yes I know it’s apples to gummy bears
modern brook
WArrior is top teir because we generate mad points that we spend on using our equipment
narrow abyss
I did better on BDK when I stopped pressing as many buttons
Hate the playstyle tho 😂
weary thorn
vdh self healing is shite compared to bdk lol
modern brook
VDH is shit compared to every tank
lime mantle
Vdh can move and Bdk can’t
strong forum
As prot main playing bdk is constant sweat
daring marlin
Hey remember when people thought prot warriors were dogshit pre 8.1?
weary thorn
vdh is the self healing tank that sucks at tanking and self healing
narrow abyss
It honestly gives me anxiety
daring marlin
o m e g a
narrow abyss
Bdk
modern brook
the prot -> Brewmaster switch is the hardest for me
strong forum
I hate community perception
modern brook
sometimes i get low and im like oh its ok I'll pop a coo-- oh god
strong forum
People are just retarded
We're just as tanky as before but all of a sudden God Tier... Just because people only now noticed our dmg
narrow abyss
I mean. The blocking range was huge difference for QOL in dungeons between 8.0 and 8.1
daring marlin
nomeratur remember when we got DR buffs that were basically an offset for DC nerf and the only real buff we gained was blocking projectiles and now we’re meta!?!?
narrow abyss
And reaping
modern brook
yeah it was all the damage buffs
narrow abyss
So
daring marlin
L U L
modern brook
of IP off GCD
lusty grotto
alabaster hyena has to be my favorite mount
modern brook
Ur my favorite mount nim ;^)
lusty grotto
whoa
lime mantle
IP off gcd is a massive buff
lusty grotto
hold on, not without taking me out first
strong forum
It is, but not for raiding
inland mesa
But are we viable?
modern brook
if ur an ant maybe danie
daring marlin
viable
lime mantle
Here is why:
War is now fun to play. Fuck IP on the GCD.
Remove avatar and demoshout too.
strong forum
Viable? We're meta now
lusty grotto
a single ability made the class fun to play?
modern brook
viable
lusty grotto
i mean
strong forum
All of a sudden, cuz based retard Community perception
modern brook
demo deserves to be on GCD TBH
lusty grotto
i always find that argument bullshit
modern brook
that ability is so fucking good rn
strong forum
It is on gcd
lusty grotto
"IP OFF GCD DID IT"
modern brook
I press Demo and im like oh boy i did a big thing
strong forum
Ye...
hearty flume
armor/block scaling caused the meta shit
lusty grotto
rage gen didn't change though
inland mesa
I mean we also scaled with gear and benefited a lot from double azerite ring
hearty flume
warrior scaled extremely well and made it ridiculously strong as bdk and monk did not scale well
daring marlin
We had absurd demo shout uptime before
strong forum
You know what's the best though? Defending prot since early beta, only to then become meta after people started to notice...
lime mantle
As said it wasn’t fun.
That’s my issue.
I rate tanks on fun level.
VDH is very fun and second best tank until you tank anything hard and get splatted
modern brook
I think we benefited from not having to drop 30 ilvls ona stat hungry spec for DC more than the 2nd ring
daring marlin
Which arguably cause higher DR than the buffs we received
daring marlin
and it would have scaled even more
modern brook
just having DC be so available is a bigger deal than there being 2 rings
modern brook
VDH being described as fun is the biggest fucking joke ive ever heard
lusty grotto
if that's the case Prot pala and Bear are dogshit and super unfun
signal plover
Cuz it's an easy excuse to fall back on when you're misplaying a spec and feel bad about it
inland mesa
I mean bear is bad right
lime mantle
I am weird.
Bear and prot papa are dogshit and super unfun.
lusty grotto
🤷
daring marlin
Prot pally would be fun
modern brook
its unforunate that you cant do anything besides get hit and that
daring marlin
and seraphim was 30 seconds again
strong forum
I leveld up vdh for funzies, tanked a +10 on 370...ohno wasn't too much fun, havoc however ( as disgusting as it is) is fun
modern brook
havoc is a busted spec
lime mantle
As said, my rating of tanks is my fun with them.
strong forum
Haven't tanked since on vdh, will see how it is now with 398
strong forum
Idk, will see
modern brook
u press the emotional equivlent of Devestate 6 time for 1 TC; then die
lusty grotto
the way you said it, it seemed that Ip being on gcd shifted the class from unfun to fun
🤷
strong forum
I wish they'd change demon spikes
AM is beyond trash
If they fix that, vdh is somewhat of a tank
lime mantle
I enjoy VDH tanking because:
- Mobility on par with warrior
- Hilarious AoE ape dps
- Sigils are super fun and filled with utility which I love
- Very edgy this is very good.
strong forum
Ye same
modern brook
You're describing Warriors with spikes
weary thorn
demon spikes and fiery brand need reworked
modern brook
Sigils are actually a great idea; super behind that
lime mantle
Basically. It’s that your ability numbers are shit and your talents NEED TO BE BASELINE REEEEEE
modern brook
everything else about vdh is a shit show
lime mantle
Make felcharge baseline teeee
strong forum
I might level prot pally as next, my bdk can rot in the dust
lime mantle
VDH is like warrior and BDK had a child, but he was terminally retarded and droppped on the head from Halls of valor to Archerus multiple times.
inland mesa
I'm curious what the azerite neck traits will do
chilly brook
On the topic of DS being worth more than the buffs we got I think that’s entirely accurate
strong forum
Ye 70%+ uptime on 20% Dr is too good
lusty grotto
or else they would have to put every single cd back off gcd
lime mantle
They should.
chilly brook
They should
modern brook
everytime u link that i just think dang couldnt even get 98% DW
lusty grotto
its fine that offensive cds are on gcd
chilly brook
You’re entitled to your wrong opinion 😉
strong forum
Imagine not having 99% uptime on DW loooooOOOOO
strong forum
die
modern brook
My opener is Charge devestate Avatar tc
chilly brook
Busy extending claps
modern brook
100% DW bby
strong forum
My opener is typically charge demo Avatar TC ss IP TC Deva tbh
modern brook
@lime mantle if thats a real q: your opener doesnt have revenge or Devestate in it until a SS doesnt reset
so
chilly brook
I mean keep in mind you actually had to hit IP on the GCD
modern brook
the missing % is most likely at the start
chilly brook
Probably
modern brook
where you're dealing real damage
chilly brook
It’s from Zek’voz
modern brook
THATS WHY U DEVESTATE ON OPENER
lusty grotto
negatory
modern brook
^ thats a meme, lurkers, plz do not press devestate unless u cant press other things
strong forum
Ah ye this channel has lurkers aswell eh?
modern brook
That back pedal was so i dont get banned :^)
chilly brook
Haste is great
chilly brook
@lusty grotto yo for holy pally is it me or does it feel like if you don’t crit you don’t do jack?
strong forum
Maybe another IP
chilly brook
For m+ yea
chilly brook
Not so much for raid
lusty grotto
you stack crit
chilly brook
For raid it’s crit haste iirc
lusty grotto
mastery is a far second
sick sentinel
modern brook
shrine's difficulty is directly proportionate to how well your DPS understands the kick priority
sick sentinel
rogue dced before third boss
modern brook
Wash away? more like walk away haha
chilly brook
I swear it also doesn’t help as hpal when everyone starts being stupid and taking a lot of avoidable damage
strong forum
Water blast more like nuke?
modern brook
water blast, most like kickthat ass
lusty grotto
@chilly brook i mean just always remember to use rule of law+ judgment for more healing power... always always
strong forum
Beacon of virtue
lusty grotto
everyone taking dmg then rule of law + beacon of virtue + holy shock
maybe even some holy avenger fat heals
chilly brook
Rule of law?
lusty grotto
its a talent
chilly brook
That’s the range one right?
lusty grotto
but at best, you keep it up for more healing
chilly brook
Never use it
lusty grotto
you should be using it constantly
hpal is a combo healer
is the best description
it's always ability + heal
or combo of abilities + heal
rule of law being one of the most important
with judgment
chilly brook
It’s just a range extension on your heal/mastery
chilly brook
lusty grotto
griff
primal crypt
PALADIN
lusty grotto
ok here you go
chilly brook
Don’t make me join the Paladin discord
chilly brook
I’d say a 6.8k difference could be down to a lot of different things on a crit
lusty grotto
same here
sick sentinel
@daring marlin these deaths were getting hit by 5 waterblasts
we pulled everything with skystep in the room
and lusted it
chilly brook
Either way I’d value less CD on utility and defensives over 6k extra healing every minute
For m+
wary gyro
Basically the range increase on the mastery functions as an increase to mastery in general when healing point blank
heavy chasm
Throughput talent beats everything else on the tier
Especially regarding the avoidable monkey shenanigans
lusty grotto
whoops
i just noticed
i have knot of wisdom macroed to rule
no change point blank
opal peak
🤔
lusty grotto
but you'll always be at some distance
signal plover
All I see is 0 healing bro
lusty grotto
so as a force of habit im always using it
my hpal's gear is ass right now
anyway back to prot 😃
chilly brook
Never again
lusty grotto
kept double and triple pulling
chilly brook
Way too spiky
opal peak
eek
chilly brook
Nim I hate to do it to you
But
So funny story last night, 3:30am about to log out and go to sleep, my irl buddy talks me into a +13 Temple
lime mantle
- What did the first one do? More fire damage innit?
- W H Y
- Should be baseline
- See above
- See above
- Bomb should be baseline or something for fucks sake there is only 1 (shittier ds) spender
- I like last resort
@chilly brook
chilly brook
Let’s just say tanking a +13 a few days after coming back wasn’t a good idea
strong forum
Imagine healing a non spirit bomb vdh... Ohno
And feed the demon
Ohnononono
And felblade aaah It keeps getting worse
chilly brook
@lime mantle first is a immolation aura movement buff and small damage buff, not worth over the infernal strike stuff. Feast is just inferior to getting more souls period. Flame crash should always be taken. Feed the demon is not exactly a good idea for m+. Fel Devastation is trash it looks cool but it’s trash
chilly brook
I’d argue that Last Resort is no longer worth for m+
lime mantle
You are not explaining to me WHY
chilly brook
After the change
lime mantle
What change?
chilly brook
When you die it doesn’t reset the CD anymore
lime mantle
Also p. Sure that was the icy veins quick guide for quite a bit
Lemme check
Oh WHEW
strong forum
Bruh thats pre sprit bomb build
chilly brook
Icy veins does a good job at telling you why
primal crypt
lime mantle
ever not choosing to jump more so you can run away from the scawy mobs
chilly brook
I don’t feel like typing out about vdh talents
primal crypt
primal crypt
lime mantle
VDH is the bully target at all times
chilly brook
Who even bothers playing another tank besides prot 😉
lime mantle
~~jokes aside it’s funny how Vdh problems will probably never get addressed and everyone will forget him~<
chilly brook
Next xpac
primal crypt
But something will be tweaked
lime mantle
Yeah like in legion 😂
primal crypt
But definitely not top
chilly brook
Just never good for raid really
lime mantle
VDH has the same problems now that it did then namely that they blow up to a stiff breeze
primal crypt
Dh in general is a dungeon class
chilly brook
Prot is a dungeon class :kappahd
opal peak
🎬
lusty grotto
Poggers
exotic spoke
Kappa
chilly brook
Pepega
exotic spoke
Lol
chilly brook
Stepped outside with wet hair this morning, bad idea
exotic spoke
Seems like a poor life decision
chilly brook
26 degrees out with wind
exotic spoke
Almost as bad as playing horde
chilly brook
Legit started to ice over
chilly brook
Horde>alliance
daring marlin
good meme
chilly brook
We get troll Paladins boi
chilly brook
I mean who doesn’t wanna be a zandalari troll
lime mantle
Yeah
exotic spoke
I’m sorry - I can’t hear you over my high pitched screams while I cast IP
inland mesa
triple BoM is ridiculous
lime mantle
But you also have shitvannas arsewind
chilly brook
Sylvanas is bae
exotic spoke
And we have a dreadlord /s
chilly brook
I’d rather have Sylvanas than daddy issues Jaina
inland mesa
least we got to punch jaina in the face
lime mantle
At least we don’t have to hang around with The worst written character and her lackey Nathanos the self inserted.
Sylvy alone is why I left the horde in legion.
wary gyro
Yeah but you punch her as horde
lime mantle
(Also the fact I played horde only since tbc so I have it all very seen)
exotic spoke
I have no issue with sylvanas’ character
inland mesa
we need our lord and savior Thrall back
exotic spoke
She’s very much an “ends justify the means” character
chilly brook
Much less well done in BFA
exotic spoke
Agree
wary gyro
I'm waiting to see where they go with the whole saurfang thing
opal peak
they actually all die
chilly brook
No where significant
opal peak
and the game ends
lime mantle
Her isssue is calling wow writers cling to retarded red v blue
inland mesa
Game of Thrones style?
opal peak
maybe? heck GoT
exotic spoke
Lol
inland mesa
all but anduin die, and we get to learn how to cry beautifully
sick sentinel
Truly the only thing worth learning
wary gyro
Every time theres an expansion that involves significant faction cooperation they have to find a reason to ruin it for the next one
chilly brook
Really her issue is she has a dude who basically wrote his own character into the character of nethanos 😜
exotic spoke
In what way Danie? They are forcing her to a morally grey area and encroaching on being evil
Personally I hate Anduin. Still feels like a whiny kid
sick sentinel
But can u deny he cries beautifully tho?
lime mantle
Her issues start at cata
exotic spoke
No, because I turn away in disgust
chilly brook
@exotic spoke I wouldn’t really say she’s morally grey lmao
wary gyro
As do most of the horde writing issues
chilly brook
They’ve failed pretty hard at making her that
exotic spoke
Sorry griff, In legion she felt like she was. And is slowly going full evil
lime mantle
From doing a 360• and backflip away from the actual character.
And of course a very healthy dose of “we have to keep rvb going so let’s be retarded on purpose lol!”
daring marlin
@exotic spoke where have you been?
chilly brook
It was full gas lmao
daring marlin
She has been pure evil since vanilla