it's one of the best ways to do that boss
#protection
outer dew
modern brook
yeah nullifying half the fight seems good lol
modern brook
I wouldnt argue it but dont go out of your way
I just know thats our current progression spot
outer dew
it's like no time
i have a bear
i can just stealth trash and pull boss
ez life
i'll probably get spit on though
so it's gonna look wack
modern brook
❤
outer dew
@modern brook @sick sentinel
brisk ferry
Oh god don't use Mr robot.
modern brook
oh fuck me man
modern brook
I thought u were responding to bwomsamdi
I'm like
u can just skip the phase then lol
modern brook
H rhasta bvuz im a monkey
modern brook
Generally a Brewmaster
outer dew
it's one of the fights
where you can run ankh totem
since it doesn't take a bres
so you can have one person solo tank bwon
and just CDs -> Ankh -> Externals
modern brook
can pally do that with their CD?
steady fiber
btw guys what's better to pick for engi helm the auto self caut or absorbo o tron
modern brook
If you have reliable means to remove bleeds already (namely being a [DI] Dwarf) absorbotron; else Self Cauterize is really strong when it purges a bleed and slightly behind when thats not relevant
oblique garnet
@modern brook to bait the green shit in the middle on freeholds first boss it targets the person who is closest to the bird when its doing the charge
modern brook
huh thats good to know
lusty grotto
wait
modern brook
You cant cheese that by stacking everyone 'cept the healer1 rang e cause of azerite shot right?
lusty grotto
did you guys know
ranged can stand outside his ring and never get charged
just mentioning in case someone doesn't know
now that we're on topic of that boss
modern brook
on the topic of 1st bosses; has anyone confirmed that just run through him on horde side Seige is a good enough solution to noose?
sick sentinel
Wait run through or at him?
modern brook
Im p sure every range spec has ameans of just zipping out of it
Like if u get the noose on you
Just run straight through boss
lusty grotto
i still think its a bad idea
modern brook
to stop the DoT and force tempest
lusty grotto
but ill have my brother try it tomorrow
molten rivet
when you refelct in Temple, the 1st boss - cyclone strike, why do you die now? it wasnt initial hit on me
modern brook
I mean
molten rivet
i did the 10% damage on the boss
modern brook
the idea is to not get hit by the tempest
sick sentinel
If ur standing right next to the boss he shoots several clones out
molten rivet
so you wanna stand at the sides and not in the middle when you reflect?
sick sentinel
Honestly I would just not try it
U gain little for something that is still dangerous
molten rivet
little? 10% damage per hit you call little 😄 you can basicly skip 1 phase and 1-2 mins buy doing it
sick sentinel
And @modern brook keep in mind that tempest has a short cast time and not everyone has good reaction time
modern brook
YEah but its not a reaction thing u just spam mobility as u cross
I think only preists are sketchy
everyone else blinks or jumps right out
sick sentinel
No everyone is sketch
modern brook
im probably forgetting ar anged
sick sentinel
It's very reaction based
modern brook
Hammering a movement key while silenced is reaction based?
sick sentinel
Simple answer yes
digital frigate
Hello
modern brook
👋
modern brook
I'm just confused on how you're supposed to handle the noose without doing that when your healer is targeted by it
like even if the timing was that hard, which i disagree with, the out come is equal to or strictly better than just timing it out as normal
assuming your melee isnt retarded
sick sentinel
Oh no if ur healer gets noose, they shouldn't run it to the boss
They should prep themselves
sick sentinel
Lol
lusty grotto
that's 100% gonna happen
sick sentinel
The fight it self doesn't produce enough damage to warrant the healer to break noose
The only thing to keep in mind is the melee add when he cast his line stun
ionic fern
How many Cyclone strike does he do in one go? o.o
modern brook
this is a log of a successful cyclone strike reflect
lusty grotto
he does 5
sick sentinel
I thought it was 7
ionic fern
I reflected 5..but still he did more? 😂
modern brook
U probably reflected 2 of the tornados
lusty grotto
he does 2 strikes every couple of second
modern brook
and the 3rd hit on a mistime
modern brook
so u didnt reflect that
lusty grotto
period
there's no way he could have SR up
he always does
2
before he gains lightning shield
both have 5x cyclones each
all you need to know
is that its not possible to get the 2nd cast
modern brook
the log he showed is within .05s of eachother
lusty grotto
because there's just simply no way that your SR will refresh fast enough
modern brook
Sidebar: @ionic fern stop letting people mark you as anything besides star
Because you are a star and the world needs to know
lusty grotto
yeah i dont know about that log
ionic fern
😂
lusty grotto
super sketchy log
molten rivet
how do i see how to reflect cyclone strike in a log ?
im just confused, i guess its something with positioning ?
lusty grotto
what does logging have to do with positioning?
modern brook
the log i linked is just reflecting all 3 of them simultaneously twice
molten rivet
but how can i then reflect the spells, do damage to the boss and still die ?
modern brook
molten rivet
i can see the HP jump down 10%
modern brook
U probably only got 2; got hit by the 3rd
lusty grotto
that's dmg taken
molten rivet
so i wasnt standing close enough on top of boss?
lusty grotto
this is his log?
modern brook
no
lusty grotto
i mean
modern brook
thats a log of an mdi team
lusty grotto
yeah
but how can we even check what hes saying
we dont have logs
just drawing at straws
molten rivet
thats why im asking if their is some "trick" im missing
i just knew you could reflect the spell
modern brook
@primal crypt plz explain canting
lusty grotto
there's no trick
molten rivet
but compared to what your saying it must be my positioning
modern brook
Im not sure if its to get all 3 or to avoid the 3rd
lusty grotto
and your SR fell cause you got nuked
molten rivet
a cast through?
lusty grotto
but without logs
molten rivet
jolt dosnt 1 shot
lusty grotto
we cant really tell
molten rivet
and i did reflect
lusty grotto
ok so why say jolt doesnt 1 shot, i wasn't saying jold 1 shotted you
link a log
we can't help
without a log
there's no trick
don't let cyclone strike target YOU, don't let jolt hit you or you will lose SR
thats it
saying "i saw the HP drop down" doesn't help at all
i could just as easily say, "i just did a 20M shield slam"
and then ask "what conditions are favorable for that?"
and people would be confused as hell
modern brook
20m ss would applicable in all ST situations :^)
lusty grotto
sorry what i meant was
lusty grotto
"what conditions need to be met in order to replicate the dmg?"
anyway give us a log and we'll figure it out
signal plover
Doesn't details track reflects now?
molten rivet
i dont log and dont know how to log so cant really
exotic spoke
I don’t think so pawrevere.
signal plover
I know he was working on it
exotic spoke
I reflected some of the blood bolts from UR first boss and did 265k. My dps didn’t reflect that lol
signal plover
The way wow tracks it is super weird tho
exotic spoke
That was Monday though
modern brook
i reflect the void bolts on SotS 3rd boss consistently
exotic spoke
^^ I just see it pop up
modern brook
its frinedly fire 🤷
lusty grotto
therefore its not able to be logged
modern brook
same reaon your damage on the adds on yazma isnt tracked
exotic spoke
It’s nice seeing the big numbers pop up though
molten rivet
you cant reflect on yazma ?
lusty grotto
what
modern brook
u can if everyone else is dead
supple path
Man, spell reflect showing up in damage meters will totally get us nerfed.
modern brook
Wracking pain i believe is reflectable
supple path
The dps won't stand for how much we beat them on some bosses.
lusty grotto
yeah censuras for sure
lusty grotto
he just said that...
exotic spoke
I mean. We aren’t doing the damage. #NerfBosses
modern brook
U didnt ask if it was practical 🤷
lusty grotto
the boss is hitting itself :p
digital frigate
Hi. I was reading through the pinned document and it says I should favor brace for impact over B4B. I was told by someone in my guild that I'm squishy and I know my rotation isn't optomized; I'm still learning to play the class, but I went for B4B. Should I be switching my traits back to Brace for Impact? I have 3 stacks of that with my armor set up and 1 Defeaning Crash.
exotic spoke
Do you have logs?
modern brook
B4B?
lusty grotto
if you're squishy, its probably because you are doing something wrong, not your traits
also yes, i have no idea whats B4B
modern brook
Yeah an armory link or a log would be useful
exotic spoke
^^
digital frigate
Where can I find a log to provide you?
modern brook
That sentence means you probably dont have any
Alternative answer: "the woods :^)"
whats your char name/server?
lusty grotto
type combatlog in wow, run any content where your friends are saying you're squishy
exotic spoke
Probably. What’s your character name / server or armory link
digital frigate
Server: Zul'jin / Character: Grimtunk
exotic spoke
What content were you doing when they said that?
digital frigate
This occurred during Heroic Grong and as well during Jadefire Masters.
supple path
You're spell reflecting the grip on Grong, right?
modern brook
THats the King rhastakhan log you ran last night
digital frigate
At present times I know I'm not using as many Thunder Claps / Shield Slams and Demorilizing Shouts. I wasn't told to until after we cleared for Grong, no.
supple path
because honestly we're the least squishy tanks in the game on that fight
digital frigate
Yes, I'm trying to find where I can improve which there is a lot.
Timing et cetera.
But I was told to join this discord and seek critical advice.
exotic spoke
Ask if your guild logs the content btw. If not, do what nim suggested the next time you do
lusty grotto
@supple path grong does not grip on normal
supple path
yeah but he said heroic
exotic spoke
Heroic though
digital frigate
I have fought him heroic as well. I know they log fights.
modern brook
Lets be real team
supple path
Without looking at logs, I can tell you what I'll say after them: Prioritize shield slam > tclap > freevenges > devastate (tclap priority if avatar or demo shout is active), spell reflect during third swing of combo + IP, try to always have shield block or last stand active when he's swinging at you.
modern brook
If hes being told hes squishy
its because of a rotational thing
not cause hes not memeing the one fight i know too well
digital frigate
Yes, rotational thing. I agree.
exotic spoke
They may be private - I can’t find it
digital frigate
@supple path Thank you.
modern brook
lusty grotto
checking particular fights one sec
digital frigate
Thank you.
modern brook
im looking through jade fire rn
exotic spoke
Oh, fair. Thanks. Time to get them on my desktop at work lol
lusty grotto
your block is 40% in that fight
digital frigate
Yes. Is this downtime for Shield Block?
digital frigate
OK. Can you explain this to me?
lusty grotto
it means when you got hit, you didn't have SB (or Last Stand) up
digital frigate
I see.
digital frigate
When SB falls off should I be using Last Stand?
lusty grotto
yes
digital frigate
OK.
lusty grotto
read your talent called Bolster
supple path
And be sure to be letting SB recharge whenever the other tank is tanking
lusty grotto
digital frigate
Yes, so SB falls off -- use LS if tanking, let it recharge when other tank is holding boss.
lusty grotto
yes
digital frigate
Is there a dummy that I can practice this on? I only started again in BFA.
supple path
Also: If you don't have an addon to track uptime on shield block/IP, get one. There are some solid WAs for it
terse scroll
The dummy's name is Grong. XD
supple path
You want it to be OBVIOUS to you if shield block is down
digital frigate
OK. There was a link in the pinned messages that had some WA's.
lusty grotto
your demo shout up time is low
digital frigate
Would I find it there?
digital frigate
@lusty grotto OK. I heard that I should use Demo on CD and time it with Avatar.
Is this correct?
lusty grotto
its 20% less dmg from all sources
supple path
Don't delay demo for avatar.
lusty grotto
do not delay it
exotic spoke
Hey holy shit, whomever said it earlier about damage on the off target counting again... it’s nice to see my parse improve by so much lol
digital frigate
OK
supple path
Not worth it after the DC nerf
The only thing you ever really delay demo for is a single cast of tclap during avatar
Or if there's a fight mechanic you know you need it up for
digital frigate
OK. This is the impression I had.
supple path
Yeah the guides are solid on azerite.
digital frigate
Yes, I was reading this before but was told to change to Bloodsport and/or Avatar trait if I got it.
supple path
BoM is your #1 trait for M+, but it's not super great on raids
lusty grotto
whoever told you to change to bloodsport is bad advice
bloodsport is good but
its not as good as BFI, especially not for raids
also
digital frigate
OK.
lusty grotto
you are devastating WAY TOO MUCH
digital frigate
OK.
lusty grotto
more Shield Slams and Thunderclaps
modern brook
no avatar on the opener?
digital frigate
I will practice it.
lusty grotto
np 9mm
digital frigate
I honestly get performance anxiety.
exotic spoke
Avatar as you’re charging in (assuming you charge
modern brook
^ always charge avatar in
exotic spoke
They make a pill for that 😉
lusty grotto
intervene
modern brook
Gives u the rage u need for mitigation
primal crypt
Pre Pot on 2, Avatar on 1
digital frigate
The guild I joined in put me into heroic and I have not had a chance to tank any of the heroic fights.
primal crypt
Charge
digital frigate
Let alone on normal up until then.
modern brook
Charge +avatar->Clap-> Demo->clap->priority
digital frigate
So for me it was really stressful.
lusty grotto
INTERVENE
primal crypt
Charge and Charge again
exotic spoke
God damnit nim. Youre the best kind of correct... the technically correct
primal crypt
Charge some more
exotic spoke
It’ll always be charge in my heart!
lusty grotto
ok bull and yamo, i'm taking your badges
lusty grotto
haha
exotic spoke
You gore?
exotic spoke
When in combat obviously
digital frigate
OK. Thank you again.
ocean acorn
ay bullfango used the SR on cyclone strike from glick i was looking at the other day
ocean acorn
lol
modern brook
I t hought itd be relevent but it just made nim angry and confused
ocean acorn
how
ocean acorn
oh no lol
modern brook
unless ur asking how it'd be relevent
ocean acorn
its a good example tho i like yo use it
modern brook
in which case idk i just like looking at that log it makes me chuckle
ocean acorn
seeing the health barr get chunked feels good man
modern brook
WE missed one phasing adderis by like 200k
because my DPS chimped out during the lighning shield swap animation
glad venture
Can i reflect Cyclone strike in temple of Sethralis?
modern brook
Yes*
ocean acorn
YES but only if is cast on another party member
if it is cast on you, you will take damage
glad venture
Cheers
ocean acorn
mhm
oblique garnet
Ayy about to break 2k
vestal moat
Is anyone here a goblin tank? I'm going to realm transfer soon. I'm a dwarf now and I guess I'm used to a small character. Just worried I'll be too small.
narrow abyss
Anyone got link to an example of cyclone strike SR
oblique garnet
trellsky linked a video earlier from temple
so im assuming it has the spell reflect
hearty pollen
So I just abandoned ship and went prot to be able to m+ for real
How do you guys cope with skittish and trigger heavy people?
narrow nest
Hi ppl! Opulence Trinket gs400 vs mchimbas ritual bandages gs400 with socket - which one would u go with?
sick sentinel
opulence trinket is one of the best trinkets in the game for us
narrow nest
I know - but maybe the bandages are better with socket?
sick sentinel
bandages are mediocre
oblique garnet
nope
sick sentinel
no
restive pivot
Does trellsky frequent here at all?
restive pivot
Can i not use frequent in active voice?
sick sentinel
@paper holly yeah its great for m+
paper holly
Well noted 😃
undone sun
almost mentioned in #268491842637660160 
patent flower
Favorite race go
indigo panther
10 ilvl or a socket on trinket, which is better?
patent flower
@indigo panther What trinket
indigo panther
Howler
patent flower
Vs what
indigo panther
howler
patent flower
10 Ilvl
edgy linden
Cant seem to get anyone to review my logs can I post them here? Just started warrior and wanted to see how I can improve
fast warren
Is wowanalyzer yet updated for prot warrs?
edgy linden
no
fast warren
😦
stray wedge
are you having any specific problems, or just looking for general advice? @edgy linden
sand egret
@edgy linden you may wanna call out a specific fight or something. I found the log you posted in log-review and off the bad you cast Devastate a lot
stray wedge
I think log reviews are useful if you're having trouble on a specific encounter, or something like that; but if you're looking for general improvement tips then I think you might be more usefully directed to a guide, and thinking about whether you're following that guide (and if you're playing differently to it, whether that is deliberate, and why)
lusty grotto
Yay gz @primal crypt
lusty grotto
🤢
oblique garnet
The mdi ruleset tho
primal crypt
Team isn't on
oblique garnet
So much text
primal crypt
still not the weekend
lusty grotto
lies
oblique garnet
We did 19 temple
lusty grotto
it became the weekend 2 hours ago
lusty grotto
yikes
primal crypt
oh yikes
oblique garnet
And then 17 we hard inted
inland mesa
Where do you have to stand to reflect strikes, sometimes I feel like only one hits and then other times they all hit and reflect and then others they hit in increments and I die
primal sable
was about to ask the same thing
edgy linden
Ok thanks guys
sick sentinel
To your guys' discussion on cyclone, JdotB is literally sitting on the boss right now attempting to figure out what triggers more cyclone strikes
Sometimes it's 4, sometimes it's 5
It looks like Nerf is just going to back up and reflect there since a little ranged makes it so you reflect everything and not get hit
primal sable
how little is this range
sick sentinel
He was a good 10 yards out but experimented at around 6 by eyesight
so just take a few steps back
JB's worried about it though
Seems inconsistent
primal sable
but if you move away from the boss wont you miss some reflects?
sick sentinel
Yes but it lessens the risk of it killing you
He was hitting him with 2-3
instead of all 5
primal sable
its double damage tho
if there's a sweet spot you can stand it's definitely worth it
sick sentinel
JB's just worried if that came down to a bres in an mdi scenario
they're resetting we'll see what happens
oblique garnet
Wait it doesnt update your score if you do the same key but on a lower difficulty with the same group?
fickle halo
/wave
sick sentinel
Confirmed he stood right in front of him and reflected all 5 on a 21
410 rezan or 400+s+leech rezans
It may have been a cast off other mob as you guys were saying earlier
that cucked him on the 22
inland mesa
How in front like in the model or one model away? If cyclone is on you, you cant reflect it?
sick sentinel
maybe one model away but it was super close
is there a guide for mythic + that helps tanks immensely? like im watching NerfTankTV and he does everything so well
it was on JB (healer) and Nerf just moved in front and reflected
raven kernel
Prot in MDI 
oblique garnet
Nah im bear
primal crypt
The reflect is inconsistent
One time you can reflect 5
Other time a frame is off and one gets through
And kills you
Good luck getting a consistent 5
oblique garnet
Okay so apparently timing a 17 kings rest after you have depleted an 18 kr with the same group doesnt count on the leaderboards
merry cave
Least you can time it -_- I fucking loathe kr
Our healer struggles with the first boss debuff real hard for some reason
summer chasm
because its does a ton of damage
sick sentinel
It does approximately a fuckton
oblique garnet
Idk we had resto shammy who wasnt even struggling with it
sick sentinel
It does 110k per tick in a +15 tyrr
oblique garnet
Huh
sick sentinel
In the 16 I did it was pretty fine tbh
oblique garnet
@sick sentinel you done ml this week?
restive pivot
fellows
got 2 same weapon - 405 /w socket and 410 no socket
should go with the socket right?
9 str+18 stamina+30 wdamage vs 40 haste
sick sentinel
for weapon go ilvl
sick sentinel
i want to tank my +5 UR but im scared too
umbral forge
Why are you scared, man?
frosty vigil
better to use a 375 agi mace or 345 strength?
naive panther
Bull rush is better than anything Maghar has imo.
frosty vigil
mag'har mogs are way better though
ivory light
how does plate look on highmountain tho
raven kernel
Aesthetics on horde? 
steady hawk
about half of them look good, we would have to see your exact items to see if you have any better traits to pick
finite gull
Now if only I could consistantly keep uptime on callous. 😦
I feel like i can never keep it at 3 cuz i end up using alot of rage on IP
steady hawk
@finite gull those are some sexy traits
finite gull
Yeah I was incredibly lucky for prot. I main fury but im the resident keystone tank for our guild
Hopefully getting the Opulence trinket. Currently using a 400 rezans and some pvp trinket that procs strength
steady hawk
i got a 410 rezans but only a 390 diamond, i think im actually using grong lol
finite gull
Yeah i havnt gotten one yet. My alt got a heroic socketed one when it was dungeon event though 😦
steady hawk
my prot set is like fury, one of every trait lol
what tool are you guys using to display that box of traits?
inland mesa
anyone have good PoV for KR 15-17 key this week without a rogue? wanna finish off my 15 achieve and every group i've gone with has failed horribly and pulled different stuff
steady hawk
invis potions not working?
]
inland mesa
I'm not sure how that helps what groups to pull together where...but sure, and you also approach it differently with a rogue as you get a shroud and invis pot
finite gull
@steady hawk Its just from using the raider io page 😛
steady hawk
i guess im a noob but i find no way to link just the azerite traits, are you cropping a screenshot?
finite gull
Yeah I just used Snipping Tool on it 😛
hidden ether
is mech's trinket worth rerolling for if I have rezans and diamond currently
cursive dune
hello guys and gals. I've been a BRM for so long and looking for a change on tanking. I'm currently going between paly and warr . If any of you played pala and warrior could you give me some insights or pros/cons type a thing?
hushed minnow
Warrior is more durable and does big boy damage without sacrificing defense
Paladin is the opposite but has way more utility
rapid tide
Paladin brings more overal utility.
In the way of BoP, Divine Shield, Lay on Hands etc.
Warrior has short cd cooldowns that straight up feel stronger.
Also Warrior Playstyle is way more proactive, you gotta have your defenses up before the hit comes in.
Paladin will be more reactive although still a good mix in healing back up after taking damage or mitigating it with their defensives.
Against physical damage you will feel utterly op as a warrior, magical damage is annoying.
Pala bounces a bit more health wise but still feels good vs physical. Magical is once again nasty but a tad better in my experience as you can block magical hits.
And then what sorb says: Prot Warrior does damage even in the most defensive setup. The more offensive value you draw out of the spec the more defensive value you get in return via generated rage and reduced cooldowns.
Paladin can actively decide to go more offensive but will sacrifice defensive value in doing so and vice versa.
@cursive dune btw as your post is a bit in the past 😄
cursive dune
amazing answers
tankyou
I guess I'll stick to my warrior
and save my boost for something else
it's just i need to get used to using 2 active mitigation buttons
after brm 😄
undone sun
all tanks have two, warrior's are just entirely proactive
ember arrow
Not enough gcd pls fix
cursive dune
i dont count prufiying brew as active mitigation button
and ironskin is just reflex for me 😄
now i gotta decide what to press shield block or ignore pain
as far as i can understand
ignore pain is to fill the gaps between shield block
and deal with magic
right?
old zephyr
not really
shield block is you main tool
and IP is for either of the following case
- you have rage to spend
- that hit is gonna wreck you (regardless of wether SB is up or not)
if you are taking magic damage you are in case 2
if you are taking ONLY magic damage just don't use SB
strong forum
I try to have 100%uptime on IP, as long as it makes sense and you can afford it ofc
oblique nymph
Quick question folks; Is Shield Slam and Shield Block capped at certain seconds (6 for Shield slam, 12 for shield block?)? As it doesn't seem to matter how much Haste I get from enchants, trinkets etc it makes little difference?
old zephyr
as far as I know it doesn't cap
however, since GCD is reduced as well, you won't really feel a difference,
things just go faster
above 100% haste GCD is no longer reduced and you will really feal the difference
the same goes for thunderclap and revenge
vague estuary
thoughts on endless hunger vs IF? in m+
sick sentinel
@oblique garnet not yet
neon tangle
@oblique nymph Just to make sure since you seem to be aiming for it, remember not to drop ilvls for haste in most situations
sick sentinel
@steady hawk "those are some sexy traits" meanwhile, he is using Azerite veins, crystalline , moment of glory and strength is numbers
And you said that's @rough egret 's is meh when he us using double fucking IV and tradewinds
I would kill for a setup like that
neon tangle
today was fun, I actually started tanking some mid-level m+
the 15 was easier than I expected
sick sentinel
@oblique nymph it is not capped, actually it goes into decimals, it just goes down slower
GCD caps at 100% haste (0.75s) but attack speed and CDs go faster basically forever
@vague estuary IF is very strong in mplus and you are underestimating it
stoic pilot
In regards to seeing what I could do better on a fight via logs, is there any place (besides the log review channel) I could plug in to get some overall mistakes? From what I’ve seen Wowanalyzer isn’t updated for prot and that’s normally what I’ve used for the basic stuff. Or would the best bet be manual comparisons against others.
This is a hypothetical question since I don’t have any logs currently but was curious about since I’ve gotten the vast majority of my info from wowanalyzer on other classes and if I wanted something specific it was easy to compare manually versus doing everything manually.
neon tangle
@stoic pilot basic stuff id look for in logs is attacks blocked
You can do a negative filter for SB / last stand and get the # of attacks taken without one of those kk
Up**
Check for overlap too
But yeah prot wowanalyer is not ready unfortunately
stoic pilot
That is unfortunate but I appreciate the info. That’ll help since I’m still learning and comparing dk logs versus warrior logs at least initially seems a bit different lol
neon tangle
@sick sentinel yeah I’m working on it... slowly
undone sun
sal was working on it on and off since ABT but slowed down significantly in uldir
mental scarab
Mhm the blobs in KR if dispeld do they give bursting?
mental scarab
Whyyyyyyy and whoopoo thought that was a good ide😂
old zephyr
use yor raid CD at that point and it is fine
weary nacelle
what do you guys think about current situation with stats? Obviously lower haste gets down the gameplay, but more crit and vers feels like we are stronger and can sustain more.
im crafting some blacksmith pieces 415 and i wonder if i want to stick with vers/haste , crit/haste , or even anything else.
recently ive dropped a lot of haste and certainly gameplay is much slower, but i really felt stronger and solid front line for the group.
rapid tide
Just based on value they are all really equal. I prefer having a good chunk of Haste, Crit and Mastery and go a bit lower on vers simply because the first three just feel more impactful.
If you go crafting I'd honestly take the first craft that has Haste on it 🤷
weary nacelle
hehe its interesting i got two pieces.. one has 80 crit/190 haste, the other one has 140 haste/140vers
😄
this is where im stuck and wondering which one i want to go with 😄
rustic zodiac
Is bloodsport any good? Im not seeing it on Bloodmallet
rapid tide
I'd go with the 190 haste one.
Haste is slightly ahead at similar ilvl, is king for dps and also just feels good 😄
weary nacelle
agreed, it feels good.
rapid tide
Bloodsport is a decent trait when you get use out of it, so you are regularly using IP and the IP is actually being depleted.
Has some more value on magic than other traits as higher block/whatever won't help you there.
Definitely nothing to be sad about picking.
rustic zodiac
Thanks
neon tangle
Glick has used it quite a bit
For his crazy 20+ keys
Leech is fab when you’re doing 30k dps
rustic zodiac
Is there a site better for picking traits?
neon tangle
Icy veins is the place to go
Prot has some very strong defensive traits, and ones that do damage on blocks which also won’t show up on bloodmallet
rustic zodiac
Good info thanks
neon tangle
Also honestly warrior can turtle a bit with its traits, the more you can stay in Melee range the more you can hit shit with thunderclap
The faster your keys go
sick sentinel
@rustic zodiac read the icy veins guide
Also
You don't pick bloodsport for the fucking leech
It's an added bonus
It's just 1%
torn sapphire
Hey there. What abilities can you use while getting thrown? I thought you couldn't use anything
severe pond
You use spell reflect before he grab you
old zephyr
And ip if you can
stoic jay
Hey guys quick question, coming back to the game and looking to pick up tanking again. The icy-veins guide said that warrior is more unforgiving of mistakes or improper play compared to other tanks. How does it rank compared to BM monk or guardian druid ? Just looking to do some M+ 10's and NM/HC raids.
undone sun
definitely correct, unforgiving and monk is pretty much the easiest tank
old zephyr
Beeing 100% à proactive tank, if you make à mistakes you don't have much tools to recover, if you do everything right you are à monster
stoic jay
Hmm, seems im going with warrior then (way better transmog options). Wish me luck!
undone sun
you're required to have fun!
sick sentinel
also, if you have just rolled a warrior, remember to get the thunderclap glyph
oblique garnet
I dislike that
stoic jay
One thing btw, is it still possible to just get the artifact shield as mog and mog a different weapon?
oblique garnet
Kage ml is pretty free this week
oblique garnet
Yeah we did 18 ml and had around 8 minutes left on timer when we got to last boss
sick sentinel
ah ok
oblique garnet
If you do it that way you cant bring the last boss down early (when theres adds alive)
oblique garnet
Yeah you can play it rly safe
We scuffed the first try on it due to demowarlocks zoo just getting on the drill smash so we got the boss on top of the 2 adds
sick sentinel
LOL
oblique garnet
Lucky we had 2x 18s
oblique garnet
Whats the difference in strength and the proc value? @sick sentinel
sick sentinel
oblique garnet
The 400 one
sick sentinel
F
why not both 4Head
I just found out
that the boomkin I wave been playing with
and being in comms with
for the last 2 months
is 13
he sounds like 20
oblique garnet
#JustKazzakThings
sick sentinel
stormreaver*
oblique garnet
oh then he is probably finnish right?
sick sentinel
I think he's german or something
zealous ore
@sick sentinel Are you 19?
sick sentinel
yes
sick sentinel
higher ilvl wins in weapons
sacred anvil
You sure? Im sceptical about this
sacred anvil
I should say that im aiming only m+
kk
Another question: everything that scales with weapon dmg - is it always dps or the dmg range makes a difference?
pallid trench
How good is Steelskin Potion's? Like they seem borderline OP
restive pivot
But we like damage😏
autumn forum
Anyone struggling with threat on reaping mobs this week? Had no issues last week
willow scarab
Skitterish week, blow cds to keep aggro is the only answer I can really give you
sick sentinel
im not sure if skittish affects reaping adds but it seems they do
even if i open up with avatar and clap hard to get aggro off
oblique garnet
Idk i only really seem to struggle not getting aggro without avatar and if the adds are not grouped together
real thunder
I have a 425 JesHowler and a 400 Rezan's trinket sims higher for dps....the world makes no sense to me
sick sentinel
i got 425 jes i use it for m+
giving people around %3 versa is good
also using 400 rezan with socket
meager bolt
Skittish affects the tank not the mobs I believe so your threat generation is lower that's why it tough to get aggro with reaping I think
sick sentinel
imagine simming prot
and taking it seriously
@pallid trench steelskin is not that good
it gives 900 armor where str pots gives us 900 str worth of attack power ( therefore fatter IPs) and like 500 armor
it's literally just worse
prime kernel
yo guys, does any1 has a WA that shows the CD and charges of battle ress during M+ ? (from all classes) , smth similar to Exorsus option (icon) , but in WA
rough egret
What would you use ? currently im running with Block+Vial
sick sentinel
Block vial is the right choice
primal crypt
Or he could go mekka/vial and have big boy avatars constantly lelelelelelel
hearty dune
From looking at the guides, i understand its better to go booming voice instead of Devastator, but if i did want to go Devastator is it bad?
sand egret
you’d be hamstringing yourself, yeah
sand kettle
Devastator was the choice in Legion because of the rage gen right? and because it didnt compete with BV
steel mauve
Its bad because it no longer gives rage and in order for it to become better than bv you need to specifically use the shield slam procs from devestator which becomes difficult now that revenge and tclap also proc ss resets
If you use an ss reset from tclap or revenge then it doesnt count to using a devestator specific reset, which is the problem when it procs and immediately gets over written by revenge or tclap
hearty dune
hmm my thanks
steel mauve
Basically it got nerfed hard with the rage gen nerf, but it got really devalued adding revenge and tclap to be able to reset shield slam
sand kettle
I was thinking and I'm not sure what was more fun: T21 shield slam spam or current tclap spam
I'm kinda leaning towards tclap
astral crystal
aoe is a good feel
sick sentinel
@hearty dune you are gimping yourself full on
topaz geode
During avatar do you prioritize thunderclap over revenges? or shield slam?
sand kettle
tclap
topaz geode
Thunderclap is basically has no cd with enough haste like during hero.
sand kettle
tclap will always be every other GCD
after that you prioritize ss for single target/survivability
or you can just revenge for straight dps in aoe
sand kettle
During avater definitely
topaz geode
k something like ThunderClap --->Shield Slam/ Revenge ---> ThunderClap
during avatar
sand kettle
Your opener is Avatar>tclap>demo shout>tclap
then shield slam for single target
revenge on proc
sand kettle
devastator otherwise
you can spend rage on revenge if you dont need the survivability too
topaz geode
thanks 😄
sick sentinel
is the icy veins guide up to date? that opener looks different
sand kettle
Maybe im wrong
topaz geode
Its insane how much dmg tclap is doing though
sand kettle
it's ~50% of my damage in most situations
I always thought a tclap before dmo shout was a dps increase
@sick sentinel
Maybe someone better than me can solve this
sick sentinel
I'm no expert; I just rtead the guide the other day as trying out prot; usually I'm fury
topaz geode
for a nub like me... just spamming tclap is enough toh work for my content 😛
sick sentinel
my understanding was tc > ss three times during demo shout; to extend it; otherwise ss > tc as it gives more rage
with the deafening crash trait
sand kettle
in aoe situations for dps tclap is much better
sick sentinel
yes
stone cloud
this pug tanks talents
stone cloud
literally all those are incorrect lmao
sand kettle
Hey I like bounding stride
oblique garnet
stormbolt over others is much better
ebon hound
its more like, I dont need the other talents as much as stormbolt is just good everywhere
oblique garnet
^
ebon hound
I see how rumbling is good, but the groups I run tend to be loaded on aoe stuns anyway
stone cloud
i am my groups aoe stun
ebon hound
did a +12 with demolock, dh and a ret, reaping lasted exactly 3 seconds
steel mauve
I swap back and forth but i usually prefer stormbolt for another unterrupt/single stun
ornate magnet
415 alchemy trinket OR 400 Rezan. 2nd trinket is 415 diamond prism.
ornate magnet
Ty ty.
honest frigate
I've seen a few warriors use siphon for high m+ vs quick nav. but I can't find any info on this. Does anyone know the reasoning/efficacy
outer dew
@sand egret @undone sun gonna actually main swap to bear. I can gime a 18 td on bear but I tilt a 20 TD to 17 on warrior
And siphon?
That's a weapon enchant?
outer dew
Its probably for consistency in pulls, jus looked it up.
Siphon doesn't have a proc
Itll add a good chunk of healing on the way they pull
For most people, they won't be doing the things that you need to do for high keys
Like pulling reaping into boss
Or much larger pulls than the average player is use to
honest frigate
Makes sense was just curious
outer dew
Where the leech will actually give you the healing + you're not fishing for a proc
outer dew
If you pull the right size
Leech is fairly strong, but not something I'd reccomend
It shouldnt be something you're looking for
Only time you'll see the leech come into play would probably be reaping
And when you pull big so you can let your healer dps a bit
outer dew
Actually was so annoyed
crisp pecan
fossil spindle
I rate you 1/10 potatos
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel the guide is focused on survivability and survivability is based on rage generation. On 2 targets a thunderclap over a shield slam will do more damage but shield slam will generate more rage, therefore avatar will come back faster. Pick your poison: more damage upfront or more avatars overall
Personally I like using TClap every other GCD whatever the case
@honest frigate leech is very good for warriors but siphoning is 2.5% leech, so the warriors that use it are basically memeing.
The 600 haste proc plus the 50/100/150/200 haste ramp up to that proc should be better defensively and offensively and you should use quick nav in every scenario that isn't "I wanna pad the healing meters"
stone cloud
Leech becomes better in M+ tho depending on size of pulls
sick sentinel
It does
warm plinth
Bleh, go out of town for a week, come back, still with the leech conversation smh
stone cloud
With just siphoning pulls where your doing 100K DPS means your doing 2.5K HPS
sick sentinel
But 2% leech was 4% of my healing
In most runs
I would not give up'600 haste procs for that
You get more healing out of being able to cast last stand more often
stone cloud
It’s Niche for sure but on some dungeon reaping packs like beginning of shrine it most definitely can safe your life
sick sentinel
It will not
Thinking (assuming 100k dps) 2.5k hps will save your life
Is straight up delusional
supple path
Well there are definitely fringe scenarios where having the extra however much hp prevents a death...but how common are they?
sick sentinel
The 2.5% leech would be good at the beginning of the expansion because you would compare it with the 40 leech you got from items
Now you get 80-90
stone cloud
Siphon is 100
stone cloud
Yup
sick sentinel
Secondary stats havent all that much
stone cloud
Or my pally can have 16% avoidance
sick sentinel
600 haste is still a bunch of haste
stone cloud
Ie
sick sentinel
My boomkin has 19%
warm plinth
Leech isn't even designed to save your life. It's a very small amount of healing that increases with the number of targets you're hitting (and thus are hitting you). So the more effective you make Leech, the more risk you are of dying, since even with 1 target (the lowest effect of Leech), you're taking far more damage than you're healing. It'll never result in a net gain outside of an immunity (which we don't have), so it's never going to save your life. It'll just slow down your death.
stone cloud
I’m talking about the reaping dot ticks
sick sentinel
The reaping dot ticks just straight up kill you if not dispelled
The reaping mobs do like no damage
stone cloud
Slowing the death down is great for allowing healer time to dispell ect
warm plinth
But you have a healer in a dungeon, and if they aren't dispelling those, then having more leech is not going to fix the very serious problem you have already.
sick sentinel
If you are left alive after a tick
You are alive
Until the next tick
Leech does literally nothing there
hushed cobalt
When thr healer dispels you when you get your first few stacks of the dot means dead. 270k ticks aint no joke
sick sentinel
If you survive the tick
warm plinth
Frankly I think this is a prime example of a meme becoming misconstrued as something worthwhile.
sick sentinel
You are not going to take damage until the next one
I have survived a 63 stack tick and a 65 stack tick
hushed cobalt
Isn't the ticks every 2 seconds?
warm plinth
Right, and you definitely would not heal enough with Leech to survive the next tick, thus it's useless (as you said)
warm plinth
Yam 😭
hushed cobalt
Praise be leech
sick sentinel
You can meme all you want
But when somebody asks for a genuine advice because he has a genuine question
You need to give him a genuine answer
Or wait for somebody that is better than you to answer
primal crypt
Thought you guys were memeing each other
stone cloud
Again I’m not saying it’s better but possible to heal enough to survive next tick making it possible for the CD on a healers dispell to be done
wicked ginkgo
"Need"
primal crypt
lol
hushed cobalt
Healed an AD11 and WCM10 last night, both included prot warriors. 1 gemmed and chanted vers and had a lot of vers gear; the other ran never surrender(i should have bailed when i saw that)
primal crypt
Someone is trying to stack leech?
stone cloud
No
sick sentinel
Someone asked if siphoning is good or a meme
primal crypt
ohhh
stone cloud
Someone asked why ppl using siphoning
primal crypt
yeah, siphon is a meme
hollow thorn
Does anyone have the spell reflectable document? And does it include dungeons?
warm plinth
Trik, you said that at 100k DPS, you're healing 2.5k HPS from leech. Which means that you're healing 7.5k in 3 seconds. Any tick that leech would help you survive is a tick that wouldn't have killed you anyway.
sick sentinel
hushed cobalt
Can you put siphon on shields? 🤔
warm plinth
Nah, shields can't be enchanted.
sick sentinel
You can't enchant shields
hushed cobalt
There goes my dream
stone cloud
I mean I’ve been over killed on the dot by less then 7K
sick sentinel
And if you could you would be running quick versatile or probs
primal crypt
I'm guessing it's because people see the top players using siphon?
they're asking again?
brave mauve
With Blood Siphon trait, 2x Bloodsport, and 1 piece with Leech on it, Leech is anywhere from 10-15% of my self healing. Though I'm only doing low 10-12 keys, so I get to pull big. 🤷
stone cloud
All I’m saying is it’s not nothing.
warm plinth
It's not, but it's also nothing worth shooting for on purpose.
wicked ginkgo
My monk healer complains when we pull too big and he can't deal with the bursting 💁
primal crypt
healers need to be more liberal with CDs
sick sentinel
If you get one more last stand in the whole dungeon because of more haste
stone cloud
And ppl need to praise the ret pallys this week 😂
wicked ginkgo
Why the ret pallies?
primal crypt
The problem is people make assumptions
stone cloud
Word of Glory is amazing
sick sentinel
Difference being, the last stand will save you
wicked ginkgo
Oo
primal crypt
and then try and speak of things as being top tier
wicked ginkgo
Rally and darkness is sick
sick sentinel
Preventing 200k-600k
primal crypt
Rally you need to be careful
stone cloud
Don’t rally
primal crypt
you will kill your group
stone cloud
Dot is % hp based
primal crypt
either rally pre bursting
sick sentinel
You rally only on the last tick
wicked ginkgo
Yeah last tick
primal crypt
or this ^
wicked ginkgo
I'm only mostly a noob dont worry
potent anvil
I feel like leech is good to have, but not something to aim for. I have more of a dps-oriented mindset when it comes to tanking. And with higher haste means higher SB uptime. Proactive mitigation > reactive healing imo. Plus more thunderclaps
primal crypt
sick sentinel
Exactly
sick sentinel
If siphoning gave 300 leech instead of 100 it would be good
wicked ginkgo
Best defense is a good offense or something
potent anvil
I'll be interested to see how much time is saved throughout a run where you let the healer dps vs you just being tankier and pumping more damage.
wicked ginkgo
That would be a rough one to theorycraft
potent anvil
It'll get to the point where leech doesn't outdo the damage intake from larger pulls. At which point, it seems better to just mitigate as much and put out damage imo. Leech doesn't magically increase the number of mobs you'll be able to tank.
wicked ginkgo
What is your guys preferred healer to run with in m+?
primal crypt
per % dmg
potent anvil
Right, if its on a good piece of usable gear, then go for it.
sick sentinel
resto druid/mw monk
primal crypt
<--Holy pally
sick sentinel
I like druid a lot more tho
wicked ginkgo
I like druid and pally as well
stone cloud
Disc
primal crypt
Priest is prob my least favorite
stone cloud
Atleast the one I play with
Dunno what he does but I don’t have the ole clenched buttocks when he’s healing
primal crypt
I have yet to run into a decent priest in general
sick sentinel
I have had only negative experiences with shamans priests and holy paladins
and very few positive experiences with priests
stone cloud
I’d rather he be a rdruid but the disc works and it also prob helps I did grip duty on aggramar so I know how he’s knock works