"Ilvl is a bad system because the systems to get gear that are in place now have no bearing on skill or achievement. "
#protection
sand egret
chilly brook
Yes
oblique garnet
In wrat and cata ilvl meant that you would actually gear through the content
chilly brook
“Oh you didn’t complete the key in time for your ten here’s a buff so you can ez complete it and still get your max reward from the chest on reset”
dense flame
Go back to a progression system where WF TF didn’t exist
oblique garnet
They could
dense flame
Nah
chilly brook
They could
oblique garnet
Then people would raid more
chilly brook
And I’d argue the game would be more successful for it
lusty grotto
what gives you the idea that they aren't raiding enough?
oblique garnet
As it is right now
sand egret
all i'm saying is that people who want to use ilvl as a metric, can't look at it as a representation of skill but rather need to use it's actual purpose, to display relative power of their character. If you look at it as a metric of skill, you're going to have issues with any variance (PvP gear had this issue in the past)
stark sage
they would have to rebalance a lot of the game if they removed TF
chilly brook
There’s nothing specific to work towards in game now
sand egret
there's a lot of shit
chilly brook
You’re just fishing for a higher ilvl piece
oblique garnet
Nim the amount of guilds dying because they cant scrape together raiders
lusty grotto
that's not it
sand egret
not to mention
dense flame
If they did this. It would have to be similar to how BC functioned
wary gyro
I work towards finishing progression that's enough of a goal for me
lusty grotto
recruitment can't understand the concept of gearing people up, or getting that one class that isn't meta
chilly brook
@sand egret but even as a relative indicator of power level it means nothing because you don’t have to have skill to get the ilvl at all
dense flame
Where old content gear can still be relevant
sand egret
mythic raiding will give you a SIGNIFICANTLY better chance at getting a 420 than doing a +10, for instance. That's a large incentive, even if ilvl was your true end-goal (and it not being a means to do content)
oblique garnet
Whats the point of raiding when you can do m+ with 5 equally skilled players get the same if not better gear instead of getting 20 people together
dense flame
That
sand egret
if you only care about pushing a little number
then sure TF sucks
but it's a means to an end
dense flame
Is more RNG
oblique garnet
Yeah sure its more rng
warm plinth
I think it's hilarious that I'm seeing some of these arguments about gear, and yet I get people telling me I'm crazy when I say that people play the game for loot.
lusty grotto
there are rewards in raids that you can't get through m+....
oblique garnet
But 20 not potato players are harder to get than 5 none pitato
dense flame
Trinkets/azerite
strong hill
I know several that play it just for the loot
dense flame
I totally disagree late
sand egret
and one gives a way higher chance of better rewards
dense flame
Completely disagree
chilly brook
@sand egret you have a better chance at getting a higher ilvl from doing keys above a 10
oblique garnet
Lets put it this way
sand egret
which is still nothing compared to a mythic raid
oblique garnet
You cant efficiently clear out mythic content with incomptetent players
dense flame
M+ you have to have 5 people not be retarded and work together.
oblique garnet
However you can do m+ with just 5
chilly brook
Look
chilly brook
Part of the problem is that modern WoW has huge diminishing returns
oblique garnet
You can finish up an +10 with pugs and still have the chance for tf
sick sentinel
Timing +16s gives you 5-6 pieces of gear
sand egret
tf/wf ruins the old-school sense of elitism
sick sentinel
+10s give you 3
chilly brook
You get the bulk of your gearing done in the first week of being 120
sick sentinel
More gear=more chances
sand egret
so people who needed to be validated feel miffed
dense flame
I guess kaege has a good point. If we are talking similar skilled players
chilly brook
And the more you play the less chance of you actually getting anything meaningful
Old WoW was much more spread out
dense flame
Mythic raider and m+ players doing 15-17 farm.
chilly brook
With incremental bumps
sand egret
so the game is less of a time sink?
chilly brook
No
dense flame
You can probably grind out higher ilvl in M+
chilly brook
The game rewards you less the more time you play
narrow abyss
This entire conversation becaus eslmeone said warriors were squishy
chilly brook
It hasn’t been like this since forever
chilly brook
Even in Wrath when I started playing you didn’t jump 100 ilvls going from 70-80
narrow abyss
Is it? It’s like every other reddit post lol
dense flame
Wrath started this issue.
chilly brook
And then another 70 or so when gearing
sand egret
as you play and improve, the amount of potential rewards go down
that's how its always been
oblique garnet
I really should find me a guild that could actually get CE
But none of those actually needs a tank
chilly brook
@oblique garnet good luck
dense flame
narrow abyss
My only gripe is how every tier is super fresh slate. I get why they do it. But I do miss some vertical progression
olive merlin
Lol warrior squishy.. my bdk says hi
dense flame
Well, tbh. I did enjoy the old style. Grind through Kara > gruul > mag then go SSC/TK.. etc
chilly brook
At least I’d have more than one weeks worth of content lmao
stark sage
@chilly brook well ilvl jumps between difficulties or even tiers is just numbers. its mostly irrelevant. they need to be wide enough to illicit a feeling of progression whilst also not being so wide that new comers dont feel outed for being behind
dense flame
Most of the player base now couldn’t handle that 4-5 day raiding environment
Jobs
Life
Other shit
stark sage
15 ilvl jumps is a pretty nice sweet spot imo
sand egret
the reason is that they don't want people feeling forced through "old content" to have to catch up to what's current
chilly brook
@stark sage I know the reason why. But it creates the ilvl bloat problem that they complain so much about having to fix every other expansion
sick sentinel
3 day raiding is considered serious rn
magic hazel
Dont even know how I survived 4-5 days of raiding for years in the past
sick sentinel
Most people can only 2 day raid
chilly brook
If it’s still relevant it’s not “old content” 🤔
sand egret
bloat is a problem for people who care too much about what that number means
narrow abyss
Mom - aq20 Tuesday - Mc - Wednesday - bel Thursday Friday - aq40 - Saturday zg - Sunday onyxia
sand egret
"old content" by definition is anything that isn't the latest content
narrow abyss
Never doing that again either
dense flame
If that is the opinion Groff
supple path
Problem with forging always comes when you can spam the lower content to maximize odds of higher rewards.
sand egret
^
supple path
It was a problem with those argunite turn-ins in antorus (where my friend and I had mythic-ilvl gear while literally not raiding), and it's a problemw ith spamming +10s now.
dense flame
Then you basically penalize any player from reaching the top end of progression system
chilly brook
I don’t see why they didn’t just do what they did with Uldir. Add in a hard mode that you trigger.
lusty grotto
why are the two even comparable Censuras
supple path
Because atm the risk vs reward of mythic raiding is poop
stark sage
@narrow abyss god i hated the monotony of those raid schedules, not even fun after a few weeks of farm clearing
oblique garnet
Ulduar griff
lusty grotto
what
oblique garnet
Not uldir
narrow abyss
Yup
lusty grotto
listen
narrow abyss
And you’d never outgrow it cause you’re constantly gearing new recruits and trial
Haha
stark sage
yeah
narrow abyss
T2 pants on rag why
supple path
It was also pretty dumb that we had outgeared heroic loot ilvl by the end of the first week.
chilly brook
Bro tbh
supple path
But that's its own thing
unborn island
@chilly brook they didn't do that because they thought they would run out of ideas too fast
lusty grotto
if that's fixed, then you probably wouldn't see mythic guilds dying
sand egret
it's also not the end-all-be all of content anymore for people
oblique garnet
Make 10 man raiding great again
lusty grotto
i think that's something we are glossing over
supple path
The artificial barriers to mythic raiding are its own bag of stupid, yeah.
lusty grotto
server locked raiding shouldn't exist
chilly brook
@unborn island how so? It would basically be no different than what they do now with the difference from heroic to Mythic
lusty grotto
if those are improved...
strong hill
@oblique garnet I truly miss 10 man raiding.
narrow abyss
Attendance boss is killing mythic guilds. Agree on just making it xrealm from go
lusty grotto
hey man dont drop the rathe bomb
sand egret
they stepped back from 10 man raiding because that shit was a bitch to design for
tbh
narrow abyss
Thanksgiving was a massacre
magic hazel
Well we had 300 ppl when we killed him 😉
supple path
Rallos Zek killing Kerafyrm remains the highlight of that game, sure.
lusty grotto
rofl
chilly brook
I guarantee you a huge part of the attendance boss killing raids is the shit they keep doing with loot
unborn island
@chilly brook they meant in terms of 'ways to turn it on' I can't remember exactly where I read it, but fairly certain a blue said it
chilly brook
Killing ML was aids
magic hazel
Actually got the Killshot on him
lusty grotto
i dont think mythic 20 man lock is bad... server lock is
chilly brook
Adding in an ilvl restriction on trading is worse
oblique garnet
Its literally not hard since flex raiding is s thing
wary gyro
Attendance boss kept my guild from really progging mythic last tier
slow nimbus
Blizzard wants to make mythic raiding feel like a bigger deal than it should be in the face of everything else there is to do at endgame now (m+ and PvP) so they create barriers to keep it feeling exclusive
sand egret
well flex is the case for why it isnt a thing
lusty grotto
^
supple path
Attendance boss is why I literally don't mythic raid - my work schedule is in flux enough that I can only at most 80% commit to a raid schedule
chilly brook
Blizz is killing their own game
supple path
which for mythic raids = nope, don't bother
sand egret
there's a reason flex has breakpoints
chilly brook
Sooo.......
lusty grotto
attendance boss wouldn't be an issue if you could recruit from any server
supple path
Yeah Orange, it all feels like catering to this 'race' bullshit that they get all hyped about for a week every content patch
lusty grotto
or gasp pug slots
oblique garnet
You cant even pug mythic on some realms
slow nimbus
I have to take time off wow to recover from surgery that will leave me unable to play for 6-8 weeks and I'm worried I may not have a slot on the raid team when I come back
chilly brook
Let’s not act like the race isn’t something the community isn’t interested in
supple path
Sure, it's just really crappy to balance around
outer oriole
Hey guys, any tip for tanking Conclave, taking so much dmg after getting 2 stacks from kimbul ; /
chilly brook
Method has already proved they are hugely interested in it
narrow abyss
You taunt swap at 2 stacks
wary gyro
The race is fine and wouldn't be affected by them removing server locks
lusty grotto
are you an orc @outer oriole ?
outer oriole
nope, tauren
sand egret
@slow nimbus I don't think they want to make it a bigger thing at all. In fact, they want to maintain the prestige of it because without it....you get the "I don't feel special" complaints
lusty grotto
rip
supple path
BoP removes Kimbul stacks, yeah?
lusty grotto
yea
sand egret
they actually like the fact that there's multiple "endgames"
wary gyro
Bop does not remove stacks
sand egret
it's the "old school"-ers that they impose those barriers
supple path
oh lame, heard some paladins talking like it did
chilly brook
But at this point what you’re looking at addressing are the symptoms of the problem rather than the problem itself
The game isn’t fun to play because blizz is more concerned about making systems that get more time played rather than being fun
wary gyro
Bop removes the permanent bleed from the dps mechanic not the one he puts on tanks
lusty grotto
make sure he's being done 2nd @outer oriole , he needs to be burned down fast
chilly brook
Which leads to people deciding to put the game down
supple path
lame that dwarf superiority works on it but not that. oh well, thanks for confirming.
lusty grotto
for the bleed, use demo + IP
supple path
The game is being designed by mobile app devs imo
lusty grotto
dont be afraid to wall
stark sage
@chilly brook not sure thats entirely true, m+ is a system in my mind that was designed around having fun
outer oriole
Okey, healers rly struggeling to keep me alive after taunt swap
slow nimbus
One of the fundamental issues with that and with raiding is that there are far too many methods in the game right now for a player to acquire heroic equivalent gear without doing even remotely difficult content. That's a huge issue IMO. Not even talking about m+ or PvP but basic world content and warfronts
supple path
Everything about current wow reeks of the BS freemium apps pull
lusty grotto
do you have logs @outer oriole ?
chilly brook
M+ appeals to people who like speedrunning
outer oriole
yeah i can link
chilly brook
I’m not one of them
lusty grotto
i dont like speedrunning
chilly brook
Don’t get me wrong
lusty grotto
i like to do content correctly
chilly brook
I think m+ is the best thing to happen to the game in the pve sphere in a long time
lusty grotto
for the record i do enjoy raiding
narrow abyss
Agree. It saved me from the usual raid logging until I don’t cycle
chilly brook
But underlying systems are very much in place for retention rather than for being satisfying
stark sage
i would perhaps to go as far and say m+ is the best thing to happen to pve ever
lusty grotto
but it's absolutely fucking hard getting into a guild on my realm as tank
stark sage
aside from structured raiding i guess
lusty grotto
much less.. a mythic guild
narrow abyss
It shakes up that usual Tuesday lockout thing
outer oriole
brisk ferry
I just wish Azerite armor dropped from M+
since they dont TF, we'd still be locked at 400.
outer oriole
@lusty grotto took alot of tries to kill him
stark sage
@brisk ferry that ruin the balance of residuum
you could farm up each 415 piece in no time
grinding out m+
inland mesa
yeah, when my guild fell apart, I was lucky that two were looking on server and open minded to prot warrior, one told me I don't know how to play though XD
sand egret
imagine, everyone complaining that they "had to grind" and then complaining that "there's no rewards"
narrow abyss
Game is completely built around gating around weekly lockout
stark sage
for residuum
brisk ferry
I mean you're using pretty much the entire season to buy 1 specific azerite piece at the moment?
sand egret
players have no idea how much they are their own worst enemy
stark sage
random
narrow abyss
Yeah
sand egret
half of design is to prevent players from screwing themselves over haha
narrow abyss
Yup
chilly brook
Those two things are not mutually exclusive
stark sage
you can get 2 per week off residuum pretty easily, plus any scrapping
brisk ferry
2 azerite pieces?
stark sage
yes
chilly brook
Or anything in between
brisk ferry
without raiding?
stark sage
yes
brisk ferry
what ilvl?
stark sage
415
brisk ferry
how?
stark sage
m+
stark sage
you can get like 900 from doing a 15
brisk ferry
that's not 2 per week?
supple path
Yeah did you mean an item per 2 weeks?
sand egret
1750 for random. 2 weeks of +10 chests are 650 alone. Factor in any scrapping and you can get that in 2 weeks with some RNG luck
lusty grotto
^
brisk ferry
right okay that's fine
lusty grotto
at some point you will have the perfect azerite setup
brisk ferry
if scrapping 400s was less amount, then could we get azerite from M+
lusty grotto
so you will not care about residuum
stark sage
yeah i meant 1 per 2 weeks
native pawn
Back with some more off topic questions. Is there still a macro to zoom camera out further?
brisk ferry
wed still work towards those 415s, but not be stuck with 385s the entire time
lusty grotto
no @native pawn
stark sage
if you arent 3/3 415 at this point, you arent running high enough keys
or just have had the shittest of luck
native pawn
I got 3/3 bc of engi helm
lusty grotto
you're still getting a 415
native pawn
Yeah mine don't have the best traits but oh well
lusty grotto
that's not gambling
brisk ferry
I just cant understand any arguments against the 400s dropping in M+
sand egret
@brisk ferry i think the real issue is that I feel the need to have to min/max azerite pieces in general due to their inherent disparity. The intention (not result...as we've seen) is that the pieces themselves are largely interchangeable on a power level.
because they're not, we care about how to get more
supple path
I mean it'd make sense to allow 400s to drop but have them just be special flagged to not grant residuum
stark sage
because it would require everyone who cares about progress to literally grind their brains out in m+ for residuum
sand egret
thus they put in the bandaid solution until 8.2
brisk ferry
you mean like Method did for all leather raids?
or all plate raids
BUT
give the rest of us an option for it
wild idea
sand egret
^
stark sage
its mandatory
sand egret
this is a very important point
brisk ferry
I guess just reduce the amount of residuum from the 400s that drop then?
sand egret
this is historically been established to how the playerbase works
sand egret
give them an object sharp enough and they will stab themselves
so the key is to give them the most realistic rubber weapons
and even then, someone will get a concussion
brisk ferry
well we came into BFA with the MDI being huge
sand egret
honestly if blizz could have their way, the MDI and M+ would be the only end game system
brisk ferry
yeah me too
brisk ferry
so let azerite drop from M+ but have them scrap for no residuum
can I have that? lol
sand egret
but "why do I need to raid?!!!?!?!?! It's pointless when I can just do M+" - now-pissed-off-raider-who-doesn't-m+
brisk ferry
you can still do mythic for 415?
sand egret
raids being the most available source of azerite is a direct intention to incentivize raids
brisk ferry
and M+ isn't 100% drop rate either
supple path
M+ is cleanly superior to gearing up in heroic raids, and honestly competes with mythic raids.
sand egret
as its a) more accessible and b) easily farmable
brisk ferry
I guess that just puts it as my point of view then
narrow abyss
If the chest could still drop highest ilvl azerite in addition to residuum I’d be happy
sand egret
i'm not saying you're wrong
brisk ferry
a new system with new armor types (azerite) not dropping from the content I enjoy doing
sand egret
i'm just saying that's not how blizz is directing their game
brisk ferry
feels super bad coming into this expansion
sand egret
and a lot of it is to keep the raiding playerbase happy
brisk ferry
yeah makes sense
sand egret
there are a lot of people who hate dungeons, and being forced to do content you don't wanna do sucks.
HI ISLANDS
brisk ferry
lol fair
what if there were some sort of M+ or Raid specific azerite
like drops from M+, but only affects M+
be neat I suppose
sand egret
I wouldn't be surprised if there were more "special" M+ shit
and by that I mean....
you should wait for 8.2 😉
supple path
I really hate gear that's gated to not be useful in other content to be honest
big ol' asterisk on your reward
sand egret
current ideas are 🔥
brisk ferry
lol yeah I guess I will have to wait til 8.2
lusty grotto
@outer oriole dunno it looks like you managed that fine, externals could have been a lot earlier though, it seemed they lagged behind your wall... just call them out asap
brisk ferry
good discussion tbh
narrow abyss
Does it bug anyone that by 8.2 and assuming they fix a lot of the issues, they’re just gonna chuck it all out in 9.0 anyway?
sand egret
Puzzle, just to let you know 9.0 is already being worked on
integrating stuff mid-pipeline is a tad cray cray
lusty grotto
outside of those, i can comment on your play style but i think you did all you could there
outer oriole
@lusty grotto Thx for checkup 😃 ill yell at my healers then 😃
lusty grotto
just make sure you get a cd on you as soon as wall is down, i suppose
(i.e. you're SBing on LS - and for some reason not using IP when SB is up)
(last stand usage is low, so is demo - remember demo helps for claws too)
but that's extremely nitpicky maybe
just make sure your healers understand that you will take a lot of dmg on 2x claws
outer oriole
Will try have better uptimes on demo next week
naive panther
I don’t see m+ as a replacement for raids. Especially now with reduced titanforge chances.
lusty grotto
seemed you guys downed him in 1:30 so i think that time is fine
but perhaps someone else could comment
brisk ferry
I guess I hadn't looked at it this way, but for the raiders they probably feel like they HAVE to run at least a +10 each week in order to get their residuum
goes both ways I suppose
lusty grotto
i honestly just think
if they remove this realm lock shit for guilds and mythic raids
it will feel better
supple path
Yup. And if you really, really care about maximizing your ilvl, it's foolish to not spam a bunch of 10s in e.g. an all plate group
lusty grotto
you still get 400s, and 10s aren't that easy to do with all plate
supple path
I got a 420 from my 10 yesterday
narrow abyss
Prot warrior ret dk hpal uhhh
supple path
yeah 10s aren't that hard
narrow abyss
Hrm
supple path
though all plate is messier than e.g. all leather or whatnot
supple path
that was my point
lusty grotto
i wouldn't fucking do an all plate group ever like that
supple path
But the current system incentivizes that sort of behavior
lusty grotto
wow needs to take yet another page from GW2
dim blaze
Am I doing anything wrong on P2 of Jaina fight heroic or is it normal that main tank just stacks up really fast
supple path
(Though I will say hah, this is NOT the week I'd recommend for all plate groups)
dim blaze
It's not causing a wipe but just want to make sure that's normal
lusty grotto
(M+ were clearly influenced by d3's rifts which were influenced by GW2's fractals)
which btw
supple path
it's pretty normal, she gains an unavoidable frontal that adds a bunch of stacks
signal plover
There's no frontal in P2
supple path
oh that's p3 right
signal plover
Yes
@dim blaze you'll gain stacks from shards but there's also a lot of incidental dmg
lusty grotto
btw server economies aren't really something worth keeping... TSM and Undermine usually pair prices per REGION not server
@sand egret
signal plover
Use avalanches and the frost debuff stacks (the frostbolt looking one) falling off as tank swaps
sand egret
the question is not worth keeping
signal plover
There's a definitive timing to P2
sand egret
but rather is it worth the cost to replace them
lusty grotto
so that's kind of a silly excuse to keep guilds server locked
supple path
Server "economies" are just a measure of how active the 5 dbags who bot the AH on your particular server are anyhow
sand egret
you also have to realize there is a voice that wants guilds that way
"wow has no intimiate feel anymore"
"wow is faceless"
"yada
those are legit user-stories
supple path
Well because they're right. Sharding and cross-server everythinging has completely killed any 'server community' feel like there was in Vanilla. So now that it's totally dead why are we still clinging to it for mythic raids
sand egret
you may not agree on practical grounds, but it's definitely a thing that people want and have spoken to
it isn't totally dead
signal plover
The only reason I'm still playing wow is because of the guild/community I'm in so
To each their own
sand egret
but yeah, that's just one view point. They eventually open up cross-server mythic's anyway
signal plover
That plus mythic eaids
Cross realm mythic opens after "famed" titles are all claimed
lusty grotto
Yeah that stupid server community thing is bs
open bluff
(so 5 months into the tier since we have to wait on alliance)
sand egret
same could be said about your PoV 😃
supple path
you sound like dracula
lusty grotto
Paw you cling to your guild, that's not gonna change if wow drops server locks
supple path
Yeah guild community is a totally different beast than the mythical "server community"
signal plover
"cling"?
supple path
you specifically said it was the only reason you still played.
signal plover
I'd expect nothing more from ya tbh
lusty grotto
I mean I understand if guilds are super into server rankings..
I guess that brings up that issue
sand egret
if the conversation earlier had any thing to take away......people LOVE their metrics to rank shit...
😛
supple path
Oh yeah, a big appeal of MMOs to people is to be able to have a badge floating over your character that says, "BETTER THAN THIS OTHER GUY---->"
signal plover
Everyone just wants to feel like they're good or accomplishing something
lusty grotto
I guess that is a big issue
signal plover
And if you keep in your own bubble in wow you certainly get that out of it
lusty grotto
I shouldn't have overlooked it
supple path
The whole mythic raiding thing is going to eternally piss people off though because Blizzard changes back and forth mid-patch.
signal plover
Also you can still have server communities if there's enough folks on your server willing to make it happen. It isn't rly the same as when we had legit wow really forums and no group finder
supple path
So you get used to cross-server mythic raids at the back-half of a content patch and then get it taken away when new content comes out that you're excited about raiding
signal plover
Wow is still about guild communities imo
slow nimbus
I play on a low pop server that has a very strong sense or server community. But there no mythic pugs. Not like on Thrall which I transferred off of
lusty grotto
lets be honest though
signal plover
But wow is still at it's best when enjoyed with friends (regardless of content)
lusty grotto
server lock is a thing because Activision wants to keep monetizing it
supple path
^^
lusty grotto
but the whole server ranking thing is a big deal so they can fall back on that
signal plover
That and wow still has the population to support it
supple path
Can you even call it a microtransaction when it costs like 2 months of sub fees?
lusty grotto
imagine if they kept server locks
but it was free to move servers
would recruiting improve?
signal plover
For the mega servers yeah prolly
raven flower
He guys, is it usefull to 3x times select Deafening Crash (for m+) or shoud i use a other trait?
signal plover
What else ya got
lusty grotto
^
raven flower
[Brace for Impact] and [Bastion of Might]
signal plover
BoM fo sho
lusty grotto
most of us going 3 bom + 3 dc is because we are comfortable with content enough
signal plover
I like mixing in BfI too but I'm not pushing past 15 and don't wanna swap up traits for raids.
lusty grotto
BoM is better than additional DC on M+ and should be in the icy veins guide
sand egret
Tofu, you a bear yet?
signal plover
Looks like rabbit
outer dew
Debating if I boost or level
sand egret
the way to go
outer dew
NE is better
raven flower
what you prefore: 2x BoM + 2x DC or 1x BoM + 3x DC ?
sand egret
BoM
stacking DC isn't seem as a legit thing
it's meme-y
so between those the clear choice is 2x BoM and 2x DC.
raven flower
k thx man
sand egret
Ideally you want to ditch 1 of those DCs for a 3rd BoM if you're into M+
floral spade
Hi guys new to channel, just picked up prot for my groups M+ team was wondering best horde race was told Tauren, what about zandalari any word on if they will be good or are they all even?
rocky imp
How prot warrior sit with necro/sang compared to other tanks? Seems like Im relying on my group for silences/LOS a lot
Sitting in the 10-12 key range
sand egret
@floral spade , If you really wanna min/max racials...BE's going to win for the dispel. Racials won't make or break your shit outside of stuff like a full NE group to Shadowmeld.
@rocky imp . You have your own interrupt (anticipate when you need to move a caster, for instance) but Sang is handled in the typical way. Necro we generally can hang in later than most tanks. Leaping + a Shockwave will help you kite if need be
but nothing really special. We're still blasting this week
outer dew
kill shit faster
10-12 key range I don't even bother to kite
lmao
it's a game of chicken
the trash or I are gonna die
tsktsk
modern brook
@lusty grotto what time EST you thinkin?
outer dew
@floral spade join master race NE
slow nimbus
How much of his health bar does it Chunk off when a warrior reflects cyclone strike?
lusty grotto
@modern brook 6-7pm
sick sentinel
why did I even try to do KR on Necrotic/fortified...
mellow bridge
Does anyone here use this WA? https://wago.io/DeafeningCrashTracker
The tracking works well and I dont have any issues with it in dungeons, but when I raid I almost always get a LUA error after every fight because of it
Nothing big as I can just close it and nothing happens, but it's a bit annoying
anyone knows what's causing it?
modern brook
I havent used it
Duration tracking is more tha enough imo
tracking #of tc's -> 3 is also pretty straight forward if you wanna rewrite it ur self
The lua errors are probably just from it being outdated
fierce juniper
It's not outdated. I've personally never seen it cause a lua error so it's likely another WA interfering with it or it's possible that there's something that doesn't work correctly with a non-english client.
neon tangle
@fierce juniper hey, random thing I remembered
Have you tested the revenge DR stacking on live?
BDK channel found out yesterday that the duration increase stacking from ERW never made it to live
similar-ish effects
fierce juniper
You mean from callous?
neon tangle
yeah
mellow bridge
I'm using the english client
@fierce juniper @neon tangle
I only get this in raids, never in dungeons
fierce juniper
Yeah callous stacks the DR percent on live. i.e. if you have 3 callous at 3 stacks you'll have 4.5% DR.
mellow bridge
https://gyazo.com/025669762194a347a9206bf01bcbd7b8 the rest of it
fierce juniper
Is your WeakAuras addon up to date?
modern brook
👀
mellow bridge
Should be, I update it with the twitch client
mellow bridge
Can I reinstall it without losing all my auras/settings?
mellow bridge
aight I will try that
and yeah I've had some fps drops in BoD actually but I just thought that was because of the amount of particles etc
like on conclave
thanks for the help btw, if it acts up again I will be back asking for help again on Sunday :^)
cyan creek
I dont have a WA set for my prot warrior. Anyone have a nice one they would like to link before I go check a bunch out?
mellow bridge
Whatever you do, get the IP tracker WA
cyan creek
Im sorry, what is IP? third alt dont play it much just starting to get into it now ><
oh ignore pain lawl, nvm nvm
mellow bridge
Read the description, it's very useful :)
Then I'd recommend you get a shield block tracker that works with Last Stand
just makes it easier to track
sand egret
you whippersnappers and your fancy addons
back in my day all you needed was a can-do attitude and a good abbacus
slender patrol
395 rezan, 395 howler, 390 diamond. which 2
supple path
Rezan + diamond unless you give zero fs about survivability on a given thing.
slender patrol
k ty
cyan creek
So.. little confused for those of you who have the luxthos WA's... I am not seeing several thing like the rage bar, thunderclap etc.. from the video / pictures shown. I see there are multiple WAs for this however but only see 3 of them total? Am i missed something? I assume I am
ocean acorn
luxthos WA has like 6 parts
rotation CD utility specifics interrupts
and resources
for the rage bar its in resources i believe
cyan creek
gotcha, bottom part of the page didnt load for some reason. I see them all now. Thanks
ocean acorn
Ya np
exotic laurel
Is it still so if i use shield block on jaina i need to face her like on KJ in TOS or else the shield block wont work?
old night
what
oblique garnet
i mean
yes
if you are not facing the direction where you want to block
you wont block
exotic laurel
On KJ in tos when he flew in the air and you had to soak the big tnaking pool
you had to face him
old night
that still applies for everything
old night
its like that with everything
if a boss has any mech you have to face them or it wont do anything
exotic laurel
yeah just wanted to know because im picking up my warrior again from legion and didnt wanna die like that again
old night
i.e. SR on the vectis pools you have to face vectis
exotic laurel
alright thx
vocal skiff
If I just want to update a weakaura
should I delete and import again
Or is there an easier way
primal sable
dont think there is another way
narrow abyss
Yeah there is
There’s a desktop client called weakauras companion
I update everything at once super ez
main pike
Dumb question: for spell reflect to work you have to fact the target?
jagged bay
you can even put the new code in and can update the aura if u want
merry cave
@main pike nope
lusty grotto
^
drowsy flume
How do you guys like Jes's Howler for m+?
sand egret
about as much as I like getting Ebola
merry cave
A lot of people think it's great, I prefer others tbh
sand egret
I can't stand the thing. Numerically it's good, in practice is suuucks.
lusty grotto
its ok, but there are better
neon tangle
@drowsy flume It doesn't line up particularly well with avatar/demo, and it's fairly "weak" as far as trying to use it as a defensive CD goes
but it is nice for the group
fab if you can line it up with lusts, etc
drowsy flume
Thats what I was thinking, just got a titan forged version of it and was wondering if it was gonna replace my viel
vial*
neon tangle
what's the ilvls?
drowsy flume
410 / 420
neon tangle
and your second trinket?
drowsy flume
Oculances trinke
neon tangle
ilvl for that one?
drowsy flume
400
neon tangle
eh I'd prolly take a 420 jes over a 400 diamond
sick sentinel
This week diamond is weak
modern brook
Diamond is always strong
Idk what kaege is on
Unless necrotic stacks lower the absorb
sick sentinel
Diamond is strong on all weeks except necrotic
dense flame
Why not necrotic?
sick sentinel
Because it's just the initial shield and does not recharge after
neon tangle
@modern brook Doesn't necro lower all absorbs? i.e. disc priest / IP / whatever gets lowered
sick sentinel
It will start recharging once you drop necrotic stack and at that point you are going to pull more
Or you are going to start getting more
modern brook
I had thought non ability absorbs arent affected by or
sick sentinel
You are going to get a lot more use out of a different trinkey
dense flame
I see, thanks for the clarification 🥰
modern brook
It*
sick sentinel
For example a gore block
Or even a jes
Even though I don't like jes for mplus
I'd still equip it over a diamond this week
neon tangle
I'd be hesitant to drop 20 ilvls for a diamond, that's quite a bit of str
and the vers isn't exactly worthless
sick sentinel
I normally run rezan+s with diamond but I dropped diamond this week for Gore-block+s
All 400
quasi yacht
i would defs use jes over diamond if its 20 ilvls higher
granite stump
What traits for faceroll in Timewalk? 😄
neon tangle
To be sure for anyone who shows up, Guy had a 410 vial, a 420 jes, and a 400 diamond
@granite stump Leggos!
neon tangle
doesn't help me either way, didn't play during legion
unborn island
Gloves are poop without devastator an tier 2 piece :)
granite stump
Any reco for dps meme setup then?
sick sentinel
Is the KR trinket good ? I don't see a lot of people with it
What do you recommend as second trinket with the diamond than can work in any situation ?
I don't want to always change trinket depending of the fight
neon tangle
pretty much whatever the highest ilvl trinket you get is, preference towards dps trinkets w/ stat procs
Meka trinket is good, rezan's is good
and yeah the KR trinket is pretty bad
neon tangle
MDI affixes for the proving grounds have been posted
Tyran/Burst/Skittish + Fort/Teem/Quake
get ready for a sea of prot warriors
brave mauve
ready to see that 🍑 👏 😩 💦
shut summit
lusty grotto
paging @modern brook
sand egret
jesus...maybe Sense will actually play Prot and not kill hopes and dreams again,
lusty grotto
shots fired!
sand egret
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
shut summit
🙄
sand egret
😄
modern brook
@lusty grotto hihi
narrow abyss
Haha
low timber
anybodyu have any personal reccomendations for weak auras and a good elvui setup? been testing out some of my own, just wanted to see if anyone has any tried and true ones.
modern brook
#ui-addons-manager is prob a better place to ask for specific stuff
but for prot i think tracking IP amount/duration and sb duration are the most important things
followed by CDs
low timber
oh shit theres a specific channel how embarassing. thanks for the help anyway. I appreciate it. will go hit that channel up.
sand relic
can some 1 tell me why our warrior tank died https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/v8nfhkDAqx6yC4cB/
on grong
he died twice again
lusty grotto
@modern brook add me on bnet
i might run BoD pug
wait do i have you on bnet
its on my profile
modern brook
done
lusty grotto
is this from your guild?
sand relic
my casual guild ya
lusty grotto
he didn't SR grip
lusty grotto
if he takes the 3rd cast in the combo he should use Spell Reflect before getting gripped
that makes him not take dmg during grip
with a full IP (ignore pain) he should be able to survive impact np
lusty grotto
no need to see dbm, he sees the combo casts
he didnt spell reflect once
he did 0 spell reflects
tell him he can come by and we can explain
rapid wren
how is the diamond-laced refracting prism?
lusty grotto
its great
our best defensive trinket this tier
it's affected by haste
@sand relic make sure he understands that 3rd cast on combo gets gripped, and to pop Spell Reflect (or even wall)
he doesnt need wall though, just SR and a full IP
that's all he needs
otherwise he is gonna die pretty much every time unless he gets a healer external
which he shouldn't need
lusty grotto
but i did
lusty grotto
hes getting railed during grip which is completely avoidable if he SRs just before
sand egret
is this the same guy
sand egret
weren't you in here like a week ago and we came to the conclusion that your tank is awful
sand relic
yes
sand egret
and the only thing we can do is help him in here
sand egret
gotcha
sand relic
he wont
sand relic
i play warrior a bit as well im leveling mine so all this helps me as well
thats y i dont mind asking
sand egret
i feel ya, but also realize it's a bit weird playing this game of telephone help
when he could totally just come in here and do it directly is all. no need to be shy
sand relic
i here ya
neon tangle
Honestly his SB/ shield wall and stuff was relatively fine that round
it's a mix of relatively few heals and the SR thing
The hit after the throw is fairly beefy so if you're low you'll get gibbed
and it looks like your healers were not giving him a ton of heals as it was
I saw 1-2 direct heals over 30s?
round vortex
If that guy won’t come in here for help he deserves to be in the bin.
Refusal to help oneself in my eyes means refusal to deserve help.
neon tangle
@round vortex eh some people feel awkward / uncomfortable about getting picked apart by a bunch of experienced players
round vortex
It’s not being picked apart though. This community is really helpful and friendly
neon tangle
"weren't you in here like a week ago and we came to the conclusion that your tank is awful" - This channel, 5 minutes ago
You still have a fairly high chance of getting called awful
even if we're helpful 😛
anywho, it's useful to have empathy with others, nobody generally wants to do poorly
sick sentinel
is leech affected by necrotic/mortal strike 🤔 just remembered it might not be?
ocean acorn
MOAR LEECH
sick sentinel
i was cutting leech this week but now i might not
warm plinth
There aren't any heals or absorbs of any kind anymore that aren't affected by it I don't believe. Leech was at one point unaffected back in Legion, but it's been fixed for a very long time afaik.
olive lotus
I’m currently using a 400 alchemist Stone and 410 Rezan. I just got the briny barnacle at 410 with a socket. Is it worth equipping over the alchemist Stone?
warm plinth
I wouldn't. It's pretty bad.
neon tangle
I would upgrade my alch stone 😛
olive lotus
For mythic plus that is
I’m 1 breath away!
So technically I guess insert 415 alchemist Stone
Didn’t know if the aoe that the barnacle does holds any weight
neon tangle
I knows the sims aren't 100% accurate but at the same ilvl those trinkets are pretty similar
very possible that the barnacle will be slightly better at 410 damage wise
but also no defensive component
olive lotus
Has baseline strength 🤷🏻♂️
vale mason
hey all does Bulkwark of Masses stack the shield?
oblique garnet
@warm plinth btw i streamed 15 shrine with a decent route if you wanna check it out
warm plinth
👍 I'll check it out; thanks!
quiet tinsel
Greetings, i have a query, what is the current standard expected dps and healing output expected from a 400ilvl prot warrior in raids
open bluff
sim for dps
modern brook
@oblique garnet @sand egret ur really leaving us p dry rn
open bluff
it'll at least give you a ballpark figure to work with
open bluff
even if the actual number isn't completely accurate
quiet tinsel
kk ill have a look never sim'd before as i heal and tank, im having a look now
warm plinth
I wouldn't worry about expected healing output. That's not a metric you should be judging yourself by. If you're using Ignore Pain like you should be, you're doing enough "healing"
quiet tinsel
yeah i dont normally consider it, but seeing the self healing of other tanks make me think wth...
brave vine
well, blood dks dont have a chance to mitigate 85% of a physical attack
warm plinth
Other specs are designed to have self-healing in place of the extensive mitigation we have.
We're a proactive spec; we focus on preventing damage, not healing it. The only reason we really have HPS at all is because Ignore Pain counts on healing meters.
edgy linden
Just ran a key on my new warrior tank and looking for suggestions if possible Here is the up time on my stuff. It feels like my Shield block is low? But will leave it up to you pros.
quiet tinsel
aye true, i was just curious if there was min baseline expectation but all good
according to this sim im doing like 3-4k less than i should be, something to work on haha
warm plinth
Yeah, unfortunately since our "HPS" is coming from an absorb that costs rage, there are too many variables to give a distinct expectation. It's easier to just make sure you're pressing the button when you should be.
undone sun
Sims are generally perfect play anyways, on patchwerk fights it'll be hard to reach sim dps
warm plinth
Yeah, and our sims aren't perfect yet either as far as I know, so take them with a grain of salt.
quiet tinsel
yeah fairo, and thanks for the clarification, its what i knew already but i was getting grief from guildies about being ultra low on hps and im thinking yeah im not dieing to crap and survive for decent durations without heals haha
warm plinth
Do you usually have a DK or DH tank?
quiet tinsel
yeah dk
warm plinth
Yeah, comparing us to them is a huge mistake from an HPS perspective. Their entire kit is based on healing the damage they just took.
They'll just have to adjust to the change
rapid wren
should i sim for dps for ST or MT for m+?
quiet tinsel
yeah thats what i thought also, appreciate the info/clarification ❤
warm plinth
I usually do Hectic Add Cleave with a 1-2 minute duration (leave boss targets at 1; it automatically assumes 5 targets iirc) @rapid wren
rapid wren
ok cool thanks man
oblique garnet
@modern brook im sorry my friend my na character isnt ready
open bluff
There's also a dungeon slice sim on raidbots @rapid wren
oblique garnet
@outer dew What level?
outer dew
115 I think
oblique garnet
you bear?
primal crypt
@oblique garnet hell yea brother
native pawn
Anyone good with macros?
Was wondering if it's possible to make a last stand use healthstone if it's on cooldown macro
oblique garnet
you dont want to macro healthstone with last stand
last stand is part of your rotation
healthstones are used differently
rapid wren
what ilvl should i be ok in a 10 key at?
warm plinth
385ish or so should be good enough
teal kelp
400 Rezan's gleaming eye / 405 Diamond-Laced Refracting Prism / 415 alchemist stone
which is the best out of the 3?
sand relic
whats better for weapon enchant quick nav or siphoning
inland mesa
17 Waycrest timed 😄
undone sun
quick nav
undone sun
i wouldn't use it for anything pve
warm plinth
Definitely not something we would take. I highly doubt it would be good in PvP either tbh, since I imagine haste is good for the same reasons in that arena. However, that's not my area of expertise at all.
It's 2.5% leech at 120
brave mauve
Ok, ok, shhhhh, listen. Ok. 3 Bastion of Might. 3 Gathering Storm. Ravager.
Shhhhhh. Just let it happen.
warm plinth
I just had a very sudden urge to throw up.
undone sun
likewise
ember arrow
potent gorge
Is a 415 alchemist stone going to be better than a lot of trinkets at 400? I have a 405 rezans eye and 400 diamond, not sure if a 415 alchemist would be worth to make
warm plinth
Honestly, I think I'd use the rezan+diamond. 😬
I definitely wouldn't say the difference would be great enough to work toward making it.
potent gorge
Yea that’s what i have been using they seem pretty good, I just didn’t know if the alchemist stone is op cuz of its up time
outer dew
what content/
sick sentinel
Which trinket combo for mythic+ in general out of: RAGE(400)/Diamond(400)/Alch stone(400)?
lusty grotto
depends on the ring
diamond is very good with these affixes
depends on the key rather
sorry
its late hehe
so for higher keys or if youre pushing i would go diamond and alch
otherwise RAGE + Alch stone
full smelt
just starting to learn prot and was curious about trinkets as well seems best i have right now is the vial of animated blood and lingering sporepods ones. what trinkets should i farm?
lusty grotto
vial is good
sporepods is meh
vial, butcher block, rezan are the best we can get, jes is another one but its kinda eh
due to its cd
if you can raid and get a diamond off oppulence, its extremely solid as well
full smelt
oh butcher is good too ? i didnt know i have a butcher
lusty grotto
same with RAGE (mechagnome trinket not gorilla) and anchor
full smelt
so a 400 butcher and 400 vial would be fine ?
lusty grotto
for dps yes
for survivability + dps a rezan might be best
if youre only looking at M+ trinkets
macro vial to avatar, should be solid
and should be up every other avatar if you're managing rage correctly
hidden ether
Whats beter 395 ritual ring(KR) or 400 band of multi
lusty grotto
at 5 ilvl difference... depends on what stats you want
whats your main content type? raids or m+?
warm plinth
Well I know band is crit/vers
lusty grotto
ritual ring is haste/vers
both are decent
i guess
ritual ring might be a bit better
but not by much
or actually it does have a lot of haste
id wear the ritual ring for sure
maybe swap to band of multi for those KRs hehehehehheehe
hidden ether
lol i gave it to a guildy who had a 370
ill grind some KR to get another one at 400
oblique garnet
@outer dew druid 120 yet?
outer dew
115
outer dew
are you alliance?
oblique garnet
I slept
primal crypt
like 30 min lol
oblique garnet
Yeah seems about right
I either sleep alot or very little theres no inbetween yamo
primal crypt
top kek
broken magnet
sorry this is off topic and i just want a real fast answer, is stacking mastery viable atm?
oblique garnet
Well but it is
As long as its the highest ilvl pieces you got i see no reason not to stack mastery
@outer dew oh your dudu is alliance?
broken magnet
ty ty
oblique garnet
Im sorry tofu i refuse to play alliance
outer dew
ruo
oblique garnet
Because i dont have dark iron dworfs open i cant even ever try alliance
little rain
Will test tomorrow but anyone know the result of spell reflecting Laminaria's Reaching Attack?
sick sentinel
@full smelt do not macro vial into avatar, since you want to pre-use avatar (for example 2sec before reaping) and that means you will lose a a big part of the super strong duration of it (since vial gives big strength and then it trickles down)
restive pivot
Whats “top kek”
sick sentinel
Just have a trinket bind
@restive pivot 4chan thing, they use it for something funny
restive pivot
Hmm, Top Kek is literally a sub brand of a cake in my country.
Seemed weird to see it here
sick sentinel
LOL
restive pivot
Not sure if i am allowed to post this, sorry if its nit appropriatez
sick sentinel
Totally a #protection thing
sick sentinel
@potent gorge I would use diamond + alch stone
restive pivot
Btw, after some tips from you all, our group managed to time a 13.
Our best was 11.
Thanks a lot everyone.
umbral forge
how do you deal with necrotic as a warrior?
restive pivot
Leap away
Ask for utility
Vortex, typhoon, ring if peace.
If its a single mob, request a quick taunt.
Shockwave and use intercep on a ranged player
Diamond trinket from opulence is pretty good especially in this week.
lapis ridge
about how much value is engineering helm? is any of the "special traits" really good?
shell horizon
I have a 370 rezan and a 380 vial, just got a 390 Lingering sporepod, do I swap one of them out for sporepod? (Played prot for 2 days so brand new)
I will mainly play m+
outer dew
never
sick sentinel
@shell horizon sporepods is garbo
sick sentinel
@lapis ridge the gismo trait from the engi help is p-good
@restive pivot I would argue that the Diamond is strong in all weeks except this one
the value of it comes from it pumping shields, even during compat
if you are playing properly and you are pulling the sec you exit combat, you give the diamond no chance to recharge