why must u hurt me yam
#protection
modern brook
primal crypt
😄
narrow abyss
😂
modern brook
does Late have a youtube?
lusty grotto
ayo
bull
gotta thank you for your findings on grong
rocked it up with SR + Demo yesterday, no external cds needed
we don't use pawn @upbeat sentinel
modern brook
😄
Demo doesnt reduce Impact damage, as a nother knowledge drop for you
Environment does the damage, not grong
lusty grotto
motherfu..
modern brook
IP should be more than enough though
lusty grotto
so i was just living due to SR and IP
modern brook
if you can sneak it in while in the air
I mean that SR drops 150k damaeg in heroic
I imagine its much more in mythic
dense flame
You know what’s fun
modern brook
:^) me?
dense flame
Not giving a fuck about bolstering and creating big boys
modern brook
:^(
dense flame
And still timing keys
lusty grotto
im not scared about bolstering
dense flame
Hahahaha you are fun bullfango
modern brook
❤
lusty grotto
grievous + tyr is the fucking affix that breaks me, especially in Siege because Nimchipadin has PTSD
modern brook
Grevious tyr is rude for sure
lusty grotto
"hey guys here you go, put this knockback dot on 2 people within 1 dispel cd, np np"
lusty grotto
"lets also put a wall right smack in the middle of the first cannon, so everybody is LoS, because fuck healers that's why"
"oh? you gotta move to go within LoS of heals/dispels? watch out for those fishies tee hee"
modern brook
in fairness, movement is pretty much a paladin only problem now a days
thats just not true actually
ignore me
:^(
lusty grotto
i mean it could be
modern brook
i just play warrior/rogue so movement is a big joke to me
modern brook
I dont play paladin because horse is a dumb movement option TBH
lusty grotto
you take that back
modern brook
that said I keep seeing sick looking paladins
lusty grotto
horsie is a saint
modern brook
So I'm probably going to finish leveling him
Unless they make DH playable
keeping my eye on 8.2 updates
VDH will be meta in 8.2
lusty grotto
i did hc BoD yesterday with a VDH, he was doing fine
modern brook
VDH is fine in raids
where they have 4 healers and their cooldowns do things
but raids are for nerds
lusty grotto
that moment when he told me to only take coin sweeps? with full diamond... HA HA HA HA bro have you heard of shield block
modern brook
and exist soley as a source of azerite for cooler content
lol
"Lemme tell you about 🇧 value"
lusty grotto
"so this boss has a tank buster".... what tank buster?
modern brook
We were talking about kings rest in my guild
and everyones like yeah tyr kings rest sucks cause of blade combo
😬
lusty grotto
ROFL
modern brook
I forgot blade combo is real
lusty grotto
jesus haha
lucid bough
Is real pain if you are bdk ya
uneven mason
Yeah the difference between the 2 tanks I play
modern brook
yeah if ur playing a loser class without a big square
uneven mason
is shocking sometimes
modern brook
🤷
chrome falcon
Is Merektha's Fang still good for damage
uneven mason
Like, healers be like "why u die"
modern brook
Merektha's fang is good for scrapping
lucid bough
That trinket was super shit, then they buffed to good trinket, then they nerfed to shit
uneven mason
I was much sads
lucid bough
so its still shit
modern brook
so i imagine its bad here too
modern brook
:yikes:
lusty grotto
super crap-ola
lusty grotto
a present for the scrapper machine, you could say
chrome falcon
i got a RAGE from mekkatorque yesterday though, not sure if it's better or worse than equal ilvl Vial
uneven mason
I don't scrap anymore
chrome falcon
Vial feels crazy strong but apparently RAGE is even better
uneven mason
literally need 20expulsom for the rest of the expansion
modern brook
Vial's big thing is that its a mast trinket
lusty grotto
i wouldnt say RAGE is better than vial
uneven mason
cause you get it back when you scrap
modern brook
or rather
uneven mason
RAGE is bestest
lusty grotto
yeah i noticed that mac
modern brook
the big strike against vial*
uneven mason
I don't scrap trinkets
I vendor them
I stopped scrapping
because vendor
is best trash disposal
but for rings
lusty grotto
eh
uneven mason
cause rings can turn into $$$ when you get a blue gem
lusty grotto
i still scrap cause i don't wanna waste time gathering shit anymore
lusty grotto
dunno random shit like ore/gems
uneven mason
can't get herbs
primal crypt
Anyone here good with weakauras?
lusty grotto
that's the only thing i gather, if anything
lusty grotto
weep was yamo!
primal crypt
lmao
modern brook
@chrome falcon I'd use RAGE over Vial assuming your other trinket is better than both.
lusty grotto
i would vial any day for M+
modern brook
^ also true
lusty grotto
but RAGE is good
modern brook
Vial is good because its a lot of STR for your burst windows
but on a pure stat pov
a 400 vial is ~equal to about 360 Strength
and passive mastery is pretty lame, considering it gets stacked to shit with BoM
RAGE is passive STR (best stat) with on use ramping haste (second best stat)
So basically RAGE on the whole, is better imo
Vial is good anytime you want fat fucking avatars every 3rd avatar or so
that said Vial + avatar do not line up very well
lusty grotto
i dont really like the ramp up thing, by the time it's full Avatar is almost over
lusty grotto
yeah i'd assume that's a better way to use it
where as vial is up front then decays
so it's the inverse thing
modern brook
Yeah vial is 100% better for burst
no argument
I just think Rage is better in basically every other situation
lusty grotto
bro vial and avatar do line up well its a 1min30s cd
chrome falcon
^
lusty grotto
it's not a Jes 😛
chrome falcon
vialling every second avatar is ez
BUT
vial doesn't make your character shoot steam out of their shoulders
steel mauve
You can macro it into avatar for thoughtlessness, but imo it would be better to let it ramp a bit before avatar
modern brook
^
lusty grotto
rofl
chrome falcon
so there's a definite tradeoff there
lusty grotto
mattacate is all about the sparkles
chrome falcon
also avatar literally lasts longer than RAGE so
modern brook
Im still farming for grongs trinket
upbeat sentinel
@lusty grotto hey can you DM me?
chrome falcon
no reason not to pop them at the same time
lusty grotto
it'll help you
modern brook
U dont use it during avatar thats dumb
avatar is my big square and foot mode
after avater i go mongo monkey mode
then i have to play the game because im probably 80% dead from being a mongo monkey
lusty grotto
i'm going to assume grong is the strongest trinket for fury
lusty grotto
oh really?
modern brook
yeah the downtime isnt somethin you want on fury
sick sentinel
Merektha's is very strong if you use it well in keys, if you dump it into reaping alone its about 10% of your damage
lusty grotto
so its not like Guldanny trinket?
modern brook
but is sick AF on arms
chrome falcon
fury relies on keeping up its enrage rhythm
modern brook
cause u can grong and stillget AA's fro rage
chrome falcon
@lusty grotto Guldan trinket was good because fury's cooldowns/enrage scaled in a completely disgusting way
lusty grotto
merektha is trash
sick sentinel
then you are using it poorly
lusty grotto
there are way better trinkets, it is trash
modern brook
How can merektha's do 10% of your damage if ur foot is 88?
chrome falcon
damage on Reaping is irrelevant
sick sentinel
if you drop your packs correctly so you dont get shit reaps
chrome falcon
there is literally nothing i care about less
sick sentinel
its ridiculous
chrome falcon
than reaping damage
modern brook
are u not using ur sword?
chrome falcon
it's a bunch of training dummies
modern brook
someitmes u gotta walk outa purple matt 🤷
chrome falcon
my animal brain that wants to pump big numbers cares about reaping
but that's about it
sick sentinel
all damage is valuable, what are you talking about lol
steel mauve
Pretty sure you can do more damage during reaping not using merekthas
chrome falcon
also yeah TCs during avatar will almost definitely outdps a fang
lusty grotto
which you cant do using that trash trinket
chrome falcon
and i'm not comfortable standing still during reaping
modern brook
Also imagine face tanking Reapings without blocks 😬
sick sentinel
have you fought reaping on a 17+ unless you have a DH running barrage, it doesn't just fall over
lusty grotto
get fucked by smashes yeah
sick sentinel
I'll log the next 17+ I do with fang, you're undervaluing it a lot
daring marlin
@lusty grotto guldan trinket was amazing cuz of BC
and the damage was overtuned until the nerf
lucid bough
Draught of souls was magical
naive panther
Blood mallet showing knot higher dps than vial of animated. Both are 400 ilvl. St and aoe. Sims even trustworthy yet as I wasn’t expecting that.
lucid bough
I still have the icon on my bars when i raid as fury
lusty grotto
they are def not trust worthy
daring marlin
sims aren’t 100% for prot
sick sentinel
OK so is it 100% confirmed I can 
Cyclone Strike on 1st boss of ToS for phat deeps without it murdering me to death ?
daring marlin
You can.
lusty grotto
but why
naive panther
Yeah I know but what do I do hit some dummies to compare?
primal crypt
Wait what??
lusty grotto
oh for deeps
sick sentinel
it assumes you are using the trinket on cd, edit on SimC yourself to delay for ava and its a different story
daring marlin
Try to do it right before it lands so your SR isn’t eaten by the other mob.
lucid bough
oh i didnt know that u could reflect the cyclone
primal crypt
You can SR cyclone strike???
daring marlin
Yes.
primal crypt
The fuck
lucid bough
1 strike only?
daring marlin
Why has nobody tried it before lol
primal crypt
I swear, if I die
daring marlin
all of them
naive panther
Yeah would only use during avatar obviously
lusty grotto
LOL
primal crypt
I feel like Im getting jebaited so hard
chrome falcon
i have definitely tried SRing cyclone strike
lusty grotto
trust guilford!
chrome falcon
and it definitely fucking murdered me
patent flower
410 boots w/o haste or 400 boots with haste and a socket? Im leaning towards haste.
sick sentinel
@primal crypt I know right ? It sounds unreal D:
daring marlin
You have to time it properly my dude
chrome falcon
i had the buff up when it hit me
lusty grotto
ILVL > ALL @patent flower
chrome falcon
i don't think i can time it better than that
daring marlin
if the other mob takes your SR off you’re fucked
lucid bough
LUL
lusty grotto
trust guilford guys
lucid bough
Specially in TOS when if you wipe on 1st boss, just destroys the key
lusty grotto
i trust you guilford 😃
daring marlin
gonna go try it in a 0 dimchimp?
lusty grotto
i just said i trust you
daring marlin
Because that shit is legit the best feeling.
sick sentinel
I need to science it in m0
daring marlin
You’re memeing.
lusty grotto
waduhek
lusty grotto
wow yamo
daring marlin
I’d hit SR right as it’s about to go off.
It’s not that bad.
He has a cast time for it lol
sick sentinel
is it as good feeling as reflecting Yimiron in Maw of souls ?
modern brook
😬 as an aside, has anyone noticed SR on jade fire not applying the dot and subsequent blast to the wizarD?
lusty grotto
you mean the bug was fixed?
sick sentinel
well that would change things
lusty grotto
i just dont use SR on jadefire
sick sentinel
I stopped using it when I realised I'm murdering everyone with it
lusty grotto
hmmmm
chilly brook
I need to actually get back into playing again
I say that but every time I do say that I play for a day or so
And don’t touch it for over a week
modern brook
I'm really confused
Burn out is still going off on rising flames when hes a bird
but not when hes not a bird
but according to my logs i didnt reflect any of the searing pecks?
chilly brook
I wonder if WoW got hit by the 800 employee layoff
paper tartan
Developers did not get hit. Just community manager sections and probably moderators in general.
modern brook
So on jadefire heroic, at least, when you spell reflect fireball, it reflects the fireball and prevents the stack, but doesnt apply it to the boss
When you spell reflect searing beak
It reflects the stack onto the boss
lusty grotto
But did you blow the raid up?
chilly brook
Incoming butchering of Warcraft for phone games
junior igloo
there is warcraft 3
modern brook
But it also means you're free to spam SR before hes a bird
which is the bigger thing imo
signal plover
Also we have phones so...
chilly brook
I mean WC3 reforged already has a team and is already a known project
modern brook
pet dungeon phone game is pog tbh
chilly brook
@modern brook Y I K E R S
supple plover
So here is a story of my guilds first two mythic jadefire kills. Week 1, healers went ready for sudden damage intake increase from the bird so i died and we had no BR. OT was a BM, we rode it put and killed it with the BM at 50 stacks. Then stacks fall off and everyone dies.
stoic bluff
an extra deafening crash for more damage or a bonded souls? for m+
chilly brook
It’s not even out yet iirc
modern brook
I say more stomp divviine
lusty grotto
Extra DC for m+ imo
modern brook
but bonded souls helps if ur struggling to stay alive
lusty grotto
Yeah what bull said
modern brook
^ hell yeah
chilly brook
If you find you’re having issues you can always swap
supple plover
This week prot paladin OT is back. We get to last phase and healers are having issues, turns out they were having more trouble now that taunt swaps were happening and the rest of the raid took damage. End result rank swaps at 15-20 stacks.
Fun times
chilly brook
Oh wait
lusty grotto
Gotta bottyclap it
modern brook
Good name @supple plover
lusty grotto
Oof gravios
modern brook
did u down m jade fire?
supple plover
Yeah
modern brook
ezpz then :^)
chilly brook
Noice
supple plover
Just funny that end result is just take more stacks and do fewer but larger burst of raid damage
Apparently prot paladin discord was spazzing when my OT told them about it
chilly brook
I mean
They’re Paladins what do you expect?
They’re all the kids who rerolled Paladin because Sco said prot was bad in 8.0
supple plover
Odd question now, anyone else have the boss on mythic champions just stop channeling prayer
He started the adds began casting and then 1s later he was just like I'm done and started autoing again
latent chasm
Looking through logs, is there a reason why tanks are stacking multiple DC traits? Just for the dmg?
stoic summit
for M+ would I want to stack bastion of might trait? or just get 1 similar to deafening crash?
tired cove
wary gyro
You stack bom
stoic summit
does it just give more mastery per stack? or also make ignore pain bigger?
just curious how it works
stoic summit
nice
limpid wadi
Wouldn't DC be better for M+ tho?
chilly brook
No
stoic summit
well you always want ONE dc no?
limpid wadi
Ah
chilly brook
More mastery=more damage on everything
limpid wadi
So one DC rest BoM kinda?
chilly brook
Yes
Obv you do with what you got
But ideally if you wanna be “optimal” one DC and a lotta BoM for m+
lusty grotto
This is all on the icy veins guide btw
stoic summit
i feel pretty lucky with my 400 pieces so far
2x iron fortress
1x bom
1x bfi
1x bloodsport
1x dc
chilly brook
IF is my favorite defensively
lusty grotto
Lucky why? Those are prot traits, not really lucky there heh
You basically have 1 of each pretty much minus CR
sick sentinel
or be a man and run 1xDC 1xBom 1xBfi and triple treacherous
thats some fucking pumper damage in keys
chilly brook
Not like he’s missing much without it 😜
lusty grotto
🤷
unique herald
for ST is there much difference between IF or BFI
stoic summit
none of mine have treacherous =(
my resto shaman is a nightmare seems like half of them are just garbo completely
chilly brook
BFI would technically be better
lusty grotto
Bfi is better st for sure
chilly brook
But close enough in both regards that you can really be fine with either
lusty grotto
Don't bother with treacherous @stoic summit
latent chasm
It's weird seeing so many prot warriors stacking 2-3 DC's on their gear, look at the mythic rankings on warcraftlogs for warriors.
lusty grotto
Or don't look at logs
chilly brook
It’s just free damage
stoic summit
i mean it might just be best option on their piece right?
lusty grotto
Unless if you wanna get meme'd like that dude that specs ravager before logging out
stoic summit
i can't imagine playing without anger management x.x
lusty grotto
Woosh
chilly brook
I bet he couldn’t have either until he did it 😜
lusty grotto
But he didn't, that's the point
Just meme'ing people that browse armory for gear advice
Or talent advice
chilly brook
Last I checked WCL doesn’t use armory talents
lusty grotto
True
chilly brook
🙃
chilly brook
Yep
mental tundra
I got the dream setup 3x 415 pieces, 1 DC - BoM, 1 IF - BoM, 1 IF - BoM... works like a charm in m+
lusty grotto
Nice
chilly brook
Guys I don’t know about you but I’m so glad that prot received mega buffs in 8.1 :kappa
chilly brook
Sorry am I trolling too hard?
lusty grotto
Nah I caught it
Just commenting as a sidenote
That last one really grinds my gears
Then I point to Mac screenshot
chilly brook
I’m actually amazed that my predictions going into BFA were correct
lusty grotto
Which was that? I don't remember
chilly brook
Just that prot would be resident sleeper, it would be underrated in 8.0 and then with the next raid tier it would either start to become a top tier or steal top tier spot with scaling and possible buffs
lusty grotto
There were other changes that made us good like physical ranged attacks being blockable
chilly brook
I mean
lusty grotto
We did the same dmg pre 8.1, just had to double or triple pull
chilly brook
Like people were dumb
stoic summit
well, part of it is that its easier to manage big pulls as a group now though right, since dps are also much stronger in 8.1
so as a group you can pull bigger and dps things down faster which amplified us further
lusty grotto
They added a 2nd ring but that wasn't prot specific
chilly brook
This was specifically because people still thought that IP>SB
chilly brook
I’ve got tons of screencaps of dummies
stoic summit
that doesn't even make sense tho
chilly brook
No it doesn’t
stoic summit
i'm not even mythic geared and my block value is like 55%
chilly brook
Which is why I screencapped it lmao
outer dew
I wish IP was still uncapped
old night
people still dont see Last Stand as a 12 second shield block and only use it as an "oh shit"
lusty grotto
Yeah film that too
old night
thats another suprising one
old night
i helped a buddy get through fetid with that
stoic summit
and with AM its such a short cd
old night
yup
I almost always pop it on pull so I can hit my IP ceiling
thats super subjective tho. I know theres probably people that highly disagree with that but like you said, with AM its short af
chilly brook
sand egret
i feel so awkward having SB charges up when I hit LS.
chilly brook
The length people go to in order to try and prove someone wrong
old night
oh is this from your guide vid griff
chilly brook
Yea lmao
old night
those comments are so good
chilly brook
There’s another screenshot of the rest of the comment
old night
i had a guildie tell me brewmaster in BfA is the hardest tank to play. Nearly spit my water out. Shit is 4 buttons tops
chilly brook
Literally a full screenshot of text
stoic summit
@sand egret i mean its pretty rare that I would ever last stand while still having SB charges up. usually with it up nothing would get me low hp anyway =/
chilly brook
95% of it just irrelevant drivel
lusty grotto
its almost like Bolster was kind of a replacement for NF
how to fill in SB gaps 101, pop NF
how to fill in SB gaps in BFA 101, pop LS with Bolster
sick sentinel
brm is braindead but spamming isb for 4 hours straight is a pain the ass
stoic summit
what is NF? sorry i'm bad at acronyms
sick sentinel
Bolster is hardly NF replacement
sand egret
Nelth's Fury
sick sentinel
owns your hands
stoic summit
oh
sand egret
the artifact ability
sick sentinel
Bolster is amazing, NF sucked donkeyballs
chilly brook
I would miss it
sand egret
if you rock BoM
stoic summit
why tf did they get rid of legion artifact abilities
sand egret
popping avatar is like the asme thign
chilly brook
If we would have been able to move while channeling it
old night
NF was straight booty
stoic summit
but it was so COOL
old night
gimmie that bolster baby 😍
stoic summit
i loved the design of it
lusty grotto
it IS the NF replamement, whether NF was worse designed is irrelevant
chilly brook
The difference between NF being booty and it being good was literally movement
lusty grotto
its an SB gap filler with crit block
sick sentinel
I can name you exactly 3 bosses I used NF on
old night
only thing I hate that didnt come with BfA was none of our legos ever turned into talents
would have loved healing bracers as a talent
lusty grotto
then you didnt know how to manage block uptime
sand egret
uh... 3x Heroic Leap
analog swift
Everyone always says the bracers
sand egret
is the only thing I want
stoic summit
i just want movespeed boots haha
analog swift
The belt was way better
chilly brook
I hate a lot of the lack of transition from legion
old night
oh yeahhhh
analog swift
Even more demo shouts
stoic summit
i used belt+gloves 90% of the time
old night
yup
analog swift
Imagine that with the 2 seconds cd from avatar
Yeah I’d swap in sephuz depending on the key
sand egret
i'm pretty sure i'm like the only one who actually likes the legion > bfa transition heh
chilly brook
Legendaries were a great System
old night
blade only wants the boots back so he can dunk on me
chilly brook
Minus the acquisition
stoic summit
well, bfa was initially soured for me because I startred expansion as an enhancement shaman
chilly brook
Well actually
analog swift
That first boss in the helya dungeon
lusty grotto
pre 8.1 was fine
analog swift
Whatever it was
stoic summit
i was enhance all through legion and loved it, but bfa killed it
analog swift
Maw or souls
chilly brook
The legendary acquisition was great after they added the currency
analog swift
8.0 just felt like such ass
sick sentinel
Fine number wise but shit playstyle wise
analog swift
Agreed griff
chilly brook
Pre 8.1 was.....
lusty grotto
it was shit for shit players
sand egret
in concept it was fine before. players ruined it tbh
lusty grotto
that's what it was
old night
you can thank the WoW subreddit for most of that
lusty grotto
not trolling at all
sand egret
it was a 100% community born problem
old night
its the center of shit players bitching about shit because they're shit
analog swift
I only started tanking in 7.3 with the at21 set where we were swimming in rage. So it just felt bad
lusty grotto
that's what it was
sick sentinel
It worked but it was god awfull
lusty grotto
shrug, most of us did fine
analog swift
Honestly we didn’t even need buffs
sick sentinel
like running at full speed, jumping into 1 meter watter and then running again
analog swift
Just taking IP off the gcd felt so much better
chilly brook
I mean there was a lot that I hated in 8.0
sand egret
"I don't have this thing" = " I literally can't play my class". Part was in fact true due to lack of foresight with some balance but a lot of it was player born
chilly brook
Still do
old night
my fave part of legion was antorus, when you combined both tiers and would waterfall rage... man that healing was nutty
analog swift
So good
chilly brook
Antorus was a lot of fun
analog swift
Consistently beating dps in keys was fun
chilly brook
I just don’t understand why they did BFA the way they did
Legion was great
They had really good systems at the end
old night
I outhealed every healer except for a resto sham on mythic doggos
sand egret
also people forget that Legion, as an expansion, was designed around US as the centerpiece of power. It was the expansion when we're literally destroying our gods.
sick sentinel
Antorus: the time when prot warriors took less damage than any other raid member lul
narrow abyss
If it works throw it out and put something else in
chilly brook
But then they stripped those systems and left the bad stuff that legion had
sand egret
so the power fantasy was so out of wack
chilly brook
It’s not even power fantasy that I care about
sand egret
bfa and legion weren't built progressively
analog swift
Yeah. Should have literally just plopped the top 3 leggos and top 3 artifact abilities into 110 and 120 slots
chilly brook
I wanted smaller numbers
stoic summit
the fact that we didn't get new 120 talents is honestly mindblowing
lusty grotto
the talent shuffle for us was fucked up, i admit
sand egret
eh
it's called horrible management of resources due to a very outdated development infrastructure
lusty grotto
not that we had a lot of options in legion anyway
analog swift
Like literally put the pants gloves and bracers as the last row
narrow abyss
I bet the neck and azerite system gonna be really good by end of expac. Then Thrown out for 9.0.
chilly brook
“We’re not going to have tiers anymore because it’s too much effort to balance”
sand egret
because as a system they were getting dumped on
fortnite crushes them developmentally
wary gyro
You know they actually expanded the wow team right
narrow abyss
What I will say though. Is 8.1 has felt a lot better than 8.0. Not just prot
sand egret
respawn is the next lean developmer
something a massive, bloated, system can't compete with nowadays
lusty grotto
im glad respawn got their time to shine honestly
old night
OH
lusty grotto
getting fucked over titanfall
lusty grotto
jesus i hate you
narrow abyss
Juicy
lusty grotto
gz
stoic summit
oof
chilly brook
BFA as a whole is basically “how can we make our jobs as developers easy regardless of the cost to gameplay and how can we also make players play more?”
sand egret
but yeah, I actually expect to see a big shift in how they develop going into 8.2
like not true at all
chilly brook
It’s pretty true
sand egret
and a very very skewed view of development tbh
lusty grotto
i actually got those same boots on my chest Film, just not TF
stoic summit
"lets fuck up the GCD so we can revert it and pretend like we are heroes"
lusty grotto
yeah the logic behind the whole gcd thing was kind of weird, i dont understand why worrying about 1 shot macros is a "thing"
old night
also I posted the Dark iron npc mog in tmog if you guys wanted to see
chilly brook
GCD changes was essentially pandering
And as a result also making CDs easier to balance
lusty grotto
you wanna have people not make 1 shot macros, make the offensive cd 1 thing only
chilly brook
Removing the ability to gear swap in m+ was just one less factor to worry about in balance
wary gyro
Putting all the defensives/movement stuff on it is just dumb
sand egret
1-shot macros were only a part of the bigger problem
stoic summit
duuuuude I used to literally have 5 gearsets macrod on my numpad on my enhance shaman in legion lol
chilly brook
Removing tiers was another way to cut down balance
stoic summit
for different leggo setups for trash bosses etc
lusty grotto
i mean, how far can you go to dumb down the game for the average player?
look at what that got them
sand egret
they created a situation where you require a player to process a bunch of information, crucial information, clearly and instantly
wary gyro
Wpvp has never and will never be balanced they shouldnt make major changes based on it
chilly brook
There’s so many changes that directly affect balance that it’s pretty clear why they did it
sand egret
they decided to slow down the game as a whole, to add more deliberation to each action
lusty grotto
that has been the situation since vanilla blade
why change it now?
people still play regardless
chilly brook
Look if you struggled to understand the concept that the more CDs you use at the same time the better then you were never going to be a high tier player
lusty grotto
then look at what happened with BFA
sand egret
what they're struggling with now, is what skills don't match with the press
lusty grotto
its an MMO, some complexity will always exist
chilly brook
There’s no deliberation in the actions
unkempt fox
Hey guys, can i improve anything for raiding in terms of traits?
sand egret
tbh it was laid out pretty well Nim in a recent post. Specifically with the Shaman example
lusty grotto
nah that's good Vovchique for progression
stoic summit
is shaman a good example? they ruined enhance, said they were going to fix it, then didn't really do shit but tweak some numbers they could have hotfixed in months earlier
chilly brook
No what they’re struggling with now, is the results of what happens when you fundamentally change the design of a game 6 years after it was released and then strip out all of the crutches you’ve put in to address the problems over the years that resulted because of the design shift
sand egret
as you have spells that fight with you that our outside of your control: like needing to use Charge during a knockback and then you have spells that are meant to be "moments" like Ascendence
unkempt fox
@lusty grotto tyvm i supposed 1st BFI > 3d IF
sand egret
one way is to take it off the gcd again, sure. but rather they want to make the press of that button to mean more. that's why they're looking to frontload the button's impact
oblique garnet
@unkempt fox you could change lifespeed and bloodsiphon to OP but thats just personal preferences
lusty grotto
that's for more dps
sand egret
@stoic summit the shaman example was a specific spell talked about by Ion
chilly brook
More front-loading is less of what we need
narrow nest
What pawnstring do you guys use for prot?
lusty grotto
we dont
stoic summit
@sand egret but then there are things like prot pally light of the protector that feel useless on the GCD. it should be a talent you use to heal people in clutch moments, but because it is on GCD it becomes something you can never clutch very well
lusty grotto
read the icy veins guide @narrow nest
sand egret
that's a great point
lusty grotto
we don't use pawn
wary gyro
Lotp is the worst on the gcd
sand egret
and something they're probably dealing with now.
stoic summit
its why i didn't level my paladin
chilly brook
Removing choice isn’t making choice more impactful
sand egret
like that one I wouldn't be surprised did get clipped off
chilly brook
It’s pretty simple
lusty grotto
lotp/enraged regen were given the gcd treatment with IP because they were considered self heal tank moments
sand egret
but LotP is different than say, popping Wings
chilly brook
GCD changes were just a failure as a whole
stoic summit
i just feel like the people who declared the changes cannot actually play the game, because if they did they would have instantly felt how awful the changes were
or maybe they did play but are just awful players so didn't realize the impact
chilly brook
Everyone was wild about getting IP back off the gcd
sand egret
or maybe they realized that not everyone feels that way?
I didn't mind IP on the gcd
at all
lusty grotto
i feel like blizz should try to get people that play their game to come back instead of trying to attract hordes of fortnite players by making several things simple
sand egret
was it different, yes?
chilly brook
I bet you they’d feel even better if Avatar and Demo were off it again as well
sand egret
honestly this is all circling around the biggest problem which they are literally solving now
lack of iteration periods
chilly brook
Like shit came off the gcd a long ass time ago for a reason to begin with
lusty grotto
i don't think it has anything to do with iterations
chilly brook
No it’s a result of losing focus
sand egret
do you know how long it takes for a change to go through the WoW machine?
chilly brook
It’s really simple
lusty grotto
how are they iterating around a design goal?
lusty grotto
i mean i iterate over Development cycles
chilly brook
Wow had a very cohesive and defined vision and goal up until Wrath
lusty grotto
you can't iterate over "lets just remove weird jumpy dps buffs because jimmy the fortnite player won't ever do that"
sand egret
no you iterate over
chilly brook
Then starting with cata it was “we need to change our philosophy”
chilly brook
And it’s literally been downhill since then
lusty grotto
but why make the change in the first place
that's a design problem
you can't iterate over those
lusty grotto
direction of their design, i guess i should say
but that's not a problem at all, is what im saying
chilly brook
Because “people on Reddit complained that they can’t parse high because pressing several buttons in 2 seconds is hard”
sand egret
you don't think it is
lusty grotto
how did they come up with the idea that it is a problem?
wary gyro
The stuff was taken off the gcd and just left like that literally 13 years before this it has nothing to with design iterations at that point
chilly brook
Exactly @wary gyro
stoic summit
i just assumed the gcd thing was a server performance issue tbh
chilly brook
Literally has nothing to do with iterations
sand egret
it could have been a bunch of things
chilly brook
It was literally a design decision in an attempt make balancing easier in pvp under the guise of making choice more impactful
sand egret
but the ability to iterate ON THE GAME (gotta read, people) is a larger, systemic issue that they have due to the unique state of their development machine.
this happens all the time in studios
wary gyro
Also tbh it seems like you are pulling reasons for blizzard out of thin air rights now and just acting as though they are true
sand egret
i'm just speaking from experience as a game developer
lusty grotto
right griff
modern brook
Moving stuff onto the global cd isnt regression
sand egret
and what kinda stuff goes into these types of changes
that aren't considered by the players, as it doesn't impact them
reef fulcrum
Do you think there's something wrong with not having versatility at all? I do have 25%haste (without ITF buff) tho (402 ilvl)
lusty grotto
no
chilly brook
This is literally a symptom of the transition of the game from an MMORPG to an MMO-action game
sand egret
like 0% Mando?
modern brook
🤷 more stats > specific stats
sand egret
cuz that's kinda impressive
reef fulcrum
0%
sand egret
tbh lol
reef fulcrum
It's not even showing in the stat sheet
sand egret
you literally have no gear with vers? that's some RNG right there
chilly brook
Blizz no longer wants to have any real rpg elements
sand egret
i mean it's an awkward skew of stats mate but luckily we don't have any crazy outlying secondaries
chilly brook
We’ve seen more and more loss of it over the years
plush pagoda
what are main stats?
lusty grotto
STR STAM AGI INT
stoic summit
ilvl
modern brook
i mean in fairness
modern brook
RP is the worst part of like every part of the game.
reef fulcrum
Link to my armory
lusty grotto
yikes quel'thalas
quartz pond
as long as u have the progression systems u have now
reef fulcrum
Hehe
quartz pond
its an RPG
sand egret
you are quite actually the least versatile warrior around
lusty grotto
you'll get versa soon enough
modern brook
thats a pretty dumb definition of an RPG imo
small kraken
is siphoning enchant something gtg now on warriors ? sees alot of them using that insted of quick
chilly brook
I mean in all fairness, I felt like it was a better game when we actually had stats we had to meet
lusty grotto
memes @small kraken
sand egret
define "a lot"
modern brook
"there are levels so its rp" seems way too vague to be meaningful
chilly brook
@quartz pond mobas have a progression system and they’re not RPGs
lusty grotto
some M+ warrior did it, rest of the sheep followed. It's not a thing, it's a dumb enchant
stoic summit
got eem
quartz pond
MOBA isnt a real definition for anything
stoic summit
??
modern brook
thats just not true lol
chilly brook
RTS’s have levels and stat sheets
chilly brook
Mobile
lusty grotto
what
stoic summit
lmao
chilly brook
This man said mobile
modern brook
m = multiplayer lol
chilly brook
Lmao
modern brook
dont u have a phone griff
stoic summit
i'm literally dying
chilly brook
I can’t even
quartz pond
brain fart
chilly brook
Are you by chance from Ragnaros?
quartz pond
point still stands
chilly brook
Because your logic seems like Ragnaros strat logic
quartz pond
nice argument
lusty grotto
MOBA = Dota2, League of Legends, HotS
modern brook
Battle Royals are an evolution of Mobas in the same way mobas are an evolution of rTSs
chilly brook
It wasn’t an argument
lusty grotto
(i suspect you know, but just in case)
sand egret
@quartz pond technically, a BR is a rule-set that is a FFA. So Fortnite is a FFA MOBA 😃
lusty grotto
eh?!
quartz pond
MOBA is still vague as shit and a terrible definition that riot tried to push and succeded
modern brook
?????????????
sand egret
eh
quartz pond
the other pillar of an RPG
modern brook
thas just not true
quartz pond
loot
sand egret
MOBA was a term since starcraft
modern brook
^
sand egret
when it was born
modern brook
Aeons of Strife fam
quartz pond
that RIOT pushed to mainstream?
chilly brook
God help him
sand egret
dota did
chilly brook
DOTA
lusty grotto
dota 1
chilly brook
Aka WC3
wary gyro
It was fairly mainstream when dota first happened
quartz pond
🤦
lusty grotto
which is where Riot's dev and IceFrog (dota2) came from
quartz pond
cuz dota had the scale of league
sand egret
Riot, by nature of their success, popularized it yes. PUBG did the same with BR
steel mauve
Every one called dota 1 a moba though...
lusty grotto
yeah but popularity isn't what we're discussing
sand egret
i know, but there's partial truth to his statement
lusty grotto
i think that's beside the point
quartz pond
discussing who set the trend as the norm
sand egret
either way, this is a wack convo for protection
lusty grotto
the genre was still done
sand egret
im off to lunch
chilly brook
There’s partial truth in a lot of things
modern brook
Theres a distinct line between who set the trend as the norm and who brought it to the eyes of the general public
wary gyro
The term was established and adopted with dota 1 riot just kept using the same term
quartz pond
riot couldnt find a better one and stuck with that
lusty grotto
are all phones iphones?
chilly brook
I’m pretty sure it’s fairly easy to tell what games are mobas and which aren’t
modern brook
We're def getting #off-topic though
lusty grotto
step 1: has lanes, step 2: has heroes, step 3: has player progression within the scope of the match
quartz pond
when i got here ppl were discussing what an rpg is
modern brook
like this isnt even the conversation that isnt relevent to #protection that we were having
quartz pond
so its too far gone xD
chilly brook
I mean why come up with a different term if a term already exists and is accepted
modern brook
My guilds still stroking my ego about Prot damage
so im staying prot for another week
chilly brook
WoW is basically a pve moba at this point, the only difference is the gear is random drop and not purchased. Change my mind
modern brook
I'm going to instead let you have a bad and wrong opinion
chilly brook
Lol
quartz pond
ur looking for
modern brook
WoW is a 3rd person fps skyrim port and thinking otherwise proves ur a big idiot
quartz pond
theme park MMO vs sandbox MMO
chilly brook
@modern brook u right
No that really has nothing to do with theme park vs sandbox
Completely different topic based on how content is presented
quartz pond
then idk what ur trying to get at with the pve moba that happens to also have pvp
modern brook
i think it was a joke man
chilly brook
It’s partially a joke
But it’s also not
Class design is much closer to a moba than it ever has been
quartz pond
rly?
modern brook
if by that u mean we have like 4 buttons
I'd agree. I think you're comparing apples and oranges though
really isnt a convo worth having
chilly brook
And you’d be pretty correct
modern brook
partially
chilly brook
Yikes
quartz pond
elder scrolls online tried to build on the moba design for their classes
doesnt seem that close to what we have in wow to me
final mist
🤔
lusty grotto
👢 🍵 👏 more bootyclaps boys!
final mist
Take it to #off-topic if you wanna continue it
quartz pond
u know #off-topic is reserved for cojo shitposting
btw it was u who managed the spell reflect sheet in legion right?
for dungeon content
vocal nimbus
Thyme and cosmo i think
cloud hound
turbid nest
By the way, I made a claim yesterday about the Opulence helm HP pot gem not being affected by Alchemist Stone. I was wrong, my bad.
warm plinth
@modern brook I had heard they only extended the duration sub-mythic
mental scarab
You w8 until the cast something and leap run SR
lethal spade
What kind of stat priority do you guys go by? I started stacking haste and versatility like alot of guides say but it seems I'm much more squishy
sand egret
ilvl
best stat
actual answer: due to the fact that most secondaries are relatively close, we don't generally seek out a particular stat. Rather, we try to get the most stats, which usually comes with ilvl (sockets, rings, add exceptions)
lusty grotto
Ilvl > all, please check out the icy veins guide @lethal spade
and only the icy veins guide
sand egret
your squishiness, no offense, may be a result of your play. Luckily, we can help with that. The icy-veins guide is a great primer.
lusty grotto
if you feel squishier its most likely because you're not using highest ilvl, there's no way to feel squishier by secondaries alone
agreed Blade
safe oriole
lusty grotto
ok just like 3 lines up
lethal spade
Thanks guys maybe I'm just being cheap with my CDs I'll check out that guide
safe oriole
any thoughts on wich one to use?
lusty grotto
lusty grotto
that was like 5 lines up
safe oriole
oh
steel mauve
Dont hold your cd's thats what anger management is for
steel mauve
They are there to be used and cutting their cd in half basically
warm plinth
When sockets come into play, add stamina+stat 1+stat 2 on both items. Add 40 to the one with the socket. Whichever one has more stats wins.
safe oriole
yes 5 ilevel difference, exact same item
warm plinth
stamina+strength+stat 1+stat 2 rather
sand egret
i go haste
naive panther
I have a belt that is 5 ilvl lower but socket and I take it because it also haste haste where the other doesn’t.
steel mauve
Gloves ilvl would win over socket
plush pagoda
you dont have to answer the question someone else will lmao
sand egret
ahem: its on the icy veins guide
steel mauve
sand egret
there's an actual "Gems, Enchants," section
steel mauve
This channel isnt here to answer questions that are in the guide, its here to answer questions that arent
lusty grotto
guy literally has been asking questions like that since yesterday
chilly brook
@lusty grotto is it me or did it suddenly get 5 degrees cooler with all that shade?
warm plinth
Why do people get pissed like folks asking guide questions in #protection is a new thing? It's not ever going to change; either ignore the questions, use the emoji, or answer politely and direct them to the guide next time.
warm plinth
Literally every class and spec have the same problem. You'd think you'd be desensitized to it by now.
warm plinth
I do, because it doesn't bother me XD
chilly brook
Even more reason to be amazed that people don’t check the FAQ
steel mauve
Because next time will always happen with the same people, as stated same person asking questions that are in the guide constantly
sick sentinel
and for the love of god can we explain dps versus survivability relative to the guide, in the case of DPS the 5ilvl lower socketed piece is superior, in the case of survivability the higher ilvl piece is superior
warm plinth
And tbh even after this, he's still going to ask in #protection next time
So it's just wasted breath
sand egret
Nim, I think you understand my hell a little bit, as a FTUE/tooltip designer. No one reads shit 😦
chilly brook
I’m not even sure that the 5ilvl lower piece is superior for DPS
lusty grotto
don't promote bad habits imo
steel mauve
That and the top pin in the general channel explains a lot to people who want to get upset when treated with disdain for constantly asking questions that are in pins or the guide
sand egret
"YOU DIDNT TELL ME HOW TO SHOOT"
looks at a whole tutorial you skipped on shooting
grumbles
lusty grotto
it doesn't matter if it happens every minute of every day
old night
415 Alchemist, 400 Jes with a socket, 385 Rezans, and a 385 diamond reflecting prism. What should a progression loadout be as well as a DPS loadout
steel mauve
For dps ilvl will always win no matter what
trail whale
yeah taking up even more messages complaining and arguing about whether basic questions should or shouldn't be answered is 100% better than just letting someone type a quick response
steel mauve
On a main stat piece of gear with str
old night
prog I've been doing diamond and rezans
lusty grotto
it totally is @trail whale
steel mauve
Survival is in question when it comes to sockets
sick sentinel
cbf doing this again
sand egret
@old night I'd consider Jes's for prog
chilly brook
If you’re going to make a claim back it up at least
sand egret
esp in raids
sick sentinel
it's borderline dailyu
old night
jes and rezan?
sick sentinel
i cant be fucked sorry