DC doesnt stack well for damage
#protection
modern pulsar
Was looking at the scimitar. Didnt know if going from 6 to 12 would be to many buttons.
wicked ginkgo
thanks thats what i thought. seen a few high raiderio players with 2 of it so thought i would ask
stark sage
if you are going for max damage, it would probably be something like 1x DC + 3x TC + 2 random dps traits
like rezans or thunderous or something
bom is good in m+ though
wicked ginkgo
gotcha thanks
uneven mason
@stark sage iirc Sense tested it and 3x BoM 3x DC was a DPS gain, but not enough to be worth sacrificing the dual function traits
uneven mason
too true
stark sage
there is diminishing returns
and im sure its better for aoe vs stuff like rezans and thunderous
candid ledge
Opinions on Opulence trinket? I find it very good on my paladin, how's it for warriors?
wary gyro
It's probably the best trink for survival atm
strong hill
Pretty sweet. Can’t complain.
daring marlin
I have 2x BoM, 1x DC and 2x BFI
Just the traits I happened to get
Booo asserite
engi helm no bom 😦
sand egret
i have that exact same setup
but with one more thing...which I can't remember
pretty sure its low-budget BoM
ah i lied, it's a IF
subtle idol
Is there a Trinkett list for Defensive Trinketts? getting mixed info from icy veins/wowhead.
If there is a pin sorry i may have over looked it.
reef hull
hey boys i ve 2 questions :). For mm+, prot war or Bdk ? and second question, are u using a macro with ignore pain
vocal nimbus
- If you have to ask it doesnt matter what you end up playing 2. No
uneven mason
@subtle idol best item level, generally any str trinket with a 2ndary (proc or on use) will do for tanking in general
sand egret
well 1) you're in the Prot channel.... and 2) hell naw
uneven mason
Rezan's stands out as being a very strong haste trinket
and the diamond from the new raid is very very good if you can get one
rocky ledge
Guys, can you reset stacks solo on Champions (1st boss) with good SR timing? If so, how?
subtle idol
Thanks Mactier, was trying to choose from a 400 siege/ 385 jens and a 375 rezans
uneven mason
Not with SR @rocky ledge
well not JUST with SR
you have to leap out and get some distance
is this on mythic?
reef hull
give me a reason to not macro shield block with ignore pain 😃 ? pls
reef hull
okok 😃
uneven mason
because it costs more rage than you shold be spending at any given time
strong hill
On mythic ? What @uneven mason says , go for a walk
sand egret
but seriously, a lot of what makes a prot good, is thier choice when to use those abilities
rocky ledge
All difficulties. I main healer for progression, but want to tank alt raids
sand egret
macro'ing them completely defeats that
vocal nimbus
Pop SR when theres less than 5 seconds left on the debuff @rocky ledge
uneven mason
Its harder to drop stacks on Normal/heroic/LFR
vocal nimbus
You can get to this less than 5 sec by kiting or during the mythic only cast thing
wary gyro
Tfw boss is harder on heroic than mythic
subtle idol
Think ill go with the 400 engine and the 385 jens ty for the help fellas
sand egret
@reef hull most of learning prot is knowing how to spend your rage. You really don't want to macro that.
uneven mason
and hope an add
rocky ledge
I see. Thanks.
uneven mason
doesn't decide to nuke your ass and ruin your luck
So what I do on HC
is I leap
to a warlock gate
and then intercept
like a full square
around the room
big D kite
rocky ledge
Lol
uneven mason
only need to clear once on HC
rocky ledge
Yeah.
uneven mason
going to convince the guild to just burn boss next week
so I don't have to clear atall
but yeah, the alternative is
have a Arms warrior
or HDD
HDH~
taunt and defensive up
to drop stacks
Or, don't need to clear until adds die
during phase change
so your co tank can come take it off of you for 12s or so
strong hill
I screwed up this week and went back in and refreshed. The other tank asked “ want me to taunt ? “ “ nah I got this “ I ran out and stayed out a little longer the 2nd time. Coasted to the finish 😊
rocky ledge
Try this strat my friends did week one... burn the 2 caster mobs on pull with range and like 1 melee per for kicks. Then you OT the blinding light guy and Zerg the boss. Add ticks down to like half and is easy to keep from healing w/o priests alive. P2 you kill add and right back on boss. If you need to tank swap to reset, you are now dealing with a single add.
rocky ledge
I mean you could just have the OT taunt for 5 secs then do your SR instead of flying around the room like a silly person- pissing off your melee dps
neon tangle
@uneven mason I keep trying to get them to just zerg it
I finished the fight with 28 stacks last time I think
rocky ledge
The AoE nuke does literally nothing. With only a single DR from pally 20% the raid got hit for like 80k? Maybe 100? It’s nothing.
rocky ledge
Also... got the Mekkatorque trinket and a decent Rezan’s today and tested in a +10 Waycrest.... this was a juicy reaping pack
neon tangle
spicy
wary gyro
Only 173k?
rocky ledge
Was holding over 200 for most, then dipped cleaning up casters
uneven mason
gotta bundle better
inner trail
223k hps?
uneven mason
total healing
wary gyro
I'm not mad just disappointed
inner trail
ah 😄
uneven mason
he runs healing and damage done (the important numbers)
rocky ledge
Was a pug. And group didn’t stack well
inner trail
very nice
rocky ledge
I was running Knot + either alch stone or butcher block, but I have like 1100 crit as is, the extra haste feels real good.
naive panther
Anything about prot war excel on conclave or mekka? Almost got conclave on the dh. My leaps are nice for swaps without buffed bosses and getting back into the bird.
signal plover
naive panther
I mean I can tank paku at 40 stacks until he gets the 15% buff the. We do swaps. But otherwise it seems easy
Had everything down except last boss last 20%
sturdy notch
guys Synaptic Spark Capacitor trait reduce damage from bossed ?
lavish oracle
I mean...you're just gonna take way less damage on a prot warrior, not much else to it. We can't really cheese any mechanics, if that's what you're asking @naive panther
rapid tide
You can consider spell reflect 'cheese' for some mechanics
Like reflecting the grong dot etc
Not on Conclave or Mekka tho
lavish oracle
The only thing you can reflect on Mekka and Conclave is the buster cannon afaik
And I don't think it actually reflects the DoT
lavish oracle
It does stop it from applying though, which would be kinda nice if we ever had to worry about that mechanic at all
But it's probably a contender with Creeping Rot for "most telegraphed attack in the entire game"
naive panther
Yes
wary gyro
I dont understand how anyone gets hit by it
lavish oracle
Probably just not paying attention, tbh
rapid tide
It's the result of pressing spell reflect randomly somewhere in the tank combo
"hard work and effort" my ass 😄
modern brook
fuk u nerd>:(
rapid tide
:^)
uneven mason
@lavish oracle reflecting BUster Cannon is good for some Lulz, to quote my raidleader "Did you just spell reflect that, what the fuck?"
cause he was a DK that ripped on warriors all throughout Uldir prog and now warriors are like, allstar class
cyan creek
Why do people use Bloster over Never Surrender?
strong hill
@uneven mason going to do that next week 😊
uneven mason
@cyan creek Skyhold.gg Marok gives a breakdown of all our talents
and why they're bad when they're bad
on icy veins too
and wowhead
naive panther
@lavish oracle thanks that’s basically all I was wondering. I’m assuming the final phase of mekka with prot is a joke just like it is on heroic. So I’ll consider prot just for that if guild needs the help to get a kill.
spice crescent
is having x3 iron fort bad?
uneven mason
but Squeek needless to say, its because NS doesn't scale very well, nor does it increase the "per instance" absorb amount thus it is not more likely to save your life than a normal IP
yes
stacking BS is pretty amazing
and lastly Squeek, Bolster is JUST THAT GOOD
misty crater
For Iron Fort and Brace For Impact, they say they increase your 'Block'. Is this block chance or the amount of damage blocked?
Or something else entirely
low lynx
is it better to have 2x brace for impact for m+ or 1x callous reprisal 1x brace for impact ?
uneven mason
CR is good in M+ I'd say BFI is stronger in Tyrannical weeks, CR stronger on fort weeks
since one is ST DPS gain the other is AE
both work to mitigate damage (BFI is stronger for mitigation, but you cast less SS during AE packs)
modern brook
3x blood psort gives ~abit under 3% leech and ~15k extra shield iirc
at 415
Bolster = 60s cdr on one of our large cooldowns, + 15 extra seconds of free SB uptime during which you can build up cahrges again
w/ AM our 3 minute cooldown is closer to 90-80s
and its a stronger cooldown now too.
I say 2x BFI is better than bFI CR
iLvL over everything
CR is super underwelming outside of M+ trash pulls and pretty whatever there
If you're going for pure AoE damage DC is a better stack
hell IF is probably better techncially
uneven mason
yes IF is better, but that wasn't the choice 😄
oblique garnet
1x CR 1x BFI will probably bring overall defensives up to par in m+ moreso than 2x BFI
buoyant rapids
any good recommendation on a recent video of tanking mythic dungeons as prot?
neon tangle
@naive panther Last phase I was getting jacked up by magic damage IIRC
Especially if you let those stacks get too high...
Our 10% wipe last night was me getting a bomb then getting gibbed 😦
OT too slow at taunting
oblique garnet
on mekka?
robust bronze
Darkmoon(355) or jes' Howler(370) or Gore-Crusted Butcher's Block(390) for survaivability?
neon tangle
@oblique garnet yeah
oblique garnet
mythic?
uneven mason
What fight?
neon tangle
3rd phase is fairly hectic
uneven mason
Mkka
uneven mason
Yeah, working on him right now
Last phase is lulz fest for me
cause I watch everyone panic and get stepped on
from that last wormhole
uneven mason
but yeah you basically taunt kite Mekka around the room
otherwise he just starts wrecking you
we were taunting at 6
because the 30% haste
neon tangle
we 100% need to taunt earlier
uneven mason
taunt at 8=9 phrase 1
naive panther
Ok didn’t think about magic being an issue. My co tank was too slow on taunting that phase as well. Need to keep stacks as low as possible whereas rest of the fight on heroic I can go 20+
oblique garnet
you dont need to move alot in mekka
uneven mason
usually
oblique garnet
but like you can get away with minimal movements
uneven mason
can ROP them as well
oblique garnet
yeah and since sadbox plays dk he can grip them into good spots for root
neon tangle
that's what I'm here for
a good firm grip
That dudes melee hurts too for DK
between that and magic I'm taking 100k a hit
oblique garnet
its nature damage so it hurts warriors aswell
it gets pretty spicy when the other tank isnt doing the bot fast enough
lusty grotto
is it meme time yet?
oblique garnet
nim im rerolling to monk sorry
oblique garnet
no
oblique garnet
uhh
primal crypt
BrM or bust
lusty grotto
its not ok if you say BrM
primal crypt
amirite @oblique garnet
lusty grotto
good lord
oblique garnet
i wanted a tank that i can turn my brain off while doing alt raids
primal crypt
what you think bois, should I swap?
primal crypt
better off keeping the crusade for the extra haste
steel mauve
most likely you wont even notice a difference
lusty grotto
need that clap crit
oblique garnet
yamo youre asking wrong channel i heard youre fury now so go with the crit haste
lusty grotto
wew
primal crypt
It says PROT
oblique garnet
im not even allowed to reroll into dps :<
primal crypt
XDDDDD
daring marlin
arms
primal crypt
PROT
daring marlin
Good meme
lusty grotto
dont ruin this guilfart
shhh
so i have a pic of lord sco for meme friday
but im not sure if meme time started
old night
so a buddy of a buddy hit me up on bnet to help explain to him ignore pain
how i feel explaining clipping and the whole abosrb * 1.3
lusty grotto
rofl
daring marlin
LOL
old night
its actually kinda entertaining
it made me realize how much we actually instinctively know in our roto vs other tanks
like a lot of "if this and this and this then X but not Y and Z"
old night
I run khakhan's which doesnt have the clip notifier so I have to manually think about it but it REALLY isn't too bad as i usually ballpark it
uneven mason
I took Marok's and modified it so it works for my 40IQ brain
"I was like, NUBAR, NO NEED MATH, JUST COLOR"
warm plinth
Come on Mac, don't short yourself. It's at least 45
warm plinth
All you need to be able to do 💪
lusty grotto
I found him in another game
old night
all i did was just hover over IP, write the number down, multiply *1.3 and thats my on cast absorb
track the active mitigation and if I know im going to clip i dont cast
i like to take 15 steps when I could take 1 as you can already tell
i has big brain
neon tangle
implying that IP ever last long enough to clip it
warm plinth
I just look at how big the absorb indicator on the bar is
lusty grotto
even in meme time we are discussing prot, im so proud
warm plinth
Big indicator = don't cast; small indicator = fuck it, cast
old night
you probably love stella artois
old night
the race has been over for a few days
and i still get asked by guildies and friends "HOW YOU LIKING THOSE PROT BUFFS? ALL T HAT DAMAGE"
bruh we've been like this the whole time
lusty grotto
heh
yeah i usually have to say something
"but our dmg has been like this since BFA released"
and they usually go "SURE BRO, SURE"
neon tangle
It was really that 5% EHP we were missing
old night
i forgot who it was
old night
but some dude on here was screaming and raving about how IP off the GCD was a terrible idea
to the point where marok came in and told him he was wrong and he still denied it
lusty grotto
i can think of a few trolls
old night
and then flopped the math in discord
lusty grotto
yeah
old night
remember that?
old night
man that kid was annoying. always negative about everything. its like, why even play warr then man
ya
neon tangle
Is it me?
old night
nah
neon tangle
I'm always negative about everything
old night
you're at least not the dude that DM'd me asking if I was a girl and if I looked like my discord pic
I told @sand egret about that one
that was hilarious
neon tangle
In my headcannon tofu is absolutely a kpop girl
I am guilty though of constantly saying "BUFFS TO NUMBERS WON'T FIX WARRIOR IN M+"
"ITS AN ISSUE OF UTILITY"
neon tangle
"YOU CAN'T JUST BUFF SB AND BASE ARMOR WITHOUT MAKING WARRIOR WILDLY OP, THE MASTERY IS TOO POWERFUL"
lusty grotto
the whole IP off gcd thing
neon tangle
Blizzard: "Hold my potion"
lusty grotto
was kind of around the fact that it made it easier again to play war
not easy easy but slightly easier
and i kind of agreed with that
but what's done is done
lavish oracle
I mean prot is dominating the top key leaderboards right now you weren't necessarily wrong @neon tangle
neon tangle
This is true
I guess I just didn't expect blizz to be chill with addressing the problem in that way
lavish oracle
and by prot I mostly mean glickz 'cause they're a beast
neon tangle
I'm curious if warr's going to get some TC nerfs
old night
i doubt it
lavish oracle
I would expect a nerf to UF if anything
lusty grotto
ohhh found it film
old night
UF?
lusty grotto
it was about popping LS right off the bat
lavish oracle
Unstoppable Force @old night
lusty grotto
because it was "better"
neon tangle
the talent or w/e, kinda blows my mind that they gave warrior something as good as BoM
lusty grotto
that was Lova
neon tangle
when they were ALREADY blowning other tanks away on AoE
lusty grotto
im pretty sure that was intended
lusty grotto
going back to a previous discussion
old night
granted I can write an essay on how much I hate IP
lusty grotto
its likely blizz sees our dmg as our "utility"
old night
but for what we have I'm okay with it
lusty grotto
but that's fucking probematic, cause if they do nerf it... we're fucked
lavish oracle
They need to fuckin' give the other specs actual utility though, lol
lusty grotto
you mean besides grip and rop?
lavish oracle
I meant for warrior specs
lavish oracle
It's absurd how much more utility literally any other melee spec brings by comparison
and they still kill Fury and Arms on damage
lusty grotto
yup
neon tangle
@lusty grotto I guess we'll have to see, warrior -does- have a bunch of shit that other classes don't
neon tangle
fear, good AoE stun, leap, etc
neon tangle
I mean vs. other tanks
lavish oracle
Fear is incredibly situational
Like 99% of the time, I'm using it as a tertiary interrupt
neon tangle
That's a lot of grip too 😛
lusty grotto
im ok with having lax utility as long as we pump out marginally better damage if anything
a trade-off if you will
neon tangle
Oh fear break, SR
We have "utility"
Utility is relative to the meta and the dungeons though
lavish oracle
SR is really just more damage
daring marlin
muh utility
neon tangle
I guess the question is whether blizz considers tank dps something that should be "balanced" or something that is part of the whole kit
lusty grotto
we have no BRez, no displacing abilities, our slows are on the low end
neon tangle
@lusty grotto I mean, DK/Druid have brez, nobody else does
Druids aren't exactly "good" even with one : P
daring marlin
druid has LOADS of utility
neon tangle
and shield interupt, and stuff
lavish oracle
@neon tangle I assume the disparity between our damage and utility is intentional, they cited it as a reason for removing shockwave from arms and fury last expansion; So our damage is likely viewed as part of our kit.
daring marlin
tbh people undersell shockwave and int shout
neon tangle
^^^
lusty grotto
im ok with what they provide
right now
really dont need much else
but that's only cause our dmg is so good
daring marlin
When I’m on not warrior I miss both
lavish oracle
Paladins also have a decent slow
neon tangle
@lavish oracle I don't really know if I'd look at their decisions about a dps spec for their philosophy on tank dps this xpac
lavish oracle
At the very least it shows that it's something they consider while balancing classes
neon tangle
I take it more as "blizz wants to balance utility between dps classes"
sand egret
tbh i wouldnt be shocked if our damage takes a hit soon
lusty grotto
Our mitigation is also amazing so..
sand egret
well, let me rephrase: I wouldnt be shocked if tanks get a damage pass soon
neon tangle
This would not surprise me, sometime in 8.0 blizz said "we're looking at tank damage overall"
lusty grotto
Hmmm...
sand egret
and like dps is universal, which is hard to compare to typical situational utility
lavish oracle
I assume they'll bring us down but I don't think it'll be as big as people expect
sand egret
i bet UF will go to 75%
lavish oracle
That's my expectation
sand egret
with the same cdr
neon tangle
I mean if nothing else maybe they just wanted to let warrior hang out a bit broken
lavish oracle
Eh, I think the CDR will stay the same
neon tangle
so that people would try it
daring marlin
meh
sand egret
they’re prob iterating it now, it just doesnt seem that pressing in the meantime
sand egret
because our damage scales
neon tangle
@daring marlin warrior on average is WAY ahead of the pack even on ST in BfD
lavish oracle
A 25% nerf to UF damage is probably what, like an ~8% nerf to our overall damage?
sand egret
tclap is ~40% of damage in my dungeons
chilly brook
Again
lavish oracle
With 40% uptime on avatar
chilly brook
I’d be very wary about a UF nerf
sand egret
as long as the cdr component goes down it’s pretty innocupus
sand egret
innocuous? man i cant spell
chilly brook
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again
Uf isn’t broken
And if they wanted to touch it at all, they’d have to essentially rebalance the entire class
sand egret
thats not true
neon tangle
I don't see how that's true at all
chilly brook
It is though
sand egret
not at all
chilly brook
Damage is threat
sand egret
which we have a) in spades
lavish oracle
Our threat gen is already through the roof during Avatar
chilly brook
If they nerf UF they would actually have to rebalance our threat gen as far as single target is concerned
sand egret
not really
lavish oracle
We never lose threat on single target, why would that matter?
chilly brook
Take a look at your tclap damage on a single target fight
neon tangle
@chilly brook Other tanks do less on ST, they still manage to hold threat
Shit, guardian druids hold threat on ST
sand egret
the extra 25% of threat via the damage increase in TClaps during Avatar isnt like the only thing allowing us to hols aggro
simply not a thing
chilly brook
I’m not saying it’s the only thing allowing us to hold aggro
sand egret
which btw can easily be addressed
chilly brook
But even our single target damage is heavily tilted towards tclap
sand egret
by increasing the threat multiplier on Shield Slam
lavish oracle
I have literally never lost threat in a single target fight, I frequently have to hold off on avatar at the start of a pull or else I'll accidentally grab the boss
sand egret
no redesign necessary
lavish oracle
I don't see the issue with a reduction in our single target threat
daring marlin
@neon tangle what you said is completely untrue
Prot is doing well in BfD on cleave
not ST
neon tangle
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21#class=Tanks&boss=2271&dataset=90 <- on cleave they are WACKY
daring marlin
Tell it to the paladins ahead of them
quartz pond
Taunt increases ur threat gen though
sand egret
taunt is a constant Bado, so not really factoring that thing on a per tank look
quartz pond
It fixed all ur problems in st
daring marlin
sand egret
but a solid point nonetheless
daring marlin
🤔
quartz pond
So I don't see why it's not important
How did other tanks hold aggro vs prot warriors In antorus
They used taunt
daring marlin
Look at mekka too
quartz pond
So there isn't actually a single target threat problem
sand egret
this is about NOT having to use that
neon tangle
@daring marlin 10 out of the top 20 are warriors
sand egret
but you’re not wrong
chilly brook
neon tangle
Even if a pally -can- show up
sand egret
it’s just why I didnt mention it
daring marlin
show up
chilly brook
Yea guys touching our top ability in st wouldn’t hurt us at all
daring marlin
Taking the top you mean?
sand egret
Griff
daring marlin
on the pure ST fights?
lavish oracle
It would hurt us...that is the point of a nerf. It wouldn't break the class if it were tuned correctly
sand egret
but not dependant
lavish oracle
👢 🍵 👏
sand egret
they can literally just increase the threat multiplier (like Heroic Throw has) on TClap by 25%+
and there’d be no difference in threat
chilly brook
It’s 26% of his single target damage
neon tangle
also fun fact, the #1 pally completely avoided beastial throws
#5 is a warrior that took some
daring marlin
^
sand egret
because you think nerfing damage means unavoidable threat nerfs
sand egret
when in reality they can be independently adjusted
chilly brook
I mean a nerf in damage is a direct threat nerf....
daring marlin
badochas lol
chilly brook
And would still not really solve anything
sand egret
duce
quartz pond
Just wondering
lavish oracle
Our threat gen has never been a problem and a 5-10% nerf to our overall damage won't change that
sand egret
listen
chilly brook
Because there’s no problem
daring marlin
The point is he made a definitive statement that prot is SO FAR AHEAD of the pack on ST
chilly brook
Which it isn’t
daring marlin
hilarious tbh
quartz pond
Here I though tank st dmg was well balanced
neon tangle
and it's #2
neon tangle
vs. 10 pally parses
sand egret
you can nerf UF (which is our prime scaling tool for TClap) and NOT nerf overall threat.
neon tangle
and 70(!) BDK ones
sand egret
if they wanted to hit TClap
chilly brook
And hurt us overall in both single target and aoe
sand egret
thats where they’d hit us
quartz pond
U can just take a history lesson
sand egret
which would be the point of a nerf, yes.
daring marlin
demo
lavish oracle
Revenge is no where close to thunderclap right now, haha
reef fulcrum
I don't know, I think they are going to nerf tclap damage so hard haha
quartz pond
Revenge was probably stronger
neon tangle
@daring marlin If anything that prot showing up at #2 on mekka is kinda the issue I'm talking about ❤
Prot dps is strong ST and super strong in AoE
reef fulcrum
AoE is insane
neon tangle
idk how you can argue against that
quartz pond
I expect prot aoe to get hit simply because it's what happened in legion
daring marlin
bowlby was always super high last tier too
sand egret
“doing more damage” is not a sustainable utility
neon tangle
I'm sure those prot pallies were too
sand egret
it’ll get hemmed
daring marlin
Our ST was probably stronger then due to dc extension
neon tangle
It probably was
It's still good now, both on the leaderboards, and looking at stats (at the 90th percentile prot does ~10% more damage than the other tanks, who are all very close to each other)
BDK -> Prot Pally is 600 dps difference
prot, at the 90th percntile is doing -8k more-
rain marsh
hey guys whats the ideal setup for azerite traits on both m+ and raids which ones better for stacking
neon tangle
@rain marsh It's also probably easier to see what azerite pieces you got and maybe post it in here
Aiming for "perfect" is hard, lots easier to optimzie the actual drops you get
unborn island
Ah Teeming Explosive Fortified, I have fond memories of this ruining my best ever key to start a week in Legion...Finally rolled NL 22...and...teeming, explosive, fortified...FML
neon tangle
Do not fear friend, it's a decent week for prot
unborn island
I like the big numbers coming out on teeming packs
lavish oracle
did they nerf explosive health again recently?
sand egret
pretty dope week imho
sand egret
yeah the orbs die in a sneeze
lavish oracle
Can almost kill them with an auto attack now
neon tangle
victory rush for days
unborn island
combining orbs with 1 shotting pelters which you can't kite because of explosive 😦
it was a bad time
daring marlin
@neon tangle bruh you linked opulence
sand egret
in ML?
neon tangle
@daring marlin I linked grong earlier
daring marlin
The thing we already know
neon tangle
My point is that warrior is ahead on ST fights like grong, and WAY out of wack on AoE fights
lavish oracle
Thing is, even if paladin pulls ahead of warrior in damage on some fights, warrior still takes way less damage than paladin
neon tangle
Warrior damage is wacky, the only real question is whether blizz considers that part of the warrior kit or whether it's something to be reigned in
lusty grotto
Arguable, paladins have better magic mit
lavish oracle
and even then like...being 2nd DPS on some fights is still pretty good
daring marlin
The real question is if they were to nerf our damage would they do something to offset it? :^)
lusty grotto
Holy shield is a thing
daring marlin
holy shield is 
lusty grotto
So is spellwarding
daring marlin
spellwarding is super niche
sand egret
my guess is when they clip damage we’ll see some bumps to our “utility” talents and the like
lavish oracle
Still doesn't compare to warrior mitigation
sand egret
prob also why they havent straight up clipped us yet
neon tangle
It's possible they'll let it go through the season
sand egret
since they’re prob waiting to have that tradeoff ready and the “current” state isnt the worst
neon tangle
they let BDK hang out way ahead for basically all of s1
neon tangle
and let monk tank like 75% of the first 100 ghuun kills
lavish oracle
They might try to balance it with Heart of Azerite stuff, tbh
unborn island
well, we were used on world first kill for the first time since..EN?
sand egret
yeah 8.2 will prob see these changes
lusty grotto
I just don't understand why our utility is a thing, when, compared to other tanks it is very clearly lacking
unborn island
guess we can look forward to being nerfed to the ground
sand egret
HoA could have a big impact on the meta that we dont know yet
neon tangle
@lusty grotto I don't really see warrior utility as "lacking", they got a lot of rando shit in their kit
sand egret
i feel like people want unique/special utility more so than utility generically
lavish oracle
I don't even mind lacking utility as prot at the moment, but Fury and Arms being so far behind in utility really irritates me and I barely play either of them, lol
lusty grotto
Stuns? Plenty of classes can fill that void
sand egret
vs how many people got a RoP, grip, yada
lusty grotto
Bshout? Get a scroll
lusty grotto
What else is there?
sand egret
if so ignore that
lavish oracle
You're forgetting our most important utility of all: heroic leap resets our taunt
sand egret
hek
dense flame
Arms fury aren’t even that good at dps in raid depending on what makes your Raid have. Just go big dick prot and profit
neon tangle
short-CD AoE stun, AoE fear, leap, charge, fear break, SR, demo, etc
lavish oracle
Banners pleeeease
sand egret
unique utility showcases/validates your choice of spec/class. Id argue there is a similar sentiment driving this across the playerbase
lusty grotto
Sadbox there is no lack of utility, the impact of them is what's lacking compared to other tanks.
dense flame
Just no grip
sand egret
^
neon tangle
That's fair nim
sand egret
its not quanitity, its qualityy
dense flame
Like grip is just so good
sand egret
stuns are useful and generic
lavish oracle
Safeguard is undervalued, it's actually pretty rad, just a little niche
sand egret
only one class has a grip
sand egret
id love them to baseline safeguard into intercept
neon tangle
Like they said, only one tank has a grip
dense flame
2 tanks have “grips”
lusty grotto
Yeah that'd be rad blade
sand egret
as its a very Warrior thing
I want to be able to force fixated on to you
no other tank can do that
neon tangle
@dense flame WHo's the second one?
lusty grotto
Vdh
neon tangle
You're drunk, DH doesn't have a tank spec
lusty grotto
Haha
lavish oracle
I tried tanking M0 on my 375 DH and even that felt bad
daring marlin
as the kids say
lusty grotto
"about as useful as a clothie taunting and running" - vdhs
dense flame
DH just requires you to kite
lavish oracle
Yeah, kiting feels bad
dense flame
I don’t like that style
lusty grotto
Honestly
dense flame
Warrior you go fucking ham
lusty grotto
I feel that should be a defined thing
lavish oracle
or at least how often VDH kites feels bad
lusty grotto
We need ranged tanks
neon tangle
@dense flame BDK requires you to kite still feels way better ❤
lavish oracle
I hate BDK for different reasons, don't mind the kiting on them as much
lusty grotto
True
lavish oracle
Yeah, grip of the dead is nuts
dense flame
I wish we had ravager baseline. That would be kinda cool
neon tangle
VDH is just fast, and mobs are fast, so you're flying halfway across the fucking dungeon
dense flame
Ravager into TC spam
lusty grotto
Not with our current dmg, that'd be nuts
dense flame
Haha
lavish oracle
Buff our damage more pls
neon tangle
@lusty grotto I would like to see warrior get their utility moved around a little
lavish oracle
Delete Ravager, bake Anger Management into the spec, give us 2 interesting talents instead
dense flame
No downtime in AM
neon tangle
Just hopefully not another grip or displacement
lusty grotto
Yeah
sand egret
toss ally
neon tangle
Maybe make the fear a horrify, baseline the "stands still" part
lusty grotto
I agree with you sadbox
sand egret
warriors will never complain again
dense flame
Aye
lusty grotto
Toss ally lol
lavish oracle
Yes, I wanna be Tiny
reef fulcrum
like garrosh in hots
lusty grotto
Oooh a dota player
reef fulcrum
haha
sand egret
oh man tossing derp dps out of AoEs
lusty grotto
Ewww a hots player
sand egret
would be my fav pasttime
lavish oracle
Replace shockwave with Ally Toss 😄
sand egret
wouldn't it just DR
dense flame
Oh god
daring marlin
I wanna see
sand egret
like you could never position a pull
daring marlin
fury/arms get shockwave back
sand egret
since everything would have .5 seconds to move
dense flame
I wouldn’t mind if we had a shield throw
neon tangle
Imagine if it bounced between the mobs
dense flame
Like DH have throw glaive kiting
neon tangle
and glowed
sand egret
get your pally stuff outta here
lucid bough
warrriors had an aoe silence
neon tangle
The last thing I ever want is for warrior to feel more like DH
daring marlin
disrupting shout was an aoe kick not silence
daring marlin
bring back banners
lucid bough
almost the same for the example
dense flame
DH got our banners
lucid bough
we are talking
steep lily
Warrior also used to have aoe taunt, but now we just have thunder clap for that
uneven mason
Warrior used to have "AE insert ability"
lavish oracle
Maybe heroic leap could push enemies away? Diablo 3 barbarian style?
neon tangle
plz no more displacement abilities
lavish oracle
I just want one
neon tangle
I will be very sad if BfA ends up where every tank has "Nudge" but with a different animation
lusty grotto
well
lavish oracle
Well okay, give me a displacement or a decent slow
One or the other is fine with me
neon tangle
warriors slow is about the same as every other tank but DK
daring marlin
naw mang
sturdy sable
Monks got a 50% slow with SD
lusty grotto
25%?
lavish oracle
20% from Thunderclap
lusty grotto
yeah 20 sorry
lavish oracle
Paladins have what? 50% from Consecrate?
lavish oracle
I'm gonna guess PvP
mental scarab
be a man tank it to the face
daring marlin
Make heroic leap do ground stomp/wrenching smash
lusty grotto
that was a while ago though
daring marlin
epic
sturdy sable
They nerfed all tanks slows to try to limit kiting I think
neon tangle
Just take dragon roar obvs
lusty grotto
back then yeah
neon tangle
@sturdy sable that's gone super well obviously
daring marlin
not pally slow
uneven mason
Obviously when BDK and Paladins have 100% uptime on snare pads
neon tangle
what
sturdy sable
Yeah and at the same time they made tanks squisher
neon tangle
not even really close to
uneven mason
🤷
neon tangle
for BDK
uneven mason
sad sir
lavish oracle
Isn't BDK a 15s CD with like an 8 second duration with a chance to reset on parry?
That's pretty good uptime for a 90% slow
lavish oracle
Okay, so like a 60% on average slow
uneven mason
"doesn't require melee range" being the key factor
lavish oracle
still a good up time
daring marlin
hell
uneven mason
but BDKs are built to be good in M+
daring marlin
They buffed pally slow
uneven mason
its a toolkit, and they should be proud of it
neon tangle
This is correct re: it being useful
uneven mason
Paladin slow is nice too
daring marlin
they made the talent also increase the range of consecrate by 15%
lusty grotto
rofl
uneven mason
TFW you can actually facetank some packs that 1 shot other tanks
daring marlin
I got a 400 vial last night and I haven’t even had the time to play with it
reeeee
uneven mason
Oh I didn't say
I had any inclination to play with the Bwonboi
just that I had a 400trinket that I hadn't played with yet
lusty grotto
neon tangle
Implying you don't have an alchemist stone
uneven mason
I had not swapped to alchemy yet
I should
but i haven't
I gave my guildbank all of my herb ><
thats my BDKs primaryu use btw
Skygolem + path of frost + moutned speed
amazing herb farmer
neon tangle
@uneven mason I dropped herbalism for eng 😦
neon tangle
upside is I get that baller helm
daring marlin
I hate that stupid helm
sick sentinel
What’s a good % uptime for SB/IP?
daring marlin
never gave me prolonged gem
uneven mason
Do you die?
forest osprey
Is there no recruitment channel in this discord to recruit a prot warrior for raids?
neon tangle
Man that is a WILD DEPARTURE from 8.0
forest osprey
okay awesome, thanks!
sick sentinel
@forest osprey the #promotion channel. I’d suggest joining the recruitment discord if you haven’t too.
lusty grotto
ill take a look at logs once im done with this round
sick sentinel
I feel recruitment gets lost in the spam in class discords
forest osprey
yeah probably but ya gotta try everything, right? lol
uneven mason
yeah..
sand egret
who’s gonna tell em....
neon tangle
@sick sentinel Just off the start, don't overlap SB and last stand
use last stand more, you only used it once
and took a pile of non-blocked melees in the fight
forest osprey
I have a special spot in my heart for prot warriors because I've had one since MoP but still leaning brewmaster...the prot warrior just has to like be good
uneven mason
I was approached by another guild and I think there was some death threats made to keep their grubby little poaching hands off of me.
sick sentinel
Which fight @neon tangle ?
sand egret
sad its his “LAST” stand....kinda implies a one-time thing.
sick sentinel
I’ve tended to use last stand as my primary and shield walll as my o shit CD
sick sentinel
Oh yeah cuz normal hits like a little girl
neon tangle
oh hey that is normal
neon tangle
You still overlapped on grong
sick sentinel
LOL. They should rename it first stand
neon tangle
On literally every last stand you overlapped actually
sick sentinel
I’m sure I did at some point out of fear of dying. They were pugs after all lol.
neon tangle
A huge part of being a good warrior is learning to not panic tbh
neon tangle
If you press your buttons as a reaction to fear you will do poorly
lavish oracle
Let your healers panic for you, lol
sick sentinel
Yeah i guess you’re right. Maybe I should use SW first
lusty grotto
yeah your block seems okay, except for the overlaps
neon tangle
28/73 melees against you weren't blocked
sick sentinel
What’s the effective SW reduc on average if you co constantly burn rage as you should?
Do you weave demo shout in between those or just use it on CD for rage?
neon tangle
~62% effective uptime for block, you can 100% get that up
sand egret
prob drop SW to like 2.5 min
sick sentinel
So my demo shout uptime is bad?
neon tangle
you even took a bestial smash w/o block or last stand up
sick sentinel
And wait I shouldn’t have more than 62% block time?
neon tangle
It's not about block uptime itself, it's about the effective uptime
sick sentinel
That was like when we had a bad tank and I could eat the first haha
lusty grotto
yeah demo uptime looks bad
neon tangle
i.e. how many attacks made against you while shield block or last stand was up
neon tangle
Shield block being up while you're running around, or not tanking doesn't matter
sick sentinel
So I planned around potentially needing to live through 2 smashes lol
Not even for SS damage?
lusty grotto
dont hold it
you can use it for SS dmg as long as it doesnt' affect your mitigation when you're actually getting hit
sick sentinel
Or should you only use SB for SS damage if you’re capped at 2?
lusty grotto
it depends
neon tangle
You could also line up your trinket with avatar, you missed a lot of possible casts of it
lusty grotto
but yeah i wouldn't use it if at 1 stack or less
sick sentinel
Macro what? Trinket and avatar? Yeah it’s macro’d to last stand. Oops
Need to change that
And to be honest, I have a few things Marco’d already.
Such as SB/IP
lusty grotto
but why
sick sentinel
Which after this feedback I’m going to change and track
daring marlin
E and shift+e are my SB/IP lol
sick sentinel
Shift E is revenge for me
I just wish we didn’t could take the talent that makes our autos do the one ability
Instead of the demo shout/rage one
lusty grotto
but BV gives us dmg
sick sentinel
Yeah I know I just hate pressing the other button on downtime
lusty grotto
if devastator did comparable dps to BV's 15%
sick sentinel
Devastate
sick sentinel
Devastate is just super mediocre
sick sentinel
I am?
neon tangle
also nim already covered it, but demo shout moar
It's CD is exactly 50% of avatar, so you should always have avatar+demo, demo, avatar+demo
lusty grotto
i gotta sit down with this log and the devastates, so i could be wrong
but hopefully you're using SS resets and not going for the devastate
rain marsh
just to be sure stacking Deafening Crash is good ? should I Get 3 if I can?
lusty grotto
depends on what other traits you have
sick sentinel
I am. I’m prioritizing SS/TCLAP
lusty grotto
ok i see