Thoughts on blightborne infusion vs callous reprisal? I really don't like reprisal but not sure how good infusion is.
#protection
supple path
sick sentinel
if you can get feather at high ilvl
true plover
And feather + the 385 opulence still for defense?
sick sentinel
you can keep it for the entire patch
true plover
405 w/ socket atm
warm plinth
Yeah probably feather+opulence for defense. Haste is technically better defensively but engine has ramp-up
true plover
I got it from the tort. emissary
warm plinth
Yeah it's from the tort emissary
So you essentially hit the lottery getting a 405+socket.
dusty prairie
so i've been rolling blacksmithing pants today and finally hit a good haste roll, 177 haste and 98 vers. should i keep or try to get mastery with the haste for some dmg
median wigeon
Would be very happy with haste verse
soft kindle
I thought so, apprec Unyun
Gonna smack into Rasta next week and I got a 420 of it
Put it in my bag and forgot about it, trying to min/max a tad
sick sentinel
Do I replace the FH ring? I would guess not but I want opinions
warm plinth
I think I'd replace it tbh. Unless you're at complete shit haste already.
fair flint
so should i be taking anything thats higher ilvl over stats?
410 88 crit/114 vers gloves or 106 crit/89 hast gloves?
or should i just be taking haste over anything?
warm plinth
ilevel>all; if it's equal ilevel, usually you'll take what gives more haste.
fair flint
okay cool ty
warm plinth
Only reason I suggested he replace the ring in the above example is because the new one still has haste and I like vers a lot more than I like crit. It was more feelycraft on my part than anything else.
last mason
Does anyone actually stream prot keys
undone sun
pretty sure sense does
warm plinth
Sense does, Late does sometimes
untold blaze
he is actually streaming right now but doing raid
last mason
Who is that, and is there a link
forest fern
can anyone tell me is bonded souls would be worth taking over another brace for impact, some people have said its really good at the moment since you are sharing it with another tank beside you. I'm talking exclusively for raiding obviously
warm plinth
Idk, not sure I'd take it over Brace. It's good but most prot traits are gonna be better. I don't know how you'd consider the sharing part since you can't guarantee that it would go to the co-tank
It could go to a DPS or a healer just as easily, and I'm sure that "nearest" has a range, though I'm not sure what that range is.
nocturne plover
385 knot or 410 vial? thoughts?
have 370 rezans in other slot idk if i wanna do two on use
forest fern
yeah i'm thinking its a 10yard range probably, so it would have to be a stand close fight, i wonder if it can stack is the other tank has one on aswell since its a shared trait
open field
Is there actually a haste cap with prot?
undone sun
technically, yes but it's the same for every class
well every class with a dynamic gcd
open field
I read like if you have 30 % haste you can have SB up 100 % off the time
warm plinth
@nocturne plover As much as you might not like it, your best bet is the 2 on-use
open field
Ok so stacking haste does not help me if I have higher ilvl items
undone sun
no
nocturne plover
i figured a 410 vial is better than knot
sick sentinel
4 mins over
undone sun
still a handful of abilities that have CDs that scale with Haste, more haste still decreases the SB Cd, marginally higher rage gen which feeds into AM
haste is still the best secondary per point, just without breakpoints or caps to worry about
warm plinth
Man, how is that 30% haste meme still alive
undone sun
lol
warm plinth
I thought we killed it in Legion
open field
So I have 1700 haste should now focus on ilvl or haste? 😄
warm plinth
Even if you had 2 haste, you'd focus on ilevel
undone sun
ilevel is always above haste, don't worry about how much haste you have
open field
Oh ok nice
round vortex
rings are the only exception
warm plinth
The only time haste's value should concern you is if you have two identical ilevel pieces
open field
Got it ty guys
round vortex
like in @sick sentinel 's case above I probably wouldn't use the 410 to be honest.
warm plinth
More total stats > certain stats.
sick sentinel
high motherlode and high KR is no joke
warm plinth
Only 4 mins over is pretty good though for a 17 KR
round vortex
I'm talking raiding sorry.
warm plinth
That's a rough dungeon
outer whale
hey guys, are there any alternatives to the basic talents for prot warrior? ive been experimenting with the more shield blocking talents like Punish and Heavy repercussions. also have lots of extra blocking azerite powers that i imagine would help the build
warm plinth
You can change row 2 and row 5; that's it
undone sun
^
warm plinth
The rest aren't really up for debate
undone sun
there's no competition for row 100
outer whale
yeah it seems like the normal ones are preally really good in comparison. but is there ever a situation where infinite blocks might be good/ shield bash dmg
sick sentinel
was a short fight though
warm plinth
Punish would be better if you were doing a single target fight with no allies near you (meaning you only had one stack of Into the Fray), but that literally never happens
outer whale
i just tired of using same talents i wish there was more variety v.v
warm plinth
I don't blame you, but tbh the talents you'd be using instead would be less fun than you were having now. The only perk you'd have of using Punish+HR is big Shield Slam numbers. But you'd have less CD uptime, and you'd lose out on a significant amount of haste which would feel like shit.
rapid tide
I mean, feel free to play around with talents, outside of high m+ and mythic raids it won't make it so you suddenly can't kill bosses anymore.
I mean yes, you are gimping yourself a bit and it's 100% not optimal but it also does not turn Prot suddenly in a guardian druid level tank 🤷
If you want to do the best your spec can you are set in stone. But in the end it's always your choice.
last mason
How liberal should you be with block in m+ that’s reasonably hard
outer whale
thanks for the advice guys ❤
rapid tide
In m+ I mostly rotate through them. You have some downtime towards ends of pull and between pulls to regenerate
warm plinth
It should pretty much always be up when possible as long as you're actively tanking something that does blockable damage
You have things like Last Stand and Demo Shout to help cover gaps; Shield Wall too if you need it
rapid tide
Idd. Use Bolster basically on cd
It's 16s of free blocks
(make sure you are not capping on sb in that window tho)
sand egret
tbh you should have 100% uptime in most M+ pulls
if not it's either a) you're mismanaging cds or b) your dps is weak compared to your pull size
warm plinth
Indeed
sand egret
~45 seconds if you go through 3x SB > LS > 2x SB (not even counting a 3rd or SW).
also real talk, this Ancient Tuskarr Charm is legit. 40% uptime for 5% Vers for 7 seconds. Really solid.
warm plinth
Yeah it's pretty great. Wish I'd gotten a damn trinket from the turtle boys instead of a ring
Feather would've been nice too 😮
dim blaze
Thanks
rapid tide
They have DC which you want once which is good. Very good t3 and t4
And BLoodsport and Iron Fortress are both quite decent in their own right, too.
So yes, I would argue those are rather good.
last loom
nice
rapid tide
They only become a nuisanec when you have several pieces with DC as t2
As that's not really changeable and then you kinda want to replace one of them
🤷
Minor issue I guess.
rapid tide
Every shoulder has either DC or BoM.
There are some with one but not the other though.
iirc.
silk mortar
Unless playing dungeons id go for Mali
modest wedge
if u cant decide dps trait just look it up from bloodmallet https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warrior_protection?data_view=azerite_traits&type=trait_stacking&tier=3
undone sun
well, still take sims with a grain of salt
undone sun
it's an ok start to get a general idea of what's good
silk mortar
Would most likely go for Mali then if you play both
undone sun
but still not to be relied on
rapid tide
Even less generic sims and not even char specific.
sick sentinel
or I can do for DC and swap 2nd DC for bloodsport on eng head
sick sentinel
I'll wait for the 415 ilvl one later today to save 10 gold D:
paper needle
what do you prefer? Vial of Animated Blood or Jes'Howler? Or do you even use both? (omg 2 buttons more to press :O). If i'm right, Jes'howler would be better for Magic dmg and Vial better for physical dmg?
sick sentinel
jes in dungeons
ebon hound
Vial for big boi reaping claps
sick sentinel
they are both good
paper needle
yeah - my other trinket is a very good procced Shrine of the Storm trinket .. love this for m+ ^^. And i rly dislike to play with two Use trinkets, since you can't use them together.
sick sentinel
Barnacle ?
paper needle
yes
sick sentinel
I can't say a bad word about Rezan
paper needle
Its most of the time about 5-7% of my dmg in Mythic+ and Rezan alway close his eyes for me 😦
sick sentinel
this is what you get from m+ box when you don't want to get shitty tank trinkets ;_;
warm plinth
lolllll, RIP
sick sentinel
upgrade to my WQ spec tho
normal trellis
Hi guys,
I am currently using a Syringe (385) and Rezans Eye (395).
I know Rezans is great for M+ and Raid. But which trinket would be best to replace Syringe?
sick sentinel
Jes/Vial
warm plinth
Syringe is good. What else do you have?
sick sentinel
or knot
normal trellis
I have a Knot (385 + Socket). All my other trinkets are 370.
paper needle
unlucky :/
warm plinth
I'd use knot over syringe
prisma viper
Question: Do Weapon DPS increase any other damage abilities than auto-attacks?
astral geyser
yes, moreso in bfa theyve tied it into ability damage so people care about weapon ilvl
alot of specs in legion just did not care about their weapon like windwalker
median sierra
the wrold is so unfair fury warrior in the guild got a vial 420 with socket and not even gonna use it
warm plinth
😢
narrow sigil
aww
hollow thorn
How can a 420+S Vial not be an upgrade
hot locust
@warm plinth That's strictly false as weapon dps is part of the AP formula for skill calculations.
I mean shit it even effects IP.
weapons are still far and away the biggest upgrade for most classes.
ember tangle
yes but less so than before
hot locust
I mean it's practically the only place a lot of classes take ilvl > socket
I'd say that's still a pretty sizable difference.
ember tangle
weapon dps applies to more skills but it's less effective for the skills than it was before
ember tangle
"does weapon damage increase ability damage aswell and not just auto-attacks"
hot locust
It increases literally every ability, DoT, bleed, etc. that you have.
On average I'd say more classes are more likely to need a higher ilvl weapon than before.
So I still don't get the idea behind saying that it's less important.
pastel siren
hey guys, what do you think about engine in 415 and sryinge 385+socket ?? I have a vial in 380 too
azure sorrel
what weapon enchant you would suggest?
undone sun
haste
azure sorrel
ty
ember tangle
after struggling monday to dying every time i was thrown, i figured out that you could spell reflect and not take any damage from beastial throw while he is squeezing you.
i haven't seen mention of this anywhere
ember crest
does it reflect the landing or?
ember tangle
nope
ember tangle
i thought it would be in the tanknotes so that is where i looked
rapid tide
If you are main tanking last hit just hit spell reflect
And you will not get the dot
Makes life much easier on healers.
ember crest
ah
vast raft
hi is underrot trinket good for m+ ?
sick sentinel
Sporepods?
vast raft
vial of animated blood
vast raft
ok that sounds good thanks xD
wicked ginkgo
avatar+ vial with BoM is crazy fun on a large pull
vast raft
so do i keep as second trinket howler or butchers block then ?
butchers is at 385 with socket and howlers 395
ah damn double on use feels bad
sick sentinel
You have one on use for every avatar basically
rapid tide
Try to grab rezan's, easy to farm :-)
Atm I would use butchers block, double on use is meh
sick sentinel
^^
rapid tide
For dps block is 👌
Rezans probably still better for pure survival. Not sure tbh
But ye, I'd just farm some ad10+
Rather simple and a 400 rezan's is pog
mellow bridge
I know that Ritual Bandages arent very good, but are they worth it over Rezans if they're 40 ilvl higher?
370 rezans vs 410 bandages
123 strength more, the on use blocks almost 80k
inland trail
what is better blood rite or bloodsport azerite trait?
silk mortar
Would go for bloodsport
tacit epoch
Hey guys, looking at getting my first 415 piece today. Is it worth buying one if i can only open first two traits?
rapid tide
If you lose a t3 imho it's fine, if you lose both a good t3 and t4 I would stick with a 400.
But seeing that you should have t3 415 when you can get t4 400 yuo probably don't have t4 400 which means...
Yes, worth it
😄
loud bridge
Can some1 recommend me a good prott BoD nhc/hc/myth raid guide? Or there are just basic tank guides?
oblique garnet
Tanknotes
lucid bough
acoustic warren
which random azerite bit is most likely to give you good traits?
wintry ermine
the icy veins guide says save for specific 415 chest, are you guys really going to do that? that will take many weeks 😐
tardy berry
second Snorris question
although, obviously it's going to depend on whether you're behind on the ilvl or not
the more behind you are, the more desperatly you'll need the upgrade
in addition most secondary stats carry the same weight for our spec
the traits are not so equal though
rugged vale
While we are on the topic of traits, is Brace for Impact a stackable trait?
tardy berry
nope
ah wait
my bad, yes
I thought you meant deafening crash
stack brace for impact
silk mortar
Everything about it stacks
rugged vale
Will the buff you get stack from it? I ran 2 brace for impacts but only received 1 stack of the buff per shield slam (according to my UI)
tardy berry
yes idd it's really strong AF
silk mortar
Except duration obivously but
You do only get 1 stack
But damage and block is included in that one stack
tardy berry
I've had 4 stacks at one point. Make my prot crit higher than my arms, and std isn't even our strongsuit
rugged vale
So the 1 stack has the two traits added together?
silk mortar
Yes 😉
honest canopy
tardy berry
honestly if I could I'd like to have this set of traits:
Deafening crash x 1
Seductive power x 1
Dark covenant x 1
Brace for impact on the rest
Haste is far better than crit for survivability though
rugged vale
Most definitely
tardy berry
the haste translates directly into rage generation which translates directly into you don't die
by dark covenant I meant treacherous covenant
what do y'all think of that trait?
oblique garnet
@wintry ermine god no dont save up for chest
tardy berry
I feel like it's worth it, but I'm not sure?
Sure it makes you more squishy in clutch situations but it's a lot of free main stat... str translates into armor translates into clutch situations becoming more rare :I
not sure tho
wintry ermine
@oblique garnet yeah, I wasn't going to do it, just felt wrong reading it
rugged vale
@tardy berry I think it is a solid trait. Honestly, in most cases once you fall below 15% and stay there long enough for the extra damage taken to become noticeable you'd probably be dead anyway
oblique garnet
I wouldnt use treacherous covenant as a tank in any situation
tardy berry
I feel like the pro's and con's are obvious and weighs up for each other so it's hard for me to figure out :I
If anyone have any more obscure pro's or con's, then your thoughts are wildly appreciated
undone sun
i wouldn't use it for prog
oblique garnet
There are many situatuons where you will drop below 50% hp and the trait instantly becomes useless at that point and if you drop to 20% normally you can live you will take extra damage
undone sun
but any situation where you most likely wont fall below 20% it doesn't matter
tardy berry
but the alternative is bloodsport
oblique garnet
Bloodsport is good
tardy berry
it just seems undertuned as shit, I feel like it's going to prevent an additional 3-400 dmg it's so low?
Maybe I'm underestimating the leech?
rugged vale
3-400 damage?
rapid tide
Bloodsport is good whenever your IP is actually used up.
rugged vale
On my 400 Crown of Bloody Succession (according to the WoW armory) Ignore Pain prevents an additional 9245 damage
rapid tide
Helps mitigate magic damage, too.
tardy berry
that's a lot of damage mitigation
rapid tide
It's a good trait tbh just outperformed by others depending on circumstances.
rapid tide
But as a general thing its' really nice to have.
rugged vale
400 Crown of Bloody Succession
rapid tide
ilvl 400 that is bloodsport.
Bloodsport is really decent. No idea where you are getting the 3-400 dmg from.
tardy berry
Wow.
rugged vale
The ilvl pieces linked to most websites were the lowest ilvl pieces of that item from early on in the expansion where 3-400 damage was probably accurate
Or you could look at it like this too. The larger your ignore pains, in theory, the less ignore pains you will have to cast to get the same output as not running bloodsport which means more rage for that sweet revenge spam 😃
tardy berry
Yes I see
rugged vale
This is according to the armory for my Warrior
strange horizon
In game
tardy berry
I am impressed: I asked for an obscure con to treacherous covenant, and you delivered xD
rugged vale
Then you should go with that number instead
rapid tide
It's enough to be good when it's actually used.
It just becomes useless when your IP is not used up anyways.
For pure physical the block traits are better in all honesty.
But for magic damage Bloodsport is quite nice.
I would not itemize towards it but I would also not be sad to have one or two.
rugged vale
I like to have one trait of it. While there is a lot of instances of magic damage in the current tier, I haven't found stacking IP to be necessary in most cases
broken roost
I'm running 2x BFI, 2xIF, DC and SSC :/
No BoM without dropping 30-45 ilvls per piece
Loads of block but still
odd geode
Hey guys I just got 410 Crit/Mastery ring , Using 2 x 390 Rings one is Haste / Vers and the other is Haste /Mastery+ socket
What should I choose please?
I know prot doesn't work with ILVL FIRST.
odd geode
So pick the one that give me more Haste between the 2 390?
broken roost
410 + socket, in that case
primal crypt
@oblique garnet did you get my DMs?
rapid tide
Ye, I would go with 410 + socketed
broken roost
More secondaries are more important than which secondaries you use
odd geode
[Loop of Pulsing Veins][Charged Sandstone Band]
loop is 390+ Socket
Charged is 310
410
[Seal of the Regal Loa] 390 regular.
broken roost
So 410 is the most stats, and the 390 with a socket is the next most
rapid tide
^
odd geode
Thank you
broken roost
No problem
odd geode
Can anyone help me Anahlyze why I am so Low Ranked on Warcraft logs ( I am a Raid leader of Pugs ) but still 9-20 pharses?
odd geode
Did my man
wintry ermine
@odd geode , you've got Vengeance instead of booming voice, seems like you're using too much devastate somehow
odd geode
Ok , Understood thank you !
oblique garnet
@primal crypt ye i did thanks
wintry ermine
@odd geode you should also start most fights with avatar and demo-shout, your starter is not optimal
quick elk
how bad is Bwonsandis bargain trinket. is it better than knot of ancient fury both are 400
rapid tide
If you would have died it's good.
odd geode
Thank you Snorre
rapid tide
Seeing that you don't want to die and generally should not...
Rather meh.
I would prefer a trinket that actively helps you to play well and not fk up
And not one that only works when you already fked up 😄
But I guess it's an option that's rather safe.
wintry ermine
@odd geode check the icy veins guide for the priority of spells, it should be shield slam -> thunder clap -> Revenge (if free or your capped on Ignore pain and rage) -> devastate
fossil basalt
Why prot war used on mythic jaina?
odd geode
Any WA to monitor the Ignore Pain ?
undone sun
#268491842637660160 @odd geode
jaina's main attack, ice shard, is physical and blockable @fossil basalt
quick elk
thanks @rapid tide . guess it kinda makes sense
odd geode
Thank you
undone sun
blocking a lot of the incoming tank damage is incredibly useful
rapid tide
It's a "spell"
but it's phys dmg and blockable
Else basically half of the tanks would be utter useless there.
😄
undone sun
they intentionally made her main cast physical to help the tank choice not as one sided like it was for augur in NH, Legion
it fucked with brew's mitigation at first, in a good broken sort of way
but fixed
grand trellis
What’s your insight into orbs this week guys, I feel like tanks got enough to do so grabbing the ones they can is good, but they shouldn’t be doing 50% of the orb damage right?
rapid tide
Up to your group 🤷
If we run assa + destro + balance then 50% feels fine to me.
If you decide it's tank's main duty then sure,
grand trellis
We had fury, arcane, shadow
rapid tide
Arcane and Shadow basically can't deal with them at all
So it's up to Fury + you so 50% seems fine.
Fury can deal with them quite well
grand trellis
Ya fair.
rapid tide
If none went through I don't see the problem 😄
rapid tide
Ye okay, then there is an issue 😛
Fury + Prot should be on look out for them.
Casters can't really do much against them if they don't have strong instants.
old zephyr
Orbs are free victory rush, just6saying
rapid tide
But even a healer skill works
grand trellis
Ya they are good for v rush
rapid tide
Our MW does a lot of orbs in downtime
grand trellis
But the orbs being spread out in that last temple fight is what was causing us issues
rapid tide
They are fall off and can be LoS
Not sure if the middle thing counts as LoS but should 🤔
old zephyr
Shield slom ashot them and trigger vr so the more I get the6happyer I am
grand trellis
There’s no los there
rapid tide
rip then 😄 Ye, a bit annoying idd.
Just make sure people stack so that they outrange them.
It's not that far for the dmg to be super low.
steady fiber
Hi, any tips how to hold magic damage for tank ? I mean was trying to close Shrine of storms 12+ casters were nearly deleting me and i was trying to hold defensives up, and im 394ilvl
narrow abyss
Middle doesn’t count as Los
rapid tide
You have 5 ways to deal with magic damage on your own:
1.) Ignore Pain. Should always have that up while taking magic damage. Prioritize it over Revenge all day everyday.
2.) Spell Reflect. Reflect big hitters or reduce damage overall (e.g. dots)
3.) Shield Wall. Use it liberally in M+ for Magic damage. Physical is mostly not gonna kill you so I save my SW for magic 80% of the time.
4.) Interrupts. A lot of the high hitting magic skills can be interrupt. Group effort here, make sure people don't double kick etc. That's probably the most massive way to reduce dmg taken.
5.) Line of Sight. When you break Line of Sight casts can't go on you. Go around a corner etc.
Some pulls are annoying, e.g. 4 casters in Tol Dagor after 2nd rogue skip
Gotta be prepared and have defensives up there 🤷
But if you manage CC and interrupts well you should be fine 99% of the time 😃
@narrow abyss ye, just learned, makes sense tbh for healing 😄 Never thought of it
rugged vale
CC and interrupts is golden for surviving magic. Also give Intimidating Shout a whirl as many trash mobs can be CC'd making it function as an AoE interrupt even if it is broken immediately
rapid tide
Ay, shout is big. But need to be careful, quite some mobs are fear immune.
narrow abyss
Good to interrupt 3 spritzers and a flechette 😂
rapid tide
feelsgood
uneven mason
Fortified this week, bigger yikes
might be worthwhile to build some Bloodsport sport.
narrow abyss
Yeah water blast is brutal. Everyone needs to kick
rapid tide
idd if people don't cc or kick and then blame tank for taking 40k dmg per sec...
primal crypt
🤔
rapid tide
Love it when there are triple casters and on first cast of first caster 3 kicks go on cd.
:^)
steady fiber
well i think ppl are like " u cant faceroll like Dk's"?
steady fiber
bcs yesterday i had some m+ party leaders that i wanted to run, ataldazar for trinket and tol dagor, was like warrio wut shit class we need only dk
undone sun
dk is definitely not face roll
steady fiber
and that was fcking 8+ 10+ 😄
undone sun
🤔
primal crypt
🤔
steady fiber
dunno
primal crypt
The top m+ spots are held by prot right now
Im guessing they dont know about raider.io
rapid tide
Prot is just insanely good for anything physical.
Like with 3x BoM + Bolster you are close to phys immune
undone sun
well, it's like 2 different players
steady fiber
well they are saying that warrior is lame in self healing, and in raider io one of leaders sayd "they are boosted then"
narrow abyss
Lol what
primal crypt
They still hold top
rapid tide
I loev it when people go "prot is lame in self healing"
slate remnant
Prot dps. Just sayin
primal crypt
Kek
rapid tide
Honestly, averaging 10k over a dungeon as prot is totally possible. Is that BDK level? obvsly no. But they also take 2x your dmg...
primal crypt
So many fotm rerollers and inexperienced players
primal crypt
That's what we're looking at right now lol
rapid tide
And prots defensive vlaue is directly tied to their offensive value so you can't "focus no defensives and ignore dps"
You gotta do good rotation to have good defensives uptime.
It's not an easy spec to get into imho
slate remnant
Yeah. Prot gives predictability
rapid tide
Like on BrM you can mostly ignore your dps rota
And just care for your defensives
And you are fine tbh.
Does not work on Prot. Do not generate rage? Guess no CDs for you.
uneven mason
🤔 how you care for your defensives as BrM when they're literally automatic
rapid tide
:^)
primal crypt
🤔
slate remnant
Oof
lucid bough
y
uneven mason
That trinket
Like a lingering spore infection on my nutz
@steady fiber just stack vampiric speed on your gear along with 3xBoM and 3xDC and beat the healer and DPS
primal crypt
^
steady fiber
hmm 🤔 that's decent ?
uneven mason
vamp speed best trait for reaping
cinder pasture
Well boys, the titan residuum gamble paid off 😄
brisk ferry
narrow abyss
Vampiric speed is disgusting
oblique garnet
Averaging 10k as prot?
steady fiber
3x BoM i think is like top and 1DC, 2xIF ?
oblique garnet
Yeah for m+
narrow abyss
Thoughts on bonded soul?
oblique garnet
@rapid tide i dont get why people look at bdks hps meters like sure they do 20k overall hps but then again the healer is also doing the same, meanwhile prot does 10k overall hps , healer damage is higher and they do less overall healing because there isnt much to heal
steady fiber
hps i guess is possible to pull off only with, vampiric seed or Bounded souls, mmm azerite veins ?
narrow abyss
With 1 vampiric I was over 20k hps On juicy reaping waves it’s great
oblique garnet
You get it with vamp speed + victory rush etc
rapid tide
10k is reachable without vamp speed but in m+ it's reaaaally juicy
oblique garnet
Also helps if you have opulence trinket
narrow abyss
Just not sure how meaningful the heal is yet for reaping wave. Just swapped it out when I got a 415 we’ll see
rapid tide
@oblique garnet people look at bdk hps because it's the easy number you see
Everything beyond that requires actual analysis
Which is too much of a hassle for most
frigid shale
hey is there any good pawn string for protection warriors ?
oblique garnet
No
rapid tide
So they see bdk doing 20k hps vs prot doing 10 so obvsyl prot is the worse tank
undone sun
👏 dont 👏 use 👏 pawn 👏
oblique garnet
Yeah and if they look at the damage meter they see the same thing except dk is doing 10k and warrior is doing 20-25k
rapid tide
@frigid shale nah, don't use pawn to make gear decisions.
For Warrior it's sum of secondaries > all aka ilvl > all
frigid shale
Okay I am usually playing DD and generate my string with raidbots but I am starting now in 5 man group to play prot warrior in m+
and the standart pawn string ist completly strange
rapid tide
Ye. Don't use stat weights ever
Not on dps eigher
Either*
It's a temporary indicator at best
And wrong at worst
junior igloo
@rapid tide
How is that advice any different from a pawn string that has all secondaries equal though?
steady fiber
What would you guys offer then for azerite talents i mean, there is something like Golden middle (best m+ for most things) ?
rapid tide
@junior igloo in all fairness... Not very much ;-)
steady fiber
bcs in that im lost bcs i get it that there are shitloads of stacking rotations or how to call them builds
oblique garnet
@steady fiber 3x BoM 1 DC 2x IF
Its the perfect balance of offensive and defensive traits in m+
rapid tide
3x BoM 1x DC is more generic I think
oblique garnet
Bonded souls might also be good havent done any testing with it since i dont have the piece
rapid tide
Outside of those it's really whatever on average
Like heavy magical you probably want less IF
🤷
But it won't matter all too much. 3 bom and 1 dc is the good shell to work towards
oblique garnet
On some dungeons bloodsport can be good
Like high tyrannical ml bloodsport and even never surrender
broken roost
I use pawn with armor 1.5, stam 1.1, haste 1.0 and crit/mast/vers 0.98
wintry ermine
same here Kooffd
broken roost
Just to emulate ilvl > haste > else
undone sun
yikes
tacit epoch
@rapid tide Thank you 😀
rapid tide
@tacit epoch yw... For what exactly again? :d
tacit epoch
@rapid tide Advice on getting 415 azerite
junior igloo
@broken roost
Reasonable, but armor is not a strong stat.
You should change strength to 0.7 and armor to 0.6 or something along those lines
broken roost
Sure, I just want it to give me ilvl first, figure that bumping up armor will do it
wintry ermine
I've got it at like 1.1 for STR/STA/armor, haste 1 and everything else a tiny bit lower
broken roost
It's not supposed to actually be the value I get from each stat
rapid tide
Mhm. Actual question, what is the value in pawn then when you only look at ilvl anyways? Feels like an additional addon I need to configure for no real gain.
junior igloo
If you put in reasonable estimates for armor and strength, it will compare pieces with sockets more accurately.
broken roost
Not having to mouse over the 50 pieces of gear I have in my bags for ilvl and whatnot, and quickly identifying haste vs not haste
rapid tide
Ye, sockets make sense, I mostly add up secondaries + 40 for those.
Good thing actually, might consider that...
Can I like make pawn load for only prot?
broken roost
Yeah - sockets I generally do manually (my methodology is socket is worth 5ish on rings, maaaaaybe 5 on bracers)
uneven mason
prob 10 on rings, 5 on cloak bracers
broken roost
Yeah? Hm okay
uneven mason
rings have no armor/str our main drivers of wantingilvl on armor slots
I want a trinket that gives us 10% Of every tertiary stat
steady fiber
And btw for trinkets Tol dagor wolf and eye from Atal dazar are like best ? Or there are some other that are worth to concider to farm up ?
uneven mason
for lulz
rapid tide
In m+ jes, rezan's and block are fairly good and easy to obtain
uneven mason
prettymuch
rapid tide
Block more for dps
rapid tide
Ah ye, vial, too
uneven mason
Basically "not the defensive ones"
Unless you need a shield and 1h, loot spec on fury
rapid tide
And not Briny. Thanks god, no reason to run shrine :^)
broken roost
Knot is good too
narrow abyss
They pug that on their own time 😂
uneven mason
gonna stack str
rapid tide
FH is nice and so is WM.
uneven mason
freeloot
rapid tide
I mean no big drops but easy dungeons
rapid tide
I started to love WM with reaping
rapid tide
So many corners and you can stack sooo good
uneven mason
👍
signal plover
So I've found an additional problem with 3 BoM+3 DC memes in raids(beyond the obvious lel).
When u top DPS meters on every trash pack, more ppl afk trash -_-
rapid tide
uneven mason
signal plover
Uve been warned lads
uneven mason
my DPS afk anyway
rapid tide
I don't know... Have RL tell people to not slack? :d
signal plover
I'll reward gold for beating me
rapid tide
I mean if you are doing trash you killed sth so can't be that bad morale wise :D
sick sentinel
RAGE or Vial... damn these first world problems with trinkets...
sick sentinel
sparkles out of my shoulders ? Fookin bis
rapid tide
^
signal plover
And ur butthole
thin ore
AGAIN. wtf this game is trolling me. 3rd item in a row. I wear haste/crit and I get versa/mast or mast/versa. no I dea what to wear. the versa/mast items have in part more ilvl, but it's also rings and I'd throw away 300+ haste. feelsbadman.
uneven mason
wat
thin ore
I just want the game to give me like haste/versa items or haste/mast items, then all be super simple :)
old zephyr
Could be worse, could be servant splitter
uneven mason
F
signal plover
?
uneven mason
😨
thin ore
please no
old zephyr
Be6happy you got Top grade stuff then =)
thin ore
I guess I need to learn to play in slowmo after unequipping all that haste.
but more stats = more better I guess.
uneven mason
trying to explain that to my RL lastnight
I was talking about the R A G E trinket
and how haste is more or less prot best stat
but then he's like "but you're using a crit/vers item here, when i Know you had haste there"
"Haste is your best stat why not use it"
(my 400 legs over my 395 legs)
old zephyr
You know armor and stuff
uneven mason
so I had to explain the difference between raw mitigation, damage avoidance and smoothing
and while haste is "best" because it helps with smoothing
its weaker than mast and vers for reduction
and crit is flat out stronger for actual damage reduction over time, but is unreliable
old zephyr
Since my guild is slow I won't even look at 95% of What drops in raid from now on so...
tropic star
ran 2 dark bargain things last night
old zephyr
We are 3/9 HM
tropic star
was glorious
inland mesa
yeah I got 1 upgrade through all of heroic and first 3 mythic this week 😦 M+ spoiled me and nothing good dropped
tropic star
11.7k armor
inland mesa
shaman that barely beat me on dps got shield 😡
old zephyr
I'm one of the only one in my guild that does m+
Shaman that almost never beats me on single target got6shield
But I have a 395 so It's okayish
thin ore
it's completely fine. it just feels so "outdated" if one of your pieces ilvl starts with a 3 and not a 4.
uneven mason
^^
old zephyr
I still have 370 season 1 shoulders
sick sentinel
I got chest from 1st boss and coined shield last week... I'm fine on the shield drops department this tier
old zephyr
Gotta replace them with 415 in 9 mins.
Will be glorious
uneven mason
AD has not been kind to me
sick sentinel
my worst item is 395 haste/mast cloak
old zephyr
Then i'll spend raids suicinding cuz dps stands in too much fire
broken roost
@thin ore are you the same BlacKcuD from crap patrol 2? Or am I crazy
thin ore
yes that's me 😊
broken roost
Siiiick I love that map
broken roost
Yep!
uneven mason
broken roost
Mastery enchant :o
thin ore
@broken roost there is a cp2 discord. aren't you on it?
broken roost
I'm not, no - only ever played it with my buddy so we never looked into any community stuff
uneven mason
Also, I get some sexy levels of block during M+
since mastery gets stronger higher it goes
broken roost
I'd love some BoM for M+ but have only found 1 piece with it and it's a 370
thin ore
I pm you link. it has like a bot for patch notes and ptr announcements etc.
broken roost
Sweet - thanks!
sand egret
@uneven mason that Veiled Eye doe
narrow abyss
AD has sucked for me
35-40 +10 last week. No shield. Got a 370 from AD yesterday for m0 weekly 😑
rapid tide
Dang, down to 800 haste 😄
thin ore
AD has the biggest troll loot table in the whole game
you can wear almost everything as prot pala/warrior
but it never gives you shit
broken roost
Same Aesri - had to switch to 4 block traits because my 415 and 400 only have crud (BFI/IF/Revenge, BFI/IF/Bloodsport)
oblique garnet
Imagine not getting bis items from your random rolls 8)
rapid tide
I have BfI, 2xIF, DC, BoM and Bonded Souls now :^)
broken roost
@Late I know but I just want 1 BoM on a piece - I want to feel the 👢 🍵 👏
lime elk
if you had to choose one, would you rather have a holy paladin or a MW monk in your raid?
exotic hazel
Given you don't have either to start with..?
lime elk
yeah
oblique garnet
You have ww monks?
lime elk
no
lime elk
and holy paladin if you had a ww or brm monk?
lime elk
mmm. I'm asking because we lost a couple members over the last month and now instead of having an excess of healers, we are running a bit short
we currently have disc sham and druid
with BDK and prot pali/war
exotic hazel
I'd say hpal, depending on the quality of the tanks and the other healers, and the fight, there are a lot of variables.
It requires less attention to keep the tanks healed and adds a good deal of utility. All assuming you have mystic touch. If not, then MW, yeah.
lime elk
and we have a member planning to get a healer up and they are debating between those 2
cool
uneven mason
@sand egret not a bad trinket tbh, also, my trinket luck sucks, but I was wearing it because of Jadefire on mythic, works vs fireball and the birdy boys burning analexpansion
nothing like getting hit for 150k fire damage by a melee hit.
fresh wyvern
How absolute is the recommendation for stacking BoM for m+? I am assuming that you get no value from >1 “grants you ignore pain on avatar” and the benefit is then the mastery. Are there times when you’d pick other traits beyond the first BoM?
potent anvil
Stacking BoM for m+ isnt necessary, but given how often you use avatar it provides the best value offensively and defensively due to mastery. Outside of having one deafening crash, I would go for BoM whereever its available.
strong forum
I could use 400 chest from 1st boss for m+ but I have rnd 415 chest with BfI and bligh borne, so I opt to run that over 400 with BoM
Sweet 45% crit during blight borne + trinket proc
uneven mason
yeah, that's some good 50% party
fresh wyvern
Thanks, really helpful
sand egret
Blightborne is amazing when it procs...but good lord is that procrate fickle as shit
narrow abyss
Haven’t played with it too much and maybe it’s a dumb question. But would u overlap BOM avatar uptime with shield block ?
sand egret
Also, anyone know if Tradewinds is a) a ppm and if so b) what is the rate
i'm guessing it's prob close to Incite at ~35% uptime in most cases, but I haven't been able to test it
uneven mason
@narrow abyss yes, mastery doesn't boost your raw block chance a whole lot, its much better at inflating your critical block chance
narrow abyss
Got it. Wasn’t sure about the difference exactly
uneven mason
so shield block during avatar - massive reduction because you crit block a whole lot
mastery adds about 4x more critical block % as it does raw block %
the % measures your critical block (when you look at your mastery %)
f you mouseover the tooltip will say like "block chance increased by 13% (which is alot) Critical block chance increased by 67%
modern brook
I'ma stat man rn
I have every tertiary
and hit 88 haste outside of lust w/ rezan +5itf
I havent checked my avatar mastery but im double bom so
big
thin ore
"12 crit is better than 10 haste" says the iv guide. you all agree?
uneven mason
more is better
thin ore
so in theory, you could create a stat weight which says "1" for armor, str, and all secondaries and it works?
modern brook
all of our stats also double dip
uneven mason
haste leads to better smoothing (due to increased SB up time)
modern brook
that is to say all secondaries* benefit offense and defense in meaningful ways
thin ore
I understand the reasoning, I want to have numbers since I am a lazy bastard.
narrow abyss
Thanks @uneven mason for clarification
modern brook
end
thin ore
funny man :d
obviously I am interested in when ilvl is equal or 5 ilvl difference on say a ring.
modern brook
🤷
thin ore
if they are equal, just sim dps :o
steel mauve
There is no way to accurately create a stat weight, if you want one that bad then play a dps, otherwise it will never be accurate
modern brook
😬
Basically yeah
either a) ilvl over all and you can be lazy and solidly efficient or b) you have to make some calls re: dropping 5 ilvls for stats you're low in/sockets/etc
steel mauve
Thats the best you will get, and its not rocket science to determine a better item, even at same ilvl or rings
Typically even rings its better for ilvl, socket is the only exception and its worth about 10 ilvls at most
thin ore
you mean sockets on rings only I assume
on a shield or weapon I am pretty sure a socket is not worth even 5 ilvls.
sturdy sable
How much is a socket worth or like legs or something
modern brook
🤷 not much Sockets get more value on Cloaks/wrists/jewlery
since they generally have lower stat allocation/no main stat
thin ore
thats my point: if you treat armor, str and all secondaries as equals then a socket on legs is worth less than 5 ilvls.
modern brook
you're over complicating gearing a lot dude
more stats is more stats; thats really it. literally every stat except stamina double dips, and stamina keeps u from dying
thin ore
either you are all incompetent ignorant fucks or blizzard did a really good job with prot warrior gearing :P
modern brook
Aight man
final mist
Relax.
primal crypt
LMFAO.
final mist
No reason for this.
thin ore
aka the way it should be, which is great.
barren marsh
manic perch
is there a trick to drop stacks on champions in HC? except for the leap out etc
thin ore
I am sorry, but this all just sounds "too good to be true"
final mist
And I'm going to address that, but yelling, "LMAO" repeatedly isn't helping the situation.
modern brook
@manic perch for what its worth i also have trouble dropping stacks. my cotank (brewmaster) just runs the boss around a lot when he's dropping
final mist
@thin ore be more civil in the future, the information is correct. Sockets are generally only worth about 5-10 ilevel a.
See Marok's message about pawn in #268491842637660160 if you wanna know why we don't use it
signal plover
@manic perch bubble taunts, SR, leap and dying lol. Or a legit tank swap. Or spellwarding
thin ore
I didn't call you that. Please learn to read. I am here to learn from the best, since the class discords is usually where you go, when you try to optimise yourself and this is the first time I heard gearing was THAT incredibly balanced.
chilly brook
Wow I missed a lot
signal plover
It's legit harder to drop stacks on HC than mythic
thin ore
well, forget about it. This is clearly ont constructive anymore.
uneven mason
^^
manic perch
ok well will try 😛 thanks
modern brook
@uneven mason we did heroic oppulance last night
My cotank was like "JUST CALL WHEN IT BREAKS OK, GIVE YOUR HEALERS A BREAK"
uneven mason
@thin ore That is the answer yes, gearing for prot is insanely balanced (this is serious) every stat is good at what it does, some smooth more, some are better vs magic, some are strong but random, but each stat reduces our damage over time by a nearly equal amount.
modern brook
and i did and he didnt taunt :^(
uneven mason
But
Prot doesn't need to tank swap
Like, my paladin co tank taunts so he can at least self heal a little bit
so I don't beat him in healing
TFW diamond never breaks on HC
uneven mason
You took more than 10k
primal crypt
Sorry @final mist. I really got in my feelings.
uneven mason
from a sweep
chilly brook
I feel like things escalated really quickly
uneven mason
ur bad Bull
modern brook
I think thats without diamond, in my defense
uneven mason
it is
cause thats an ignore pain absorb
since its exactly 50%
missing DS I think
looking at your mitigation
tisk
drowsy relic
mac
drowsy relic
which stat is good against magic?
modern brook
also real talk why arent we all just playing demon hunter?
I actually dont know my armor value tbh
I'm only like 384
thats a low ball estimate cause i got 3 drops last night
but
sand egret
I actually may be in the club now, come to think of it
modern brook
definitely sub 400
modern brook
@drowsy relic verse has the most obvious effect on magic damage intake
primal crypt
I may have been getting incredibly unlucky lately
naive panther
I was going to play war on opulence then realized I needed my dh grip so stayed on it.
primal crypt
But I havent seen a parry in a while
modern brook
I had a brew master dodge it
naive panther
Yes you can party that in kr
modern brook
so i think u can still parry it
naive panther
And dodge
modern brook
naive panther
I did it on two chars this weekend. On the brew I only took the debuff once
primal crypt
sand egret
yeah you're pretty bad, i parried the shit outta that backhand
undone sun
sand egret
git gud kehd
primal crypt
You so men
modern brook
how bad is conclave?
We're sorta walled on oppulance rn but its nothing im doing wrong so 🤷
uneven mason
@naive panther Y grip, tell ur DPS to not be bad
LIke, I'd argue that a prot warrior helps more with adds than a DH grip
cause of raw 👢 🍵 👏
uneven mason
I walk into the boss and avatar the shit out of those
primal crypt
the chains are poop
uneven mason
we also use vortex
thats the onl ytime I Have the co tank taunt
so I don't get hit in the back
so I can walk into the middle of the adds and do some bigboy stomping
modern brook
big
uneven mason
Everyone give a solid cheer to Iway, DH solo'd a +11, remember when a BDK did that in S1?
gonna get attention off Prot warriors being used on Jaina real fast
F for VDH
oblique garnet
Except method is doing it again
uneven mason
you shut your mouth
oblique garnet
They are probably get 2nd kill on jaina before limit
modern brook
i do have 10k armor mac
chilly brook
I think you mean prot warriors being used on all bosses but two 😜
uneven mason
Probably
chilly brook
Tbf tho Limit would have gotten Uldir WF if they didn’t get cucked by blizz
oblique garnet
Wdym cucked by blizzard
chilly brook
Can’t imagine how it would feel to go to sleep and then the comp you were running the day before that was working really well for you was gone because of balancing changes
oblique garnet
By choosing to extend?
chilly brook
And that next day having a 3% wipe or w/e
Extending was partially a problem because of the balancing changes
If the balancing changes hadn’t happened extending wouldn’t have been a big deal imo
naive panther
@uneven mason the adds last quite a while on mythic. Granted war brings a stun dunno if the dps can make up for a grip that applies a 70% snare for 6 seconds.
chilly brook
But since they did well....
mental solar
what balancing changes? i didn't see any or are we talking ghuun?
mental solar
ah
mental solar
off note have 3 BOM 👢 🍵 👏
chilly brook
Nah it was also Limit
oblique garnet
And then you couldnt use abilities on the orb
chilly brook
Limit talked specifically about it after the WF was over
modern brook
👢 🍵 👏 is never off note, steski
#protection may as well be changed to #do-i-shield-slam-in-avatar-if-tc-is-up
uneven mason
@naive panther if thats the case I might have to start working harder on my BDK 😛
chilly brook
I really disapprove of mid race changes
chilly brook
They’ve done it a lot of tiers
It’s just not good
If they want it to be an actual competition there shouldn’t be any changes mid race unless it’s fixing a boss that’s actually broken
But that would actually require QA testing of their bosses lmao
oblique garnet
If they want actual competition na reset should be on the same day
oblique garnet
They do
chilly brook
Although the only one I actually really follow is siege
modern brook
🇪 🇸 🇵 🇴 🇷 🇹
chilly brook
And they stopped doing operator rebalances mid season for a reason
rare kelp
Good evening guys, new tank here !
Is the trinket from King's Rest ( mchimba's ritual bandages ) any good ? (410 ilvl.....)
modern brook
Most tank Trinkets are pretty underwhelming
mellow yacht
what trinkets u have?
rare kelp
atm im using rezan's and dooms fury
mellow yacht
ilvl?
rare kelp
385 rezan 370 fury
oblique garnet
@modern brook Wrong
mellow yacht
replace fury
oblique garnet
Yeah use the bandages over your 370
mellow yacht
ezs
stark sage
bandages 👌
outer dew
A well timed doom fury is fat
oblique garnet
Tofu are you playing again?
uneven mason
once you get that tank spot, never give it up!
rare kelp
Ok i will give it a try then! Thank you all
chilly brook
I find something about the composition of your picture odd Tofu
oblique garnet
I want to give away my tank spot
Its tiresome to get a new co tank every few weeks
outer dew
Uhh
chilly brook
I think it’s just the way the shadows are
chilly brook
Want a permanent co tank?
outer dew
I'll be the next sandbox and roll DK
chilly brook
At least you’re not stuck as vengeance pog
narrow abyss
True true
oblique garnet
My gm said he will let me reroll into dps if i find a tank to replace me
primal crypt
Lul veng
oblique garnet
Yamo move to eu and start tanking
primal crypt
@oblique garnet so you're stuck lul
outer dew
Finding a tank is easy
primal crypt
Too late, Im a furry
outer dew
Finding a good one isn't
oblique garnet
Yeah thats the problem
modern brook
yeh thats fair
chilly brook
I ‘member when my BrM cotank would complain about skittish this xpac 🙃
modern brook
whats skittish?
chilly brook
Exactly
oblique garnet
I think skittish is also affecting raids i keep overaggroing