Once we're fully implemented pawn wouldn't be too bad I imagine
#protection
true plover
uneven mason
Found the noxxic user
sand egret
wait for it.....
ruby berry
old night
hello boys
half carbon
on the 3rd boss in the new raid, at the end does the dragon serpent fire the flame on a random target?
steel mauve
i still wouldnt use pawn regardless of class or if sims are fixed
round oasis
Is there a good way to Sim mitigation stats? like to get a pawn string that focuses on mitigation instead of DPS?
stark sage
no
its possible, but not worth the effort and no one has accurately created a sim for any tank that shows the defensive value of stats
prot doesnt even have a sim for dps atm
analog creek
In order to sim out defensive values of stats you need to know the size and type of attack and rate/uptime being attacked
stark sage
crit doesnt impact rage gen for prot
analog creek
So it is easily done case by case, but that would only give true weights for that single boss
stark sage
stam is pretty high value, but i dont use pawn
its probably a bit less than the value of secondaries
steel mauve
we have no values for stats, pawn is useless for us as we cant accurately detail our stat weights
round oasis
so for my sim: Strength=3.08
I want to at something like Stamina=2.00 or something
to give it a value... does that sound dumb?
sullen jungle
Hello guys. I just got head and Shoulderrs from BoD. Head has 5th ring Brace for impact and 4th Ring iron Fortress. Shoulders has 5th Ring Brace for Impact or Bastion of Might. And Deafening Crash. Should i take another Brace for impact or should i take the Bastion of Might ?
warm plinth
I’d take BoM personally
steel mauve
BoM for m+, BFI for raiding
tulip arch
Would an azerite piece with the extra ring be worth a 20 ilvl loss?
warm plinth
@round oasis Your str weight is useless, and even if it wasn’t, you still wouldn’t be able to assign a value to stamina. You can’t sim for survival.
stark sage
@round oasis if you are able to get a realistic setup for pawn, you will start to realize why its not very useful, as 95% of the time it will tell you to pick ilvl upgrades
round oasis
ok... maybe the better question is: when should I NOT take an ilvl upgrade?
round oasis
pawn evaluates sockets though...
open bluff
who uses pawn in 2019 
round oasis
me?
keen spire
He does
open bluff
sockets are +40 stats
round oasis
or you can use the addon? how is not using the addon better?
stark sage
because the addon's values arent derived from an accurate means
round oasis
I want the computer to do the math, not my monkey parts
open bluff
the addon is worthless for prot right now, and even once the prot module in simc is fully functional
stark sage
because there are no accurate ways to retrieve the values
warm plinth
The computer values are useless. Someone made them up based on nothing.
open bluff
you're still better off just using raidbots because it does the exact same thing
stark sage
raidbots doesnt work for prot
open bluff
once the prot module in simc is fully functional
round oasis
not true, I'm asking how to set those numbers manually to get the same results you would after pondering it
steel mauve
thats not possible
tulip arch
If you like you can just set equivalent values for all the stats in pawn, it will automatically add 40 for pieces with a socket
stark sage
if the prot module is fully functional
open bluff
raidbots works, it's just not accurate because the prot module isn't fully functional (yet)
round oasis
right, you can manually set the weights
steel mauve
currently it is not possible to get the values for stats for us so pawn is useless
stark sage
@round oasis but once you set the values, then you change a gear, now your values are different
you dont know by how much
because you would need a sim
open bluff
^
open bluff
pawn values are good for exactly one upgrade at a time
round oasis
for DPS, I re-sim as soon as I get an upgrade and import new numbers
open bluff
then you need an entirely new string to keep it accurate
round oasis
why is that a problem?
stark sage
you would resim if prot had a sim apl
warm plinth
But the sim is useless...
open bluff
the thing is, for specs that pawn/simc works for the pawn string is good exactly once, you have to sim every single upgrade and at that point you're better off just running a top gear sim on raidbots
because it literally does the exact same thing, only more efficiently
stark sage
you set the values, which dont account for breakpoints, or the opportunity cost of trading stats for other stats, it just does a simple multplication and addition/subtraction. pawn is a snapshot of your gear its impossible for it to adjust the stats dynamically as you gain/lose them
compared to a sim, which just flat out uses all the gear combinations, it does account for breakpoints and for opportunity cost, it does dynamically understand the changes in your gear
however its moot
since prot doesnt have a sim
you can set pawn to tell you to pick ilvl every time, just set all the values to 1
open bluff
if top gear/gear compare sims didn't exist on raidbots, pawn would be somewhat useful
but they do exist, making pawn irrelevant
round oasis
but, at the end of the day, you are using objective metrics ... take the sim out of it... there are ways to say "X mastery is worth Y Crit at these breakpoint values..."
steel mauve
that is literally impossible to do
stark sage
especially with pawn you cannot
pawn can not understand breakpoints
due to how it works
steel mauve
there is 0 ways to determine stat values for us
round oasis
so I guess I'm saying, if you aren't using a sim, then you're either: doing all this math on the back of a napkin to compare two peices; or you're just using your gut to say "This item looks gooder than that one"
keen spire
I'll tell you @round oasis : There's a widely accepted view right now that Pawn is obsolete as a result of raidbots being launched with full functionality. There is some merit to this belief, as Pawn hasn't quite confirmed if they factor in the Azerite traits and sockets fully or accurately. Pawn is still receiving use because it has an attractive, in-game interface that offers slightly more convenience than raidbots (since you have to go outside the game and enter a queue for raidbots).
Currently, the APL hasn't been developed for Prot, so SimC doesn't work for it, which means Raidbots and Pawn don't work for it. Anything you're entering into Pawn is essentially someone's opinion about where the stats should be weighed, which could be based off of solid math, but is unconfirmed.
So people generally don't like taking Pawn's stuff. Prot, in particular, is more of a community thing. We kinda all talk about what's good and what isn't, and feed off each other for testing and stat weights (which, for the record, we don't really have stat weights at this time).
Sorry for the wall of text guys
steel mauve
we just choose ilvl over every thing else
sand egret
Blob with the TextClap
round oasis
so you auto-DE any item that equals your current ilvl?
stark sage
the way we gear as prot,
our secondaries are extremely close in value so you pick ilvl since the budget on items is universal
str armor and stam have significant value so those also normalize gear making ilvl more important
if ilvl is equal then you have some decision making, generally we favor haste as a generally all around defensive value/ mastery vs physical and blockable/ verse vs magic / crit vs parries
keen spire
Nah, I personally try em both out inside an instance or raid @round oasis
steel mauve
ilvl > haste > vers = mastery > crit (only if same ilvl)
round oasis
once you equipped it secondaries don't matter, sockets dont matter...
keen spire
See which one feels better to me
stark sage
you can find the value of a socket by adding the secondaries to a piece, if you total all the stats, the one with more is better
median mauve
Aside from the fact simming Prot doesn't work, if you don't use Top Gear and instead sim items 1 by 1, then you are doing it wrong
round oasis
@stark sage or... you could let the mod add and subtract the numbers for you right?
final mist
You favor ilevel over everything, if something has equal ilevel then you favor whatever secondaries are better within the stat priority we follow. It's really not that complicated.
Pawn is a shit addon. Just drop it and don't worry about it.
stark sage
you could, but the amount of thought put into to picking items is about equal to the thought required to reading pawn
@round oasis i'm curious how would you or have you set your stat values for pawn
atm
for prot
tulip arch
So or me I put a 1 into the 4 secondary stats plus armor and str
That gives me ilvl a majority of the time
And sometimes puts items with a socket as better
I think that is all he was trying to say, where you can use pawn to quickly evaluate which item gives more overall stats
Rather than manually adding up the stats and 40 for the socket yourself
sand egret
dat 6th grade math
tulip arch
Sure, but in a raid when someone is asking if I need something that's quicker
No worries, not offended :)
stark sage
i mean you see the ilvl its pretty quick to evaluate, if it also has a socket than you can estimate the value of the socket as 5-15 ilvl value depending on the slot
you have to remember which slots are roughly what value
but once you get it down it takes as much time as reading the pawn result
tulip arch
Sure, that requires me to remember how much 40 stats worth of ilvl is for each slot though
It seems easier to have pawn tell me directly
keen spire
well in that case, wouldn't it be easier to put like... 1 for haste, .98 for vers/mastery, and .96 for crit?
tulip arch
You could, but the general theory is that more stats of anything is always better
keen spire
If you insist on using Pawn, I mean
tulip arch
So 1s for all represents that idea better I think
keen spire
Which is why ilvl is superior to all
tulip arch
And sure if they are real close pawn results I will look at the actual stats on them
open bluff
OttomanToday at 4:05 PM
Sure, that requires me to remember how much 40 stats worth of ilvl is for each slot though```
0 for shields
5 for armor (depending on the slot)
15-20 for ringsnot really that difficult
tulip arch
Um, not for cloak
keen spire
shit it might even be 1, .99, .98
tulip arch
I remember holding to a cloak until I got at least 20-30 ilvl
steel mauve
socket isnt worth 5 ilvls on armor
mostly just cloak and rings for a socket, possibly bracers, every thing else 5 ilvls wins over a socket
keen spire
dude I got a socketed wep last night. Was pretty stoked.
I didn't even know they could have sockets
rip
lol
naive panther
Depends though if you want raw damage increase socket can be worth more than 5 ilvls thing is cant prove it for prot. But if survival is your goal the armor stam and str out weigh a socket pretty quickly.
pearl ermine
guys
what build would you use in m+ this week, standard m+ build seems very low on healing
stark sage
prot doesnt have healing
just have to mitigate better and hope your healer can keep up with bursting
pearl ermine
I mean, optimizing the active /passive mitigation
stark sage
standard build is the best build
pearl ermine
thanks
sand egret
just remember: dead mobs do 0
dps (until reaping lol)
keen spire
@pearl ermine Remember that they increased the difficulty of M+ by about 3 steps. (a season 1 M6 is now a 3, a 3 is now a 0, etc)
roughly anyway
sand egret
and bursting is very rough again
makes this week a wee bit painful if shit dies rapidly
neon tangle
did the world boss rewards get upped?
surreal stump
no only darkshore and only next week i think is when starts? i dunno im horde so dont matter for me!
rare helm
Anyone got any data about how good the engi traits are defensively - primarily doing m+? Synaptic Spark Capacitor vs Relational Normalization Gizmo specifically
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=280174/synaptic-spark-capacitor
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=280178/relational-normalization-gizmo
astral crystal
i experienced prot healing in bfd
when i was turned into a draenei
gift of the naaru op
oblique garnet
idk
its not too bad
with proper coordination
can live like 7-8 stacks
Btw @primal crypt and others if you do temple with reaping the adds that spawn galvazzt will all be the big shadow nuke ones
oblique garnet
It was hella scary as how they came aswell
Like just big balls of electric heading to you
neon tangle
@oblique garnet My healer in that +5 just now had a bad time
kept letting people die from 2 stacks
oblique garnet
Rip
daring marlin
I had a baller MW champing it out in AD
It was a 6 on the little dudes and he was healing through the 6 stacks
slate vine
Double shield on first boss HM
daring marlin
shit was ridiculous
slate vine
fuck me
oblique garnet
Our rdruid was pumping out 40k hps on those little ones in atal 10
daring marlin
oblique garnet
Jesus they are scary
daring marlin
I did a KR10
fleet goblet
Anyone who has time, especially theorycrafters, pls check this prot sim and point out problems https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bQWp6etE1w438nF8d7LU4/simc
primal crypt
"fun"
daring marlin
I’m liking reaping on my lock at least
oblique garnet
The bursting rn is way too overtuned
daring marlin
It’s the best time for infernal
hands down
dude fuck bursting lol
How do you almost triple it
That’s insane
daring marlin
HPS is definitely lower than Legion and it’s higher than Legion too.
Like the fuck
oblique garnet
Legion was 10% its 7% rn orB
midnight citrus
Anyone have an idea of where Ancients
Ancients' Bulwark ranks in the outer rings for the new gear
daring marlin
It’s made worse by being coupled with quaking
oblique garnet
Yeah
oblique garnet
Volcanic raging tyrannical next week 8)
languid sigil
Can you put Kelp Wrapping on the Boss itself during the Stormwall Bossfight? 🤔
outer dew
@daring marlin ya gonna take me along as a dps bby
shut summit
@languid sigil no
outer dew
@daring marlin why do you betray me like this
it's okay
i'll race change my gnome back into a panda
will you love me then?
exotic tiger
is there a consensus on Bonded Souls
inland mesa
People mentioned that upscaling and turning that off may help with the Conclave room lag...where do I find that?
sand egret
should be in your graphic settings
resolution scale or something along those lines
it's a slider
jolly locust
how is the Diamond-Laced Refracting Prism trinket?
solid owl
doing some testing now, it appears that reflecting the buster cannon does prevent the debuff from being applied, but doesn't deflect the orb like the tanknotes was suggesting
@gaunt dawn
sand egret
also, just wanna say nice work on the site my dude. It's real slick.
gaunt dawn
Ill be doing another large round of updates tomorrow. Ill look into that one
Got more logs now to play with incl my own 👏 👏
honest canopy
Zup friends.
mint ether
jagged bay
hi!
dark lark
hey mods, is it possible to put in the sticky or one of the icyvein/wowhead guides what a socket is worth relative to the gear? maybe even a chart
im always for referring to the pins, but I find myself asking this question a lot
- sim yoself in the dps chans
inland mesa
so uh.....420 with socket Diamond-Laced Refracting Prism?
solid owl
it looks like spell reflecting before gigavolt charge faded didn't prevent application of the debuff either
inland mesa
i'm assuming I should use it for the 120 str alone, right?
broken roost
For island expeditions with pugs - better to farm norm or heroic?
open bluff
heroic is faster in terms of needing less for the weekly
civic bison
Is it worth rocking darkmoon deck if my alternative trinks are 370 and 385?
stone crag
entirely depends more on what trinkets they are
obsidian bluff
I asked it before, but I didn't catch the response. Should I stack 2 BloodSport traits, or 2 Callous Reprisal traits. (primarily for m+)
lavish oracle
Yeah, I wanna say its bad
oblique garnet
The way reaping works i just dont see it being good
olive moss
having two iron fortress or one IF and one rezans fury
stone crag
if you had to stack, i'd guess CR is better @obsidian bluff
obsidian bluff
@stone crag @lavish oracle I've tried double Bloodsport, I'll give double CR a go and see how it feels
thank you
lime elk
So now that it's been a few weeks with the protection changes, is the concensus still protection bring relative ass?
lime elk
I haven't looked into it since the changes were announced and I kept hearing it wasn't worth going back to yet
timid jay
Am I allowed to say yes?
timid jay
Though more playstyle for me
lavish oracle
Plays smoothly after the changes, still the best tank for taking physical damage
timid jay
/shrug
lavish oracle
Well not liking a thing and the class being ass are different
@lime elk It's one of the better tanks for M+, at least on par with monk if not with DK and sort of a 4-way tie for best raid tank
depends on the fight in raid, really
lime elk
Have monks and DKs been brought more in line with the other tanks?
Wow really? That's quite the improvement from last tier. Being near the bottom for both
lavish oracle
I think it was a little exaggerated last tier but we definitely weren't in as good a spot as we are now
lime elk
DKs must have had heavy nerfs to have warriors be almost on par
Oh yeah, people were totally riding the hate train
wicked snow
for KIMBUL’S ASPECTwhen is it best to swap?
lime elk
Was it largely nerfs to monk/dk or did protection end up getting some extra buffs?
wicked snow
ok
lavish oracle
@lime elk Buffs brought us in line with monk, and nerfs brought dk more in line with monk
lime elk
What about on the raid level
Monks seemed so above and beyond compared to the rest for mythic content
lavish oracle
DK and Warrior are better specialists, Monk is a better generalist
lavish oracle
I haven't played it but the DKs I've tanked with have seemed fine shrug
sick sentinel
they are fine
they just don't compete with how good prot and monk feel comparatively
stone crag
seeming is subjective, imo it's all overhype anyways
lavish oracle
I always feel like DK feels like garbage but that's 'cause I hate it
lime elk
Well I'm happy to hear we're in a much better spot. It isn't wow without prot warriors being relevant
DK is a bit of a different style imo
Being reactive rather than proactive
lavish oracle
It's just so much slower than prot
if I'm not top of the APM charts, what am I even doing?
timid jay
What rough APM are prot warriors doing now? 🤔
stone crag
abt apm pepehands
timid jay
Wcl does
lavish oracle
I haven't logged any of BfD but most of my Uldir logs are 62-66 CPM ish
lavish oracle
I think every class is a lot slower than legion :\
stone crag
wish it lasted longer
crystal night
Is 3/3 bastion 2/3 iron fort and 1/3 tclap trait ideal for m+?
stone crag
most stopped using it halfway through abt @timid jay pepehands
timid jay
It was kinda shit after a while, was fun though. (A bit RSI inducing 😂 )
willow fractal
on the blockaid fight my guild must be missing something cause i am seeing people kill it in under 5min ....i am main tank and we must be missing a mechanic...the boss gives us the kell wrapped debuff which when a add spawns we run to add and drop the debuff on the add that spawns but the boss has like 38 mill health ..is there any mechanic that we are missing that helps u kill the boss?
the Stormwall Blockade fight in BDA
timid jay
@hot locust do your thing 😡
willow fractal
we keep wiping at 50ish%
timid jay
You were supposed to be the chosen one
Answer questions faster than me and Thyme combined
hot locust
Ahhhh.
hot locust
@willow fractal in all honesty, it's a marathon not a sprint.
stone crag
answering questions before they're even asked
hot locust
You have it right to use the debuff to kill adds
timid jay
Answers questions before they are asked
stone crag
🤣
hot locust
but just gotta keep doing it until he is low as hell and then ignore adds and kill him.
hot locust
I'm running M+ 😡
timid jay
No excuse 😡
hot locust
😡
hot locust
Sense?
stone crag
im fairly certain thyme and cosmo answered questions mid agg pulls
timid jay
Weeeell
hot locust
bruh
timid jay
Sense was never really active
hot locust
LOL
timid jay
Is he now?
timid jay
Would you look at that 🤔
shut summit
no
stone crag
beat boost 😡
indigo knot
china numba 1
steady plover
If I can afford a random 400 azurite piece with a defensive trait or get a random 415 with another 3 azurite levels to go, which do you guys think would be better?
oblique garnet
Wait @hot locust you got 2k io last season?
hot locust
yeah
oblique garnet
Why did i stop pushing😪 everyone went past me feelsbadman
hot locust
I basically got 2k and quit once 8.1 was out, looking to go quite a bit higher this next time hopefully :3
hot locust
Reaping is so much fun imo
hot locust
Yeah I did one
oblique garnet
The adds that spawn galvazzt just turn into electricballs and creeptowards you to the orb room
By far the funniest shit you see till they reach you and they start spamming the smash
hot locust
really unfun now
oblique garnet
Even on 3 stacks you need like 30k hps to not die
hot locust
the real problem with the way it is now
is that even in low keys it destroys your group
so lower level players also get punished stupid hard by it now
hot locust
it currently does 14% of max health per stack over duration
it was 5% at start of BFA
and 10% in legion
It's actually just brutal as hell
oblique garnet
Yeah i wouldnt be surprised that by saturday it gets tuned down
blissful stirrup
Hello.
Any one knowing if Bonded Souls is worth taking or is it bad? dont say anything on icy-veins or any other sites ether.
on Azerite Traits
chrome raft
May depend on your other options
You can always try it out and see how well it performs too
sharp lotus
How many stacks do people run up on bursting around 6-10 keys
lavish oracle
Do M+ drops cap at +6 or +5?
chrome raft
just depends on what your group comp is for bursting
if you have some immunities you can go really high
cloak of shadows, ice block, etc. can remove it
sharp lotus
True, what would you say would be the max tolerable with IP talents?
chrome raft
Also just a question of how much you will be staggering the stacks
if you can kill everything together so the ticks are not extended it can be like 9 stacks
sharp lotus
I just am taking it too slow by aiming for 2 stacks give or take
chrome raft
You should plan around your group's defensive cooldowns to do big or small pulls
depending on what you have available
half carbon
Anyone here tanked the 3rd boss mage i p3 in dazaralor? IT destroys me. 120k hits 😥
chrome raft
you can't always do back to back high stack pulls, but they can be pulled off with cds and they should be done if you wanna go fast
sharp lotus
True, I need to get a weak aura that keeps track of such CDs of my group
warm plinth
What exactly do you mean by IP talents?
@lavish oracle M+ rewards cap at +6 (385) atm. Weekly chest on Tuesday will scale up to 10 though (410 if you do a +10 this week), and end-of-run chests will scale up to +10 starting next week.
sharp lotus
Just never surrender
warm plinth
Bursting needs to be about controlling pull size, and DPS controlling when mobs die. I definitely would not change talents to adjust for it, especially not to Never Surrender.
stone crag
one wouldn't pick never surrender
sharp lotus
For m+ on bursting, its much better mitigation
stone crag
no
warm plinth
It's really not though. You need effectively 0 health to get the maximum benefit from the talent, first of all. Second of all, IP is far less significant than it was in Legion and it still wouldn't have been worth it to do it then (even if bursting had been at current levels).
Think about when Bursting happens; it's at the end of a pull, when you're likely to be at low rage (which means you might not even have the rage to cast an IP), and even if you had the rage to cast one, it's going to get eaten in like 2 ticks at 1 stack of bursting.
Which you won't have just 1 stack, so it's going to be eaten even faster, and will have helped your healer exactly none.
sharp lotus
I misunderstood how the talent worked then, I thought the bubble went from 50% mitigation to 100% mitigation
my bad
warm plinth
If it had a higher floor, it'd be more appealing (though we'd likely still not take it over Bolster), but the fact that it scales all the way to 0 health to get the max benefit is pretty horrible.
sharp lotus
I dont fully understand, since the bursting % is baselined, doesnt stamina degrade in value and even put strain on the healers?
warm plinth
Are you referring to if you used Last Stand?
sharp lotus
yes
warm plinth
Well, typically you are going to use Last Stand mid-pull, either for the health boost or for the Shield Block uptime
So it won't be around when Bursting actually happens. And if it is, you could always cancel it if it was an emergency.
dusky thunder
Apparently, I am having a miscommunication with my brain. 385 piece w/out socket is better to equip than a 375 with socket correct?
warm plinth
You can do the math for it. If it was a ring, I'd take the lower one with socket.
dusky thunder
comparing pants in this case
warm plinth
But typically you can just add up the stats (including stam), and see what the difference between them is. If it's less than 40, the socket is an upgrade.
dusky thunder
ty
warm plinth
If it's pants, it's not going to be worth it. Rings are probably the only ones I'd drop ilevel for a socket on.
dusky thunder
that is what I figured since Rings don't have str on them anymore
patent bone
would yall drop down to a 370 azerite with 5 rings over a 385 4 ring one, assuming a bis combo of traits on both?
manic perch
yes
marble cipher
@lavish oracle caps at +5 (if nobody answered yet)
lavish oracle
Ghash answered and said it capped at 6 and now I'm more confused, haha 😄
marble cipher
it's 5
I also thought it was 6, untill I spammed 5's last night and got 385 everywhere 😉
lavish oracle
Ah, k
Guess I'll spam 5s
reaping is just too much fun, been burning so much time in 10 and 11s 😄
marble cipher
Haven't done reaping yet, really looking forward to my first run 😄
surreal stump
its just about planning and postioning in most dungeons
lavish oracle
ToS is bugged right now, though. All the mobs that spawn the 3rd boss spawn something like 5 of the reaping mobs
so what should be like a 15 mob reaping ends up being closer to 30 or 40
and they are not the nice easy reap soul mobs either, they're the ones that spawn shit on the ground
good luck dodging 25 of them, haha
marble cipher
Does "scrapping" the new alchemy trinket give back the tidalcore used for it?
(like it does with expulsom)
jade socket
old zephyr
How much stacks is that ?
ionic fern
It maxes out at 40
marble cipher
auch, that's a hit every 0.35s or something 😄
old zephyr
À hit every 0.35 but a regular blockable mêlée hit
marble cipher
yeah
will be funny to see my DK co-tank being annihalated by those machinegun hits
old zephyr
I tank paku And don't swap it (at least in nm), so no issue
Kiwathing is the one that hurt me
But my monk dorf cotank can handle fine so Hé take him
Dorf remove bleeding stacks, but BOP Doesn't
marble cipher
we no longer have monk tanks, cause ... I was the monk tank
But yeah, the bleed removal on dorfs is op in niche fights
old zephyr
Warrior /monk is à pretty well balanced duo
ionic fern
Paku isn't a problem on HC either.
marble cipher
@old zephyr we're three tanks in the guild, I have warrior and monk (maining warrior this tier), and the others both have BDK cause they just don't want to keep another tank ready
so, warior + BDK will have to do this tier I guess
old zephyr
Bdk is never too bad
marble cipher
It's quite good to have one yeah, grips always nice, and better for magic hits
old zephyr
And mass grip has uses in the6raid
trim bay
Hey guys. I have asked this before just want some clarification. Most strats I read say to tank swap the first boss to drop your stacks. How did you do it I. Heroic? Tank swap after the adds die? Then the boss tank goes to adds etc etc? Or do you soak all the stacks till they naturally fall off? I’m taking a bit of damage so just want to get it right
Thanks again. Any advice would be great. I have been pugging the first boss just to iron it out but none of the other tanks know anything
You can wait till it casts wave of light heroic leap then spell reflect. But then the boss moves and screws up the raid
old zephyr
Unless the time between swings is changing from NM you6can reflect to reset stacks
Nothing fancy to do
Just user reflect when your de buff is at 65% time remaining
lavish oracle
Yeah, I hit reflect around 7 seconds remaining
Drops stacks 90% of the time.
The other 10% I kite during a cast to drop stacks
old zephyr
My main issue is I can't see the blinding effect cast and get screwed by turning back too early
lavish oracle
While kiting, you mean?
Otherwise, just tank the boss so you're not facing the adds ever
trim bay
Ahh ok so wait for 6-7 seconds remaining on the Debuff and cast spell reflect and that should drop it? If not kite
old zephyr
Yeah
lavish oracle
Whats smashing you in particular?
I try to always have a CD of somekind up for the throw
ionic fern
If you have paladins in the raid you can ask for a BoP when he picks you up - this way he won't throw you at all, just picks you up and puts back down
lavish oracle
If your orb carrier can manage it, they can interrupt the combo with tantrum too
quiet tinsel
Sorry for noob question, with Grong boss, is it better to taunt at 2 stacks or before the other tank gets 2 stacks of either debuff?
ionic fern
"The main thing to keep track of here is Bestial Smash, and to taunt after this happens to spread the Crushed debuff. However, if the boss casts Rending Bite twice in a row use that opportunity to taunt so that one tank doesn't potentially have 3 of these."
quiet tinsel
awesome ty vm, ill make note of this
ionic fern
Check out tanknotes.tk for strategies & Class trips/tricks for all the bosses.
sullen jungle
Hey guys just got this piece. with BoM and Callous Reprisal. I already got 1 BoM which would you take? 😄
ionic fern
The 2nd BoM. 😉
quiet tinsel
aye will do ty
sullen jungle
Callous that bad for dps and abit of survival compared to BoM?
ionic fern
Stacking BoM is the way to go for DPS..atleast AoE DPS.
sullen jungle
Got ya. got Double BoM and BfI atm :p
pallid dragon
Hey noticed smmt interesting on Jadefire masters. Spell reflecting the mage triggers a burnout on the raid when the debuff drops off https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/g8jaLQTHvX6WyYPp#fight=22&type=damage-taken&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24282037^0%24Separate%24%23DF5353%24auras-gained%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24144693.0.0.Boss%24false%24282037&ability=282041&start=9787458&end=9802741
gaunt dawn
🤔 interesting
thats what we in the business call a bug
bug report it please 😃
updated TankNotes with it though 👍
pallid dragon
cool
vocal nimbus
while you are at it @gaunt dawn
v
woops
[Heroic] They are able to see the correct button to press for other people but not their own so they will need to communicate over voice comms or in game.
cant see your own in normal neither
vocal nimbus
👍
thorny laurel
which traits are the best for damage in M+? I assume Bastion of Might is one? What else?
iron osprey
Worth dropping a 385 Hight Haste/Low Crit ring for a 400 High Vers/Low Mast ring? 🤔
vocal nimbus
Yep
sly lintel
I wish booming and devastator wasnt same talent
Getting tried in my hand spamming dev xd
iron osprey
Shouldn't be spamming dev though unless nothing else to hit?
sly lintel
spam it when its nothing else to do ye
honest canopy
Leveled a warrior and it will be my main as prot for the rest of my time i prob play this game.
I find one thing confusing tho, iv read here i should just go for ilvl, IV and TN says Haste is higest
sly lintel
I tried arms yesterday..... slam thingy -> bladestorm -> Killed our grp loads of time
honest canopy
Anyone can help me out? I am sitting and gemming and enchanting my stuff atm
sly lintel
Best thing ever
ionic fern
@honest canopy ilvl is what you want to go for on pieces that grant you STR - so anything other than rings & trinkets.
Haste is your best secondary stat since it helps you smooth out damage due to lower CD on SB etc.
sick sentinel
how about bloodsport for M+ ? i want to try 3xBoM, 1xDC and 2x BS. Should i take BFI or IF instead ?
uneven mason
IF
ionic fern
I would probably take IF or BfI over Bloodsport
uneven mason
1DC 3xBoM 2xIF is king
IP is going to get eaten fast anyway
IF has a big offensive component to it as well.
sick sentinel
i m looking for increase survivability against bleeds and magic dmg, but im a bit confused. BS just increase the size of the absorb, so it's a bit harsh to see when it's really valuable
cold owl
50k IP is 50% of a 100k magic hit. 42k IP would reduce the 84k, but you'd take the 16k raw (no other mitigation considered). 42+16 or 50. You reduced 8k additional damage with BS. Which is pretty marginal
Simplified numbers.
eager phoenix
When it comes to the big bleeds and magic dmg on trash in m+ I try to plan a route so I can either skip as much as possible of it and/or make sure I use CDs and externals when I do have to fight them head on. Sometimes you can also CC to leave them last and/or kite. In AD, for example, the big undead guards apply a nasty bleed but you can skip a lot on the undead side altogether with shroud or simply run the living side with trolls instead. Especially now that we don't have to deal with infest it makes being creative with routes a lot easier. However, if you opt to kill trash on the undead side you can simply kite the guards before stacks become lethal. The zerkers in KR are a bit more annoying and might be best (easier?) to man up, have CDs /externals ready and make sure dps is killing them off first.
sick sentinel
zerkers are a pain. IP desapear instantly, but yeah, 8K damage is not that much, and we can spam IP anyway.
i will go 2xIF instead
Thx guys
The zerkersare more easily telegraphed when it comes to guessing when to dodge a bleed
Also we tend to deal with magic/dots pretty well just be smart about it
sick sentinel
Yeah, if I'm ever in a group where I can bait a dot onto a pet it's demo/bommy and boy it feels fucking great
Has anyone gotten the new 
yet? Haven't even been inside the raid yet, waiting for the weekend
indigo yacht
@lavish oracle Its the damage from the throw, both the cast and the actual throw itself. Its basically like 6 seconds of me being unable to do anything to try and mitigate the damage. even worse if I have a stack or 2 of the bleed. Ignore pain goes away from the first tick of the throw
chrome falcon
Hey so we can SR the fireball on the mage/monk boss
But does that hurt the raid when it times out?
pallid dragon
yes
sick sentinel
Tanked a a +12 freehold with 3 rings instead of 6 (unluck) and I was getting smacked
old zephyr
But if the stack is on you It's gonna hurt anyway
spice musk
Which Trinkets from that should i use in Raid and which in M+ and which should i replace first?
oh and i could have alchemist stone
jagged bay
hey does anyone know if shadow of elune is worth taking?
eager phoenix
@spice musk paint skills 6/6 and its all in german. But probably default Jes and Rezans for most content.
astral crystal
tfw no 415 rezan's FeelsBadMan
ionic fern
Mine's only 395. 😧
spice musk
@eager phoenix even when rezan is so low ilvl
?
i did over 100 Atal Dazar just no luck with this trinket :x
uneven mason
I haven't done 100 but I've only seen 2 drop and none were titanforged or out of 10s (I always saw it drop in pity runs that were like 6s)
Alchemist stone is probably going to be the best paired with the raid trinket defensively
spice musk
okay
uneven mason
Although
healing pots not scaling ugh
works on health stones iirc
so if you stack last stand with RC and the alchemist trinket
lock cookie is a 50% heal!
of your normal health that is
frosty holly
How are the dif tanks looking right now? Couple of friends started up again on Ally and was pondering to send one of my tanks over. Will be doing a mix of M+ and light raiding. Out of BDK, Prot war and Veng DH what would be the best to Faction change on?
uneven mason
I'd suggest either prot warrior or BDK, depends on how high you want to take keys in M+
Prot can tank high keys just fine, BDK has a large utility toolkit that we don't really replicate
but we do more damage than DPS
and are far more durable
so if your friends can bring the utility (grip, strong snare, ranged interrupt)
go Prot
and make them cry at the damage meters
frosty holly
Ye i enjoy prot the most right now. Sadly the friends don't bring a ton to the table utility wise so was pondering about the DK simply to bring some order into it
uneven mason
it is considerably easier to herd cats on a BDK
I run mine as my alt tank, and compared to prot I feel like I'm tanking on a wet papertowel
but, the utility is undeniable
frosty holly
Ya I've felt that also. A lot more kiting on BDK now after the nerf but having all that utility in M+ feels so damn good 😦
Have the artifact knowledge started up again btw?
patent flower
On heroic conclave with the guild and got some Jaina experience...deffinately making the switch from blood to prot...woot woot. Mobility / physical dmg mitigation are going to be really strong this tier for sure.
keen galleon
Ya some of these fights even in the start seem like bdk would be crying
3rd boss has tons of movement
uneven mason
BDK isn't horrible to be fair
on the jadefire combo
they're champs for tanking that mage
I'm squeeling like a piglet the entire time cause fireball frigging hurts and I Can't generate enough RPS to keep IP up 100% of the time
esp when he goes phoenix form
and suddenly his melee attacks are literally "Thrash, but made of fire"
dusk locust
how many stacks you swapping at
uneven mason
10~
the DoT doesn't hurt
its the DD
we tried to only swap for the monk debuff
but when it goes kaboom at 26 stacks
its uh
well, not good for the raid
thats like 200k damage
I did find out that even with the 100% Physical damage buff
the monk is laughable
"Oh no don't punch my shield over and over"
also TFW your raid leader tells you there is no way you survive 2 Smashes on Grog
and you introduce him to warrior
patent flower
Your not wrong...the movement is why i am switching mains. F that.
patent flower
3 is a death sentence
dusk locust
we taunted the monk and mage as completely separate entities rather than swapping both each time, so sometimes i had both bosses and sometimes my co-tank did
seemed to be alright on heroic
patent flower
We made sure to taunt at around 10 stacks...it wasnt an issue at all.
dusk locust
we were trying to minimize raid wide damage when the stacks expired
but yeah 10 stacks isn't a huge deal either
we were taunting around 5 on the mage
patent flower
Thats fair
dusk locust
idea being if the monk left and you had to hold the mage longer than you'd like, at worst you'd get to like 8 or 10
once all dps was in the habit of leaning into the monk specifically we were skipping dragon mechanics entirely, which is unfortunate imo
patent flower
Dragon mechanics were wack
dusk locust
yeah but they're interesting and require coordination
i'd hate to just never see them for the whole tier
except for a few weeks on mythic
chrome falcon
Did anyone else have the bug on monk/mage
We wiped to fire orb our first attempt then our second attempt the orbs literally didnt' spawn and it was a joke
patent flower
2
chrome falcon
yeah i dunno we just straight up didn't get an orb cast on our second pull
dusk locust
i've seen others say that too
some people were saying if they lusted on pull they wouldn't happen (which doesn't make sense of course since it's energy based)
dusk locust
hm
dusk locust
we were lusting on the orbs but tbh we could probably just lust on pull
uneven mason
and he'd spin his head around at stare at me while still fireballing the other tank
very creepy
dusk locust
ya it seems to be like mistress was, where if you taunt the cast still finishes on the original target
so you actually need to taunt one fireball sooner
dusk locust
well that's pretty weird
uneven mason
I had him go tuant immune trying to putt it off the other tank
mmhmm
had a wipe because it ahppened to me, I hit 26stacks
cause the other tnak literally couldn't pull the mage off of me
dusk locust
sometimes it's not a bad idea to check the logs and make sure the story checks out 😛
patent flower
There was some taunting issues on conclave...so I would believe it.
chrome falcon
yeah so how does aggro on that boss work
signal plover
Jadefire is buggy as hell if your raid dps is high it seems
chrome falcon
because half the time when i taunted the monk
the mage started hitting me too
is that intentional?
signal plover
We haven't had any issues with threat on it tho
signal plover
Are u sure it wasn't in like the line of sight cloud on the orb when u were trying to taunt it?
sick sentinel
Otherwise assume that's how it works
chrome falcon
we didn't have orbs the boss never cast it
signal plover
We did see that
chrome falcon
oh and speaking of conclave, jesus, that boss does a lot of damage
that is a seriously nasty bleed
chrome falcon
it's funny because pa'ku does literally nothing
patent flower
a bit overtuned
chrome falcon
i let her get up to 40 stacks, where she capped out, and was still able to almost entirely ignore her
patent flower
Gronk doesnt hurt either
signal plover
I'm thinking of maybe even killing paku 3rd
edgy mango
Quick Q, do you need to have the legion artifact equipped to get progress for the 10 legion dungeons appearance for the mage tower appearance? Or does it work if I have it mogged?
chrome falcon
i thought they patched it so you didn't even need it equipped?
edgy mango
No clue, haven't started anything yet :p
patent flower
You dont need to equip it and you cant get mage tower skins anymore
uneven mason
You can get the tints if you have the base.
and yes Havok you must have it equpped.
you have to complete the dungeons while using a challenge apperance
edgy mango
Aight, cheers
uneven mason
Any warriors NA Alliance confirm if the emmisary is a 1h or 2h?
Or is it one of the fixed caches that will actually give you loot spec now.
native venture
hey fellas
sturdy sable
I got a 1 handed mace out of it in prot spec @uneven mason
native venture
any idea how we read out our blocked dmg values?
uneven mason
👍
native venture
details is not working 4 me on that regard
uneven mason
dunno how to setup details ask in #ui-addons-manager
marble cipher
Is "Overwhelming Power" an underwhelming trait cause we're constantly taking damage?
(as a tank)
keen galleon
I thought it was 1ppm?
sand egret
@marble cipher I actually really like OP as a tank. While it does have diminished value in higher mob pulls, the trait has a 1 second ICD so you still get a minimum value on each proc
the benefit comes in the ST scenario on bosses who don't swing too often
marble cipher
oh, good to know
sand egret
resulting in a very large haste boost. so factor that in for your descision making. I personally use it and like it. It rounds out my strengths as I generally run the aoe shitfest build =0
astral crystal
what addon are you using that shows rppm?
astral crystal
neat
hoary dune
Anybody had luck with reckless flurry in m+? I see the top pvp prot warriors using it and had no idea the auto attack portion worked as prot
stark sage
it wouldnt be good in m+, since its effect is completely single target
stark sage
auto attack damage and reck CD
sand egret
ahhh gotcha. Yeah AFAIK traits aren't restricted by spec in most senses. Like how Arms can run Bastion of Might and get A) mega Deep Wounds and B) it gives you an IP lol.
(which is QUITE fun to mess around with if you got a 2-3x BoM set)
stark sage
that's funny
sand egret
yeah the deep wounds buff during it is real haha
stark sage
all 3 specs can use gathering storm which buffs bladestorm/ravager
sand egret
the ravager component is interesting, actually. As you'd think they'd be different spell ID's but they are in fact linked
uneven mason
the difference is in the aura
formal hornet
wanna ask does the block rate of azerite trait iron fortress stack?
sand egret
yes
sand egret
as a general rule, if the value scales with item level then it stacks
aka Deafening Crash. Damage stacks, CDR value doesnt scale and therefore doesn't stack
there may be exceptions but I've yet to find one
uneven mason
Situationally
uneven mason
IF wil lbe much stronger for M+
sand egret
but as Mac said, IF does jack shit against magic, for instance.
uneven mason
and most boss fight
however, BS is stronger for stuations that you can't block
Bleeds, DoTs and magic damage
formal hornet
like fortified zul?
sand egret
YEP
formal hornet
KR zul i mean
uneven mason
right well
Zul in general BS is better
cause in Uldir his main source of I"ma make you a bitch was his bleed
I survived 4 stacks repeatedly thanks to 2x BS
made IP a powerhouse
sand egret
yeah Zul in general aint got time for AM
uneven mason
BUt case in point, shit like Grong
IP is strong
because a LOT of his damage can't be blocked
I know I played well and still only had 55% Mitigation because he does a lot of DoTs/Nature damage
as opposed to raw physical bosses where if I'm under 75% Mit I know I fucked up
sand egret
as a side note, BS is a trait I wouldn't mind as my 2x setup to mess with when I get all my 5th rings.
formal hornet
i was thinking in the long run 1 IF 1 Brace 1 DC 2 BS and 1 BoM
sand egret
what content do you run mostly?
formal hornet
i would say most likely its M+
sand egret
i would invest more into BoM
personally i'm going for the dream, 3x
with 1 DC and 2x (experimenting.....)
it's a truckload of mastery out of BoM, which leads to crazy damage AND upwards of 75%+ crit block rate
little hawk
Which ones to pick, pretty confused atmo. Disc of Systematic regression 370, Lion's Roar 380 and Jes' Howler 🤔
uneven mason
1DC 2IF 3BOM
sand egret
roar and howler
uneven mason
Uh, Lion's and Jes
topaz badger
Should I replace my 370 item with a 385 one if I lose DC?
uneven mason
personal preference
topaz badger
yeah
sand egret
yeah the extra stat budget on the newer items would make it a decent swap imho.
signal plover
New shit has extra Stam too
topaz badger
I have 3 rings unlocked on 370 item and only 1 ring on the new one though
signal plover
U can grind that AP pretty quick now
sand egret
just means its a closer decision that will get more clear as you level AP. so that's up to you
sand egret
np
topaz badger
oh maybe something else, did 8.1 change something to our talent tree?
modern brook
the only thing that'll change our talent tree is a complete class rework
Warriors arent allowed to have talents
sand egret
well, as long as the power balance of certain talents exist...yeah perty much haha.
classic case of too much synergy haha
modern brook
all tanks dont really get talent choices
Across the board tank trees are pretty cut and dry
Warrior's just unique in that like 40% of our effectiveness lies in 2 talents
sand egret
i'd say 3 😃
uneven mason
They're all pretty cyclic with AM being at the center of it
sand egret
it's AM driving it all really
modern brook
I excluded mongo stomp man because I was refering to our ability t o just mitigate damage
but yeah 3
AM should not exist, or be baseline
uneven mason
It should be baseline
modern brook
Its way to central to Prot identity to be a talent
tropic star
they would have to nerf a bunc of stuff if they made it baseline
uneven mason
buff a bunch of stuff
modern brook
Its already baseline mc
if you're not running AM ur a meme
its just a talent tax
they wont have to nerf anything
tropic star
just remove 100 talent tier and give us am baseline
is good
tropic star
but if they nerfed us then we could all live the secret dream we have of taking bladestorm thing
modern brook
@uneven mason just take a bunch of gathering storms
modern brook
100%
uneven mason
and increase it to 100% parry
modern brook
its the damage option on the teir
modern brook
having it be literally weaker than HR is dumb
sand egret
they need to like triple it's damage
formal hornet
Baseline AM with parry storm sounds so op
zinc urchin
hey guys is there a haste hard or soft cap for prot?
modern brook
nope
sand egret
newp
modern brook
Ilvl>haste>whatever you want fam
tropic star
on to day 2 and im still handing on to that opulence DPS parse lol
modern brook
verse mast crit all good in different scenarios
zinc urchin
thanks a lot 😃
modern brook
haste good in all scenarios
uneven mason
have AMs replacement be Thunderclap drags mobs in
formal hornet
yeah man
modern brook
jokes aside, a displacement on thunderclap would be so cash
doesnt have to be grip strong
sand egret
i'll take, OP as fuck for 300, Trebek
formal hornet
everytime i thunderclap i always have the dream of it vacuuming adds to the point
modern brook
how do you move them 😠
sand egret
mostly because if it happened on every clap it'd be perma interupts haha
would totally need an ICD
modern brook
No seriously
I need help w/ Champion of light
No clue how im supposed to move mobs out of conc
sand egret
i got nothing for ya fam, sorry haha. I ain't really stepping foot in that place this expac
modern brook
im just trying to get some early heroic gear so i can push M+
My guild is no longer dead so i might actually do mythic progression for once
thats exciting
sand egret
sounds legit if that's an option
modern brook
CoL seems fake as fuck though
pretty sure no one understands the fight and we still downed it at like 200 stacks
sand egret
it IS the first boss
tropic star
i still like hte idea of adding something to leap
modern brook
^ a vacuum on leap would be cool
tropic star
its a long enough CD to have some effect added and then having to choose to use it for mobility or utility
vaccuum lea[
or ground effects get dispelled on leap
sand egret
my issue with adding things to leap is that it puts leap into a more "active" role in our rotation which is weird for a mobility spell. Similiar to how VDH use Inferno Strike as a dps cd.
it's less for them since they have multiple charges and a short cd, but I'm not a huge fan of creating those player choices
tropic star
knockback leap
sand egret
you create a lot of unnecessary friction
sand egret
:sideeye:
modern brook
its just 👀
sand egret
naw, this is more me glaring 😃
modern brook
😙
^3^
A displacement effect that overrides our AoE slam as a replacement talent for the CDR
tropic star
or hell if you wanted something different/unique give up a ranged disarm type thing
tropic star
so that we can disarm archers in but still have to interrupt casters
modern brook
Meh Honestly at the end of the day; im pretty ok with warriors utility being shit
sick sentinel
I'm not
modern brook
it means we're allowed to do 12K more than other tanks on pulls
and be 100% justified when we go yeah but no grip
sick sentinel
Give me Death Strike and remove DKs
tropic star
topping dps on all the trash in BoD is amusing
snow lance
warriors have hella utility.
open bluff
So these weapon caches from emissaries, can they have shields for prot?
sand egret
(which unfortunately in a game like WoW, matters a lot)
open bluff
Or only 1H?
sand egret
good question, i've never seen one personally
open bluff
(Not that I need a shield on my warrior, but my pally's shiny new 1H could use a buddy)
sand egret
but i'd imagine a weapon cache should have it for prot spec now that they respect your spec
but cum grano salis, on this
chilly brook
Nah dude
Shields are armor@
Oh wait
But they also can’t titanforge because they’re “weapons”
🤔
uneven mason
shields offhands can coem from weapons caches
which I'll be extremely mad
if I get a 385 shield
after going all of Uldir without getting a single shield
but getting a 400 my first kill in BFD
sand egret
lol, so it's pretty much guaranteed then
chilly brook
Oof
open bluff
Basically
modern brook
My only loot drop out of 2 days of raiding was a 10 ilvl upgrade wrist 😠
chilly brook
Now you’re not getting anything higher than a 400 the rest of the tier 😜
open bluff
I only got 30 shields on my warrior last tier so
sand egret
i was rocking my 375 1hander for a majority of 8.0
sand egret
then...first cache.....a 1hander
open bluff
Hopefully when I get off work it'll be a weapon
uneven mason
all of them 370 and below
open bluff
See mine were consistently upgrades
Ended the tier with a 385 haste/mastery from AD
But a 385 main hand would still be a minor upgrade
sand egret
I ran TD with some Fury war a while back and a 370 shield dropped. He just linked me this 340 shield.....I swear I could hear fucking Sarah Mclachlan singing in the background
chilly brook
For old times sake, RIP DC