Here. Its janky but it will let you figure things out
#protection
inland mesa
Paladin, you traitor
main vault
For Pally sure
keen galleon
It's got two tabs???
inland mesa
lol
keen galleon
I did both. Because I'm fucking psychotic.
modern brook
are the colors just to identify traits by things other then their name or do they mean something
signal plover
I mean that explains the BV/DC pov
keen galleon
Colors were loosely keyed to green being defensive, yellow requires 1 copy of trait, red is weak/strong offense
little rain
what in the world is this color coding
keen galleon
But like I said its janky and not complete
keen galleon
It's also missing traits I considered garbage
Except in cases where a ring had only garbage traits
I.e. the ignore pain trait isnt listed anywhere
main vault
Ah mine has all the traits
inland mesa
share yours 😄
keen galleon
I was in a hurry ok :p
main vault
And a section for dungeon traits in case I ever feel dumb and wanna buy one
little rain
Before I make a copy of this and start to redo it for my own reference, are these all the dungeon/raid azerites or did you add non-conventional sourced azerites like engineering, darkshore, world bosses etc?
keen galleon
Engineering is listed. Pvp is not listed. Azerite capping under 415 is not listed.
final mist
Jesus, my eyes
keen galleon
So world boss azerite is a no since it caps under 415.
final mist
The colors on the spreadsheet are a real piece of work fam
main vault
lol
keen galleon
Yeah it works for me I know my taste in spreadsheets pisses people off
steady hawk
more like confused
steady hawk
but once you explained your color coding it made more sense
keen galleon
bom is also bright blue because I wanted to see what options for 3x BOM were
Which isnt that hard
Champion of the light also has a really nice versatile azerite piece
I think iron fortress has a lot of potential
final mist
The shield on the inner trait rings
keen galleon
Oh yeah
keen galleon
I was salty about that
sand egret
the heal per hit every 6 lol
keen galleon
The defensive ring traits suuuuck
sand egret
resounding protection (RP) is the shield aka mini Prydaz
IV is honestly one of my fav traits overall as prot
keen galleon
IV and azerite veins both feel super good
sand egret
and we don't get chunked so us not having a bunch of health for a while isn't super common. anecdotally, AV rarely gets legit value and tends to overheal when it does proc
final mist
AV is good if it procs when you need it to.
modern brook
Gutripper sounds cooler though
sand egret
or it procs on a single hit and fizzles after one tick
keen galleon
Yeah on reflection you guys are right
sand egret
because that's what my scumbag trait does
keen galleon
Lol
sand egret
literally had boss fights where it didn't proc at all
keen galleon
What's the general consensus on iron fortress?
I was getting a pretty substantial amount of damage from it in m+
sand egret
but on the flip side, I had an AD last night where I was sitting low with bleed stacks from the zombies and it proc'd. Boy did that feel good.
keen galleon
Brace for impact is likely better defensively tho
modern brook
IF is really good in any content where 55-80% of your damage intake is melee attacks
sand egret
my 2 cents between the two is that IF will scale better in most M+
modern brook
generally thats m+
sand egret
but BFI will come ahead the less targets/melees there are
keen galleon
I ran a 370 IF piece and it was nearly 2% of my damage done
Yeah. That makes sense blade.
sand egret
Unfortunately I don't have another IF piece to do my side by side with my 2x BFI
keen galleon
BFI also falls behind anytime you're scumbagging clap/revenge and ignoring your shield slam procs
Not that I would ever do that
Cough cough
sand egret
yeah, which is more likely in Avatar phase
when you'll delay a SS proc for that TClap
keen galleon
If I'm going ham on a big pull I can usually just alternate tclap revenge for the entire duration of avatar
sand egret
on the flip side, it DOES feel great this week for explosive sniping 😃
main vault
IV is my fav tanking trait overall
sand egret
even a 1-point wonder. does ~20-22% of my healing at one stack. goes up to ~24-28% at 2 stacks of it
keen galleon
That's odd. Shouldn't it scale linearly?
sand egret
and it can crit
main vault
Amount would, % wouldn’t
sand egret
^
main vault
Yeh lol
sand egret
now that I think about it my ideal setup will be 1x IV and 2x RP
keen galleon
Storm wall blockade has your chest lol
Not really a good dungeon option :(
I need to look at pvp azerite but since its 100% random and you have to be good enough to hit 2100..
To put it kindly I am not expecting to get any 415 azerite from pvp
main vault
I wish I could get into PvP at all, its actually a decent source of gear
keen galleon
It's an amazing source of gear
If I was even vaguely competent at it I would do a ton
keen galleon
Battlefield Focus is strong but stronger for other tanks than us.
The one that drops a banner that buffs the group is strong but not for you personally.
I.e. it wont show up on your meters
That basically covers the relevant pvp traits as far as I know?
I guess maybe if your m+ group is 3 plate dps and you the one that drops a str banner could be ok.
But in that scenario you clearly aren't optimizing sooooo
vocal elm
How good is the alch trinket?
keen galleon
I've heard so-so.
main vault
Its pgud
keen galleon
Unless that's changed recently.
main vault
Id wait to craft the Tidalcore one, unless you dont care about the mats
keen galleon
My personal philosophy on crafted gear is jewelcrafting > engineering/alchemy > blacksmithing
Jewelcrafting is a 415 socketed ring
Which given how valuable sockets on rings are is very likely to be bis unless you get a perfect warforge in mythic.
Especially since you can fish for perfect secondaries on the crafted ring.
sick sentinel
If you have the gold for it, best bet is to just pick and choose based on what you pickup first couple of weeks
Knowing my luck I wont get any azerite until Jaina dies on mythic
👀
cold owl
I'm pretty stoked to have a helm pretty quickly off engi.
keen galleon
I'm just happy to not have to participate in the "how many ilevels should I piss away for DC" debate
Engie helm is 415 and has DC so wheeeee
sick sentinel
The first person to hit 3x DC 3x BoM
is going to break damage meters
my body is ready
I already do 15-18k in 19s and 20s
I cant wait for that setup and reaping
oh my lord
keen galleon
You think stacking DC will be the best damage option we have vs general traits?
thin ore
what to wear?
stark sage
370
sick sentinel
For sure, admittedly your second and third DC don't have as much value as the first, but they're still an insane DPS trait
Combo'd with 3x BoM's
holy moly
keen galleon
Hmmmm. Fair enough.
modern brook
BoM = Big Ol' Foot.
keen galleon
I haven't had any BOM traits at all to play with which makes me sad.
steady dragon
jesus christ tanking zul M on prot is spooky as fuck
steel mauve
Neither?
Technically if you wanted pure defense either ghuun trinket, but its dog shit, or the argument of fathoms because dead shit doesnt do dmg
sick sentinel
God damn DKs @steady dragon 😄
steel mauve
Ghuun has more str is the only arguement for defense value
sick sentinel
press shout and wall harder and pray
thin ore
well char is 48h old, no other choices so far^^
steady dragon
man it was spook
steel mauve
Nvm i thought it had str
steel mauve
The vers would beat str in defensive value
modern brook
ghuun trinket is vers?
steel mauve
But ghuuns proc is shit regardless
thin ore
jeah, it also has avoidance
steel mauve
I would go fathoms over it just because it has more value imo
modern brook
Id say go fathoms
STR is just good
Verse is pretty eh
neithers proc does anything for defense
steel mauve
And fathoms has a pretty good proc conpare to tendrils
sick sentinel
Dogshit has more value than ghunn trinket
modern brook
full credit to ghuun trinket, Its more versetile than dog shit
sick sentinel
Lol
purely dr wise, they are really close together, with tentybro being the tiniest bit ahead
but yeah, pretty much what everyone said
fathoms
fuck tentybro
vocal elm
Will M0 azerite gear be 370 with two outer rings on Tuesday?
jade socket
yes
outer whale
hey the quest for The Arcanite Bladebreaker is up for me
just fyi in case its up for any of you
vocal nimbus
Should be up in all your region then
If i remember correctly it was a regionwide trigger
daring marlin
epic
timber nest
for m+ would a 390 syringe be better than a 375 + socket vial of animated blood?
cuz burst dmg
or would the strength be better
inland mesa
both? what's the other trinket
timber nest
mythrax
inland mesa
at what ilvl, do you die a lot or proc it often?
stark sage
its really good for pushing
sick sentinel
holy shit thats a juicy vial wtf
inland mesa
the first two should give you more dps if you aren't in risk of dying
errr syringe vial
but if you're pushing and dying....or risking dying, mythrax makes sense, I run mythrax and syringe but I don't have vial and my group can only handle 16s
sick sentinel
if you play around your vial and avatar you'll get more value out of it than your syringe
inland mesa
I'd probably go syringe and vial and see if mythrax would have proc'd at all to save your life depending on how high you're pushing
would you go vial mythrax over the syringe though Prawn?
sick sentinel
generally no, but situationally mythrax has use in m+
and yeah it is decent for pushing
inland mesa
The M+ meme is 3 DC 3 BoM, which is nice two raid pieces have that, but raid prog outside of ilvl does anyone have an ideal set?
daring marlin
It’s almost like if you have certain trinkets, like the mythrax one; you could play like you have that extra mitigation on demand.
🤔
inland mesa
yeah Guilford, I started testing my group to see how big of pulls could they handle since I had the trinket haha
if I get cheat death one from BoD will go bigger
sick sentinel
did you actually increase your pull size with that trinket?
inland mesa
we've been scumbagging basic single pulls a lot, started doing 2-3 packs easier, group is just friends newer to M+ and pushing so trying to train them up for season 2, we just started in December, but we're clearing 15s in time
but it's been a nice o shit indictator I should kite until I'm topped kinda thing
nova rover
Ok considering trinkets having the Mythrax would you use the butcher or stockades?
inland mesa
I feel like I personally would get more out of the Mythrax Butcher if they're all 370 or more
nova rover
Blockades sorry derp derp
I believe 380
lemme double check
385
I have Blockades, Mythraz, Rezan at 380 and butchers block at 385
I usually swap blockades and Mythrax trinks
hushed cobalt
how does Treacherous Covenant look?
nova rover
Yea I was hoping bliz would do like last xpack and give us a way to upgrade it
inland mesa
Offensive - Rezan/Butcher, Defensive - Rezan/Mythrax, Mix with burst - Butcher/Mythrax
blockades unless you really feel the hp is needed isn't worth
quiet crane
Treacherous covenant dps wise is quite strong however depending on how shit either you’re or your heals I wouldn’t run it in prog
If you know you arnt experiences or your healers are trash don’t run it
sick sentinel
I would go rezan block
quiet crane
Defensively yeah it’s got it’s benefits but
I wouldn’t risk it in prog but on farm yeah defs pre strong in my opinion last I checked it’s like a full 700-800 strength wasn’t it?
sand egret
i too am partial to Rezan Block. Fastest and most regal of the blocks.
nova rover
Rezan Block it is
sand egret
hmm while I wasn't being serious with my pun, I'd :realtalk: say go with Rezan and (Butcher's) Block. Not Blockades, not at that ilvl difference tbh.
modern brook
is that glob or veins?
marble cipher
Glob
grand tiger
glob
modern brook
Not that one
marble cipher
Left top is overwhelming power or thunderous blast right?
modern brook
OP
marble cipher
Take that
modern brook
Tblast is like a straight line
grand tiger
overwhelming
marble cipher
Op is haste, haste is lovely
modern brook
🤷
keen galleon
Isnt OP the one that drops on melee hit
If so it's pretty bad in m+ and winds is pretty good in m+
modern brook
OP has an internal cd
keen galleon
I mean you're still losing 2 stacks/sec
keen galleon
Yeah fair. I really like 100% uptime on 2-3% more dodge but that's just me
modern brook
Assuming you lose 2/sec Op is roughly 375 haste Avg over its duration
where as Winds equates to about 2.5% dodge
@390 ilvl
sand egret
definitely take OP over all those options
stark sage
isnt OP's ICD 1 stack per second
modern brook
I think so
1stack/second from damage + 1stack/second from its natural decay is what i was operating under
stark sage
i see
keen galleon
Is OP 1ppm?
sand egret
ya
keen galleon
Cuz if so bleh I've been badly undervaluing OP
modern brook
i think so
sand egret
it's really strong
keen galleon
thanks for correcting me
sand egret
and significantly more so on boss encounters where you have longer swing timers / gaps in swings
keen galleon
Yeah was gonna say
Its strictly better any time you have periods without melee hits
sand egret
even in the trash scenario, at it's worst it's a burst of haste to help get that SB charge back up
if it lasts a bit (i'm not sure if a parry drops the stack, if so then crit has more value with that trait) then you can crank out a lot of mileage from it. It's like a mini-lust
compared to Gobs (LOL) and Winds of War i'd say it's a slam dunk
modern brook
im p sure perfect mitigation doesnt drop stacks
sand egret
yeah i wouldn't think so, but I've not confirmed this either
modern brook
I def woulda just hammered OP because winds of war doesnt make my stomps stronger
and lol globs
sand egret
TLDR: even if we're getting beat, OP still provides us a good chunk of value for a mid-ring trait
modern brook
OP gives a little over 100 less Haste at max stacks than blood rite does
keen galleon
Wow bloodrite is that good
???
Oof.
I may need to fit a copy of that into my m+ build
Is there any data anywhere on the chances of gear titanforging?
modern brook
if you're asking for actual %age I dont think there is anything confirmed
main vault
They wont ever officially say
sand egret
tbh remember blood rite is an outer ring trait vs OP which is a mid-ring
keen galleon
Sure but blood rite also has a shockingly high uptime in m+
sand egret
true but it competes with like BoM
keen galleon
Idk why but i assumed it was less haste
It wont be competing w BOM next week
Itll be competing with IF, Revenge Trait, or DC
sand egret
but yes, it's a lot of haste and would have increased uptime in M+ most likely
depending on the piece, yeah
even then, i would take DC over it anywho
what i'm trying to say is that the relative power is diff so keep that in mind
sand egret
idk i've never used it
modern brook
I used it on shoulders for arms for a while
sand egret
well, maybe once by accident
modern brook
granted i was raiding at the time
sand egret
wouldn't be surprised if it had a lower-than-average proc rate to compensate for the extension possibility
and in principle, i'm not a huge fan of feast/famine design
keen galleon
Nvm it does compete with bom.
Only piece that has blood rite from dungeons doesn't have bom
I expected there to be more than 1 piece from dungeons lol.
sand egret
i'll be fine "settling" for BoM 😃
also, i'm pretty sure Blood Rite is a zone-specific affix to Nazmir and there's only Underrot
keen galleon
Yep that is exactly the case.
modern brook
TIL traits are relevant to where you get them outside of uldir too
or rather
I learned what blade just said
However u wanna word that
sand egret
each “generic” trait is themed to its source zone or drop source (WFs, PvP, etc)
modern brook
^that's what I learned
next stone
Is there a cap to haste i should worry about or just get as much as i can
main vault
All of it
steel mauve
no caps
dark crypt
Hey, we are shuffling up our tanks for BoD and messing aroundin M uldir with the new setup. Assuming equally geared, who would you guys have MT/OT for Fetid between pally/warrior?
steady hawk
im MT of my guild and I always take the OT role for fetid, the damage reduction is fantastic for warrior , its a big physical hit on a decently regular timer.
dark crypt
Right, I was only asking about that fight
But thanks for the input! He has been mt while my Brm was offtanking
main vault
War is the highest pure mit on that fight out of any tank
final mist
Warrior will do both best, Paladin will handle Thrashes better than he will MTing however.
daring marlin
^^^this
neon tangle
Id def do pally for OT
Their immunities are worthless as MT
And MT takes more damage anyways, might as well use the higher mitigation tank for it
uneven mason
Fetid is one of the fewfights that tanks that are not warrior really struggle with
progressing on him, my paladin co tank taking thrashes just gets destroyed sub 50% once his immunities are out
BDK used to be supreme for it
neon tangle
DK is super sketchy for it now
uneven mason
but after that armor nerf its possible for them to be 1shot sub 50%
can't heal back from dead.
neon tangle
Just gotta stack stam
uneven mason
if they DON'T get 1 shot tho, still pretty primo for it
doubling up on DS for each thrash is pretty spiffy.
neon tangle
Always fun to be top of the healing charts
Also honestly it’s more of an issue with WOTN
That fight was made for it
uneven mason
yeah, 12.8~% EHP nerf
main vault
There is a spreadsheet, think mine was like 8.7% or something
uneven mason
just enough to get you ded
prime pasture
Finally liberated of my servant splitter. Hallelujah.
abstract geyser
using bastion, if and deaf crash
lavish oracle
So you'd be replacing the bastion with archive? Or the IF?
abstract geyser
bastion replaces arch
dont have another shoulder piece
other shoulders are bloodsport instead of IF
lavish oracle
Oh, yeah, BoM over archive for M+
abstract geyser
ty!
cold kettle
Strength in Numbers or Heed My Call? I"m a low level newb.
lavish oracle
Heed my call unless you really need the survivability
silk moat
should we socket haste 100% of the time, or is there some variation, like maybe mastery?
lavish oracle
100% haste, afaik
I can't think of a situation in which mastery would beat out haste
thorn torrent
so i just got a 370 syringe do i replace my 355 blockades or 345 jes howler?
lavish oracle
Howler
main vault
Yup
fringe basin
holy hell do i miss prot pvp 😦
oak edge
So I'm planning to change my main tanking toon from DH to warrior for BfD, what would you guys suggest as a 2nd tank toon? Veng, blood or brew.
My Co tank is brew only.
I'm leaning towards blood but idk..
merry cave
Anything outside of another war :P
signal plover
BDK for grip memes
although there doesn't seem to be too much grippable shit in BoD
true plover
Dual monk isn't the best thing though so gogo BDK
oak edge
Yeah was thinking pally, but he is way undergeared atm.
main vault
Well anything will be atgm
But if your tanks are Monk and War, youll want a magic tank
keen galleon
Paladin is a lot of fun.
but you won't want paladin as the 3rd option there
imho dk is obvious
you'll only use it for cheese fights but that's fine
main vault
Paladin is always a decent raid tank, why wouldnt you want one
keen galleon
it's not particularly great at magic damage, it's weakest on fights that require full time tanking which many of the later bosses require, and there's almost no situation where you'd go "fuck, my warrior just can't do this, GET MY PALADIN"
whereas grip will potentially be a big deal on the 8th boss
keen galleon
if you're willing to pick the third best tank at something why bother asking what you should play?
main vault
Because some people play classes that are fun and not FotM?
keen galleon
sure, but they don't ask "what should I play"
keen galleon
OK, so your argument is we should tell them to play a bad choice because they might like it? I'm legit confused.
If they really like paladin, they should play paladin.
main vault
My argument is Paladin is not a bad choice
keen galleon
if they're trying to optimize their second tank to cover raid weaknesses, they should pick blood DK
main vault
Just because something isnt the best doesnt make it bad
keen galleon
sure, but the odds of him hot-swapping to paladin mid Dazar'Alor prog are essentially 0 unless he wants to for personal reasons
main vault
He also never said anything about swapping mid prog or anything?
keen galleon
It sounded like his question was in the context of 'what second raid tank should I have ready'
main vault
You know what happens when you assume?
Thats why he was given options and reason, so he could make a decision
Not
DK is the best take it omegalul
keen galleon
so you don't think I offered reasons supporting my opinion?
I thought I had a pretty sound argument. 😦
main vault
The point is you went on about it, saying "you think we should them to play a bad choice" and etc
And saying DK is obvious
If you are asking in Discord what to play, you dont raid at a level it matters
keen galleon
"imho"
main vault
And are more likely to play something because you enjoy it
Not because it is best
but you won't want paladin as the 3rd option there
keen galleon
sure, in that case, he should play paladin because being glowy is fun and blood DK has boring animations
keen galleon
Sorry, I thought saying "in my opinion" once per paragraph was enough coverage.
sick sentinel
??????????????????????
This was some hot nonsense to read through, never thought I'd see someone try to justify paladin over BDK , especially it wasn't an option given
BDK covers any weakness you're likely to run into in BfD based on the setup you have
and Zaeron is right, looks like grip, especially mass is going to be high value on a couple of fights
and its obviously better in m+ aswell
main vault
Other than him saying he was thinking Pally too, but ok
Can read only part of it and think we know what we are talking about
Seems to be the norm
oak edge
Whoops. Didn't think a question would turn into what it did. I'm confident the warrior will serve me better than DH. Hense the swap to main tank toon. I was just curious to get others opinion on the recommended 2nd option if needed for any particular fight in BfD. I enjoy pally but didn't suggest it as I havent played much in BFA so the gear and HoA level are so far behind to outway any potential benefit of the class.
steep lily
So... what do people think of Bonded Souls or any of the other BoD azerite traits?
worth taking over any of the prot traits really?
final mist
Meh
We really don't have much room or usage for them, and the spec traits are generally stronger anyways
true plover
What do you guys use to kill explosives usually?
final mist
Shield Slam will 1-shot them
We don't really have much else to hit them other than Devastate
true plover
Worth dropping a SS into an orb?
Do revenge and tclap not dmg them if we target them?
final mist
They do not get hit by AoE
true plover
Ah, I thought it was changed so they would take dmg from aoe if they were the target during the cast.
tight tree
@oak edge Any combination of Warrior/DK/Brew will be good imo. I have Brew and Warrior geared for BDA, my cotank is Blood, for example. I highly doubt that there will be any fight with mandatory tank class, so just play what you enjoy. Blood will be hard after DH, because you will feel like cripple when all the mobility taken from you.
Nothing really feel as good as DH, mobility-wise. But mitigation-wise, Warrior will feel like brick wall compared to DH.
sharp night
it was changed so they would take damage from specifically abilities that bounce from one target to another, not true aoes
marble cipher
Between a 370 Rezan, 370 Vial, 370 Syringe, 375 str+mastery (on use), and a 385 alchemist stone.
What would you use for
a) raids
b) M+
(I'm using rezan + alch stone for both lately)
nova needle
Looking at the Engineering Goggle traits (the 385) 8.0.1 one. Are they any good?
Relational Normalize Gizmo or Synaptic Spark Capacitor?
nova needle
Huh?
marble cipher
I would think so too, the others (the on use ones especially) look nice for more M+ burst dps I guess
lavish oracle
@nova needle Was replying to Shinigami
On-use are nice because you can line them up with your avatar reliably, that's true
sick sentinel
if it's just damage, vial and emblazoned
good vial use in m+ is insanely good for your overall
marble cipher
"good vial use" meaning: during avatar I guess?
sick sentinel
Yeah during avatar, and lining it up as best you can with big pulls
marble cipher
kk, cause you can't use it for each avatar it seems, since cd is 1.5m and avatar is lower then that (most of the time) with AM
lavish oracle
What's the PPM on Alchemist stone? 1 + haste?
Vial should be up roughly every other avatar
marble cipher
I'll try and run a bit of 10 keys with it, see how the cd's line up in general
thanks for the info guys!
old zephyr
@lavish oracle What's the PPM on Alchemist stone? 1 + haste?
Seems to be roughly 1 PPM.
I usually have 20% uptime on the buff
lavish oracle
Alright, cool, ty
old zephyr
so It's a very cool trinket when you had 40% bonus on healthpots
marble cipher
and healthstones too iirc
hollow thorn
It doesnt affect Healthstones
old zephyr
no
hollow thorn
Just hp pots and mana pots
old zephyr
only healtpots
marble cipher
damn 😦
old zephyr
but still
combine this whith engineering plasma shield and you get a lot of "consumables" HPs
1.5 extra pots/ raidBoss
5-6 /dungeons, maybe more
marble cipher
I usually pot strength though, just for more dps
it's been a long long time since I actually thought about bringing health pots, but, I guess I actually should
summer kestrel
The engineering shield feels bad
10 min cd 
And why the knockback shares cd with pots its besides me
hollow thorn
The belt?
summer kestrel
Ye
hollow thorn
Better than any shield other prof gives 🤷
summer kestrel
Prefer nitro for qol
hollow thorn
Whats the CD of Nitro?
summer kestrel
2 min shared with pot
hollow thorn
Shared with pot, thats a yikes from me
warped hound
imagine running and not making your healers ress you
marble cipher
Blasphemy
hollow thorn
id have a second belt with Nitro, and shield on my primary belt or smt
dull granite
the 10 min knockback does not share CD with pot
really useful for certain m+ situations
modest wedge
how much is the plasma shield absorb amount?
manic perch
think it scales on hp, i tried mine once but cd too long man prefer nitro boots, if i remember correctly it was around 58k
old zephyr
39K AFAIR
old zephyr
It's about as good as a potion, but in a shield rather than heal
daring patrol
how much does the bres zap you for if it fails
old zephyr
It does use chares though
hollow thorn
With what?
hollow thorn
No shit lol
old zephyr
this thing has saved my timers so much times already
The best/most frustrating one was a deathrun in motherlode
a mine went EXACTLY on top of the chaman
Reincarnate => dies of the mine...
oblique garnet
Never seen it fail
broken roost
Not sure if it's been asked yet, but how do current 385s compare to 370s with 2 rings?
daring marlin
all hail weep
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel hello ❤
I made a wa for first boss of bod that attaches a shield to the nameplate of the invulnerable ad
I'm gonna go through and make some more WA for raid soon
I hope to have an entire set by the time raid drops
But you never know
honest acorn
keeping them to yourself? 😄
sick sentinel
@honest acorn no :)
If I am not finished by the Monday before tier opens, I will release all of them
If I am, I will release all of them
raiding with alt-Z
jagged bay
hi
honest acorn
@sick sentinel :))
sick sentinel
:]
olive lotus
Is it better to run a baseline strength trinket with a on use effect of +crit (doom) or a baseline mastery trinket with a large on use strength buff (vial of blood)
old zephyr
depends what you are trying to do
olive lotus
To be the best, like no one ever was
old zephyr
On use crit will be good for burst AoE (and increased parry in AoE)
While strength will probably be better for single target and Big hits you are not very likely to parry
olive lotus
You don’t think 1300 strength would be better for aoe then crit?
old zephyr
Vial is decreasing STR over time so I don't really know
what is sure is that vial will be better for ST
old zephyr
I'm pretty sure most proc trinket are better than a second on use
because they tend to line up better with avatar
2min CD trink is about 2.5 avatars
strong forum
The thing about vial is, it lines up perfectly with every 2nd Avatar
That's why I'm now running it 24/7
quick mauve
I can say that popping Vial with Avatar, and UF of course, pushes out some lard assed burst AoE
strong forum
And yeah don't use 2 on use trinkets
1 on use and 1 proc is much better than 2x on use
long tinsel
@olive lotus I use both. Macro the doom to Avatar because of the parry and block chance as well as the aoe burst. As soon as that 20 seconds are over for Avatar and doom I pop the vial to continue heavy aoe and block. Should be 20 or seconds that a trinket isn't up if you're using 2. Not idea but I make it work
broken roost
@modern brook nope - I know for rogues the 375 are better but doesnt necessarily apply
modern brook
Eh rogues can sim
DPS is ez
Also rogues have stupid AT's
that deal 1k per stack
broken roost
Hah fair enough
modern brook
I know for a fact 2ring is more fun
old zephyr
I am so not farming the 370 whe in 2 weeks of HM we'll have 400 on almost all slots
modern brook
not super convinced its better?
IDT you're gunna have to actively farm them that hard dude
next tuesday all 370s from any source are double ringed
Emmisarries etc
long tinsel
@broken roost you're talking azerite pieces?
modern brook
yeah, hota
long tinsel
I would probably still go with the 385 unless you don't have DC
sick sentinel
@old zephyr just do all m+0
old zephyr
2 clears of NM + the craft of the googles, and maybe a vendor token for good measure and we'll be good
main vault
Not 370s from Uldir
old zephyr
but why do M0 when you can do M10 for all other stuff?
sick sentinel
Because m0 drops azerite ?
modern brook
sav doesnt want to farm for it
is his whole point
"370s not worth getting cause 400s are right there"
old zephyr
I may be indeed behind hardcore players for the firsts weeks,
old zephyr
but I'm already at least 5 Ilvl ahead of my guild on average so ...
sick sentinel
I'm 387 :(
long tinsel
What ilvl will an M+6 chest give next week?
cobalt trellis
depending on your item level, emissarys/assaults should already give 385, right?
385
broken roost
370
long tinsel
What will a M+10 give?
sick sentinel
defensively 375's will be inferior unless you don't have a DC or something
but DPS wise
our traits are ridic
they will be better than 390 pieces
sick sentinel
if you care to farm them
sand egret
+6 = 385
long tinsel
A 10+ next week????
main vault
385
sand egret
its capped at that for the first week
long tinsel
Ohhhhh and the 2nd is when it goes up?
broken roost
My 370 was in response to kurbis
sand egret
so even if you push you’ll get +6 max
main vault
The weekly will give a 410 the following
cosmic cargo
so you want to do 1 10
main vault
But after a 10 weekly, there is no point doing over a 6
cosmic cargo
but after 1 10 no point doing more of them
long tinsel
Awesome you guys were confusing me
cosmic cargo
unless you're trying to push for more residum
long tinsel
We good
broken roost
More 10s wouldnt give you more residuum though would it? Just based on highest single key isnt it
modern brook
Fuck that
fit as many 10s in as you can before ppl realize our damage is fucking broken and we get nerfed into unplayablity
pad that score
main vault
He wasn’t saying do more 10s
modern brook
if you're not leaving W1 at 1k io ur an idiot >:^(
main vault
He is saying the only reason to do Over 6 is to push as high as you can for residuum
cosmic cargo
yup
oblique garnet
also to get used to reaping
modern brook
Tracking % is going to be weird
cosmic cargo
well actually looking at it is tracking it 😛
sand egret
well we never had breakpoints so it is new
modern brook
I do
modern brook
tanking is a side effect of big stomping
sand egret
we dps with shields
sick sentinel
If I were a blood dk
boot soup clappers only
tanking is a by product
My ghuun shield proves I'm certified shoe soup clapper
sand egret
👢 🍵 👏
long tinsel
Do the reaping mobs still have the same abilities as they did when they were alive?
long tinsel
So they are just 50% spirits?
sand egret
50% of original mobs health
long tinsel
Right
modern brook
Do they Fortify?
long tinsel
What abilities would the mobs have?
marble cipher
Yes, cause they are 50% of mob hp @modern brook
sand egret
of one of three types:
- melee trash add with % hp shred
- caster with a max hp nuke on a cast
- big add with frontal cone
lavish oracle
Yes, Bull
modern brook
😠
long tinsel
In that order?
sand egret
depends on the original mob
long tinsel
Ok did anyone here PTR it?
modern brook
So next season really is just a AoE fiesta
analog swift
^^also it’s going to be more worth to pull bigger packs so you get less reaping mobs.
sand egret
most trash are melee dudes, non-CCable adds become “big” adds, and casters become casters
analog swift
Bigger adds*
long tinsel
Yeah I've read that
analog swift
I guess more dangerous would be the better way to put it
hollow thorn
Lost Souls are like the easiest adds
lavish oracle
I didn't but there a fair number twitch vods of people testing it
hollow thorn
All they do is a easily avoidable cleave and some swirlies when it dies
modern brook
We're 4 months into the expansion and people still get hit by supression slam
long tinsel
Lol
sand egret
yeah thats gonna be interesting, Cotton, let’s see how it works out
long tinsel
So tru
modern brook
ITs the ability on the adds ou shouldnt be pulling in KR
marble cipher
KR big mobs at start
long tinsel
KR
hollow thorn
who even does those smh
marble cipher
The ones you usually shroud
hollow thorn
You can just ourange
modern brook
the venn diagram on that is a perfect circle
hollow thorn
and its easy af for melee
marble cipher
I do them, cause no rogue, though I guess I should just invis pot them
modern brook
Bullseye :^)
sand egret
i dunno...
modern brook
@hollow thorn just cause you're right doesnt make you right
sand egret
im still trying to get dhs to kick
modern brook
^^^^^^^
hollow thorn
lmao
long tinsel
Sooooo on dungeons like underrot
cosmic cargo
the problem isn't dps whores
modern brook
key died on sisters
cosmic cargo
it's literal monkeys
waxen cradle
Unless there shiny and then some people's eyes go ooh shiny
long tinsel
When you get to 100% before the last boss
And then jump down there
Do the spirits follow?
hollow thorn
dont know
modern brook
I dont think Adds are able to use that door way
hollow thorn
doesnt work like that with any other mobs
long tinsel
Right
modern brook
doesnt mean anything though
sand egret
i pugged a UR +11 on my druid last night...basically had to through a fucking job interview to get the spot....only to see his dh buddy get gibbed twice by Sanguine Feast. still two chested it but still
not a good look
analog swift
I wonder if the doors will even open up
hollow thorn
try it on the PTR
modern brook
+1.5k io only - lead at 700 w/ his 956 main
long tinsel
@sand egret ugh
modern brook
Pugging that 10-12 area is the fucking worst blade
sick sentinel
do you guys coms often when you pug?
modern brook
If its my key yeah
summer kestrel
Once in a full mon
modern brook
generally im joining keys and I get to type everything
sand egret
yeah best part was, i literally did ALL the things in that run including:
- CC’d all infested including managing a roots + hibernate in the 2nd boss room to mass pull
- saved multiple people by having to shift/swiftmend mid-pack
- popped brez’s like pez
summer kestrel
If they ask I join but I don't talk
long tinsel
Once I had this healer telling me a blood bolt was one shoting him. All of the bolts were interrupted
Dude was dying to rot
Smh
summer kestrel
Normally everyone know what to cc
hollow thorn
Infested is a pug nightmare
long tinsel
Yup
sand egret
i normally never coms my pugs
hollow thorn
this week is just a big nono in pugs
summer kestrel
It happened a lot in the 10-14 range
modern brook
i had a tank chain pull Motherload earlier this week
long tinsel
How did that go with explosive
sand egret
honestly best part of pugging as brm is covering your own CC
summer kestrel
But when I got past that 8/10 times everyone is good enough to play without babysitting
modern brook
We got the asssassin down to 50% and he pulls the 5 pack at the fork
IDC if u wanna pull big
that is not how you pull bolstering
Or ever, but especially not on bolstering
old zephyr
you can pull big in bolstering
modern brook
Sure
old zephyr
just let it reset
old zephyr
yeah
sand egret
sounds like my “special dk”. i get the last mob all stunned and 30+ yrds away about to die so I pulled the next pack....fuckin DK grips that straggler in just so it can bolster
modern brook
or dont
old zephyr
freehold 4packs right after 2nd boss is my favorit bolstering pull
modern brook
I dont like when ppl chain pull 2fers across an entire dungeon
No one does 2 target DPS well except like WArrior and locks
old zephyr
frost mage maybe 😃
old zephyr
true that
sand egret
something something arms
modern brook
Arms 2 target significantly worse than BIG STOMP to SPIN combo
slate vine
Hi Boyz, would you mind to give me your insight regarding our bis azerite pieces for season 2 ? I thought about Engi helm, Conclave Shoulders and Champions Torso which should give me:
1xDC, 1xBoM, 1xCR, 1xIF and 1xBsport and the Engi traits. But I'm kinda afraid of missing the Resounding protection traits
summer kestrel
Why
sand egret
uh
summer kestrel
Resounding is good when it is a shield
slate vine
I'm quite lost when it comes to which traits to aim for beside DC and BoM
summer kestrel
On tanks is just ok
sick sentinel
the answer is more DC's and BoMs
modern brook
We dont really have targets beside DC and BoM
sand egret
i mean the guide would lay it out pretty well in terms of a relative hierarchy
modern brook
But I personally am aiming for 3xdc 3x Bom
slate vine
Does BoM takes into account the bloodsport traits ?
sand egret
but getting a few stacks of BoM is what im gunnin for
modern brook
@sand egret the guide ranks them with only defensive benefit in mind
it ignores DPS
sand egret
BoM aint about the IP but yes it should
sick sentinel
keep in mind the guide only looks at traits for defensive value
DPS isn't taken into consideration
sand egret
when was this said to be a dps only question?
modern brook
IT wasnt but you if you go by the guide as gospel
sand egret
he said BIs
modern brook
you get stupid conclusions like "3x bom is bad"
sand egret
i mean, sure but thats general misinterpretation
the question was about bis, which as a tank, includes considering defense
modern brook
YEah no ones arguing that
Just that the guide ignores the other aspect of tanking - doing damage
@lusty grotto
need quote
summer kestrel
But bom is pretty good at defence value 🤔
sand egret
ok....but you’re not really gearing for damage over surv
you gear when you have the latter in excess
modern brook
🤷
This isnt a discussion; if you wanna take CR over BoM at = ilvls go for it fam; i aint gunna stop you
sick sentinel
I'm relation to your own character, tanking is staying alive and nothing else
summer kestrel
Then again
sick sentinel
Doing damage is an added bonus
sand egret
i think its better to clarify your reasoning to this player that you’re forgoing surv for dps in your suggestion, then.
summer kestrel
You take what you get
sick sentinel
Tanking is a mini game for healers
sand egret
as it is not bis
modern brook
^
sick sentinel
I dunno I'm shadow priest
modern brook
I have never geared with the intent of purely increasing my survivability
thats what my buttons are for
cosmic cargo
as much survivability as possible = bis seems like a pretty silly way too look at things tbh
sick sentinel
Yeah I've always itemised for bare minimum survivability and max damage
cosmic cargo
like who the fuck is running eye + bandages? almost no one
sick sentinel
I agree
modern brook
actually i lied
cosmic cargo
because it really isn't a good idea
sand egret
your basic function as a tank is to survive. gear that optimizes that is, by definition, best in slot. Can it be i excess, yeah but that’s relative your current gear and the content you’re doin.
modern brook
Also trinkets isnt fair because all tank trinkets suck
cosmic cargo
your function isn't just to survive
sand egret
so thats why we start these hybrid convos that bring both
cosmic cargo
this isn't wotlk
cosmic cargo
not just that
modern brook
Like if you're dying in fights you're either a) not doing mechanics or b) not getting healed
or c) undergeared
cosmic cargo
just surviving was the tank's role up until cata or so
after that? not at all
it's your main role yes
but by far not the only
sand egret
....
modern brook
Def semantics
cosmic cargo
someone who just survives is a horrible tank
sand egret
semantics
cosmic cargo
not at all
sand egret
like literally, yeah
cosmic cargo
if you only optimize defensive
unless you absolutely need it
you are a terrible tank
simple
sand egret
🤦
modern brook
splitting hairs on sub roles and shit is whatever
A tank is supposed to tank
and not dying is a major function of that
inarguable statement
now whether or not GEARING with the SOLE INTENT of not dying is "bis" is totally up for debate
sand egret
does a good resto dps in dungeons, yeah? why is he brought to a dungeon? to heal.
modern brook
and the current argument against it is "if im not dying, i dont need more not dying. its a boolean"
In fairness i def bring restos for their dps
and brez
sand egret
yes, but why not bring a boomkin?
modern brook
I have one already
sand egret
because you need the healing 😃
modern brook
:^)
sand egret
but yeH you prob have one
cosmic cargo
if its just to heal you could bring a holy priest, they actually heal really well
guess what? no one brings them
sick sentinel
yeah
sand egret
but go on
sand egret
🍿
cosmic cargo
eh I give up, idk how marok managed to spread this dumb mentality
modern brook
😮
sick sentinel
I agree with you Zeppe
sick sentinel
DPS is important
broken roost
You're all saying in practice "get tanky enough to live, then do damage"
Just arguing about how you get there
Whether you focus damage but reduce that until you survive, or start survive and reduce that until you 'barely' survive (or whatever, just not as tanky as absolutely possible), doesn't matter
Zeppe is saying that looking at it as tanks only have to tank, period, is short-sighted, and it is
But that's not how you guys actually see it, it's just technically a tank has to tank and live
cosmic cargo
because this place is the laughing stock of tank discords and I don't see this mentality in other places anywhere near as much
sick sentinel
Yeah it's definitely an aged mentality that is starting to change
broken roost
The application of the mentality is exactly the same though Zeppe, it's just if you're undefeated or pushing or whatever, BiS is considered what maximizes survival above all else
But as you live, you can start going 3x DC 3x BoM and laugh
Doing that as a 340 prot in a +12 will get you nowhere except running back
neon tangle
Just a thought but I’d argue that the relatively larger focus on survival is -partly- because 8.0 left prot as pretty likely to die
broken roost
Undefeated -> Undergeared**
neon tangle
While other tanks had more freedom to focus on their damage
quick mauve
The point here is to know your limits and when you feel your survivability is where it needs to be for the content you are pushing, improve yourself more by transitioning in more dps elements.
broken roost
^^^^
quick mauve
Or don’t, and just never improve as being the most effective tank you potentially could be
Selling yourself and your team short
sand egret
the meta talk is great, but offering advice with no context other than “bis” you need to go as basic as you can be.
sick sentinel
selling yourself monkaS
summer kestrel
If you itemize with the mentality that you play at master lvl and nothing can't kill you
sand egret
thats where it started.
warm plinth
I don't feel like survivability is overvalued in this discord. This entire discussion is unnecessary lol.
sick sentinel
I am 100% itemised for damage
sand egret
as a product of whT
modern brook
:^)
summer kestrel
Then again this discussion is dumb