the sooner stuff dies, the sooner it stops hitting you
#protection
unique mortar
main vault
So I’m tanking Fetid right
I know after a thrash a healer is going to nuke heal me for next thrash
neon tangle
@sick sentinel also basically always ignore uptime for IP, in almost any interesting content it will get knocked off really quickly
sick sentinel
@main vault in your example I would argue it does since it adds more pressure to your healers
sick sentinel
@neon tangle you are correct I guess the correct word was "casts" how many "casts" would be reasonable but I agree this is content dependent
main vault
So I don’t get gibbed by the next thrash
I didn’t add any pressure
But you know what I did add
Dps
sick sentinel
What about traits? I see people saying IV is better than gemhide but in general what are considered "good" warrior talents
I currently use bloodsport, bastion of might, defening crash
main vault
By talents you mean traits
sick sentinel
yeah
neon tangle
@main vault Depends on your raid comp / the fight I guess, you taking less damage could also mean swapping another healer for dps
sick sentinel
which one? I checked the guides in the FAQ channel
neon tangle
or letting your healer dps more
main vault
Sure
sand egret
its pinned in this channel @sick sentinel
main vault
But that’s part of my thought
sand egret
top right, first link is the Icy-Veins guide
main vault
If they aren’t going to be hitting me with that heal I make a different decision
sand egret
granted, the same guide is linked in the FAQ channel which makes me wonder if you actually read it.... 🤔
sick sentinel
I didn't think you meant the icy veins
from experience they aren't very good guides, at least for prot paladins
sand egret
does that mean you don't read em?
main vault
Uh
sick sentinel
I do read them
sand egret
i mean ya didn't
main vault
The IV for Prot Pally is decent
sand egret
your answers are all in there lol
sick sentinel
I have read the warrior one
main vault
What are you on about
steel mauve
The icyveins guide is really good and maintained by the owner of this discord, updated for 8.1, good idea to not assume a guide isnt good just because its not for a different class
ebon lark
curious question, will devastate ever be in as good a place as it was with legion if haste gets inflated by the end of the expansion?
zinc mauve
devastate is more of a filler in its current state when you dont have your other rage creating/spending skills ready
ebon lark
cause i honestly really liked the prot playstyle in legion for the slam chains
steel mauve
well 2 things devalued devestate a lot
taking off the rage gain from the on hit, and adding shield slam resets onto tclap and revenge
do you mean devestator or the ability?
ebon lark
i meant the talent sorry, i always get them crossed
steel mauve
ok, thats what i thought, just wanted to make sure
and nerfed the resert chance to 20% on the talent, while still being a 30% chance on the spell, with tclap and revenge as well
BV's damage increase, especially in aoe, and the rage gain on it are just too good
and with 2 other spells now able to reset shield slams it's really easy to over ride a devestator proc
ebon lark
Yea, I'm reading into it more now
dunno why they felt it needed to hit it as hard by removing/reducing power and giving it to other skills :/
dire nacelle
hi guys i want to switch for tank but idk how to estimate the value of each stats, i tried this hate 1
crit 0.85
force 0.86
maitrise 0.91
poly 0.92
armor 0.95
but idk if i am +- right or not
ebon lark
honestly, there is not really a flat value of what is good and bad, really if you want to get that specific you need to sim your stats
dire nacelle
it is possible to sim as a tank ?
vocal nimbus
Not as prot warrior
And without working sims you cant use a pawn string either
You should follow the stat priority and judge yourself which pieces are better
Or ask here
dire nacelle
never did but war prot seems so complicate to know
main vault
No tank is complicated anymore tbf
vocal nimbus
Not everyone may be able to catch things and concepts on the fly
so thats subjective
main vault
You are overthinking it way too much
queen owl
i seen the simulationcraft commits and prot warrior is being worked on
vocal nimbus
correct
ebon lark
honestly with the way things have gone lately you may as well sim for dps
vocal nimbus
You cant
vocal nimbus
The module itself does not work properly
ebon lark
i was gonna say idk how its any more difficult to sim a tank than a dps
main vault
Yeah it was activated a few days ago
ebon lark
i never understood that
main vault
But I cannot stress this enough
It is not accurate
And is far from being done
We have a lot of work to do
dire nacelle
but anyway in main cases +5 i lvl is worth on an item with armor/strength no ?
main vault
@ebon lark there are far too many variables to account for in tank sims
@queen owl it’s not accurate at all
ebon lark
how so, unless i've been completely oblivious since 2009 you tank swap, occasionally handle run out mechanics, you're basically DPSing with your rage you have besides using SB or IP
main vault
Ok
There are 8 fights in Uldir
So that’s 32 different dmg patterns per tank
64 actually
So for 64 different dmg patterns you have to be able to account for every possible 3 4 5 and 6 healer comp possible out of 6 healers
queen owl
could argue the same for dps roles
ebon lark
what i meant was how can you not properly sim tank dps because once you get to a point you simply over gear things
queen owl
so by proxy all dps sims are useless to Kappa
ebon lark
i wouldn't sim for survivability, because of how the game is atm I feel its almost pointless to even care about survival simming
main vault
Prot specifically does not work because all the backend information has not been touched in 3 years
And the apl is just as old
vocal nimbus
Guys, the program simply isnt set up properly and does not give reliable results
Its that simple
queen owl
ima still use simc for prot dps, even if its wrong right now.
main vault
So it’s testable to be able to find what exactly isn’t working
Good luck
It’s pointless
queen owl
i can still adjust apl as neccessary and override spell coefficients and whatnot
main vault
Not the issues but ok
main vault
I am
queen owl
ty
main vault
That’s why I said good luck
hot locust
I wont, it wont work.
ebon lark
i'll just keep using the highest ilevel i find and put on any side grade that has haste and verse
and slam for days
hot locust
then do we really want to count that as "working"
main vault
I don’t
That’s why I said don’t use it lol
But what do I know /shrug
It’s three year old data with BC swapped with Ava
Basically it
hot locust
Because it hasnt been updated
queen owl
lack of interest in maintaining is my guess
main vault
But the module with the interactions and etc isn’t
And once we finish that, that APL still need updates
queen owl
modules arent updated if nobody on the dev team is interested in that class/spec
main vault
It’ll be 2-3 months I’m sure
queen owl
some modues get crazy complicated if someone is interested enough in that spec
main vault
It’s basically as if someone just drop mic’d in Legion and yeah
steel mauve
kinda wish they didnt activate it, now we're gonna get 70k questions about simming prot, and another 70k using the sims as 100% factual information
fleet goblet
anyone with the time and inclination can run their own sims and let us know if they find glaring errors
fringe basin
on the third line of talents which is better to take? best served cold, unstoppable force, or dragon roar?
fleet goblet
UF almost always
fringe basin
does it increase the dmg of the bleed as well or just the initial damage of thunderclap?
fleet goblet
doesnt affect deep wounds afaik
neon tangle
@main vault I thought about helping there for a sec
opened the 7kline cpp file
nope
main vault
Lol
It’s kinda a mess
Tbh he started working it before me, I just got it approved for a project for school so I’m taking some load off
He has work, family, etc
I’m a loner with no friends so
neon tangle
I'm just armchair developing at you, but prolly saner to start with doing what lock / pally / priest did
main vault
Idk what they did
neon tangle
each spec is it's own file, plus a shared one
so it isn't a mix of arms / fury / prot stuff kinda randomly shoved together
fringe basin
ok, so far i have into the fray, bounding stride, unstoppable force, rumbling earth, booming voice and anger management for talents
neon tangle
ebon lark
I would gladly sim on the regular, but i have no idea what i would be looking for
sand egret
@fringe basin you're better off checking the guides for talent questions. it's laid out pretty well.
main vault
@ebon lark ideally people have knowledge of what the class/spell should be doing
neon tangle
@fringe basin that's the set to use, feel free to swap around the lvl 30 and 75 talents, the guide talks about what situations to use them
ebon lark
ah ok
main vault
And they can look through their sim and find interactions that can’t/shouldn’t happen
fringe basin
@neon tangle ah, i figured i would ask here since its a group for prot warriors
ebon lark
yea idk how to dig into it that deep
sand egret
of which wrote the guide for you to read
main vault
Sims themself work as well, but we have to go through those to find anything as well
fringe basin
alrighty thankyou
sand egret
@fringe basin this chat is for the why's not the what's when it comes to talents (and even then that part is laid out).
but definitely the place to come for stuff not covered in there. it's just this question does get asked a lot so its easier to have a consistent message to check the resources before posting questions which may be answered in there. 😃
steel mauve
sand egret
damn the cache did drop nice item slots...too bad the shield is like one of my best geared slots
steel mauve
alwayas read the guides first, then ask questions, because about 90%+ of the questions that get asked here are usually answered plainly in the guides
ya, my first week back in a month and tried to do a high key, only finished an 8 and got a WF rezans with a sock, kinda wish i had done a 10...
sand egret
my druid got a 2hander so i'm actually more excited about that haha.
neon tangle
I got really luck when I rerolled so I haven't gotten gear forever
I think my DK is 386 now
sand egret
damn, i'm hitting that 380 wall
neon tangle
I'm just lucky, only 4/8M
sand egret
well i don't raid so i'm kinda capped post 380
esp when it comes to azerite
not really a pvp'er so I don't really have that option
sand egret
also why i'm looking forward to buying that next season
as it's an actual route for me to get that tier of az gear
main vault
Right
mossy cairn
Hello, quick question : is the trait Shadow of Elune any good ? Or is it trash ?
sand egret
not worth it over prot-specific ones,
mossy cairn
Even Bastion of might ?
sand egret
definitely take Bastion my dude
mossy cairn
Okay, thanks for the answer ! 😃
sand egret
bonus points if you can get another piece with it
ruby berry
just think, one more week and your 375s won't matter anymore thanks to normal BoD
sand egret
hop into some M+ and just spread the gospel
as someone who won't do normal BoD
that means very little
and my shit will very much matter as I try to do the 30% harder M+ keys
but 2/10 troll. coulda at least threw in a jab at the residue and some sort of neck comment
main vault
@ruby berry ima farm the shit out of some 6s lol
ruby berry
Yeah the week of the 22nd should be fun for m+, lots of potential upgrades and ragequitting pugs!
main vault
6 is only one affix too
sand egret
not looking forward to the people who don't get that it got "harder" and will assume since they got carried through a 10 itlll be the same
dusky fern
May be a dumb question, but does Spell Reflect work on vectis tank mechanic?
steel mauve
it reduces the dmg of it
dusky fern
So still worth using just cant negate the application?
steel mauve
but if you have the spell that jumps to allies and you have spell reflect up when it expires you wont get a stack of the dmg increase debuff
dusky fern
Oh ok thats nice to know, thank you 😃
steel mauve
so it depends on if you want to reduce the tank dot damage or gamble on getting that debuff and not increasing the amount of dmg increase stacks the raid has
dusky fern
Does it still bounce with reflect up?
vocal nimbus
ye
steel mauve
it still bounces but you wont get the debuff
dusky fern
ok sounds good
steel mauve
did they?
uneven mason
mmhmmm
cosmic cargo
didn't they only change g'huun cheese?
oblique garnet
Vectis reflect still works
uneven mason
It doesn't unless there is a new trick to the timing?
shut summit
worked for me last week perfectly fine (vectis debuff)
doing same shit
ghuun malignant was nerfed
oblique garnet
Shame couldnt even test it and probably wont even get CE this tier due to all sorts of technical and guildies personal difficulties
swift pier
hey guys anyone know why the best m+ prot war is using these traits? https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/draenor/Herudra
i thought bis was 2 boms and a defening
swift pier
one piece is a 375
swift pier
so i keep using bastion of might?
uneven mason
how squishy do you feel
uneven mason
well doubt its because of traits that you feel that way
sick sentinel
@sand egret I was 2/8 and 387 ilvl, it doesn't have to do with anything
When you're doing +15s and you're getting loot from every single dungeon, eventually you get something useful
sick sentinel
Well now I got to 388 because I decided to raid last week and got vectis weap but ye
sand egret
why am i getting tagged?
sick sentinel
ilvl>haste>rest are the same
You got tagged because you said that since you dont mythic raid you are locked at 380 ilvl
sand egret
nope, I said i'm 380 and don't raid thus I have hit a wall (read: not locked) and my azerite intake is limited
you get 0 azerite from th ose +15s
sick sentinel
I might have misread that
sand egret
yes, you did.
sick sentinel
Well you can get helmet from mother, which is puggable
sand egret
so that doesn't really fit into "doesn't raid"
so i'm not trying to badger this point
sick sentinel
And if you didn't get any azerite the whole 8.0 then its really FeelsWeirdMan
sand egret
you're just trying to argue nothing.
i nev[er said that
i'm at 380 due to the gap between 375 vs 385
which, no, i didn't get
hence why i'm stating this.
sick sentinel
I'm not trying to argue I am trying to undertand because I am a 5 iq mongo
sand egret
ok, point is i'm looking forward for to a system where a M+ person (who soley focuses on that) can have a deterministic avenue for azerite gear.
to push to the mythic raid level tier.
specifically.
main vault
You should be able to buy one every other week
With an extra every 3-4 depending on leftover
Depending how much content you do
sick sentinel
Yeah if you are doing emissaries and assaults and shit
main vault
I’d assume at least at first everyone will be
neon tangle
that's my plan too
main vault
Specifics aren’t even worth it tbh
sand egret
they are to me, yeah
main vault
I guess
sand egret
tis a relative concept, worth
main vault
Cost vs. Reward they really aren’t
sand egret
so yes.
neon tangle
I mean, once you already have 3x pieces might as well spend it on getting a DC piece or w/e trait you're missing later in the tier
main vault
Rip Method
neon tangle
?
main vault
Twitter
neon tangle
I wonder how many people are gonna end up getting 3x good 415 pieces quickly
then just save for the whole tier
main vault
Idk
I don’t think I’ll ever buy a specific
Maybe save for next tier if that’s a thing
warm plinth
Barring massively bad RNG, I can't see specifics being a better buy than randoms considering you can get 4 randoms for the price of 1 specific, and the chances of you getting a fully shit item from a random is pretty low.
neon tangle
blood elf racial is p good
main vault
Because arcane torrent is bis
neon tangle
It's also just the most popular race for horde
belfs are ~33% of all horde, >2x the next most played race (orc @ 14%)
steel mauve
im debating on if i want to test my luck and try the random 415, or same up nearly 4 times the residium
save up*
trim sphinx
415 is def more worth it than saving
Its been said here, but all of the prot traits are good
you only save for a specific if you already have all 415 and are targetting a specific trait imo
steel mauve
i would only go from a 375 DC to a 415 DC
neon tangle
@steel mauve Personally I'd do randoms for your non-DC pieces
and see if you get a DC to replace it
then once you get to your 375 you'll be able to decide between waiting or taking the 40 ilvl upgrade
although... 45 ilvls is right at worth it
main vault
I mean just odds alone say you’ll get a dc piece on at least 2 slots
For less than the cost of specifics
steel mauve
ya, the price massively jumps up, like 1700 for a random for 7100 for a specific
main vault
Yeah it’s insane
trim sphinx
you might be better off trying randoms a couple of times than trying to save for 7100, since you could scrap the current one you have for some more, just my opinion
neon tangle
I mean there’s a good chance you’ll get DC on one of the other two gear slots and then it’s a non-issue
Plus the value of DC is.... mostly fixed, right? You don’t get a longer extension from a higher ilvl piece
Just more TC damage
steel mauve
it's more so the extra stats from the higher piece
merry cave
Chances would be pretty low on 2-3 randoms you don't get at least one dc
And there's a few in new raid too
Actually our azerite gear in new raid is quite good overall
steel mauve
ya im just trying to decide on a piece off the bat to get an edge over waiting for rng from raid
naive panther
until you have 415 in each slot.... probably best to take a random
if i get a decent one for that slot then i will hold
finite gull
I have 390 bastion of might shoulders and chest. But I can't use both of em cuz ill drop DC 😦
naive panther
if it sucks then just another random
main vault
What ilvl is the DC
finite gull
375
main vault
Dang yeh I may keep that
thorn torrent
i have a 345 jes howler and a blockades and i just got syringe 370 which one do i replace
?
main vault
Howler
quiet crane
neon tangle
Unless you really need the surv howler is pretty good
main vault
345 tho
nova needle
Do we use Steelskin Potions? Or just use Potion of Strength?
main vault
Str
wheat canopy
how's prot doing now guys? im thinking of becoming a tank?
warm plinth
We're #1 world champions of the world sir
main vault
Prot is decent
wheat canopy
hazaaaa
main vault
Mid tier in raid, upper mid in dungeons atm
main vault
Well the newness of tanking will wear off
wheat canopy
well atleast it's like an important role in raids
i hate being a "dime a dozen"
and you have to think a little more
fury is just hit 3 buttons lol
main vault
More important, sure
The easiest role in raids, absolutely
Raid tanking is probably the most boring aspect of WoW
warm plinth
Yeah if you're talking about raiding, DPS is going to be your best option for fun. Neither tanking nor healing are much fun in raids.
wheat canopy
well i do more m+ anyways
warm plinth
In M+ they're basically the opposite. DPS is boring and tanking and healing are a lot of fun XD
main vault
There is nothing more exciting then getting a fight down in 5-10 pulls then pulling the boss another 50-300 times while dps go full retard
lavish oracle
Honestly I've never found DPS that much more interesting on most fights unless you're doing special mechanics
main vault
It’s at least highly competitive
lavish oracle
Like high command pods or g'huun orbs
Sure, I can see that being a draw for some people
warm plinth
@main vault The getting the fight down in 5-10 pulls and having everyone go full retard for 50-300 more pulls is how I feel even as a DPS in raids 😂
warm plinth
Yeah
main vault
Not just standing in the same spot, hitting the same buttons
warm plinth
Instead of just stand there and press buttons with a taunt here and there.
main vault
Yup
main vault
rip you
tulip pond
Why do I get stuff like this a week before the new raid?
sick sentinel
Every time tank a m+7-10 this week and last week ranged dps pulls extra guys, melee stands in everything, and group falls apart or we wipe 7 times and fail time but complete anyway.
Did 5 runs today not a single one under time. About to give up on warrior.
And they are buffing dungeons hp\dmg globally as well next week
warrior is solid you can do it if you believe in yourself
most of pugging as a tank is holding everyone's hand so just think of what you would do if you were escorting a 5 year old through a dungeon
These groups are doing my head in. Trying to remain calm.
stone imp
Won't be fixed by switching to another tank
sick sentinel
Switching to mage for time being
stone imp
If you can't beat em, join em
manic perch
now you will just get a plebby tank, its a endless cycle
best is to try and find good players add them to friends list and make your own team 😛
sick sentinel
Already completed a 10 so think I'll just level my mage till end of week and only do we/ie on warr
marble cipher
I did something stupid yesterday, pre-popped Avatar before keystart (totally forgot it doesn't reset =D) and went into Freehold 12 to pull the first three packs and nuke them down.
That didn't end well 😄
Still made the key though, but, that wasn't a nice "hi, I'm your tank for today" calling card
Also, screw Sanguine!!
potent anvil
General rule is 3+ min CDs get reset. Doesnt apply to all CDs though.
marble cipher
yeah, I kinda knew Avatar didn't reset, I tried it at the start of the season iirc, never did it again but yesterday I thought "ah, let's nuke this first part of Freehold"....
sick sentinel
That's what I'm saying as well, I feel as though these failed runs are somehow my fault and don't want to let others down.
silk mortar
You can use rallying cry xP
marble cipher
Haha
silk mortar
Op
floral tinsel
Actually a good question. Are there any cooldowns on prot warrior that are worth blowing before the key gets put in?
hollow thorn
Both Avatar and Last Stand would last long enough, but they dont get reset
main vault
Nope nothing to use
floral tinsel
Thats what I thought
nova needle
I have a question about Ignore Pain vs. Shield Block in raid setting. I know for bosses like Fetid, obviously Shield Block every Thrash you can. But for most bosses are we trying to keep Ignore Pain up as much as possible and using extra rage on Shield Block?
warm plinth
Shield Block should always take precedence over Ignore Pain unless there is no blockable damage.
ionic fern
E.g you're chilling on Vectis with debuffs while not actively tanking.
nova needle
Take Ghuun for instance.
Shield Block on CD, and only Ignore Pain if I have the extra rage?
oblique garnet
Pretty much
nova needle
Okay, thank you
marble cipher
What do we do when both SB and LS are on CD?
Just power through that bit till you get one of the two back?
I know the answer will most likely be "manage rage better", but there are situations (mostly in M+ though, cause in raids you got tank switches) where you run out of SB and LS for a few moments
summer kestrel
You don't manage rage better
Those happens
Times*
If really needed you use shield wall
ionic fern
Also in m+ you have externals so you can be vocal about them. 🤷
summer kestrel
If don't, just hang in ther with ignore pain and the healers will heal you for once
In m+ stun, kite, fear, healstone, etc
Few instances where it would happen tho
marble cipher
hm, true, stuns and fears will help probably, though I'm always a bit scared to use IntShout for extra pulls
ionic fern
It breaks pretty fast
summer kestrel
Fear into thunderclap
ionic fern
So you can use it pretty freely.
summer kestrel
If you have the trait that blocks the next 20k dmg they do after the fear it saves your ass a lot
ionic fern
🤔
marble cipher
Hm, fear + TC, good call, then again that would increase the chance of breaking it really fast though wouldn't it? Negating the fact that you just used it for damage reduction
ionic fern
The simplest solution in all honesty in m+ when you're out of CD's/SB is to just Stun->Heroic Leap.
ionic fern
Wait for healer to catch up or your SB to come up and go back in.
hollow thorn
except disorienting 1 infested mob running towards u
marble cipher
yeah, that's what I'm using it for atm @hollow thorn
kk, I guess having SB/LS down (and SW down or saving it for a future pack) would indeed mean "leap out" or "intervene out" and wait a bit for cd's to come back
hollow thorn
Has saved my ass couple times when a infest ran towards a big pack, but i managed to disorient it until someone CC'd
marble cipher
Still getting used to warr tanking in M+, this week was good training though, fortified makes it a lot more important to play trash well 😄
oblique garnet
This week is better
Explosive is free healing and bolstering with good group is ezpz
hollow thorn
Bolstering and prot war isnt a fun combo tho
Looking forward to bolstering next season, since u can cc big mobs instead of infested mobs
summer kestrel
Even with bolstering ass, I prefer this week over any week with sanguine
marble cipher
^
I play monk in M+ a lot too, and ring of peace is sooooo lovely to have for sanguine
The main gripe I have so far with switching to warrior is the lack of self CC and Ring of Peace. I seem to rely more on others for those things, which in pugs isn't that fun 😄
Outside of that, I enjoy warrior a lot more
The lack of self CC will be a lot less noticable in season 2 though, as a monk it's just very convenient that you can set up your own pulls where a mob is infested
hollow thorn
makes warriors better in general
since we have no CC
while every other class does in some way
marble cipher
aye
and to be fair, paralysis is a bit overpowered in terms of the amount of mobs you can actually CC that others can't.
So, yes, I miss it a bit, will be over next week 😉
marble cipher
yeah, I wish para was like that, but, that would make it gamebreaking
like giving a tank an aoe pull 😏
hasty quest
Guys any of you tested REAPING on ptr?
hollow thorn
yup
marble cipher
No, I've seen quite a few twitch clips of it though, looks good fun
hollow thorn
done like 5 dunngs
prisma viper
@hollow thorn How did you like it? As a prot warr I love the AoE aspect of it, but I fear if the Reaping spawns 4-5 casters and they stop 30 yards away at different positions it will be shit
hollow thorn
I didnt tank it, but it was a really fun affix
Casters were pretty easy to handle
they didnt stop at 30 yd iirc
and if they do just los them
Really easy to interrupt with CC
and long cast times
eager phoenix
@prisma viper You can always do some LOS play though.
marble cipher
I'm expecting LoS will be a big thing for Reaping, so, I can already see it happen where the dps don't LoS at all, and get eaten by the casts, cause god forbid they find their interrupt keybind 😄
hollow thorn
im not entirely sure how the reaping aggro works
but when i played it
i died on the pack that spawned the reaping
and when the ghosts were running to tank, i was hitting them
but didnt get aggro
even tho tank didnt touch em yet
its PTR tho
sick sentinel
you can interrupt all of the casts at the same time with 1 shockwave most likely
because they will stack my nature while pathing to you
hollow thorn
ye they stack pretty well without u doing anything
marble cipher
I think they start their aggro on tank, but can lose it, but we'll see I guess
uncut juniper
@fierce juniper i hope its okay to ask. Will there be an icy veins update concercing azerite items now that there are 5 trait rings and a new raid / drop source?
marble cipher
@hasty quest pulls will be a lot easier, only defined by the main affixes (and sometimes group comp/cd's).
No longer a need to CC two or three mobs, pull packs, afterwards kill the three infested ones, rinse, repeat
And having a specific cc break won't be as punishing anymore, say if you CC a hard hitting mob to do it afterwards, if that was an infested, it would heal the pack you're fighting.
After S2, that mob will just come beating on you as well, and you can probably powerhouse through it
sick sentinel
Did you know, having 8 melee(not including tanks) for Mythic Fetid makes the fight feel impossible
old zephyr
how so?
cosmic cargo
circles
digital delta
cosmic cargo
gl killing the mass with that
sick sentinel
The worst part is when a melee gets flung to u somehow with the debuff
This is the first time we've had more melee than range(for obvious reasons)
And boy howdy holy shit
Me and the OT got debuff in several pulls because a DPS was centimeters next to me or him
ivory spoke
yep that's not fun at all
sick sentinel
@hollow thorn it's possible they keep threat tables then
uneven mason
that'd be amazing
literally tuck yourself into a corner before triggering the reaping pack
they all LOS directly to you.
I can think of a few places which will be convenient for that
as long as they don't trigger sanguine et
which currently they are not.
marble cipher
I saw a clever use of mind control (DK) in Atal on the PTR, keeping the MC'd mob to trigger reaping when they wanted it
made it easier for them to choose when the 20% trigger happened
And especially where (in this case, they purposely triggered it in Volkaal room)
uneven mason
yeah control undead is an interesting thing
its almost like the dude who designed a lot of dungeons also did work on the DK class
marble cipher
😄
uneven mason
🤤 🔫
thin pecan
Hi there, I would like a bit of help relating to secondary stats, if you dont mind helping a noob... Ask mr robot suggests that I should stack more Vers into my character and prioritise it over haste. Every source apart from AMR says this is wrong and haste > vers. So is this wrong or should prot warriors have a base level of vers which outweighs haste?
uneven mason
don't use AMR
marble cipher
That's like antorus and uldir bosses getting nerfed right when Ionis' guild is progressing them 😉
marble cipher
ilvl > haste > mastery/vers > crit, is what I usually take as a rule (over simplified) @thin pecan
uneven mason
In the pins there is a guide about stat, its a google doc put together by Marok, its pretty solid on explaining the what and why
So, haste is a damage smoother (due to faster GCD, shorter CD on Shield Block) while vers is actually better for RAW mitigation
thin pecan
ty very much guys
uneven mason
the goal of a prot warrior is to smooth damage out (or any tank really)
regular damage doesn't kill tanks, spikes do
marble cipher
No, it's "clap all the things"
uneven mason
well that's advanced prot
marble cipher
haha
uneven mason
TLDR; our stats are all so close together it doesn't matter what you use, but haste will make your play "feel" better
if you're ok with how your SB Uptime FEELs
than sure, stack vers (or mastery)
or crit
if it strikes your fancy
since crit is, in a vacuum our strongest mitigation stat, but due to its totally RNG nature is weakest for smoothing
marble cipher
crit gives parry right?
marble cipher
I never focus on crit though, but i guess a nice RNG'd parry is pretty lovely 😄
marble cipher
lovely
I preferred my > 50% dodge log on fetid on monk though, but, it's a lot easier to dodge than it is to get good rng on parry
uneven mason
because monks dodge has BLP
broken roost
parry party?
uneven mason
I prefer 91% mitigation tho
marble cipher
😄
haha, just saw that, how do you get that high in mit? some CD?
or a crit block?
uneven mason
CB+DS+IP+Armor
sick sentinel
50% party?
sand egret
opens discord
sees Mac’s crit pic
closes discord
signal plover
^
astral crystal
Same
old zephyr
Armor + critblock + CDs
uneven mason
the 91% is total reduction ~
counts absorb
@sand egret thought you liked it when I sent you crit pics
silk mortar
😏 Crit
sick sentinel
Crit pics gachiBASS
thorny laurel
Quick question: in SoB does a bolstered spotter causes the barrage or w/e its called to deal increased damage? If so, will it work on the last boss tentacles?
Cuz I know it works on adds on the 2nd boss but not the boss itself
eternal tundra
Is there somewhere I can find rankings of all generic azerite traits in comparison with the class specific ones?
My situation is that I wonder weather Blood Rite might outshine Bloodsport - which I doubt myself. But maybe someone with the math down can tell me
modern brook
iLvL > everything; if its the same piece default to Prot Option unless the other is really good
blood rite is solidly ok
Proc rate is lowish in my experience
I'd just chill with +5k IPs
uneven mason
its probably better for damage smoothing in raids
bloodsport might win in M+
although
been using a lot of IP lately
grand tiger
Whats better (I know they're both dps trinkets but they're the best ive got atm) 370 Disc of Systematic Regression Or DmD fathoms? (M+ Prot)
grand tiger
both proc dmg yes
modern brook
I'd say go for stats 🤷 whats your other trinket?
modern brook
eh; Tank trinkets suck
I use Vial + butchers block
trinkets exist for stat steroids on prot, IMO
as such; i still say use disc
that said Fathoms is dumb damage
cosmic cargo
dmd is prob the best damage
modern brook
and will probably out DPS it
cosmic cargo
also on the blood rite thing
i'd 100% pick blood rite on m+
it's such a strong trait
you don't need killing blow to extend duration btw
modern brook
I think blood rite vs bloodsport is pretty close
I'm also willing to argue ~7-10% ish increase in IP shield is better if only cause you can control it
Or rather
It is always available when you need it
crisp fractal
Hey fellow Tanks. Left or Right? 😃
modern brook
right
modern brook
🤷 i got avatar for damage 😄
But yeah
sport vs rite is close
i dont think either is a wrong choice
cosmic cargo
i would say it's a really easy choice
oblique garnet
Mythrax trinket aint bad
inland mesa
Mythrax trinket plus the cheat death one for prog seems sexy
modern brook
ebon lark
i had that scorp trinket during nighthold heroic progression with my guild, we were not the best obviously but it triggered per pull almost
inland mesa
I got a 395 cloak with socket and leech, and a 390 bracer last night. Wasted my WF luck last week of raid :'(
ebon lark
i wasted mine pre-uldir x.x got a 350 wrist from a heroic dungeon
uneven mason
355 gloves from world quest - wore them until we started mythic
modern brook
I had a 390 weapon and a 340 shield for most of this tier, tbh
limber tulip
yikes
sand egret
I was the opposite
380 socket shield week three and I had a 345 mh for months
heck i'm still using that damn shield
modern brook
together we make 1 end game viable prot
sand egret
be like the shitty Wonder Twins
ionic fern
From DPS standpoint in m+ would archive be worth 15 ilvls?
ebon hound
I hope not, I just salvaged it monkaS
uneven mason
depends what its up against
as a str stat stick
at 380 its worth using if you don't have a good trinket withint 25ilvls
sick sentinel
Maybe, depends on the trait it's against on your off piece. If you do a 15ilvl comparison on the STR gain its 625 (heroic piece) vs 823 (mythic piece with archive at max) @ionic fern
Archive has 100% uptime though, which adds even more value to the mainstat gain
really depends on what the trait is on your other piece
smoky mesa
does the iLvl > all also count for rings? Got decent 380 rings (vers/haste) and could switch to crit/mastery & crit /haste 385 rings
sick sentinel
Only if your only concern is EHP
It's not the case if you facilitate DPS gains into the question
Oh in that case, yes go for ilvl, it's gets more complicated from DPS perspective when sockets get thrown around
stark sage
sockets also have strong defensive value
its not just stam that we are after when recommending ilvl for upgrades
keen spire
shit
vocal elm
New to prot and warrior in general. How many ilvls is a socket worth?
vocal elm
For instance 355 bracers 47 Haste/73Vers with 40 haste gem compared to 370 bracers 56Crit/73 Vers.
stark sage
id lean towards the 370 but they look pretty equal to me
vocal elm
Leech add a lot more value to it?
vocal elm
Alright, thank you. Got asked to reroll last week since our tank went casual. Just trying to get a full understanding of the class and gear. Use to do caster DPS
charred geyser
Dying bad. Living good
vocal elm
Thats what I read on the guides, but wasnt sure how much weight sockets hold
stark sage
yeah it just depends, general rule of thumb if you add up all the stats whichever is higher will be better for dps. if you care about defense then you should probably stay with ilvl
15 is about the max for a socket
vocal elm
Thanks for the help ^_^
grizzled garnet
Better race for prot between Dark Iron or Kul Tiran
uneven mason
Both have their merit
Its somewhat of a toss up
KT has knockback/stun (which is handy since positioning control is something warriors lack) as well as a passive heal/defensive boost in that "heal 2% blah blah"
Dark Iron has Fireblood, which lets you eat shit that is killing you and make it give you armor/do more damage
4% movment isn't much but its noticeable
since nearly all dungeons (even "outdoor" ones) seem to trigger it
I'm Dark Iron right now, and being able to clear grevious, as well as a multitude of nasty shit (like berserker bleeds in KR)
has saved my ass more than once.
grizzled garnet
^ good points, thanks!
main vault
Well since you can only be one of them until at least MArch
Seems the choice is easy
And the racials for the other arent official yet
uneven mason
^^
sick sentinel
The correct answer is neither
Lightforged for a free 5% damage
👌
and an anvil which you can jebait your entire guild with when they need repairs
uneven mason
One of the racials is useless tho
that explosion when you die
Prot warriors don't die
broken roost
Re races - how about for horde? I'm thinking BE, Cow, and Moose would be the top 3? At least until we know the new troll racials
sick sentinel
😛
uneven mason
THey should rename that dispells in M+ guide to literally "Why Arcane Torrent is more OP than ever, and why this bothers no one but the void elves"
Know what racial KT needed
Anchor Chain
Swing a bigass Anchor around and pull all the mobs to you
🤑
modern brook
Definitely read "cwatI" as "cuh-wah-tle"
so
🐒
on topic: I actually think AT is the best designed racial in the game
Like at least from the viewpoint of my vision of what makes a successful racial abilitiy
namely that its useful on every class (or at least said races "flagship" classes) the race can take, doesnt break DPS meters, is impactful in some meaningful way
smoky oriole
Wtb all zandalari raids
inland mesa
only for RP to push the allliance filth out of our homeland, and incursions with tea
last mason
what would u you guys take, 2x brace or 1 brace 1 bloodsport
uneven mason
well
probably 2x brace
unless your goal is to make paladins look bad on healing meters
since BFI has a DPS component and Bloodsport does not
last mason
right, was just thinking that bloodsport might help a bit with self sustain
uneven mason
it certainly does add to your healing meters
"self sustain" might be a stretch though
sharp lotus
How many stacks do you guys make it to on the tank training dummy?
inland mesa
keep both if they're on different sets and if there's a magic heavy fight next tier stack bloodsport o.O
god, I haven't looked into fights enough for next week and work is so busy
I feel like guides are pretty lacking atm too
cobalt trellis
i assume we will switch our azerite really fast, due to more rings
inland mesa
also that, normal gives 385 with two rings
cobalt trellis
wq with 370 will also have 2 outer rings, basically everywhere 370+ (except uldir ones)
inland mesa
what ilvl do we need for WQ to scale up past 370, what's their new cap?
cobalt trellis
btw if the uldir ones will not change... but the azerite seller gives random ones... can those still be uldir ones?
i have no idea about the item level
trying to figure that out too
inland mesa
welp, I'm 390, so I guess I'll see if they go up on Tuesday
you'd hope they'd take those out of the pool of random ones, but....indy company
sick sentinel
They also have higher stam at the same ilvl
main vault
The old WQ ones did too
sick sentinel
Work that one out
inland mesa
we need more hp, don't question it 😄
sick sentinel
They more than likely will, which means back into mythic uldir after heroic BfD
fun times
inland mesa
I thought they came out and said they wouldn't so you didn't have to go back
sick sentinel
Nah it hasn't been confirmed
what do you mean no point
if they 2 traits instead of one
inland mesa
I was happy to never have to deal with Zul again
sick sentinel
its 100% worth to go back into Uldir to farm it
if you care about hardcore prog
I guess
inland mesa
archieve plus BoM
main vault
Farm?
After the first week they are 15-30 ilvls lower than anything else you are getting
So whats the point?
jade socket
little rain
Has anyone made a spreadsheet with all the azerites and their traits yet, before I smash my face against 32 web tabs?
jade socket
Don’t think uldir pieces will have them
main vault
I dont either
sick sentinel
It's two traits versus one trait
main vault
Yres
sick sentinel
if you have a chance at two traits for first week mythic prog
sand egret
Yeah i doubt Uldir will have the extra ring
jade socket
@inland mesa the random azerite pieces are only from dungeons
main vault
After the first week....................................
inland mesa
yeah I thought they explicitly said somewhere that going to uldir was pointless and won't have 2nd ring
sick sentinel
it has value for as long as you don't have BfD azerite
little rain
No point in speculating, you'll know within 30m of the patch hitting people will run heroic to check.
inland mesa
Is rando residium pieces by slot, or is it armor cache and can be anywhere anything
main vault
By slot
sick sentinel
Exactly it hasn't been confirmed or denied
I pray that its not
Im sick of Uldir
<_<
main vault
Other than them saying it, but sure
sand egret
It's rando chest slot, shoulders, helm @inland mesa. All their own token.
main vault
No, they havent said specifally no
But they listed which ones will, and Uldir wasnt listed
So
@inland mesa There are 9 pieces to buy
each ilvl, then by slot
inland mesa
and next week we still get wimpy value residium, and then the week after we get big boi value? I wonder how close I'll be to a random piece right away, probably 2nd week of mythic
sick sentinel
I'm sorry what game have you been playing @main vault blizzard and oversight has been the theme of this expansion
🐸
inland mesa
I think I'm just shy of 800 atm
sand egret
value goes up with the ilvl. so when overall ilvl increases come with s2, residum return goes up as well
main vault
If you are going back and "farming" Uldir you more than likely have at least a 385 in each slot
So still 0 point
inland mesa
but method is doing 230823608 split runs
inland mesa
I think they are, they're just class stacking and asking for help
main vault
Right, but you cant just have a cloth raid anymore
To gear a SPriest, you have all Spriests
sand egret
that's probably more to get their alts up to snuff so they have a full arsenal to flex with for the race
main vault
And Healer priests
modern brook
anyone understand how they're handling keys this week into next?
main vault
Yes I think most do
sharp lotus
4 level reduction
inland mesa
allegedly loses 4 levels the example was 11 to 7
main vault
The 1 you would already lose, plus 3 more
inland mesa
run a 16, get a 12 D:
pliant saffron
If i read the pins correct I keep a 345 piece with deaf crash over a 370 without correct?
main vault
I wouldnt
inland mesa
play with it, I personally don't like the feel without a DC
main vault
Surely by now the 370 is really 375
modern brook
DC > ilvl if you're using boom voice which you should be
sick sentinel
DC is godtier
main vault
Thats not accepted gearing anymore
modern brook
K
main vault
Most arent giving it up for 30
modern brook
Most dont have to
steady hawk
If my math is correct a lower level piece with DC will have you take more damage overall but at a smoother rate with less spikes in damage
modern brook
30 is.
modern brook
You're highly wrong 🤷
main vault
Ill give it up for 15, no way I give it up for 30
keen galleon
I disagree with Bull as well. DC isn't a necessary trait and booming voice isn't even a 100% necessary talent.
sick sentinel
Because the jury is still out on how impactful the nerf actually was
main vault
Ill wear a 385 anything over a 355 DC piece every day
sand egret
jury?
keen galleon
Devastator is a stronger st talent.
steady hawk
where is that math pinned at?
sick sentinel
@fierce juniper DC only worth 15 ilvls now, is this correct?
inland mesa
BV isn't necessary, DC sucks, this is bizaro land
sand egret
ain't pinned anymore
modern brook
are we unironically advocating for devestator now?
main vault
Who said 15?
keen galleon
I didn't say it sucks. I said it isnt 100% necessary, which is what taking a 30 ilevel hit to equip it says
modern brook
keen galleon
Devastator is better than booming voice ST. Our logs show that pretty clearly?
sand egret
wait for it....
main vault
Are people intentionally being dumb?
sick sentinel
Ya
keen galleon
Booming voice has no defensive value.
sick sentinel
Beautiful
modern brook
???????????
final mist
It gives Rage.
sick sentinel
Thanks @final mist ❤
keen galleon
40 rage. Devastator generates more than 40 rage over a 30s window.
main vault
What rage does it give?
inland mesa
Marok gonna smack you with some math
sand egret
the ol' rng rage
main vault
I cant in here right now, so much special going on
sand egret
vs on-demand
final mist
The marginal resets you gain may or may not be a rage increase, it's really not. And there are no ST fights in... any tier, really.
modern brook
@keen galleon that math is really ambitious
fierce juniper
I would say generally it's worth about 20-30 item levels, but it really depends on what you're comparing it to.
DC that is.
no math sorry im on a very very laggy laptop lol
sick sentinel
Appreciate it
modern brook
@fierce juniper do you have the numbers somewhere that you can post later to pin?
inland mesa
I tried screwing around 385 to 385 without DC and it just feels so ugly without one
sand egret
thats the funny part about this debate , because it's always in a vacuum without weighing what that other piece brings
sick sentinel
People just spouting nonsense about the nerf
main vault
PrawnqtToday at 1:01 PM
its maybe 30-35 now
sick sentinel
and thats 45 is it?
fierce juniper
@keen galleon Look at the talents spreadsheet in #268491842637660160 or the talent page on Icy Veins. Booming Voice generates far more rage than Devastator even if you assume best case for Devastator.
main vault
PrawnqtToday at 1:00 PM
DC is godtier
sick sentinel
y i k e s
main vault
We can go all day
final mist
@keen galleon Because I'm too lazy to argue a point Marok has already made in the guide: Devastator is simply worse for overall Rage generation. Even if you assume that 20% of your melee swings result in a full Shield Slam Icon Shield Slam reset, which would be 15 Rage per reset, this talent is on par with Vengeance Icon Vengeance or Booming Voice Icon Booming Voice at best. Realistically, most Shield Slam resets from Devastator would not be close to full value. Some resets would overlap with a reset from another ability, or a reset may line up where Shield Slam has a GCD left on its cooldown, meaning that reset did absolutely nothing for you. With that said, it should be clear that Devastator is not competitive when it comes to Rage generation.
main vault
bullfangoToday at 1:00 PM
DC > ilvl if you're using boom voice which you should be
sick sentinel
It is godtier, are you saying it's not?
final mist
And SS is 15 Rage, not 20.
modern brook
I dont get what point you're trying to prove right now nexii
sick sentinel
Espeically for DPS it's insane
???
Like where are you even going with this @main vault ??????
main vault
Dont make up bullshit, thats the point
modern brook
the guy asked if he should use 345 DC or 370 whatever
I said he should use DC over ilvl
keen galleon
Meh. No point arguing.
sand egret
what is the 370 piece.
modern brook
I dont think he said;; or at the very least i didnt read that far :^)
main vault
Dont know, thats why its a bullshit blanket statement
sand egret
well the real point is that it matters.
sick sentinel
Exactly, and that is correct especially if he doesn't have DC already
sand egret
imho
fierce juniper
I mean, go hit a dummy Zaeron. Cast Demo on CD with BV and then try again with Deva and compare total rage gained.
main vault
I wouldnt give up 30 ilvls for most War traits even if I didnt have DC
It isnt super op anymore
modern brook
BV also gives damage when it matters: ie Avatar windows
keen galleon
If you actually think DC is that good the answer is extremely obvious: take engineering and make a 415 helm with DC by week 3.
sharp lotus
But then no into the fray
steady hawk
y'all need to learn engineering and craft a 385 piece with 5 rings and DC as soon as you gather 15 tidal cores
main vault
Luck willing one will drop by then lol
keen galleon
I personally am doing that even though I think that DC and booming voice are overrated.
main vault
Thats 2 weeks of clears
signal plover
Lel
keen galleon
Sure.
Or you could just have a 415 piece with DC and the only % damage reduction in all of azerite.
keen galleon
Yes. 200 total breath. That's 18 heroic kills and one mythic kill.
steady hawk
week 2 if you are casual like me
main vault
So minimal week 2
keen galleon
Minimal first week of mythic, yes.
main vault
Assuming you get AotC week 1
keen galleon
If you're not getting aotc week one you're definitely not getting access to a 415 helm week 2.
main vault
Which if you think BV and DC are overated, I dont think itll happen
So we are now into week 3
keen galleon
Oh I'm definitely not getting aotc week one.
main vault
So for most, its roughly a month into tier
keen galleon
I think they're overrated, I still use em. I don't have sims to prove otherwise.
main vault
Or 2
keen galleon
3 to 5 weeks is likely, yes. What's your point??
Are you saying you expect me to have jadefire masters killed on mythix before I hit 200?
That seems very unlikely to me.
main vault
The point is you are planning on having it for prog, 1-2 months into prog
inland mesa
I believe in you and your voodoo feel good math
keen galleon
Anyone competing in mythic will have it for mythic prog.
This isnt even debatable
They will have 200 breath.
inland mesa
Ugh now you make me want to pick up engineering
keen galleon
Its a super good play dude, you 100% should
The jadefire masters helm is super strong but it's way better to be able to trade azerite to your dps
steady hawk
even an engineering helm with DCat 385 iLevel is still better than my 375 sholder with DC
main vault
depends what your other shoulders are
keen galleon
At the very worst case your engie helm will be 400 and have DC plus spark capacitor
main vault
You cant just compare a helm and shoulder and say its better
steady hawk
390 with brace for impact
