astral crystal
so i'm confused what your point is
#protection
final mist
Guilds that were wiping at 1% pre-nerf would have a much easier time after the nerf.
stone cloud
yes
sick sentinel
What are BiS trinkets for Prot atm? Guide on Icy Veins seems not updated it that terms. I see you are talking about world boss trinket. Second BiS outside of Uldir?
stone cloud
saying sub 1% wipes still happen
final mist
Your point is asinine though. Saying a HP nerf doesn't matter because guilds still wipe is like saying that gear upgrades don't matter because you're just gonna get another upgrade later.
The HP nerf is still relevant.
vocal nimbus
god bless the hp nerf to get the kill for the rest of the benched raiders
final mist
@sick sentinel There's no real BiS trinkets, just a few that are decent that you'll want to look out for. Typically, ilevel will win out for most trinkets anyways.
main vault
Raiding doesnt matter cause there will be another raid
steel mauve
5% hp nerf on an end tier mythic boss is pretty huge
zinc mauve
your trinket choice largely depends on what you need more than anything
if you want DPS and are using blockades... consider changing your priorities
sick sentinel
@final mist Thank You for replying. So I assume that 385 Knot of Ancient Fury & 380 Doom Fury are ok?
zinc mauve
two on-use trinkets are kinda bad to have though compared to proc trinkets
its better to have one on-use and one proc, but its still fine
drowsy relic
why?
sick sentinel
@final mist others are a lot more ilvls down, I got Rezan but 840 and 325 Jes Howler... 😃
final mist
Depends on what you're doing. People run two on-use in M+ to line them up with Avatar consistently, for example.
main vault
Using one puts the other on CD
final mist
A short CD.
zinc mauve
But a CD none-the-less
main vault
30sec is 33% of the cd
final mist
You'll never typically want them popped at he same time in M+ anyways. That's the point.
zinc mauve
if the usage windows dont line up, its perfectly fine, but its ultimately how you use it that determines how much, if at all, that it affects your DPS
sick sentinel
@zinc mauve Thanks for insight, I'll keep that in mind, if anything decent drops.
final mist
You only use them with Avatar, so that short CD doesn't matter.
zinc mauve
rezan's trinket from atal dazar or the butcher from waycrest manor are both fantastic DPS options
drowsy relic
idk if its not on use its not that good for dps
sick sentinel
Thanks a lot for replys You guys, I thing i have a grasp of it now, cheers ❤
zinc mauve
he already has one on-use trinket so the point is to mention passive ones
zinc mauve
On-use is in general superior for predictable DPS, but if you have two trinkets like that already you cant exactly use them both for a dps spike like Avatar. Proc trinkets are useful in that they increase your DPS in general rather than during a specific window
primal river
steel mauve
thats a lot of variables in that situation
sick sentinel
you mean overall?
marble cipher
Over 9000
olive moss
Should I use the pvp upgrade token to get my shield to 385 or my shoulders(deafening crash piece)? both are 370 ilvl rn
lavish oracle
@primal river On 4 targets, I pull ~30-35k with avatar up
22-25k over ~80 seconds (just enough time for 2 avatar windows)
@olive moss Personally I'd go with the shield since I'm probably gonna buy 400 azerite randoms as soon as the raid releases
Although I'll probably reroll the shield off the first boss a few times until I get it too
¯_(ツ)_/¯
olive moss
Yeah I have a ton of 385 azerite but the only deafening crash piece I can get my hands on was from pvp
lavish oracle
DC shouldn't be as hard to come by next patch with the 2nd class ring getting added
warm plinth
Is the 2nd class ring getting retrofitted? Or only new gear will have it?
lavish oracle
Only new gear
main vault
2 of the first 3 pieces have DC iirc
lavish oracle
I think there are like 4 pieces with it in total
open bluff
5 pieces have DC in BoD
lavish oracle
Oh even better/worse
main vault
Yeah I thought it was 5
I just couldn’t remember if it was 2 or 3 from the first bosses
cold owl
Engineering helm has DC and bloodsport
high folio
should i be prioritizing thunder clap over revenge with avatar popped?
ebon hound
over everything, assuming you have Unstoppable Force talented
high folio
even over SS?
open bluff
yes
ebon hound
it does more dmg than ss
high folio
oh damn okay
open bluff
TC -> SS -> revenge is your avatar prio with UF (which you should never not have talented)
high folio
gotcha
lavish oracle
Yep, if you're ever wondering how you could be doing more damage, like 90% of the time the answer is "hit thunderclap more"
high folio
lmao got it
lavish oracle
Think it's worth grabbing a DC piece that doesn't also have BoM on it for raid?
high folio
is their a list of BiS azertie traits somewhere?
lavish oracle
😛
It's in the icy veins guide, they're ranked by defensive ability so BoM is ranked pretty low despite being great for DPS
@main vault Yeah, I'm targeting the Opulence Head and Conclave shoulders for those
warm plinth
Yeah I think it might be a good idea to do like a M+ priority for traits either on the Azerite page or the M+ Tips page on the guide. Or at least put an M+ mention on BoM's description (though I could see that being missed relatively easily).
main vault
Let’s be real, there is no point
It’s been in the pins but people don’t read
They won’t read it there either
Doesn’t say m+ specific
warm plinth
I think there will still be people asking, sure. But others won't. Using that logic, there shouldn't be a guide at all because people don't read it.
warm plinth
Yeah but the information they're reading on IV "As such, this trait can be a bit hit or miss. The other spec specific traits provide a much more consistent survivability increase", and the information they see here "omg DCx1, BoMx2 is the dream" is pretty contradictory. I know it says survivability on there, but that isn't tantamount to saying it's good for damage.
main vault
It kinda just has talents then a rundown of the affixs
warm plinth
Yeah, it is. But honestly that's the same in all class guides; I wonder if that's just how IV decided it had to be set up?
main vault
I know they are somewhat restricted in what they put
lavish oracle
Honestly, I'd never go 2xBoM unless I just really didn't give a fuck about survivability
lavish oracle
'cause a 40% uptime mastery boost is worse for survivability than our other traits
warm plinth
Yeah, not to mention you do get the free IP every what, 40-60 seconds. It's still a halfway decent survival trait, just not as good as the other 4 it mentions.
Or 5 rather
lavish oracle
Yeah, it's not bad
main vault
Just because something isn’t as good doesn’t make it bad
lavish oracle
I just wouldn't stack it unless I was going full damage mode
main vault
I guess
main vault
you gain more benefit in m+ getting more dmg than more survival
warm plinth
I see what you're saying, but a lot of people do go full damage in M+
main vault
And if you gain a large amount of dmg, and also gain survival
warm plinth
That's a significant reason why everyone is excited for the 2nd class ring, because you can get more BoM for M+ lol
main vault
Thats better than a trait giving you large survival and minimal dmg
steel mauve
at some point we get so tanky that gaining even more tankiness wont help us, but more dps is always a gain
main vault
So do more
warm plinth
You already reduce damage too. Not great logic.
main vault
If you already survive, surviving more wont help you push the key
But getting more dmg will
steel mauve
technically you could consider survival itself to have a DR on it where getting more just kind of doesnt add any thing, you already dont die, healer isnt sweating at all or is bored, but gaining more dps will always be beneficial and stuff can always die quicker
warm plinth
And besides, who doesn't want to see by just how much they can beat the DPS on overall 😉
steel mauve
but there comes a point where you just dont live more
lavish oracle
I mean, when you're pushing keys, more survival is always going to be helpful
If you're just doing 10s every week, yeah, go for 2x BoM
go hog wild on the meters
steel mauve
kind of the opposite where more dps will be a lot more helpful in higher keys, and some are doing 17's-19's with out kiting much if at all and still gearing for dps
warm plinth
Just out of curiosity, if not BoMx2 in M+, what would you use?
You said you don't like BoMx2, or wouldn't always use it, whatever
What would you use instead?
lavish oracle
Bloodsport or Archive
main vault
So then why do the players who push the highest keyts not use that logic?
steel mauve
even before that the gearing was double archive for more dps lol
lavish oracle
Archive at least gives armor
steel mauve
choose archive over bom because bom is more dps?
main vault
And BoM gives mast for crit block during massive pulls
warm plinth
A LOT of mastery too
steel mauve
if you choose archive for the armor then why not just go with bfi or IF for the survival?
since both those choices are better
main vault
They all use a mixture of traits
warm plinth
I think it'd be fun to try out triple BfI and triple IF (if possible) on a purely blockable fight. 🤔
main vault
DC, Archive, BS, IF, and BfI
lavish oracle
I don't have an IF piece, tbh
Archive is good because it increases your damage significantly and has a survival component that stacks with BoM
main vault
Yeah at least they know its a failed terrible systewm
fleet goblet
I got prot enabled in simc last night, expect it to come through in nightlys, there's still a lot of work to do though
fleet goblet
now people can review it and point out problems instead of asking where it is
main vault
The main problem is the backend information isn’t right
Which people can’t review
Most people at least
Things like spell_data and etc
fleet goblet
some isnt, I fixed missing avatar, ppl can run sims and compare in game to sim which highlights discrepencies
main vault
Will be a good start then
I was looking at it the other day and figured it would be a good 2-3 month til it’s actually useable
Based on how much time I could put in
fleet goblet
yeah, I've been looking at it since not long after bfa dropped
but I have a full time job and a family, fortunately blizzard made the game super boring lately so I decided to do something
and I learned some trivia, cant use a 1 damange blacksmith hammer or a 1 damage dirk to cast revenge or heroic throw... they're not weapons 😛
main vault
Yeah I got full time school and started raiding again
Catching up on the azerite grind stopped me from doing it lol
sick sentinel
The best survival is killing things faster.
somber dragon
so... i now have 2xBoM and 1xDC
i feel like i need to go pull like a smeggin idiot 😄
somber dragon
over 45% crit block chance with double BoM running... dear god
sick sentinel
@main vault ?
Nobody edits spell_data
It's programmatically extrapolated from game data
Unless you're referring to something I'm wrong about
vast anvil
I compare my logs with higher DPS prot warriors, and I seem to be missing a HUGE chunk of thunder claps, and kind of a total # of casts as well. How to not suck pls
sweet kettle
2xBastion of might and Deafening Crash for dungeons or 1xBastion 1xDeafening 1xBrace for Impact
i havent experimented with 2 Bastion of mights yet
somber dragon
i have 2 bastion and a dc now, should get some time with it soon (:
merry cave
I run 1 BOM and 1 archive and it feels nice, dps is good and feel tanky
somber dragon
even at my shit ilvl the difference is kidna insane, especially stacked with that feather click-mastery that lines up pretty well with avatar 😄
lavish oracle
@raczcar#6920 you're running UF I take it?
vast anvil
Unstoppable force yes
lavish oracle
Its probably just a matter of making sure you're using avatar and thunderclap as soon as they come off CD, then. Alternatively, whats your haste?
main vault
@sick sentinel I’m referring to something else
lavish oracle
Wowanalyzer can also help, its not perfect for prot but it will tell you what % of encounter time each ability spends on cooldown
vast anvil
It doesnt do prot
vast anvil
it just says Oh no sorry b prot isnt supported
but looking into warcraftlogs is where I've found some knowledge
Some fights I die on yeah but sometimes there is a huge difference in number of casts
lavish oracle
There should be an option to view it anyways, its been a while since I looked at it
I think its a little link near the bottom
vast anvil
sick sentinel
@main vault the class module spell hooks?
vast anvil
me on the right, a lot better player on the left. time of fights is 4:46 to 6:57. its vectis
lavish oracle
"Continue anyway" below the github link
vast anvil
it bonkers the difference of casts of devastate is 6 - 106. Should I just take it off my bars
lavish oracle
Yeah, that is a huge number of devestate casts
chilly bramble
I thought you had the devastate passive or something
If those are actual casts yeah absolutely do everything but devastate
steel mauve
it shouldnt be off your bars as it fills in a gcd but it shouldnt be your top used spell
what log are you comparing it to?
last mason
anyone have that hidden appearance macro
steel mauve
and ya i wouldnt use wowanalyzer, its not updated for prot and the information will most likely be accurate
vast anvil
@chilly bramble Sometimes there is nothing up so I just devastate I suppose but I will be more mindful of it now
@steel mauve one second ill find it
Just picked out another higher parse with same talents and similar item gear. getting similar time would be too hard to find
steel mauve
vectis is a bad fight to compare for that then
they had 2 intermission phases, you had 3, if you cant compare with similar times then pick a fight that doesnt have a phase where you twiddle your thumbs for 30 seconds
doing 0 damage for 30 seconds demolishes your dps
chilly bramble
@vast anvil yeah if there's nothing but devastate it's definitely the filler to use, but i think you're defaulting to devastate and not noticing things being available. Make sure you're not missing any revenge or shield slam procs and don't devastate if one of yyour other skills have like .5 seconds on their CD
vast anvil
Thank you
steel mauve
6 devestates does seem low though for a 5 min fight
that is even lose for a pre 8.1 fight
vast anvil
It was just the first semi-random log I pulled up
graceful cobalt
hi how can i sim my prot warrior or is there no way? i allways get fail no active player
final mist
Sims don't work, that's why.
SimCraft does not currently support Protection Warrior simming.
graceful cobalt
ok thx
fleet goblet
@final mist prot was enabled last night however there are still many things not verified
true plover
Are there any M+ instances where prot struggles enough that another tank would be much better?
lavish oracle
@fleet goblet that's for RaidBots, right? I'm still getting this error
fleet goblet
its for base simulationcraft, not sure when downstream projects will update
sick sentinel
@true plover no, affixs will affect prot the same way it would other tanks. There is no "bad" dungeon anymore, as we can now block ranged attacks
Magic is our only real weakness. Dots are always going to be a problem for all tanks if not managed right
But even then with magic we have the CDs to deal with it
SotS is the worst thing ever this week.
Well Shrine, Temple and KR are troubled dungeons
nova rover
Shrine is ass, temple was 1 key, kr is all about comp
main vault
Shrine is shit cause people are stupid mostly
nova rover
We have had clean runs but not fast enough, but the make or break is boss 2
nova rover
Well kr I’ve found with puggers if boss 1 gold isn’t handled yer screwed
main vault
Well yeah, but it’s constantly 1-2 key levels behind
nova rover
I’m concerned next week, we did kr first explosive and damned orbs would spawn inside the square we can’t get
lavish oracle
Does anyone know if Glick streams?
There's a stream page listed on their r.io page but it has 0 vods
nova rover
No idea sorry
quiet crane
Hey all how are we
sick sentinel
hey all i've got a question about sots fortified/grievious and hopefully someone can help me here 😃 I was trying to run a sots +12 yesterday with a restoration shaman guild heal. group composition was ele shaman, balance druid and warlock..... i exchanged "into the fray" for "impending victory" as my shaman healer had some issues with grievous and this seemed to work for this week so far. but i was utterly destroyed by those damn caster trash. i was rotating demo shout, sr, sw and spamming ip best i could..... any tips for me ? dps seemed pretty ok. we would like to push sots 11 now again.
merry cave
Interupt water bolt (not the other ground target spell). Make sure no one doubles up, make sure they know when your going to spell reflect
main vault
Interrupts
merry cave
Use IP only if it's just casters don't need block
main vault
If you miss interrupts you are dead
merry cave
Nah you can eat 1-2 to the face with no cd up to about 15 and make it out if your healer is ok
Boomy beam should lock them out for ages though
main vault
Sure
But if he is talking about rotating demo, SR, SW and Demo, thats not eating 1 or 2
merry cave
I don't disagree
Best advice is to get everyone an interupt tracking wa and call order over voice coms
lavish oracle
You can be kind of tricky with LoS if you can't rely on your DPS to interrupt where if you pull the casters somewhere where you can easily break LoS like a pillar or corner, you can just continually break LoS every cast but it's probably problematic on sanguine
sick sentinel
it was a pug group so no voice :/ thanks for all your help! i will try to LOS and do at kleast an interrupt rotation with my shaman heal eating 1-2 of those spells was merely fine, but i guess the dds where interrupting the other casts which you can walk out of, too.... kinda explains the immense dmg i received :/
guess problem is me & and my heal lack sots experience, as we were avoiding this dungeon as best as we could 😄
lavish oracle
You also have a pretty good suite of interrupt tools of your own, if you take stormbolt; 2 relatively short stuns, a fear, spell reflect and your interrupt
When you're interrupting stuff your self, make sure you don't interrupt Wash Away since it's easily dodgeable and has a fairly long cast time
final mist
SotS is pretty vital to make sure that you have interrupts down. That's also kind of a shitty group comp for making sure interrupts are good.
I wouldn't swap off ItF for IV btw, you lose far too much.
lavish oracle
I mean, RShaman, Ele shaman, and tank should be able to cover interrupts
Not that I trust PUG Ele shaman's to interrupt
final mist
During Grievous week, it's gonna be real hard for a healer to justify stopping a cast to interrupt to themselves.
Especially Shaman healers.
sick sentinel
my rshaman and i dont have any problems with interrupts to time our interrupts in other dungeons so far... but sots was ... well slightly too much for us :/ @final mist you would stay with ItF for grievious weeks =
final mist
I never don't use ItF. It's far too good.
sick sentinel
@lavish oracle yeah we dont trust pugs so much either.... thats why we usually interrupt together via voice...
i usually stay with Itf too, but my rshaman felt way better with IV..... guess i'll try sots 11 with ITF again tonight and see how it will work out
lavish oracle
@final mist Oh, that's fair, honestly forgot it was a grievous week, haven't been running keys that much this week
sick sentinel
thanks for all your quick help! hopefully we are ableto clear sots tonight 😃
lavish oracle
Good luck
vast anvil
maybe try to continuously LOS if you aren't confident in your interrupts
LOS mobs, but somehow keep your healer in sight
unless they are hackers and they shoot you through walls
lavish oracle
Another thing I find helpful when I have to rely on PUG interrupts is to assign DPS shapes from raid markers and mark the things I want interrupted mid pull
helps to have raid markers keybound for that, though
solemn kelp
is there an app or macro that helps with easy marking of mobs in packs in dungeons?
main vault
You can mouseover raid marker with skull and etc
solemn kelp
Thanks but how does that work exactly? Like a modified mouse click or is there no way around right click->select marker
warm plinth
You can keybind target markers in the blizz default UI.
ESC>Key Bindings>Target Markers
solemn kelp
Oh heck, that simple? Thanks
solemn kelp
aha awesome thank you very much
main vault
Yeah you’d change target to mouseover and you can change the numbers for the diff marks
modest wedge
What does SB block ranged attacks? It does not say it on tooltip 🙃
void sonnet
I use addon "opie" for this. One bind for all of them. No need to click anything.
stone crag
it's a relatively new addition to block @modest wedge
ranged physical attacks
not spells
too much effort to update tool tips 4head
steady dragon
i know we're nearing the last reset before next tier
but does anyone have a chomp-tank fetid log of someone doing it right
i always nearly die once or twice
final mist
I only missed one because I was falling asleep xd
I had SW available but I just didn't use it because of it
Basically, watch his timers and don't use SB until he starts the cast for Thrash (it has a short cast), and you should be fine
There's enough downtime in between all of his other casts that you shouldn't miss any with SB or LS
final mist
SB covers one, LS should cover two, and all his other abilities casts should let you recover in between them
If you don't have either for some reason and don't have another option, SW will cover two and should be fine on its own - if you don't feel safe with just SW, call for an external to help (ex. Ironbark)
steady dragon
its odd, looking at my logs im not overlapping SB with anything (but demo shout)
yet im forced into taking 1 naked + 3 external chomps
would you be able to find faults in this?
i tried wowanalyser but prot warrs are scuffed in that regard it seems
stone crag
🤣
cosmic cargo
play like a pussy and take HR 
steady dragon
but i want to be gud
@final mist could that be due to faster killtime on the adds in my log?
(i havent checked, but that would lead to the boss swalking around less)
cosmic cargo
tbh I can't speak, its easier on pala, I still occassionally fuck up
steady dragon
🤔
final mist
Wait, you have a DK main tanking?
ionic fern
😂
final mist
???
ionic fern
He has monk/Prot
final mist
Ah
steady dragon
😅
final mist
Sorry, I'm in the middle of a dungeon atm
final mist
But nah, BoP covers two if times correctly, and you can make him do the same with DS
steady dragon
completely forgot 😅
but bop might be the saving grace then
and is it usual to parse greys? it feels terrible, but im chalking it up to just not pressing revenge
would assume MT'ing fetid gives you revenge procs which is a dps gain
final mist
MTing Fetid is more DPS since he's actively hitting you, as well as the Revs
Pad on the adds more for DPS too
strong forum
Grey parses always mean you are doing something wrong or don't have enough ilvl
cosmic cargo
for logs both prots want to MT
strong forum
That's my take on it
cosmic cargo
need those parries
steady dragon
thats what i figured too nome
but i didnt feel too much wrong with my rotation
which is why im confused
cosmic cargo
cheap bastard
cosmic cargo
what was gale force again?
strong forum
Gale force is big yikes
steady dragon
i was thinking about gale and how it seemed useless for prot
but icy veins said it and im bad so
final mist
Your casts for a bunch of stuff is rather low as well, ex. 14 SB casts compared to my 20
cosmic cargo
wtf is gale force? 🤔
steady dragon
more auto attacks @cosmic cargo
strong forum
The only time where gale force could he even remotely considered would be if you go devastator
cosmic cargo
oh yikes
final mist
IV doesn't have Gale Force at all
steady dragon
i'll switch that up then 😅
mustve been lazy while reading both arms and prot at the same time
strong forum
Ye
final mist
Having no Str Pots during Avatar / Lust windows is a big loss on DPS
The enchant is a massive difference too
cosmic cargo
prolonged power
steady dragon
nah but ty for looking at my logs, appreciate it
final mist
I'm a little richer than most, but gold isn't really that hard to make
A little effort, sure, but it's worth it
steady dragon
i don't want to actively spend time making gold in wow, when theres more fun things to do
so cutting corners during farm weeks where im not going for logs in the first place is an easy money saver
steady dragon
i'd be real worried about my brain if im trying to parse and parsing 22's
hot locust
@timid jay hiiiii I miss you! 👋
stone crag
🤣
timid jay
I forgot marok did this to us
hot locust
no fun allowed
final mist
timid jay
Just like wow
final mist
Fun is allowed in FFXIV
hot locust
just boost you ape
final mist
^
final mist
Boost to 60, level to 70, ggez
hot locust
Yeah I can understand that feeling.
final mist
Same
hot locust
Good thing I can just raid log and only play 2 days a week on prog :^)
Bad thing I'm the fuckin' GM now so I have to do all the work outside v__v
timid jay
Yikes
That's why I quit a few months into bfa
That and the game doing all those really good changes for fun :^)
final mist
You got promoted to GM suddenly and had to put in work?
stone crag
lol
final mist
Oh fuck I was making a joke
timid jay
I just wanted to tank things
final mist
😬
hot locust
dw Cosmo I'll tank things in your memory ❤
final mist
Yeetus deletus, Marok pepe us
timid jay
Yeetus deletus, Maroks Pepe is smalletus
stone crag
😂
stone crag
at sense
timid jay
oof
hot locust
but she still shows up here 😛
timid jay
krotos still plays as well?
hot locust
havent seen him in a bit I think
final mist
Quite a few people haven't shown up in a while
timid jay
Wheres my boy @abrodus
stone crag
:thyme:
stone crag
facts
hot locust
oof
timid jay
Yikes
timid jay
Reading acherus
stone crag
dreamgove was calling him
steady dragon
cosmo me as reddit tanking mvp i need to keep up with the tanking discords i represent
final mist
stone crag
reddit tanking mvp
final mist
🤔
stone crag
yiiiikes
timid jay
The prot warrior reddit tanking MVP
steady dragon
im a celebrity dude
final mist
Oof
timid jay
I remember reading a tanking thursday
timid jay
and he was recommending people play vengeance + indom in antorus
I just kinda gave up on tanking thursday after that
hot locust
yikes
final mist
Every time I go to Reddit for the tanking Tuesday thing (which is like once a year), I read like three posts and then have to leave before my IQ starts dropping
I can't lose any points as is
timid jay
Havent you seen Sal in here?
stone crag
sal lost all his patience from here
final mist
👏👏👏
timid jay
I think one of the first posts I ever saw of you Sal was flaming someone
Linking that picture with "git gud"
final mist
Abrodus took all my patience to wherever he is now with him
I try to be patient, but I can't handle when someone gives excuses for poor play or another aspect
timid jay
What do you mean
final mist
Or especially when someone is performing badly and thus forcing someone else to do the work for them
final mist
Like when some tank's cotank or RL comes here to ask why their warrior is doing badly
That shit fucks my day up
cosmic cargo
can someone confirm something for me: was there any way to actively generate rage in cata or was it just autos/getting hit/blocking?
timid jay
That was 90% of the logs I looked into during legion Sal
cosmic cargo
i'm almost sure of option 2
cosmic cargo
that kind of people don't usually use analyzer tbh
final mist
Warriors no good with maths
timid jay
🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔
steady dragon
me swing sword
steady dragon
me strong
final mist
Warrior is for fight
cosmic cargo
tbh pala only got wowanalyzer recently
and thanks to a brewmaster
@urban monolith our saviour
stone crag
we all work together
timid jay
We all lift together
stone crag
🔨
final mist
Listen I tried my best in Legion and was super proud of myself when I got SB working
timid jay
Yeeet
cosmic cargo
i might work on simc soon
final mist
Just because I never touched it again after that doesn't mean I didn't try my best
cosmic cargo
might
timid jay
@turbid robin
stone crag
yeet freely here
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @final mist
timid jay
Does eyir still crash all the time?
cosmic cargo
i think the apl part will be easy after the backend is done
stone crag
i recall it going down last week orso
timid jay
APL was done ages ago
final mist
APL is always easiest part
timid jay
For prot warriors
hollow thorn
@gilded tendon sucks
timid jay
unluck
hollow thorn
i tricked it
final mist
Nah she just doesn't respond to normies
timid jay
Eyir sucks
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @timid jay
final mist
👏👏
timid jay
ez
stone crag
Eyir sucks
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @stone crag
stone crag
👋
final mist
You don't count Art, you're clearly a koreaboo
hollow thorn
eyir doesnt sucks
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @hollow thorn
stone crag
how would i know
stone crag
:detective:
hollow thorn
eyir being rude when im being nice smh
timid jay
Eyir is just speaking the truth
final mist
Oof
timid jay
Nice
sick sentinel
@steady dragon if you get quick nav you will get faster CDs and faster SB recharge so you might block more thrashes
also more rage so more IPs
btw I just had an atal where where after a pack of raptors I had like 50% health and 4 grievous and the healer had like 5% mana so I stood for a sec to reset stacks and the healer to start drinking so I can pull
and this mage just auto runs in the raptors, gets jumped by the entire group and dies instantly and then types "tank??"
sinful bay
classic
sick sentinel
he did like once more but I was ready with ava charge clap and got aggro
he died to fireballs though
hollow thorn
What lvl was the key?
Sounds like a classic 10, but wouldnt be surprised if it was a 15
round vortex
Gotta love Zul trash lol.
Thats one pack of the little AOE dudes. One pack being all three small packs together.
ivory light
Heard one azerite trait is basically required for prot, from tldr pin I'm guessing it's deafening crash?
round vortex
yup
cinder pasture
You’re guessing right !
round vortex
I run Deafening Crash, Brace for Impact and Archive of the titans (which switches to Brace for IMpact in M+)
ivory light
Gotcha. Toons basically gonna be m+ only for selling carries, just wanted to level em up before next tier for ez gear
cosmic cargo
if your use will be selling carries you'll prob want 3x BoM
but 3x BoM + DC will be super easy in S2
ionic fern
And here i am without a single BoM. 😦
cosmic cargo
there's at least one raid piece per slot with BoM
iirc
some slots multiple pieces
ionic fern
In uldir?
graceful cobalt
how good is the trinket on tor what give strange and spwan spore that heals me for 10k and make damage for tanks?
cosmic cargo
yeah dazar'alor, not uldir
ionic fern
Uldir has one. 😦
hasty sapphire
370 rezan trinket or 390 Disc better for M+?
hollow thorn
390 Disc
thin ore
so, I made a warrior alt. I am a cutting edge mt, but never played prot warrior before. Anything apart from the deafening crash thing I should now before jumping into m+/raids today?
like: this is the most common rookie mistake ever
cosmic cargo
I guess don't forget your CDs come up like twice as fast as a paladin's
old zephyr
CDs are part of the rotation
Don't clip Shield block into bolster
for M+ :
Bigpull, Avatar, Bolster => dump rage on IP, Rince and repeat
thin ore
what is bolster?
signal plover
Talent
ionic fern
Hmpf, i usually pop SB first on big pulls and after that i can Bolster when one SB is still recharging.
signal plover
U should be able to do 3x SB before LS nowadays
thin ore
shield block in general seems pretty powerful
ionic fern
Jeap.
thin ore
how common is it in adequatly difficult content that your ip absorb is depleted before it runs out?
dire wyvern
Yeh its a 40-50k absorb, it will get melted fast if you're actively tanking
thin ore
so, you pool rage and shield block charges while off tanking?
signal plover
Still remains relatively solid as the filler mitigation
dire wyvern
put rage into revenge to not cap ofc
thin ore
40-50k? that's like one hit from mythrax
signal plover
Don't wanna cap rage and you can pool but it's not really necessary to pool with the standard talent build
thin ore
don't know about warrior numbers, but bdk and pala get like up to 90k auto-attacks from mythrax with shitty gear
dire wyvern
whilst tanking mythrax you can probs have 100% SB uptime
with 3x SB > bolster > more SB
but i dont know
signal plover
Yeah mythrax is pretty easy to have 100 effective uptime on
dire wyvern
yeh should be able to look at a log for it
signal plover
I don't have an 8.1 mythic mythrax log lol
unborn island
Is there an addon which works out boss swing timers, so that you can save precious seconds on SB? I try and do it, but it's pretty hit and miss doing it by watching the boss
dire wyvern
no, any log
signal plover
Mostly just learn by doing for me on boss swing timers @unborn island . Not too rough get a feel for after a couple pulls. I haven't seen an add-on that will do it tho
cosmic cargo
unless you time SB exactly when the auto happens knowing the auto timers won't help
swing timer is divisible by DS duration so you'll pretty much always get the same number of swings
signal plover
Ya it's a minor min/max. Knowing when a boss is likely to do a long ability cast is more useful imo
cosmic cargo
I mean DS duration is divisible by swing timer
signal plover
I think he was talking SB not DS
signal plover
U got demo on ur mind bb
thin ore
ds=divine shield :O my brain
cosmic cargo
its also demon spikes
thin ore
rip
errant wing
and demo shout
thin ore
today it shall be demo shout
thin ore
many tank discord know much stuff about multiple tank specs
for example I learned how to dps effectively as bdk
in the prot pala discord :o
signal plover
Thats cuz the DK discord is a silly place
thin ore
jeah, I wholeheartedly recommend hammer of wrath for all your bdk needs :D
do you ever not take bolster?
ionic fern
Never happened thus far. 🤷
signal plover
My top three tips for an experienced tank messing around with prot warr are:
-
Rely on fight knowledge to be preemptive with all mitigation, including SW which many mistakenly sit on as an oh shit button.
-
Rage Management and spending are key to get Max use out of AM. Know when to burn through and when to save a little
-
Our IcyVeins guide is solid (maintained by skyhold admins) and can be trusted as a reference for just about everything. @thin ore
old zephyr
@unborn island Most of boss swings are 1.5 or 2 secs appart.
For SB purposes no matter how you time it it will always block the same number of attcks .
Bolster may be able to get 1 more it in its frame if you time it well, but I'm not sure it's wirth the trouble
unborn island
I get that you'll get the same number of attacks, I was thinking more that you can save 1.5-2 seconds of recharge by hitting it 'right' before a swing, rather than than having 'dead' time? Was just a thought
signal plover
GL with that with wow latency
thin ore
if I need to decide between shield block and ip, what do I press first?
dire wyvern
SB
signal plover
Depends on incoming dmg
dire wyvern
yeh unless you're gonna get a magic blast
signal plover
If it's blockable then SB
cosmic cargo
@old zephyr in theory you can get 1 extra block I'd you time it absolutely perfect
in practice that doesn't happen
*if you
cosmic cargo
yeah you'd need perfect latency and reactions
cosmic cargo
hence why in practice its always 3 blocks on 2 sec timer and 4 on 1.5
signal plover
🍿
old zephyr
swings are like 1.51
and 2.02 secs on most of my analysus
cosmic cargo
assuming no casts in between ofc
old zephyr
obviously
unborn island
If you were Sco you could just tell everyone how warrior is trash tier and then not use it ever (I'm still stuck in Legion, maybe this has changed)
signal plover
Sorry for baits
karmic halo
@thin ore Shield block is superior damage prevention, assuming the damage you take can be blocked. So if it's blockable use that first. (I hear physical ranged attacks can be blocked now in 8.1) If it's magic damage, then ignore pain as shield block does not reduce magic damage at all.
old zephyr
Shield block is superior Per rage damage prevention because it usually last longer than IP (IP only absorb 50K ish)
Assuming you can only use One IP MAY be better against some 1off, before tankswaps
SB is better of 1offs, if the damage is around 150K, else IP is better
But most of the time since there is autohits added to that SB is the best
cosmic cargo
with high enough mastery + block traits SB might actually be better on average per hit even
actually don't need that much for it to be
karmic halo
If you're currently tanking, you will also likely find situations where you can use both if really needed.
old zephyr
the Rage train is not as fast as legion, but it's still pretty fast
Avatar = 20 rage + the rage from TCs
DemoShout = 40 rage
Bolster = 75 rage (even if it does not contribute to anger management, not having to spend rage for SB means more rage for IP)
naive panther
Engineering helmet something you guys are going after early on? Just took engineering and leveled it so I have it on prot and vengeance now. I noticed for prot it has the talent we want one of. Imagine that could be helpful as a guaranteed piece
modern brook
🤷 im just gunna roll 3 slots and call that BIS
that is to say I think DC will be less elusive in the coming tier that,if you didnt want to dump resources into it, would make engineering superfluous
and obviously Ilvl>everything else so 🤷 I dont think we need to prof change for gear in the coming raid
cosmic cargo
engineering helm is really good
the engineering T3 and T2 picks are amazing
*T1 and T2
idk what it has on the bonus tier though
old zephyr
It is good since it gives US the DC we want
naive panther
Looks pretty solid to me, I just hope the 415 version will be available early enough to even use it. if anything it is decent back up if you get screwed on helm or other slots
old zephyr
it is not AMAZINGLY good, because DC is now a lot easier to obtain
naive panther
Cause I made the 340 on my DH then next day replaced it
old zephyr
and bloodsport is "meh"
naive panther
and hte others didn't come out till long after we finished the tier
yeah felt the same about that
didn't cost me much to lvl it though
modern brook
Bloodsport op :^(
naive panther
ewe
lol
what about new raid trinkets, do we have actual values or an idea of anything on those?
modern brook
I havent heard anything tho i imagine we'll probably be looking for similar stuff as this tier: ie Stat sticks and on use Stat steroids
cosmic cargo
you don't take double prot traits on engi hat
naive panther
well at least prot has some decent cooldowns they can line upw ith stat steroids
modern brook
to my knowledge defensive trinkets still suck 
cosmic cargo
the engi specific trait is godly
naive panther
yeah I would take the lightning one
cosmic cargo
yup
taking 2 spec traits there is wasting it
can you link the plate engi hat? its a nightmare finding it on mobile
naive panther
phone might not let you select warrior though
basically take DC, synaptic, ablative for surv, absorbatron for most things or cauterizer for necrotic? if it still works
modern brook
Cauterizer is nutso depending on its definition of bleed
physical dot is one of the hardest sources for us to mitigate
naive panther
I'm assuming swapping traits will be fine for encounters if they maintain the quicker decay on reforge costs like they have had in place for a while
modern brook
I havent been able to afford my repair bills since ~novemberish
modern brook
i think i have ~2k gold across 3 characters
modern brook
yeah but thats booooring
uneven mason
so is having broken gear.
uneven mason
swap slot, destroy old one, I got ya
modern brook
yeah
I'm unfortuantely back on my 320 shields though :/
386bags; 344 equipped 8^)
naive panther
also you can't take two warrior specific traits on the engineering goggles, there's blood sport or dc, then goes to engineer specific ring
modern brook
Sidebar: does gathering storm work with ravager?
naive panther
I have no way to make money this expansion, just buy tokens
modern brook
huh; it sure does
this opens up possibilties
DC + 2x BoM + 3x GS
see me necrotic week
signal plover
If you select ravager the prot discord hacks your wow and deletes your toon so
Proceed at your own risk
modern brook
You're implying my password is hackable
R4v4G3r1snt4M3M3
oops was trying to log into wow :^(
uneven mason
wellthen
cosmic cargo
i remember spec'ing ravager during legion when i didn't have prot leggies to use arms hat
i'm not even sure that was worth for damage, prob not
old zephyr
Even with 3* GS, I don't think speccing into ravager is worth it (for any purpose), you lose so much on AM
sand egret
counter-point: a) it's the almighty ravager and b) totally worth it for the fact that in order to make us consider Ravager it'd need some funky interaction with Arms.
modern brook
IDK Man
sand egret
(not that i'm considering it, but ol' Ravy's just trying to stay relevant)
modern brook
3x GS is alot of str
last mason
can you relog over and over to try and get the hidden appearance
sand egret
believe its 1per day
modern brook
Unless they changed it form legion it is 1 per day
uneven mason
you lose more damage from the loss of more avatars
and take more damage
from the loss of every other defensive CD
Also
ravager does 11% of its tooltip damage
👍
About the same as a Devastate
cosmic cargo
👉 🚪
uneven mason
No I'm saying you'd get more benefit wearing leather pants because they improve your slutmog than from taking ravager.
steady dragon
does anyone have a log query to see how many direct casts were done to the tanks
i tried making one but it includes smart heals and idk how to not have them be in there
modern brook
Are you trying to show your healers how bad they are?
cause smart heals could help with that
steady dragon
nah im trying to see how much attention im requiring
figured it out, my pin already covers it
its smart like me
cosmic cargo
you could look at EHRPS chart, if there's big spikes then probably a good amount of attention
nvm
how did you do it btw? @steady dragon
steady dragon
casts
done to target
fill in own name
&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24149819290.0.0.Warrior%7C148597371.0.0.Monk%24true%240
this is for me and my cotank monk
its based on name
can probably change it to be generic towards tanks?
idk
modern brook
so; how much attention do you require?
modern brook
🍎 to 🍍
wise mirage
weird question but what talents are good for wq?
stark sage
i dont think anyone bothers to optimize talents for WQs
aside from maybe going for max mobility optimizations
like taking bounding
old zephyr
But You take bounding 50% of the time already
Maybe (MAYBE) take rumbling earth instead of stormbolt but eh...
I'm not sure it is worth
sick sentinel
hey I take rumbling earth all the time
silk mortar
Less buttons =better
sick sentinel
m+ as well
old zephyr
I tend to run with people having a lot of AoE stuns, so If I do a 2nd SW in the pack one of the AoE is going to get wasted by the DR
also being able to interupt 4-5 casts in a row is AMAZING
stark sage
rip warbringer stun off the DR list
main vault
I take Arms for WQ
cosmic cargo
dragon's charge is the best shit
uneven mason
like watching a semi plow into a field of sheep
main vault
Do you mount on a big animal and plow?
uneven mason
Prot is big animal
main vault
3-5x the size of others
uneven mason
sounds like compensation
main vault
Seems like Prot is just copying, but a worse version
uneven mason
We don't require tools to do the job, sounds like we did it first
paladin had to hire help
cosmic cargo
the pala charge is slightly better for playing bowling since more control
main vault
Yeah its directional and every time I steed
cosmic cargo
but both are hilarious at annoying people
uneven mason
best dragon's charge is when the elemental shaman thunders me off and I charge back down, step left and knock him flying off
Dragon's charge at LM, OMNOMNOM
sick sentinel
I run HMC to test how much it does
was like 2% of my damage on a freehold 10 where I was boosting guildmates
cosmic cargo
what was HMC again?
uneven mason
heed my call
sick sentinel
my other choice is the one that gives crit
cosmic cargo
slightly worse at least in dps
sick sentinel
thing is, I am using block and knot
cosmic cargo
2% for a T2 is actually a lot
sick sentinel
so I have a metric fuckton of crit
sand egret
I used to run 3x HMC, and that shit was so fickle
sick sentinel
what does that even mean
cosmic cargo
^
sand egret
yes
uneven mason
🤔 🔫 procs when I'm at 98% doesn't proc again the whole fight
HMC can be like up in their shit
sand egret
or a 20k crit on a single mob with 2% hp
uneven mason
or just shit
sand egret
and as far as i saw it, i think it's proc rate went down as its stacked
after that I decided to stack elemental whirl to 3x
since my pieces also had that on each piece.
cosmic cargo
the proc rate is the same at 1 or 3
sand egret
well it feels like shite to me
cosmic cargo
still easily the best damage T2 trait by a mile
sand egret
well damage is not exactly what i'm in need of, tbh
and it's damage is super inconsistent
so that's why I shelved it. It's wonderful in sim-land, but in practice i'm over itl.
cosmic cargo
even in practice
ST it's only beaten by gutripper
so worst case scenario it's 2nd
best case scenario it's best by far
the only stat trait that comes close is OP
modern brook
gutripper sounds the edgiest tbh; that makes it BIS
sand egret
and i’d take OP over it anyday
cosmic cargo
that's fair since OP is defensive too
sand egret
OP is lovely
naive panther
I use triple heed on my dh, it isn't huge in m+ but something. In raid it actually is pretty decent on some fights. But run gutripper for ghuun
cosmic cargo
worst case scenario OP loses half it's value from being hit
which basically makes it comparable to whirl
sand egret
the icd on it makes it pretty consistent and on a single boss its great
sand egret
i have it on my BoM set
uneven mason
OP is pretty OP for taking thrash
naive panther
well here's to hoping the azerite changes make it so we have more available to us
main vault
Nice meme
modern brook
Too many 2letter acroynms
[adjective] [noun] are my [least/most] favorite [ability type]
naive panther
Not sure how impactful warrior azerites are, but for a veng dh they are pretty meaningless so half the battle is just getting mythic level pieces then stop worrying about the right traits cause they are almost all garbage
sand egret
warrior traits are all pretty solid, even the "worst" ones
modern brook
everything on VDH is meaningless
its half a sepc
made from the worst aspects of every other tank
Prot traits arent bad; but some feel bad
Like I get a bit slash faced when i get a CR piece
strong forum
Prot traits are amazing imo
sand egret
that's more of a product of there being "better" traits
therefore not getting that will always result in that
strong forum
3x BoM + 1x DC and 2x IF, now that's m+ dmg
sand egret
depends on the dungeon
tropic star
i figured some of the generic ones would be better for M+ dmg
modern brook
fair
tropic star
pure dmg
modern brook
theres only a few that are like 65%+ melee attacks though
sand egret
its really a st vs multi targget thing
modern brook
going off memory
tropic star
like the stack proc ones
modern brook
maybe?
tropic star
drustvaar for example is raw mastery or crit i forget
sand egret
crit
modern brook
IDK from prot stuff I honestly think the increase in ST damage during boss fights will greatly outpace IF damage in packs
tropic star
the raptor mastery one then
cosmic cargo
that one is crap
sand egret
is that you need the procs and to use them within the window to benefit from that damage increase
cosmic cargo
if you want damage traits
sand egret
vs IF is just always there
tropic star
ive run IF and looked at the spire dmg acorss whole M+ runs and its really negligible
cosmic cargo
also for ST stuff like rezan's is huge
modern brook
🤷 theres like a single time in rotation where you're not SS as soon as its lit up
tropic star
which is close to half the time
sand egret
avatar phase for starters
modern brook
if the draw back of BFI is i have to use my best button
sand egret
and it's proc reliant
tropic star
40%
sand egret
not saying its bad, i use 2 of em
cosmic cargo
for raw aoe damage you might skip a bunch of SS
sand egret
but it's definitely more relative to your situation
modern brook
Oh i know you're not saying its bad
I think you're crazy for saying IF is on the same field as it though
sand egret
IF will also scale with bigger pulls
modern brook
with respect to damage output
sand egret
i mean, the SS increase you need to look just at the delta
which is a lot harder to prase
parse*
tropic star
but the higher the key the more you kite and the less IF helps?
modern brook
lol kiting
modern brook
what are u a dk
sand egret
this BrM discord?
tropic star
i run with Frost mage and i kite on 15+ fortitfied weeks for sure
modern brook
"oh let me use my 90% slow and take 0 damage"
sand egret
also, it's a moot point. You're not using BFI when kiting either.
modern brook
I'm not being serious, for the record
RE: kiting
BFI ur def nuts for not taking over IF
sand egret
and you're letting the stacks fall off so arguably it's worse
tropic star
are there any raid traits that may look better then?
modern brook
right now or for season 2
sand egret
archive is solid. stats be stats