nerf UF by 50%, give revenge 25% more damage so it actually feels like it's worth using
#protection
main vault
you have too much faith in that shit company if you think they wont
rotund hound
Warrior dps has been great this whole time tho just survivability was scary at first
main vault
They didnt care when noone played it
main vault
Now when everyone is pointing it out
rotund hound
What’s brm?
open bluff
(coincidentally once a tank is fotm for an entire expac it usually takes them 5 years to be worth playing again so rip monks)
rotund hound
Lol
How’s that true
Cause warrior at stat of legion was great
Was shit tell the end
Was great
rotund hound
Monk was good while time while monk is still good
Now warrior is good again
Monknis sitll good
main vault
War was good in ToS the fuck you on about
rotund hound
Still*
main vault
Bear will be garbage all xpac
open bluff
monk got rekt in 7.2.5, drove a lot of long time brms to bdk
rotund hound
This whole xpac I agree
open bluff
"good" and "fotm" are different
main vault
War was good early EN and in ToS
sick sentinel
and Antorus
open bluff
"good" tanks are less likely to get touched
rotund hound
Lol
open bluff
case in point: paladins in cata, they became "good" in mop/wod after they were "fotm," were close to fotm early legion then tos happened 
rotund hound
Still doesn’t add up
open bluff
also bears in legion, they're garbo now
rotund hound
But to each there own
main vault
How does it not?
open bluff
warriors were "good"
main vault
The only raid they wernt was NH
sick sentinel
Nighthold was a hard time for warrs
open bluff
just not fotm
main vault
They were good the rest
sick sentinel
outside of that we were fine
main vault
Exorsus used on til KJ for World 2
open bluff
i'm talking fotm as in "omg you must have this tank or you suck"
main vault
But I guess they were shit and Exorsus didnt know what they were doing
rotund hound
I mean
open bluff
not "oh you can complete content with this tank but they're not the absolute best for it"
rotund hound
Using a pure physical dmg tank on that fight was a good idea
Not disagreeing with you
We’re they that strong on every fight? Nah
main vault
I feel like you didnt read
open bluff
exactly, and bear was better in legion than even prot warr for that
main vault
Since you said "that fight"
sick sentinel
Varimathras was a total cake cor warrs
main vault
Back to AP farming, this guy is trolling
rotund hound
I’m not trolling bro it’s my opinion
Like yours is yours
Don’t get all upset over it.
Vara was good for warriors cause they didn’t tank the boss and leaped our and charged in LOl
sick sentinel
lol
rotund hound
But warriors were great in abt
sick sentinel
noúe
rotund hound
Super strong
rotund hound
We used a warrior tank and blood dk for most of all progression and bear for 3rd tank
sick sentinel
swipe did nothing while it raped our bear
rotund hound
Bear was dead after they took the magic redirection ability out to be honest
Damn sucks the convo died down to only us lol
sick sentinel
Antorus was probably the most balanced for tanks
rotund hound
People should be more tankie in res life with there emotions and not let someone’s opinions bother them
Real*
sick sentinel
except Agrammar
rotund hound
Agg wasn’t to bad cause we pulled 4 add in at a time while most guilds did 2
So we didn’t run into the we need a double dk
round kayak
on g'huun, if you spell reflect the boil, do you still get the debuff so you can't reflect the next one?
rotund hound
No
You keep reflect up for full duration
Just run around inside the boils like a mad man
round kayak
i'm a dps main, might have to try prot just for the lols of this haha
so you can reflect every spawn?
round kayak
fucking mental
rotund hound
You’ll do more dmg spell reflecting then you will unless you rank 1 parse
My furry warrior does 17k in p3 and I beat him in growths damage
He’s gonna go prot this week and dump on the boss with me
On heroic me and max from limit did 4mil in spell reflect to the boss and it’s about half the dmg on heroic from mythic
marble cipher
All warriors should just go prot on that fight till they change it. Avatar + bc + tc spam on all the P1 stuff, and then just go mental in P3 with spell reflect 😜
rotund hound
Hahaha
round kayak
too bad i only found out about it now, when it's just 2 weeks left
rotund hound
Rosy I can send you a video
tired void
Any recommendations on a TW prot BiS list?
pearl sinew
Hey All, I was checking bloodmallet for racials for prot warrs. Does anyone know which race puts out most dps as prot warr?
steel mauve
Probably means ursols, but it was a dmg reduction, not redirection
main vault
^
rotund hound
Lol
pearl sinew
Anyone know what race has best dps output for Prot warrs? I can't find it on bloodmallet. It seems like Undead is performing well for fury and arms though
fierce ocean
LfD will give you the best results multi-target, but I don't know single-target.
vocal nimbus
The difference between races is so small that it doesn't really matter
pearl sinew
Sorry LfD? what racial is that?
vocal nimbus
lightforged draenei
main vault
Race doesnt matter for dps
inland mesa
Spell reflect for ghuun is just reflect it and then run around in them as they go off with it up, yes? Its the boils that spawn on the ground and go off after a certain time?
inland mesa
Is there something that tracks when they're about to hit or just feeling it out
inland mesa
The timer is when they start to spawn I've just always looked st them to get away, came into an 8 of 8 guild and didn't want to die slowing rekill haha
plush surge
oh well, offspec loot, its fate then
vocal nimbus
gimme
crystal night
Nice man
sick sentinel
Can you just jump out of the window real quick ? 😭
Why do we allways have to have half of our bis gear from last 2 bosses?
btw what do I need to pres in warcraftlogs to see the reflected damage on G'huun ? I'm dummy with that sire D:
nvm I got it... 891k with one reflect.. dayum
molten scaffold
So wait, I'm a little confused. You can just put SR up right before the exploding pizza boils go off and SR doesn't get consumed when one hits you?
shut summit
correct
molten scaffold
I need to find someone to replace me as a solo orb runner so that I can go prot, apparently, lol
sick sentinel
That's last phase, no orb running there
candid ledge
Is there any difference between prot spec and the other 2 in orb carrying on Ghuun?
sick sentinel
not really
oblique garnet
you take less damage
molten scaffold
Ah, so what you're telling me is I need to murder one of the other two tanks.
oblique garnet
and can use avatar to get out of roots if youre prot
molten scaffold
Free up that spot.
candid ledge
I lvled a war 2 weeks ago and tried carrying as prot but failed. Better to go HL first or after intercept?
oblique garnet
Depends entirely on the warlock gate
plush surge
feelsgood man, ghuun shield is nice mog for alts Pog
zinc mauve
@candid ledge warlock gate > heroic leap > intercept > intercept; should get you close enough every time
this is only with the left side orb though, ive never done the right side
open bluff
<@&257983573498265600> ^
stray wedge
$pb @shell elm spamming in multiple channels
turbid robinBOT
Done.
stray wedge
damn it sal
zinc mauve
thanks
lavish oracle
@molten scaffold You can solo orb run as prot
It's basically the same but you don't have to take a talent for it 😄
main vault
Got him
dim blaze
First time tanking a 10 I got Jes Howler 375 with socket. So that + blockades anything I should be targeting for other trinkets or good to go with those 2?
vocal nimbus
For M+ dps trinkets are preferable to blockades
In general any trinket with a decent ilvl is better than blockades
vocal nimbus
i would use that instead of blockades
dim blaze
👌
dim blaze
Puts one on 20s cd
vocal nimbus
Feelycraft here but I would still use both
olive lotus
So the survivability of blockades isn’t large enough to overtake doom fury dps burst?
vocal nimbus
I would say no but take my word with a grain of salt
imo dps trinkets are better than blockades
the only defensive trinket i would use is the mythrax one with a good ilvl
olive lotus
So the best choice if you are going to go dps wise is probably syringe and a good ilvl rezans eye?
vocal nimbus
Without working sims cant really tell which trinkets are top
And im no expert so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
olive lotus
pages expert
vocal nimbus
Maybe @shut summit can explain better
sick sentinel
What kind of question is that?
If you're worried about survivability take blockades
Otherwise doom fury is better
steel mauve
blockades is still one of our best survival trinkets, other trinkets start winning out at a much higher ilvl
theres never really a question of dps trinkets being better pursay, its more if you need surv trinkets, then take survival trinkets, if not then use dps trinkets
hollow thorn
Blockades isnt as good anymore, since it was changed to stam instead of armor
olive lotus
I guess I just need more exp on when I need survivability vs DPS. Depending on group make up and dps it could be a different option each run
steel mauve
blockades was never armor, and even with stam point for point its still our better survival trinket until you get to like 375+ trinkets
stone crag
blockades change 🤔
hollow thorn
im sure it was armor earlier in the xpac
steel mauve
no thats last expansion
stone crag
nope
steel mauve
it was only buffed with more stam per proc since it was extremely weak at the start of the expansion
dry bridge
Hey I'm switch to prot from blood what azerote should I go for and any pointers also is there a list of things I can spell reflect it's mostly for m+
candid path
#268491842637660160 channel
main vault
How come people like Mythrax trinket?
warm plinth
No idea. Maybe because Blizz finally made a defensive trinket with main stat?
main vault
Yeah but the effect is garbage
warm plinth
Yep.
Idk seen a few people get excited about it recently. I don't get what the hype is about.
A 2 min ICD absorb that should never trigger if you're playing properly
main vault
It’s not even that
The absorb is smaller than a mythic level phantasmal echo was
And at 40 instead of 50
It triggers on the hit you more than likely would want to mitigate
So it mitigates the actual threat fuck all
There is no reason to ever wear it in a raid
I just didn’t know if I was missing anything War specific
warm plinth
People do strange shit lol. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
main vault
But yeah I’ve seen it recommended quite a few times
So I didn’t know
For m+ it’s pretty good since you can pull around it
steel mauve
it was lower than the echo before they buffed the trinket
main vault
For raid I would literally wear anything else at similar or even lower ilvl
warm plinth
Not that I'm aware of. Given how our damage intake works, even if it was a sizable absorb I couldn't see it being used outside bleeding edge progress where you're undergeared or something. Even then you'd be putting yourself into super scary territory to even make use of it.
main vault
It still is lower
The buff didn’t put it above echo
An echo at like 250-260 is higher than it
Yeah but you’d want some like Bandages before you’d ever want that shit trinket
That you could control
steel mauve
its literally double that of echos
signal plover
It helped early in the tier when you could run into SB gaps
steel mauve
80k for a mythic mythrax trinket, 40k for mythic echo
main vault
Maybe
steel mauve
there is no maybe.... its in the journal
main vault
But even with gaps you are mitigating the smaller hits after the threatening hit
I’m not talking to you
vocal nimbus
Mythrax's is strong in m+ 👍
signal plover
I used it for mythic zek prog. And we were even super strong for zek but it gave a small buffer, especially if you had to like kite around during the Novas n shit
steel mauve
the trinket itself is decent, but its used at higher ilvls when you can work around it as well, with an 80k abosrb, but in raids i would go with dps trinkets any ways since at that high of an ilvl you dont need defensive trinkets
main vault
Would never use it in raid
signal plover
#shrug
main vault
Like I can see wanting a trinket with an absorb maybe sure
But one I can’t control that is the same strength as a 275 ilvl trinket but triggers 10% lower is no bueno
fringe basin
whats a decent ilvl to start tanking mythic+
warm plinth
You could probably start tanking +2s at 325-330 without a whole lot of issue. It'll probably be hard to find groups at that ilevel though. At this point in the season, it's easy to find higher geared people and you can easily get to 330 without even doing a dungeon, so if you want to actually be invited to some, you'd have better luck at 340-350
fringe basin
im ilvl 361 i think
steel mauve
could do +2's at like 300 ilvl without much issue, 361 is capable of mythic plus easily, our biggest issue has always been community perception, idk how its been after 8.1 but before it was hard to pug no matter the ilvl
main vault
Tbf with a War front or two, we, and weekly and WQ you can get 335 in a couple hours
361 you can do 10s if they let you
fringe basin
honestly i havnt done many dungeons at all this expansion because of community perception lol
main vault
Community Perception is gone
My War is like 369 now and I’ve had no issue pugging at all
daring patrol
how long has this ghuun growth reflect been known/used for roughly? anyone know
warm plinth
Yeah I agree with Nexii, it's super easy to get to a relatively decent ilevel to start doing keys. I'm at 340 on my DK and I have like 5 hours /played at 120 or something.
warm plinth
Yeah, there is a pretty hefty shortage of tanks these days. It's probably not that difficult to get into stuff, even if you're "undergeared"
random finch
I liked the trinket when a fight has movement so when healing is low and it keeps you up keeps people calm knowing your all good and @main vault But now im mostly using Crit trinkets stacking the parry for m+
dark lark
How easy will it be to get titan residuum next season? I have 325 residuum right now but some janky non-385 pieces that I'd like to upgrade. Is it worth buying upgrades now in preparation?
sick sentinel
So just a tip on a new bug I found doing KR. If you have a DH meta jump at the same time as u active the key for a KR M+, it will bug the door, causing no RP to happen and the door not opening. Lucky for my group I had an extra +15 KR
dark lark
@main vault im primarily an M+ player though, don't have the time for organized raids
main vault
Calling normal organized is a stretch
You can pug heroic week one
Also calling normal a raid is a stretch
dark lark
lol
dark lark
a more specific question is will i be getting more residuum per weekly chest
sick sentinel
The amount we get will be increased, so we won't be getting 80+, more likely around 100 if not 1k if u +15 a key
Price increase as does what we get
dark lark
300 seems like a drop in the bucket then
sick sentinel
Basically
dark lark
if im going to be getting exponentially more
dark lark
"* In the most recent PTR build, these prices have dropped dramatically, with item level 385 specific pieces requiring only 675 to purchase, down from 3,250. Whether that is due to a change in the overall currency economy or simply making Season 1 gear cheaper is unknown. In either case, you're likely better off to stockpile the currency in preparation of Season 2, but take these numbers as temporary - the point is that you'll be able to buy azerite pieces in patch 8.1!"
okay
main vault
If anything
I wouldn’t buy anything til th end of first lockout
Cause if you buy something now and get a drop from normal you’ll feel like a tard
drowsy relic
What’s the best race for prot in m+?
main vault
Shadow meld is the only thing in game that rivals Arcane Torrent
drowsy relic
Dark iron dwarves have decreased physical damage taken + racial to drop poisons and bleeds
main vault
Not enough to matter
drowsy relic
Gnomes have haste racial and 105 rage
main vault
For the tank that’s the best at physical dmg
outer dew
NE is strong for M+
drowsy relic
What’s the use of the NE racial for a tank tho?
main vault
Dropping necro
drowsy relic
NE tanks can do skips?
outer dew
Took awhile to get use to not having panda racial
jade socket
lfd is best for damage alliance side
main vault
Shadowmeld os amazing for skips
drowsy relic
Isn’t the meld only used on healers or dps to Rez?
drowsy relic
But aren’t the tanks the ones with aggro?
warm plinth
Shadowmeld is basically vanish; you can have the tank pull trash packs away, group runs past out of combat, tank shadowmelds. Easy skip with no death required.
main vault
Yes
But like stated
You pull
Everyone else runs by
You meld and drop
As keep moving
drowsy relic
Sounds abit iffy as a tank
main vault
I meant if you want the best
warm plinth
Works wonderfully. Used to do it all the time on my DH in Legion.
main vault
There is no better
uncut juniper
Hey Folks! Is there a comprehensive list of spells that are reflectable in m+ dungeons? Couldnt find one for bfa.
main vault
It’s literally the strat for high dungeons
warm plinth
Though it was even easier in Legion because I could do fear sigil+meld and not even have a slight risk of even taking damage lol
main vault
Like the mobs in front of 2nd boss in Atal
drowsy relic
But you can get anyone else to do it right ?
warm plinth
I wish we still had a glyph to make all mobs hit with IS cower in fear instead of fleeing. We could do fear skips like DH 😮
main vault
I mean
drowsy relic
Or just a rogur vanish
main vault
You asked what was best
uncut juniper
ah thx a lot @drowsy relic
warm plinth
Yeah but it's a lot harder for a non-tank to do it because you might actually have to (or accidentally) get hit during skips like that.
main vault
Whether you can use it right is on you
warm plinth
I guess you could still technically do that even without the glyph as long as all the mobs were fearable. You just wouldn't have long since it's only 8 seconds instead of the 20 or whatever it is for fear sigil now
And as long as you wouldn't accidentally fear them into other packs
drowsy relic
It’s a talent right ?
drowsy relic
But we lose stormbolt for it
warm plinth
But you have to give up reduced CD on shockwave to get it D:
drowsy relic
Ahh that too
main vault
Storm bolt ?
main vault
Lol
drowsy relic
Ravager + crit trinket = parry bleeds from berserkers
Ezclap
Stormbolt is pretty good though
warm plinth
Yeah it's not bad. Just depends on what you need.
lavish oracle
Yeah, it's a toss up between rumbling earth and stormbolt for me
warm plinth
If you have mistweaver and dh in your comp, you already have a lot of aoe stun
lavish oracle
I generally default to stormbolt, though
drowsy relic
Idk I’m a gnome rn and I’m not sure if I want to swap to dark iron dwarf or night elf to keep pushing
warm plinth
Night elf racial is pretty solid. You just have to play as a night elf, which is less than ideal 😂
drowsy relic
I just haven’t seen people use the racial as a tank for the skips
oblique garnet
@primal crypt prot dream is over im retiring 😦
drowsy relic
Most people play on horde so there aren’t many vods
warm plinth
Probably won't if you're not doing high keys, since it's not really a necessity
primal crypt
@oblique garnet why
oblique garnet
Having too much fun playing mongo dh dps
warm plinth
Havoc?
oblique garnet
Yea
drowsy relic
I just hit 2k it, but I feel like I’m holding my team back since I’m not a dk
I want to minmax further
warm plinth
It is stupid DPS lol, and such an easy rotation.
oblique garnet
Actually chill having utility and cds that can save people
oblique garnet
And not having to worry about spectral bolt
drowsy relic
Everyone has a dh in their group already tho
lavish oracle
Rallying Cry saves lives
warm plinth
Blade dance dodge is 👌 too
oblique garnet
^
warm plinth
Works on a surprising number of mechanics
drowsy relic
Atleast with rogue you can play triple outlaw and it’s still a somewhat legit comp
oblique garnet
And not having basically any responsibilities on pulls is fun
drowsy relic
Have you guys seen the new temple strat?
primal crypt
that's the best part
warm plinth
For sure. Go in, Eye Beam things, repeat
oblique garnet
All you have to do is cc abd interrupt
oblique garnet
Shawruss i wouldnt recommend it
warm plinth
Getting more fury for purging too 🤤
lavish oracle
You forgot Fel Barrage @warm plinth
drowsy relic
Where you clear the m0 and do the last boss first in the actual key, then clear all the trash and bosses backwards either the buff
oblique garnet
It an exploit and a big one
drowsy relic
Is it?
warm plinth
Fel Barrage on teeming 😍
oblique garnet
Yes
drowsy relic
Everyone on my server has done it
warm plinth
It's so much an exploit it's not even funny.
drowsy relic
Oce **
oblique garnet
Blizzard will either take the runs away or ban people who did it
drowsy relic
The top 5 tanks on oce have done it this week
lavish oracle
I doubt they'll ban anyone
drowsy relic
So I don’t know if they’ll get punished
warm plinth
People calling it a "strat" are in severe denial that they're cheating in a big way.
oblique garnet
Its an exploit
oblique garnet
The dungeon was designed in a way where you cant pass to other bosses without killing them first
drowsy relic
And you spawn the first boss instantly without trash
oblique garnet
Thats minor exploit
You dont end up with buff that makes 90% of the dungeon irrelevant
Like legit with the strat you could probably do 30 temple in time
shut summit
i don't really blame people who did it after nothing happened after freehold skips, i won't do it myself though
oblique garnet
^
shut summit
just one of those things where communication from blizzard on these types of things would be welcome
oblique garnet
Temple isnt that hard that its untimeable without it either
lavish oracle
I mean, neither was freehold
I kinda wanna give the bug a go in like a low-stakes key of some kind
like a 7 or 8 or something
oblique garnet
One of my guildies is doing it
dreamy sentinel
Hey dudes, what's the current stat weight for each secondary? Or do I socket strength?
foggy mason
I broke 1000 on my warrior today!
sick sentinel
Nice
sturdy sable
have 1 strength gem tho @dreamy sentinel
sturdy sable
really?
steel mauve
yes, we get more from haste than the 40 str
warm plinth
I always wanted to see the math on that. We preach haste gems and shit at the same time that we're saying we can't sim. I wish the math on it was somewhere just so we could say, "and here's why"
And we say to always go for ilevel for more stats, or for higher str.
Some things are common sense or easily explained. But just telling people stuff that is in a guide without knowing the why is uncomfortable to me.
plush surge
as prot higher ilvl is prioritized over stats? (within 15ilvl range difference)
steel mauve
For example, since you value Haste more than Armor per point, that is the reason you enchant your weapon with the 600 Haste enchant rather than the 600 Armor enchant. The same can be said for 40 Haste gems compared to 40 Strength gems.
15 ilvls on an armor piece will always be an upgrade
However, its main value comes from the Armor increase you get via Vanguard Icon Vanguard.
is the reason for haste over strength
plush surge
say 385 cloack with crit mastery vs 370 cloak with haste+mastery+socket
steel mauve
what ever gives you more stats will win
warm plinth
I understand the theory. What I don't understand is why.
How can we determine that (let's say defensively) haste gives more value than armor when we can't sim anything?
plush surge
more stats means primary+secondary overal?
steel mauve
armor+ str + stam + secondaries
warm plinth
Can't sim defensively anyway, so let's say you compare haste to strength. You're saying we use a haste gem instead of a str gem. Why?
"Haste is better than str", but why is it better?
And if it is better, why do we advise people to take the higher ilevel piece and not the higher haste piece
sick sentinel
Because we know how much haste contributes to vanguard per point compared to raw armor
steel mauve
anger management, more major cd's, lower shield block cd which is much better to have than just more armor, armor wont even make a dent in a lower shield block cd, you can see your rage gen with more haste and with less haste but more str and determine how much it helps with ignore pain usage with better rage gen, the more haste you have the better ItF gets so it also snowballs
main vault
I personally have one str gem
steel mauve
and more stats are better than just a better stat, str isnt the reason you take a higher ilvl piece of gear over more haste, no where close
more secondaries beats just more haste
final mist
Strength is part of the reason.
More stats > "better" stats.
Keep in mind that secondaries are all extremely close regardless.
main vault
Str is a stat too
final mist
So 15 ilevels nets you more total secondaries, plus Strength, Armor, and Stamina.
warm plinth
None of this is telling me WHY. You're telling me the stuff that's in the guide, but nothing is backing it up. How do you know that x outvalues y without math? There has to be math involved at some point or you're just feelycrafting.
steel mauve
i meant only reason
warm plinth
I'm not trying to be ornery or anything. I just was curious if we had the evidence behind the guide somewhere. I'm sure someone has it somewhere, or they couldn't have written the guide. I am just wondering if it's available somewhere.
plush surge
@final mist alright thx
steel mauve
the guide is meant to be simplistic for the avg player, so that the avg person can read it and understand the main points, the theorycrafters have done the math on it and thats why its been written and what we follow, but your avg player doesnt want to read a guide that overwhelms them, they just want an easy answer and told what to do with out thinking much about it
warm plinth
I doubt that; we have some pretty incredible theorycrafters in this discord, and I know at least a couple of them wouldn't tolerate a nonsensical guide.
steel mauve
the majority of your top rated players im pretty sure do all the math themselves
sick sentinel
It makes sense
warm plinth
I'm not saying that it should be in the guide. I just think the information should be available so that if we tell someone "use x over y", we can explain why.
sick sentinel
Abstraction != Nonsensical
warm plinth
Macro freaks out if someone gives a slightly off K value in Discord; he definitely wouldn't be okay with a guide that wasn't backed up by evidence.
I'm not a math guy in the sense that I could do it on my own (or I would), but I can read someone else's calculations and be like okay that makes sense.
But that information isn't really out there.
sick sentinel
Here
Yeah it's not an unreasonable request by any means
1 str = .6 armor
1 str + 1 armor = 1.6 armor
More str and more armor adds to parry
👀
And damage output
Haste = more shield block
Vers = less damage taken overall, more damage given
People understand what the stats do rofl
warm plinth
I'm not a moron. I understand all of that, although I'm not sure how armor affects parry.
sick sentinel
Thats not the question
I'm not done
But ok
Ask Marok
I don't care to explain now
Strength to parry, armor is just armor
warm plinth
No one asked you to explain it. I want the people who actually know what I'm asking for to explain it, or just provide the knowledge somewhere.
sick sentinel
I didn't say it right
Again
I wasn't done
Do you have the exact values
Thats what he wants
But do you know how often the people who tc prot actually speak?
Have you tried pming them?
oblique garnet
Marok is pretty active
warm plinth
No, because the question came into my head when I sent the first message, and I wanted to see if the math was out there already before I bother people.
oblique garnet
True
sick sentinel
Never sends his message :(
warm plinth
Idk, it's cool though. I just wanted to know.
Don't want to start a thing about it lol
sick sentinel
Just pm them
Or try and tc it yourself, that's also an option
I don't think its unreasonable at all, wanting to understand it in detail is good if you care to learn about it
allows you to min max even harder if you care for it
Nobody said it was
The leading opinion, though, is that your minmaxing in the big picture is a waste of time.
I think the main thing is that it mustve already been done right? The 'all stats are extremely close together' gets thrown around A LOT here
Would be awesome to see the math
PM them
Just fucking @fierce juniper omg
Holy shit
stone crag
🤔
warm plinth
Why are people taking this question so personally 😂
fierce juniper
What's the question
main vault
They wanna see math of stats
warm plinth
I just want to see the math behind some of the stuff in the guide, since I'm not a big enough mathhead to do it myself.
fierce juniper
here's my sheet on stat stuff
it's not 100% finished/up-to-date but it serves its purpose
sick sentinel
See? Easy
main vault
Lol
fierce juniper
be nice pls
main vault
I think people are scared of him
stone crag
a what
daring marlin
marok is a qt
warm plinth
I would have messaged him on my own. I just wanted to see if someone had it before I specifically bother someone. Just had some people take it personally that I was asking or something lol.
sick sentinel
My issue was no one doing anything
warm plinth
Whatever, anyway. Thanks Marok. I appreciate you hooking me up with this. It'll be fun to look through.
warm plinth
There's nothing quite like feeling like an ass when you realize the answer to your question was in the faq channel the whole time. RIP
And here I thought I was thorough about looking at those types of channels.
open bluff
hey @fierce juniper was that sheet updated for 8.1? the shield block CD seems slightly off
main vault
I mean
warm plinth
He said it wasn't quite finished/up-to-date, so I'm guessing not.
main vault
He said it wasn’t done...
fierce juniper
yeah haven't updated it for 8.1
but the changes weren't significant enough to alter any of the conclusions made by it
open bluff
yeah, i knew you said it wasn't done was just curious
nova rover
Hey guys, on the ghuun orb running, I see some warrior doing it solo
I just tried it sevral times, tauren, I always get stuck a few inches from the portal
any suggestion?
sick sentinel
Do u have a lock portal?
nova rover
I do have lock portals, I did leap, charge, charge
thorn torrent
What gems should i be buying as well as enchancts for weaponm
main vault
Guide is in the pins
thorn torrent
just follow icyveins?
main vault
Yes
astral crystal
My fucking god I hope they fix the ghuun spell reflect thing soon
astral crystal
Guilds going full meme talking about running double prot for no fucking reason other to exploit a bug on a farm boss
Just can’t understand why it’s so important
hot locust
Does make reclearing it much easier though so I enjoy that.
main vault
I wonder how many guilds have gotten a kill now because of it
hot locust
Probably not many
main vault
Or were on the fringe but now have a kill
hot locust
last phase is the easiest imo
astral crystal
It’s a crutch, im butthurt about it
main vault
In an xpac of this quality have to find fun however you can
Is it a crutch if it’s a farm kill?
They have obviously done it before
astral crystal
Now when three retards die to growth in p3 they can blame me for not killing it because I didn’t spell reflect :))))
main vault
So by definition can’t be a crutch
astral crystal
Our ghuun kills are pretty sloppy
Just wish blizzard would stop half adding this fucking game
sick sentinel
double prot is upwards of 8m damage in that last phase
thats pretty huge
its 2 extra dps basically lol
astral crystal
Assing *
It’s obviously a bug
And shouldn’t be the reason why prot is considered good on that fight
broken moon
whats the spell reflect cheese?
main vault
The blood boils bursting don’t count as a hit
But they reflect the dmg
So pop speed pot and run through them as the burst
astral crystal
Iirc right now the fastest logged ghuun kill on wcl is 7:44 or so
No prot warriors
Would like to see how much faster it could realistically be
quiet crane
Made an ally warr to play ally side see the other side of the fence
Them fucking dwarf racials man...
I don’t even wanna touch my horde warr now just from that extra CD that legit removes fucking anything
oblique garnet
@outer dew Limit shitting on na alliance LUL
main vault
I just moved the last of my toons I play off Sargeras
stuck oxide
@fierce juniper is someone working on a trinket tier list for the new raid
stone crag
kind of pointless to put together a list that will potentially change until the raid goes live
trust that it's being worked on
main vault
Should be pretty accepted that all raid trinkets are garbage anyways
warm plinth
But @sick sentinel, the Mythrax trinket
stone crag
most
simple vapor
How do The engineering traits compare with others? Guides dont include them at all
thorn torrent
is there any good profs i should be going for prot?
main vault
Alchemy cause why not
thorn torrent
thats what i was thinking for the flask duration
fierce juniper
Engi is good for the free health pot shield thingy
It doesn't share a cooldown with health pots/healthstones
thorn torrent
hmmm
fierce juniper
so it's basically just like a free health pot every 10 min
thorn torrent
thats the profs i have so i was just wonering
main vault
Yeah those are probably the only ones worth anything anymore for raiding
That are primaries at least
old zephyr
Yeah alch and engi.
You forgot the battleres consumable of engi.
Saved à lot of Keys, A LOT
hollow thorn
Engineering also has a combat CR
north oar
Any tips for tanking mythic fetid trash?
I usally do it on my dk gunna try it on me warrior tonight
north oar
Thrasg
ionic fern
I tanked Zul trash yesterday, was a good raid.
north oar
fuck thrash
sick sentinel
Save SB
That's pretty much it
Last stand when you don't have sb and don't use any sb charges up when last stand is up I believe
north oar
Thats more things then dk, for dk its literlly just press death strike in a 5 second window after it
Nothing else to it
For the first kill i had on it, i was literly playing solitare for the first 2 mins
haughty vault
Yo guys. I started tanking After 8.1 only in m+ as offspec, but Guild needs me as off-Tank on devourer myth. Witch traits should i use? DC and IF are the best option here? And what about trinket? I have all DPS trinket exept deck, at 370 and presume rezan and jes should Be the best, or rezan/Fury?
Ty for the help. And IF u have some recent pov video helps me a lot.
sick sentinel
1xDC is a must and after that it's: BFI > IF > Bloodsport > Revenge one > BoM
for raids ofc
crisp pecan
what stands for DC?
dire wyvern
deafening crash
crisp pecan
thank you
zinc mauve
@haughty vault Fetid is pretty, just make sure you time your blocks before the thrash hits, otherwise you risk getting conned by the boss deciding to cast a spell before it lands and you waste a SB cast. Use Cooldowns to help with gaps in mitigation since tanking a thrash without mitigation up will easily take off more than half your HP, probably more.
cant say too much about mythic fetid since my guild is too small for it and any other guild that would want me wants me as a dps so fug that
tulip pond
That's ISB yea but some people use HR to extend SB for 2 thrashes
sick sentinel
even unmitigated thrashes on mythic won't kill you
you can let your SB recharge while taking thrash to the face during Demo Shout + IP for safety
cosmic cargo
well demo shout isn't really unmitigated now is it :P
steady dragon
Was about to say, unmitigated for sure Chomped me up
hot locust
can and should are two very different things.
cosmic cargo
ofc
sick sentinel
Is there a good way to kite the atal dazar poison guard guys [the big ones with totem things]
Walk
xD
yep
but they keep being faster than me even if i spam colossal smash or whatever its called the slow thingy
summer kestrel
summer kestrel
they are very slow
summer kestrel
if you get space with a stun they are never going to reach you
hollow thorn
if you leap away then they shouldnt ever catch u
summer kestrel
still, why kite them
sick sentinel
The bleed debuff is also reapplied a few seconds before it ends, so u can time a leap/stun then as well
It's around the 4-5 second mark when the honor guards try to re apply it
Same thing with the bleed from KR, don't know the seconds, too busy trying to not die to ever look
It's best for dungeons like that to bring a boomy/ele for their pets to eat the first and hopefully second bleed
hollow thorn
the bleed only hurts if u pull 2x honor guards, which u basically never do, if you are, then ur path is bad
If there is only 1 honor guard it should die b4 it gets the 3rd cast of, so u shouldnt have a problem surviving
sick sentinel
Higher keys will see a 3rd cast
hollow thorn
Did a 19 atal, we didnt get a 3rd cast
sick sentinel
dire wyvern
yeh did atal 19 as well and never went above 1 stack iirc
sick sentinel
Not stacks, just the cast
dire wyvern
actually i tell a lie, had 2 stacks at one point
we did 3 honor guard packs this week
i took 5 debuffs, treant took 3 and our rogue took 1
hollow thorn
monkaS
zinc creek
I feel like prot DPS will get nerfed. I'm really worried
dire wyvern
yeh i am also expecting something, just hoping its not drastic
dire wyvern
thats a lot of stacks in general tho, either they are dying slow or you're killing a lot of honour guards
hollow thorn
the middle pack is really easy this week
next storm
currently working on learning prot for m+, what is a favourable stat setup?
hollow thorn
use highest ilvl and favor haste
hollow thorn
the infested just stands still
doesnt heal at all
u just dot it and kick the cast
hollow thorn
nope
dire wyvern
we did the normal route + the first 3 honor guards on right side
sick sentinel
next storm
Is there a favourable shield to farm from m+ or do I want one from the raid?
dire wyvern
+pack next to 7 +2nd pack on left side +2 guys top of 3rd boss stairs
steady slate
i like your pathing @hollow thorn but i'll never be able to use it. groups i'm in ALWAYS fat butt pull the middle group on gilded menagerie, and have never been able to figure out how to skip the pack in front of the second boss
dire wyvern
@steady slate we just kill that middle pack (the one added with teeming)
steady slate
yeah, i'm at the point now where i just use the ol' Marine motto... "hey diddle, diddle... straight up the middle"
hollow thorn
Circles are the pulls we do
sick sentinel
so 1 circle u pull the packs in the circle?
hollow thorn
yes
hollow thorn
cc infested in them to know ofc
steady slate
we're actually starting to get better with dealing with infested. i've just about beat it into my team's skulls to either cc the infested or kill it first and to save an aoe stun for the spawns
sick sentinel
good thing that people are starting to be better with dealing with infested
2 weeks before season ends
steady slate
what can i say? we're slow learners
we didn't start getting into 10s until a few weeks ago
valid knot
What specc do you all use for m+? do you swap something from raidspecc?
steady slate
true enough, but i like to assume people can if they're shown the right way often enough. it's like litter box training a kitten
valid knot
http://piclair.com/jq7q9 this is what i am running atm
steady slate
i use my normal raid spec, but include storm bolt
sick sentinel
and my god teaching people what 
is and how it works...
hollow thorn
i prefer bounding stride over crackling but it doesnt really matter
dire wyvern
depends on the dungeon, this week i would run rumbling earth over storm bolt
steady slate
on weeks where i REALLY don't want to pull more mobs such as necrotic + fortified, i'll get out of crackling
sick sentinel
crackling is not really good in WM overall
dire wyvern
have only pulled extra with crackling thunder once
and that was in shrine, halfway down the stairs next to the first boss platform
and aggro'd the boss
cuz of his massive hitbox
steady slate
hell, @sick sentinel I'm still learning what all spell reflect can do. hard for me to come down hard on my team for not knowing it either. i normally just tell them when to hold back interrupts or tell them i have the next and just reflect
floral tinsel
@valid knot It comes down to dongeon... I personally run bounding stride in most dungeons, however in kings rest I run Safeguard (Save people on third boss), and in Waycrest Manor I run Cracling Thunder (You don't have to kita as much in this dungeon, so the added AOE makes it much easier to keep aggro on adds during the Big Butcher boss and the last boss). I always use Storm bolt in the tier where its applicable. An extra stun is just more valuable than the alternatives.
sick sentinel
👏 whats 👏 a 👏 clap 👏 without 👏 some 👏 crack 👏 ? 👏
and then there are some bosses that are size of an Eifel Tower with hitbox of a bunny
steady slate
i did it in shrine and AD as well. it was brutal enough that i remembered
sick sentinel
there was a sheet with all reflectable stuff but I can't see it in pins anymore
dire wyvern
its in #268491842637660160
steady slate
i wonder if i could make a weak aura that would pop up when something reflect-able is cast
well, i'm off to work.
carmine ibex
M Ghuun, phase 1, is it possible to solo first orb on either side? The tendrils always have the same spawn location right? (without freedom, that is)
hollow thorn
its possible, but risky
carmine ibex
what's the risk, is the tendrils close?
hollow thorn
the risk is u getting rooted, which is basically a wipe
fading token
Just save avatar
Dps in p1 and 2 dont really matter
Hold avatar if your turn is close
last glen
Why not get freedom on the first orb? 😮 the pally can just start near you..
fading token
Like 90% of the time you wont get rooted
You have tons of time to wait or move around them
astral crystal
0% margin of error is better than 10%
we have our holy pally do freedoms on runners
including on me
last glen
Just have monks solo. Don’t really need more than a couple solos.
carmine ibex
I know I can use avatar or get a freedom Np, but what I am asking specifically is if the tendril pattern on 1st orb, which should be static, is totally prohibitive to warrior soloing without a freedom effect.
last glen
Or void elves
astral crystal
it's not totally prohibitive
carmine ibex
or if there is room to get by
astral crystal
you can get bad luck if you delay the first click/charge
carmine ibex
like I charge through the same spot(s) every time, it shouldn't be a matter of luck but timing
astral crystal
yes, it's timing
but since it's so precise i'd just say go with a freedom to eliminate the potential for bad timing altogether
sick sentinel
@carmine ibex its static, if your timing is the same each time it will never change
you can easily solo it
left side is easier than right aswell if you're running first
the overlap at the end on right side is yuck
carmine ibex
yes I can use avatar it's not a big deal, I was just curious if it was possible or not, because I want avatar for goonie dps if at all possible.
or I can get a bof
astral crystal
yeah i'd much rather pop avatar when the goonies are out in the transition
that's a feels good man
fading token
If you're orb 1 it will be up if you use it or not tbh
astral crystal
cant
carmine ibex
we're still trying to figure it out
fading token
Orb is dif for sure
astral crystal
debuff
fading token
I do orb 2
astral crystal
oooh
carmine ibex
I don't mean also, I mean otherwise
the guild is still figuring out p1 smoothly, and I'm running orb 2 on my dk at the moment, but I'm going to swap to warrior tonight
fading token
Atta boy
carmine ibex
I'm just a thrower on the dk since I'm tanking
but my warrior is just as geared and I want to get back to living my best woyer lyfe
goon seems the place to do it
fading token
Just remember to spell reflect when he casts orbs lol
fading token
So nice to just remove that shit
maiden portal
Does anyone know where i can see what is bis for prot in bfa?
crystal creek
There's no such thing as a BiS since it depends on what you're doing.
sick sentinel
BiS is a fathoms in every slot
crystal creek
Most will say Ilvl >
maiden portal
what about azerite traits?
crystal creek
one stack of Deafening is great.
M+ like bastion of might for the power tclaps, brace for impact, iron fortress are good defensively.
sick sentinel
M+ you want 2x 385 archive
That's kinda closest thing to bis
I run 1xDC 2x390 archive in m+
With the knot crit trinket from darkshore world boss at 390
Macro it to avatar and smash
crystal creek
Archive won't be on 400+ gear in 2 weeks though is it?
I haven't researched enough to see if it's just Uldir
sweet kettle
its just uldir
cold wren
BoM is better for m+
strong forum
Archive is the uldir specific trait, you won't see it other pieces
Same as laser matrix
willow lotus
3x BoM for m+
silk mortar
either 3 BoM or 2x BoM and one DC
sand egret
I ran my first M+ in like a week or so last night. Boy is this week free as shit it seems
halcyon orbit
dude i literally picked up prot for the first time this week and i was pulling like 10+ mobs in a 13
and taking 0 dmg
the difficulty disparity in each week is out of this world
sand egret
well coming off a break it was good not to be thrown into some hell week. Nice of them to throw in a Tyrannical with Teeming this time
halcyon orbit
agreed just rerolled warrior the last two weeks havent been so bad
been able to gear up pretty much exclusively in m+
cant wait for next season though im so done with ghuuns
sand egret
I only play M+ myself when I do play, so it's nice on that front in many respects. I like Infested, but I am glad to see something new come this way. As I've said in here before, I just hope the affix impacts runs in the opposite way this time around.
artificially slowing down runs, even for neat mechanics, can get tiresome
sand egret
it prob wont, not that I necessarily want that either
at least from the scraps of conjecture we can piece together thus far
I just want the pace to be faster and not slowed down, personally.
floral tinsel
I am trying to compare IF and BFI for raiding specificly... How realistic is it to keep 3 stacks up forever? And does it ever go above 3?)..... For some reason my older logs did not track BFI stacs, so I cannot find a good answer for this...... The ones from yesterday did, but a bunch of wipes on Zul as the Crusher tank is a really bad log to base anything off of: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AMYhXbRTm6pdLanB/#fight=39&type=auras&source=8&ability=278124
sand egret
anecdotally you sit between 2-3
2 is more normal, and outside of Avatar with good procs you can get a 3 stack up for a solid stint
floral tinsel
okay, but 3 is max right?
Cause I just love the super descriptive tooltip of "multiple applications of this effect may overlap"
sick sentinel
You can get more than 3 stacks.. rng is rng
floral tinsel
Also, I assume haveing multiple BFI lets you apply multiple stacks faster or what?
floral tinsel
oki.. thats good too
steel mauve
Chances arent added, just the effects of chances
tropic star
sor why is there not a prot warrior dps sim still? is our setup to difficult? or just no love from the people who make the apl
dapper sky
Someone from the community needs to step up and do it. Since no one has, we have no sims.
main vault
Is that the reason?
steel mauve
Theres 1 guy working on it but he has so much on his plate that he cant get to it, and since its not really extremely important, its on the backburner and will get done when he gets around to it
The coding just isnt done for it
uneven mason
Still working, they haven't fired me yet, no Prot sims sorry.
sick sentinel
Ooh you're doing it too?
uneven mason
I was poking at it
sick sentinel
I'm thinking of getting back into it
main vault
Ill fire you
sick sentinel
Lol
uneven mason
so no free time
sick sentinel
I'm unemployed
uneven mason
+++ best time to do Prot simc
sick sentinel
I have a bigger project to work on right now though
uneven mason
busy work for the unemployed
sick sentinel
Nah I have more important stuff in the works
uneven mason
since our sims are pretty much pointless 😄
but it'd be fun to post some hectic cleave logs
uneven mason
and show our big ball 👢 🍵 👏 DPS
crystal creek
Don't reveal the HAC to the world.
floral tinsel
I would love to see sims as well, but I also tottaly respect peoples time.. this sounds like a lot of work.
uneven mason
its just not important
sick sentinel
It's not a lot
uneven mason
even DPS wise our stats are all humping eachother like a warren of rabbits in spring
signal plover
Day 1. Prot sims get fixed.
Day 2. Blizz nerfs prot warr dps.
sick sentinel
Nobody maintains it and the legion maintainer wasn't very good
uneven mason
^^^
floral tinsel
There are certain times it would be really nice still... for instance if you get multiple, non-bis trinkets or Azerite powers in the inner rings and want to compare them based on DPS as that's all they do for instance
main vault
Id do it but going to class 10-2 two days a week and sleeping eats up my time
uneven mason
but if you want to know what todo with your DPS stats, its generally going to be Mastery >= haste > vers > crit
but they'll all swap around in general
I think what most folks wonder about is the traits for DPS
floral tinsel
Why is mastery that high? Is it the multiplicative scaling on Attack Power?
uneven mason
yeah
main vault
Same reason BoM is so high
sick sentinel
I'd do it
uneven mason
its pretty insane
sick sentinel
But I want money
uneven mason
the raw damage yo uget from mastery
floral tinsel
@sick sentinel whats your price? serious question 😛
uneven mason
I know he doesn't take burrito's like our other simc author
floral tinsel
sure, pm me 😃
sick sentinel
🤔
Depends on the project
I can make a patreon and you can pay what you'd like :p
astral crystal
in b4 months of delays
sick sentinel
I wouldn't really want to accept pay for simc maintenance however
uneven mason
People would expect time of me
sick sentinel
Simc runs off the sweat of tireless volunteers
uneven mason
got enough of that with wife kid and work
Or those strange folks who enjoy logic coding
sick sentinel
I like networking
Servers and stuff
My current project has to do with servers
Oh no, I need to write a protocol
I give up
uneven mason
I mean, there are stranger things
I got a pal who likes to convert win 3.11 software to run on Redhat
errant shuttle
are we still able to pop spell reflect and bulldoze our way through malignant growths?
dusk locust
sick sentinel
We should get a FoTM emote now
floral tinsel
dire wyvern
Temple runs are irrelevant atm anyway
crystal creek
🍨 fotm
floral tinsel
The guys is also stacking Mastery 😛
floral tinsel
yeah.. I saw that one too
standard haste stacking though
Looks like our stats are indeed really close togehter.. I have seen people with very high crit or verse on the top of those boards as well
worthy dagger
crit = parry
Parry = revenge
sick sentinel
I'd rather have free revenge proc AM then IP off gcd
worthy dagger
and who doesnt love seeing that 24k shield slam damage
sick sentinel
Fuck free revenge
quick lily
are prot tanks still considered one of the poorer tanking classes? i'm really enjoying playing mine right now
signal plover
Idk what wealth has to do with it...
quick lily
😛
quick lily
well, if we are going by wealth then i definitely fit that description lol
sand egret
but I kinda Ignore most of the economic game in WoW
quick lily
reason i ask is a few people ask me why im playing prot war
sand egret
my comparison my bear is vastly more wealthy
quick lily
m+ damage output seems really good though?
signal plover
Prot is strong in all content ATM