god tier wpvp
#protection
modern brook
cinder nova
peak rampart
So what are the good pvp races?
manic sierra
Goblin seems pretty good if you want to do a mix of PvE and PvP, right? 1% haste is solid for both and then the extra jump
manic sierra
I actually haven't played in forever myself; does the BE racial still give other resources to the other classes or does it really only give mana now?
Or am I misremembering and it never gave anything else? Thought it gave different stuff way back in the day
oblique garnet
Gives 15 rage
modern brook
best pvp race are generally the ones with 2nd trinket-esque effects
Orc and Human are strong options
DiD is really good
modern brook
Ultimately, racials have a very subtle effect on how you play - very few of them will do anything outstanding
So when they're provided the opportunity. to do something huge, those tend to shine
Orcs and human essentially let you take trinket + the stun reducing talent i cant remember for pvp
Which is much bigger than say 1% haste from goblins
modern brook
nah its an honor talent that reduces stuns by 20%
peak rampart
Oh
modern brook
similarly, goblins have a mobility racial; so its really good on low mobility classes like DK
oblique garnet
? Orc racial removes stuns?
modern brook
Orcs have a stun reducer
but it doesnt stack with that HT anymore
so you run trinket+ it and have 2 HT's basically
Hardiness i think its calls
keen galleon
How relevant are weapons for our damage?
hidden kindle
hmm is Vial of Animated Blood really that good in m+?
seems like everyone with more score than me uses it lel
modern brook
like 40% of our damage is thunderclap
which has like 85~% of its damage happen during avatar
Vial makes every ~2-3 avatars dirty af
outside of just damage, a fat str steroid can give us big IP shields
as well as being one of the few ways warrior has to actually increase its armor rating
the statistics are made up, the concept is on point
hidden kindle
guess I should restore myself one then
keen galleon
Basically warrior is all about burn windows. If you look at trinkets that are good for dps classes with strong CD windows, the same principles will apply.
For example the new trinket off mekkatorque is going to be utterly apeshit on us
keen galleon
The monkey one is better on other tanks qq
modern brook
I just want manki rage
hidden kindle
been rocking syringe 385 + rezans 385 w/ socket but I guess vial would be better than syringe perhaps
big loss of base str tho
keen galleon
I mean if you were gonna replace one of those it would be rezans
I'd be super hesitant to replace either tho
hidden kindle
im not really sure, saw most of the people above me on raider io playing vial
but not all I guess
also unclear whether they have mythic raid trinkets ofc
hidden kindle
lol wat
keen galleon
Nice save Bull :p
signal plover
Man right as I tabbed off too
modern brook
Vial would 100% replace syringe
signal plover
Banned
modern brook
Well vial would replace syringe at like
whole sapphire
i have a question why is on icy veins and wowhead as pot a strength pot recommended when in the stats prio armor is way ahead of strength ?
wouldn't have the armor pot not more value ?
modern brook
380 maybe 375
thats pushing it
Generally, activated trinkets are stronger than proc'd ones
since trinkets share a 30s cd you also generally dont want more than one
You'd be losing some Str to gain significantly more during your burst windows
yeah i convinced myself
Vial > syrnge
maybe 10 ilvls
signal plover
@whole sapphire you'll get armor from the strength pot as well due to vanguard
Not to mention the boost to IP and outgoing dmg
whole sapphire
okay thanks for clearing it up
signal plover
;)
hidden kindle
seems like only a 5 prot warr grp could be formed here
prob better in the other lel
modern brook
I could see 5 prot wars doing a +10 tbh
whole sapphire
armor is only physical i forgot about that xD
hidden kindle
a +10 sure but im looking more along the lines of a 20 ๐
hidden kindle
๐
cobalt trellis
360 weapon with versa/mast + avoidance or 365 weapon with crit mastery
whole sapphire
but str increase ip ? i thought only versil boost ip
vocal nimbus
Mastery too
whole sapphire
[(0 + Attack power * 3.5) * (1 + Versatility)] okay so versil boost ip more and yes mastery would indirect boost ip through AP
main vault
And STR
modern brook
we got that
daring marlin
yes
rustic zodiac
tulip pond
Maintanked fetid for the first time on my warrior alt and my god it was such a smooth cruise
sick sentinel
oh great, now I have to level up horde character to get the combat dropping toy... what a joy
warm plinth
What toy
sick sentinel
warm plinth
Why do you need that?
obtuse crane
No you won't. It'll get nerfed now that wowhead has an article about it.
sick sentinel
Dropping combat without loosing time in m+ ? that's huge
obtuse crane
Literally nelf on a stick
warm plinth
I mean, I suppose. You could use Precious Bloodthorn Loop instead, and only have a 5 minute cooldown, albeit with having to use a ring slot for it.
plain ice
the toy is far superior
plain ice
i'd be shocked if they didn't hotfix it
warm plinth
Then again, if you're making good use of it, the time saved from using the ring is far greater than the time lost by losing the stats of one ring, right?
sick sentinel
They may fix it for raid but idk about dungeons
Cause wasn't there a toy that could Rez in legion? Looked like a gate
warm plinth
Considering the other two things that did the same thing were fixed for raids, I am very surprised it wasn't locked from raids to begin with.
sick sentinel
Only fixed in bfa
warm plinth
The Salyan banner in MoP was fixed for raids, and so was the bloodthorn loop
Salyan banner also had the MoP restriction added right before Legion iirc.
sick sentinel
Yeah
warm plinth
Bloodthorn loop was also fixed for challenge modes
sick sentinel
U sure u didn't get it from noxxic
main vault
100%
plain ice
i'd recommend impending victory and best served cold as well
plain ice
if you're going for true meme spec
main vault
WoWPlus told me
plain ice
This is not a common spec, looking across logs and suggestions, however I find it to be our ultimate survivability spec in single target Boss Fights.
main vault
Tier 60 is also a bit controversial. While Bolster is also a great talent, the extra damage absorb from Never Surrender is very good.
plain ice
"no one uses this nor suggests it, but i think it's the best"
open bluff
why are we linking noxxic 
main vault
but for pure tanking, I found Devastator to be a higher rage generation tool,
main vault
He is a meme
plain ice
purposefully?
main vault
Oh no he is being super serious
plain ice
oh dear
main vault
enough that he pays for a site and puts info out there
lusty grotto
who tagged me
lusty grotto
oh it was bull
open bluff
and brm, but everyone also has to have a brm because stagger too stronk
main vault
I didnt look at them, but even with his shit specs BrM cant die
open bluff
but it's not like you can have a "wrong" brm build when stagger itself is so strong
lusty grotto
incoming quote of the day guys!
fickle geyser
Is ghuun trinket as shit for prot as its for dps specs?
fickle geyser
thats what i thought ๐ฆ happy owner of 395ilvl tendril
lusty grotto
yikes
vocal nimbus
It is decent for bdks
lusty grotto
i recommend you put it on the expulsom machine and put it on high
give a timer of roughly 2 hours
fickle geyser
keeping it for ilvl so i can trade other trinkets, still kinda bummed
main vault
dont have to keep it to trade
warm plinth
You don't have to keep the item to be able to trade lower ilevel trinkets.
fickle geyser
still dont trust
- looks good on tinder when looking for some pugs
even if i rarely do anything without guildies
modern brook
Do what i do and never delete anything
warm plinth
Tinder? Wut?
fickle geyser
group finder = tinder
lusty grotto
lol
fickle geyser
warm plinth
Keeping for bag ilevel is definitely a valid reason to hang on to it
fickle geyser
dunno if thats 389 or 390 on blizz ui
main vault
Yeah Im sure at 387 you care about bag ilvl
warm plinth
It's 390 on Blizz's UI. They round to the nearest 1
warm plinth
Reputations exist on WoW in 2019?
fickle geyser
only bad rep
main vault
the rep of shit spec prot does
main vault
yeh
warm plinth
Though Guardian's is deserved.
main vault
Ele still
fickle geyser
well sp still get shit on
warm plinth
I actually misunderstood the original comment tbh.
main vault
yeah but they get shit on while they shit on peoples DPS
warm plinth
I thought you meant Jannebot as a player had a bad reputation. I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize you meant prot's reputation.
modern brook
respectable tbh
warm plinth
You can't just claim to be toxic though. You have to provide examples.
sick sentinel
Man the more I read up on that toy the more I realize, its also a death prevention toy too
fickle geyser
then we can be unhappy and salty together
sick sentinel
You can't be targetted, so direct damage can't kill you(Dots can if on you), so if u didn't use it or whatever you can time it properly to prevent a death
I.E a boss mech that is ignored
HOLY SHIT
YOU CAN IGNORE THE BOSS MECH FROM THE 3RD BOSS IN UR
BIG BRAIN OVER HERE
fickle geyser
What toy
warm plinth
The toy that everyone is freaking out about. Something Escape Plan. Basically a 15 minute CD Feign Death.
potent anvil
rhan'ka's escape plan
lavish oracle
Think they're gonna fix it?
sick sentinel
Only if people are having fun with it
blazing pelican
skipping mechanics isn't fun i love to do mechanics and fight trash mobs
this toy is ruining my fun
lusty grotto
yes yes
crystal creek
What what do you SR the bloodbolt for.
oblique trail
I thought spell reflect was just a way to make your DPS interrupt? Like lighting a cigarette when the bus is late so that it shows up immediately.
plain ice
@oblique trail bruh.. so close to the truth
i can't tell you how many times i've typed in /say "me next" and someone kicks
when i have SR up
smh
oblique trail
dude but in discord and then i used my IRL intimidating shout on them
ill say on discord: please let me reflect it feels so good and i rarely get to
and all 3 dps burn their kick
oblique trail
^
plain ice
this literally happened in a +14 this weekend
so it's not like these people are completely bad/dumb either
zinc mauve
d-did blizzard really just give horde a shadowmeld toy
oblique trail
what?
oblique trail
oh so you can use it on your alli toons if you got it hordeside?
that's still a significant item
zinc mauve
since every alliance player has a 120 horde toon
pearl anvil
BiS traits for protection tank?
sick sentinel
my group is fine with spell reflecting
I say "let this through" and they do
on first boss in UR tho, they let both the add and the boss go through
@pearl anvil depends on what content you are doing
pearl anvil
M+
sick sentinel
1DC+ 2 BoM
granted, you are comparing the same ilvl pieces
you just go with ilvl otherwise
sick sentinel
not that good
if it is the highest ilvl you have, I guess you can use it
but only then
have you read the icy veins guide @pearl anvil ?
pearl anvil
nope, i'm just whipping up a quick prot set for my fury warr
my bags are full of shit
and i need a emergency prot set
and toss rest of useless pieces in bank
sick sentinel
most of your questions will be answered from the icyveins guide if you have like 10 mins or so
pearl anvil
ok, thanks
sick sentinel
if you have any further questions, ask here
pearl anvil
i'll take a look when i get a chance
sick sentinel
but basically, you want at least 1 deafening crash, and then BoM for m+ and BfI for raiding
keen galleon
Have we seen the 4th ring on dungeon azerite anywhere yet?
lusty grotto
it wont be available until after the raid comes out
primal crypt
Jan 22nd
dull coral
New to warrior, not sure how valuable stats are
380 crit>vers ring or 370 haste>vers?
nova gale
ilvl is king
dull coral
even on a piece with no strength/armour?
nova gale
Yep, atleast according to what ppl around here are saying
I am new too so I just follow whatever ppl say
ashen maple
who has updated guide on azerite pieces whats the best etc...
crystal night
damn bastion of might is ranked last on the azerite traits?
That seems weird
thought that was supposed to be one of our best new traits
nova gale
My guess it is ranked as defensive trait
cedar tide
speaking of stats, is there a soft cap for haste to where we should focus on other stats?
nova gale
No
I don't mind you asking stuff. But all of these questions are in the guide if you wanna read it. I'm happy to answer shit tho
cedar tide
I see alot of high mastery warriors for m+
that are high rank not just randoms
is why I ask
crystal night
Ive always ran haste mastery
im looking at icy veins now appearently people are suggesting we go haste verse now?>
nova gale
I'm 2.1k and I go full feelycraft
crystal night
oh so u just do shit based on how tanky you feel?
nova gale
I like vers in general cos it is the only stat that helps against magic dmg
which is what I feel is most dangerous
That's on both my monk and warrior
or well, haste helps aswell cos more IP
crystal night
Yeah that makes sense , just feels bad that ive been stacking haste and mastery this whole time ๐
nova gale
but you know what I mean
I don't have any BoM traits and I do some pretty neat dps aswell
lusty grotto
i could have sworn Scottie was here asking about the same things a few weeks ago
i might be confusing people
there is no "haste > verse" or "haste > mastery"
you go with ilvl
haste preferred
that's it
the rest of the secondaries are very close to each other in terms of what they bring for us, so officially there is no ranking between them
oblique garnet
Also sidenote fuck eudora
crystal night
Ah ok thanks for clearing that up
lusty grotto
whats that late
yikes i haven't logged on wow for like 5 days
thanks holidays
whats up with eudora
warm plinth
I literally played WoW all night on both Christmas and New Years. I think it's your priority list that's to blame here (because it's right).
oblique garnet
The los of powershot doesnt work and eudora ends up just killing people
lusty grotto
hmm
oblique garnet
Like we were on the left side right next to the platform where they start
Eudora jumps to the exact opposite corner does grapeshot
Fatman starts running and boss resets
lusty grotto
damn
oblique garnet
Didnt help that every god damn buff brew was crit and it dropped right on top of eudora when she did the grapeshot 8))
lusty grotto
oof
oblique garnet
You could tell which person was gonna die
Fucking hell i had such a good route for fh aswell
It would have been a 2 chest without those fuckups
warm plinth
Did you manage to time it?
oblique garnet
Nah
warm plinth
RIP
sick sentinel
idk
nova gale
Sure ๐
nova gale
littlewigs does that for you
nova gale
I just use LW
sick sentinel
I do use littlewigs
again, I'm not sure what the brew looks like or does
is it the one that damages you?
nova gale
the big one is the kegsmash
sick sentinel
as u usually do with swirlies
warm plinth
They give some pretty hefty buffs. 30% iirc
nova gale
small swirlies are good (most of the time)
lusty grotto
yeah you should always go for them
sick sentinel
I don't like small swirlies in shrine ๐ฆ
nova gale
also if you chain pull before boss is dead and stay in combat you keep getting the brews
warm plinth
I mean, 30% to a stat is a lot lol
sick sentinel
30% to a stat is nothing when you've finished every other boss and are at 100% enemy forces already
;p
nova gale
well fair enough ๐
sick sentinel
1 -> 3 -> 4 -> 2
sick sentinel
I did 1 3 2 4 yesterday
nova gale
How is UR on tyrannical nowadays?
oblique garnet
First boss is alot easier
nova gale
Our team have only UR keys basically
oblique garnet
2nd boss is kinda eh
nova gale
Teeming is pretty shit too cos you wont have enough interrupts to pull big i suppose
What about wm?
oblique garnet
Wm is free
Teeming aint too bad
Infested are joke
Only thing that can potentially wipe you is if you die to volcanic
Like legit i dont think you couldve wished for better infested rotation on wm
remote summit
agreed , cc them and pull whole room for fat claps
true plover
Is a second DC worth getting ever?
oblique garnet
Not really
Just extra damage
But if you want extra damage theres better alternatives
true plover
Incite the pack is the alternative so probably going for that then I guess
remote summit
do we know if azerite vendor will have extra ring with 8.1.5 aka wirth saving residuim now or nay?
merry cave
It will but the cost will be higher
I don't know if it's confirmed but I heard it's a couple thousand for a piece
oblique garnet
@true plover what are your options
@remote summit yes the vendor gear when raid comes will have extra ring traits
true plover
@oblique garnet I only have Incite the pack and DC
hushed cobalt
would a 380 (with leech) BIG RED BUTTON beat a 370 Rezans?
oblique garnet
no
hushed cobalt
even with the "deals more damage when hitting more targets" part?
hushed cobalt
ya
main vault
๐คฆ
oblique garnet
still dont think it will be better
hushed cobalt
also have a 380 bandaids from KR, but i havent needed that for awhile
lavish oracle
Did they patch out the toy skip already, lol
main vault
The new toy?
silk mortar
Which skip ya thinking about
sick sentinel
@oblique garnet I usually do 1-3 to save lust lol
and have it for 2nd boss
I don't go 1-3 to use lust on 3
""usually"" === i did it once
don't wanna put any misconceptions out there
lavish oracle
The new toy, yeah
sick sentinel
any of the skips @silk mortar
warm plinth
@lavish oracle I've seen a couple of people say that it was hotfixed already, but not sure.
ashen maple
whats better Callous Reprisal or Shadow of Elune?
sick sentinel
@remote summit when it comes to saving or not saving the resdium, spend it now, the amount you would save won't be enough when the new rinngs and price increase comes
I would also have to find it so im not 100% sure, but I do recall Ion in the last QA or lore in a post saying to spend what you have now because it won't matter in the long run when the dungeon and rings unlock
modern brook
Tips for Tol Dagor?
serene flicker
Does anyone know how much Haste we need to keep 100% uptime on shield block?
sick sentinel
Otherwise do stupid large pulls IF you are able to handle it
modern brook
how stupid large
sick sentinel
The third boss was basically nerfed so you can tank and run bombs with a healer
modern brook
like double pull everything
sick sentinel
Depends on how well you can handle 5+ adds(both neutral and hostile)
And how fast ur group and mow down adds
Also, interput howler when he does his run around
silk mortar
@sick sentinel Worked 10 minutes ago for me
sick sentinel
It reduces damage and it is no longer best to let him full cast, and since its tyyn, FOCUS THE SHIT OUT OF HIS BROTHER WHEN HE JUMPS SOMEONE
lavish oracle
Yeah, okay, toy was grayed out in the shrine I just ran
You can use it in 0 but not in plus
main vault
who dis
sick sentinel
is it u
main vault
who dis
sick sentinel
he's tanking this mother group rn
main vault
dead
sick sentinel
368 prot war
main vault
yeah
main vault
lol
sick sentinel
I didn't say a single thing about it
but they think I'm elitist
I can't link aotc
u just literally cant
sick sentinel
who's dead now
main vault
1/3
surreal stump
toy says you cant use in raid instance now..not sure about dungeons
lavish oracle
You can use it in M0, but not +
surreal stump
thanks wowhead
main vault
thats the one I mean
sick sentinel
i have 0 stacks of array btw
main vault
her me too!
I dont even have a piece on with it so
ha he is trying to recruit me now
sick sentinel
downgrade shield
sick sentinel
no
I know Riishi too
took a long time but finally was able to tank a +10 under timer
Nice
sick sentinel
dh is the second worst tank
prot is tied with 2nd best
not rly interested in your pug, sorry
main vault
Not double worst
sick sentinel
what is the best tank then if prot is 2nd?
merry cave
Would you really say dh is 2nd worst in raids ? I'd say it's equal last lol
None of its utility is very good in raids and it's squishy
sick sentinel
it's got chains
or an aoe silence
druids decidedly do not have those
vortex is kinda ghetto chains
main vault
Roar in BoD is really good
pine bloom
anyone else feel like they take a ton of damage as a prot warr compared to other tanks classes
torn thistle
If Shield Block isnt up, yeah!
astral crystal
you're doing it wrong if youre taking more damage than other classes
sick sentinel
Phew lad
+1 a 16 ToS
Got a 17 Siege out of it
And I made a friend from this resto druid
AND I ALSO DIDNT DIE ONCE
gj
balmy narwhal
hey guys how do you manage ur cds for Mythic zul
We are doing 5 stacks for the first one then swapping
thenn i go away to get bop
but I feel like at the end i am taking way too much damage even with SW up
oblique garnet
@modern brook Told ya
sick sentinel
i get shredded at like 3 stacks on heroic
astral crystal
wouldnt recommend 5 stacks @balmy narwhal
3-4 max
usually i call what marker i'm going to drop pool at and ask for either sac or guardian, bop if it's the first one
primal crypt
Thanks for coming @oblique garnet
I got randomly pulled into that fight tonight as a swing tank
had no idea wtf I was doing
oblique garnet
Not bad
primal crypt
they tell me to run the orbs the first time and I solo ran it by accident
oblique garnet
Lul
oblique garnet
Ye
primal crypt
Late came in and gave me solid tips
oblique garnet
Out here struggling to even get to p3
primal crypt
so that I wouldn't die as hard
you heard that part late?
where the GM pulled me in?
oblique garnet
The beginning
oblique garnet
Told ya
primal crypt
PogU
oblique garnet
I keep joking about rerolling into dps and i get spammed by the officers that you cant do that lmao
sick sentinel
how do you guys feel about this route
with a shroud
uhh
not the worm at th end
but the infested speaker guy after zancha
tbh
I could grab these
and then shroud the whole one
limber tulip
@sick sentinel ur missing free %
Top right
And plants before b2
Just have to be careful with what you chain never go over 2-3 lashes unless u have answers
strange horizon
Is survivability at high keys the main thing holding back prot wars from completing 20+ keys like DK/BRM?
I mean surely the higher aoe dps offsets the utility of DKs so itโs just survivability thatโs the main diff
foggy mason
What do you mean by mob control is the issue? What do DK's bring that we don't for controlling mobs?
potent anvil
prot warrs have no issue surviving high keys. plenty of prot warrs doing 19-20+ keys.
strange horizon
I meant on the same level as dks and monks
limber tulip
@sick sentinel I mean fly bois In top right of map
And dks have grips
Ez
Big slow
strange horizon
If we say itโs because DKs have grip, neither do BRMs
sick sentinel
but we aren't missing % is all I'm saying
potent anvil
DKs get slapped in high keys when it comes to surviving. so if the question is about survivability then warriors are technically tankier
oblique garnet
Warriors are perfectly capable of doing the same keys as dks and monks
limber tulip
@sick sentinel all Iโm saying is all u have are fixate mobs flying around top right, faster pull tbh
oblique garnet
They just dont bring the same utility as monk or dk
potent anvil
top 4 warrior tanks have completed 20s in time and herudra has done 21s in time as prot
limber tulip
Aka free %
strange horizon
I know Iโm just going by mythic plus completed runs on raiderio to compare the top tier
potent anvil
warrior tanks have really good survivability and top notch dmg, but brings none of the utility as the other top tier m+ tanks. you'll have to be either more creative on what and how you pull or you just bully the dungeon with damage (but still avoid pulls that are unnecessary)
potent anvil
not sure, im horde ๐คท so hopefully someone else can answer that
foggy mason
@oblique garnet Is the only utility grip and paralysis or am I missing other utility that they bring that we don't have?
oblique garnet
Ranged cr, 90% slow, rop
foggy mason
rop?
warm plinth
Ring of Peace
foggy mason
Gotcha
oblique garnet
Oh yeah and monks have detox
foggy mason
Detox is overpowered for monks.
If Dragons Roar was baseline, would that provide enough utility?
oblique garnet
The utility isnt really an issue if you build the composition around prot warrior for m+
final mist
Dragon Roar isn't really utility, or rather isn't really utility that matters.
The slow isn't that impactful at all.
astral crystal
Sorry guys but horde isnโt viable for pushing keys, you need to be alliance for shadowmeld
foggy mason
I believe that. I'm a baby tank, but I play 5 different tank classes and my wife heals with 4 different healers. We've noticed that some healer tank comps work better than others.
oblique garnet
Warrior works well with most heaรถers
potent anvil
Yeah, prot doesn't need slow for utility. Imo, the fact they can talent into a short CD aoe stun is pretty strong in itself.
foggy mason
So what do we need for utility?
potent anvil
Now if dps warriors had shockwave, then they would be a bit more viable as a melee dps but oh well ๐คท
oblique garnet
What we need for utility is boomkin
final mist
I would like to see utility geared towards protecting or enhancing the party in some ways, as a sort of "battlefield commander"-type character.
Say, banners.
warm plinth
Warriors used to have banners iirc didn't they? I seem to remember like a mocking banner that taunted shit or something like that.
oblique garnet
Nah Sal banners wouldnt be great they didnt work /s
final mist
Yes, we used to have banners.
I always bring them up when the utility convo happens because they'd be a good idea, IMO.
Mocking Banner, Demo Banner, etc.
potent anvil
Technically, you can talent into safeguard and have something extremely strong that brew or DK do not have. I just don't see many uses for it other than certain bosses, and its kinda meh on trash.
final mist
I'd like to perhaps see Mocking Banner return a little different, since other tanks have ways to mass interrupt and CC in positive ways, and we have two ways in that area, one of which can be hugely negative if used incorrectly (Intimidating Shout), whereas the others don't have much negative impact at all.
warm plinth
How did they work exactly? I was playing back then, but I didn't even glance in warrior's direction until last xpac.
final mist
Safeguard is pretty good, especially in higher keys.
There were a few banners that did different things - Mocking Banner was basically BRM's Dave statue, Demo Banner was Demo Shout for the whole group, Skull Banner was a group DPS CD.
potent anvil
For certain bosses, absolutely. On trash in general, a lot of stuff is avoidable and only good uses imo are against fixate mobs in which case can be stopped by shockwave/CC.
warm plinth
Ah okay, so you just dropped them with a reticle like the statue and they did their effect in a radius?
astral crystal
Dave statue D A V E
jolly trout
banners would be pretty dope as prot imo, but plz no gcd
final mist
Yeah, just like Ravager or Heroic Leap with the targeting reticle.
warm plinth
Gotcha. That does sound like it could be neat.
final mist
I wouldn't mind if Skull Banner didn't return (it might be too strong if tuned incorrectly), but I'd like to at least see Mocking Banner come back with the changes I mentioned above. Demo Banner too.
fierce juniper
I think stuff like that would be cool/useful, but as long as "mob displacement" type CC is as powerful as it is, and as long as we don't have it, we'll never be the "best" M+ tank.
tired cove
Someone find me all the bloodsport pieces i'll give you chocolate pie
molten scaffold
Bloodsport?
tired cove
yes
ionic fern
I remember someone once told me where to see the "Reflected" damage in logs but i can't find it anymore..can someone refresh my memory?:/
hot locust
Have to look under enemy damage taken, and then the spell you reflected.
ionic fern
Thanks.
junior igloo
@tired cove
ionic fern
Blood Bolts hitting for 207k.
tired cove
@junior igloo dude you're invited to my birethday party you can have marok invite
rare helm
Anyone done any testing with the engi goggles in m+? Seems like they might be decent for dr
sick sentinel
If the cauterize minor trait can remove Necrotic (I haven't tested it yet) then it's gonna be BiS on necrotic weeks since the goggles have DC trait
gaunt dawn
Banners would add flavour to prot for sure, or warriors as a whole
But it can easily lead into a cd arms race again if you go down that route
junior igloo
Is this just a preference of the banner look/animation?
Because we already have both offensive and defensive group-wide ability in Battle Shout and Rallying Cry.
ionic fern
Gimme a yell that pulls all enemies towards me and i'm happy.
Do the good old Scorpion "GET OVER HERE"
molten scaffold
Wouldn't mind a literal "BRING IT!" move.
ionic fern
They will do what they always do..Mess something decent up..let people complain for a while..then make it back to how it was before saying "There you go, we gave you something".
void sonnet
Something like "Thunderclap has a little chance to pull enemies few yards towards you." would be cool. But that would be maybe little bit OP.
junior igloo
An ability that's both stackable (2 warriors = 2 banners = (almost) twice the effect) and scales with the group size is extremely problematic to balance.
Either you end up with 10 warriors in a large size groups (such as raids) or warriors are non-viable in small groups like dungeons.
pulsar elbow
Is there a way to optimize threat? What i mean is, does taunt > shield slam > thunder clap generate more threat then taunt > thunder clap > shield slam. And which abilities should i aim to use after taunt for optimal threat use?
I feel that sometimes i can generate massive threat while on other occasions i simply don't
vocal nimbus
Taunt makes you generate 300% more threat for 3 seconds
Maybe sometimes you are missing those 3 sec
junior igloo
You generate increased threat for 3s after taunting, so yes, using hard hitting abilities right after works, the order doesn't matter though (assuming you get 1 of each in this scenario).
With a bit of haste you can get 3 abilities in if you use the first right after taunt.
void sonnet
I personally do Charge + Taunt > Shield Slam (now should have enough rage for SB) > TC > Avatar > TC > Demo Shout > TC ... etc
may not be the best but thats what I use
ionic fern
Can you throw while charging? Get that extra threat gen. ๐
pulsar elbow
you can
vocal nimbus
Just avatar while charging and begin with TC
sick sentinel
I have a "pull" macro, just Taunt, Heroic Throw and Charge macroed together
ionic fern
Ez, Heroic throw "Generates high threat"
Always wondered if that's a leftover tooltip or if it actually does that.
pulsar elbow
mm, that may be the problem. When I taunt off our other druid tank, I sometimes have issues keeping threat above his
while on pull i never have
hollow thorn
Maybe the bear druid does too much dmg
pulsar elbow
i dont have logs atm, but ill return when i do
ionic fern
The DPS difference has to be huge for you for it to be a problem.
pulsar elbow
he does indeed do arround 3k more dps as me
sick sentinel
strong
ripe crow
pls explan
stone crag
hollow thorn
Prot warrior is not best for M+
sick sentinel
not the best but not the worst
lavish oracle
Oh damn, mythic NA just got world first UR 22 with a prot warrior
Depends on the dungeon @hollow thorn
hollow thorn
Yes, thats why its not the best
sick sentinel
but but but... hurr durr prot warriors are trash ๐ฆ
hollow thorn
Its really good in some dungeons and bad in others
And it lacks the utility of a BrM or BDK
sick sentinel
is that UR updated on RIO ?
sick sentinel
oh I had a wrong thing on D:
hollow thorn
The best KR is also done with a prot warrior
sick sentinel
And I understand that... Shrine is super aids
strong forum
Prot is the best tank for UR
strong forum
Cuz of SR in 1st and victory rush on last boss
sick sentinel
UR, KR, WM are all #1 with prot warr
hollow thorn
Last boss just takes long
Its so easy
Doesnt WM have a lot of magic dmg with the witches tho?
vocal nimbus
There are few witches tho
hollow thorn
There is like a dozen, but i guess there is more guards and other mobs
vocal nimbus
I dont find the small witches dangerous
Only the non ccable ones
There are like 3-4 per run
sick sentinel
oh WM is #1 for untimed
gaunt dawn
Imagine thinking dk and monk have utility
hollow thorn
junior igloo
No idea about next season M+, but for raids, I'd personally rank it:
- Monk (probably still best with insane EHP)
- Warrior = Paladin = Druid (different niches for different situations, overall close)
- DK (lower EHP will make them much more susceptible to random deaths in between death strikes; could still see play on Grip fights)
- DH
One caveat is that I don't expect to see druids at the high end, because they are very directly competing with monks (high EHP, 100 % up-time on active mitigation, strong against constant physical damage) and not only are monks also good at the same things and arguably even stronger, but also all the top guilds already have geared up monks from Uldir.
That being said they are good in a vacuum as well as simple to play and "safe" on progression (more forgiving that warrior/paladin), so I can see them being decent at a slightly lower level od raiding where not everyone has 2x 390 monks ready to go ๐
warm plinth
inb4 BoD has a ton of movement needs so druid takes #1 because of roar again ๐
sick sentinel
inb4 there are 4 fights that will require bdk ๐
hollow thorn
Feral monkaS
sick sentinel
cough cough Aggramar cough
hollow thorn
Feral is a meme, whether its good or bad
sick sentinel
Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with the "Bring bdk or gtfo" bosses lately...
just give the damn mass grip to frost and unholy as it was in WoD...
gaunt dawn
Its be great if frost/unholy had it
And horn of winter too
They dont really have much of a place atm
sick sentinel
Do you (my fellow prot warriors) think prot is viable enough for all of battle for dazar'alor mythic? My guild is pretty casual (going for cutting edge before next tier). As far as i can gather we're top 3 in regards to dealing with physical dmg although pretty weak to magic dmg or high dmg over time:S My fellow guild officers want me to gear my dk as they seem to think it's second only to monk for raids and they want the mass grip :S I'm just not sure how strong dk's are raid wise, after the substantial nerf they got in 8.1?
dire wyvern
Outside of top raiding tanks are very close in comparison
dire wyvern
DKs have fallen down in their EHP so are worse for raiding but still fine
sick sentinel
well i'm not playing monk that's where i put my foot down
it's too mindnumbing to play
dire wyvern
in all honesty the only tank class i wouldnt play in raid is DH because they have no niche that another class cant fill
main vault
It was a joke
sick sentinel
^^
main vault
Any tank is more than fine
sick sentinel
alright
main vault
Including DH
dire wyvern
also Prot is very good for BoD and is a good FotM tank atm
especially jaina from what ive seen as her main tank ability is a physical attack
even tho its a frost bolt ๐
main vault
DK is probably tier 3 if you had to rank
sick sentinel
after monk and paladin right?
dire wyvern
yeh its like t1 = monk, t2 = mish mash of the rest, t3 = DH
main vault
And War and Bear
sick sentinel
prot just feels so much better to play after the changes
dire wyvern
yeh
sick sentinel
than my dk :S
dire wyvern
Ive moved to Warr for the moment in m+ from DK
more damage and my disc healer finds it easier
and its way more fun
sick sentinel
yeah
fuck it, i'll just gear the dk a bit on the side in case it's needed for an add mechanic or a super high magic dmg ability but stick with the war
for now
dire wyvern
If i didnt have a good set up going into a pack as DK with boneshield stacks or a CD or RP then I felt like paper
with warr that is no trouble
only thing i feel is lacking is ofc the grips but its not huge
sick sentinel
yeah
gaunt dawn
DK is dumpster for raiding
That spot was pretty well secured with the latest changes
They excel at magic damage and mass grip
Of which neither are overly present
gaunt dawn
Yeah, you kinda donโt want that on prog
main vault
Itโs a bad combo
gaunt dawn
DK is just over-represented in the mythic raiding scene due to m+
If m+ wasnt a thing in Legion you wouldnโt see many in raids
gaunt dawn
Most of the better tank players will play whats best
Which next tier is monk/paladin/warrior
civic gulch
As a BDk main i would also add that it's pretty easy to have a significant dps as bdk without loosing much survavibility. Monks are tankier but so much lower in terms of dps
gaunt dawn
This is the same as it is for Uldir
main vault
Tank DPS isnโt as important for prog either though
At least not at a level where the rankings actually matter
gaunt dawn
Its important for a small selection of fights
Not to the point where you would change class for it
Dropping a healer is more raid dps
main vault
Is it though? Alot of them run full turtle cause their raid is stacked with 99%+ DPS
Im waiting for Sco to play War on prog with Never Surrender
dire wyvern
if you need dps you just bring an extra disc priest 4Head
main vault
And idk if we can count War as FotM when they are still larely underrepresented
grave kindle
hi there, I rolled from DH to warr, started as furry (sitting at 363 with shitty weapons) and thinking about trying prot for some M+s, is there rly big gear difference ?
I mean .. farming completely new eq seems like a pain to me
grave kindle
๐ค so basicly grab some wooden plate shield and some wooden 1H stick, reroll azerite traits and jump into dungeons
ok ok
I used to tank with DK in legion and it was childs play
gaunt dawn
If said wooden stuff is high ilvl, yes
grave kindle
so I kinda look forward how prot warr will be
gaunt dawn
Thats how you gear everything now
grave kindle
lul
gaunt dawn
Nop
hollow thorn
Haste is best for Prot, but u dont drop ilvl for it
grave kindle
ok ok
gaunt dawn
You have preferred secondaries, but armor/stam is way more impactful
gaunt belfry
I was playing around with Prot yesterday and I am sittting around 31% haste unbuffed. I felt like defensive spells cost a lot of rage and I was rage starved the whole time. Is that normal? I felt tanky still but felt like there wasnโt a plethora of things for me to do other than soak devastate and thunder clap on CD
Spam debastate*
Devastate damn thumbs this morning *
main vault
I havenโt felt rage starved when planned well
Though since you can spend it more freely
Have to put thought into what you are spending it on
Canโt just freely IP/Revenge
junior igloo
It's not that armor is that impactful, defensively secondary stats are better than armor or strength, but
- higher item level has more strength, armor, stamina and more secondary stats
- having "better" secondary stats has little value when all secondary stats are almost equally good as is the case for a prot warrior
main vault
Are there any tanks anymore where that isnโt true?
grave kindle
DHs I think
main vault
Pretty sure ilvl is still king there
I know Haste is good but not amazing
Maybe jewelry idk
queen owl
it "feels" better
main vault
Right
astral crystal
@gaunt belfry were you spamming ip?
junior igloo
Well for a paladin a mastery/haste piece is a lot better than a crit heavy item.
Whether I'd sacrifice item level for it is hard to say, but the stats are not really close.
For a warrior, I literally don't know which stats are better, we did a lot of math and we just don't know, it's that close
astral crystal
Very rarely youโll be in situations where youโre actually rage starved
Unless your constantly dumping into IP and revenge
Youre*
gaunt belfry
No I rarely got the opportunity to use it because I was trying to keep shield block up
Iโll try tanking some dungeons today and see what itโs like. I was literally just playing open world dicking around with it so no real experience. I was just curious what your thoughts were on it
queen owl
dont overspam IP. yo can IP if IP has 30% strength left and you'll get 130% IP
astral crystal
Youโre running Bolster, correct?
gaunt belfry
Yes
grave kindle
btw I ran few m+s yesterday with my friend, who play prott, his dmg was disturbing .. is that normal ?
queen owl
yes
grave kindle
woah
queen owl
prot war = dps
gaunt belfry
Prot damage is super sexy
queen owl
i was gladiator before it was cool, all of wod
astral crystal
Not sure what to say without some logs, but in general, especially in dungeons, prot has some excess rage gen
gaunt belfry
Whatโs making prot damage so good right now? Is it a trait thing?
grave kindle
that's a lot of dmg
queen owl
avatar + deafening crash + anger management + whatever that talent is that increases TC damage during avatar + demo shout talent + whatever else
it all synergizes
grave kindle
all I just see in recount is Thunder Clap
queen owl
no, dont be like that plz
because it is thnuder clap
you talent + trait to buff thunder clap
grave kindle
damn, I should've rolled tauren then
queen owl
thats it
grave kindle
Kappa
main vault
The amount of pulls I have at 30k+ is obscene
gaunt belfry
Well mines only average, but itโs good looking
gaunt dawn
The value of str/agi is negligible compared to preferred secondary defensivelu, and those are negligible compared to armor, which is further punted down compared to stam
@junior igloo
queen owl
but str = armor????
gaunt dawn
Its super weird when you math out defensives
Yeah, but you wouldnt take a socket over ilvl
Which is the tradeoff
A socket would be what 4 armor?
But 5ilvl would be 18+str diff?
The str gain isnt the primary reason for wanting ilvl
hollow thorn
What is a socket worth on rings for tanks?
gaunt dawn
Youโre dealing with pure secondaries there
So the value of the socket is higher as theres no str/armor
hollow thorn
I figured
junior igloo
Armor is not better than secondaries, at least for a warrior
gaunt dawn
The stam gain from ring ilvl is low due to budgets on the slot
junior igloo
Stamina (if EHP matters) > secondaries > armor ~= strength.
junior igloo
385 ring = 312 stamina and 431 secondaries
390 ring = 329 stamina and 440 secondaries
So 5 ilvl is 17 stamina and 9 secondaries vs. socket 40 secondaries.
The socket wins in most cases.
10 ilvl is better though (as long as the stamina matters for EHP).
rich zinc
I love this discord because I just joined and had 1 question and then theres a spreadsheet that shows every mechanic in BfA and if its magic damage or physical and if its blockable/reflectable
:staHeart:
Oh noes
Emotes not allowed :(
So if a boss has magic damage attacks, what's the best way to deal with it? My warrior tank in a 15 ML got chunked so hard on Rixxa Fluxflame
hollow thorn
give us global emotes
prisma viper
Question: If you etner Waycrest Manor on normal Mythic, can you check what doors are open, then go back and start M+, and the doors will be the same? Or is it decided when you enter stone?
potent anvil
Either right doors kinda suck. Bottom right isnt too bad on non fortified. Top right, some groups invis pot/slowfall since its a bit slow just killing the group of 3 while waiting for 1 or 2 witches to spawn.
astral crystal
@rich zinc demo shout/last stand/shield wall/spell reflect/externals
as if 8.1 you can block her autos
and you can spell reflect every other debuff
potent anvil
She doesnt do physical ranged autos. Its all fire damage. Youll get slapped either way. Alternate staying close to her for chemical burn whenever you have spell reflect.
rich zinc
So you have to rotate all your huge cds because your baseline mitigation wont do enough?
I assume you just dump all rage on ignore pain for as much help as it will give you
primal crypt
Chemical burn is proximity based??
hollow thorn
Bottom right has double infested this week, got top right on 16 wasnt that bad
potent anvil
Chemical burn hits the 2 nearest to her.
So you alternate someone with a cd to eat it and the other gets dispelled anyway.
hollow thorn
Can be Pre AMSโd or cloaked
potent anvil
Spell reflect every other.
final mist
As a Prot Warrior, it's good habit to be rotating through your externals anyways (even on trash), because that's the most helpful way to use them. The cooldowns are really low with Anger Management, so there's no reason to not use them essentially on cooldown, more or less. There's some nuance to this obviously (a notable example being Last Stand, because of Bolster), but generally you don't want to hold your cooldowns for long.
astral crystal
@rich zinc you dont dump them all immediately obviously, you cycle them
final mist
Even on bosses.
potent anvil
Bottom right with two infested doesnt seem too bad. Considering its tyran.
rich zinc
Yeah I know
final mist
Nah, this week is fairly easy in terms of key affixes.
astral crystal
that is your baseline mitigation anyway, prot doesn't necessarily have MAJOR major CDs save for maybe SW, but yeah like sal said, anger management will get all your longer CD abilities off CD very quickly
rich zinc
I see thank you.
rich zinc
My knowledge of prot is like 30 minutes of messing around on my 110 warrior, reading the icy veins guide, and healing many prot warriors since I'm a healer.
hollow thorn
Every dungeon is easy this week
rich zinc
So I dont know much
potent anvil
Yeah its all fire dmg lol. Even last boss too, but you can spell reflect last boss's attacks.
ionic fern
Holy
Shit
I did not know that.
Well, i'm pretty sure i knew that when i checked the Blockable sheet..but forgot about it.
๐
potent anvil
KR and Temple, even Siege on tyran are the harder dungeons. KR more so because of teeming but only at the beginning and start of bridge trash.
hollow thorn
Did a 16 KR yesterday, was pretty easy, teeming was no problem
Finished with 4 min left
astral crystal
you did it fam
hollow thorn
The hard part is the healing intensive bosses
potent anvil
TD is still the easiest dungeon. Groups have +2 19s this week.
dire wyvern
Yeh did TD 19 last night, fucked it royally and still timed
hollow thorn
The bosses are still no joke
dire wyvern
So in ML last 2 bosses dont use shield block at all? just dump into IP?
hollow thorn
Its also still buggy
potent anvil
The only boss on tyran thats still iffy is last boss, but after the nerfs isnt too bad. Bobby howlis can still be kicked without breaking his shield. Im sure thats still unintentional.
You use SB for dps.
rich zinc
The tank I healed earlier couldn't use SB because he was just dying if he dumped rage into that
You literally just kick
potent anvil
Yeah just interrupt. Unless it was hotfixed last night after I ran one, it should still be interruptible.
rich zinc
Its been like that since day 1 ;w; I didnt even know there was a shield mechanic until a few days ago
hollow thorn
That dungeons is just bugs
dire wyvern
Use shield block for dps? am i missing something
potent anvil
Shield block increases damage of shield slam.
dire wyvern
isnt that only with heavy repercussions?
hollow thorn
2 ppl died behind pillar in a 17 yesterday took us 3 more min to kill boss, still timed
dire wyvern
oh no nvm
potent anvil
I imagine this late, even 18s are doable because of gear alone. This week moreso because infest pattern hardly exists in the large pulls.
hollow thorn
Almost timed 18 ML, had big fuck up on 2nd boss, otherwise we would have made it
The amount of trash u need is absurd tho
dire wyvern
my healer is switching to night elf for that juicy shadowmeld
hollow thorn
Do u know anout the pot?
Well i guess u cant get it as alliance
Toy that drops combat
hollow thorn
Damn
dire wyvern
Sarila: It's already hotfixed though